that's on you buddy
#protection
unborn coral
sullen valve
I approved MONK stuff
unborn coral
shoulda checked warrior stuff
sullen valve
Should have requested it
unborn coral
I did 👁️
sullen valve
Do you like my pr name tho UwU
unborn coral
😘
unborn coral
I aint double checking all hundreds of files 👁️
ionic fern
I aint double checking all hundreds of files 👁️
Warrior community is watching you closely for messing with our sacred Shield Block.
sullen valve
It was late i bet when it happened tbh since you had it right in other files. for some reason you gave an on fightend event to a player 
unborn coral
yeah that one was pretty late alphabetically so that was prolly around like
4AM
couple beers in
kinda started losing my mind towards the end of that PR cause I was committed to doing it all in one day and it's just such a mindnumbingly boring task
sullen valve
This is why we break stuff up
astral crystal
heady plaza
So whats the deal with blood getting buffed but not prot wr
undone jacinth
what if the only change they made was putting iron maiden back in the game
strong forum
yes plz
placid oar
Morning all!! Looks like our fury brothers are getting a buff.
I wonder if our damage would get some to stay competitive with the DHs and Paladins
lavish oracle
Seems like they're holding off on any significant tank or healer balance for now, as much as I'd like a little damage buff
steady spruce
We need something to be able to use SB and revenge on pull when avatar and ravagers aren't up
placid oar
Yea just a little would be nice
lavish oracle
Maybe not on par with DH and pally but just like a 5% -10% bump
placid oar
Does not feel good to see a ilvl 170 DH tank doing more or the same amount as a ilvl200 warrior tank
steady spruce
Wouldnt reducing rage cost on SB be a good idea ?
placid oar
Maybe not on par with DH and pally but just like a 5% -10% bump
That is nice too
placid oar
Wouldnt reducing rage cost on SB be a good idea ?
That would make us a little too powerful no?
steady spruce
I mean SB is already limited by it's cd more than because of it's cost
placid oar
Ah I see
steady spruce
I'm having troublz keeping aggro on pulls
Ans oftenly neess to chose between threat and mitigation
While most classes can do both
Because their ressources are different
lavish oracle
I haven't had threat issues and I run with a fire mage
I'm Usually sitting a little under 3k for end of dungeon
mighty valley
Mages are fine, a cast time is long enough to have threat established
I do have to work hard when a DH bursts their ass off as soon as I charge
mellow patio
That’s just a dh being an ape
When that happens I legit stop doing anything. Hands off keyboard. People learn fast
lavish oracle
Melee do that sometimes, usually they take a hit and figure it out, lol
sick sentinel
soo how do you guys handle the first 2 packs on dos?
mellow patio
Pull, cd, kite
mighty valley
not usually willing to burn my own key timer to teach a DH a lesson, lol
sick sentinel
ok so the 2nd pack(the group infront of akkar's room) i got 1 shot on a 12
207 ilvl
undone jacinth
CDs boi
mellow patio
Yeah, the pack fucks
undone jacinth
its ur only hope
mellow patio
You will probably need wall
undone jacinth
u do need wall
sick sentinel
used wall for the first pack
undone jacinth
skip the 2nd pack
mighty valley
CDs then start kiting when they run out tbh
mellow patio
Or do the first pull in 2 separate pulls
undone jacinth
nah
first pull
skip 2nd
kill mask
kill 2nd
or if u dont play wall lego, kill skeles
then kill 2nd
mellow patio
Kill evenly for pride, bingo
undone jacinth
u get the pride on the skeles
mellow patio
Not if you skip the pack
undone jacinth
yeah
undone jacinth
if u skip the big skeles
u get pride on the last 2nd pack mob
so u dont need to kill even
and u can also take the pride buff in to the hakkar hallway
then u get the next pride for the mechagon hallway but thats a bit questionable
mellow patio
Yeah you’ve lost me
mellow patio
I mean yeah if you don’t have cds defo don’t pull it
undone jacinth
tbh the play if u can control ur count well is probably just to do ardenweald first
if ur confident in pulling the right 250 mobs in ardenweald
xd
then u will have cds for all front of hallway packs
mellow patio
You will also know early if you wil fail when your group inevitably trolls you in ardenweald
Sounds efficient to me
Lmao
mellow patio
I have it down to a science now
undone jacinth
til a hatchling sneaks in to ur pull
mellow patio
But man it took a lot of runs
fringe marten
Depending on strength of the key though; if you come back to that pack before hakkar hall..and get pride on it, will your group be running dry and weak for the pride? or easy enough to recover? Pride 'starts' easy but gets nasty fairly quick
but that's a good idea to skip that pack..I keep mashing my face into it, asking for externals/etc since shield wall is down from pull 1.
Is it easy to just skirt around them?
undone jacinth
yeah its easy
fringe marten
I'd assume you have to jump up on the railing to the left right? if you run forward of it don't they aggro? or no?
undone jacinth
and on a 12 i dont think pride should be any issue even with no cds
fringe marten
even with some surgical shit..like charge in, interrupt shadowcore, shockwave the adds..then use a lined up reflect...it's STILL super nasty after that.
no not a 12..thinking higher than that though.
undone jacinth
I mean if uve got a hunter or a mage or something
they will have something up for the pride
even if its half way in to it
fringe marten
But will ..one of the raptors or something ? (are there any there? or is it all scribes?) land a spell that you reflect, before you reflect all the scribes at once?
undone jacinth
minute mage op
fringe marten
Because I always try that thinking it'll work, I reflect some stuff..but it's still beast incoming damage.
undone jacinth
well they have like a disease bite thing
fringe marten
Sidenote: this trinket that popped up today, it's low ilevel but is 422 vers , 12 seconds...90 sec reuse...decent? I'm about to get it any test regardless. But I think pure ilevel/str is an issue.
undone jacinth
so u may reflect that
fringe marten
Right, but will it burn reflect, if they hit it before the scribes?
undone jacinth
yeah
fringe marten
...fuckers.
I haven't really scrutinized that pack in a details log, I just know wihout a serious CD and immediately running away that pack will roundhouse your face off in the mid teens.
undone jacinth
skipping will also let ur dps 3min cds come back up
which will probably help
I assume bringing a boomkin may help too or getting ur shaman to pre-ele on pull
fringe marten
Yeah, I always just tackle that pack second..and I think I'm just being stubborn and not stepping back and finding a better way.
steady spruce
Hard cc the scribe so you only reflect the big caster
And do the fisrt interrupt on big one on charge
fringe marten
You can, but I prefer interrupting him, shockwaving the scribes..and lining up a reflect on all of them.
Right ^ that's what I do
steady spruce
What i find hard is seeing wich way he's facing for his aoe
fringe marten
But after that..it's still run time lol.
Yeah but he doesn't open up with that cast until a few seconds into the fight.
you're already collecting the pack in front of you..and running away
Anyone messed with this 'flame of battle' trink?
naw nm.
That's the sad thing about any of these 90 sec, 2 min trinkets...If you're using one for defense, it's either bloodscale or Sire trink. If you're using passive it's stone legions (91 vers perma is a lot better than 422 for 12 seconds every 90) or the Putrefaction/gluttonous spike..etc etc
Usable/active trinkets you use as a burst or defense..you aren't trading bloodscales shield for 422 vers..so bleh
And can we please stack harvesting enchant with stat enchant; why do we have to get boned as a str class..and have to carry a pair of harvesting gloves?!
fringe marten
Well me too; but Str classes have to put the stat enchant on gloves. Where as other classes get to use boots and bracers/etc
So we have to carry and swap a seperate pair of gloves for herbing/etc. Which is just annoying
and has also lead to me tanking Mythic shrieking with my 184 harvesting gloves..and doing a key with 'em on 😛
undone jacinth
just got to last wing of theater with 12min left
and the healer goes 'gg key is dead' and leaves
lmao
fringe marten
I don't care if you DID fail the key, if you've gone through 2/3 of that dungeon..just finish it?! WTF?
undone jacinth
we're making fine time
fringe marten
Was this a very high IO rated player and only doing this for score? or was this some pug moron who just made up and excuse so he could insta leave?
deep phoenix
people doing this left and right, dont understand why. had final 3 pulls of nectrotic wake 10 with 10 minutes left and this hunter says "didnt realize we had someone too low ilvl to be here" then leaves
was gonna time it easily
fringe marten
Oh I'll tell you why..the majority of people who do keys at ALL are doing it for loot, if you fail the timer the loot is cut in half, so their chances of getting the trinket they have a diamond hard-on for...is 'less' so they pout and quit. Of course leaving is 0% chance..sooo?
native geode
yea mythics have been very toxic for me aaswell
deep phoenix
yea but, we were gonna time lol
this has happened 4 keys in last 2 days for different dungeons. its a trend apparently.
fringe marten
Then I dunno what's going down with that. Decently IO'd folks are going to stay usually if you've pushed most of the way through the dungeon.
Now if a group is doing it only for io score, doesn't need gear..and you're just collapsing before/by the first boss? yeah they'll dip on you
Someone joining only for score, pushing tougher keys and knowing it's beyond the tank/route/dps whatever to time it will bow out. But if you're clipping through and then they just go "BAH can't time it..bye" I've never even seen that.
jolly spindle
idk but i wanted to help my friend get some gear in a key
and we had a warrior stack
vestal moat
No real solution other than to run with guild or friends.
fringe marten
Not to mention anyone who's done a decent amount of keys has timed something with seconds left. So if you haven't had wipes/deaths and you're coming into the last third of the key with 12 mins? you're fine.
fringe marten
Ok but ..dude. If you have 50 deaths in an M5; that's super duper bad. There's some tremendous fundamental issues with ..probably everyone in that group.
fringe marten
?! You did an M5 with only 3 warriors?
fringe marten
Was this for some youtube meme video?
jolly spindle
no but i recorded it it was fun af
seeing the healer be so mad that he stops moving mid pull to flame
and dies to margrave tentacle
fringe marten
Well if you went in with the intention to bang around and have fun regardless; that's fine. But you can do a 5 man plate stack with an actual viable group and wreck 5's, 10's..whatever you want.
I've left ? like 2 keys ever. One I left in shadowlands a couple weeks ago. The group had meh io, but had experience a lot of keys run. So I joined to push it up/try for an item from that dungeon.
jolly spindle
im so glad they didnt leave
thats the most fun i had in m+
in m10 + people leave all the time its sad
fringe marten
What they DIDN'T say in their group descrip...was they were carrying their buddy mage, who was literally brand new to the game. And they weren't that strongly geared, and the healer was wonky AF. So it was this horrifically long slog of like an hour to get half way through plaguefall..and I quit. I told them you can't 'inflict' that kind of waste of time on someone when they join and don't know you're helping someone who is literally worthless.
If you're going to hard carry a corpse like that, you have to build the group with friends/people who know what's going down.
But all plate dps and a paladin healer can easy clap at M5+
At least you can do a 5 plate stack; chain classes are boned with that.
undone jacinth
Was this a very high IO rated player and only doing this for score? or was this ...
he needed the dung - I think he was just legit retarded
like he actually thought it was gone
some people seem to associate dying with failing the key
we had 1 death but idk
fleet pier
just got keystone Master as prot warrior, dreams do come true
woven kiln
undone jacinth
what is the next fort week
spare cobalt
undone jacinth
thats pretty nice tbh
if ur ranged
bets on next week being like tyrannical bolstering storming or something
undone jacinth
celestial
rigid kettle
You can see what next week will be
fleet pier
fuck i meant i got keystone master, just now as prot, not conquerer
doesnt feels as special now
undone jacinth
ballin
fleet pier
signet
hoary relic
lol
fleet pier
not joking
fleet pier
those are "meta" legendaries, but boring
hoary relic
:lul:
hoary relic
what if my healer isnt great but my dps are
fleet pier
you run
hoary relic
e.g. should optimzie for defensive and not offensive?
fleet pier
always offensive, dmg = speed
fleet pier
now were talking
fleet pier
signet offfers new gameplay and makes thegame more fun, also viable for arms pvp and dps arms/fury my favorite pick
fleet pier
nice way to get instant threat
dense flame
Is TC pretty chill as prot?
fossil valley
fringe marten
Would the 5% mainstat from Celestial Guidance? weapon proc, outweigh the damage on Lightless force in Torghast? or does Lightless scale properly and is always stronger?
undone jacinth
usually it would only be effected by vers
so celestial should be better
but I just use celestial for everything anyway
fringe marten
It's still a great enchant, super DUPER cheap compared to lightless force. But lightless is still more damage currently in M+. Does it also hold true on single target? Guess I can sim
undone jacinth
I'd be surprised if you had any reliable numbers to support that
and lightless gives you 0 defensive value
pretty sure they will be almost the same for damage
is just pointless running lightless imo
grizzled forge
So with that one legendary if you cast avatar it has a chance to cast ravager and vice versa even as prot? Seems pretty decent no? For keys that is
steel mauve
it doesnt cast ravager
doesnt work for prot because dps ravager is a different spell than prots
it will only bladestorm or recklessness off avatar cast
grizzled forge
It says on the spell ravager recklessness avatar
undone jacinth
it doesnt for prot
grizzled forge
There is a guy here tanking for my buddy in keys and he is running that leggo and he says that avatar is proving ravager and vice versa for him
Procing*
grizzled forge
None the less of avatar procs recklessness doesn’t that give you 100% rage regenerate aswell?
If*
undone jacinth
thats not something recklessness does is it?
but u will almost certainly be hitting 100 rage on pull anyway
pastel sleet
yes that is what recklessness does. it double rage gen and gives small crit
undone jacinth
oki well is pretty irrelevant
grizzled forge
Anyone know how the renown gear works if you upgrade it to 190 and then switch covenants what happens?
Ya but then you could get bladestorm aswell for big dam
And you can still do everything in bladestorm other than kick
undone jacinth
u cant use offensive abilities
solemn magnet
@grizzled forge I have kyrian covenant gear on my priest then switched necrolord. without doing any necrolord stuff, i'm still able to wear the kyrian stuff
chilly brook
Layer 7 here we go
chilly brook
Is TC pretty chill as prot?
On layer 7 still have yet to have issues
chilly brook
and ppl on here flame me
I haven't seen that, it's definitely not the "best" pick but it's still a pick that will likely produce the best damage results even with it being broken
dense flame
Legit. Thanks man. Any tips besides normal shit?
chilly brook
Just pick whatever boosts your damage tbh
You'll passively get enough defensive powers thrown your way
undone jacinth
have had multiple ppl say how its bad, does nothing, less damage than TL etc
chilly brook
plenty of mawrat or defensive power options
I'd like to see definitive proof of that
limpid pawn
hey, do you guys have any invites for m+ high keys community?
undone jacinth
definitive proof of what
nom is one of them
hes done it like 3x himself
lol
his view is it is 'illogical to ever use it'
chilly brook
Of it doing less damage not of what people have said
chilly brook
Technically his statement isn't wrong if you apply the "highest difficulty level" as his "playing seriously"
I just wish it worked properly tbh
wheat sleet
how does signet interact with prot anyways? Does it only proc off avatar?
undone jacinth
I mean the prot warrior who has done the highest difficulty
plays with signet
so
limpid pawn
what is signet?
undone jacinth
not really anything to test that theory either
stark ruin
Dps leggo
limpid pawn
is that the one that activates the other 2 cooldowns
wheat sleet
yea
chilly brook
I mean the prot warrior who has done the highest difficulty
I'm aware, but that doesn't mean it's optimal
You can still block, IP and DS in Bladestorm
wheat sleet
you can still parry and use defensives afaik
chilly brook
Do it all the time in TC
undone jacinth
yeah im aware
but saying its 'illogical'
etc etc
is different from saying something like it's not the best defensive choice
or whatever
chilly brook
The biggest int is you don't get much in terms of rage gen during Bladestorm
limpid pawn
i wonder why they top guy uses it over the wall or thunderlords
chilly brook
Because arms
void moat
I was playing signet and the problem wit it i found was bladestorm doesnt even really doooo that much damage. I get more from my thunderclap plus it procs more stuff
limpid pawn
thunderclap feels underhwleming
limpid pawn
we need a return to the style of play from bfa IMO
adjust the damage and whatnot but make it competitive and fun
void moat
I didnt say it does more
Just that it gives u more stuff. It was just didnt feel OVERWHELMINGly over thunderclap
To warrant a lego for it
If that makes sense
Plus not being able to interrupt
Is the hard reason why i hated it
undone jacinth
the problem is none of the legos do that much for u
unless ur having to wall every pack
to have a chance
chilly brook
we need a return to the style of play from bfa IMO
Idk I love the current style
void moat
Losing the ability to interruot and stun (even if u macro in the cancel u lose the whole point of ur lego)
I too like the current style
I like getting creative
chilly brook
the problem is none of the legos do that much for u
I mean TL is pretty significant
undone jacinth
is it though
chilly brook
Yes
void moat
Omg the wall is amazing
chilly brook
Higher uptime on DR and damage increase is significant
void moat
Having sheild wall for every other massive pull in sync with my dos and their major 2 min cds is huge
nimble drift
I got a 220 weapon and a 220 shield. Thinking Im goin arms for the vault next week
go for a 2H
void moat
Go for it!
undone jacinth
depends what we mean by significant but personally when I have TL on a boss fight or something I wonder why I'm using it
chilly brook
It's a good thing most of M+ is trash
chilly brook
The numbers speak for themselves from logs of TL vs non TL
undone jacinth
so what are they then
lusty grotto
@ionic fern can probably fill you in on the math
silk crane
hey friends, quick question i couldnt look up - is bumping item level for wep and shield like a noticable bump in tankiness/dmg?
silk crane
okay, thank you
chilly brook
Plenty of logs you can dig through tbh
undone jacinth
idk what ur trying to show from these logs
do u think the TL gave sense 60 extra casts of revenge?
chilly brook
And his damage is significantly higher and damage taken is significantly lower than the guy with Signet
lusty grotto
if youre gonna nitpick
lusty grotto
im gonna side with nome
youre not looking for a way for us to show you why
so its pointless
chilly brook
You're gonna tell me
82% uptime
isn't significant
82% uptime
of 20% less damage taken
and 20% more damage dealt
Please
Like I said the logs speak for themselves
lusty grotto
griff why do you even bother lol
chilly brook
We dropped 80ilvl in 8.0 to have DC and similar uptimes
lusty grotto
how many people have we had over the course of this disc that do the same thing
chilly brook
Or
14 casts of shield wall
almost doubling what you would have had available to you without the wall
in that 40m time
undone jacinth
so like
this is the problem
u just link a log
but like
using TL right?
21%
bit of a difference to 80%
undone jacinth
do CN have lower CDs?
undone jacinth
oh wait
u linked a log
that was trashes and boss
from raid
LMFAO
aite
we just out here pulling up whatever
lusty grotto
If you are looking for 2 different logs with absolutely the same pulls, same timing, but different leggos in an effort for us to prove why TL > Signet, i'm not sure what you're expecting here
gotcha griff
chilly brook
If we just look at trash
undone jacinth
not helping
chilly brook
it's 44%
undone jacinth
I meant it wasnt helping because u said CN
and that means china
as well as nathria
Idk why ur being such an asshole
lusty grotto
500% true
go do the Signet thing, its your sub
nobody here has to prove absolutely shit to you if you dont make the effort to understand what is being linked
undone jacinth
I'm gonna go ahead and block u
lusty grotto
horray
undone jacinth
griff look at the debuff bar there
on ur log
look at the up time bar
u see the issue @chilly brook ?
lusty grotto
griff you know i had to get toxicchip out
chilly brook
Different dungeon but ok
undone jacinth
ignore the dungeon
chilly brook
And longer
chilly brook
Why don't you just explain it to me instead of playing games
undone jacinth
^
ur argument is that this guy maintained 100% up time for almost the whole dungeon
it seems?
lusty grotto
so dense
chilly brook
Then tell me what's wrong with the log
inland mesa
It disproves his point
chilly brook
Also functionally, TL functions like DC
inland mesa
;)
chilly brook
It doesn't add to the current time
It does however increase the overall uptime because it reduces the CD significantly
Something we have in the past valued extremely high
undone jacinth
look
if u change the start time of the log
u can do this
but then u move it a bit forward
look what happens
92% up time oddly becomes 17% up time
incidentally if you do the same thing to the log I gave you, nothing changes
undone jacinth
u see?
lusty grotto
im going to sleep, have fun griff
chilly brook
Regardless from looking at logs even on the low end you're gaining almost 1/3rd more casts of Demoralizing Shout
lusty grotto
just tell him to stand on the tanking dummy for 3 hours
with or without TL
that should be enough proof, since no variances occur
undone jacinth
there is a mob in PF that bugs the up time
look
same problem
wait is that same log
I got like 70 tabs open
chilly brook
Or having almost double the casts of shield wall
Than you numerically would have otherwise
undone jacinth
look here u go
another log
not broken, same dung
and I gave you the other one earlier
and I showed u ur log actual up time
it changes DS up time from around 15% to 17-21% based on the 5 logs I have looked at
chilly brook
Without The Wall
undone jacinth
from ur original TL 80% up time argument
chilly brook
Cuz it's well over 2k
lusty grotto
the fact that he keeps saying "u" and "ur" triggers the shit outta me
undone jacinth
so you don't think TL is significant?
chilly brook
When I literally said right after it's still 1/3rd more casts than without on the low end
undone jacinth
so you do still think it's significant
chilly brook
Yes
chilly brook
Doubtful it's "just" 3-5%
chilly brook
Considering Sense has around 16% without it
wheat sleet
isnt uptime going to decrease the faster you kill the mobs though?
lusty grotto
yes
undone jacinth
uhh
lusty grotto
there's a shitton of bullshit happening on a key log
undone jacinth
depends on exact timing of the refresh
lusty grotto
to make any semblance of a point
undone jacinth
if they die right when the 2nd one ends thats probably max
spice rivet
getting declined from so many keys im bout to go prot to get declined as tank at 1.2k io too
lets get it
undone jacinth
on all the 3 logs I linked there's around 17-21% up time, so it is between 1-5% increase if ur using ur sense metric there
if u think that significant then fair play to u
round vortex
Griff you know over the years we’ve disagreed on almost everything you’ve said. To the point where I remember you out of the 1000’s in this discord. Not today.
Today, the person I think is the biggest flog here has changed. Sorry for the back handed compliment. But dam this dolphin dude is on the gear.
chilly brook
With sense's log it would go to 21% if he were using it
But uhhh let's put that in perspective
lusty grotto
lmao i mean hes getting a 1-5% increase
undone jacinth
you mathed that?
lusty grotto
jesus fucking christ
chilly brook
Yes I did
wheat sleet
but uptime doesnt take into account the rage you're gaining 🤔
chilly brook
assuming 1/3rd more casts
wheat sleet
or am I missing something here, im pretty sleep deprived
undone jacinth
ok based on the data that's a pretty reasonable assumption but obviously that isn't actual mathing it
but 21% seems reasonable
chilly brook
So doing the actual math
undone jacinth
Griff you know over the years we’ve disagreed on almost everything you’ve said. ...
ive provided links to everything i'm talking about, all u have to do is read
undone jacinth
depends whats in those 2 minutes doesnt it
it could be completely insignificant
or reasonable
undone jacinth
well if ur cleaning up the pack when u actually get ur reset
then its different to on pull
where ur getting merked
like if ur kiting for sanguine or something
undone jacinth
does that not make sense?
chilly brook
Literally don't need to prove that our legos are significant any further
undone jacinth
yeah I mean you opened by saying that hte numbers already proved it
then linked to numbers that were off by 4x
so clearly the grounds for proof are low
undone jacinth
it's just what happens when people make hard claims
without actually knowing the data they are talking about
mellow patio
It’s also just what happens when people argue with everything another says
chilly brook
One wrong claim doesn't invalidate several minutes more of uptime that fucking 5% equates to smh
jfc
undone jacinth
yeah that is real
and it's good
but imo it's not significant that's all
I've played with both and I don't feel hamstrung either way
lavish oracle
is this a TL vs The Wall argument?
chilly brook
is this a TL vs The Wall argument?
apparently none of our legendaries are "significant"
precision of fucking language
There's a difference between significant and required
lavish oracle
The Wall's uh...pretty big
mellow patio
Tbh all prot legendaries are underwhelming
mellow patio
But there is no legendary that is not significant
lavish oracle
I will say, bear legendaries are fucking stronk, though
mellow patio
Bear bears fuck dude no lie
wheat sleet
would be kinda dumb if any one legendary were mandatory
undone jacinth
isnt really about being mandatory
its just about how much it enables
like aza's point, two bear legos enable keys for you
unkempt fox
Am I wrong using TL on fort and wall on tyrr?
undone jacinth
imo warrior legos don't do the same
chilly brook
You can fucking do 15s without legos and covenants doesn't mean you're not significantly better off with them
Here you fucking go
2 minutes more of DS
undone jacinth
right?
chilly brook
is noteworthy
undone jacinth
yeah well then we just disagree
chilly brook
2k+ rage and almost 2x the casts of Shield Wall is noteworthy
You can't debate that
lavish oracle
@unkempt fox I just use the Wall at all times, tbh
but also I don't think using TL is like "wrong"
undone jacinth
I actually said earlier the exception is if u need wall all the time
but in lots of cases u dont
chilly brook
For someone who says I like to be the "contrarian" you certainly seem to be filling that role just fine yourself
lavish oracle
There's no drawback to using wall as a substitute to shield block at any point
undone jacinth
I just disagree when people make definitive statements they can't back up
that's all
lavish oracle
like there's no reason not to cast it every time it's available
undone jacinth
ur 5% is actually 1.5min on the average length of the logs we linked as well btw
chilly brook
As if more casts of Shield Wall and 2k+ rage doesn't enable shit in keys
smh
I mean Sense's log was a 40m dungeon
So no
it was over 2 minutes
lusty grotto
It just occurred to me that you might actually get numbers running simcraft
chilly brook
40 minutes and 34 seconds
lusty grotto
Tell this kid to run simcraft with whatever leggos and he can see how much they factor in for SW uptime and/or demo (with mwahis acl)
chilly brook
And 1.5 minutes is still fucking significant
lusty grotto
Spoiler alert its not gonna be a 1 to 5 percent increase for demo
undone jacinth
in ur opinion
undone jacinth
As if more casts of Shield Wall and 2k+ rage doesn't enable shit in keys
I think this point will be reached but we're not currently there yet imo
chilly brook
I should have been done with this TC run already but this fucking stupid ass discussion
wheat sleet
mellow patio
I have a question
chilly brook
I think this point will be reached but we're not currently there yet imo
You're shitting me if you don't think more casts of shield wall doesn't mean more risky pulls even in lower level content
lusty grotto
NO HAWGS
mellow patio
Who cares about this?
undone jacinth
us clearly
fallow mortar
mommy and daddy are fighting again
mellow patio
Then make a discord channel and argue in it
undone jacinth
it's literally a discussion about prot legos
lusty grotto
Tell him to simcraft it hawgs
mellow patio
A worthless argument about prot legos
lusty grotto
He blocked me lmao
chilly brook
A worthless argument about prot legos
I'm done I'm going back to my run
undone jacinth
You're shitting me if you don't think more casts of shield wall doesn't mean mor...
ofc it's the safe option, but it's not necessary
mellow patio
do u think ur contribution is better
Easy there tiger try not to get mad. It spooks people away from a community when they come here and see people arguing
undone jacinth
right well sorry for offending u
but I provided links to everything I was talking about
and explained what I was saying
mellow patio
I’m not offended. I’m annoyed
undone jacinth
I didn't insult anyone
it's funny how nobody comments about people saying "fucking idiot" and stuff yet people do comment about someone disputing logs etc
wheat sleet
I for one enjoy the fiery passionate discussions
lusty grotto
chilly brook
ofc it's the safe option, but it's not necessary
Yea go gear for mastery and get rid of your haste so you're not running the safe option
mellow patio
Listen here nerds only one allowed to be toxic in this discord is me
lusty grotto
Excuse me
undone jacinth
funnily enough I do gear for mastery xd
mellow patio
And nim
lusty grotto
High five hawgz
mellow patio
High five brug
undone jacinth
there's a difference between being safe and and too safe though
mellow patio
Is it over?
undone jacinth
u can come out from behind the sofa
lusty grotto
I suppose that's the end of it, I can screenshot the mastery comment for the hall of fame
mellow patio
Yeah that’s good content I support it
Nim this community wouldn’t be this way if you never played classic
lusty grotto
Sir I play both now
undone sun
lusty grotto
Lmaooo
mellow patio
Thyme is just always there to peepo hide when you need him
lusty grotto
That's why he's father Thyme
lusty grotto
Have I told you guys about the great Stabchip
undone jacinth
whats up
lusty grotto
Wielder of the mighty Kingsfall
lavish oracle
Kinda glad fury is getting buffed, cause all I have is big 1 handers
lusty grotto
Yeah I'm glad they are tbh
rough egret
Is it enough ?
lusty grotto
I absolutely hate fury since vanilla but shit
solar crown
Link to changes? :o
rough egret
8% flat buff
lusty grotto
8% dmg increase iirc
lavish oracle
Makes them pretty comparable to arms in raid for most situations
wheat sleet
not yet
solar crown
Aiit :) ill look into fury then, havent been playing dps at all since arms just dont feel fun to me
lusty grotto
Lol
What was the Russian dudes name, I forgot @undone sun you know the one avocado or whatever
undone sun
Alavisto
undone sun
Lmao
lavish oracle
I have like a 171 honor 2 hander that I've been pvping with but it's not good
undone jacinth
u can upgrade that to 184 right?
lavish oracle
Ye, but it costs many honors
undone jacinth
did u spend ur conquest on prot stuff
lusty grotto
lavish oracle
Yeah, nabbed the trinket and the shield
I'll just roll through some low keys as fury or something after it's buffed
Get a 2 hander that way
I could do it as prot but eh
lusty grotto
undone jacinth
I have done like 30 7s or so on my alt and not got a weapon yet
might not be that reliable
think I have nearly 100 on my main and I have seen 1 weapon
lavish oracle
I will bully my friends into swapping loot specs to help mwahaha
undone jacinth
solid play
lavish oracle
And by bully, I mean I will ask them very nicely and they will say 'yes, okay,' because they're good people
zenith monolith
Can someone please explain to me what this hype is about Demon Hunters and Mythic+ ? I main prot Warrior and pushed some keys with both classes. Apart from chains & silence, utility whats the difference ? Are DH's defensively or offensively stronger or ?
jagged pier
more damage, takes less damage and heals itself more utility
well takes less damage for less work i should say
glacial flint
nice potential suicide ?
marsh shale
nice potential suicide ?
took that too, wasnt so bad
nimble drift
I had a shaman in my mists run with a weakaura that was showing the route
Like he was saying "circle_filled_flower"
tribal whale
hi, have someone the route for mists 10+ ? (mythic dungeon tool)
chilly brook
Yes
It's the Pog emote
Should be animated cuz good old nitro
Glad to see Dorki is back to his bear
@mellow patio what am I missing how do I enjoy bear plz halp
undone sun
Matt do u hsve a pic if gootecks
that is a good question
ionic fern
<@!238357283996696576> can probably fill you in on the math
Math on what?
chilly brook
Math on what?
I'd assume the math on the uptime increase with TL
chilly brook
You missed a positively riveting conversation
chilly brook
Because apparently neither The Wall or Thunderlords are significant
chilly brook
Just dolphin being dolphin
ionic fern
@undone jacinth ?
undone jacinth
whats up
ionic fern
The Wall or Thunderlords are not "significant"?
undone jacinth
I think wall is if u need it
ionic fern
o.o
chilly brook
I mean like doubling your shield walls in m+ and 2200 more rage throughout the dungeon wasn't significant enough
undone jacinth
also from the logs we could find the up time was more like around 16% to 17-21%
chilly brook
ionic fern
And you do not think doubling up time on a 20% DR + 20% damage increase is big?
You do realize that logs also take "downtime" into play right?
undone jacinth
ofc
chilly brook
Plenty of time moving pack to pack
undone jacinth
and I don't think that's that significant no
ionic fern
Ok well that's up to you what you personally believe.
Just don't spread that nonsense in a public discord.
🙂
undone jacinth
I mean it's subjective
it's not nonsense
the only nonsense was the original comment about 80% up time
if it was that significant then people wouldnt be doing the top keys with signet :/
undone jacinth
if the highest key in the world is timed by a guy running signet
what's your argument
ionic fern
The same as it has always been "anything works up to a certain point".
undone jacinth
so the certain point is above anything being done right now?
yet we're giving advice implying it's already here
undone jacinth
jeez
chilly brook
if the highest key in the world is timed by a guy running signet
The highest key in the world was timed by a guy playing a DH
ionic fern
Who is this "world first" warrior pushing keys with Signet all the time?
chilly brook
A guy who rerolled iirc
ionic fern
undone jacinth
shuib obviously rerolled but was and I believe the highest timed key atm is a 19 halls by pika
where hes using signet
chilly brook
void moat
He doesnt use signet when he tanks
ionic fern
R.io does not show the things USED in the run.
It shows what was used when logged out in most situations
If you watch ths tream
He is using The Wall.
chilly brook
undone jacinth
okay? shuib was still doing it anyways
on 18
so 1 key level on an easier week
with more gear
chilly brook
Just because someone did doesnt mean you should
undone jacinth
it means you can though
chilly brook
I accidentally ran with NS
Doesnt mean you should
You can be Venthyr and still tank high keys
Doesnt mean it's better than Kyrian or NF
ionic fern
Your arguments are just dumb in the content of tanking/general population of this Discord.
Like 99% of the people do not have access to world class healer/dps players who know what to kick/CC/focus and do decent damage.
And stating that doubling the uptime on a 20% DR/damage increase in such an environment is just blantly wrong, not even "subjective".
undone jacinth
99% of people arent doing content where its hard enough for their choice to matter
chilly brook
We're also conveniently ignoring the rage compared to signet......
void moat
Yes they are. Thats why they are here in yhis discord to ask questions and improve
undone jacinth
how many people do you think are pushing above ksm in here
void moat
Plus the wall just makes it easier as ur entire mythic team is learning
undone jacinth
and like I said already, if u need wall, wall is good
chilly brook
The Wall is good even if you dont need it tf
void moat
Then why did u say its not significany along with TL
undone jacinth
because most of the time u dont need it
chilly brook
You can make situations where you "need" the wall in more trivial content
And it benefits your run
undone jacinth
and do you think that's happening
chilly brook
I don't "need" the wall
But when its up that's big pull time
Like idk why that's hard to understand
And it's not like you're gimping yourself either to do it
Because you generate so much extra rage with it
Big pump
undone jacinth
I have no problem with anyone running it..
ionic fern
This discussion is dumb.
The Wall / Thunderlords both provide a ton of rage and a ton of uptime on our strong defensive cooldowns.
undone jacinth
I mean you literally started it
you tagged me and started it up again
for no reason lol
chilly brook
It is...
Its not
The Wall and TL are objectively better for prot
And will continue to be
undone jacinth
I don't think you understand what objective means
undone jacinth
and my argument wasn't even ever about what's better
undone jacinth
yes
undone jacinth
for example with bear you wont see anyone running a random dps lego like circle at the top keys
because their legos are significant
ionic fern
AIght, this discussion is done now.
void moat
That just looks loke backpeddling by him lmao
undone jacinth
you mean restating my exact point?
void moat
I just think dolphin saw u lay down yhe numbers and tty yo salvsge his point to not look wrong
Time for bed
undone jacinth
nobody laid down any numbers
im the only person who has properly reviewed logs in this discussion
after I was told it had 80% up time
I'm very open to someone giving me numbers, that is what I'm all about
ionic fern
If this "TL/The Wall" are not significant is brought up again i'll just mute the participants for a while.
If people do not think increased Rage gain and access to cooldowns which provide 50% DR or 20% DR and 20% damage increase more often and spread it in public discord where people are looking to learn is insignificant then actions will be taken.
If you personally want to use Signet, go for it.
undone jacinth
if people are looking to learn they should have it explained to them not given a blanket response about what bis is
chilly brook
undone jacinth
that things are situational and X is the situation where you use them
just like when people ask what enchant and most people respond lightless
because they are clueless
so that person goes away not understanding what enchant they should actually have
because they don't get given the context
ionic fern
Aight, i cba.
You were the one stating legendaries are insignificant and now you're talking about situational usages.
chilly brook
In what world is 5 more rage on shield slam and potentially doubling your shield wall casts situational
chilly brook
It's basically just default pick
undone jacinth
and griff said the logs proved it for themselves, so I asked for the logs and he gave me wrong logs
that's how all this came about
if people knew what they were talking about in the first place none of this happens
it was one passing comment that meant nothing
undone jacinth
yes and the logs you posted originally showed like 25min of additional uptime
that was what started everything
chilly brook
You keep focusing on that one thing because it's the only shred you have that you're correct on
undone jacinth
if someone isn't allowed to make a passing observation that they don't feel like legos are significant compared to their other characters, wtf is going on? so many people come in here saying 'i feel squishy' or something
when they are just playing bad
I'm not broadcasting it to people as my gospel
twilit siren
what's your best alliance race for protection? Kul tiran?
jolly thistle
dwarf
light quartz
I remember hearing one of the top warriors on rio complaining that the wall was 'bad' for keys because you spent way too much time kiting for it to be meaningful and then proceed to keep going with signet. I think in the end it will depend on your group, keylevel and playstyle.
chilly brook
what's your best alliance race for protection? Kul tiran?
In the long run it shouldn't matter but I would say probably dwarf because of how valuable a self cleanse is
ionic fern
Aight, this dicussion is over now @undone jacinth @chilly brook .
If you want to, go move this to DMs.
undone jacinth
I remember hearing one of the top warriors on rio complaining that the wall was ...
exactly, context, perfect example