si
#protection
strong forum
sweet summit
aye
solemn haven
Yo i got a general question if anybody got time to answer real fast. I was looking at the TMI tank ranking, and i noticed warrior isn't on there. How is protection warrior faring compared to paladin and monk?
sweet summit
i dont know what that is
strong forum
tmi?
sweet summit
warrior is good, dont worry
strong forum
defensively all tanks are good
solemn haven
its a index used to determine how much damage a tank averagely sustains per second. Its basically used to show how much damage reduction a tank got
pearl imp
Erga u listen Takayan while tanking?
uneven mason
W T F is TMI?
sweet summit
yes sir
pearl imp
❤️
uneven mason
Literally boggling atm
solemn haven
The Theck-Meloree Index. Used to evaluate tank specs
sweet summit
is that AMR by any chance
solemn haven
Dunno tbh
strong forum
ah no, i saw that on tank TC disc
uneven mason
Sounds like some made up metric
solemn haven
i was honestly asking for a friend, i am not really following the index myself, so i only asked what he wanted to know
strong forum
no its a formula
steel mauve
I wouldnt put much stock in any ranking comparing tanks defensively imo
uneven mason
Oh wait I remember that being a thing back when AMR?
sweet summit
The Theck-Meloree Index is a tanking metric that attempts to quantify the “smoothness” of a tank’s damage intake based on spike magnitude and frequency. Its fundamental assumption is that damage spikes become exponentially more dangerous (and thus more important) as they grow in size.
solemn haven
Think so
uneven mason
Ask Mr Robot was a thing
sweet summit
hmmm
steel mauve
Any tank can do any thing they want, be it high keys or ce
steel mauve
Tmi has been around for ever
solemn haven
Aite ill just say you guys said it was good still :p
uneven mason
So its Noxxic, not a thing
strong forum
all the tanks are good defensively
ionic fern
👀
uneven mason
tanks are like a hair apart as far as capability
ionic fern
I got pinged.
strong forum
yes
uneven mason
it depends on how smooth brain you are
strong forum
DR sims higher for me than BV+TGV
ionic fern
Ok?
strong forum
why
ionic fern
Was it ST?
strong forum
yea
steel mauve
I wouldnt say amr is as bad as noxxic but its not a far off comparison
ionic fern
THere you go.
strong forum
its better by like 4dps
ionic fern
......
uneven mason
😡
solemn haven
Bloodmallet wise then?
uneven mason
Mwahi gonna smite you Nom
strong forum
Bloodmallet wise then?
Bloodmallet is damgur only
you cant reliably "sim" or model dmg intake
monks do a billion fucking omega math equations all the time
sweet summit
Using currently existing tools and 'reasonable amounts of effort in terms of doing your own math' it is NOT POSSIBLE to get an accurate survival weight for any tank spec; if anyone is giving you some
it's because they either just basically made them up to appease you or they are stupid and are using shitty methods and think those methods are accurate.
strong forum
but the general consensus is, ^
uneven mason
Just remember, only 1 tank spec is 🤘
modern brook
deathknight?
modern brook
Paladins are
turbid cargo
I remember ages ago jacking around with a sim model around the tanking dummies, with the incrementally stacking damage buff (that does spell damage when cast) at regular intervals.
It was at least somewhat useful for seeing how many stacks you could survive to, profiling damage smoothness, etc
uneven mason
Yeah but tanks are extremely situational
turbid cargo
Yerp
uneven mason
Like' the tanking dummy is vs physical damage right now, and IIRC back when someone was doing tests that way it was during a time period where BDK was able to over heal themselves with death strike
until they got 1 shot
turbid cargo
as long as the information wasn't treated as gospel it was useful at least
modern brook
as long as the information wasn't treated as gospel it was useful at least
thats ultimately where the problem lies
People dont understand statistics
turbid cargo
yeeep
turbid cargo
But yeah in actual practice way too much revolves around knowing what you're doing, situational timing, fight dynamics, etc
idle ermine
Hi everyone, I am seeing mixed messages about stat weight and was hoping to get some clarity here
turbid cargo
haste
modern brook
Big emphisis on ilvl
idle ermine
Thanks for the updates
chilly brook
Hi everyone, I am seeing mixed messages about stat weight and was hoping to get ...
Hi lemme help you, all stats are very valuable for you as a tank! With the recent buff to Vanguard in prepatch ilvl has become even more important. More stats>better stats, and then at same ilvl follow that priority list posted above!
chilly brook
ilvl>>>haste>vers>=crit>mastery
See am big helpful yellow name when
modern brook
smh
modern brook
mods hes stealing my jokes 😠
idle ermine
I have been using pawn, but now I’m thinking it’s not the right choice
modern brook
yeah dont
chilly brook
Delete that
sweet summit
do not use pawn
chilly brook
Pawn big bad
modern brook
Pawn hasnt been useful since like Legion
chilly brook
Since ever
rose sentinel
Best case scenario for pawn is to input your own simmed stat weights and update it regularly, and even then... eh
chilly brook
uneven mason
Technically that's how blood dk works anyways
I remember the surprised squak my Raidleader made when his BDK got 1 shot on Fetid...was a good day.
idle ermine
There has to be a guide somewhere on how to do all of this haha
chilly brook
Pawn literally even in Legion meant you had to sim your stat weights per every upgrade
modern brook
#268491842637660160 there is :^)
chilly brook
Which defeated the purpose of pawn in the first place
I'm just looking forward to seeing the buffs/nerfs today
latent tusk
what addon to use instead of pawn? i was big noob too and have it , i know its useless but what to install instead?
chilly brook
None
modern brook
^
chilly brook
Gearing is simple
sweet summit
simulationcraft if youre looking for big dps
chilly brook
Ilvl is priority
latent tusk
ah ok
modern brook
ilvl > haste > verse>=crit :^)
rose sentinel
With the exception of trinkets, gearing yourself is relatively straightforward
chilly brook
Simc>raidbots if you wanna figure out what will do more damage though
Also that profile picture gave me eye cancer
sweet summit
raidbots is simc 🤔
chilly brook
chilly brook
raidbots is simc 🤔
Yes but simc addon copy past into raidbots
latent tusk
my prob is i have 30% mast, 15% vers and haste lol gotta flip that
modern brook
It was a to > not a greater than >
chilly brook
What bull said
rose sentinel
%s are weighted differently
latent tusk
oh ok
rose sentinel
Your mastery has a base start of.... 13.2%?
Like if you have 0 mastery, you'll still have 13% mastery
latent tusk
i seeeeeee
chilly brook
Dont worry too much about what %s you're at
latent tusk
ok
rose sentinel
So don't pay as much attention to that
latent tusk
ty
modern brook
Ultimately @latent tusk ; as long as you follow ilvl>haste your actual stat allocation wont matter too much
idle ermine
All very helpful info
modern brook
any difference in dps or survibility can easily be made up just by playing better or pulling differently
Like if you're ever at a point where you absolutely cant kill a boss because ur verse % keeps you from being one shot
Like you dont need us anymore
sweet summit
i do need you 🥺
reef fulcrum
Which talent are you using for m+ in tier 6 (ITF, UF, Ravager)? I'm using Ravager but I've seen people using ITF lately, am I missing something? 🤔
sweet summit
ItF is good for raids, ravager performs better in dungeons
reef fulcrum
👍
rose sentinel
I don't play prot as much. I thought UF was always the play, has that changed?
gloomy cradle
I don't play prot as much. I thought UF was always the play, has that changed?
just get the azerite trait
sweet summit
since our damage profile changed from thunderclap to revenge, UF lost a lot of value
idle ermine
So what are the right talents for raids
sweet summit
whatever sims the highest but BV imo
north rampart
how do you guys deal with Dr Ikus in plaguefall?
latent tusk
for setting up for mythic + do i use the raid talents or a different set? im seeing the talents ppl are running to sim high but the icy veins pin for mythic+ says to us UF which ppl said was dead (or were tey only saying that about raids)
sweet summit
raids have not been damage heavy in a good while, so we mostly just go for dps now
this is what id run in m+
idle ermine
Wow so no more anger management
sweet summit
since its on the same row as bolster its kinda dead
chilly brook
Run AM for damage
sweet summit
bolster helps too much with shield block downtime
chilly brook
That's about it
sweet summit
yeah what griff said
modern brook
^
revist taking am in like 9.1
when we have haste to maintain 3 blocks without break
dry vortex
something close to this for raids
bounding stride over crackling thunder for dungeons? what
latent tusk
ok thanks erga
modern brook
i thought the q was for raid
chilly brook
Uh yea
sweet summit
imean that doesnt matter tbh
chilly brook
Crackling had not a lot of value to begin with
sweet summit
CT has higher damage potential since bigger range, but mobs shouldnt be far away from you 🤷♂️
civic rover
but CT has the visual
sweet summit
in BFA i did like 90% of my keys without CT
modern brook
my ss was for raid
chilly brook
With shield block downtime having a lower CD with heroic leap actually would be more useful in keys
sweet summit
bring back safeguard 😔
modern brook
or rather what i would use in a raid setting
civic rover
wouldn't HR be boss in raid doe
modern brook
probably
sweet summit
might be
modern brook
but tbh i wouldnt play aorund it cause i never had to
sweet summit
there is no damage component to HR anymore, just extra rage and +1 sec of SB
modern brook
so unless its a big meaty gain i probably would just press bolster again
uneven mason
using HR felt bad compared to AM
and Bolster feels best for big pulls
But in raid, why HR, when you could push ST DPS
strong forum
okay boys
ionic fern
Only boss you would swap out from AM in your regular guild would probably be Sludgefist.
strong forum
i can now stream with comms hidden
sweet summit
strong forum
big
chilly brook
Poggers
sweet summit
howd you do that
modern brook
strong forum
software magix
misty rain
So, Prot Warrior is the worst tank now? How dire is this. Worth swapping tanks to push high keys?
ionic fern
No.
modern brook
no, its not, and no
latent tusk
ok heres one for the chat, since learning is so much fun, why storm bolt for PVE instead of rumbling earth, what am i missing, or is it used when interrupt is down
sweet summit
the extra stop from storm bolt is insanely strong
modern brook
more than likely prot warrior will remain one of the stronger tanks for keys after vdh/pally damage is brought in line
ionic fern
A lot of classes bring AOE stuns already. 👀
YOu don't wanna DR the whole pack if you need to interrupt one enemy.
ripe seal
This is what I'm currently running and planning on maybe running for raids:
chilly brook
Not to mention
misty charm
What is the reasoning for AoE provoke to have 4 mins cd?
latent tusk
ok ty erga, now i gotta add another button haha
chilly brook
Prot warrior aoe damage is kinda nutty
ripe seal
Although I'm lowkey considering running a Shield Slam build with punish cause of stacking damage reduction, Im' a bit torn though
modern brook
ravager and itf are probably going to be better for yo
ionic fern
This is what I'm currently running and planning on maybe running for raids:
Swap UF out for ItF and you're good.
hallow smelt
This is what I'm currently running and planning on maybe running for raids:
Why storm bolt in raids?
ionic fern
DAMAGEEE
sweet summit
devastator will give you more SS than punish
modern brook
damaj
ripe seal
Why storm bolt in raids?
I just personally like having the extra stun on demand just incase
modern brook
25 is a wash for raid anyways
chilly brook
Although I'm lowkey considering running a Shield Slam build with punish cause of...
Punish isn't really all that worth imo
But that's just me
uneven mason
nostalgia
ripe seal
You're probably right, I just enjoy the thought of 3x Shield Slam during Shield Block, along with the dmg reduction you get from Punish
modern brook
+devestator removes the most trap ability in the game
chilly brook
Big rage
latent tusk
is the playy to use avatar, spear, raveger, revenge? in that order
hallow smelt
I just personally like having the extra stun on demand just incase
I feel you - but in a lot of fights in raids you can’t stun... in M+ I get it, in raids it makes no sense to me.
modern brook
who remembers doing log review of new prots and they press devestate like 18 times ina row :^(
uneven mason
You're probably right, I just enjoy the thought of 3x Shield Slam during Shield ...
You'll do more SS Damage with Devastator than you will with punish, funny isn't it.
ripe seal
I'll probably run Double Time for more mobility though
sweet summit
i throw down ravager first for some easy initial threat, then demo->avatar+spear->revenj
modern brook
DT for more mobility is a look
ripe seal
You'll do more SS Damage with Devastator than you will with punish, funny isn't ...
Oh yeah Devastator has a chance to reset SS, I somehow forgot
modern brook
but thats fight dependant
chilly brook
who remembers doing log review of new prots and they press devestate like 18 tim...
I remember doing log review in Uldir and people not pressing TC on single target for 15 seconds inside of avatar
modern brook
:%(
chilly brook
modern brook
maybe uf wasnt talented at least lol
chilly brook
Oh it was
modern brook
T-T
chilly brook
ripe seal
Cause what I've been usually doing on pull Is Avatar --> TC --> SS and rotate between those two, and If my RNG Is bad with SS reset I throw In a revenge every once in a while
sweet summit
good ol times when TC>SS on ST with avatar up 
chilly brook
The longer we go into this patch the more I feel I need to make a repeat of my 8.0 guide @modern brook
ripe seal
But I reckon since I'm gonna be running ITF instead of UF I'll probably just spam TC and SS during Avatar
uneven mason
I remember doing log review in Uldir and people not pressing TC on single target...
🤮
TC back in Uldir literall ydid more damage than SS
on ST ><
north rampart
is 3-6% damage reduction really so ignorable?
uneven mason
is 3-6% damage reduction really so ignorable?
The extra SSs mean more IPs, theres your 4.5%
north rampart
more IP's mroe rage spent, more indom healing / AM CD reduction i suppose
chilly brook
FEEDBACK LOOP
uneven mason
☝️
chilly brook
Corporate buzz words
modern brook
check out this synergy
I've said it a millino times AM should be baseline
its by far the most fun aspect of all 3 specs
sweet summit
@modern brook 
north rampart
could punish we worth it on sludgefist maybe? less damage for your cotank too right?
but then IP would do the same or not?
ripe seal
So, I'm gonna be tanking as a prot warrior for a mythic guild for the first time In years, anything I should keep In mind or maybe research with it comes to my class? Cause currently I've been stacking Haste and Vers pieces as much as I can
north rampart
i think brewmasters stagger helps reduce the mechanic, im not sure how other abilites interact
signal plover
@ripe seal check out tanknotes.com
misty rain
I would like to take this moment to complain about healers. It really grinds my gears when healers don't just sit down to drink a lil bit every chance they get.
ripe seal
I've also been holding on with making my Thunderlord legendary just incase It gets nerfed, but I'm tempted to create It this weekend
civic rover
So, I'm gonna be tanking as a prot warrior for a mythic guild for the first time...
as long as you do appropriate research you'll be fine
chilly brook
could punish we worth it on sludgefist maybe? less damage for your cotank too ri...
No
More rage
Means more IP
ripe seal
<@!213429243357429761> check out tanknotes.com
Never been on that site before, cheers mate!
ripe seal
as long as you do appropriate research you'll be fine
Gotcha, thanks!
modern brook
<@!204081428869283843> <:greensloth:766650223098855504>
on the grand scale of infinity two and a million are roughly the same number.
merry elbow
What is the ballpark cooldown for Avatar when running AM?
modern brook
What is the ballpark cooldown for Avatar when running AM?
iirc its ~ 1 minute?
north rampart
Which means less damage for your cotank
cool im really trying to learn all the interactions before the raid, i guess condemn also reduce the damage the other tank recives aswell
chilly brook
on the grand scale of infinity two and a million are roughly the same number.
That's why you only have 2 posts because shadowlands discussion was deleted
dire kiln
guys, about thunderlord, doesn't it break the perfect alignment between shout and ravager?
modern brook
yeah sure i def posted in sl discussion
sweet summit
avatar is 1.5 without AM
roughly 1 min-45 sec with AM?
modern brook
for definite
sweet summit
👀
modern brook
i fucking doubted myself
chilly brook
Shadowlands prot specifically
uneven mason
I would like to take this moment to complain about healers. It really grinds my ...
In SL you have to have about 3 ticks of drinking before it has any noticeable impact on available mana, they nerfed that in the prepatch.
modern brook
guys, about thunderlord, doesn't it break the perfect alignment between shout an...
more casts will almost always bebetter than better casts
chilly brook
guys, about thunderlord, doesn't it break the perfect alignment between shout an...
Theres no benefit to it lining up with ravager really
ionic fern
chilly brook
Any rage gain will offset the damage loss since you'll have more revenge casts
ionic fern
sweet summit
archived channels he is hacking
chilly brook
That's more like it
open monolith
This is my fantasy raid ending:
Right as he gets close to death, Chadlord Flexnathrius lifts the entire raid, stunning them, and prepares a "ENOUGH!" raid wipe. Right before the cast finishes, an axe flies out of a mirror and we hear "I AM MY WAR CRIMES".
Garrosh then uses Condemn repeatedly until he dies
astral halo
I've seen it said that you'll probably want to run Ravager+Bolster in higher keys, does that make The Wall strictly better or is Thunderlords still good (just not as effective without UF+AM)?
ionic fern
Thunderlords is still goooood in any AoE situation.
astral halo
Alright, so still a good chunk of higher uptime on demo makes it worth it then
open monolith
TL >wall in m+ regardless of talents.
The wall is still GOOD in m+ though
Assuming you are using booming voice
modern brook
This is my fantasy raid ending:
Right as he gets close to death, Chadlord Fle...
GArrosh getting a redemption arc in the same expansion where they reuse his falling arc is actualy so meta tbh
I'm super behind this now
astral halo
Thanks
sweet summit
the wall+am makes SW a very short CD yeah
thats a great build for raids
but is behind in m+ due to the loss of bolster
chilly brook
sweet summit
unless.. 👀
modern brook
ergas not made of vser and hes a bad tank
civic rover
guys im doing weekly 15s should i go vers uwu
modern brook
QED
civic rover
vocal bison
TD8 Ftw
ionic fern
I swear i will make a secondary account on discord one day and troll all of you with questions.
chilly brook
guys im doing weekly 15s should i go vers uwu
Guys I'm doing a 20 should I go vers oWo
open monolith
I put vers on my Legendary because I am smol pp
sweet summit
suprised you havent yet
chilly brook
I swear i will make a secondary account on discord one day and troll all of you ...
Do it bald man
ionic fern
Who says this isn't my secondary account tho?
sweet summit
uhoh
ionic fern
👀
chilly brook
Bald but still has better facial hair than me
open monolith
This is Mwahi's primary account
chilly brook
😩
vocal bison
This is Mwahi's primary account
open monolith
Mwahi refers to himself in the third person on this account
modern brook
I am mwahi
sweet summit
I am mwahi
open monolith
I am mwahi
civic rover
i am the real rosjen
chilly brook
I dont want to be Mwahi he works too hard I'm too lazy
strong forum
i am zimbabwe
neat dirge
if i cant reflect a spell, does spell reflect still reduce magic dmg by 20%?
modern brook
yes
sweet summit
nope, it reflects the full damage
ionic fern
I just got Spartacus vibes.
vocal bison
if you can reflect, it reduces magic dmg by 100%
open monolith
Why yes, it does do exactly what the tooltip says it does
sweet summit
oh nvm i cant read
civic rover
i look like adult aang without the arrow
chilly brook
Tfw
sweet summit
bullfango is right
chilly brook
Spell reflect
modern brook
If you take spell damage and it doesnt reflect or deflect
neat dirge
if i cant reflect a spell, does spell reflect still reduce magic dmg by 20%? (IF I CANT)
modern brook
it's a 20% DR for magic damage
chilly brook
Is just "no u" in game form
sweet summit
YES, SORRY
modern brook
some spells will deflect
where it consumes and prevents but it doesnt apply it to your enemy
Grong; the only fight I've ever been useful to this discord on, is a good exmaple
ionic fern
What did you provide?
modern brook
I was the guy that said "no you can reflect grip"
and everyone said "no sense said u cant" and then i showed the logs and now im still not yellow
vocal bison
screenshot
misty rain
In SL you have to have about 3 ticks of drinking before it has any noticeable im...
This is more reason to sit an drink more often, not less.
ionic fern
I was the guy that said "no you can reflect grip"
Idk man.
modern brook
oh no
sweet summit
👀
civic rover
i am the real bullfango
modern brook
i remember when @lusty grotto was a retail player :^(
chilly brook
I dont want your orange that's more work than yellow
autumn pendant
modern brook
I'll be orange
civic rover
i enriched the warrior community with my sense of humor
modern brook
All guides will be broken down to simple "use the shield 4head"
topaz root
looked at pins i might have missed it, but do we have any list of spellreflectable abilities on 5 man dungeons yet?
sweet summit
😳
topaz root
and things thats worth using it on
modern brook
^
topaz root
kek im blind as a bat
modern brook
i missed it too fwiw
chilly brook
I'm waiting for those juicy nerfs
open monolith
I should be yellow because
civic rover
wowhead is fake news
open monolith
eyir socks
gilded tendonBOT
🧦
civic rover
eyir socks
gilded tendonBOT
🧦
chilly brook
And it just keeps posting the affixes for the 9th time today
modern brook
eyir sucks
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @modern brook
merry elbow
So according to my highly suspect napkin math
Thunderlord w/ UF+AM and Avatar up is ~14s Demo CD
Outside of that w/ Thunderlord is ~25s Demo CD
chilly brook
Eyir is bad
sweet summit
eyir sucks
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @sweet summit
open monolith
Wowhead is 90% trash with the occasional helpful or interesting thing
It's like my physical mailbox
merry elbow
Which if AM Avatar is ~60s CD means roughly 1 more demo shout per minute
open monolith
Usually throw it all lut out
civic rover
eyir poopy
chilly brook
So according to my highly suspect napkin math
Thunderlord w/ UF+AM and Avatar up...
No let UF die
gilded tendonBOT
fuk u @civic rover
civic rover
there we go
ionic fern
Stop bullying the bot. 
modern brook
Which if AM Avatar is ~60s CD means roughly 1 more demo shout per minute
So even if the math is roughly right you're thinking about it wrong.
chilly brook
Getting an extra Demoralizing Shout in doesnt matter if you're wasting the damage you would have gained by not using UF
open monolith
Yes chael, uf / am is legit with TL in lower keys, but this discord is an anti-UF community
strong forum
cuz UF is weak af now
modern brook
Its on demand rage gen for basically every pull
chilly brook
Because UF is just bad now
merry elbow
Im not arguing for or against UF lol
strong forum
modern brook
Literally no one said uf but griff
jagged pier
UF is just a shit talent always has been imo
chilly brook
Just like thunderclap
ionic fern
We are not a anti-UF community, play it if you want.
It's just not optimal hence why we do not strongly reccomend it. 🤷
merry elbow
Rav is like 50 rage right?
sweet summit
60
open monolith
ANTI-UF COMMUNITY SO TOXIC WOW
ionic fern
Im not arguing for or against UF lol
You can be lazy and just check the casts in a sim so you don't have to napkin math.
civic rover
news today: gaming communities are toxic
rain dune
If UF is so bad shouldn't the wowhead and icy articles be updated?
north rampart
Its on demand rage gen for basically every pull
ravager or booming demo shout?
modern brook
both
merry elbow
Im at work rn so napking math it is
modern brook
mostly demo shout since the convo is on TLord efficacy
chilly brook
Thunderclap is only good for small rage gain and a shield slam reset/reducing the CD of Demoralizing Shout if you have the legendary
open monolith
Mwahi sent me a DM with some really hateful speech regarding UF usage. I can post proof, but I'll need about 30 minutes to edit it in Paint
chilly brook
The damage is piss poor even with UF
merry elbow
But seems ravager would def be higher rage per min
north rampart
coz if you want on demand rage every pull that is also ravager
north rampart
and you can stagger shout and ravager if you want
chilly brook
No
open monolith
@north rampart ravager AND boomer shout. Never one or the other, silly
ionic fern
If UF is so bad shouldn't the wowhead and icy articles be updated?
UF is/was recommended as the "user friendly" build tho. 🤷
You can still do most of the content with it without any issues.
chilly brook
AVATAR DEMORALIZINF SHOUT RAVAGSR SPEAR RVEENGE BIG PUMP MONGO
modern brook
Yall are getting lost in the weeds on this
chilly brook
merry elbow
1 extra demo per min is 40 rage vs ravager 60 every 45s
open monolith
Mwahi is being paid off by Big Ravager to suppress the truth
rain dune
Aaaah gotcha
jagged pier
you rav before demo shout
open monolith
Don't believe his lies
modern brook
@merry elbow TLords is good because you use it with ravager
rain dune
Ravager is more fun anyways I just feel silly for not noticing UF is bad I guess
chilly brook
Real talk if you drop them all around the same time you're doing 10k+ in aoe
modern brook
You're suddenly never starting a fight without enough rage to string 2 blocks, while also throwing a fuck ton of revenge out
open monolith
It's not 60 vs 45 sec rage, you forget that you STILL get TL benefit WITHOUT UF
vocal bison
ravager is savager, you're welcome kids
chilly brook
you rav before demo shout
I typically throw it before charging in tbh
open monolith
Yeah so that's much better with Ravager
Ravager is basically it better in every way
merry elbow
Right
open monolith
Except it's an extra button
north rampart
<@252220503568154625> ravager AND boomer shout. Never one or the other, silly
you not waste rage then? i might just be a bad but half the time i like to stagger them out for smoothness, if not i have to ragedump into IP, and thats what healers are for um here to spam revenge and condemn
open monolith
Extra buttons are bad
modern brook
chael literally never said to run uf :^(
chilly brook
you not waste rage then? i might just be a bad but half the time i like to stag...
IP and Shield Block are off the GCD
open monolith
I know
north rampart
yea, but i have a healer, i want to spam condem which is on the gcd
rain dune
xD
ionic fern
👀
Not on AoE please?
dense flame
Lmao
open monolith
Charge avatar shield block shield slam, IP, booming voice, IP, ravager, SPAM REVENGE WITH ALL THAT RAGE BABY
north rampart
Kyrians have small penis, it is known.
chilly brook
And just because you have a healer doesn't mean you can't use your defensive abilities
modern brook
tab target condemn for the conduit DR 🧠
merry elbow
@modern brook yeah I was just laying out the math for why rav is better rage lol
dense flame
Even though I miss spear
north rampart
And just because you have a healer doesn't mean you can't use your defensive abi...
its like you want me to be 4th on dps or something
chilly brook
I uhh
dense flame
I am happy venthyr isn’t bad for prot off spec
chilly brook
Use my defensive abilities
merry elbow
Hey guys
BFA build is BiS right?
dense flame
Condemn hits fucking hard
chilly brook
And still burst to 10k+.....
modern brook
plz no chael
merry elbow
But icy veins told me to
sweet summit
venthyr is arguably the worst option for dungeons
chilly brook
Because I have plenty of rage to spend
sweet summit
👀
simple mural
Hey guys
BFA build is BiS right?
For damage yes.
dense flame
Sure but what can you do
modern brook
god dammit
chilly brook
For damage yes.
No
vocal bison
worse than necro?
torn gulch
good evening
jagged pier
For damage yes.
wrong
chilly brook
Stop
dense flame
When you dps main
merry elbow
Haha
dense flame
chilly brook
Bad information all over the place
modern brook
worse than necro?
only big dumb poopy pants go necro @civic rover
still pagoda
🥳 Mwahi caused the build drunken bar fight with his guide
ionic fern
WHAT DID I EVEN DO
jagged pier
@chilly brook its because the wowhead guide has it as the offensive build
modern brook
it does
civic rover
cries in necrolord
still pagoda
WHAT DID I EVEN DO
They're arguing about BfA build again 
open monolith
@ionic fern ICY VEINS SAYS TO USE UF AND I DIDN'T READ ANY WORDS I ONLY SEE GREEN CHECK MARK WHY ARE YOU LYING TO US PLEASE RESPOND
jagged pier
its the wowhead guide im telling you
torn gulch
how bad are sharpening stones
[19:49]
compared to oils
ionic fern
chilly brook
But icy veins told me to
BV Ravager AM if you want damage, BV Ravager Bolster if you need the defense
dense flame
Imagine if you could swap covenant abilities
ionic fern
still pagoda
dense flame
Feelsbadman
merry elbow
Aight imma check my irony at the door
chilly brook
I cant keep up
modern brook
we're str specs here dude
civic rover
modern brook
u cant play us like this
merry elbow
Im on the ravager train Im just memeing
dense flame
Lmao
jagged pier
tbf though DR sims 1 dps higher for me than BV in sims on ST just saying
civic rover
HR is bis
dense flame
Played it for whole expansion. Enjoy new play style
open monolith
@jagged pier get out
chilly brook
its the wowhead guide im telling you
Isn't that written by llarold or w/e his name is?
jagged pier
Isn't that written by llarold or w/e his name is?
i dunno who but i disagreed with it from the start
jagged pier
<@179993058186625025> get out
im only saying what sims have told me
sweet summit
llarold is a smart man
ionic fern
People fail to realise that guides are a STARTING POINT.
merry elbow
Chances we get a balance patch today or next week?
jagged pier
yes
chilly brook
Llarold is a funny man
sweet summit
doubt a lot will happen to us
open monolith
I feel like patch notes would already be out if it was today
I saw they made torghast harder, kek
merry elbow
I like playing the non meta class, we either get buffed through the roof or ignored entirely, its a fun gamble
jagged pier
thing is @ionic fern people take guides as the be all and end all of stuff like sims, etc the wording of the guide on wowhead makes it sound like UF is good and does more damage by calling it the offensive build, so people will take it on whats written there
north rampart
thing is <@!238357283996696576> people take guides as the be all and end all of ...
I fell for the UF meme becuse of guides, then saw the light of ravager, like its week 1 no one has leggos why are you recomending this trash wowhead? even with leggos it only maybe good with one specific leggo in dungeons.
north rampart
and it it super clunky
ocean yoke
I prefer ravager even with the leggo
north rampart
great all my gcds on 300 dps thunderclaps
jagged pier
I fell for the UF meme becuse of guides, then saw the light of ravager, like its...
none of us in the shadowland -prot channel recommended UF I dont know who the guy who wrote the wowhead guide is, but the icy viens one is good and written by a trusted source
warped linden
stupid question but, the Unhinged lego doesn't work with Ravager right?
north rampart
i feel the the writers at wowhead prot after seeing how much better ravager is
dont even play prot*
latent tusk
can u jump straight to lvl 6 torghast or have to climb up?
north rampart
climb
sweet summit
stupid question but, the Unhinged lego doesn't work with Ravager right?
@lyric summit test it for me
jagged pier
you have to climb if you have not unlocked it
north rampart
one clime then level 6 is unlocked for both wings
latent tusk
ah ok 🙂
north rampart
dont climb both one at a time just power through one wing
lyric summit
<@!278157108791476224> test it for me
1 MS proc from Ravager
Why not 2?
Nobody knows
cobalt heart
maybe because of 45s cd
sweet summit
with prot ravager??
cobalt heart
instead of baseline 1.5 min
lyric summit
And yes it works across specs
sweet summit
👀
lyric summit
Let me swing at something for you real quick
warped linden
my guy.. that's real nice
north rampart
wait prot warriors can mortal strike
lyric summit
You proc 1 MS from Unhinged with Ravager @sweet summit
warped linden
did we just break the matrix?
barren anvil
what are best trinkets for prot warrior in dungeons atm? Do we focus on damage dealing trinkets or tanking?
sweet summit
excellent
north rampart
lol that is great
sweet summit
thank you
warped linden
awesome, thanks for testing @lyric summit
barren anvil
i got these ones
north rampart
what are best trinkets for prot warrior in dungeons atm? Do we focus on damage d...
bonus question how it the +life pvp trinket?
uneven mason
we'll know tonight!
north rampart
think i read signet doenst prov from prot ravager but i am not 100%
sweet summit
yeah it didnt on beta
jagged pier
^^
shut summit
yea didnt work on beta as of dec 1
leaden wadi
whats the better boe shield to get for prot warrior?
modern brook
bonus question how it the +life pvp trinket?
+life is bad cause the +str is better for defensive and offensive situations
if ur going a PVP trinket on use or proc'd str is the one; depending on your 2nd trinket
uneven mason
whats the better boe shield to get for prot warrior?
Isn't there only 1 BoE?
leaden wadi
one is crit ver and other is haste mast
rose sentinel
If its the same ilvl always prio haste
leaden wadi
thanks
brave mauve
just wait for someone to miss a 0 in their price and buy it for 6k 4hed
uneven mason
go through both weeks M0 with not a single 2h dropping
uneven mason
thats how he rolls
hushed cobalt
if only clap put the ooze dot on everything it hit
north rampart
if ur going a PVP trinket on use or proc'd str is the one; depending on your 2nd...
thanks
uneven mason
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
north rampart
why is downtime so long? its 2020 and activision isnt exactly a small company i just dont get it, the biggest IT companies in the world run with 99.95 uptimes n stuff
rose sentinel
Should be down until a little over an hour from now
north rampart
tech has advanced to much aswell, SSD are so much faster than HDD of old
gray warren
never understood why they don't just do this overnight
ionic fern
What?
rose sentinel
So that way they don't have to force people to work midnights, I'm guessing
north rampart
just copy paste everything to a backup push the update and lets go! what are you doing inputting the windows server CD-KEY by hand on every computer or something?
modern brook
never understood why they don't just do this overnight
more people play overnight than during the work day
north rampart
my conspiracy theory is that there server guys/dev ops team make it difficult on purpose so they dont get automated out of a job
modern brook
i mean
north rampart
very big brain play by the infraestructure guys
deep steppe
jammin till changes come out
modern brook
the wow servers are like very complex; tbh
it isnt minecraft being ran on ur college laptop
west yew
game literally came out in 2006
modern brook
and weekly maintence isnt as straight forward as "just update the file 4head"
vocal bison
yea, they probably have to turn everything off then turn it on again
north rampart
but maintenece takes a similar time as it did in vanilla, and server infaestructre is alteast 15x faster than i was 14 years ago. whatevery files need to get patched can get sent over 100/400 GBe now, the processors can proces orders of magniture more data per second now, and it isnt even as if they have 10x as many players as they did in the past
vocal bison
calling it now they run everything off XP
north rampart
gotta be some guy inputting Microsoft Vista CD-Keys in a backroom somewhere every tuesday
none knows why but if Teddy isnt at work the validation server always crashes, best not to fire him.
uneven mason
but maintenece takes a similar time as it did in vanilla, and server infaestruct...
Actually, only during large content releases, general weekly maint is non existent because they CAN do most of those processes without shutting down at all due to the file system upgrades they made during WoD.
Server speed (Throughput) has 0 to do with maintenance, a lot of it is manual operations, and people have not gotten faster in 15 years.
north rampart
"Server speed (Throughput) has 0 to do with maintenance, a lot of it is manual operations, and people have not gotten faster in 15 years." Called it. Teddy with the CD-Keys hard at work like its 2006.
uneven mason
imagine the reason for this extended maint is that they have to run the scripting for the raid to make sure they didn't miss anything, that means they're not just letting the computer do it, they're engaging the zone, seeing if anything breaks.
dusty linden
Not sure if I should be mentioning this elsewhere, but which legendaries are yall getting or have already gotten? And which slot are you putting yours in? I'm personally planning on getting the Thuderlord one in some R2 boots as soon the servers are up.
north rampart
imagine the reason for this extended maint is that they have to run the scriptin...
are you trying to say that production is not made for testing? Suppose id rather wait a few hours than have my progressed wiped because some script didnt trigger properly.
uneven mason
I'm saying your claim that maintenance hasn't improved in the past decade and a half is wrong. Also correcting a misconception that what they're doing is "patching" and sending data in, what they're doing is flipping switches and making sure the breakers don't pop.
north rampart
ah more like redeploy than a patch i guess
latent tusk
what is addon that adds soulbinds and conduits again? simc?
chilly brook
Gotta love it all tanks simming at around the low 4000s at the top end and then theres this
chilly brook
what is addon that adds soulbinds and conduits again? simc?
Simulationcraft
north rampart
i bet they use these big patches to make a lot of other backend system changes we dont even hear about aswell.
chilly brook
Download it, type /simc then copy the box that comes up
barren anvil
Guys tomorrow we will be able finaly to place in first Endurance conduit. Which one is the best?
sweet summit
Brutal vitality is very nice
worthy ingot
Unnevering Focus=more deeps
chilly brook
Brutal vitality means more dps
Incentivized to deal damage
Less IP casts
More revenge
uneven mason
Condemn + Brutal vitality mmhmm
chilly brook
I mean memes aside 5% of your damage adding to your IP is super nice
formal river
Esp when revenge is brring
sick sentinel
Is heavy repercussions worth taking over anger management / bolster in raid tonight?
grand drum
Does brutal vitality refresh IP duration?
sweet summit
Nope
tight canopy
stone or oil?
sick sentinel
Oil
tight canopy
if running oil, what pot is more damage? str or shadow damage?
sick sentinel
I think oil is better for like all melee i think
worthy ingot
phantom fire was simming highest
sick sentinel
Im using str pot
tight canopy
str pot cheaper on my server hehe
sick sentinel
^
Not gonna blow a load of gold for aotc
Ill use highest sim consumables, even if they are more expensive, for prog next week
But not today
distant crystal
i'll use them for last two if needed
getting aotc knocked out this week is kinda important
vocal bison
everyone see the affixes this week? Thank god the Tyran/Rag/Quake was an error.
distant crystal
it's fort/bursting something right
vocal bison
fort/burst/volcanic, yea
distant crystal
i guess push week is in 12 weeks then 
vocal bison
haha
vocal bison
uneven mason
push 5k and sell carries
uneven mason
I tell my guildies they get 10% below retail
vocal bison
lmao
honest plinth
NA brothers tel me what is 1st world boss tyvm
craggy harness
World Boss is: "Server Down"
vocal bison
I'm still astounded people are buying carries already on M0s and L3 Torghast
craggy harness
It's rogues... right? They're feeling inferior after all that pvp oneshotting
All I see in trade is "waah, I can't do L3"
lavish oracle
Patch notes out yet?
craggy harness
or was the zone channel, iunno
vocal bison
I am secretly happy inside when I see rogues complaining about having some sort of difficulty
craggy harness
@vocal bison I know right lol
lavish oracle
Haven't been able to find them so I assume no but I am also very blind sometimes
inner harbor
wait what, wtf is buying carriers on that?
uneven mason
people who find mythic intimidating
vocal bison
lol
lavish oracle
Some people have more money than sense
craggy harness
translation, some people sold boes
uneven mason
Same people who buy Iphones
inner harbor
hey now
quartz mist
I just want to log on and do M2 spires all night and not get thunder lord, feelsbadman
craggy harness
Hey, now. I buy an iphone because I dont' want to rebuy apps in google store
vocal bison
I almost feel like it's gotta be a habit thing, in no way it occurs to them they may be capable of just smooshing some buttons and doing an M0 just fine on their own.
uneven mason
Hey, now. I buy an iphone because I dont' want to rebuy apps in google store
I paid 20$ for my wife and I android - the difference in cost on that and an Iphone for both of us was a literal downpayment on a new car
Money > Sense
craggy harness
Value is relative.
If we were talking money... we'd just buy a cheap phone with no abilities
inner harbor
do people who buy m0's get the gear and then buy more m+? lol
craggy harness
I don't judge people. It's just personal choice and consideration
uneven mason
and dropped 200k on the shield
inner harbor
seems like an expensive way to not experience content
uneven mason
seems like an expensive way to not experience content
IKR
craggy harness
at any rate... just realize, this is just a drop in the bucket
lavish oracle
I paid like $500 for my note 5 when I got it and I've had it for 5 years
craggy harness
look at the buys on mobile pay2win games
vocal bison
I paid like $500 for my note 5 when I got it and I've had it for 5 years
same, rocking my Iphone 6+ since 2014
honest plinth
so which one world boss is 1st? any info
lavish oracle
Hopefully it's one that drops the conduit
inner harbor
server's still down
craggy harness
World Boss right now is: [Blizzard IT]
inner harbor
19 min until the 2:00pm PST becomes 3:00pm PST
vocal bison
19 min until the 2:00pm PST becomes 3:00pm PST
everytime
forest lava
so we have to wait...
craggy harness
79 min until bizzard tells us maintenance is taking longer
inner harbor
can't wait for the 2hr queue on illidan tonight
lavish oracle
Hopefully it goes til 12 am PST, then I will be king of the servers
Late night gang only
inner harbor
bunch of sleep deprived 30-somethings failing at mid-keys
lavish oracle
I mean, to be fair, that's basically group finder in a nutshell all the time
craggy harness
except for the tank who is on speed?
inner harbor
ofc
formal river
I haven't looked up any pull guides so I'm ready to be yelled at by an 11 year old DH for not optimizing.
lavish oracle
Look, when you have to do dungeons fast, you take speed, it's in the name
honest plinth
nobody is playing dhs now 😄
open monolith
Did they extend maintenance?
honest plinth
so you are in safespot haha
formal river
Ok good
open monolith
Anyone wanna do some quadruple Prot warrior m+ keys?
We'll just cycle booming voice avatar spears every pack
It'll be dope
lavish oracle
5 prot warriors or you're cowards
topaz pewter
topaz pewter
4 NF prot warriors with BV and Rav
lavish oracle
Kinda wondering how well a 5 prot pally group would do tbh
So much potential off healing
topaz pewter
This discord isn't for cowards aza, you won't find that here
lavish oracle
NF slaps
topaz pewter
wanna fight sock
open monolith
Yeah dude let's throw hands
topaz pewter
formal river
I can condemn mobs wherever they go NF nub
open monolith
And it makes your manual dexterity suffer
lavish oracle
He hit me but I just walked out of it
astral crystal
open monolith
Furry 0 Angel 1
topaz pewter
Look sock the blue methies ain't got nothin on my mobility
shut summit
shut summit
😉
open monolith
Bruh
I had my pitchfork
I was so ready
I was sooooo ready
I'm not even gonna dive into m+ or raid
inner harbor
i didn't know there was actually a @open monolith and thought someone just wanted to sock fight
open monolith
Gotta do TORGHAST
topaz pewter
We can do both stig
open monolith
I exclusively sock fight
inner harbor
i would but i got this thing with feet
open monolith
Yo feet are great
<- female troll warrior
Love them T O E S
Toes the size of fists
lavish oracle
The heel toe weirds me out
open monolith
It allows for superior balance
topaz pewter
I regret the moment someone pointed that out to me
open monolith
It also makes picking stuff up off the floor with your feet easier
Who wants to bend over right?
craggy harness
aaand we good
craggy harness
and trolls
inner harbor
except female trolls cuz foh
open monolith
Servers are green on the status page
lavish oracle
Time to find some patch notes
latent tusk
do we use heart of azeroth for mythic + too or just raid?
stable hare
Female troll master race
inner harbor
"Logging in to server" gg
formal river
Does no one work?
open monolith
I have Monday Tuesday and Wednesday off
formal river
Geesh
inner harbor
i'm working now wtf
open monolith
Black screen :(
restive flax
yo guys.... uhm... I have a question for lego crafting... Do I really need to craft that base item 15 times to be able to make myself a rank 1 lego?!
inner harbor
huh?
open monolith
No
restive flax
The base item I get is 175
open monolith
That's just to level up so that you can craft the next rank like to sell
inner harbor
ohhh
honest plinth
yo guys.... uhm... I have a question for lego crafting... Do I really need to cr...
yes
lavish oracle
Yeah, going to work in 30 minutes, big sad
honest plinth
or yo ucan just buy it
inner harbor
wouldn't it be more cost effective to just buy a 190 lol
restive flax
and what do I do with the 175 base item?
lavish oracle
Good luck on the world boss drops, bois
open monolith
I'm in
inner harbor
is it a rep pattern or something for the 190?
idk, i trained the jc pattern but the 190s are like 2k on my server
restive flax
Yeah theyre cheap for me too, but a guildie wanted to craft one and was confused as fuck
understandably so
restive flax
could I even craft a 175 lego?
open monolith
I am on loading screen
honest plinth
nope
open monolith
but I will let you know
honest plinth
ok ty
restive flax
?!
open monolith
seems to be stuck at 75%
restive flax
I dont get it LUL
open monolith
Dude just buy a 190 base piece off the AH LOL
the "craft 15 of these" is so that you can craft rank 1s and sell them, etc
honest plinth
seems to be stuck at 75%
lvl 1 leggo is 190 ilvl
restive flax
Yo I have my lego already^^
open monolith
loading screen boss is winning the fight. I don't think I'm gonna get in
inner harbor
@restive flax yeah it's basically just craft 15 of r1, it unlocks r2, rinse and repeat
open monolith
im in
inner harbor
gdi you footy bastard
open monolith
WB is Mortanis
restive flax
I mean I knew that before. but I thought rank 1 was the one you start with^^
inner harbor
omg it was meant to beeeee
honest plinth
WB is Mortanis
ty
open monolith
you won't get it
inner harbor
this is about the female troll comment isn't it
open monolith
yes
inner harbor
fair
open monolith
he drops a ring with okay haste on it
and bad-stat bracers
but all 207
guys if I get this conduit
you will all bow before me as your god, yeah?
craggy harness
no.
open monolith
oh 😦
craggy harness
least among equals, you'll be
craggy harness
good to know blizzard still hasn't fixed the jump from covenant teleport to flightpath visual
open monolith
what visual?
craggy harness
if you jump on FP too fast after the teleport, it shows you stuck right at the FP, even though server is calculating you throughout the shadowverse
so you can release, and it will show you along the way
first week, it would actually teleport you to the destination (zoning you), and the zone you back to where you left, stuck.
at least with kyrian, ymmv with others
open monolith
LMAO everything froze so bad
open monolith
world boss is dying as I sit here with all of my buttons glowing as though I pressed them
inner harbor
and now i'm just falling off the fp
open monolith
world boss 11%
i can see his health going down slowly while everyone around me is standing still
just gold 😦
fallow mortar
so.....any patch notes for prot?
open monolith
no
fallow mortar
sweet
open monolith
there is no anima quest?
paper orbit
no patch notes have been listed yet, so either no changes or they just haven't been published yet
lavish oracle
Fair
fallow mortar
squints I am going to go with they just have not been published yet