protection

[hallow phoenix]

I really, really want prideful for the ZG deathspeaker pack

[chilly brook]

Otherwise Nnoggie will give you the dungeon data if you wanna pay him for it because hes a dick

I have a feeling theres a way to route that without a skip

[wintry jetty]

so many people still failing on tornadoes though 😢 even seemingly good gorups

[hallow phoenix]

There is Griff but it's ugly and i hate it

and way over %

[chilly brook]

Lol

I just dislike that dungeon period

[hallow phoenix]

Currently I'm skipping the Risen Warlord at the very start

I LOVE DoS

I think it's fantastic. Reminds of me Atal Dazar

[chilly brook]

It's the trash

It's nothing to do with the dungeon design

Fuck the trash

[steady fiber]

@chilly brook Ty

[elder sage]

whats wrong with the trash in DOS?

[chilly brook]

Overtuned af

Weird ass packs

[hallow phoenix]

and the most dangerous pack in there doesnt have an urn

[chilly brook]

Basically if you dont have CDs you're not pulling ZG wing trash at the start

Because you're gonna get cucked without them

Lust is the big play there tbh

[hallow phoenix]

i want lust + prideful

[chilly brook]

Other than that it's a cool dungeon

[hallow phoenix]

Get that pack deleted

[chilly brook]

But that's most of my problems with m+ currently

Is a lot of stuff needs tuning still

The dungeons themselves are pretty good

[hallow phoenix]

Question: In DoS when you get ported during last boss, he always puts you on the opposite platform from where you started, right?

[elder sage]

are you letting the sons of hakkar spawn in the ZG wing trash?

[chilly brook]

Should be yes

[hallow phoenix]

he's talking about the deathspeaker pack

[chilly brook]

The pack outside of the wing

[elder sage]

oh

[chilly brook]

Its aids

[wintry jetty]

fuck the trash, or fuck people not realizing you have to kite and have less aggro than usual? :p

[chilly brook]

4 mobs that have to be kicked

[wintry jetty]

I keep bl for ZG pack, you still have it for hakkar

[chilly brook]

Plus melee mobs

And no urn

And people can't help but kick the trap kicks

[elder sage]

thats 3 bonewarriors 1 cultist 2 raptors and 1 deathspeaker -- what do you need 4 kicks for?

[wintry jetty]

2 for dps butts 😛

[stray sierra]

Is the huntsman trinket any good? 🤔

[jagged pier]

nope

imo

[elder sage]

looks okay, doubt its BIS

[stray sierra]

Didnt seem great

Could use it to troll ppl in pugs tho 🤔

[chilly brook]

Idk its 3am gimme a break

But that pack is gross

[wintry jetty]

I think the deeper truth is

you should be necrolord for this pack!

[chilly brook]

With that comment I'm going to sleep

[wintry jetty]

hahaha

think about it, 20% shield + 20% life during shield wall, so much EHP

please nerf necrolord

[solid gulch]

did they stop us being able to spell deflect the tank swap on Lady Inerva Darkvein (Expose Desires/Cognition)? I used to be able to but I don't think i could last night

[elder sage]

yeah they did

[solid gulch]

damn

[dense umbra]

Hi all, what is a better trinket? https://www.wowhead.com/item=180118/anima-field-emitter?bonus=6805:1472 (203) or https://www.wowhead.com/item=184018/splintered-heart-of-alar?bonus=6805 (200)

[strong forum]

both serve 2 differen purposes

one is a cheat death trinket

[solid granite]

splintered heart can literally kill grp members - its shit imho

[strong forum]

the other gives you both defense and offense

[outer solstice]

heya, anyone can help me out a tad, it seems like I'll need to tank in raid on sludgefist tonight xD all my gear/legendaries for tank are set up for M+, so I have the thunderlord boots, is it better to run ravager and signet?

or does ravager not trigger it for prot?

[sweet summit]

prot ravager doesnt work with signet no

[outer solstice]

damn

ty

[sweet summit]

but id still take signet, as its more damage than thunderlord

[outer solstice]

ok, gonna grab the wall next week it seems xD

legendary #4 .... yaaay

dmg is not my issue ^^ I worry more about survival xD

[sick sentinel]

its low, but i got

[outer solstice]

mine is 184 hehe xD

is the darkmoon trinket worth it for raid?

[sweet summit]

the dps one yeh

the tank one no never ever dont use it its bad please dont

[outer solstice]

grabbed it for 3k to get ilvl for random hc early xD was wonderung how bad it is

gonan use viscera + PvP trinket then, seems fine I guess

ty for the help btw @sweet summit

[sweet summit]

[sick sentinel]

it does give haste so i mean

[outer solstice]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/antonidas/Falbi

anything else I'm missing?

if someone would be so kind 😦

[sweet summit]

oh that vicera

its pretty mediocre

[steady spruce]

Psa, this big cat will bring you to SoA if you're a Kyrian lad

[outer solstice]

@sweet summit I have a few more, like the decanter in 184 and the ??? one in 190

any of them better?

[sick sentinel]

never get ??? trinket yet

[sweet summit]

[outer solstice]

well damage is not my concern, so I wonder from a survivability standpoint, especially on sludgefist

been a while since I simmed prot, is EHPS and DTPS still a thing to be simmed?

[sweet summit]

nah just dps

[outer solstice]

hmm

anyway, ty for the little pushs, let's see how it works tonight xD if I'm even called onto tanking, got my tank CDs set up to see and everything, is there a good swingtimer for bosses? (reading icyveins guide in parallel, so plz forgive if it's in there)

[sweet summit]

idk havent seen any

[outer solstice]

ty, gonna check on WAs then, pretty sure there are some

[hard timber]

I've seen a lot of uh...discouraging commentary on prot war since BFA. Are we still positioned poorly relative to other tanks in just about everything, is that overblown, what's going on there.

I've seen some ranking sites that aren't even listing prot war in their tank rankings at all

[dense pivot]

tier lists are meme here 🙂

[signal plover]

Huge meme

[dense pivot]

no reason to read them

[sweet summit]

we were the best tank for m+ by far for most of bfa, now we're not so people think we're shit

[outer solstice]

it's the same as with heals I think,... when the bottom of your tier lists start at good-B tier

[sweet summit]

prot warr just isnt a very popular spec

but we're fine

[north coral]

Darkee cleared all mythic for world first on prot war so we are fine in raids.

[hard timber]

oh so it's not like super handicapped or anything?

[sweet summit]

not at all. no

[dense pivot]

nope

[signal plover]

Not at all

[solid granite]

There's a reason RWF guilds use a Prot warrior

[hard timber]

Oh thank God I am gonna cry

[sweet summit]

yeah, thats for rally

[signal plover]

A reason is still a reason kek

[solid granite]

So, there's a reason

[hard timber]

I can handle being rejected from group applications if I know they're wrong

[outer solstice]

so when I use avatar and signet proccs me a bladestorm to I cancel it if it's a bad moment? or do I better make sure I don't use avatar before a bad moment?

[signal plover]

You can still block and parry during bladestorm so u should be ok

[hard timber]

Fury was fun but I have been prot since TBC

[outer solstice]

fury is the real meme atm

every DPS warrior worth his shit is going arms for most bosses

[hard timber]

but the spins

[outer solstice]

arms spins as well

[hard timber]

I just started SL after sitting out all of BFA and half of legion tbh

[outer solstice]

welcome back ^^

[night wadi]

I am sure there has been tons of discussion already. I am at 190 ilvl, 10/10N but haven't done many keys. I am hoping to eventually be at a point of spamming keys while still clearing raid weekly. Would thunderlords still be my best bet?

[hard timber]

All my friends waved me off prot so I just went fury because warrior's gotta warrior

[signal plover]

Get new friends

[outer solstice]

lul

[hard timber]

I am already uninviting people to my birthday party

[sweet summit]

can i come

[solid granite]

@night wadi I'd say The Wall provides more if you're doing both

[hard timber]

Everyone who tells me warrior is good can come, idc if they're lying or not

[solid granite]

it also plays better

[night wadi]

That is what I was thinking

[outer solstice]

well we all play warrior here I guess @hard timber

[signal plover]

If you haven't played prot warr in awhile, I'd suggest you do a solid read through of the icy veins guide (not wowhead) so that you don't get slapped around

[night wadi]

Also, was a little confused on part of the wowhead guide for conduits and am not sure if maybe it is outdated

[hard timber]

Is WoWhead really that off?

tbh i'm not used to icy veins being the more reliable source

[solid granite]

The wall + AM + Shieldwall conduit provides some serious Shieldwall uptime

[night wadi]

This mentions stalwart being pretty meh and saying only like 5s reduction. But I got that conduit from raid and it says reduced by 28s for shield wall

[signal plover]

Wowhead needs an update imo. Or at the very least you have to read every single conditional sentence to get full value out of it.

[hard timber]

I did notice when i was looking at some conduits and other stuff their tooltips differed from their written info

[night wadi]

Since I dont have my legendary made yet, I assume it is best to go with Brutal Vitality for now and switch to Stalwart once I get The Wall, or do I wait until I have the 2nd endurance conduit?

[hard timber]

I'll go see what icy-veins has to say I guess

[outer solstice]

I am nightfae, for tanking in raid do you think it's even viable to use podtender? I assume not, sounds like it super slows a potential CR

[signal plover]

Also, the icy veins guide is maintained by this discord (Mwahi specifically) whereas the wowhead one is not (although Llarold pops in every now n then)

[hard timber]

Oh shit he's here

[peak flower]

Does anyone else feel like warrior is lacking a bit this tier? I rolled one at beginning of xpac as my main, but i feel like i need to work 10x harder than i do on another tank. example would be i am 195 on warrior, leggo etc, and i feel l i die more m+ than i do on my 175 Veng DH, no leggo. Same keys, Same healer

[outer solstice]

I feel like it's often healers being distracted by failing DDs

but yeah I feel like I'm kiting a lot in M+

[rough egret]

hey guys, should I stick to guide and make my first leggo thunderlord for M+ ?

[peak flower]

yeah

i just struggle so much doing a 6 on warrior then i hop on my DH who is 20 ilvls lower and do it smoother on him lol

[sick sentinel]

Lacking a bit? Prot warrior is trash tier unfortunately

That being said This gives a chance for a balance pass that i hope will come early new year but i doubt

[outer solstice]

as the balance pass fury got? xD

[sick sentinel]

I play havoc dh so i feel you

Granted havoc is much better now but still lacks in ST dps heavily

[ionic fern]

Sorry what?

[outer solstice]

@sick sentinel I main arms atm tbf ...

[sick sentinel]

Just what I said

[wheat sleet]

what do you guys use for your potency conduit? I'm currently rolling with show of force, but not sure if there is a better one that I have yet to acquire

[ionic fern]

Without any arguments?

[outer solstice]

without arguments there is no legitimacy anyways

shrug

[sick sentinel]

Werent they made like hundred times? Compared to veng there is less cc, less mobility to kite, higher problems with aggro upkeep while veng can burn sigils from afar and keep throwing aoe glaives, extremely strong kyrian performance on ED sigil, kleia 10% shield souldbind, potions, high dmg, the magic demonic wards that makes vdh take more than 18% magic dmg overall, chains, fel devastation which gives a lot of health back and allows for a powerful defensive, very strong percentage based sigil of flame

And i can keep going

[outer solstice]

well vengeance is broken, but there are other tanks

[ionic fern]

Aggro issues? 🤔

[sick sentinel]

Plz Don’t get triggered, i also want the prot warrior to be better, vdh is just better now

[ionic fern]

I mean

something being better

doesn't mean everything else is trash

[sick sentinel]

Yes i might have used a different word

[ionic fern]

There's always going to be a "fotm".

[sick sentinel]

My bad, let me rephrase

[night wadi]

I do feel like I can occasionally have aggro issues, but that is mostly because I run with pretty high dps and they don't give me a second before they start blasting

[sick sentinel]

Prot warrior compared to vdh and bears is underperforming

[night wadi]

On the other hand, bear is boring af

[outer solstice]

compared to bears? xD

[sick sentinel]

The burst dmg This expansion is insane

[outer solstice]

with all the magic shit?

[sick sentinel]

Yes I personally believe that due to healing and health pool bears have they are extremely resilient

I ran +14 sanguine depths with guardian druid and he was insane

While i struggle to tank +13 on my vdh

Im not great player ofc

[night wadi]

I wish bear wasnt so damn boring tbh

[sick sentinel]

Im first to admit it

[sick sentinel]

Agreed

[night wadi]

I used to play it during legion and it was like 3 buttons

[sick sentinel]

Still is 😦 and i Don’t like how they look

[night wadi]

Macro mangle with ironfur and thrash with swipe

[uneven mason]

isn't thrash and swipe both onGCD

[night wadi]

I still wanna stick with warrior, but m+ seems a little disheartening lol

[wheat sleet]

Does the iron maiden conduit exist or was that the one they removed?

[night wadi]

Yeah they are

But it will prioritize thrash first

[uneven mason]

GCD macros don't work afaik

it'll cast trash and stop

[ionic fern]

It was removed.

[wheat sleet]

alright, thanks

[uneven mason]

Still confused as how Prot warrior is trash tier

I'm missing something

[night wadi]

Basically since you'd be spamming it. Say you use the macro 3 times, the first time would be thrash then it is put on cd. Then the next 2 times you use it, it would use swipe instead

[outer solstice]

he meant "worse than vgh"

dh

[jagged granite]

Hey guys quick question, IM about to craft a legenadry for thunderstrike or whatever Its called

should I choose feet or hands?

[uneven mason]

Right, but It hits Thrash, can't cast it, and stops

GCD macros have been nullified for years

otherwise folks would just roll their entire priority system into a single button

[night wadi]

Oh maybe they changed it. I used it during legion with no issues

[uneven mason]

like superscript used todo

[uneven mason]

I'm literally talking TBC

when they made it so you can't stack GCD abilities.

[night wadi]

Huh, I would have to see what mine was then. I know I had both on the same button

[night wadi]

Afaik feet

[jagged granite]

Thanks mate (Y)

[uneven mason]

maybe you had a cast mod in there, like holding down shift casts swipe rather than thrash

[signal plover]

Or u never cast swipe all xpac

[uneven mason]

But I agree, Bears are very easy to play, you get the same performance as a warrior who is using double digit braincells with flipperhands

Because that lego

[night wadi]

I can see once I am off work if I remember. I was pretty positive it was cast sequence or something. I rarely use macros so not sure

[hard timber]

Cast sequence is a little different from simple stacking

[uneven mason]

mmhmm

[uneven mason]

This is the proper answer.

[night wadi]

Maybe thats the case. I remember pretty consistently using only 2 to 3 buttons

That could also be true. Bears were kinda broken it felt

[uneven mason]

You probably were not casting Swipe and actually didn't notice

[hard timber]

so like

/cast Thrash
/cast Swipe

wouldn't work

[night wadi]

Yeah there was something prior to the cast command

[outer solstice]

#showtooltip ?

[night wadi]

If I could check on my phone, I would. I'll have to see on my pc once I am off work

[remote hawk]

new to retail here and playing a warrior alt that i tank with. Is the shield and wep as big of a deal as it is for arms or do we like want to just increase overall ilvl?

[sick sentinel]

Sim is the only right answer here unfortunately

Too mamy factors to give a straight answer

[wheat sleet]

you want a good shield for sure

usually this will just mean as high ilvl as possible though afaik

[remote hawk]

Aight

[uneven mason]

Shield is the biggest deal, weapon helps with aggro, but isn't as big a deal as shield.

[remote hawk]

doing some pvp to help get some extrea gear so wanted to see if i could get a pointer in what to upgrade to max first

Ill go with the shield first ^^

[sick sentinel]

why does everyone use ravager now?

[signal plover]

More damage, more rage than UF

In m+ anyway

[sick sentinel]

so is thunderlord stompers useless? what legendary should we run?

[signal plover]

In raid, ITF is the play (on most encounters) *alongside the wall legendary

[ionic fern]

Far from useless.

[signal plover]

TL still has tons of value because of Booming Voice

And you should always be running BV atm

[sick sentinel]

alright thank you

is there a website where u can check routes? since mdt is down

[uneven mason]

Big damage, big rage

[night wadi]

I've been using Unstoppable Force, but I really enjoy having Anger Management. Is Ravager still a safe choice for M+ over US? I plan to get The Wall as my first lego since I raid as well

[uneven mason]

UF Is 🤮

TC does so little damage

better off just revenging with that GCD to cycle AM a bit faster.

[heavy sail]

UF has some synergy with thunderlords

CDR for thunderclap directly correlating to CDR for demo shout

And the synergy with anger management as well obviously

It sorta works seamlessly in that way, and being passive dumbs down the rotation.

If you’re not running thunderlords and booming voice though, I think Ravager is definitely the play

[uneven mason]

UF actually doesn't add that much to the effective uptime of DS/ RPS from BV over ravager, and it certianly is a hit in damage/threat

even using TL

[heavy sail]

Diminishing returns on rage gen.

I’d have to sim the damage because I’m not sure on that

You’re probably right though

[uneven mason]

It's less about the math and more about the actual application

Ravager gives you much higher burst aggro

higher keys you're very likely to be running Bolster over AM as well, which weakens UF even further

[shrewd jasper]

anyone know the addon that shows my stats and IL of gear? All my other toons dont got it

[uneven mason]

deja character stats?

[shrewd jasper]

that an addon?

sorry guys, havent played in months

[uneven mason]

it would be an addon

[shrewd jasper]

dont see there

it*

[quaint ledge]

Anyone have a nice, clean DBM profile for SL?

With an emphasis on tank gameplay, to be clear

[short relic]

It’s shadow & light

@shrewd jasper

[umbral aurora]

Legendary ring effective for prot in m+? Not super high keys, up to +10

Or should I stick with thunderlord

[ionic fern]

You mean Signet?

If you enjoy it , play with it.

It's not as ideal as Thunderlords but at that keylevel it won't matter.

[uneven mason]

Its fun hitting Avatar and bladestorming

when I forget to swap legos

[hard timber]

Am I sad or happy rn

[undone jacinth]

Sad

[torn gulch]

sad for the time being

maybe happy if we will be able to wear 2 leggos at some point

this+the wall will be sick if it comes to that

[hard timber]

so...good, just not best?

[undone jacinth]

not good tbh

[heavy sail]

It would have great synergy with Wall

[hard timber]

So not good by itself

[heavy sail]

But seeing as you can’t currently have both

[torn gulch]

yea cd on it is too high

[heavy sail]

It’s pretty bad

[hard timber]

The Wall lowers CD right?

[torn gulch]

yep

[heavy sail]

Significantly yes

[torn gulch]

5s per shield slam

[hard timber]

Nice

[torn gulch]

which resets quite a bit

[hard timber]

Warriors do shield slam on occasion

[heavy sail]

We’ve been known to from time to time

[hard timber]

That would make it p amazing togther tho

[uneven mason]

quite possibly the worst lego effect of all time

[undone jacinth]

not really

[heavy sail]

The effect is great the issue is uptime

[undone jacinth]

there’s so many bad Legos

[hard timber]

I have literally seen hunter legos that heal you on feign death

[heavy sail]

Also seconding what dolphin said

[hard timber]

It was my first in legion

[heavy sail]

It’s far from the worst

[undone jacinth]

DK doesn’t even have one good one

as usual

[hard timber]

Why would Donkey Kong have any legendaries

[heavy sail]

50% shield wall on an entire raid would be/is excellent on some fights.

20% on demand DR for an entire raid

[undone jacinth]

25

[heavy sail]

Until you realize it has like 1% uptime

Oh yeah 25%

[torn gulch]

yea 8s very 4 minutes

not exactly 1% more like 3.5%

but yeah it's the same thing

[heavy sail]

I was just making a point that it’s terrible

[torn gulch]

oh yeah i agree

[undone jacinth]

there’s plenty of times it’s good in m+, just has a horrible cd and does nothing for u

[torn gulch]

if we'll be able to wear 2 leggos

expect the wall+this to be one of the combos

[heavy sail]

Moving the 3rd add during mythic huntsman

Would be nice to have a raid wide 25% DR

[ionic fern]

It's for party. Not for raid.

[heavy sail]

Word?

[torn gulch]

m+ it is then

[undone jacinth]

oh wait i thought u were just saying it should be raid

not that it is

[heavy sail]

I thought it was ig

[undone jacinth]

naw

[heavy sail]

It working for a whole raid would be a competitive use case though.

Shame

[undone jacinth]

it’d be usable now if it did probably

just about

still probably not

[uneven mason]

It wasn't good when it was a set bonus

I don't see that changing

[undone jacinth]

idk why dks don’t build the vamp blood party one

seems actually decent and they have nothing else

[deft vessel]

would you look at that, a 199 equipped warrior with a 184 weapon, I WONDER WHAT MY BIGGEST UPGRADE IS

😭

[lucid mauve]

@deft vessel Off topic but what website/addon is that showing priority for dungeons you should be running for upgrades?

[deft vessel]

it's a section of raidbots

go to raidbots.com , click droptimizer

select source (dungeons for example) select difficulty (the above is for mythic +10 end of dungeon) and then select how you want to run teh sim (the above is simply patchwerk with 1 boss, 5 min duration, nightly build)

[lucid mauve]

Thanks! I never noticed that part. That’s super helpful.

[deft vessel]

it is indeed

it's arguably more helpful for a DPS player than it is for a tank/healer but hey, it's there

standard caveats for simming tanks apply

[lucid mauve]

For sure, thank you!

[gaunt oar]

@deft vessel what addon was that?

The dungeon summary?

[deft vessel]

not an addon, simply a part of the raidbots.com site, scroll up a bit

[tepid nest]

Ye there are some spectacularly shit legendaries.

[hard timber]

Was this your card?

[signal plover]

??

[steady spruce]

Why is the best prot warrior on raider io running a 210 Signet with Versa and Mastery? https://raider.io/characters/us/hyjal/Shuibzugzug#season=season-sl-1

[forest fern]

ilvl is god?

[steady spruce]

for leg? not so sure

plus this kind of player probably can craft a good leg

[forest fern]

i mean he may have nothing higher in ilvl in which case, yes it is the best

what's he gonna craft for leg? unless its a legendary nothing can be crafted that's any good

[steady spruce]

thunderlord or the wall?

would be better than a 210 signet

at least i thought

[crimson mulch]

i was thinking about it the other day, honestly my best guess is that being able to slam the pack faster (and generate more threat) is worth more at those higher keys with hunter/mage dps than the survivability atm

[strong forum]

Cuz he's misinformed

Simple as that

[crimson mulch]

the other answer is that none of the legendaries make a big enough difference compared to actual gameplay for it to be significant, and that's the highest ilvl one they have

[steady spruce]

What about the stat choice, Mastery is kinda lame for prot and for arms, he probably could have chosen Haste and crit or haste and versa

[strong forum]

Mastery is good for arms

[hard timber]

Possible noob question but why is the best prot warrior on raider.io only 8/10H?

[steady spruce]

still fall behind haste and crit (unless 20% haste)

[strong forum]

Cuz he's not the best

[steady spruce]

many M+ try harder don't run that much raid

i mean the guy is runnin 17,18 et 19 keys, he deserves some recognition

[forest fern]

yeah raider IO isn't really a "raider" type system to be honest, its more for the m+ scene

regardless of what the name might suggest

[strong forum]

Darkee could easily stomp into +20s

Cuz he's 20ilvl ahead

Ykno

It's just that nobody is bothering to do so

[steady spruce]

second wartank on raiderio is a venthyr running the wall

[hard timber]

Isn't it capped at +15 for reward scaling atm?

[steady spruce]

y

[forest fern]

i mean we're also in the christmas holiday period atm, the competition prob ain't as harsh as when everyone has nothing to do again

[strong forum]

Especially on warrior

Cuz nobody is pushing on warri

So you're basically winning the special Olympics

[steep wraith]

Everyone who pushes rolls DH, so there's not much competition at all

[crimson mulch]

yeah warrior has a very limited pool of pushers it's hard to take anything out of the data available

[forest fern]

CARTMAN! DURRR!

[hard timber]

It's like the first week of a new Diablo seaon lol

[crimson mulch]

and almost everyone pushing is doing so with hunter/mage based groups

[steady spruce]

just to check, i'm gonna craft a r3 boots Thunderlord with haste and versa, is it good or am i doing a mistake?

[forest fern]

that's fine

[steep wraith]

the tank class has much lower impact in completing a key than your DPS and healer do. Can your healer keep everyone alive during pride? Can your DPS push high enough numbers? Those are the 2 main sticking points.

[crimson mulch]

honestly warrior isn't too bad for pushing if your group has giga dps

because until your shield block drops you can actually facetank shit really well

and as long as you have a hunter for MD you're fine to hold that threat

sucks not having a dispel or vortex or whatever but it works fine

[hard timber]

So I guess since I can't get the wall until I raid anyway, I'm prolly not hurting myself crafting thunderlord first?

[strong forum]

Yes

[jagged pier]

you can go get it in lfr

[hard timber]

I can't even do heroics yet lol

I have some fantastic greens atm

[crimson mulch]

unless you have a crystal clear goal that you're pursuing right now i don't think the order of legendaries matters at all

[steady spruce]

anyone has a perfect route for Necrotic wake? having some trouble with that dungeon

[daring salmon]

Hello all my fellow tanks!! Been away from wow for a long time and plan to roll a prot warrior! 💪🏻💪🏻

[uneven mason]

Hardest boss in that place is flipperhanded DPS who pull extra packs

[daring salmon]

For way of levelling is it best to level all the way through to get a feel or boost to 50?

[patent imp]

Any one knows a good war prot streamer atm ?

[civic rover]

@strong forum

[jagged pier]

snse or nomeratur

[patent imp]

@strong forum followed on twitch an yt, see u soon!

[civic rover]

if u live with people, watch nome with headphones

[amber herald]

Down to you, but I boosted to 50 and dpsed until 60 where I switched to prot

so it's doable

[strong forum]

thanks ^^

[exotic pewter]

Guys, i need advice. I've been running plenty of +6, +7, +8, the past two weeks and im still stuck at 194 ilv. Can't get a weapon or gloves (both at 171 ilv) and my shield is still 184. What advice do you have?

[amber herald]

But you'll have a better idea of the class if you level it

[uneven mason]

Just keep grinding

[exotic pewter]

maybe running lower keys (+5), because they're easier/faster to complete?

[uneven mason]

It took me like 30+ runs to ge a 2h to drop

[exotic pewter]

damn

[amber herald]

pvp

[uneven mason]

+5 is 194ilvl

[jagged pier]

keep grinding do m0s as a armour stack to get 184 gloves and wep and pvp

[uneven mason]

so won't help him much 😛

[daring salmon]

Just been away from wow and tanking in general so figured levelling might be a better option to relearn

[uneven mason]

Ah, for those 2 slots

yeah clear your m0s

[exotic pewter]

yeah, im currently at like 20+ runs in total, and still bad luck

[uneven mason]

then spam lower dung to fill em in

[jagged pier]

its not bad luck, just less loot dropping

[exotic pewter]

yeah, i've been filling some gear with honor/conquest from pvp

[uneven mason]

TBH the difference between a +5 clear time and a +7 is miniscule

[exotic pewter]

like the honor chest and trinket

[uneven mason]

be snobbish and only bring fire mages and MM hunters to your runs

[exotic pewter]

hahahaa cool advice

[uneven mason]

fast clears

big kaboom

[exotic pewter]

necrotic wake its a pain on any level, tho

and our bis weapon its from there, right?

[uneven mason]

NW Isn't bad as long as you enter with the assumption that any pack you plan to skip someone will run into it.

[exotic pewter]

ahahaha

true

Chaos always ensues in that big pull before the bridge

the one with the necromancer and the 4 lil casters

[lavish oracle]

Necropolis trash always feels like a process

[silver trout]

hahaha

[lavish oracle]

It's gotten better as we've run the dungeon more

[exotic pewter]

I try to use the orb yo get from the golem before them, the one that interrupts casts for 8 secs in aoe

[lavish oracle]

We mostly just skip the Necro 4 pack

[exotic pewter]

If you use that orb and your dps interrupt the big necro guy, its ez pz

i have no problem on that pack with my guildies.... but with pugs, oh god

[lavish oracle]

It's just dicey if shit doesn't die, plus I like being able to use the orb for something else

[amber herald]

levelling is definitely the better option for that

[lavish oracle]

Usually first round of adds on the 2nd boss so we can just hard burn

And use the orb from the 2nd boss in the necropolis

[uneven mason]

Literally use the orb at the beginning of that area for that pull 🤷‍♂️

[signal plover]

He said that's what he does later ;)

[steady spruce]

So just tried necrotic wake +10 and wiped on the first miniboss pack, group disbanded ^^ any tips for that pack?

[tall mural]

Nah it’s better to skip that pull and keep the orb

[uneven mason]

ah

[lavish oracle]

Yeah, we just save the orb by skipping

[uneven mason]

The hammer and spear there

big use

[tall mural]

You can pick them up in shroud

[lavish oracle]

Rogue gets hammer, anyone can grab spear

[exotic pewter]

spears on the necro before 2° boss, right?

[uneven mason]

Wish I had a rogue.

I've got boomkin typhooning mobs allover the place when they get hit by a spiteful

that made me very spiteful

[lavish oracle]

I haven't decided if I like pulling that Necro before 2nd boss

Usually shroud it

[steady spruce]

there is another spear just before that necro

[undone jacinth]

Pull it with pride and shield

free count

[steady spruce]

i think you might want to use first spear on the 2 skeletton after the bridge and the second spear on the necro before 2nd boss

[exotic pewter]

Use the orb in the necropolis? On which mobs?

[lavish oracle]

This is why I like necrotic wake

Lots of variation

Until necropolis, anyways

[exotic pewter]

Necropolis hasnt been an issue tbh

[undone jacinth]

it’s definitely an issue

[lavish oracle]

Just wait until the aboms live long enough to stack that debuff on you

[exotic pewter]

maybe its because i havent done any +10 still

[uneven mason]

they fixed tank damage in there.

kinda

don't get 1shot by the 3rd big smack

[exotic pewter]

cause in +8 I can still survive the aboms dmg, by kiting them

[undone jacinth]

it’s still insane

bad it’s nit just them

[lavish oracle]

We rotate CDs and use earth ele/trees if we need to

[undone jacinth]

even the gore splash or whatever does a lot

[lavish oracle]

Just never miss a kick on goresplatter

Ezpz

[undone jacinth]

pugs when you’re double pulling not the most reliable at that

[exotic pewter]

pugs are GREAT or the worst

no middle point

[tall mural]

I love when PUG dps quit after a wipe or two because they have no idea how time works

When the key is still doable in time

[uneven mason]

I had a PUG that managed to get every pack between 1st and 2nd boss because knocking back spitefuls is a good idea when you're trying to avoid mobs.

missed timer by 18s

[exotic pewter]

damn

[uneven mason]

like 9 deaths

I facepalmed hard

multiple times

So, folks that leave after 1 wipe

🤷‍♂️

[exotic pewter]

I love that pugs that get totally disbanded after the first death

not even a complete party wipe

just the first dps dying

[uneven mason]

Which is why I Only use MY key with guildies

[exotic pewter]

LOL

[uneven mason]

or people I know.

[exotic pewter]

me too

my keys are always with guildies or friends

and in that case i dont really care if we burn them down

[undone jacinth]

guild keys can be more frustrating if you expect more from them

[silver trout]

^

guildies not focusing stuff down is disappointing

[undone jacinth]

a lot of mine just don’t even know the mechanics because they don’t push

[silver trout]

ouch

[undone jacinth]

but they also don’t want me to explain because it’s condescending lol

always found it best to just add good puggers to friends

[strong forum]

i love my group

they manage to chain wipe to the same boss

but when they pug, they suddenly start playing the game

[silver trout]

LOL

they know they can get away with it

[strong forum]

its just amazing that they miraculously use their CC when in a pug without voice

but when in voice with guildies, they start drifting away not paying any attention

love to see it

[grand drum]

Are you me?

[undone jacinth]

can’t even get my boomie to run trees xd

[strong forum]

and then get mad when i dont call out shit

like fuck off

[tall mural]

ya, I have an amazing lack of DPS in my guild. they all don't want to do high keys, play off-spec hipster stuff or don't know mechanics.

[silver trout]

getting my dps to not AOE nuke the instant combat starts has been a challenge

[exotic pewter]

Dude, im from one of the crapiest NA servers, and im the raid leader of "core 2" on my guild

and yeah, its just dissapointing

seeing them failing the same mechanics again and again and again

[muted pendant]

does anyone know a good route for SoA with prideful to really get it on every boss? :/

[exotic pewter]

explaining stuff on discord for 5 minutes straight, just for them to ask the simpliest shit on middle of the fight

"what I was supposed to do? not standing on fire?"

[undone jacinth]

why do u stay

[woven radish]

Grab griffins to the right just after first boss

[exotic pewter]

Hahaha

[sweet summit]

I use rads route in SoA and its great, you dont have prideful for 3rd boss but you dont really need it there @muted pendant

[silver trout]

lol

[woven radish]

Then immediately go back and follow left path

[exotic pewter]

cause besides that, I like playing with them

[woven radish]

Will have prideful for all but 3rd boss

[exotic pewter]

we've been playing together for a couple years

and they're a fun group

[woven radish]

@muted pendant

[exotic pewter]

and for me its fun > completition

[silver trout]

sounds familiar

[exotic pewter]

we're just a AOTC guild, not even aiming for mythic

[muted pendant]

thanks, Ill try that!

[exotic pewter]

AOTC, +15 keys on time achiev, some pvp, and im satisfied

[silver trout]

i've had better luck pugging raids and M+ than doing stuff with guildies, but I like helping em and playing with them because they're a fun group

[steel mauve]

honestly it happens at every level of play, i was a raid leader for a CE top 200 NA team and that shit still happened, people asked questions about what to do after fucking up for 2 hours into the raid night

[fierce tendon]

Lol

[steel mauve]

15 pulls down "how do i handle X mechanic again?"

after explaining it every 3 pulls

[fierce tendon]

Thats inervas triangles for my group

[uneven mason]

I stopped raid leading because of this stuff, I was up to 2 packs a day of Winstons

Was about to step up to Camel wides and rip the filters off.

[silver trout]

😬

[undone jacinth]

it’s worse when the RL can’t explain tho

some ppl in my guild asked why they died and the RLs don’t know

I have to bite my tongue

[fierce tendon]

Just link death times on details and move on

[steel mauve]

thats not an ideal situation

[uneven mason]

one of my guildies asked if I was sick, because I started sounding like Hannibal from the Ateam during fights one week and my roomate was like "No he just always has a cigarette in the side of his mouth now, he's stepped up to using a fishbowl for an ashtray"

[undone jacinth]

they don’t even read deaths on details im pretty sure, sucks

[steel mauve]

i always had like 4-5 tabs open in warcraft logs on my second monitor and could at least detail every wipe we had, my job was log analyisis

[fierce tendon]

I was surprised my group downed heroic sludgefist last night with the added chain mechanic

[exotic pewter]

we're still stuck on normal hahaha

I dont trust most of them to survive the 2° boss on heroic

[undone jacinth]

my RL told people they got me killed by failing a mechanic when I died 1s in to the boss because the tank didn’t taunt on pull and I got meleed by the boss lol

[fierce tendon]

Had to solo tank the enrage phase cuz my pally died lol

[exotic pewter]

I can't do too much management during the fight 'cause im the tank too

and, at least for me, its hard to pay attention to the boss and to other people mechanics at the same time :S

[undone jacinth]

I found RL from tank easiest

[night wadi]

Man, people really just dont get it. Make a chain fence with them

Its such a nightmare lol

[exotic pewter]

lmao, true

[fierce tendon]

Coming from dps to tank makes me wish I could get dps mechanics to do them correctly

[exotic pewter]

Or Huntsman, when they DONT have to hit the shades so they build up stacks for like 5 secs

[night wadi]

Our guild doesn't have enough to raid. We have an officer who has a good few other friends in a different guild. Half of them can't follow mechanics or are super low dps, so we ended up having to pug about half our raid this week

Ended up fully clearing it. Was my first time raiding on my warrior, so it felt good to tank it all. Our other tank is back this week, so I will probably have to pug

[split wyvern]

If people are dying from being meleed I would ask are the dps blowing up the boss or mobs before the tank can get threat? Taunt is not a fail safe if you’re not waiting for the tank and you died it’s probably you

That’s why we used omen threat meter in Vanilla and BC

[exotic pewter]

(or hunters/rogues not using missdirection)

[split wyvern]

Rogues have feint no excuse

[fierce tendon]

I tell my dps this when they get 1 shot by mob pickups

Also getting 1 shot by sludgefist because they're too close

[undone jacinth]

the boss is running towards the tank and I’m opening with rake 1s in tp the fight, I got meleed after 1 spell, that only happens if the tank fails

he body pulled and didn’t taunt or cast a spell

[exotic pewter]

lmao

[undone jacinth]

then my RL says someone got me killed with a mechanic but obviously I can’t tell them the tank needs to taunt on pull because it sounds toxic

[split wyvern]

Still on you should have waited

[undone jacinth]

lol

oh dear

[split wyvern]

It happens lol hopefully you got the kill after

[exotic pewter]

one question

which order are you doing on Council?

[fierce tendon]

Niklaus Stavros frieda

so easy

[undone jacinth]

stav Frieda nick

[exotic pewter]

K

[undone jacinth]

pretty sure Frieda gonna merk u on mythic

[fierce tendon]

probably

her ability is so easy to deal with on hand normal

hc*

[night wadi]

Yeah we do the same as dolphin

[steel mauve]

untrue, for raid, tanks need to use mobility to get in, while taunting and hitting with an ability, no reason to need to hold back, 3 sunders was a long time ago

[steel mauve]

i still would have said some thing, incorrect information is worse than a player correcting information, because if you dont it will happen again'

[fierce tendon]

The one I kept seeing ppl get attacked by is mob pickups mid raid like during huntsman. Dps stack on Barghast and get hit as soon as he becomes utargetavle

[undone jacinth]

I literally got told I’d get kicked from the guild if I suggested strats or made comments in raid

I have to message my rl on discord after

lol

[night wadi]

Lmao sounds toxic af

[fierce tendon]

How hard-core is ur guild

[undone jacinth]

not very

2 day

[night wadi]

Apparently not very if the tanks are body pulling

[fierce tendon]

if u guys aren't like 5/10 mythic by now leave that toxicity lol

[undone jacinth]

I need to build up my logs

[steel mauve]

then they're the toxic ones and i would start looking for a new guild, because they arent gonna make it very far

[undone jacinth]

also they have some good players, just none of them are officers

the officers are really insecure about people fixing their strats in raid

But the RLs are awful at assignments and reading logs/detailsduring raid etc

[steel mauve]

a guilds back bone isnt the officer core, its the non officers who step up to the challenge not looking to be an officer whom can give their input and improve the guild itself

[fierce tendon]

Yeah because their lives only revolve around wow and any criticism is basically going after their life

if anyone gets that butthurt over strat in heroic raid lol

[undone jacinth]

their raid prep is really good, but their flexibility on raid night is non existent

even from our first raid they were saying we need to find a way of having less people input on strats, even though the change in strat that we did killed the boss one pull later

that happened like 5 times to where they said for people to just never input

[fierce tendon]

[undone jacinth]

every time we made a change we killed the boss within 3 pulls

[steel mauve]

there is a difference in valid critical input and too many chiefs, ive experienced that before too

[fierce tendon]

#unionizeraiding

[undone jacinth]

problem isn’t just the chiefs thing, it’s that the RLs themselves don’t change anything

[steel mauve]

but you shouldnt go all fascist lock down though

[undone jacinth]

they don’t seem to understand what’s actually going wrong

like they never reference the spell that’s killing 90% of people, they just tell people to stop playing for logs lol

[fierce tendon]

you know what they say, the gray parsers always have the most to say

[split wyvern]

That sounds toxic with your guild Dolphin, tanks make mistakes too and if they do they need to know so they can fix it.

[undone jacinth]

yeah will see how it goes

[split wyvern]

It’s also how you say it not what you say but it’s hard to interpret words o. The internet most not all take it as an attack

I always think of it like a sports team

Good communication is how we win

[rough egret]

which healer fits our style ?

[silver trout]

yeah, it's often hard to provide input often because people tend to take shit personally when it comes to how they're playing

[rough egret]

for m+

[split wyvern]

I like shammy and resto Druid

Pally is decent too

[fierce tendon]

Resto sham and hpal are nuts for us

But those are just top tier

[silver trout]

I've had good luck with shaman and monk but we're scrub teir M+

[split wyvern]

Disc priest and holy is 50/50 imo

[undone jacinth]

they are nightmares in my experience

[fierce tendon]

In m+ cd usage is what makes or breaks disc

[undone jacinth]

just die to everything and can’t heal tanks

[fierce tendon]

I have problems with holy

[split wyvern]

If I get a priest or monk I just think to myself I need to play more defensive

[undone jacinth]

monk is good at tank healing

or can be

[split wyvern]

Sometimes I’ll over pull just to test the waters

[silver trout]

I tend to feel that way with disc priests

[rough egret]

ty i wanna try it tonight

[undone jacinth]

only healers I have issue with are priests and druids

but druids got good utility

[fierce tendon]

Man our group plugged an absolutely massive monk, 6.9k healing ass

[uneven mason]

a good monk is realllly smooth

[split wyvern]

I love Druids and shammys been hunting for one to friends list for a while... most of mine are priests though

[fierce tendon]

idk how u can even heal that muh

[uneven mason]

a bad mistweaver

is like

doing a dungeon while sliding down a balsawood swingset with no pants on

[fierce tendon]

Lol

[split wyvern]

Lol

[uneven mason]

It might be ok

[silver trout]

lol

[uneven mason]

but that splinter is coming

you know it

[fierce tendon]

I can do without an absolutely massive healer if I have dps that interrupts spells tho, that shut never happens

[uneven mason]

If you have a group that knows how to passive CC and lock down casters most of these dungeons become insanely easy.

[fierce tendon]

Yeppppp

Can only Shockwave and stormbolt so many things

[uneven mason]

and intimidating shout

and pummel

and reflect

and Leap out of LOS suddenly

[fierce tendon]

man I dont take the tremble cc shout thing and intimidate makes me so anxious on some pulls lol

[uneven mason]

take menace

seriously, its pretty big

but

aim that knockback

don't be a flipperhanded boomkin

I ❤️ it for the multiple caster packs in NW

I throw em at the wall so they bunch up

and it stops them from necrobolting me for quite some time

[hard timber]

That would actually be pretty nice tbh

as long as you don't boomkin it

[fierce tendon]

Nw is the one I get most anxious about lol

That dungeon is new players nightmare

[uneven mason]

Necrobolt basically does double its listed damage

because it stops healing

nasty

[undone jacinth]

reflect and orb = easy

[uneven mason]

Orb yes

[hard timber]

I try to interrupt it as often as I see it but it sucks when you're the only one

[uneven mason]

but when you have a PUG that somehow managed to get all 3 of the caster packs

right

Really what kills me is generally the DoT

[undone jacinth]

which dot

[uneven mason]

Boneflay

if htat gets off

big ouch

[warm plinth]

Spicy af

[uneven mason]

I had 3 stacks on me once and the healer was like "You're really hard to keep alive" Golly thanks, I'll remember that next time my max HP is reduced by 45% and I'm taking 6700dmg a tick

[warm plinth]

😂

How dare you get hit by uninterruptible mechanics

[uneven mason]

I know right, its not like I had 100% intended to skip that pack

instead the damn Bonecarver gets mended 3x because everyone is flipperhand slapping the big dude

meanwhile I've got a skull on it

😡 Pugs

[warm plinth]

That mob is one of the ones where it's completely trivial in low keys and then at some point it just suddenly matters and people don't know what's happening lol

[uneven mason]

Yeah, higher you get on fortified the wose that dot sucks

[hard timber]

I have uh

QE DungeonTips and Big/Littlewigs

exactly because i don't want to be that guy

[warm plinth]

XD

[night wadi]

Man, ive done NW like 4 or 5 times. I was like 179 and my friend was a 185 mistweaver. We struggled hard in +2 and 3 because people weren't interrupting at all

[warm plinth]

At least the initial hit of boneflay is blockable though so there's that. But the debuff is nasty

[hard timber]

My addons skull mobs for me and everything

and I think Plater is doing something with nameplates too, I've noticed mobs with CC get a special outline

[warm plinth]

Yeah, like the Agents in Torghast

[hard timber]

Yep

[warm plinth]

I was wondering what addon was doing that lol

It's very handy

[night wadi]

I'm using bartender and suf right now. Might switch to elvui and plater though

[hard timber]

So i at least know what to try to do, if nothing else

[warm plinth]

idk what addon is doing the automatic skulls though, but it does it in a few dungeons

[hard timber]

I prefer to learn by doing but it's also 4 other peoples' time

[night wadi]

Yeah thats the hard part

[undone jacinth]

dbm auto skulls a few mobs I think

[warm plinth]

I'm not using DBM

[hard timber]

Skulls is DBM or LittleWigs

[warm plinth]

Hmm, my group all have littlewigs as far as I know but they're all very confused when it happens lol.

[undone jacinth]

is auto and only needs one person

I do also use an auto marker WA for everything else though and that sometimes overrides

[hard timber]

Also ngl i still don't know every feature of every addon I use so I am occasionally surprised when they do stuff

like the three different settings I have to vendor grays

[ocean bloom]

most people dont know how to config DBM/BW so dont feel bad lol

[hard timber]

when they dumped all the new dungeon info into it I had to go in and manually move all the 48-pt font that was burying the middle of my screen

for littlewigs

I hadn't noticed a problem before bc they weren't picking everything up yet

and then suddenly i log in and bam

WoW - The Visual Novel

[uneven mason]

Had to write my guild a tutorial for this back in WOTLK on how I wanted things set up, because people were like "I don't know when defile/shadowtrap is coming"

[warm plinth]

I know how to config it but I can't find the automarker in LW

[hard timber]

It might be buried in plater or another addon too, idk

I just know I only have a few new addons and even less of them deal with dungeon stuff

I actually do have some triggers in plater to auto-set skulls

Like three different ones, for specific mobs or spells

[exotic pewter]

The only thing I config (or to be precise, I know how to config) its what spells to activate/deactive.

[hard timber]

It's in scripting

[steady spruce]

There were 3 spears in necrotic wake on beta, is that still the case?

[sick sentinel]

what on use trinket do you reccomend people getting in general? i have one the SD and spires ones for automatics

[jagged pier]

is that the armour one?

from SD cause that ones trash

[sick sentinel]

just got it today

[jagged pier]

i mean that ones fine

you dont need an on use trinket

[sick sentinel]

and the spires haste blue buff one, i currently have those 2 equipped

[sonic garden]

How many stacks do you guys let necrotic build up before kiting?

[fierce tendon]

Its necrotic week?

[sonic garden]

next week

[fierce tendon]

gonna have to test i assume

[dense flame]

Generally 20-30. But really depends on the packs.

But considering some of the damage output maybe sub 20?

[sick sentinel]

I don't really understand but in BFA there was one week i was doing 15's, and it was necrotics, but for some reason on that mechanic alone i had total and god given clairvoyance on how to manage and handle necrotic stacks

[jagged pier]

kyrain potion cleanses it though right?

[dense flame]

Yeah I think so

[sick sentinel]

and so for that whole week, necrotic just made total sense to me, and i could time any key i wanted to

[fierce tendon]

wait really haha

[jagged pier]

so 30 cleanse then 30 probs

[sick sentinel]

dunno how or why i did good at it then, but it was nice

[fierce tendon]

kyeian flask makes things so easy

[sick sentinel]

yeah, so i have spare meat hook, grim codex , power crystal, and both tank and dps decks from alch/inscript

[sonic garden]

Necrotic counts as a curse?

[sick sentinel]

all at or around 184

[sweet summit]

its a bleed

[fierce tendon]

wait do dwarves still have the bleed shrug? Have they been able to not deal with necro?

[sweet summit]

yes

[fierce tendon]

looool

[sweet summit]

every 2 minutes

[fierce tendon]

thats pretty nice

sitting over here with blessing of kragwa

[deft vessel]

what do you guys run in first endurance slot?

[jagged pier]

sw one

[deft vessel]

I've been running the ignore pain one, but most people I see run the last stand one

[sonic garden]

We don't have any anti-bleed abilties right, other than flask?

[deft vessel]

correct

[uneven mason]

To remove it?

Nope

[deft vessel]

sw one?

[uneven mason]

to mitigate, Ignore pain will reduce ticks

by up to 50%!

[jagged pier]

Stalwart guardian

[deft vessel]

ah, "shield wall one" I see lol

hm

they all seem so oddly inconsequential

[jagged pier]

its preference

there isnt a 'best conduit' choose which you like best

i like the LS stand one as well

but i run the wall 100% of the time

[deft vessel]

I'd think ignore pain is the one that gives me the most benefit since ignore pain is the thing I use the most, but then the rage gen one seems worth it, especially if running bolster, but then also uptime on shield wall totally seems worth it (but then I'd probably feel better if running the wall and/or anger management which I don't in high keys right now)

[jagged pier]

so its between LS and SW ither way

[deft vessel]

yaeh I'm not asking for "best" just trying to get a feel for what others use

[fierce tendon]

I like running fueled by violence for m+ and shield wall for raid

heal from deep wounds is decent

[deft vessel]

I've seen mentions here and there that it's not that good just purely tuning wise

[jagged pier]

its not really IP one is better

[fierce tendon]

most of them are either pretty similar or the effect has a very minor difference

[deft vessel]

hm, I might experiment with the last stand one when running bolster, we'll see

[lavish oracle]

Unnerving Focus certainly feels the best in my experience

It's such huge boost to survivability during last stand

[deft vessel]

the last dungeon I did I had ~60% uptime on ignore pain, so it strikes me as the most generally useful one, but that's a bit too "feely crafty"

which I don't like lol

[lavish oracle]

With bolster, yeah

[fierce tendon]

inspiring presence in finesse makes me feel like a raid healer lul

[deft vessel]

see I feel like that's great, but I find that in the use cases of rallying cry the default already gets the job done real well, but if you have to go through a finesse conduit then that's probably the best one

I'm running pelagos though so no finnese slot (for better or worse)

[heady plaza]

Most people run pelagos for m+ right?

[deft vessel]

maybe? dunno

I like the spear the most

night fae is also pgood for m+

in the best cases it's better than spear

ever so slightly

[jagged pier]

pelgos always

[deft vessel]

but the "best cases" are not as consistent as spear best cases

and if running kyrian then definitely pelagos

[lavish oracle]

I'm definitely swapping out of pelagos potency path once we unlock 2nd potency

[deft vessel]

oh? why so?

[lavish oracle]

Show of Force blows

[deft vessel]

doesn't though, that's my impression of course

[lavish oracle]

Piercing verdict goes in 2nd potency, might swap to Stalwart Guardian in my first slot

It's like less than 1% DPS in sims afaik

Oh, sorry, less than 1/10th of a percent ST, according to bloodmallet

[deft vessel]

well sure, but the point is that extra defensiveness has diminishing returns

if you can survive without defensive conduits then why wouldn't you push damage, however minimally

[lavish oracle]

Our extra defensives allow us to do more damage

[deft vessel]

but regardless, most of the conduits are very minimal, so, really, just run whatever you're most comfortable with

[lavish oracle]

Because we dump rage into revenge

[deft vessel]

eh, not necessarily, you can make an argument about saving healer GCDs in a truly end game optimized group, but that's splitting hairs a little bit

so, really, down to personal preference, so all power to you with your choice of one potency conduit

[lavish oracle]

And in M+ even just not having to kite more often is a bigger DPS boost

[deft vessel]

well sure, but some mechanics you kind of...have to kite, if the beasts buff is not stunned in HoA then shield wall ain't saving you on a fortified week

if you're doing content appropriate for your gear level of course

at the end of the day, the complexity of the game and the encounters doesn't really introduce such "black and white" decisions, and with the conduits all being ...relatively equal in their mediocrity, choosing what you feel most comfortable with/what suits your play style and/or group the most will go the furthest

[lavish oracle]

I think Show of Force is somewhat exceptional in its mediocrity but you do you

[deft vessel]

that's fair, I've not actually managed to use it yet

so my own opinion of it is not really "formed"

I simply have an impression of it from what I've been reading/looking up

I've stuck to piercing verdict since I've unlocked it, have not looked back since

[uneven mason]

Show of Force falls into the same trap as UF, TC Just does too little damage at base, even jacking it up by a considerable % still feels very lackluster

[valid knot]

Best Covenent for prot in m+?

[fierce tendon]

Kyrian

[valid knot]

Is it much better then others?

[deft vessel]

kyrian or night fae

no it's not

it's pretty great though

and so is night fae

[fierce tendon]

the ability is crazy for kiting and the mobs that jump

[deft vessel]

and night fae is crazy for spammy casts

¯_(ツ)_/¯

niche abilities and uses

I do prefer kyrian spear though

I find it more universally appealing/practical/cooler

[valid knot]

My friend is considering prot on his warrior, he is night fae atm

[fierce tendon]

either way nobody is gonna care at the end of the day if ur kyrian or night fae when they invite you to a group

[deft vessel]

if they invite you ;-;

[valid knot]

how are prot warrior atm anyways?

[deft vessel]

okay

[valid knot]

in m+

[fierce tendon]

vdh>other tanks

in that order

[deft vessel]

community perception on the other hand is a different matter

[lavish oracle]

Yep, pretty much

[uneven mason]

NF is strong if you can keep the mobs in the puddle

[lavish oracle]

Might be VDH>=Bear>other tanks

[uneven mason]

VDH is top right now because of being able to almost totally negate damage while they build aggro then kite like a god

mostly the kiting

but its not that they're inherently "more tanky" in general than the other tanks

[fierce tendon]

also their dps is nut

[uneven mason]

while they're tanking yes

[deft vessel]

it's really their DPS that mostly informs community perception

they're not any less tankier than many other tanks

[uneven mason]

But any logical key someone would want todo is completable by any of the tanks

[deft vessel]

and all the tanks will need to kite some mechanics

thus the current situation

[uneven mason]

In higher keys yeah, mind you, we're not far off from how we were at the start of BFA with how dungeons are tuned

the difference is that they have the rewards scaling off

with the cap being +15

rather than +10

[deft vessel]

I think we're definitely better tuned than we were at the start of BfA

[uneven mason]

+10 was the cap in 8.0, so it didn't feel so obtuesly overtuned when you tried to reach the caps

[lavish oracle]

How do you mean?

[uneven mason]

People focused on tank performance in +10s or so in 8.0, rather than how they're doing in +15s

[lavish oracle]

Oh, I meant Diruuo saying we're better tuned

[gray spear]

Hey guys, are there any high m+ prot streamer recommended to follow?

[uneven mason]

Oh, prot in 8.0 was horrifyingly hard to play properly

[strong forum]

was it

[uneven mason]

We were very strong, but if you blinked

[lavish oracle]

I don't know if I agree

[uneven mason]

For the general population Nom

smoothbrains who can't press shield block properly

[deft vessel]

I definitely feel we were in much worse shape at the start of BfA than we are at the start of shadowlands

[uneven mason]

or try and press SB while mobs are casting

[lavish oracle]

Biggest problem I had was not being able to block ranged attacks

[deft vessel]

in almost all regards

[exotic pewter]

Most problems that I see with new tanks, its positioning and kiting

[lavish oracle]

Otherwise, we were literally the best tanks in some keys

[exotic pewter]

rather than rotation

[uneven mason]

We had the most versitile kit in 8.0 still, but you had to think 5 steps ahead

[deft vessel]

at the second half of BfA, after 8.1, yes, but not really before that

[lavish oracle]

Underrot, Waycrest, Freehold for sure

Nah

8.0

[uneven mason]

Azathoth isn't wrong

[deft vessel]

you seem to not understand what I'm saying

[uneven mason]

but if Prot iddn't flow naturally for you

[deft vessel]

I'm not saying we were "weak"

[uneven mason]

you'd get squished

[deft vessel]

I'm saying we were weaker than we are now

we are also not weak now

[uneven mason]

Mmm

[deft vessel]

but the spec did not become the "undisputed m+ king" until 8.1

[lavish oracle]

All tanks are way weaker now than we were start of BfA

[uneven mason]

Diruuo we were actually stronger than I'd say

more challenging

but the fact that Prot in 8.0 could pull over 100k DPS

while cycling CDs like they're pez

was a big deal

[deft vessel]

hm, difference in perception then i suppose, cooldown management did not change significantly between the expansions, we scale better with gear now (the buffed passive), beyond that, the spec didn't play that much differently

[uneven mason]

Our main power was killing the pull before our CDs faded.

yes passively we're stronger

[deft vessel]

DPS wise, yes we were stronger, but that's because DPS was very intentionally nerfed between teh expansions for prot warrior (and some other tanks tbh)

[uneven mason]

due to obscene str to armor conversion

IDK why they couldn't just let us continue to do strong AE damage

like it was one thing to cap our dmg

[lavish oracle]

Our CDs also just had like perfect CDs for M+ in BFA, anger management was low-key busted

[uneven mason]

but to reduce it by like 70% on TC in addition

like, do they want us to use BSC THAT much?

[lavish oracle]

And we still don't use it lol

[uneven mason]

AM in BFA was the only thing making prot strong

its so 🤮

if they made rev produce rage

it'd be a button

[heady plaza]

I dont understand the kiting meta much. I watch streamers do +15s and they barely kite

[uneven mason]

now yeah

was the first few weeks

gear is catching up

[heady plaza]

So if thats the case, why are dh still the top

[uneven mason]

so the pulls are dying before they have to kite.