protection

[bleak chasm]

Well I really don't want to go Kyrian on all my tanks

And my warrior would be my third

[ocean bloom]

@hallow phoenix thx!

[hallow phoenix]

Why no reforged

[last mason]

will we ever be able to buy horde bfa pvp mogs if we're alli

[bleak chasm]

too soon

[sick sentinel]

because reported sucks shit

[chilly brook]

What OG

[sick sentinel]

it's horrible

[chilly brook]

Reforged replaced OG

[bleak chasm]

reroll horde

[chilly brook]

Like OG legit got updated to reforged

Just locked into a lower setting

[sick sentinel]

play the wc3 from 90s un-ironically better game in all regards

[chilly brook]

You cant

And WC3 is from the 2000s

[tacit smelt]

Ok earlier i asked if the Mechagon trinket from De other Side was good and was told yes, i got a 207 one and idk what it does, anyone care to elaborate?

[sick sentinel]

2002 or so but I hear you

[chilly brook]

Depends on the condition

Usually grants a big stat buff

But if you're low HP it becomes a health pot

If your healer is low on mana it becomes a mana pot

[sick sentinel]

okay I need that thing then

[chilly brook]

And if your target is low hp it's an execute

Theres a weakaura that will tell you what its gonna do

[sick sentinel]

There doesn't seem to be much good trinkets this expansion at least not from dungeon

they all seem to come with a caveat rather than like waycrest crit and rezan eye that you just attack and you get a buff

even spires haste thingy you still need to sit in the blue which may not be feasible sue to positioning

[chilly brook]

Idk

Theres some pretty good ones from dungeons

Scale, phial, hook, anima emitter

Etc.

[sick sentinel]

I do have a the hook one and the hang out beside a gem and get haste one

been using the veracity deck and spires one for haste

[sonic garden]

Do you guys feel like you're taking alot of damage as a prot warrior?

[chilly brook]

Voracity just isn't good now with the ilvl options

Imho

[chilly brook]

Depends

[bleak chasm]

i notice it alot more on my brm

[chilly brook]

Against things that are supposed to be kicked yes

Against things I can mitigate no

[sonic garden]

Like i was running sanguin and my healer buddy was saying he finds im taking way more damage than other tanks

may be me being bad but idk

[left cave]

will shireld block block his rapid fist thing

[sick sentinel]

If you are taking too much damage probably not using ip/sb/sr/sw effectovely

[chilly brook]

Our druid healer has basically said he won't run with any other tank besides me

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[sick sentinel]

or standing in crap.

[sonic garden]

just looked over my damage taken chart and it looks like im not getting enough up time on shield block

oops

[left cave]

whats sr and SW?

[sick sentinel]

Not having shield block up can be incredibly painful I learned from only playing p warrior in bfa

reflect and wall

[sonic garden]

whats the highest uptime you can have on sb?

[sick sentinel]

you can reflect a ton of crap and it gives 20% mag dmg red

[chilly brook]

far too many variables to be able to tell you what's going on without a VOD or logs

And shield block uptime isn't important

effective casts are

[sonic garden]

i gotcha, it looks like on some of these pulls my problem is conserving sb for an ability and im taking way too many melee hits

[sick sentinel]

it's more about making sure you know what type of damage attacks will do and using the proper CD and using wall early for big smh abilities

[sleek thorn]

Tanknotes has good damage profiles for dungeon mobs and bosses

[sick sentinel]

like if I'm fighting spell spamming boss is borderline useless to use sb other than for slam buff

or if I pull a huge group and don't bolster/ sb I will get flattened by standard melee

[wooden torrent]

Is there any reason a protwar would have Whirlwind even on their bars when Revenge is an ability?

[signal plover]

No

We don't use ww

[wooden torrent]

Just one of those vestigial flavor abilities for prot then huh?

[signal plover]

We'll see if they do anything with it I guess

And some limited memes in torghast but pretty much forgettable atm

[brazen goblet]

what talents do we use

[wooden torrent]

i'm currently using 2-2-2-1-2-1-1

[last mason]

has anyone else actually been having a harder time getting into keys this xpac than any other

esp bfa

[chilly brook]

I would almost never use punish its just not worth

[signal plover]

Same tbh

[wooden torrent]

war machine then, for more ignore pains?

[chilly brook]

no

[steel mauve]

devestator > punish

[chilly brook]

Devastator

[steel mauve]

war machine isnt used

[chilly brook]

For keys

For raid

[weary notch]

I've been trying to figure out when it's worth (or if it's worth) using Anger Management with The Wall in raids

[chilly brook]

And sometimes I run ITF/AM for keys

[chilly brook]

always in raid

Except for maybe sludge

[weary notch]

wait, so both Icy Veins and wowhead guides are outdated now? They both say never for ITF

[chilly brook]

Do they really?

[steel mauve]

no it doesnt

it literally says it can be competitive

[weary notch]

oh, it has changed

[chilly brook]

and here's the M+

[steel mauve]

single target itf is better but if you have aoe/multi target then ravager will probably pull ahead due to dps\

[weary notch]

Icy Veins says: While the Haste provided by Into the Fray Icon Into the Fray is a nice passive bonus, it can feel a bit underwhelming when compared to the other 2 options. Haste reduces the cooldown of Shield Block Icon Shield Block, Shield Slam Icon Shield Slam and some other abilities making it a somewhat competitive option in certain scenarios.

[chilly brook]

like single target lol

tbh I even enjoy it in keys

[weary notch]

I feel naked without bolster in keys, and rage starved without Ravager

[chilly brook]

More haste means more autos which means more shield slams which means more rage

🙂

btw the single target gain with ITF is pretty substantial

and rage generation wise I only need 2 extra shield slams every 45 seconds to beat out ravager

Or rather to be on par

[weary notch]

I may try it again now that I have the wall. But I'm not raiding Mythic or pushing high keys, so it doesn't really matter what I pick

[steel mauve]

wouldnt it be 4 shield slams?

to be on par

[chilly brook]

no

Ravager is 50 rage

[steel mauve]

60

[chilly brook]

I just slapped it on target dummys

it was 50

[steel mauve]

should be 60, deals damage over 12 seconds with 10 rage time it deals damage, should deal damage every 2 seconds

[chilly brook]

10.2 seconds for me

got 50 rage when it faded

hmmm

second time it was 60

Either way I'm still out generating it with 3 shield slams

The Wall something something

[steel mauve]

with the wall 3 slams would be the same, 4 to out generate it though, but technically you would also need to in 55 seconds not 45, if you want to count the 10 seconds it takes to generate that 60

[chilly brook]

no

Shield slam is 20 baseline

The Wall takes it to 25

[steel mauve]

no

[weary notch]

15 baseline

[burnt cove]

?

[steel mauve]

15 base 20 with wall

[burnt cove]

read tooltip with and without wall

[chilly brook]

why did I get 25 on shield slam on the dummy then tf

hmmm

[steel mauve]

unless a crit differs, but shouild gasin more than just 5 rage, but the tool tip is correct on it

[chilly brook]

I'm gonna assume it was a combination of auto attack and getting hit

ye definitely getting hit and auto attack

[steel mauve]

most likely devestator then

[chilly brook]

nah

2 from auto attack

3 from getting meleed

79.9 shield slams in the sim

71.8 from non itf

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[mellow patio]

Red bar go up

[chilly brook]

Seems about right 74 casts on a 5.5 minute fight with artificer but then again there's enough downtime that it could potentially be larger

[mellow patio]

Red bar

Go

UP

[lilac quail]

do we like Thunderlord or The Wall more?

[chilly brook]

loaded question, for what content

[oak blaze]

I’m curious about this too. For mythic plus.

[chilly brook]

TL is better for M+

The Wall is good if you do both

Both will work for either content

[oak blaze]

Thanks. Will probably only do mythic plus. Guess I’ll go TL.

Thank you for the answer.

Are wars still considered the worst tanks for mythic plus. Still gonna play it but was curious.

[mellow patio]

That’s all based on community perception tbh. Are warriors the lowest represented? Probably pretty close. But they are defensively very strong, and tank balance is in an incredibly good spot for the most part

[oak blaze]

That’s good to hear. I really don’t care about meta. I just don’t want to be declined because I chose to go warrior tank....

[chilly brook]

That will happen

But if you have a good io it won't matter

[fallow mortar]

what is a good io?

[chilly brook]

rn anyone I see around 700 seems decent

1k plus is "good"

I'm like a 697 shitter 😛

[fallow mortar]

stares at 571 Looks like I need to get better then

[mellow patio]

Eh no one really knows what good is

[grizzled skiff]

I have both and I like the wall more. Demo shout doesn't let you face tank for longer to build decent threat before u run like a bitch, which is what you do in high keys.

[fallow mortar]

Well I figure getting past the +10 mark is where you can say you understand how to tank

[mellow patio]

Once you see the world first raiders push you’ll have a better benchmark

But yeah if you can competently complete and time a +10 you can have a gold star from me

[grizzled skiff]

I am pretty set on the wall being the better choice.

Fight me.

[mellow patio]

I mean, it’s a decent choice.

[fallow mortar]

so close.... I am clearing +8s, but I really need to buckle down and get my rotation together as well as learning when to kite

[mellow patio]

But TL is going to give you more value over the course of a high key imo

Learning when and how to effectively kite is really important

You’ll also find more success as you pull around dps

[fallow mortar]

I have been tempted to switch BV to DR, but I think I just need my DH to hold back just a bit longer

[chilly brook]

tbh completing +10 rn is on your group not you

[sick sentinel]

Hi everyone. I'm a new tank could you tell me the % haste, versatility, crit, mastery I should have.

[grizzled skiff]

Haste is king. Vers and crit close 2nd for keys. I go with haste-vers tho since vers is ye olde reliable.

[sick sentinel]

Ok......these Stat Weights Haste (6.08)> Versatility (5.67) = Mastery (5.67)> Crit (5.24)> Strength (4.83) are fine can I follow them?

[steel mauve]

no

stat weights are a worthless metric

only follow a priority and forget about stat weights/pawn

ilvl > haste > vers >=crit > mastery

[spring flax]

which leg do prot warriors take for m+?

[steel mauve]

thunderlords mostly

[spring flax]

feet or hands? or does it matter?

[fallow mortar]

no I definitely have problems as well. I am sure as fuck not perfect

there are times where I am too confident and forget to SB XD

i also need to be less stingy with SW

[steel mauve]

if you raid thunderlords on feet, if not then doesnt really matter, the raid drops bis gloves stats where as boots are either haste/crit or haste/mastery, assuming you barely value vers more than crit for raiding

[sick sentinel]

ok I understand .... I will try to find out the percentage I have to get for stat

[steel mauve]

there is no % to get for any stat, no soft caps or hard caps to get

as much haste as possible with out saccing ilvl, and the other 3 stats are almost nearly tied

[serene jackal]

Does signet of tormented kings work on Prot warrior Ravager?

[sick sentinel]

got it .. thanks a lot for the help

[steel mauve]

no

[serene jackal]

thats some lame ass shit then.

[buoyant pasture]

@sick sentinel for reference, Kungen the main tank for <Nihilum Reborn> has 10% vers, 12% crit, 22% mastery and 24% haste in his current gear. He is 208 ilvl.

Alternatively a prot war in ComplexityLimit named Darkeewar has 20% vers, 14% crit, 27% mastery and 12% haste. He is 222 ilvl

With just this limited sample size I would say to aim for a minimum of 10% vers, 9-12% crit, 18% mastery, and upwards of 15% haste.

[delicate latch]

Hi guys, I am ilvl 194. Just did a +7 Halls of Atonement. Was getting absolutely destroyed, from I think the bleed debuff. Hoping someone might be able to share some insight. I have read all the guides and still unsure

[jagged pier]

either kyrain pot to remove it or kite

so you dont get it

[sick sentinel]

@buoyant pasture Thk

[delicate latch]

Do prot warriors take more damage from that than other tanks? My prot pally friend was with me and thought I was taking a lot more damage than he does

[jagged pier]

stat wise you want as much haste as possible while have are much haste as possible, the thing is ilvl trumps all

and CN has lots of mastery heavy gear so darkee had a lot of mythic raid loot, so his mastery is very high

[jagged pier]

not really its a bleed, we just dont heal ourselves so all the bleed damage needs to but healed off us

[delicate latch]

Okay, I was using the Kyrian pots regularly but maybe I need to kite more

[buoyant pasture]

On the same vein as Cassie’s question, is it more smart or more lazy to include Phials in a macro (I'm using mine in a Rallying Cry macro just so that I am being sure to use them).

[jagged pier]

thats a really bad idea, why would u use the pot if your rallying?

what if you need ot purge a dot and dont want to rally?

very inefficient usage

[buoyant pasture]

My warrior is pretty fresh so I have been leveling and can't readily trust my healers. Not even geared enough for mythics yet as it's technically an alt

[jagged pier]

well you can be undergeared for mythics, and even if you dont trust healers macroing it to rally is still not a good idea as then you have rally that can save, and pot if there are on seperate keybinds which is 2 options compared to 1 if you macro them

[buoyant pasture]

Fair point. Asking questions now before it matters in a group. I'll work on separating the macro then.

[delicate latch]

Would someone be happy to take a look at my character for me?

[jagged pier]

what do you want looking into?

[delicate latch]

Just my stats and if they're at the right percentages

[jagged pier]

thats literally pointless, stats dont mean a hole lot anymore

basically choosing gear is this easy

ilvl>>>>>>haste >>>>>> vers >= crit > mastery

vers, crit and mastery are so close it doesnt really matter

if the piece is 5+ ilvls

equip it

unless its a ring or neck

then keep the high haste ones

the only % you want to go for is 106% haste

[delicate latch]

My haste is 13%, vers is 7% and mastery is 34% which doesn't seem right. But I am choosing gear in line with ilvl > haste > vers etc

[jagged pier]

then thats fine

[buoyant pasture]

Mastery scales more quickly than most stats, with just a few high mastery pieces it seems like it spikes high but you probably only have 80-100 more mastery than haste.

Which is basically a piece and a half

[delicate latch]

Okay that makes me feel a bit better

[solar crown]

I dont use any macros at all. Anyone mind sharing some clutch stuff that might be usefull? Not really needed but there are a lot of buttons to press :D

[jagged pier]

I only use charge and intervene, and at cursor for spear and ravager

[onyx matrix]

I honestly used shield wall and last stand in 1 macro before but I seperated them earlier.

Mouse over macros are nice tho

[fallow mortar]

are you letting the bears enrage? because if they enrage then that is your problem.

[chilly brook]

no

stop

there is no % to shoot for

ilvl>>>>haste>vers>crit>mastery

[sleek thorn]

Don't face tank bears in HoA

[wicked lantern]

#showtooltip Charge
/cast [exists, nodead, harm] Charge
/cast [@mouseover, exists, help, nodead] Intervene
/cast Hamstring

[buoyant pasture]

@chilly brook If someone wants a general benchmark to feel at ease for their own sake there isn't an issue. Multiple users told him the same advice and those percentages are reasonable to achieve following the gear advice given.

[sleek thorn]

Stun/interrupt loyal beasts from the ranger mob. And I usually pull the shitty gargon pull after echelon out of that room for more space to kite

[chilly brook]

There IS no benchmark

[jagged pier]

166% haste

[chilly brook]

You're never reaching that

[jagged pier]

i know, but it is a benchmark

[chilly brook]

Literally the only thing that matters is ilvl and then you can't get enough haste

It's that simple

But ilvl is king

There isn't a benchmark

[buoyant pasture]

It’s semantics. If I told you the benchmark for drinking water was ”enough” it doesn't hurt to say drink 8oz eight to twelve times a day.

[delicate latch]

@fallow mortar there was one pack that the bears did enrage on plus the bleed stacks, but we always focus the Houndmaster down first.

[fallow mortar]

well you already know the bears enraged are bad new at least, but the thing to do is kite the bears or spam IP

[delicate latch]

The other pack that really got me was near the bottom of the stairs before second boss, one Houndmaster and two Eviscerators. Absolutely destroyed me

IP?

[fallow mortar]

ignore pain

[fallow mortar]

you should be able to ignore that pack btw'

[delicate latch]

So prioritise IP over SB?

[jagged pier]

no

[chilly brook]

It does matter, because people start getting some idea that they need certain % of things instead of actually equipping upgrades because they'll lose this "magic benchmark"

This portion of the FAQ doesn't exist for no reason

[delicate latch]

How do people choose when to use Shield Block or Ignore Pain in a situation?

[fallow mortar]

you do both use SB to keep it up and then use IP when you have rage to spare

[prisma gorge]

i am sorry before i will tilt completely, is this portion of self heal normal?

[jagged pier]

i heal about the same if not more in dungeons to myself

[prisma gorge]

even if you go bigger pulls? i think it might vary on smaller pulls or big big pulls

[buoyant pasture]

@chilly brook I realize you said yesterday that you need to make a low-effort meme about this type of conversation so I made this for you as an olive branch.

[chilly brook]

[delicate latch]

Okay cool that is what I'm doing

[chilly brook]

Theres no way they dont address the kiting after this season

https://youtu.be/E338ot77_pI

This shit is so stupid

[lavish oracle]

I mean, to be fair, dorki is very under geared there

[fringe marten]

Finally happened boys...got a 203 mace from plague 10..I've had the SAME 184 axe, since 4th day of xpac. And the ret paladin in the group who was ACCIDENTALLY prot spec had to trade it to me..since he won it.

[lavish oracle]

Oh, I got a 210 1 hander out of my first weekly chest >.>

[onyx matrix]

Lol gz dude

[chilly brook]

Yes but it's the same concept in high keys rn and this is the kinds stuff they hammered after it started becoming prevalent in Legion

[fringe marten]

my best option for first week were 220 gloves...this week was 220 shield.

[lavish oracle]

Oh, damn

[chilly brook]

I get why hes doing it

[lavish oracle]

I'm still sitting on a 197 shield

Yeah, it is a really weird balance

[onyx matrix]

Im sitting on a 207 wep :c

[chilly brook]

I'm just saying its stupid that it's even possible because of the way things are

[jagged pier]

220 in first chest XD

[chilly brook]

And with how it's been handled in the past

[fringe marten]

The problem is that we've had 2 expansions to figure out how to cheese M+ by kiting IF need be...M+ is supposed to be tuned 'hard' the community shouldn't be pushing as high as they already are.

[chilly brook]

Dorki is a great player though

[fringe marten]

but blizz knew they'd do it..they just don't care 'that' much

[lavish oracle]

I'm not quite sure what Blizzard's design goal is for tanks

[chilly brook]

I mean...

You didnt kite in BFA

[fringe marten]

yeah you did

[chilly brook]

They're not either

[fringe marten]

apparently you forgot what early BFA was like

with DH tanks kiting all over

[lavish oracle]

Oh

well

I played warrior beginning of BFA

[chilly brook]

DH was bottom of the barrel in season 1

[lavish oracle]

I just stood there

[fringe marten]

People forgot what early BFA was because we were so strong and doing SO much damage for the last year

[lavish oracle]

the only time I was kiting was to LoS ranged mobs

[chilly brook]

I mean....I face tanked everything in season 1

[fringe marten]

JdotB's tank for a ton of high keys was a DH..and all he did was kite tank

[chilly brook]

And DH was trash in season 1

[fringe marten]

yeah..just like we're trash now? irrelevant

[chilly brook]

Blood DK was a much better pick

[lavish oracle]

by the time S2 rolled around, I literally never had to move

eeeeh, tank balance is probably closer now than it was then

[fringe marten]

My point is; if keys top out around the 30's right..

and we're half way through that curve

[chilly brook]

It's not irrelevant, DH actually needed a lot of help early BFA in the tankyness department

[fringe marten]

in...a couple weeks in??

SHadowlands is TWO YEARS of content

[lavish oracle]

Yeah, we'll see how tanks scale

[chilly brook]

DH was really more of an exception than anything else in season 1

[lavish oracle]

I have a feeling we'll all scale to be very tanky

[chilly brook]

Bear wasn't regarded well either but still could face tank

[fringe marten]

Right..but my point is, the 'tuning' of M+ so that it wrecks you this early is because we shouldn't be going as far as we are in the curve...but we are, because we CAN.

[chilly brook]

I mean I'd disagree

Since rewards are capped at 14/15

Most people are doing maybe 16-18 if they can

[fringe marten]

I get what you're saying; they do that only because they know how far players WILL go.

[chilly brook]

And only one group has done a 20

[lavish oracle]

alright, well

most people is an overstatement

[chilly brook]

And that's because they're kiting the hell out of it

[fringe marten]

But if you look at the curve of M+ as far as how high the cap will be, and how long the expansion will be. We are pushing too far into that curve, too early.

[chilly brook]

Sorry most people who actually push and are good enough to do so

[lavish oracle]

I assume Blizz wants M+ progress on a bell curve, like raid content

[chilly brook]

Its realistically 1-2 key levels above ilvl cap

For most of that top 1%

[lavish oracle]

I'd still be dubious drawing any conclusions from this early in the xpac

especially with the ilvl squish

[fringe marten]

Kiting, and workable bosses on non tyrannical weeks...allow players to go well beyond what blizz thinks we 'should' be doing.

[lavish oracle]

we're scaling very quickly

[fringe marten]

It's funny as a warrior..why do I hate kiting so much, when I do have the tools to do some of it?

It's so anti warrior

[lavish oracle]

I don't mind it, we don't have to kite for very long, usually

just like 10 seconds at a time every so often, usually

unless it's a really shitty pack that you just have to like

run from

packs like that should be retuned for sure, though

[fringe marten]

crazed ghouls are stunnable right? so you can line up a reflect on them

somethings weird about spires too; last week I could stun the 4 pack of birds, and line up a reflect on all their casts...this week, their casts NEVER line up

[lavish oracle]

Yeah, you can stun and reflect but you'll still have to kite them like immediately after that, haha

[fringe marten]

what is that?

[lavish oracle]

I stunned them earlier and managed to line up all 5 of their dots

I was doing like 25k DPS that pack, haha

[fringe marten]

so is it just their rando patrol and AI decides to randomly not cast? or are others in the group causing it to misalign?

[lavish oracle]

I'm not sure, it definitely didn't work the last time I tried it

[fringe marten]

I was also telling the group not to interupt or stun..so I could line up the reflect; these have been random groups with no discord. So maybe that is it.

[lavish oracle]

maybe they're on different timers on purpose?

just have to CC them longer?

[fringe marten]

maybe open with a intim shout..to try and delay them a little...then wait until longer in the first couple cast bars to see if the others start? I dunno

[lavish oracle]

I'll have to test it next time I'm in there

I actually might have opened with intimidating shout, now that I think about it to help with ghosts from the last pack

[fringe marten]

I like the ghosts affix, and dislike it...I think it's overly punishing for melee and the mobs get long range swings off a bit too often.

[lavish oracle]

Yeah, it's really rough for melee

[fringe marten]

it's a less severe comparison with the cyclones from last week..sure you 'CAN" dodge them all , but the best players in the world are still getting hit by them constantly.

[lavish oracle]

I feel like they want more affixes melee have to worry about but like spiteful and storming seem way worse than something like volcanic

[fringe marten]

Realistically as a tank you aren't dodging all the cyclones, realistically as a melee you aren't going to be prepared for every ghost spawn, stay out of range..avoid everything..while tunneling damage AND interrupting/avoidoing mechanics. just..stop blizzard

It's our own fault you know that? It's part of this exact discussion about people pushing too far too early

The harder affixes are a natural progression of the game vs us as a playerbase.

You get weak auras, dbm..addons..etc...you start picking the game apart, it's no longer challenging..they have to add tons of mechanics/speed things up in raid. etc.

[chilly brook]

The cyclones are so bad

[lavish oracle]

I don't really get it from a design standpoint either

like, I get it in raid

[chilly brook]

Straight unfair on some bosses tbh

[lavish oracle]

but you've designed a piece of content that scales infinitely

the challenge will come

[fringe marten]

We've been pushing further, faster in keys every expansion with the same tools, same practice, same knowledge... so the "sidestep a volcano every 30 seconds" wasn't TOUGH enough for us any more..so they added more difficult affixes.

[chilly brook]

It was never tough though

[fringe marten]

Right azathoth; that's how I feel about it..the point is 'how far can I push'

Not.."how much bullshit can you stack on me to make the game unplayable chaos'

[chilly brook]

Volcanic that is

[lavish oracle]

Yeah, I don't think it was ever designed to be challenging

the goal of affixes should be to just slow us down

[fringe marten]

Yeah but it was never designed to be; the affixes were there to add some spice to the increasing challenge of the mobs, as the key progressed.

[lavish oracle]

not to reliably kill us

[fringe marten]

And then..we kept shitting on their content, pushing further faster.

[chilly brook]

Well imo the goal of affixes should be to implement different ways that you have to approach the content

Prideful is great for that

[fringe marten]

So they said "oh...you know those two affixes that make it really hard, lets have those EVERY WEEK...Fortified, Tyrannical"

[chilly brook]

So was the last seasonal affix

[lavish oracle]

Sure, I agree, seasonal affixes should shake up the way you approach the dungeons entirely

[chilly brook]

I'd like to see more interesting affixes and less straight punishment ones

Like grievous doesn't change how you do anything

[fringe marten]

To their credit the seasonal affix has..? I think for the most part usually been managable and pretty cool.

[chilly brook]

It just puts a higher throughput requirement

[lavish oracle]

Affixes 4 and 7 seem to be designed to be road bumps more than anything else

[chilly brook]

Same with fort

[fringe marten]

Right but grievous just says "oh is your healer a strong player, or prepared for burst throughput on demand/etc"

You really see grievous weeks seperate a lot of healers out, people you thought were solid can't keep up or compete.

[lavish oracle]

Eh, grievous does change where I use my phial, sometimes

[chilly brook]

Their seasonal affixes outside of g'hunis and the season 3 one have been great

[fallow mortar]

grievous is when I finally use mage food

[lavish oracle]

Yeah, that too

[chilly brook]

Would love to see more interesting designs like those replace what's essentially punishments

[fringe marten]

But yeah; their 'new' shit.. the cyclones are insane trash. The ghosts are ok but they need to not insta swing at melee after popping up.

[lavish oracle]

I mean, you could say Bolstering changes the way you approach dungeons but in the slowest, clunkiest possible way

I don't want more affixes like that

What's the new one?

[fringe marten]

combined with grievous, it can put insane strain on the healer in something like plaguefall where we're already dotted up

[lavish oracle]

Inspiring?

I like inspiring in principle

[fringe marten]

inspiring is the same shit that the seasonal affix from azhara brought

a mob in a pack that makes you CC..simple as that

[lavish oracle]

the tides one, yeah

again, I like it in principle

we'll see how it ends up playing

like it's interesting in the way that g'huunies were

ideally you want to CC them and pull them together if you can

which is kinda neat

[fringe marten]

and fort/tyran on weekly cycle is fucking trash. Regardless of people being 'used' to it or not. it's lazy shit that did nothing but jack up the HP of mobs, and the damage intake on the tank mostly...every week.

[lavish oracle]

no idea if it actually works that way in practice, though

[chilly brook]

Fort and tyrannical serve no purpose imo

[fringe marten]

Again; if you're pushing the key up..you will progress the mobs to having more hp, and damage.

[chilly brook]

Its just further scaling on something that already scales and creates an inconsistent experience every week

[lavish oracle]

Nah, I disagree, fort/tyrannical do actually fundamentally change the way you look at the dungeons

[fringe marten]

It's consistent, but all it does it push how far you go downward by having it scale faster.

[lavish oracle]

especially where you pop major CDs or what you might want Prideful for

[chilly brook]

Its not consistent because keys that were doable at several levels higher become completely infeasible because it's now tyrannical

[fringe marten]

You see the overall design paradigm here right? They've kept trying to slow down how far/fast people push up keys so they can keep the loot 'decent'.

[chilly brook]

Just simply because of tuning being so insane

[lavish oracle]

Tyrannical should probably be retuned, they have tried, a bit

[chilly brook]

Tyranical just doesnt work tbhb

And it halves any real pushing time

[lavish oracle]

I don't know that its goal is to necessarily be like, comparable to fortified

[chilly brook]

Because half of the season is Tyranical

[lavish oracle]

Sure, again, I don't think Blizzard is designing around the top end in that scenario, though

[chilly brook]

It doesnt only affect the top end

[lavish oracle]

there's a certain level of M+ player that will swear up and down that Tyrannical is easier

[chilly brook]

Your weekly 15 is so much more ass on tyranical than fort

Hell even just 10s rn on tyranical....

[lavish oracle]

Eeeh, sure, maybe at the moment

[chilly brook]

Gear wont change it much

[lavish oracle]

I think their goal is to just change the way the dungeons are played

not make them equal difficulty

[chilly brook]

15 tyranical yazma in 8.3 still caused huge issues

[digital nova]

10 plaguefall sucked shit but we rekt a 10 TOP pretty easily

[lavish oracle]

first boss of Plaguefall was problematic pre-nerf if you didn't have CC for the oozes, this is true

[chilly brook]

This would be fine, IF it wasn't orders of magnitude of difference just because they threw in a boss buff every other week

Leading to half your season feeling like it's not even worth playing

[lavish oracle]

Right, sure, I agree tyrannical is overtuned

I don't think they should approach retuning it with the goal of making it even to fort, though

[chilly brook]

I'm fine with some weeks being somewhat harder than the last

[lavish oracle]

One thing that's always been sorta problematic on tyrannical is bosses with add phases, and they did attempt to address that by removing the health scaling on adds for tyrannical

[chilly brook]

But ideally key affixes shouldn't have wide variances in levels you're able to do week to week and more importantly is they SHOULDN'T MAKE YOU WANT TO JUST FORGET THE GAME FOR A WEEK

[lavish oracle]

but they're still an issue because the main boss having extra health means you get more add phases no matter what so what's supposed to be a 40% buff to boss health (or whatever the number is, I can't remember off the top of my head) ends up being significantly more because you also have to deal with adds sometimes 2 or 3 times as much as you would on fort

And now they have bosses like Hakkar that have an add/shield phase

scales even worse with tyrannical

[grizzled skiff]

Tyrannical design is lazy af. I'd love if they added mechanics or secret 30% phases to bosses. Instead they just don't care about it and choose to be uninspired and annoying.

[lavish oracle]

That would be a lot of development hours, to be fair

and Blizzard has proven that they don't really give a fuck about M+

[grizzled skiff]

They get a lot of money, to be fair.

And it's arguably the most played content.

[lavish oracle]

and they still don't pay their employees a fair wage or let them work reasonable hours, so you can be sure that money isn't going to development, lol

[grizzled skiff]

I'm having a hard time finding an excuse for that.

[digital nova]

one thing about blizzard is they super don't give a fuck about player sentiment unless they themselves agree somethings broke, they're too data driven for community tuning via strongly worded complaints

[grizzled skiff]

Which is an excuse for what exactly? 😅 Blizzard being scummy and uncaring doesn't change the fact that they waste potential, or justify it.

[lavish oracle]

Like, I'm just saying that Blizzard as a corporate entity that makes money and Blizzard as in the WoW development team are separate entities

[grizzled skiff]

It's exactly what I'm criticising. There's no if or but here.

[lavish oracle]

So the WoW dev team has to prioritize development time, designing Phase 3 mechanics for every dungeon boss would be a big time sink in an expansion that's already so bloated with content

and like, don't get me wrong, all the content is fucking awesome so far

[grizzled skiff]

It's the outcome thats lacking, so there's no reason to justify it by mentioning shortcomings behind the curtain.

[digital nova]

one man's lazy design is another man's elegant solution to a problem

[grizzled skiff]

Yeah but ppl forget the insane amount of money they get.

They could hire 5 development teams to make an entirely new game and still run a profit.

[lavish oracle]

Yeah, Blizzard as a corporation is scum

I was kinda hoping shadowlands would be delayed due to dev strikes, tbh, haha

[grizzled skiff]

I hate that money and time argument with a passion in regards to blizzard. We pay WAYY too much for what we get. And some ppl still justify lazy design.

[grizzled skiff]

Yeah. That would have been sick.

I love the game to death, and that's what money sharks abuse.

[lofty widget]

are there any talent choice changes if i wanna run wall over TGV?

[chilly brook]

Well in all honesty they could literally just get affix ideas from interns and they'd likely be better than a lot of the ones they have

Or even just rip diablo off

[chilly brook]

Like none

[kindred warren]

There’s lazy design and then there’s predatory designs. I don’t enjoy the latter.

[chilly brook]

You might run AM over bolster in less challenging content

[lavish oracle]

pls no arcane in wow

[chilly brook]

That's about it

[lofty widget]

aight ty

[kindred warren]

Making loot more scarce was one of the most annoying changes

[digital nova]

honestly, I feel like they're intentionally designed to be obnoxious as fuck

mythic affix's that is

[kindred warren]

Up to artificer this week and all I got was a fucking 32 slot bag

[chilly brook]

Definitely feel like the gearing changes aren't more than an annoyance

Jury is still out on whether it'll end up a positive thing

[kindred warren]

It’s rng cause some lucky bastard could get bis in 2 resets

[digital nova]

i'd bet money the gear changes were to just boost enagement

[lavish oracle]

It's possible the gearing changes are meant to stretch the time it takes us to outgear content

[digital nova]

^

[chilly brook]

It definitely is

[kindred warren]

It seems everything they did was to stretch playtime as much as possible, seems greedy af

[chilly brook]

But stuff like that takes time to determine whether its actually good or not for the health of the game

[lavish oracle]

Can't tell if it was meant to boost player engagement or give more development time between patches

[digital nova]

honestly, I like the pace of gear as it is

[kindred warren]

Especially they got rid of reroll tokens

[lavish oracle]

It kinda does, both, I guess

[chilly brook]

I didnt see the point in getting rid of reroll tokens

What I will say

Is that getting conduits off a boss feels like shit

[digital nova]

facts

[lavish oracle]

Yeah, Relics definitely felt better

[kindred warren]

They added stupid vault which means you have to wait till end of the week

[chilly brook]

Even if it's a different loot table

Still feels like shit

Oh hey a pur...

[digital nova]

I'll take the vault over the blind RNG box

[chilly brook]

Fuck

[lavish oracle]

The vault is the best gearing change they made, for sure

[chilly brook]

Lemme set to prot for a shield

[digital nova]

but that's a shit sandwich vs a soggy shit sandwich you know?

[chilly brook]

Oh fuck ye...fuck me another conduit

[lavish oracle]

The biggest change I'd like to see is a gear currency like Conquest for M+

[kindred warren]

At least you guys are getting conduits I get my token 35 anima

[chilly brook]

100%

[digital nova]

i was actually hyped to get my spear conduit drop

[chilly brook]

I said it all of BFA

[lavish oracle]

you could even cap it like conquest if you wanted to moderate our advancement

[chilly brook]

What m+ needs is something else besides just gear

[digital nova]

but that's been it, when i get an arms conduit I want to eat buckshot

[chilly brook]

Some more cosmetics and cool stuff each season would go a long way

[kindred warren]

They did it once in MoP

[chilly brook]

'Member challenge mode armor and weapons?

[kindred warren]

With the class ton

[digital nova]

some more class sets ala MOP would rule

[kindred warren]

Tmog

[chilly brook]

It would go a long way adding stuff like that every season

[lavish oracle]

I think it's something they said they wanted to do in the lead up to Shadowlands? I don't know what their plans were as far as when something like that would end up in-game, though

[chilly brook]

And they can do it

Fucking fortnite does

[kindred warren]

Fortnite also generates 3x the revenue

[chilly brook]

It doesnt need to be the same level

But uhhh even pubg does it

And basically every multiplayer game now

Hell

They could even make it not m+ specific

Just give give you essentially battle pass tires that you could level through in several different types of content

Raid, m+, pvp doesnt matter

Do more keys, kill more bosses, kill more players get cool stuff for playing said patch

Cosmetics armor wise have been lacking pretty hard the last xpac

Although I suppose I just expect too much

But like even Destiny does this

[slate vessel]

What leggo should I craft?

[digital nova]

what content are you doing primarily?

[slate vessel]

OS tank, so right now I'm just running Signet

M+ for Prot

I raid Arms

[digital nova]

Tlord

[slate vessel]

What slot? And I assume Haste/Vers?

[digital nova]

boots, and yes

[slate vessel]

Good, I was right on that guess

[slate vessel]

How would you buff prot?

[jagged pier]

shorten the cd on SB by a few seconds

[lavish oracle]

Probably just a slight single target damage buff, otherwise, I think we're fine as far as current content is concerned

Not that tank damage matters much

[slate vessel]

I feel super squishy tbh

[jagged pier]

then your likely to be doing somthing wrong

[digital nova]

it gets better with haste

[strong forum]

I feel omega tanky as long as I have block

The other issues aren't with the class

They're down to dungeon Design

And overtuned abilities

[lavish oracle]

Ideal world, I want AM baseline but also we would be busted as far as the current iteration of tanks is concerned

[strong forum]

Current iteration of tanks is "how weak can we make tanks without breaking them"

[frail wyvern]

Give heroic leap 2 charges, that would help kite in current dungeons

[lavish oracle]

Ye, pretty much

[strong forum]

[jagged pier]

I mean you have intervene as well

[lavish oracle]

Oh, yeah, don't take leaped, haha

[digital nova]

wet paper comes from three things: group not kicking, you not rolling block charges properly, not enough IP use/too much revenge

[frail wyvern]

Intervene doesn't do much in a full melee group 😂

[jagged pier]

mobs cant do damage if they are dead

press revenge

[lavish oracle]

We have a lot of kiting tools between heroic leap, shockwave, spear, and intervene

[frail wyvern]

Spear is covenant based

[lavish oracle]

Yes

[frail wyvern]

I'm not Kyrian 😂

[lavish oracle]

Bummer

Get your group to slow mobs

[slate vessel]

I still feel like no matter what I do I'm made of paper mache compared to other tanks

[lavish oracle]

Then you're doing something wrong or you have a skewed perception of other tanks

[slate vessel]

I never had an issue as prot in Legion but then it felt iffy in BFA

then I tried BM and it felt like everything was suddenly managable

[lavish oracle]

We were gods in BFA

[frail wyvern]

Bfa prot was ez mode, happy clappy

I think tanking in general has been made more difficult, its not just a warrior thing

[lavish oracle]

Way I hear it, monks are getting clapped pretty hard at the moment too

[jagged pier]

if you play it wrong yer

[digital nova]

Everyone is getting clapped tanks are pretty even when face tanking

[slate vessel]

Stagger always felt like managing just made sense

[lavish oracle]

The only really tank tanks right now is bear

[frail wyvern]

Warriors problem is we are top tier against physical but bottom tier against magic, other tanks are in the middle for both so seem more steady overall

[slate vessel]

I feel like they overnerfed IP too much

[lavish oracle]

Monk is pretty bad against magic, too

Actually, with celestial brew now, I don't know how true that is anymore, they're like last on my list of tanks to play

[digital nova]

getting close to 200 ilvl, starting to feel proper tanky, in 18x gear it was hit or miss, SB down you get chunked pretty good

[frail wyvern]

My experience too, I'm 202 now and its much smoother

Would like better conduit choices though, maybe that's where they will make changes at some point

[lavish oracle]

I actually think our conduits are fine

[digital nova]

i'd like to see that deep wounds heal conduit get a buff

[slate vessel]

I just wish conduits swapped with specs

since I main Arms

but if I ever for any reason want to do M+ I have to tank

[lavish oracle]

Oh, yeah, fueled by violence is undertuned as hell, actually

[frail wyvern]

Conduit swapping will be an issue once we have 4 unlocked in our soulbinds for sure

[jagged pier]

i mean i use pelagos or tank and kelia for arms

[digital nova]

why? we had an arms warrior in our +10 top

[lavish oracle]

But Stalwart Guardian and Unnerving Focus are both reasonably strong

At least with the Wall

[slate vessel]

Because my guild is all little cliques and I'm not part of any of them

so I have to pug M+

[digital nova]

rough guild

[frail wyvern]

Feeling like an outsider in your guild sucks, been there before

[digital nova]

same

[slate vessel]

The guy who always invted me to stuff was the old GM and there was some drama and everyone ditched him and made a new guild

so now it's the puglife

[frail wyvern]

I honestly play the game to do the group content with friends, I would ditch that guild to find somewhere more welcoming 😂

[slate vessel]

That's why I raided with the guild through all of BFA because I liked the people

even though I could have left for a much better guild with my parses and experience if I wanted to

[frail wyvern]

We were a CE guild and stopped raiding mid-BFA, came back for SL and taking it casual. I enjoy high end progress but not going to lie, I am really enjoying taking it easy and clearing normal and progressing through HC this time around with a group of 12-15 each raid

[slate vessel]

I took a break midway through Mythic Nyalotha because I was bored and stuck as a healer

like a sixish month break

I'm fine as a healer but it just isn't as inspiring as a tank or DPS

[frail wyvern]

I was always fury until this exp, enjoying the new challenge of prot being my main spec

Still sad how bad fury is though

[digital nova]

fuckin a, I had a pro wrestler mog with brass knuckles set up for fury and then it did piss for damage

[slate vessel]

I actually reroll off of warrior if I have to play fury

I hate fury

I've always been an Arms main

since cataclysm

[frail wyvern]

Button mashing at its finest is fury. It still feels fine to play, just dmg output sucks

[slate vessel]

Titan grip just feels uly

ugly*

[digital nova]

my wrist hates fury, and the devastate button

[frail wyvern]

Lol devastator talent 100%

[digital nova]

all day erry day

[frail wyvern]

Just to protect from RSI

[digital nova]

i hate GCD locked rotations in general. just too much for my old man hands

[slate vessel]

Actually why I stopped playing fury in Nighthold

My early onset arthritis in my fingers couldn't handle it

Swapped to frost mage for mythic Nighthold

[frail wyvern]

I got my first mmo mouse for Xmas, honestly its like stepping into the light after years without one

[digital nova]

might consider getting one, I play enough mmos to warrant the purchase

though only FFXIV and wow would be getting a lot of use with it

[frail wyvern]

I'm still getting used to it but my left hand is no longer doing a jive

[digital nova]

free up some awkward shift/ctrl/alt keybinds

[frail wyvern]

100%, I had so many of those

[muted pendant]

So now u have to be a Twitch Subscriber or Patreon to make use of MDT?

Guys, dont update MDT

with the latest version Noggie deleted everything. You will have to subscribe to his Twitch or become a Warforged Patron

[sweet kayak]

Whats the best pre-pot potion to use before AOE pack, and whats the best one to use before boss? 🙂

[digital nova]

strength pot for both

[sweet kayak]

ok

[delicate latch]

What are everyone's thoughts on legendaries - The Wall or Thunderlord? I have both and I both raid and do M+

[dense pivot]

people use both in m+

some like the wall, some thunderlord

[onyx matrix]

Wall! Wall! Wall!

[obtuse scaffold]

@Nipple twister#9004 what overall talent build you use with the wall? If I wanted to focus on one tank leggo here out. Got r2 tl and r1 wall. But I wouldn't mind focusing on one to craft an arms one.

Also stalwart conduit i assume?

[onyx matrix]

Well it totally depends on if I play in pvp or pve. Id go with the wall honestly since it works in both pvp and pve (yes I play prot in pvp since I enjoy the playstyle to be an annoying defender). Yea stalwart is great with the wall

[signal plover]

Wall is better to focus if you only want to do one prot leggo imo

[onyx matrix]

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/eu/magtheridon/santaclaús heres my talent build atm @obtuse scaffold

+1

[signal plover]

UF -1

Ravager is better in m+ and itf is better in raid

[onyx matrix]

Thats not even my m+ talents that im showing atm😂

[obtuse scaffold]

Okay thats what I'm using except I use ravager instead of uf.

Ty! I was testing dragon roar since I wasn't spamming demo without TL as often. Just for aoe threat. Threat vs survival though. I'm probably switching back.

[signal plover]

DR has fallen off ever since they soft capped it. Basically dead talent now

[obtuse scaffold]

Yeah I went venthry from fae... cuz I just like it better. (I know I know) and was missing ravager and aoe fae ability combo. Lol

Like it better for arms. Obviously not prot. Lol

And my hunter was fae and doing the story quests twice was killing me

[signal plover]

#shrug, covenants are mostly personal choice atm so of you have a preference one way or another it's fine.

[obtuse scaffold]

I dig the vibe for warrior. Edgelord bois

[signal plover]

Kyrian is very strong all around for warr as well

[obtuse scaffold]

I know. Probably best for prot. I just can't vibe with their lore. I can't help it. Lol

When I get around to pally ill got kyrian. Hunter and warrior taking all my non work/parenting time lol

[signal plover]

It's your character after all

[obtuse scaffold]

Yeah and more dps spots in my guild for raid. But pugging m+ its nice to be tanky.

[onyx matrix]

Hey I switched from kyrian to necro since I dont give a single poopiepants about the meta

Tanked a m+7 earlier without a problem too 🤷‍♂️

[obtuse scaffold]

Hell yeah

[onyx matrix]

So everything is possible

[obtuse scaffold]

Honestly lorewise they the coolest for warrior. The soldiers of the shadowlands.

Imo

[onyx matrix]

• I just feel way more warrior if I am with the necros 😂

Yeap

Alongside with the banner etc

Kyrian just screams paladin

[obtuse scaffold]

Yeah I agree. Or priest

My warrior has been nelf since vanilla. So fae is great for him. Mainly just doing everything twice on my hunter and him was boring.

And fae is bis lore and meta for all 3 hunter specs

[woven kiln]

don't download the update to MDT. It's paywalled. Stay on the current version until someone releases a new, free version.

[onyx matrix]

Haha yeap! Lol nice, haha understandable xD we will prob get covenant tuning soon. Lol 😂

[astral crystal]

there's already free cloned versions

and you can just edit the LUA to add the variables he removed, the curseforge page has the info on how to do it lol

fucking noggie crybaby

[woven kiln]

manbaby dungeon tools, or something on github

[obtuse scaffold]

Amazing name. Lol

[onyx matrix]

Lol

[cinder nova]

Finally timed my first +10 this xpack

Lucked out and got a guild group missing their tank. M+ feels so good when you got a group that has its head on straight.

All of them were kicking, stunning, and the healer was mongo as all hell.

[obtuse scaffold]

Yeah pugging is rough. So many people just pew pew and blame tanks and healers

[cinder nova]

Facts.

[obtuse scaffold]

I hate io.... I really hate it. Cuz I just don't play enough... but man I understand why it exists lol

[cinder nova]

I'll be the first to say io isn't a perfect metric. I've seen lots of people who are 700 - 800 that for some reason can't keep their shit together.

But it's generally pretty on point.

[obtuse scaffold]

Yeah I just dont play enough to get that beefy score. And the practice either... which I guess proves io is correct lol

[cinder nova]

Yeah. This expansion has a lot of little hidden mechanics and toys to fuck around with that take a bit of learning to toss into the route and mix.

But I'll say that M+ feels a lot better now than it did in BFA.

[onyx matrix]

Everything is better than bfa

[woven kiln]

IO is great, but it's lead to so much toxicity. Take the 1000-1200 bracket for pugging at the moment. Every run I have (that's a pug) ends in one of two ways. Either we time it, and 1-2 people whisper me asking to add on Btag, or someone makes a minor mistake, which is a snowball that leads to the group disbanding, where the same 1-2 people whisper the tank saying 'uninstall and fucking kill yourself'. This bracket is full of score chasers, average wannabes who think they're professional gamers, as a result can't recover from group mistakes and adapt as a team. So, high io scores at the moment seem to mostly point to people that can only cope with 100% perfect runs and fail at any pressure, who spam keys until they get a new timed one.

[obtuse scaffold]

Well put man.

[valid zodiac]

So I've tried Bolster instead of AM and it definitely feels good but then on the other hand I kinda miss faster Avatar pop

[onyx matrix]

Yea true that dude, a russian guy left after he died on a +7 earlier today

And he died 1 time

😂😂😂😂🤷‍♂️

[obtuse scaffold]

In a ToP +5 yesterday . Healer got hit by winds... and it dc'd him lolol

[onyx matrix]

Hahaha

[torpid granite]

So I have a weird question for y’all

[onyx matrix]

Hahaha man, top is a noob check with the tornadoes

Winds *

Ask us

[woven kiln]

idk man with DK slappyhands and a shit tone of other visuals sometimes it's impossible to see

I crank my stuff down to minimum for that place

[onyx matrix]

Oof

[torpid granite]

My little one wants to play a tank. I’ve tried to help him pick what he wants to do but he “wants to play tank with dad and wants the most health” so what tank is currently pushing the most hp. I was imagining DK or Bear

[woven kiln]

that's adorable

bear tank

[torpid granite]

That’s what I was thinking.

[obtuse scaffold]

🐻 ftw. Adorable

[cerulean dock]

I'm reading the material on legendary choice but if i'm pretty much exclusively going to m+ does my priority move away from the wall? like, does thunder being meh in ST mean much?

[onyx matrix]

Its more of a preference

[cerulean dock]

uhmm i see

feels difficult

[night wadi]

is there a 4% Brutal Vitality conduit and 6% one?

or 4% to be upgrded

[onyx matrix]

I prefer the wall tho

[night wadi]

and what ilvl should i be comfortable tanking Mythic+0

[onyx matrix]

165

[night wadi]

oh thank you

so last question brutality vitality says 6% on wowhead

but i got a 4% one. there are diff numbered ones?

[sweet summit]

Conduits have different levels

Just like gear

[night wadi]

thank you

[strong forum]

There are several ranks of conduits. Highest ilvl of the conduit being 226

[steep wraith]

Anyone know how to get 226 conduits from m+

[onyx matrix]

No clue

[torn mirage]

Guys, whatever you do, don't intervene on your off tank on Sludgefist

[cinder pasture]

I did that last week...Added some spicyness to the run

[steel mauve]

typically thunderlords for m+, the wall most likely for extremely high keys where you will get better use out of shield wall, but it comes down to a need for shield wall/using it, if you dont need it and use it less often then the wall devalues greatly, and is still devalued by using shield wall but still not actually NEEDING it, where as you always get full use out of demo shout because you use it on cd the entire dungeon

[signal plover]

rage gain from wall arguably more useful than SW effect

[cerulean dock]

yeahhh makes sense

[signal plover]

which makes it solid even on fortified weeks

[cerulean dock]

would be aiming to get to high keys asap so

[strong forum]

You don't

[steel mauve]

thats still only half the legendary use, plus you still gain a lot more rage from thunderlords as well

[signal plover]

once I have both at r4 ill prolly alternate depending on affixes/dungeon but while im raiding wall is prio for ranks so ill use it at r3 over a r1 tl

both r solid in any pve content provided you understand how to use em

[steel mauve]

i mean the wall obviously wins in raid, but hes talking mainly m+ content

[signal plover]

i'd run wall any tyrannical week atm

[steel mauve]

once you start needing shield wall ijn m+ regularly, it will probably be more useful than thunderlords

[signal plover]

i mean u def need SW regularly above 10+ atm

[steel mauve]

ya i just dont know what hes running, typically the ones asking those questions dont truly understand the difference and are running mid to low keys just wanting a quick answer

[signal plover]

fair

[sacred roost]

Anyone happen to have a weakaura that uses the like () things to right and left of your character for shield block and ignore pain?

not sure if I'm explaining that well

[cinder nova]

Do you mean convex bars that deplete with duration?

There's a whole addon for that.

[sacred roost]

Think so?

Is there?

[sweet summit]

You can very easily make a wa like that youself, even with limited knowledge

Id check out #ui-weakauras-addons dunno

[steady spruce]

Do you guys also have this problem in DoS where you pull some of the birds before the Merchant and for some reason it pulls the entire room and some are bugged as you can't hit them? We also failed a +10 cause when we take the fly after merchant it pulled all the mobs in the ardenwald zone

[sacred roost]

they cast a spell, the non elites

it pulls all of em if it's not interrupted

there traps

wwthey are traps, rather

[steady spruce]

so better not to touch them at all i guess

cause they are on nenuphars that made them evade too

[sacred roost]

that or interrupt em.

wonder if they'll buff fury or prot

[steady spruce]

i hope they make shield block cost less rage

i find it hard to correctly get agro AND mitigation at the start of a pull

[sacred roost]

I'd like to see some more damage, honestly

[civic rover]

bro you can tank mythic0 at like 145 ilvl and be fine

[sacred roost]

@civic rover depends on your healer. 🙂

I had to heal an undergeared tank through a plaguefall earlier this expansion, DK, it was AWFUL.

he was in blues and greens, didn't look till like halfway through

[night wadi]

hahaha whaaat. People are all looking for 171+ tanks

for +0

[sacred roost]

171 isn't hard to get

[civic rover]

i did all m0s at like 145 ilvl

just dont pull like a monkey and kite when needed

[lusty marsh]

Is it bad form to tank super aggresively in heroic queues?

[fading basin]

I mean in heroics you’re still less likely to have a group that know to interrupt so it might be worse off for you if you do

[civic rover]

yeah but heroics also dont do any damage

[lusty marsh]

no I mean I just had 3 members leave

I was pulling the world

I can solo heroic mists at this point

I guess the real question is, does it kill enjoyment if your tank is running ahead and doing most of the work

[steel mauve]

we were doing m0's at sub 140 at the start, i started around 144 myself

[sick sentinel]

for reference im 188 or so ilvl and we just steam roll m0

[earnest fox]

M0 are jokes

Me and my guild started first week in 140s, but 150s u shud be fine

[sick sentinel]

i am doing m0 world tours so i can get as much good 184 gear before being big papa pumper in 10 and + keys

trinkets what i need mostly

[lusty marsh]

I suggest getting a blood splattered scale

I will be sad when I have to replace it

[open monolith]

We should get a definitive pin about wall vs TL

that says:
Both are good. They are different play styles and are good at different things. Just make one, IDK

so we can just every time it comes up

[sick sentinel]

what about decanter? is that good for us? i feel like it should be good

[lusty marsh]

decanter felt good when I was using it.

[sick sentinel]

no wonder i was getting shit trinkets though, set it to current spec loot and the tank ones all seem to be trash

[lusty marsh]

I'd only set it to tank for DoS

[open monolith]

pretty sure anima field emitter drops for prot

in Spires

[lusty marsh]

of the three trinkets in DoS Only scale is worth getting imo, maybe quantum for the niche execute in pvp

[sick sentinel]

well, might be feels bads if i do a +7 or wahtever and i get a 2h sword and my dude is literal named tankian cuz its all i know now haha

[open monolith]

set to fury

they get 1 handers.

[lusty marsh]

Being able to flex dps isn't a terrible thing

[sick sentinel]

oh yeah? i forgot they can do 1h fury again

[lusty marsh]

Also getting the ilvl so you can trade to guildies

[sick sentinel]

like i always say, if you can kill the boss fast enough, he won't have time to kill your team back

or (hopefully) a much lesser chance of doing so

[brazen yarrow]

what do you guys think about stances?

[open monolith]

boring. unnecessary. unwieldy.

[sweet summit]

Outdated

[open monolith]

rightfully pruned

[woven kiln]

anything that you bake into a macro and forget about for the whole xpac should be removed

[open monolith]

don't talk to about my racial like that

[woven kiln]

non-tauren scum

[open monolith]

Lady trolls are prettier, sorry

[steady spruce]

Stance dancing was fun in classic cause it made the gameplay more interesting but would be an overcomplicated and useless addition for retail

[open monolith]

it was only "fun" in classic because you pressed like 3 buttons in classic otherwise

[steady spruce]

yes

exactly

[open monolith]

I really only have 2 strong memories from vanilla

tanking that westfall dungeon for the first time and asking people to wait for sunder stacks

and farming whelps in blasted lands for hours upon hours to sell the vendor trash they drop for 1st mount money (hoping to get a pet drop to sell on the AH)

[shy osprey]

it was a different time back then

[open monolith]

full bags of whelp trash was 11 silver.

[steady spruce]

Vanilla=/= classic at all

[lusty marsh]

vanilla can't exist again

[shy osprey]

yeah, vanilla is vanilla, classic is classic. imo. the meta is completely different

[steady spruce]

(i don't mean to undermine you saying that)

[open monolith]

I have not touched classic at all because I played Vanilla. I have no need to go back to it.

[shy osprey]

and for warrior the client is very different too

i never completed naxx in vanilla. was 9/15 or something like that

so was nice to complete it in classic

[open monolith]

i never even got to max level in vanilla

i think i got like.. a 42 dwarf hunter

then when TBC came out i rerolled Horde with my buddy and my first max level toon was a blood elf paladin

I was too busy playing the strictly superior mmo, EQ2

[shy osprey]

i would say that this statement means nothing

[open monolith]

okay.

I would say that quoting that statement and commenting on it is just as meaningless.

So I guess we're even.

[undone jacinth]

it’s definitely sad what classic became for someone who played vanilla

[open monolith]

Vanilla just existed at a special time on the internet before heavy datamining / minmaxing / theorycrafting etc.

[undone jacinth]

indeed

[open monolith]

and like, it was pretty "revolutionary" at the time. A more approachable everquest.

[undone jacinth]

and the change to player mindset that caused

[shy osprey]

i would say the opposite dolphin

was nice to see what could have been done if ppl had a clue

[open monolith]

Nah. The awkwardness of vanilla is what made it special to most people

[shy osprey]

obv there is no patch progression

[undone jacinth]

clearing all content in an hour and grinding pvp for 22 hours a day

not nice in my world

[open monolith]

Just like you'll never recapture the feelings of teenage lust and infatuation, you'll never recapture the feeling of not knowing anything in vanilla

[undone jacinth]

but each to his own

[shy osprey]

to me the gold buying was the thing that made classic less fun. hard to compete when you dont want to buy gold

[steel mauve]

I was surprised to see the 17th expansion came out, i was like thats a ton of expacs lol

[open monolith]

holy shit are there that many lol?

I don't even remember the name of the last one I played... I feel like it had shadow in the name (ironically enough)

yep. The Shadow Odyssey

[steel mauve]

Ya i had a facebook add thing that was like "the 17th expansion just launched, come play now" and i was like wtf

[open monolith]

lol. I have such fond memories of that game

that game had really neat class design. I miss it sometimes.

I would kill for an EQ3

[steel mauve]

Never played, i had dial up when i first got wow in vanilla, couldnt play much lol

[open monolith]

24 classes, 15 races.

Everything had a cast time. Everything had a cooldown. lots of buttons to press. It is a VERY dated and not fun to play game now.

but loved it at the time

[undone jacinth]

Star Wars Galaxies was the one with most potential by far

shame what they did to it

[open monolith]

never played it, but am familiar with the history of the game

[undone jacinth]

even as a lil kid it was obvious how unique the game was

[steel mauve]

Wasnt galaxies the rts?

[open monolith]

no

[split wyvern]

Everquest now looked so cool

[undone jacinth]

old mmo

[steel mauve]

I played swtor, im so upset at the outcome of it, it was such a great game until end game, then it was all fucked

[split wyvern]

I was looking forward to world of darkness mmo before it was scrapped

[undone jacinth]

they had this system at one point where if u had max characters of every profession/class your account was randomly selected periodically to unlock a Jedi Padawan

[open monolith]

SWTOR was fun for the main class campaigns.

the agent campaign was great

[steel mauve]

Gear sucked, upgrades made no difference and it felt like a bethesda game with all the bugs that never got fixed

And the highest difficulty at launch didnt drop better gear, it was just for "bragging rights"

[lusty marsh]

Playing eq2 instead of p99 shakes head

[tepid nest]

galaxies was fucking sick, there's plenty of pservers out there nowadays if anyone wants a nostalgia trip

pre-cu that is

[lusty marsh]

I just want a world to exist where UO is big again.

[fathom ice]

I know using signet of the tormented Kings as prot goes against what the bible says but since I got it for my main spec do you thing it is possie to make it work in m+?

I know bladestorm is not ideal while tanking but I can just always cancel it

[hallow phoenix]

Plenty of dps mains tank keys with signet

Our leggos are not make-or-break

[steel mauve]

legos wont be the reason you fail a key, they just make em easier when you have the right ones, one of the top rated m+ prot wars has signet i believe

you can still cast defensives and block while bladestorming, just cant use offensive abilities

[bronze forge]

am i right for thunderlord stats vers haste?

for legendary

[hallow phoenix]

That's fine

Usually what most people go

[bronze forge]

is thunderlord even that good

4.5 seconds decrease on shout?

the wall increases rage and shield wall but uncapped

every 40 seconds instead of 45 is it really worth it :/ seems underwhelming

[signal plover]

...

it's 1.5s per mob per cast of thunderclap

and that is capped at 4.5 (3 mobs)

[bronze forge]

ahhh

[signal plover]

but it's 4.5 every cast of TC

[onyx matrix]

@bronze forge well, chance for a reset too on SS

[bronze forge]

i see i see

[onyx matrix]

With devastator

[strong forum]

It's not illegal, but it only works with avatar, not with our ravager.

So you only get 1 window of reck or bladestorm once every 1.5min

Pretty bad if you ask me

[strong forum]

You can still block and parry during bladestorm. So no reason to cancel it unless you don't have enough rage to cast SB when you need to

[steel mauve]

ya, its worth it, you can cut demo shouts cd down dramatically, its not just capped to 4.5 seconds per demo shout use thats per tclap use, so every tclap you potentially drop the cd of demo shout by 4.5 seconds

[ocean bloom]

I think woehead said you could in theory have like 70% uptime

[lusty marsh]

Rip MDT

[steady spruce]

first tank on raider.io seems to be running signet

Do you guys know what the vials on the tables in doctor ickus room are forr?

[grave vigil]

4.5s per TC@3mobs. (1.5@1mob)

so its like -4.5s every 6sec

[gray wolf]

@steady spruce achievement

[open monolith]

RIP MDT? nah it is still around

it's just called Manbaby Dungeon Tools now

exact same addon, minus the manbaby author

[steady spruce]

@gray wolf thx

Is the wall really good for high keys over TL?

[open monolith]

They are both good for different reasons

it's really just preference

our legendaries suck

just like our conduits

so pick whichever sucky legendary you want

[steady spruce]

i'm running Signet right now ^^

I am having trouble with the big packs in Mueh Zela room, like the first one and the one at the entrance of ZG wing, what do you guys do to not get insta OS?

[fallow mortar]

Sheild wall

[astral crystal]

yeah use your cooldowns

spell reflect

interrupts

[steady spruce]

Like I reflect/interrupt the Shadowcore but still doesn't seem enough

[fallow mortar]

And kite

[astral crystal]

whatever else

[steady spruce]

you really need to start kiting fast on the first pull but still feel ov erwhelming

[open monolith]

those 2 pulls

are probably the hardest pulls in the game right now

well, the 1st one actually isn't bad, you just need to run from the enraged skeletons

but the one in front of the troll temple is legit super difficult. Blow lust on it, kite early, and pray

[steady spruce]

still got OS before the enrage lol

[open monolith]

Nothing in that pack can one shot you (the 1st pack of the dungeon)

[steady spruce]

not sure what happened to me then

i felt prepared

[woven kiln]

They're untankable imo, on like 13 and up. Run in with a cd, stun them, build aggro and run like a bitch

[steady spruce]

Plus on those first packs the Prideful pop at a weird timing, like i do the one big pack at the entrance, then "skip" the one at ZG entrance, go kill the mask guy, then the packs at the entrance of Mechagon, come back to ZG and then the prideful come up during the pack

Maybe having a DK to control a risen bonesoldier can help for prideful timing

or a risen cultist

[astral crystal]

i think the best way to do it is pull first pack obviously, then go to zg stairs, kill that back, then go to ardenweald stairs, kill raptors, proc prideful, kill the two warbringers, then continue to ZG so you get prideful for every boss

otherwise just kite

[steady spruce]

ardenweald is at the opposite of ZG tho

and i don't think you get Prideful for hakkar if you do that

[astral crystal]

you do

prideful spawns at pack before hakkar

the next prideful spawns at pack before manastorms

then final prideful before third boss

[steady spruce]

hmm dunno

[astral crystal]

wish i could share the mdt string but you know :^)

[steady spruce]

you're just doing ardenweald stairs in place of mechagon stairs

[astral crystal]

oops i meant

[steady spruce]

i think it's just further away

[astral crystal]

you kill pretty much everything in the ring

except for two rage masks? not sure, i dont recall clearly