protection

[coarse bay]

Yup thats why it isnt a big deal for most healers

Just do some aoe healing

And cleanse 1

Never had a problem with this affix

[sharp gale]

I was wrong about it, they do stagger, backshots is no block/parry/dodge (monk dodge)

[coarse bay]

Ahhh i didnt even remember who said it if it was you lmao

I just remember seeing it somewhere

good to know

[sharp gale]

Yes it was my mistake bc they are punished too by backshots I thought it was stagger

[coarse bay]

Yur no tanks like to take it in the back

[sharp gale]

But it’s just very fast full stagger 200% since no dodge I guess

[lusty grotto]

yeah

that makes a lot more sense

dodges just means less damage is going to get staggered

[undone beacon]

Nim thanks for carrying my rat bastard dps alts

I promise to bring priest next time to do actual damage

Also I’m one Xenas away from finally bothering to finish resil 13

[lusty grotto]

oh

[undone beacon]

oh

What did you do a 13 Xenas after I left

[lusty grotto]

nah

i just read that as seat and i was like wait a min didnt we run that last night

[undone beacon]

Oh yeah we good on seat

I did turn my 13 pit into a 15 seat tho

Easy money key

[lusty grotto]

16 seat does start to slap the group hard

but yeah 15 shouldnt be hard

[undone beacon]

I wanna push up and finish out resil 15 relatively soon

Lowkey hoping to jump a bunch of my 13s up to 15s

[lusty grotto]

im falling into the "let me get these pieces first" trap again

every single season

[undone beacon]

See I was feeling that way with the Xenas rings and then I simmed it and like

It’s maybe a .5% increase at most in sims

And like that .5% isn’t going to make or break a key

[lusty grotto]

i just want WS belt and Seat gloves, and ill be good

the rest is whatever

puzzle box, ommision, etc

[undone beacon]

Hoping for a myth chest off Salhadaar tomorrow

I mean pbox is fair cuz that’s a big trinket

What are the chances you just craft belt on reset?

[lusty grotto]

i cant

[undone beacon]

Why not?

Isn’t this coming reset a craft reset

[lusty grotto]

2h, 1h

unless i get shield on vault

its a shield craft

[undone beacon]

Ahhhh gotcha

Fair enough

On priest I made staff -> embel mastery proc belt

Will have to see what I get from vault/raid before I craft

But prob a cloak cuz good wrists drop off Vor

I might make a 2H on the Warrior to help with dps

Champ -> Myth Craft is big ups

[lusty grotto]

yeah i

went 2h thinking i was gonna dps

so kind of a mistake heh

[gaunt pelican]

You guys using puzzle box on CD or just before bosses in m+? I can see the value in using it, but it's feel like slot of downtime especially in pugs where people quickly start pulling for you if you don't do it

[lusty grotto]

i just stun and use it

🤷‍♂️

its only good for vault keys and raid parsing, using it in push keys can be suicidal

since you cannot block while casting the use

[upbeat sable]

for this week affix, can berserker rage talent dispel roots works ?

[lusty grotto]

it works

but its easier just to slam Impending Victory

so entirely up to you if you want to talent it

[upbeat sable]

thanks, not sure which one to take out as i am using icyveins m+, ahh impending victory clear it as well

i will save impending for that then, normally i save impen when needed bit of heal

i was tanking pos 8 with 240ilvl, got slap pretty hard.. can't do my normal pull with brew lol

[lusty grotto]

fast footwork probably

or field dressing

[vital panther]

does anyone have any ways to deal with Entropic Leech from NXP as pwar? is it jsut defensive/pray the healer has you, or should you jsut kite it out or...? last 2 dungeons i have tried to do, i just ticked out

[lusty grotto]

you can stun and SR to help out but its a healer thing

[vital panther]

i have tried stunning it, and it seemed like it couldnt be stunned, also according to maxrolll, they are unsure it can be SR'd

so tis jsut a stacking healign absorb

[lusty grotto]

it can be SR'd

and they can certainly be stunned

[drowsy comet]

healers hate nexus too yea

[lusty grotto]

oh

i thought you were talking about commanders

[lusty grotto]

why is that a problem

you only pull at most 2 at a time

[vital panther]

well in a 14, i had a healer not able to heal it off, so i eventuially ticked out

[lusty grotto]

well ive certainly had no issue with it

commander's defender's heal absorbs yes

that one no

[vital panther]

chief? or commander?

which one are you talking about?

[lusty grotto]

im doing a key hold on

defenders

defenders not commanders, sorry most people have problems with them so i misread

its probably the first time i hear about someone having issues with the that one

and that cast can go on anyone pretty much

not just the tank

that im pretty certain about

well i suppose the tooltip does say it

[drowsy comet]

bro can multi task, writing an essay while being in a key

[lusty grotto]

well i wrote the last few lines now cause the key was done

[drowsy comet]

you still multi tasked tho

take the god damn compliment

[lusty grotto]

[cerulean tusk]

Yet, dont forget, you might have done two tasks - but you failed at both

[drowsy comet]

why tf are there items in the AH worth over 2m Gold?? are these that BoEs ppl mentioned or what

absolute goblins out there

[waxen moat]

Really enjoying the game so far
Dwarf prot warrior, switching occasionally to fury
Only progressing through delves, story and gathering professions
No dungeons, no M+ (except +2 as fury for the sweet hero/myth crests) and only raid story mode
Not the standard way but it works wonders for me as a casual 🙂
Have a good day folks, i hope you enjoy your prot warrior too in the content you engage into ❤️

[drowsy comet]

The season goes like 6 months, you have plenty of time. No need to stress about what others are doing right now, best advice I can give you is to go at your own pace. That way you have alot more fun than looking at people who play the whole day and nothing else^^

[heavy sparrow]

Feel free to health pot, & impending victory

[fringe mural]

I ran my first m0's yesterday to get to know the abilities of bosses and trash before i jump into keys, it was pretty nice

and i got one of the worst possible items out of the weekly quest which was not so nice

[errant wagon]

I want this so badly to be good but I just did a dungeon with this versus heart of wind, which they essentially are doing the same thing. and the proc rate on it is so awful

7.2% proc rate across the whole dungeon versus heart's 39%

2 different dungies

[sand condor]

Does the shield survive often?

[daring marlin]

Did you expect it to have a similar uptime despite it also having the shielding component? lol

[errant wagon]

no of course not, but it's not even in the same ballpark to make it valuable. the shield is poopoo

[errant wagon]

for this same dungeon, this was the rate of the shield surviving for me (17 skyreach)

a little more than half the time

[sand condor]

Huh

Interesting

[daring marlin]

That was a 16 Skyreach and it did more HPS than your racial at least.

lmao

Slightly less thsn impending victory

[errant wagon]

I never said it does nothing. but no one sees value in random proc shields

[paper coral]

How often are you getting gear from delves? I’ve run a bunch and it seems to be rare unless I do bountiful

[jagged pier]

The shield has to stay up for it to gice u the haste

That shield is so small

Its barely gunna proc haste

[errant wagon]

ye i have the proc rates up there. it's only 7% proc of the shield to begin with. so that's the big problem

like the shield ever even showing up is so low

[errant wagon]

i'm back to 4/4 I'm a believer again. 😛

[jagged pier]

[errant wagon]

I am dropping batlte-scarred though to keep alacrity

losing it feels too bad

[jagged pier]

Thats the dumbest trade out but okay

[errant wagon]

LOL

idk im liking this

[jagged pier]

U drop tan

If u want bsv

Yer its free damage but if u want to be tanky tan does nothing for u int hat regard

[errant wagon]

you can't drop tan

not in the same tier

sad noises

would otherwise

so i figured it's indom or bsv

[jagged pier]

Nah its ea or indom

[harsh trellis]

What key level are you working on Zane?

[jagged pier]

Bsv is tankier than both

[errant wagon]

17's and 18's

[harsh trellis]

Are you getting trucked?

[jagged pier]

Bsv is better than ea or indom so pick which 1 of those 2 u would rather loose

Espeically for those lvls

[errant wagon]

idk to me bsv triggers at very impropted times cus i'm doing a big pull, I will turn my back ever so slightly and boom, i lose it.
Obviously get good is the answer, but I'm already just pushing my limit on these keys

and I feel like I'm just losing it randomly so I'm getting 0 value

[jagged pier]

Personally if your running imbs u should be using it as a 3rd cd

If its off cd and there somthing u want to sw just let bsv handle it

Have a extra cd is really strong is really steing

[errant wagon]

yaaaaaaaaa

[jagged pier]

I would use it over ea, even is bsv procs once correctly that laready kore value than ea adds

[errant wagon]

I get the vision. need to just be careful to not lose it randomly I suppose

i kinda need alacrity right now cus i just can't get enough haste atm

so maybe when I find more haste it's a reasonable switch up

[jagged pier]

Just dont run itf

Run hr and then u dont care

And u are tankier

[errant wagon]

and then I can stack more vers/crit and do more dam!!!

at least, that is what the sims tell me

not a bad idea

[trail dome]

You can drop the point in punish and the revenge thing above it to pick stuff back up.

I copied that from honolulu's warrior.

[jagged pier]

Thats dumb but ok

[trail dome]

Why?

[errant wagon]

punish would be pretty bad to lose me thinks. Lots of prio "scary" targets that getting the DR is very big for

[sharp gale]

I don’t even know which talent you would take with punish point

I dare to say better take off ravager instead of punish

[tardy abyss]

Punish is pretty strong

[sharp gale]

If you want to do weird builds

[trail dome]

What're you thinking of out of curiosity? I'm floating about 16s atm and I feel like the only things that move my healthbar are like... battle axes, adepts of the dawn, the magic damage auto mobs in nexus point, the lashers in 1st pull aa and thats probably about it.

[unkempt hazel]

damn myth boes actuall sell for million smth

wild

[trail dome]

And they all come in multiples.

[sharp gale]

Tbf they are cheap enough I consider buying one

[trail dome]

I don't feel like there're any threatening bosses to me so I do get the logic cutting Punish.

[unkempt hazel]

okey moneybags

[errant wagon]

just been trying to experiment in the last week with a balance of tanky talents. just doing some soul searching on what feels best honestly

I find indom feels way better than it sounds, I know several here do not agree 😛 but it feels very nice having the extra stam. but I'm still just playing around

[sharp gale]

I have 500k golds

[trail dome]

I mean specifically when you say scary mobs punish helps vs.

[errant wagon]

oh like skyreach is good one

[trail dome]

What are you thinking of.

[errant wagon]

the shred dude

[unkempt hazel]

[trail dome]

The bleed?

[errant wagon]

Pit with the graveblade.. just anything with a mob that does like tank damage.

but I mean, just in genearl all bosses

2nd boss of algathar does massive bleeds to you.

[sharp gale]

The boots are 2m and chest 4m it’s not a lot of boosts away

[errant wagon]

losing that DR would be bad

[trail dome]

Play aug. 😎

[errant wagon]

there will come a key level you need all of the above lol

[trail dome]

I don't think so for crawth at least. Between aug, dwarf and wall he's kind of whatever.

[errant wagon]

i think throwing away stacking 3% DR is just not smart

and shield slam still big dam

but I like making whacky builds

[trail dome]

But it's on one mob, and you rarely are dying to one mob. 🤷‍♂️

[errant wagon]

idk man i tried an algathar 18 and crawth ate my butt

[sharp gale]

Which talents are we talking about against punish point

[errant wagon]

yea agree what you even taking instead haha

[trail dome]

I think it's bloodsurge and bloodborne.

Off the top of my head. Im not at my pc to go check.

[sharp gale]

Bloodborne is full dps and not that great one

[trail dome]

Increases fbv healing, which isnt nothing. You also need it for pathing without punish.

[sharp gale]

They are likely not switching punish vs Bloodborne it’s more best serve cold point they use, their decision is smth else

[fringe mural]

what are in your opinion the flex talents to go tanky with?

differing from the IV guide

[sharp gale]

I need to member Icy veins build

Bloodborne for bsv, tough as nails for indom, if you really want to

I need to check in calculator if you can actually put those pints there

[sand condor]

I’ve been taking points out of our apex for the cheat death and last stand, is it even worth it?

Cus i feel like i lose a boatload of dmg

[naive ravine]

And you lose 5% dr

Not worth it

[tardy abyss]

You dont need to drop apex points for BSV

Thats the worst thing you can do

[sand condor]

😔

[naive ravine]

You shouldnt drop apex at all

[sand condor]

Dear big warriors please show me the way

I have doem up to 14s i think?

[tardy abyss]

Just stick to the icy-veins build and use BSV instead of tan

[sharp gale]

Only one can be switch from middle to bottom

[tardy abyss]

You really dont need anything else

[naive ravine]

Can read frome the msg

downwards

[sand condor]

Thank you good sir

Best class discord

[sharp gale]

Just drop either tan or bb for bsv

[tardy abyss]

indom and last stand are fake tankiness most of the time

[naive ravine]

Indom is not fake tankyness last stand is

But indom is not worth the point

[tardy abyss]

indom really doesnt do that much either

[naive ravine]

but it does smth

LS just does legit nothing

[sharp gale]

You can take indom if you REALLY need to but you will not remove punish for it or apex

[errant wagon]

I'm still an advocate that indom is less about the heal and more about the 10% stamina. 🙈

[naive ravine]

Unless u maybe play +20 keys

We are not a dk and will prob never get one shotted from anything

so 10% stam does nothing rly

[sharp gale]

Yeah +20s builds are very specific, 0 context, maybe that random tankbuster on that dungeon needs it

[green pilot]

All I keep seeing online is how stable warriors health are but I’m in +12s and decently big trash pulls I’m feeling the ping ponging for sure. Any advice? Can’t tell if I’m doing something wrong

[tardy abyss]

Keep shield block up

Dont get hit in the back

[naive ravine]

Log your runs

Then others can help

[sand condor]

Backshots bad

[harsh trellis]

I started removing apex talents to pickup other talents

[green pilot]

Let me paint a hypothetical

3 packs of 3 ish mobs. Say there’s 1 w caster. Others all melee

In an ideal scenario, nothing on cd, how do you picture gathering them

[naive ravine]

Log out, log in on my dk and mass grip

[green pilot]

😆

[jagged pier]

Los on a corner

Inturpt 1 caster wrecking throw other bring onto 3rd

Dunno not your repsonibility to i tuprt everything a dps can intuprt one to help bring it in

U r a group not 1 person

[harsh trellis]

What key

[sharp gale]

If you can’t los, you would finish the gathering on the pack the least movable

It will depends on the disposition of every packs ofc, but if only melees and one caster in each, you can kick the first pack you charge / wreck throw on or dps does the rest, just ping or type if you need help

If they are close of each other, you can mass kick in the gathering (if not assigned to smth)

[ornate palm]

I can point to one scenario where it can be helpful. Nexus Point, left hallway, heal absorb.

[mild river]

Is there any addon that shows parses from m+? I take so much time looking at logs for every single dps applying to my keys. So I'd like to speed up the decision based on logs from previous runs

[sharp gale]

Archon has an addon to see raid parses ingame idk if it does m+ parses now

I used it to see key applys yes

I don’t know if ppl killed enough mythic raid bosses to see their parses tho, it needs 10 kills if I remember

[warm plinth]

Don't do that

[mild river]

I'm just interested in m+ logs. I'll download archon then. Thanks!

[warm plinth]

You can just use impending victory and not waste shield wall

[harsh trellis]

Seems like a lot of other wars are doin that also in higher keys

[warm plinth]

Not everyone doing higher keys is making smart decisions. And the high key crowd is susceptible to follow the leader like every other subset of the community. One person does it, others want to try it.

[pale narwhal]

is there any addon to notify you about spell reflectable casts on you?

[harsh trellis]

feels great though also lol

[daring marlin]

Bro I saw someone say "70% of people on archon run this so I'm gonna"

I was LAUGHING SO HARD

[ornate palm]

It’s niche and varies wildly. Some healers are on the ball and victory is enough, other times not so much. If an extra pack of defenders gets butt pulled (which seems to happen a lot) it can bail you out big time.

[harsh trellis]

Thats a big thing, healers are hit and miss in the pug world

[jagged pier]

nope

[warm plinth]

Probably won't ever change. Data aggregation sites can be so useful but I wish they didn't do talents or gear

[sand condor]

I miss the Reflect weakaura

:(

[warm plinth]

Is it a rock, fist, or arrow? If no, press Spell Reflect.

[daring marlin]

Little do people know, 99% of the time it comes down to proper cooldown management and general gameplay

[sharp gale]

thats how i did a big parse in nerubar on silken, what if the 30% are right

[warm plinth]

Most of the time that'll do you fine

[sand condor]

I spam out my beloved spell teflect as much as i can

[ornate palm]

I pull small down that side. Drives the DPS nuts but they can either suck it up and we can time it, or they can wait in que for an hour for a tank with self-healing.

[sand condor]

And when i hear that beautiful sound

I smile

[warm plinth]

Even if it doesn't reflect it'll still help mitigate

[sand condor]

Knowing it served me well

Oh yeh i love that about sr

Do i miss bfa? Sure

[tardy abyss]

Yeah and others dont do it because it doesnt really do anything but lose damage

[sand condor]

Also I HATE it when i runn Seat and my boys interrupt my reflects

[warm plinth]

100%

[harsh trellis]

Actually I gained dmg

like way more dps

[tardy abyss]

Then you were playing badly

[harsh trellis]

lol

ok

[sharp gale]

idk if it shows m+ parses, but seeing raid parses on ppl can be useful

[warm plinth]

Then you are playing weong

Wrong

[sand condor]

I do get his point

It is likely placebo

[warm plinth]

Always is

[sand condor]

Did you run with the same group

Cus with a god group i can push near 90k dps

But on a dog group watch me hit 50k overall

[warm plinth]

Like what would you even take instead of talents equating to 15% dps to make up for losing those 3 points, much less way surpass them? There literally aren't points in the tree to do that haha

[ornate palm]

I tried it. Small sample size, but at best it was a slightly less than lateral change. Nothing seemed to be gained from doing it.

[harsh trellis]

I just take 1 point into the apex, put the other 2 into bloodsurge and whirling blade

[warm plinth]

... you weren't taking whirling blade?

[ornate palm]

Survival still boils down to positioning and pulling the right stuff.

[harsh trellis]

I had whirling blade but when it got to 14s I dropped it off for indom

[tardy abyss]

bloodsurge doesnt really do much

Literally a dps loss

[warm plinth]

Well, at least I feel vindicated now.

[harsh trellis]

hey

it works for me

so I dunno

[tardy abyss]

And you take whirling blade anyway?

[warm plinth]

Playing properly and with the right talents would also work for you

If you ever want feedback, drop a log and we'd be happy to take a look

[tardy abyss]

The only way to gain dps your way is barely using SS and TC

At which point...what are you even doing

[coarse bay]

indom is nothing compared to whirling

[harsh trellis]

my TC is spammy though

I hit TC a ton

[tardy abyss]

Then you cant gain dps

[fringe mural]

i'll probably remove TaN for bsv

and keep the rest

[ornate palm]

I can’t quit whirling blade. It makes me happy.

[coarse bay]

whirling is a lot of rage gen youre just giving up

[warm plinth]

You should never drop whirling blade

[harsh trellis]

Im not

I have whirling blade

[tardy abyss]

Removing TaN for BSV is the only thing you ever need on every key level

[ornate palm]

I also can’t quit TaN. It’s my hedge against the shield block repair tax.

[harsh trellis]

I cant quit TaN

[fringe mural]

is TaN or Blood Borne more dps?

[tardy abyss]

TaN by far

[warm plinth]

You should never have not had whirling blade. That's my point.

[harsh trellis]

Love TaN

[coarse bay]

there are flexible talent points, the problem is those sites make people flex the wrong ones

[fringe mural]

then why not drop blood borne then

instead of tan

for bsv

and keep TaN

[tardy abyss]

Because you dont even take Bloodborne usually

[harsh trellis]

I dont even use Bloodborne

[fringe mural]

oh

wait

the iv guide has bloodborne in the regular m+ build

for thane

[warm plinth]

Yeah, it does. It can be moved though

[harsh trellis]

That is the recommended starter M+ build

[ornate palm]

You can drop Enduring Alcarity if you need a flex point.

[warm plinth]

Bloodborne and Enduring Alacrity are your flex points

[fringe mural]

okay

[warm plinth]

So if you want BSV or Indom, you can take them

[fringe mural]

i'd rather drop bloodborne tbh

2% haste are 2% haste

[warm plinth]

Yeah I feel the same way

[fringe mural]

and TaN is an aggro talent which is way better

than bloodborne

[tardy abyss]

The regular M+ build has Bloodborne instead of Bloodsurge but the latter is way better for living

[ornate palm]

The haste gain is negligible if you’re running HR, which you should be at this point anyways.

[fringe mural]

well i'm only 100 haste away from the breakpoint i think

that's not too ba

[tardy abyss]

Thane doesnt struggle with aggro anyway

[fringe mural]

d

[fringe mural]

yeah i noticed

[warm plinth]

Bloodsurge is fine too.

[fringe mural]

how often do you get rage from bloodsurge?

does it scale with mobs?

probably

[warm plinth]

It scales with how many mobs have Rend on them, yes. Last I knew it was just a flat 7% chance to generate the 5 rage

[daring marlin]

People really are underestimating how powerful 5% DR is still?

crazy

[harsh trellis]

it generates a lot of rage though

[fringe mural]

that's quite a lot

[harsh trellis]

like if you want IP spam with a rage bar pull a ton

[ornate palm]

That’s good. But it feels like it’s going to be next to impossible to reliably hit that break point this early in the expansion.

[warm plinth]

It's a decent bit. It generates around the same amount as Whirling Blade over the course of a dungeon

~1800 or so

[magic sonnet]

Question, ive seen some warriors run around with a 1/4 phalanx build and the rest in the prot tree, when is this build taken. Only high level M+ keys for survivability?

[warm plinth]

You should never be spamming Ignore Pain though.

[harsh trellis]

arent you supposed to hit it at 70 rage regardless?

[fringe mural]

yeah for sure

[harsh trellis]

like 70 rage IP?

[warm plinth]

Never, and there are other talents you can drop for survivability like BSV.

Yes, if you are 70+ rage, you press IP.

[fringe mural]

but if you get a lot of rage gain procs you will press it a lot

[harsh trellis]

yep bloodsurge spams that rage bar up there that often

[fringe mural]

but yeah not to confuse it with spamming

[daring marlin]

You should always take 4/4 apex.

[warm plinth]

You always press IP a lot. I just don't like the word spamming when a very significant portion of the new prot war playerbase think IP is our main source of mitigation.

[harsh trellis]

try it out.. in some keys it feels better

[warm plinth]

Do not try it out.

Don't take advice from that guy.

[harsh trellis]

I disagree with always taking max apex

[fringe mural]

well it basically doubles the effectiveness of shield block

[warm plinth]

No offense, I don't care what you do. But don't tell other people to do it.

[fringe mural]

IP that is

but having sb up is way more important

ip is worth shit when sb is not up

but when it is, it's strong

[warm plinth]

It doesn't double the effectiveness of Shield Block. IP is consumed after damage reduction. Shield Block makes IP stronger, not the other way around.

[maiden ravine]

There might be a bug going on with how raider.io is saving builds. I saw Jak checking builds and they were mistakenly showing 1/4 apex but the builds were missing 3 points

[fringe mural]

if shield block only let's 20% of the dmg go through

and ip reduces that value to 10%

shield block is twice as powerful

[warm plinth]

I do not understand how you got to that conclusion

[sand condor]

🤨

[mild river]

Question: ravager does 3% of my overall damage in keys. This a talent mostly for rage generation?

[sharp gale]

yes kinda

[warm plinth]

It does 3% on the meter, sure. But it also increases the damage of TC/TB and Revenge while active.

(this applies to Whirling Blade too, despite it being absent from the tooltip for Whirling Blade)

[fringe mural]

you notice a significant increase in dps when the blade whirls

and it's not the blade

[mild river]

Oh I didn't know that. I'm such a noob lol

[warm plinth]

Nah, it doesn't even say it in the WB tooltip

and people even thought early on that it didn't work for WB

[fringe mural]

you can argue in both direction, but the conclusion is, ip and sb together are very powerful

and ip needs other dmg reductions to be active to really shine

sb is already strong on its own

ip is not

especially because ip has a dmg treshold

and sb has not

[warm plinth]

That's why SB makes IP stronger (relatively, not actually) but not the other way around.

[fringe mural]

fine

let's go with that

but we agree on ip being kinda pointless against physical dmg if sb is not up

[warm plinth]

IP is incredibly weak without SB, yes.

That's why people who prioritize it over SB feel squishy

[harsh trellis]

I mean youre doin the same thing though right telling other people to do when honestly they could just try it to see how it feels?

[barren socket]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1047061799649935391.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

It feels like being blue

[fringe mural]

lol

[daring marlin]

How can you disagree with 5% DR?

[warm plinth]

This server isn't here to support people's feelycraft. I'm not sharing my opinions; I'm sharing the facts. We might offer opinions on gearing or what you should take from your vault, but when it comes to talent choices, that is established, proven information. I didn't make it up out of thin air like you are.

[fringe mural]

i just dropped bloodborne for bloodsurge, but i'm not really feeling like taking bsv

[warm plinth]

If you think the talent build is wrong and you come here with something a hell of a lot more concrete than "It feels better", we will absolutely discuss it.

[daring marlin]

5% DR alone is more powerful than literally any other talent and it's not even close

[ornate palm]

You’re barking up the wrong tree coming here to suggest people try something with individual expression. This is for group think vanilla advice only.

[harsh trellis]

I mean I didnt make it up either. Im just looking at builds on raider io of people pushing higher keys and its starting to show that people are doin that some prot wars are doin the same thing with pretty solid results.

[fringe mural]

when you find 3 talent points that have 5% dr combined or more then go

[warm plinth]

If that's how you actually feel about this channel, then I'm not sure why you're here.

[sand condor]

So far the best prot wars run 4x apex no?

[harsh trellis]

Im ok with differing opinions, I like conversation

[digital frigate]

Hello. I am just making sure. Right now my haste rating is 900. I do not swap to Into the Fray until I have 1180, correct?

[fringe mural]

good players don't necessarily make good theorycraft decisions

[sand condor]

Pretty sure i chrcked the top 5 and its all max apex

[harsh trellis]

About to start a key though so I need to stop chattin here for a lil bit

[ornate palm]

It’s not a bad thing. It’s the best place for by the book cold truth.

[fringe mural]

maybe an 1/4 apex guy gets through the key because he took bsv, not because he dropped apex

[warm plinth]

That's worse, because you didn't even come up with this different idea on your own and you have ZERO reason to believe that they made a better choice than what the intelligent people who came up with the guide build came up with other than the fact they're doing higher keys than you.

[fringe mural]

so if he took bsv and dropped a talent that was worse than apex, he would've been even better

[warm plinth]

High key players do weird things all the time that MAYBE they sometimes have to, but this is not one of those times.

[digital frigate]

Hello. I am just making sure. Right now my haste rating is 900. I do not swap to Into the Fray until I have 1180, correct?

[maiden ravine]

Again, I'm pretty sure there's a bug with how Rio is saving builds from keys

[warm plinth]

Yeah, that's correct

[digital frigate]

Thank you.

[warm plinth]

You'll have gaps in your SB uptime if you use ItF now

[digital frigate]

I was noticing that. And I joined the discord. I had gaps.

Thank you so much.

[maiden ravine]

I'd triple check that those 1/4 apex builds have all points spent

[daring marlin]

You're right. I checked top 3 and all of then run 4/4 Apex. Interesting!!!!!

[warm plinth]

Any time

[daring marlin]

It's almost like 5% DR is good or something.

[sand condor]

Strange, what does apex mean

[warm plinth]

It's the new 4 point talent node

Phalanx

[daring marlin]

He's joking I think

[warm plinth]

They're called apex talents

I'm slowly realizing that might be the case

[harsh trellis]

I mean other than timing keys and trying it out and it feels really nice.... No, you are correct. I have ZERO reason to believe it was a better choice. I admit defeat there.

[sand condor]

I was actually hoping someone would send me the definition

But yes

I was fully meming

[warm plinth]

Like I said, I have no problem with you playing the game how you want. I don't pay your sub. But I will talk over you if you try to tell other people to do it in here, because I know you're objectively wrong.

[velvet knot]

Fellas i pugged my way to 2500 Yippie

[sand condor]

Pog pug

[warm plinth]

I'm genuinely not trying to disrespect you. And I meant my offer of giving feedback on logs.

[warm plinth]

way to go!

[velvet knot]

was p smooth aside from the paladin falling over every fight

but the dk scraped him off the floor so it was all g

[sand condor]

Paladins do fo that

[velvet knot]

You'd think that with all their toolkit they'd live through more stuff

But its always the paladins who die

[warm plinth]

I know right

Just ask Guilford

👀

[daring marlin]

When you have a class that populated you'll have plenty of potatoes

[warm plinth]

I watched him die in 4k (it was actually 720p; Pash doesn't have Nitro)

[daring marlin]

You might even die to a cone in MC kiting an add on that one boss.

[warm plinth]

[daring marlin]

Still #1 idgaf

[warm plinth]

might

[daring marlin]

mage was a dedicated lust

[warm plinth]

Bat lust is best lust

:p

[daring marlin]

What's funny about the three top io warriors is they have some slight variations in their builds like last stand or shield spec but they always take 4/4 apex

HMMMM, INTERESTING

[warm plinth]

Shield spec still makes my fuckin eye twitch ngl

[drowsy comet]

the #1 pwarr got blessed by the mythic raids, bis weapon and shield

[warm plinth]

(not taking it, that is)

[drowsy comet]

wdym? we are a shield spec, we use 2 shields to deal damage and block it

[tribal wharf]

shaman tank when

[daring marlin]

What a silly talent man

[tribal wharf]

or new class spec that can use shield (effectively)

[warm plinth]

Blizz please turn us into this guy at least for an April Fools joke or something

[drowsy comet]

exactly

[tribal wharf]

i would want the beta wow way

buckler then SHIELD

tiny, and large shield

never did get to put a buckler on my rogue

[warm plinth]

I'm very sorry you're going through that yogi

[tribal wharf]

this is a fuckin mans shield

[fringe mural]

let's just remove the talent point from shield spec

[warm plinth]

I do wish we had more tower shields in WoW

[fringe mural]

it's worthless

[tribal wharf]

this is the size of shield

[fringe mural]

😄

[tribal wharf]

that i would trust to protect me

[daring marlin]

I need more coffee

[fringe mural]

obvious troll is obvious i know

[drowsy comet]

https://giphy.com/gifs/rah-scaryfaceinc-skeleton-8OgZyXwljMPo1Cl4dg

[fringe mural]

that's one of the single strongest talents we have

[daring marlin]

It shouldn't even be a choice, frankly.

Them making it a talent is the weirdest thing.

[fringe mural]

is the additional block chance translated into critical block during sb?

or did that change at some point

[warm plinth]

No, it's not. The only source of crit block is mastery

[fringe mural]

so they did change it

sad

[warm plinth]

The block chance part of the talent IS pretty useless (though I guess it helps newbies not get merced quite as often lol)

It never went to crit block; the talent has always been strong because of the block value

[fringe mural]

it did when def rating was a thing i think

[warm plinth]

Crit blocking and defense rating didn't exist at the same time

Are you thinking of the trying not to be crit thing that used to be a thing maybe?

[fringe mural]

hm, why do i remember that being a thing then, let me check

[fringe mural]

nah that was 5.6% anti crit chance

[tribal wharf]

shield block, hit your shield block!

[fringe mural]

5% regular and 0.2% for every level the enemy was above you

[frosty mango]

Crit block was cata

[fringe mural]

and since bosses were 3 lvl above you

[frosty mango]

Defense was removed in Cata

[warm plinth]

Masteries were added in MoP I thought

[fringe mural]

you had to have 5.6

that was bc and wotlk i think

[tribal wharf]

cataclysm was stupid in alot of ways

like shadowlands

[daring marlin]

Cata was goated

one of thr best intro tiers ever

[frosty mango]

Wrath?

[tribal wharf]

i was one of the players that was upset that they changed the entire world

[frosty mango]

I think crit block was late wrath and masteries came with cata yea?

[fringe mural]

cata made me start playing again

because i loved the cinematic

😄

[tribal wharf]

cata was the first time i quit

[warm plinth]

Oh you're right, masteries were cata

Dang I've been an expansion off for an embarrassingly long time

[frosty mango]

Wasn’t there a talent in wrath tho

That basically was the war mastery

That talent basically became the mastery

[warm plinth]

Yeah

But it was just a fixed chance to critically block

I don't remember hearing about any sort of overlapping effect causing that to increase, but I also didn't play prot warrior back then so I could be wrong

[fringe mural]

there i found it

that was cataclysm

and you could talent that down to 30 sec

[warm plinth]

Wait, I thought we were talking about shield spec doing that

I'm very lost now

[fringe mural]

no, i was just talking about the general mechanic

not a single talent

[velvet knot]

Goodness

[warm plinth]

I mean I didn't know about that mechanic at all anyway but I thought you originally were referring to shield spec doing it XD

[drowsy comet]

idk if i should be ashamed asking this, but whats the best way to catch up on champion crests

[fringe mural]

collect hero crests

[velvet knot]

Do your delves, do some keys,

[fringe mural]

when you are at hero cap

you will get champ instead

[velvet knot]

^

honestly yeah

not wrong

[warm plinth]

You're a hero...crest

[drowsy comet]

ohhh that works? sheesh

[warm plinth]

Gottem

[fringe mural]

yeah i got veteran's yesterday instead of hero

because i am at hero and champ cap

[drowsy comet]

I see

[fringe mural]

if you are at aventurer cap

you'll get voidlight marl

so good

[velvet knot]

I'm capped on all crests pls send help

I wish they'd give me voidlight marl

[drowsy comet]

i wonder if we gonan have turbo boost again at the end of this season like TWW, or not

[fringe mural]

the cata shield block was cursed

[warm plinth]

I think it was already semi-hinted at

[velvet knot]

Cata was a time

[fringe mural]

but i think you were able to achieve almost 100% block chance without sb up

[velvet knot]

Are you guys excited to tank Zul aman and zul gurub on the m+ rotation next season?

[fringe mural]

wait what?

for real?

like the old ones?

[velvet knot]

not confirmed

just my hunch

yes

the cata versions

[fringe mural]

ah those

[velvet knot]

I always get the predictions of keys right

[fringe mural]

i mean the bridge has to go somewhere right

and sylvanas hinting at something about the shadowlands

might be something about hexlord malacrass

[velvet knot]

Bridge goes to Atul'utek

[velvet knot]

Unlikely, but possible.

[fringe mural]

where a dark presence forces you out

[maiden ravine]

Zul Aman is possible as a legacy, but I'm not expecting ZG

We'll also have Den of Nalorakk next season plus whatever new dungeon is added

[velvet knot]

Atul'utek is home to the Amani snake loa Ula-tek.

So that'll be the raid in 12.1

[fringe mural]

yeah i guess so too

[velvet knot]

For dungeons I predict Zul'aman and Zul'Gurub on the M+ rotations (Cata versions)

[maiden ravine]

ZG is also a bit big to rework into a 4 boss m+

[fringe mural]

and in 12.2 we check where xal'atath went down below

[velvet knot]

wym

[velvet knot]

Its already a dungeon tbh

[maiden ravine]

It's a huge dungeon though

7 bosses or so

[velvet knot]

Yeah they'll just trim it down

Not the first time

[maiden ravine]

They haven't reworked anything that big yet

[velvet knot]

Do you really think they'll miss on the chance to have ALL the troll dungeons on rotation during the troll patch?

Maybe Gundrak?

[daring marlin]

Just make it the first M+ dungeon with a 60min timer

[velvet knot]

lmfao

[daring marlin]

Everybody would love that

[velvet knot]

Bros cooking

https://giphy.com/gifs/marmot-holup-holuplethimcook-kCpg2FYkENfnuvXSsS

[fringe mural]

and if you miss a kick in gundrak

everyone dies

[velvet knot]

Yup

[fringe mural]

in m+

[velvet knot]

From the rhinos?

[fringe mural]

ya

[daring marlin]

Gundrak would be interesting

[velvet knot]

is it bad i remember that

jfc

[fringe mural]

if he transforms you're done

10+

[daring marlin]

the trash before last boss would fuck

[velvet knot]

Honestly gundrak has some interesting mechanics

would vibe with gundrak M+

[fringe mural]

the bleeding debuff from the final boss

[maiden ravine]

Gundrak would be saved for TLT

[velvet knot]

I mean there's also this hellhole.

[fringe mural]

imagine that on m+

[daring marlin]

Slaying trolls? I'm in.

[velvet knot]

I genuinely hope they just full commit to the bit of doing all troll dungeons for 12.1 it'll be really funny

[fringe mural]

or

[toxic pewter]

next patch is troll patch

[fringe mural]

De other side

[maiden ravine]

Tww s2 didn't have only goblins

[tribal wharf]

You as pwar without shield block vs with shield block.

[velvet knot]

OMG UR SO RIGHT

[velvet knot]

bros cooking

[fringe mural]

de other side fits with sylvanas

investigating

[daring marlin]

They should add DoS and cut the timer arbitrarily like they did with AA.

[harsh trellis]

Is that you yogi?

[fringe mural]

probably running around with bwonsamdi

[velvet knot]

Holy shit this meme will feed familes

[tribal wharf]

dos is i quit lol

[daring marlin]

while simultaneously buffing all the trash

[toxic pewter]

damn DoS is the one SL dungeon I didnt get portal for... need that portal

[tribal wharf]

the goofy ass music is a personal choice

[fringe mural]

don't be lazy now man

[daring marlin]

how did you not

LOSER

[toxic pewter]

lol

[daring marlin]

GAWL

[tribal wharf]

because inspector gadget is a bumbling bafoon dickhead

aka me

[toxic pewter]

I was much more casual then I guess

I didnt know/care about stuff

[warm plinth]

I knew there was going to be a doom clip in that video

[toxic pewter]

XD

[drowsy comet]

DoS is a cool dungeon if your mates know how it works

[daring marlin]

dos is a dog dungeon

Hakkar is stupid

dealer is stupid

Last boss is stupid

It's way too long

[tribal wharf]

only way im running de other side again is if they make the timer 1 hour

[velvet knot]

Den of Nalorakk
Murder Row
Blinding Vale
Voidscar Arena

[12.1 dungeon] Temple of Atul'utek or w/e
Zul'Aman
Zul'Gurub
De Other Side
Gundrak

[toxic pewter]

lol I can actually see them doing this

[velvet knot]

My predictions for 12.1

[toxic pewter]

bring back Zul'Farak

[daring marlin]

brother increasing the timer won't help with dps checks on hakkar and dealer

[velvet knot]

https://giphy.com/gifs/no-bugs-bunny-fXnRObM8Q0RkOmR5nf

[toxic pewter]

whoa u dont like zf

wat in da world

[tribal wharf]

im not doing de otherside or plague fall as a keystone ever again

[velvet knot]

I have bad memories of it from 2006

[maiden ravine]

There'll only be 3 legacy dungeons next season because 12.1 has a new dungeon

[tribal wharf]

i refuse

[daring marlin]

God forbid you have a single potato dps

[jagged pier]

bring back orginial sunken temple

[daring marlin]

I doubt they bring back DoS as it was

Gl if you have an aug

They're not killing totem

[toxic pewter]

lol

[maiden ravine]

Also they can only really rework one dungeon a season since something like Pit of Saron is like making a new dungeon

[warm plinth]

Agreed. I only got to do the original version a couple times before it got changed. What a fuckin adventure.

[jagged pier]

my favourite dungeon in wow

the rework is nasty lets remove 99% of it

[velvet knot]

tbh they barely reworked pit

[warm plinth]

That and Blackrock Depths were always a good time ("good" is sometimes very optimistic) back in the day

[velvet knot]

im surprised at how little they changed in pit

[tribal wharf]

there is 1 way that they ruined pit

[daring marlin]

Garfrost ia basically 1:1

[warm plinth]

I didn't get to do Stratholme in vanilla unfortunately, so my only early experiences with it was stealth farming righteous orbs at 70

[velvet knot]

^

[daring marlin]

Other two bosses are slightly different

[velvet knot]

yeah and the trash is mostly the same too

im glad they kept the old crappy models

[warm plinth]

It was still challenging enough that I couldn't solo it though and one of the mob types in there would put a fuckin 10 min disease on you that prevented stealth.

[velvet knot]

does anyone know why thye chose pit of saron?

its just a leftfield pick

[daring marlin]

shame we'll never get the best dungeon of the three

[warm plinth]

My guess is that it's because it was one of the "newer" Wrath dungeons, and the one people would hate the least

[daring marlin]

HALLS OF REFLECTION!

[velvet knot]

Seat makes sense. Skyreach kinda makes sense. Al'gethar was popular

usually you can predict atleast 2 dungeons a patch just by the vibes

For example motherlode during the undermine patch

[toxic pewter]

Calling it now: they gonna turn Zul'Gurub into 2 dungeons

[daring marlin]

I hated Seat in Legion. It's ok to me now.

[drowsy atlas]

Bring some sod dgns over

[harsh trellis]

Seat is a fun key

[maiden ravine]

They nerfed the hell out of Motherlode

[warm plinth]

I only ever did it a single time on m0 in Legion; it was too close to the end of the season for me to care about trying it in keys

[drowsy atlas]

Revamed sm and karazan crypts

[velvet knot]

Tazavesh during 11.2 was fun.

[solid sun]

The best dungeon is the dungeon you do with your friends

[warm plinth]

And I wasn't much of a key pusher then. Highest dungeon I did back then was like a 16 and that was when people were doing 30s or some shit as their highest keys

[drowsy atlas]

your right

Bring back arcway

[tribal wharf]

Do you hear the clatter of bone and steel coming up the tunnel behind you? That is the sound of your impending demise.

this is how they fucked up pit

by not including this

[toxic pewter]

dang they did remove that didnt they lol

[tribal wharf]

some of the best voice acting period in all of warcraft

[maiden ravine]

Zul'aman, Sethraliss plus one more is my guess for legacy

[velvet knot]

bro is the least DK sounding DK of all time

[velvet knot]

pls no god no not sehtraliss

it was only just on rotation

[tribal wharf]

that dungeon was literal light years ahead of its time

[solid sun]

Bring back stockades

[velvet knot]

I genuinely despise it

[tribal wharf]

what are you doing, the dangerous one is over there (chase mechanic) hold still while i blow them all up! (group dmg)

[velvet knot]

do you guys remember tww season 1

[toxic pewter]

i memba

[daring marlin]

no

[velvet knot]

grim batrol, wake, and siege all together

it was awful

[toxic pewter]

I liked it

[velvet knot]

mists was kinda free

[tribal wharf]

temple of seth i dont totally hate because i've ran it million billion times in bfa

with voice and not

[velvet knot]

same tbh

[tribal wharf]

so i know that place too damn well

[warm plinth]

I missed 99% of the first season; I did like...city of threads once and one of the others and that was about it

[toxic pewter]

worst part of tww season 1 was tww dungeons lol

[velvet knot]

Do you guys see everbloom coming back again next season?

To pair with blinding vale

For the ⭐ Vibes

[maiden ravine]

Sethraliss has literally not been a legacy yet

[velvet knot]

i swear it has

[maiden ravine]

And the eye mechanic was changed in TWW

[velvet knot]

i swear sethraliss has been on rotation

surely?

did i run it so many times in bfa i've worked myself into a shoot

[solid sun]

Most of the dungeons people think are bad are only bad because they lack the resolve to finish what they started

[velvet knot]

pretty much all of the BFA dungeons they have brought in have been bangers though

[harsh trellis]

this season is fun at least

[velvet knot]

I genuinely think BFA has the best dungeon pool of any xpac

[harsh trellis]

AA got a stealth 1 min buff

WS could use a little extra time

[velvet knot]

Apart from siege. Fuck siege.

fuck it. Bring back underrot.

[harsh trellis]

lol

[velvet knot]

I wanna do underrot again

[harsh trellis]

bring back SBG

[daring marlin]

No

anyway

We had Undersuck already

[velvet knot]

bring back halls of infusion

[harsh trellis]

LOL SBG was such a fast key

similar to how skyreach is a fast key

[daring marlin]

Talking about Troll dungeons and not mentioning the goat

KR

[velvet knot]

KR is cool but it doesn't fit the vibes

I still think about you

[daring marlin]

TROLL DUNGEON

[velvet knot]

How to be top dps as a tank

[solid sun]

The best troll dungeon is probably the sand one

[velvet knot]

i love gundrak tbh

[harsh trellis]

its just boring AF

and so long

[solid sun]

If they brought back the sand one and made you complete the full dungeon trash for count

That’d be heaven

[warm plinth]

Zul'Farrak?

[solid sun]

Yeah

[warm plinth]

I like ZF

[solid sun]

The hydra gong

[toxic pewter]

yeah ZF one of my fave's

[solid sun]

And the temple

[warm plinth]

They'd probably have to cut out the rescuing the people at the top of the pyramid thing though

[toxic pewter]

I hope not that part is fun

[solid sun]

Just streamline it y’know

[daring marlin]

Only cool part of Sethraliss was when I discovered you could reflect the cone on first boss

[warm plinth]

Would you have the hydra boss 🤔

[daring marlin]

otherwise, that key is sleeper

BORING

[tribal wharf]

ZF is they would have to treat it like a mega dungeon, and that would mean having to give it a rework, and for that, there will have to be a good lore reason that fits the current story

they would have to slice it in half some how

[warm plinth]

It was fun doing the full room of Merektha's area at once 🙂

And the orb room was fun to pad in outside of necrotic week

[daring marlin]

Necrotic

[tribal wharf]

i still have nighmares about boss 2 and 3 of temple

[solid sun]

Who is Meredith’s

[tribal wharf]

extremely terrifying both of them

[velvet knot]

ZF doesn't have a very m+ friendly layout unless they cut off the ghaz'rilla side

[tribal wharf]

i still can remember SO many groups going boom on the elmental boss

like, castestrophically bad

[velvet knot]

This looks horrible to do as a key

[solid sun]

Nah

Looks dope

[velvet knot]

they'd have to wall off the whole left side

[solid sun]

No they wouldn’t

[warm plinth]

Eh, it's a mountable dungeon

[tribal wharf]

you'd have to figure out a way to make it be like, one run is takes you to the gong boss and the other is takes you to the "stairs" boss

it would make for some very interesting MDI clip

i know that, with the 10 million monsters on the staires

[warm plinth]

They'd have to get rid of 2 or 3 bosses though

[solid sun]

Not only is it mountable but you can just add something that zooms you around

[warm plinth]

No one wants a fucking 7 boss dungeon

[maiden ravine]

Hell I don't even care for 5 boss dungeons

[warm plinth]

Exactly

[tribal wharf]

one run of it 4 bosses, thats the gong boss run

then 3 for the stairs

[solid sun]

That’s because you’re weak

7 is a lucky number

[tribal wharf]

since stiars will be a gaint cluster fuck

[warm plinth]

I never said I wasn't weak, to be clear

[maiden ravine]

Dude, I'd love 20 minute dungeons to be the standard

[daring marlin]

5 boss dungeons are ass

[solid sun]

You play both 8 ball and 9 ball

I don’t see you requesting 4 ball

[tribal wharf]

4 boss keys suck in my opinion

[solid sun]

Let’s have a 7 boss dungeon

[winter aspen]

Nelthations lair peak

[tribal wharf]

i'll do a 3 boss key any day of week over 4 boss

[winter aspen]

AD peak

[maiden ravine]

7 boss, 0 trash

[daring marlin]

Elaborate

[warm plinth]

I found out there's a hack squat machine at the gym and I put 60 pounds on it and thought I was dying. I didn't realize til after the first set of 10 that there was a sign that said "105 pounds resistance without weight" on it. Not that 165 is great either but at least I knew I wasn't struggling to lift 60 pounds

[winter aspen]

Athal Dazar

S tier dungeon

[tribal wharf]

OR, okay just hear me out right, dont really change a whole lot about ZF as it is now

[daring marlin]

Two of the bosses kill themselves

[velvet knot]

6 bosses is too much. I dont wanna cut out bloodlord because he's iconic and i love the boulder gauntlet.

[daring marlin]

How is that a peak dungeon?

[warm plinth]

(the 60 pounds was originally just supposed to be a test since I hadn't used the machine before)

[tribal wharf]

and just send it wholesale like they did with pit of saron

[daring marlin]

AD is the worst BFA dungeon by far

[tribal wharf]

couple changes to make it work as a key

[winter aspen]

Hell no wtf

[velvet knot]

take that back

[tribal wharf]

make the timer 1 hour

[winter aspen]

Shrine ??

[daring marlin]

I will not

[winter aspen]

AD is best

Easiest to time

Freehold S tier

[daring marlin]

Shrine is superior to AD, even with having to drown yourself on one boss.

[warm plinth]

Hmmm

[solid sun]

Something being easy doesn’t make it peak

It just means it’s easy

[winter aspen]

Its fun

[warm plinth]

AD wasn't even easy in higher keys

[tribal wharf]

i know what to do

[warm plinth]

All the bosses were hard in higher keys

[daring marlin]

Freehold was also lame. Oh I have to LoS the shotgun or take a warrior for safeguard on Eudora

[warm plinth]

and had shit trash mobs

[daring marlin]

100%

[tribal wharf]

i have a much better idea

[winter aspen]

Kings Rest was shit

[velvet knot]

make malacrass the last boss and involve him as part of the lore of 12.1 in the troll raid.

[maiden ravine]

I still loathe to this day pre s4 BfA AD.

[warm plinth]

Don't forget having to use the blackheart toy to dodge powder shot on the first boss

[solid sun]

And tbh

[daring marlin]

SO STUPID

[solid sun]

I think they can 100% have dungeons with more than five bosses

I think they just have to cut out a bunch of trash

[warm plinth]

Freehold aged very well though, and it's a very enjoyable theme/ambiance

[maiden ravine]

AD with s1 tuning and ghunnies was nightmare fuel

[solid sun]

Would love to see a 6 or 7 boss dungeon with very little trash as an experiment in one of the cycles

[tribal wharf]

the team i was running with had stuns out the ass

[warm plinth]

A boss rush dungeon could be interesting

[tribal wharf]

so those things were never truly a threat

[daring marlin]

One thing I like about new AA is Crawth and Vex aren't so atrocious.

[solid sun]

What was that one remake they did ghash

In badlands

[tribal wharf]

yep

the place i never run again lo

[solid sun]

Was a classic dungeon originally

[warm plinth]

Uldaman?

[solid sun]

Yes uldaman

[velvet knot]

this boss is zul'jins son btw. And the father of zul'jan and zul'jarra

[tribal wharf]

i just remember i ran it once had a bad time, never ever going back as tank for any reason

[velvet knot]

so how could they not include zul aman as a dungeon

[solid sun]

I feel like everyone thought that dungeon was too long

[winter aspen]

Tol Dagor was also peak

[warm plinth]

I think people just hate having 5 bosses in a dungeon

[solid sun]

But if they had kept the bosses and removed some trash it may have been fine. You don’t have to just cap how many bosses a dungeon has to fit a time constraint

[warm plinth]

Because bosses eat a lot of time

Yeah, perhaps

[winter aspen]

Or make some easy

Like that AA tree boss

[velvet knot]

theres a 95% chance zul aman is on rotation.

[daring marlin]

Better bring a DH for the last boss

[warm plinth]

Idk, I don't like bosses having a large variance in difficulty within a dungeon personally. If the group is going to fail the key, I would rather at least have an idea of how the dungeon's going to go on the first boss.

[velvet knot]

i love some bosses being harder than others

it allows you to plan lust around them

[warm plinth]

It's frustrating when a dungeon has like 3 easy bosses and then a hard final boss

Wasting all that time just to die at the end

[velvet knot]

is there a hard endboss this season?

[tribal wharf]

i remember lots of fights about the bullet debuff

[daring marlin]

Just have the whole place be a shitshow

like sanguine depths

[warm plinth]

I don't know, I'm not subbed

[solid sun]

But if you had fun with your friends even a failed key isn’t a waste of time

[warm plinth]

Sanguine Depths had flaws, but I adore that dungeon

[velvet knot]

https://giphy.com/gifs/cat-cats-nepalicats-g6Oox9mVXakOCWSkf9

[tribal wharf]

TD was only ever a problem because of final boss

and how stupid your group was or not

[warm plinth]

3rd boss was harder than final imo

[velvet knot]

Tol Dagor?

[warm plinth]

But I also played havoc that expansion, so

[tribal wharf]

cuz if they couldnt do the debuff right it was most likely GG without huge dps

[daring marlin]

I like it too but damn was it a nightmare, especially compared to everything else lol

[warm plinth]

Last boss was kind of a snoozefest for havoc

[tribal wharf]

3rd boss was way easier, it was literal everyone has to do the bombs

or you die

[winter aspen]

TD first boss was also killer for idiots

[warm plinth]

The only fun you had was saving your team from the mechanics

[winter aspen]

Sorted the trash real quick

[solid sun]

Tol Dagor was a great dungeon but the mage was definitely harder than the prison warden and bosses were not the only issue. Pulling through walls would like to have a word

[tribal wharf]

theres no other way around 3rd boss due to it is such a small area

[velvet knot]

put brackenhide back on rotation

[tribal wharf]

goes to shit fast if you just leave em

[warm plinth]

Gimmicks are rarely enjoyable as well, especially when a wipe causes them to no longer be an option

[velvet knot]

do you guys remember back in s1 of dfwhen we were all worried about brackenhide coming into rotation in s2 and then we did it and it was the freest dungeon ever

[tribal wharf]

well i quit before that but

[daring marlin]

In DF the easiest dungeons in M0 were the hardest in M+ imo

[velvet knot]

s2 of dragonflight is when my tweet about my brackenhide key being held hostage for gold went viral too lmao

[velvet knot]

nokhuud

[warm plinth]

Despite my sincere hatred of Plaguefall, it's one of the few dungeons to do a gimmick properly (after the capping of the gauntlet spawns)

[daring marlin]

HoI I had no idea what anything did in heroic or 0s, get into M+ and mechanics actually mattered and it was a big shock

[warm plinth]

There's only one dungeon ever with Halls in the name that hasn't sucked balls anyway so I just assume they're going to be bad

[daring marlin]

Atonement? lol

[warm plinth]

Yep

[tribal wharf]

i hate plague fall from the theme and visuals of it