#protection
brave jetty
Has anyone ever had Mistcaller guessing game bug during the fight?
There were at least 2 of each of the 3 properties on the guessing game
dusky mica
sounds like someone in your team is making shit up
brave jetty
I saw it with my own eyes and am 100% sure
dusky mica
I'll get back you when it happens
chilly brook
They're not that crazy fast
Really it's mostly shifting rage away from IP and dum,ping into revenge
turbid lintel
Im a venthyr prot warrior that mostly raid tanks.... is Draven the best or should I still be going with Nadija?
grizzled forge
can you get more than 3 renown in a day during catch up? ive done like 3 battle grounds and 3 dungeons with no renown after the intial 3 i got
chilly brook
Im a venthyr prot warrior that mostly raid tanks.... is Draven the best or shoul...
probably stick with Nad
uncut jasper
Grats
oblique garnet
🤔mythic?
calm hollow
Cap for vers/haste? Percentage
thorn nymph
How are you guys doing in Mythic+ Right now I feel like Im having a very hard time holding threat in 8-10 keys. It feels hard to spent rage on threat when you also see your HP just getting totally destroyed. I’m not playing with Ravager is it that big of a deal or?
tight flint
sick sentinel
i tried to do 8 spires, but alot of things were going wrong, and i got to part where there is 2 pats on stairs and you gotta pull them seperate
well, there is a trick to doing that correctly so that you get etiher group your choosing , but i can't seem to execute it
silver trout
gotta wait a little bit and pull em WAY down or blow cooldowns and get them all then nuke
chilly brook
🤔mythic?
No 😦
dark lark
lol, annoying thing about denathrius: when you try to back pedal or strafe through the mirror, you come out of the other side facing outward. so if you hold the key for backpeddle/strafe you're just going to go the wrong direction
sonic lichen
I wanna main prot tank for m+ is it really as bad as people say? I just wanna do up to 15 keys
modern brook
midnight oar
people are stupid
I know, im people
also prot can 2hand now, go out and conquer those keys warriors
snow pagoda
Does into the frays haste % effect DR at all?
sonic lichen
thanks guys, i just wanted to be able to play not worry about being the best class lol plus i wanna arms pvp
versed wasp
is prot relatively easy to pick up?
my experience with tanking kinda limited but wanted to try my hand with it to gear fast and help friends when we dont have a tank for keys
dense flame
I think your experience with tanking will be more of the learning curve than prots mechanics.
Prot isn’t difficult to pick up
Rage management, where to use defensive, and get a feeling of your own tankiness
versed wasp
ive played vengeance DH in bfa and ive done high keys as rogue dps so roughly know the routes and what mobs will explode me
well "high" meaning 10-14
i saw above that you can use a 2h instead of 1h so that should help with gearing as well so i dont have to hunt for a good 1h
sick sentinel
what do you mean prot can 2h now
lusty marsh
sick sentinel
somebody trolling about using a 2hander weapon as prot or maybe xmog i dunno
versed wasp
what do you mean prot can 2h now
i saw a post like 6 messages up saying prot can use 2h weapons now as well
is that just a meme?
solemn magnet
sweet summit
Does into the frays haste % effect DR at all?
No
worn bear
people figured out how to mog strom'kar & bladebreaker on a 1h so they're memeing
ocean bloom
but what if we could use twohander + shield that would be pog
sick sentinel
how about heres an idea
put MDT on mobile
then you can reference it from ipad and see what packs coming up cc they immune to
undone jacinth
You can use keystone guru on mobile
undone jacinth
it’s easy just go for parses in content nobody else is xd
chilly brook
98% KT clear 😮
KT?
open monolith
kael thas
chilly brook
Ah
I have a 99 still dont know how
Or are you talkin mythic?
Cuz I'm a sad boi and only have shriek on mythic
98 tho 
fringe marten
I will never have a parse on sunking...I'm the guy taking executioner off to the side so they can heal the fight to death faster.
fringe marten
? can you just not hit it? I guess it's like trying not to hit revenge when you're trying to break pots in torghast to stack up...eventually I hit revenge =\
blazing depot
both are good right?
fringe marten
If you're going to be a raid tank, and do real progression...I think you have to go kyrian. It still provides more frequenty utility/dps than Fae in M+ but not stronger burst when everything is available...If you really only care about M+ Fae is maybe slightly better.
blazing depot
okie NF it will be i dont like throwing stuff on ground
chilly brook
Tbh for raid it doesnt feel like it matters all that much between Kyrian/NF/Venthyr
fringe marten
The phial removes half the raid mechanics in Nathria, removes necrotic, and other abilities in M+...it's super clutch in raids.
fringe marten
Parse mechanic...don't tank swap on some fights...sit and smash.
Make fight smoother/easier for raid..your job.
chilly brook
It was rarely a difference maker on any of the fights
blazing depot
so the phial is good ?
chilly brook
Maybe the transition from first to second dog on huntsboi
But it's not even close to as valuable as people like to make it out to be tbh
chilly brook
so the phial is good ?
The phial is good yes
fringe marten
If you're alliance and you go Dwarf/Kyrian...and then raid tank as anything else...you will feel like you have no tools to protect yourself from mechanics...or ways to dictate when you tank swap on some fights.
chilly brook
I mean you tank swap regardless
fringe marten
No, no i don't.
chilly brook
And phial is only useful once in the fight
fringe marten
wrong
blazing depot
but i dont do raids
chilly brook
but i dont do raids
Play either fae or Kyrian it's up to you they're both good, phial will not make or break your runs
fringe marten
As dwarf kyrian I don't tank swap on Huntsman, Legion generals, I can hold for infininite cycles on mythic shriek if I wanted (hold the cure for if you 'need' it) the dwarf OR phial cures the bleeds from Sires blade (when people pass it through you) also cures one of the other effects on the fight?
blazing depot
do i buy them?
fringe marten
There's more it cures but I don't lean on it in too many fights any more.
And I don't swap on mythic huntsman either.
chilly brook
fringe marten
You can single tank shriek in fact...I may suggest that next week.
AH the crap in sunking.
yeah it's not dangerous so..don't care about it.
but yeah that gargoyle bleed.
fringe marten
Not before the reflect change.
chilly brook
Have to swap
fringe marten
? yeah you have to swap on tons of fights man
I'm just saying there's some where it allows you not to
2 of them
chilly brook
SLG have to swap
open monolith
@blazing depot you don't buy them. You summon your steward, who gives you a potion with 3 charges.
fringe marten
2/10...20% of the raid. (and that's post nerf, in beta it was like..80%) the point is, if you are a raid tank..it matters.
chilly brook
And unless you're killing Mythic Shriek in 2 minutes you're not solo tanking him
fringe marten
Why ?
chilly brook
It doesn't matter
fringe marten
The bleed doesn't stack..you just have to not take 'too' m uch damage in the first 5~ ticks
chilly brook
Because you dont have enough uses of your stoneform or pot to clear the shit
fringe marten
you don't need it
chilly brook
You dont have 100% uptime of your block chief
fringe marten
you only need it if you get LOW because you get smacked..and need to clear.
dude due to aggro I've held shrieks bleed almost the entire fight
If you start to overthreat the other tank, he will 'tank' shriek but the bat will put the bleed on you
open monolith
Yeah but why would you wanna tank Shriekwing? Real men taunt just for the debuff and let the other tank taunt back so you can just press Revenge
fringe marten
and shrieks melee is laughable
chilly brook
Yes but....
That's the thing
You get the debuff
But not the melees lmao
So it doesnt matter
fringe marten
you can single tank shriek is what i'm telling you.
You don't have shield wall or something useful up for half of a bleed stack? just call for an external
and you only have to do it for 1 cycle..then you'll refresh most of your cd's and a couple externals.
however: you can't single tank him because of being kyrian or dwarf or anything.
you can single tank him because he's just not that bad, and his mechanics don't overlap/stack.
fringe marten
It does if you get low, are in danger of dying..you can delete it.
so you can be healed.
You telling me you've never done mythic shriek, and during progression or whatever been holding him through a bleed cycle, or because you over threated the other tank and thought "oh? I guess it's not that bad...I'm tanking him WITH the bleed and he's still not hurting me that much?"
chilly brook
Kyrian pot is just straight overvalued
No
I dont overthreat my cotank
Hes a paladin
fringe marten
Then he's holding back for you.
silk gull
Hi guys, I'm new to tanking in shadowlands and wanted to roll a prot war. Just wondering if you guys find it easy to be invited into groups? Read on reddit that some prot wars are having trouble there.
fringe marten
my cotank is bear; so I out dps him often on single target.
The kyrian cov also adds a root/tether on a small area..it's your main dps ability but also has that utility. The Fae cov's ability knocks mobs down..but it's also on double the timer.
chilly brook
Me ripping threat isn't an issue
chilly brook
Hi guys, I'm new to tanking in shadowlands and wanted to roll a prot war. Just w...
It can be an issue getting into groups, dont have any issue doing content comfortably though
But community perception is mostly to blame
lime lake
anyone getting one-shotted by Raging mob in M+?
fringe marten
That window should kind of give you insight into prot warrior situation atm too...
chilly brook
I've found Ancient Aftershock to be far more useful in m+ than spear
fringe marten
Orange parsing prot war, 98%....purple parsing paladin 91%...230 dps above him.
chilly brook
I dont need to root things to get away
fringe marten
...be the same thing with a DH too. They just do more damage.
chilly brook
And I'm not saving my spear to stop adds
fringe marten
No you don't, but it's added utility. There's never a reason not to have more tools in the belt.
me either; but it's lined up nicely at times.
chilly brook
Utility that wont be used as utility 98.5% of the time
sick echo
mann i'm so torn between thunder lord and the wall
chilly brook
So its moot
Literally stopping casts period for 10 seconds at a time is far more valuable tbh
In keys
fringe marten
You've found ancient aftershock better because it hits a football field, knocks things down...and does more damage but on a longer cd.
Yes..hence why I even agreed, if your ONLY FOCUS is M+, night fae is strong.
chilly brook
They're both good options roughly equal in both content
worn bear
AA isn’t even much longer with the conduit
fringe marten
We are a mythic raid guild; our goal is cutting edge..I will be tanking mythic everything in raids...I HAVE to spec for raid viability.
fringe marten
And when raid viability is the bigger consideration; I believe kyrian is the better choice.
chilly brook
Youd be playing DH
chilly brook
You're approaching it like you are
lime lake
mann i'm so torn between thunder lord and the wall
im checking the prot raiderIO list and they use different leggos too, i guess there is no wrong answer between the two
chilly brook
Because you're basically losing almost nothing by going fae
sick echo
im checking the prot raiderIO list and they use different leggos too, i guess th...
I've heard thunderlord is great for m+ but only so
worn bear
mwahi posted a real nice sheet in the pins if that helps
sweet summit
Both are solid options, thunderlord ismore damage and bursts of rage, wall is more consistent rage
sick echo
what are you guys running?
brisk flax
Anyone know if Phial and decanter overlap?
chilly brook
Wall because raid
brisk flax
or if they conflict
chilly brook
But I just crafted my TL rank 1
sweet summit
Using wall
sick echo
seems like everyones using wall 🤔
jagged pier
the wall
sweet summit
@brisk flax idk what you mean but there are no problems using two passive trinkets
chilly brook
If phial was nearly as good as it was hyped up to be everyone would have just rerolled Alliance for the WFR and look how that turned out
brisk flax
idk sometimes trinkets act weird together, so figured id ask to be sure if anyone knew of any conflictt
fringe marten
Currylaksa an Drunknduncan what you're seeing in raider io is a handful of people that play DPS specs, focus on Raid tanking, or Focus on M+...all of them use different legendaries, covenant path conduits..etc. There's some similarity between them sometimes. But the BIG takeaway is this, knowing HOW to tank M+, the route to pull to not get packs you don't want to deal with, and then how to play your tank CLASS properly is more important than any of the other borrowed power choices.
chilly brook
Specifically for raid
sweet summit
Dont have a lot of soul ash rn so i just made the most versatile one 🤷
jagged pier
and alot of us are running the wall because we raid and m+ where its good for both or just perfer the wall of TL in m+ its a preference more than anything
sick echo
Dont have a lot of soul ash rn so i just made the most versatile one 🤷
that's where i'm at too 🤔
brisk flax
im thinking about trying the two on Council
seeing as how boss is out for long periods without reset
chilly brook
TL might actually be dope on council
Just because you can consistently hit at least 2 targets
brisk flax
TL?
chilly brook
If not 3
sweet summit
Thunderlord
chilly brook
Thunderlord
lime lake
im TL because i don't have a raid group
fringe marten
If I had a mythic'ish shoulder, AND rank 4 thunder lord boots; I would likely run that combo in M+ but because I have rank 4 wall shoulders, and mythic shriek boots...I just lose a lot of Ilevel/stats to put on Tlord and it's gains aren't that great. I suspect most other prot warriors who raid tank are in the same boat.
My Tlord boots are rank 2..and I don't even know if I wanna keep dumping into them..? I guess I will.
fringe marten
Yeah I've used them, ran a handful of keys with both setups.
sweet summit
?
undone jacinth
that didn’t last long
chilly brook
oh so we’re back to making up stats
No that was the quote from Mwahi
sick echo
1 for wall 2 for tl
sweet summit
/roll 2
undone jacinth
Okay lol
fringe marten
Because I go from a 235 shoulder/226 boot. to 203 shoulder, 210 boot... whatever gains you get from the Thunderlord effect is mitigated down by the sheer loss in stats.
chilly brook
ionic fern
Ugh
chilly brook
Feel free to argue with Mwahi hes right here
lime lake
blood spattered scale is BIS?
fringe marten
Of course it factors in; if it's not substantial enough for me to readily notice on a zonewide, I don't care.
sweet summit
Defensively aye
undone jacinth
don’t need to argue, all that needs to happen is u post the maths that have been done
like u said
sweet summit
chilly brook
Idk why you're making this a personal vendetta
undone jacinth
oki @ionic fern can you post the TL maths that Matt says you have
jagged pier
right gents I got a choice 213 belt - 226 belt or 200 decanter - 220 heraldry? also have 220 legs -226 but dont think its a bigger upgrade than the other too honestly im leaning trinket thoughts?
undone jacinth
what’s the belt and legs stats
chilly brook
right gents I got a choice 213 belt - 226 belt or 200 decanter - 220 heraldry? a...
Either belt or heraldry imo
jagged pier
the belt is haste mastery but it has less haste than my current belt
so its only really the ilvl upgrade
but we already have like 5 or 6 trinkets in the team
sweet summit
"Only" 13 ilvls 🥺
fringe marten
After I ran a couple keys with both setups, I decided I wouldn't revivist it until I had equivalent gear in both slots.
undone jacinth
what’s the leg stats?
jagged pier
I mean the legs is a 6 ilvl upgrade not really worth
fringe marten
Don't need to see math to know what Tlord does and that it would be more dps, it's just not that impressive.
undone jacinth
it’s not about the upgrade
it’s about whether u are ever going to replace it
if ur never gonna replace it it’s worth over upgrade
because that’s one less slot u need to fill
undone jacinth
u will replace 220 heraldry
if ur raiding m and doing high keys
and if the legs have bad stats you will replace them too
fringe marten
? for the sake of dps like a 207 Putrefaction does more than heraldry does it not? (@220) and for keys you'd be using the blood scale nearly always?
undone jacinth
you will though is the point
undone jacinth
well then it’s different
fringe marten
I have a 184 blood scale..and still consider using it over my 220 heraldry sometimes.. There are times where that on demand shield matters a ton for a pack.
fringe marten
then nah...the heraldry is superior dps for raiding, you don't even need to consider defensive utility for most of these raid encounters.
jagged pier
ill just choose later
undone jacinth
yeah see if you get an upgrade this week maybe
not sure which bosses drop belt and legs
fringe marten
I got my 223 legs from my vault; I don't know how well itemized the plate legs in raid are? I actually will go look.
jagged pier
not very
fringe marten
yyyikes.
undone jacinth
Wow they are bad
undone jacinth
surely if your box legs have haste they are the pick every day
lime lake
are you guys focusing Haste Vers?
fringe marten
I KNEW there was a reason I never put on legs from raid...plus..I never got any LOL.
chilly brook
are you guys focusing Haste Vers?
If I can get it yes
Ilvl is more important though
lime lake
true true
fringe marten
yeah last week I got 223 of the galvanized oxxein legs..? what are those from Plaguefall?
my 'best' choice this week..was heroic sire helm. =\ the best thing in my M+ row was 223 Quantum Device...? /sigh. the box is getting to that point.. where I'm hunting like specific slots/items.
lime lake
one last noobie question from me, do you guys take the time to learn about various DPS class damage profiles and CD's? I got chewed out by DPSers in M+ for not pulling around their CD's.
undone jacinth
yeah
undone jacinth
easiest way is just to use omnicd or zen tracker to see them
but having a basic understanding of how they work is ideal
chilly brook
Wont matter in general pugs, when you want to actually push keys it does make a difference
Getting the most out of their CDs and yours will save you a lot of time
fringe marten
Griff you have zentracker set up in groups? I went to set it up the other day and it was putting their icons behind my group frames? said Fk it and re disabled it.
chilly brook
I dont have mine setup for anything other than interrupts atm
lime lake
yeah i installed omnicd and zen but for some reason they don't line up nicely with my grid2
fringe marten
I just want something small, similar to the interrupt tracker. was really hoping I could put cd's into interrupt tracker, and it'd be gucci.
jagged pier
exorsus
undone jacinth
omnicd has an interrupt tracker
as well as everything else
and the ui is very good
fringe marten
hm.will have to check it out.
are you opening exrt to look at peoples cd's in keys?
undone jacinth
no
fringe marten
(jakey)
undone jacinth
ert can display them on screen but it’s ugly and clunky
fringe marten
ah..I've never tried to use any of exrt's raid functions; just had raid lead use it to push out notes and draw stuff
chilly brook
I really need to track healer CDs
My DPS are usually pretty good at telling me they want big pulls
jagged pier
you dont use exsorsus to track externals?
fringe marten
Legit every fire mage now has a friggin' macro to tell you their combust is ready.. too bad everyone else's big cd isn't 1 minute.
chilly brook
you dont use exsorsus to track externals?
Never been bothered to
worldly nest
Can You guys can help me which one choose?
jagged pier
I ment more for raiding
fringe marten
oh lord..don't take the blade dancers patch
As long as that ring is an upgrade..take that.
it looks like stitchflesh signet, which is a really good ring
chilly brook
Yea you basically have one option lol
fringe marten
That blade dancers patch is mongo trash.
If it's effect was permanent...I still don't think it'd be good.
undone jacinth
there’s somebody out there that had that same choice and took the trinket
worldly nest
hah, ok 😄
undone jacinth
leeeeech
chilly brook
gg got the best stat in the game
I wish I had a 226 weapon
strong forum
LEEECH
chilly brook
At least I got a 226 haste/mastery helmet with a hole in it
fringe marten
I am forced to be content with my 207 weapon.
lime lake
well there is always getting weapon thru PvP ...
empty sedge
guys, I kinda want to reroll from feral druid to prot warrior coz my friends need a tank, and we like to do smooth +10 , +12 and +15 content... ill be ok going prot warr? I dont like druid tanks and always wanted to play warr coz I know ill have fun
chilly brook
You under estimate how shit I am at pvp
undone jacinth
it will depend more on ur skill than it will on ur class @empty sedge
u will be fine on any tank
fringe marten
You overestimate my desire to pvp. If I could be GUARANTEED to get the 233 pvp weapon, if I pvp'd all week...I still probably wouldn't.
chilly brook
guys, I kinda want to reroll from feral druid to prot warrior coz my friends nee...
Refer to clip I posted above
fringe marten
Because I don't play anything other than prot; prot warrior has nearly no place in pvp.
fringe marten
I would only play BG's if for some reason I auto DDOS'd everyone in the bg... it's the only way I would gain fun from it.
fringe marten
Even if we're winning..I really don't enjoy any form of pvp in this game. I don't really understand why I dislike it so much? I might do enough just to get the 2 legendaries from it so I have 'all' the legendary memories.
strong forum
depends on the enemy
if its superfaceroll pvp isnt as fun
if the enemy isnt terrible winning is fun
fringe marten
What's weird is that I started the game TO pvp. I played Everquest 2 and a buddy of mine got me to get WoW so we could do 2v2 arena when BC launched as warrior/shaman (horde). At some point I tanked some dungeons/etc so we could get gear...then after stopping and resubbing way later I just went prot.
lime lake
i have carebear friends who hate PvP but doing it because it happens to be the best gear source and they wanna help the raid
undone jacinth
we living out here
fringe marten
Well there ya' go..take your trinket and be happy for a couple seconds.
undone jacinth
happy is all I am
fringe marten
Then go back to the fact that you could be doing literally anything FAR more beneficial with your life if you just stopped pouring time into this trash game.
young glen
Gluttonous Spike sounds like trash
undone jacinth
wow jesus lmao
young glen
Is it trash?
ionic fern
oki <@238357283996696576> can you post the TL maths that Matt says you have
What math are you even looking for? 🤔
It's a 45s base CD spell with a 8 sec duration.
With TL hitting 3 enemies you get the CD down to like..23s
undone jacinth
u ok dude?
fringe marten
But I don't want to better myself..so here I am, getting souls in the maw for this weekly quest.
limber temple
3 Trinkets in my vault this morning.
Glut Spike
Viscera of Coal Hatred
Macabre sheet Music
Gief Scale ffs.
lime lake
damn why won't zentracker or omnicd play nicely with my grid2, should i use diff party frames instead
chilly brook
Its damage?
fringe marten
Shurriq, it's a good trinket but it exists in a world where trinkets better suited for 'either' of it's functions exist.
chilly brook
Passive damage
fringe marten
You can get better healing trinkets, you can get better damage trinkets...and better in substantial amounts.
humble pebble
hey guys, quick question: ring with BiS stats > 223 trinket or not?
fringe marten
Yeah; but it is pretty good. The sad thing is you don't get it's better damage effect too much in real content.
limber temple
Current trinkets are ilvl 200 of Heart of Al'ar and Glut Spike.
Vaults are 13ilvl higher
humble pebble
ty for confirmation @chilly brook
fringe marten
But also remember you can have both damage effects going at once (both the proc and the larger AoE pulse)
limber temple
Might replace my ilvl 200 Heart of Alar with this
young glen
But also remember you can have both damage effects going at once (both the proc ...
Yes. But for high keys I'd rather have the guaranteed absorb of Sanguine Vintage
lime lake
i guess crit is our worst stat huh
jagged pier
mastery
fringe marten
Shurriq, that's the point...the gluttonous spike is good, but not as good for the purpose you want..as other trinkets.
limber temple
Any thoughts on Viscera of Coalesced Hatred. Worth picking over spike?
fringe marten
no way, it's worse in every way
I have a 207 viscera and 213 spike and the 207 viscera is so bad by comparison
chilly brook
I need to spam SoA for the haste trinket
limber temple
Ive done that all week.
fringe marten
have a 200 of it, had a 220 option for it in vault 2 weeks ago. Didn't take it..and still wouldn't be using it even if I did.
limber temple
In fact since last reset my last upgrade was the vault.
Anything else has been trash or anima.
ionic fern
And ofc i get boots from my vault on warrior.
Smh, gimme my hakkar.,
fringe marten
got a 207 phial of putrefaction and for damage purposes it's too good; I use that and stone legion.. nothing I currently have sims better.
sharp crescent
:(
chilly brook
I got a haste mastery neck today from raid, oh and the haste trinket from council
But I really can't be fucked to run two on use trinkets
lime lake
im not sure can get value from the SOA haste trinket if kiting a lot in M+
chilly brook
its not a good trinket
Not even using it anyways
undone jacinth
What math are you even looking for? 🤔
It's a 45s base CD spell with a 8 sec dur...
Yeah 45s CD, TC has 4.5second CD with 33% haste, meaning you get just over half the CD the time with perfect GCDs and perfect scenario (3 target)... that means it's never double in practice. Double is just over the theoretical maximum. It's then not close on single/double targets, it's not close when stuff is dying and you also get no benefit when it would naturally cooldown out of combat/in transition/when kiting
chilly brook
I have a 220 scale
fringe marten
The only thing that gets replaced is the 220 stone legions with blood spattered scale if the key is nasty enough..
chilly brook
im not sure can get value from the SOA haste trinket if kiting a lot in M+
Tbh rarely have to kite
fringe marten
Did burning man have a new quest this week?
young glen
I am still running my gladiator trinket lol
ionic fern
Yeah 45s CD, TC has 4.5second CD with 33% haste, meaning you get just over half ...
I mean if you want to go into details/variables then sure, we can nitpick on literally everything
undone jacinth
it's not details and variables
ionic fern
Ok, what has to be the "perfect scenario"?
3 targets? Check for the majority of the dungeon.
Castingv TC on CD? Also checked.
🤔
ionic fern
.....
chilly brook
Where the ironfur and frenzied regen will have useless casts on bark
undone jacinth
you can't say it's double unless your scenario is the scenario all the time
and even in your scenario, it's not quite double
chilly brook
undone jacinth
no it's not
young glen
Most of the time it is. Good enough for me.
undone jacinth
wow good use of language
where did you learn that
from the same school that taught you not to interrogate any information you read
young glen
What is the problem here btw
ionic fern
We are not going back into personal insults.
chilly brook
undone jacinth
the problem is when someone says a blanket fact like 'it doubles up times' and then 'X has done the maths'
when they don't know either of those things to be true
someone walks away with wrong information
chilly brook
What is the problem here btw
He has a bone to pick I guess
You're acting as if the degree to which that information was "wrong" actually matters
young glen
Maybe he's a lawyer
undone jacinth
clearly you have no problem in saying things definitively when you don't know them
but that's not how my brain works
that's life
chilly brook
Maybe he's a lawyer
Hes not because he didnt know the definition of significant
ionic fern
We are calculating all the uptimes(including the wall etc) in similar scenarios meaning that they are all on even grounding. 🤔
Ofc there will be variables in the dungeons that we can't control/take into account which will falter the results a bit. It's the same for SIMC. 🤔
undone jacinth
variables = the way every dungeon is
ionic fern
Variables = Pull sizes, pull durations, dungeons etc.
undone jacinth
yeah and there is no dungeon that exists that does not have at least one pull size of 1
ionic fern
🤔
undone jacinth
so your calculation is immediately that tl = less than double up time
as soon as you acknowledge that
ionic fern
I mean, i'm getting the feeling you are just arguing for the sake of arguing right now.
I already told you we are doing the CALUCLATIONS ON EVEN GROUND
sharp crescent
Sometomes I pull a pack of nothing
undone jacinth
what even ground lol
undone jacinth
point is some people are just making stuf up
chilly brook
I mean, i'm getting the feeling you are just arguing for the sake of arguing rig...
You didn't get that from the get go?
ionic fern
Just like you are with Signet? 👀
undone jacinth
cool
ionic fern
No one is making stuff up.
undone jacinth
what about signet
undone jacinth
yes they are
chilly brook
Oh no
jagged pier
yes our theorycrafter is making stuff up
🤔
chilly brook
I rounded up to double when its somewhere slightly below double
undone jacinth
we just talked about this
undone jacinth
if your maths is remotely rigorous, it's not double
ionic fern
..........
chilly brook
Remove my ability to post now
undone jacinth
and it's not close
narrow sparrow
So uh is signet actually used?
undone jacinth
yes
chilly brook
So uh is signet actually used?
Only if you're dps
sharp crescent
Only if you're dps
Oh no. You triggered his trap card
chilly brook
yes
No we already established this with the VOD of pika who supposedly uses it
Or whoever it was
undone jacinth
there are many people
who use it
or did use it
doesn't have any baring on how good it is
narrow sparrow
I’m assuming you’d just die if you don’t cancel bladesroem
undone jacinth
it's not a debate about signet
I don't care if you think it's good or not
it does damage that's the end
undone jacinth
your brain
fringe marten
You aren't actually spinning in bladestorm right? your character continues to face the direction you're pointing ?
chilly brook
The 2400 rage over a dungeon from The Wall
narrow sparrow
Lordy
undone jacinth
yeah you still face
ionic fern
your brain
as i said, we are not going into personal insults.
undone jacinth
if you wanna have some signet damage debate
chilly brook
Or the extra uptime on DS
undone jacinth
spinning can be fun
sweet summit
I am 😔
narrow sparrow
Tanking*
ionic fern
See, this is your issue @undone jacinth .
You take SIMC which is also a simulation and can't duplicate real life situations as they are in dungeons/raids as OK.
But when we do literally the same thing with TL uptime you get triggered.
chilly brook
We don't need you to debate the specifics of TL that ultimately dont matter but you still do it anyways
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
undone jacinth
See, this is your issue <@!132546192105144320> .
You take SIMC which is also a s...
multiple sims, single target, multitarget, cleave, dungeon etc will give you a picture
your scenario
was ONE scenario
3 target cleave
permanently
that's it
young glen
The one that matters
undone jacinth
no
ionic fern
AI mean
young glen
Yes
ionic fern
I mean
undone jacinth
a dungeon isn't 3 target cleafve for 40 minutes
undone jacinth
if you tell someone they are getting double TL up time and they take it in to their dungeon or raid, they will not get it in either, that's the point
it's not double up time
undone jacinth
it doesnt scale beyond 3
ionic fern
If you tell someone they will do 3k overall DPS and they don't do it that's also the point.
chilly brook
Outside of bosses
ionic fern
🤔
fringe marten
Most importantly; no one is coming into this channel to ask "hey is your math perfectly right, on this item comparison?" They come here to ask what is more useful in given situations and why. Nitpicking over math is irrelevant and I don't know why people are getting into a heated debate over it.
chilly brook
Its pretty much consistently 3 or more targets
narrow sparrow
M0 shade
chilly brook
Like there's only a few trash pulls in dungeons that are less than 3 targets
The majority of your dungeon is 3+
undone jacinth
Most importantly; no one is coming into this channel to ask "hey is your math pe...
no but they come in to ask how good a lego is, and when matt tells them it doubles the up time of TL, that is wrong
so they get the wrong answer
young glen
trying to insult my skill level without knowing how the lego works
Well if you are running dungeons and not having three targets consistently then idk what youre playing
chilly brook
I really triggered you didnt I
undone jacinth
do you know what bosses are
chilly brook
Because it's not just me
chilly brook
Scroll up...
fringe marten
No one cares whos math is more accurate to the decimal..they care if the theory/utility behind it is right.
chilly brook
But the majority is still 3+
fringe marten
If he's rounding up a tiny bit to give a quick generalization of why X is useful over Y..and it's pretty accurate; that's all anyone cares about.
young glen
You must be fun at parties
undone jacinth
it's not a tiny bit
lime lake
is he arguing over a rounding
undone jacinth
it's not rounding
jagged pier
well mwahi you can always help me choose my vault if you want instead 
chilly brook
We've already gone through this
undone jacinth
if none of you actually wanna give correct info
chilly brook
Idk why we're doing this again
young glen
Maybe this isn't the right discord for you
narrow sparrow
What’s TL? Am I retarded?
fringe marten
And your math isn't right either.
lime lake
Team Liquid
fringe marten
The real answer would be specific to each dungeon/scenario it's used in
narrow sparrow
Gotcha
undone jacinth
The real answer would be specific to each dungeon/scenario it's used in
all I stated was that it's lower than double and that exactly this is true, I agree with you
fringe marten
how much CD reduction, based on how many targets, how often you can use it..spread over a dungeon. Then apply that math to get an answer. So you're arguing over exact math on a formula over the spirit of the question.
chilly brook
how much CD reduction, based on how many targets, how often you can use it..spre...
Hes arguing just to argue tbh
undone jacinth
the best formula you can possibly create makes it just under double
and there's many more scenarios above that which lower it further
which are real as opposed to ideal
fringe marten
Even people who make laws realize arguing over tiny specifics and details isn't as important as understanding the reason to have the law in the first place.
undone jacinth
not the worst
just a real one
you're giving them an unachievable best case scenario
nobody will ever get double
apart from your bugged log guy
chilly brook
I mean people probably thought 72-80% uptime on DS in 8.0 wasn't realistic
fringe marten
So if you want to get into exact uptime of demo shout or it's reduction by Tlord legendary based on what you're fighting; it would be a case by case dungeon by dungeon formula.
chilly brook
So if you want to get into exact uptime of demo shout or it's reduction by Tlord...
Hes arguing for something no one can really give
Because he wants to be pedantic and win an argument
undone jacinth
it's not a surprise that you don't understand my point at all
you have to assign some reason to it because you can't understand just actually wanting to state true things
quite incredible
chilly brook
Probably because his feelers are hurt over being bodied on the legendary discussion a few nights ago
chilly brook
Theres a difference between being accurate and being pedantic
chilly brook
You're squarely in the second camp
sweet summit
Wtf is pedantic
undone jacinth
you just say things someone else said
and then hope they can prove it for you
'i'm sure he's done the math'
'the logs prove it'
you never actually know yourself
lime lake
this seems very... personal
ionic fern
Yes.
undone jacinth
it is because I just take issue with people talking rubbish
ionic fern
And i'm sick of it.
chilly brook
@sweet summit
narrow sparrow
Maybe some dms?
chilly brook
I didnt even start this shit
undone jacinth
yeah right
ionic fern
it is because I just take issue with people talking rubbish
IT'S MATH NOT RUBBISH.
Holy crap.
undone jacinth
griff never posted
any math
at all
just some rubbish statement
about double up time
chilly brook
I redirected you to Mwahi because he can better answer your question
And you just keep going
undone jacinth
yeah because you don't know what you're talking about
chilly brook
undone jacinth
but still repeat it
twilit siren
my neck is 213 (mastery+crit) and my Shield is 207 (crit+haste)
ionic fern
Aight.
Take it into DM's if you want or you'll both get muted.
@undone jacinth @chilly brook
jagged pier
my neck is 213 (mastery+crit) and my Shield is 207 (crit+haste)
shield
ionic fern
Jeah, shield.
jagged pier
shield
outer solstice
or 220 shield from Pvp ?
fringe marten
well now you're picking stats
jagged pier
can u get to 1800?
outer solstice
yeah I have 1800
young glen
pvp
undone jacinth
how did you get ur 1800
outer solstice
Arms
undone jacinth
I mean what combo
outer solstice
with a holy paladin
outer solstice
survive the burst, and permanent preassure + CC in the right moment, yeah
outer solstice
being warrior helps, we have many tools
fringe marten
I'm way more interested in someone in my guild selling some stuff on AH for 50k..from WoD garrison missions.
outer solstice
same same shurriq
jolly thistle
226 weapon lets goooo 
undone jacinth
got a weapon on the main and a scale on the first alt
outer solstice
sitting on a 184 xD
undone jacinth
the vault provides
outer solstice
gief scale plz
smoky wave
Welp folks, guess I lucked out for the week. Got a mists12 as my key too
lunar perch
Lucky :o
undone jacinth
nice
last yacht
No shield again this week. What do you guys think? I have the same chestpiece but at 207, but the trinket looks pretty nice.
smoky wave
Guess it depends on what trinkets you have, but I think I'd take chest
tulip raft
Layer 8 - Solo? Or group it?
young glen
How much haste y'all running?
smoky wave
I always groups, but that's just cos I find it more fun 🤷
limber temple
How much haste y'all running?
Sitting at 16% at the moment.
last yacht
Guess it depends on what trinkets you have, but I think I'd take chest
I have a ilvl 200 scale and 200 anima emitter and a 213 splintered heart for dangerous situations 😛
young glen
That seems rather low, you feel comfortable with that?
Wait. My bad. I have had ITF at full stacks
Forget what I've said lol
smoky wave
I have a ilvl 200 scale and 200 anima emitter and a 213 splintered heart for dan...
@last yacht I'd pick chest I think. About the same ilvl upgrade but on a solid main piece. I'm a trinket butterfly though so like swapping them about
sand obsidian
You guys prefer a focus taunt macro or mouseover taunt macro?
last yacht
<@98469072487862272> I'd pick chest I think. About the same ilvl upgrade but on ...
Yeah i guess there is a better chance of me getting the trinket from the raid. Thanks @smoky wave
young glen
You guys prefer a focus taunt macro or mouseover taunt macro?
I am all about mouseover
I am also mouseover kicker, but I feel pretty good about "aiming" at those nameplates
valid zodiac
Well this weeks rewards were utter shit
dark lark
Go with what you're comfortable with, simple as that
undone jacinth
I tend to lock my cam with right click so usually just do focus kick
seems more reliable to m e
thorny wing
Guys, Weapon or Ring?....Ring has BIS Stats, but Weapon is better simmed as Top Gear for DPS, dunno
jagged pier
ring imo
thorny wing
yeah, better overall i guess
smoky wave
Ring too. +23ilvl Bis with avoidance over 4 ilvl worse stats
thorny wing
yeah, took it - thanks for second advices
smoky wave
Think you knew already, but good to get second opinionsb
deft vessel
a random 12 i did yesterday for my vault
-.-
these were people with 850+ r.io
I'm at 955
sweet summit
Why is it upside down
sweet summit
sweet summit
Fair ig
civic comet
MY EYES
echo egret
Great Vault question... is it me or that 220 trinket is numerically crap on top of the slow, compared to my 2 trinkets ?
civic comet
That seems like a fair bit of healing
I feel like it would be good on low movement fights
deft vessel
so like.... kul'tharok
echo egret
1237 HP x 6 ticks is less than the shield given by the scale
deft vessel
and it's pretty measly compared to overall health pool
echo egret
other vault options are ilevel upgrades from 213 to 220
civic comet
Mine are trash so Iunno I just like looking at 220s
My buddy is a prot pally, he got scale at 226 from vault today
echo egret
omg
civic comet
Says it does 11k to everyone and gives him 40k absorb
silent fog
Hi, vault question here, should i go with the ring or the 226 weapon even though it's not the best stats ? (already have the trinket 220)
silent fog
that's what i was thiking too, the dps upgrade and the ilvl diff is huge
sweet summit
Yeah
silent fog
ok, thanks for the advices !
supple glacier
better the quantum or cristal trinket?
deft vessel
quantum I'm pretty sure
fallow mortar
sim it
sweet summit
Quantum will sim higher but that doesnt mean i will berform better in practice
Im not a huge fan of quantum due to the long cooldown, but its good in m+ but terrible for raid prog
sweet summit
If by padding you mean giving healers mana, sure
outer solstice
as you said it's not really useful for us in progress
dense flame
apparanetly you can do a macro that makes you leave raid/use trinket/join raid again.
that supposed to force it to stat proc
jagged pier
i think thats been fixed now no?
surreal nest
213 spliter of alar or 223 barricade (up from 194 mists shield)?
jagged pier
sheild
void moat
But to be fair u could straight up get it from the raid at any ilvl
Amd it still just as good
A barricade is not
cold dragon
any info if draven is giga stronk in m+?
sweet summit
apparanetly you can do a macro that makes you leave raid/use trinket/join raid a...
Cant invite someone in raid combat
So it doesnot work
sweet summit
You dontleave theraid for that
undone jacinth
they fixed it so I think he’s trying to say that’s how you get around the fix but seems a bit far fetched
sweet summit
No i dont think so
It has nothing to do with you being in a group or not, the preplll thing
undone jacinth
yeh I would assume it resets on combat start but idk
polar radish
i thought the prepul thing was where you use the trinket then swap it out but you didnt lose the buff
sand condor
he caved
he CAVED
he is now playing the wall
it happened
he listened
and while he tried to play it off as his own idea.
he finally listened
now to just get him to play devestator
and into the fray
jagged pier
who?
sweet summit
Pog!
sand condor
the warrior tank i whined about mroe than once
the one whose playstyle we dont understand
sweet summit
Punish is alright, itf/ravager both work; as long as it isnt UF xd
jagged pier
meh cant help thoughs ppl
grizzled forge
What was his play style?
sand condor
wrong
grizzled forge
I mean people grow up being told they can do/be anything/anyone they want who are you to judge 😛
sand condor
😦 someone whose tank spot got taken by this dude because the officers are his friends
sand obsidian
Should I be casting revenge often or as the guide says only when free or to dump rage?
sweet summit
Use it to dump damage, get aggro, dump rage etc
tulip raft
So Twisting L8, better to solo or to group?
sweet summit
Can do either, whatever you prefer honestly
strong forum
I did it solo
tender copper
😦 someone whose tank spot got taken by this dude because the officers are his f...
Officers putting a bad tank in the raid on purpose? Get out ASAP
gray spear
Hey guys, not sure if you guys watched any of Sense's mplus video, he was able to charge forward without using charge or intervene, anyone know what that is?
wise rivet
yo guys, do i get 23 ilvl upgrade on waist or 16 ilvl upgrade on blood-splattered trinket?
current waist is haste/crit and new one would be versa/mastery
idk how hard trinkets are scaling atm
jagged pier
belt
hollow zodiac
guys need help
jagged pier
shoot
hollow zodiac
216 bis ring, or 220 crit/mast helmet?
jagged pier
whats the ilvl of the items you have?
hollow zodiac
194 helm, 216/207 rings
jagged pier
helm
hollow zodiac
sorry, 210/207
jagged pier
helm still probs
hollow zodiac
right, was thinking the same
thanks
my haste is so shit on my war it's depressing me
that's why I was considering ring
covert hare
Hello here ! i'am starting 2 week ago to play prot warrior but i struggle about my great vault trinket choice today someone can help me ?
sweet summit
Al'ar is great if you need it, not so great if you dont
"Great" should probably say good but yeah
amber herald
I'd grab Alar I think it's the funnest choice
sweet summit
Kinda true
covert hare
the slimy one sucks ? cause its 226 and provide a loot of hp pool
undone jacinth
it’s decent but str is just so valuable
it’s a tough choice
one consideration is that you won’t get the organ anywhere else but you can get the heart from raid
sonic mesa
DAMMIT
3 trinkets again in vault
226 decanter 226 anima field emitter and HC 220 sanguine vintage
covert hare
Ok ok , thanks for ur help guys i think i will go to the al ar one then !
sonic mesa
dont know what to pick
sweet summit
ANIMA!!!
jagged pier
field
sweet summit
Thats a lot of haste
sonic mesa
and a 226 ring signet of the false accuser
kindred warren
I got alar one it saved my ass a few times
chilly escarp
all these trinkets and im on 2 bracers have mythic and yet anouther haste ring lol
sitting at 28% haste right now when is it too much haste lol
kindred warren
40%
sweet summit
What the shit
grim wigeon
How good is 200 ilvl memory of past sins? Rather, how many in my raid would need to have it to make it better than 213 skulkers wing? Anyone tried it?
restive flax
I think I asked this a thousand times already, but I keep forgetting... how much of a block increase is a difference of 10 ilevel on a shield?
sweet summit
How good is 200 ilvl memory of past sins? Rather, how many in my raid would need...
Id just sim it and see, i dont know exactly
grim wigeon
Im kinda new to simming, how do i sim with an item i dont have?
sweet summit
From vault?
grim wigeon
Yeah
sweet summit
sweet summit
astral crystal
I think I asked this a thousand times already, but I keep forgetting... how much...
Your block is on the item itself
You still want highest ilvl shield
restive flax
I know, I just dont know how much he actual value changes
astral crystal
I went from 223 to 226 shield back to back
restive flax
because that differs between different types of content
strong forum
10 ilvl is like 3% less damage taken?
smth like that
total value
effective value is 10%ish
remote hawk
Is pelagos still the better soulbind to run with or is maikonos vaild or whatever his name is. He seems to have a few fun bonuses
strong forum
Mikanikos is trash
remote hawk
Rip xD
sand condor
oh also, smart warriors of the skyhold discord, could yáll take a look at my logs and give me some pointers on what i can improve on, warcraftanalyzer gives me basics but i'd like to hear what yáll can find. especially as it was my first time since 2 years on it
Huntyboy HC
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DMbPnzQVwLHKBvWR#fight=6
HD hc
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DMbPnzQVwLHKBvWR#fight=15
jagged pier
may want to work on your use of SB a bit more you only blocked 56% og hits on hungering
same with huntsmen
sand condor
what is the number iu should be aiming for to be at least not trash
jagged pier
65+ i would say
you can get to 72/73
espically HD you should be alot higher as you have downtime
kindred raptor
Is MDT safe to use again?
strong forum
Yes
jagged pier
where you can let you sb recharge
sand condor
yes
kindred raptor
Cool, weird that that thing happend wit the author in the 1st place
short apex
how troll is using signet as prot on lowkeys?
shame it doesnt proc of ravager
but it does work on avatar
jagged pier
yer
sturdy trench
