protection

[plush tendon]

granted I play human, but I have a race swap saved just in case I actually want to push

[opal ledge]

i'm a dark iron dwarf, is pretty close to dwarf

[plush tendon]

Dark Iron is fine to

[lofty warren]

Yoda said dark iron dwarf better early in xpax sue to something something scaling but it really varies based on how much stuff youre dispelling?

[plush tendon]

I dont know how

I think Yoda is just wrong on that

[echo egret]

First tries on Belo'ren tonight, I'm not sure I understood well :
theboss does one color breath on the current tank, swap if not the correct color ? then re-swap after for the other color ?

[plush tendon]

regardless, either Dark Iron/Dwarf accomplish the same goal

a dispell

[opal ledge]

the bonus str from dark iron racial means a lot in season 1.
it's close to 10% str.
with more str we get, the buff will mean less and less

[lofty warren]

He said that dark iron gives flat amount while dwarf gives a percent and percent scales better later in season

[plush tendon]

I dont like that the active dps and def for Dark Iron is tied to the same button

whereas for Dwarf they just get 2% crit damage

and can use stoneform when needed

[steady pond]

Hello prot brothers, why so many streamers are not running apex? is this a survival gain? sorry if this was already asked to many times

[toxic pewter]

if i were to race change it would def be just regular dwarf

[plush tendon]

they are wrong and are slowly adjusting to a better 'def' build

[lusty grotto]

its not a survival gain

[plush tendon]

the 1/4 apex build was a early season overcook

[lusty grotto]

augusto is exactly right

[chrome hull]

It’s been asked a lot. The big brains here think it’s dumb. The people on leaderboards do both things successfully

[steady pond]

but what about the math? is it mathing? batter or worse?

[cerulean tusk]

1/4 is da way, I dont need up my clap dam, so two wasted points and apex itself dam is laughable. So question is if you want to waste 2 points to get the final 4th

[lusty grotto]

of course they do, they are excellent players, talents are not gonna make or break their skill

[lusty grotto]

read this #protection message

[plush tendon]

[cerulean tusk]

you know I am right!

[plush tendon]

but naw, play what you like, but Im very confident that 4/4 is better

[steady pond]

I'm running 14s rn played with both build cant tell the diference tbh, but apex does more dmg

[plush tendon]

and there are other places you can swap talents around

if you want more 'def'

[opal ledge]

i strongly belive the "defensive" build plays 4/4 but drops punish.
i do understand people want to play last stand and indom, but dropping the 4/4 for punish makes no sense to me anymore

[steady pond]

Last stand feels kinda shitty, but indom looks so nice to have

[chrome hull]

Math is math. None of us are playing with top 10 healers. Run both setups and ask your healer what they think imo

[lofty warren]

Ur not gonna like vdh then

[brisk dove]

whatre our rules for pwar?

[chrome hull]

Like Nim said, skill matters more than your apex build

[cerulean tusk]

Keep shieldblock up at all times, ignore pain is a rage cap spender not uptime buff

[lusty grotto]

youre gonna have to be a little more specific

[cerulean tusk]

those are the two rules

rest are free for all

[opal ledge]

you lose like 15% dmg with the 1/4 build...
i forgot the number but dropping punish and BSC to go 4/4 only gives like 5% dmg or something like that. (and it plays kinda the same)

[lofty warren]

https://youtu.be/IgDLvI_o9OY?si=ONpPPfBHGaD8y_z6

Found the video where he talks about dwarf and dark iron

[chrome hull]

And don’t spam revenge like me because your fingers are bored and end up rage starved

[knotty mantle]

Why does wowhead recommend crit after haste when crit has 0 impact on magic damage or bleeds? Vers seems like a much more consistent stat.

[brisk dove]

k so always keep up block, ignore pain when im about to cap.

[lusty grotto]

we dont use wowhead anymore, use icy-veins

[brisk dove]

rest is just maintain aggro?

[steady pond]

Ok boys ill swap back to 4/4 and see how it feels, thanks for you patience

[lusty grotto]

and to answer your question

[lofty warren]

Imo the diff between dark iron and regular is probably like 0.005%. Both can do the thing and are better than the other races

[lusty grotto]

we have tools that are better than vers

built in

any vers you gain, is minimal, for vers to have an actual effect you would need a massive amount of it

any key level up, your vers DR is gone

[plush tendon]

oh yea, the diff is super minimal

[lusty grotto]

crit minimizes damage in a consistent fashion

[plush tendon]

still, Dwarf racial (regardless of either one) is busted

[cerulean tusk]

15% damage, from increasing clap and apex dam by 20%, that are 7% of your damage total, then shield slam 30% on a 20%

Quick math, 20% on 7, 1.4%. 30% on 20, 6%

7% lets call that a a clean 9% for CDR on Demo to be nice

[plush tendon]

and has been for years

[steady pond]

does mastery gives the most defensive value?

[lusty grotto]

no

crit does

[cerulean tusk]

Against autos, yes

[chrome hull]

No patience needed my guy. This is a learning space. Questions are great

[plush tendon]

you really just need to prio haste

and sim for the rest

[fallow fern]

How come on droptimizer, there is no option to select 289?

[lofty warren]

How does ppal shield work against spells?

[lusty grotto]

yeah Augusto nailed it, haste has by far the most defensive value

[steady pond]

but sims are for dmg no?

[plush tendon]

the sim will end up giving you a good distribution of stats

[steady pond]

well dead mobs dont hit me yea

[plush tendon]

all stats do something and help

[cerulean tusk]

If you dont trust the sims, feel free to ignore em and just do your own meme strat - it wont break or make you

[lusty grotto]

sims are for damage yes, but any added damage due to stat changes means you will be more defensive

[plush tendon]

theres no point in just focusing on two and ignoring the others

haste is prio (up to a point, but we wont reach that point this season)

sim for master/vers/crit

and youll be good

[mighty valley]

there's a decent enough correlation between dps and survivability and there's no actual way to "sim defensiveness"

[lusty grotto]

[cerulean tusk]

Ok, so more interesting question, what would be the WORST stat combo to meme

I guess vers/crit

[lusty grotto]

anything without haste

[mighty valley]

so your choices end up being "sim your secondaries (somewhat accurate)" and "feelycraft (you're making it up yourself)"

[lusty grotto]

but otherwise it doesnt matter

[undone beacon]

Stam/leech

[plush tendon]

a full on mastery stack build

0% of all other stats

XD

[toxic pewter]

full int build

[undone beacon]

I miss that guy that did stammaxxing

[cerulean tusk]

Full mastery, would kinda work, berserkers wouldnt even tickle

[lusty grotto]

yeah i mean just be like the reddit guy that baited choco

geared full mastery, thought all other stats were bad

obviously not that bright

[mighty valley]

who was that guy who was here all beta, maxing out his mastery and posting damage meter screenshots

and then got banned

[lusty grotto]

or just plain baiting

probably the same redditor

[opal ledge]

my monk got a timewalking trinket with 800 stamina lol

[mighty valley]

dps_dmg or something

[lusty grotto]

oh yeah

how could i forget about him

[toxic pewter]

S++ tier

[mighty valley]

the S stands for Stamina

[undone beacon]

Oh man dpsdmg

What a gamer

[toxic pewter]

:nodders:

[plush tendon]

ill be real... I do this

[undone beacon]

Got banned for timeout evading

[plush tendon]

I go off vibes for my stats XD

just make sure I get a good amount of hate

[toxic pewter]

i remember dpsdmg

[lusty grotto]

guy wanted the last word in everything, probably too young

[plush tendon]

sprinkle some crit, add some vers, maybe dabble in mastery

[toxic pewter]

wasnt he the psychologist psychiatrist guy

[plush tendon]

whatever looks good

[lusty grotto]

lmao i remember that

[undone beacon]

You also aren’t in here trying to convince people that sim that they’re wrong so we all j chillin

[mighty valley]

going off vibes for stats is fine, the problem is when people come here and say "i don't want to sim, that's only for dps. i need facts about defensive value. ergo, i will go off vibes"

[plush tendon]

I honestly get pretty close to the sim xD

I gotta sim for my wow audit every week

[brisk dove]

ok question im trying to decide on my vault.

[plush tendon]

like right now I got like 1000 haste and 900 crit and barely any vers or mastery

and Im like 'I prob need some of those other stats surely'

[brisk dove]

hero globlue or haste crit one hander

[plush tendon]

are you clearing +10s?

[undone beacon]

Is the one hander myth or hero

[plush tendon]

both are hero

[brisk dove]

not yet. im still gearing to do 10s

[plush tendon]

if you can take 6 tokens, Id unironically go with that

and get a 3rd bonus roll

to use when you hit 10

you should be able to clear a 10 without too much gear

[undone beacon]

Yeah neither option is particularly grand. A reroll will get you a myth piece out of a 10

^

[plush tendon]

and once you do, youll have 3 bonus rolls

so youll get 3 myth pieces once you get to 10

which is a huge boon to your gear prog

[solid sun]

Hope everyone is having a great day

[plush tendon]

its going ok, thanks for asking Rhino ❤️

I really want a McFlurry though

but I already had lunch

[vital stirrup]

is having 0 vers bad?

[plush tendon]

having 0 of any stat is bad

[brisk dove]

i took the tokens.

[vital stirrup]

well shit xd didnt even notice it till now

[plush tendon]

The value of stats fluctuates based on how much of each you get

thats why we recommend simming to find the best balance

[cerulean tusk]

I wouldnt worry about it

Not from a tank perspective, as all stats are solid. As DPS pov, it would be very likely that vers got some value for you there

[vital stirrup]

yea gonna sim some gems and enchants

[brisk dove]

i will say i could probably do 10s on my arms, cause i am almost 260 on them.

[undone beacon]

its very rare a spec wants 0 of a stat. I remember in DF s3/s4 on my surv hunter when i had 0 mastery from gear. Was awesome

[brisk dove]

i was wanting to pick up prot as my tank spec

[lusty grotto]

at 260 you should be fine doing 10s, we've done them at 230

[vital stirrup]

i just never really paid any attention to stats other than haste

[undone beacon]

if you're almost 260 on arms you can def be tanking 10s, if you have a shield and weapon

[lusty grotto]

not as arms, but as prot

[vital stirrup]

saw it was missing from the panel and had to do a double check

[plush tendon]

haste is for sure the prio

[lusty grotto]

hell i did 10s last week on my hpal at 232

[brisk dove]

could i craft my sword and board.

[plush tendon]

it may change in season 2/3 based on how many more stats we get

but you need a good foundation of haste for SB uptime

[lusty grotto]

[brisk dove]

or is that unrecommended to craft my weapon/shield.

[lusty grotto]

read pins

[brisk dove]

oh literally first and second... looks like im getting them crafted then going to gradually introduce myself to 10's

cause im new to tanking.

[lusty grotto]

you dont need that much gear for 10s

like we've mentioned

knowledge goes way farther

[plush tendon]

yea, just send it my dude

dont be nervous

just get in there and start doing em

[brisk dove]

i just dont wanna mess it up.

[lusty grotto]

send the soridormi shit to learn, practice in follower dungeons

[lusty grotto]

messing up is the best teacher

[plush tendon]

theres a lot of room for error

[undone beacon]

theres only one way to learn, and thats by doing!

[plush tendon]

and failure is the best teacher

[lusty grotto]

youre not gonna get instantly banned for messing up

[undone beacon]

And if you brick a key, you learn and go next

You're a tank, in high demand

[lusty grotto]

☝️

[plush tendon]

yea, tanks are special

[brisk dove]

so its not like when i was doing my ww monk and everyone kept shitting on me.

[opal ledge]

it's actually better to go undergear, cuz you will need to learn... if you just step in 280 on a 10, you will mess up and will have no clue about it cuz it's a 10, and you don't get punished when you mess up

[plush tendon]

it may seem like theres a lot of responsiblity on the tank in dungeon (and there is)

but we also get to join keys when we like cause there are so few willing tank players

[lusty grotto]

thats not gonna change, people are people, just go next, its a video game, whatever they say means nothing, words dont hurt you unless you let them

so do not let them

[brisk dove]

the responsibility seems less huge and more understanding what to pull when.

[plush tendon]

if you are looking to improve as a player, download warcraftlogs and bring logs of dungeons/raid bosses here

and we can assist in improving gameplay

but you gotta get in there for us to help you

[lusty grotto]

ok lets see if im still bugged

since im back from the office

[bright rain]

Is the gearing guidance to still craft a 285 sword and shield?

[lusty grotto]

yes

[bright rain]

Not sure if the voidcores change anything

[lusty grotto]

what the pins say, still goes

[bright rain]

Thanks!

[lusty grotto]

we'll cross that bridge when we get there , you cant do anything with them right now

except bonus rolls

[bright rain]

Ok makes sense. Thanks! Just wanted to double check before I sent my 285 sword craft in

[patent ginkgo]

Is it possible to roll very rares with bonus rolls?
crown neck for example

[undone beacon]

Yep

[opal ledge]

haranir racial can be useful to pull packs, never tought of it

[bright rain]

Where are you all looking for guidance on what gear to target with bonus rolls? I am running M+ 10s all day but wont bother with raids until later. All of the websites have different bis gear listed

[plush tendon]

its really dependent on what content you are doing and what your gear set looks like now

[patent ginkgo]

It kinda depends on your raid situation I'd say?

[plush tendon]

Xenas is good cause those rings are nice

and there is also a shield in that loot pool

[opal ledge]

depends on your goal, if you are min maxing you can craft a 2 handed weapon to save crests... especially with how bonus rolls are working. you are guaranteed to get a shield and sword myth track before the voidforge comes out. so you craft a 2handed weapon with 80 crests, and save 160 crests on those two

[plush tendon]

obviously Mythic Chim and Beloran are giga value

[bright rain]

Whoa how does it work?

[lofty warren]

If i got item #1 from vault and I bonus roll the dungeon that has that item, is the item that I already have/looted in the bonus roll loot pool?

[opal ledge]

when you get a 2handed weapon, you will be able to uprade 1h weapon and shield for free until it hits the same ilvl.
usually cuz upgrading 2handed weapons have double the cost.

crafting a 2handed will require 4 spraks... but for some reason just 80 crests (unless they change/fixed and its 160 now)
so you save 80 crests when upgrading the shield+1 hander

[jagged pier]

Thats how it works for the crest upgrades, we dont know how it works with the 298 stuff tho

[brisk dove]

so i noticed arms and prot want simmilar stats

[mighty valley]

yep

if you play tank and dps often, skew towards your dps sims tbh

all stats are fine for prot

[plush tendon]

you basically can use your arms loadout (minus shield/sword) for prot

[jagged pier]

Arms is also

[lusty grotto]

@sharp gale

im still bugged

cloak still there

fml

[sharp gale]

Don’t roll then

[jagged pier]

[solid sun]

That’s a feelsbad

[undone beacon]

Get two cloaks and merge them like one of those mobile games

[lusty grotto]

fuck man

[sharp gale]

Mine was without the barbed choker / bc I got it

[lusty grotto]

i wanted that 2h

[lofty warren]

What happens after your Haste goes over 1320?

[solid sun]

Believe it or not, straight to jail

[sharp gale]

I will do 2 pit on second war after raid just to check

[jagged pier]

https://tenor.com/view/jail-right-to-jail-right-away-parks-and-recreation-parks-and-rec-gif-16177531

[fringe mural]

overcooked

[mighty valley]

death pending a criminal investigation

[lusty grotto]

time to run droptimizer and go for the next 2nd one

except no 2h

[jagged pier]

Just go aa

1hander 2 hander shield

Box

[lusty grotto]

i have shield though

[lofty warren]

Didnt know it was that illegal to go over 1320.

But for real what happens

[mighty valley]

10% diminishing return

[fringe mural]

every haste over 1320 has 90% effectivity

so it's just 0,9 points of haste

[lusty grotto]

nothing for us

just keep going haste

[plush tendon]

^

[lofty warren]

In s1 can that ever happen and does pwar even care is haste is diminished?

[sharp gale]

I finally got the shield from raid for second spec, I can rest on that

[lusty grotto]

no

not this season

[plush tendon]

yea, its practically impossible to have too much haste this season

[fringe mural]

it can happen but it doesn't matter still does it?

[mighty valley]

it's usually an s3 concern when you start getting into the 20% dr range

[lusty grotto]

1st dr, 2nd dr, they dont matter

[lofty warren]

Gotcha. And even if it did we sont give a fck keep mashing haste

[fringe mural]

3rd matters and we won't reach it

[lusty grotto]

it cannot

with proper gearing you cant

[sharp gale]

Only pot + flask can give you the Dr

[fringe mural]

oh you mean too much haste means way over 2nd dr point

[lofty warren]

If you have so much haste can you risk overcapping shield block duration (since it caps at 3x the original time)?

[lusty grotto]

in s3, with HR, yes

not this season

[fringe mural]

but would that not matter since you would switch to itf anyways with 1200 and up?

or say 1320 and up if we talk about dr

[wanton void]

dr?

[lusty grotto]

diminishing returns

[wanton void]

ahhh

[mighty valley]

you have to work SO hard for no reason to hit sb cap

[lofty warren]

Dingus remedy

[fringe mural]

still playing hr with amounts of haste of 1500 and up wouldn't be very smart though

[lofty warren]

If youre using itf can you ever overcap sb with 999999 haste?

[lusty grotto]

with 999999 haste, sure

[frosty mango]

Disagree, itf can lose value in certain scenarios

[fringe mural]

it always gives 2% haste does it not?

[lofty warren]

Can overcap sb with any reasonable amount of haste (including s3)?

[fringe mural]

with a max of 8%

[plush tendon]

in cases where you cant keep max stacks it 100% loses value

[opal ledge]

with 1200 haste i felt it was not enough for SB 100%... sometimes there was like a 1 sec gap
idk if i did something wrong

[plush tendon]

but those are generally rare

[lusty grotto]

only with HR and in s3

thats the 2nd time i answer you

the same thing

[fringe mural]

ask again

do it

[lofty warren]

Tbh I never even think amount hr vs itf i just look at my haste and compare to 1188 or whatever that number is. Do you ever want to hr if your haste is above?

[fringe mural]

it's a theoretical value which takes into account perfect shield charge usage i think

[sharp gale]

You want Hr if you struggle with shield block, period

[lofty warren]

Struggle? I push the button what is there to struggle with

[fringe mural]

if you won't use shield charge on cd every time it will fall off even with 1188

[solid sun]

Don't get pepega'd

[molten gorge]

so real

[opal ledge]

struggle means you get 1 sec of SB downtime and die.

[fringe mural]

the sim is for a warrior sitting on a target playing a perfect rotation

then 1188 is enough

[sharp gale]

The 1200 point is not from a sim

[lusty grotto]

then what is the answer to your question by elimination process ?

[fringe mural]

it is a calculation

which is simulated in a way

because it's not real

[lofty warren]

Ohhh. Actually idk my sb uptime %.

[lusty grotto]

pretty simple to figure out

[fringe mural]

but agreed it's analytical not numeric

[sharp gale]

That’s how many haste to have I don’t remember which haste % which is on average what you need to not die, basically

[lofty warren]

#protection message

I thought this message meant that hr (even if you have high haste) is sometimes correct

[lusty grotto]

yes

for the reason Happy mentioned

[rigid veldt]

Well, that was annoying. In a delve and constantly getting dotted by an invisible mob and almost insta killed

[fringe mural]

isn't it the number of haste you would need to have for the 2% haste bonus of itf to push you over the edge of 100% sb uptime if you use sb on cd and sc to fill the gaps?

[undone beacon]

Pissed off the Tarragrue, welcome back Torghast

[fringe mural]

if it's a minimum number it should be

[tribal wharf]

since my valeera lvl sucks i just set her to healer every time

when she is strong enough i will put her as dps

[sharp gale]

No it’s the number of haste to have around 100% effective uptime in an average dungeon

[lofty warren]

#protection message

Ok i want hr if I struggle with sb. To find out if I struggle I need to find my sb uptime. If my sb uptime is not >= 100% then hr is better even if I have high haste number. That right?

[fringe mural]

why would it make sense to use that number when you have situations in that dungeon (for example with only ranged dps and a single enemy) where your sb can fall off

[lofty warren]

Can see sb uptime in details?

[fringe mural]

because it didn't factor in itf's lowest value

[lusty grotto]

logs

[lusty grotto]

thats why youre supposed to be smart with SB use

falling off means nothing

falling off WHILE GETTING HIT means everything

[solid sun]

Sounds like a motivational poster

[fringe mural]

i get that, i just thought the 1188 haste were the absolute minimum to always work

[lusty grotto]

it is the absolute minimum

[fringe mural]

if you're not smart

that is

[lusty grotto]

yes

[sharp gale]

bc you need a number to give to ppl who just die bc they play ITF everywhere

[lusty grotto]

thats what my pinned message says

repeatedly

[lofty warren]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mpR8xCft2yLzVw76?fight=4&type=damage-done

Where to find sb uptime here

[lusty grotto]

extremely important

thats why its bolded cause im yelling it

[fringe mural]

nim, i understand you

[solid sun]

Don't yell at me please :(

[mighty valley]

if there's a boss with 100% melee uptime required and you have only ranged dps... have them take a few steps forward, they'll live

[opal ledge]

you need shield block on a 9 sec cd to have the 100% uptime (maybe 9.5 or something like that)

if you play a haste trinket and other procs it will help, cuz it's a 45 sec window, you will get those haste procs kinda guaranteed in 45 sec

[fringe mural]

i just thought it was ment another way because it was, well, a very specific number

[lusty grotto]

you suck pepega

go back to school

[mighty valley]

this is why he's fatmaneat and not fatmanblock

[fringe mural]

his name is fatmaneat?

wtf

[mighty valley]

that is his warrior yes

[sharp gale]

Who is pepega then

[lofty warren]

Omg is it only 86

[toxic pewter]

he pepega

[sharp gale]

His dh ?

[fringe mural]

pepega is his discord alter ego

[mighty valley]

the point of looking at blocked hits and not just buff uptime is that you can have wasted uptime when you're not getting hit

[fringe mural]

or pepegamer was too long

[solid sun]

Your effective uptime is under 90%. It is recommended that you play HR because you are not yet capable of maintaining a quality amount of effective SB uptime.

[sharp gale]

[lusty grotto]

im massively dissapointed

[solid sun]

I recommend more time playing the game and less time in discord, as well.

[lofty warren]

But at the start of pull arent you for sure gonna get hit before you can put sb up?

[fringe mural]

you get rage the moment you press charge, not when you land

[lusty grotto]

that does not make you drop to 86% effective uptime

[sharp gale]

Can you filter with shield block up ? To see how many backshots ?

[mighty valley]

they did take charge + avatar = sb from us

[lusty grotto]

otherwise i'd be sub 95%

and im not

[mighty valley]

but it's just one gcd later

[fringe mural]

you can charge/sc in at the same time

[lusty grotto]

back to school you go pepega

[fringe mural]

if you're that desperate

[lusty grotto]

stuck in 1st grade again

[mighty valley]

i think you can take one unblocked hit rather than do a wasteful shield charge

but it's an option

[fringe mural]

it's just the beginning of the key

you don't have zero rage before the next pack do you?

[sharp gale]

I use it as third charge

[toxic pewter]

them taking away the rage from avatar def hurt us at the start of a pull if u got zero rage

[opal ledge]

unblocked hits does not always mean shield block uptime, sometimes it's back hits

[sharp gale]

You can filter with shield block buff to see backshots

[mighty valley]

yeah this is basically only first pack of the dungeon problems

[lofty warren]

How to see how many times I got stabbed in the back

[sharp gale]

#protection message

[solid sun]

idk how to filter it

[fringe mural]

unblocked hits while sb is on

[lofty warren]

I wouldnt be surprised with a bunch of chain pulling

[crisp ocean]

nebulous voidcore where do we use it?

[fringe mural]

you turn sb on as the filter

and check unblocked hits

[sharp gale]

Is there a shield block icon just above/left the dmg taken window ?

[fringe mural]

the only unblocked hits during sb up are backshots

[sharp gale]

If not you need to put a filter manually

[solid sun]

Like that?

[sharp gale]

That’s def stance

[solid sun]

Oh whoops

[tribal wharf]

at long last, i can repair shoulder

[solid sun]

There you go

[sharp gale]

And if you take unblocks while shield block up, you know what those are

[toxic pewter]

gotcha

[lofty warren]

Idk how to find it and apply that filter

[opal ledge]

what is the filter for shield block? idk how to add it

[toxic pewter]

click the shield

[sharp gale]

Manual filters with the input bar is too long to explain to you pepega, just use the default ones

[lofty warren]

Ok so that means my sb uptime is 90% with 4% getting stabbed in back?

[tribal wharf]

now see, if i can get to a state, where the only thing i have to worry about terms of gold is flasks and enchants

and zero repair cost

i could run key all day

[solid sun]

It means that while you had SB active, 10.51% of the melees that hit you were backshots

[tribal wharf]

would be fun with a group who also has similiar to that, i assume you can do that with tailoring and leatherworking

[sharp gale]

Backshots are archaic, Blizz should delete it

[toxic pewter]

lol like jsut let us block 360 degrees ?

[lofty warren]

What if im looking for "what is my sb uptime after you filter out times where I got backstabed"?

[sharp gale]

Yep

[toxic pewter]

lol hmmm

interesting

[crisp ocean]

would be much better yeah

[sharp gale]

We are tuned around always blocking anyway

And it’s not a fun skill to learn/master

[solid sun]

You had 141 hits that were unblocked while SB was active (backshots)
YOu were hit 84 times while SB wasn't active at all.

[toxic pewter]

we would basically be like a bear then

kinda sorta

except instead of armor we blockin dudes lol

[solid sun]

You still blocked 28 of those hits

[sharp gale]

Not being able to hit your target/cast abilities is enough a punishment for turning your back

[toxic pewter]

I will say we are punished quite hardd I cannot deny that

[sharp gale]

But that’s my opinion, some ppl like that mechanic

[toxic pewter]

there is jsut something so iconic about blocking stuff with shield

[lusty grotto]

on a vacuum i agree, positionals are ancient

but

it would eliminate one of the remaining two skill defining things about prot warrior

[undone beacon]

Kinda pointless to have shield blocking be your tanking identity then remove the basic skill expression of shield blocking, blocking with the shield

[lofty warren]

Number of times I was hit while sb was up /total number of times I was hit (regardless of backseat or whether sb up)

[lusty grotto]

so... would it be a good thing? thats subjective

[sharp gale]

Tanking a key is enough skill to express imo

[solid sun]

I'm going back to eating lunch

[fringe mural]

The other being rage management?

[sharp gale]

meaning everything around tanking the key

[undone beacon]

Then play literally any of the other tanks

[lusty grotto]

yup

[undone beacon]

If you dont want to worry about positioning, play a bear

[solid sun]

But every tank cares about positioning

[sharp gale]

Bear is 🐻

[lusty grotto]

all tanks benefit from not getting back shot anyway

its just a requirement for us

[undone beacon]

all tanks benefit form not getting backshot but bear benefits the least because they dont block or parry at all

[fringe mural]

Even bear

they dodge

[undone beacon]

you can be a lot sloppier with bear and get away with it

[solid sun]

Sloppy eh

Bears do be gobblin' picnic baskets

[lusty grotto]

[toxic pewter]

what % dodge does bear even have these days is it similar to parry like 20-30% or wat

[solid sun]

84%

I made that up

[undone beacon]

they get dodge based on their crit

[fringe mural]

Interesting

[frosty mango]

Problem with bear tanks is they mitigate with armor

So when things are spell heavy they tend to just die

Very similar to warrior in that regard lol

[toxic pewter]

do they still hhave like a lot of hp

[tribal wharf]

i have to be honest with you guys and direct about doom, okay,

[toxic pewter]

doesnt their mastery increase hp

[undone beacon]

they also have barkskin like every 30 seconds

and lunar beam very often for more mast and hp

[frosty mango]

Imo no not enough to factor

[undone beacon]

and frenzied regen is still very strong

[fringe mural]

bears have the problem of not being able to mitigate AND spend rage for dps

[lofty warren]

Times i got hit with sb up = 1905
Times I got hit = 2021

So that means my sb uptime is 94.3%?

I got it by adding and removing the sb filter and then looking at the casts number in the Melle row.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mpR8xCft2yLzVw76?fight=4&type=damage-taken&source=551&start=1144409&end=2693583&sourcebuffs=132404

[toxic pewter]

interesting

[sharp gale]

Bark skin is like 30% Dr no ?

[lusty grotto]

no

[fringe mural]

40

[tribal wharf]

so theres only 1 real way i give a fuck about doom news, and thats when its about john carmack or john romero or the ID games team is involved

[toxic pewter]

barkskin so strong lol

[undone beacon]

40% with talents iirc

[fringe mural]

barkskin is 40%

[frosty mango]

Yea but it’s short duration

[sharp gale]

Oh yeah I forgot they buff it with bear talent

[toxic pewter]

isnt it longer duration than shield wall

[fringe mural]

Not really short i'd say

[toxic pewter]

i thought it was at least

[tribal wharf]

so if someone takes say uhhhhhh rampage, for the arcade

[fringe mural]

Yes it's longer

[tribal wharf]

and they port that into doom

[fringe mural]

and about 30ish seconds cd

[toxic pewter]

on paper barkskin like the most op ability in the game lmao

[tribal wharf]

i dont really care unless its done EXTREMELY well

[lusty grotto]

pash we need one specifically for tangets

[toxic pewter]

yeah i said it

[fringe mural]

barkskin is really strong

[undone beacon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148897941883584512/1496239467911188711/picmix.com_13676870.gif

[lofty warren]

Hmm so then how do you find out your sb uptime if you want to exclude backseat bc (in my opinion) that is not uptime.. that is me getting stabbed in the back

[frosty mango]

Barkskin only op until it falls off

[fringe mural]

also usable while stunned too

[tribal wharf]

but, its john romero has made new maps for doom?!?!?!??

what

[lusty grotto]

more specifically for tangents

[undone beacon]

hmmm

[toxic pewter]

i need 3 SHIELD WALL C HARGES

[tribal wharf]

hold the fuck up im loggin into dooom

[undone beacon]

ill see what i can do

[lusty grotto]

[frosty mango]

So when the pack is up longer than barkskin and casters are still blasting you, you’re getting rocked on bear

[toxic pewter]

yeah but dont they also have 2 charges of survival instincts too

they got a lot of shit

[fringe mural]

Yeah they do and their cheat death is self heal

Massive one

[toxic pewter]

i DEMAND 3 CHARGES OF SHIELD WALL

[fringe mural]

you can also use two charges of regen for casters

[frozen portal]

4 take it or leave it

[opal ledge]

if you do the math of hits you took with SB and hits you took WITHOUT SB... that gives us a nice number.
because the uptime of shield block on the log will show weird stuff, like periods there is nothing hitting you (like a mob casting, you walking twoards another pack or something like that)

[lusty grotto]

that is misinformation

500% misinformation

[frosty mango]

Conversely for shield block you can just compare combat time to sb uptime

[opal ledge]

why?

[toxic pewter]

these days how fast can i impenitrble wall get shield wall back

[undone beacon]

looks like it was brought back to 30%, still very strong. Plus two charges of 60% dr for 6 seconds baseline. And a lot of self healing through FR, and a an 80% FR overheal shield

[opal ledge]

if you het 100% of the hits with shield block up, that's what matters.

[lusty grotto]

if you mean buff uptime you're correct

if you mean this

its flat out fucking misinformation

[frosty mango]

If you’re in combat you should have shield block up, so ideal uptime would be time in combat - shield block buff uptime for a raw stat or uptime/time in combat for a realistic percentage

That’s obviously nuanced but I think it provides the data point you want

[toxic pewter]

also i was looking at brewmaster defensives LOL apparently they got defensive that lasts 20 second and another that lasts 15 seconds that comes back in like 2 min LOL wat the fuck are these durations

[frosty mango]

Logs don’t surface that for keys bc it logs key end to end

[lofty warren]

How do you accurately figure out your sb uptime?

Number of times hit with sb up / total number times hits are the 2 I am thinking making sense

[lusty grotto]

brother

not only me, but rhino posted a picture

thats the 2nd time i post the picture

let me post it a 3rd time

ENHANCE

[lofty warren]

That 86% EXCLUDE or INCLUDE times where tou get backshot??

[lament osprey]

Nim, do you need me to post it as well?

[frosty mango]

https://tenor.com/view/spy-kids-lemme-zoom-in-on-that-zoom-watching-you-spy-gif-5212510

[lusty grotto]

sorry that was a miss-enhance

ENHANCE

[opal ledge]

that's not shield block uptime, it's back shots.
that is his point

[lofty warren]

If you get BACK SHOT then it COUNTS as HIT??

[lusty grotto]

ENHANCE

[frosty mango]

I think nims point is there’s no difference

[tribal wharf]

couldnt rdruid do barkskin onto other?

at some point

[frosty mango]

If you get hit in the back you functionally do not have shield block up

[lament osprey]

Does a back shot count as a block the answer is no

[frosty mango]

Tracking blocked hits is a much better mechanism in reality than uptime

[tribal wharf]

worse than that, no chance to parry either

[lofty warren]

If you have sb up and let every mob hit your ass it will show you as 100% hit

[frosty mango]

Because shield block uptime can be 100% but it doesn’t matter if all the mobs hit you in the back

[lusty grotto]

is this more clear?

[tribal wharf]

so you just take dmg for no reason

well, thre is a reason

[lusty grotto]

ENHANCE

[frosty mango]

Yes, and if that were the case, why does it matter if shield block was up

[tribal wharf]

but you just take dmg rather

and thats the entire problem

[lusty grotto]

ENHANCE

[frosty mango]

Bro you better call the Hubble we gonna need some serious magnification

[toxic pewter]

ENHANCE

[lusty grotto]

i got chu

[frozen portal]

https://tenor.com/view/kylo-ren-more-the-last-jedi-angry-cat-gif-10738345367427914106

[lofty warren]

I am trying to figure out what my sb uptime is (no matter whether the mob was touching my butt).

[lusty grotto]

im at max zoom, we cant go further!

[toxic pewter]

but.. what does it mean

[lofty warren]

141 is what? Number of times I got hit when I did not have sb up?

[lusty grotto]

#protection message right here

for the 5th time

[opal ledge]

141 backshots with SB up.

[lusty grotto]

right here pepega, ENHANCED

[tribal wharf]

141 times that resulted in an unmitgated, (or) and unblocked attacked

[abstract arch]

Speaking of back shots, how do y'all deal with nysara's adds

[frozen portal]

if it makes you feel better, I was also struggling with this, and I got it on the second time posted so thanks 🙂

[lusty grotto]

it doesn't, hes pepega

[undone beacon]

i feel like this is an attack

[lofty warren]

Ok i dont care about number of times I got backshot. I care whether I got hit when my buff bar had/didnt have sb up

[solid sun]

❤️

[lusty grotto]

Thats not the number you got back shot

[paper stone]

Is protection warr the best tank ever or what

[lusty grotto]

THIS IS YOUR UPTIME

[tribal wharf]

sheild block only works infront of what your character is facing

[lusty grotto]

for the 6th time

[tribal wharf]

other times you can be hit unblocked include if you get fear or sap or something

[toxic pewter]

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN

[tribal wharf]

BLINED

blind is very bad for this

[toxic pewter]

pepega just go HR bro

[opal ledge]

Nimchip, stop bullying the guy

[toxic pewter]

then see u blocked hits with hr

[opal ledge]

it's not shield block uptime, if there is backshots

[lusty grotto]

are you dense

the only uptime we care about is effective uptime

wdym "it's not shield block uptime"

this is unbelievable

[tribal wharf]

my plan for why i am hoarding and recrafting all items to haste mastery is because my goal in life is to go ITF with 1188 haste and and 1300 mastery and then i will never need to worry about hitting shield block cuz i will just block all the attacks anyhow /s

[lofty warren]

Can someone explain it to me like I am 5 yrs old?

I see 86% and 89% and 141. Im just trying to get the number of times I got hit when I had sb buff and total number of times I got hit.

This mean I do not care, at all, if I got backshot and the hit was unmitigated

[opal ledge]

HE PRESS shield block and turn his back. shield block uptime 100% blocked hits 0%

[mighty valley]

i think he is trying to figure out how many of these unblocked hits are just because he didn't have the buff up. he wants to know how many times he was hit in the face with no sb

[lofty warren]

Thank you

[tribal wharf]

with side of crit for to parry the rest

[solid sun]

I already told him that

I told him how many times he was hit without SB active

[tribal wharf]

or versa for magic heavy dungeon

[lusty grotto]

ok here we go again

left arrow = sb was active

[mighty valley]

nim he's not looking for back shots (for whatever reason)

god even i'm saying backshots now. we gotta change

[lusty grotto]

backshots pointing to square has the total of hits, just add them up

[tribal wharf]

back attack

i mean, is that better

[lusty grotto]

1200 + 141

backshots pointing to square has the total of hits, just add them up

1200 + 141

[opal ledge]

can you link the log again

[lusty grotto]

whats that pepega?

[mighty valley]

so this is as close as you're gonna get. some of those hits with no SB might ALSO have been from behind but that doesn't really matter

[lofty warren]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mpR8xCft2yLzVw76?fight=4&type=damage-taken&source=551&start=1144409&end=2693583&sourcebuffs=132404

[lusty grotto]

what does that add up to?

[tribal wharf]

if you are getting back hit by non-elite no ability trash, honestly who the hell cares?

but you shouldnt be at all

[lusty grotto]

do the math

and there's your answer

are you there yet?

[lofty warren]

1200 + 141 = 1341

[lusty grotto]

congratulations

thats the number of hits you received while SB was up

does that answer your question?

[toxic pewter]

lol

[lofty warren]

1341 = total # of times hit

What is total number of times hit regardless of sb up or not?1425?

[opal ledge]

on this log u took 84 hits without shield block
of 1425 hits.

thats 94,1% hits with shield block up.

not that bad.

[mighty valley]

1341 is the total number of times hit, sb or not

[lofty warren]

1341/1425 = 94.11% sb uptime after ignoring backshots (believe I wrote this earlier)

[opal ledge]

yes pepega, that's right

[mighty valley]

where are you getting 1425 from

[lusty grotto]

add these up, these are regardless of SB being up or not

[mighty valley]

oh, the log link was filtering sb already and confused me

so yeah, your sb uptime is ok (but could still be better), the majority of your unblocked hits are from behind

the conclusion? work on both

[lofty warren]

#protection message

Ok so true sb uptime after factoring for ass stabs is really 94ish %

[opal ledge]

total hits

[lusty grotto]

you cant disregard back shots

sorry

it doesnt work that way

thats a misplay

and having SB effectively do nothing

[warm plinth]

Hi qtpies

[mighty valley]

it's fine to want to know how much of your problem is remembering to press sb and how much is being hit in the back but yeah, both are problems lol

[lusty grotto]

kind of weird thing to focus on "if i play correctly, i would have had 94% uptime!"

[mighty valley]

it's like in league where someone dies as says "if i pressed my ult you would've died"

yeah but

you didn't

[lofty warren]

Is there a way to filter out hits at "start of the pull" or is that way too hard? Think you get rage when you touch mob and when you touch mob he swings at you so have to be a machine to have sb up at the same time mob firts swings ( I dont think mobs have a swing delay)

[plush tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/gino-d'acampo-gino-dacampo-this-morning-grandmother-wheels-gif-1270420353161197650

[tribal wharf]

sadly not that i know if

[opal ledge]

backshots are not always a missplay. sometimes you can pull better by giving your back, and if you are like with BSV up, that backshot doenst really matter.

[lusty grotto]

youre being reductive for the sake of making you look better

[mighty valley]

iconic moments in british tv history

[lusty grotto]

thats just not good log analysis

[tribal wharf]

like, you can zoom in on certian time sections of a log

and maybe you can glean more information in those pages

[plush tendon]

[lofty warren]

Well no im trying to find my true sb uptime to see if I should be going hr

[mighty valley]

you can just look at your timelines for the start of the dungeon and pick them apart i guess. but it doesn't seem that important, you should just do a dungeon, record yourself, and watch when you get hit in the back

and then try to move Not Like That

[tribal wharf]

its both a combination of positioning/facing of character issue, as well as shield block being up, issue

[lofty warren]

Getting hit in the back has nothing to do with my sb uptime % imo. One is getting hit in the back and one is how often am I getting hit while having buff.

[opal ledge]

one think you can do is logs of the highest keys and pro players, and see how it looks
this is a 20 MT... you can't come and say that guys plays bad

he took 7% backshot hits

[mighty valley]

right, but... they produce the same outcome

[lofty warren]

I get that ideally no hits would be backshots but that's a diff issue

[tribal wharf]

yes, and you have to stop and think about how are you going to prevent this

[fringe venture]

ENHANCE!

Sorry was reading and felt the needing of doing It🤣🤣

[tribal wharf]

example, after boss 1 magister terrace there is 3 that come out the door and 3 more in the door, if you simply charge and run past the first 3, u get hit in the back, so you want to use storm bolts ideally to stun them in place

[mighty valley]

the thing that's really difficult to get from logs is where you're wasting uptime. if you want to never have to think about uptime, definitely play HR

[lofty warren]

What % backshots did I take? 7% seems like a lot for someone doing top keys?

[tribal wharf]

and then you can walk in the door, charge and kikc and taunt and combine the group

[opal ledge]

21%

[lofty warren]

😆

[lofty warren]

If i took 21% backshots then shouldn't that 86% nim was linking be lower than 79%?

[opal ledge]

21% backshots with SB up

[plush tendon]

yall like talking about backshots

https://tenor.com/view/eyebrow-raised-eyebrow-lasko-gif-7259918219518352099

[mighty valley]

ive BEEN saying

[tribal wharf]

KNOCK UP

[solid sun]

Harrow wanna come over and analyze some of these backshot logs

[tribal wharf]

oh, my mechanic ability is i knock things up

[mighty valley]

reported

[opal ledge]

one thing to notice is... in higher keys packs live longer, if the mainly backshots come from start of the pull, they will naturally have less backshots.

[tribal wharf]

i mean like, this stuff is all over the game

sadly

[lusty grotto]

this does not make it ok to take back shots

regardless of the player

[fringe venture]

Im learning from ur conversation.
I am an ITF addict and actually I feeld ok with my sb uptime and my shield block rate, but I bet im under 90% prolly, I am on 29% haste with no buffs, 1080 or so. With procs and buffs and ITF I go up and feeld ok with shield block uptime, but prolly I should try to go HR at least for some dgs or situations, but tng Im rly addict to haste and ITF

[lusty grotto]

that player himself will tell you this

[opal ledge]

how many backshots you take?

[lusty grotto]

stop with the cope

[plush tendon]

[plush tendon]

[lusty grotto]

i take back hits from time to time

im not perfect

it doesnt mean its okay

its a misplay

[toxic pewter]

in skyhold those little birds before 3rd boss for some reason they backhit me.. i dont know why i always suck at blocking them lol

[lusty grotto]

youre making a weird reach linking a high rank player to cope with the idea that "taking backshots is okay"

when again, they themselves will tell you its a missplay

[opal ledge]

so... my point is: taking backshot when grouping a pull is not a mistake.
it's a necessary evil

[mighty valley]

top players are also playing with the best healers in the world who can cover for the small mistakes lol

[lusty grotto]

no

its not a necessary evil

its a missplay

[plush tendon]

yea, thats a absolute no go from me dog

[solid sun]

The goal is to eliminate backshots and to improve your play

Not just say welp that just happens

[plush tendon]

its a misplay which you can get away with sometimes

[opal ledge]

do we got logs with < 3% backshots? any key level?

[plush tendon]

but if you let em hit your back, you are essentially taking a hit with no mit

and will fall over in hard content before you even pull a second pack

[solid sun]

If I gave nimchip a log I would expect him to check me on taking backshots because that’s an area I would need to improve in

[lusty grotto]

logs existing or not, its not a necessary evil, its a missplay, thats it

[plush tendon]

back hits will happen, but they should be avoided at all costs

[opal ledge]

if you don't give your back in the start of the pull... you will group too slow

[warm plinth]

What

[plush tendon]

its ok to group slow

if it means you dont take a back hit

[lusty grotto]

you can give your back to the mobs though, if youre out of range of melee

[warm plinth]

Strafing exists my friend

[knotty mantle]

how can i look at only my unblocked hits on a log timeline?

[lusty grotto]

and strafing yea

[opal ledge]

if you can take the backhit and surive and pull faster and better, then not taking the backshit is the misplay

[solid sun]

Only silly geese accept backshots as necessary

[plush tendon]

all memeing aside, you never, EVER, want to take a unmitagated hit

you can live at some key levels

[knotty mantle]

Not the total count in the count list, like on the top part timeline

[plush tendon]

but its the worst possible thing you can do

[hardy snow]

with one warr on paladins its better to SR Bellamy?

[plush tendon]

yea

[lusty grotto]

in what scenario are you playing that you absolutely need to ignore strafing and/or leaping out away from mob's melee ranges and press W, that you think that pulling faster justifies risking a back shot?

[lofty warren]

What is the average backshot percent of ppl doing things like 20+ keys (in this case you do not care about whether they have sb, shield wall, or literally any other buff)

[plush tendon]

its a good chunk of damage

[frozen portal]

I'm going to ask a real novice question on all this, bare with me, where is the like angle limits for back shots? I'm pretty new to tanking but is it like 180* in front of you or is it like a 90* behind? If I'm straffing right with mobs directly left and I just a goofling?

[plush tendon]

very nice

[opal ledge]

that's the point, even in high keys those guys take some backshots... if he aims to 0% backshot he will never reach his goal, or will play super weird.

he should aim to lower the backhits, but not for zero
it's okay to take a few backshot grabbing pulls, depending on the pull...

or when chaining,

[hardy snow]

thanks

[lusty grotto]

180 degrees in front is where you block/parry (and dodge on other tanks)

[opal ledge]

like when someone mentioed here the second pull on MT

[lusty grotto]

brother

you can

strafe

[opal ledge]

you strafe the whole hall?

[lusty grotto]

i feel like youre purposely ignoring everything

[warm plinth]

I'm more likely to answer a pepega question at this point

[lusty grotto]

oh yeah let me run through this pack with my back turned

instead of being FULL SPEED strafing

[lofty warren]

I saw gingi back in sl strafing to avoid getting backshot i suppose its possible to not get backshot but in reality im thinking everyone gets shot

[lusty grotto]

again, that does not make it okay

[mighty valley]

top logs do have ~5% unblocked hits. they're also better than everyone else about knowing where they can be slack and it's ok and where being slack will get them killed

[lofty warren]

Sure it might not be "okay" but the question is, what % is "typical" or "good" vs "bad"

[mighty valley]

Not All Backshots Are Created Equally (famous saying)

[lofty warren]

Which backshots are okay?

[jagged pier]

i dunno 4-5% seems fine to me

thats what im getting on average without really paying attention to it or not

[lofty warren]

Imo if I am leaping to jump onto another pack bc current mobs are low and the mob im jumping away from sticks his foot in my bum I feel like that is a backshot im willing to take for faster pulls

[mighty valley]

if nothing in the pack is currently doing anything threatening and the healer isn't handling anything else, it's obv not the end of the world if you don't strafe good and catch a couple hits

but there's a lot of places where it's like... 2% more effort to strafe good and not get hit in the back

so why not

whenever yogi posts a video and he just wanders his whole ass body through the middle of one pack to get to another... that's not ideal

but at least yogi shares his hot clips

the rest aren't that brave

[lofty warren]

@jagged pier and harrow im curious, what is your "pepega adjusted sb uptime %"?

By this is mean "total number of times you got hit with SB up / total number of times hit". Whether or not it was mitigated is completely irrelevant to this equation

And petri

[mighty valley]

idk i'm washed and don't have any logs this season, but in tww s1 it was probably pretty high because i just played HR the whole time to turn off my brain

[tribal wharf]

pepega what racing games did you play as kid

im going somewhere with this

[lofty warren]

Mario kard

[tribal wharf]

any of them really, doesnt matter if cartoon like mario kart or sserious like gran turismo

the point, of a race

is to go as fast as possible, without spinning out of control

[lusty grotto]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bMzVZmQqD6tG4TaP?fight=4&type=damage-taken&source=1&start=5422527&end=5534673 this is a sense log of the gather in MT, how many back hits does he have?

its specifically zoomed in for that gather

[tribal wharf]

regardless of the risk, so you do whatever you can, to reach top speed, and keep it

is what i mean

[lusty grotto]

Spoiler: he has 0 back hits

[mighty valley]

ok i'm not gonna watch this movie now that you've spoiled it

[tribal wharf]

and the same applies to wow, you have to have sb up, and you have to have monsters infront of you

simple as

[opal ledge]

on my 15 pit i got 97.31
i got some uptime off when chaining adds to the boss i think

[lofty warren]

Sense got hit 169 and 171 of those with sb up so that means that its effectively not possible to have 100% of hits be taken when sb is up

[mighty valley]

damn, he got lucky for those two hits

[fringe mural]

well that might be the charge hits we were talking about

or wait what

171 of 169?

[lofty warren]

At start of pull if you charge in and then press sb as soon as you have the rage, won't mobs be able to get off a few hits on you?

[fringe mural]

that makes no sense

[opal ledge]

you can use shield charge instead

[lofty warren]

This is 171. Click sb and see 169. So that means 169 with sb and 171 without

[fringe mural]

or you can clap while charging, won't the rage of those two be enough?

clap has range

and clap generates rage when you hit a target no?

[lusty grotto]

you demo

as your first gcd

[lofty warren]

Shield charge range is shorts than regular charge isnt it

[opal ledge]

wait... there is something wrong with this log

[lusty grotto]

charge-> avatar ogcd -> demo -> SB ogcd -> clap/ss

[fringe mural]

Skilled demo generates rage too?

[opal ledge]

how he only got 170 hits in the whole dungeon?

am i getting something wrong?

[fringe mural]

He's silvio forell

the sword master

[lofty warren]

The logs is zoomed into like a 30 sec segment

[fringe mural]

he will just parry everything

[opal ledge]

ah so he did get 11% backshots in the dungeon... he just made the first hall really clean (gotta learn how to do that)

[lofty warren]

11% wow. Jake said he was only at 4-5%. What was senses adjusted sb uptime? I think I see it as

2891 hits with sb up / 2996 total hits = 96.4% ?

[fallow fern]

Based on my Sims, a myth shield without haste (crafted is crit/haste) is a small dps loss.. but likely the defensive value is worth it?

[lusty grotto]

yup

the most important thing about shields is ilvl because it dictates block value

[opal ledge]

yes. shield ilvl is good

[lusty grotto]

stats are not that important

[fallow fern]

Ok sounds good.. also probably other stuff I could shift more to haste once I get it

[lusty grotto]

as long as youre not sacrificing ilvl, youre good

[fringe mural]

you can take the next best and use a shield with high crit

which also gives parry that doesn't show up in the sim

[undone beacon]

true bis is whatever myth shield you get indestructible on

[fringe mural]

aaaaw

and reflux reflector has the best name too

it's the puke shield

Protecting against all sorts of projectile vomit

[lofty warren]

This may be a dumb question but what(if anything) does you shield do against non-physical hits

[mighty valley]

allows you to press Spell Reflect

that's probably not true any more, was a classic thing once upon a time

[opal ledge]

nothing really, just give u stats

[drowsy comet]

looks cooler too

[opal ledge]

how tall is kul tiran vs haranir?

[fringe mural]

bask in its glory

upgraded to 289 today

[lusty grotto]

@sharp gale ping me when you try

[drowsy comet]

Fat and obese

height seems about the same

[lofty warren]

Where haste?

[fringe mural]

there is no haste shield unless crafted

and crafted blocks less

[opal ledge]

the best dg shield is skyreach one with crit mastery?

[fringe mural]

maybe, but crit/mastery/versa are really close are they not?

also versa helps against the things that kill us, like evil stacking debuffs

[opal ledge]

i tought crit was above

[fringe mural]

crit is above but only slightly afaik

[opal ledge]

yeah i actually like some vers... but i'm taking the skyreach shield anyway, cuz it's dungeon i choose for bonus roll

[fringe mural]

the skyreach shield is still not called reflux reflector

so that's a big minus

[opal ledge]

its a plus for me lol

[fringe mural]

it's not called reflux attractor

the reflux will hit someone else you know

[mighty valley]

this is the only truth

[lofty warren]

Wowhwad says this

[fringe mural]

i mean i would've chosen any shield really, but i couldn't leave that one in the vault man

[undone beacon]

oh shit i got a big sense react

slick

[fringe mural]

and i need to honor this shield by running more keys with it

[mighty valley]

and i captured one pixel of it

[vocal owl]

Is that true?

[fringe mural]

https://tenor.com/view/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther-tchalla-bruce-gif-16558003

[lusty grotto]

dont pay attention to him, we dont use wowhead

your best stats are what you sim, after haste

[mighty valley]

i'm guessing the wowhead guide format forces you to list the stats like this

[vocal owl]

Okay do i just sim dungeon slice?

[lusty grotto]

no

[fringe mural]

patchwerk 5 min

[lusty grotto]

1 target 3 mins or 5 mins for ST
5 target 1:30 mins for AOE

all patchwerk

[plush tendon]

true BiS are the friend we made along the way

[fringe mural]

the brown bois

[lofty warren]

Icy veins is basically the same thing

[undone beacon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148897941883584512/1496878023604048002/picmix.com_13680968.gif

[fringe mural]

that is not basically the same

[undone beacon]

purples nuke

[plush tendon]

theres a huge diff: crit=vers

[fringe mural]

this says versa and crit are on par after haste

so the reflux reflector would in fact have the best stats after haste

if you disregard personal simming

[lofty warren]

Ohhh I do see that diff

[fringe mural]

and just follow the wise words of mwahi

[ionic fern]

Bis lists for gear and stats are honestly just an enforcement from guide writing pages.
Your own bis is fully dependant on what you currently have available.
If you have a ton of haste and really low mastery then, any additional haste will sim lower than mastery.

[fringe mural]

he has spoken

[drowsy comet]

our mod and savior

[ionic fern]

Not the done you deserve, but the one you're stuck with.

[fringe mural]

thanks for keeping the skyhold alive for so long guys

[lofty warren]

Thought that there is no real scenario where pwar would stop wanting to get more haste (even beyond the caps like 1320)

[fringe mural]

like for real

[plush tendon]

at least for season 1, we 100% just keep going haste

[fringe mural]

gotta go fast

[plush tendon]

late season 2/season 3 we prob will start looking to prio other stats once we have built a strong base of haste

[fringe mural]

with exception of shield we prefer leech on gear right?

if we can get it

[mighty valley]

if you're just doing weekly keys and want to pump then you can look to other stats after you feel sb comfy with itf

[plush tendon]

leech=speed>avoidance

[fringe mural]

or sockets

[mighty valley]

haste is best for living for a while though

[plush tendon]

at least for tert

[fringe mural]

yeah was talking about tert

[plush tendon]

leech and speed are both good

avoidance is very meh

[mighty valley]

avoidance is for dps

yuck

[fringe mural]

yeah we don't care about aoe dmg

except the one we deal

hrhr

[lofty warren]

How does avoidance give dps

[mighty valley]

it's for players of the dps role

[opal ledge]

leech feels nice

[lofty warren]

Ohh I had read it wrngg

Does avoidance ever help if someone tried to backshot you?

[tribal wharf]

lol no

its for aoe only attacks

so like, a fire circle

[toxic pewter]

pog got shield off first boss lol

[plush tendon]

dont sleep on speed

underrated stat

[plush tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/congrats-nice-happy-for-you-congrats-nice-happy-for-you-gif-1927193140186872022

[toxic pewter]

2 dropped

and i almsot lost both rolls due to a ret pala trying to get it

lol

[plush tendon]

weve killed that boss since it released

havnt seen one

[toxic pewter]

damn

unlucky

[plush tendon]

there was a myth shield in my first vault

that i skipped on

cause SURELY the shield off first boss would drop

[fickle linden]

Any tips for surviving first pull AA as a non-tiny man? Hold leap for bleed stacks?

[lofty warren]

No regerts

[lusty grotto]

yup

and/or bring an evoker

[lofty warren]

Dwarf racial

[plush tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/credit-card-swipe-gif-10863986

[opal ledge]

testing transmogs on PTR... i feel no shield fits prot warrior orc.. maybe the mage tower one that i dont have 🙁
why blizz make such ugly shield all the time

[plush tendon]

yea, thats basically all you can do XD

[fickle linden]

Just had a 3300 resto Druid let me fall over on multiple pulls in a 12 AA. Genuinely don’t know if it was me or them. I’m 265 with 4p.

[plush tendon]

leap away for bleed stack reset

have a evoker

[lofty warren]

Dark irons can remove the aa pull 1 debuff too i think

[plush tendon]

or dwarf it

[fickle linden]

Doing 45k overall hps seems kinda suss

[lusty grotto]

hps does not matter for us

[fickle linden]

The healer hps?

[lusty grotto]

oh shit

well yeah thats an issue

[fickle linden]

Haha

[lofty warren]

Damage reduction doesnt show up as hps i dont think

[lusty grotto]

also make sure your group targets the lashers as a priority

just slap a skull marker and an X marker on them

[fickle linden]

Ye healer was 282 doing 45k overall hps idk

Was doing like 35k dps too so I think they just weren’t healing me

Felt like a DK with no death strike

[plush tendon]

remember in DF when AA was fun

I remember

[opal ledge]

usually on algethar first pull, both me and healer go over 100k hps

[plush tendon]

no stupid bleed on plants

last area trash wasnt cancer

[wary gyro]

i like how they made a bunch of last minute changes to it that that just made it universally worse

[fickle linden]

Yea I see healers hit 100k+ on it most of the time. Bro was asleep or something

[plush tendon]

I just hate how necessary being a Dwarf feels for tanking high keys

like, really Blizz

[wary gyro]

bleeds for days

[opal ledge]

yeah, i wanna be tall

[lusty grotto]

its only for AA

its not any more necessary than other seasons

[plush tendon]

yea, im not just complaining about this season

[lusty grotto]

yes, but its not necessary if its just one dungeon

[jagged pier]

anyone know if they fixed the lvl reroll bug yet?