Opposite
#protection
final mist
exotic spoke
Awww thanks!
left hatch
^
lusty grotto
Did someone pong me
analog zinc
Its MUCH easier to see weaknesses in your defense
left hatch
tanking anyway is learning a fight in 3 pulls and then waiting 30 more for your group to get their shit together
final mist
Play like a tank and do your fuckin’ job, turn the DPS up when you can 100% handle everything
oblique garnet
Last tier on court i went full defensive my ehrps was 12k where as Sense went full dps his was 26k but yeah it makes no difference 🤷♀️
left hatch
so you have PLENTY of pulls to wiggle around and fight what you can lose to pad harder
lusty grotto
Lies late
oblique garnet
Classic man joins in the conversation
lusty grotto
You were the chosen one
final mist
Oh fuck it’s nimchip
warm plinth
I think you know who pinged you Nimchip
final mist
Suh dude
left hatch
and dying early is a good way to get grief from your group, esp in a new guild or bad guild
oblique garnet
Arent you supposed to be doing bwl? oh wait it took 20 minutes 
lusty grotto
You were supposed to join us not beat us
exotic spoke
I’d rather have more survivability, especially to help see phases and get acclimated / used to it, before going offensive
sick sentinel
by playing around and dying you are hurting your raid team more than you are helping
autumn pendant
APES not even first 
lusty grotto
They got fucked by horde give em a break
analog zinc
late were your healers accomadating for your reduced ehrps? Like with just 12k you can have it so everybody ignores you but maybe 1 beacon & a glimmer kept up on you. That kind of healer organization can actually lead to dps increases
oblique garnet
Tbf most of the fights in this tier healers arent focusing on healing you that much
sick sentinel
youre not wrong
oblique garnet
For example on drest im basically 90% of the time out of range of healers delivering buffs so i had to play AUG of all things on it
And it really fits perfectly for all the timers in the fight
warm plinth
@lusty grotto Did you see what Sal posted when he first came back?
lusty grotto
Wiat wait
analog zinc
yeah drest is a boss where i'd go into it full defense because there's just no reason to play agro, you cant even dmg the boss
left hatch
end of the day majority of players arn't as good as you city. and arn't playing with people as good as you are. so you can't hold them to the same expectations
brittle owl
AuG fits nicely with alot of timers
lusty grotto
Wait a minute
oblique garnet
I cant believe im saying this but azeroths undying gift is actually good
left hatch
they make mistakes, they have 4head healers
lusty grotto
Is that sal sal?
warm plinth
Yes, that's Sal Sal
final mist
@lusty grotto A SUH DUDE
lusty grotto
Hol up
left hatch
and some are bad enough they can't afford padding ever
analog zinc
I'm not even that good
final mist
👋
analog zinc
I just want to be good
warm plinth
And guess what he said, first thing when he came back
lusty grotto
Why are you brown 
warm plinth
It was about you
brittle owl
also on drest you absolutely can play offensively, since you as a tank, ironically have higher uptime o boss
exotic spoke
@analog zinc that’s a poor argument. You can’t easily track that - especially not just feely draft
Any GCD they don’t have to use on you is saved. Maybe they push back a heal here or there. Whatever. That’s an incredibly hard way to prove something
analog zinc
so I go into stuff with what I believe is the best philosophy
left hatch
right. but you underestimate how BAD people are
lusty grotto
Also hello 👋
left hatch
like you already have the expectation you won't fuck a mechanic
ionic fern
AuG has always been good tho - it's just that it's very situationally good.
oblique garnet
yeah but unlike ep
left hatch
50+% consistently scuff mechanics
oblique garnet
it has multiple uses this tier
lusty grotto
I'm not gonna fall for that shit again ghash
left hatch
and defensive build CAN save you from fuckups
lusty grotto
Goddamn it
left hatch
yo'ure also assuming theyd be able to utilize an offensive build
analog zinc
depends on the fuckup tbh
final mist
@ionic fern Listen all I’m gonna say is that everyone thought dagger haft was good at one point too
(Memeing btw)
left hatch
which... coming from someoen who has a consistently grey parsing pally co-tank who ive tried so hard to make him better
analog zinc
standing in a void zone for a couple of seconds or a puddle? Prob isn't gonna kill you no matter what you're doing
warm plinth
Wait, the fuck
left hatch
most tanks can't/wont
ionic fern
😂
oblique garnet
Anyways children behave im gonna go slay some tentacles
warm plinth
When did they remove :haft: D:
lusty grotto
No more haft?!?
warm plinth
It was still a thing like a month ago
final mist
Ah, I see late has taken up my mantle
lusty grotto
What is this madness
analog zinc
but standing in a 3rd ilgy beam without realizing, yeah you're dead no matter what
jaunty aspen
well i kinda have to tank by murphs law "everything that can be fucked up will be."
sick sentinel
we still have 
lusty grotto
Sal what you doing nowadays
warm plinth
Although tbf, modular platinum plating should really take the reins from sporepods
lusty grotto
Are in the superior boomer game like me
left hatch
right but say.... slow taunt swap on 2nd beam while healers are freaking over MCd ppl? VoP major could save you
final mist
I quit WoW for a year and I’m back playing arms now and crushing M+ rankings
oblique garnet
@analog zinc play with maut trinket its god tier on ilgy
lusty grotto
Oof
warm plinth
Unlike Nim, who abandons us for 15 year old content 😠
lusty grotto
Wait arms is good again?
analog zinc
yeah on mythic i'd prob run at least psychic shell
final mist
Arms is 
oblique garnet
it completely negates the 2nd gaze
lusty grotto
Ima get my cloak tomorrow guys just wait I'm convinced
analog zinc
just because I dont need to see the fight to realize there's a very good lineup with defensive choices
strong forum
Yes nim, Arms is really good right now
It was good in EP aswell, but now it's better cuz more haste :)
lusty grotto
analog zinc
apparently test of might just scales super hard this tier
lusty grotto
Time to get my cloak.. Right after bwl lel
strong forum
Well cuz ilvl of azerite and haste
strong forum
Ye my biggest Tom was 16.7k without Lust
lusty grotto
I'm aroused
final mist
WTB Expedient corruptions btw, 29% haste with none of them
warm plinth
I think Sal has talked more in the last 20 minutes than I've seen him talk collectively ever.
warm plinth
He's free now
lusty grotto
Freedom!!
warm plinth
Yes, Nome. He's the former blue boi.
ionic fern
😦
final mist
I’ve been free for a year, and then a friend convinced me to come back
final mist
“It’ll be casual heroic raiding,” he said
hallow phoenix
@strong forum biggest ToM I've gotten is 21k during lucid execute
strong forum
Based
final mist
We’re 5/12M now on two day schedule 
strong forum
Big boi pumps
hallow phoenix
Ilvl is king
lusty grotto
Lol jebaited
warm plinth
What have you done to yourself
warm plinth
What's corruption 🤔
strong forum
Just buy it 💸
warm plinth
@exotic spoke Have you heard of this thing corruption? I hear you have some 😏
final mist
I gave away all my gold when I left because I told myself I wasn’t coming back
strong forum
My dh has all of em :)
lusty grotto
MonkaHmm
strong forum
But my warri only gets t3 stars
final mist
I have gotten 10 corruptions and 5 of them have been the mastery proc ones
Which aren’t bad, but aren’t good either, just decent
strong forum
Good for m+
exotic spoke
I will cut you ghash
warm plinth
You ever heard the story of the little boy who cried wolf Riki?
warm plinth
Your threats are meaningless 😏
royal ferry
How good is 8% leech corruption ? On m+ mobs that’s like 4-5k HPS right?
exotic spoke
I have 430 TD bracers. A %crit to shield, an IS t3 475 ring (that I have to use either that or TD), and void ritual 475 bracers
That’s it. Fuck my corruption luck
left hatch
Leech isn't generally worth the corruption budget
analog zinc
leech is negligible unless you can achive a critical mass of it
left hatch
cool to have, not worth ilvl or corruption
lusty grotto
Triggering intensifies
exotic spoke
What do you know about leech Nim? They don’t have that in Classic - you traitor
lusty grotto
Yes we do
analog zinc
you're not gonna die during your CDs & outside of your CDs you're probably not gonna live a pull because of leech, your dps is also lower when you need it more, so its less effective in that regard too
lusty grotto
There is some leech
exotic spoke
No you don’t. It’s Fake News
strong forum
There's about 20 leech users in each raid
royal ferry
Yea true didn’t think of it that way. And it’s useless on bosses
exotic spoke
Zing
analog zinc
that being said
get like 40% leech
& become legend
you dont need a healer at that point
royal ferry
Lol that would be sick
analog zinc
just self sustain & run quad dps
sick sentinel
i have arrived
warm plinth
He's been summoned
lusty grotto
BTW hang on Riki I'll show you
exotic spoke
Traitor
lusty grotto
I'm coming back partially give me a break
My brother has been on my ass about getting cloak and doing keys
strong forum
No breaks to be had, this isn't method.
exotic spoke
Method was getting roasted in another discord by EU players
I smiled
Some of Method*
lusty grotto
In fight club disc, you know who's lord sco?
His name is nekrage and he's on my server (also kungen but he's inactive)
They meme that guy so much
exotic spoke
¯_(ツ)_/¯
warm plinth
Also pray for me; real feel is -9 outside right now
And there was slushy snow last night
exotic spoke
I don’t think I’m going to get any appreciable snow this year and that makes me sad
lusty grotto
Is there some carrying to be done in retail for a poor boomer warrior?
lusty grotto
-9 fuck that
warm plinth
I live in Kansas City. It rarely even gets below like, 25
lusty grotto
I think i would die
exotic spoke
-9 Fahrenheit
analog zinc
oh you're using the wrong ones
exotic spoke
Yeah that’s -23 almost city 🙂
analog zinc
yeah thats pretty cold
you should use real measurements next time tho
so people in real countries can understand
lusty grotto
Murica
exotic spoke
Coldest place I’ve ever been to was -60 F, -51 C, counting the windchill
Was like -45 without it
Fuck that noise. Never again
lusty grotto
Ohhhh right Riki I just remembered
exotic spoke
When they can’t fill the plane with potable water because it froze in the water bowser on the tarmac you know you’re making the right choice leaving that place
analog zinc
i think coldest ive ever been in was close to -40
lusty grotto
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=19287/darkmoon-card-heroism here is your leech @exotic spoke
Kapow
exotic spoke
That’s not leech
analog zinc
whats taht weapon called
lusty grotto
Yes it is
exotic spoke
You’re healing a static amount occasionally
analog zinc
that steals like 2hp per second for 30 seconds
warm plinth
😂
lusty grotto
Screw your logic nonsense
warm plinth
I used that card a lot for farming in TBC
warm plinth
That one and the badge thing from Cenarion Refuge that did a similar effect
warm plinth
The better part of the game that came after what you're playing now
lusty grotto
Pfft lol
exotic spoke
We’re in the better time line
lusty grotto
Next you'll say bolvar fordragon aka fuck your dragons for killing lvl 10s is the lich king
lusty grotto
Whatttt
exotic spoke
Tirion died too
warm plinth
And then some DKs tried to bring him back but the paladins yeeted them out
exotic spoke
So did Varian
lusty grotto
Oh yeah that guy who gets his son killed
warm plinth
Ysera is dead :/
exotic spoke
The king, the father of Anduin,
lusty grotto
Oh
exotic spoke
Who was exiled by Onyxia
exotic spoke
Uhhhhhhh
Meaning to talk to you about that.....
They aren’t...:.
Also, you murdered the father of a young girl and caused a lot of problems for the future Nim. Way to go
lusty grotto
wtf!
lusty grotto
did he pull a... looks around, palpaltine?
lusty grotto
well that i did
exotic spoke
He’s dead.
exotic spoke
(Honestly don’t remember)
lusty grotto
btw my rogue this time around my rogue is called stabchip
i think it was late that suggested it
modern brook
More like classchip
strong forum
🤣 👌 get it?
Cuz chip and ic share 50% of their letters
So they're similar
😂 😂 🔥 💯
hasty seal
Hey guys, I wanna start tanking with my warrior. Are the Engineering Azerite pieces good for Prot ? And whats the best Engineering trait if yes :D?
sweet summit
its good, easy access to Deafening Crash. Usually you pick Relational Normalization Gizmo on the 2nd row
exotic spoke
@left hatch were you the person we were talking about that 800k TD
left hatch
i thought it was a junkyard, and turns out it was a vengeance DH not a havoc
which checks out
exotic spoke
Yeah, and or, they had two TD pieces causing it to stack the damage
left hatch
yah not at all insane in context
hasty seal
And can someone tell me, are there already Season 4 Routes for the Mythic Dungeon tool somewhere ? I can't find Season 4 runs on r.io 😄 Would be awesome to get some routes to get started and change just a little bit instead of making my own bad ones 😄
exotic spoke
Not really. Things haven’t been optimized yet. Also, i can see a bunch of@routes coming up depending on how many obelisks people try to skip
slim halo
Should i Cleanse a searing flames for Ineffable truth?
jovial saffron
thanks for the tips and advice the yesterday, my blocked hits % went up, and it felt better overall!
lucid pendant
Does anyone have a good WA that yells at you when your block is expiring
Like the brew WA that says "idiot!" If you let ISB get to 1s
exotic spoke
I mean - that sounds like a terrible WA for us because we can’t maintain 100% up time on block
daring marlin
wtf riki just have expedient on every piece ok
somehow the math will work out to 100% uptime
:^)
exotic spoke
My bad - I’ll make sure I have 100% up time on OP and MS
daring marlin
rofl
exotic spoke
and the mechagon ring proc
warm plinth
Just get a recal 4Head
lucid pendant
Yea I know it'll fall off, just want to get uptime as high as I can
Audio cues are helpful idk
elder berry
is the mechargon ring set worth it for prot warrior?
exotic spoke
Feeding on which ones you have yes
I guess my point Leisure, is that shield block alone isn’t enough because it will be constantly going off.
You need to maximize shield block + last stand against blockable damage. There are times you don’t want to block (for defensive purposes)
lucid pendant
I'm aware, just trying to increase my average uptime over the course of a dungeon
(when relevant)
modern brook
Haha nom got my my joke
Thanks nom!
And can someone tell me, are there already Season 4 Routes for the Mythic Dungeon tool somewhere ? I can't find Season 4 runs on r.io 😄 Would be awesome to get some routes to get started and change just a little bit instead of making my own bad ones 😄
@hasty seal tbh the solution is to just stare at mdt and try and make 100% with as few shitty pulls as possible
though TBH i dont think many dungeons got changed super drastically to how they were done before
Deathskips and shrouds just got easier thanks to Obelisks
TD and Atal are fairly different, but most others feel pretty similar in my experience so far
glad ridge
any predictions on nerfs to TD if any?
modern brook
the corruption or the dungeon?
glad ridge
corruption
glad ridge
its not OP
strong forum
Just don't know by how much
glad ridge
just gud on tanks lol
strong forum
OK.. So a proc that can do multiple million dmg in m+ on a single proc isn't OP
Got it
modern brook
I'd describe that power as overwhelming tbh
glad ridge
yes that
strong forum
Sure kid
modern brook
personally I'd expect a similar nerf as EV got; its basically the same ability
glad ridge
it makes tanking pretty damn fun
modern brook
I'd argue against that
random procs of "i did a trillion damage because im at my keyboard" isnt fun
glad ridge
but it will kill the ability for dps or healers wont it?
the messages i get from dps makes it fun lol
modern brook
yeah ur getting messages because its literally broken dude
glad ridge
i know i love it lol
strong forum
Even on Dps its too strong
modern brook
.>
glad ridge
i mean they did know these numbers during ptr
strong forum
Just because it's working as intended doesn't meant its not OP
The mechagon trinket is also working as intended
But it's beyond useless :)
modern brook
To answer you directly: Yes expect a nerf, what it will be no one knows
strong forum
^
glad ridge
i hope its still decent
strong forum
It'll be more in line with other stuff
That's the entire goal
That everything is useful, not mandatory
modern brook
I dont understand how they thought corruption solved the issue that titanforging brought along tbh
like efficacy aside
its literally legion legionaries but even harder to get.
kind geyser
I don't think they're like legendaries, because legendaries were just talents with rng. This is like titanforging with a limit to how many forges you can wear
modern brook
THats a better description tbh
I just find myself getting corrupted shit and its like "bonus avoidance" and im like "great, thanks weekly chest"
lucid pendant
TD is so funny, I thought I had pulled mobs and then boom 160k hits x 8
rustic relic
is there a haste cap at all for prot warrior
rustic relic
ty
grizzled glen
Should I use a 475 ring vs a 465 with a socket in keys? Both Haste (Primary)/Mastery
modern brook
stamina matters a lot more now than it has in the past
though i imagine 465 + str gem is probably better
whats the 3rd ring?
grizzled glen
Thornwoven band, it’s also 475
Verse/haste
If it helps, I also have twilight dev which makes me consider taking the 475
warm plinth
Eh, that's marginal in the consideration tbh
modern brook
Literally what i was refering to when i said stamina matters
I'd probably take socket, tbh
especially if i didnt already have a str gem socketed
but i think the difference in performance between the two would be negligable
warm plinth
Yeah I agree
grizzled glen
Thanks fellas
lucid pendant
Battlemasters
cunning token
i can chose betwwen six pvp trinkets
dont know is there any good options
or everything is meh
lucid pendant
Pop that and last stand and pray for a TD proc
cunning token
i am looking at Safeguard trinket
creats a shield of 121k hp if i fall below 25% hp
i dotn have any defansive trinkets
lucid pendant
There's a Maut trinket that absorbs a bunch
cunning token
true
lucid pendant
You can also use the tank essence that does a similar effect
ruby nexus
Any advice on what trinkets to use? My options are Rezan (455), Block (465), Jes Howler (460), Ra-den trinkets haste (460) and vers (445)
warm sleet
Is it trinket week for the pvp conquest rewards?
sharp tapir
Does BOM give a max rage IP?
hallow phoenix
@ruby nexus raden and block
@sharp tapir yes, but if it's a vision proc it gives 1/3
Max rage IP being 40 (min is 40 too)
I think a lot of people like expedient and twilight Dev, @quartz mist
But just use what's available like the rest of us :(
ivory elbow
does last stand block crit dmg too
cunning token
Are you using twilight devastation
hallow phoenix
I use R1 TD
quartz mist
If i ever get a good corruption lmao , got leech and haste one so far
hallow phoenix
@ivory elbow what do you mean
Do you mean can last stand crit block or does it block the same % of damage if you would be crit in, say, pvp
ivory elbow
shield block raise your shield blocking all melee attacks aginst you for 6 sec these blocks can be critical blocks
does it work the same way for last stand
hallow phoenix
Last stand functions exactly the same as the block from SB
The only difference is you don't gain bonus shield slam damage
tired cove
@shut summit help me brother
prisma crane
ilvl
tired cove
get all the stams
prisma crane
raidbots for dps stat weights
prisma crane
more or less yes
warped stag
What % i should aim as hast/crit & co ?
prisma crane
more the better
there are no breakpoints
i wouldnt overcomplicate tbh
ilvl is almost always king (except rings and trinkets)
and just sim yourself for the rest
warm plinth
Krotos what have you been doing? Raiding or?
warped stag
strange answers.. but ok 😮
prisma crane
they arent that strange when you consider that tanks arent always like dps when it comes to gearing
i've been kinda just doin whatever lol @warm plinth some pug runs here and there and some M+, nothing really difficult, i just dont have the time atm to raid, though i do miss it
strong forum
IP is always "max" theres no different values on IP
prisma crane
plus going horde sucks, but hey, blizzard fucked over alliance, so i dont have much choice
warped stag
@strong forum IP ?
strong forum
ignore pain
prisma crane
ignore pain
warped stag
oh k
little hatch
I'm building a tank set. I rolled prot full time back I'm WOTLK but when I came back in legion, I basically switched to deeps and never looked back.
I want to tank again, mainly for M+ content. I understand that we want to keep up shield block, but how does ignore pain fall into the rotation? I was reading the guides and didnt get a lot of clarity.
Is IP kind of like an oh shit button? Like below 50% health and you IP then just continue with your normal rotation?
warm plinth
Yeah I wish I could play alliance 😦
prisma crane
its a ghost town and it sucks
strong forum
IP you always use
warm plinth
Yeah rage dump is honestly the safest way to think about it. It’ll get you using it properly.
strong forum
when your rage allows you to
lemme whip up my Copy Pasta for you
for the crash course
Johnny
little hatch
So anytime I'm at like 75+, I IP?
strong forum
You can chain 3x SB with appropriate amount of haste.
After that you use Last stand to fill the CD downtime of Shield Block which should allow you to get 2 charges of SB again.
So it's "SB->SB->SB->LS->SB->SB"
(For general defensive rotation assuming pure blockable dmg)
You use Avatar and Demo shout on CD.
priority is SS>TC>Revenge>devastate for dmg.
Never cap rage, pump excess rage into IP, not into revenge.(unless you know better)
Don't empty your Rage Bar before needing to use SB.
If you know you will take heavy dmg use SW beforehand.
If you can't keep up SB or LS, fill the gap with shockwave / kiting ( if needed) / shieldwall
Or ask for an external.
%uptime on Shield block is relatively useless to look at, what matters is effective uptime.
little hatch
I appreciate it!
prisma crane
i've never micromanaged it like that
strong forum
well you should 😉
strong forum
yes always 40
sick sentinel
I just remembered they nerfed tank/healer horrific visions. Is the nerf substantial enough to say F fury and just got giga AOE prot?
warm plinth
Easiest way to use IP improperly is to think too hard about when you should use it
strong forum
id say prot is much easier than dps
for solo visions
cuz elites only have 400-600k HP
and you can oneshot them with cyclo blast / cof
undone sun
One spec is easier than an entire role?
sick sentinel
Lol or twilight dev them to death
strong forum
well and that
little hatch
Nice that helps. Going to screenshot that! Thank you!
warped stag
So if my understand isnt bad, prio ilvl on item , dont care about stats really ( maybe focus on hast/crit/poly )
and sim ring/trinket for dps on raidbot
little hatch
I remembered when I first came back to legion I got yelled at by a healer for not using IP right and I was like, F this... I'm going arms
prisma crane
chances are your healer didnt know how IP works
people see it as a dmg reduction and then ignore SB
which is backwards in 99% of situations
little hatch
Haha. I'm pretty sure it was me that didnt understand it! It was an entirely different game after taking like 6 years off
prisma crane
doesnt matter, we had people asking the same question back then too
most common problem is over usage of IP
since it's expensive and spammable
little hatch
That was probably what I was doing and what I was trying to understand now.
prisma crane
yup, and of course logs help us help you further
warm plinth
In Legion IP was literally just spam the hell out of it to make sure you use all your rage 😂
At least, at the end
warm plinth
Yeah
prisma crane
eventually ilvl won out, but yea that was a fun spam fest
warm plinth
Pumping that SS damage
little hatch
Well I am going to start tanking some low level M+ this week and I'll definitely be back. Everyone talks about the pins, but I learn more from sitting around and watching the fury channel than I ever learned in a guide
warm plinth
Super fun time but honestly not mad it was brief because fuck
Give yourself finger cramps with that shit
prisma crane
worth
warm plinth
You won't see a check the pins emoji in here very often
Like, there's a guide obviously but we typically will just answer the question lol
little hatch
These forums are really great compared to some of the other class forums I have been in. Like the DH forums for example.
flint cliff
Got the sword from wrathion. Cleanse the corruption an use echo void bracers instead?
hallow phoenix
Why not both
flint cliff
That would be 60 (bracers ev) and 30 from sword. 55 in total with rank 10 cloak...
prisma crane
45 if you use an essence
but if you want yea, EV is easier to use and prob more dmg, i guess the question is if it's more than 2x the dmg
warm plinth
If you go by Bloodmallet's DPC rankings, EV T3 is approximately double SF on single target but goes to about 1.5x on AoE
strong forum
DID SOMEONE SAY CORRUPTION
warm plinth
And by AoE I mean HAC
strong forum
warm plinth
260 nbd
strong forum
EZ raid setup
warm plinth
What's the damage taken increase on that XD
grand drum
Take off cloak
sharp night
imagine having corruption
strong forum
185%
warm plinth
Phew
Almost triple damage
But yeah take off cloak if you want real memes
Easy 305 corruption. TfB could spawn 100 yards away and still insta-port to you lul
warm plinth
Infinite Stars is based on the ilevel of the item so hard to say
Or do you mean like how much corruption?
opal python
yh how much corruption
warm plinth
R2 is 50, R3 is 75
opal python
and r1 is 20 i guess?
warm plinth
Yeah
sharp night
staff is bad because it shares cd with the on-use trinkets and gives less int 😦
strong forum
ye we just found out
sick sentinel
if you use font you can use the staf for the last 10 seconds of font as well.
super op for destro locks.
during infernal
and dark soul at the same time
font start, internal, 10 seconds into infernal use dark soul, 20 seconds into infernal pop staff. laugh at damage and start of god complex begins.
cinder fjord
Does using devastator over anger management provide that much extra utility? I know it's slightly better for ST dps but I like having an extra button to press.
undone sun
you mean over Booming voice?
cinder fjord
Erm yeah
undone sun
don't think the utility aspect would change much on that choice
shadow wind
can i still block attacks while casting a brez?
warm plinth
If it works like every other channeled/casted ability, you cannot
left hatch
Deva vs Booming voice don't really have a utlity aspect, the choice comes down to better st damage vs WAY better aoe damage + more rage gen
and that rage gen makes a nice offensive/defensive feedback loop of more cds to spam
its extremely rare you hit Deva in aoe anyway due to the free revenge procs happening so regularly, so you'll only notice a rotational change in ST
and even then... your muscle memory will twitch press the deva keybind on empty globals after awhile anyway
orchid halo
I know this is asked a lot, but need help with trinkets. I run prot OS for mythics only. Have a 430 Urchin, 455 vial, 460 vita and 475 socketed Wrathion trink.
tardy warren
Just played the azerite vendor lottery and scored! Got the 475 helm of abyssal malevolence 😊
left hatch
very nice
warm plinth
Noice
warm tulip
tanknotes says you can spell reflect vexiona's shattered resolve, do you cast it when the debuff is about to expire or before she uses the debuff on you
warm tulip
the raid still takes the damage right
warm tulip
thanks
sharp rover
Overwhelming Power or Unstable Flames for mythic+?
vivid sparrow
What y’all think about https://www.wowhead.com/item=173940/sigil-of-warding
I don’t have it but I was trying to figure if it’s worth going for
undone sun
not amazing, very niche uses
vivid sparrow
Hmm. I’m using jes howl and the one from workshop right now. Was trying to figure out which trinkets would be good for mainly pushing keys
unkempt seal
i started using 475 sigil of warding, the thing that is nice about it is it pretty much allows my healer to ignore me for 1 pull every 2 mins and full dps
sick sentinel
You can be ignored every pull u have avatar and lucid already
What does sigil do for u
unkempt seal
rotate on pulls u dont have lucid up?
im only doing mid level keys (15-17) so it probably dosent work for higher stuff
vivid sparrow
so what are some good trinket suggestions
left hatch
well for one never. ever use workshop trinket
even if its a 60ilvl loss
that trinket is THE worst in the game
Wrathion, Rezan, Vita and Block are the 4 best general use
honorable mention to Nzoth one
15-17 isn't worth lucid major either
sigil trinket is basically only worth using if you NEED that 6-9s (idr how long) abrosb to survive. and know you'll use it roughly on cd
which mainly will come into play in raid to survive burst damage
if you arn't pulling big enough that you need it or you 100% will die, you get more overall benefit (both offensivel and defensively) from something else
and the overall damage reduction from something like the haste trinket will make more freetime for your healer than 6s windows of an absorb would
same idea with lucid. if you don't absolutely need it to survive, its not worth it
its only for very high keys, with very big pulls
otherwise kyothi is right, your healer ignoring you comes from proper play and if your damage intake is truly 0 you need to be pulling more
and 6s of invuln where they can dps <<<<overall damage smoothing so at most you need hots most of the time
hushed cobalt
would a workshop15 warrant null dynamo minor?
left hatch
actually probably yes
Workshop has basically no aoe
so ST build is the way to go
(even on fortified)
warm plinth
Well, that being said, you're still not gonna proc it on CD
You'll get some procs on Tussle Tonks during vent jets while you're kiting the pummeler around (which is basically nothing), and maybe a couple procs on KUJO before healer dispels. And then Machinist is all about avoiding the damage, so you won't proc it there hardly at all
Only time you're gonna proc it on CD is on King Mecha
And even then only P1
Most of the magic damage on trash even is either dispelled or kicked
hushed cobalt
null did 7.5% healig overall, and 4.3% damage
vague carbon
Hey are the bracers from mecha that on use give parry ect useful at all?
hushed cobalt
not if you have equal ilvl
vague carbon
i ahve 20 ilvl lower with haste crit and socket :/
sick sentinel
anyone know if the eels at the end of shrine bolster?
warm plinth
They do not
warm plinth
o_o;
sick sentinel
I will drink
plush prism
hey y'all what are our best corruption effects?
i now have 3 great pieces with corruption effects so i have to remove one
sharp night
what're your options
plush prism
out of damage and healing with crits, void ritual, and haste from all sources, damage and healing with crits is probably the worst yeah?
unkempt latch
Dropping 30ilvls on the belt for TD2 in m+, big deal or not?
sweet summit
TD is a big deal yes
hollow sentinel
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/P21tDc6VzJ9BfgZm#fight=2&type=damage-done&source=6 my prot warri asked me why he is doing so low dps. Is it only his corruption or more?
ionic fern
Oh boy.
- ST fights damage wise should be Devastator instead of Booming Voice
2)If he does run Booming Voice then he shouldn't spam Devastate as much as he did - it's the lowest priority ability in your kit.
hollow sentinel
Okay so change talent as well for ST fighat and use much less devastate if using voice. Does Devastator reduce the survivability much loosing the CD reduce?
ionic fern
He missed out on both Demo shout AND Avatar casts which are both huge for damage.
It will be a bit less rage income but in shouldn't affect it by too much.
ebon hound
Donnerknall 
hollow sentinel
Okay so for ST fights devastate and use demo/avatar more (probably I will build him a good WA for his UI)
ionic fern
So to sum it up.
1)User Devastator instead of Booming Voice on ST fights
2)Don't spam Devastate if you're using Booming Voice - only use it when literally everything else is on CD.
3)Use Avatar more often since that's a huge chunk of your damage
4)Use Demo Shout more often if running Booming Voice since it's 40 rage per cast.
Also
These are his Avatar casts:
They should look more like this:
hollow sentinel
He got infinite star yesterday, that should also help ST? As far as I read in guides dmg corruption is preferred in mythic
ionic fern
Inside Avatar window you CAN and SHOULD use Thunder Clap every other GCD.
Infinity Stars will increase his ST damage yes - but currently his problem is that he's playing poorly
hollow sentinel
Okay many thanks for taking time to help me out here! Much appreciated
ionic fern
.No worries. Just get him to join this Discord so we can help him directly . 🙂
hollow sentinel
We only raid 3 hours per week, so I want to optimize wherever I can
I will tell him 👍
I am still a bit disappointed that we didn't clear the last raid :D
glacial flint
which major essence u use for solo visions ?
ionic fern
CoF.
glacial flint
yeah did that too last time 🙂
ionic fern
We have enough AoE damage already so your essences/trinkets should be ST oriented . 🙂
Here's a ST sim with all the different corruption changes for you guys:
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6qQLMENZt99gNXQPp5xkqM
TLDR;
IS3>>>>TD3>IS2>=EV3>TA3>TD2>EV2>TA2>=**VOID RITUAL3 **
shadow wind
Is that with no one else having void ritual?
brittle owl
🤔
you can switch essences in visions
go WV for trash for burst aoe and CoF for bosses
ez
ionic fern
@shadow wind yes.
If you add allies then it goes up roughly ~500 DPS going past TA2
oblique garnet
@ionic fern How do you feel about cheesing raids with 16 tanks? 🙂
to get 16x Strength of the warden stamina buff :))
ionic fern
Lemme guess...Boost?
oblique garnet
yes
ionic fern
😂
oblique garnet
EV nerf doesnt do much when you have 1.6m hp pool
ionic fern
Sounds reasonable. 👀
oblique garnet
70k dps on xanesh 🙂
ionic fern
Why bring DPS at all - just all tanks. 🤷
oblique garnet
Well yeah if every tank has ev's and tds you could probably clear mythic up to raden/ilgy
with 16/17 tanks 3 healers
and unless they add cap to Strength of the warden its something we will most likely see at some point of this expansion
ionic fern
Here's a ST sim with all the different corruption changes for you guys:
https://...
Jeah, definetly.
Wonder if they'll try it in Mythic.
oblique garnet
probably when its on farm
tropic cobalt
If i have my loot spec set to protection. Will the IS and EV corruption also be on that gear or is it only tied to dps "gear" ?
ionic fern
They are not tied to lootspecs.
strong forum
Corruptions have nothing to do with loot spec
uncut fractal
do you guys do open world content as prot as well?
ionic fern
Yes.
strong forum
Yes.
hidden plaza
sick sentinel
servant splitter
stoic forge
are corruption drops based on specialisation ?
do I need to be in arms or fury to get TD and EV ?
Haven't seen a single one since the patch release
median kraken
stoic forge
jesus i always miss xd lol
last time also
sorry guys
only corruptions i get is the mastery and vers thing
got 3 waist from 3 weekly chest
seems I am just unlucky
stone lodge
Does a rank 1 Conflict and Strife essence give more vers than an Aegis of the Deep rank 3 ?
left hatch
no, CnS not really worth using till r3
brittle owl
what
biggest gain for CnS is r2, r3 just adds 3 more stacks
with r2 you have 100% uptime guaranteed
Aegis of the Deep is useless on ST
left hatch
right, but until those extra 3 stacks its not worth compared to options like lucid or sphere
left hatch
mm didn't think about corruption
brittle owl
also trinkets
brittle owl
r2 CnS is defo worth the slot
left hatch
and up until that point aegis is much more competitive with it
brittle owl
that's not a definitive thing
it depends on how you pull
and, again, CnS, even at r1, is better on ST than Aegis
which is essentially a dead minor on most boss fights
left hatch
right, but even without playing around it losing almost 40% of hte verse value of CnS
brings them much closer together overall
stone lodge
i am very confused by essences:P i mostly do m+ trying to push past 12 so i usually have VoP for major and Memory of lucid dreams+Touch of the Everlasting (need the corruption resistance) as minors. im just wondering what do use as the third minor
i considered using Nullification Dynamo but not sure its worth it
left hatch
Null isn't generally worth it in M+
stone lodge
so i was wondering for either CnS or Aegis for that last spot
stone lodge
yeah i wanna get rid of that
would you recommend one of the other new ones with the corruption ?
left hatch
Formless is ideal for resistance, but if your group is using a lot of passives like VoP or doesn't stagger usage
stone lodge
as better than everlasting ?
spare delta
try few rounds with null on.. Kinda big minor for me on m+
left hatch
its not big compared to the other choices
spare delta
Bolstering week, cannot make pick pulls.
left hatch
The only dungeon it truly shines in is Workshop, because its a ST boss rush anyway
uhhh..... the value of Null isn't in the absorb
its taken in raid for the consistent dps increase
which is moot if you're using it in bolstering
stone lodge
@left hatch rank 3 Aegis in theory should be better than rank 1 CnS in m+ right ?
left hatch
and because of the damage split and inconsistency in consuming it outscaled hard by the other good options for prot in 3+ target
this week id go CnS cause tyr and no big pulls
stone lodge
ok yeah makes sense you will consistently have more vers with CnS this week
left hatch
If you want DR from null, a verse minor is better
if you want dps than basically every minor is better after 2 targets
otherwise its a dead slot for 70+% of hte dungeon, and even when it does pop the damage split makes it lackluster compared to any of the stat ones that scale
stone lodge
@left hatch cheers 🙂
sick sentinel
man I need TD
echoing does less than lash of the void and I'm a tank
can only do like 56k in freehold now
mild river
I hate this week with all my heart. Slow pulls all day long. So much fun 😩
shut summit
shadow tapir
Anyone with mythic Wrathion tips? Specifically, I am getting trucked by Searing Breath stacks, it’s survivable but forcing me to bring Sigil of Warding trinket.
I’ve been handling them with 1st cast Spell Reflect and ignore pain. 2nd cast Sigil and Ignore Pain. Next time up the 1st cast is again Spell Reflect and Ignore pain, 2nd cast is Shield wall and ignore pain. Is there a better way to be doing this?
brittle owl
👀
you don't need anything for the first one
you SR the second
and ask for an external if you don't have it up for the next time you tank (assuming you go first)
if you go second you have 0 issues
there is absolutely no reason to use a cd on the first stack
if you really wanna be super safe you can always hold demo shout for the second stack i guess and cycle that with SR but...that's very far from what would be considered "good play"
ionic fern
If you're the second tank (as in you don't start on the boss) then your 2nd breath will overlap with Incineration which can be spicy at times but in general i:
1)DS+IP
2)SR+IP
brittle owl
^
remote dawn
what do you think of Leech enchantment and azerite traits? in higher keys 17 and higher?
brittle owl
same thing goes with going first, you might need an external for the "second" second breath"
remote dawn
😄
ionic fern
If you're talking about Bloodsport & Siphoning then definetly no.
remote dawn
i see it on noawh and rads
ionic fern
Not sure what that has to do with anything? 👀
I see them swapping enchants every week.
remote dawn
okay i keep an eye on it 😄
ionic fern
Tried to find my copy-paste about r.io tanks but can't, smh.
Something in the lines of:
Don't compare yourself to top r.io tanks since there's a very high chance the keys/circumstances that you are doing keys are very different.
Stuff like: pulls, team comps, team synergy, healer involvement in DPS/CC'ing, different dungeons, key level etc all play a role.
There are times where top r.io tanks run Siphoning for no reason..then they go back to Force Multiplier etcetcetc.
Can't blindly copy-paste everything you see.
strong forum
They often don't put as much thought into it aswell
Top rio players aren't top players of their class, they're just top at playing the dungeons
brittle owl
as a general rule you should never blindly copy paste stuff in a world where, shockingly, you can even ask the person you're desperate to copy for an explanation
lucid pendant
What's DS
ionic fern
Demo Shout.
strong forum
Demo shout
lucid pendant
Ah yea
remote dawn
yes I understand that you don't copy blindly, but they have to think something too and I saw yesterday that leech makes up a large (around 7%) part of the heal
i know for10-15 keys dmg over all but for 18 19er Keys?
sick sentinel
I see we are talking about leech
final mist
Top tier players have a tendency to think less and do more
Which goes for all games, not just wow
There’s no real discernible reason for the leech, it doesn’t actually do much of anything compared to other shit
It just feels like it does because it’s more visible
left hatch
7% of healing on a tank that HPS means next to nothing
strong forum
7% and large do not go hand in hand
If you said like 20%+ it could be okay
But 7% is literally nothing
And what sal said
remote dawn
i am testing it ^^
left hatch
its easy to slip into confirmation bias with things like heals from warden or absorbs cause you can see the impact like sal said
where the reduction from vastly superior stats like haste/crit/verse are hidden
our kit is based around mitigating or flat out not taking damage
having a healing meter open at all shows you're fixated on bad metrics for your survivability
and if your measure for success is 'oh now i heal more' then other bad choices (like stacking Bloodsport and running No Mercy) will also 'test' better
because it inflates HPS at the expense of things that are much more impactful to your play
brittle owl
yo
how bout you read a guide first, learn to do the difficult content, then copy shit when you're stuck in said diff content
stop looking for panaceea
left hatch
^ breaking the meta is usually done in response to a hyper-specific problem
and only to address that particular problem
otherwise the meta exists for a reason
brittle owl
if you die in content appropriate to your gear then it's strictly a you problem
learn from your mistakes, don't look for crutches
exotic spoke
I see we’re on that leech meta now /s
left hatch
maybe i didn't read up enough, but i don't think he was dying
its the "well i saw Naowh do it once so it must be good" mentality
brittle owl
that was more of a general statement
left hatch
and wanting to HPS pad
exotic spoke
It’s a nice tertiary stat. If you get it great if you don’t then oh well.
exotic spoke
Calm down there Morrison. They are a small indie company
exotic spoke
Sarcasm aside - almost got a 4 mask full clear last night. Was super scuffed. 3 zones + thrall
left hatch
i saw it on a stream once is the exact same credential level as "i have 9/12 experience because i watched the fatboss vid"
exotic spoke
So close to starting to save for sockets
tame garden
left hatch
and thats awesome! our group did a 2 clear but chickened out of trying for 3 yet
2 was really tight
exotic spoke
7500 mementos and then it’s saving for socket time
tame garden
I've only done solo 2mask. I'm pepega and am too lazy to grab the stormwind masks every time its up
Maybe next week
exotic spoke
I think we’re going for 5 mask in two weeks
left hatch
and it having scorched feet up every time is no bueno
iv yeeted myself into the river with it at least twice now
tame garden
How many runs next week for cloak upgrade?
exotic spoke
1
left hatch
isn't 1 the week after?
left hatch
i think its 4
left hatch
then 11->12 is 1
tame garden
Wow
exotic spoke
Then 1, 3, 6, 9
tame garden
Massive jebait
exotic spoke
Complete jebait
tame garden
Its 8 pages or what
exotic spoke
It’s funny. I just got the 50k mementos achievement
And like two days ago some people I know got the like 10k mementos achievement lol
left hatch
^ theres a good 40k~ memento gap between my group and a good 1/2 my raid team
exotic spoke
And people were telling me there isn’t a reason to start pushing and going fro full clears ASAP.
Not in guild just in generap
left hatch
i mean... fun value?
ignoring sockets
theres no real point to push passed 15
besides the challenge
and the fun
sounds like ppl trying to justify being bad/lazy
tame garden
I feel personally attacked
strong forum
I don't even have the 10k cheevo
exotic spoke
Speg I was told on Reddit that I was wrong and doing anything more than the bare minimum wasn’t worth it
strong forum
I think
exotic spoke
Reddit was great
tame garden
Riki you will get your early socket
exotic spoke
When they had sites for nhl streams nba streams etc
tame garden
And you can shove your 50 haste in their face
tame garden
😏
left hatch
eh mementos arn't like AP with a catchup farm, the work hes putting in now to do it is something everyone else will eventually have to do later
so waiting to grind wont be distinctly more time effective than it is in other aspects
but sockets also arn't insane value
tame garden
Cant wait to socket my gushing wound ring
analog swift
HM?
left hatch
benthic also had the additional benefit on it?
left hatch
i didn't say they arn't valuable
analog swift
Nah I’m kidding bb
brittle owl
also trinket damage scaling with vers
left hatch
i said its not insane
exotic spoke
If sockets aren’t insane then explain why Chewbacca lives on Endor
left hatch
its significant but not game breaking
sick sentinel
Just roll a socket on every 475 piece you get like me
brittle owl
not insane? then explain why HoD = 6 sockets and is a good trait hmm
sick sentinel
I have been allowed to be grossly lazy
exotic spoke
It doesn’t make any sense?
brittle owl
fuck you hawgz
tame garden
What
sick sentinel
T3 TD seal of questionable loyalties with socket from box last week
sick sentinel
Fuckin ez
left hatch
but at what cost
brittle owl
virtually no cost lmao
get corr leech
it's arguably easier to get leech gear this patch
left hatch
theres opportunity cost there of no TD ):
brittle owl
who would need TD
tame garden
Is life without TD even worth living
brittle owl
if you could go over 100% leech
sick sentinel
You would be invincible
left hatch
bring back end of legion no healer meta
brittle owl
you would be invisible
tame garden
My dh died to instant TD proc on pull last night and lost his bots in junkyard
sick sentinel
Kek
tame garden
Love it
exotic spoke
Lol
sick sentinel
My personal favorite is when I walk in and melee something without casting a single ability and i get a proc
exotic spoke
I mean. Drunk driving is never a laughing matter
sick sentinel
Correct. But you get the idea
exotic spoke
I know 😛
tame garden
Wait
exotic spoke
Oh Jesus
tame garden
Is that a thing
strong forum
Guess my group is dead now
tame garden
Do you just 1shot your group
strong forum
Yes speg, you kill your group
tame garden
My god
strong forum
Beta for Azeroth strikes again
exotic spoke
So what I’m hearing is don’t use IS in temple and don’t use TD in shrine
strong forum
Can't wait to proc IS in my team
Ye pmuch riki
We wiped to temple first boss twice
Cuz of that
:) still made the timer
Then died to explosive on last boss
final mist
Don’t use TD in TD either
tame garden
Td in waycrest also risky
strong forum
Don't use TD in WM either
final mist
Place is already a mess and you just pull shit through walls and floors
exotic spoke
It’ll be fine 🙂
strong forum
Basically, if the dungeon has multiple floors or Mc, don't use TD.
If the dungeon has reflect stuff, don't use Stars
final mist
We were on the second level and my TD pulled mobs from the first, second, and third floors
tame garden
Impressive
final mist
I was pissed
tame garden
I have done 1 tol this season so far
exotic spoke
That is impressive
tame garden
I wanna see how few I can do
strong forum
Same speg
tame garden
The entire season
strong forum
Did 1 TD 16, timed it by 3 seconds
final mist
If you have dps with the 2H Maut weapon, that’s as bad too
strong forum
Never again
final mist
360 degree sphere proc btw
tame garden
Next week is giga so I'll prob do 1 big td then never again
exotic spoke
Next week is time to pump
tame garden
Hope they learn for shadowland dungeons
final mist
The Maut wep is like bear thrash only worse because it’s your DPS and not you doing it intentionally in Kara as a speed strat
tame garden
And dont make paper wall dungeons again
exotic spoke
I love the design and flavor of TD. But Jesus Christ fix the walls and geometry
left hatch
id like if they rethink how to make trash hard and compelling... jsut slapping a bunch of 'if you dont interrupt this you die' kinda forces you into always having 2 melee or a shaman in some dungeons :/
tame garden
Idk I like the bosses in TD but the trash is lame
And the layout is annoying with seeing nameplates of mobs on other floors
strong forum
I love the mechagon trash
tame garden
I hate that I have to reduce my nameplate range just for TD
strong forum
Not too hard, not too easy