Boy
#protection
strong forum
ebon hound
How dare you be different
jolly spindle
what did u bind ur torrent to
jolly spindle
not
warm thunder
Torrent is great smh
ebon hound
I knew it, nome is Tauren just like me
strong forum
ah you mean him
jolly spindle
not u(
worn bear
what do you use for the rare nameplate? asking for a friend
warm thunder
Oh
warm thunder
what did u bind ur torrent to
I didn't
jolly spindle
ffs
open monolith
I thought nome was a filthy vulpera
jolly spindle
bind it its really useful
worn bear
h & g are handy af
jolly spindle
i use h for rp walk
ionic fern
worn bear
slow walking
lavish oracle
I have all the RP shit bound to my numberpad
strong forum
o.o
jolly spindle
i might be a savage
lavish oracle
I use that for important shit
jolly spindle
but i can't physically press shift mid rotation
jolly spindle
KICK NOT BOUND
worn bear
unbound pummel
jolly spindle
WHAT
worn bear
i throw that on Y
jolly spindle
on s
strong forum
r
worn bear
leap on R
amber herald
Is best served cold better for m+ with the wall?
worn bear
it's close to my movement stuff lol
strong forum
BSC is bad
jolly spindle
r is for storm bolt
warm thunder
Bind my Hearthstone on S madman @jolly spindle
lavish oracle
I don't even bind my hearth
open monolith
Why the fuck is pummel unbound
strong forum
Is best served cold better for m+ with the wall?
best served cold is a bad talent and has absolutely 0 synergy with the wall
lavish oracle
stays in bags
wheat sleet
r is a great bind wym
jolly spindle
i just unlocked my ninjapull legendary
amber herald
Yeah I thought that'd be the answer
strong forum
Is best served cold better for m+ with the wall?
you play Booming Voice 24/7 all the time 100%
worn bear
bolt on like 9 usually
jolly spindle
spec into fury
worn bear
bc i'm weird
open monolith
WHY THE FUCK IS PUMMEL UNBOUND
amber herald
I'm looking for ways to increase dmg because my groups getting up to 14/15s
jolly spindle
B)
amber herald
But I'm probably already got the best spec for it
warm thunder
I've 6% haste, it's so low lol
How much haste should I aim for?
amber herald
I'll press revenge more
warm thunder
What's the cap?
strong forum
I'm looking for ways to increase dmg because my groups getting up to 14/15s
talents are the wrong place, optimising pulls, cooldown usage and ilvl is the best way
wheat sleet
WHY THE FUCK IS PUMMEL UNBOUND
they said they were fixing their binds jeez
jolly spindle
20 is the softcap
jolly spindle
wtf was it then
warm thunder
Ofmg
worn bear
20 is just a meme for arms bc muh extra CS global
lavish oracle
I should probably start enchanting my shit
warm thunder
@strong forum Do you cap dodge?
warm thunder
In MoP you at least wanted 15% dodge
worn bear
le evasion tank has arrived
warm thunder
ffs
strong forum
no it doesnt kek
wheat sleet
is 20% a meme for arms?
jolly spindle
im enchanting it anyway
strong forum
is 20% a meme for arms?
might wanna ask that in arms
jolly spindle
8/6 enchants
woven kiln
i don't remember a 15% dodge target in mop. maybe you're thinking of hit/exp
strong forum
im enchanting it anyway
it does absolutely nothing, but sure, enchant int on bracers aswell 👍
worn bear
people treat 20% like it's gospel for arms tbh. i successfully got swindled into making crit/haste sig for example
jolly spindle
damn right i am
strong forum
all you look for gear in pve now is "ilvl >> haste >vers/crit>mastery" ( defensively )
offensively you just sim
woven kiln
I never thought about it and let the reforge addon do its thing
lavish oracle
I mean, some classes do have break points, for like number of particular casts in a certain window
lavish oracle
yeah, not prot
wheat sleet
retail has such interesting and engaging itemization 
worn bear
guessing ilvl is prio because of armor value & str for IP right?
warm thunder
jolly spindle
yes retail is so cool
strong forum
ilvl prio because str has 3-4x the value of secondary stats
warm thunder
Where is my parry?
strong forum
and because stamina and armor yes
warm thunder
Where is parry value in SL?
strong forum
down at block?
barren socket
hey guys, what is the optimal way to deal with denathrius tank swaps in p3? i'm literally getting destroyed, do we swap on stack count or on the combo?
lavish oracle
yeah, that's the part of my game that I want to be engaging, the part where I dig around in my backpack for 45 minutes trying to find the optimal set of secondaries
strong forum
hey guys, what is the optimal way to deal with denathrius tank swaps in p3? i'm ...
6ish, when the other tanks debuff is expired
warm thunder
yeah, that's the part of my game that I want to be engaging, the part where I di...
Ikr
And spending insane amount of golds for reforge
amber herald
anyone got me beat on mastery?
amber herald
feels like a silly number
amber herald
low on our prio list
wheat sleet
yeah, that's the part of my game that I want to be engaging, the part where I di...
yes
strong forum
in your character sheet?
lavish oracle
My parry is on my main character sheet
wheat sleet
yes
Well, not secondaries as in retail secondaries. I'm more so referring to how homogenized stats feel in retail, and as someone who likes comparing different gear sets and pieces in classic I do find myself missing that part of the itemization process.
strong forum
better than using 1 dungeon piece with 1% crit and hit for an entire expansion because nothing better comes out
imo
there are definite bis lists in classic that you just go and get, and ultimately, you also just sim it so its kind of irrelevant itemization that gets automated
if you want max performance
its a little simple in retail wow yes
wheat sleet
With that said, it's definitely a somewhat minor nitpick
strong forum
what annoys me with classic gearing is
that often the set pieces are trash and the set bonuses are weird
some are more tank oriented some are more healer oriented, and you have to mix match a shitton
wheat sleet
Yeah, tell me about it; I main a shadowpriest in classic lol
amber herald
anyone have a guide for using SB/IP correctly? Something more indepth than giving the spell description (all I can find)
wheat sleet
the price you pay for salvation
amber herald
I'm not sure
chilly brook
anyone have a guide for using SB/IP correctly? Something more indepth than givin...
It's pretty simple tbh
undone jacinth
nothing if ur fine
strong forum
SB vs blockable damage ( anything that looks like a melee swing or a "shoot" cast from a ranged mob)
undone jacinth
both if ur gonna die
amber herald
Do I want to stack them for any reason? I have been doing but I read something which made me doubt myself
undone jacinth
yeh
strong forum
IP is allrounder you use even with SB up
undone jacinth
if ur dying
chilly brook
No reason not to
amber herald
ok I'm probably doing that right
But I also read in here that I shouldn't be keeping it up sort of passively
I do that a lot just keeping a high IP up
chilly brook
I talk about it a little bit here
undone jacinth
danger = use more
chilly brook
undone jacinth
not = use less
chilly brook
It's not an in depth guide
But it should give you some idea either through what I'm saying or what I'm doing
amber herald
ty
open monolith
Just remember, Bolster is a DPS cooldown.
amber herald
oh yeah
silver trout
i keep seeing that, but how is it a dps cooldown
amber herald
what's this boss ability addon?
open monolith
@silver trout 15 seconds of block
amber herald
i keep seeing that, but *how* is it a dps cooldown
the rage conduit and you stack it with your dps cds
silver trout
the rage conduit and you stack it with your dps cds
Hmmm i'll have to see if i have that conduit
open monolith
All it means is that it frees up your rage to be used on revenge
Unnerving Focus pairs very well with it
amber herald
rage conduit is nice because if you pair it with ravager it'll feed you a bunch of rage
you're safe because SB and you can just revenge all day
That's how I like to use it anyway
next copper
What's the best place to get a shield from? I'm ilvl 191 equipped with a 148 shield, and I won't be getting into Valhalla like this.
amber herald
pvp and M+ with luck on the vault
silver trout
so does wake
open monolith
I think mists has one
silver trout
i'm about to resort to PVP to get a shield upgrade from my 184 😭
open monolith
Pvp is one of the best ways to get gear
Which is fucking gross, by the way
And I refuse
silver trout
i used to do and rather enjoy world pvp on a pvp server
but now i'm on a PVE RP server, and well, yeah
not fond of arenas/ranked bg's
open monolith
Ew
silent torrent
Spam m0 instead of heroic at ilvl191
tardy parcel
Any dungeons this week that particularly benefit from Kleia's 8sec immunity from necrotic (on top of the dropping of the stacks in the first place) when phial is used? Only place I can possibly think of is Gorechop in Theater if your dps is doodoo
nova vector
@next copper Hopefully you’ll get lucky like me and get a 220 shield from your vault
amber herald
Any dungeons this week that particularly benefit from Kleia's 8sec immunity from...
last boss of plaguefall but for infectious rain
also spider boss before that with the stealth adds you have to get out
open monolith
wtf how accurate is wowrealmpopulation? I just looked at it and it said that.. basically everyone left Area 52. less than 9k people
that can't be true
jade tartan
anytrinket in ulduar good?
open monolith
ooooh i hadn't even looked at the Ulduar loot.
woven trellis
hi everyone what trinket should i farm for mythic+ defensive ones i mean
tardy parcel
also spider boss before that with the stealth adds you have to get out
That's a good call, thanks. Just been wondering if it justifies taking a second Endurance conduit over the Potency conduit route for certain dungeons.
woven trellis
Blood Spattered Scale
is stone legion one worth it
open monolith
No idea.
wheat sleet
https://youtu.be/-nPShmyequ4
Just finished watching this, thanks a bunch for taking the time to make it. As someone who's new to the concept of tank kiting it was really helpful to see someone do it and explain their reasoning and such.
Also a great little tip with the throw weapon on that one pack near the end, will for sure try that out
open monolith
I have the Kael'Thas trinket and.. NGL it's been REAL good to me
it has saved me in more situations than I can count in pugs for m+
amber herald
That's a good call, thanks. Just been wondering if it justifies taking a second...
I read in this discord kleia is bis because she gives 3 conduit slots instead of 2 with pelagos as of right now with 18 renown
amber herald
so you want kleia right now anyway
thanks man
that's way easier to read than the timers
chilly brook
👍
chilly brook
Just finished watching this, thanks a bunch for taking the time to make it. As s...
No problem that's the goal, outside of necrotic I don't do it much unless the healer needs me to or I just have nothing left
next copper
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I'm sort of equal balance on DPS and tanking right now, which is why my shield is balls in particular.
chilly brook
It's hard to get a good one
open monolith
Which is going to hurt ya bad too
chilly brook
I'm stuck with a 207
open monolith
we are real reliant on a good shield
I'm stuck with a 200 >:| hush
you know what will be real bad?
open monolith
when the vault offers me a 220 shield and a 220 hakkar trinket
I.... I won't know what to do
hallow phoenix
Shield...
tardy parcel
you will, but you'll feel awful lol
open monolith
yeah but.... my hakkar trinket is 171 😦
chilly brook
loll
open monolith
vault has been okay to me
given me gear upgrades that I definitely needed, but nothing exciting
220 belt, 220 pants, 220 chest
amber herald
I got a 223 weapon from the vault 
chilly brook
223 gloves this last week not even haste
open monolith
I'll never get a 223 D:
amber herald
I got it from my do 1 dungeon per week slot
chilly brook
Hopefully tomorrow
amber herald
so you might do man never know
chilly brook
Could probably 2 chest NW with the group I'm bringing tbh
next copper
lol As I posted all this, I got around to doing my WQs and one finally has a 174 shield, at least.
woven kiln
the rng is wonky in the vault. I got a 223 main and a 226 offhand, some guildies are stuck at 207 weps
muted pendant
yeah but.... my hakkar trinket is 171 😦
Second this
hidden kindle
Is The General's Heart from general vezax TW any good?
chilly brook
the rng is wonky in the vault. I got a 223 main and a 226 offhand, some guildie...
If you do all of the M+ objectives it's like a 4% chance to get what you want per week
1% otherwise
According to wowhead maths anyways
wheat sleet
I'm stuck with a 200 >:| hush
just do pvp 4head
open monolith
absolutely fucking not
I may not have many convictions in life, but "WoW PvP is fucking awful and I'd rather ram sharp debris down my pee-hole than partake in it" is one of them
wheat sleet
fair enough
nimble drift
got the trinket off heroic stone legion generals
FeelsGoodMan 220ilvl trinket weeee
wheat sleet
I definitely should have gone for the 210 anima field emitter I got in the vault this week; I had a pepega moment when picking
ah well, you live you learn
dusty bridge
216 quantum cube trinket is booty for prot yea?
tepid barn
I’m getting killed on these damn weapon drops wtf. I’ve ran necrotic wake 20+ times on M+ and I haven’t seen the 1hander yet
So distracting
Frustrating **
undone jacinth
could do 350 arenas in that time and probably get a 233 weap
blizz not being kind to m+ers this expac
open monolith
yeah i don't understand the changes to m+ loot
a +15 is like.. harder than any heroic raid fight
hallow phoenix
I believe that's why they changed it. More people can do heroic raid than +15s
And they wanted people to be able to get nice gear.
... So then they butchered the drop rate of gear
open monolith
Yeah but... You get like.. ONE piece of gear from an entire raid clear if you're lucky
Idk, loot doesn't feel good this expansion for folks with less time to no-life it.
I pretty much get 1 upgrade per week, and it's from the vault
undone jacinth
I don't mind it too much but it's clearly inconsistent because pvp gearing is so much better than anything else
open monolith
Yeah. That's definitely a sore point for me
undone jacinth
mythic raid is probably comparable but it's completely walled off for most people
open monolith
PvP gear going so high in ilvl is honestly a little ridiculous, I think
GW2 does PvP right. The gear is all the same, nothing you equip matters.
oak heart
the inscrutable quantum device, since it's on a 3 min cd, is it worth using on the pull timer and swapping out to another trinket right before the pull? or just keep it for the entire fight?
open monolith
Would you not lose the buff?
undone jacinth
u dont unless they changed it
oak heart
you dont lose the buff
open monolith
Then yeah. Make a gear swap macro for that
oak heart
just tried it 2 minutes ago
open monolith
Solid value
open monolith
Mana will go to healer
oak heart
i have a 210 quantum device, the only other trinket I have is a 184 hakkar trinket
and a 200 skulkers wing
open monolith
Hakkar all day.
I have a 171 and won't take it off for anything other than a higher ilvl hakkar trinket or Denathrius trinket
silver trout
i have a 207 hakkar and its sex
open monolith
:|
oak heart
got the huntsman trinket too
silver trout
i really really hope that it doesn't nerfed
open monolith
Huntsman trinket baaaaaad
split wyvern
Do you guys recommend PvPing for a shield to get a high ilvl shield if I don’t get one from mythics?
open monolith
If you hate yourself and have no integrity as a human, yeah
split wyvern
Lol thanks
silver trout
ngl i kinda wish world pvp in the maw was a thing
pale lotus
in plaguefall, the rigged plagueborers give me a lot of trouble
how do i negate/combat them?
open monolith
Jump away before they blow up
Or use intervene to get to somebody who is farther away from the explosion radius
Or ask the healer to cleanse the poison that slows you
oak heart
night fae soulshape
candid meadow
@silver trout Do you mean like all the time? You can turn Warmode on and fill your boots.
oak heart
if you play horde, turn wm on and alliance are all over the place
jagged granite
Hey fella warriors I have a question regarding legendaries and which to choose for m+ content, I've looked at the leaderboards but would be nice to have a little convo about it
The ring Is the most favoured and I assume its a mix between the use on both avator n ravanger plus the statweight on the rings ect
tall mural
Those are arms warriors who offtank. Best is thunder lord for m+.
tall mural
The wall for raids
jagged granite
So I assume the guys rocking the wall Is raidtanks
aye
And there's now ay of changing stats on your legendaries
so If you fucked up you're cooked right
tall mural
I’m not sure if you can change once you make them. Just look at guides. Should be haste vers, boots because our gloves are better itemized in other content.
For thunderlord
jagged granite
aye
I just made it before I realised how it worked and made crit haste
So yaaay me
😂
tall mural
Ah shit. Not sure what the play is then. I think blizzard will probably add in the ability to buy new missives and swap the secondary stats when you upgrade.
It’s okay man, crit pumps
jagged granite
well where Im at atm Is if Its worth upgrading em
or making a new pair
I mean we do need alittle bit of crit even as prot I guess
I just gotta makesure Its like my only piece xD
jagged granite
Surely they'll give us a way to change it as the expansion grows be so wierd of you were stuck with the statweight of season one kinda thing
wheat sleet
Do you guys recommend PvPing for a shield to get a high ilvl shield if I don’t g...
yeah, but only if you don't absolutely abhor wow pvp like sock. It'll only take you an evening of rated arenas to get enough conquest for a level 200 shield. If you want higher you'll have to rank up tho
strong forum
Surely they'll give us a way to change it as the expansion grows be so wierd of ...
You'll earn 1140 ash per week, surely you'll have enough at some point to just craft however whatever you want ;)
jagged granite
You'll earn 1140 ash per week, surely you'll have enough at some point to just c...
But that means i'll have to do my least fav part of this expac every wekk
week* ;'D
strong forum
Well...
Yeah that's kinda expected
But you're right, I didn't even think about skipping torghast even when having maxed your leggo 🤔
jagged granite
Imagine having do do Visions of Nzoth for a year n a half man
strong forum
Got me there.
sonic crown
Quick questiion, even though none of the bosses spells are blockable in say plageufall, their autos are blockable and thats huge right?
uneven river
So how bad are prots for tanking necrotic right now just wondering I'm main arms pushing 1kio but thinking of swapping prot to make some progress
lavish oracle
Prot is good at necrotic
astral crystal
*if kyrian
strong forum
Prot used to be the best tank for necrotic weeks since we mitigate damage rather than heal it back up
Now it's only the 2nd best tank for necrotic itself
strong forum
Vdh got their stupid uptime on fiery brand
So they are now a mitigation tank and a self healing tank
undone jacinth
think thats overselling it
strong forum
And they also play kyrian so they're still dominant sadly
undone jacinth
well ofc they are dominant they are still a dh
strong forum
What I mean is
Even with necrotic up, they're still tanky without selfhealing because of tattoos and high fiery brand uptime.
Is what I'm trying to get at
Pwar is insanely tanky against necrotic yes
undone jacinth
pretty sure if ur kicking everything there is no equivalent to war
apart from potentially bear because their lego is bugged
strong forum
It's not only kickable stuff that's dangerous.
Pwar is good, but it's not just a matter of CC rotation
strong forum
Obv
undone jacinth
so thats better vs necrotic?
strong forum
But m+ isn't this one sided
undone jacinth
ye we just talking about necro
strong forum
Yes
And you have to take everything into account
Not just attacks that apply necrotic
undone jacinth
not talking about whats applying necro, talking about what dmg ur taking
theres not that many packs that have random unkickable aoe going out
and if there are thats what phial is for
strong forum
Then what about dots and unblockable damage when you don't have phial up
strong forum
Everybody has to kite, so the bonus of being able to facetank longer is a moot point
undone jacinth
being able to facetank longer is always better?
undone jacinth
so why did u say it
strong forum
In bfa you could perma facetank, vdh couldn't
That was the bonus we had going for us
We lost that bonus, that was part of what made us better
undone jacinth
think u over rate dhs tankiness
strong forum
Na I'm just thinking of how much you can mitigate with block whilst having 30+ necrotic stacks up vs vdh with 30+ stacks up, they still have FB which makes them mitigate all damage.
So they're just as, if not more tanky
Whereas SB doesn't help you with stuff that isn't blockable, FB does help them
And SW is too long of a CD to cover that
That's the point I'm trying to make
Pwar is, like Im saying, very good.
But FB vdh is probably still stronger if you look at the big picture.
strong forum
So what are we arguing
undone jacinth
specifically vs necrotic
i dont see how a warr ever has issues
whereas a dh goes up and down more
functionaly they arent as straight up tanky
but they are a better class overall
so u take anyway
obviously ever is an exaggeration, prolonged fights always a problem
for everyone
sick sentinel
everything is just a simulation anyways
oblique marsh
Noob question lol, got a new ring but don't know which of my older ones I should replace on my prot warrior. Any suggestions? I know haste is good but the other one has an extra stat...
steel mauve
replace the crit mastery one
we dont gear for tertiaries
they're nice to have but dont sac haste for them
oblique marsh
Alright good to know! Thanks.
jolly thistle
no one knows
woven kiln
they're just gonna nerf reflection :/
astral crystal
im just surprised there's been no word on PTR
jolly thistle
it’s christmas/new year. Give them some time
astral crystal
i got spoiled by the breakneck updates throughout BFA
kindred warren
There’s prob a skeleton crew to keep servers running during the holidays
woven kiln
yeah it's the team that made bfa
kindred warren
And “over watch” in case anyone finds a game breaking bug to be hot fixed
I wouldn’t expect any grand changes till end of Jan tbh
And no major patch like next raid till March prob
If not April
At the very least
jolly thistle
p warr is fine. A bit more dmg would be nice tho.
kindred warren
LFR doesn’t fully unlock till feb
jolly thistle
and a few nerfs to some dungeon mobs are needed as well
some mobs are unplayable atm. Where you literally spear+ravager and then kite
Whoever thought that magic melee attacks are a good idea is playing a VDH for sure
undone jacinth
what mobs u thinking of
fringe marten
You mean the ? Frenzied Ghouls or Crazed Ghouls? in Sanguine depths?
strong forum
DoS skellies
Sanguine depths shadow claw cunts
There's prolly some more that you can't reliably outplay
Outside of kiting
Obv the gargons and their stupid bleed in hoa
jolly thistle
PF has some as well
fringe marten
Some important stuff on those guys; for Anexor...if there isn't an inspiring mob with them. Same way I deal with that pull in DoS, Jump in clap it get aggro, (in dos interrupt the big shadow caster, or have ranged do it) Shockwave 'em...reflect 'em all in 1 shot, you get attributed the damage/threat...THEN run.
Demon hunter..everyone else has to do the same thing. The overall damage from mobs vs tanks survivability atm is too high, so it's all kiting once the key gets fairly stout..regardless if it's tyran or fort.
jolly thistle
I know. It still sucks to run after 3sec
fringe marten
Oh absolutely, it is not at all why I played a prot warrior it sucks. Viable..? Sure whatever you want is 'viable' in whatever you want to try it in, I wouldn't use it though.
fringe marten
That is now on the row with Indomitable. ATM Indomitable is simply way better than the other options for healing (that whole row is about self healing/maintenance)
fringe marten
uhhh..? I'd have to look at MDT I'm not sure would it matter?
So impending victory is 30% heal, every 30 seconds. That's 1% a second. (I realize that's not how it works, but just look at it that way for arguments sake atm) Indom is +10% HP ..which is huge and means % heals are now stronger. and every 10 rage is 1% healed. Every time you pop Ignore pain it's 4% health, every time you hit revenge (if not free) it's 2% hp, every time you shield block it's 3% hp (that's off GCD) Ignore pain is too.. You see where this is going?
Every time you do a full execute..4% hp
strong forum
IV on paper can prove to be useful in raiding
Since its 100% predictable damage patterns so you can play around the CD of IV
fringe marten
And the conduit that gives you additional healing from the damage Impending victory does is doodoo because the damage IV does is doodoo.
strong forum
But in practice it's hard to get better value out of it
In m+ IV is dead
In raid its only in theory good
If you try really hard and use it on CD in raid with proper play, it can be better
But... Why bother
pale lotus
what about dragon roar / bounding stride in m+?
fringe marten
Right but not only that in a raid you now have 10% more hp, plus just average more consistent self healing which means you're damage intake smooths out, making it easier for healers. Honestly only a couple of the mobs in the heroic raid do meaningful chunk damage from abilities or melee, and I've only gone through a few in mythic..and even hungering destroyer now at 212~ ilevel is..whatever. Only sludge bothers me atm with how stout giant fists hits.
Bounding stride is only really useful for necrotic and only if you have the distance to run or simply want to use leap more often. But the benefit of the Tclap boost is more than you think..and it's not from the 10% added slow.
nova vector
what about dragon roar / bounding stride in m+?
I’ve wondered this as well
I generally play CT but curious if anyone uses Bounding Stride in particular
fringe marten
and YOUR slow isn't that good, and it's not going to be what allows you to easily kite as a warrior. It's going to be intervene/leap/solid slows from other classes or roots/etc.
jolly thistle
I’m running bounding stride always
fringe marten
you can; but you might try crackling thunder..think you might like it. Droar is solid and mathematically supposed to be the same rage gen as booming voice; but booming voice leads to better 'burst' windows (you'd think droar would but doing 20% more damage when you dump your spear/ravager..couple Tclaps, revenges..is strong) plus after that window you have done more damage and can kite and hold threat better while doing so.
and it's the bigger burst of rage in 1 shot, because it's 1 full ignore pain, or 2 revenges..etc. So it provides more fuel for you to use what you want in that first few seconds of the pull.
jolly thistle
tclap range isn’t that useful now that it’s completely worthless for aggro and in a lot of dungeons a shorter CD on leap can help.
fringe marten
roar provides a quicker/better instant burst, but not a better 'window' where you can unload your wad and run.
jolly thistle
Especially this week
fringe marten
Well I have a slight advantage there; both fire dwarf and kyrian. I'm facetanking my way through packs even on 14's. only if the dps is dry on coolies and it lives a while I move away at all.
Every 2 mins I can clear necrotic, and then every phial.
You're right about clap being a ...kinda' wet noodle now. It ain't BFA clap for sure. Because of the synergy with our azerite traits and talents they had to nerf it ..ya' know..80% of the way through BFA~~~ I wonder if they considered that and returned any of that nerfed damage, since they ABSOLUTELY RAPED our talents.
strong forum
you can; but you might try crackling thunder..think you might like it. Droar is...
Dr is less rage than BV.
Like, that's just false information
fringe marten
oh you're right..30 sec for 20 vs 45 for 40. why was I thinking Demo was 1 min?
no you're right; I dunno why but I was thinking Demo was 1 min cd. not 45 sec
strong forum
And Dr is also just terrible damage
fringe marten
yeah so demo is simply more rage as well.
strong forum
Don't use it unless your group is literally 2x uh dk and firemage that blow up packs in 0.3seconds
And you need to hold onto dear life to hold aggro instantly
Outside of that very specific scenario, DR is just bad. Just want people to know again
fringe marten
It's terrible damage over time, but as far as OUR combat arts go atm, it's strong for 1 global. The problem is they removed the auto crit, and gave it a 'stronger' crit multiplier.
pale lotus
im finding for certain packs i have to get in there, get as much aggro as i can, then nope out of there
strong forum
They reduced the dmg on secondary targets of DR alot
fringe marten
Either way; I decided against droar a while ago. Was using it on some raid fights for parses because apparently it does overall more damage over time than booming if you're on 1 target for a while.
jolly thistle
im finding for certain packs i have to get in there, get as much aggro as i can,...
welcome to SL - it only gets worse the higher+ you get 
strong forum
SL tanking is:
Get in, use your CDs and then get the fuck out
For every tank out there
last mason
do you spear on 3rd wake boss this week
jolly thistle
I was more afking on the 15-16 keys than actively playing
strong forum
What
distant socket
Literally cannot get a group outside of guild
strong forum
Lucky you then
Cuz like getting declined from baby keys while outgearing them massively
Is a sign of them being absolutely retarded people
jolly thistle
strong forum
With 210 you're outgearing 15s
undone jacinth
dont think dragon roar damage is that bad
distant socket
Damage is fine, wouldnt take it to raid tho
undone jacinth
how come
distant socket
Because Booming Voice is better in every way @undone jacinth
undone jacinth
I mean on my alt its doing average 10k dmg on 5 targets, that means u would have to be doing sustained 9k dps during demo shout
woven kiln
the one worst thing than failing DoS to hakkar... is failing DoS on the last phase of last boss
rip key
undone jacinth
to get equivalent damage
distant socket
More rage regen = more abilities = better scaling with Anger management / the wall = more mitigation via shield wall
jolly thistle
I loved DR in prepatch... RIP
strong forum
Pre-nerf DR was amazing
undone jacinth
its 1 rage every 5 seconds
strong forum
But now it's laughable
undone jacinth
difference
strong forum
Does only 20% total damage to the 5th target
Already loses 20 or 30% dmg on the 2nd target
Fucking joke
If your gear is crit heavy, maybe then it's better
fringe marten
Aye, you need it to crit for it to be good.
strong forum
But without having alot of crit it's just laughable
undone jacinth
its doing 40% damage
to all secondary targets
dunno where ur numbers are coming from
im using on 5 mobs right now
fringe marten
Yeah, as an example on mythic shriekwing both me and sense used it and he beat me by 40 dps...but the 11? or so guys above us ALL used booming voice, but they also all killed it WAY faster than my guild too.
fringe marten
So on 1 target it's good, if it crits it's very strong.
undone jacinth
its doing 2k on one target and 890 to 5 targets
fringe marten
But BV is nearly as good and provides you with better burst windows...So you can be lazy, stay with BV and still have a great choice.
chilly brook
But in m+ you're inting if you're running DR over BV
distant socket
Dunno what it is about prot warriors who dont use their rage properly. you need to be consistent to reduce the CD of shield wall
chilly brook
I mean
undone jacinth
But BV is nearly as good and provides you with better burst windows...So you can...
if u crit with DR then that does more than any BV 'burst window' is going to do unless ur doing like sustained 8k dps single target
distant socket
I see so many warriors sitting on high rage during tank switch phases
spend the rage, get lower cds, mitigate more damage
chilly brook
AM is best for avatar
distant socket
that simple lol
fringe marten
I have to imagine those guys weren't even trying to 'parse' they were just using everything they could for damage and went with their standard loadout. But Droar would be theoretically the better 'parsing' choice...but you're 100% shooting for crits with it (which is why I tried running with the crystal from DoS)
undone jacinth
even if ur not going for crits
its doing the equivalent of 2k dps during BV single target with 195 ilvl
as in, you would need to be doing 2k dps during BV
to equal it
chilly brook
DR is a significant dps boost in single target
undone jacinth
I know..
fringe marten
?? I never said it was 'less' damage..I said I even ran it to parse on a single target.
However; the top 10 or 12 parses on that same target are running booming voice, is what I'm saying.
fringe marten
Mythic shriek.
distant socket
Booming voice is the way forward, you're a tank not a dps lol
fringe marten
No, for easy mythic fights..you're trying to be a dps
chilly brook
Booming voice is the way forward, you're a tank not a dps lol
If you're not in danger of dying you should be pumping
fringe marten
you can go full dps talents on shriek, go as hard as you want..use only dps trinkets..etc. You're still going to tank him fine.
chilly brook
Theres no reason to not press revenge when you're not tanking
fringe marten
At this point I'm going pure dps talents/loadout in heroic except sludgefist.
chilly brook
Bruh you get on your healers for doing dps when they're not healing?
distant socket
you should be reducing CD for Shield wall at all time
chilly brook
Again
distant socket
you should pump as much dps as poss whilst also being ready to take back aggro
chilly brook
AM is really mostly valuable for Avatar
distant socket
DR is good for a bit of dps sure
woven kiln
At this point I'm going pure dps talents/loadout in heroic except sludgefist.
Lady still require good dr
chilly brook
The Wall is the majority of your CD reduction
undone jacinth
BV is giving u 1.2 seconds of reduction every minute on shield wall and avatar, which is assuming you are running AM when many aren't on all these hard fights you are talking about
fringe marten
We don't even have great healers and she's still not threatening.
distant socket
but BV is great for rage regen aswell as a nice boost to damage on single target bosses
undone jacinth
over the course of a 5 minute fight you are getting 6 seconds of reduction with ur talent
and that's ur argument
chilly brook
BV is giving u 1.2 seconds of reduction every minute on shield wall and avatar, ...
But my feelycraft bro
undone jacinth
bv is great for rage regen?
I just explained to u
how much rage it is
10 rage every 50 seconds
chilly brook
It's a dumb argument
fringe marten
It's all up to you though honestly; If your gear, or your raid is in a situation where you feel you need to play heavy defense that's ok; do it.
chilly brook
BV isn't going to make you more tanky really
undone jacinth
do you have any logs of the top prots in the world
chilly brook
Uhhh
undone jacinth
no u dont
distant socket
Nah, got my logs tho if you want
undone jacinth
ofc i dont
fringe marten
No that whole row are damage selections.
distant socket
Could be
undone jacinth
ok then link
undone jacinth
I'm not gonna be that guy
fringe marten
But even with Droar being the 'better damage talent' as I was saying the top dozen parses on mythic shriek are using booming voice. Why? the speed their group kills it, the timing they get out of BV before he goes to the middle and becomes near immune.
undone jacinth
do u seriously think they are putting that much thought in to it
fringe marten
Damage is also about what you can fit into what windows/ into the fight/etc. So that's why a lot of times the top bunch of parses for tanks aren't all the same.
undone jacinth
instead of just using one less button
fringe marten
No I think they just used a phantom fire pot..and went mong, and used their best dps trinks/etc.
undone jacinth
wdym the top log is using sheet music and the vers trinket from generals
and is using bolster lol
fringe marten
And to even have effective comparative parses we'd have to all tank the same fight, with exactly the same raid, so the fight was the same durations, then do a ton of them and average them. That's never happening.
last mason
jesus dos is just a gauntlet of impossible tyrannical bosses
undone jacinth
thats why maths exist
fringe marten
Yeah I saw...the sheet music isn't awful, it's a great haste trinket. and the generals trink is very strong damage for almost every class.
distant socket
Dunno what else to say to ya really Dolphin
just take BV lol
Can I see your parses? Just generally curious
I want to compare damage between the 2
undone jacinth
I don't share my stuff but thanks for your advice
undone sun
fringe marten
Just go check out warcraft logs, look at a bunch of the top parses and look for consistency per fight. (I did thyme..and it told me to use my 200 shriekwing, and generals trink =\ so I went with it)
distant socket
I was willing to share my experiences and why I believe BV to be the better choice
If you arent then meh.
random niche
Wouldn’t BV during the Execute window more than make up for what you would lose not taking DR?
fringe marten
I was 1 person away from getting the mythic shriekwing trinket...such a huge upgrade from normal
But one last dps needed it, and it got counciled to them.
undone jacinth
I already explained the maths and what you would need
reality is it doesn't make enough of a difference for most people to switch due to the awkwardness of having an extra button
but at the extreme top it's something they do/could do
especially if people go crit/haste instead of vers/haste as they get better gear
fringe marten
I just made the macro for the talent choices; and the same button has the shift mod for Demo shout if I talent roar. So yeah it adds an 'extra button' for fingers to hit, but it doesn't add bloat as far as UI goes.
random niche
At the end of the day, if a prot war’s damage is making or breaking your raid progress, you got bigger problems lol
distant socket
Crit haste is amazing for M+ and I would take DR into M+ All day
Just not for raids and I wouldnt stack crit for raid either. Haste / Vers
Sadly I'm fucked stats wise, got so much mastery it actually makes me feel sick lol
undone jacinth
the use case for DR is in raid mainly
fringe marten
(nice catch carbomb..truth. But we're just talkin' about personal performance here.)
undone jacinth
so :/
undone jacinth
I just made the macro for the talent choices; and the same button has the shift ...
wdym? you don't lose shout if you talent roar
fringe marten
no, but the same 'macro' key ..with no modifier..is either roar, or Demo shout..using the talent modifiers for macros. And if I talent roar the same key becomes a shift macro for shout
undone jacinth
wut
fringe marten
IE so the same 'button push' is either instant droar, or instant Demo shout.
undone jacinth
so if you talent in to it you still have two buttons but ur just obscuring one of the CDs?
fringe marten
But if I need Demo shout for the defense; when roar is talented...it's on the same key with a shift mod.
No, 1 shows both cd's depending on the talent.
fringe marten
and then if roar is spec'd, the same button has a shift modifier to cast demo shout.
undone jacinth
im so confused
fringe marten
depends on what's talented bro.
fringe marten
There's a macro for displaying the ability depending on what's talented.
undone jacinth
if u have roar talented
u have 2 abilities
demo shout
and roar
which cd is it showing
fringe marten
#showtooltip
/cast [mod] Demoralizing Shout
/cast [talent:3/2] Demoralizing Shout
/cast [talent:3/3] Dragon Roar
the exact macro for the button
undone jacinth
answer the question above
fringe marten
oh firstly I have wa's that show me all my cd's..I never 'look' or use my UI, it's just for building macros and assigning hot keys.
fringe marten
But that macro will turn 1 button into either Droar, or Demo shout based on what's talented as the 'instant' key press.
distant socket
I dont understand why you'd have a macro like that
Demo shout shoudlnt be linked to DR in anyway
fringe marten
and if roar is talented, then that same button using either shift OR control mod..casts demo shout as well.
undone jacinth
its not even a macro
distant socket
GCD doesnt allow that
distant socket
Seems so 😛
random niche
Because it works out to be faster than using a different un-modded keystroke
fringe marten
It's not about that..it's about combining/managing buttons/abilities so you have efficiency in what your fingers are doing/what stuff is bound to.
undone jacinth
if u always have shout on 1
distant socket
Yeah I get that 100%
distant socket
But you dont really need it imo
undone jacinth
just with no complication
fringe marten
no it's not, if you have roar talented, it means you aren't using Demo shout as an 'offensive' ability, and it's now reserved exclusively for defense if you need it.
random niche
Maybe he doesn’t want bars all over his screen
random niche
For CDs
fringe marten
the point is to have ONE button that casts the damage ability I have assigned to that physical motion.
distant socket
Demo shout should be used on CD
ornate magnet
for H lady, how many canisters can you empty at the same time? just 1 at a time?
fringe marten
? it is if you're running keys for the most part.
undone jacinth
you know I thought when my friend told me that his mouse 1 button in counterstrike was move forward instead of shoot, that was gonna be the craziest thing I ever heard of when it came to binds
and yet today happened
distant socket
Even if you arent tanking, if you have a long phase of just dealing dps you use it if you run BV for the rage
fringe marten
sure..for the rage. for the damage..exactly. You only hold it defensively if you will need it for such.
distant socket
If you're solely tanking you use it on CD
chilly brook
That's not accurate
chilly brook
That reduction on SW is barely anything in the long run
distant socket
if you know theres big damage incoming outside of the Demo window then you hold
ok... you still realise that Demo reduces damage taken
chilly brook
Yes
distant socket
So, as a tank, you use it
As a prot warr you need to utilise these CDs. We take so much fucking damage and we dont have the liberty of reducing impact after the fact
chilly brook
I figured you were still praising BV>DR in all situations so my bad
distant socket
we need to know whats coming and time our CDs accordingly
Yeah, because if you stack The Wall with AM , SW is massively reduced in CD
distant socket
Tbh, ideally, with a higher haste rating I'd like to go into Bolster and forget AM and just spam SS all day for the reduced SW CD lol
In what sense???
What exactly is it youre looking for when you tank? mitigation or dps
chilly brook
You're gaining maybe and I mean maybe 1-2 seconds per BV cast over DR
Its minimal
It doesnt matter
If I'm not in danger I pump
If I'm in danger I go more defensive and I'm not playing AM anyways
Por que no los dos
undone jacinth
its exactly 1 per BV cast
chilly brook
If the fight is that big of a deal in terms of damage intake Bolster is better than AM
AM is a DPS talent tbh
Like 26%?
With full stacks
Like if you're main tanking Sludge you last stand and cast both shield walls right away to get everything rolling, you're much better off playing bolster on sludge than AM if you care nothing about your own damage output
Denathrius far better off playing bolster as well
Dude hits like a freight train
undone jacinth
dont think the guy has realised its the better defensive talent regardless of wall
chilly brook
It's almost like The Wall is the biggest CD reduction.
distant socket
dont think the guy has realised its the better defensive talent regardless of wa...
Sure
Every fight is different and can require different talents. I love Bolster, and I love AM
undone jacinth
but never roar right
undone jacinth
the logic stops there
distant socket
Let me rephrase the logic then. BV goes extremely well if you're running The Wall and AM. Forgetting the 20% damage, you get the extra rage which goes nicely with both of those abiliteis
I suppose if you go Bolster or dont have the wall then yeah perhaps, but with the way I tank I utilise SW as much as poss
and love it to be off CD asap
undone jacinth
the extra rage that gives u 1 second of reduction on wall per minute
undone jacinth
the first mythic boss is currently dying in 4minutes
so you can have 5 seconds of reduction... resulting in precisely 0 more casts of either spell
I raid and m+
chilly brook
Its literally negligible
undone jacinth
its just literally nothing
chilly brook
The 100 or so dps you gain from DR is more impactful in a fight tbh
undone jacinth
it doesnt actually provide anything until the timers work out for u
chilly brook
Especially on something like sludgefist
Where there are huge burst windows
And your DR can hit for like 32k
chilly brook
On revenge?@distant socket
What else would I hit
If I'm not tanking I'm not touching IP unless my next global would cap me
undone jacinth
well u probably are when uve got bleeds and shit on u
chilly brook
You also know that DR gives you rage right?
chilly brook
well u probably are when uve got bleeds and shit on u
Nah fuck that let the healers parse
Jk
undone jacinth
dont trust my healers
distant socket
You also know that DR gives you rage right?
Are you asking me that?
chilly brook
Obviously it's more nuandee than that
Yes
Because you're so bent on the rage gain
distant socket
Yeah, it does, with BV
undone jacinth
dr = dragon roar
chilly brook
Reread what I said
distant socket
Nah fuck that let the healers parse
Lol yeah, if youre taking Dots you would IP, I dont think you really would let the healers deal with it right? or would you
chilly brook
On innerva hell yes I would
chilly brook
Unless they're actually struggling
Like it's more nuanced than "oh I'm taking damage I need to IP"
distant socket
I suppose
Though generally if I'm taking damage and I'm not tanking I would naturally IP just to reduce strain
chilly brook
Like what good is your IP if everyone is healthy and the trickle heals you're getting offset the damage anyways
undone jacinth
and youve got all that extra rage to IP with!
elfin pebble
What stats should I put on my leggo? I tank M+ more then raid.
elfin pebble
thats what I thought, thanks
undone jacinth
or you could be a real man and do haste mastery
distant socket
Crit is good for M+ if you run a strong regular grp
I wouldnt pug with that hto
tho
chilly brook
Stat priority defensively doesnt really change depending on content
distant socket
Like what good is your IP if everyone is healthy and the trickle heals you're ge...
Well thats an ideal situation sure. If my raid was all healthy I wouldnt IP either, I'd go all out dps
But that isnt the the norm on certain fights
chilly brook
Generally if I'm not actively tanking anything I have the rage to spend on revenge
In all the fights
And not really need IP
It's not like you take any real damage when not tanking Hungering
Or when not tanking Dealer
The only fight where you need to be defensive when things aren't targeting you is Sludge
Otherwise you're always tanking something
Hell even on sun king I don't really IP
Because the adds dont do damage
distant socket
what difficulty do you raid at?
chilly brook
Well I would if people would quit fucking around lmao
undone jacinth
some of our raid caught covid so they've been able to play more xd
undone jacinth
I actually don't know how to get good parses on council on any character
it's the dumbest fight
chilly brook
It's a pad fight
undone jacinth
I only play melee and unless the adds are gripped in
I just don't understand
how do I do damage
distant socket
are those the talents you raid with Griff?
chilly brook
Unless you got a bunch of soothes
distant socket
Or were you running something else 😛
chilly brook
No was doing my
M+
If you go to each kill it will show you what I was running
Like so
Yes
I accidentally had bad talents on the first kill
Somehow they got changed around idk if it was torghast or what
distant socket
I'm more curious about the devastator / ravager combo
what is your base haste ?
I feel totally screwed stats wise, tho my base haste is 15%
and 24% mastery 14% vers makes me feel sad
distant socket
14%.. how is that in M+ with devastor? many procs?
undone jacinth
it wont be ur stats holding u back
chilly brook
It's fine
cinder frigate
Hey all- how helpful is wow analyzer for measuring performance via raid logs?
chilly brook
But I mean when I don't have to deal with people passing up a tank with considerably higher io than them for 14s I've not had an issue
cinder frigate
Seems like there's some value, but it's very 'grain of salt' type value.
undone jacinth
but thanks for the random jab
u said u felt "totally screwed"
chilly brook
Hey all- how helpful is wow analyzer for measuring performance via raid logs?
It's decent enough, take it with a grain of salt on some fights like council because you're never going to get the max amount of casts of shield slam in because the dance phase
So just use your brain
It's good for measuring wasted shield block casts though almost always
undone jacinth
is that the first guy
sick sentinel
first guy
undone jacinth
yeah you just literally kill it
chilly brook
If the adds die and the explosions dont go off you cant fail
sick sentinel
zzz
undone jacinth
dont let the adds melee people
heavy sail
Sup boys
chilly brook
I mean it probably sounds condescending but that's really it
cinder frigate
Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm continuously getting dinged for Tclap not being up enough which stuns me since it's now an area of focus for me. My guess is that's a bit inconsistent and doesn't take things like tank movement mechanics into account very well at all.
chilly brook
Yeah, that's what I thought. I'm continuously getting dinged for Tclap not being...
You're probably naturally going to let clap fall anyways in your priority since shield slam could reset and revenge does more damage anyways
heavy sail
You could tank blightbone in your sleep.
As long as the adds are killed it’s cake
Kyrian’s can also purge necrotic stacks with phial 
patent cairn
Intervene
undone jacinth
just parry
undone jacinth
the night fae urn works on mobs affected by inspiring
was pretty happy about that
chilly brook
the night fae urn works on mobs affected by inspiring
I'd be pissed if it didn't
undone jacinth
well it's a stun, so I figured..
modern brook
lemme know if u need a shitty rogue
modern brook
destroyed
undone jacinth
theartistformerlyknownas
final axle
Griff did you record any m+ logs?