protection

[heavy sail]

Having utility and damage for days is great though

[sick sentinel]

thats what i was thinking too, same stats but more

[heavy sail]

I feel way more potent in BGs

[sick sentinel]

i just don't really have the confidence to do higher keys yet again,

[uneven mason]

They're not hard as prot

we big sleeper again, folks waking up

[sick sentinel]

oh lord, what is spiteful

i about to go look ti up

[strong forum]

its basically the corruption guy chasing you

but you have to kill it

and it does alot more dmg on higher keys

[sick sentinel]

TFB?

[strong forum]

yes

[shut summit]

wasnt targeting tanks at end of beta either

[sick sentinel]

can't be that tough

[strong forum]

it can get out of hand real quick if there are like 4 spawning

[north dove]

ok is gluttonous spike a total miss?

[strong forum]

and everybody has to peace out

[sick sentinel]

good, that's half the reason i rolled tank, don't get targeted by spells

[neat root]

Do they spawn off every mob killed or just a chance to spawn?

[shut summit]

every mob killed

[sick sentinel]

there is probably a 0-100 bar right?

for when he will spawn

[strong forum]

ye, theyre basically free pad

and they tick out on their own everntually

they lose HP gradually

[neat root]

So another fuck you mechanic for melee dps

[strong forum]

its a fuck you for everyone, but yes

melees are not allowed to have fun in this game

[vestal moat]

How does the signet legendary work for prot? We dont even have recklessness or b ladestorm baseline?

[tardy parcel]

are the spiteful spawns as annoying as i expect them to be with the little slimes before first boss of plaguefall? lmao

[static grotto]

hellow guys, need some help

would you go for a 207 1hnded weapon or a 210 shield?

[sick sentinel]

going to try damage retaliator belt thing next run i can, thorns, drawback is i might take 10% dmg for 10 second

[kindred warren]

1h

[static grotto]

I incline to the same but want more opinions

[kindred warren]

Depends on stats too

[steel mauve]

depends on the ilvl upgrade, shield is massive in terms of upgraded stats

[static grotto]

hmmmm

[kindred warren]

But how much of a dps increase from 1h

[static grotto]

conquest shield costs only 450 conquest though

[tardy parcel]

what are you currently using for weapon/shield

[steel mauve]

shield is our best upgrade in terms of survivability

[static grotto]

its a tokien

[vapid spindle]

I've mostly seen people say that going for the bigger ilvl upgrade is better

[static grotto]

so dont know the stats

[vapid spindle]

whats your 1h and shield ilvl

[static grotto]

token*

[vapid spindle]

currently

[random dock]

Hello, is Stalwart Guardian only available via PvP? I don't see it in any raid/dungeon loot tables

[static grotto]

184

both pvp

[tardy parcel]

184 for both? shield

[vapid spindle]

I'd say shield, bigger ilvl upgrade

[tardy parcel]

184->210 shield will feel nuts

[static grotto]

Imagine that I can still buy a 200 ilvl shield or weapon

[steel mauve]

best case the 210 shield with the 200 pvp weapon

but its twice the conquest

[sick sentinel]

never helmet

[uneven mason]

Shield over weapon always.

[static grotto]

thats the thing man

twice the conquest

is a hard choice

for a noob at least

[sick sentinel]

i don't think ever gunna get a good helm

[steel mauve]

not really, the 210 shield would be better off still

[tardy parcel]

i cannot stress enough how much better a higher ilvl shield feels lol

and that's a huge jump

[gloomy sundial]

Can every week be Spiteful Storming please?

[vapid spindle]

hear me out

210 > 207

[static grotto]

for weapon cost I could buy shield and other 200 ilvl piece

that would get me higher Ilvl

the 450 cost shield play some tricks on me

mind games

[steel mauve]

it different when dealing with a shield though, your best outcome would be 210 shield with saving for the weapon, block rating is absolutely massive for survival

[static grotto]

Im fat, not having problem with phisical attacks, more of a magic issue

[uneven mason]

So, shield is a HUGE chunk of mitigation by itself, think of shields as a whole different set of gear.

[strong forum]

shield is the single most important slot

it makes or breaks a warrior

[static grotto]

then why is it so cheap? xD

[steel mauve]

its an offhand

[uneven mason]

like a 20ilvl gain on a shield is worth 10ilvls in every other armor slot IMO

[strong forum]

cuz only about 0.3% of all of wow players play prot warri

maybe less

[uneven mason]

And

[steel mauve]

just because its a best slot for 2 specs out of 36 doesnt change what it is

[uneven mason]

it has almost no offensive value

Shields are cheap because it doesn't let you murder people gooder

[static grotto]

hahahaha

[uneven mason]

its a PVE device

But for prot your shield is almost everything

[wooden heath]

question about my vault I currently have a 194 neck (117 haste / 47 mastery) I got a 216 neck in my vault (133 crit / 64 vers) is it worth the i level upgrade at the loss of 3.55% haste?

[uneven mason]

what other options

but probably

[steel mauve]

most likely

[wooden heath]

gloves arent an upgrade I ahve 213 and got 213

[uneven mason]

ok

So, while haste is our priority stat, its generally a guideline in equal ilvl situations

[wooden heath]

wearing 197 boots and have 210 in vault (current are32 crit / 58 mastery and vault are 34 crit / 64 vers)

[uneven mason]

ilvl will almost always win.

[steel mauve]

20 ilvls is a lot more stats, generally its sa bit more liberal on necks/rings but 22 ilvls is like 30 more stats

[static grotto]

is is more important in mythic+ than raid

haste*

[uneven mason]

its important in raid too

[static grotto]

In raid u should go in to the fray

[steel mauve]

haste is always important and doesnt matter the content you do

[uneven mason]

SB uptime is important

[static grotto]

and get nice hast buf

haste

[uneven mason]

@static grotto that doesn't negate that we want haste until 100% effective uptime on SB

ITF doesn't push that off the table

However

we also want HP, armor, armor...armor

[steel mauve]

our priorioty doesnt changits always ilvl>>haste>>>vers>=crit>mast

[wooden heath]

so I guess it comes down to boots or neck idk if you could understand my chicken scratch

[vast pike]

Anyone find themselves periodically with 2-3 seconds of not being able to do anything (everything is on cd, can only auto attack with devastator)?

[uneven mason]

and its not like Crit/vers/mastery are bad, they're just not haste

[vast pike]

not enough rage

ect

[uneven mason]

Yes Mike

pace yourself

rage budget is how prot plays early Xpac

[vast pike]

mostly happening in raids

vs caster bosses

[steel mauve]

the 216 neck will most likely be an upgrade even though you lose haste, 30 stats to gain is quite a bit

[static grotto]

check Lighte from complexity

hes prot warrior is only 9% haste

[wooden heath]

ok ill get the neck

[static grotto]

nihilum prot warrior has like 30%

[uneven mason]

just the luck of the drops betting you they're stacking Ilvl

[steel mauve]

you can probably get away with dropping 10-15 ilvls for a haste heavy neck/ring but ya 22 is a lot

[uneven mason]

ehhhhhhhhhhhhh

[static grotto]

its to extreme the diference

[uneven mason]

I'd say 5

maybe

on a high haste vs Ver/Mast

[wooden heath]

ok neck it is, thank you all for the help Im new to this

[steel mauve]

oh ya im going off bfa, after the stat squish i would probably lower it to 5-10, stats are far more important now and make a bigger impact now than they did before

and you cant always go off of what the "top" players are using, every one will most likely be different and even though they do heavy splits and stuff, they are just as much subjucated to rng as we are

[vast pike]

Are people using into the fray for raiding?

[tardy parcel]

yes

[wooden heath]

I only run m+ im no help lol

[vast pike]

what do you run in M+

ravager?

[wooden heath]

I do yes

[vast pike]

same

[wooden heath]

might change now that they changed threat issues

my group likes to go big right off

[vast pike]

i use it to kite as well

don't need to worry about hitting them to retain threat during kite windows

[uneven mason]

Ravager good for pulling dem casters

toss spinnyboy and LOS

[static grotto]

generates tons of rage for 10 secs, helps a lot to generate almost instant rage for a ShieldB and some ignore pains

it also hits up to 8 targets instead of 5

ur almost immortal for the duration of ravager in the pull

[west prairie]

I made thunder for pve, is there anything else worth making

[steel mauve]

the wall

[uneven mason]

every time I see it said that way, I have "we don't need no, education." play in my head.

[chilly brook]

Heres to hoping that I get a shield in my box

[torn mirage]

The wall is pretty cool in raid and M+

Its huge on Sludgefist when both tanks are in the same group

[chilly brook]

Wat

Why does both tanks being in the same group even matter

[torn mirage]

Because The Wall makes the party takes -50% dmg, not the whole raid

[chilly brook]

Uhhh

The Wall does not do that

[strong forum]

first of all

wrong legendary

2nd of all, its 25%

[chilly brook]

The Wall takes 5 seconds off Shield Wall every shield slam and gives 5 extra rage per shield slam

[strong olive]

Oh hey guys! I'm hanging out with yall while I farm this unhinged legendary for the day

[strong forum]

the group wide 25% shieldwall is probably never gonna see play

[compact siren]

i have been saved by the protection warrior

[steel mauve]

ya that lego is only 25% DR to the party, and the wall makes SS gen 5 more rage and takes 5 seconds off shield wall cd

[strong forum]

unless you get to use 2 legendaries and you can abuse it in M+ somehow

[chilly brook]

@strong forum please kill me, rotting away slowly and dying to just not getting direct healing is aids

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/1fjaXDLkJt9FZKnr/

[compact siren]

my only complaint is that i have to use avatar, demo shout, spear of bastion and ravager on every god damn opener

[chilly brook]

Literally died a few times on council because no direct heals

[strong forum]

i know the feeling of shit heals

[chilly brook]

Like I swear there are periods of 10 seconds or more where I'm just not getting anything

[strong forum]

yup

[chilly brook]

Which means I blow CDs that I dont need to

[steel mauve]

had a 16 second period of only hots before i died in a pug normal raid

[chilly brook]

That sounds about right

[compact siren]

"tank why dont u just heal urself"

[mellow patio]

I had a shaman fall off the edge of halls of atonement yesterday

[daring hound]

thats my gear setup and i just ran a +9 necrotic

i couldnt eveng et through the first room

i was taing on avg 4k dps a second

And I couldn't fucking survive

[torn mirage]

Oh fuck you're right,

[daring hound]

I spammed ignore pain and sb when i had it

[strong forum]

youre overgeard for +9s

by miles

[compact siren]

yeah that is 100% a heal issue

[strong forum]

with 200ilvl you can do 15s

[mellow patio]

199 ilvl in a 9 Gahdamn how you get so lucky

[daring hound]

My healer was healing like

4k as well

[compact siren]

i tanked a +9 nw this week with 180 and it was super easy until third and last boss

[daring hound]

Like

I'm geared for fury

Bc I main fury but

Trying to do m+ as fury is insane bc no one likes warriors

[strong forum]

seems like a git gud issue

[daring hound]

I just don't know why I'm taking so much fucking damage

im using last stand, using shield block, using ip

I don't think i can provide logs in the m+ but i just dont know why im getting crushed

that was my talent set up

[strong forum]

you can try running Bolster

but in +9s AM should be fine tbh

[daring hound]

like

okay so the healer

was healing

from 2.5k a pull

to 4.2k a pull

That's a perfectly fine amount right?

[strong forum]

yeah but is he healing you

or others

[static grotto]

@daring hound u have thunderlord leggo?

[wintry tundra]

I feel like without AM snapping threat becomes hella hard every other pack

[strong forum]

not really

im doing 13-15s with Ravager+Bolster

[daring hound]

No I don't have a prot leggo yet

[strong forum]

aggro is very comfy

[static grotto]

then go ravager instead of unstopable force

[daring hound]

should i craft that first before even doing m+?

[strong forum]

if you have aggro issues youre either not kyrian, or playing badly

oh lmao i didnt see

[static grotto]

gives tons of survi on packs

[strong forum]

youre playing Unstoppable Force

get away from that

REAL quick

its legit the worst talent on the row

[stoic summit]

My upgrades from great vault are ilvl210 weapon crit/mast or ilvl 200 trinket gluttonous spike. Thus would be replacing either 194 weapon with haste/vers or ilvl 184 bladedancers armor kit (other trinket is dm voracity). Which is the better pick?

[daring hound]

whaaaat

[steel mauve]

lego's help but they arent required for even higher keys

[daring hound]

im looking on wowhead and everything

[steel mauve]

and ya UF is bad

[daring hound]

its saying its best for m+?

[strong forum]

no its not

its saying "offensive"

not best

its also not 100% up to date

[daring hound]

whats recommended then

[static grotto]

@daring hound dont boost thunder clap if u dont have thunder leggo

[strong forum]

Ravager+Bolster

aka "defensive" build

also highlighted on wowhead and icyveins

[daring hound]

Okay

[steel mauve]

ravager is a god send, 60 rage every 45 seconds and a lot of threat/dps

[deft pumice]

does ravager not proc signet anymore?

[static grotto]

is ravager and anger management bad toghether?

[deft pumice]

anybody notice that?

[strong forum]

yes Spiderman

it doesnt for months now

only Arms Ravager procs signet because it replaces Bladestorm

[steel mauve]

AM is good offensively but bolster is better defensively

[daring hound]

Hm

I'll try that talent set up

adn to finish pvp and upgrade my shield to 184 instead of 171

[strong forum]

Prot Ravager does not proc Signet because its a completely different Ability

[daring hound]

if im running bolster + ravager what leggo should i get?

[strong forum]

Shield is the single most important item

[strong forum]

both "The Wall" and "Thunderlord" are great

[chilly brook]

Yep definitely periods of long time with a long ramp lol

[strong forum]

i prefer the wall

[static grotto]

me too, have rank 3 wall

doing great

[strong forum]

rank1 here ama

cuz i have 3 leggos

[compact siren]

Not sure if I should use anger management instead of bolster with the wall

[static grotto]

having shield block almost every pull

shield wall*

[daring hound]

what the wall should i craft?

[compact siren]

heavy repercussions also look tempting

[strong forum]

for keys above 11 Bolster @compact siren

[daring hound]

like

shoulder or back

[strong forum]

for 10 and lower Anger Managemnt

Shoulder

100000000000000000%

[daring hound]

Okay

[steel mauve]

HR isnt a bad talent, but it doesnt compete with the other 2

[strong forum]

Back is the single WORST slot to make a legendary

[daring hound]

Is it easier to run torghast as prot or just a dps spec?

[strong forum]

prot

its a cakewalk as tank

[daring hound]

man learning this spec is hard

like

[static grotto]

think now torghast is a mim

[strong forum]

but its rewarding once you play it well 👍

[daring hound]

it feels easy in a way bc i just use shield block when my damage taken is ramping up from big mobs and melee

and ip all the time

but still

that dungeon hurt my bones

every melee hitting me for like 6k

[compact siren]

imagine playing protection pala and going to prot warr

[chilly brook]

But muh 60 second shield wall

[strong forum]

i hate to flaunt my own, but just look at this real quick

i just love blocking

you can see the amounts im blocking

on my HP bar

[chilly brook]

Hi that's me

[strong forum]

wait

this clip is too short

[daring hound]

damn wtf

youre so good

all those blocks

i was using shield block and literally

[midnight burrow]

so just to be clear, a 223 bladedancers armor kit is more or less useless?

[daring hound]

the beginning mobs in necrotic just wiped the floor w me

[strong forum]

absolutely useless

https://clips.twitch.tv/BumblingHeartlessLionGrammarKing

[midnight burrow]

god

[strong forum]

thats the entire pull

[uneven mason]

because they leap behind you, and chances are your healer got stunned.

the # of people who don't interrupt drain fluids

enrages me IRL

[daring hound]

my bones hurt man

like

i ran a +7 mist yesterday

SO easily

then this +9 made my self confident go way down

[strong forum]

mists is the easiest dungeon in the game

[uneven mason]

yeah

theres a reason why its the speed run x4 for weekly dungeon

[strong forum]

necrotic is one of the harder ones, especially for tanks

[chilly brook]

Mists actually feels fair lmao

[uneven mason]

all that shadow damage

[compact siren]

i didnt know robert sheehan streamed prot warr keys

[timber lagoon]

I feel like the difficulty difference between 7 and 9 isn't insignificant

[chilly brook]

Those hotfixes yesterday were doodoo

[strong forum]

KEK

[chilly brook]

Hotfix the first boss of plaguefall but not the last

[uneven mason]

last boss in pf isnt hard

[strong forum]

its a healer check

[chilly brook]

It's a huge healer check

[uneven mason]

I mean

either was the first

But that

[strong forum]

first is less throughput

its chunky

[uneven mason]

yeah

[compact siren]

last boss in pf is absolute cancer as hpala

[strong forum]

but last boss is alot of pump

[compact siren]

cant generate holy power

[chilly brook]

They also didn't address the overlapping casts on caster in ToP

[daring hound]

top is my fave dungeon

[chilly brook]

Which can literally just RNG fuck your group

[uneven mason]

ToP

also the little explodyboys

who don't stay stunned

"Shockwave LOL no I'm over behind you YOU LIKE NATURE DMG BRO"

[chilly brook]

They didn't hotfix the broker boss either

Who apparently is double hitting with lightning

[uneven mason]

maybe thats working as intended.

Git gud mang

[chilly brook]

Idk someone said it was bugged

Was applying 2 stacks per hit in my group

[uneven mason]

it was, I was kidding.

[mossy gazelle]

So guys we use unstoppable force only with thunder lord leggo?

[strong forum]

not even then

UF is just dead

its playable, but the worst talent on its row

[sick sentinel]

223 vers mast waist with socket

or 223 plaguefall trinket that heals u from blobs

which do i get

[strong forum]

waist

[sick sentinel]

ty

[strong forum]

the trinket is DOGSHIT

[mossy gazelle]

But I am right with thunder lord is best for m+?

[strong forum]

its very good

but i personally prefer The Wall

[chilly brook]

Probably best for m+ but the wall is very powerful too

[amber herald]

UF is dead now? I haven't been playing that build but icyveins has it as bis

[strong forum]

read again Sausage

[mossy gazelle]

Hm I only got thunder lord atm to craft

[chilly brook]

IV doesn't have it as BiS

[amber herald]

interesting

I've been running bolster/ravager this entire time and much prefer it

[strong forum]

yes

its the better of the 2 builds

defensively

https://i.imgur.com/kqSOi4R.png

[amber herald]

I've been running it with the increased rage gen on last stand and can pull 10-11k dps on trash

[strong forum]

yes

Ravager is the best option for m+ hands down

[amber herald]

Still wonder what icyveins were thinking though

did something change from beta?

[strong forum]

yes

ITF became bis for raid

[chilly brook]

I mean tbh I can pull 10-11k without ravager and running ITF

[strong forum]

UF turned out to be weaker as initially thought

[chilly brook]

The biggest gain for Ravager is the rage gen

[strong forum]

and again, icyveins only highlights the synergy between AM and UF

but you have to actually read into it

[sick sentinel]

what kind of gem shouldi get

[strong forum]

haste

[cinder nova]

Oh motherfucker

[strong forum]

if youre omega min maxy, you throw in 1 leviathan strength gem

[cinder nova]

Should I get a 200 weapon token (I have 184 shield/weapon) or up my belt with a 210, which is currently 177 atm

[ember inlet]

pug raid in HC declined me on Inerva KEKW

Pwar is weak KEKW

[strong forum]

cringe

[ember inlet]

they didnt even know i can reflect her tank dot

metachasers are getting more and more retarded 😄

[strong forum]

you can get a free 200 ilvl weapon and shield from capping your conquest

[cinder nova]

So the belt, then?

[strong forum]

if you actually commit to capping conquest

yes

[cinder nova]

Yeah that's ez. I climbed to 1500 with my buddy as a joke, but it's not bad as arms... sometimes.

[strong forum]

arms is the strongest melee in arena currently

[cinder nova]

Yeah, just sucks getting yanked around by ranged sometimes.

[strong forum]

just spear+bladestorm

something dies

[cinder nova]

So what's the deal with the solo leviathan?

Is the STR really that good compared to the 16 haste?

[strong forum]

mainstat sims like 3-4x as much as secondary stats

[cinder nova]

Say no more

[strong forum]

for almost everyone

[nimble drift]

Is the Slimy Consumptive Organ good?

[strong forum]

terrible

absolute trash

[nimble drift]

GAH

my vault

all trash

[strong forum]

im fully expecting to see 2x 226 tank trinkets in my vault

and both being a tank trinket

neither being Hakkar

[woven trellis]

hi, so i lvl up my warrior alt yesterday, is there a consensus on which spec is best for torgast?

[strong forum]

prot

[chilly brook]

That's a guarentee

[nimble drift]

I got a sinful gladiators insignia and slimy consumptive organ :^)

gonna kms lmao

[strong forum]

lmao

F

[woven trellis]

lovely, i expected that answer and i love it

[uneven mason]

Prot is unkillable in torghast more or less.

[nimble drift]

So do I go for the highest ilvl item or the biggest ilvl upgrade

[strong forum]

depends

[chilly brook]

Prot in torghast is the biggest power trip

[uneven mason]

depends on the slot

[chilly brook]

Makes me sad

[uneven mason]

Itsl ike Legion prot

[woven trellis]

why

[uneven mason]

Because we're reminded of what we once were

Its like Legion + BFA prot

[chilly brook]

Because you can see what prot could actually be compared to how it is with how bad tank tuning is

[uneven mason]

the unkillability + big Damage

[woven trellis]

cmon all tanks are bad rn were not that bad

[strong forum]

true tbh

[chilly brook]

That's why it makes me sad

[uneven mason]

We're not bad

[chilly brook]

Lmao

[uneven mason]

but we're not, god

[strong forum]

every tank is bad

compared to legion

[chilly brook]

Because all tanks feel like ass

[strong forum]

like come on

[uneven mason]

yes

Legions "why healer"

[strong forum]

IMAGINE the insanity if 1 of the tanks randomly got all their Artifact traits

[uneven mason]

Legion tank stacking is why M+ enforce spec roles

[strong forum]

that tank would be so beyond broken

[chilly brook]

By feel like ass I mean so reliant on everyone else and have no capability to carry

[strong forum]

idk why they went with omega nerfing everything into the floor

legit

[uneven mason]

To be fair, for the first half of BFA

they let us be #1 in M+ DPS

[chilly brook]

Because Ion doesn't like tanks having carry potential

[strong forum]

tanks are so terribly weak

compared to what they were

[uneven mason]

They saw prot warriors soloing bosses in +20s

and were like "we should change this"

[woven trellis]

tbf are we that bad tho? i mean, its been not even a month and we already do 15s keys and starting mythic or finishing up for some others? game feels balanced and we have objectives to do, thats good

[dense pivot]

why are we arguing for unkillable tanks?

[chilly brook]

He thinks we need to be attached to healers at the hip and that we shouldn't do anything outside of focusing on survival

[strong forum]

im not saying we as warriors are weak

im saying EVERY TANK is weak

legit

[chilly brook]

They weren't unkillable in Legion

[uneven mason]

Not that we're worst off than the other tanks, it sjust that in Legion we were flat out unkillable

We kinda were

I mean, later on

[chilly brook]

Nah

[uneven mason]

we had that 100% or 1 shot

[chilly brook]

You just either lived or you died

[uneven mason]

Remember block meme on heroic Argus

[strong forum]

the point is literally, compared to legion, every tank is paper

they nerfed tank survivability by extreme levels

[woven trellis]

but is it bad

?

i mean

[uneven mason]

Blocking for literally more than the combined hP total of the raid x10

[strong forum]

compared to legion, yes. in the current meta, no

[woven trellis]

being too strong is like playing a game with cheatcode

its not fun

[dense pivot]

Idk why it's bad

[strong forum]

for SL levels, its in a good spot

[uneven mason]

Yup

[chilly brook]

Bruh you're doing 15s not on the merit of you as a tank but on the merit of the 4 other people in the group

You're basically a noncontributer tbh

[uneven mason]

"here go position these mobs"

"now run"

[woven trellis]

not true as well, u have to do ur best to stay alive, cc, kite etc

[chilly brook]

Wat

[woven trellis]

if u can facetank everything without thinking, its 2 easy

and everybody can do it

[strong forum]

dont need to kite if shit is dead, i find, its more important to have good dps

[uneven mason]

Tanks shouldn't have to kite

ever.

[chilly brook]

You press your mitigation, and then get out when you dont have it

[woven trellis]

why not

[strong forum]

Kiting is TERRIBLE

[uneven mason]

Because that isn't tanking?

[chilly brook]

Kiting mobs is so engaging

[uneven mason]

Thats kiting

which any flipperhanded Frost mage can do

[strong forum]

i legit am screaming how shit the game is when im forced to kite

because they overtune mobs/abilities

and have tanks too weak

[woven trellis]

i dont know, i mean its in the basic meaning of the word taunt, <HEY IM HERE, FOLLOW ME LEL<

[strong forum]

to be able to deal with them

[uneven mason]

We have what I like to call "The GoD problem"

[chilly brook]

If I'm not being hit

I'm not a tank

[strong forum]

if i have to run away to live, its boring

i like to play the game

[uneven mason]

EQ they tuned raid content so idiotically high, because they gave everyone all these tools to deal with crap.

[woven trellis]

i agree for one thing, its more enjoyable to be able to facetank shit

i agree

but

[uneven mason]

So they had to give them more tools

[woven trellis]

its just s1

[strong forum]

its bad design.

every tank has to kite

[uneven mason]

which made them tune it higher

[strong forum]

every

single

one

[uneven mason]

VDH just happens to have the most "run away" in their toolkit

while being able to spam sigil

[strong forum]

well

[uneven mason]

"spam"

[strong forum]

they are strong because of FB build and Meta

[chilly brook]

Kiting is literally even less skill

Member legion

Hey bring dk

[strong forum]

but they have to kite alot sooner

and alot more often outside of their CDs

[uneven mason]

lol

[chilly brook]

D&D slow

Keep misdirect up

[uneven mason]

90% snare

[chilly brook]

Run whole time

Yay

[uneven mason]

Oh yeah

and you can grip them back into the D&D

to restart the 90%

engaging

[chilly brook]

Literally if I'm not "tanking" the damage what am I there for

And yes it's just S1

[strong forum]

tanks are indubitably weaker just because its S1

but that doesnt excuse that there are untankable mobs

[chilly brook]

S1 after they continually nerfed tanks anytime they actually felt like they weren't paper during beta and made stupid mobs and mechanics and bosses

Like shit is just overtuned and tanks are undertuned

I mean them nerfing SotR armor literally tells you all you need to know

[strong forum]

itll take a coule months for dungeons to be proper fun

[uneven mason]

the upper edge of reward keys needs to be tuned so that a tank in a logical amount of gear should be able to tank it

not saying a 184 should be tanking +15s

but you shouldn't need 20ilvls higher to stand up to the stuff than the reward given at the end.

[chilly brook]

Imagine nerfing one of the historically weaker tanks mitigation

[uneven mason]

To drop the flipside of the coin people hit us with "But they can heal themselves"

[woven trellis]

well as ilvl 150 u can tank m0, and as ilvl 184, u can tank +5 which reward what, 190+? and at 190+ u can tank +10 which reward 200, its a progression, its just slow

[strong forum]

you can tank m0 at 130

[woven trellis]

see

[uneven mason]

I was in greens

[woven trellis]

i was trying to be nice

[uneven mason]

but you have to logically know what your doing

[woven trellis]

that prove my point

thats it

[strong forum]

yeah....

[uneven mason]

but you can't tank

+15s in 210

they just obliterate you

[chilly brook]

I mean try doing a +5 this week at 184 with dumbass pugs

[strong forum]

even with that gear you have to kite

alot

[chilly brook]

You're still gonna get crushed

[uneven mason]

Thats my point

[chilly brook]

[uneven mason]

is that if I am geared relatively close to the ilvl of the rewards from the dungeon, I shouldn't HAVE to kite

[strong forum]

the only reason why you can do those keys with lower gear is, is because you can just kite it

[uneven mason]

like that shouldn't be the only strat.

[woven trellis]

try to do any key with dumbass pugs, its not a gear or tank problem

its a pug problem

[chilly brook]

Not in previous content

I could at least carry reasonably with bad pugs

Because I didnt get omega gimped by a missed kick in most content

[woven trellis]

true

[uneven mason]

@chilly brook I was healing on my shaman, literally had a paladin tank not pull the 2 slime golems before the first boss of PF, then proceed to kite the boss into them, while trying to run away from slimes, found out - the slimed summoned by the trash - buff the boss as well.

PUGs

[chilly brook]

Lol

[edgy crest]

I have a question, having a discussion with a buddy about Prot vs Gaurdian, what are the advantages prot has over gaurdian?

[uneven mason]

I think that was the most concrete NOPE I've had in a while.

[chilly brook]

You dont fall asleep at the keyboard

[strong forum]

Warrior has higher dmg output and spell reflect

[uneven mason]

and higher base mitigation

[chilly brook]

Arguably we're more tanky when our mitigation is actually up

[strong forum]

Bear can be however insanely tanky with the barkskin legendary

[uneven mason]

Warrior afk has more armor than bear with 1 stack IF last I checked

[strong forum]

Ye

[uneven mason]

but bur has good legos

we have

[chilly brook]

Perma ironfur

[uneven mason]

...

[strong forum]

But you should just play what you enjoy more

[chilly brook]

[uneven mason]

Bears can Bres

[chilly brook]

Hey man

[uneven mason]

Hey man

[chilly brook]

The Wall is a good lego

[strong forum]

Both tanks are perfectly playable, warri is harder to play, both have huge potentials

[winter ridge]

can we get the same comparison for prot vs veng?

[chilly brook]

[uneven mason]

Yes

ok

Know what would've been a nice lego

[strong forum]

Veng is a god vs magic dmg. Unbeaten by anyone.

[autumn narwhal]

its the same every reset - warrior sucks and bear is great. further into the expansion warrior will improve greatly

[uneven mason]

Symbol of the Battle lord

but gives you the legion version of AM

Veng also takes damage like wet cardboard outside of meta

[edgy crest]

I main fury but I'm gonna delve into prot for torghast and helping alts and lower guildies, and he's just going on about i shouldn't even try because we have too many tanks and I'd be competing with him

[uneven mason]

If you're not doing CE content it doesn't matter what you play

[chilly brook]

More like, prot is good but it changed drastically and people just haven't adjusted and the first major patch sees some stupid small buff that makes people think warrior is a god

[autumn narwhal]

if you main fury just play fury in torghast its just as easy

[uneven mason]

What brand of paint do you eat?

[jagged pier]

you mean if you not top 20 it doesnt matter and even then limit are using a prot warrior

[uneven mason]

Yes limit is double prot, runing our sleeper surprise status

[chilly brook]

Like seriously

Every xpac prot gets changed

[uneven mason]

I guess they learned from BFA

[chilly brook]

And people assume it sucks

Because they try to play it like it played in the previous xpac

[uneven mason]

BFA was like "Prot sucks - unless you can play it, then your ass is capping mitigation"

[digital nova]

prot did suck in the first raid tier

of bfa

[chilly brook]

It didnt

[uneven mason]

it didn't

[digital nova]

k

[chilly brook]

Bruh

Hold up

[sweet summit]

it was clunky to play

it didnt suck

[uneven mason]

it was difficult

to play properly

because you had to be 100% proactive

and budget your GCDs and rage

[chilly brook]

Watch my cotank compared to me

https://youtu.be/Fg6n9MFTmVE

@digital nova

[uneven mason]

rather than IDK, ever other tank which was flipperhand slapping your keyboard

and making it the healers problem

[chilly brook]

Literally it's like I took no damage

[night bison]

I mean, you still have to do that in M7/8 and up, cant just blow everything for DPS usually.

[chilly brook]

He literally couldn't take the 3 hit combo

As a brewmaster

[uneven mason]

Oh haha

Oh Mythic Z

[chilly brook]

Supposedly the greatest tank of all time that tier

[strong forum]

yeah my cotank always struggled with the combo

warri just ignored it

ez CE in uldir tbh

[chilly brook]

Uldir was cake except for like zul

[strong forum]

zul still haunts me

[chilly brook]

For warrior

[uneven mason]

Zek'Voz triple combo was blowing up the BDK and Pal in my guild

Prot war comes out of it like "What did he do someting"

[digital nova]

zul literally made me play a different class in bfa

[uneven mason]

Zul was rough

but that wasn't just prot

that was all the tanks with that bleed

[chilly brook]

Zul sucked for literally every tank

[uneven mason]

because you had to leave melee

[strong forum]

yup

[uneven mason]

we tried it with BDK

[strong forum]

you were at the mercy of your healers

[uneven mason]

and he died the instant he couldn't Death Strike anymore

[strong forum]

scary thought

[uneven mason]

at 3

[chilly brook]

You either had good healers and BoPs or you died

[strong forum]

yup

and we 2 tanked

[uneven mason]

Paladins had the best time because they had 2 slef removals

[strong forum]

so i had adds ontop of me aswell

scarey

[uneven mason]

#1 on DPS tho right Nom

[strong forum]

no

[chilly brook]

Zul trash was the only good thing for him

[strong forum]

i wasnt allowed to pad

cuz adds died

[uneven mason]

poo

[strong forum]

too fast

:))))

[uneven mason]

😄

[chilly brook]

Flexing with 100k aoe dps on everyone in raid was great

[digital nova]

but my beef with warrior in first tier bfa was IP being on the GCD, so it felt like absolute shit to play

[uneven mason]

6 digits 2 patches before DPS could reach it, that was prot in 8.0

[strong forum]

you had to get used to it

[chilly brook]

But it was fine

[strong forum]

thats about it

i was perfectly fine

just like right now

[uneven mason]

what else were you going to press, Devastate LOL

[strong forum]

people complain how ass it is to play

[chilly brook]

You weren't dead

[strong forum]

its just people refusing to adapt

[chilly brook]

Because IP wasn't your mitigation

It was a dump

[uneven mason]

to cycle

AM

[chilly brook]

Literally just replace a devastate cast

It wasn't that bad

[uneven mason]

IP was great even on the GCD because you could pump AM for more Avatar

for more Demo shout

for more Thunderclap

[chilly brook]

70% uptime demo shout

[uneven mason]

IP - lead to greater DPS than pressing devastate, which was something people 100% missed when they QQ'd about it beig on the GCD

72%

FWIW

[chilly brook]

72.3

[uneven mason]

89% Mitigation on Fetid~

[strong forum]

fetid was so comfy

[uneven mason]

mmhm

[strong forum]

just sit there in your corner

[uneven mason]

BDK like getting 1 shot

[chilly brook]

92% uptime on deep wounds tho

[strong forum]

3min later you get your loot

great

[chilly brook]

Because am bad

[uneven mason]

and we're all like "LOL I Just blocked for more than you HP"

[chilly brook]

Bruh when you took a 8k hit from fetids buffed auto

[uneven mason]

However @digital nova The "Prot is bad" in BFA came from mostly YouTurders who couldn't figure out how to press shield block properly

[chilly brook]

Crit block was so good

[uneven mason]

during beta

and it just persisted

[chilly brook]

Prot is bad came from Sco who barely pressed shield block and played talents like never surrender

[uneven mason]

OMFG

[chilly brook]

[uneven mason]

or Preach

😡

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[digital nova]

i didn't say that because of youtube I said it because it felt bad while clearing normal/heroic compared to previous iterations of the spec, not saying it wasn't viable or that it was useless

[chilly brook]

Love preach but he can be headass sometimes

[uneven mason]

feeling bad and actually being mechanically bad are 2 different things

[digital nova]

no kidding

[uneven mason]

I agree until I got used to it, prot felt like playing soccer with a brick

until I had a zen moment

and realized

I am 🧱

[chilly brook]

Topic was the performance

Your response implied it performed badly

[digital nova]

thanks for the snip i know what i said

and i fuckin stand by too

[strong forum]

power move

wrong, but power move

[chilly brook]

I mean you can stand by a bad hot take

Wouldn't be a wow player if you didnt

[digital nova]

yes, my "implied response" that i clarified was def wrong

but when something feels like shit to play, it feels like shit to play

[chilly brook]

That wasn't what you said though and you just said you stand by that

[digital nova]

lmao

[woven trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/fake-news-news-donald-donald-trump-drumpf-gif-7676808

[digital nova]

i don't stand by what you thought i said

i stand by what i said and what i clarified

[amber herald]

dranei best prot warrior race?

[chilly brook]

Doesnt really matter

[digital nova]

Kul tiran all day erry day

[chilly brook]

But if I were you and I was alliance I'd be playing dorf

[amber herald]

hot is nice

[chilly brook]

Cleanse is better

[amber herald]

yeah but potion kinda replaces stoneform in alot of ways

[chilly brook]

I.e. stoneform

[digital nova]

yeah the anti bleed on dorf is tempting af

[chilly brook]

Por que no los dos

Potion has a 3 minute cd

Stoneform can remove when it's on CD

📈

[amber herald]

Dogs and last plaguefall boss are the only places I can think where it really matters

[chilly brook]

And there are a lot of bleeds

[amber herald]

manastorm bleed?

[chilly brook]

Trolls in DoS

[amber herald]

gift of naaru is good for putting on other people too as it's 20% of your HP

[woven trellis]

you guys know if having reputation on one alt will allow getting sockets on every alt?

[amber herald]

so as a tank you can heal dps up pretty nicely

[strong forum]

eh

dorf is unbeaten

way too many uses

[chilly brook]

Gargoyles in sanguine depths

[strong forum]

WAY too many

[chilly brook]

Literally dorf racial is far more value

[strong forum]

i wish i was dorf

[chilly brook]

Same

[strong forum]

i dont have enough kyrian phials

CD too long

1min CD would be better

[amber herald]

it was a toss up between dwarf and dranei for me

[chilly brook]

Removing damage is far more valuable than healing it back

[digital nova]

but back to the discussion, a lot of people are talking shit on kiting in dungeons when prot warriors kiting stuff has been a thing since literally vanilla.

but it feels like shit so it sucks

[vocal bison]

christmas came early bois:

[chilly brook]

Uhhhh

[strong forum]

you didnt kite in legion ever

[chilly brook]

Havent kited really in Legion or BFA

[strong forum]

or bfa

[chilly brook]

Outside of dropping necrotic

[amber herald]

I like the kiting but I run with a group on disc so it involves a lot of group co-ordination for me

with people actually doing it

[strong forum]

and before legion, you didnt have content where kiting existed

[chilly brook]

It hasn't been a part of modern wow for warriors

[strong forum]

raiding was the only metric

[digital nova]

because tanking was dick easy in both expacs, most of the game really

[strong forum]

so

[chilly brook]

Like haven't kited ever in my time of playing since late BC as a tank

[uneven mason]

We didn't have to kite in Classic, or TBC, or WOTLK ( definetly not WOTLK) or Cataclysm

or MoP

WoD we just didn't exist

[digital nova]

bro how slow were your dungeons

[nimble drift]

You can stone form a lot of things that Phial doesnt work on

[strong forum]

dungeons pre-legion are a meme

come on

[nimble drift]

Like the stone legion general bleed can stoneform but not phial

[uneven mason]

I think you're confusing kiting with "Rolling pulls"

[chilly brook]

^

[uneven mason]

I tanked those pulls

[chilly brook]

Same

[digital nova]

no I mean pulling huge and kiting when you got low, a thing that's happened in dungeon content since forever until you over gear the dungeon

[uneven mason]

The kiting we're talking about is because no tank is currently able to actually STAND and tank the mobs

[digital nova]

then you just sit there

[uneven mason]

not by choice, not for speed

but because the mobs will gib you outside of major CDs

[chilly brook]

^^

[uneven mason]

I just never needed to kite when I got low

because we didn't really get low?

[chilly brook]

Definitely not in Legion

[uneven mason]

legion we just healed back to full

[chilly brook]

And BFA you probably fucked up if you got low

[uneven mason]

from the 99% they got us to

yeah I was certinaly not kiting in M+ in early BFA

kiting didn't become a thing until you goto utside of logical key levels, like +20s when the rewards apped at +10

[amber herald]

I kite on my monk, it's just plain running away as a warrior

[nimble drift]

Is fury or arms better as kyrian

[uneven mason]

I mean

[amber herald]

we don't have anything to do at range which sucks

[nimble drift]

I gotta dps as one for raid, which should i

[amber herald]

to the mobs I mean

[chilly brook]

My healer complained about having nothing to do last xpac at the beginning of BFA

[strong forum]

prot

[uneven mason]

monks take damage like wet cardboard

[strong forum]

but also arms is just outright better than fury

[amber herald]

well they're supposed to

[strong forum]

fury is the worst spec in the game almost

[uneven mason]

FUry is smoldering garbage level DPS atm

"almost"

[digital nova]

fuckin a fury is not great

[uneven mason]

we fight with Frost mages and assassination rogues for that title

[chilly brook]

I guess it's an ok tradeoff to be a budget prot paladin in terms of damage

Single target damage that is

Not aoe

[chilly brook]

Throw weapon for that phat threat

[grave vine]

I lose only slightly on DPS to a frost mage, as prot

[nimble drift]

Okay so if I gotta go dps to be in a raid, go arms

Got it

[strong forum]

yes

[nimble drift]

I wonder how good arms is without condemn

[amber herald]

I am very familiar with heroic throw spam

[nimble drift]

Since it's like 70% of their damage

[amber herald]

sucks ass lol

[strong forum]

you gotta look at it differently

condemn is such a huge part of their dmg, because they press it 55% of the time

when without it, you only execute 35% of the time

so it looks bigger on the dmg meter than the actual influence it is

[amber herald]

If they're going to make us kite we should have more to do at range imo

[strong forum]

but not being venthyr is a good 10% dmg loss on ST iirc

[chilly brook]

They should just make dungeons not so oppressive

[strong forum]

not an expert on arms

[chilly brook]

Or like buff tanks

[uneven mason]

If you're losing to frost as prot you're doing it wrong.

[chilly brook]

Or maybe both

[strong forum]

na, a good frostmage will still outdps you

[chilly brook]

Like what a novel idea

[strong forum]

emphasis on good

[uneven mason]

very good

99 parse

[strong forum]

any good dps should outdps you, if they dont, they suck

simple as

[chilly brook]

Tbh tanking so far this expansion has been a pretty shit experience, I'm considering going DPS for the first time since WoD

[uneven mason]

I'm DPSing in raids

as fury

🤮

[chilly brook]

Oof

I'd just reroll a different class if I decided to dps

[strong forum]

ye theyre doing great work at making tanking as bad as possible

[digital nova]

as a warr or in general?

[chilly brook]

In general

Warr has felt the best out of the ones I have at max level

[strong forum]

SL is extremely tank unfriendly

raid hurts, m+ hurts a ton

[chilly brook]

Its going to make grouping worse

Because its going to push tanks out

[amber herald]

And people will still only what DH/brewmaster

[digital nova]

oh great another fortified week. yee-haw

[chilly brook]

Welcome to kite week

Not only do the mobs fuck you

[strong forum]

it always cycles fort-tyr-fort-tyr

[dense flame]

are you guys leaning more towards the wall or thunderlords for pushing? Not that it matters, just seeing what you guys are leaning towards

[chilly brook]

But they continue to fuck you after they die

[strong forum]

wall

imo

[wild harbor]

Hey guys, I am new to tanking and I have a question: Does the main hand weapon damage affect only our auto attack damage?

[chilly brook]

Might as well just level my warlock

[strong forum]

it affects ALL dmg

[amber herald]

wall for tyannical weeks, thunderlords for fortified was gonna be my decision

but I don't really have any idea

[digital nova]

i got a resto druid up, might as well do that

[grave vine]

I got wall memory before tgv, so sticking to wall as a principle

[digital nova]

i got the wall memory last week, now i just need the soul ash and gold to make the damn thing

[nimble drift]

@strong forum would you suggest a weapon with higher top or low end

[strong forum]

irrelevant

[chilly brook]

The fact that a proponent of kiting is dreading fort week says it all tbh

[dense flame]

kiting xd.

just facetank

[nimble drift]

Well the red anima currency u get from raid, you can buy axe or sword

[dense flame]

then blame your healer

[nimble drift]

Only difference is top end and low end dmg

[strong forum]

buy what you like visually more 👍

[digital nova]

"proponent" man you really need to realize there's more than for or against, I literally said kiting feels like shit and sucks

[nimble drift]

Kiting isnt that bad

Just zooming around

[strong forum]

i too like to not play the game....

when only a couple months ago i could play the game

and slam

[nimble drift]

Think anything will be changed?

[strong forum]

yes

[digital nova]

yeah

[strong forum]

they will nerf dungeons

tanks will have more ilvl

thus you can tank longer

and hopefully they will buff tanks survivability

[digital nova]

at first i thought it was fine and that gear will fix it but everyone is getting bodied, not just prot war

[strong forum]

yes

if you ever watch a VDH high key stream

just look at how much they fucking kite

its so obnoxious

[chilly brook]

My bad you're right saying essentially "we had to kite since vanilla get over it" doesn't come off as saying it's ok at all

[strong forum]

now now

stop fighting

its getting a bit annoying still arguing about that

[digital nova]

reading comprehension bud

[chilly brook]

That's my speciality tho Nom

[digital nova]

anyone else already sick of torghast?

[uneven mason]

No

[strong forum]

Yup

[neat root]

Just 2 45 min runs a week

Not a big deal tbh

[strong forum]

45min

What

20min

Speedrun that shit

[neat root]

Ok 20 mins

[strong forum]

But still 40min too much

[uneven mason]

Do you not pull entire floors at once wtf

[neat root]

Juat saying it's nothing, quick and easy

[chilly brook]

Torghast has been probably the thing I've enjoyed the most this expansion

[uneven mason]

can relive the good old days

of legionprot

[chilly brook]

I'm just salty they haven't released TC yet

[uneven mason]

with the DPS of BFA Prot

[strong forum]

the thing i enjoyed the most so far is