protection

[strong forum]

I pull for my tank if his pulls are inefficient

Like, doing omega baby pulls for no reason

That being said, I'm tank 99.9% of the time

[woven kiln]

that's rude

[strong forum]

🤷

[ionic fern]

I hate when people pull for me. When i pull small it's for a reason.

[cinder nova]

^

I just depleted a +9 MoTS because the DPS couldn't figure out how the first boss worked.

[ionic fern]

First couple of times i let it slip but the 3rd time i watch them die

[cinder nova]

Didn't want to spend 40 minutes watching it deplete.

I can just do that myself in less than 2.

[woven kiln]

you can wipe in MoTS?

how??

did you document?

[cinder nova]

Dogshit DPS standing in stuff.

[woven kiln]

for history

[strong forum]

The difference is I pull what I know is safe to pull

I don't pull random shit

[torn garden]

It’s easy to wipe anywhere with potato dps

[cinder nova]

You shouldn't pull at all.

You don't know what is/isn't safe for an individual player.

[torn garden]

Your tank might not do the same route as you

Kind of arrogant

[strong forum]

Bah

[dense umbra]

Can you look at MDT / similar outside of game to plan routes ?

[cinder nova]

Defend it how you must, you know as well as we do it's a faux pas.

[dense umbra]

Have a NW 14 to plan for now

[torn garden]

I tank and dps. Let tank take the lead is the courtesy I’d like afforded me. I do the same for others within reason

[woven kiln]

https://keystone.guru/

[strong forum]

I like when people pull for me, cuz I only have 25yrd range and they have 40

Hate it when people are infront of me cuz I picked up their slack

And then wait for me to pull

When they're well aware of the pull that's about to be done

[dense umbra]

Awesome thank you

[torn garden]

?

[strong forum]

Still not enough range

When they're infront of me

And I need to catch up

They can just pull for me

Saves a good 5 seconds

Instead I have to run 10 yards ahead of them

[torn garden]

Guess I’m not doing high enough keys that it matters

[strong forum]

It's just efficiency

Like... Why wait for the tank that's 10 yards behind you to do 1 throw

[cinder nova]

Never had that issue tbh

[torn garden]

Same

[cinder nova]

But I also run um...

[strong forum]

When you can comfortably bring the pack in already and he just has slap

[cinder nova]

What is it

[torn garden]

Pull pack with you toward next pack

[cinder nova]

Leap

So I can just doink my way around pull to pull

[strong forum]

I also run that talent

Cuz crackling is useless to me

But I often wish my 40yard Bois would sometimes pull more, than just wait for me to walk 10yards

[cinder nova]

Shouldn't have an issue between kiting to the next mob and maybe a leap when stacks dfall

[strong forum]

You can't always go forward

[woven kiln]

that talent row is so meh

[strong forum]

Bounding 24/7

[woven kiln]

it's like they put all the d tier ideas in one place

[strong forum]

Crackling does fuckall

It was good in bfa with cns

[woven kiln]

bounding is probably best, cracking confuses me, it gives you like a few feet that you're never gonna use

[strong forum]

But now it offers nothing

[cinder nova]

The extra slow might be worthwhile for kiting

But it makes the TC slow only slightly less mediocre

[strong forum]

You have 4 other people in the group

[woven kiln]

I find that I can either kite very easialy with DPS slows, or it's impossible to kite with inspiring, rarely see an inbetween

[cinder nova]

BRO

FUCK

[woven kiln]

on paper, the slow looks good, in practice, nah

[cinder nova]

THE NUMBER OF TIMES I'VE HAD PEOPLE TELL ME TO KITE WITH AND INSPIRE MOB UP

[woven kiln]

lol

[cinder nova]

I fucking LOSE MY SHIT

Oh my god that makes me so fucking mad

[woven kiln]

people have the right to be wrong 🤷‍♂️

if they're raging because they're wrong, does it matter?

[cinder nova]

It's just baffling how blind people are.

That's what gets me furious.

When someone isn't doing something I anticipate them to do, my reaction is to look around and try and figure out why they might not be.

And if that doesn't yield, start asking.

[torn garden]

Zugzug dps

[woven kiln]

something need doing?

[muted pendant]

sometimes I just ask dps to kill whatever is marked with skill. it is very easy to see 😄

skull*

[cinder pasture]

And then skull ends up dying last

[ebon hound]

If you need a target to not die, just put a skull on it

[dry spear]

Lol

[strong forum]

This

Cross always dies first

Skull always last

[dry spear]

What leggo u rocking in m+?

[ebon hound]

I like The Wall because of the song

so I made The Wall

[dry spear]

I dont main prot but i wanna build one leggo for the specc. I got rank4 signet though.

[ebon hound]

Signet is kinda doo for Prot. It's a tossup between The Wall and Thunderlords, pick your poison

[dry spear]

I like the wall. I go with wall then.

Thank you.

[normal lodge]

do you gain a noticeable boost in survivability with shield upgrades?

[nova vector]

I have the Thunderlord rank 2 for M+. Now I’m in a guild where I may start tanking some in the raid. Should I cut my loses and start ranking up The Wall?

[normal lodge]

considering spending some conquest on one to go from 184 to 213

[sweet summit]

yes

shield is very important

block is giga

[normal lodge]

guess I'm buying hte PVP shield them, its only 450conq

thanks

[fiery vector]

any tips for the first boss of theater of pain with necrotic+tyrannical?

[sick sentinel]

drop necrotic when they’re casting

should be fine besides that

[fiery vector]

unless our dps was too slow i couldnt drop with how fast the melee guy runs

[sick sentinel]

shield block every mortal strike or whatever Dessias tank hit is called

charge to a caster boss + intervene + leap should always work but you can do it by just running if you time it right with mechanics. also you can drop with kyrian pot and shouldn’t need a second drop

[autumn narwhal]

Just kill the mele guy first and you will be ok

might get tight at the end of his hp

but after its easy

[sick sentinel]

yeah this week you wanna hit that boss first for sure

[fiery vector]

alright thanks

[autumn narwhal]

just done it on a 13 and it was fairly straight forwards, didnt have to leap away

[brave sapphire]

Anyone knows how Spell reflect and Arcane Lightning in dos interact? Spreadsheet says it's deflecting the arcane vulnerability. So what happens exactly? Is the debuff still on me, but the vulerability is not growing or do i instadeflect it into the face of my teammate?

[woven kiln]

especially when it's a squad leader

[woven kiln]

kill melee one first

[smoky wave]

Lmao, so much this. Why do they always die last!

[tribal edge]

Hi, I am about to craft my first legendary: Thunderlord. Do we have any preference about where to craft it: gloves or boots? What stats should I use on it? Haste-vers? Thanks in advance

[lime urchin]

Boots, haste and vers

[eternal glen]

What are your options about mastery vs critical?

[undone jacinth]

mastery better for dmg, crit a bit better for survive

and can craft TL on either slot with any stat alongside haste really

[eternal glen]

The bonus ap doesn't feel so much , i would say all the way critical but i wouls like to have more opinions on that subject

[dense umbra]

Unsure - You’re better off reflecting the explosion (convergence)

[undone jacinth]

mastery is twice as good as crit for damage but crit gets slightly more defensive value according to main theorycrafter although I’ve not seen numbers

[dense umbra]

Just deflects the debuff but it’s not a concern for tanking really.

[brave sapphire]

So it's worthless.

[dense umbra]

Nah definitely save SR for the bomb, saves you going up and wasting time

[eternal glen]

Isee, and can i have aome comments about into the fray? It feels kinda wired but after i used ot i realized that it gives more than 2% i currently have 17 %haste and full stacked i go to 29 % .... I know the other talents are very strong but still is it worth?

[undone jacinth]

it’s good yes but ravager is very good in dungeons especially

[dense umbra]

It’s good for raiding.

Ravager better in mythic plus.

[eternal glen]

If you are able to keep it close to 4+ stacks isnt competitive with ravager? For m+

[undone jacinth]

if u keep full stacks then it’s competitive yes but you are unlikely to

[eternal glen]

Sorry about the questions i came back after long time

Is there any kinde of cap at any stat?

Or something that loses the value after you hit a specific point?

[undone jacinth]

DR kicks in at 30% and grows but this is not really relevant for the stats we can get right now, apart from potentially mastery

[eternal glen]

Isee ty for your time

[pine kelp]

what should i spending rage on when shield block is on cooldown ?

[undone jacinth]

same as always, IP if ur dying, revenge if ur not

[limpid pawn]

Our damage can use a huge buff

[warm plinth]

Haven’t seen that yomiel guy lately 🤔

[undone jacinth]

a lot of tank damage sucks at the mo, warr can be ok in dungeons

[limpid pawn]

been selling carries on my DH

DH, pally damage is pretty high

even monk

druid/war/dk are bad

[hallow phoenix]

What are they pulling overall

[limpid pawn]

like 3k+ for each of the top 3 is easily done

and TOUGHER but not impossible on the bottom 3

[hallow phoenix]

I pull 3k usually

I've felt fine with prot war damage

[limpid pawn]

seems underwhelming for wars

[undone jacinth]

yeah is not good

[ebon hound]

Even has its own name as an emote

[undone jacinth]

the dmg is better than u would think but it’s just so awkward to get the value out of it

[limpid pawn]

the CD timing is so strange

and also the armor seems like huge DR for us

[grand drum]

Why does royal dagger haft not have its own emote?

[limpid pawn]

i bet the only trinket worse is the stone heart gargoyle one

[hallow phoenix]

What is that

[limpid pawn]

fucking hate that shit lol

[hallow phoenix]

I thought generals trinket was good?

That's a lot of vers

[limpid pawn]

nooo the one that slows you 50%

im not remembering name

[hallow phoenix]

Oh the stone heart or whatever

Yeah that's a dumb trinket

[limpid pawn]

yeah that one is such garbage

[smoky sparrow]

haste after a certain point only provides like an extra .1 sec cd reduction right lol

isnt it better to stack other stats

[limpid pawn]

i was wondering about denathrius trinket vs hakkar trinket though

so the CD is like 2 min vs 1 min

[hallow phoenix]

Both are fine trinkets

[limpid pawn]

previously in BFA, we'd say the nzoth trinket >>>> mummy bandages b/c of cooldown

is the hakkar bonus damage + extra absorb from multi targets that huge?

[hallow phoenix]

I think hakkar is better simply because some pulls are sketchy and I'd rather have a larger shield than a smaller shield more often

See: DoS

It's also fantastic for aoe threat

[limpid pawn]

yeah i mean trinket drop rates suck in general, so im using hakkar on war, and denatrhius on DH

b/c that's all that dropped

[hallow phoenix]

Just take ilvl. If you're stuck choosing equal ilvl (or jewelry/trinkets), then go haste. There isn't an obtainable amount of haste atm where DR is of real concern

[undone jacinth]

yes

it does as much dmg as any dps trinket I have and it’s 200 ilvl when all my others are above 220

[smoky sparrow]

thanks tusks, reason im asking is because i got a 3 ilvl upgrade but it give crit and versa over my current haste mastery lol

[woven kiln]

holy shit, when menace says 'knocks back' it really means it

mobs fly to mars

[hallow phoenix]

If it's an armor piece take the ilvl upgrade

[smoky sparrow]

so its kinda like is an extra 1 str/stam worth the change in secondary

[nimble drift]

Pugged aotc FINALLY last night

So happy

Like 60 pulls

[hallow phoenix]

Tfw my guild still hasn't done aotc

[limpid pawn]

yeah same

we are 2/10 mythic

like 60+ pulls on h denath

[nimble drift]

Get that 3/10 so u can get that vault

[limpid pawn]

but i know it's b/c we are bringing some pepegas

OK BRB GETTING 3/10

[nimble drift]

JUST GET IT

[limpid pawn]

ok got it

[hallow phoenix]

Over half my guild is pepegas

[limpid pawn]

whew

[hallow phoenix]

I raid as fury and I'm usually top 4 dps

It's bad

[limpid pawn]

lol

[nimble drift]

That's why I pug. Kick the pepegas, keep the top tier players

And no one kicks the prot warrior ever

[woven kiln]

just pull the boss

it's eze

[limpid pawn]

we were using some strange lust on phase 2 strat

we are like insta phasing him to phase 3

[nimble drift]

Parse strat for those shades

[limpid pawn]

but phase 3 needs lust tho

[nimble drift]

EZ

So I got 2 guilds that want me. A 10/10H guild and a 6/10 guild, but they are #1 RBG team on their server and they promise me carry to 2100

[undone jacinth]

pvp gearing better than raid tbh

[woven kiln]

go for the one with the more esporty name

[hallow phoenix]

Do the pvp guild

[nimble drift]

That's what I'm thinking

[hallow phoenix]

Free gear

[woven kiln]

like FzT or Xcal

[nimble drift]

I want that elite set and free gear

[hallow phoenix]

Lmao

[nimble drift]

I can pug the last 4 bosses

[undone jacinth]

I’m sure u can put mythic first 1 or 2

pug

[limpid pawn]

i dunno about dat mane

[nimble drift]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KxbGN3HdM2tmAg4X/

Logs from the kill

[woven kiln]

pugs on shriekwing XD

[limpid pawn]

shriekwing pugs.... lantern.... does not compute

even w/ limit's no lantern strat i see some pepega action

[woven kiln]

'I didn't see any circles, should we make a bug report?'

[undone jacinth]

I mean ur assuming guilds handle it properly

[limpid pawn]

who ddropped that on the lantern?

it was you wasn't it badplayer-azralon

actually no cross realm so nvrmind

[undone jacinth]

if ur on a big server I’d expect pugs to be ok

I mean the entire strat is stacking on top of one person

can’t be that hard

[limpid pawn]

if you keep kicking the worst 2 every pull, you will eventually get the most concentrated and refined pug

and eventually shriekwing will die

[undone jacinth]

exactly

[limpid pawn]

keep repeating, and you will attain pug CE

with the most pure and potent form of pug

[undone jacinth]

now you’re talking

[woven kiln]

pug curve group

500 people pass into and out over a night

[limpid pawn]

there must be many sacrifices for this

so many lockouts

[woven kiln]

ye

even on a kill

cull the bottom 20%

fuck em

[limpid pawn]

NO - MATTER - WHAT

[nimble drift]

Eh

No reason to kick good dps and no fuck ups

[limpid pawn]

but pug concentration bro

too dilute

[woven kiln]

I used to work at a company like that. 10% of the company was made redundant every year

come to think of it

a lot of corporations feel like shitty pugs

[limpid pawn]

tfw your job is a pug

[hallow phoenix]

They should just bring back actual 10 man raiding

[woven kiln]

tfw you don't get a dkp raise

[hallow phoenix]

Much easier to find 9 decent players than 19

[woven kiln]

10 man felt lonely tho

[limpid pawn]

depends on fight mechanics though

[woven kiln]

lei shen's platform

with 10 people

[limpid pawn]

b/c remember heroic archimonde?

[woven kiln]

was sad

[hallow phoenix]

I loved 10 man

Way more chill and personal

[limpid pawn]

with enough giga blasters in the group, you could just lust and phase/skip shadowfel burst completely

(and carry 4-6 people and get paid via pug carries like I did)

i think they are straying away from bosses like that though with hard set phases with unskippable mechanics

like nzoth

[sick sentinel]

got that stone thing, not the greatest but is an option i suppose

[undone jacinth]

it’s probably the worst trinket in SL

[sick sentinel]

the rest of those trinkets i have are 184

[undone jacinth]

I’d rather have a world quest blue

[jagged pier]

emiiter and decanter

[sick sentinel]

cept for old

i don't think decanter does any dmg

[undone jacinth]

It’s bad but not worse than stoneheart

[jagged pier]

i dunno it does a lot for me

[hallow phoenix]

Slowing yourself can mean death

[sweet summit]

does avatar just remove the slow and the heal from that trinket? 🤔

[hallow phoenix]

Test pls

[sick sentinel]

what about if there was a thing like sharknado whre u should get out but u can just defensive through it and attack

or a do nothing boss, would be fantastic on those

[hallow phoenix]

But consider other trinkets with better effects that also don't slow you

Or any sanguine or explosives week

[sick sentinel]

so... the heal is 6 x 700 2400 hp over 12 s buff, and how much ever survival 307 armor is

doesn't sound good on paper.

i can test the avatar question about the stone live

[hallow phoenix]

Pls do

[sick sentinel]

nope

[hallow phoenix]

Lmao

[wheat sleet]

it probably reapplies the slow with the heal

[sick sentinel]

it just never clears to begin with

[hallow phoenix]

Or just doesn't dispel buffs

[wheat sleet]

or just undispellable yea

[vocal bison]

It’s the disparity between that stoneheart trinket and blood splattered scale that really make me wonder who comes up with these tank trinkets, like it’s probably just a monkey flinging crap at a keyboard to generate random stats and procs.

so you get two at complete opposite ends of the spectrum

There is no other logical reason

[hallow phoenix]

Tank trinkets have always been pretty meh imo

Like tank only ones

Which is weird cause I recall the armor trinkets being best in wrath for pure tankiness. Just a different game back then I suppose

[finite prairie]

I kinda like the trinket off of council. If you use it correctly you can get another round of SBs in without having to bolster the gap and it makes a big difference with your threat and IP

I like using it just before pulling for the threat

[rough egret]

What trinket should i focus on for m+ ?? I have hakar and the haste dmd

[finite prairie]

Currently at 30+ m+ runs of DOS for hakkar trinket

RIP

[rough egret]

just get one from vault

jk

[finite prairie]

My trinket luck sucks. I'm running council trinket and the strength trinket that saves you from death and explodes on 6 min cooldown. Kinda sucks cuz if thinks aren't just fucked I should never see the proc, but its great in torghast

[warm blaze]

what u guys think of gluttonous spike? im digging it for m+

[finite prairie]

I want glut spike and hakkar

[wise rivet]

what is a good haste % baseline for prot warrior atm?

[undone jacinth]

as much as possible

[wise rivet]

fair

[rough egret]

I would say that being able to cast 3x SB in row is nice to have

that means enough haste to have SB at 12s CD 🙂

[midnight stone]

I believe thats around 24%?

might be 25

[wise rivet]

good point Zet, thanks for answers

[sonic crown]

this pin on whats reflectable / blockable

is HUGE

[undone jacinth]

haste is affected by a lot of variables in combat so u don’t need to be aiming for that kinda baseline

I don’t have anywhere near 25% but I get 3 blocks

[sonic crown]

do you guys use block off cd?

[undone jacinth]

yes

[sonic crown]

block > ignore pain ?

[undone jacinth]

for physical

[sonic crown]

all autos are blockable?

fro mevery mob / boss?

[sweet summit]

vast majority of them are

[undone jacinth]

pretty much

[sonic crown]

so for manastorms

i block the buzz saw?

cuz that thing destroys me

[undone jacinth]

it’s the bleed destroying u

can’t block bleeds

[wise rivet]

yep and thats up to your healer

[sonic crown]

so just a heal mechanic?

kk

[undone jacinth]

and kyrian phial / dwarf

[wise rivet]

you can try to pray too but im not so sure it will work

[undone jacinth]

ignore pain will help

[sonic crown]

yah i usually just try to get 2 ignore pains up

but it truckss

[open monolith]

I think you can block the initial application

Then ignore pain the bleed

[patent cairn]

I believe u still need to SB their saw cast

[sweet summit]

yep

[undone jacinth]

the cast itself doesn’t do much though

[open monolith]

Basically just MAN UP and take it

[hallow phoenix]

Numerically it performs worse than hakkar trinket but it's alright

Overall it's ok

[sweet summit]

its decent tickle healing and alright damage

[hallow phoenix]

I used it recently until I got a 200 anima emitter

[open monolith]

Gluttonous Spike + Hakkar would be cool

[warm blaze]

im using anima emitter and glut spike atm

[sonic crown]

kk and what about second boss in necrotic wake? it kills a lot of groups im in

is it just kick the necrotic?

[sweet summit]

yes

its random target

[open monolith]

Tank 2nd boss near the stairs, it limits how far the adds can spawn

[undone jacinth]

cc the mages and hope they don’t get broken

[open monolith]

They will spawn closer to boss in a tighter pattern, easier to manage

[hallow phoenix]

Isn't there a corner you can tank him in that forces adds to spawn almost stacked up?

Or did they nerf that

[open monolith]

Echo echo echo...

[sweet summit]

fixd it

[open monolith]

Stairs still works. They won't be stacked, but still tighter

[modern brook]

Sont you just die to the nuke If you do this?

[undone jacinth]

nope

[finite prairie]

PSA On second boss in necrotic when you come up the stairs there is a dead golem in the corner ahead of you. Behind it is another orb that silences all mobs around you for a duration. Very useful in gathering adds

[open monolith]

Nuke ignores hard CCd mobs

[finite prairie]

Most people don't see it

[undone jacinth]

ccd mobs don’t do anything they just disappear

[modern brook]

We just use ranges kicks and a grip

[open monolith]

Use that orb on the adds upstairs after that boss imo

[modern brook]

Honestly should be saying that for a mongo pull upstairs

[undone jacinth]

it’s just an emergency for when adds aren’t dying

which is also why cc is better than trying to kill

[finite prairie]

I dont have as much trouble with those upstairs as I do the adds on boss but thats just me

[open monolith]

Less about trouble, more about efficient use of tools to clear the dungeon faster

[patent cairn]

So you need to CC them, when boss casts explode ?

[undone jacinth]

any time before

as soon as they spawn, cc

[open monolith]

If you trap / imprison / paralyze / cyclone the adds, the explosion won't touch them

[hallow phoenix]

Oooh cyclone

That's clever

[open monolith]

Not 100% on cyclone

Actually

[hallow phoenix]

It should work

[open monolith]

Don't take my word for that

Repentance probably works

Sheep

[hallow phoenix]

Shackle

Can you sheep undead?

[patent cairn]

Oh that CC's. I thought stuns works also

[undone jacinth]

can’t sheep

[open monolith]

No sheep

Stuns don't work

[undone jacinth]

can control undead tho

[open monolith]

Hex?

[undone jacinth]

nope

[open monolith]

Can you hex undead

[hallow phoenix]

Can't hex undead

[open monolith]

Dumb. CC should work on everything

Fight me.

[hallow phoenix]

/fite

[undone jacinth]

shackle undead should work on humans I agree

[open monolith]

Totally

Scare beast

Turn undead

[patent cairn]

So after explosion, cced mobs dies ?

[undone jacinth]

it disappears

[patent cairn]

Cool

[open monolith]

Yep. Gone

[hallow phoenix]

You can intim shout some undead which is weird

[patent cairn]

Intim

[open monolith]

Make intimidating shout cower all targets please

Like the old glyph

BRO PLEASE.

[undone jacinth]

give interrupting shout please

if mobs have it we should

[patent cairn]

ToP ?

[undone jacinth]

yea

and a few others

[patent cairn]

Would he cool

[hallow phoenix]

Yeah the woyer minibosses have it so we should too

[open monolith]

I would love to have an interrupt / silence shout

Demon hunters get a horseshit silence sigil

Give us a silence shout

[patent cairn]

That sigil do wonders to group casters with melees

[open monolith]

Make Avatar have some kind of damage reduction

[hallow phoenix]

Just let us talent intimidating shout into interrupting shout

[open monolith]

PLEASE BRO

[hallow phoenix]

Replace menace with it

[open monolith]

Yes.

[hallow phoenix]

Blizzard hire me

[patent cairn]

Yep, avatar needs to be mitigation aswell

[hallow phoenix]

BoM

:(

[open monolith]

What if Avatar.... Like doubled our HP for the duration :D

[hallow phoenix]

And activated if we would die

[patent cairn]

Hp regen ?

Like muradin in hots

Or armor and magic res increase

[undone jacinth]

it should increase magic resistance because u turn in to a big lump of stone

[open monolith]

Yeah.

[hallow phoenix]

[open monolith]

Avatar now gives 40% magic ramage reduction

[undone jacinth]

100%

[open monolith]

Gives 1000% hp regen rate

All attacks interrupt

[undone jacinth]

immune to all damage

[open monolith]

Yeah.

I like that

[patent cairn]

And oneshot all

[open monolith]

Whoa whoa whoa

[patent cairn]

With weapon throw

[open monolith]

That's obviously op Zani

Let's be realistic here

[hallow phoenix]

No it's not

[patent cairn]

Nooo9

[open monolith]

Lol

[hallow phoenix]

Weapon throw has a minimum range

It'd be balanced

[undone jacinth]

we’re just trying to fix Prot wars YouTube mitigation issues

not make it op

[open monolith]

Yo but like.... "Thunderclap now interrupts during Avatar".....

That would make UF viable

And be cool

[sick sentinel]

i did more testing and you can leap and charge while under effects of stone

[hallow phoenix]

Honestly it should have a chance to interrupt

Like thunderstones in tabletop RPGs

Blizzard hire me

[patent cairn]

Or proc of Revenge stuns targets for 2 secs

[open monolith]

Yeah if Tclap could interrupt during Avatar, that alone would be a sick change

[hallow phoenix]

Revenge used to do that

[open monolith]

UF AM would reign supreme in some dungeons

OH YOU WANTED TO CAST?

NO SIR.

[undone jacinth]

I’d like more mechanics that slow casting speed

instead of just interrupt

[hallow phoenix]

THUNDERclap should do that

Quite truly. Fkn rogues can slow cast speed

[patent cairn]

I think just making shield slam being aoe for a avatar duration would be good

[hallow phoenix]

Give prot whirlwind the fury WW cleave

Make the spell useful rage dump

In 2 target scenario

[undone jacinth]

like bears should have something that makes mobs feel bad for hurting animals, slowing their cast and melee speed

[hallow phoenix]

Animal mobs do less damage to bears

[open monolith]

Hell no tusks

[hallow phoenix]

Done

[open monolith]

I don't want another keybind

[wise rivet]

vegan tank?

[open monolith]

I'm at capacity

[hallow phoenix]

I bet you still can use ALT as a modifier

[open monolith]

Alt + number is uncomfortable. I refuse

[hallow phoenix]

Alt + Q

[open monolith]

Also tanks shouldn't be spinning around all nimbly bimbly

Alt q is... Bound to... Something

Wait.. no it isnt

Shift q is..

Wtd is shift q

God dammit.

[undone jacinth]

people using alt as a key bind 😆

[open monolith]

I use alt for a few things

Alt z is mount

[hallow phoenix]

I only use shift

[open monolith]

Alt x is.... Something

[undone jacinth]

ctrl shift and mouse

ez

dont have to bend ur hand in half to press alt

[open monolith]

God dammit

What is shift Q

Q is ignore pain

Shift q is ....

REEEEEEEE WHY DOES THIS BOTHER ME SO MUCH

It's victory rush

Ok

[warm blaze]

yeah ur telling me, i dont even wanna start playing my druid bc of all the keybinds

[open monolith]

Im good

[undone jacinth]

there was a guy telling me how druid only has 3 key binds and how much easier it is than warrior xd

[open monolith]

Does it have as many as warrior?

Because we have... A lot

[undone jacinth]

druid has the most of any class I play

maybe except shaman

[strong forum]

if you never go into different forms, bear has less keybinds

[undone jacinth]

which u do all the time

[strong forum]

but if you wanna actually the correct way

you use multiple forms and thus alot of keybinds

[hallow phoenix]

Druid at full potential is most binds by a lot

[open monolith]

Well, the other forms open up a different bar... So it's like.. the same keys

[wise rivet]

but a lot of setting up nonetheless

[open monolith]

Yeah

I'll never play Bear

The only druid i like is resto and sometimes boomy

WOD BOOMY WAS PEAK BOOMY

I LOVED AUTOMATIC ECLIPSE

[wise rivet]

druid is simple, feral or no balls

[undone jacinth]

I main feral and it is not that enjoyable

[sweet summit]

🔬

[warm blaze]

lmao

[hallow phoenix]

Open file

[open monolith]

John fucking Madden.

Golden age internet meme

Put that shit in a museum

stop standing in voidzones

That shit is from wotlk lol

[hallow phoenix]

Yes

[open monolith]

Bro.

I was doing 10 man no death naxx

We were on KT

Ye had like 2% hp

I was getting hyped

Forgot about voidzones

[hallow phoenix]

Lmao

[open monolith]

But it's k

I was a dk

I pressed AMS last second

Survived

[hallow phoenix]

Wrath DK was peak DK

[open monolith]

Got my Undying title. Got my plagued proto

Was a good day

[hallow phoenix]

Back when blood was dps and frost or unholy was for tank

[open monolith]

They were all tank

And all dps

It was fun

[hallow phoenix]

Blood was the strongest dps I believe

With hysteria heartstrike spam

[open monolith]

For 3 drake 10 man Sartharion i used a fucked up build that put like 19-21 points in all 3 trees to get every possible tank CD and talent

Needed every single one for his breaths + healer CDs on rotation.

Fun times

[hallow phoenix]

I was off tank bitch duty up until ICC

Which was fine cause offtanking was way more fun

Loved picking up spooders on anubarak

[open monolith]

Our offtank threw a hissyfit because I used 0 hit

But still held aggro

He was so mad about it for some reason

[undone jacinth]

4 augment rune missions

you love to see it

[hallow phoenix]

That's a thing? Never seen that

[undone jacinth]

I got 3 of them

[open monolith]

I completed my 2nd soul ash mission today as Kyrian

[undone jacinth]

just made like 11k gold

[open monolith]

Felt nice

[hallow phoenix]

I had a 16% expertise and 8% hit set

For tru dps time

[open monolith]

Plagued Proto is my only flex mount

Wotlk was the last time I truly played wow in a hardcore way

[hallow phoenix]

Everyone and their mother has the ulduar mounts now but I loved showing them off at the time

Never did get the plagued one :(

[undone jacinth]

my mate got the server first ashes of alar and there was just nothing in the game like it at the time

[open monolith]

I still think Ashes looks amazing

[modern brook]

More like asses

[mild quiver]

Hey guys whenever I sim my warrior I come up with mastery >> crit > vers > haste for dps, but whenever I look up logs and what other warriors are doing they are pushing vers and haste more so. Are the sims off, or are they going for a more defensive build? Curious on your thoughts, thanks!

[solar crown]

The sim is about DPS, but you cant really sim a tank as we focus on actually tanking stuff and mitigate incoming damage

haste is simply our best stat, as it lowers the downtime on our mitigation

you also get more rage, since it lowers cd on all our stuff, so its very nice

[hallow phoenix]

yeah mastery is simming really high for dps

but you'll see most tanks gearing for what they need in m+ or quite honestly using whatever gear they can find

[deft vessel]

ooooh, how nice

[mild quiver]

For sure, I understand haste and vers are strong. I was just curious why mastery was simming so high for damage. Usually as a tier progresses I go more offensive build over defensive since tank damage is lower at the end of a tier. Was just curious. Thanks again

[undone jacinth]

because it gives u more damage 😉

[deft vessel]

23.24% haste with haste food

[sweet summit]

🥺

[warm warren]

what are key stats for prot warrior?

[strong forum]

ilvl >> haste

[deft vessel]

speaking of mastery/sims - the above amulet upgrade I got is simming lower than the ilvl 200 one with the boatload of mastery

there's some form of diminishing returns of course because i have...quite a lot of haste

but yeah, the 200 one sims higher than the 203 one

[strong forum]

has nothing to do with diminishing returns

mastery just sims high

nothing more nothing less

defensively you got the only good necklace in the game

as its the only haste focused neck

[deft vessel]

well, don't secondaries have diminishing returns naturally now

[strong forum]

yea... at 30%

[deft vessel]

ah, fair enough

[strong forum]

and the real first breakpoint of that is 40%

cuz thats where the 20% tax sets in

a 10% tax from 30-39% is nothing

[deft vessel]

hm okay, this detail was lost on me, good to know

I'm still gonna gem/enchant haste i guess

[astral orbit]

Yoooo, any Weakaura to tell me when I need to reapply shieldblock instead of looking next to my minimap to see if it has ran out? Like a big shieldblock icon glowing yellow around it in the middle of my screen telling me to click it

[undone jacinth]

https://wago.io/Y1PUe9h95

[fossil vapor]

guys what to use for high plus?

[sweet summit]

is that all you have?

[fossil vapor]

y

dropped the red one now

they are 213 207 213

[sweet summit]

anime and dance dance revolution

[fossil vapor]

ok, this defensive trinket are shit

?

[sweet summit]

[strong forum]

any "tank trinket" besides Hakkar and Denathrius are hot garbage

[lavish oracle]

I've heard varying reports about hungering destroyer trinket

[undone jacinth]

kaelthas trinket

[vernal yoke]

What leggo are yall using form PROT M+?

[sweet summit]

im using the wall atm

finally got a prot one

[chilly brook]

I use The Wall

I'd probably use TL if I had it though

[nova vector]

Question. I mainly tank M+ and dps raids

I have rank 2 TL

[muted pendant]

I feel better with Wall in M+ rn. 5 more rage each SS and the CD of SW is about 1min with the 28s conduit reduction and bolster chosen

[nova vector]

I’m going to be tanking raids more

Should I get Wall to R4? Or get TL to rank 4 for M+?

[torn gulch]

I have Tl at rank 4

i don't really like it

but i don't know why i don't like it

it feels meh to me

[nova vector]

Is it trolling to bring TL to raid?

[torn gulch]

it kinda is

[nova vector]

We are 10/10 normal and like 2/10 heroic FYI

Very casual so prob won’t matter

[muted pendant]

If I were you I would choose wall r4 and upgrade TL later

[nova vector]

👍🏻

That’s what I was leaning

Seems like a Wall is good for both whereas TL is strictly M+

[warm thunder]

I can't choose between Ravager and Unstoppable Force

What would you take?

[sweet summit]

never UF

so ravager

[warm thunder]

Why tho?

Is it bad?

[sweet summit]

yes

[warm thunder]

Oh

[primal saddle]

Probaly asked and answered a million times but you go shoulders for the wall for the higher stats right?

[strong forum]

yes

[sweet summit]

shoulders ye

[primal saddle]

Cool 😘

[warm thunder]

When do you need to swap between Bolster and Anger Management?

[sweet summit]

when you feel like you need the extra sb uptime

[strong forum]

that you gotta decide for yourself

[warm thunder]

I see

[primal saddle]

I honestly can see wanting not to have AM all of the time

Iive not found my self in a position where I thought bolster would help and I can't even think of one?

[stuck oriole]

Ravager is so essential in m+ but into the fray is better for raid

Ravager in revenge spam for big pumper moments

[dense pivot]

I was about to rage, but then I figured it's not #arms 🙂

[strong forum]

as arms you play ravager + dreadnought iirc

[warm thunder]

I'm playing as tank

Here

So

I assume you want to optimize Block time and refresh it whenever you can

[strong forum]

not just "whenever" you can squeeze out a few globals here and there

not use it when its not too crucial to shave a few seconds

not use it when youre not getting melee'd yada yada

[warm thunder]

Right, do you always want to have Ignore pain up?

[dense pivot]

ravager is bad in multitarget for arms

[warm thunder]

Or is it situational?

[strong forum]

IP is defensive ragedump and damage smoother

not a "must have up all the time" thing

[warm thunder]

I see

Noticed you could stack it 2 times?

Right?

[strong forum]

max absorb cap is 2x yes

[warm thunder]

Ignore Pain looks very underwhelming

[mental scarab]

Its a filler

[strong forum]

its our secondary mitigation

ofc its underwhelming

[warm thunder]

Yea

[strong forum]

but also kinda OP

[acoustic stratus]

imo it costs too much rage right now

[warm thunder]

I mean that's kinda our only constant protection against magic dmg too

[strong forum]

the thing that stops IP from being OP is our resource limitation

[acoustic stratus]

that and revenge

[warm thunder]

Yea

[strong forum]

that, Demo and SW

[warm thunder]

You're playing Palegos as covenant, right?

[chilly brook]

This isn't a perfect play but it might help answer some of your questions @warm thunder

https://youtu.be/-nPShmyequ4

[warm thunder]

Thanks

[strong forum]

ye, but defensively Kleia is better rn because shes got access to 3 conduits

[chilly brook]

Yes shameless plug

[warm thunder]

Wait really?

[chilly brook]

But this is also the whole reason why I'm doing this anyways

[strong forum]

yes Kleia has access to 2x E 1x F rn

with renown 18

[warm thunder]

Interesting

[chilly brook]

Also theres a lot of bait for shield block casts both in raid and m+

Cast it get 1 second of actual use and then the boss or add goes casting for another 5

[warm thunder]

Good to know

[chilly brook]

So learning boss patterns and paying attention to the timers can be really important

[warm thunder]

What conduits do you recommend while playing Kleia

[strong forum]

SW + LS + Rally

[chilly brook]

Cant wait to catch up on renown

[warm thunder]

And the full names?

😂

[chilly brook]

So I can have my 1x potency and 2x endurance

[jagged pier]

not on kelia yet

[chilly brook]

Actually jk itd be 1x potency 1x finesse and 1x endurance

[warm thunder]

Idk what SW is

[chilly brook]

Shield Wall

[warm thunder]

Or LS

[strong forum]

stalwart guardian and unnerving focus

[chilly brook]

Last Stand

[warm thunder]

Oh

Alright

[fossil vapor]

guys why u prefer ravager ? for m+ whit TL leggendary the other talent are not better?

[chilly brook]

No

[strong forum]

ravager is just outright better in every way

unstoppable force is terrible

[chilly brook]

Like nom said

Uf is bad

[warm thunder]

@strong forum And Inspiring Presence

[strong forum]

si

[chilly brook]

Wowhead guide lies to you

UF is trash

[warm thunder]

Looks like Wowhead guides isn't reliable

Is icy-veins reliable?

[chilly brook]

Yes

Maintained by mwahi

[strong forum]

both are fine if you actually read

and not just look at the pictures

[warm thunder]

I'm reading thankfully

[chilly brook]

Except for the fact that wowhead by text exclaims that BFA build is the best talent setup

[strong forum]

🤔

mh true, its actually still using dragon roar in defensive build

not up to date anymore

[strong forum]

title is a bit misleading

[chilly brook]

Like I know he says "serious raiding or m+" but what does that even mean

[strong forum]

thats just cheat sheet build for w/e

[chilly brook]

Tbh bolster and ravager are far better even in 5s

[strong forum]

depends on group

[chilly brook]

It really shouldn't be much of a recommendation tbh

[strong forum]

UF is 100% dead

shouldnt be picked ever

yes

[chilly brook]

Like AM I'd take in 5s

[strong forum]

myeah, guide is a bit outdated now that SL actually launched

[chilly brook]

But I'd honestly, if I was maintaining the guide anyways, default to the ravager/bolster build with a caveat for AM

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[warm thunder]

Il playing: Devastator / Double Time / Blooming Voice / Bounding Stride / Indomitable / Ravager / Anger Management

Is that right?

[chilly brook]

That's fine

Swap to Bolster if you need the extra defense

[warm thunder]

Right

[chilly brook]

And I'd go with Stormbolt for m+ over double time

[warm thunder]

Alright, good to know

When do you want Fray

[chilly brook]

Stormbolt is big value in m+

ITF for single target

Or if you just wanna

[warm thunder]

Isn't Fray good for M+ too?

[lavish oracle]

Should be way more than a minute with the conduit

[hallow phoenix]

Ravager is better

[chilly brook]

I like it in m+ but ravager is considered better

[hallow phoenix]

More spin more better

[warm thunder]

And to my Legendary I'm going for The Wall as Shoulder indeed

[lavish oracle]

Oh, wait, 1 minute as the full CD

nevermind, misread

[muted pendant]

Yep

[lavish oracle]

thought you meant a minute of CDR, my b

[chilly brook]

Ravager is definitely better from a damage perspective

For m+

Since so much trash

[sick sentinel]

what do you guys think about the -20% kyrian spear trinket

[hallow phoenix]

Trinket?

[hallow phoenix]

Wut

[lavish oracle]

It's not kyrian spear

It's steward

it's bad

[sick sentinel]

on wtf

[warm thunder]

I went for UF because of this

[chilly brook]

I wouldn't

[warm thunder]

Somewhat the guide is misleading me

[chilly brook]

You'll only see value in low keys

Beyond that it's going to hurt you

[sick sentinel]

how is owls the ability and not spear ugh lol

[lavish oracle]

"Covenant Signature ability" refers to the covenant universal ability

[warm thunder]

@chilly brook The guide is kinda outdated then

[chilly brook]

Not really

The writeup is accurate

[warm thunder]

Ah

[chilly brook]

There is synergy there

[lavish oracle]

if it were Covenant Class ability, it'd probably be pretty good

[chilly brook]

But like it says you're giving up ravager and bolster

Which are basically necessary for higher keys

[warm thunder]

I see

[sick sentinel]

i went to other side, which mobs does the throw you move

[chilly brook]

Well ravager is debatable but bolster is definitely the play

[hallow phoenix]

The skeleton raptors

I believe

[warm thunder]

And I'm gonna ready closely how to use currently Spell reflection

[sick sentinel]

strange okay

[warm thunder]

Bcs atm idk

And doing shit with it

Thanks god there is spell reflection guide

[chilly brook]

Theres a reflectable ability sheet in the pins @warm thunder

Nvm you got it lol

[warm thunder]

Yea

[muted pendant]

It’s a lot of exp of when to use SR - more so on trash since you have DBM/Big/Littlewigs for bosses

[deft vessel]

replace or no replace?

replace right

[warm thunder]

It's like my holy grail

[deft vessel]

tasty tasty haste

[chilly brook]

Reflect on the wind serpents in SoA is a1

[muted pendant]

Replace the 197

[lavish oracle]

how accurate are MDTs inspiring mobs data?

[muted pendant]

After AoE stun yeah

[chilly brook]

Ye huge damage

[lavish oracle]

love that pack

ez top DPS

[sick sentinel]

they have a SR and SB google page here in the pins

[deft vessel]

aye, figured as well, cheers

[sick sentinel]

there was some big fight about MDT and users not paying

[lavish oracle]

Nnoggie reverted the changes, recently

[sick sentinel]

only thing i really know how to do its tank on warrior so im kinda boned now

[muted pendant]

In PF it was accurate today - but somehow I saw too late that there’re two inspired slimes before 1st boss

[sick sentinel]

i still haven't seen weekly updates for route changes on the r.io site

[lavish oracle]

haha

welcome to necrotic city

you mean Dratnos' routes?

[hallow phoenix]

I think MDT was missing an inspired spewer in ToP

[muted pendant]

They’re not doing any this week

[hallow phoenix]

But otherwise it seems pretty accurate

[muted pendant]

They were waiting for a possible revert that happened now

[lavish oracle]

I think there was one this week but he omitted MDT exports because of the Nnoggie stuff

[deft vessel]

[hallow phoenix]

I'm still using (Manbaby) Dungeon Tools

[muted pendant]

He uploaded a video but without routes

[sick sentinel]

it used to be called method dungeon tools then mythic dungeon tools after josh and man baby tools after the pay me thing.

[lavish oracle]

manbaby dungeon tools is a popular fork

not the main addon

[strong forum]

MDT is fine again

[lavish oracle]

ye

[hallow phoenix]

Nothing wrong with Manbaby Dungeon Tools and far less likely to have bullshit involved with it

[sick sentinel]

i need big wigs to finish updating, i can't stand DBM

BEWARE

[hallow phoenix]

I believe you can import from Manbaby to MDT as well

[lavish oracle]

Only problem with Manbaby Dungeon Tools is that I don't think anyone is updating mob data, so you're gonna have to rely on community updates

[muted pendant]

Gz- with food, anima emitter proc and ITF in raid it feels so good. I don’t even know what to press during BL

[lavish oracle]

or I suppose people could just pull mob data from the current build of MDT

but then why not just use MDT?

[hallow phoenix]

Because perhaps nnoggie decides to make it pay-only again

[lavish oracle]

then just don't update it

[hallow phoenix]

Then the mob info wouldn't be updated anyway

[lavish oracle]

I meant once the hypothetical pay-only version goes out

or download another fork of the previous build

[hallow phoenix]

I'm just going to use the fork that doesn't have a history of weird ass decisions and an author that shows disdain for the people that use his addon

[lavish oracle]

I dunno, we have easy work arounds, I'm just gonna use the one that's slightly less work

and cross the weird decisions bridge when I need to

[undone jacinth]

doesnt really work when nobody else is gonna do that

cant share routes

maybe just appreciate that he made it in the first place

[hallow phoenix]

Pretty sure you can share Dungeon Tools routes to people that use MDT

https://github.com/LetsTimeIt/DungeonTools/issues/65

DT will be able to read MDT routes

And I believe the other way already works

[patent cairn]

Undead prot are garbage ?

Is*

[lavish oracle]

Why would that be the case?

[patent cairn]

Racials sometimes are fantastic

[wheat sleet]

you can turn sounds off, but yeah I agree, it's annoying

[patent cairn]

F.e. tauren stun

[wheat sleet]

I more so hate the foghorn though

[lavish oracle]

Racials won't have a huge impact for like 99.9% of the player base, just play whatever you want

if you end up in a guild or group that for some reason really needs a goblin warrior or something, just pay for the race change

[warm thunder]

Anyway guys, thank you a lot for helping me @sick sentinel @chilly brook

Last time I played was on MoP

[chilly brook]

👍

What we're here for 🙂

[warm thunder]

What's really disturb is that I've a way less spells than before

[strong forum]

shouldve played bfa

there were even less

[lavish oracle]

wait, less spells than when? we just got like 5 new spells

[strong forum]

some people say pwar has too many spells currently

[remote tusk]

I wonder how many new player still have Whirlwind on their action bar.

[lavish oracle]

Probably too many, I doubt they ever press it, though

[remote tusk]

Or Slam

[open monolith]

A lot

[lavish oracle]

I hope they never press it

[open monolith]

Tons of destro locks use corruption

[warm thunder]

Lmao seriously?

[open monolith]

I mean, nothing in game tells you that you shouldn't

[warm thunder]

Even have that old screen

[lavish oracle]

I have like 4 full bars of abilities right now

[warm thunder]

And this was too many?

It was just fine

tbh

Miss that absorb

[strong forum]

i use like 35 binds

[warm thunder]

Lol

[strong forum]

if thats not enough for you

try playing resto shaman 👍

they have like 45

[lavish oracle]

haha

resto druid too

[strong forum]

or warlock

they need like 50 binds

10 alone for pets

[warm thunder]

50 binds is a lot

I usually dont go over 25

[strong forum]

a good warlock has 50ish binds

i think

[warm thunder]

I should redo my binds tbh

[strong forum]

back in cata you needed like 60 binds for pvp as warlock

[lavish oracle]

I feel like if I played warlock I'd have to get an MMO mouse

[warm thunder]

Lol do you keybind all your keyboard at that point?

[strong forum]

why does your mop name sound familiar

[lavish oracle]

I have some opie wheels bound to my mouse

[warm thunder]

@strong forum Idk

[strong forum]

oh i know why

[warm thunder]

Why?

[lavish oracle]

you could probably bind pets to an opie wheel too

[strong forum]

na its not important

[warm thunder]

Lol alright

[sweet summit]

hehe

[strong forum]

dont you hehe

[warm thunder]

My current Ui

It's poor

I should redo binds

[ebon hound]

Atleast you're rare

[warm thunder]

Ikr

[jolly spindle]

wait

what the fuck

why is shield slam on A

[warm thunder]

Why not?

[jolly spindle]

how do you mvoe

[amber herald]

devastate is D for me

[ebon hound]

Some use Q,W,E for movement

[strong forum]

some people only move with mouse

[amber herald]

D for devastate

[lavish oracle]

wait, what buttons do you use to move?

[warm thunder]

I'm in Z Q S D

[lavish oracle]

@ebon hound but E is bound

[amber herald]

Used to be S for stormbolt too but I needed to be able to back pedal 🙁

[jolly spindle]

good god

[warm thunder]

My keyboard is AZERTY