and you save reflect for the orb so it does nothing, doesn't move you...and you get to reposition cleanly
#protection
fringe marten
zenith monolith
so might be safer to get a cooldown / external rotation for them to be safe
fringe marten
If you don't have a personal (shield wall, last stand...a potion, warlock cookie..something) call for an external BEFORE the spread.
fringe marten
it's just the little window where they're moving, waiting for the orb, soaking their own orb (if they do) and going back into miasma/essence sap management.
gaunt dawn
nobody should soak their own 👀 apart from tanks
sweet summit
You guys soak orbs not on tanks?
gaunt dawn
sounds like a dps loss
zenith monolith
clear the area
gaunt dawn
and raid throughput loss
zenith monolith
oh you meant dps
fringe marten
Depends on the class; very few people will..but occassionally when folks have their personals/immunes..whatever they'll just eat it.
gaunt dawn
after each expunge
native coyote
yes, on the way out on consume I generally soak a few to clear up the area
undone jacinth
clearing as many orbs as possible is always good
gaunt dawn
maybe you guys are talking about heroic, idk
fringe marten
on the consume 'run' to the healing stack I'll always see our pallies or something eating them...and my cotank is a bear and he'll usually clean up like 1 or so randomly while I'm the ontank.
untold hawk
Hello,
Which legendary is better for all content (raid AND MM+) ? The wall or Thunderlord?
zenith monolith
tbh if people play right, only tanks might need to soak the occasional one (and their own)
The Wall is generally considered better overall
fringe marten
honestly with just the way the fight works most of the orbs are spread off to the sides and the 'run' lane is fairly clean most of the time; the orbs are not a 'big' ussie.
issue~
gaunt dawn
you clear traps on xymox
cos theyre in your way
orbs are intentionally out of the way
you also clear traps as prot warrior if theyre not near the raid
undone jacinth
clearing orbs is always good
fringe marten
We got sun king pretty solidified tonight; tell you what though...DPS are mongo as fuck when you're trying to cleanly move and control shade; and the direction of the phoenix's...like..HOW do they manage to get fire EVERYWHERE?!?!
undone jacinth
all it does is give you more room
gaunt dawn
if its not, its unnecessary damage taken
fringe marten
yeah, we clear them I'm just saying the orbs aren't a big issue.
a few players with the tools to clean them up, just does it.
untold hawk
tbh if people play right, only tanks might need to soak the occasional one (and ...
Thanks
undone jacinth
yea
gaunt dawn
immunes tho shouldnt be wasted on that
undone jacinth
it’s not a waste
fringe marten
and it's literally just that..a few orbs in the 'run' lane to the heal stack.
undone jacinth
it’s what they should be used for
zenith monolith
whats the argument for using Anger management over Bolster ? When do you use which btw ?
fringe marten
The orbs aren't even part of why a guild isn't killing hungering mythic; it's 100% managing essence sap.
fringe marten
Honestly I run angry mans on..? every fight so far.
Sludge I'd use bolster or Heavy rep.
I don't understand why people think heavy rep is bad, it's very good for that fight.
zenith monolith
and M+ ?
zenith monolith
14+ keys I am talking about
fringe marten
again..only 1 option lol.
zenith monolith
bolster ?
fringe marten
yarp
zenith monolith
kk
fringe marten
You just have to because without block up we're just a sack of dead shit.
zenith monolith
yeah lol, i feel that
fringe marten
But because in raids there's a lot of healing around you, and the mob is..just 1 big dude punching you, and not 10 really nasty dudes punching you really fast; you can get away with running Angerman on most stuff because it helps bring back shield wall fast enough that you end up having a big defensive cd for the windows you actually want it/need it.
Between the conduit, the legendary, and AM..it's pretty spicy how quick we can bring back up AM with a solid amount of haste (running ITF)
bring back up shield wall~ I meant.
lol
zenith monolith
u use sw conduit for dungs ? or brutal vit ?
strong forum
SW and Unnerving
fringe marten
oh yeah, the brutal vit conduit is not good in M+ IMO. The small bit of ignore pain you cast is insta deleted.
strong forum
Brutal vit is only a pick if its your 3rd endurance
zenith monolith
yeah followed a guide initially and never looked back to check. looks pretty weak
gaunt dawn
Does the guide still say that?
fringe marten
Yeah, unnerving is way more useful. Honestly..even as bad as it is; in M+ I think the ? fueled by violence is actually better.
zenith monolith
so replace brutal with wall ?
zenith monolith
Does the guide still say that?
Icy Veins seems to yeah
neat dirge
@strong forum venthyr as prot? Honest thoughts
gaunt dawn
it says it as third option
fringe marten
I think you'd actually get more healing/value from fueld by violence than brutal vit in keys. Your IP just gets insta deleted you aren't going to get too much opportunity to add to it with some damage.
gaunt dawn
fringe marten
Right now though; I'm using show of force, stalwart guardian, piercing verdict, disturb the peace.
Since we have the luxury of actually using a finesse slot, I am gonna run this week using disturb the peace. I'm liking it so far.
and Show of force simply for the sake of threat.
gaunt dawn
But just as a reminder, if there is anything wrong with any of the published guides, all the guide writers should be within the class discords. Ping em.
@ionic fern does IV warrior for example
proud of you lad, keep up the good work
strong forum
<@192743144276623360> venthyr as prot? Honest thoughts
Good dps in raid, terrible everywhere else
fringe marten
Unnerving focus is really nice; but ? in reality I see more value in doing a bit more damage IE threat earlier in a pull/in a permanent fashion..than being able to cast more ip/revenge during last stand.
neat dirge
Is it better then kyrian in raid No
zenith monolith
@ionic fern is great and always very helpful too
neat dirge
Nom*
sweet summit
On some bosses yeah @neat dirge
fringe marten
Nom it is, I haven't 'lost' unnerving...all I have to do is click the middle path on my tree if I wanna use it.
sweet summit
Feel like aoe bosses and sludge spear is better
sweet summit
Unnerving fucking OWNS
neat dirge
Unnerving is my favourite conduit
sweet summit
Same
strong forum
For me unnerving is legit >>> anything
neat dirge
Yupp
gaunt dawn
shame warrior dps sucks
fringe marten
But if you actually look at most of the top prots the more frequent combo is show of force/stalwart guardian.. and I see why.
neat dirge
Its accually bonkers
neat dirge
How good it is
sweet summit
Unnerving is a bigger dps increase than SoF lol
neat dirge
What's SoF?
sweet summit
Show of force
neat dirge
What's show of force?
sweet summit
Aka trash
sweet summit
Ye
sweet summit
Tru
neat dirge
Do I do kleia?
undone jacinth
Take finesse like a big brainier
neat dirge
Instead?
sweet summit
No
fringe marten
Only every 2 minutes. Run with the boomkin from my guild who's doing 6.5k+ zonewides because he's running ahead of me bouncing around flailing his chicken arms...nuking stuff before it's even getting near the "line of sight pull" spot..
strong forum
I go middle path path
neat dirge
Ok nomsenpai
neat dirge
Trueeee
fringe marten
I'm way more concerned with threat early in the pull, first couple seconds...keeping the crap on the edges of the pack from peeling to the fire mage or boomkin who are only concerned with competing with each other on the meters.
strong forum
You have spear for basically every pull
fringe marten
shout? did you go with the finesse conduit to boost rally cry? I like that one too
strong forum
And the pulls where you don't have spear you have challenging shout
undone jacinth
? It’s like 30% lol
zenith monolith
could save a life I guess
strong forum
Rallying cry lasting like 4sec longer
fringe marten
I want to run disturb the peace all week, and not just do like 1 or 2 dungeons; and give it a really good shot.
undone jacinth
it’s the best conduit
fringe marten
last few dungeons having shockwave on 17 seconds cd is stout.
fringe marten
I love that rally cry conduit; but I lean on it more for my raid path than M+
undone jacinth
m+ has so many good rally spots
fringe marten
Right; hence why I care about having a stronger setup for M+. Raids I can literally run full offense talents/conduits doesn't even matter.
undone jacinth
I died on pull to that famous dos pack yesterday because I missed one global and just thought what’s the ducking point in m+ honestly
fringe marten
Panthea you aren't wrong..I just hate pvp; and hate it even more that it's the easiest path to 220 gear.
gaunt dawn
any comp can get to 1800 🙂
well any non-meme comp
like prot warrior + holy priest
probably not
😄
ionic fern
imagine doing M+ for gear
Hei, that's me.
fringe marten
Again...not wrong. There's a reason everyone is saying "oh my garsh..pvp is so fun mang..why don't you do rbg's with us ..we're getting all dis cool gear bruh"
gaunt dawn
you might bore them to death?
zenith monolith
what can a prot warrior go into arena with ?
gaunt dawn
you go arms
strong forum
Nothing
gaunt dawn
or do RBGs
zenith monolith
yeah thought so
fringe marten
nope..you go prot~ LOL... in BFA I did 2's with any random person who would queue with me until I did enough to get the essences I needed.
undone jacinth
I think it’s still like 100 rbgs for 2100 though right
fringe marten
and if I have to do pvp for the 2 leggo's I don't have..I'm doing it as prot. no matter what.
gaunt dawn
depends on your win rate
fringe marten
Yeah but that's 2100
undone jacinth
pvp pointless if not 2100 imo
strong forum
220 is already great
fringe marten
1800 is the 220 threshold right?
gaunt dawn
1800 = 220 items
undone jacinth
meh
strong forum
2.1 is just for that sweet max juice
fringe marten
So if you try and equate that to PVE...that's like doing? M+ 12's ? or something
strong forum
If you ain't 221+ already, you kinda want 220s
ionic fern
😦
jagged pier
i got 1800 got me 222 ilvl
fringe marten
but instead of getting: nothing..and a horrible experience of kiting mobs...to try and get 210 gear from 15+.. You get 220's and you get to CHOOSE the items you want from a vendor. Wow? it's like...almost working toward gear is fun that way?
strong forum
Must've been omega lucky then
ionic fern
I'm not even gonna mention my ilvl.
undone jacinth
not lucky at all apart from one boe that I got
fringe marten
I'm 217, and I won't do pvp.
zenith monolith
218 and no pvp
sweet summit
2.4k for 233 shield 
fringe marten
I think i'm 218 max? or 219 max? but 217 equipped.
zenith monolith
i do have too much crit gear though
undone jacinth
I’ve just had max boxes from start and got 1 or 2 items from raid
strong forum
Same
strong forum
226 from week 1, without pvp gear I'd be 214/215
zenith monolith
think most the versa comes from PVP right ?
gaunt dawn
i'm 220 equipped with a 181 trinket 🤢
strong forum
Hymnal goood
gaunt dawn
can replace the 181 with a 226 tho
fringe marten
Anyway; the short of this conversation is that...gearing through pvp feels rewarding and worthwhile. And Gearing through large and small group PvE, at ANY difficulty tier...feels very unrewarding.
gaunt dawn
tbh, gearing through pvp has always been good
fringe marten
killing a mythic boss and seeing 3 out of 20 people pull an item; is some straight dogshit.
gaunt dawn
its just that pve gearing sucks now
fringe marten
I think that's more on point Panthea really.
gaunt dawn
if you truly care about your char progression, you should always be doing pvp
get the hang of it now
next tier, you're blasting
😮
gaunt dawn
pvp doesnt really change all too much, season to season
undone jacinth
killing a mythic boss and seeing 3 out of 20 people pull an item; is some straig...
Yesterday our tank rolled for a mythic cloak with the same stats as his but 25 more vers and 25 less mastery... over people who needed it... made me wanna gquit lol
gaunt dawn
you know what to CC, how to interrupt, etc
fringe marten
First of all..why aren't YOU that tank? Aren't ONLY prot warriors in here? (.../sigh)
undone jacinth
I tank sometimes but dps in raid mostly
fringe marten
But that's why you should have some kind of loot council going on, so there's a group of people trying to make intelligent decisions as to who gets the best mileage out of upgrades/etc.
undone jacinth
dps is more fun
gaunt dawn
But that's why you should have some kind of loot council going on, so there's a ...
Personal loot 😡
Loot Councils are toxic 😢
fringe marten
Blizzard also completely taking away directing where loot goes; even on mythic..is disgusting.
gaunt dawn
Master Loot is a sin
jagged pier
no they arent its way way better
gaunt dawn
do i sound like a dev yet?
ionic fern
Yes.
jagged pier
yes
fringe marten
Panthea, we can only council stuff that people can trade..and are willing to put UP for trade.
undone jacinth
usually we just rely on people to be honest about what they need but he legit thought he needed the 25 vers as an upgrade... didn’t know what to say
gaunt dawn
yeah, i dont give a shit about what people want ot trade
if its tradable
its up for trade
blue text = mine
jagged pier
yer thats the same with us as well but master loot just way better didnt have to think
strong forum
do i sound like a dev yet?
First you have to say that theorycrafting is toxic
Then I'll believe you
frail wyvern
Tanks are last priority for gear in our loot council 😭
jagged pier
loot went where it was needed
jagged pier
Tanks are last priority for gear in our loot council 😭
always have been
strong forum
Can't believe we have a dev here!!
jagged pier
if u care about loot play FoTM dps
gaunt dawn
Why would any player want to be the best they can be????
and obligatory tanknotes plug
check a look at it
xoxo
sweet summit
Ion hacked pantheas discord account 
fringe marten
A guild, a coordinated group of people working together to tackle the games 'most difficult' large group encounters. Should be able to do what they CHOOSE with the spoils from victory. Instead.. blizzard got bought by activision and they insta gutted their support staff so they had to change the way we play the game...to accomodate their lowered payroll.
gaunt dawn
tbh, personal loot makes complete sense from a fantasy perspective
frail wyvern
Put the DH bottom since he takes 0 dmg anyway, but I don't feel that comfortable tanking stuff as prot until I start gearing more
gaunt dawn
but being unable to trade everything doesnt
fringe marten
Jake, healers are last prio for us...DPS/tanks/heals. I think that's the way that makes the most sense. (of course great healer trinkets/items..go to them..etc)
strong forum
Our WW requested to be benched until we're at SLG cuz he doesn't need any loot.
undone jacinth
they have a legit reason for doing it, it’s just unfortunately affecting everyone for the sake of trying to stop shitty guilds
strong forum
So there's how much the guild is working together
gaunt dawn
DPS > Healers in for all prog > other healers > tanks
strong forum
ionic fern
Tanks should be last, jeah..can i join your guild @fringe marten so i can get pripority loot over healers?
undone jacinth
Imagine wanting your benching to end before stone legion and not after
fringe marten
Panthea sure, you pick up an item from a thing you kill..except you should be able to do what you want with it. Like you could in every mmo from 1999+ until "non tradable" suddenly became the way to be~
undone jacinth
you’ll have left the discord and unsubbed
gaunt dawn
Panthea sure, you pick up an item from a thing you kill..except you should be a...
Honestly, that's the wow community abusing ML
and for that reason, its good its gone
fringe marten
I understand that in the real world..the rules get made for, and because of..the lowest common denominator.
undone jacinth
guilds forcing people not to keep their loot especially if they are new to the guild is why it’s gone
ionic fern
SLG gonna be so bad that at the end of the week Panth replaces his profile picture tO:
gaunt dawn
"reserving items" is the real shitter
undone jacinth
haha
gaunt dawn
LFM Sire WEAPON, TRINKET, RING RESERVED
fringe marten
But this doesn't have to be the real world; it's a fantasy video game..and if in mythic raiding, a 100% guild group should be able to check a "master looter" box. to dictate where loot goes.
strong forum
Lfm sire, achievement reserved!
undone jacinth
you’ve never been in a guild that fucks over its raiders I guess
gaunt dawn
the trick is
to make your own
and then you're in charge of how much you fuck yourself over
undone jacinth
some of the things I saw guilds doing when I was trying to find one in BFA was ridiculous
gaunt dawn
ive seen some horrible shit in heroic guilds
frail wyvern
I do prefer LC to mythic guilds who just allow rolls on spare gear
Been there before
fringe marten
No that is true Dolphin; only been a part of this organization since legion. And it's run by mature intelligent people who actually care about the guild and their reputation tied to it.
I've also been playing mmo's since Everquest in 1999. So yes..I've seen and been a victim of the type of savage fuckery you're referring to.
undone jacinth
they need to do something though
not being able to trade stuff you don’t want is nuts
gaunt dawn
pve loot is being discussed internally 👀
fringe marten
ya know...the shitty dps who's been in guild for years. Who shows up all the time, and sucks..all the time. Then when the best weapon in the game drops, he throws all his DKP at it to get it.
undone jacinth
lol
gaunt dawn
but thats more to do with quantity rather than trading
fringe marten
(I kinda miss dkp..LOL Does anyone still do it?)
gaunt dawn
DKP is the worst system ever designed
strong forum
DKP was terrible
undone jacinth
I got 3 pieces of nightshade in my first molten core raid with dkp because everyone used theirs on trashy world drops or whatever
rigged the system
gaunt dawn
having a team of likeminded players is the best system
fringe marten
DKP, like a lot of things..is a really good system. Then humans get a hold of it and find ways to somehow utterly ruin it.
gaunt dawn
e.g. we had 2 cloaks drop from sun king yesterday
was BiS for like 8 people
but they just discussed who it would be the biggest upgrade for, did quick sims
undone jacinth
having tanks who don’t roll for 25vers side grades over people needing 26 ilvls would be a start xd
gaunt dawn
and we gave it out based on that (which was different from what we decided in the loot council)
ionic fern
having tanks who don’t roll for 25vers side grades over people needing 26 ilvls ...
Wait what
strong forum
DKP, people who are new to the guild don't get loot for 8 weeks cuz they farm points first
Yeah..
Great system
gaunt dawn
we also had people who got shriekwing cloak distributed and weighed in who could get that instead as it was still tradeable
fringe marten
That's what our loot council does panth; if it's that close they sim..otherwise it's a combination of who it's the biggest upgrade for; and who got something tonight/recently.
gaunt dawn
so from those 2 cloaks, we ended up having 4 upgrades in the team
undone jacinth
@ionic fern our DK had a 226 cloak with vers mastery and a 226 with vers mastery but 25 stats different dropped, he rolled and won over our dps with 200 cloaks
strong forum
Our guild is yolo, you get it you keep it, unless you wanna be nice enough to trade it away
ionic fern
😂
fringe marten
Dolphin that simply wouldn't happen here.
strong forum
Or disenchant it infront of the others eyes
fringe marten
Like..no chance.
strong forum
Just for fun
undone jacinth
he said he needed the stat weighting
frail wyvern
RC loot voting in my guild
undone jacinth
half the raid complained to RL and he equipped it instantly
fringe marten
He did need it. he did NOT need it more than the guy who needed 26 ilevels on the cloak.
undone jacinth
yeah that’s the play
gaunt dawn
only saw 2 items in the news feed
and was like
X, You havent looted, you've got an item.
fringe marten
RCloot is required for us; and yes...RClootCouncil is a straight NARC.
frail wyvern
Big play, just don't do anything other than raiding so when personal loot drops you don't have to give it away
gaunt dawn
wasnt one that could be traded tho 😦
undone jacinth
I really don’t wanna use it but when those situations happen you realise you need it just to stop people being people
strong forum
Yolo
undone jacinth
0.25% vers, can’t get over it
gaunt dawn
get your DK to @ me
ionic fern
👀
fringe marten
Yeah Rcloot is a narc, but it also does make the process of evaluating and voting on gear, and then trading it...really easy. it's a good addon.
gaunt dawn
cos i write them DK guides yo
undone jacinth
he just wants to live I guess
frail wyvern
0.25% verse is 0.25% verse...cmon Dolphin 😂
undone jacinth
I’m not making an argument for him, it’s the most retarded thing I’ve seen this expac
gaunt dawn
0.125% DR aint gonna stop you from a shit death strike/over marrowrending
ionic fern
😂
undone jacinth
we literally started the raid with a chat about how a few dps really need gear and then that happened on first boss lmao
fringe marten
We're tanks...we're MAD loot whores. But you still have to have the maturity to know when something benefits people more than you; and give it up.
frail wyvern
RC is good...if the people voting actually understand each class/specs needs
fringe marten
for most bosses I'm fury spec for the dps trinks, and to avoid a certain trinket on a certain huntsman guy~... and every time I get a dps trinket...raid lead says "uhh..RC says you can trade that.."
ionic fern
Just play m+ so no one gets loot. Solves all loot problems.
gaunt dawn
H = Heroic, T = Traded, P = PvP, W = Weekly Chest
fringe marten
"Yeah but..but I kinda' want it.." "...sigh..ok.."
frail wyvern
I just wanna know where you got that sleeveless shirt tbh
fringe marten
Bro what's up with the Edgelord farmer look?
gaunt dawn
loot corpses in AV
gaunt dawn
Bro what's up with the Edgelord farmer look?
its the elite pvp gear this season for leather
undone jacinth
man I thought I was bad at mogging
fringe marten
If you're going to be a soulless FOTM ..at least look stylin'
gaunt dawn
forgot weapons
any tank that says they need specific stats on their gear
is straight up bad yo
good play and just ilvl is all you need
fringe marten
Uhh? no? It's not so much exact statweights but more like "OHH I actually got a good piece WITH haste? Dooood"
frail wyvern
Well once you get to a certain ilvl then you can think more about optimising stats
undone jacinth
it’s just crazy that it wasn’t even a different stat, he had the same stats on his existing one just literally 20-25 different distribution
fringe marten
I had 223 Oxxein? something legs... Haste/mastery? I think... when the hungering legs dropped they were 3 ilevel upgrade..so I still voted for them. But it kinda' stung to put them on.
gaunt dawn
I had 223 Oxxein? something legs... Haste/mastery? I think... when the hungerin...
i'd refuse the item if a DPS/Healer needed em
fringe marten
I argued with the paladin "are you sure man?" "it's 3 ilevels and..I lose like 90 haste..it's not that big a deal" "I took 226 legs out of my vault today; you may as well use 'em.."
undone jacinth
at least that’s an upgrade, i wouldn’t judge you much for that
fringe marten
I was the only person who voted for 'em... no one else wanted 'em.
gaunt dawn
eh thats fine i guess
strong forum
good play and just ilvl is all you need
This
fringe marten
But anyway; no the dude with the 226 cloak stat shift...that's a bitchmade move.
Like..no.
fringe marten
Leadership should have stepped in on that; but if it's HIS cloak he looted, and then kept it because of the stat shift instead of giving it to the raiders who needed. That should have been his last active raid...he should be benched now.
frail wyvern
Tbh I would blame the raid leader or whoever is in charge of loot for not telling him to stop being an idiot
undone jacinth
he said no then said it was for vers so then we were sure he was joking
yes!
that’s the worst thing
fringe marten
Ya'll fucked up..
You have fucked up now.
That's on guild leadership; it sends a message and sets a precedent.
undone jacinth
multiple people were spamming RL about it, was ridiculous
frail wyvern
When you start wiping on a boss at 1% it will come back to haunt you
undone jacinth
he had to go afk for like 10 min after just to deal with all the messages while the raid room was silent lmao
fringe marten
and it wasn't a good one.
undone jacinth
they had a big speech about how we need to focus gear on certain dps players who are behind for the sake of prog
fringe marten
I thought...at bare minimum, he looted it..so they couldn't FORCE him to give it up.
undone jacinth
then that happened on literally first boss
fringe marten
The fact that his roll was 'considered' ...is absolute trash.
strong forum
I'd have just looked at his cloak
undone jacinth
yea like I said we all thought it was a joke
strong forum
And insta laughed at him
fringe marten
^ Exactly. I would have just looked at the next highest roll..looked at their cloak, and awarded it.
undone jacinth
after he said it was for vers we were then all sure it was a joke after not being sure it was a troll roll or not
because he’s usually a funny guy
then he said he was serious, everyone goes silent and you hear the RL using his keyboard to respond to whispers lmao
fringe marten
I have a feeling he's a trash player; Anyone who's that hyper focused on a tiny stat upgrade and can't see the larger picture of a stronger team, yielding more progression...yielding better loot...is a moron.
gaunt dawn
anyone thats hyperfocused on stats, isnt focused on their play
undone jacinth
he’s actually decent which is the worst part, performance wise
fringe marten
Right..that's what I mean
gaunt dawn
or is very good at the game
undone jacinth
not the best but ok
gaunt dawn
its rarely the latter
fringe marten
he's the type of guy who thinks...if he just GETS MORE GEAR he'll start toppin' da' meters bruh~
strong forum
It's like those 3000 people a day asking about "yo what should my vers be at" or "don't I have too little vers?"
Hate those questions
Fuck me
strong forum
S4 bfa
undone jacinth
yep sorry, delete char
gaunt dawn
are you saying that i shouldnt be close to top here 😦
undone jacinth
brewmasters are next level
strong forum
Exploding keg on adds
ionic fern
Poor Warrior. 😦
strong forum
👍
gaunt dawn
nop
strong forum
Or smth
gaunt dawn
get a turbo charged niuzao
fringe marten
Yeah but Season 4 BFA had gear that could truly swing your power curve. well..it had gear 'affixes' that could swing your power curve.
gaunt dawn
stomping along to hardstyle
strong forum
Yeah, and that's long gone
Not even remotely possible anymore
Yet people still cling to the idea
Which is retarded
fringe marten
Right; anyone who thinks getting 5% more haste will make them a noticably better tank, or getting 3% more crit will make them do so much more deeps~ is just foolish.
strong forum
frail wyvern
One of our mages current statweights 😂
strong forum
In 2021
gaunt dawn
in 2017 onwards
ionic fern
Hello, Pawn?
gaunt dawn
kekw
strong forum
Also true
ionic fern
frail wyvern
It just validates the whole ilvl>all
undone jacinth
‘Vers is my worst stat’
gaunt dawn
Sludgefist
fringe marten
However a lot of people really do think that; they think "oh man...he just out dps's me because he has the better trinkets..." (our shitty Spriest...talking about our actually good spriest) ..like...? You really think that?
gaunt dawn
Havoc pumping vs a non-PI hunter
restive flax
I mean trinkets CAN have a huge impact
fringe marten
He's smokin' you every fight, every time...single target, cleave..whatever. You think his 2 average ilevels or his trinkets are making him do like 10 to 20% more damage than you? are you high?
restive flax
but like, depending on the difference its just a bad excuse 😄
frail wyvern
The dude who gets grey logs saying 'i thought I did better this week' and you see he didn't even take food buff from the feast
restive flax
For tanks its a little different I feel like. Because trinkets really do make a big difference imo
undone jacinth
yea if you’re green parsing you just aren’t playing your spec or have the wrong talents or something
restive flax
The moment I got the scale off Hakkar... dude its insane how much better than trinket is than anything else I had
fringe marten
Well that's because they're the one damage toy we get to use, if we want to... we just slap on the highest ilevel gear. But if we get some cool fun toys..it can help our dps quite a bit.
frail wyvern
The guy I'm referencing is just bad, but he is also quite new to wow and raiding so he needs more time i guess
restive flax
I have a lot of newer people in my raid and its tough...
They want to do Heroic but they just dont do enough DPS
undone jacinth
it’s difficult when you start and don’t know what wcl is or anything
restive flax
and start blaming people
fringe marten
And I dunno about other classes; but this stupid Bell is way too strong.. mastery just scales out of control for us.
undone jacinth
bell on balance Druid is a big time joke
frail wyvern
He just doesn't look at fights as scripted, with the same thing happening at the same timestamp and working around those
fringe marten
I think it's bis for warlocks? too?
undone jacinth
mastery in general is pretty strong this tier
fringe marten
Well it's not subject to the same DR curve every other stat is, it's individualized per class.
and it's allowed to scale a lot stronger without the DR kicking in.
strong forum
Yeah mastery kinda slaps for alot of classes
undone jacinth
yea it’s broken
fringe marten
and just like mages and their pvp trinket; it lines up with avatar (without am) perfectly.
undone jacinth
they must intentionally put the broken low ilvl trinkets like that and hymnal in surely
fringe marten
oh 100%, they wanted everyone to have access to 'good' trinkets, so they made WQ trinkets good. It's not new. Remember Incessantly Ticking clock?
if you got a titan forge clock...breh~
fringe marten
It can pop up on your mission table
fringe marten
do DEM MISHINS
fringe marten
I have the hymnal we had from like..week 1?
but it's outclassed now.
a purple hymnal could be stornk
gaunt dawn
181 hymnal is big
fringe marten
oh yeh? I'll have to be on the lookout then.
gaunt dawn
from mission table
p sure it'll be outclassed by 226 skulkers tho
but only marignally
compared my sludge logs from using 181 hymnal and 226 skulkers
its close
and hymnal is a lot easier to use
no random leaps to boss ❤️
almost snapped chain quite a few times on prog from that
as you'd use it on pull, and you'd think its fine
run out for slam
run back in
LEAP
fringe marten
Skulkers is a fun toy though; I want one. I think all our dps have it now..I may get one next week.
gaunt dawn
On sludge you'd use it on pull, 2nd pillar, off CD, 4th pillar
fringe marten
yeah when our strong dps monk got his, he insta killed someone when we did sludge heroic later..."oh ..I forgot it made me jump to the boss.."
gaunt dawn
for any gamers here that have it and are on sludge prog
also pot on pull and 5mins
(tanks only, rest of raid should do with lust)
ionic fern
Imagine having trinket choices tho.
fringe marten
I have a 223 decanter from this week; it was sadly the best lookin' thing in there.
But my stone legion+bell is still my highest simming by a bunch
frail wyvern
Question, does stone legion trinket work across parties in a raid?
fringe marten
I simmed on dungeon slice..is that viable?
gaunt dawn
no, party group only
fringe marten
no erin
frail wyvern
Thats what I thought
strong forum
No dungeon slice isn't good
gaunt dawn
we have 7 people with it
fringe marten
which is why we have the stone legion squad that I'm in, for our raid.
undone jacinth
my guildy was telling me their friend got the 233 sire weapon from their vault despite being 5/10 - does anyone know if killing heroic sire unlocks the mythic loot pool for the vault?
frail wyvern
Been trying to get my rl to put all trinket users in the same grp
strong forum
🤔 dolphin
astral crystal
sounds fake
strong forum
No it shouldn't
gaunt dawn
chest loot is based on what bosses youve done
fringe marten
If that's true dolphin..? I dunno...that doesn't sound like how it's supposed to work.
strong forum
Well link to character + cheevo
fringe marten
The reality is..it's not a huge thing. we have 1 full group and it's..20'ish extra vers. like? ok.
undone jacinth
I didn’t ask who it was but he said he had been linked it, didn’t wanna just tell him he’s lying lol
gaunt dawn
The reality is..it's not a huge thing. we have 1 full group and it's..20'ish ex...
20x5
astral crystal
goes into dungeon journal and links 233 orb check this out got it from vault
fringe marten
no dude.
undone jacinth
yea idk
undone jacinth
It wouldn’t be the first time there was some bug or something
fringe marten
the whole group gets it, yes.
gaunt dawn
so basically, by not doing it
you're saying
FUCK A VANTUS RUNE
I DONT NEED THAT SHIT
🙂
yet guilds will vantus prog bosses as every little helps
its stupid to not do that
fringe marten
No; we do it...but arranging groups in a raid for a few extra vers is a bit extra; the DPS of course care.
That's another thing; why does vantus runes suck so bad now.
fringe marten
Sure they 'help' but they aren't nearly what they were.
fringe marten
uh..no more than that.?
Am I just remembering wrong? I thought BFA Vantus was a few % vers.
empty spindle
I’m night fae as prot warrior and I’m finding it hard which soulbind and conduits to follow any suggestions for mythic +
fringe marten
and no; pots are substantial damage increase. I know it's worth it because it's free 'potency' for the raid. So of course you do it. It just seems so nitpicky to have to put them in the same groups. Why doesn't it just go across the raid? All they'd have to do is put a max cap on it; and allow it to pair with people in a raid.
gaunt dawn
that would be logical
fringe marten
"5% per player with stone legion signet, up to 25%" boom...solved.
fringe marten
Wait no...
I'm thinking of the thing from Kiljaden
the tank trinket from Kiljaden, had some wonky shit with Shield wall
I had to make a WA for it to try it out.
Cosmic sliver?
it like built up stacks, and ? you'd use it...and it would take time off of shield wall refresh? It would be SUPER SICK right now.
So what is the dungeon slice sim?
frail wyvern
Simulates a dungeon i think, some MT and some ST
strong forum
It's the "Dont touch" sim
frail wyvern
Never tried it personally though
strong forum
Or "don't sim it" sim
fringe marten
What sim best represents an overall dungeon parse? Or do you basically need to choose between focusing on AoE or Single target? (for trinket selection)
strong forum
You sim 2min 1 target patchwerk
1 or 1.5min 5 target
1 or 1.5min 10 target
And then draw your conclusion
Or just equip highest ilvl + scale and emitter/stone legion/decanter
fringe marten
Yeah that's what I'm really worried about; if I actually get a decent scale...I'll have to bench the bell I think.
and 2min patchwerk isn't really accurate for a tyrannical boss I don't think.
fringe marten
and 90 seconds on a 10 pack?
you aren't actively fighting it for 90 seconds; some of that would be kite time...if it lived that long
Honestly you can't really accurately sim a M+, you're just looking for gear comparison guide lines.
fringe marten
and maybe the value of various talents..only from a damage perspective though.
So why would you choose patchwerk/amount of targets...instead of something like hectic add cleave?
fringe marten
fair enough.
strong forum
Other options besides patchwerk require new APLs
fringe marten
Ok so that's really what it's more about is that patchwerk is simply the most accurate sim regardless.
fringe marten
ok; still a 5 target ...the decanter is 57 dps less than stone legion. (223 decanter, 220 legion) jeesh.. 😦
strong forum
How
On 5 maintained targets decanter does like 200-240 dps
Pretty sure slg is oversimming
fringe marten
Maybe because my vers is pretty low without it?
fringe marten
I'm not arguing with you; just lookin' at what topgear is tellin' me.
fringe marten
UH also; I just happened to look at the firelands timewalking thing, and the 'sample' loot is a 200 ilevel Spidersilk Spindle. Which..? Looks pretty friggin' spicy..
Does the loot in the timewalking firelands drop at 200? or you only get 1 200 item from the chest when you complete the quest?
cunning sluice
It shouuld but keep in mind it drops at a reduced rate now like shadowlands.
fringe marten
..did you have to ? Did you have to Ion me?
cunning sluice
I was just letting you know after the "loot pinata" that was Ulduar timewalking. Blizzard saw people gearing toons strictly through the raid. So they nerfed timewalking to Shadowlands level of drop rate to people still play the current content to gear :\
astral crystal
wouldnt want people absolutely decked out in ilvl 200 gear kappa
cunning sluice
Exactly
astral crystal
why insist on going through the motions of 184 through 200
cunning sluice
Right ._.
I'm not agreeing with what they did. I just feel bad for people who are thinking they are going to walk out with 4-5+ pieces like the Ulduar raid >.<
astral crystal
ye
fringe marten
My point stands...did you have to Ion me?
For a moment I was like "ohh I could go do something different and fun, and maybe get a cool thing I might actually use!"
valid zodiac
That feeling when you hope for this week to be push week but after applying for 1:15h minutes you still haven't been invited to a group -.-
strong forum
Make your own group
undone jacinth
people aren’t gonna want you for keys you haven’t done yet
valid zodiac
I'm on 12/13 that I've done beside one dungeon that is 11 and I'm mostly applying to 13/14
strong forum
Push your own keys, best way to get going
Legit
Then snowball off of next weeks high key you get from chest
undone jacinth
people want people who have done 14s to do their 14s
and for some reason keys seem more popular than ever at lower key levels
or around the 14 mark
strong forum
We jumped from 1.8k to 3k in 1 week in early s4 because we bothered to push 1 key into 21, then snowballed off of the 20s next week.
Same can be applied now just different levels
undone jacinth
doing your own keys also lets you find players to play with if you put in a bit of effort
open monolith
This week seems free
undone jacinth
for ranged
open monolith
Yep.
frail wyvern
I kinda lost motivation to do multiple keys per week
open monolith
I do 4.
frail wyvern
I've been doing 1 lately, going to try and get at least 4 this week though
undone jacinth
I do my 10 because 14s are kinda chill now
but pushing is still hard to find motivation for
frail wyvern
I had a couple of bad luck weeks with gear and fell behind the rest of my guild, while they do 14s i end up having to work up through the rio to get into that level of key
frail wyvern
I have done my own key each week at least once, but its not the same as chilling with the guys on disc while you do it
undone jacinth
yea groups are better
strong forum
Chillin is hardly how I would describe it
undone jacinth
well, I perform worse in guild groups actually but it’s at least nicer
too worried about everyone else
frail wyvern
By chilling i mean the social aspects of it, which is a big part of what I enjoy about mmos. If I wanted to play a solo rpg I wouldn't choose wow
undone jacinth
I choose divinity then I realise I don’t have the patience to read any more
frail wyvern
I dont think it helps that if a guildie wants to come help you with a +11 and they only have time for 4 dungeons a week, they have to do a 5th to get 2 226's in their vault
undone jacinth
yea I don’t help my guildies with 12s unless it’s on my alts which isn’t the best
they also sometimes ask to do 14s and 15s and I think they think they are as easy as last season
bit awkward
frail wyvern
If you don't care about the timer and its done to get somebody a 226 choice in their vault its not a bad way to go, but requires 4 people to be picking up the slack
And ofc the boosted person can't be a tank or healer
undone jacinth
I tried a couple of weeks back, spent 2 hours in NW with a healer who couldn’t heal only for the servers to reset for maintenance, lost the key and had work in 5 hours
frail wyvern
Man that does suck
undone jacinth
decided I’m just not gonna help people as bad as that sounds
it was also my last key for extra vault slot as well so lost a whole slot
which I coulda done in a pug
frail wyvern
And that's a big design flaw in an mmo when you put people in situations where they don't want to help others again
strong forum
I tend to not carry guildies through runs
One officer made a good remark
"if i was football club owner and my players didnt want to practice and they all were 30% body fat"
"i would get rid of them"
undone jacinth
we have two raid teams so it’s mostly just helping the others, most of the main guys do pretty high keys luckily
strong forum
You wanna play the game, so play the game
Im only raid logging and I'm 3rd most geard player in guild
Without loot rng
frail wyvern
But then you wouldn't get rid of the guy who got injured and needed rehab time and effort put in by the club to get them to where they would be without the injury
strong forum
If he gets injured he can come back once he's fixed up and up to speed
Got burned too many times with "patching people up"
And then they quit 2 weeks later
Happened several times now
undone jacinth
And then they quit 2 weeks later
This
frail wyvern
I mean there's a difference between boosting somebody you haven't played with and helping somebody who got bad rng for 2 weeks during a loot drought
undone jacinth
people have so little sense of priorities or responsibility
strong forum
If you don't do your pvp or your 14s,its on you
undone jacinth
there’s so many times I don’t wanna raid but you just log in and do the bare minimum to avoid others suffering
strong forum
I'm RL and MT, I can't ditch no matter what
frail wyvern
2nd week of m0 I got no gear, then 3rd week (with m+ out) I got like 1 piece including vaults. By that point the equally active players were ahead to a point its hard to catch up, both in terms of gear and level of key they are doing
strong forum
I was 163 first m0 week, aka 20ilvl behind most
179 when m+ opened, did my 14s with 182
Was 10 ilvl behind on mythic launch, 193 or smth
Then I did pvp
Got to 203 in 1 day, then just weekly vault and more pvp up to now
frail wyvern
I mean you are in a high performing guild by the sounds of it, and are a top performer yourself, which isn't true for everyone unfortunately
frail wyvern
We only got 1/10 last reset, with 2 pugs 😂
strong forum
Cuz monk skipped raid and healers didn't have enough throughput to skip p2
undone jacinth
Skipping raids is the best
strong forum
Yeah except he said he'd be there but then overslept by 1hr,then decided to fully ditch
After coming online
undone jacinth
yea sounds like our pala
frail wyvern
Also we obviously have 2 tanks for raiding, but when it comes to m+ the monk likes to switch to tank and is irl friends with most of the active people so ends up getting invited instead of me
modern brook
Yeah except he said he'd be there but then overslept by 1hr,then decided to full...
That's a man
undone jacinth
my guildies all had their own crews so I just did higher keys than them and magically I started to get invites
the best one was when one was going for his ksm, didn’t say in guild but I applied in lfg, he told me he couldn’t take me because he needed to time the key, so I just went and did some 15s an hour later lol
strong forum
Also we obviously have 2 tanks for raiding, but when it comes to m+ the monk lik...
Nobody in my guild multispecs
It's actually so irritating
That 90% of the guild pug
frail wyvern
I really wish he didn't do it, and honestly its not something I feel comfortable bringing up with anyone since the officers and majority of raiders are irl mates
strong forum
Like.. You know each other, just fucking play together instead of complaining about bad pugs
undone jacinth
we have multispeccers except nobody multis to a healer
all the healers change to dps
and nobody changes to heal
don’t blame them tbh
valid zodiac
I have to say, going from Rumbling earth + Thunderlords to Stormbolt + The wall felt like amazing
dry spear
We had a rule. If you play a class that can tank or heal. You tank or heal in the early m+ days. Now it is not that strickt anymore
Helped alot for everybody to get the keys loot snd chest
frail wyvern
I get it if you need tanks and healers, but when you have maybe 8 or 9 truly active players there's no space for 3 tanks
undone jacinth
meh
puggers are better then guildies anyway
xd
I used to always do discord for every key and found some chill people pretty quick too
ripe kelp
i find after pugging for abit you fill up with pugs in your friends list always ready to go
strong forum
I have to say, going from Rumbling earth + Thunderlords to Stormbolt + The wall ...
Welcome to the Real game
astral crystal
lol
undone jacinth
ripe kelp
i bet he does alot of dps
undone jacinth
he’s a good boi
frail wyvern
Got a bad ass neck piece at least
Doesn't look like he put a gem in that socket though
undone jacinth
Blizz took away neck sockets 😦
hazy fern
Should I sacrifice ilvl for BiS?
undone jacinth
nope
charred ivy
how much haste should one have? or is it just endless
undone jacinth
Endless practically speaking
if you manage to get up to 39% from gear alone maybe consider stopping
charred ivy
haha y xD not close to that 😛
undone jacinth
also don’t really sacrifice your gear just to get haste
charred ivy
is ilvl >haste?
undone jacinth
yea
charred ivy
kk ty
strong forum
Helmet, neck, wrists, belt and rings can have sockets
undone jacinth
lol
strong forum
Basically all the shit slots, but switch cloak and put in helmet
sweet summit
I only have 5 sockets in prot gear 
modern brook
Bro
rogue still cant do twisting cooridors without randomly losing its powers
and i wont do maw until i can mount :^(
sweet summit
Wait what lol
undone jacinth
rogues in torghast 😂
amber basalt
Guys, anyone have weakaura or good addon for healer externals in raids? That WA for healer externals on wowhead prot guide doesnt work for me
healer tank externals*
hazy fern
Does the maw give you sockets?
strong forum
Seems like you missed a couple buttons there
valid zodiac
Can you skip the Necro Wake bridge pack with monk? If so how do you do it
modern brook
Ohine sounds like a dirty word tbh erga
sweet summit
:v)
modern brook
Yeah idk how much i trust minnesota
they're like 2 states away from mississippi 😬
I was thinking missouri
proper crest
@amber basalt Not a WA but you can use Exorsus Raid Tool to show single target CDs
undone jacinth
yeah ERT is the best if you can handle the ugly ui
warm thunder
Kleia sounds underrated
modern brook
Kleia is hotaf
not really relevent but
Personally im doing pelagos for arms pvp and kleia for prot stuff. We dont really need 2 potency conduits cause our potency options are dong
and 5% crit is pretty dope
the real question is "is it worth losing combat meditation"
warm thunder
I pref Kleia in raid
modern brook
and i dont have an answer for that past "probably not"
warm thunder
For prot ofc
hazy fern
Everyone uses Pelagius in raid is what I understand
warm thunder
Pelagos is fine and more oriented dmg
Kleia is more support/tanky
If you want to boost your dmg as prot then Palegos is the way to go, otherwise not really
hazy fern
I will try Kleia and see how it feels
modern brook
it becomes a defensive cd and a damage cd
warm thunder
But Kleia is kinda underrated
uneven mason
If you want to boost your dmg as prot then Palegos is the way to go, otherwise n...
the extra healing from the phial is big for prot...
also 3% spell damage reduction (soon)
sweet summit
that 3% is not noticable
uneven mason
its still 3%
modern brook
Yeah now i can get trucked by 97% of missed necrotic bolts
modern brook
Pelagos is great .
sweet summit
^
uneven mason
thats more of a 🤮 problem with DPS who can't interrupt.
warm thunder
CN is mostly ST
modern brook
the only reason to take kleia (and im sorry for not emphasizing this joke harder earlier) is cause ur simping for her
warm thunder
You can't really make use of that cd phylial reduction
hazy fern
I’ll just mention that 99% of prot warriors that killed sire run Pelagius
I believe that’s what I saw
dark lark
Question about Mythic Huntsman and Sinseeker: Sense's guide says it deflects the dot afterward, but can it also prevent the souls from spawning?
sweet summit
no
warm thunder
🤔
dark lark
Other immunities do prevent the souls from spawning though, right?
dark lark
lol yeah, trying to plan our strat based on our raid comp
and I noticed that reflect works in a limited extent on Sinseeker so I wanted to see if it was worth
modern brook
lots of prots are venthyr
warm thunder
Really?
modern brook
yeah
warm thunder
Didn't know that
modern brook
most are dps in raid
warm thunder
Yea ofc but not optimal
modern brook
damn he just called u not optimal erga
sweet summit
suboptimal
warm thunder
Kek
modern brook
I dont get the draw tbh
sweet summit
kyrain/nf is just better period
warm thunder
I'm playing Fury as 2nd spec and I feel meh while DPS on CN with Kyrian tbh
modern brook
shit soulbinds, shit command table, everyones a dope
sweet summit
big tiddy vampire gf
warm thunder
Like
modern brook
bro her chins bigger than her bust
modern brook
Kleia dumps on the vggf tbh
sweet summit
as both arms and fury yeah
modern brook
oh thats kinda cute
sweet summit
no u
modern brook
❤️
outer solstice
agile holly
i tank with a DH and he pulls more threat than i do pretty consistently is this normal?
wild sandal
is the venthyer soulbinds better for us than pelgos, like the mastery from theotar o r haste form najida
charred ivy
hmm if im makingthunderlrd lege for m+. should i go haste crit?
charred ivy
but haste / crit or haste /vers . hmm maybe vers
modern brook
Your putting more thought into it than is worth it