the wall is the best universal leggo
#protection
lofty widget
heavy sail
Thunderlords is pretty trash in raid
supple falcon
I was leaning that way. Seems like more talent flexibilty for M+ with Wall
heavy sail
Whereas the wall is still competitive in M+
supple falcon
Do you feel locked into AM with Wall? Or is Bolster still a decent option?
lofty widget
bolster is still great, and almost mandatory for higher keys and prog
heavy sail
No, not at all.
lofty widget
besides, even without AM the CD is reduced to like 1-2 minutes
heavy sail
Bolster is a necessity for progression I would say.
supple falcon
Cool. Thanks. I switched to Bolster last week and way easier once I got used to hitting it regularly instead of big hit cool down
sturdy sable
Yeah as a warrior your main goal is to always be trying to mitigate what is coming at you so saving cooldowns for "oh shit" moments leaves you open
silent grove
Always make the job for your healer as easy as possible
remember reading that on tankspot back in the day
sturdy sable
But make your off tanks job as hard as possible
silent grove
they should be someone elses main tank lol
open monolith
Best way to make your healer's life easy is to spam revenge so the boss dies quicker and they have to heal a shorter fight :D
bright salmon
How long would the cd for Shield Wall be, if ur running AM and The Wall?
dawn imp
sand obsidian
Good spot to get routes from for MDT?
vague jetty
raiderio website
knotty goblet
i boosted a prot warrior and i regret it because i didnt learn the class... (forgive me) is there anyone that can help me with learning the rotation and the main spells for dps
mellow patio
Read the icy veins guide first
solemn magnet
You got 10 levels to figure it out
knotty goblet
also i cant see my bar that shows how much of whatever i build up because of ElvUI. not entirely sure how to work it
gaunt dove
mellow patio
Step 1: disable elvui
Step 2: use vanilla ui like a real Chad
deft bridge
also i cant see my bar that shows how much of whatever i build up because of Elv...
by default it's only under your hp to the left
it's kinda crappy, but i left it there because i use a separate wa for res
knotty goblet
i dont see it... and i dont know where to look in the system
deft bridge
do /elvui
then press the
huh let me check the name
"toggle anchors" button
ahh in my case it's includced in the "player frame"
knotty goblet
how would i seperate that?
deft bridge
knotty goblet
is there any way to seperate it?
deft bridge
dunno, i use a wa
sturdy sable
im curious about why it says i took less damage than dh tank tho
Block
deft bridge
ah so it's just how the two classes work
would having 2 warr tanks for that fight be the best?
sturdy sable
Warriors handle autos extremely well
I think brewmasters do better just cause of elusive brawler
Dodging is better then blocking and all that
deft bridge
true, maybe 1 and 1
for variety
is there any advantage for me to keep the aggro the whole fight?
sturdy sable
For the BuFfS
deft bridge
or is the dmg still applied the same to the off tank
sturdy sable
I def think you want the tankier tank to have threat
But I'm not 100% as I always have threat on sludge lol
deft bridge
yeah that's what we we're doing
co tank always starts panicking when i lose aggro for some reason, so maybe it's working
civic rover
Step 1: disable elvui
Step 2: use vanilla ui like a real Chad
what the fuck is wrong with you
hawgz i expect better
mellow patio
Never heard of a problem with a vanilla ui
cerulean pebble
blizz UI is best UI.
mellow patio
Word
sturdy sable
i shouldn't talk, i use sco's ui
I'm sorry you do this to yourself
chilly brook
I'm still trying to figure out why reflecting wracking pain works sometimes but not most of the time
chilly brook
I think brewmasters do better just cause of elusive brawler
Yes and no
The brm is gonna take more damage and require more healing regardless
They just actually get elusive brawler on sludge if they main tank which pushes some of that out
Which can be very valuable in an already healing intensive fight
Realistically you dont lose defensive value on sludge by having the warrior be off tank
heavy sail
Rage gen suffers but it’s not anywhere near the loss that it is to not have EB.
Or whatever the guardian Druid ability is I can’t recall.
I use the default UI with some small adjustments with moveanything and weakauras
ElvUI just didn’t feel right to me anytime I tried to use it, I learned to play on the default UI and change feels icky
waxen crypt
hey does unbreakable will work on the whole raid or just party members
sweet summit
Just party
waxen crypt
ty
sand obsidian
which build is better for a new tank for m+, the one from wowhead or icy veins
sweet summit
We recommend icy veins because Mwahi writes that one 
chilly brook
@sweet summit any idea why most of the time you cant reflect Wracking Pain but sometimes you can?
jagged pier
well i usually use it on WP but i dont seem to reflect anything and still get the dot 🤷
chilly brook
You always get the debuff
sweet summit
It got hotfixed im pretty sure
chilly brook
Nah just worked for me tonight
jagged pier
so maybe hotfixed this week 🤔
did notice it on wednesday
but ill have a look this week
sweet summit
Hmmm
chilly brook
And now I know it definitely happened last week
Theres gotta be some timing aspect to it or something
sweet summit
Is it some cyclone shit that you can only reflect it when he is not targeting you?
chilly brook
Nah
Cuz I only used it when it was targeting me
More likely they just broke it with a patch and it's just bugged
sweet summit
And youre sure reflect didnt get consumed before it hit you 
wide fiber
just going over conduits, and apparntly i have completely missed one, where do i get iron maiden? is it even in game?
chilly brook
Yea I'm sure
sweet summit
just going over conduits, and apparntly i have completely missed one, where do ...
It got removed late beta
Replaced by fueled by violence
jagged pier
just going over conduits, and apparntly i have completely missed one, where do ...
it never made it to live 😦
wide fiber
ahhh, ok thxs was googling and was like wtf
sweet summit
Yea I'm sure
Idk mate
chilly brook
It's not major it's like 14k per reflect
When it works anyways
But I mean that's free damage
Blizz why you do this
faint barn
vestal moat
Are any of the PVP trinkets reasonable for PVE? I'm thinking the 61 s tr on uce increase max health one. I would be able to get it at max ilvl
or possibly the crit / primary stat increase one
jagged pier
the haste primary stat one is good
thoughs other 2 are not
hymnal trinket is up on EU
chilly brook
Maybe Mwahi can figure this crap out lmao
jagged pier
mine was 168 
chilly brook
Wracking Pain sometimes being reflectable
jagged pier
Don't give me things to figure out at 10am.
this tbh
sweet summit
184 hymnal? 👀
chilly brook
Hymnal is busted
jagged pier
184 hymnal? 👀
mine wasnt but picked it up anyway
sweet summit
O
narrow sparrow
Was it up recently for US?
sweet summit
US had 184 bell 
smoky wave
Another trinket? Busted enough to be worth using it over a 200 gluttonous spike?
jagged pier
yes
sweet summit
Oh yeah hymnal is just spike but better tbh
smoky wave
Cool, I'll grab that later then. Ta
Got a 184 scale, 213 of the use one that stacks the increasing damage, the wq damage reduction one and 200 spike. Guess I'll be using scale and hymnal then at 184
Really want the alar one so I can sacrifice melee to live.
ionic fern
Wracking Pain sometimes being reflectable
Maybe a bug? 👀
Can't seem to find anything reasonable from a brief look.
young glen
So it has happened. My guild is inquiring whether I'd reroll to VDH as our Havoc just quit :/
jagged pier
So it has happened. My guild is inquiring whether I'd reroll to VDH as our Havoc...
why?
whats your progress?
ionic fern
"But we need the 5% buff".
young glen
4/10M
young glen
"But we need the 5% buff".
This
ionic fern
If you want to re-roll..then do it.
If not..don't do it.
It's not something holding you back at that level.
young glen
Yeah. True. I didn't reply yet. Actually not interested.
jagged pier
what your looking for is your warrior dps to reroll so you the only AP buff
thats what happened to me
ionic fern
😂
jagged pier
i was the back up monk to that point, now the other tank is gearing his
ionic fern
Just be smooth and tell them:
"Yeah, i'm a multi tank player...i can play Kyrian Protection Warrior , NF Protection Warrior and Venthyr Protection Warrior".
jagged pier
I actually have 4 warriors 🤔
ionic fern
....
jagged pier
not max lvl yet though
ionic fern
I don't have any class more than once.
ionic fern
OR..just replace all your magic damage dealing DPS'ers with physical damage ones.
So you don't get the benefit from the DH buff.
jagged pier
we do have a ww it was incase he cant turn up i was to play monk on those nights only, which has happened before in other raid tiers. like i was monk for our first fetid kill back in day
rapid trench
So whats your ot playing
jagged pier
bdk/brew
rapid trench
There u have it
If your guild wants to be anal about classes bringing the dk is inting
young glen
what your looking for is your warrior dps to reroll so you the only AP buff
What they are looking for is to get me on VDH and their WW rerolling to arms to cover all buffs.
rapid trench
Ww to arms Lol
young glen
🤷♂️
jagged pier
What they are looking for is to get me on VDH and their WW rerolling to arms to ...
he can just reroll dh tho 🤔
they do more damage than arms anyway
young glen
Or we will simply wait for 9.1 and whatever changes they will add and see. I don't see us achieving CE for castle Nathria
But who am I to say this
ionic fern
Well, what i said still stands:
If you want to, do it.
If not, don't.
strong forum
You should stay prot your OT should be veng and you should have a ww
That's unironically what we have
But our WW overslept yesterday and just decided to not show up to raid
Real fun.
rapid trench
Its the best of all the worlds
You minimize the "bad" classes while having all the buffs
heady ivy
Is Draven better than Nadjia for venthyr prot? Im currently just running nadjia because I used to play Arms but Draven's souldbind looks like it is more tank focused
I guess I will end up swapping to NF/Kyrian at some point but I'm kind of lazy about doing the whole campaign again
specially NF as I did that with an alt and was not a fan
sweet summit
Draven is solid
urban portal
venthyr prot is so painful
ngl
my friend who did heroic sire today said he didnt get to press execute once
because he was so rage starved
jagged pier
then hes playing wrong
urban portal
he beat heroic sire so he must be doing something right
turbid cargo
er..
jagged pier
not really
young glen
You are never really rage starved
jagged pier
we had someone the other day who nerly kill sludgefist without pressing sb
sweet summit
Imean i charged into massacre and still killed hc sire
jagged pier
how can you be rage starved on sire in execute you get so many charges 🤔
heady ivy
Hmmm
worthy ingot
tried out Venthyr tanking in a 14 ToP, not bad. missed spear but the pump is real
heady ivy
guess I'll hold off on changing then for the moment in case i want to run as arms for some runs or something
heady ivy
Kk, thanks!
blazing condor
are there any m+ / bosses where Shattering throw is op?
ionic fern
NW last boss.
SoA golems etc
blazing condor
ah yeah makes sense
lime urchin
It has a cast time so I’m always a bit scared to use it
Then again I am a pleb that only understand half of most mechanics.
heady ivy
What do you guys use to target the orbs from the affix? They usually catch me with thunderclap and shield slam on cd and the AA is sometimes too slow 😦
If they are far away i just use HT but for melee range?
mental oasis
Can I tank casually with fury gear?
jagged pier
Can I tank casually with fury gear?
yes
mental oasis
nice
jagged pier
What do you guys use to target the orbs from the affix? They usually catch me wi...
only SS, melee and HT will hit them from use
sweet summit
As long as u have weapon and shield ye
heady ivy
only SS, melee and HT will hit them from use
Hmmm okay, so it just sucks
cosmic charm
yo guys I have 2 necks, one gets me to 22%haste 9.2/4.6% vers and 23.34% mastery and the other one is 20.64% haste 22.24% mastery and 11.23/5.61% vers. So basically it is 1.5% haste vs 2/1% vers. My focus is on dungeons, which neck is better in your opinion?
strong forum
Haste
The only properly good necklace in the game is the one you're referring to.
Sin touched or sin stained something
It's the best neck for us
cosmic charm
ye, got that 200 with socket, not the best but usable
strong forum
If it has a socket it's even better
jagged pier
until you get like a 226 version
cosmic charm
ok thanks for answers, it dropped from first hoa +7 that i went this xpac so I got pretty lucky 😄 I guess I wont be changing that for a while due to Prot being my offspec
tight tree
Hey i got a question. There is video of necrotic wake Amarth boss kill. Anyone know if this snapping point for adds still works?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJSESJ5tDYs&feature=emb_logo
It is beta so probably fixed
but still
😉
sweet kayak
Signet of Tormented Kings, does it proc when you use Ravager?
tight tree
@sweet kayak no
lofty widget
it doesnt
sweet kayak
meh 😦
tight tree
diff spell ID
sweet kayak
i see
dry spear
hymnal trinket is up on EU
only 168 for me....why....is it still surpreme?
maiden ravine
sim it, but 168 is unlikely to beat anything 200+
jagged pier
sim it, but 168 is unlikely to beat anything 200+
i dont think youve seen the logs if u think that
strong forum
Only select few trinkets can dish out 100 dps
ionic fern
sim it, but 168 is unlikely to beat anything 200+
My 164 is beating out almost everything. 👀
maiden ravine
hmm, it sims worse in any multitarget situation for my druid, and it's barely better single target.
ionic fern
Against what? 🤔
maiden ravine
He's rocking a 220 flayedwing toxin and a 203 decanter. Decanter seems to win in AoE, a 181 hymnal in purely single target.
night wadi
How would a kyrian arms war do compared to a venth arms war?
jagged pier
wrong channel
night wadi
How much more in % would vent arms war do in dps?
night wadi
Ah fk yea sorry coz im prot and forced to dps
maiden ravine
I think for my bear at least, the proc doesn't outweigh losing 63 primary, hopefully I can get my hands on a 197 one in a few weeks when world quest ilvl increases again
or better, 210 from a bastion epic calling
hollow cove
For those of you who play Arms & Prot, how do you decide what loot spec to set for the Great Vault?
Do you fish for biggest upgrade?
jagged pier
still looking for a shield
but
dpending if i dont hit 1800 this week
ill probs go for arms
for a wep
hollow cove
Yeah that's my issue too. Trying to hit 1800 for wep, but if not, I'm tempted to loot spec Arms
strong forum
He's rocking a 220 flayedwing toxin and a 203 decanter. Decanter seems to win in...
That's because of mainstat vs vers of hymnal, but the proc of hymnal itself is legit powerful
And isn't flayed toxic wing mediocre af
waxen cradle
so Prot is showing use enough in PvP to push arena rating decently ?
lofty widget
not at all, arms is superior in every way
maiden ravine
it's 220, a lot of agility, and the proc is consistently 3-4% of my damage, in line with other trinket effects for me
jagged pier
so Prot is showing use enough in PvP to push arena rating decently ?
no never
waxen cradle
about to say I was like wtf
strong forum
Only prot pally and guardian can be considered in arena because they're usually 50% healer 50% dps
But not a single tank actually belongs in arena
waxen cradle
I was like did I fall into a alternate world where the most absurd things are possible
strong forum
Idk why so many people keep asking about tanks in pvp, like you do fuckall dmg...
lofty widget
and you take like 40 % increased dmg
maiden ravine
Protadin is stupid in arenas right now
waxen cradle
I mean I did just get back and did not scroll up and read and thats what I get
strong forum
Yes that's because Blizzard is ignoring every feedback so far
And every tuning pass
And it's prot pally they can heal
strong forum
At this point
I don't think we will see any tuning until Hof is done
Any tuning
Bosses, classes or pvp
lofty widget
sorry, hof?
strong forum
Hall of fame
maiden ravine
Blizzard is very scared right now of changing various "rankings" of specs due not wanting to upset anyone who's invested time in covenants and legendaries
lofty widget
ah right
strong forum
That's bullshit
waxen cradle
I mean I do play a pally tank as a alt, and yeah they do awesome damage but dude in challenging pve content you better pay attention or your shatter like glass
maiden ravine
Could you imagine the gnashing of teeth that would have happened if Blizzard had buffed Frost mage above fire?
lofty widget
well you could argue that ppl getting fucked by those specs are equally upset about losing all the time..
strong forum
The balance of the game is terrible
Bosses have seen 0 tuning
Which is unprecedented this far into a tier
The only changes have been 2 nobs turned by 2%
restive flax
so uh... I just heard a tank monk say that they can parry bosses... Can you parry bosses as a prot warr?
maiden ravine
What boss is Ion on?
strong forum
so uh... I just heard a tank monk say that they can parry bosses... Can you parr...
Every tank can parry and dodge bosses
Some more than others
strong forum
Classic
maiden ravine
generally str tanks parry, agi tanks dodge.
lofty widget
we gain parry with out crit as well
dry spear
lucky
restive flax
Oh right, I maybe inferred something from the fact that the general stat recommendation was that crit is better in m+ due to parry
waxen cradle
all I want is some damage done tuning for my Prot Warrior, either buff the tanks that are admittedly still below the 2 main dps outlier tanks right now or nerf DH, and Pally damage and do a tuning pass nerf on the raid bosses
maiden ravine
I would love more warrior buffs. I am actually shelving my warrior for a couple weeks cause I just wasn't having fun playing her, dps or tank.
waxen cradle
We are fine in terms of how we handle damage I feel, but the niche we had of doing a lot of damage during 8.3 is gone and we are far less wanted
I do now and have always felt that as a class that can only tank or dps that we should do a lot of damage, I mean shit what the hell else are we gonna do, we can't heal so why should be not hit things like a truck
strong forum
all I want is some damage done tuning for my Prot Warrior, either buff the tanks...
Buff every tank.
maiden ravine
VDH bores the hell out of me but I can't deny it's effective as hell at tanking with fiery brand build, bear's my main though cause I love them this expansion. So VDH gets to stay an alt.
jolly thistle
revert TC dmg nerf and buff everything by at least 15%
jolly thistle
Would still be below pala vdh and brew
dry spear
lol that trinket:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3snctzj1ovu3QCrNxR3Zif
i'm just prot-for-fun. so dont mind the enchants pls
waxen cradle
I mean my god we can't heal ourselves, or anyone else, and we should not be able to for that matter. We don't have a ranged spec, (god that would be as dumb as pissing up a wet rope anyway). All we can do is melee smash the hell out of things, but for some reason Blizzard thinks us hitting REALLY hard as melee is a bad idea.... I'm like WTF Blizzard
jolly thistle
but spamming TC is boring
Not the talent changes only 42% ap back to 50%
restive flax
Ah I see
jolly thistle
not sure if that’s even enough to make UF viable again
waxen cradle
the synergy or the talents broke UF, not just the damage nerf
jolly thistle
I like protw atm from a playstyle POV. It’s just the numbers are completely off compared to other tanks.
waxen cradle
putting Demo shout back to AM, and buffing UF would return us to BFA style but our most powerful spell would be TClap again and that felt like shit
jolly thistle
That’s only cause we have pretty good burst for m+ and with kiting in mind. In sustained multi target fights we’re well behind too.
strong forum
Current patch is literally a typical overreaction again
To bfa and beta
Beta, tanks got continously nerfed defensively
Except prot
Then an over correction on dmg of pwar through bfa build
Not accounting the loss of high Avatar uptime + bom and essences
waxen cradle
When I say I want damage buffs I am not talking AoE/M+ trash pulling damage to be clear. I am talking about damage output on raid bosses in ST, or when I am standing next to say a DH during raid, and he is beating my damage by a pretty good margin
jolly thistle
And if you want to pump you need to completely ignore IP to keep up with tanks that can play “normal”. I like to have the choice between dmg and defense but like I said before- the numbers aren’t tuned correctly
waxen cradle
Our ST damage during raid, or during M+ feels awful
strong forum
Im keeping up/beating my dh cotank, but that's because he's not 95-99 logging
Only purple
dry spear
just to understand: you guy complain because prot dmg isnt that good or the overall def. kit? or everything?
strong forum
Prot dmg is 20% behind everybody if you look at parses
Defensively we're good in raid
But in m+ every tank shits bricks defensively
waxen cradle
I can keep up with my co tank also pretty well also, but I don't know maybe I feel that me taking my shield and continually pummeling the boss in the face with it should hurt a bit more
strong forum
Not a single tank is actually good
dry spear
hmm ok. so i see so many DH tanks in m+ because of their dmg?
strong forum
Only in comparison between shit, dh is the least shit
maiden ravine
I think bears are good and so is fiery brand VDH.
strong forum
They're not good, they're just the least shit
dry spear
hehe ok 😄 then i understand
restive flax
What would your definition of a good tank be then?
Rather, what would he have to bring
waxen cradle
DH has the best kit to handle Blizzards WTF @_@ kitegasm of M+ right now
strong forum
Be able to facetank without resorting to kiting.
restive flax
Ah I see
dry spear
Be able to facetank without resorting to kiting.
dude. i had to learn the hard way. i was running into a m+11 pack. first dungeon as a tank. got my stuff up. and then boom boom boom down..lol
and then they told me to kite. and i watched some vids then. i really dont like the idea of running away from the mobs you are tanking.
strong forum
Every tank is kiting :)
jagged pier
i mean you shouldnt need to run away on an 11 tbh
restive flax
depends on the pack
restive flax
in DOS I kite the middle packs
strong forum
That's the sad reality
strong forum
You rely on your dps players to kill the pack before your CDs run out
That's the current meta
dry spear
but we are missing tanks for m+ stuff in the guild
waxen cradle
Honestly I HATE this season of M+ for 1 reason alone which is... lets run in pop all my shit, do really well until my cd's fall off, OH FUCK!!! time to run away
maiden ravine
I have to wonder what "ilvls" Blizzard expected people to do various keys at and if we're just doing keys higher than they "intended" for our gear.
waxen cradle
Now that is a gross exaggeration I do not mean pop every CD at once, what I do mean is if you dont have cd's ready then your at the mercy of your dps to help you kite or slow adds, or stun them or do something to give you time to get those cds back up or your licking the floor
strong forum
They intended to do keys at +15 and then stop pushing
dry spear
yeah but what ilvl would make up for the instat gibs you are getting in a like 15+ keay
ionic fern
I have to wonder what "ilvls" Blizzard expected people to do various keys at and...
Meanwhile i'm gearing through Mythic+ and am 208 ilvl feels gooood.
😒
That's my biggest gripe tbh. 😂
waxen cradle
Your alts yeah Mwahi ?
ionic fern
No, this is my main.
waxen cradle
And yeah the juice is not worth the squeeze in terms of rewards for pushing keys now
jolly thistle
I’m at 218. 15s are fine except a few packs are just overtuned with their magic melee attacks
dry spear
i really thought i was a really bad tank because i used to stand and tank. and only kite because of AE stuff. but know i know. if that is the problem every tank has
waxen cradle
OH I thought ya meant your alt
ionic fern
I mean..15's-16s are fine at 208 as well.
But there's no point doing them.
Which is a shame.
dry spear
just for the score
ionic fern
Pretty much-.
dry spear
and u kinda need score if you wanna pug. even as warri tank.
but thats only my experiance
jolly thistle
There was never a reason to do higher keys. It’s still fun to play with a group of friends and push to your limit tho.
waxen cradle
I mean I get it in a way... they want raid gear and vault gear to be the source of highest item level gear, but the mistake they made is they let the whole BFA loot system be a thing and then handed us this bag of shit and said "enjoy"
maiden ravine
Yeah, I have to agree that Blizzard basically expected us to stop at 15 and that's it. MDI is gonna be what, +16 or 17s?
waxen cradle
There may truthfully never been a "real" reason to do higher keys, but it created that incentive, and extra method of acquiring loot when you knew that there was that potential to gear through M+ and not be cut off below heroic level gear
ionic fern
Jeah, completing a +16 on time for +35 anima is so rewarding and exciting.
dry spear
just a general question: are the 2nd stats from the covenants the same on the weapons or not?
maiden ravine
Granted I'm not a pusher either. My goals each season are KSM, maybe AotC, and if there's a set I really like, 1800 for the elite pvp armor
Weapons can actually be different per covenant, no one is sure why
dry spear
SO, you can go for a cov with the best 2nd stats. and then change back and keep the weapon yes?
waxen cradle
Like I said I get it, they sat back and decided that doing M+ was more viable for gearing, and for the most part better for gearing than doing the heroic raid content and they slammed on the breaks, but NOW its the opposite of that in every way. Now there is a hard cap on item level rewards past a specific key level(which is below heroic item level btw), AND they lowered the number of loot drops.
ionic fern
Jep.
Plus.."Oh, you want maximum rewards from m+? Gotta do a ton of keys that will drop nothing to you in the process . :)"
And then you can get those 3 items from the vault.
orchid frigate
typical that they hyperbole on issues
maiden ravine
Raiders complained that m+ made heroic raiding and progression pointless.
orchid frigate
prot warrior doing good? let's "fix" that!
maiden ravine
Nope, cause, "raiding takes 2-6x as many players and higher coordination so surely it has to give the best rewards"
waxen cradle
So now you do a +15, and you feel good about yourself until you open that loot box, and either get +35 anima, OR a 210 piece of loot. They are literally telling us were gonna screw you in a form of content. Blizzard is like why are we going to do this because screw you player base that's why
jolly thistle
You’ll still do 10x 14s to not get completely bent over by RNGesus
ionic fern
ANd that 10x 14 is horrible.
orchid frigate
but still you can be bent over... 😦
maiden ravine
That's them over correcting again. PvP participation was in the gutter after Legion and BfA.
ionic fern
Cause the chances of getting usable loot from it is...horrible.
So you are just forced to grind it through.
Making it another "job".
maiden ravine
You don't have to do 10 keys, it's there if you want the best chance at your cache loot being an upgrade
I'd probably do 1-4 keys most weeks.
ionic fern
I mean...that's what you gotta do if you gear through m+.
maiden ravine
I've had 3 choices once from m+ cache and haven't had a week not offer at least one upgrade between m+ and pvp
and I'm 215 ilvl
2 m+ and 1-2 pvp choices is usually enough for me
waxen cradle
Did you guys see there last post several weeks ago, when they talked to Ion about the way they setup loot and drops in SLands. He was like "yeah were happy with how things are working out" I wanted to seriously go off on that dude one on one
ionic fern
Which makes doing m+ itself useless. But you are still forced to do it in order to get the best gear from the chest.
maiden ravine
it'd be the same if m+ dropped 213
dry spear
i only did 1 key this week. it was tirna. and now i wanna see if my lot is only from the tirna dungeon.
ionic fern
What i'm complaining about is the number of loot being dropped in m+.
waxen cradle
^^^
WAIT WAIT!!! Mwahi you mean that +35 anima is not a worthy reward for timing that +15 key ?
waxen cradle
exactly
ionic fern
Atleast makes up for the repair bills i get by trying to pug m+.
waxen cradle
100% agree
undone jacinth
Did you guys see there last post several weeks ago, when they talked to Ion abou...
He said they were happy with pvp and not anything else...
maiden ravine
I think they've come to the conclusion that players won't be happy with slower gearing to fit Blizzard's timeline of how fast we should finish gearing
waxen cradle
I don't know at the end of the day they will do what they think is best or what they choose to as it is "there game", but I do not care for the 180's they keep doing with drastic swings from one of the pendulum to the other
maiden ravine
They want us to stay and feel engaged for as long as they can each season without us getting bored and unsubbing until the next tier.
waxen cradle
yeah certainly seems that way
maiden ravine
9.1 is still at least 4 months away.
and many players are getting really close to 220+ even the casual non mythic raiders
tight tree
I hate kiting as well, but if they tune for NOT kiting, THEN kiting WILL become OP as fuck, and people who want to kite will abuse it, to an extent it will become meta
I really see no way of avoiding this
Unless you take away kiting tools and normalize mobs and pulls like FF14 does
orchid frigate
thanks to pvp a lot of people are better geared than ever before
waxen cradle
Kiting when its necessary is absolutely fine. I get and will do it and not complain, but putting us in situations where outside of those brief cd windows that you simply have to choose to kite or die. That is just not cool because at that point your not tanking. Your keeping aggro and running.
jolly thistle
I really see no way of avoiding this
Anti kiting abilities? Melee or ranged attacks that slap your dps/healer if the highest aggro target isn’t in range
tight tree
That would make it even more antimelee than it already is.
Rooted mobs will do slap closest melee if there is no tank
People just bring ranged
jolly thistle
Then do random casts.
tight tree
Yeah that would work to an extent
undone jacinth
what does abusing kiting even mean
kiting isn’t good
you do it when you’re gonna die
the only question is how many mobs should = gonna die
the answer right now is more than 0
tight tree
say you can easily facetank +15. in that case, to do +20 you have to kite, so everyone will kite +20s
jolly thistle
- pull size is already limited through the amount of interrupts you have in the group.
undone jacinth
you should be able to face tank a 15 no question
waxen cradle
Maybe Blizzard needs to restate the intended purpose of a tank for M+ in this expansion, and just say that were tanks while we have cds available to survive the current pull of enemies, or to effectively pull the next pack. Outside of that label us as little more than dps running for our lives.
undone jacinth
if you’re using your active mitigation you should be able to tank any generic mob and specific mobs should have more dangerous moments, it’s simple
tight tree
make it +20 and +30, point is, with current system, kiting allows you to make bigger pulls and do higher keys
jolly thistle
Or give tanks more dps that you need to pump and stay in range in order to be able to complete the key in time
waxen cradle
Agreed and I will not argue that, and there are times where if you over pull and lack cd's to account for it your going to die. That makes sense and is how it should be.
tight tree
i would say just give tank more dmg and survivability, and make most mobs immune to roots/slows
undone jacinth
lol
waxen cradle
But when they design M+ to prevent you from being able to effectively survive pulls when doing things correctly thats a issue
lofty widget
this whole kiting meta isnt even an issue for anything under 19s probably, so 99 % of ppl wont have to deal with it
undone jacinth
you should be prevented from doing certain pulls otherwise it just means all the mobs are completely non threatening
the point is currently a 3 pack of basic auto attacking mobs can force you to kite at the top
all they need to do is up the power of active mitigation across the board and reduce DH damage
and slow down mob cast speed
maybe a k value change as well
waxen cradle
Probably DH and Pally to be fair, Pally's are a trap tank sometimes if you ask me. They have the allure of all that damage and those inexperienced try to push keys on them and learn fast how much like glass they can be. However buffing active mitigation would go a long way to fix that, and I feel buffing tank damage specifically in terms of ST needs to happen
tight tree
And there is not many basic mobs left, trash is so annoyingly complex right now
undone jacinth
it’s not even complex it’s just overtuned
the cd on their abilities and their chain cast behaviour is just too much
even if you know what everything does, it just does too much of it
tight tree
Too many kicks too coordinate imo, but that is very subjective. I just hate when trash is more than trash should be
undone jacinth
ah the old back in legion we could pull 100 mobs argument
tight tree
Honestly it was 10x more fun
Big pulls and uncapped aoe feels more fun than current situation, any day
maiden ravine
M+ already has the lowest K value of all content
undone jacinth
more challenging is better imo, just right now the difficulty is all with tanks and healers which are already the least popular roles
tight tree
Maybe, but for me better is when i feel like i am badass warrior defending my group, not like a pussy running from mobs
waxen cradle
ironic that a form of pve content that rewards lower than heroic item level gear, but is on par with Mythic raiding has such a low k value
maiden ravine
if tanking was easier, we'd just pull more and favor uncapped dps even further.
It's sort of what they're trying to avoid
maiden ravine
they just need to cap fire and unholy
lofty widget
aoe cap hardly has an effect tbh
tight tree
it is pigeonholing people to play like blizz intended instead of being creative
maiden ravine
I'd rather the cap then go back to every trash pack killing your entire team if you didn't chain stun.
waxen cradle
I vote for a change of term, no more shall it be called AoE, it shall now and hence forth be referred to as AoX5
tight tree
aofive
meager merlin
so basically what you don't like is before your pull size was limited by group and player skill (how many mechanics/kicks can you deal with) and you think everyone should be pulled down to your level?
maiden ravine
SL dungeon design in general is miles ahead of BfA and I'm glad of it.
maiden ravine
Eh... depends on the dungeon. Legion did give us Seat and Cath afterall
tight tree
It is just, instead of dungeons for mmo players, they are dungeons for m+ competitors
meager merlin
thats funny cause I dont think the top end exactly like current dungeons
maiden ravine
BFA was designed with MDI in mind, I think Shadowlands went more back to "dungeons are fun in game" and I generally think they achieved that.
meager merlin
idk they design dungeons(everything really) from the perspective that the players are an enemy to be defeated, if players take approach X then thats a problem that needs solved in their eyes and I don't really understand it
tight tree
they are carefully constructed to be on-the-rail experience for scaling difficulties
not to be fun adventures
undone jacinth
they are completely designed around m+
the amount of areas that have 20% trash for pride is a joke
they are obviously completely on rails for pride purposes
and to prevent big pulls
tight tree
also they reuse world areas too much and that cheapens them greatly
signal plover
At least dungeons are actually relevant for the entirety of an xpac
meager merlin
I don't see how thats relevant
maiden ravine
also they reuse world areas too much and that cheapens them greatly
I acutally enjoy that, having dungeons you can visit in the world is cool.
meager merlin
they've been relevant til end of expansion since mop
meager merlin
earlier depending on your definition of relevant
maiden ravine
I'm probably one of the few that is fine with not wanting to do just massive pulls.
undone jacinth
I’m not looking to do massive pulls, I just don’t wanna go through an entire dungeon in a straight ducking line one pack at a time
signal plover
I don't think blizz rly gives a shit about how the dungeons play out once you're past the level at which they cap out in-game rewards
meager merlin
"how big can we pull " was super interesting when pushing keys, its a very demanding way of shaving time off the timer, every pack adds more mechanics to dodge, adds a higher DPS requirement, and adds more coordination
maiden ravine
There's very few dungeons since maybe Vanilla that would fit the totally open space you're looking for dolphin. Did you hate Halls of Reflection in wrath? How about Shattered Halls in TBC?
undone jacinth
I’m not looking for a totally open space
maiden ravine
Not everything can be Plaguefall
deft sapphire
I’m not looking to do massive pulls, I just don’t wanna go through an entire dun...
I think plaguefall has a reasonable amount trash that you can choose to do or avoid but that’s probably the only one
undone jacinth
plaguefall isn’t open
yeah it has some options but they are almost all fake options
if you want pride every boss you go in a straight line
if you wanna kill a random skeleton stood on his own or a tentacle then you can do that but why would you
deft sapphire
I think that’s a more a fault of the prideful affix than the dungeon design
undone jacinth
the dungeons are designed around prideful
jolly thistle
You need to clear 4 boss areas in PF.
undone jacinth
yes..
and you get 20% on all if you go in a straight line and skip two packs total
jolly thistle
They make up for 70% of the trash maybe. There’s not much left to choose
waxen cradle
I have done Plaguefall the past 3 weeks as one of my keys to just get the maximum number of loot choices from the vault, and the only thing that changes is what order I pull things in to make sure the Pride buffs line up each time, I can pretty much tell you what path I will take every single Tyrannical or Fortified week to make sure I get the maximum use out of the buff.
undone jacinth
yeah I take same path every week because there’s not even trash you want pride for anyway
so you just get it for every boss
the only debate is whether you kill all the plagueborer area or half of it
waxen cradle
exactly
maiden ravine
and things may totally change with the 9.1 affix. I'm glad the dungeons work well with Prideful.
waxen cradle
So to even suggest or think for a second the dungeons are not 100% designed around the pride buffs is silly
maiden ravine
You don't need to rely on shroud or invis very often at all which is already better than BfA and Legion.
undone jacinth
yeah and in exchange you have to just run to a straight line to the end
and get RP fucking flown to different platforms
I hate that we can’t just run around
deft sapphire
I kind of like it as a class without natural stealth
waxen cradle
Yeah that is what I hate about Spires I feel SO MUCH time is wasted with there BS RP crap
undone jacinth
you’re literally being taken to packs and told hey kill this one then we’ll take you to another one
because you can’t be trusted to run through a dungeon
deft sapphire
Mdi players will always find something crazy to do anyway
maiden ravine
That seems like a weird thing to fixate on. How else were they to do a dungeon set in the air that's home to flying creatures normally. It was that or wind rides.
undone jacinth
well darkee quit mdi and said how shit the dungeon design was as one factor lol
deft sapphire
Well he’s one player
sterile moss
He quit this year’s mdi?
sterile moss
Dang
deft sapphire
I still think it’s fun to watch gingi and stuff do dungeons
maiden ravine
I'm having more fun in keys than I did in Legion or BfA
deft sapphire
I’ve had the opposite experience I’ve really enjoyed m+
I like the covenant aesthetics coming through in the dungeons
Not bored of them at all yet
undone jacinth
how high have you gone in keys
deft sapphire
15-16 on everything
undone jacinth
I’m not bored of the dungeon aesthetics, I really like mists and theater in particular, I just don’t find pushing as fun any more because the actual design of the dungeons sucks
jolly thistle
I don’t enjoy tanking/kiting atm. If things stay like this I’ll probably do a few weekly keys and play other games instead.
deft sapphire
I like doing dungeons either pushing for my level or as chill content to do weekly with my guildies
ionic fern
Doing dungeons as DPS is fun. 👀
deft sapphire
So what’s wrong with that
maiden ravine
I don't push keys for the sake of pushing. I need some sort of tangible rewards, be it gear or cosmetics.
The dungeons are fine for KSM
undone jacinth
I usually wanna push and not do 14s is what’s wrong for me. Now doing 19s or 20s is just... it’s just not fun at all
tanking literally every pack is stressful
and there’s just so little actual variation in routing etc
deft sapphire
Idk how that’s better than legion when I last pushed high keys
Pull a whole room double aoe stun and arms warrior nukes it for 20m dps
undone jacinth
the difference for me is I felt more in control then
maiden ravine
I felt the same way in BfA when the expectation was to pull as many packs as you could and pray the stuns would happen, I'm a lot less stressed now.
undone jacinth
it’s completely disproportionate
deft sapphire
Dps are exposed to tanks being shit all the time
undone jacinth
and it no longer matters how good you are
you pop your CDs and you fucking hope ur alive
then u run for ur life
deft sapphire
Now this is a completely different argument to before
That is about tank kiting meta and tank damage
undone jacinth
it’s not
deft sapphire
Not dungeons being on rails
undone jacinth
that was where this started
kiting meta
small packs requiring kiting
on rails
etc
they force you to tank one pack at a time then they put something in every pack that can kill you
like little random fucking goblins that wack you for 25% of your hp with a 0.5 cast and then just stick 5 of them in there
or a skeleton in a giant caster pack that randomly melee instant attacks you for 50%
deft sapphire
Clearly I’ve misunderstood because that’s not really the same issue as a “straight line” and no real choice in dungeon problem
undone jacinth
the problem is how rotten high keys feel, the factors include being on rails, pack design, dungeon structure etc
strong forum
the difference for me is I felt more in control then
Exactly
Tanks have extremely little control
Dungeons feel extremely similar
Pulls are tiny
No variation or fun stuff
deft sapphire
Well idk about the tank damage and kiting stuff but my point was I have no problem with linearity or lack of choice in dungeons you have
modern brook
Reward non existent
undone jacinth
yea didn’t even mention rewards
deft sapphire
Rewards are really shitty I’ll agree with that
modern brook
Imagine doing a 16 and getting less than heroic shreikwing lol
undone jacinth
imagine going over time by 5seconds on a 20 sanguine depths and getting one 210 blade dancer trinket for the entire group
deft sapphire
Well m+ was introduced with tf
So there was always the potential to get an upgrade
undone jacinth
it had higher ilvl even pre tf
strong forum
^
young glen
Tanking in m+ simply isn't rewarding
undone jacinth
this is both the lowest ilvl and no chance of upgrade
the only redeeming factor is that nobody in raid is getting loot either 😂
strong forum
Idk why im even raiding
deft sapphire
Well for tanks pvp loot with vers on it is bis rofl
strong forum
Like im wearing 4 pvp pieces, 1 raid piece, 1 boe, 5 weekly vault items and 3 m+ drops (rings and trinket)
undone jacinth
same except no pvp so I’m just screwed
jolly thistle
killing 14 bosses to get 2 weapon tokens for the whole raid seems good 
young glen
Correct me if I'm wrong, but pvp gear has always been sort of superior in early stages of a new expac. Just that this time around, there's an efficient gearing path attached to it as well.
undone jacinth
as if you actually get weapon tokens!
strong forum
Na shurriq
maiden ravine
PvP gearing didn't exist in legion and bfa really
deft sapphire
Pvp was worthless at the start of legion for gearing
undone jacinth
pvp gearing was garbage
deft sapphire
Idk about bfa
strong forum
Pvp gear was dead in bfa aswell apart from there being the weekly chest
So you had 2 weekly items
But random
1.8k was also only heroic weekly item
jolly thistle
I mean it was good because you’d get a extra chest
young glen
I mean stat wise
strong forum
BTW
young glen
not how to obtain it
strong forum
It was literally
About acquisition
It's not about stats
It's just because of ilvl
Stats don't matter
*not alot
For now
deft sapphire
Well because it’s deterministic you just see how fucked you get by every other loot roll in the game and guarantee yourself a high ilvl piece now with your weekly conq
strong forum
Current pvp gearing is really fucking good, it's the rest of the game that's bad
deft sapphire
But it’s done one good thing at least
strong forum
Unless you're literally a 10/10 raider already
signal plover
We decided to degen a bit last night and did boe trash farm for like 2 hours last night. Ended up with 7 pieces (and that's with wasting like 30 mins figuring out the most efficient way to reset)
deft sapphire
This is by far the most I’ve seen raiders pvp
undone jacinth
if you’re 10/10 already you are almost certainly doing pvp anyway
strong forum
Also this
signal plover
I just hope they bring the other systems up to pvp level
Rather than the other direction
undone jacinth
ion said that’s what they want to do
young glen
[Insert random currency here]
maiden ravine
We'll likely see justice and valor come back in 9.1 and possibly see end of dungeon loot remove from m+
signal plover
(this seemed to be the indication in the latest ionterview)
deft sapphire
He just said there is a problem with pve loot
signal plover
It was a super vague reference in the pc gamer interview last week
deft sapphire
He didnt say they were gonna do that
maiden ravine
He said the team was happy with pvp gearing and wants to improve pve loot
signal plover
^
shell fox
thanks god.
shell fox
perfect.
undone jacinth
currency just makes sense
deft sapphire
I mean it’s blizz
undone jacinth
we already had it last expac
maiden ravine
Basically they saw engagement plummet when loot was slowed down to fit their timeline so they're giving in
undone jacinth
there was no need to take it away
deft sapphire
They might just give you one more piece at the end of a dungeon and call it a day rofl
jolly thistle
yeah we’ll get it with 9.2.5
signal plover
Nah I think it'll be a currency for m+ and maybe bonus rolls for raids
shell fox
2 not timed
undone jacinth
they added currency first patch BFA I don’t see why they wouldn’t do the same now
ionic fern
Yes, gimme that currency so i can buy a 220+ hakkar.
shell fox
lol
maiden ravine
I don't think raids need bonus rolls if they drop valor
signal plover
I could see em doing covenant vendors with a pve currency that let you target loot from the dungeons associated with the covenant
shell fox
we dont need bonus rolls anymore
strong forum
That's a weird move
maiden ravine
Imagine all tanks going night fae until they buy a max ilvl scale each season haha
jolly thistle
I could see em doing covenant vendors with a pve currency that let you target lo...
brb switching to NF
signal plover
Not in sanctums lol
In oribos
The NPCs are alrdy there
Not locking em behind covenants
Just breaking up the loot a bit
ionic fern
I think they latched onto the "buy loot from the dungeons associated with the covenant"...NF=De Other side = Hakkar trinket.
signal plover
Or they do RNG slot tokens
jolly thistle
But where’s the meaningful decision?
signal plover
I'm just saying they can't put all the loot from dungeons and raids onto one vendor
ionic fern
The only meaningful decision in WoW is which transmog set to use.
deft sapphire
I’ll farm tokens for that shit
I had a relinquished titanforged arcanocrystal in legion
signal plover
And they most likely won't do currency for exact piece
sweet summit
maiden ravine
Depends if they cap valor or not as stringently as the did conquest. Would suck saving 4 weeks of a currency and not get the weapon you want
sweet summit
🙏
young glen
I know I will be disappointing in 24 hours from now
undone jacinth
And they most likely won't do currency for exact piece
You just have the currency buy ilvl upgrade tokens that you can apply to any dungeon item
undone jacinth
233 scale is gonna be crazy
signal plover
That sounds too good for blizz to do
strong forum
Eh idk if that's a good move, only weppys and last bosses trinkets
undone jacinth
maybe the upgrade token only upgrades it one upgrade tier so that you have to farm the highest ilvl version to save time idk
strong forum
Is good enough, upgrading every trinket to 233 is kinda cringe
maiden ravine
My only worries about a currency system in m+ like PvP is that chain running 2-5s would become the meta
undone jacinth
would it really though
strong forum
Depends on amount of currency and tiers
signal plover
Every time blizz indicates they're gonna do something like this I immediately go hmmmm, where are they gonna fuck us so that we have to keep slamming hours into the game
undone jacinth
I mean how long is it realistically gonna take you to get an item that you’re targeting
maiden ravine
I already grind my honor/conquest in brackets that aren't my highest
undone jacinth
unless it’s a shield or weapon
strong forum
+5-10 +10-12 +12-14 +15
undone jacinth
exactly you already do it in pvp so there’s no issue
signal plover
In before stygia is the currency LOL
undone jacinth
yeah and have keys above 15 give more currency so that people doing high keys actually feel like they have something from it
undone jacinth
yeah
signal plover
They'll never do that
maiden ravine
I don't like the idea that once I unlock a reward tier that I never have to do it again to keep getting loot that level, that's my only concern
strong forum
Would be good though...
signal plover
They'll never let m+ give you loot equal to M end boss
strong forum
Not spammable
undone jacinth
that’s exactly what happens in pvp though Kyle
strong forum
^ true
signal plover
(although they did it in pvp hmmm)
maiden ravine
I know, and it's probably the biggest weakness
undone jacinth
they said they are happy with pvp and pvpers have better weapons than mythic raiders
so they gotta do something
maiden ravine
Very few people have 2400 rating
strong forum
Exactly
That's the point
If I pushed to 2.4k rn
I could have my sweet 233 shield right the fuck now
And be an (for SL standards) immortal God
undone jacinth
I bet you there’s more players that are 2100 than there are mythic weapon drops lol
signal plover
I'm curious how the numbers compare in reality tbh. Like how many pvp 233 weapons exist compared to pve ones
undone jacinth
how many guilds are even 10m now
signal plover
That'd be the way I'd lean too
undone jacinth
the difference will be massive
strong forum
Like 33
undone jacinth
oh really
strong forum
Guilds are 10/10
undone jacinth
that’s high
signal plover
Oh wow ok so that'd be a massive difference
signal plover
2400 in RBGs is not easy, but it's also guaranteed weapons immediately when u hit the rating and have the conq
strong forum
Si
signal plover
Well...have the honor rly
maiden ravine
It's a hard mythic tier and that's probably fine.
strong forum
2400 rbg is easier than 2s/3s
signal plover
Ya
strong forum
Immensely easier
signal plover
Unless pally kek
strong forum
Cuz in rbg you can just pve them into the floor
Need a bit of strategy and then just outgear them
undone jacinth
I need to start rbgs
strong forum
I should too..
maiden ravine
I've only made 1800 in rbgs, need to push this week but no rush since I got a 226 out of my vault two weeks after buying a conquest weapon
undone jacinth
It’s a better use of my time than m+ and that’s sad
maiden ravine
I enjoy doing a variety of content and being rewarded for doing m+ and pvp
signal plover
I could also see em dropping the top end vault req for m+ to like 7
strong forum
Wha
signal plover
10 is just insane unless you don't rly raid
signal plover
Ya
undone jacinth
I think 10 only feels high because of how unfun keys are
maiden ravine
To be fair, I don't think they intended most people to grind out 3 options in m+ and pvp
undone jacinth
last expac I’d have easily chomped through that
signal plover
You can't rly slam your way through em yeh
strong forum
SL, the expansion where you wear nothing but weekly vault loot and pvp gear
Vs
Bfa where you only wore m+ and raid pieces
maiden ravine
Raiding they are limited by the size of the raid
strong forum
young glen
I'm just not good enough at PvP to push further than my current rating :/
signal plover
I mean in a way I'm glad that there's so many productive ways to spend time in game
strong forum
I cba pushing to 2.1k rn, my weapon sucks too
undone jacinth
raiding is also a joke, fully clear hc and only get 213 options, but do some 14s and get 226 options when they only drop 210s, makes no sense
maiden ravine
I'm thankful the weekly vault is almost certain to be an upgrade. Much better than chest of sadness
signal plover
Technically u can get 220 options if u clear HC but the point remains
Vault is honestly an excellent system for the first iteration of it
undone jacinth
maybe they shoulda made it one M boss at first tier
at the moment 3 mythic bosses is the equivalent of one +14, kinda scuffed
signal plover
I think they probably erred to the side of caution on that one.
The third choice in any of the 3 rows seems to me to be intended for someone that spends time exclusively in that content
maiden ravine
If it was one boss there'd be so many 1 boss and done pugs
sharp sun
Is it just me or does Torghast SoulForges absolutely suck without much healing... 🤣
sweet summit
VR mate
undone jacinth
If it was one boss there'd be so many 1 boss and done pugs
More than there are +14 pugs? Don’t think so
maiden ravine
Is it just me or does Torghast SoulForges absolutely suck without much healing.....
Floor 3, buy a ravenous cell and use on a caster
65% damage reduction to all fire damage
sharp sun
These are the gems I come here for
@sweet summit was using VR and IV talent also but didnt know about the orb interaction 😄
Made it to the F4 L8 boss and died lol, i'll try with fire reduction as that would've made that boss toast..
ionic fern
Are people still doing Torghast weekly? 👀
sweet summit
Yep
sharp sun
I swapped to the party late
ionic fern
o.o
sharp sun
Only got a T2 legendary
ionic fern
I haven't been doing them for a while now
sharp sun
atm
sweet summit
Need more legendaries
ionic fern
😂
modern brook
whatabout unhinged for pvp so you can actually get gear
maiden ravine
I need more options on my druid. I still want a kitty legendary and need to upgrade my balance one
sharp sun
I was playing rogue and then decided 2021 should be the year I learn to tank :3
deft bridge
I was playing rogue and then decided 2021 should be the year I learn to tank :3
rogues are basically the same as prot warrior
sweet summit
whatabout unhinged for pvp so you can actually get gear
Thats exactly my plan 
modern brook
yeah tey're both trash :^)
ionic fern
whatabout unhinged for pvp so you can actually get gear
I will never-ever do PvP.
deft bridge
yeah tey're both trash :^)
crying time
signal plover
Floor 3, buy a ravenous cell and use on a caster
Do any casters work?
ionic fern
Don't care if all the gear is from there.
modern brook
I will never-ever do PvP.
Mwahi outing himself as 180 😦
modern brook
lol
sharp sun
rogues are basically the same as prot warrior
I mean they do have a pointy object for a weapon ja
ionic fern
I don't enjoy PvP..like at all.
And it's a game..so i do the things i enjoy.
Which is pretty much limited to m+.
😂
And some raiding i guess.
deft sapphire
Raiding enjoyment is far more dependent on guild than the state of the game for me
ionic fern
Same for m+.
deft sapphire
M+ only gotta find 4 others though
sweet summit
Im still waiting for those rogue lessons @modern brook 🥺
outer solstice
@ionic fern yeah still doing thorghast, I want both slots of the wall, a fury leggo on 4 thunderlord boots and signet on 4 and also the kyrian legendary
deft sapphire
That’s why you gotta assemble the perfect team
modern brook
Im still waiting for those rogue lessons <@204081428869283843> 🥺
p sure i gave them already
deft bridge
That’s why you gotta assemble the perfect team
i can't find people who focus worms on +9 nw
outer solstice
btw is hymnal still broken?
sweet summit
I dont want to delete it
modern brook
SMH
deft sapphire
Make a say macro
modern brook
rebind every key to cheapshot gouge and kidney
deft sapphire
That spams KILL WORMS in chat
modern brook
still out damage some 2 head fucking mage
deft bridge
That spams KILL WORMS in chat
"shit tank stop spamming"
ionic fern
i can't find people who focus worms on +9 nw
Don't worry, people don't focus worms on a +16 either.
deft sapphire
Works like a charm
ionic fern
Every time we go on the boss "ok please focus adds first".
deft sapphire
Don't worry, people don't focus worms on a +16 either.
Gotta maximise boss damage by only passively cleaving adds
sweet summit
I actually took some time to set up auto marker and its working like a charm
ionic fern
First adds..every explosion goes off-.
deft bridge
that's the worst
deft bridge
"should've gotten the orbs in melee reeee"
deft sapphire
Explosives are a healer mechanic now
ionic fern
I mean i have the boss near the worms for the cleave.
deft bridge
i literally have to use every gcd not to die wtf
deft sapphire
Kite then away so the boomies have time to kill them with only dots
sweet summit
@ionic fern can you tell ion to make it so explosives proc vr again
deft sapphire
Before they reach the fixate target
modern brook
<@238357283996696576> can you tell ion to make it so explosives proc vr again
the dream
ionic fern
I think you're missing the point MGLL.
The vast majority of DPS seem to not have a clue that they actually have to KILL the worms.
ionic fern
<@238357283996696576> can you tell ion to make it so explosives proc vr again
Aight, i'll send him a DM.
sweet summit
Cheers mate
deft sapphire
Lol it’s k if they don’t understand that you aren’t gonna have a good time on second boss
deft bridge
unpopular opinion: if the group is like that i just fkn up and leave
ionic fern
I do enjoy explosives not having any HP tho.
deft sapphire
In legion you could mortal strike an explosive and that fucker would live
undone jacinth
it’s super nice on Druid just moonfiring them
ionic fern
I healed as resto druid and all i did was moonfire every one of them.
Pretty sure i took all the explosives.
😂
deft sapphire
Heroic throw that shit
jolly thistle
did the same and then died to the interruptible cast because smol brain
undone jacinth
yea is a mad fight for a tank if you have to do explosives
outer solstice
btw,.... is hmynal still broken OP?
sweet summit
Ya
outer solstice
worth using a 168 over 213 spike?
strong forum
For dmg yes
deft bridge
throw is just worse sadly
throw has a cooldown, so it's literally impossible to get all on certain places ;-;
outer solstice
lol ok gonna pump some hc then xD
deft bridge
HoA is awful
jolly thistle
No cd on prot