toxic
#protection
sweet summit
outer wedge
is there a reason why vers is not very good for us? i know haste is god but figured vers would be decent
civic rover
it's not a bad stat but it's our "worst" stat
modern brook
I dont think we hate verse
worthy ingot
imo if verse>mastery for a class, they failed in designing the mastery
modern brook
as much as the "I'm doing 10s and only have verse amp 18 what should i do" crowd
mellow patio
We shaming vers nerds again
sweet summit
But we are vers>mast :(
civic rover
"guys ive never touched a 20 in my life should i go full vers uwu"
novel temple
^^
jolly cradle
How do you chose trinkets? Str > haste or both fine let the proc decide?
mellow patio
I choose trinkets by which trinket gives me the best uptime on the most stats with the fewest buttons to press
:^)
novel temple
Imma go haste vers again though, because it’s gonna help me through my pain and suffering of a super long ass shield block CD
novel temple
Shit, you right 
worthy ingot
my group is obsessive about tank damage so probably gonna go crit>verse to satiate them
civic rover
crits better than vers anyway
novel temple
Nah, haste/crit if anything
worthy ingot
I'm surprised mastery doesn't gain ground over crit/verse since the ap scales spear more
novel temple
But let’s be real, we all gonna reroll so people will actually bring us to m5-m10 🥴
mellow patio
Wat
worthy ingot
The stories of prot's demise were greatly exaggerated
civic rover
just be a multi tank specialist
mellow patio
I'm surprised mastery doesn't gain ground over crit/verse since the ap scales sp...
Mastery doesn’t gain ground cause you need so much of it for it to be relevant
signal plover
Just play prot in a guild and slam
novel temple
I’ve played my prot warrior since BC, this might be the expac where I actually level and play the other tanks
worthy ingot
first raid is loaded to the teeth with Haste/mastery gear
novel temple
I still leveled and gear my warrior though already
signal plover
I was out of non-dairy shit to do on my warr on Tuesday lol. Literally easiest alt xpac ever
mellow patio
Like
signal plover
Dairy lol
mellow patio
You need more mastery than you can get from a gear set for it to be good
steep wraith
lactose intolerant world quests
mellow patio
Cough bastion of might cough
signal plover
Fuckin milk man callings ya kno
novel temple
The only dairy I want is some ice cream
signal plover
My VDH is capped and cute af now too
civic rover
Trader Joes Candy Cane Jo-Jos ice cream slaps
mellow patio
As I always say tho, you don’t main a class as a tank you main a role
If your fav class is playable
You play it
If you’re bored, you troll your group and play something bad
young glen
I'm starting with warrior but also got DH and Pala to 60 just in case
novel temple
I don’t have a Trader Joe’s membership. I’m on a military base with only the commissary and the NEX
signal plover
I'm planning to also cap a hunter just in time for MM to get nerfed into irrelevance
mellow patio
Trader Joe’s don’t need no membership
civic rover
i work at trader joes so i get 20% off
mellow patio
Oh got what is the number now
civic rover
get spanked
novel temple
Wait shit, it doesn’t?
sweet summit
if there is a cap to haste?
novel temple
Beef
civic rover
no
sweet summit
is that what youre asking?
sweet summit
poggers
young glen
Not cap, but aren't dimishing returns back in shadowlands?
open monolith
O M E G A P O G G E R S
sweet summit
grats mate
novel temple
I’ll clap dem cheeks for a bit of your discount
mellow patio
Eyir socks
gilded tendonBOT
🧦
mellow patio
Thanks
young glen
ah okay
civic rover
nah sorry friend
civic rover
just got promoted like a month and a half ago not tryna lose it instantly LOL
sweet summit
not stat rating
novel temple
I’ll clap your boss too if I have to
sweet summit
woah there
signal plover
Beef over here flexing dat assistant to the manager trader joe's role
civic rover
yessir
signal plover
Yuge
signal plover
O lawd
novel temple
Oh snap
signal plover
Of course it is
novel temple
Shipmate
civic rover
ye
novel temple
You definitely should toss me the discount
signal plover
Are you required to...mate
novel temple
I’m basically a pirate
mellow patio
Real talk tho the Trader Joe’s frozen chocolate strawberries are MY SHIT
civic rover
man you could probably just walk in there and say "hey i work at a different store"
oh those are good as fuck
i like the wraps
mellow patio
never really had something from Joe’s and been like “that sucked”
civic rover
if something sucks it gets discontinued asap
sweet summit
whos joe
civic rover
joe mama
mellow patio
He’s a trader
sweet summit
oh...
agile stag
Does the Memory of thunderlord drop rate increase if Hc or mytic?
sweet summit
ye
mellow patio
Yes?
sweet summit
@open monolith how many runs, sir
sweet summit
hmmm ok
open monolith
but i started leaving after 3rd boss
agile stag
seems im not the onyl one gettin fucked by that
open monolith
if I'm being honest
sweet summit
rude, sock
open monolith
it was probably only like 7 -10
novel temple
Nope
mellow patio
I will not put myself through that many normal dungeons
sweet summit
ill ban u sock
open monolith
no pls
jagged pier
you can look aat your stats for the number
sweet summit
its illegal to lie
coral kestrel
tanking mythics this week - granted undergeared at the start (155ish) I noticed real trouble generating enough rage to keep sb and ip up, while also having enough threat. basically almost never could hit revenge unless it was a proc. does that seem to be the current state of prot warrior right now?
sweet summit
$ban @open monolith liar
jagged pier
thats not undergeared dude
civic rover
hawgz
jagged pier
I did them in 145 and was fine
open monolith
@coral kestrel Getting aggro is more like old WoW than ever
civic rover
next time you're at TJs get the buffalo chicken wrap
open monolith
people will adjust
civic rover
shit is fire
open monolith
you either need misdirect or people need to focus your target
if people go big dick omega AOE burst when yours isn't up
yeah, you're not holding aggro
and that isn't your fault
jagged pier
there shouldnt be htreat issues at all
open monolith
i mean, you shouldn't be constantly struggling, no
but every so often when someone opens up with like, ashen whatever
and i don't have spear up
mellow patio
If dps turn to apes and just start smashing while I’m pulling that falls under the you pull it you tank it rule
open monolith
i might lose one
coral kestrel
it wasnt huge, but basically without many revenges it was a bit rough.
but also im sure the warlock and pala were going him constantly
signal plover
Make sure you get to the pack first as well
open monolith
yeah if you just try to hold aoe aggro with Tclap alone
you aren't going to hold it
signal plover
You'll lose a couple mobs if you go into a pack naked of CDs
open monolith
you have to spend some rage on revenge to hold
especially with big dick aoe classes
agile stag
yeah
open monolith
or just pray that your best friend is a marksman hunter
coral kestrel
haha i wish i had a hunter
mellow patio
Yeah honestly just bring mm hunter and game is broke
signal plover
Our on pull rage is pretty ridic tho
civic rover
i run with rogue, frost mage, unholy DK
open monolith
hunter is OMEGA good for dungeons
coral kestrel
i would rely on demo shout to generate rage quite a bit
civic rover
what is aggro
open monolith
freeze trap, soothe, misdirect
signal plover
Rogue tricks big
civic rover
yeah the second tricks wears off
median surge
Boys I am wondering if prot warrior will be any close to viable first patch?
median surge
M+ high keys?
civic rover
can we ban these questions
sweet summit
Yes warrior is good
open monolith
warrior is amazing
sweet summit
Tank choise will not hinder you
median surge
Literally Naowh said it will be kinda weak since no azerite traits and talent changes
signal plover
Ppl come here for huge insights
signal plover
That's not rly what naowh said
coral kestrel
so are you guys experiencing the same though? compared to bfa and legion, less rage and fewer revenge casts?
civic rover
naowh also said all of the tanks are very good and that your choice wont hinder your ability to tank
coral kestrel
just making sure im not screwing anything up. ill always be a warrior
final mist
It’s the beginning of a new expansion, of course we’re going to have less rage and revenge casts
signal plover
And that's only until SB uptime goes back up
median surge
I will be @open monolith Kapp
open monolith
i look foward to seeing your +7 theater key that didn't time :p
srsly though fuck theater
mellow patio
25+ key gamers do not question viability of classes
signal plover
Are you not an actore
mellow patio
I am an actors
signal plover
Where is your sense of the arts
open monolith
yeah honestly the only people who watch tier lists and then don't take classes as a result are the little dick people who struggly to pug +10 keys
im being more aggressive than I should hbe
ree.
mellow patio
I actually don’t hate theatre of pain
signal plover
Same
signal plover
Pass
mellow patio
High tyr lol
modern brook
remember atal?
open monolith
last boss feels overtuned
mellow patio
I call those weeks off
signal plover
Mists casters on fortified poo baby
modern brook
wheneveryone was like "haha why would you ever pull the center pack"
those were good times
sweet summit
Midde pack was good shit
mellow patio
I did too and jumped to snap it and missed
civic rover
literally no reason to overcomplicate the run
sweet summit
Yep
mellow patio
That is a classic hawgz move
sweet summit
They called me a snap god
modern brook
I'm gunna try and compete with erga this season
mellow patio
I’m beginning to feel like a snap god snap god
civic rover
the classic leif move is when i pull too much, we die, and then the healer and dps are arguing about how either there wasnt enough dps or not enough healing
modern brook
steal his yellow
open monolith
so far i haven't gotten any pug complaints on warriors
'
only comment I got was "wow warrior is better than I Thought"
sweet summit
Oh no
sweet summit
I dont want to be brown
signal plover
Poo a lil m&m's reference
modern brook
What did you do in season 4 erga? 5k?
open monolith
i didn't really say that
signal plover
Man did I say poo a lot lately
sweet summit
5.1k smh my head
signal plover
I'm just tryina ooo herd
civic rover
i am the real rosjen
sweet summit
coral kestrel
my disc healer friend said "wow, i cant keep you up" lol
civic rover
i almost hit 5k post season
mellow patio
I do not think I did a single key after we killed N’Zoth
mellow patio
I just geared alts once a week and left game
civic rover
i mean i also almost got 5k on VDH
mellow patio
Vdh was immortal
sweet summit
PreAsEaSoN dOEsnT CoUnT
modern brook
i remember boosting a key with a vdh that was at uhhhh i think 275 corruption of TD
it was like td 22 or something
civic rover
overall dps?
sweet summit
:well:
ebon swan
how do you guys handle those trash packs in spires of ascension with the mobs that jump away from the pack?
uneven mason
spear
ebon swan
pulling the rest to that one mob isnt always effective with how many casters there are in the packs
uneven mason
ALso, tell your party to not be 50000 feet away, there is a lot of mobs that leap to target
ebon swan
hmm is there a specific time they jump away or just spear on pull?
even if i spear they still jump away at 30-40% and then it still feels like a waste of time to switch to them
uneven mason
pulling to spots that provide LOS if the mob disengages is also good
ebon swan
hmm i guess with a coordinated group is better, iv'e just bee ndoing a lot of soa hc for the legendary and its just a mess lol
uneven mason
yeah
as the tank you're going to be the guy controlling the pulls
that being said
if you have some flipperhanded DH or Enhance shaman who is charging ahead of you
let them die
teach em in the early stages
modern brook
overall dps?
82.5
uneven mason
makes all our lives easlier down the road when we endup pugging "Illidude-Illidan" down the road
civic rover
hps kinda low
strong forum
well if hes playing 120 corruption
he can hardly get healed
but only doing 82k dps
kinda 
modern brook
well if hes playing 120 corruption
i might be exagerating the corruption tbh
I just remember it being a lot
We +2'd that with a leaver and a carry still
though tbh the carry def held his own
proven glen
Anyone else dual specing tank/dps? What items do you target first
modern brook
tank
mellow patio
What are dual spec
modern brook
you can actually get into queues and once you get a 1h and shield you probably wanna fill out with DPS trinkets anyways
plus as of right now
You dont have to wait for baby's first tank to pull things in the heroic and you can actually finish it before 30 minutes passes
uneven mason
gotten 4 loots from M0 - 1h shield
proven glen
True
uneven mason
are 2 of them
modern brook
gotten 4 loots from M0 - 1h shield
my first quest reward gave me a shield upgrade
96 :^)
uneven mason
👍
modern brook
while leveling i had one guy leave my normla dungeon cause he thought i was trolling
thats how much im trying to pull
modern brook
My warrior will be a tank almost exclusively
I'll probably mess with arms when i get bored
strong forum
same
marsh palm
Just how bad are protection warriors in Shadowlands?
marsh palm
Heard from guildies they are the worst tank for M+ right now.
proven glen
No fury? Legos for arms seem so bland
uneven mason
Prot is the worst tank ever Trasher
its 0.00001% in performance behind bears
who is 0.00000000000001% behind VDH/PAL
proven glen
Lols
uneven mason
tier lists 🤮
uneven mason
Everytime I see something roll through like "prot is blahblahblahblah" I watch the streamer press shieldblock while the mobs IS CASTING A SPELL
woven radish
Can has buffz?
uneven mason
and go "maybe you just bad??"
untold hawk
I have more survivability than my paladin xD
uneven mason
Heard from guildies they are the worst tank for M+ right now.
The gap between tanks is so small it comes down to 99% player skill, except for BrM - no skill required the spec autopilots you
They literally had 2 buttons to press, and Blizzard decided that was too many brain cells, so they removed one of them.
marsh palm
Thanks a lot guys. I'm currently 180 ilvl fury, have Memory of a Deathmaker. I'm not sure i wanna craft it next week since all i want to do in Shadowlands is play m+. Do you think my chances of finding groups for high keys are better as fury/arms/prot or it doesn't matter?
iron parcel
does it matter whether i craft thunderlord on hands or boots
uneven mason
what other legos are you planning on making down the road?
slot overlap for legos is generally good
fallow vault
I assume you can't have multiple legos right?
uneven mason
not equipped
urban verge
Kyrian or Night Fae for prot?
fallow vault
any idea how expensive it will be to craft them? I got the thunderlords legendary item just now
uneven mason
so if you're going to multispec or make more than 1, having them be the same slot is of benefit, so you don't need to collect multiple sets.
novel temple
@sweet summit can you pin the talent sims from yesterday or DM them to me?
iron parcel
on draenor it's not that expensive
i can probably get the base thing for under 40 ish k i think
fallow vault
ilvl 210?
vocal bison
you can buy high ilvl gear, but the soul ash required for them is going to be gated through several weeks
fallow vault
ah right, gotcha
vocal bison
the 190 ilvl you can have enough soul ash to actually make starting tomorrow
fallow vault
I honestly have no clue how the system works
vocal bison
it's a bit of a pain to figure everything out, i feel you
maiden ravine
Ironskin brew was removed because it was boring, not because it was hard
fallow vault
should I push for more than 640 ash this week?
vocal bison
810 is the cap through today
maiden ravine
You should have 810 ash this week
vocal bison
*er Monday
fallow vault
worth capping it?
maiden ravine
Yes
vocal bison
yea
leaden steeple
I switched from kyrian to necrolords, and honestly the difference isnt as drastic as I expected
woven radish
Enjoy the mog... sick
leaden steeple
yeah the mog&mount pushed me over
modern brook
My new mog is going to be Kyrian helm and shoulders + hidden.
just waiting for the drops.
uneven mason
Ironskin brew was removed because it was boring, not because it was hard
Literally the reverse of what the intent of "The Fetid Log" was attempting to achieve.
BrMs complained that their class required no input and what they did for survivability in the long run really didn't matter.
So Blizzard made the class even more passive, no one would ever argue that BrM was in any way hard to play...if my sarcasm did not manage to come through thick enough. Append these s's /s /s
maiden ravine
it mattered in terms of how much healers liked them haha
grand bridge
To be fair, brew does have a lot more stuff going on in dungeons. I've always found it shocking how people point to how easy brew is when something like guardian druid exists
uneven mason
right, but even then, you could be a flipperhanded undergeared blind monkey and not die as BrM, any other tank avoiding pressing their AM properly would just be red mist.
Brew is pointed to as easy because 0 effort - maximum return
Bear at least is like "some" effort
sick sentinel
Any good BiS trinket lists for M+ tanking?
uneven mason
Whatever does the most DPS
sick sentinel
So just double aoe dps trinkets like decanter and scale?
sturdy portal
does someody have a viable build for pvp with proc?
neat lagoon
why are my executes hitting harder in prot than as fury? that's just fucking stupid
sturdy portal
arena as well rated bg
uneven mason
@neat lagoon because they're 2 diff spells
maiden ravine
as someone who's a bear main this expansion I feel a little attacked. 😛
grand drum
Fury generates rage. Arms/prot spends rage. So naturally the fury execute is weaker
unreal forum
Think of Fury Execute damage as not just the damage from it but the rage it puts towards Rampage.
maiden ravine
still hits hard
uneven mason
are you also adding in your "Execute_Offhand" damage?
as its tracked as a separate spell
chilly brook
I switched from kyrian to necrolords, and honestly the difference isnt as drasti...
It's a pretty big difference
No rage generation
And a significant damage hit
uneven mason
and no benefit
chilly brook
On top of survival hit
strong forum
56.5 after 3.5hrs of dungies
uneven mason
if you're not seeing a difference there, you were not using kyrian effectively 😛
chilly brook
^
chilly brook
56.5 after 3.5hrs of dungies
It's honestly not bad if you have people to spam with
strong forum
na i pugged
chilly brook
Oof
chilly brook
I pugged into a few really bad Necrotic Wakes on my warrior when dungeon spamming
Boomie and ret both doing 200 dps or less
Literally imagine not being able to get past the first boss on normal
strong forum
just solo it
and abuse the FUCK out of the kyrian stuff in necrotic wake
shit is fucking OP
hammer,spear,orb, golems
spear and orb are absolutely disgustingly OP
can oneshot entire packs
chilly brook
I couldn't kill the stupid maggots before they blew up because dumbasses let them chomp
eternal idol
On the prot warrior enchants page on IV, it lists Lightless Force as our best weapon enchant, why is it better than Celestial Guidance? Are there any references to testing that proves this?
chilly brook
Other two dps were 400 combined
And healer didnt press damage buttons
Because leveling dungeon
strong forum
On the prot warrior enchants page on IV, it lists Lightless Force as our best w...
cuz lightless simply outperforms
chilly brook
On the prot warrior enchants page on IV, it lists Lightless Force as our best w...
No it's just wild speculation
eternal idol
More raw damage?
strong forum
ye
lightless force was Reaaally strong on beta
dont really know how well stuff performs on live
fallow mortar
for enchants, should we be looking to have str enchantments or haste when applicable?
mellow patio
H a s t e
maiden ravine
I don't think there's any str enchants that overlap with haste
I am a bit salty that our str enchant is on gloves which competes with gathering
oh, someone decided 10k for darkmoon cards were too cheap and tried resetting them
I doubt they stay at 14k
serene hound
What is the current thinking on Condemn with Prot?
steel mauve
good single target dps, but falls short of spear and night faes in aoe, its not good in m+ and decent in raid
golden violet
Is sylvan whiteshield the best BOE 190 shield available? 🙂
mellow patio
Is it the only 190 boe shield
vocal bison
there's a haste/mast one and a verse/crit one
golden violet
right
eternal idol
In terms of legendaries, what is everyone planning on going for raiding? I know it says to get The Wall for raiding, Thunderlord for M+, are you gonna try to hold out for The Wall to drop on Week 1 or craft Thunderlord?
digital nova
eternal idol
How many runs did it take you for Thunderlord to drop in Spires?
sweet orchid
So, can it be farmed on normal? I've run it on mythic and heroic but nothing yet.
shut summit
Got on first run 😬
astral crystal
ho
keen hearth
I'm on 31 normal 4 heroic 1 mythic and no drop lol
It"s honestly entirely possible i got it on day 1 or 2 and just taught it to the runecarver at this point and I just don't remember
runic linden
what talents do yall run for torghast as prot
vocal bison
haha, yea it's possible, wowhead though is showing the drop chance at like 3%, not sure how accurate that is
1 run and done - jealous
shut summit
@keen hearth if you open your dungeon journal page or w.e it's called, at top is a tab with powers
old dagger
is there a specific reward I should choose regarding commendation for prot war?
(ascended, undying army, wild hunt or court of harvesters)
vocal bison
As Kyrian Prot I've been going for ascended, feel like it's easier since I'm doing all those quests anyways, shooting for that ilvl 200 helm
vocal bison
that's the highest level but it's behind exalted, so may take a bit
old dagger
got it, thanks
inner river
Is the darkmoon deck anygood for mitigation for prot right now?
keen hearth
The general consensus here is that it's dog shit but I honestly don't think it's that bad if you have nothing else
inner river
if you can get it cheap in the ah is it worth the cost?
keen hearth
It depends on how much gold you have imo, if gold doesn't really matter to you, why not?
But if you get a better trinket you should use it
vocal bison
i used it initially just to help with ilvl to get to heroic queueing, if you're already at that min ilvl, i wouldn't bother
i basically spent 25k at the time to jump about half a day's worth of ilvl farming, because after like 1 or 2 heroics, you are pretty much geared for mythics, although even then if you have a good group you really don't even need to do heroics
copper lion
any benefit in choosing venhyr over kyrian?
venthyr
trying to figure out what I need to pick for all 3 specs
novel hornet
keen hearth
we'll only be able to craft a rank 1 leg this reset coming up right? that's what my math says but I could be stupid
so no point in buying a rank 4 piece?
restive flax
I mean, you could... you simply cant use it for a while
finite coral
Will thunderlord ever drop for me? Who knows
keen hearth
yeah, I just meant in terms of what to craft for next week
restive flax
Will thunderlord ever drop for me? Who knows
Hey, same :/
you wont be able to craft anything else than rank 1 next week
wispy tundra
Does The Wall drop from Torghast or a dungeon?
finite coral
From Nathria
restive flax
From the third boss in Narnia
wispy tundra
lol narnia
wispy tundra
ty guys, I'll be farming for Thunderlord this week!
Been really enjoying everything so far
keen hearth
you're on 50 runs?! I thought my now 37 was bad
keen hearth
tbh after running it so much i actually sort of like it
restive flax
stockholm syndrom monkaS
chilly brook
Idk why you'd worry about it so much rn tbh
grand drum
Its probably gonna be 100% when m+ comes out. At least i hope
civic rover
very well could tbh
chilly brook
Like tgv is nice but you're not gaining much value until at least m+ open
grand drum
i hope leggo drops are bugged right now and this isn't the actual intended drop rate
restive flax
I guess I spent all my lootluck on the undead rylak dude egg or whatever
civic rover
i spent my loot luck getting six legendaries on my bear in legion
restive flax
😄
honest plinth
gimme thunderlord pls. thanks
still pagoda
Does The Wall drop from Torghast or a dungeon?
from the hungering devourer
it is better to wait until mythic week to craft a legendary
get the highest ilvl piece, look at the patch notes and proceed with the plan
50/50 they may tune tanks
Blizzard, please, shove these 2 seconds off of SB cooldown
tender burrow
I am trying to level my prot warrior after playing pally.... its hard to get into it..... need more haste
still pagoda
I guess I spent all my lootluck on the undead rylak dude egg or whatever
i've spent my lootluck on 985 relic back in ABT 2 years ago
no luck since then
wispy tundra
yup... same... until you have to walk into Spires 50 times to get no lego 😄
@tender burrow Haste / verse is a warriors best friend, followed by mastery and crit of course
also getting a good rhythm with your cool downs helps a lot
tender burrow
Yea but just not enjoying leveling
Pally was much more fun
Spear is cool
I like that
wispy tundra
It's fun to use when you duel your friends, they never see it coming 😆
still pagoda
<@!209348423109967873> Haste / verse is a warriors best friend, followed by mast...
ivl >>> haste >> vers = crit > mastery
at this point, you can even place => between crit/vers and mastery
wispy tundra
Very fair @still pagoda
still pagoda
vers lost a lot of value due to corruption being gone now
just as it was almost useless in keys below the range where vers stacking was needed
i would personally say that, back in 8.3, it was ilvl > haste > crit > vers > mastery for everything below 22-24
with value of versatility gradually raising after this range
BUT, this was a part of high ilvl optimisation
until then, it was just like right now
equip every highest ilvl piece and then go for haste
civic rover
other thing ppl didnt realize
were the ppl stacking vers had vers on every single piece
bc if you dont have vers on every piece stacking vers was kinda useless
still pagoda
exactly
you either gradually add it in increments of 10% baseline vers or don't even bother
civic rover
because you arguably did similar damage with full vers if you actually had like 60-70% vers
along with like, if only half the pieces have vers, you're losing half value on the vers amps
which was why for most people TD was just better
still pagoda
because you arguably did similar damage with full vers if you actually had like ...
my semi-vers set had 60% on ~80% uptime and TD3 lul
maximum damooooooooooge
used it for few 22's
and 23 attempts
still pagoda
blame healer
i didn't...
yet he screwed me over anyway
just he screwed over spriest that i've come to meet during these pushes
we could have pushed into much higher keys with a "meme" comp
but didn't work out
vocal bison
My mythic group last patch was Holy Priest, Windwalker Monk, Destro Warlock, and Enhancement Shaman
come at me bro!
we were a ragtag group but it was fun
civic rover
in S4 we were prot warr, mistweaver, unholy DK, boomkin, BM hunter.
it was actually good af
vocal bison
i feel like boomkin was underrated in higher keys
vocal bison
yea, i really liked the dropped aoe silence, cool little piece of utility
civic rover
treants were really good for helping me kite
still pagoda
My mythic group last patch was Holy Priest, Windwalker Monk, Destro Warlock, and...
MW, arms warri, outlul and Spriest
still pagoda
i feel like boomkin was underrated in higher keys
just like all DoT specs. The higher you go, the more and more value they get
lavish oracle
Ngl, spearing a bunch of mobs, leaping away and watching them all snap back in place feels very good
Sometimes I do it just because it's fun to watch
still pagoda
this will be your main gameplay loop in higher keys this season
feelslegionman
this goes for all tanks
kiting is somewhat mandatory in high keys now
lavish oracle
Is that a product of dungeon design or just because all the tanks are relatively squishy atm?
still pagoda
not exactly squishy
maiden ravine
Almost makes me wish I had gone convoke on my druid for the typhoon, leap, Boomie convokes
still pagoda
but all have holes in mitigation
mostly timing related
pala has 100% effective uptime no matter what
but is heavily healer-reliant
lavish oracle
Oh, sure, yeah, mostly I've been using it to recover a charge of shield block where I can
maiden ravine
The higher you push the more you try to pull and abuse the uncapped dps specs to make the timer.
maiden ravine
You know they'll just cap the dot classes
still pagoda
just remove the worst part of this expansion
maiden ravine
Or put a hard cap on threat abilities
still pagoda
You know they'll just cap the dot classes
this is technically impossible
still pagoda
Or put a hard cap on threat abilities
your threat generation caps out at 10-12 targets if you have good DPS in the group
lavish oracle
Hard cap on threat abilities would be gross
maiden ravine
Oh I'm sure they could. "If this dot is on more than 5 targets oldest application is removed"
still pagoda
beyond this mobs won't give a damn about your clap
maiden ravine
But blizzard honestly doesn't care about m+ balance above maybe +17
still pagoda
last season had great balance
wdym
with the point of "disbalance" being keys above 28
which was the point of ridiculous scaling
maiden ravine
And in early seasons it'll be more like +20
lavish oracle
M+ balance feels like an afterthought
still pagoda
nah, M+ balance was always pretty good
maiden ravine
Their only goal is that any class and spec can time 15s. After that it's whatever
lavish oracle
Or at least like they thought about it and came to all the wrong conclusions
still pagoda
even on the highest levels
the problem is that target capping breaks this steady row
maiden ravine
Please, 88% prot warrior was balanced?
still pagoda
Please, 88% prot warrior was balanced?
we are not talking of metajerkies here
BUT of the highest keys completed by spec/class
every single spec could complete +28
which is already REALLY FUCKING HIGH
maiden ravine
No, last season of bfa 88% of all keys over like +22 were prot
still pagoda
not sorry for caps
still pagoda
No, last season of bfa 88% of all keys over like +22 were prot
who the fuck gives a damn about metamonkeys when the talk is about performance ceiling
and it was actually balanced for every single spec
lavish oracle
Sure, but you had players like Dorki and Andy still pushing comfortably on bear and monk
still pagoda
you could compete up to almost the highest keys with any spec
and even then +29 and above were ridiculous
to the point of oneshotting BDK's and paladins
compared to +28 which allowed BDK to breathe if played perfectly
maiden ravine
And you think target caps are what's hurting the tank balance?
still pagoda
it is hurting balance for everyone
not just tanks
"oh but this spec can't complete this level of key because it throws your pulls into the dumpster by being target capped"
this is nowhere balanced
this is dogshit
maiden ravine
And I'm saying if the players go deep into affliction lock, balance, and rogues, they will cap those specs before uncapping others
still pagoda
one way or another, it will make it balanced again
i would definitely prefer reversion of target caps
because this bullshit is 100% fun police move
maiden ravine
It's not what they want. They tried to make every pull full of mobs that had to be cc'd, that didn't work, so they're capping damage
They don't want big pulls
signal patrol
Hello, I'm new tank™️ what do I do
pull everything
pardon?
Pull everything or kick
maiden ravine
I already feel dungeon design is miles better this season because trash didn't have to be as punishing
still pagoda
this could have been avoided by one simple trick blizz can pull at any time
nerfing tanks OR raising mobs tank-focused damage in M+
signal patrol
You expect Blizz to balance tanks?
signal patrol
Just not do more dps than dps?
still pagoda
current tank balance(among each other is good)
signal patrol
To be walls of HP rather than "hey i'm do it all johnny"
still pagoda
i would prefer tanks to just do 50% of DPS damage, have normal(200% or so) threat multis and take increased damage from mob melee attacks in M+
lavish oracle
I really don't understand like...why they hate big pulls
maiden ravine
nerfing tanks OR raising mobs tank-focused damage in M+
Isn't that the latter and why everyone is kiting this expansion
still pagoda
Isn't that the latter and why everyone is kiting this expansion
nerfing further BUT removing target capping. You can cap pull sizes by removing possibility to tank too much shit for eternity
removing some extreme slows like grip of the dead too
formal river
Just played a bunch of arena as Venthyr prot. The damage was quite surprising
still pagoda
@maiden ravine + 99% of M+ pugs don't know how to manage big pulls anyway
so it is ruining fun for ordinary folk by introducing a bandaid fix(target capping) made for the highest levels/WF
maiden ravine
If they uncapped dps it'd be about whichever tank could hold aggro at a distance, or what we have now but worse
still pagoda
which should not be a fucking thing
odd ridge
I have a Q, so if you got 3 renown on one covenant and swap to a diff covenant can you also get 3 renown still?
maiden ravine
Gotta regrind it Tauros
still pagoda
as they are dumb anyway
still pagoda
I have a Q, so if you got 3 renown on one covenant and swap to a diff covenant c...
you will get catch up dailies
it will take you one week to swap anyway
maiden ravine
It does change it for us since trash isn't designed to be as punishing this expansion already
odd ridge
it didnt take me a week to swap it instantly let me swap
maiden ravine
There's no pull before volkaal
still pagoda
tank balance is good rn and DPS/tanks damage disparity we see rn is just a matter of bad DPS players early on into the expansion
still pagoda
There's no pull before volkaal
it just removes need for cloak and death pulls in this place
i'm talking of big pulls
and how they are almost always failed in pug runs
and were failed ever since M+ was brought to the game
with a group you can pull shit like crazy
with pugs...
you will die
maiden ravine
They don't want pugs to feel bad that they don't do those by being efficient. It's about making mdi more interesting
still pagoda
and get flamed
still pagoda
They don't want pugs to feel bad that they don't do those by being efficient. It...
whole side of MDI being interesting was 3 to infinity pack pulls ever since Seat of the Triumvirate runs back on last MDI of Legion and other quirky strategies
otherwise, it is normal dungeons which is boring to watch
also, compensating for people who can't get their asses up to read a guide or find a group(or friends) to do dungeons is not a good thing to do
tbh, one of the classic "not to do at home" big pulls was hallway before the first boss in Vault of the Wardens
that actually took skill and coordination to pull off
and lots of patience
signal patrol
I'm a little lost since I joined like, mid convo. Are you advocating for the "I run through the whole dungeon and we spam AoE every dungeon all the time" which makes every dungeon feel the same or legitimate coordinated pulls that accelerate the dungeon's hardest/most tedious spots
still pagoda
i'm arguing for the removal of target capping
as it doesn't change anything for the ordinary folk and pugs while gutting MDI, some aspects of fun factor AND control over your pulls as a tank(especially control of butt pulls and all the similar coincidences)
maiden ravine
I just can't be angry at target caps when I feel it's led to the best dungeon design since MoP
still pagoda
target caps are not the thing that led to it
actual fucking competence of design team is what did this
MoP dungeons were made in a similar manner
gleaming thicket
Prot felt fun when I did my m0 tour but I definitely feel a bit naked at times and like I take a lot of damage compared to my guardian Druid
still pagoda
yet you didn't have target caps
gleaming thicket
Damage seems pretty strong
still pagoda
Prot felt fun when I did my m0 tour but I definitely feel a bit naked at times a...
same goes for all the other tanks right now
except for paladin
gleaming thicket
So why do I read everywhere that they stink
still pagoda
but pala is a glass cannon at the same time
still pagoda
So why do I read everywhere that they stink
shity community perception
idgaf about it personally
gleaming thicket
Seemed fine
still pagoda
blizz struck the best tank balance with this launch
formal river
Tldr everything works as long as you arent competing in MDI
gleaming thicket
Yea I suppose but even if I’m not competing in mdi I still want to play the class that does it better.. be it damage dealt or taken
Because why not
unique shale
hi
gleaming thicket
Unless I’m in love with the class... in this case I still think it feels great to charge in with avatar, demo shout, and start spamming my thunder clap every other gcd
unique shale
should i make my legendary or w8 until 10th ?
gleaming thicket
During that window and even after I top dps
formal river
@gleaming thicket that's fair. I play what I enjoy the gameplay loop of.
Which luckily worked out this expansion so far.
maiden ravine
And you don't see any connection between the decision to cap targets in aoe to them feeling more free to design dungeons better. They feel closely related to me since the aoe cap decision was made super early
broken mulch
Is shield ilvl super important or will I barely notice a difference between say 171, 184 or even 190 shield?
maiden ravine
Is shield ilvl super important or will I barely notice a difference between say ...
Shield ilvl is our biggest defensive gain
unique shale
seems difficult for dps
maiden ravine
I didn't say best, but best since MoP absolutely
broken mulch
So if by next reset I don't get a mythic 0 shield I should prbly get a boe one so that I am strong in m+ week after
lavish oracle
I prefer both Legion and BFA dungeon design overall
maiden ravine
That depends on how comfortable you are spending gold. I likely wouldn't spend 50k for a shield I'll replace from a +4
lavish oracle
Barring a few stinkers
unique shale
bfa dungs were so lame
still pagoda
You think Shadowlands design is the best dungeon design?
i would put them on the level of MoP/Legion in my list. High and well made
broken mulch
@maiden ravine thanks! Yea I'm maining Fury in raids so I won't replace it soon, and I saw some shield for like 20k I think
lavish oracle
BfA dungeons were a lot less uhh, tubey?
still pagoda
tbh, it is so subjective that there is no reason to argue about dungeons
gleaming thicket
Any of you guys playing any alts that you find enjoyment in that feel completely different than war
still pagoda
everyone has their own favourites
lavish oracle
Shadowlands dungeons all feel like straight lines
still pagoda
Any of you guys playing any alts that you find enjoyment in that feel completely...
BDK
in my case at least
still pagoda
Shadowlands dungeons all feel like straight lines
streamlined for sure
but that is somewhat of a refreshing experience after mazes that were BfA dungeons
maiden ravine
I'll see if my interest lasts, but bfa dungeons were so bad to me I didn't play pve from mid 8.0 until 8.3
signal patrol
I already kinda know how BrM plays since I played it in Legion
still pagoda
you won't have your RP up for big hits at all times
signal patrol
but I was wondering about the changes to it for Shadowlands
still pagoda
I already kinda know how BrM plays since I played it in Legion
new BrM is different
lavish oracle
The varying routes were so much fun as an M+ player, Freehold is the best designed dungeon they've ever put out from that perspective
still pagoda
tbf, varying routes went to shit the moment you got to streamline the way you approach FH
signal patrol
am I a smooth brain that the main thing that got me interested in WoW was watching my cousin do Blackrock Foundry and being like "that looks really cool"
lavish oracle
There was never a "solved" Freehold, though
still pagoda
you got one route with only difference being the quest before the second boss
still pagoda
am I a smooth brain that the main thing that got me interested in WoW was watchi...
my father dragged me into WoW back in MoP
maiden ravine
You still get that a little in halls and theater, but mob counts are so tight you need most trash in dungeons
lavish oracle
I saw top groups still trying all kinds of whacky routes well into s4 in freehold
still pagoda
i would say that Sanguine Depths allow for quiet some interesting pulls
If only blizz would delete target caps
maiden ravine
I actually need to sit down with mdt now that I've seen the dungeons and plan some routes
lavish oracle
The most interesting thing to me about SL dungeons so far is how to most optimally use the covenant buffs
signal patrol
I want to get down and level BDK and BrM on my friend's faction but I'm hesitant as he hardly bothers playing with me.
maiden ravine
I think my only complaint would be feeling like I need a certain covenant for some dungeons. Like screw doing halls without a Venthyr
signal patrol
I have to drag him by the ear to do any dungeon. Even Normals/leveling dungeons
maiden ravine
Some people don't like dungeons
signal patrol
It's not so much that but he's suddenly incredibly timid for some reason
lavish oracle
Atal is another dungeon that we saw big change ups in routes throughout the xpac
The ordering of the first 3 bosses got switched up so often, it made me very happy
signal patrol
I've been considering leaving him behind and going to some other more populated realm but then the struggle there is either pay for a transfer or level back up all the way to get where I was and then attempt finding a group to play with that I actually would enjoy. Since I can't play a ton
lavish oracle
Luckily leveling is pretty quick now
signal patrol
Yeah.
lavish oracle
20 hours all told, maybe?
still pagoda
i dropped RU alli despite still having friends who play in this place
still pagoda
20 hours all told, maybe?
14-20
lavish oracle
With like a leisurely pace
still pagoda
If you don't speedrun
still pagoda
I've been considering leaving him behind and going to some other more populated ...
Depends, if you barely play with him, why care
I had a similar dilemma last April
Said fuck it and transferred to EU horde anyway
still pagoda
Been playing on EU-Gordunni for 4 years prior to this
Got fed up by utter garbage that raiding on RU servers is and decided to leave
And also switched factions as staying on alli would be a huge waste of time
signal patrol
I'm unsure where to go to for a chill guild that still cares about doing content, instead of running the risk of playing with more people like my friend who just don't seem to do anything but LFR at the end of an xpac lol
signal patrol
Last night I was considering saying "screw everything" and going to Emerald Dream. Until that would probably be populated with almost exclusively WPVP and Rated PVP, and not much else beyond that
still pagoda
US still has such division inside of community?
We barely have such on EU
all 9 major servers are populated with all types of players
signal patrol
Hm.
open monolith
Wat
crimson crane
Crit/Mastery vs. Haste/Vers on weapon - what y'all think
crimson crane
Same ilvl, so I'll go w the Haste one then.
granite cloud
Ive found my item compare mod is wrong of that's the case
still pagoda
Pawn i guess?
prime edge
Whats ur take on the darkmoon tanking trinket? I got one for 7g today...
still pagoda
Vendor trash
steel mauve
its really bad unless they buff it
still pagoda
I'm using it only because my luck for trinkets is abysmal
Will change next week for anything
prime edge
Well, i mean its better then nothing and the 200 ilvl aint that bad right
steel mauve
ilvl isnt bad but whats on it is
still pagoda
^
prime edge
Yea, i get it. Just put it up for sale for 7k then.
Some guy sold it on ah for 7g so jumped on it like bacon
steel mauve
im considering dropping the gold on it since its fairly cheap and hoping it gets buffed like they have in the past
was 22k on malganis yesterday
prime edge
Goes for around 7k on tarren mill
prime edge
I have the hc version of that blood trinket that creates a shield
granite cloud
Why would you jump onto bacon
steel mauve
i cant remember if it was bfa or legion the dmc tank one was trash, i bought it while it was at its low for like 8k, and they buffed it a couple weeks later and the price went up 60k and it was worth using
prime edge
Might continue to use that
granite cloud
Honestly it's meant to be fried
atomic monolith
What legendary should prot warr use?
granite cloud
Bacon apparently
prime edge
Thunderlord is it not
atomic monolith
To craft next week
prime edge
For now
steel mauve
thunderlord and the wall are top 2
tgv for dungeons and aoe fights the wall for raid
undone sun
atomic monolith
Tgv?
prime edge
The wall drops from castle so it still some time untill we can get that
granite cloud
So while doing first castle attempts till wall drops I should use thunder ? Or is there a 2nd best for raiding
atomic monolith
Any advice on where to craft? Feet or hands? Cause of bis gear
steel mauve
its all in the guides
atomic monolith
Guides?
steel mauve
its in the pins and the #268491842637660160 typically the first places you look and then ask questions on things that you dont understand
steel mauve
icyveins and wow head have guides up, wowhead it says which item is preferred for legos
wide fiber
is the new darkmoon deck any good?
wide fiber
ok, thxs
still pagoda
icyveins and wow head have guides up, wowhead it says which item is preferred fo...
Chest >= Legs >= Head > Ring = Amulet > Shoulders
= Boots >= Belt = Gloves > Wrist > Cloak
also from DK discord. Choice of legendary depends almost entirely on stat pool of said piece
crimson crane
set of boots w Haste prim, crit secondary and Haste prim, mastery seconday. only gloves are Haste prim vers seconday.
atomic monolith
I'll be craftin those boots
lunar perch
What's the best darkmoon deck to use for prot?
steel mauve
the gloves have versa on them whihc are slightly more valued than crit and mastery even though pretty sure those 3 are eaqual or close to it
quasi drift
how do i play prot
crimson crane
ah, I mostly m+ so I was thinking of the m+ stat prio, which values crit slightly higher
my b, iron, thanks
quasi drift
can you give me like the 10 words or less version
crimson crane
press devastate as fast as u can
steel mauve
like i said the 3 stats themselves are so close together i doubt any one would see a difference honestly
granite cloud
Thunderclap and revenge are what hold aggro everything else is tools for picking up stragglers or mitigating damage
granite cloud
Honestly if you level up from 1-cap you should pick it up if you do a lot of dungeons
still pagoda
you know how many people you see who do exactly this and fail to understand even basic mechanics of the spec?
quasi drift
fuck it, ill just get a hunter to misdirect on me
granite cloud
You have a point
That'll work until you get 2 impatient hunters
Or a hunter who doesn't want to do all the work
keen hearth
so when wowhead says boots are itemized worse than gloves, that means boots would give less stats right? so wouldnt it make more sense to craft gloves even tho it says to craft boots?
or am I just misunderstanding
steel mauve
you choose the stats for the legos
so if boot drops are the worse stats you choose yourt better stats on the boots
for the lego
maiden ravine
Assuming you get mythic legs any time soon
rustic anvil
empty locust
meager abyss
worth it to go prot for torgasht?
meager abyss
nice
astral crystal
Tank torghast is a joke for all tank specs
maiden ravine
It could be better if it was baseline strength without the conduit, so it'd give something other than hp defensively
lavish oracle
There a trinket breakdown somewhere that I'm missing?
sand pebble
lavish oracle
Yeah, that power is nutty
prisma crane
hmm, dps or tank DMF card...
sweet summit
Voracious if anything
prisma crane
thats what i was thinking
west kayak
So if I am reading the Icy Veins guide correctly its Haste>ilvl?
sweet summit
No its ilvl>>>>>>haste>>rest
west kayak
I got a couple pieces of Mythic gear, 184, that dont have any haste whereas my 171 has quite a bit.
sweet summit
Use the 184s
west kayak
I go from 18.84% Haste to 13.06%.
I know it was ilvl overall last expansion, its just that Haste help the Rage starvation. 🙂
sweet summit
And thats ok
west kayak
Got it. Thanks!
chilly brook
Chief
You gain so much more from ilvl than you do simply from haste
Just be intentional on your rage use
I can't say that I've been rage starved at all
west kayak
In the beginning it felt awful. But I just switched over to ilvl over Haste and ran De Other Side and it went just fine. Felt better in fact.
lavish oracle
Honestly, with Ravager build, I have literally never felt short on rage
west kayak
Just cant Revenge and Execute when you want to at the moment it seems like. Granted it works out just fine.
agile stag
178ilvl, but with 7% haste. Feels like playing with 400ms
kind prairie
thunderlord drop off any difficulty?
hearty portal
yes
kind prairie
hmm... having trouble. been spamming normal.
west kayak
I just got the trink off of that boss, still have not seen the Lego...
midnight burrow
i did about 10 normals and got it, for what its worth
west kayak
1 Mythic and around 6 Heroic and 5 Norm, nuttin yet but I will get it.
midnight burrow
saw plenty of other classes queuing along the way, saw some other drops. The % doesn't seem to be preposterously low
kind prairie
cool, I am on #8?
agile stag
im on 10
flat finch
27 runs and I just got Thunderlord.
kind prairie
fuck me
smoky wave
Dreading that. It'll either me or my wife that will need dozens of runs for the drops.
sweet summit
Just wait for m+ to open and spam low spires
Do daily hc and weekly mythic for now
Thats my advice
unique shale
yo should we hold on making legendary items until raid open or not ?
neat dirge
unique shale
i heard there is some changes going on
sweet orchid
Yeah, there are changes happening. My guild put out a psa that everyone needs to have their mats ready to craft their item but not to craft it til the raid had opened so they dont get a nerfed power
radiant sigil
Does Gear/Health Scaling ever make Never Surrender worth taking?