BV?
#protection
empty sedge
jagged pier
booming voice
empty sedge
oh, thanks
jagged pier
what talents is he running?
empty sedge
that helps alot. ill pass the info for him. im sorry, im just trying to help him
jagged pier
if he cant hold aggro hes probably not using revenge enough
and favoruing TC over it which is a no no now
empty sedge
hmmmm, idk for reals, hes not online at the momment, he was a bit frustrated because he doesnt know exactly how to kite and keep aggro during +10 and stuff
TC?
jagged pier
thunderclap
jagged pier
do u guys log your runs?
nimble drift
I got the front and back end, but it ain't showing people's kick timers and shit
chilly brook
did you install libgroupinspect from your addon manager like it said to in the WA?
nimble drift
π no
chilly brook
Well there's your problem lol
lavish oracle
So okay, here's a question
I don't see this being particularly useful
but with Kyrian Transport network level 3
could you run out of an M+ key, use the transport network, run back in with unburden and skip to the first boss?
frail saffron
do we ever take dragon roar
jagged pier
nope
jagged pier
it was a 1dps increase for me
sweet summit
So i cba
jagged pier
when i simmed it
jagged pier
well with tunderlord you should always run BV yes
jagged pier
sims 40 dps higher for me now
frail saffron
does 50% shield wall effect on party members affect all raid members or just the 5 ur paired with
ionic fern
5
frail saffron
damn
jagged pier
party pretty sure it says party right?
lavish oracle
To be fair, rallying cry is already pretty strong
I feel like raid wide 25% DR would be...absurd
frail saffron
its the only reason i have a spot in the raid 
jagged pier
I'm the AP buff 
lavish oracle
fuck it, take what you can get
jagged pier
we have 2 shammys dont need shout when you have link
but me being in the raid is good even if the other tank complains XD
glacial flint
what legy u guys running for the new torghast area ? ill got my signet r4 because im dps ventyr main.. thats good .. (but can craft now more) .. but im interested what u guys use π
lavish oracle
I just run the wall because I'm too cheap to build a different leggo for it
jagged pier
i mean i have the wall equiped for everything so i guess ill use that in twisting corridors
frail saffron
how much does it reduce the cd on avg?
glacial flint
@lavish oracle yeah saw that on RWF tanks in raid.. but in torghast mostly u got free / perma shieldwall proccs too.. so can be a bit waste
lavish oracle
I'd probably go seismic reverb in torg if I already had it built though
frail saffron
<@!107299379173453824> yeah saw that on RWF tanks in raid.. but in torghast mos...
thunderlord is perfect for torghast
jagged pier
I would run the revenge one in torghast is i had it prob
frail saffron
with the buff increase from shouts
lavish oracle
yeah, that's seismic reverb
steel root
is there a point where we should stop stacking haste, or just keep stacking it?
lavish oracle
defensively, it's always gonna be valueable
jagged pier
but dont drop ilvl for it
glacial flint
I'd probably go seismic reverb in torg if I already had it built though
does it procc from the shieldslam does WW anima ?
jagged pier
unless its rings or neck
steel root
Even with diminishing returns, hey? Aight, I'll keep stacking it hahaha
jagged pier
Even with diminishing returns, hey? Aight, I'll keep stacking it hahaha
well you want 160% haste
so keep going my dude
lavish oracle
@glacial flint It should, the shield slam ww already procs all the other ww effects
steel root
You got it, cheers fellas
strong forum
<@!226142673298391041> It should, the shield slam ww already procs all the other...
Could you possibly stack enough of those to get 2 WW to proc with 1 SS? π€
jagged pier
u can get it for one WW per SS i know, ive done it
glacial flint
kinda waste... there better anima ^^
glacial flint
i mean ill can hit for 100k+++ condems tho who cares WW
lavish oracle
@steel root There's probably a point where you want to stop statting defensively and start statting offensively and that's probably the same point you want to stop statting haste
strong forum
Can't touch that meme wing until weekend
jagged pier
^^
strong forum
Not enough care
jagged pier
^^
glacial flint
<@!155518236383772672> There's probably a point where you want to stop statting ...
haste is offensiv too btw .. 5Head
jagged pier
mastery is better though
lavish oracle
yeah
jagged pier
already is
strong forum
When people reach keys where they can't live tank busters π
lavish oracle
Haste is our 2nd worst simming offensive secondary iirc, too
strong forum
Sim aoe and then haste will become better
In ST crit and vers have been dominant in bfa
Now it's prolly crit mast
All the way for max St simpad
frail saffron
i might be doing things wrong but i feel like i get shattered as prot
i use mitigations n all
in m+ i mean
frail saffron
awkward silence is deafening
jagged pier
i might be doing things wrong but i feel like i get shattered as prot
logs?
strong forum
On a serious note, there's a lot of things that play into your survival that's of no control of your own
jagged pier
^^
lavish oracle
Mhm, when things go right, I feel much tankier
We have a lot of tools to handle things on our own though
As far as kicks are concerned
AoE stops and the like
frail saffron
why as prot u lose piercing howl tho
ionic fern
Cause you got TC slow.
frail saffron
hmmm
jagged pier
but poor mitigation choices turn no inturpts and cc into a much worse thing
frail saffron
Cause you got TC slow.
fair point
lavish oracle
Honestly, Unnerving Focus is weird because it makes last stand look like a really good option against magic damage when things aren't getting kicked π
fringe marten
HM.. I've had a 213 gluttonous spike for 2 weeks now; and I thought it was meh? From looking at details. But for the heck of it, I threw it on in torghast...I should have read the descrip on that trinket better. It's meh in challenging content; it's amazing in Torghast.
fringe marten
Like..it's bleh in keys, maybe ok in a raid? RIGHT
Yeah in Keys..you ain't gettin' the overheal effect.
In torg...it's pulsing around me constantly.
lavish oracle
how are the overall healing and damage in keys with it?
fringe marten
It says 'suppress the lifesteal effect' But does the DAMGE proc also occur on top of the aoe pulse??
frail saffron
spike doesnt seem good for prot since u prob will be less than 100%
fringe marten
I MUCH preferred using Stone legion trink @220, and a 207 vial of putrefaction.
Normally yes zhin, but not in torghast.
frail saffron
exactly
shrewd bronze
With Thunderlord, for m+, do you guys run bolster or anger management?
ionic fern
Bolster.
fringe marten
In torghast you get so many wonky super ignore pain procs and other stuff that basically makes you godmode; so you're topped ALL the time, stuff barely hurts you once you get some decent powers rolling...even on the highest layers of the normal wings.
lavish oracle
Bolster is gonna always be the best defensive option
fringe marten
You have to run bolster in keys...you just have to.
jagged pier
With Thunderlord, for m+, do you guys run bolster or anger management?
bolster in any challenging content AM in none challenging
ionic fern
BEcause you need the extra SB uptime.
ionic fern
AM does not reduce DS anymore.
fringe marten
Because when you don't have shield block up, you get Bootyslapped
ionic fern
So there's no synergy.
ionic fern
Outside of the UF (which is bad).
fringe marten
Having a full 15 seconds of shield block, along side that 30% extra hp/heal...wooo.
shrewd bronze
But I mean, aren't you supposed to be kiting anyway?
jagged pier
EW dont even say UF Mwahi
ionic fern
But I mean, aren't you supposed to be kiting anyway?
In HIGHER keys.
lavish oracle
You don't really kite all the much
jagged pier
But I mean, aren't you supposed to be kiting anyway?
in like +14s and higher sure
are you doing thoughs levels?
shrewd bronze
In HIGHER keys.
Yeah I'm doing 15 and higher, so should I take anger management?
fringe marten
Not all the time; I full face tanked a 13...? uhh TOP earlier. (couldn't remember) like.never kited..ever.
strong forum
If you have block up you don't need to kite.
lavish oracle
like, you do kite, way more than you did in BFA
strong forum
^
jagged pier
^^
shrewd bronze
Aye I've been taking bolster so far
fringe marten
Even in higher keys, when you got some cooldowns running, or got a decent external...and shield block? You can face tank for a bit.
shrewd bronze
But was curious cuz most of the time I'm kiting anyway
fringe marten
And yeah, sometimes you may have to use it JUST to heal yourself, a 30% heal on 2 min cd is stronk.
strong forum
And gargons
ionic fern
I just did a +15 yesterday and kited..one pack. π
fringe marten
Yeah, like..if it's all physical hits..like half of ToP is. I'm just facerollin' it.
jagged pier
And gargons
true
fringe marten
If it's a pack of Shadow casters and Scribes in DoS 15..ok NOW I'm kiting my toes off.
ionic fern
Oh, in DoS you kite jeah.
shrewd bronze
Well this week yeah, last week I was mostly kiting due to necrotic that's why I mentioned
frail saffron
And yeah, sometimes you may have to use it JUST to heal yourself, a 30% heal on...
meanwhile pala word of glory 
shrewd bronze
meanwhile pala word of glory <:weird:718676218500874320>
Pala isn't great for m+ though
ionic fern
Out of curiosity - what do you think AM would give you ? o.o
fringe marten
Look...I know there's other tanks in the game. But we don't speak of them..
ionic fern
In kiting situations.
shrewd bronze
Didn't even kite that cuz treants and 2 shamans and Kyrian potion
Not Kyrian here, it's offspec
strong forum
F
jagged pier
F
shrewd bronze
Out of curiosity - what do you think AM would give you ? o.o
Pretty much more damage with more avatars honestly
jagged pier
^^
fringe marten
On a side note.. BRUH...in raids this week, being able to have Stalwart guardian, +AM..
shrewd bronze
Not always?
fringe marten
HOLY SHEET shieldwall is like a 60 sec cd
frail saffron
Pala isn't great for m+ though
neither are we
ionic fern
More often than with Bolster.
jagged pier
so less damage
ionic fern
Bolster gives you more uptime on packs.
And more damage.
If you kite you can't generate rage.
Meaning some AM goes to waste.
shrewd bronze
On tyrannical weeks I don't feel like I need Bolster, can take AM to get more avatars for bosses and stuff. Bolster wasn't doing anything for me on Necrotic last week either which is why I asked
That is specific to necrotic though
So I wondered
blazing gale
necrotic is very specific affix to play around
fringe marten
in raids now, even in our mythic prog...I'm running all dps talents, but ITTF, The Wall, Anger Management..and the Stalwart Guardian conduit...I just friggin ENGAGE with shield wall now. It'll be back in a minute..literally..
I'm at 41%? haste I believe with ITTF...it's almost feeling like BFA gcd's again.
fringe marten
Yeah it's like "WHOAH shield wall is back up again? FK it..pop it.."don't bother healing me ..just dps for a few sec" even on like Sire, etc.
fringe marten
I knew the stalwart guardian conduit would be good, it's another thing though to really see/feel that in actual gameplay by having shield wall back up that fast.
Plus that center defense column has Road of Trials....which is quite nice in keys.
I tried also using the 'right' column, with Disturb the peace socketed in. 17 second shockwave refresh is spicy.. I really wanted to run that side for keys; but stalwart guardian+ that run speed boost is just too good.
I haven't tried my left column yet..with show of force.
But I have a very strong feeling, it's not going to make me swap off the center column.
fringe marten
Zhin, if you aren't focusing on trying to do mythic raiding or challenging keys...you don't need to go kyrian. Enjoy BigBoi executes.
and teleporting
I would be lying if I didn't say I was hopelessly addicted to Fireblood/ Kyrian Phial for raiding/keys at this point. Like..I don't know how I'd handle some encounters without it (you of course can, but I'm just used to being able to do it a certain way now..because of those awesome crutches)
hollow zodiac
it's a decent trinket right? thinking to replace my 190 decanter with it
ionic fern
That's why i've been dwarf since forever now.
hollow zodiac
yeah I would use it if I had it
but that sounds like a useful trinket to mitigate big packs if LS/SW not available
frail saffron
I would be lying if I didn't say I was hopelessly addicted to Fireblood/ Kyrian ...
this isnt helping me to not want to switch π
hollow zodiac
long CD though I agree
fringe marten
I mean..it's nice. There's something to be said for just putting up a big shield and filtering 'some' damage with it instead of all..so it just smooths out damage intake for a bit, instead of blocking a chunk and going away.
But I would think bloodscale would just be better in? most use scenarios.
Yeah mwahi..you raid tank as well?
fringe marten
like...Do you swap the first bear on Huntsman altimore? nope... Do you taunt swap General Kaal in stone legion? nope... Do you get to just delete the bleed caused by people mongo'ing Imaple on phase 2 of Sire? yup...transitioning to mid for p3, if you get stacks of bleed? yup..
Like...? What do if don't hab?
The patch notes just before Shadowlands went live said they stopped dwarf racials from curing a bunch of the effects in the raid, but they left still quite a few in. That means in beta dwarf racial was deleting like...every mechanic basically?
I'm guessing they did that to give the phial more value honestly.
ionic fern
Phial has also been removed from some now tho.
glacial flint
it's a decent trinket right? thinking to replace my 190 decanter with it
yours is looking weird π§
fringe marten
where are you seeing that btw?
I looked over worldmap (specifically for WQ trinkets) before going into torghast about 10 mins ago
(still in torgh right now)
hollow zodiac
it's a worldquest that popped up this morning in Ravendreth
fringe marten
Oh, i had to work..might be gone by now?
hollow zodiac
nah should be there still
brave jetty
Does anyone have a non-skip HoA route that isn't complete ass? I see a million different routes for this place and so many of the ones I grab are so awful in practice
glacial flint
Oh, i had to work..might be gone by now?
no it just spawned ^^
fringe marten
oh cool. Btw I finally killed a subjugator and only took 1 debuff. They're easy to dodge but by the time I even realize it's 'one of those mobs' I've been hit by his debuffs. I only took 5% damage reduction..so I decided "eh I'll try out Subjugators Manacles" HOLY SHIT BRO is this a strong power.
jagged pier
Does anyone have a non-skip HoA route that isn't complete ass? I see a million ...
people have skip routes in HoA?
fringe marten
If you just keep moving while fighting the subjugators it's easy to dodge 100% of their mechanics.
but yeah..losing 5% of my damage is still worth having this ability.
brave jetty
Yeah a lot of people invis pot or shroud a bunch of mobs before Echelon
brave jetty
I'm just trying to find a consistent, pug-friendly route and I'm completely at a loss, every route I grab has like one or two major thread-the-needle-with-aggro parts that people fuck up and then prideful timing is way off
fringe marten
Like this is so busted right now? I'm just walking around and my gluttonous spike is pulsing all the time, so it's triggering the "when first engage enemy dot them for 4460 and silence them" I'm just walking through floors clearing them, and only the 1 or 2 elites are left in the room
jagged pier
I dunno never had a problem
brave jetty
That's cool, I asked for a route
brave jetty
Dratnos' for this week?
jagged pier
nah will be from weeks ago
brave jetty
Ah
jagged pier
no point in changing somthing that works
jagged pier
mines close to that tbf
brave jetty
Do you just literally drop straight down after 2nd shard?
ionic fern
Idk
brave jetty
And then have no room to move for Sang?
ionic fern
I don't do that route.
wintry jetty
I do drop, and it's not very pug friendly :p
brave jetty
Yeah the drop is a fucking disaster every time
I just can't find a route that doesn't go totally wrong in that 2nd -> 3rd shard area unless you're going way the fuck over on %
wintry jetty
2nd to 3rd is ok to me
at bottom of stairs before 2nd boss, instead of the two in the corners, take the 2 south of pink circle
fringe marten
I know you're supposed to get OP in torghast but some of these combos are Bnaynays
wintry jetty
drag one gargoyle up and you have pride on top of the stairs for boss
fringe marten
So looking at details on this boss fight; I don't think he ever hurt me, I had giga auto stacked ignore pains..so both the pulse and proc damage from gluttonous spike was going simultaneously. So ONLY the heal portion goes away.
...damn. I mean you will proc it in keys sometimes, you'll be topped off..mobs will be stunned, etc..
I may have to give it another real shot
onyx matrix
Is that french?
warm thunder
Yes :c
twilit siren
Vers 16%/8% is okay or I have to put more on it?
ionic fern
Vers 16%/8% is okay or I have to put more on it?
You don't need a specific amount of Vers.
undone jacinth
And then have no room to move for Sang?
Replace the green pull with the 5 mobs between blue and orange packs
then do them first and use the courtyard to drop sanguine on the packs after
twilit siren
You don't need a specific amount of Vers.
with haste and less vers i;m 3-4 shout at +11-12 m+
when I change the gear (rings) i can handle it better
ionic fern
3-4 shout?
What?
You mean 3-4 shot?
So you die fast?
That's 100% a gameplay issue.
So you're doing something wrong.
If you can provide Logs/Vods we can take a look.
twilit siren
i dont have logs for m+. maybe its my gamestyle but I checked it yesterday all day and today. with haste rings x2 im so weak. and with 1 haste and 1 vers ring im too much better
ionic fern
Okay, facts:
Changing 1 ring around won't make a significant increase/decrease in your survivability.
There are other things to consider:
Are you playing the class correctly?
Are your DPS players interrupting important things?
Are your DPS players killing things fast enough?
etcetcetc
There are a lot of variables.
twilit siren
okay i got it thx for the advices
are you playing with Wall or Thunder legendaries?
for M+ im talking
sweet summit
I think im at 20% as well
hasty quest
Is it mastery valuable? Cause if I sim on raidbots mastery and crit are the best stats
twilit siren
I;m playing with 17 haste, 31 mastery and 16 vers
i have 150 mastery from the hc neck. I have to change it as soon as possible
zealous saddle
jagged pier
are you playing with Wall or Thunder legendaries?
the wall 
shut sonnet
Wrecking pain (Sire Denathrius) is said to be able to be reflected in the spreadsheet, I've tried it yesterday few times but it never worked, guess the spreadsheet isn't updated?
dry spear
the more defense option is the wall instead of thunder right? i wanna dip into mythic + as a tank and dont want to use the signet
fringe marten
LELLL 1.19 million damage revenge..
strong forum
the more defense option is the wall instead of thunder right? i wanna dip into m...
Nobody is too certain on that tbh.
I prefer the wall cuz I don't like the 4min CD on SW and the 5 extra rage on SS is good QoL
Only thing that is certain is, that thunderlord is more damage than wall
dry spear
Nobody is too certain on that tbh.
I prefer the wall cuz I don't like the 4min C...
thank you very much.
fringe marten
I did a key with my rank 2 thunderstompers, and my dogshit shoulder...instead of the wall. I tell you what..you will find yourself going "..why don't I have as much rage as normal? I can't revenge/IP as much..? I feel starved.."
sharp crescent
Main problem of the wall Imo is that we don't use anger management in m+
So it's still long to get SW anyway
ionic fern
I did a key with my rank 2 thunderstompers, and my dogshit shoulder...instead of...
π
I'm swimming in rage.
sharp crescent
Don't have rage problem either with thunder. Are you using ravager?
fringe marten
after playing with the wall for so long; it's just hard to give it up. And like Nom said, even without coupling it with Anger management. You have wall up like half as fast...it becomes like 2 min'ish
Yes, and dumping it as fast as I can
fringe marten
it's more like, I'm used to hitting shield wall and immediately being able to revenge, or block..if I'm low, or whatever...and without the wall I hit the slam and sometimes I can't immediately do another ability I want to do.
You just get used to having that extra rage each time you slam.
not shield wall~ meant shield slam
Again I know people don't like to put much stock in 'feel craft' But when a certain gear loadout plays a certain way..then you swap to another loadout that's supposed to do something different/better..but I don't really feel it.
I don't see me doing much more dps on my zonewides, I don't feel any tankier with demo up more often
I know..shield wall isn't up nearly as much, so I had to kite more..
sharp crescent
Yea less cd on SW would feel great but yup wouldn't put it on CD anyway... So Idk
fringe marten
Just saying that regardless of any simming numbers, or details DPS analysis.. Thunderlord vs Wall didn't feel...stronger/substantially more dps...
You kinda' are using SW on cd.
You're probably gonna' pop it when it's available, and dps's cd's are up
so you can hold the pack and face tank/dps longer.
And even without AM just the wall cuts it in about half..it's up like every other pack or so. So I have the option to use it much more..so I do.
And I found I far preferred that over what Thunderstompers was doing for me.
ionic fern
As i said.
use what ever.
So much discussion over this.
Gotta break the spreadsheets out
Smh.
fringe marten
Yeah; that's just my personal take on it and what it was like when I finally got to field test and compare both.
LOL 80 anima powers..not even done with this layer yet
This is bananas.
valid scaffold
is Kleia viable or just Pelagos all the way? the poison and bleed inmune 8 sec + 5% crit sounds good but idunno.
jagged pier
kleia alright shes not bad
jolly thistle
the first trait from kleia is utterly useless tho, compared to pelagos
small cloud
I thought tormented kings was suppose to give rav procc if specced rav? or well as prot anyways
jolly thistle
Once both are fully unlocked, theyβll be closer together in terms of performance
jagged pier
I thought tormented kings was suppose to give rav procc if specced rav? or well ...
nope
small cloud
dont really wanna bladestorm as my opener on a pack, god bless
jagged pier
I mean you can block, IP defnsive during blasestorm
small cloud
o u can?
jagged pier
yer
small cloud
ima bladestorm away then
sick anchor
what potency conduit do yall like
jagged pier
my covenant one
sick anchor
for 2nd one, execute or revenge+thunder clap
jagged pier
revenge + TC is like not a dps increase but would probably run it in dungeons
and execute for raid if i had slot 2
amber herald
wish it was thunderclap increased your damage of revenge
strong forum
Same
jagged pier
same
onyx matrix
ya lol
hasty quest
Are this stat right?
strong forum
You don't really care for stat weights, but yes
smoky wave
For pelegos, there any point taking the first potency conduit given the poor second options after the covenant specific ones?
fallow mortar
you just want the one potency conduit for your cov ability and then not think about grabbing a potency conduit again
smoky wave
The guides seem to take the first potency one on the left, and also the mandatory one later in the tree.
jolly thistle
Our conduits arenβt game changing, take whatever you want. I went with double def and one potency
smoky wave
Fair enough. Ta. Did find it a bit odd, but guess it doesn't matter
undone jacinth
Prot conduits are garbage overall
strong forum
Conduits aren't game breaking or influencial
undone jacinth
best one is a finesse xd
valid scaffold
Can you heal yourself with Valiant Strikes?
jolly thistle
yes
jagged pier
i mean they do heal you
jolly thistle
the worst thing is the 1min cd
that you canβt even get stacks while itβs on cd
valid scaffold
its says that you wont get heal but i assume that you can still get stack while in debuff 1 min
jagged pier
nope
jolly thistle
no you canβt
valid scaffold
that sucks
jolly thistle
valid scaffold
total healing? of the trait?
undone jacinth
it healed me for 50k total and my team for some
jolly thistle
mastery from pelagos is king. Itβs up when you need it the most. And after that youβll be kiting anyways
f*** kiting 
broken stratus
Feeling extremely squishy in 17.....only time I can stay in to take some hit is with shield wall....
Is it better to get more mastery or more vers?
ionic fern
That's weird.
SB is like..40% DR depending on your shield level.
Maybe it's some casts going through or poisons/diseases not being dispelled?
undone jacinth
I mean 17 is a range where ur gonna be hurting without being geared
strong forum
You're always gonna feel a bit more squishy going from tyr into fort weeks maybe it's just your imagination aswell
undone jacinth
true, I did the triple pull at start of mists without thinking then remembered it can hurt on fort
I also hold all my heals for my necrotic reset... ptsd
anyone tried the meuhzala tech of max melee range to dodge the soulcrusher?
muted pendant
My group died - was too far π
jolly thistle
true, I did the triple pull at start of mists without thinking then remembered i...
the 2 small patrols hurt a lot. They apply a dot on whoever they jump. Probably your healer was busy af and you didnβt get much attention
chilly brook
Feeling extremely squishy in 17.....only time I can stay in to take some hit is ...
That doesn't sound right, although I'm not doing 17s but I cant imagine its orders of magnitude worse than 14s
jolly thistle
The difference from 14 to 17s is +152% to +217%... itβs more than noticeable from my experience
chilly brook
It's also highly dependent on dungeon
jolly thistle
all depends on your gear level of course. If you got lucky with mythic drops or do a lot of high rated pvp, you probably outgearing already
chilly brook
PF feels like aids rn
Β―\_(γ)_/Β―
I'm running a 223 shield too so take it with a grain of salt
alpine lichen
been told into the fray is quite good a talent due to the max 10% haste increase, now i got 17% unbuffed, going for the 20% cap, what then is unstobbale force sheit now? and should i go for ravager? or stick with into the fray to gain 30% haste in fights?
alpine lichen
haste
chilly brook
And what content are you doing
alpine lichen
raid
jagged pier
haste cap 160%
chilly brook
For raid ITF and AM
jagged pier
for easy raids
for progress you take bolster
or fights like sludgefist where you tank 100% of the time
chilly brook
ITF is just the pick for raid because it sims higher for single target
alpine lichen
Roger thanks
chilly brook
Ravager is great but more of a m+ talent
jagged pier
its only a 40 dps lose for me in sims tbf
chilly brook
Kinda curious where you got the haste cap thing from
jagged pier
it better than UF thats 200 dps lose
alpine lichen
Was just told by a friend i should go for 20% haste lawl
jagged pier
LUL dont listen to him
stark carbon
He plays arms maybe? π€
jagged pier
maybe
manic perch
Hey gents im struggling to decicde between Wall and Thunderlord, i will mostly be doing M+ and maybe later raiding but hard to decide, any opinions?
chilly brook
Tl
jagged pier
your preference
stark carbon
Go leaper
manic perch
do you then skip bolster?
jagged pier
no
chilly brook
No
jagged pier
you take bolster for hard hitting content, higher keys, progress raiding
and you take AM for farm raids andf low keys
manic perch
lol
manic perch
struggling to get used to devestator talent and not having that button to spam π
guess wall is the safe bet
jagged pier
but how have you been pressing devastate anyway its pretty much a waste of a gobal like 8.0
pseudo raptor
I just switched to that last night. Itβs going to take some getting used to but so far itβs nice.
manic perch
haha will try that π
undone jacinth
I donβt get when people were actually pressing devastate
strong forum
When you didn't have SS, TC, Demo or Revenge to ready press π
sick sentinel
only reason i could think is it used to apply sunder when talented and no rage no cd ability that does some damag
and possibly it could have reset SS cd or, but it was and probably is still bad
undone jacinth
yeah just some people talk like it was common rotational thing they were using
strong forum
Well it is
If you don't play devastator, you will have less SS to press, thus you are more likely to press devastate
In m+ you'd end up with close to 100 devastate casts, maybe more
wild violet
do we rate any of the darkmoon trinkets?
jagged pier
the haste dps one is alright
astral crystal
@shut summit AM the go-to for inerva mythic?
jagged pier
logs saying bolster is run 69% of the time
astral crystal
yeah, i see it's run more often
jagged pier
but depends right AM is gunna help with the dot damage more
astral crystal
lala and sense run bolster tho just wanted to hear about their experience with it ποΈ
jagged pier
could be going for logs on farm bosses though 
jagged pier
dont look at my hc logs then
have you seen his gear though its like all 226 pvp gear XD
undone jacinth
pvp and the auction house
looting in 2021
sunmmarised
not good for a player who hates pvp and has 1.5k gold
jagged pier
same
loud mural
Is Into the Fray better for M+ or Unstoppable Force?
restive flax
Ravager
jagged pier
ITF and rav are both better
restive flax
If you run Thunderlords you could do UF but... I like Ravager
jagged pier
no its not a could its still a dont
the synergy is there, but the TC and UF nerf make it not worth
restive flax
fair
undone jacinth
& AM nerf
forest fern
Any one had any experience with moving the boss through the mirrors on heroic denathrius? He seems to wreck me when we hit the other side and you always come through with your back facing him etc. This just a "healers need to have you topped" sort of thing?
jagged pier
you need to turn as you run through
as they tp behind you
if you out range the bosses on that fight they will tp behind you
so just turn around the moment you go through
forest fern
i mean i've back walked through it with the boss in my grill and as soon as the port happens it faces me the other way
so just turn around quick is the only solution i guess
undone jacinth
set ur camera to not adjust
jagged pier
people still have self adujst camera?
forest fern
its already on not adjust
jagged pier
yer but in all seriousness as you out range the boss when you go through
it will always tp behind you
they dont go through
they tp as you outrange them
going through
forest fern
ahkay, i guess maybe i'm just getting too low before the transition then as everyone is on the run
undone jacinth
The boss does hurt
jagged pier
^^
undone jacinth
when ur all moving u need to use something
forest fern
well yeah cause the boss isn't using the mirror he's literally just teleporting from the other side of the room to you
undone jacinth
healers wonβt be healing u
forest fern
yeah that's what i figured
i guess being closer to the mirror might buffer the health loss more before a transition happens, we were more than 20yards away from it most times
undone jacinth
yea I literally stand in the middle of the mirror and just move him to the edge for the frontal
forest fern
i mean i was wanting to do that, but the melee bitch about not having it on the adds to get cleave damage in
jagged pier
we tank it on the adds
undone jacinth
I meant after adds
forest fern
ahkya
undone jacinth
the adds die so fast
forest fern
good idea, thanks for the suggestions
we haven't got there yet but i've been told he hits really hard in p3, is it major deal as warrior?
undone jacinth
mmm
I wouldnβt say itβs how hard he hits thatβs the problem
thereβs just a lot going on
jagged pier
he hits really hard his dot really hurts, the healers have far too much to do
the last phase is a shit show for healers
on the first 3 kills i died just to not being healed
as too much going on
uneven mason
if you out range the bosses on that fight they will tp behind you
The TP does a bunch of shadow damage but can be spell reflected as well - is gud.
undone jacinth
if you swap before the tank combo I think the dmg isnβt really too bad tbh
but the whole raid is getting slammed so ur kinda on ur own
forest fern
so swap on 5-6 stacks and before each combo?
jagged pier
swap when it falls off
undone jacinth
usually 6 but tanks can avoid stacks sometimes
forest fern
well i mean if the combo is coming and the tank is at 3 stack, do an early switch?
jagged pier
nah
undone jacinth
the timing works out consistently
undone jacinth
once u do it once it will work out at around 6 stacks
but try to just use the timing of the combo more
forest fern
k sweet, thanks again
undone jacinth
and go room side of him before knock back :p
jagged pier
or charge back
forest fern
ya i have some in there that have the placement map for him to avoid throwback issues etc
undone jacinth
my charges bug in that room sometimes
donβt get los during knock back
jake what does ur raid do on the last hand of destruction
have him on the edge cd and pray?
jagged pier
we pray basically
but we never get there with a full raid
we probably wont get it if we did
like we had 5 dps dead from the first massacre last night
and it was still our fastest kill
jagged pier
well yer we have like melees should saok at this point and orbs should be close at this point
never fuking happens
would be a lot better if we did do it
we pretty much wing final phase
jagged pier
yer
undone jacinth
finding mythic a lot easier than him still tbh
jagged pier
it is
the first few anyway
which is how is supposed to be
he should be harder than the first few
undone jacinth
feel like first 5 or 6 tho
jagged pier
dunno maybe
im dont mind i like it
people i know that progress hc are looking forward to it, as its actually a challenge compared to previous expansion bosses
they used to quit etc cause hc took like 2 weeks to clear, they like its taking a bit longer
and i mean take my guild like half a raid night to clear full hc
now we have skip
so probs just gunna clear last 2 now
undone jacinth
maybe it just feels worse because it comes after generals
I do like the sire fight though, something for everyone to do
errant python
Iβm going to lose my mind running gorechop... that conduit will not drop for me
unkempt fox
@jagged pier you have to kill shriek and sludge to use the skip
signal plover
I've heard that as well, anyone got a solid source on it?
unkempt fox
I did it on Wednesday myself
strong forum
Ye you still have to kill those 2 to get to slg and donny
jagged pier
still better than clearing the whole raid
uneven mason
still better than clearing the whole raid
βοΈ All the long running
Once you have bosses on farm the majority of CN full clears is literally walking
uneven mason
dynamically paced event.
autumn pendant
@sweet summit play prot
surreal kindle
Need a fill in tank for a guild raid. Progression from HC Hunter and onward after full normal clear. Anyone up for it? I got an exam during raid time so I can't attend.
Raid is at 18:45 GMT. Message me if interested. EU HORDE. Should know what to do for all of normal at the very least.
lime urchin
what talent setup + trinkets + legendary do yall pick for yer torghast runs?
earnest frost
anyone running the revenge legendary with best served cold?
fierce tendon
anyone running the revenge legendary with best served cold?
no do thunderlords for aoe instead tbh
earnest frost
for m+ mainly, do u also run ravager with thunderlords
or is unstoppable force still what ppl run
strong forum
Yes ravager
fierce tendon
I run ravager
sweet summit
<@!165864577760755712> play prot
strong forum
UF is dead
fierce tendon
In m+
earnest frost
if you dont use unstoppable do you not run anger management?
fierce tendon
depends but usually bolster
earnest frost
just for the shield block?
fierce tendon
works well with last stand conduit as well
cedar nebula
With protection as my off spec and Iβll only be tanking m+, is the wall the go to legendary for my protection setup??
fierce tendon
Thunderlords is better for m+ but not by alot, preference
earnest frost
its weird that thunderlords is better if you wanna run ravager etc, cos wouldnt u wanna line them up anyway
cedar nebula
Ok cool
earnest frost
or do you still just demo shout on cd
strong forum
Always on CD
Lining up stuff doesn't matter
You lose more than you gain
It's about the rage gen mostly
earnest frost
yeah the rage gen is nice
so much shit generates rage now its hard to actually not have ip up
earnest frost
ah k i havent played prot warrior since wod
its actually nice though with devestator
signal plover
Warrior always generates rage because we're always madbois
fierce tendon
I miss gladiator spec 
earnest frost
i dont mind not having it tbh current dmg is pretty good inside dungeons
hopefully devastator stays relevant because i like playing reactively to procs rather than spamming devastate
strong forum
Doubt we'll see any talent tuning in the near future
sweet summit
Itll only get better with time
strong forum
If at all
uneven mason
I miss gladiator spec <:vel:265648244917272576>
I miss a flat 5% damage reduction
jolly thistle
Give me moar DPS 
open monolith
Soooo i was trialing for a guild yesterday. I needed to impress so I.... Neglected Ignore Pain to pump my parses up LOL. My average heroic parse is now 94.9 :D
The healers didn't complain so I kept hitting revenge like it owed me money
sweet summit
uneven mason
spec venthyr and really impress.
fierce tendon
who needs defensive when u have indom
sweet summit
Condemn is my defensive 
fierce tendon
just 'forget' to taunt for ur OT and make him bubble the stacks
jolly spindle
sweet summit
yo is there any weakaura for all reflectable spells in shadowlands?
I dont think so, but there is a sheet in the pins π
open monolith
The OT is a gray-paraing BRM who clearly doesn't understand the class. He did like 1.2k dps
fierce tendon
Lmfao
open monolith
I kept pulling aggro from him without taunt
woven torrent
nvm i found something
open monolith
He's.... Going to be replaced
woven torrent
https://wago.io/Rvk56PHiE (in case anyone needs it)
fierce tendon
brm that can't even do dmg yikey
jolly spindle
spoken like a true warrior
jagged pier
I mean its hc parse time now its AM content
open monolith
:D
deft bridge
are you really tanking if you're not making the lowest dps dpsers get kicked
uneven mason
The OT is a gray-paraing BRM who clearly doesn't understand the class. He did li...
So he's an OG BrM who got used to being able to press 1 button because Legion and BFA was that smoothbrain for the spec.
brisk karma
anyone got a mouseover macro for ravager
open monolith
Nah he's just a new player
jolly thistle
run HR and tell them you were fishing for SS resets 
sweet summit
#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover] Ravager
open monolith
@cursor
jagged pier
@stoic erminesor is better
fierce tendon
this is the revenge spam dream
uneven mason
anyone got a mouseover macro for ravager
add [@stoic erminesor] if you want it to go where you point
jagged pier
not at me
sweet summit
Ye cursor is better
sweet summit
Can i show u my normal nathria π³
jolly thistle
there we go agane Cur getting permapinged
jagged pier
this is the revenge spam dream
this the revenge dream
fierce tendon
Clearing normal still cuz guild doesn't run m+ lulw
open monolith
I'm only 4/10 heroic. Haven't tried pugging and only just now found a group that plays when I'm available
I'm happy to take my time :)
jagged pier
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/tarren-mill/jakeyplops#difficulty=3 looks like i need to run normal again
not all pink
fierce tendon
what them healing parses looking like tho boys
sweet summit
Im crying
open monolith
Shut your mouth himbloid
fierce tendon
lmfao
open monolith
DONT ATTACK ME LIKE THAT
open monolith
rich swallow
have a question, got Bargast leash last night, i thought it was okay up until i got to the point where the damage gets redirected. Anyone found some niche time to use this? seems not so great
midnight oar
Kill your teammates
cinder pasture
It's basically there for you to troll someone in your group π
open monolith
yeah that trinket is hot doodoo. Always change your loot spec on Huntsman
rich swallow
lol
midnight oar
stonks
graceful mason
I put on for trash and try to kill casters
raven salmon
Memory of the Thunder lord best slot to craft it on?
sick sentinel
have a question, got Bargast leash last night, i thought it was okay up until i ...
do a macro that casts that at your focus, and then set someone focus when u join a group. (co-tank if rading, healer if m+ but can be anyone in range)
hexed moth
Hello guys, I played prot warr since drenor and I didn't felt worst than now ( especially mythic +), idk if it's me or it's for everyone
sick sentinel
warriors in general are in a terrible state, we require tons of gear, and most importantly huge weapon/sheild to be effective
sick sentinel
warriors dont do crap for dps and outshined by other tanks :S
open monolith
Wrong again
hexed moth
after thr lost of corrp + essence + azrite , also that we don't have slef healing , I felt so dependent on other ( sorry for my english)
signal plover
You don't need much self healing when you mitigate properly
prisma pendant
Nadjia or Theotar as Venthyr ?
open monolith
Warrior just went from objectively OP to average
signal plover
We have more gaps so effective SB management is more important.
outer solstice
Nadjia for padding @prisma pendant
wild sandal
does the moral strike hand lego works with ravger in prot?
open monolith
warrior is fine. it's just difficult to play well compared to most other tanks
outer solstice
@wild sandal no, only with avatar for prot
open monolith
No it does not Cowcurse
wild sandal
aww
open monolith
he's talking about a different legendary DrOwnz
prisma pendant
@outer solstice for M+ i want more def tbh
wild sandal
well back to boots
scarlet merlin
so anyone know if the adds on the 2nd boss on Necrotic Wake are affected by Fortified? had folks struggling to kill them on time on a 14 last night.
outer solstice
no adds that belong to a bossfight are affected by fortified
they ARE effected by tyrannical though
scarlet merlin
you sure? some encounters in BFA had adds affected by fortified
they seemed extra beefy
open monolith
They are not.
Also, tank him by the stairs, it makes them spawn in a smaller area
also, trap / hard CC the mages and ignore them. They disappear during Final Harvest
sick sentinel
i still remember lots of times pulling a boss with trash on bolster, and then boss giga enrage
scarlet merlin
Ignoring the mages with CC won't make the Final Harvest wipe us?
that makes this quite easier if so
amber herald
Heard blizz buffed that boss but idk how
scarlet merlin
Also tanking by stairs is 100% better for sure, tried that last night and it helped
scarlet merlin
I tanked him against the back wall where the Broken Robot with the spirit bomb thingy is
near the stairs
amber herald
ok
undone jacinth
our healer said yesterday that she couldnβt shackle the mage in combat with the boss so wasnβt sure if they changed the boss somehow
amber herald
I'm gonna try that my group wiped against him yesterady
scarlet merlin
it does keep things a bit more contained, we still wiped a few times due to adds not dying fast enough and 2nd final Harvest wiping us
amber herald
if you shackle the mages they don't blow up but it delays a dot the boss does
muted pendant
When you only need one pug dps but that 206 ilvl fire mage does 2,5k overall dps - whatβs going on with ppl π€·π»ββοΈ
mossy sluice
wat
scarlet merlin
ah interesting
undone jacinth
she literally couldnβt cast shackle on them
amber herald
really?
undone jacinth
it said cannot do in combat
scarlet merlin
Yeah Shackle should be fine
amber herald
was this today? because I did this last night
scarlet merlin
works on the necromancer mages
amber herald
you actually don't want to cc them though if what my healer said is true
scarlet merlin
pretty sure it should work on those too
undone jacinth
it was a day ago but she also isnβt the most experienced m+ player shall we say
mossy sluice
you definitely want to cc them the dot happens no matter what
its just pulsing aoe dam
sick sentinel
plague fall is the new tol dagor in my mind
amber herald
yeah but it delays the dot when he's enraged I think is what was happening to us
tbh my healers a bit suspect
but that's what I was told
scarlet merlin
that should help though I usually run with a hunter so he can just trap one
we can wreck the other
amber herald
If you watch the add when you cc'd it
the boss will kill it and an orb will fly from the mob to the boss
mossy sluice
yeah it flies from the dead dudes as well
the boss frame will have a stacking buff on him
amber herald
Yeah and that's what triggers the dot
but if you leave it alive the dot comes later/stays longer
scarlet merlin
so the Final Harvest, the Warrior and Crossbow adds need to die, CC mages? is that the main thing then
open monolith
@scarlet merlin sorry just saw your question. Correct, hard CC on the mages like Shackle / Trap / Blind will prevent them from blowing up during Final Harvest.
sick sentinel
that's really strange that priest wouldnt be able to cc them, i know that DK and pally have undead/demon tools
amber herald
get threat on warriors, leap to crossbowman
scarlet merlin
Thanks for the confirmation!
amber herald
ranged should get interuppts on mages and bring them to the tank for the aoe nuke
open monolith
taunt warrior, leap to crossbowman, taunt crossbowman (leap resets taunt, remember this!)
sick sentinel
you could pally undead fear the mage and leave it be till last
something like that
open monolith
i don't believe fear works
undone jacinth
donβt think fears should work
open monolith
that isn't "hard cc"
amber herald
you really just want to nuke them because it delays the dot
undone jacinth
that doesnβt make sense though
amber herald
it's what my healer told me
open monolith
0% chance you miss a frostbolt volley interrupt that way
uneven mason
frostbolt volley in NW 2nd boss?
amber herald
because it's a stackign buff on the boss I think (not a dot)
amber herald
so you kill them and it's on 4 stacks for ages
mossy sluice
its maybe 1-2 seconds
amber herald
then when he kills the add himself it refreshes to 5 and stays on for longer
mossy sluice
it definitely doens't delay it as much as your healer thinks it does
amber herald
might've been making excuses for shitty healing
open monolith
the stacking buff is a non-issue on that fight
amber herald
I mean it's only what I was told by my healer so if it's wrong it's wrong
somethings fucky about that fight though
uneven mason
why fear them when you could repentance them
amber herald
and cc;ing them
mossy sluice
paralysis
mossy sluice
cant target undead w/ imprison
open monolith
bah
back to 5
i mean if you have a DK who can just grip all of them in, great
aoe them down
but CCing and completely ignoring is always the best strat for that fight
uneven mason
removes the chance you get a volley that gibs your healer
open monolith
yeeeeep
mossy sluice
yeah adn you can just mongo interrupts on boss and that removes so much healing required
cuz youre not spreading interrupts on 3 targets
uneven mason
yeah adn you can just mongo interrupts on boss and that removes so much healing ...
erm
open monolith
correct.
uneven mason
mossy sluice
necrotic bolt goes on random targets tho
jolly thistle
so anyone know if the adds on the 2nd boss on Necrotic Wake are affected by Fort...
Boss adds are only scaling through key level. Neither tyrannical nor fortified change boss add hp
undone jacinth
the stacks thing might be relevant though it depends how long there is between phases
and if it fully resets
scarlet merlin
ahh that's interesting. Thanks for the info
untold oak
There were certain boss abilities buffed during first weeks in BFA. Harlan's swift wind sabre and Galvazzt pillars. A few others I believe, but adds should be free of this (hopefully)
Fort*
amber herald
here's what I'm talking about
cc'ing the add negates the explosion but not the stacks
and I think what happened to my group was we only just killed the adds in time
which refreshed the stacks
and then we got the enrage on the boss which meant big tank damage and big group damage at the same time which meant wipe for us
mossy sluice
its a 30 second duration on that buff, it shouldn't roll
amber herald
so getting a new stack doesn't increase the duration of the debuff?
buff on the boss rather
mossy sluice
he harvests the souls at the same time though, at the completion of the final harvest cast
cc'd or not cc'd
amber herald
Read the tooltip, it's every time a skeleton is killed
open monolith
I am sure
i have run that dungeon countless times
it doesn't work the way you're thinking
that DoT is a non-issue
if it is an issue, that's a problem specific to your healer
amber herald
This was on a 14 though and I think we had some problems with our mage and quaking
and uhh running onto the healer
undone jacinth
it is an issue and Iβm 90% sure the dot goes on u when the add dies and not when he harvests
so u will have a few extra seconds of the dot
amber herald
Well I'm pugging it either way and I'll come back and say
with our mage we checked the logs and were impressed with her interuppts and then it turned out 2 of them were on the healer with quaking
undone jacinth
the main issue is whether the timing of the next wave overlaps or not
open monolith
i've pugged NW from 10-14 quite a bit. This DoT has never once been mentioned by any member of any group, including the healers
and we always use the trap strat
honsetly, I just today learned that the DOT exists
undone jacinth
I see it all the time
open monolith
I mean, I knew about the buff, I just never looked at what it did
mossy sluice
ive never seen the buff go above 5 stacks since they changed it in late december
open monolith
right, it doesn't go above that
mossy sluice
cc or no cc
open monolith
also, I don't think the 2 adds that are trapped "die"
they just disappear
so I don't even know that they contribute to the stacks
amber herald
Yeah but I've seen something fly from a cc'd mob to the boss when it dies/disappears before
Still not certain what that is
open monolith
well, the point still stands, that DOT isn't an issue
not to any healer that is halfway decent
untold oak
That's correct. They do not die, but just "go away" following final harvest. They just go away. I don't believe this is intended, so maybe a hotfix incoming m
undone jacinth
I think youβre just saying that because they donβt do final harvest dmg
amber herald
this is a healer with all 15's and some 16/17's
but there is a high chance of situational retardation
open monolith
If my pug healers can handle it without even mentioning it, yours should be able to
Especially on Fortified week lol
amber herald
But the dot on it's own isn't the issue
untold oak
The fact that we're discussing this much in here tells me it's not that obvious of a thing, so understandably if someone doesn't understand it.
amber herald
it's the potential issue of prolonging the dot into the next phase
which may or may not be possible yet it depends on how the buff on the boss works
mossy sluice
undone jacinth
exactly
amber herald
And I haven't figured out how that works yet
mossy sluice
look at the boss frames
amber herald
NW has been hotfixed since then though
they changed the cheese with the caster mob
where a nelf could attack it and shadowmeld bugging it out so it wouldn't attack
amber herald
It going above 5 isn't the issue lmao
open monolith
Yeah, wait wtf? You thought the stacks start when the adds die?
It happens when he casts harvest
amber herald
Before we all start arguing over nothing, here's the tooltip