Is it that bad?
#protection
cinder nova
chilly brook
Yes
No
Everything sludge and onwards is a bolster fight
Not necessarily because of your damage intake
But because of everyone else's
jagged pier
your always tanking pretty much in generals
chilly brook
That too
dark lark
More of a practical question, in a scenario where I'm unable to kite or tank swap, what order of CDs should I use for gaps in shield block? So far I've been going SBx3 > Wall (using wall leggo > SB > Bolstered Last Stand > SB > Demo Shout + IP spam > SB > kite/die/pray
Wondering if there's a more optimal way to cover SB gaps
bright hornet
how do i pull up blocked attacks in logs?
chilly brook
More of a practical question, in a scenario where I'm unable to kite or tank swa...
If you know you're going to be in that situation you bolster going into it
So its CD is rolling right away
And you hit a shield block charge
You dont really waste anything and you're getting the most out of your CDs
I'm not sure how truly valuable rationing DS is
But once you run out youd Wall if you didnt need it sooner
And then if you have nothing left in the tank and need something get an external
jagged pier
DS should use on cd tbh
chilly brook
Definitely if you're using BV
jagged pier
like nothing wrong with what your doing dshoo from what i can read
chilly brook
Well he should use bolster far sooner
jagged pier
ive found after the wall is over i can get 2 SB charged back
nah i always use my charges before bolster
jagged pier
and with the wall u want to use that first
chilly brook
If you know you need it
jagged pier
I guess could wall first
chilly brook
You last stand asap
dark lark
Yeah I noticed the duration increases on SB, whereas in BFA I'm pretty sure the duration didn't stack
chilly brook
Theres no downside to last standing right away if you know you're going to need the uptime
Theres only benefits because you're going to have it back sooner which means more uptime of block
dark lark
Right
grand drum
I always stacked ls and sb in bfa for more slam dam lol
jagged pier
then you wasted sb uptime and damage
chilly brook
^
jagged pier
it has a cap
thin pulsar
is ilvl still a priority over stats?
jagged pier
yus
dark lark
I still have the Last Stand after SB muscle memory from BFA
jagged pier
probably
thin pulsar
thnx
chilly brook
I still have the Last Stand _after_ SB muscle memory from BFA
Its situationally dependent
On sludge for example I'd just pop it at the start
In keys it's a little more dependent since mobs have differing lengths of survival
On donny same thing I'd probably hold it depending on what's going on during the fight
vague jetty
You are saying last stand before shield block?
sharp herald
for what fight?
for keys i generally pop it as i charge into a particularly meaty pack since most M+ key pulls dmg is frontloaded
chilly brook
You are saying last stand before shield block?
The key distinction is if you know you're going to need to pop it for shield block uptime for the fight to begin with
chilly brook
Yes because you can add to the duration with said charges
vague jetty
Um
Why would you not use 2 charges, then last stand, and when last stand is done, you have charges that have refreshed?
dark lark
How high can the duration for shield block go up to? If I was to charge SB and immediately bolster, and add SB charges as they come up
vague jetty
Instead of sitting on 2 charges?
dark lark
@vague jetty the duration stacks
chilly brook
And then shield block
It adds to duration
And starts the recharge
You dont lose anything
And the quicker it's on recharge the faster you get it back
Meaning more uptime
vague jetty
😩
chilly brook
But this is literally only relevant on things that you need to be blocking basically the whole time
dark lark
First typical pull of mists comes to mind
chilly brook
Yea
dark lark
If you go 5 spiteclaws and the 4 pack
low kindle
is there a sharpening stone for blunt weapon? if so, may i know the name?
low kindle
ya got it! Thank you!
pseudo raptor
Porous Weightstone and Shaded Weightstone.
random niche
I’ve been using LS during my execute window
wheat sleet
what exactly would a weightstone do? Do you just tape it to your mace or what
bright hornet
what is "too low" of a % of blocked hits
jagged pier
depends on the fight
sweet surge
Is there a way to automatically WCLogs my M+ runs?
jagged pier
if your trying to be tanky 65 i would say would be the lowest you want
sweet surge
Or do I have to manually /combatlog every time?
jagged pier
apprently theres a thing in dbm that does it
chilly brook
jagged pier
but doesnt seem to be working for some people
bright hornet
xD
low kindle
Maybe he meant prot pala KEKW
jagged pier
sick sentinel
what do i need to do to see my turbo nerd stats with the blocked hits and whatever?
simC right?
chilly brook
I need to get a 14 or a 15 recorded tonight
So I can be a nerd
And make another commentary
chilly brook
what do i need to do to see my turbo nerd stats with the blocked hits and whatev...
You need to log and go to warcraftlogs
lilac sleet
Yes, change the narrative. Show everyone the true potential of the Val'kyr. Honor your brethren.
chilly brook
I actually recorded most of a 14 SD from last night
It was just rough
Still timed it
jagged pier
I need to get a 14 or a 15 recorded tonight
same should actually upload the 14s ive recorded but cba
jagged pier
Tru
sick sentinel
the highest key i've done on time is a few 6's
sick sentinel
yeah, i would like to watch the run
chilly brook
Fuck PF lmao
sick sentinel
tonk perspective
chilly brook
Such a shitty dungeon
astral crystal
PF is really easy this week
jagged pier
well if i get into keys tomorrow i can stream them if you want to see scuff stuff going on
astral crystal
the most painful packs you can cheese using borers
sweet summit
plaguefall is such an easy key but i still hate it
tardy parcel
pf just feels designed to be a pain in the ass for all roles
chilly brook
It really is a pain in the ass
For no reason
Especially with the added tentacles
Oh no
People found out a way to make the dungeon less shitty gotta stop that!
young harbor
how much kiting do you guys do in the 12-15 key range
young harbor
depending on packs/affixes i assume
jagged pier
yer
young harbor
i havent been kiting much unless its gets cereal
chilly brook
Not a whole lot tbh
sonic latch
Mostly doing M+: Should I stick with my warrior or lvl a DH now?
sweet summit
Up to u mate 🤷
chilly brook
Play what you want
And if you were actually super serious about m+ pushing you'd play a bear
sweet summit
What do you like more?
Will you be doing keys so high that you basically need to be a dh?
sweet summit
Really? 🤔
sweet summit
I have not
chilly brook
Dorki gives no fucks
sick sentinel
and the dungeons i ran
chilly brook
He just face tanks everything in a 20
Hes also a savage and does some risky shifts into boomie to convoke
fallow mortar
Indomitable ftw
strong forum
theres not much to heal for dh on that fight
cuz dmg intake is very low if youre swapping often
so he cant heal shit
but indom and IP work 100% :^)
fallow mortar
Which fight?
strong forum
Hungering
fallow mortar
Ahhhh
I love how chill hungering is for tanks but for everyone else they are running around like the room is on fire
pseudo raptor
Haha. That’s so true. I did it on my hunter first then when I tanked it I was shocked how much more chill it was.
desert skiff
strong forum
you mean for shit being in Sanguine?
steady spruce
easy, it's the mob who is casting
strong forum
îs it weird that want hungering destroyer shoulders from weekly vault
only for tmog?
carmine crag
-healer left mid dungeon Mists+10, we were on time
-healer left after second pull on SoA+10 and we wiped (he was healing less than I was IPing)
-dps left before last boss (literally, all the trash was done) on SoA+11 because we weren't on time and everyone else left
-something else I don't remember
haven't timed a single +10
this is driving me nuts
lofty widget
has anyone done any testing on the unbalancing blow ability in theater, the one that reduces your block chance by 100 %? im not sure if SB negates it or not
strong forum
mh
interesting
i just facetanked him
the unbalancing blow itself hurt
but the melees after didnt i think
and i deleted the vod
so i cant check
lemme check log
lofty widget
yea i've been feeling the same, but hard to tell with only 1 mob hitting you
shut summit
it doesnt negate it, you still have a chance to block with SB up tho
deft vessel
IT HAPPENED
ALL OF MY GRINDING FINALLY BLESSED ME WITH A WEAPON
I'm 206 equipped, was using a 184 weapon
strong forum
ALL OF MY GRINDING FINALLY BLESSED ME WITH A WEAPON
grats
lofty widget
thx for clarifying guys 😄
vagrant parcel
Probably not a new issue, but I rarely play Prot (sorry). The Tormented Kings leggo doesn't seem to proc off Ravager when talented into it as Prot? It does trigger from Avatar, which is baseline. Feels very inconsistent because in Arms it does trigger from Avatar, which is talented into.
Feels like that should be fixed
strong forum
yes
our Ravager doesnt replace Bladestorm, thus it doesnt work with it
the spell ID is different
strong forum
yes
and ravager for arms replaces bladestorm, thats why it works for them, but not for us
our ravager is entirely different
dense umbra
Hi all - I am struggling on heroic stone legion. Seem to take so much damage from both Kaal and the reaver in p1. Is this just a tough fight for prot warrior? Or are there other factors affecting my damage intake. My SB is up almost all the time , IP rather than revenge , cooldowns used when SB not available.
pliant rock
Alright my brothers lower shield wall cd conduit with wall leggo or ignore pain conduit
strong forum
Lower SW CD
strong forum
Hi all - I am struggling on heroic stone legion. Seem to take so much damage fro...
You don't tank kaal as pwar
You only tank adds on kaal, and shortly tank for him when your cotank is resetting bleeds
In p2/p3you swap for stonehand stacks only
pliant rock
@strong forum Ty sir
dense umbra
@strong forum brilliant thank you
strong forum
You can intervene the hungering fixate attack from the gargoyles BTW
Just intervene the target and stay close to them and they don't take any damage
dense umbra
Yes I do that ^^
strong forum
Good
dense umbra
Shame there is nothing to SR in the encounter
pliant rock
Is our next soulbind tomorrow just going to be trash or what?
strong forum
Idk why would it be trash
We don't get a new conduit row right
Not until kleia 28
pliant rock
the baseline conduits just seem so troll
Also not really sure what brons call to action actually looks like
strong forum
Bron is useless
steady spruce
How darz u
strong forum
Don't think or look at him
steady spruce
Stop that
strong forum
Ignore his existance and you're safe :)
steady spruce
Bron is the secret soulbind meta that will make warriors s tier
Open your eyes
When you proc Bron in necrotic wake he takes control of a goliath and oblitzrates everythi'g
strong forum
Huge
steady spruce
He can headbutt Denathrius for 100k
dawn imp
https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/55826-shadowlands-mythic-dps-tank-and-healer-log-rankings/
please tell me this is more than doom and gloom 😢
covert tangle
How is pwar in shadowlands? I wonder to main him but many ppl in my guild is telling me that this tank is dogshit right now. What is the truth
dawn imp
i tank +10's easily enough, not really that bad, some kiting and such required. But when i tried moving into 11+'s I was getting rock n socked. Was hard to kite + hold aggro ;/ but that boils down to my lack of skill. There are some god tier wars doing 15+s
no idea how they pull it off
deft vessel
timed a 14 today, the healer told me I'm one of the tanks he's had the easiest time to heal, we're fine, the biggest challenge is finding the groups lol
sonic mesa
Finding groups is the hardest part
deft vessel
206 equipped for reference
sonic mesa
215 here and i struggle to get in 14's 15's 16's
dawn imp
<- 205 and ^^^
sonic mesa
i tank +10's easily enough, not really that bad, some kiting and such required. ...
i Just make sure i open with good AoE dps drop my stuns, Spear and kite around
deft vessel
I've not really had to kite much in the 14 TOP I did
the whole "need to kite" is vastly overblown in common rhetoric
some mechanics need to be kited
for everyone
sonic mesa
ToP is nice
deft vessel
but you shouldn't have to kite white damage
sonic mesa
i struggle with halls alot
sonic mesa
Yeah but dps just derp around, even have to tell them when to heroism etc
strong forum
https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/55826-shadowlands-mythic-dps-tank-and-hea...
This is just popularity
Pwar is the least played tank in the game
So it's by default gonna look worse
vestal moat
The pack after the second boss in HOA, there are gargons and if you kite too far they melee people appartently.
deft bridge
but why, i feel awesome when tanking raid
deft vessel
because FOTM
strong forum
Don't pay much attention to rankings, tanks have way less influence in m+ than people think in SL
deft vessel
know your spec, know your route and interrupt frequently
the same can be said about literally every single spec
strong forum
You as a tank have very little influence on your survival
deft vessel
and for the love of god, bring health potions
strong forum
You're very dependant on your dps and healers
deft vessel
indeed
sonic mesa
Tbh, im 1150 rio and never used a single health pot
deft vessel
healthstones + kyrian vial as available/necessary too
sonic mesa
lol
deft vessel
it's about smoothing out rough packs, saving healer GCDs or in rare cases - emergency self healing
dawn imp
the whole "need to kite" is vastly overblown in common rhetoric
show me your ways because i get absolutely crushed whenever my last stand of shieldwall isnt up.
deft vessel
pots are cheap and should be frequently used
dawn imp
as well, what stats do you prefer if everything is = ilvl
strong forum
You do need to kite, but only if you legri have nothing up
Ilvl >haste > vers/crit > mastery
deft vessel
if you are like, out of rage, out of shield block and out of ignore pain and out of cooldowns you may need to kite, but to claim it's only a kiting game is not super accurate, as normal rotation of cooldowns, sort of the prot war thing, should cover you most of the time
ravager, bolster help, thunderlord + booming voice too
I do use the ignore pain conduit
for what that's worth
strong forum
It depends on the dungeon and your dps
If your dps players are bad you need to kite more
In DoS you need to kite alot on the skellies and the bladestorm Bois
deft vessel
well yeah, true always, the longer things are alive the more damage you take and the less cooldown coverage you have
strong forum
Same as hoa
deft vessel
but the 14 I did was with ...okay DPS and still just fine
strong forum
I mean so are my 14-17s
Often don't need to kite
Cuz you have bolster or SW
And the pack should be dead
But still too much for my taste
deft vessel
definitely feels like i have to kite more than say BfA
strong forum
Any amount of kiting is to much
deft vessel
but it's really to kite-specific mechanics
strong forum
In bfa you never kited
strong forum
Kiting is dogshit, let me play the game
I win the game by not playing
Fucking amazing...
deft vessel
the ones I find the most annoying are the stupid enrage mobs at the start of mists
strong forum
Na mists is 0 kiting for me
deft vessel
hit or miss for me
depending on group
if they stun then I'm usually fine with a rage bar full
deft vessel
but it's reaaaaaally hit or miss depending on group
strong forum
Easy fucking pull
deft vessel
with enough deeps it's really generally straight forward
curious you pull both packs of little jumpy dudes
I tend to pull one and pull the second villager on the side
should revise prolly
sonic mesa
mhmm me too
strong forum
Worst way to play the game 
sonic mesa
What trinkets do you run?
strong forum
Decanter + scale
vestal moat
Can you make a clip of the first big pull on DOS? I need help with that one and also the pack in front of hakkar's entrance.
sonic mesa
Mhmm
strong forum
Same principle warbean
strong forum
You pull all, hero, use LS, SW when casts are going off
And you start kiting once SW / LS falls off
vestal moat
Gathering them is way yarder in DOS. For Mists I ssaw you just chharge and leap. But they are spread apart more in dos. It takes awhile for them to get to me.
strong forum
Eh
Just run on mount
Pull the 2
Then leap down
And TC insta
Once they're grouped you spear + ravager
While leaping down taunt big guy
vestal moat
Yeah, just more p ractice i guess. WOuld still love to see clip if you ever do it t ho. ❤️
strong forum
Haven't done dos in 3 weeks, will try
amber herald
easiest week for dos imo, for a long time anyway
vestal moat
The other problem with DOS is if you follow your above strat, you have nothing left for that Hakkar pack. :/
amber herald
still a shitter of a dungeon though
strong forum
Ye that hakkar pack you kite insta
You get aggro and peace out
Usually I don't need SW for first pack
So you have atleast that
The skellies are easily the hardest packs
So you just resort to kiting very early
Cuz they're dumb af
vestal moat
Ty for advice
sick sentinel
my new strategy for doinng dos the purple death speakers is to stand at the up stps with back to it
then cant be sent flying to death
sick sentinel
not worth the risk, too many times been flung off and look like moron
sharp grove
I have a question as a normal raider.
sick sentinel
well, crap, i'll work something out for it
sharp grove
Why do the RWF mythic raiders dislike Prot Warrior? 🤔 I know it's a min-maxing thing, but I'm curious about why.
strong forum
Why do the RWF mythic raiders dislike Prot Warrior? 🤔 I know it's a min-maxing...
Limit used a pwar
stray sierra
Nomeratur do you have a yt channel with runs on it?
sick sentinel
i know he doesn stream some times
sharp grove
I know, but in the interview with Preach, they said they didn't like it.
deft bridge
Why do the RWF mythic raiders dislike Prot Warrior? 🤔 I know it's a min-maxing...
you have to min max if you wanna get carried
stray sierra
Whats senses yt?
strong forum
Just search for "sense - nurfed"
strong forum
I know, but in the interview with Preach, they said they didn't like it.
Pwar scales slowly early on and needs alot gear before being tanky
I was 179
When I did 12s
sharp grove
Ah, okay. Thanks. o/
strong forum
Pwar are also very unforgiving
stray sierra
Bruh
strong forum
So if you make a mistake, you die
stray sierra
Is that a typo
ember junco
Bear Druid a bit more forgiving? It’s
strong forum
Yes
Pwar is usually the worst progression tank because you need to play really well and it needs gear more than other tanks
stray sierra
I have 198, i feel like my runs go really well until people miss interrupts and stuff and then it becomes quite difficult to keep alive
stray sierra
Im guessing thats a general tank in m+ thing and not an ilvl or prot thing
strong forum
Na pwar specifically needs more ilvl early on
sick sentinel
i mean, a fully geared out good prot warrior is a god anyway
strong forum
Because of haste and shield
stray sierra
Just with gear those fuck ups will be less punishing
stray sierra
Do u mean the actual shield or something else
strong forum
Actual shield
sick sentinel
you need strong weapon too, very important as well but not as important as shield
strong forum
The thing you equip
stray sierra
Cos of the block chance?
strong forum
Block value*
sick sentinel
better weapon more dmg which helps with threat
strong forum
The amount of damage you block, depends on your block value
With a 226 shield you block like 40% of damage
stray sierra
I see
strong forum
With a 160 shield way less than 25% or smth
stray sierra
I hsve a 200 shield i believe
strong forum
The higher the better
stray sierra
Would like one from the vault
sick sentinel
if you critical block, an auto will do basically nothing
strong forum
stray knot
tyvm
fresh wind
quick question, why does the most recent pin say unstoppable force is not a good pick if the wowhead prot warrior guide says that it's good for m+ and that "it rules!"?
undone sun
different authors
last mason
do you guys lust on domina in pf this week
i find my pug groups struggle with her more than the last boss
cold flame
cerulean pebble
Devastator frees up space on your bar, frees up a GCD and with enough haste you hardly press Devastate anyway (so having it be a passive is better for ST damage). At least that is my opinion as to why Devastator > Punish.
steel mauve
@fresh wind Ravager deals a good amount of AoE damage, generates 60 Rage over 12 seconds, and it will slowly chase enemies. It’s surprisingly good now. No, really, it is! Into the Fray and Unstoppable Force just aren't very competitive options in AoE situations.
straight from the wowhead prot warrior m+ talents ^
misty tartan
What ilvl did you guys have when going in to 12+ keys?
Mine was 190
amber herald
60rage? I thought it was more
fresh wind
https://www.wowhead.com/guides/protection-warrior-basic-mythic-plus-keystone-dungeons @steel mauve ?
steel mauve
10 rage per second roughly every 2 seconds damage time
undone sun
IV is the preferred guide here
steel mauve
the actual prot warrior guide has a m+ section, thats a specific guide to m+ and not connected to the general prot warrior guide
nvm that is actually a section in the prot warrior guide, but in the talents section it is counter to what it says there
that m+ section is inaccurate in the wowhead guide
IV is actually written by a presence here and is the more preferred guide
even in the talent section of the wowhead guide it contradicts itself lower when describing each talent by row, so thats kind of confusing as well
steel mauve
60rage? I thought it was more
and ya its always gonna be 60 rage, the only thing that changes is how long it lasts with haste, it does the same amount of damage and rage gen but for a shorter time period, i think mines down to just over 10 seconds duration
vestal moat
/p
uneven mason
yeah TFW it suggests UF
sick sentinel
i just did some torghast and we made it but it ended in the healer telling somebody to "learn the game" and called us incels
uneven mason
in the wohead guide.
Wow
so, people getting toxic in Torghast?
wait
people group for torghast?
sick sentinel
we had 5 deaths left to go too,
uneven mason
People die in torghast?
sick sentinel
falling or 1 shot for me, everything for dps
sick sentinel
you usually learn pretty fast if something one hits u tho
restive flax
Yeah I guess so. I was just very confused for second because I just didnt expect it
It was the big rock golem
the aoe centered on him
uneven mason
when he has lumbering?
restive flax
maybe?^^
uneven mason
yeah that'll hurt
restive flax
Yeah still, I had perma shield wall so I just didnt think that id die 😄
sick sentinel
well, as tank, u tend to have a ton of moments where you just die fall over and then you are like what in the FUUU
uneven mason
TFW "Condemn stuns the target and knocks them down for 0.5 second"
restive flax
I got oneshot with 86k damage overkill through SW
So uh... I will dodge aoes now
^^
sick sentinel
wait, those colored circle swirly bois?
restive flax
ye
sick sentinel
you don't stand in those?
tender phoenix
is it ok to have "Darkmoon Deck: Voracity" (haste one) or is it better to have the "Darkmoon Deck: Indomitable" (Phalanx) one on?
undone sun
indom isn't good, voracity would be better
heavy sail
A minute thirty for a 1.5-3k absorb seems kinda shit compared to 250-350 haste .
I’d say voracity is the better pick
restive flax
rofl Thyme, I read that message without reading the one above first and was very confused how someone would call indom bad LUL
undone sun
🙂
restive flax
not to cause confusion, I thought he was referring to the talent. not the trinket
which is also called indom
heavy sail
I gotcha
swift pasture
Indom is fine
In my opinion
It's very useful for muezalas tank shredder
To reduce the damage and and the bleed
undone sun
armor doesn't reduce bleeds
heavy sail
It’s a pretty weak absorb, it’s not totally useless, it’s just more useless than a haste dump.
swift pasture
And is good against iron spikes in SD 3rd boss
Yes it does on muezalas
Muezalas is it does damage then based on how much damage it does the bleed is bigger or smaller
So any mitigation helps a lot
heavy sail
If you time SB/IP for iron spikes, which is easy to do, it tickles.
Like almost no damage.
swift pasture
I agree but any extra always helps
restive flax
well on higher keys it does do damage
wouldnt call it a tickle, but its easy to manage
swift pasture
Point being, against boss multi hits, it can be useful to have an on demand 1-3k reduction on every hit
If it's no more than 5
I even found it useful on denethrius's three hit combo in phase 3 on my first clear
heavy sail
I just don’t see any argument where you think that it’s better than voracity is what I’m sayin’
restive flax
^
Yes, haste is not going to give you on demand protection against any source of damage
but gives you more overall
both offensive and defensive
sick sentinel
voracity is fine, but i wouldn't stick with it longer than u need
heavy sail
Neither of them are BIS or anything resembling it.
sick sentinel
have to be within range of an enemy, and gives you X haste basd on the current card.
it's not fantasic but pw likes haste
heavy sail
Just a decent ilvl boost from the auction house with a decent use effect
summer adder
can you mouseover macro intervene and charge in the same button?
sick sentinel
yup
summer adder
sick
sick sentinel
if u run halls and get the pulsating stone throw it away
50% slow for 12 seconds is a death sentence
heavy sail
I made the mistake of using intervene as a movement modifier this morning without thinking about its actual effect.
Dropped it on the tank and got deleted
silver trout
oh no
warm blaze
should i get 235 TL or make my 2nd legendary, the wall?
idk dont really have a boot swap and do more M+ than anything else
idk if the wall is better in different situations
chilly brook
@jagged pier we out here
swift pasture
I've seen top warriors using both
I have both and am currently using the wall
There's a lot of packs at higher mythic plus that basically need to be opened with shield wall to not get GCD'd
So making sure it's CD is as low as possible (with the conduit as well, we don't take anger management in mythic plus because bolster is a must)
Both are very good, having Demo shout every pack instead of every 2 or having shield wall every 3 packs instead of every 5 are both great
hardy radish
tfw you haven't gotten a single defensive trinket to drop
at least I've got a 200+ ilvl phial and quantum device
oh and anime field
sick sentinel
there is a way to manipulate the IQD
but i do not know the details
u really don't want to get the pulsating stone though, and i hear that 
is bad too
abstract summit
can we parry or block sludgefist off tank fist since it counts as a spell
undone sun
it's physical, but regardless the school of the ability isn't an indicator of blockable or not
astral crystal
There's a lot of packs at higher mythic plus that basically need to be opened wi...
yeah this
doing the first pull in SD for example
you will get globalled without some kind of heavy mit
first big pull, obviously, not just the 3 pack
abstract summit
@undone sun thx
cinder nova
I hate the feeling of wiping on sludge because DPS can't manage their CDs and do the 2nd easiest mechanical fight in the tier.
Wish I could use that rage on IP, because it's infuriating.
sick sentinel
i coulda ran CN normal tonight with guild but i don't know any of the boss or trash fights outside of a bit of LFR lol
sterile moss
Are Frieda's Soul Spikes blockable?
cinder nova
When you start getting into +13 and above keys is it more important to have shield block uptime or pump damage?
Because I'm seriously looking at ITF over Rav
But the rage from Rav is big.
sterile moss
don't forget the threat generation from ravager too
cinder nova
I mean, I don't have issues with threat.
And that was with a fire mage ripping ass through a 12 for 8K+
undone jacinth
block up time is more important but that doesn’t make itf better
undone jacinth
because it’s not as simple as that
you can roll 3 blocks without itf and it’s unlikely you will roll 4 with it
undone jacinth
and it depends how much time the dungeon is giving you
not sure
if the dungeon has chains of disgusting packs then the CDR is more relevant than if you’re gonna get a bolster refresh
and there is the question of if you’re even going to get full itf value to begin with
cinder nova
Probably. TOP is cramped as fuck
undone jacinth
yeah ur not really looking for probably tho
astral crystal
Because I'm seriously looking at ITF over Rav
Just play it and see if you like it
I’m a fan of ITF in both m+ and raids
undone jacinth
it definitely makes threat more complicated
astral crystal
Rav is probably better for dmg since you get more rage for revenges
Hm, don’t really have threat issues honestly
undone jacinth
it’s not that u will lose threat it just puts your globals under more pressure which can be a problem as packs get more difficult
revenge is still good threat but u gotta click it
astral crystal
Personal experience so your mileage may vary but threat disappeared as a problem in 15s and 16s
cinder nova
zzzz
A shitty lock dumped our +13 ToP by doing less damage than me and dying twice as much as anyone else.
A+
Like - if he died even half of the times we would've timed it.
It would be dumb close, but we would've.
mellow patio
cinder nova
Somehow he was 1K io
Doing 2.6K on Mordretha
Probably gets carried by his guild.
We use uhh
Shadowfire right?
Err
Phantom Fire.
fallow mortar
both
cinder nova
Welp, just blew another +13 because the DPS can't figure out how target prio, kicks, or CC work.
Not to mention just low damage overall.
Where do these people even come from? How are they getting +13 keys with such dogshit execution?
Like - we died because the fury didn't kick a volley and the first pair of liches kicked the mage and druid off the platform because hurr hurr winds hard mechanic.
Also, frost mage meme.
Any mage still playing frost for PVE is lobotomizing their damage since no fire changes are going through.
ornate magnet
anyone tanked a 15dos and just straight up die to death speaker pack?
how are yall surviving that?
mild compass
I got heroic Stone Legion Heraldry tonight (220), thoughts on this trinket? Im currently using the Splintered Hear of Al'ar (213) and Blood Splattered Scale (210)
cinder nova
God damn I am just so tired of having to rely on stupid DPS to do a key.
How many people in your group also have SLH?
It's great for PVP on its own.
But it's not that great unless you got more people.
mild compass
I dont PVP and currently just run PUGs
cinder nova
Although if you're asking for tanking, the STR alone might justify it.
I'd probably drop Heart and keep Scale, but I'm sure the more versed players have a word or two to say about it.
undone jacinth
anyone tanked a 15dos and just straight up die to death speaker pack?
you pop everything and you hope for the best
don't go in to the pack if any member of the group doesnt have every button
ornate magnet
damn. everyone usually out of CDs, coming from the first lust pull
undone jacinth
I don't pull that pack 2nd
cedar rose
What mythic plus build are you guys running for damage? 13-15 keys
undone jacinth
if damage is all you care about then ravager/anger management
void moat
@ornate magnet the damage comes from the sword and boarding skeletons in that pull. I cant recall the name off the top of my head but they all do a 5yrd range magic damage instant burst. If u can, snap agro on them without getting too close to them (i.e leap over them into the middle of the pack and ravager or thunderclap).
I founs great success with that
I still save shield wall for that pull but i just grab as much agro as i can and stay away from those meele skellies
Ah here we are risen bonesoldiers
and their bonestrike
are what do me in in that pull because there's 3 of them
they instantly chunk you down for like 25k shadow damage the moment you pull
then just the rest of the pack hits you and you just melt
undone jacinth
its probably an interesting idea to slow them and slow kite them
void moat
@mild compass thsoe trinkets are incredibly solid for a lot of content. I'd say only swithc off if you are hyper confident but a lot of people are very into that
undone jacinth
but ur probably still getting hit a few times
void moat
The main issue is just getting your initial agro on them
Just get creative, tricks, Md ravager, capacitor totem, or some kind of stun to get a bunch of agro and just immediately leave
or another idea i was working on was stunning one with hammer
so i only take 2 of them
and it staggers
instead of coming in all at once
fringe marten
AHH AHAAHHl;askjflkj;asdfkj;f saljBAGAHH AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
I want to punch my monitor
I hate pugging I hate it I HATE IT I hate pugging low keys (10, 11, 12 etc)
one interrupt, ONE ...one ONE mob in necro wake, so he comes TO US so he gets killed. it's all I want..ALL I WANT to see happen
and TWO KEYS in a row, I'm losing the orb and we're dying because people can't interrupt ONE MOB
..sigh, I just want to cry or scream, or smash my face into a wall...or all three at this point.
Everyone else had a great week I hope 🙂
orchid frigate
interesting analysis on warriors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yxwRMAkRko
cinder nova
I want to punch my monitor
I know the feeling. I had a group throw a +13 because the mage was playing Frost still (????) and the Fury (lol...) warrior refused to use SR or kick in ToP.
The druid and mage got catapulted off by the first pair of liches with their wind tornado bullshit, the warrior died to a kickable volley without even using SR.
I was just... fucking floored.
Oh, and the lock was doing sub-par damage, big shock.
fringe marten
Frost mage is ok, honestly...fire is just way stronger. Basically it's the same thing between DH tank or Prot warrior. Can prot warrior do keys well? Yeah. Can a worse DH literally tank is better and do more dps? yup.
cinder nova
Yeah, they need to take DH down a rung.
orchid frigate
or buff others :p
fringe marten
Our frost mage in guild did the same. He really didn't want to do all the covenant swap/etc but Fire is SO MUCH STRONGER he just had to.
cinder nova
They don't like tanks doing damage, they wont buff us.
They've publicly said they don't like tank DPS meta, which I find fucking annoying.
fringe marten
It's legit stupid...in raid or especially M+
the damage discrepancy between fire mage/other mage.
orchid frigate
i dont want more damage, i just want the feel and flow from bfa
cinder nova
Feeling that flow means more damage.
fringe marten
We need more damage, or threat mod again.
cinder nova
Smoother rage gen, more uptime on CDs, AM getting rolled back to how it was before the nerf - all of it translates to more DPS even if you don't alter the actual damage values of a single ability.
fringe marten
If I ever EVER EVER have to even consider POSSIBLY asking dps to hold off, slow down...whatever..or I have to have aoe taunt ready (a 4 minute cooldown) for them to play their class 'fully' something is wrong. VERY wrong.
orchid frigate
we should get BoM as baseline 😉
cinder nova
BoM?
fringe marten
At equivalent ilevels/gear when my guild firemage opens up strong..some bits of that pack are going to peel off (early in the pull)
cinder nova
I usually have spear as an opener or Rav.
Even with hench mages I've never had an issue.
fringe marten
Ok so you're dropping spear before you can get off demo/revenge something like that?
undone jacinth
probs becauase 75% of groups have a hunter in now
cinder nova
I literally throw spear before I charge.
fringe marten
I don't, and rarely do have any form of threat boost from another class.
Ok so you're doing less damage, to just hold threat earlier
so...again, that's wrong.
I get that you're trying to adjust, so that's cool.
cinder nova
I mean, not really? How do you figure I'm doing less damage. The amount I'm doing is the same, but the DPS changes.
fringe marten
But my point is, we shouldn't have to do that..ever..for any reason.
If you're tossing spear on them before you've hit them with demo shout, you're doing less damage.
cinder nova
Pretty sure they changed damage boosting abilities to only affect actual class abilities, not stuff like spear or trinkets, or item procs.
fringe marten
We shouldn't be 'blowing our wad' (when it's doing less damage) on stuff at range, to have 'better' threat for when the real dps start pushing their buttons.
cinder nova
Besides, I use SoB offensively and defensively. The mastery is a lot and means you crit block more.
fringe marten
Ah you may be right about the spear/demo thing, but it'll effect your ravager/etc
cinder nova
I mean, who gives a shit. Rav damage is neat, but the rage is why you use it.
fringe marten
Yes, and it's a very short lived thing, if you're tossing it on mobs before you charge, you're missing second/s of the mastery boost to crit block.
cinder nova
Big deal. Having to wind up as Arms with CS and rend before I can BS feels like shit, but they still do fuckass loads of damage.
fringe marten
Please don't take this as I'm saying 'you're doing it wrong' I'm not. You're doing what you feel you need to, to hold threat. Do you see why that's so ridiculous?
cinder nova
No? I never sweat with threat. I just open spear/rav because those packs usually need rage and block before I connect because I will get pasted otherwise.
And I don't wanna have to blow a major CD to survive.
My biggest hangup is the way they deliberately de-coupled a really smooth playstyle instead of reigning it in.
And how they aren't making tuning adjustments to problem tanks.
Feels like Blizzard is banking on the "warrior scale with gear" behavior for us.
orchid frigate
guardian looks pretty interesting atm. a tank that actually can facetank
cinder nova
At the risk of narcolepsy.
undone jacinth
it just does negative damage
orchid frigate
just call for trees and go nuts
undone jacinth
is the issue
orchid frigate
hehe
undone jacinth
think monk is the most interesting tank right now, pumps super hard and has a decent skill cap
orchid frigate
yeah i play most on my monk atm
cinder nova
Warrior is mechanically and numerically in a fine spot. Fuck, it WF'd, so it's obviously capable.
But the issue is that it doesn't necessarily feel rewarding to play Prot anymore, and not being able to shine in a niche compared to other tanks feels shitty.
So we don't really stand out even though we're more than enough.
cinder nova
Nah. DH and paladin can do mongo damage, DH has pretty obnoxious self-healing, even by tank standards.
open monolith
yeah. tanking kinda sucks right now
cinder nova
Monk stagger is OP and they have good mobility.
cinder nova
Did they nerf it? Last I saw it was basically faceroll.
undone jacinth
SL put it in to the ground
and a ton of spells dont get affected by stagger
like the million bleeds in SL
cinder nova
I think my favorite bleed is the Stoneborn Vanquishers on SK.
undone jacinth
it scales with main stat so they get stronger as the patch goes on
cinder nova
Because you can't Phial it because it's not a bleed :^)
undone jacinth
SK?
cinder nova
Sun King.
undone jacinth
and prot definitely still stands out for blockable damage and spell reflect
it definitely has a niche
cinder nova
Not really. I mean, block is DUMB stronk, but physical damage is a contention for every tank, and every tank can tolerate it just fine (except maybe paladins and DKs atm)
And it's not like they're the big dick mitigation tanks they were in Legion, so it doesn't really pop as it once did.
undone jacinth
think u need to play other tanks more often lol
cinder nova
Also SR really only matters in M+ so far, which is great, but it's largely irrelevant content.
It's fun to push io, and the gear can be useful, but it's not like you have to time keys to get fat vault loot.
I think the most useful thing I've seen you can SR in CN is the traps on Heroic and Mythic Artificer.
Saves your raid immunes from having to dick around with it.
ionic fern
It's also just 20% flat DR on magic damage. 👀
cinder nova
Right, but having a mitigation cooldown isn't special. Pretty sure it's the only % mitigation on magic damage exclusively, though, isn't it? 🤔
cinder nova
Well, it's because other tanks can tolerate magic damage better.
Namely DH.
So having exclusive rights to the only % mitigation CD in the game means very little. I think it'd have a lot more kick if they actually let us deflect impactful mechanics.
ocean bloom
I mean at the CD of SR you can have the dr up for 90% of scary casts
cinder nova
True, but nobody picks up a warrior because they can big dick magic damage.
ionic fern
Everybody picks up a warrior for the boink sound you get when you block an attack.
ocean bloom
^
cinder nova
Savage Flurry in ToP with Shield Block rolling.
ionic fern
Satisfying.
cinder nova
ionic fern
It still hurt surprisingly much even through SB.
cinder nova
Probably at higher keys, then. I don't feel it too much at +13.
ocean bloom
I wanna change the sounds channel of the bonk sounds to make it the only sounds effect i hear
cinder nova
But I know the damage scaling gets bonkers towards 15 and up.
jagged pier
<@!179993058186625025> 😦
F
jagged pier
<@!179993058186625025> we out here
😮
cinder nova
But yeah - my main contention is that warrior doesn't have a major niche in the way some other tanks seem to possess, either through their notable raid utility, or the means by which they handle certain mechanics.
They're still powerful, and they can do all the content asked of them, just don't feel as satisfying.
cinder nova
I'd be okay with our middling damage the entire expansion if they handed us the huge mitigatory play we used to have.
chilly brook
Gotta play defensive
cinder nova
Because then it'd feel super rewarding for being a proactive tank again, and it'd show. I mean, it still does - lots of bad warriors are paper and people get turned off because of it.
jagged pier
Shame I won't be parsing high on Huntsboi
I do the dog so im always moving
cinder nova
I give dogs to my DH because I resent his big pee pee damage.
And I want his parse to SUFFER.
chilly brook
I'm dog boi now too
cinder nova
I will say that the best feeling for tanks is the loot bags from Heroics.
chilly brook
add spawns with basically no healing required though
cinder nova
And the free cash off the runes.
jagged pier
yer but all the moving just annoys me, and i know the spirit dogs dont actually count towards dps, but it looks cool
chilly brook
I'm a fucking masochist
ocean bloom
Anyone have any tips for timing cds on mythic hungering?
chilly brook
Trying to do 1-8 on my actual tank alt
ocean bloom
I can link logs if needed
jagged pier
Anyone have any tips for timing cds on mythic hungering?
what do u mean by timing cds?
whats your job?
ocean bloom
Like when are you popping wall and bolster
jagged pier
well you should be using them to fill the gaps in SB
chilly brook
I mean isn't Hungering pretty straight forward?
jagged pier
but if you are doing rip soul work around keeping them or having them back for rip souls
but you can also just have externals and SR for them
ocean bloom
Yeah thats why its weird I never feel like I NEED a cd but then shit gets spicy when I tank boss + expunge since thats when he's pumping a lot of autos
chilly brook
but if you are doing rip soul work around keeping them or having them back for r...
He's talking about Hungering
Not Huntsboi
chilly brook
Like just use them
jagged pier
but for expunge instead of ripsoul
ocean bloom
Okay thats what I've been trying to do. For reflecting expunge you do it before the buff goes out right? Or is it reflecting the explosion?
Nvm i found it in the reflect guide phone screen didn't have the full section lol
chilly brook
Their explosion
ocean bloom
Does it still drop an orb?
chilly brook
couldn't tell ya off the top of my head
jagged pier
i usually use mine to soak the orb tbh so i dont get knocked
deft sapphire
You can use it for the initial explosion or soaking the orb
So it’s up to you
Check their damage but I think it’s pretty similar
ocean bloom
Sweet thanks for the tips, also DH or Warr for ripsoul duty? Currently ny DH takes 1st one then I take 2nd and 3rd
I used to be a monk so I had it full time before with CB
jagged pier
it doesnt matter
cinder nova
The damage is similar, but doing the orb is probably best because when you're tanking running it out is less than ideal.
The damage from expunge is constant, but you're gonna have an orb in your stack, which some goofy DPS might walk into because we all know they tend to be legally blind.
jagged pier
exactly why i use it to clear the orb
cinder nova
Ye.
undone jacinth
orb is the priority
u wud only reflect before if it stopped the orb from spawning
cinder nova
You could reflect before as a DPS warrior since they take it out of the group.
So soaking orb for them is irrelevant.
undone jacinth
huh
undone jacinth
yeah dunno what u mean
jagged pier
more dps
cinder nova
You can still position in melee and drop an orb that's not going to intersect the path for either of the two groups or one of the volatile players.
So why take Expunge damage when orb is avoidable.
sick sentinel
anyone knows if there is a updated version of the spell reflect tracking WA?
cinder nova
Like - you could drop it smack in the middle of the boss' hitbox if you felt like it - nobody should be there anyway, but I have my DPS warriors just reflect expunge and walk away from their orbs while keeping uptime.
undone jacinth
i have no idea what u mean
u have to move for stuff
and orbs stay
so u want as few orbs as possible
cinder nova
??? Not really? Like, we never clear orbs and we never have issues.
If you're having orb issues I feel like that's your raid, not the mechanic.
jagged pier
we dont have orb issues as we move them out
cinder nova
None of the Fury/Arms in my group struggle with avoiding orbs, nor does anyone else in my group, and they stay in and SR the Expunge landing, not kicking their orb.
Only reason one of them might move out is to avoid getting smacked by a massive tank expunge.
jagged pier
good for your group then
cinder nova
The point is that you're SRing avoidable vs. unavoidable damage.
Why SR the avoidable damage when you can avoid it.
cinder nova
Lol how
deft sapphire
The damage of expunge on one dps is pretty trivial
Compared to clearing an extra orb
At least in my opinion
cinder nova
I mean if people can't see a giant blue ball and just walk around it, I feel like you got bigger issues.
If they slowly floated about, I'd agree.
Like - if they moved even a little.
But they don't - they're stationary.
undone jacinth
do you also not believe in clearing traps on xymox?
cinder nova
I SR clear traps because it saves immunities, which is more valuable and nothing else in that fight can interface with SR.
That said, I also only take like... one glyph.
jagged pier
some guilds have different strats
cinder nova
My DH does the rest.
cinder nova
Pushing arrow keys is a hard mechanic.
stark lion
Isn't SR off the global? There's literally no reason NOT to clear
cinder nova
There is if you're saving it for glyph.
undone jacinth
the just play around it argument
is so dumb
limit had a strat for clearing orbs and I bet you aren't saying that to them
deft sapphire
Someone dying from making a mistake related to orbs is more likely than expunge
cinder nova
In Mythic it's probably a priority. In Heroic it's a triviality.
jagged pier
right and we were talking about mythic not hc
stark lion
Even in heroic it's insane to argue about. Clear the things, it's effortless
undone jacinth
I agree
cinder nova
Again, the argument isn't over a tank doing it.
It's over whether or not a DPS warrior should be using their SR on the Expunge or the orb, but if your raid can avoid orbs without sacrificing anything and the Expunge is unavoidable, why would you SR the orb?
undone jacinth
because you will not die to expunge
stark lion
Expunge is trivial for healers.
undone jacinth
clearing orbs is better than anything else u can do
stark lion
orbs add RNG, expunge is predictable
deft sapphire
Like ease of execution is better than the perfect strat for most people
cinder nova
How the fuck are orbs RNG
deft sapphire
People don’t understand that
cinder nova
Just walk around.
undone jacinth
u just have the wrong mentality
deft sapphire
“Just walk around” have you ever puffed a raid
stark lion
^
cinder nova
I tell them the same shit. I'm not going to let stupid people who can't figure out where to stand to wag the tail of raid prog.
deft sapphire
Someone will get the laser and blink into an orb they didn’t realise
cinder nova
If you have to account for the lowest common denominator, raise that lowest denominator.
stark lion
"I think adding a bunch of things to a movement-heavy that you need to avoid is smarter than removing the things from the fight"
laff
deft sapphire
You are making it more difficult than necessary
lavish oracle
Wait, what else are you even reflecting?
deft sapphire
Rofl
deft sapphire
This is retarded
undone jacinth
it's mental
cinder nova
...if your raid can avoid orbs without sacrificing anything...
YOUR raid.
If your raid can't, then don't.
If it can, why would you?
undone jacinth
if your raid was so good you wouldn't be raiding heroic..
cinder nova
Because we have stupid DPS that get killed to Sludgefist rocks falling, and I'm actively lobbying to get them to buckle up or boot.
Rather than try to cater to that stupid behavior.
stark lion
If your raid can avoid all the orbs flawlessly, you'e not even killing Hungering at that point, because You're doing Shriekwing -> Sludgefist skip
If you're even bothering with Heroic anymore
cinder nova
We're planning doing skip runs so we can try to make up lost time in Mythic.
undone jacinth
it doesn't even matter if they can
there's no reason to make them
even if they can
lavish oracle
Just do what helps your raid the most, it's literally your one job.
undone jacinth
^
stark lion
My DPS loves to think and move as little as possible
There is no guild in the world that prefers to do a more complicated version of the fight for no reason
cinder nova
Dude, I hear melee moan how they have nowhere to stand while both tanks are literally standing on an island of clear space the size of our big toe. If we can see it, they can.
Especially when they box themselves in with mechanics.
deft sapphire
Why would I stand by the tanks
And get my attacks parried
And not soak the Venn diagrams with the raid
deft sapphire
Or I could sr the orb and have plenty of room and not have to think about it
It just makes it easier
You are minmaxing entirely the wrong thing
undone jacinth
that argument isn't landing mgll lol
making things easier instead of harder is not a goal
stark lion
Are you arguing against using SR to clear artificer traps using the same logic? "Why SR when I can save it to reduce damage in case I get hit by a beam"
cinder nova
That's a false equivalency. Traps require immunities or CDs to clear, they're not just damage, and you have to deal damage to subjects trapped to get them out.
Saving immunities for high raid damage is preferable.
stark lion
But your raid can play around traps
so ignore clearing them
when SR could be used elsewhere
lavish oracle
Hungering Destroyer does not do a ton of tank damage, why are you trying to eke out this modicum extra DR instead of helping your raid?
undone jacinth
because he has a toxic mentality
jagged pier
guys
undone jacinth
needs someone to blame
jagged pier
he was talking about a dps warrior doing it
cinder nova
It's not about tanks SRing the orb, that's a braindead conclusion.
jagged pier
and hes already said in mythic its a prio to do that which is what we were talking about to begin with
cinder nova
Except the raid actually needs space to move away from ghosts and turning is geometrically a longer path than just going in as straight a line as feasibly possible.
deft sapphire
Just ignore it and drop this dumb argument
jagged pier
but he bought up not doing it and didnt specificy difficulty
stark lion
Well it's also in the wrong channel then, if it's about DPS warriors.
So it's stupid in TWO ways
lavish oracle
I mean, DPS warriors should also still be doing it, probably
cinder nova
I'm just trying to figure out how you think a trap that can completely incapacitate a raid member is the same as an orb that does damage and a knockback? 🤔
jagged pier
damage can kill someone, but also like you said about the orbs, its static doesnt move and can be seen easily so just avoid it right?
lavish oracle
It costs you literally nothing to soak it so like, why not?
wild sandal
does SR work on traps in artificer?
lavish oracle
Yes
cinder nova
You probably want to save SR for glyph if it's coming up. Otherwise, yeah - just pop it if it's nearby. Moving the boss dramatically to get a trap is pointless and jerks your melee DPS around and actually does cause a DPS loss.
jagged pier
on one
wild sandal
oh wow thats cool
cinder nova
I SR nearby traps because my DH does all the glyphs, sometimes I gotta take one, maybe two.
cinder nova
The buff falls off when you reflect something.
The DR and the reflect are not two mutually exclusive auras.
lavish oracle
Yeah, I don't need the DR, I'm fine
cinder nova
The if you're fine, great.
Do that.
I know that I get nearly blown away by the things even with a full stack of IP, so I don't chance it.
When I get to the point where it's not life-threatening damage I might do the same, but then you're weighing the opportunity cost of how much damage you're DRing versus the trap clearing.