so what do I make my name
#protection
dry spear
My grphealer and former tank told me to pool rage. Have IP up all the time and use shield block an Special abities when needed. Like the last boss of Theater of Pain. Or what is the deal there?
undone jacinth
if ur taking blockable damage, keep block up all the time - if you’re taking damage that’s worrying you, use IP - if you’re fine, spam damage abilities
nimble drift
My grphealer and former tank told me to pool rage. Have IP up all the time and u...
Just test it yourself. An example of this is Lady Inerva Darkvein. I was thinking, the DOT did a lot of damage from her stacks so maybe it does more damage than melees. So one pull I did my usual 100% as much as possible SB uptime, making sure its up for bigger hits, then I tried one where I used all my rage on IP and only SB special hits that came out
In the end, melees from bosses AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLWAYS do more damage than anything else
At least in my Castle Nathria experience so far
and im aotc
So with that test done I told myself, "keep SB up, use IP when I got the rage for it and it won't cause me to not have SB up"
IP is great for abilities that are about to come which don't really do blockable damage. Like for Sludgefist's Roar I will stop using SB and use 2 IP right before it comes out + Shield Wall if I feel I can
But if a boss is hitting you with melees, I almost guarantee that that will be a majority of your damage taken. Tanked Sire Denathrius the other night and I took 800k from melees while the other tank (DK) took 2mil
SB is king bro
chilly brook
I don't I really should though
chilly brook
My grphealer and former tank told me to pool rage. Have IP up all the time and u...
Hes giving you bad advice
You always prioritize shield block over IP if you can block the damage
nimble drift
People think warriors are still going vers and SB is something to use in special situations. Little do they know we stack haste and go for max uptime on it
chilly brook
Even in 8.3 where vers stacking became a neme block was still the go to
Because it wasn't a detriment to cast
And all the damage was blockable anyways
It hasn't been IP and only shield block for special things since Legion
undone jacinth
what magic dmg
chilly brook
Uhhh
dry spear
Hes giving you bad advice
Ok. So i pool my rage and delay SB in order to avoid those special hits like Reaping Scythe from Mordretha? I am very confused sometimes. I come from brewmaster. I didnt need to pay that much attention to active midigation.
chilly brook
Is it?
undone jacinth
I’m pretty sure it’s not
nimble drift
Ok. So i pool my rage and delay SB in order to avoid those special hits like Rea...
Reflect negates the entire Reaping Scythe damage
undone jacinth
And if it is it’s blockable
high folio
wtf why is it hitting so hard
undone jacinth
it doesn’t hit hard
chilly brook
Because it hits hardm
undone jacinth
it doesn’t at all
chilly brook
After 2 stacks
high folio
i guess maybe heals arent saving me then, hmm
undone jacinth
swap stacks...
nimble drift
lol just make sure you have SB up for it and try to double up on IP when it happens
swap at 2 stacks
chilly brook
Because it literally increases exponentially
nimble drift
easy
chilly brook
So you swap
high folio
idk i just feel like i get bopped super fucken hard
nimble drift
Whats your hp
chilly brook
Ok. So i pool my rage and delay SB in order to avoid those special hits like Rea...
Just block things, if you know a really big hit is coming that's blockable and you wont have block or another CD available for it if you use your solitary block charge then you would delay
Otherwise no
high folio
we must be doing something wrong then, idk this is weird
undone jacinth
are you swapping
high folio
yeah at 2 stacks
undone jacinth
Logs
high folio
i dont struggle with lunge but reposte is hitting me really hard
chilly brook
If you're dying on the second hit you are definitely doing something wrong
high folio
hmm
undone jacinth
link logs
chilly brook
I mean
nimble drift
SEE PERSONALLY
chilly brook
He melee hard regularly tbh
nimble drift
lunge is WAY WORSE
chilly brook
But
nimble drift
than riposte
chilly brook
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
high folio
i dont have logs, i havent set them up yet. im a scrub ik
chilly brook
No one in your group logs?
nimble drift
not fast, frequently
undone jacinth
nobody in your raid logged.
chilly brook
Like absolutely no one?
undone jacinth
?
high folio
i think someone is
high folio
Orcsmack-Illidan
chilly brook
You blocked 2 hits
high folio
i seeeee
chilly brook
On the whole of your best pull
undone jacinth
can u link me Matt
high folio
i must be using sb too much and i dont have it up for the hits
chilly brook
Heres your overall damage taken by the ability
Then your with shield block and without
high folio
aight imma try adjusting and making sure i have sb up
chilly brook
See the difference in the damage intake?
undone jacinth
still even in the worst case scenario it’s doing just over 10k
high folio
so is the issue that im not using SB properly?
nimble drift
Listen man its simple
undone jacinth
yes
chilly brook
Just doesnt seem like you have much up for when its going off period
high folio
okay
dry spear
You guys are really nice. Thank you. I try to get better with tank and play with the rage mechanic. I was watching your m+ run @chilly brook helped me alot.
undone jacinth
that is way too much overkill
nimble drift
Listen man hes asking for help to take less damage
thats the maximum damage mit he can have without using big CDs
high folio
we are about to do another pull so watch my logs lmao
i have a feel for what i need to do now
chilly brook
undone jacinth
yeah using 110 rage for 1 spell isn’t really needed or helpful
chilly brook
You haven't used Shield Wall at all
undone jacinth
it won’t even eat through one IP anyway
chilly brook
Not on your best pull
high folio
ah okayu
undone jacinth
it’s not an issue, if ur swapping at 2 u shouldnt be needing to wall thst cast
chilly brook
You guys are really nice. Thank you. I try to get better with tank and play with...
Anytime, it's what we and it is there for
high folio
yeah im gonna adjust and see how this pull goes
undone jacinth
what order are u killing in
chilly brook
it’s not an issue, if ur swapping at 2 u shouldnt be needing to wall thst cast
While I would agree normally, if hes having defensive problems using his defensive spells helps
😋
undone jacinth
the defensive problem is not using block, nothing else
chilly brook
What else are ya gonna use shield wall on after all
undone jacinth
u could tell him to use demo wall block trinket IP and two shields
but there is other things in the fight
ur gonna use it on the add
who melees for 100k
lol
chilly brook
Big facts tho
Its cuz his other mechanic increases his damage too
The add is big dumb
undone jacinth
even if u ignore the dmg it increases itself by
chilly brook
I pucker up a little bit when tanking it and the boss is almost dead and I hear "ignore the add and kill the boss"
undone jacinth
like his first attack on heroic can do 130k or 30k
first melee swing
I saw a log of a DH taking a 70k melee on heroic and living
wild
after mitigation
chilly brook
I'm genuinely surprised the raid hasn't received any real nerfs
I think the highest I've taken is like 51k
From the add
chilly brook
You know what the biggest pucker factor is?
undone jacinth
in the raid?
chilly brook
When your unholy DK pops slappy hands and its constantly pulling in the small guys onto the gargoyle that you intentionally pulled away from low health mobs
undone jacinth
on my main I died to recital and I realised nobody else actually knew you can soothe it
undone jacinth
figured it would be funnier to watch it destroy everyone instead of say anything though
undone jacinth
Ui bug need to reload
undone jacinth
It must be a frames thing, there’s so many like dispels and stuff that I’m sure healers just don’t see
Like when I’ve got 28 stacks of a disease and I’m like surely they must at least be curious what this is
undone jacinth
result
undone jacinth
Idk how to get in to wipes on my iPad
high folio
griff did it
undone jacinth
Probs the only one killing adds lol
high folio
dog i know holy shit
turbo going hard too
that felt smoother, does my logs reflect that?
chilly brook
I think so hard to tell
Definitely more blocked hits but also more hits from it in general
undone jacinth
ur doing half with mit and half without and the difference between the dmg in take is marginal
I imagine what’s happening is ur healers are concentrating more and maybe using externals
the dmg from the spell even unmitigated is not enough to be killing you, you will be dying from other stuff
chilly brook
So
Not sure why
Hard to go into this on the phone
But your mitigated% looks low
The one in the high 70s is from my latest heroic kill
Also just as an aside council is a healing intensive fight so you might be rotting because everyone else is rotting to the environmental damage
high folio
thats also very possible
overall dmg intake might just be fucking me
the last two pulls felt much smoother so the rot may be running away on me
chilly brook
Yea uhhh not to be that guy
Bht uhhh
You might as well not be running that 5th healer
high folio
wym?
chilly brook
I mean hes underperforming hard
And you'd get more benefit from him being a dps and pushing boss phases faster
undone jacinth
he died
high folio
okay
undone jacinth
they actually had 3 healers die at the same time due to basically nothing lol
high folio
yeah from what i can tell rn is its not me, i thought i was struggling but it must be the rot eating away at me
chilly brook
It's like sludgefist
Tons of raid damage
So the healers sometimes forget about you
undone jacinth
Are you lusting after the first boss dies?
undone jacinth
that seems like
The worst possible lust time on the whole fight apart from the dance
high folio
okay that makes more sense. because i went from doing well to getting slapped at this boss
yeah
chilly brook
I dont even remember when we lust
undone jacinth
Usually coming out of 2nd dance or on an add in last phase
chilly brook
I just know we go caster, dashy boi then pokey boi
I do a great job of tuning out the information that's irrelevant to me
Literally anytime theres an explanation in raid I tune out
"Break it down for me barney style where you want the boss"
undone jacinth
tanks do have it good, playing mostly melee this tier it is actually annoying having to do punk mechanics
not ideal if I’m not tanking and I see them dying on prog though
high folio
pretty sure our problem is healing
undone jacinth
I checked your logs
over time in the phase the oppressive atmosphere ramps up and because they are living for so long it’s ramping very high
high folio
yeah
undone jacinth
between 4:30 and 5:30 it’s ramping massively and your healer output doesn’t increase at all
It’s like none of them are using any cds
undone jacinth
well during that time your overall hps literally does not change, it’s a flat line
and none of them are dead
then everyone just starts dying
high folio
yeah its a healing problem
but i am mitigating relatively well? within reason i guess?
undone jacinth
u are fine
high folio
okay cool
undone jacinth
I think it might be damage more than healing
high folio
im thinking the same thing as well
undone jacinth
u have 6 dps doing less damage than ur tanks on the last pull I can see
high folio
this is a healing and dps check
undone jacinth
that is not right
high folio
really?
dps check to phase before stacks get to high and healing to manage the raid damage?
chilly brook
@hallow phoenix You got a good NW route?
undone jacinth
ur frost DK was doing less dps than you with full up time
high folio
oh thats a good point
undone jacinth
so were ur mages
bruh why are ur dks and mages doing less than Prot warrior dmg
what am I looking at
high folio
im just now seeing this
yeah thats pretty rough
i beat an unholy dk what the fuck
unholy is nuts rn
hallow phoenix
<@!297032060277620737> You got a good NW route?
Yeah let me log in so I can get it
Did a 15 today with a pug with 5 mins to spare, skips all the hard shit
undone jacinth
ur DKs pet is doing over twice the damage of any other spell he has
undone jacinth
do they know it’s a single target fight or are they trying to aoe all 3
lunar perch
Hey, just to make sure:
In the reflect guide (https://tinyurl.com/ReflectGuide), blockable refers to shield block right?
hallow phoenix
Yes
undone jacinth
spell reflect
lunar perch
thanks tusks
chilly brook
Pugs will never cease to amaze me
undone jacinth
nvm me misread!
chilly brook
Makes 0 sense too
Most of these people I have a higher ilvl, io and more keys completed
undone jacinth
I got declined on my alt for a +7 top today despite my mains score and the fact I had already 2 chested a 7 top on that alt lol
the guy said he ‘likes to be picky’
hallow phoenix
Try bring a DH next time 💩
undone jacinth
I put him on ignore and moved on
mental
like he’s gonna take some 500 Rio DH and deplete his 7 lmao
also gorechops hp is something else
hallow phoenix
Open you up!
chilly brook
Try bring a DH next time 💩
We both know that'd be an instant invite
hallow phoenix
All of ToP bosses have way too much health
chilly brook
Oh well 13 PF here we go
hallow phoenix
Why
undone jacinth
cos fucking everything slows u and moving the little bomb shits around and stuff with no grip etc is just toxic af
being able to leap and charge on warrior in PF makes such a difference
hallow phoenix
Wild charge :o
undone jacinth
ur not taking wild charge if ur pushing
and u can only wild charge to a mob in bear not to an ally
undone jacinth
yeah that’s the technique
vestal moat
Are there any good prot warrior youtube or twitch streams for high keys? seems rare.
undone jacinth
shuib streams and he’s the highest rated warr
but tbh there’s no top players pushing with warr right now
(Shuibtv is his stream on twitch)
silk edge
The best slot for the wall is the shoulders right ?
I’ll wait for enough ashes of rank 2 or 3 before crafting it
Cant wait to try it out tho
vestal moat
but tbh there’s no top players pushing with warr right now
ty
smoky wave
Cant wait to try it out tho
Just crafted it, feels loads better than tgv, dunno why
silk edge
Because it brings something somewhat knew i think idk
But yea too bad i have 235 tgv haha
smoky wave
I think it's reducing a longer, more noticeable cool down, rather than reducing a shorter cool down with a less noticeable effect 🤷♀️
chilly brook
cos fucking everything slows u and moving the little bomb shits around and stuff...
just shapehift 4head
chilly brook
Are there any good prot warrior youtube or twitch streams for high keys? seems r...
What key level you talkin
smoky wave
Has anyone run the numbers on gluttonous spike? Difficult to ilintuit how useful it is without using it a bit.
lavish oracle
ur not taking wild charge if ur pushing
@undone jacinth wait, why are you not taking wild charge on bear if you're pushing? Looks like plenty of highly rated bears taking it
Genuine question
sick sentinel
I have a good selection of legendaries
fringe marten
Matt..I can tell you why you didn't get invited to that key. No heroic sire denathrius kill. ERRBODY knows you gotta' have aotc to do keys, they are LITRALLY the same content.
iosefward; I have a 213 spike. I used it a few times, it's ok when you aren't tanking. When you are the healing is meh, damage is meh... it's only cool when you're max HP. So the agility version (the chain from sludge) is just better for damage while tanking most of the time.
Oh I forgot we get deepening bond next week too; so we get 2% more hp, and next damage conduit for Pelican
fringe marten
..wha?
lavish oracle
I can swap verdict out
fringe marten
No it's a potency conduit. OH you want to move verdict down
lavish oracle
Ye
fringe marten
BRO you aren't adding show of force?
lavish oracle
Lol
lavish oracle
Gotta get that big .3% damage boost or my overall is gonna be garbage
fringe marten
I do see the value on the shield wall reduction, but I only would want to couple that with AM..to legit have shield wall on a quicklike cooldown~
Tclap was 9.4% of that key for me. You're talking about boosting that what..like 15%?
16.8% of 9.4% of my damage. so like 1.7% damage increase.
lavish oracle
Sims have it at far less than 1%, maybe you could get a little more out of it by playing around it
But it's very bad
Having shield wall up more often is probably like an equivalent damage gain unless you're in a key where your damage intake is trivial already
fringe marten
You could have Disturb the peace; if you're willing to put phial as a strong HoT.
lavish oracle
Yeah, that was another option
fringe marten
I really like disturb the peace honestly; I just can't see where it's 'worth' to use it.
lavish oracle
I'll probably try some different combos see how they feel
fringe marten
yeah...a couple of combos
until your mobile game energy runs out
and you have to wait 12 hours to play again
GIT FUKD NERDS~!
fringe marten
yup..I already always run rumbling earth. I know stormbolt is strong, but being able to hit every single pack with a stun once, sometimes twice...is nice
to be able to take that 25 second cd to 17 sec? ...woo
every pack twice
lavish oracle
On a spiteful or necrotic week? Oh baby
fringe marten
on a...every week? 17 sec means early in the pull to help stabilize like normal and again after you've done your 2 shield blocks ..a couple seconds later
like? that's good~
It's also why, I have the 226 version of Disturb the peace, and it's literally no better than the..200? I think it caps at
lavish oracle
Being able to stun from range is a big get sometimes, tbh
fringe marten
they realized they could not let that thing scale up
you aren't wrong; stormbolt is a big tool in the belt.
but a 17 sec CD aoe stun cone? ...bruh
lavish oracle
Yeah, gonna try it for sure
fringe marten
On comms it'll literally be "ok stunning.." ... "stunning again" " What..?" "stunning again.." "..huh? how?" "stunning again.."
lavish oracle
Haha,that's assuming my teammates haven't DR'd the hell out of everything already
fringe marten
Unless you're running keys easy for your respective groups skill/damage you'll be stunning 2x per pack basically.
they will but it'll cycle back, doesn't the DR kick in to 0, then reset to full on mobs?
lavish oracle
It's on a timer, 15 seconds after the last cc, I wanna say?
fringe marten
Does anyone know EXACTLY how road of trials works? Do you have to strike the killing blow, or be part of the death of the enemy?
lavish oracle
I just have a WA that tracks DR on nameplates
fringe marten
hm..so if you're the only aoe stun (which can be the case a lot) you should be able to land 2 stuns a pack with 8 sec disturb the peace and earthshaker.
lavish oracle
It's pretty sweet
fringe marten
the road of trials (the path you'll take if you want to use stalwart guardian) is a pretty cool buff, as long as we don't have to score the killing blow
more than a 10% run speed buff..from an elite dead in pack in a dungeon? with tank kiting as it is..that ain't shabby
lavish oracle
It's probably just contribution, pretty sure that's how war machine works
fringe marten
honestly; because I raid tank a lot..doing mythic progression atm..
I'll have to set up the third tree with inspiring prescence boost
and actually be able to USE it now
So we can have the pure damage row on the left, the stalwart guardian tree in the mid, and the Inspiring prescence buff, or disturb the peace utility tree on right.
and all of them will terminate with Piercing Verdict.
fringe marten
and who's been buying those things from venari that I'm now addicted to...to boost your conduits?
fringe marten
me too; half my guild is max rep with her, I'm 2 bars into the last rep
But yeah, those things are nice..bought a few and it's how I got my 200 stalwart guardian
lavish oracle
I got mine off of generals
lavish oracle
Nah, off of normal, sadly
muted pendant
30sec CDR is max
fringe marten
I just..don't understand the logic. "let's give them these cool covenant abilities, and make it really time punishing to change them...OH OH and add these skill boost trees, with lots of cool options once they dig into the expansion AND THEN Put a resource cost on it, that has like half a day refresh!!!
"sounds inspired Ion..let's do that"
muted pendant
At least we don’t have to pay anima 
fringe marten
I have a feeling this and the next week are the first times a lot of folks are going to drain that energy bar in their soulbind..coffin?? and be pissed about it
lavish oracle
I Can't imagine why they felt the need to limit how much you could swap conduit paths
At least the limit is pretty generous
fringe marten
I wonder how cool 'bron' will be when we can summon him; wonder if it'll give that third soulbind legit value.
you think it is; but you HAVE to spend 1 energy per every one you want to move. So you can't swap 2 in differen't positions even. You have to spend both energies.
like..why?
lavish oracle
It'd be kinda sick if he worked like an earth ele
fringe marten
Well, 90 globals though.
that's a lot, more than you think too
hm? I wonder if the off GCD stuff would count, would help it a bit.
chilly brook
Had the stormbolt vs rumbling earth convo before but damn does stormbolt just get better the higher the key
lavish oracle
90 globals is like...a little over 2 minutes?
If you're in combat the whole time
So like 3 minutes realistically
In a key
fringe marten
if off gcd abilites count as well, we could maybe summon bron every 90'ish seconds of combat, maybe a touch more.
but in M+ it's basically, first big pull...second pull, third pull..? maybe bron is ready. And if he just DUMPS on the 90th global it's dogshit
chilly brook
Bron?
lavish oracle
Yeah, seems too hard to control to be practical, even if he slaps
3rd soulbind ability
chilly brook
Who is bron
fringe marten
was that soulbind testable in beta?
lavish oracle
Probably near the end of it? I just remember our Lord and savior pelagos
Yeah
Mikanos's major ability
fringe marten
Yeah mikanikos's signature ability
fringe marten
Ok so it says; on next ability after 90th
which means..it really REALLY REALLY reduces the value of it
it needs to store it, and make it a usable ability on demand.
And all of this is only even worth talking about if bron is a monster. if his damage and healing is very good.
lavish oracle
Kinda wish Klein's ability CD was way shorter
fringe marten
It's insanely wishful thinking, but I honestly hope it's amazing. If he is, I'd be willing to work with the WA we'd have to use to make it usable. Because having something like that would just be so cool....versus..ya' know; Mastery buff.
I'm guessing they tested him in beta, and obviously still came to the conclusion that pelagos was better.
Griff what would you have to do, if you decided deeper into the xpac that you wanted to go back kyrian because of mekanikos or whatever?
chilly brook
I'd just do it
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Tbh there are only two ways I swap covenants rn
- something just gets buffed and becomes busted af
- they actually make condemn more useful for prot and let it cleave or something
jagged pier
give us SD talent and fury execute and fury WW i go condemn
ebon hound
Give Prot sweeping strikes, smack 2 people with 1 Shield Slam
jagged pier
but fury WW would lets do it to 5 targets 🤔
latent steppe
Hey fellow warriors, i want to play prot warrior as an alt in m+ but ppl keep telling me stay away from it. Since im going to reroll from Blood DK they say warriors are the same and they lack defence. Like both BDK and Prot Warr shares squishyness. Firsthand i saw how miserable blood dk is atm. In a same situation other tanks are facerolling the keyboard but as a BDK i have to calculate and almost overthink everything. Is it really the same with prot warrior like they said?
amber herald
warriors defence is fine
people haven't been taking warriors because of their utility
sturdy trench
and DH's dmg
latent steppe
Hmm im playing BDK since 5 years and we are nothing but an upside-down healthbars. Im bored and tired with this and i want something who stands his ground against trashpacks (except necrotic situation lol) So i think warrior is the best?
amber herald
No tank can stand their ground all the time this expansion, kiting is something everyone has to do
sturdy trench
but warriors are equal with all other tanks
amber herald
If you want a face tanker then bears a good option, then warrior
sturdy trench
except dh/bear
amber herald
But then again the tank balance is a lot closer than people seem to realise
So just play what you want
Honestly
latent steppe
I was thinking between Fae and Kyrian. Probably im going with Kyrian. For tanking scenarios Tauren is the best right?
stuck oriole
So one of the more fun builds happening right now
The number one prot is running the organ and the drakkar trinket and because he’s running those he can run the legenedary where when you pop avatar it casts rek or bladestorm
And its glorious
I finally got my organ at 203 just now cant wait to get the drakkar trinket and try this build its a fat pumper build that can do 15s
ionic fern
rough egret
adn why is organ that "important" for that "build" ?
jagged pier
The number one prot is running the organ and the drakkar trinket and because he’...
sounds like a dps main tanking high keys to me
hollow ice
Are there any Reossurces where to import Prideful Routes for MDT since i can´t see anything on wago?
sick sentinel
Just a quick question. Is there a soft cap for haste, vers and so on this expansion?
sick sentinel
normal tauren gets a circle aoe stun on a relatively short CD
@jagged pier Thanks ❤️
which is, stupidly handy hits things behind you, and hits everything in a 8 yard radius,worst best case you spend 0.5 seconds taking 2 melee hits without 100% block from SB bolster
BUT, it does add un-nessecary stun DRs on mobs
naive swan
I have a quick question on necrotic affix
jagged pier
lul imagine being a tauren and having to dismount to enter doors
naive swan
If I'm pushing a fairly difficult key for my ilvl, what number of stacks should I be looking to kite/stun/cleanse to let them fall off
I know that will vary
Based on gear and such, but is there an approximate number?
naive swan
So when you notice steady decline in where your healer can keep you?
I usually notice they can only keep me at 75%, then 50 and so on
jagged pier
pretty much
jagged pier
all about your choice it only effects you your decision
woven kiln
For cleansing when you can't kite: 'half way' - let's say you're tanking a group of mobs that over the course of them attacking you you'll get 60 stacks, cleanse at 30.
For kiting, if it's just physical, no bleeds, no casters, I'll kite at 40 or so. If it's heavy sustained magical damage I'll kite around 25.
All of this changes with CD usage ofc
and key level
I've not tanked higher than a 16 so
sick sentinel
in bfa engineer goggles could randomly make you larger or smaller so it was annoying as tauren
naive swan
Yeah but that sounds about right
@woven kiln thanks
I usually notice something up at 30 stacks
woven kiln
the trick is to get DPS who can murder everything before you get 20 stacks 😄
naive swan
Yeah for sure, had that this morning and forgot it was the affix
Literally never came up haha
open monolith
has anyone seen an ilvl 200 "The General's Heart" from Ulduar?
I wonder if it would be any good
- versatility trinket with: chance on being hit to gain a protective barrier that lowers incoming physical damage by X amount for 10 seconds
comet's trail from Algalon is probably better though. + STR with a haste proc
jagged pier
algalon isnt part of the timewalking
opal wren
Sounds a bit unreliable too
open monolith
oh, Algalon was a separate raid?
I quit after the first tier of raids in WOTLK and didn't come back until ice crown
opal wren
Algalon transcends time
open monolith
😐
No
he deals full damage to both tanks.
dodge is probably the one thing that makes a difference
high dodge / parry would be good for MT
idk for sure if MT parries/dodges if that means the OT doesn't get hit
jagged pier
he deals full damage to both tanks.
the off tank takes the mitigated damage
of the first tank
open monolith
nah, that was proven not true a while back
that's how it was originally, but they changed it
there was a big conversation in this channel... a week ago? maybe 2 weeks, on that subject
jagged pier
when was it proven
open monolith
when logs were reviewed in this channel
it showed the damage being identical
compared logs from like... 12/4 and 12/15
it changed somewhere around 12/13 i think?
I wish I could remember who was involved in that conversation other than myself.... hmmm
jolly thistle
yeah it was hotfixed mid december - when they nerfed his melee dmg
open monolith
@jagged pier #protection message
Read from there and down
Logs from the 13th shows that the the off tank took much less damage, logs from the 25th showed the 2 tanks taking the same damage
so it was changed some time mid december
So high dodge and high parry tanks are your ideal sludgefist MT
with a warrior off tank
opaque vault
hey fellas I wanna ask should I try to get as much haste as possible or is there soft cap and put more in other stats?
jolly thistle
last time i looked at logs parry/dodge on MT didn't change anything on giant fists for OT
opaque vault
haste haste haste
Haha alright thanks for the info. 😄
jolly thistle
maybe something got changed again.
jagged pier
hey fellas I wanna ask should I try to get as much haste as possible or is there...
dont forget ilvl is always better than stats though, unless its rings and neck
pale lotus
So on this subject as an Ot on sludge - what do you prioritize in terms of abilities
opaque vault
Alright ill keep it in mind
open monolith
both tanks get slapped, so treat it as though you were MT
pale lotus
So making sure block is up - IPing as you see fit, and spare rage for dmg?
open monolith
yep. exactly the same as if you were MT.
pale lotus
Thanks! Man I really enjoy learning about prot
jolly thistle
random log from wcl
open monolith
okay now there is one more thing to look for to see if this is true:
can you dodge / parry giant fists as OT?
if No, you need to have a dodge/parry tank as MT just so they can benefit
If yes, it literally doesn't matter at all who is MT
pale lotus
Looks like it based off that log
open monolith
ah yeah I see a parry there
do brewmasters gain elusive brawler from giant fists?
that's the final question!
jolly thistle
idk. but you won't get rage from giant fists as warrior if you're OT
leaden forge
hey, can some of you tell me their stat weight %s? I'm still uncertain about soft caps etc. thanks!
open monolith
no, because stat weights aren't a thing
but you want to, in general, stack as much haste as humanly possible
but ilvl is usually most important, as long as it is at least ~7 ilvl upgrade.
(this does not apply to trinkets, necklaces, and rings, because those don't usually have strength / trinkets have more interesting effects)
jolly thistle
do brewmasters gain elusive brawler from giant fists?
just checked. and the answer is no
open monolith
Hmm, alright.
So in terms of damage mitigation / less stress on healers, if you have a brewmaster, they should MT.
open monolith
wait what is he gaining elusive brawler from
oh, right
they stack it from one of their abilities
So the only tanks that are "punished" from being the OT are Brewmaster for elusive brawler, and Warrior for rage?
and I guess Bear for rage assuming their rage works the same way
faint forum
I mean if you're OT and not currently tanking its not really a issue though?
open monolith
we are specifically talking about sludgefist
open monolith
not according to Anexor, who seems well versed in reading logs
faint forum
oh wow fair enough
open monolith
basically what I glean from all this is: Brewmaster should be MT for sludge if you have one in your group, otherwise Warrior or Bear should be MT. None of the others matter at all.
pseudo raptor
For the Wall. How much can we expect Shield Wall’s cooldown to be reduced by? I know there are a lot of variables that play into it. I’m trying to decide if I want to use that or Thunderlord.
open monolith
If you are using Anger Management, The Wall, and Stalwart Guardian conduit, I believe I have heard people say you can get it down to roughly a 60 sec CD
without AM, 120 sec CD
pseudo raptor
Wow. That’s pretty nice.
open monolith
grain of salt, I have no experience using it myself
I am just parroting things I have read here
I have rank 4 TL 😮
smoky wave
Is there any way to track the CD reduction?
open monolith
other than just looking at what time you popped it, and looking at what time it is available again? idk if that's something a weak aura could do
idk. weak auras seem to be able to do everything these days
pseudo raptor
I love my IP/SB tracker. This group is amazing with how helpful it is.
smoky wave
Got a weakaura for that
rough egret
i have wa that tells me the amount but not if its max
i imagine that when maxed, number will turn red or smthing
smoky wave
Mines red text if an ip would cap it and yellow otherwise iirc
rough egret
can you share?
open monolith
I know the Luxthos Weak aura package has a great IP tracker
it has a bar that shows you how full it is
You can always download that pack, steal the IP portion of it, and delete the rest
rough egret
yeah ill research in the evening 🙂 ty
smoky wave
I might nab that instead. I've no idea where mine is from. Will be hours before I'm at my pc too
rough egret
np thx for answer
smoky wave
My whole wa suite needs a refresh. I find myself not looking at it most the time anyway but struggling to break the habit of looking at my bars
timber nest
What weapon enchant is everyone using?
jagged pier
lightforce
open monolith
Lightless / Celestial
muted pendant
Because no one in #ui-addons-manager seems to have an answer for this:
Does anyone know how I can customize my Zen Interrupt tracker to show the spell icon and the targets mark that was kicked? I know Sense from Nurfed is using it as well as Naowh’s group (see screenshot)
woven kiln
Paging @shut summit
shut summit
Is nnoggies WA, not sure if he made them public again or not after all his stuff
chilly brook
Should still be public
steady spruce
Anyone has a route for TOP with a prideful before last boss?
silk edge
Shroud first three, just do the soothe guy
Then go get 3 adds + one big in xav’s wing before going necro Guy wing
Cant share mdt not at home haha
latent steppe
Do we really use Whirlwind during aoe trash tanking?
solar crown
no
sweet summit
take it off your bars and forget about it
open monolith
"Do we really...."
That implies someone told you we did
find that person, tell them they are stupid
latent steppe
Same can be said for execute then guys?
cobalt grove
Execute is: the amount of damage I'm taking is safe enough for me to sacrifice my own defense for a bit more damage
open monolith
Execute is: HOLD ON TO OUR BUTTS HEALER IM PUMPING
cobalt grove
And if you run venthyr, I believe someone mentioned that the shield from condemn was stronger than IP usage in ST
fallow mortar
it is about the same if not lower
but that is only on the person you hit, so if you kill your condemn target, the mitigation is useless
urban stirrup
Hey All, first time posting and long time lurker. Do you feel Night Fae is a better choice for PUGs due to the knockdown on casters?
open monolith
NF is great for low keys when you don't need to move at all, as it is more damage and more rage than spear.
but Spear's ease of use + phial + generally just being really good makes it my (and most's) preferred choice
also becomes significantly better when you factor in kiting / movement / PvP if that's your thing
urban stirrup
That makes sense. Knowing magic damage is our weakness and my distrust of pugs made me wonder.
silver trout
Anyone else had issues finding groups for mid level (4 to 10) keys?
open monolith
if you don't have really high ilvl or good r.io, that will be a problem
because everyone wants to be carried
best to start your own groups, imo
silver trout
gotcha. my io is not great but I have some gear at least (196)
open monolith
yeah you're competing against all the 205+ tanks with 800+ io
better off making your own group for sure.
silver trout
ah k
limpid pawn
in sanguine depths, after third boss
how do you pull only 2 instead of 3 in that hallway
is the gargoyle imprisonable
open monolith
You mean the pull with an overseer, amist dancer, and a gargoyle?
you don't need to
limpid pawn
yes
limpid pawn
the gargoyle stays?
open monolith
yep
limpid pawn
oh ok ty
silver trout
i'll have to try that next time i'm in there
latent steppe
Is it really a must to go kyrian? i mean i wanna play arms in the raid but playing as venthyr prot warr sounds silly i think
placid oar
Hi guys, how can we pump more dps like DH, Monks and Paladin tanks?
open monolith
Press revenge more often.
placid oar
I am trying my best but could only churn out around 2.5k dps overall without taking too much dmg
limpid pawn
it's tough
if you revenge too much, you won't have enough shield block uptime
or ignore pains
open monolith
Well the question was how to pump more, not how to not die 🙂
limpid pawn
which MIGHT lead to you getting clapped if wrongly timed
placid oar
I dunno what I can do to be competitive in dmg like them to help with keys pushing
open monolith
enjoy big deeps
limpid pawn
yeah true, revenge/bolster = big dick
or what about doing keys with the wall and anger management build
is that a thing
placid oar
I do hope our dmg gets buffed a little
fallow mortar
I focus on living instead of trying to pump out damage. Damage is the DPS's job while I just shout "go team go" as I get wailed on by the horrors of the world
silver trout
I've been enjoying the bolster/revenge/conduit-thingy combo a LOT
limpid pawn
you do keys like that?
amber herald
use bolster with the rage increasing conduit and ravager
open monolith
If you're not focusing on damage as well as living, you are doing a disservice to your group.
placid oar
Yea I do focus a lot more on surviving but I just feel sad when I know DH, Paladins and Monks do more dps than us while staying alive normally
limpid pawn
yeah mang, taking huge unmitigated hits = bad
open monolith
Especially in keys. The faster things die, the less long your healer needs to heal, the faster the key is done
fallow mortar
eh, he will be fine
limpid pawn
that's why people prefer those classes atm, b/c they don't need to compromise between survival and dps as much as us
open monolith
Knowing what hits you can take and when is more important than mindlessly spending rage on ignore pain
fallow mortar
Sure he complain alot that I am taking a lot of damage and screaming at me for the 90 necrotic stacks I have, but I think he is just whining
silver trout
😂
limpid pawn
90 necrotic stacks is kind of beginner though, you should be getting at least 100 stacks
fallow mortar
aight, bet
limpid pawn
big kyrian pot value
undone jacinth
people thinking paladins are staying alive xd
silver trout
it feels like some major tank balancing needs to happen
open monolith
class balance in general is hot doodoo
silver trout
the DK tanks in my guild feel SUPER squishy
open monolith
funny, inaccurate, but funny
limpid pawn
we season 4 bfa DK's now
i ask the healer crew in my guild about tanks sometimes
they all unanimously say that they don't like healing dk's lol
open monolith
DKs are poorly designed
"DKs mitigation is in the form of Reactive Healing!"
-Blizzard
"Let's make mobs that deal 80% of a tank's hp"
-Also Blizzard
cloud scarab
Good evening everyone! I've got a question for all of you Prot brothers: I'm having thoughts on what legendary to use, as at the moment I've got Rank 4 Thunderlord on my greaves, and was considering making "The Wall" on shoulders or back, but there's the issue of the Echo of Eonar, which "Ask Mr. Robot" always recommend it to me above those two.
What would you guys suggest, and why?
open monolith
^ these 2 things don't mesh well
The Wall
is definitely the 2nd legendary you get
or first, depending in your focus
cloud scarab
at the moment is M+s with some Raiding on the side, whenever I can
cloud scarab
rank 4 wall ASAP
I should have asked this awesome community before investing my soul ash into Rank 4 Thunderlord
limpid pawn
nooo, you didn't do anything wrong
lavish oracle
Honeslty, you're not missing out on that much, the power of legendaries is incredibly frontloaded, there isn't a huge power gap between a 190 and a 235
open monolith
rank 4 thunderlord is great
what are you on about
if you are primarily doing mythic+, you made no mistakes
limpid pawn
yeah i just meant after rank 4 thunder, go for rank 4 rwall
mellow patio
Also - delete mr robot from your brain
limpid pawn
wars in raids are actually not bad
open monolith
Now make the wall, because it is also very good
cloud scarab
ok good, thanks for easing out my mind
limpid pawn
maybe against denathrius the bleeds can get out of control
lavish oracle
Warriors aren't actually bad in any content
limpid pawn
bleeds are our weakness tho
open monolith
yeah if you are doing primarily m+ and raid on the side, TL was a good choice
COMMUNITY PERCEPTION AND TIER LISTS ARE OUR WEAKNESS
😢
limpid pawn
this man's youtube tier list about to end our class's career
lavish oracle
nope, that just means cool buffs for us when we don't need 'em
cloud scarab
Also - delete mr robot from your brain
will do, I was using it to check on about my stats balance. at the moment I do feel like I'm out of balance (too much crit)
lavish oracle
slight damage buff, probably
cloud scarab
that can be fixed with gear change ofc
limpid pawn
add last stand back into anger management, and build in bolster by default. Replace bolster with unstoppable force
increase t-clap damage by about 300%
and we are good
maybe also add twilight devastation as a talent or legendary
lavish oracle
we would be busted again with bolster and anger management available already
why would you put unstoppable force on last row?
it doesn't fit there at all, doesn't even come close to AM
lavish oracle
Oh, we would be absurd
open monolith
lupone here is all you need to know about stats
stack haste.
but worry about ilvl a bit more than haste
limpid pawn
OR - i'll settle for rank 1 twilight devastation
just let us keep current nerfs and whatnot
lavish oracle
well stack ilvl, and then if you have a choice between to same ilvl pieces, choose haste
limpid pawn
but give that to us lolll
open monolith
a 3 ilvl difference isn't worth losing all the haste on a piece of gear
a 7 ilvl difference probably is
a 10 ilvl difference definitely is
lavish oracle
nah
drop haste for 3 ilvl
on most pieces
save rings and neck
we scale really well with strength
undone jacinth
dps stopping on kintara to flame me by typing that I need to move the frontal away from them
and die to the orbs while typing
#puglife
silver trout
o.O
lavish oracle
does the frontal even hit other targets anymore?
Overhead Slash now only strikes her primary target and its damage has been reduced by 40%. The tooltip will be updated in a future patch.```Per december 18th hotfixes
I think your DPS might just be stupid
undone jacinth
no it doesn't
that's my point
lol
whining about something that doesn't exist in exchange for dying to the giant orbs of death flying at them
undone jacinth
feel like it's probably part of the reason why everyone hates tanking
valid scaffold
what do i prefer as prot warrior? Ventyr or Kyrian?
sweet summit
kyrian 100%
valid scaffold
i see a lot of war taking ventyr, its just for the 2 dungeon buffs?
sweet summit
arms mains most likely
fallow mortar
Kyrian if I cared about succeeding in M+. Venthyr because I do arms as well as raiding
nimble drift
only reason for venthyr
is if you main arms in raid
literally for every other form of content kyrian is better
even in pvp kyrian arms warr is goated
vague jetty
Great is a stretch
fallow mortar
it isn't?
vague jetty
Yesa
nimble drift
I mean what would you pref, arbitrary damage that drains your rage so you can't use IP or SB
or damage that gives you rage
undone jacinth
you use condemn instead of IP
and its not too bad
could be better depending on the fight
you just don't get phial
I think if they gave condemn more actual damage than execute it'd be a cooler option
undone jacinth
don't believe it does unfortunately
it actually does less damage, but it's shadow so it does about the same
muted pendant
TwistingNether is officially on my blacklist now - so far the most toxic group of ppl I've encountered in a +9 HoA
3 man that do not know how to interrupt, a disc priest that flames about too many necrotic stacks (no interrupt of collect sins after my kick)
no focus of inspiring trash - how will we even kite without slow? Which is not really necessary in +9. How can you keep pugging keys especially higher 
undone jacinth
sometimes you just run in to a bad group
thin cape
Hi everyone! I've just started to get in to higher M+ keys (ilvl 192 right now), trying to figure out talents. Is Punish worth it? I'm running Ravager and Bolster and have the Thunderlord legendary
muted pendant
healer let me die at endboss, no pickup, arms warrior flames me like crazy in chat that I would be the worst tank in WoW - I mean come on what happened to those ppl
undone jacinth
Hi everyone! I've just started to get in to higher M+ keys (ilvl 192 right now),...
nah
you can use it on tyrannical weeks if you are very scared though
thin cape
Right on, I figured but wasn't sure
undone jacinth
its not the worst, just devastator has such nice quality of life
thin cape
yeah
unrelated, should I be opening encounters with bolster + ravager on trash pulls?
I've just switched off of anger management and I'm not sure how much this changes what I've been doing (I used to do Avatar + Demo shout + shield block)
undone jacinth
I tend not to open with bolster and use it when I need, but you can and yeah you do open with ravager
you still do the same thing
thin cape
bolster + ravager + spam revenge is just so much damage lol
with the conduit for the extra rage
thin cape
that makes sense
undone jacinth
if you know you're gonna need to last stand the pack in general though there's no issue using it on pull, better to get it on CD
open monolith
does ravager snapshot?
like, do I need to press Avatar before I use it
or does it not matter?
muted pendant
never really paid that much attention cause sometimes ravager is already in the middle of the trash before Im even there and when I would avataor before and charge I most likely overcap on rage pretty fast
royal birch
Guys I'm just getting into prot in shadowlands, played it for some time in BfA... It feels rly weird playing with devastator bcs some times i dont have anything to press
open monolith
That is an accurate observation.
royal birch
So thats not me fcking things up?
open monolith
Sometimes you end up with nothing to press.
undone jacinth
I main feral sadly
undone jacinth
99% ew
sick sentinel
did a +6 halls with guild couple wipes but timed it
undone jacinth
noice
nova vector
What’s the play for the first 2 pulls in DoS? I use CDs on first pull then get trucked on the second pull
This was in an 11
midnight burrow
i usually save cds and kite the first one
then pop em all staggered on the 2nd
while kiting again for deasr life
but the party needs to stun and crap
tanking is a team sport- most m+ players dont realize this
undone jacinth
what I do is do the first pull, use almost everything, then skip the 2nd pull and do the mask guy / skeles instead
then come back for the 2nd caster pull later
after the skeles
it also has the extra benefit of letting u get pride closer to the hakkar room
nova vector
Oh I like the sound of that
undone jacinth
yeah you can then double pull the first packs in hakkar corridor
last mason
undone jacinth
and necrotic wake
open monolith
SD is fucking toxic on necrotic
that gauntlet is already cancer
it's like... super mega cancer with necrotic
royal sorrel
is ravager and bolster so much stronger than anger management and unstoppable force? it feels so damn good combined with thunderlord
open monolith
If you can handle high keys with UF/AM, more power to you.
I'd rather go Ravager / AM any day of the week, even with TL
but Bolster is bae.
for m+ anyway. not so good in raid
eternal glen
Whats your opinion for into the fray for m+
tight aurora
SD is the worst dungeon this expac hands down
royal sorrel
i think the main problem is that it is in the same row as UF and ravager. 😄 Since we dont have that much tempo at this point it feels good to have shield block up more frequently. im not sure myself when to pick which talent :/
eternal glen
What's SD?
tight aurora
Sanguine depths
royal sorrel
Sanguine Depths
eternal glen
Ok
tight aurora
The most toxic cancer dungeon I’ve ever seen I’d run shrine of the storms 1000 times if it meant never getting an sd key again
open monolith
The correct time to choose Ravager is always and the correct time is to choose UF is never 🙂
(jk ITF has its uses for raid)
fuck UF though.
eternal glen
Well it gives more than 10 haste, i go from 17 % to 29% full stacked
undone jacinth
itf can be fine in m+ too
plush relic
Amen brother
royal sorrel
damn you like that talent a lot
open monolith
chad ravager
royal sorrel
its one more annoying button KEKW
eternal glen
I go booming voice, into the fray and am , with sw legendary is a good combo for m+ or should i change something?
open monolith
only need to change something if you are consistently failing what you want to accomplish
tight aurora
Ravager is the Chad choice yes
royal sorrel
if you play like that i would defintly take ravager, minimize your time on sw beeing on cd.
eternal glen
What is chad?
royal sorrel
itf is only there to get shield block more often
open monolith
itf gives haste
haste gives auto attack swings and CDR
auto attack swings give Shield Slam resets (with devastator)
shield slam gives SW cdr with the wall legoo
so... no, ITF does a lot more than that
ITF is a fine choice when using The Wall
royal sorrel
i didnt did the math but im quite sure that ravager and AM togther give more cdr than itf can combined with more shield slams for the wall to work
royal sorrel
if you did so, show me your math senpai
open monolith
I did no math, nor did I ever make a definitive claim one way or the other
royal sorrel
me neither. thats why i said quite
open monolith
I don't think quite means what you think it means.
lime urchin
bois, im about to do my torgast runs for the week. normally go as protection, but it is so long and boring.. is it worth it going as arms / fury, or is that even worse?
open monolith
"I'm quite sure" implies that you are "sure".
royal sorrel
it leaves some space
open monolith
If you had said "I'm not quite sure", that would have been a more true staatement
n...no
no it doesn't
that is not what quite does
Prot flies through torghast
lime urchin
if prot flies I dont dare going as fury or arms.
undone jacinth
ravager gives a maximum of 8 seconds of reduction per minute
eternal glen
How so?
undone jacinth
assuming ur using AM, which u probably arent
because it gives u 80 rage per minute
open monolith
ayyyyy dolphin flying in with the EZ math
eternal glen
It gives 60 rage when you dropping it
eternal glen
Inside 10-12 seconds according to your haste