i guess someone was saying stacking mastery helps your crit block but according to wowhead they have mastery as the last priority
#protection
eternal musk
they all help you one way or another with haste being the most important
for now at least
eternal musk
the wall ?
echo wigeon
yes
eternal musk
havent crafted yet ive been upgrading my thunderlord because i wanted to focus on mythic+
the wall seems great though best raiding legendary for sure and is good in mythic+ too
hardy fractal
it would be nice if they made a talent so you could use spell reflect more or gave it two charges
eternal musk
yeah 2 charges would be sweet
maybe buff ignore pain a bit
cuz i end up spending a lot of rage to fill my ignore pain absorb only for it to be 1 shotted on tyrannical boss
lavish oracle
I mean, it is meant to be a rage dump
hardy fractal
without the talent its such a pitiful absorb shield
hardy fractal
yeah lets see them do that with storming
eternal musk
lol
some casters i was with said it was actually harder on the range
than the melee
open monolith
storming got nerfed 😮
hardy fractal
its the knock back that really gets you
eternal musk
yup
i got knocked out of one and couldnt get in the golden shield in time on the last boss in sanguine
and didnt time last minute we had it lol
fuck storming
open monolith
storming is a bit silly
requires SIGNIFICANTLY more movement than volcanic
volcanic you just sidestep like half an inch and you're good
eternal musk
yes i find myself just weaving in and out and around of them
open monolith
I pull the mobs completely away from them
eternal musk
and not trying to completely kite away but sometimes i do just to make things more comfortable
is that better?
always ?
open monolith
yes
eternal musk
ok
open monolith
unless you don't have the room to kite, yes
hardy fractal
how about venutax
eternal musk
good to know
hardy fractal
second spires boss
open monolith
Venutax is the great filter
open monolith
don't bring stationary casters to that dungeon on tyrannical week
and also don't bring bad players
eternal musk
hahahaah
open monolith
I try to drop all of the orbs on one side of the arena
if my group is all ranged
but honestly that fight is just a bad-player-filter
and also a long-cast-time-spec-filter
hardy fractal
lol nah dude drop the orbs right next to the boss in the middle
-t. every person in my groups
open monolith
you save lust and spear for that boss and hope you can down him
i mean, the orb drops from wherever the boss was when it teleports
eternal musk
i think
iuf u have the dps
it makes it easier
cuz at the end it gets pretty congested
open monolith
that's a blisteringly hot take
eternal musk
if u dont got the dps
open monolith
more DPS = easier fights?!
eternal musk
LOL
open monolith
wat
open monolith
jesus dude, how could you say something so brave
open monolith
stiff briar
strong forum
pretty sure atrocity was still in on arms
on most bosses
and darkee on his pwar
🙂
ionic fern
Who cares what they bring it for. Just goes to show that any tank can do any content.
strong forum
precisely
deft vessel
hm, I'm sort of lost on trinkets, I'm just sort of unhappy with all my trinkets lol
ironically, still didn't get any trinkets from ANY of my mythic+ runs, but I did get three from normal mythics and one from LFR just now
empty nexus
how is prot war in raid
deft vessel
this is the general collection of decent ilvl ones
which two would you lot use for which content?
from left to right: Decanter of Anima-Charged Winds, Anima Field Emitter, Gluttonous Spike, Pulsating Stoneheart and Queensguard's Vigil (the only reason why I include it is because it's genuinely been pretty great
but it's from world quests, so getting a high item level of it is hard
sturdy sable
how is prot war in raid
Well limits using one for world first prog sooo
empty nexus
only use em cuz arms succ Kappa
deft vessel
they've had an arms warrior for 4 out of the 8 kills
but yeah, the only constants in their roster that have been for all 8 kills are the prot warrior and one of their MM hunters
sturdy sable
only use em cuz arms succ Kappa
Alright well they are still being used for bleeding edge content undergeard I dunno what else to tell you
strong forum
this is the general collection of decent ilvl ones
id just use decanter + anime emitter, good dmg and emitter is ton of haste with high uptime
chilly laurel
Is there a general principle for Shield Block and Ignore Pain usage in dungeons?
strong forum
SB >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IP when facing blockable attacks
IP as dmg smoother and rage dump ontop of it
chilly laurel
Should IP be the main rage spender over revenge?
strong forum
IP is defensive rage spender
revenge is offensive rage spender and main damage source
use both
west prairie
unstoppable force + anger management with thunder legendary ?
grizzled skiff
I feel like the wall is a much better all around choice than thunderlord. During tyrannical week TL loses mad value imo.
And no, I'll still run ravager / bolster mostly.
chilly laurel
How good/bad is condemn for prot?
If I recall it's better than banner but that's not saying much lol
sonic jungle
I don’t think it’s good. But it can’t be that bad if the top Prot warrior m+ wise is condemn lol
uneven river
Its fine if you multispec
sonic jungle
But spear of bastions kite potential and rage generation too good imo
uneven river
yup for sure but if your a arms main that prots on the side condemn to op
sonic jungle
Yea. I’m an arms main who prots on the side but I also hate condemn lol
uneven river
it is boring
obtuse charm
is Memory of an Unbreakable Will good?
sage cairn
its nice utility for rest of group but does not directly effect you or help you get more up time on mitigation
wow words are hard
obtuse charm
i see
shell hare
revenge is offensive rage spender and main damage source
Really? Read that revenge was only to be used if it was free. I understanding using it to dump but is it a main damage source?
open monolith
@shell hare It's not really as simple as either one of you are trying to make it
Revenge use has everything to do with incoming damage
If you're barely getting tickled, pump them numbers up and start spamming those revenges
If you're barely keeping your health bar up, it's probably better to just use them when it's free
It's a very situational thing
I'm assuming he meant main damage source in the context of only offensive resource spender
valid summit
does the wall drop from lfr?
open monolith
Yes i believe so
shell hare
Thanks @open monolith . Still learning the right play for warrior, especially since I have condemn.
dense pivot
does the wall drop from lfr?
it does
coral ledge
bannerboy4lyfe
sturdy sable
Thanks <@107288520086863872> . Still learning the right play for warrior, especi...
Alright so if your running condemn and want to take full advantage of it you are very tanky inside of your bolster windows and can for the most part safely spend more rage on damage so try to line a bolster with sub 20%
Its what I do to spam executes lmao
shell hare
Yep! Execute range Feels good
sturdy sable
Its even better with the increased rage gen condiut on last stand
shell hare
You use Theo or the chick?
sullen drift
the trinket with the ??? is good for us ?
astral crystal
tall ginkgo
being able to spell reflect reaping scyhte in theatre of pain is fucked
so much damage
sick sentinel
i'll take any trinbkets at this point
don't really care what it is
been running low spire keys to try to get that one, but nothing
mellow scarab
where can a scrub like me find dungeon routes
feral hound
mellow scarab
i had a strong feeling this was something i could google myself but i wasnt sure
feral hound
It's all good. I JUST found it, and it says it doesn't have alot of specific routes. But there's good info in there.
mellow scarab
does MDT show up on mini map?
sturdy sable
Tank notes is 100%worth reading
sturdy sable
does MDT show up on mini map?
Not unless its been updated since the last time I used it
mellow scarab
so best to just run it on other monitor until memorized?
sturdy sable
Yall could open it up mid run to
Mostly dungeons have a general route and you plan round that
Or plan around bad packs/skips
Depending on what your going for
But if your pulling routes from someone else your gonna have to just learn it
charred fable
anyone good with trinkets? i got 4 about the same ilvl and not sure which would be better
sturdy sable
Id just sim them
charred fable
didnt think simming does anything for survivability tho
sturdy sable
What trinkets are they
charred fable
slimy consumptive organ, gluttonous spike, blood-spattered scale, and bladedancers armor kit
sturdy sable
Scale and spikes
Keep organ if you need the stam
Dunk armor kit its trash
Its even got its own emote
sturdy sable
Np
latent tusk
just got the wall! goes on back right?
tardy parcel
shoulders if possible
steel mauve
Shoulders for bis gearing, has a higher stat budget
void kite
are there any mythic+ websites that have the correct affixes?
tanknotes and mythictrap show weird ones
deft sapphire
is the goto talents for low keys unstoppable + am?
or is ravager still better for burst
jagged pier
ravager
pure sun
Curious, do y'all prefer getting around 50% vers with full buffs or just max stamming, we run double prot and I like stam but he runs vers, whatcha guys think is better?
jagged pier
haste
vers is not as good as haste
honestly its ilvl >>>> haste >>>> vers>=crit>mastery
tardy parcel
it's not really a big deal at all, but having the little group of slimes before the first boss in Plaguefall bolster each other is borderline insulting
pastel sleet
I’m getting trucked by the second pack in DoS. What do?
feral gulch
ahh yes that pack, my favourite pack in the game
timber ore
Pop all CD get in get agro and kite
pastel sleet
So it’s not just me
pastel sleet
I have as well.. it hurts so bad
timber ore
If you have a hunter or rouge for threath helps a lot
pastel sleet
Best thing in the world is when sham uses earth ele on pull.
What about the pack right before second boss in spires? I save the dungeon spear for it but... it’s so hard to control. Any tips. Wiped us on an 11.
drifting jolt
213 gluttonous spike or 184 anima field emitter or 184 slimy consumptive organ?
for raid
any resources that go over how good trinkets are for prot warriors?
chilly brook
Theres two resources
- raidbots
- bloodmallet
But likely your 213 gluttonous spike and and 184 anima emitter are the two you're gonna wanna run
drifting sky
Is there a good way of simming for mythic plus?
Or is using judgement better in terms of stat weights
jagged pier
if its stats you want, ilvl >>> haste > vers >=crit > mastery,
but all those last stats are pretty much equal.
that being said your survivability or damage or what ever your aiming for comes from play not stats
drifting sky
Thanks yeh I’ve come to realize being able to do mechanics or those small dodges is way better
jaunty vector
hows prot feel this week?
chilly brook
Is there a good way of simming for mythic plus?
Something akin to patchwerk 1 minute, 90 second and 30 second sims sith like 5 targets iirc?
Although your stat weights aren't really going to change
Like you're only going to sim for damage
And even then it likely won't actually matter
dusky mica
Has anyone tried Raidbots for Prot DPS? I assume so. Does it not tell you that mastery is by far and away your best secondary?
chilly brook
Sure
But that's just pure DPS
It's almost like there's more to a tank than pure DPS
jagged pier
hc or normal?
lavish oracle
Anyone have a clickable weak aura for kyrian phial when you run out?
ember inlet
@echo wigeon the only problem there is when you wana jump to portals and you are turning your back to sword/boss
so try to pop DS there
or ask for a external save
barkskin is quite good, has low CD and it is just gets the job done on those transmissions
glass mural
ember inlet
also when you taunt denathrius, he tends to shadowstep behind you, so keep that in mind 🙂
placid oar
Hi guys, I was asking in the arms channel on Kyrian dps. I am hoping my fellow warrior tanks can give me advice on Ven tanks.
Am I actually gimping my chances of doing higher keys if I go Ven or should I stick to Kyrian as a tank?
dense echo
any recommendation about professions?
placid oar
any recommendation about professions?
I’m not sure Magges but I personally go alchemy for the added duration on flasks and engineering for the brez since I mostly pug.
I think there isn’t any real impact to game play for professions
thorn nacelle
I was Venth for the first week. Kyrians potion is just so dam handy. I mean the buffed version of Spear is great for rage and deeps, but I would go NF if they removed my little owl buddy’s juice
violet tundra
Hi guys, I was asking in the arms channel on Kyrian dps. I am hoping my fellow w...
https://raider.io/characters/eu/tarren-mill/Revves Tanks timed 15s as Venthyr. So even if you're tanking for Echo, it doesnt matter if you are Kyrian, NF or Venthyr. Im sure if he were Necrolord he'd do the exact same keys. It doesn't actually matter.
chilly brook
@violet tundra hes likely main spec dps, @placid oar you can run venthyr but if you're a tank why would you it's not doing you any favors. You can do 15s without a covenant but again why would you choose to be suboptimal. Kyrian/NF are the only real options for prot.
Its literally the definition of just because you can doesnt mean you should.
violet tundra
You can see he has tanked those runs. Obviously he is venth because its optimal for when he has to dps in raid, because there the choice actually matters
chilly brook
Yes I'm aware he has tanked them
A lot of classes that can tank have been tanking for WF gearing
This isn't something new
And the choice still matters in m+
violet tundra
But for tanking it simply isnt a big deal which covenant you are , and telling people kyrian/nf are "the only real choice" for prot is disingenuous at best
chilly brook
Condemn is doing you no favors in m+
Its not disingenuous
Literally you're cutting out huge rage generation and extra damage by not being either of the two listed
strong forum
If you main prot and your goal is optimal performance, you simply play kyrian, with NF only falling short because of lack of potion.
chilly brook
Not to mention actual useful tank stuff...
strong forum
There's no denying that
violet tundra
But realistically it wont make or break your keys. Its optimal sure, but someone comes in here asking if you can still tank m+ as venthyr
strong forum
Playing venthyr/necro won't stop you from doing X content
violet tundra
answering "no you gotta be angelbro" just isnt true
strong forum
Nobody said that
chilly brook
I think you need to reread my comment
strong forum
He asked if he's gimping himself for higher keys by playing venthyr
chilly brook
Which he is
strong forum
And the answer is: in the long run yes, but for 15s its not relevant
Nothing matters for 15s except having good gear and a good group
Well.. People showed last week you don't even need gear for 15s
violet tundra
Griff you literally said "kyrian/NF are the only options for protection"
wild monolith
Broken classes make up for lack of gear
dense umbra
is the legendary ring better than Wall/Thunderlord?!
not sure I want bladestorm/reckless
strong forum
is the legendary ring better than Wall/Thunderlord?!
No
chilly brook
Griff you literally said "kyrian/NF are the only options for protection"
Smh its not like I didn't say you can play Venthyr prot a sentence earlier
strong forum
Signet is terrible for prot warri
dense umbra
I thought so, I had it in torghast and wasn't too fussed
chilly brook
And the exact quote is that "Kyrian/NF are the only real options for prot"
Which isn't wrong, if you're running Venthyr you might as well be necrolord at least your team might get something out of that
violet tundra
I agree my statement couldve been more nuanced, but in the end I think its important for people to realize that their covenant choice isnt what decides if they can do a +15 or not
chilly brook
Telling people to play anything other than Kyrian/NF if they aren't multirole players is the equivalent of telling them to play without UF in BFA
violet tundra
Well yeah but I mean he was asking in arms channel about kyrian, so I figured
chilly brook
You can, but just because you can doesn't mean you should
violet tundra
he plays arms as well
dense umbra
Any good resources to learn paths for M+ , higher keys.
I'm using windows sticky notes to work out % and best path...must be better way
wild monolith
Dratnos
violet tundra
Download Mythic Dungeon Tools addon
dense umbra
ty and ty
chilly brook
Raider.io has weekly routes typically from Dratnos but it also has a database of routes that anyone can upload iirc
And you can directly import the routes into MDT
violet tundra
You would imagine you should be able to export an MDT route from a warcraftlogs M+ log. You can see the entire run on replay
dense umbra
thank you!
lavish oracle
I think Trell's been making routes recently too
or at least he did some basic ones for week 1
dense umbra
ive copied all of dratnos ones now.
placid oar
Its literally the definition of just because you can doesnt mean you should.
Sry was at dinner with family. Ah I see, thank you Griff.
I swapped to tank main this expansion since my main source of gearing is M+ and I stopped raiding due to work. Am very casual now but i still enjoy doing harder content hence why I was wondering whether I could go Tank as Ven if I hope to do high keys in the future.
Really appreciate the feedback 😄
steady fiber
Hi, guys in m+ i should give bigger prio to use shield block or more ignore pain ? vs melee stuff (bosses etc)
muted pendant
SB
Nothing better against physical dmg
Pressing IP too often/early can make u rage starved and you won’t have enough rage for the SB when you should - that’s bad and you don’t wanna waste your SW or LS for a situation like that
lavish oracle
SB basically any time you're taking physical damage like at all which is gonna be most of the time in M+
IP if you're taking only magic damage or if you have extra rage to dump and need extra survivability
If you don't need the extra survivability you can dump rage into revenge instead
nova rover
Wall or Thunderlord for legendaries? Mostly do keys but do raid heroic raids
muted pendant
I’m doing both r2 and change depending on affixes/dungeon or if I raid
nova rover
I was thinking of that but will have enough for 1 at level 2
muted pendant
Wall in DoS is way better for me than TL. Raid only Wall
That’s okay, you will want the effect. Doesn’t really matter if it’s 190 or 210
nova rover
roger that
steady fiber
it's better to use Bigwigs or dbm ? :/
undone sun
personal preference
nova vector
@muted pendant Thanks for that answer. I am using Thunderlord atm but just picked up The Wall memory and was deciding on if I should go TL rank 2 or get Wall r1 so that I can swap them out based on content
nova vector
Long term it will prob be M+. Right now my guild is doing some normal and heroic raid runs but Franklin, it’s tough haha
Our guild is, I think, 6/10 normal. Server best is 7/10 normal so yeah, that’s what I’m working with
dense pivot
Benji do be like that
nova vector
Frankly, not Franklin
west cave
what slot are people generally crafting the wall in?
sweet summit
shoulders
strong forum
100% shoulders
median badge
any idea when you'll be able to slot 2 legendaries?
west cave
great thanks 🙂
sweet summit
blizzard hasnt said anything so we dont even know 100% if we will ever or not, fast
median badge
ah
my dps as prot in mythics is awful, I'm always pulling around 1.8k to 2k and I have no idea what I'm doing wrong
my ilvl is 196
jade axle
Which Venthyr Soul Conduits would you go for as a Prot Warr?
median badge
iirc its nadia and show of force
jade axle
Thanks
grim axle
how bad is venthyr for prot?
median badge
then brutal vitality but I prefer the shockwave CD reduction
hallow phoenix
Shockwave CDR OP
median badge
I don't think it's that venthyr is bad more that kyrian is just so good
grim axle
well its mostly for offspeccing to prot when u main arms
jade axle
I picked kyrian but was gonna swap to venthyr since I dont have a guild to tank for (nor the time while still playing classic) so id be fluttering between tanking and dpsing mythics
median badge
yeah my guild made me Arms, already had 2 tanks
which I don't mind, dps feels more fun in raids anyway
so pretty glad I picked venthyr despite it being not great for prot
I feel like condemn works okay for a ST opener too
jade axle
Just not a fan of Kyrian style
I won't be playing hardcore enough for it to matter i suppose
kindred warren
If only necro lords didn’t suck
tardy parcel
my dps as prot in mythics is awful, I'm always pulling around 1.8k to 2k and I h...
Are you using Revenge enough...? What level keystones are you running?
open monolith
Overhead Slash now only strikes her primary target and its damage has been reduced by 40%. The tooltip will be updated in a future patch.
Well Kintara just became a joke
median badge
I feel like I'm running revenge too much
I'm doing +4 to +7 and finding myself kiting a lot
formal river
The solution to most problem is work hard to find a a good guild.
Which is easier said than done for sure.
median badge
yeah but I'm one of those assholes who's got friends who play and enjoy doing it with them even if they're the worst
formal river
Ahh gotcha. Well that's great as well.
Fun in a different way
All my friends are solely classic players. I found my current guild by putting up a profile on guildsofwow
open monolith
maybe the better solution, then, is to coach your friends
give em advice on how to be better.
like, "Hey friend, you are garbage, you would be less garbage if you used your interrupt ability on this specific ability. To help, you can focus this enemy and make a focus interrupt macro!"
median badge
I loved classic but once we killed rag I took a step back
open monolith
or, "Hey friend, your DPS gives me literal cancer. I am currently in chemo getting treated, please go read a guide and practice on a dummy!"
you know, friendly constructive stuff
median badge
hahahahaha I might use these
open monolith
this is me at the beginning of every dungeon
"Hey josh, you know that focus misdirect macro you have?"
"yeah"
"did you focus me yet?"
"No"
"you should focus me now"
"okay"
literally. every. dungeon.
dense pivot
noob play, you type in tanks name in the macro at the start of the dungeon and focus caster mobs 🙂
weird letterers owned tho
ah I guess you can copy paste
open monolith
i honestly didn't know you could do player specific macros
hallow phoenix
Couldn't you also just [@party1] and make the tank lead
dense pivot
lemme check docs, I remember doing that years ago on my rogue
median badge
some people literally just refuse to improve though
assume that it's beyond their reach and whatever level they're at now is where they'll stay
is DPS easier than tanking in M+?
hallow phoenix
Depends on the level of play and what type of utility you bring
Some dps have a lot of jobs to do
Some are literally just dps bots
formal river
You could also join a heroic guild as socials.
median badge
are you excited for the amazon show btw
formal river
Most guilds like then to keep guild chat active and for m+ fillers
median badge
yeah thats good advice, maybe next expansion tho
open monolith
is DPS easier than tanking in M+?
In this expansion, it certainly feels like it. Normally tanking is braindead and by far the easiest role, but it feels a LOT tougher to stay alive in Shadowlands than in the past.
median badge
is that not just a case of being used to overgearing at the end of an expansion
median badge
are dungeons rebalanced every season?
open monolith
and even at the beginning of it, it didn't feel anywhere near as hard as this expansion does
i had pugged a +15 on the second week with no issues in legion
dense pivot
dungeons are "buffed" every season yeah
open monolith
that's not happening this time ;p
median badge
it's a good thing though, added difficulty?
although kiting feels kinda like a dumb thing
dense pivot
well, it's okay, it allows to buff gear from them too and people can catch up
open monolith
on the one hand, having to pay attention to aggro is something I enjoy
it adds complexity and an element of skill that i have missed
median badge
aggro is harder to keep this time around?
dense pivot
as long as it's not too vanilla like lol
open monolith
on the other, kiting feels bad. It feels REALLY bad. I understand it's super needed on really high keys, but I don't think it should be needed at low keys. Fortified week felt awful
dense pivot
because there you have to sweat to keep aggro from pumper dps
open monolith
Aggro is a bit harder to hold onto right now, mainly at the beginning of an AOE pack
but it's not like, gigahard
dense pivot
or they have to stop, and having to stop is not fun for them at all
open monolith
just something you actually need to watch
my bigger issue is mostly with the difficulty of some trash in some dungeons on fortified
it feels like they gave every other mob a super important ability to interrupt
which doesn't really matter for organized group play
but for pugs it makes m+ a LOT harder than previous expansions
dense pivot
I just kick everything atm, sometimes save kick for long casts because they look dangerous, should probably read a guide :p
open monolith
there are some days when I wish I had just stuck with being a DPS
though I do love how quickly I find groups these days 🙂
I'm casually leveling my SV hunter on the side
median badge
yeah I have an ideal mix of tanking M+ and DPSing in raids
open monolith
god I love that spec
safe sluice
open monolith
tanking in the raid is still a total snoozefest
our responsibilities are never more than "taunt now" and "take the boss here"
open monolith
it's so funny how many people get "anxiety"(stop overusing this word for fuck's sake) about tanking
formal river
I'm ok with it though. I can watch the figntt
open monolith
it's literally just "taunt now" and "stand here" in raids lol
formal river
And see where people fuck up
dense pivot
people just don't like to fuck up in front of 19 other people
when dps fuck ups no one cares
open monolith
when DPS fucks up you fail the fight
P.S. for those of you who have pugged Council successfully, what order are you using?
formal river
Lady first stavros last
open monolith
I find Frieda first / Stavros last to be WAY too hard of a dps check for your average pugstar
formal river
Yeah we had to rotate out some dps
open monolith
I am going to start doing Nikklaus / Stavros / Frieda
that one isn't a giga dps check
Frieda last is just "tanks need to time swap perfectly"
which is easy
Nikklaus first gets rid of the adds which DPS struggle to handle. Stavros second removes the gigadps check in 3rd phase
and believe it or not, interrupting volley has never been a problem in my pugs
it's always shit dps is the problem
formal river
Last time I did it we had a pug guardian druid pulling 183 dps.
I don't know how that is possible
open monolith
lmao he was auto attacking?
formal river
For two whole phases.
dense pivot
is that HC?
open monolith
well iti's possible that he just wasn't using damage abilities while tanking Stavros off to the side
which makes sense
because it is pointless
the damage is healed back
it's like when I catch DPS doing their AOE rotations on that fight
I yell at them for being morons
formal river
It was second phase too
So he had the swap to dps.
Yeah you have to break down details in that fight
We had a lock and priest dotting up everything
open monolith
I really think Frieda last is going to be the most pug-friendly
you don't really find many super-shit-tier-but-also-geared-tanks these days
so if you get a high ilvl tank in your party, you know he is probably halfway decent
and Frieda last is a tank check
signal plover
frieda > stavros > nik was izzi
open monolith
idk what nik's last phase is
signal plover
but we have lots of druid/hunter soothers
signal plover
stav last is a big dps check tbh
open monolith
Stav last is definitely great in agroup with good DPS
but the DPS check is too high for most pugs
signal plover
and lots of space denial with a very rough overlap
open monolith
so it isn't realistic in your average pug group
not until we see, "The health of Dancing Fools has been reduced by 40%" lol
What is Nik's final ability?
signal plover
there's a big boi add that needs to be tanked and killed off
and add deaths enrage nearby adds
open monolith
oh yeah, no thanks
signal plover
they're both crazy manageable
open monolith
Nikk > Stav > Frieda
signal plover
lol
open monolith
no adds past 1st phase, Stavros 2nd ability is easy, so is Frieda's
and Frieda's final ability is just a well-timed tank swap
EZ
if I had a constant group of good DPS, i'd probably go Nikk > Frieda > Stavros or Frieda > Nikk > Stavros
open monolith
then you should be able to do it Easy
signal plover
because of the overlaps
open monolith
oh yikes
and you pulled him into the middle, too?
also what do you mean overlaps
signal plover
the paiired dance overlaps with dancing fools add
open monolith
yeah.
signal plover
it's doable just a LOT more risk
like...nik's last phase is a total joke if you have like
4 soothes
i hven't looked at frieda last but it's prolly better than stavros
wispy tapir
signal plover
...
the point is you can't since you have to be in the tiny space for the add kill
i think the wowhead written guide alrdy changed their prios because of it
signal plover
ah
open monolith
Frieda phase 2 is AOEs on everyone
so have to spread
Frieda phase 3 is a tank nuke that hits 4 times, increasing in damage each tick, so you have to taunt after the 2nd hit
crisp dragon
We did Frieda second, and that seemed easier
signal plover
stavros > frieda > nik would also be pretty good i think
open monolith
a bunch of posts on reddit (lol) say the taunt swapping on Frieda last isn't actually working
I'll give it the old college try
sick sentinel
prot warrior STONKS are on the rise if limit wins wf with a prot war tank
buy in NOW boys
sterile moss
Main reason I'm cheering for Limit, lol
strong forum
saem tbh
signal plover
watching lightee play pwarr on sludge was dope
looked super smooth
his SB recharge is 10ish seconds so the anticipated scaling is def there 🙂
signal plover
was def not just during lust but im goin roughly off his UI
sick sentinel
Well, it's super cheese but I just did 10 +2 +3 spire runs
At least have option of not boots tues probably try a higher key today
open monolith
I don't think people realize that Limit isn't using a prot warrior because it is good lol
Limit is using prot warrior because DPS warriors are bad, but you still need battle shout and rally is helpful
strong forum
lightee also thinks brew is trash
open monolith
same reason they are using VDH - havoc is bad but the magic damage debuff is mandatory
strong forum
and WW is much better
sick sentinel
Rally is a fucking god send and has saved many many keys from doom
onyx matrix
Would you guys choose kleia over pelagos?
onyx matrix
😂
open monolith
they ruined her only good ability by adding the 1 minute debuff that makes it so you can't gain stacks after vigilant strikes go off
open monolith
yooo have you guys heard of popdog? it's a site that collects all the various streaming sites into one, with no ads ever. literally been watching the WF race for days on this site and haven't had a single ad (and it connects to twitch so you can still chat if that is something you want in life)
signal plover
man i rly fuckin hate the "they're using pwarr because of buff hurr durr" argument. First off, they've had an arms warr on multiple boss kills. Second off, the argument clearly misses the point which is that pwarr is a solid enough tank to do WF content (which I think most of us in here knew) and helps correct community misconception
open monolith
it's... not an argument
it's literally the reason they are using it
they have said as much multiple times
signal plover
read the second half of the statement
open monolith
I think the bigger point is all the tanks are capable of doing WF content because tank damage is never the mitigating factor
arms warriors have only been included in fights where execute damage is needed to take care of important adds or tough low-hp boss phases (such as generals, currently, two of the adds need to die quickly when at 30% hp)
signal plover
i kno
open monolith
Prot warrior is there because battle shout is literally required.
signal plover
my point is it's still good for pwarr community perception
open monolith
like, you hate the argument, but it's not an argument... it's a fact.
yeah, that's fine that it is, but it is misguided perception lol
pwarr being good in the raid doesn't make it better for m+
signal plover
kek k
open monolith
like, hooooray people will feel better about pwarr
but they are wrong for WHY they think it is good
just like they are wrong for why they THINK it is bad
signal plover
i know
dense pivot
tl;dr: |prot_power - any_tank_power| <<<< |garbo_dps_warr_power - best_dps_power|
signal plover
but this is the discussion you only get to have when you discuss the situation in a pwarr discord, not when you get denied for a pug group when johnny +7 watched too many tier lists
open monolith
lol, yes agree.
signal plover
that same dude is dumb enough to get swayed by limit using pwarr in wf prog
aka
pwarr = beeg winnar
open monolith
the positive side of this is that many mouth breathing hurr-durrs will watch the stream of world first, see a prot warr, and go "OH PROT WARR IS GOOD YAY I WILL INVITE THEM NOW"
but the fact remains: they aren't using Prot warr because they think it is a better tank than any of the others.
hopefully the general public isn't that smart
signal plover
it's just a good thing to confirm our typical stance in here that 1, tank balance is in a good enough spot that other factors determine your raid tank pick and 2. fukka all da h8ers
open monolith
i will agree with that statement
Pwarr is a better tank than arms or fury is a dps
and you need that battleshout, baby
i've been getting a LOT more recruitment attempts since the WF race started lol
"hey we need a warrior.... do you want to join x guild"
formal river
Arms is top tier on some fights. Cleave is insane.
open monolith
and the answer is always: no, i'm not switching servers, and your raid times don't match the ones i posted in my LF guild post. go away
dense pivot
Arms is top tier on some fights. Cleave is insane.
yeah, it's a curse, I believe arms is going to stay super low on ST due to this, they won't dare to buff it and not touch cleave
formal river
My alt frost dk plays totally for aesthetics so I went night far because the d&d looks cool
And it makes them top tier 2 target kind of like arms
7k cleaving oblits makes me feel like arms.
dense pivot
oh nice atrocity in the game rn
open monolith
Does Ember Blast leave behind a pool of smoldering remnants?
lapis bay
Does anyone know why Darkeewar from Limit favors mastery over haste? https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/illidan/Darkeewar
I thought haste was our best stay
*stat
sick sentinel
i'm going to try out https://www.wowhead.com/spell=310495/dimensional-shifter#recipes today
go invisible and pull from a different area, see how it works lol
open monolith
Haste is our best defensive stat
World first guilds value dps more than defensive ability since their healers and tanks aren't shit
Mastery gives attack power , so that makes sense
muted pendant
Does Ember Blast leave behind a pool of smoldering remnants?
Yes but you can spell reflect the blast
open monolith
does spell reflecting the blast negatively impact the fact that you're "soaking"?
lapis bay
World first guilds value dps more than defensive ability since their healers and...
Hmm if the case, wouldn’t he have taken Anger Management over Bolster?
open monolith
not necessarily
a talent is significantly more impactful than a few haste or mastery here or there
32 haste vs 32 mastery will not be the difference between living or dying while tanking mythic sludgefist
but Bolster vs AM may
vestal cypress
I mean he also running ITF, so he would have +10% more haste than the armory page
grizzled skiff
Mastery increases %dmg reduction of blocks, and therefore raises the baseline Dr value of active mitigation.
On top of attack power
grim axle
i was reading wowhead and it was saying that execute is worth using as a rage dump at 2 targets over revenge. is this still true if you have condemn?
dense pivot
well, if condemn is a better execute, with actual damage mitigation, so yes
open monolith
still revenge
grim axle
ok cool ty
vast pike
how much does your revenge hit
open monolith
anyone do Layer 8 Upper Reaches after the Torghast nerf? is it doable again?
vast pike
per target
vast pike
anyone do Layer 8 Upper Reaches after the Torghast nerf? is it doable again?
yes did both layer 8 last night
open monolith
nice. I was able to do fractured halls pre-nerf with no issues
vast pike
its significantly easier
open monolith
upper reaches was a totally different animal
i got to the last boss ONCE, and couldn't get him past 50% before his shields got too big
vast pike
You running solo?
open monolith
yeah
I tried it in a group a couple of times (pre-nerf) and the floor bosses were so overtuned we couldn't even get past the casters
haven't tried since the nerf yet
topaz ember
Yea early on I made a group and. We wiped on the first pack. It was much easier solo
Just have to explore the floors to get the most powers
vast pike
From what I have seen, party member scaling is ridiculous...so I stick to solo or 2 man groups for torghast
sick sentinel
do you have to do both torghasts each week for most SA
vast pike
Yes, highest layer on both
sick sentinel
crap, okay
open monolith
upper reaches is a slog because there are very few normal enemies, it's all elites
but now that they increased the anima drop rate, it is actually worth clearing the floors
you can get like 30+ powers by floor 6
sick sentinel
to beat upper reaches i had to get the execute talent
and farm it one mob after another
even tho im kyrian
for layer 8
execute talent + no rage cost
strong forum
layer 8 was a walk in the park
open monolith
sounds like it is back to easy-mode with the nerf, which makes me happy
It went from fun to really really unfair and stupid back to fun
craggy harness
well, i dunno, it was hard, but ... I'm trying to figure out why it was unfair that we couldn't do top levels this early
especially with the minimal soul ash they gave compared to lesser
oh well, instant gratification i guess
dense pivot
yeah nerf was super big
it was just very little powers at the start, huge damage and big hp pools, therefore you needed very specific powers and boss order
cloud wind
ye all the lumbering elites were destroying me when they made torghast harder, did l8 of one side, came back after nerf did the other l8 side and it was way more fun, got more good power drops and the casters werent aids anymore
dense pivot
and if you mean like, why not have super hard level 8 and people gearing up do it/abusing group play or fishing for layouts and powers, Idk, it would be fine to me
cloud wind
the only way they can make it hard is if its a one time challenge mode for a mog. noone wants to waste hours in torghast for ash
craggy harness
i think surprisingly i agreed with the suggestion i heard was that if there was just one layer a week
the time spent wouldn't be bad
feeling you had to do both was where things kind of went sidewise
dense pivot
yeah, well I can understand both sides, you either make level 8 super rewarding and make people try hard, or keep it almost not rewarding (like 40 ash) and tell people "well if you don't like it you won't miss much"
craggy harness
sorry, not one layer, one ... torghast area?
cloud wind
eh that second option never works
craggy harness
what do they call them
cloud wind
people will always feel bad not doing it
and then torghast will be a failure like islands , warfront ect
onyx matrix
Hey guys is it still doable to do thorgast solo as a prot warr?
cloud wind
ye its real easy now with nerfs
onyx matrix
Lol nice
cloud wind
whenever u see one of the powers like do acid dmg, frost dmg, arcane ect, get those they are way stronger than they sound
onyx matrix
xD
craggy harness
stupid critical shot
cloud wind
and shield slam stuff ezpz
cloud wind
i love that shield slam whirlwind power + ww healing
craggy harness
so many powers drop now too
cloud wind
then some of the magic dmg ones
craggy harness
you're guaranteed to get a good combo, if not two
cloud wind
both 8, one i did prenerf
sick sentinel
is indelible victory additive or replacement
drifting sky
Pre nerf
open monolith
I use the luxthos WA for warrior timers / IP / rage etc
SL dungeons WA is good for alerts if you need them
sick sentinel
says it heals for X% over Y seconds, so does that mean i VR, it heals and then heals over time, or it hits and i get a buff that i heal X% over Y seconds but no intial heal
open monolith
it doesn't replace it
you get your normal % health heal
- 200% of the damage you dealt with it over 8 seconds
(I assume, based on the way it its worded)
timber nest
Anyone got a mdt pasta for necrotic wake? ive failed the last 2 keys ive done t here because people cant do first boss
junior jolt
anyone done a few 14-15s yet as prot war
worn gulch
what is the best shieldblock uptime overall in m+?
sweet summit
raw uptime isnt important
whats important is % blocked hits and blocking blockable "tank busters"
dense pivot
time based uptime is so easy to maximize these days, just press SB all the time, it adds up anyway, right?
sweet summit
it does, but that doesnt mean its a good idea
dense pivot
yeah I understand
open monolith
how would an MDT pasta help groups not fail on the first boss
if you're failing on the first boss it's because A) your group isn't baiting the heaving retch to not hit the group and/or B) your group isn't slowing / focusing down the adds
(or the DPS is just really low and doodoo)
worn gulch
@sweet summit is there a way to see the % of blocked hits in details`?
sweet summit
nah, u need logs
dense umbra
what kind of DPS is expected now? whats a good value? 2k? 2.5k?
open monolith
3k is good dps
anything above 3.5k is great dps
anything above 4k is amazing dps
anything above 5k is mythic geared WF guild shit
(ST)
dense umbra
i also had this issue on plaguefall with first boss, checked meters and i'm 3rd on DPS with 1 and 2 doing 2.2k
obviously we didnt kill the thing
other runs (7+) - boss is down easily.
worn gulch
sad, So i need to log the m+ runs
steep bone
tropic drum
what arent prot warriors in a bad spot rn
sweet summit
compared to BFA, i guess
molten wing
We’re capable, but not the best.
open monolith
so like, let's brainstorm here
Blizzard decides, "You know what? Fortified and Tyrannical suck. We're removing them because they are too hard to balance properly and aren't interesting or fun."
what do they replace them with? Just another one of the pre-existing modifiers? Something new?
How would Bursting, Storming, Volcanic feel? Better or worse than having a fortified or tyrannical in there? more interesting or fun / less?
sweet summit
storming and fun does not work out in the same sentence
unless you say "storming is not fun"
open monolith
lol I know, storming is a bit cancerous
buuuuut i'd rather have storming than fortified literally any day of the week
sweet summit
wat
open monolith
whoa! from where?
sweet summit
poggies
strong forum
grinded arena for 8hrs
strong forum
open monolith
I'm shocked that PvP gear goes so high
strong forum
cloak is also from pvp now
strong forum
yes
m+ gearing is dead
if i pushed more
i could make the shield 226
and cloak
open monolith
?????? wtf
open monolith
isn't that higher than mythic raid?
sweet summit
yes
open monolith
😐
whatever. I hate PvP. No feeling of FOMO
but disappointment at a stupid decision, in my very biased opinion
strong forum
pvp is what kept me playing this game for 14 years
open monolith
I have never enjoyed WoW PvP
open monolith
I used to be.
Then I started to get REAL mad when I lost in HOTS and Overwatch
and I didn't like who I was when I lost
so I stopped playing competitive PvP games entirely
formal river
I liked pvp a lot through wrath...
strong forum
i play to be better than others, thats why i dont enjoy single player games, cuz the thing is supposed to be beaten and scaled around
and scripted
formal river
I haven't played retail in so long there's a giant learning curve now
I have no idea what other classes kits entail
It's like starting LoL right now.
open monolith
I just like games where the numbers go up
gimme that dopamine hit when the numbers go up
My dream game is like.... Armored Core in an MMORPG environment or some shit.
formal river
Lol I hate when numbers go up
open monolith
(Armored Core is the good game series that From Software was known for before they started churning out these stupid souls games)
formal river
I know it's in vogue now but they stop meaning anything
Armored Core is great and so is the souls series:)
open monolith
yeah but if the numbers don't go up.... like....
how do you know you're getting stronger?
the numbers must go up
open monolith
oh yeah, for sure, I love stat squishes
I didn't like it when the numbers got meaninglessly inflated.
undone jacinth
I feel like a lot of the top pvpers hate pve so I don't mind too much
and vice versa
nimble drift
i play to be better than others, thats why i dont enjoy single player games, cuz...
Do you play arms in pvp
formal river
Pvp for me died in BC, lol.
strong forum
obv arms
nimble drift
2s or 3s
formal river
Fury is lols
open monolith
I started hating PvP when healers became untouchable gods and every match takes 25 minutes waiting for someone to OOM or to make a tiny mistake somewhere
though, as I understand it, that isn't the case in SL
nimble drift
People are always looking for someone that can afk at shrine, spin the node, while spamming chat
formal river
@open monolith you'll love it right now.
Bursty as fuck
Double dps are doing fantastic
strong forum
1 thing though
nimble drift
Ya if I make a dps itll be a ret pally. In my experience so far the only thing that has caught me off guard with their burst is a ret
open monolith
which apparently already makes me a shitter
nimble drift
Leaper?
nimble drift
I'm thinking of making leaper for wsg lol
open monolith
is 2 mortal strikes during bladestorm really that impactful?
strong forum
its huge
open monolith
I guess I haven't played Arms in long enough to know how big mortal strike is
strong forum
in pve its shit
in pvp, you double your bladestorm damage
and you can sweeping strike it
open monolith
that's silly
strong forum
so you hit 4 mortal strikes
open monolith
is that not also their best PvE legendary?
strong forum
this was me soloing 3 people inside bladestorm
open monolith
or do they use signet, too
strong forum
nimble drift
I wonder which leggo is best for prot bgs
open monolith
naisu
strong forum
probably leaper
sweet summit
only shows that for guildies tho
open monolith
the best leggo for prot BGs is to switch to arms and use Unhinged, apparently
sweet summit
the nickname
strong forum
ye
open monolith
aww only guildies? D:
nimble drift
Na for bgs you need someone to hold the node
For a loooong time
Prot is great at that
I got 50 macros to call incs to different spots on different bg maps lol
open monolith
gross
open monolith
i have 2 macros. Cursor targeted ravager and spear
formal river
That's what I did while leveling my BDK though bgs
nimble drift
Click a button, call inc, pop defensive, collect rating
formal river
Just setup camp and spun a flag
nimble drift
At first I didnt like it till I realized I can afk climb bg ladder
Because people are desperate for high ilvl tanks who want to sit on a node
formal river
On my warrior I prefer running around condemning people
timber nest
i love getting half way through a dungeon and the two brazilians in the group ninja leave the group for no reason
RIP +8 key
open monolith
Azralon?
nimble drift
I nvr do my keys with randoms
timber nest
Ragnaros
nimble drift
I'll pug high keys but my +10 I save for guildies or friends
open monolith
rag is spanish, not portugese
timber nest
i dont have a guild to do keys with
open monolith
but, that aside
never group with ragnaros
in as many years as that server has existed, I have had exactly one positive experience with any player from that server
and it was like, this week, with a ret pally that completely dumpstered the meters in a way that was nothing short of incredibly impressive
craggy harness
i don't usually -- use the word dumpster with the word positive
open monolith
context matters.
dumpstered the meters meaning he put everyone else in the dumpster by comparison
to get dumpstered is to get severely beaten
to dumpster is to beat severely
craggy harness
Its so close that I had to ask to be sure lol
open monolith
what do you put in a dumpster
garbage
throwing away the garbage
right?
I can't be the only one who uses dumpster in that context
craggy harness
Don't need to explain, I just wasn't convinced on the outset you didn't mean that he was the dumpster
open monolith
lol
well, there was also the context of me saying he was the only positive experience :p
craggy harness
"he can't possibly be THAT high on this guy"
open monolith
seriously though, nothing against the region, language, etc about Ragnaros. I don't know what it is about that server, but the VAST majority of players from that server are beyond terribad
you know it's bad when every single pug raid group or whatever that I invite into discord says the same thing "yo don't invite that guy, he's from rag"
craggy harness
Random deflection... how high up did they get on the cutting edge honor roll?
open monolith
not a clue.
timber nest
@open monolith finally got a response from the pair. They said they dont do "free carries" after the hunter died twice to the slimes in the mecha-gnome wing
twice
sick sentinel
how does the +10 mechanic work
you kill shit and then a big thing eventually spawns on you and tries to kill you and if you kill it you become gods?
open monolith
every 20% enemy forces a big red spooky ghost spawns
the big red spooky ghost pulses AOE damage and also puts a thing on people that makes them shoot 4 red projectiles in cardinal directions
once you kill said spooky ghost, you all get a 1 minute buff that makes your PPs very swole
so the best thing you can do is try to time it so you reach 20% 40% 60% etc right before a boss
then use your big PP buff on the boss
sick sentinel
is the spooky ghost a MF'r wipe the group easy type dude?
open monolith
if your group is like, omega bad?
yeah
otherwise, no
if you spawn him at a REALLY BAD TIME in the middle of a big pull? yeah
open monolith
spires is one of the hardest dungeons in the game, imo
they just nerfed the 1st boss which makes her less of an issue on tyrannical, but the 2nd boss is a HUGE filter for bad groups and bad dps
and on fortified week, ALL of the trash in that dungeon is pure unmitigated cancer
however, the dungeon also has a very forgiving timer
we timed it with 22 deaths on a +8 last week, lol
sick sentinel
its volcanic and it shoots you in the air, but for half damage on 7s i think yeah
still same animation on floor?
open monolith
what?
nimble drift
I lost a +10 spires
Because a hunter stood outside the zone on 2nd boss
And reset it at 40%
nimble drift
Needless to say I was fuming lol
open monolith
did you at least get completion?
open monolith
well
your dps friends are assholes
and they don't deserve the completion if they are going to treat people like that 🙂
hopefully you're better than that.
sick sentinel
that tornadoe affix is the pug destroyer
dense umbra
ye definitely
sick sentinel
open monolith
the best thing you can do to make sure nobody gets tornadoed
is to move the group.
don't sit there and make the DPS twirl around
just kite back so the mobs aren't near the tornadoes anymore (when you have the room to do so)
strong forum
god having this shield is OP
i take 0 dmg
mists 12+2
easy
(might also just be because fort is gone)
sick sentinel
Anyone got a weak aura for ignore pain that doesn't pop up an error window
strong forum
the one from #268491842637660160 works for me 🤷♂️
sick sentinel
god having this shield is OP
What shield?
grand drum
Whats the armor and block value