Oh I know
#protection
maiden ravine
but I love doing halls as Venthyr
alright, get a pvp chest to 171 after the weekly, and I should be 180 ilvl on both tanks
chilly brook
Looking through that heart of azeroth nerf thread
I cry
Like bruh I've bursted 10k on warrior
lavish oracle
@limpid pawn late response, I don't think many people are running DR, atm. (I am but I'm also not running TGV)
Ravager is still our best talent in that row at the moment
lavish oracle
No, I know
I was answering their original question which was about the DR/rav build
gloomy sundial
I don't think I ever lose aggro as Warrior unless if some DPS is blowing all their CDs right as I'm pulling
solar crown
Seems like tanks has gotten soft and stopped taking control of the groups. If you cant build aggro fast enough, tell the dps to calm their tits and let you get 2 seconds before they drop all their shit. Shouldnt be to hard
Exactly, daneii
gloomy sundial
Even then it rarely happens, Ravager, SoB, Revenge, Thunder Clap, Shout so many abilities to do damage and take aggro
solar crown
You cant expect to get agro when you have a night fae hunter behind you bombarding the area as you pull
At least not in a controlled fashion
gloomy sundial
I had some russian mm hunter pull 15k on some packs and still didn't lose aggro /shrug
people just gotta l2p
solar crown
Agro issues comes from people prioritizing sb and ignore pain first, and cant hit revenge fast enough in the rotation
So it takes a couple of globals to actually build threat
Tc is just useless tbh, revenge is what makes a difference
gloomy sundial
facts
worthy ingot
TGV 24 Kills, LET"S GO!
jagged pier
ive said it before bfa prot warrior, made a lot of people complacent because it was so ez and covered your gaps in bad play with BOM and essences, now you have ot think and not just spam TC ppl dont like it
solar crown
True story. I didnt play warrior in bfa but it was bonkers to watch as a dk main
Any suggestions for where you can get a decent shield? Have been super ul so far with 0 drops in all my dungeon-runs, and im still stuck with an 138
solar crown
My only choice us to buy one but it feels shit to spend 50k on it
open gazelle
guys i cant do it... devastator feels so fing bad
jagged pier
really i dont notice it I dont have time to press devastate if i run punish tbh
@solar crown i think it dpendson how much u value 50k like to alot of players than not much gold
chilly brook
Agro issues comes from people prioritizing sb and ignore pain first, and cant hi...
Between avatar, BV, Spear and Ravager its more than possible to burst for 10k+ aggro at the start of a pack shouldn't be an issue
solar crown
That is true, i just i general dont like buying boe's as they tend to be trash as soon as raid comes out. Might not be the case with the shield (?)
jagged pier
i mean there are less loot drops u might not get the shield for a while
lavish oracle
The difference between devastator and the other first row talents is so little I think you're fine @open gazelle
solar crown
They nerfed it?
solar crown
The droprate of boe was kinda sick in the beginning
lavish oracle
is it only 1 piece if you miss it then?
I wonder what the break point for most loot per person for Flex PUGs is then
solar crown
Between avatar, BV, Spear and Ravager its more than possible to burst for 10k+ a...
True :) havent checked the numbers myself but ive never experienced issues holding agro. But from my own experience i couldnt spend gcds on defensive stuff if the dps went ham from the get go
lavish oracle
gotta be like 14 or 15, right?
chilly brook
The difference between devastator and the other first row talents is so little I...
Tbh hard disagree, punish is only really valuable in single target situations only where you want to prioritize damage reduction and WM is practically useless most of the time
lavish oracle
the rage gen from WM is like...1 fewer IP every couple minutes just from personal testing
details rage gen tracker wasn't working when I tested it so I can't give an exact number unfortunately
solar crown
I bought a boe shield no regrets
Which one? I guess the one with the most haste? :D
chilly brook
gloomy sundial
Crit / Versa one I assume
lavish oracle
I asked in here how much less average rage gen WM was than Deva and no one would give a straight answer so I kinda just assumed no one actually knows
sweet summit
depends on how often mobs die around you
obv WM seems good now that we're only doing m0s
chilly brook
But from that sim profile that I linked you're literally talking almost an 8% difference in damage between punish and deva
Its fairly significant
WM isn't even on the list
lavish oracle
this is from a DPS standpoint?
sweet summit
yes
chilly brook
Yes it's a sim
But more shield slam resets also means more rage
A significant amount
fallow mortar
which is why I want to try Iron Maiden
chilly brook
WM really only becomes valuable if you're doing and fight where things constantly die in a consistent manner
chilly brook
which is why I want to try Iron Maiden
Wasn't great on beta
jagged pier
such a shame
fallow mortar
oh, that explaings a lot
sweet summit
ye
fallow mortar
I noticed shield bash comes back quite a bit and would love to increase the chances of it coming back
now i am at the mercy of haste :/
sweet summit
devastate, revenge, thunder clap and execute has a 30% chance to reset SS cooldown
with devastator its 20% per AA
chilly brook
It wasn't really great to begin with you're not missing out on much by not having Iron Maiden
Very rarely actually gave you resets
jagged pier
yer but the high ranks of it would have been really good
fallow mortar
fair, 4% was not much, but the upgraded ones ^
jagged pier
I think highest was like 25% which would have been really big
maiden ravine
haha, the soul ash mission jumped to level 25 for me
it just taunts me with its impossibility
cinder roost
Oh god don't tell me that, mine disapeared while I was leveling followers, I'm not even sure it's gonna come back this week and now it could be too high level?
What another great system
maiden ravine
I think they just tuned it wrong or something
it feels bugged compared to everything else
cinder roost
Well maybe that and the fact that you get lvl1 follower while other are 20 and troops scales down
granite cloud
jesus christ enchanters are making a killing right now on elethium bars
chilly brook
Enchanted are making a killing period
Enchants are going for a pretty penny tbh
I think it was close to 10k or more to get a full enchant suite on my warrior
fallow mortar
Elethium is rather hard to get
The fact that they are needed for legendaries drives the price up more
maiden ravine
it takes you like 30 eternal crystals to get 115 enchanting
I promise they're putting a lot of money in to do it
fallow mortar
Just disenchant your mythic gear you get :P
maiden ravine
I'm still 20 points away cause I don't want to pay 150k gold for it
I have been de'ing extras
chilly brook
After reading that comment on wowhead I feel like I need to out out another guide like in 8.0
maiden ravine
Blood Elves get it easier, but that's it haha
chilly brook
maiden ravine
it's expensive to level enchanting, which is why most people haven't done it
Is it worth farming 200 conquest to get the Stalwart Guardian conduit?
chilly brook
Remind me what it does
maiden ravine
that's the -30s on Shield Wall CD
charred egret
if i use bolster instead of anger management is into the fray worth to use it for thunderlord legendary?
maiden ravine
Ravager still better
chilly brook
that's the -30s on Shield Wall CD
Afaik only with the wall and AM
maiden ravine
ah, it can drop, from stone legion generals heroic
I think 200 conquest would be faster haha
chilly brook
if i use bolster instead of anger management is into the fray worth to use it fo...
Only time you'd really take itf is for single target pumping
maiden ravine
oof, Hadn't looked at warrior loot. We really need to go to the council for a shot at our main hand
My bear gets his off the second boss
maiden ravine
the wall?
fallow mortar
Is it worth farming 200 conquest to get the Stalwart Guardian conduit?
you are better off getting it in raid
but if you don't mind pvp, then go for it
chilly brook
the wall?
Superstrain, I'm giving DK a try per request
If I continue to dislike it woyer is on the menu
granite cloud
What would y'all blacksmiths say the best thing to grind and sell on the ah is
chilly brook
Depends on your server
Likely whatever is the least crafted but still relevant to a class or two
tranquil night
what covenant are most going for prot ?
fallow mortar
kyrian
vestal burrow
necrolords with fleshcraft on moving spec, is it really horrible?
fleshcraft with 10k-15k absorb seems legit then clicking on a steward in the middle of a boss
any ideas?
chilly brook
fleshcraft with 10k-15k absorb seems legit then clicking on a steward in the mid...
-
fleshcraft is only useful before a pull, using it in combat is horrible
-
you summon your steward and you get 3 potions from him as soon as he comes out, there is no clicking on him in the middle of a boss fight
vestal burrow
Ok, I was checking it on Pally and it seemed a mess
Rerolling for a new a covenant, how painful will it be?
chilly brook
Its quite simply one of the easiest and most effective things you could have as a tank
Baseline 20% heal with a cleanse
And it can go up to like 50% iirc
Its not painful at all assuming you've never been a part of said covenant
vestal burrow
That sounds good on a low cd skill for sure, alright will jump the Kyrian train then
Thnx )
sudden kayak
hello warriors was wondering if any one can help me was wondering if any one uses whirlwind in dungeons or we should use revenge instead im looking at this wowhead guide
sweet summit
never use whirlwind
ionic fern
In general dps ones. Once you get higher into m+ you can swap one dps out for a GOOD tank trinket.
Unfortunately there are not a lot of good tank trinkets tho
sudden kayak
kk ty mwahi
also noticed in bfa when you had that talent for demoarlizing you got more rage to put into ignore pain now in shadowlands theres a cap sorta up to 5k something i think 5999 so how do we mitigate a little better im using ignore pain and shield block just pull less i assume?
sweet summit
ignore pain scales off AP, and is capped at 2x the base value compared to the 1.3x cap in BFA
SB/IP priority has not changed
you keep up SB as long as youre taking blockable damage, and compliment with IP to smooth damage
if youre not taking blockable damage, you use IP with other cooldowns if needed
sudden kayak
kk i gota use shield block more ty
glossy topaz
So ip not scale with versa ?
sweet summit
it does
Fight through the pain, ignoring 50% of damage taken, up to [(0 + Attack power * 3.5) * (1 + Versatility)] total damage prevented.
sudden kayak
so the way to get more bigger ignore pain is ap and vers im guna enchant then
sudden kayak
o kk
sweet summit
you want more haste for lower shield block/shield slam/thunder clap cooldown, shorter GCD etc so you have higher rage generation too
sudden kayak
kk
earnest lava
Any opinions on the PvP haste and proc trinks?
strong forum
Is gud
sweet summit
no cap
ilvl>>haste tho
all stats are good, so generally we just want more stats
but at equal item level we perfer the item with more haste
glossy topaz
Okay. Ty
slow phoenix
What conduits do I run in m+ as venthyr?
fallow mortar
good question. Are you choosing Nadjya or Theotar?
slow phoenix
Probably Theotar unless Nadjia is significantly better
fallow mortar
if you are going the endurance side, I am running unnerving focus. For Finesse side I am running inspiring presence. I am favoring the defensive side atm and when the potence slot is unlocked I will using Show of Force
slow phoenix
Unnerving focus > Brutal Vitality?
fallow mortar
I don't have brutal vitality ๐
slow phoenix
So Unnerving focus < Brutal Vitality?
fallow mortar
It is more a preference at that point
sweet summit
id probably go theotar with brutal vitality
slow phoenix
ait ty
fallow mortar
How did you guys get brutal vitality? >.>
sweet summit
calling cache
slow phoenix
no clue
fallow mortar
so luck has betrayed me
astral crystal
WQ
slow phoenix
Next question lmao - are you going Dragon Roar or Booming voice
sweet summit
BV
slow phoenix
and do you think we want Punish over devastator?
fallow mortar
nope
sweet summit
devastator is better pretty much everywhere
fallow mortar
also, found a WQ giving brutal vitality, fucking yoink
sweet summit
punish could see play on heavy hitting raid bosses perhaps
fallow mortar
why punish when you can 
sweet summit
im not a condoomer
fallow mortar
I just wanted to make the pun
muted dagger
Is warrior tank pretty rubbish for aoe threat gen when low geared or I am I just doing it wrong?
fallow mortar
prob doing it wrong
sweet summit
are you playing with dps that have way higher gear than you?
muted dagger
is 30/40 points considered way higher. I know 1/2 dungeons had people with that level
sweet summit
30-40 overall item levels is a lot, if thats what youre refering to
fallow mortar
Are you going through a normal or mythic dungeon?
astral crystal
what are your talents also
orchid frigate
Does it matter if I choose feet or hands for legendary?
sweet summit
boots are slightly better
honest plinth
also there are no haste vers boots in raid
orchid frigate
Thanks!
honest plinth
ok its time to test your skillz http://tacticalairhorse.com/castle-pineapplia/en/
gentle trellis
yo, i simmed some pwar builds. pls discuss. no legendaries, soulbinds or conduits went into these calcs
honest plinth
bsc is dead talent
sweet summit
same results as we are getting pretty much
honest plinth
you will need rage for ips, sbs. not for revenge spam in real content
gentle trellis
with ravager + spear u have a crazy amount of rage gen for revenge / ip
honest plinth
๐
sweet summit
depends on how strict your revenge/sb/ip conditions are in the sim
but BSC is good for dps
honest plinth
also it seems like you have low haste with your gear so itf is outsimming ravager
sweet summit
ITF is most likely better than ravager on ST with the limited gear we have available rn
gentle trellis
ofc, like almost every pwar at this point
honest plinth
i have 21% ravager is better for me
gentle trellis
mind to sim it for you?
sweet summit
raidbots will be updated for prot next reset
cinder roost
I'm surprised BSC/ITF is ahead of BSC/Rav in AoE
still pagoda
bsc is dead talent
smh it simmed the best on ST for everyone
sweet summit
and right now you can run whatever you want cos we're only doing m0s anyway
honest plinth
i mean you rly will pick bsc?
still pagoda
I'm surprised BSC/ITF is ahead of BSC/Rav in AoE
ITF is nowhere surprising tbh. Noticed its small damage boost during pre-patch
honest plinth
its just dps
sweet summit
these sims are without TGV too
honest plinth
i mean mastery is best stat for our dps but its lowest prio
sweet summit
BV value will increase, but so will BSC tbf
still pagoda
with SR
BV+TGV and BSC+SR may actually compete for padding
i guess it will depend on the situation
cinder roost
@still pagoda Maybe cause of the fight length? Rav should be ahead on real conditions I feel like
still pagoda
depends what conditions
cinder roost
Chaining pack
honest plinth
for padding ye. not for threatening content
sweet summit
in m+ youd probably still take ravager
still pagoda
when talking of ItF, it pulls ahead on ST
sweet summit
and BV
still pagoda
m+ is ravager territory unless they will buff ItF to its former numbers
Maybe even higher... 
cinder roost
We were just discussing itf vs rav DPS, not the viability for high content ๐
still pagoda
ItF pulls slightly ahead on ST
ravager is a go-to for aoe and cleave still
talking pure DPS
sweet summit
but keep in mind, i have no idea what im doing
still pagoda
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
cinder roost
Did you look at Scarr sims? That's what I was referring to
still pagoda
but keep in mind, no one has idea what we are doing*
cinder roost
But I don't know if they are accurate
worthy ingot
Sharpening stone or shadow oil ๐ค
sweet summit
oil
honest plinth
cinder roost
I'm so sad about that
gentle trellis
this just in. i simmed cobas 21% haste pwar. the fact that he does less dps than me comes from the hook trinket that im using... i guess
yet the best dps talents, even with 21% still remain the same
worthy ingot
Crit/Mastery on The Wall in new simcraft, nani!?
honest plinth
guys
mastery and crit highest dps stats for us
thats doesnt matter
we stil lcollect haste and vers
sims are all about dps
same about talents
ill never pick bsc
never
its dead
and ill be dead in real content
gentle trellis
dont mastery + crit just flat increases when haste increases rage gen, sb uptime, etc
honest plinth
more want dps? collect mastery items
wlll you be good as guy who collect haste?
no
honest plinth
dont mastery + crit just flat increases when haste increases rage gen, sb uptime...
sim stat weights
mastery is king for dps
but again lowest prio for us
open monolith
you guys see the patchwerk logs for dps sims?
Shocked to see some of those classes so high
still pagoda
not surprised considering the state in which SL released
lots of metajunkies got up their asses with raw simc data
open monolith
what uh... what does that have to do with certain classes simming high?
still pagoda
state of balance blizz left in last patches of beta
that came all the way to launch
so just wait for mythic tuning
and yeah, people were already going completely mental over raw patchwerk sims
open monolith
I feel as though the balance I currently see isn't what was in the last beta
sweet summit
pog
open monolith
enhancement is like 5th in patchwerk
that is a shock
outlaw is 6th
I don't ever recall those two being so high in beta
warriors are 3rd in terms of "least damage taken per second"
feels good
still pagoda
warriors are 3rd in terms of "least damage taken per second"
a better way to put it: There is no reason to panic as it is just difference in damage profiles
open monolith
I don't believe that is a better way to frame my statement, no, but yes that is also true.
open monolith
here is what I'm looking at. 2nd chart is the one "updated" with conduits and stuff. All grain of salt, because no human can play like a sim
still pagoda
you will maximize performance and make it smooth on any tank spec if you want. With the data of different damage profiles as per EDTPS(you can count this as EDTPS=DTPS-HPS), it just tells a bit more on how to maximize it
strange mist
Yo Guys, quick question - is it hard to Solo / duo troghast as prot warri? Friends of mine are boosting runs as Prot Pala and Blood DK, just wanted to know if Prot Warri coud do the same ๐
sweet summit
its very easy, very doable to solo boost
open monolith
hmmm how much should I charge for layer 3 duo torghast
sweet summit
idk ask trade chat
open monolith
I wonder how desperate people will be to get through layer 3 before reset for people who can't do it
I also wonder if I can solo a duo layer 3...
honest plinth
yes you can
calm prawn
So trying to get started with mythics what ilvl should I be?
sweet summit
doable at 130, anything above 150 should be very comfortable, 170 and youre vibing hard
mostly depends on if youre puging or not, making your own groups or joining pugs etc
calm prawn
Mk legit thinking of playing tanks for pve this expac
calm prawn
I legit can't believe people can't do layer 3 torghast
open monolith
It is legitimately quite difficult for some classes
it's not 100% a "git gud"
it's about 70% git gud and 30% holy shit this class is squishy and has no good anima powers to make it better
calm prawn
I guess
Frost dk from my experience was a pain last week
Took 3 hours of bashing my head against a wall
open monolith
well if you have personal experience with it being difficult, surely you CAN believe some people can't do it
remember: the vast majority of the player base is not good. They don't read guides, they don't read rotations, etc
calm prawn
I mean I can see it but not for a absurd price I've seen people advertise lmfao.
And true.
calm prawn
Just charge lower than people in trade chat
open monolith
blech. This means I'll have to rejoin and actually read trade chat
neat lagoon
Has anyone here been using the Haste on use Darkmoon Card trinket?
Debating on if I should pick it up, seems solid
open monolith
Yeah it's fine.
im not a fan of having 2 on-use trinkets, though, and the Hakkar trinket feels mandatory
neat lagoon
correct it is dope, i dont have that yet. I am rocking the 2 PvP trinkets (ive done all mythics this week and some last but no trinket) that give me the haste bonus and the primary stat
I was going to use the haste pvp trinket with the chance on hit effect and then the DMF trinket?
open monolith
bro
go spam heroic De Other Side
they took off the daily lockout
get yourself a 171 hakkar trinket
neat lagoon
/salute im on it!
open monolith
it's so god damn good
open monolith
is that the one that leaves a pool of hastey goodness?
neat lagoon
yes lol
open monolith
I personally really like that one
neat lagoon
ill aim for them both and save 45k
open monolith
though it does get annoying when it spawns the pool at the spot you USED charge
rather than where you land ๐ฆ
but the uptime on it is pretty crazy
neat lagoon
well i got a plan for the day than. ty sock
open monolith
o7
honest plinth
hakkar and phial are in pre raid bis . is this haste trinket better than phial?
open monolith
i think phial is probably best for big dick deeps
but the hastey pool is great when you don't need to move around a lot. Pretty damn decent up time on the haste pool
steel mauve
the haste pool is hit or miss, usually trinkets like that are decent to good whenn you dont need to move, but it procs randomly and some times you have to move when it procs
in past expansions those trinkets have usually been passed over except by hardcore fans who like them due to that fact of randomly proccing
sweet kayak
Did they had like an item scale up buff for m+ on beta?
open monolith
wat
sweet summit
gear did scale on beta for m+, but not for the entire beta
sweet kayak
Well I am watching a M15+ run on beta, and they doing it with 140 ilvl ๐
steel mauve
oh, no they didnt have a buff oin beta that scaled their gear, they just did it i think
sweet kayak
Are you? he can't have like 63k hp with 142 ilvl, they must have be like a buff only inside beta m+ for gear scaling
jagged pier
gear got scaled in m+ but there wasnt a buff and it wouldnt show on char screen it looked like time walking but scaled up instead of down
does dpeend what point in beta though
open monolith
I N V I S I B L E B U F F S
sweet kayak
Right, that's sense now, thanks!
chilly brook
this just in. i simmed cobas 21% haste pwar. the fact that he does less dps than...
Late to the party but hectic add cleave isn't great for determining actual aoe damage
Go with patchwerk multi boss instead to get a somewhat more realistic view
And obviously dont do a 5m fight I forget the general timing
Since no trash pack lasts for 5 minutes
chilly brook
gear did scale on beta for m+, but not for the entire beta
Iirc when I got beta access there was no gear scaling, which was like maybe 2 months before release
I know it did exist though at one point
sweet summit
there was scaling at the start, then they took it away for a while, and like at the very end they brought it back again
chilly brook
Yep
still pagoda
and we don't know what will be the main key-to-ilvl cap yet
chilly brook
On all tanks pretty much
still pagoda
i'm betting on +10
chilly brook
still pagoda
cerulean quest
Has anyone made the Thunderlord leggo yet? Equip'd it? Is that even possible/
cerulean quest
Waiting for the wall?
cerulean quest
haha yeah fair
I'll just sit on the thunderlord one for now then
wait and see
which slot is best to get it in?
sweet summit
boots
gentle trellis
Late to the party but hectic add cleave isn't great for determining actual aoe d...
thanks for the input!
strong forum
and we don't know what will be the main key-to-ilvl cap yet
+6 is the most likely assumption
still pagoda
i'm talking of the general cap for Season 1
not the first week
yes, blizzard worked with +15 during beta
but that doesn't mean that they are set on it
steel mauve
they doing it differently this expansion? usually its always +10 for the first tier then up[ it to 15 for tier 2 or 3
cerulean quest
Boots ok - i might do it tonight...
steel mauve
just looked it up, during 7.2 in legion the highest keystone level to cap for gear was still a 10
strong forum
I came back only in 7.2.5 so I don't remember
steel mauve
ya theyve always started out capped at a 10 and then upped it later, i think usually in tier 3
open monolith
Ew do I see people ACTUALLY using ITF?
still pagoda
honest plinth
ST
steel mauve
itf isnt bad, its better single target but doesnt compete in aoe, but again just because some thing isnt the best, doesnt make it useless
steel mauve
we deal with that enough as is with the youtube tier lists out there
open monolith
WARRIOR BAD
sweet summit
still pagoda
honest plinth
open monolith
I am C O N S U M I N G wowhead content so I can be an elitist on tuesday for my normal and heroic pugs. "KNOW THE FIGHTS - READ A GUIDE" is what my recruitment post will say
primal saddle
tfw Americans have to get 1 days head start to be competative with the euros smh
primal saddle
I could point out it was sarcasm but I like the idea that you actually got upset by the statement
open monolith
so I've always been a huge proponent of: "DBM / BigWigs makes fights too easy". I still stand by that to this day and usually refuse to use them (and have never had any problems without them). However, one of the fights in Castle Nathria seems to borderline require it, and it makes me a sad tank
no I didn't get upset by it
timber lagoon
Rolled venthyr for fury, now might be tanking mythic+ for the guild. Condemn is just bad for prot yeah? Feels bad spending rage on it.
open monolith
It's pretty okay in single target
it's pretty bad once you have more than 1 target
it's somewhat on-par with Ignore Pain for damage reduction on a single target fight, so using rage on it isn't awful, but the moment there is 1 other target, it's pretty awful for tanking
fading salmon
@timber lagoon Was just about to ask the same question; I'm in the same boat.
open monolith
Like, you won't be so crippled by being Venthyr that you can't clear content.
fading salmon
Not sure if I should just bite the bullet and switch to Kyrian.
timber lagoon
Ok great thanks. Condemn just feels so good for fury rotation
open monolith
if you're a DPS main and only tanking on the side, don't switch. (although Kyrian isn't super far behind venthyr for dps)
torn kernel
@timber lagoon rolled vent for arms and went kyrian for the same reason ure describing. Loved condem but kyrian does feel nice in mythics as arms and prot so I donโt really regret going for kyrian. The spear is pretty nice to have and play with
open monolith
at the end of the day, if you aren't in a World first race, use what you enjoy
fading salmon
But then again, what if we're asked to DPS in CN as fury/arms?
Wouldnt spear suck ass on ST?
fading salmon
That works too lol
timber lagoon
Yeam I'm dps main for raiding, I'll just stick venthyr
open monolith
i don't believe spear "sucks ass" for ST, at least not for arms
it's behind Condemn, yes
but it isn't cripplingly bad
timber lagoon
Kyrian not that far behind venthyr for dps specs ST
open monolith
it is less cripplingly bad for ST dps than Condemn is for aoe tanking ๐ฎ
fading salmon
Yeah that does make sense, agreed.
open monolith
but, again. You're not a world first raider (I assume), so it's all irrelevant. use what you enjoy
torn kernel
Like 3% behind i believe
open monolith
did anyone do any beta raiding
I'm curious to know how mandatory DBM or some kind of timer is going to be for the 2nd add on Huntsman Altimor
sweet summit
why would you not have a boss timer addon/wa
sweet summit
thats like cutting off your foot because you dont like wearing shoes
open monolith
I cleared all 10 man raiding achievements back in WOTLK without it just fine. I even downloaded some addon that faked it so I wouldn't be kicked lol
Eh, not at all. I just don't think it is mandatory. I enjoy the challenge of keeping my eyes open for debuffs and cast bars and react accordingly.
I find the giant sirens and flashing screen shit to be obnoxious and too hand-holdy
this is personal preference and blame nobody for using them
I just get concerned when I see certain boss mechanics that seem to require a pre-emptive move rather than a reaction
because that basically requires either mentally tracking 60 seconds constantly, or having a boss timer.
Huntsman altimor 2nd add has something like this where it spawns 2 adds that MUST be dropped away from the raid to ensure the CC on them doesn't break
open monolith
That's pretty dismissive and didn't really answer the question, but thanks I guess
open monolith
what's hard to understand
I don't like it because it is too hand-holdy for me
I enjoy the extra challenge
that's not a difficult concept o.o
sweet summit
if you want an extra challange just do harder content 4head 
open monolith
I do the content I have time for.
sweet summit
to me raiding is like a team effort, and i dont want to drag my team down
open monolith
I don't drag any groups down.
I am perfectly capable of doing mechanics without DBM.
If there is a mechanic that is unreasonable to expect someone to be able to track WITHOUT the use of an add-on, that is where I get concerned.
So if Bigwigs or DBM is customizable to the point that I can turn literally everything off except for that ONE mechanic, then I guess I'll have to pick it up
jaunty agate
Wow you sound fun at parties
open monolith
I don't see how anything I've said, at all, garners that response from you
But thanks
sweet summit
that was an unnecessary comment lewb
open monolith
Content that I'm not concerned about:
X ability happens every 60 seconds. X ability has a cast time of Y which is enough time to react to it alone.
Content that I AM concerned about:
X ability happens every 60 seconds. X ability has a cast time of Y which is NOT enough time to react to it alone.
^ that's not pretentious. That's not annoying. I don't understand why you'd say that to me Lewb, lol
merry elbow
can I take devestate off my bars or are there going to be cases where I should switch off devestator?
merry elbow
awesome
open monolith
I replaced my 1 key with spear ๐
merry elbow
got shield-stomp-shout on my 1-2-3
thought I would miss devestate but after playing without it's quite nice
open monolith
1 - spear 2 - shield 3 - tclap 4 - revenge
pretty sure my shout is like... alt-2
primal saddle
spear is only marginally worse on ST than condemn for dps
sweet summit
whered you see that ๐
primal saddle
and its the go to for pvp so its overall beast at being kack of all trades if you want it
the sims
sweet summit
where
primal saddle
in the pins
primal saddle
both
sweet summit
ya ok i thought you meant prot
primal saddle
I imagine its very similar for prot
condem best for st on dps followed by nightfae and kyrian not far behind
and necrolords some where down below
sweet summit
couple % yeah
open monolith
what are our chase trinkets in the raid?
strong forum
Gluttonous Spike and Sanguine Vintage
open monolith
aww, no splintered crutch of a'lar?
strong forum
the leash? no
signal plover
man destroyer is gonna be a beeg boss for us
strong forum
yup
open monolith
whatchoo mean
sweet summit
darkvein ring makes me moist
strong forum
destroyer drops the only shoulders
sweet summit
denathrius ring too
strong forum
good trinket
open monolith
wall
strong forum
and leggo
open monolith
gotcha
open monolith
yeah
worthy grail
I have a question, I get that ignore pain will direct 50% of the incoming damage to me and the other half to my sheild generated from it, but will the remaining damage that broke the shield be directed to me ? or does that just disappear
worthy grail
like if my 3 k sheild takes a 5k dmg proc, do I take the remaining 2 k as full damage
open monolith
yes
strong forum
if you have a 2k shield, and take 10k dmg, the shield absorbs 2k and you get hit for 8k
if you have a 2k shield and take 3k damage, you take 1.5k and have 500 shield left
still pagoda
if you have a 2k shield and take 3k damage, you take 1.5k and have 500 shield le...
that is for IP
not all shields
strong forum
yes
open monolith
because he asked about IP
worthy grail
okay but my instance is I have a 2 k shield from my Ignore pain, and I get hit with 5 k dmg
so I take 2.5 k , and then my sheild does also
strong forum
you take 3k
open monolith
a shield can only absorb as much as its value is worth
strong forum
your shield will break, absorb its 2k, youre gonna get hit for the rest
open monolith
any remaining damage goes to you
worthy grail
and the remaining damage, is that still going to be midigated
strong forum
no
worthy grail
or is that going to be the full 1x damage
open monolith
in your example you take 3k.
strong forum
otherwise IP would be the most broken thing in the game
cuz all you would need would be 1 small tiny IP
to make 50% of all damage disappear
that would be broken as hell
open monolith
what do you mean that sounds fair. if I have a 1 HP ignore pain left and I take 10k damage, I should only take 5k
๐
strong forum
thats how the absorbatron used to work
in BFA, from engi goggles
it was a 100% dmg redirection that would ignore limits
so it would eat entire mechanics
worthy grail
thats how nzoth trink worked
strong forum
not that i know off
worthy grail
all the inc damage was negated even if it broke the shield
signal plover
ok but so then you take never surrender and...
strong forum
then you uninstall
signal plover
pa ra pa pum pum
strong forum
even in general
still pagoda
strong forum
miss me with christmas shit
if you ask me, christmas could be every 5 years
eveything else is too frequent
primal crypt
Merry Christmas ๐
lofty nexus
Merry Christmas
sweet summit
no
worthy grail
Thanks for your help by the way !
open monolith
I'd be fine with Christmas disappearing
except... the toddler sure does get excited about it :\ so maybe not
tropic cobalt
Is it jsut me or is there kinda long downtime periods. More so on 1-2 targets. Like no rage is coming in and youre just hoping not to get clapped.
Playing with devastator
open monolith
occasionally this happens, yes
if by "long" you mean like... 2 -3 seconds tops
which certainly feels long when you're getting clapped
tropic cobalt
Feels horrible. But hopefully itll fuck off with more haste?
leaden steeple
if I enchant ring that has haste on it with haste enchant, does it overwrite the original haste?
been years since I last played
sweet summit
yes, the new one overwrites the old one
honest plinth
how many 14s i should clear for 3 items in vault?
strong forum
how many 14s i should clear for 3 items in vault?
10
honest plinth
so 15 or 10? ๐
strong forum
10
sweet summit
isnt 10 just two
strong forum
15 is the old
sweet summit
oh my bad
sweet summit
its hard to keep up...
open monolith
@leaden steeple did you mean like, a new haste enchant overriding a previous, or the haste enchant removing the haste stat on the ring?
strong forum
do you even beta bro
open monolith
so if you clear a +10 you get max vault stuff?
sweet summit
you can only get one item still tho, but the more you do the more items you can pick from
open monolith
oh
strong forum
you can do 1/4/10
open monolith
so it's not more items, it's more choices
sweet summit
yes
strong forum
1 for 1 choice, 4 for 2 choices, 10 for 3 choices
strong forum
great vault is gonna be insanely good
sweet summit
yeah i think so too
open monolith
gotcha.
strong forum
+14 rewards 226 weekly. 207 end of run ( starting on mythic week )
open monolith
wish I had the time to do enough to totally max out my vault, but I definitely never will lol
sweet summit
m+ things still give m+ loot and raid gives raid loot and pvp gives pvp loot
or did they change that too
open monolith
207 will be maxed end of dungeon drop? so not even heroic raid level gear?
strong forum
its all seperate yes
sweet summit
yeah ok good
open monolith
that's..... dumb
i don't remember m+ capping below heroic raiding in bfa
maybe i am misremembering
strong forum
(they did this to prevent people from trading heroic split loot)
it was 5 ilvl higher than heroic in bfa
actually
open monolith
well... that certainly makes players like me with no desire to raid feel kinda bad
leaden steeple
<@!266989763746070529> did you mean like, a new haste enchant overriding a prev...
If I have 105 haste on ring and want to put +15 haste enchant on it, the original 105 would disappear?
strong forum
no, you would get +15 ontop of it
open monolith
that's why I wanted to clarify
strong forum
ye i read it like that too, but i thought thats a little too outlandish
you get the 105 from ring + the 15 from the enchantment
@leaden steeple enchants are only beneficial they will NOT take 90+ stats away from your gear 
leaden steeple
ah ok as I said havent played in years wanted to be sure ๐
open monolith
it has never been like that ๐
and never will be
(hopefully)
so do you only get ONE item from the vault, period?
or do you get one for each activity?
open monolith
sweet
and do bosses only drop 3 pieces of loot on ALL Difficulties, or just mythic?
strong forum
the highest difficulty you cleared
strong forum
ah
3 on mythic, rest depends on raid size
i imagine 30man raid would be 5 pieces
25 would be 4
open monolith
so a 10 man raid would be ideal for loot per person?
is 10 man raiding evne a thing anymore?
15?
it's been so long
open monolith
10 man raiding was always my favorite
strong forum
same
open monolith
more intimate
open monolith
so if only 3 pieces of loot drop at both 10 man and 15 man and 20 man..... why would anyone make a big raid for normal and heroic?
signal plover
because you have a roster of 25 and dont wanna bother with splits
sick sentinel
is protection warrior any good? im thinking about playing my first tank and i have a dh lvl43 and a warrior lvl52. what would you guys go for as a first tanking experience?
strong forum
is protection warrior any good? im thinking about playing my first tank and i ha...
warri is a-ok
for first tanking experience it may be a bit challenging
open monolith
Is there anything anywhere that actually says loot works that way? the only thing I read is "mythic drops 3 pieces, period"
@sick sentinel Warrior is excellent at tanking, if perhaps a bit more challenging to play well than some of the others.
strong forum
Is there anything anywhere that actually says loot works that way? the only thin...
its an assumption, i would be surprised if there was more drops in heroic and normal
they want to remove loot overflow, so they lowered amount of items dropping
sick sentinel
<@456226577798135808> Warrior is **excellent** at tanking, if perhaps a bit more...
so not great as a first experience, maybe.-...
open monolith
It's fine as first experience, as well
it's not as easy as, say, brewmaster
but it is totally doable
limpid pawn
Anyone using unstoppable force and booming voice?
strong forum
depends on how quickly you pick up on stuff, very punishing if you make mistakes
open monolith
@limpid pawn yes
limpid pawn
Is that less damage than dragons roar and ravager combo
strong forum
Anyone using unstoppable force and booming voice?
UF is big doodoo, dont like, its a DPS loss everywhere unless youre playing TGV+AM+UF
you dont play dragon roar anymore
signal plover
it's also clunk
open monolith
dragon roar is suck
visual drift
Is avoidance strong? got two items but not sure if i want more vers vs haste
But i can' measure avoidance as stat
strong forum
dragon roar is kill
strong forum
Is avoidance strong? got two items but not sure if i want more vers vs haste
But...
Avoidance is to be ignored
limpid pawn
What changed from prepatch till now
open monolith
pick the one with haste
limpid pawn
Making DR bad?
signal plover
the added a target sofft cap
open monolith
target cap
steel mauve
you ignore tertiaries and just value secondary stats
steel mauve
think of tertiaries as nice to have but you dont gear around them
visual drift
Thank you nomeratur. So the haste legs are better. Got it.
strong forum
always
signal plover
unless you ask about christmas
strong forum
ilvl >> haste >>> vers=crit>mastery > speed/avoidance/leech
prisma gorge
is it worthy to buy BOE shield from 151 to 190?
strong forum
its relatively cheap, id say yes unless you plan on doing an m0 sweep on reset
kindred crypt
you dont play dragon roar anymore
You don't? I better change my talents now D:
open monolith
you can spam theater of pain heroic (no more daily reset) to get a 171 shield
steel mauve
depends on how you value gold but theres a really good shield at like 184 from a mythoc 0
open monolith
for free
signal plover
you can also get a shield from pvp vendor
strong forum
mmmh
signal plover
and rank it up to 171 in like 1 epic BG win
open monolith
is 19 ilvl worth 20% of your balance to you?
steel mauve
i wouldnt spend 20% of my gold on a boe i can easily get near that ilvl that will probably only last a week or 2
open monolith
because, like I said, free 171 shield from heroic theater of pain which is farmable
steel mauve
and tuesday raid comes out and have a chance at a 200/213 ilvl shield
open monolith
if a 190 boe was worht like, less than 2% of my total balance, I'd buy it.
personally.
limpid pawn
Not worth it now
You have a other m0 reset before raid comes out
And heroic drops 171
Then mythic plus also comes out which will make it obsolete
steel mauve
normal/heroic raid comes out tuesday
still pagoda
You have a other m0 reset before raid comes out
M+
Just around the corner
time to farm like a maniac
limpid pawn
Is m+ coming out with raid
steel mauve
i bought the tank dmc but thats a just in case
steel mauve
and it was like 10k
cloud cargo
hello guys, what stats you prefer on prot war ?
honest plinth
hello guys, what stats you prefer on prot war ?
haste
lucid geyser
your shield will break, absorb its 2k, youre gonna get hit for the rest
I just caught up on the IP discussion from earlier. Dies this mean and soon as the hit is bigger than the IP shield, we effectively loose the 50% damage reduction?
still pagoda
hello guys, what stats you prefer on prot war ?
ilvl >> haste > vers = crit > mastery
dusty schooner
so the noxxic is rigth ?
still pagoda
there's no preference so to speak
still pagoda
so the noxxic is rigth ?
noxxic is garbage anyway
cloud cargo
thanks ๐
steel mauve
i would literally never go to noxxic
still pagoda
doesn't matter if it is right on this or not
steel mauve
noxxic is an abomination of a website and im pretty sure when they are actually corect on some thing its by complete accident
prisma gorge
Are you using offensive or deffensive conduits?
sweet summit
im using piercing verdict
still pagoda
piercing verdict atm
cloud cargo
im using venthyr
still pagoda
will just put in Shield Wall conduit into second slot when weekly reset hits
warm warren
are prot warriors good or bad?
sweet summit
good
signal plover
Good
autumn pendant
signal plover
At the same time, no tank is "bad"
strong forum
I just caught up on the IP discussion from earlier. Dies this mean and soon as t...
no, ignore pain always absorbs however absorb it has left
if the dmg intake surpasses the absorbs, obviously you lose the mitigation off of it
thats how absorbs work
lucid geyser
Ah I'm dumb. We still take half the damage directly, it doesn't just disappear
strong forum
yes
lucid geyser
Yah thanks, my bad
still pagoda
are prot warriors good or bad?
just go on with whatever you like to play and master it
cloud cargo
i dont know what trinkets are best, can u help me ? ๐ i am not sure with darkmoon deck
steel mauve
currently tank dmc is bad, but there are guides in the #268491842637660160 and in the pins that answer all basic questions
strong forum
voracity is a really good darkmoon deck
still pagoda
voracity is good
strong forum
Hakkar trinket is very very good trinket
still pagoda
indomitable deck is meh
cloud cargo
currently tank dmc is bad, but there are guides in the <#268491842637660160> and...
i saw guides, but there are many options anyway
thx
open monolith
is there any point that a higher ilvl potency conduit beats spear conduit green?
eternal quail
I have a potentially stupid question, once you do your M0 for the week, do you or do you not see any monsters in the M0 you're locked to if you zone in again? If you do see monsters in there again but you can't loot... are memories restricted the same way? As in there's no chance of seeing M0 memories? Racking my brain about it, as I said, potentially dumb question.
open monolith
if you reset the dungeon, you'll see mobs again
otherwise it should be clear
and you can't get memories after 1st attemp[t
however
you can get them from heroic and normal
so just spam heroic/normal fo rthem
eternal quail
Gotcha, that's what I wondered about, thanks man.
sick sentinel
Does someone knows if Unbreakable will is raid wide or only party wide ?
I know that it's written "party" , but it's created from the T13 that was raid wide, so maybe ... ?
Thanks guys
strong forum
party wide
sick sentinel
Okay RIP , thanks man
strong forum
open monolith
i mean to his credit, he DID recognize that it said party specifically
he was just hopeful it meant raid lol
open monolith
hush, you
we are needed for battleshout. not like anyone is gonna bring a fury or arms LOL
strong forum
arms has a spot
kindred crypt
Does the raid leggo recipe also drop in lfr?
open monolith
it should, but is LFR even going to be a thing next week?
i thought LFR comes later
strong forum
LFR comes with mythic, and then in wings
so youre better off just doing normal raid
strong forum
supposedly
undone sun
The more repeatable the content is, the lower the drop chance of the Recipe. If the source is a World Boss that's up once every 4 weeks, it will be a 100% drop.
open monolith
nobody knows yet, but that is the assumption
open monolith
im willing to bet: normal is like 25%, heroic & mythic is like 50%
i am hopeful that isn't the case
kindred crypt
Would be bad for me if that's the case D:
kindred crypt
I am just lazy :3
But if I need to I can probably try to do to a normal every week
inland garnet
Does Unhinged work for Protection? Just curious
hollow cave
Are there any Nercolords warriors out there in order to collect their consideration on the covenant?
open monolith
There are a few in here, haven't seen them around recently though
If your heart is set on necrolords because you love the mog / story / etc, go for it
inland garnet
I was about to fall for Necro until I played out the zone and the story
super lame
and ugly green :)))
hollow cave
If your heart is set on necrolords because you love the mog / story / etc, go fo...
i trying to understand more about the value of the abilities
open monolith
If you don't care about the story or cosmetics, and you want powerful abilities
don't go Necrolord as a prot warrior
Kyrian is arguable "best" with Nightfae as a very reasonable 2nd or "tied for best"
Venthyr / Necrolord are usually not considered as something you want to go for prot, but also won't make you useless if you do
hollow cave
i would like to hear valuable reasons...
open monolith
because the abilities are good o.o
Spear gives you snap aggro, and instant rage
it does great damage
and it also provides utility for kiting which is valuable in m+ / PvP
it is also very useful for DPS specs
jagged pier
20% hp and crit on a 3 min cd is just bad for prot warrior
open monolith
Night Fae does more damage and gives more rage than Spear, but over a longer period of time + the mobs have to stay in the aoe
hollow cave
have you ever used necrolords?
open monolith
yes...
strong forum
yea during leveling, terrible
jagged pier
yes on beta
hollow cave
yea during leveling, terrible
whats your though about it
open monolith
the part after the comma
mellow patio
I would reckon terrible
strong forum
the 3min CD is very much offputting, the crit dmg gain and crit chance gain is very small, you cannot squeeze enough SSs into the Banner window to get meaningful amount of stacks
the small stationary radius off it hampers you immensly
the Soulbinds themselves arent very enticing and Fleshcraft is borderline useless from a practical standpoint
its very much playable if you want to, but its just not good
hollow cave
mmh i see, but what about buffing allies? do you think is has some value afterall?
still pagoda
buffing allies is the same question as with PI of priest
hollow cave
its 2 atm
still pagoda
barely gives anything to allies
strong forum
the small radius and stationary behaviour is not good for alot of situations
barren anvil
Hey guys im new here. Im thinking about rolling prot warrior for m+ what do you think about its potential compared to other tanks is it really dat underperfroming compared to others as people say?
open monolith
It's not underperforming
barren anvil
Thunderlord is bis legendary am i right?
still pagoda
btw. That guild i parted ways with. They are searching exclusively for BDK/BrM now
strong forum
Warri has very high potential of becoming a very good high m+ tank due to it being a Mitigation tank, it definetely has a spot with good ilvl
open monolith
Thunderlord is probably best for mythic+ specifically
still pagoda
some random no-names looking for S tier tank spec user instead of a good tank player
barren anvil
I feel like pro warrior has just big skill requirement and people play it bad making it look bad
jagged pier
this tbh
open monolith
You are correct in your assessment
a bad brewmaster won't stand out nearly as much as a bad warrior
lower lows, and all that
barren anvil
im atm playing prot pala 184.5 ilvl and things im doing at dungeons are insane. Not taking damage and im making 3 to 3.5 overall dps per dung
making dps'es look stupid. But I think they might nerf pala
barren anvil
and i always wanted to run prot warrior but im thinking is it really worth a time
open monolith
Pally is overtuned by a significant amount, damage wise.
still pagoda
you will see how every single tank spec will require certain degree of reaching the skill ceiling
barren anvil
are here on discord any useful macros for prot warrior? It has the biggest amount of buttons to press and its kinda overwhelming
open monolith
there's like.... 1 macro for charge / intervene i think?
barren anvil
sth like ~22 buttons used per dung almost exclusivly
open monolith
you can use @cursor macros for spear / ravager
jagged pier
I mean i dont take damage in m0s at 175 and I do less damage but thats because warrior is undertuned compared to pala
open monolith
Hey man, you just gotta hit that Avatar / Demo shout / spear all the time
get them big dick deeps
undone sun
see here
still pagoda
more shift/ctrl binds to the god of shift/ctrl binds
open monolith
BINDS FOR THE BIND GOD
still pagoda
BINDS FOR THE BIND GOD [2]
barren anvil
Ye... it sucks that shield slam isnt off gcd to work like shield of rightoues
that would be nice buff to pro war
open monolith
I play prot warrior and enhancement shaman because i hate my fingers and wrist
well sotr is off gcd because it is a mitigation tool
all mitigation tools are off gcd
shield slam is not a mitigation tool
undone sun
sotr and ss are completely different
still pagoda
Ye... it sucks that shield slam isnt off gcd to work like shield of rightoues
it should not be off GCD
it is not SotR
shield block is off gcd and fills this role
perfectly
barren anvil
What i wanted to say. Prot warrior feels kinda clunky compared to pala where u just snap 2 spells together all the time while prot warrior is one by one most of the time. Or maybe im just doing sth wrong
open monolith
can we start using "oGCD" like the ffxiv community please? it makes sense. easier to type. TY