protection

[undone beacon]

I showed up late but I had to contribute to the thrilling skyhold conversation about feet

[jagged pier]

give it ago

[lusty grotto]

well done Pash

[undone beacon]

They are super slow even with gear but they are marked as legacy so you get full loot even with 1 person

[toxic pewter]

yah I heard legaacy

i bet groups running stuff

[lusty grotto]

Nome can i take over t he APL

[undone beacon]

[round pendant]

I don't even understand why people play prepatch at all

[undone beacon]

Groups have been running amirdrassil all xpac

[lusty grotto]

i havent even done the event lol

[unkempt hazel]

prepatch stuffs

[strong forum]

its always been open source

[jagged pier]

they like pressing buttons

[round pendant]

like there's been months between the season being dead and next expac, go play other stuff

[toxic pewter]

I see

[round pendant]

the content inbetween that time isn't worth the money

😔

[lusty grotto]

our lord and savior open source

[toxic pewter]

can the owl mount drop

that the 1 i want

[undone beacon]

Yes it can

[toxic pewter]

it can right

ok

[undone beacon]

That’s why most people run it

[jagged pier]

i dont know the new love in the air mount is big pog im suprised they didnt add it to the shop

[toxic pewter]

yeah def seems like the big ticket item

[unkempt hazel]

oh right i forgot

gotta farm the fly of butter

[lusty grotto]

fuck

thats daily isnt it

[undone beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/flying-butter-gif-20802861

[round pendant]

my friend got the rocket + the new one in one drop

[undone beacon]

Once a day chance yes

[toxic pewter]

ngl I like pre patches I like the feeling of an xpac ending with a new one rihgt around the corner

[jagged pier]

kill the boss i think

[lusty grotto]

nooo i missed yesterday

[jagged pier]

not dailies

[unkempt hazel]

is it once a day per char

or overall

[jagged pier]

theres just dailies

[lusty grotto]

oh

[jagged pier]

cause theres cool stuff on vendor

and lots of it

[undone beacon]

It’s once a day from the dungeon box per account

Same as the broom mount

[unkempt hazel]

sucks

[jagged pier]

if u want to min max u make 4 trial accounts

and 1 main account

[lusty grotto]

welp time to get it

[jagged pier]

your chances do increase

[toxic pewter]

[jagged pier]

each day if u dont get it

[round pendant]

I ain't subbing to potentially get a mount drop

😔

[unkempt hazel]

do u even grind

[undone beacon]

You won’t be a sub for a mount? Damn

[round pendant]

oh, I'll do that for free

[jagged pier]

isnt it dead>

[undone beacon]

https://64.media.tumblr.com/15c6a9defa302d346720dd67497595c2/e3d04335426e1d92-c7/s400x600/512e02b37db14c14ae0f8eaa036268cbe93b6ef0.gif

[round pendant]

grind what

[unkempt hazel]

I'll play it when they add offline mode

[lusty grotto]

they put in chapter 3 last week

so people came back

[unkempt hazel]

I hate the idea of losing base cuz I wanted to play smth else for a few weeks

[toxic pewter]

in dune game can I be a harkonen

[unkempt hazel]

[spare tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/yugioh-pot-of-greed-gif-7612588033886205832

[lusty grotto]

they removed taxes

so you only have to worry about power

also a base back up tool on the previous update

[unkempt hazel]

[lusty grotto]

plenty of things you can do to not lose bases

[unkempt hazel]

even if dont play for a year

[lusty grotto]

yeah just back up your base

[unkempt hazel]

you have piqued my curiosity

[lusty grotto]

power is still capped at 31 days though, if you leave it up

[undone beacon]

They shoulda done that for wow
You gotta pay taxes or they repossess your house

[lusty grotto]

lmao

[unkempt hazel]

oh right i should prolly unlock housing

[undone beacon]

Where all the gold going? “Neighborhood improvements”

[lusty grotto]

i dont have a house either dw

[jagged pier]

https://tenor.com/view/do-it-star-wars-emperor-palpatine-palpatine-gif-799657800635657398

[unkempt hazel]

but but

[waxen cradle]

Or repo your mounts

That would be hilarious

Like having your car repo'ed

[lusty grotto]

pash was joking

nobody wants ffxiv style "oh i lost my house"

[round pendant]

That reminds me of Rust

I loved Rust but fucking hell you have to babysit that game

[lusty grotto]

THAT I BOUGHT FOR MILLIONS OF GIL (AND HAD TO GRIND OR LOTTERY FOR)

[unkempt hazel]

I was thinking of conan, that game do got an offline mode

although I did play on some server first

[lusty grotto]

i dont think offline mode is gonna happen for dune

[waxen cradle]

Yeah I know but the out rage and the tears, I mean I could live for years off of the tears alone

[unkempt hazel]

still feels bad losing all dat

I had a fancy castle built

[lusty grotto]

agreed, its instant content

[drowsy comet]

with DF having now legacy loot, this means its possible to solo the raids right

[undone beacon]

It was possible already

It’s just slow as shit

[drowsy comet]

tho Ive never played thru DF..

but DF has some insane transmogs

[lusty grotto]

[unkempt hazel]

[undone beacon]

Don’t the lil gup

[round pendant]

I wish I cared about mogs and mounts

[lusty grotto]

thats one thing i have never heard about DF

[undone beacon]

Yam I swear every time someone talks about collections you say that

[waxen cradle]

Only a few mounts or mogs I care about

[lusty grotto]

i generally dont give a fuck about mogs so

[round pendant]

I kinda liked the war s1 tier set cosmetically

[lusty grotto]

but there was nothing really outstanding

[drowsy comet]

why can I imagine that yam runs with no mogs at all, and prolly uses the griffon mount u get at level 10

[unkempt hazel]

I did like df raids

[lusty grotto]

sure

[undone beacon]

DF had some solid transmogs imo. Aberrus sets stand out to me as being generally pretty strong, and the Amirdrassil DK set is baller

S1 you either like the stone aesthetic or you don’t

[unkempt hazel]

and I mean df does bring us HQ howl of gore

[drowsy comet]

Amirdrassil DH set is sexy af

[lusty grotto]

its ok

i prefer Manaforge

glowy feet

[round pendant]

I run with either no mogs or some full set like the pajamas or all items hidden

[undone beacon]

I do like the fire head

[lusty grotto]

[round pendant]

as for mounts I just favourite non-shit ones and press random mount

[unkempt hazel]

I like making cool tmogs

I dont often succeed

but hey

[round pendant]

my favourite mounts are the old low poly bears and shit though

[waxen cradle]

One thing I have always liked is the Warrior tier set mogs are either great or make your eyes bleed

[undone beacon]

I used to be more into making mogs but now there’s too many individual options for each slot and I’m a lazy fuck

[unkempt hazel]

I havent made a new non silly mog since sl I think

[round pendant]

I mean there's also the issue that nothing matches

[lusty grotto]

youve seen my go-to mog pash

[unkempt hazel]

so I just keep using the sme ones

[undone beacon]

I have the elite warrior set from this past season so I’m a happy camper

[lusty grotto]

chef nimchip ready to go always

[undone beacon]

Yeah it’s peak

[lusty grotto]

and then i have the arms/fury mog and thats it

[unkempt hazel]

I keep it shrimple

fur da horde n all that

[lusty grotto]

gross

[round pendant]

lemme grab mine

[unkempt hazel]

blocked

[lusty grotto]

LMAO

[waxen cradle]

I would be in favor of us being able to dye our gear though

[lusty grotto]

what a great mog, Nish would be proud

[drowsy comet]

water melon warrior

[round pendant]

and my rogue

[lusty grotto]

wait

i thought you were unsubbed

[unkempt hazel]

my monk

[round pendant]

it's from the wow website

[lusty grotto]

ohh

[undone beacon]

You can still look up chars in armory

[lusty grotto]

now thats a panda

yeah i thought it was the warbound screen for some reason

[unkempt hazel]

got a great name to go along with too

my m+ team hates it tho

[lusty grotto]

fuck em

top hat mogs are peak

[round pendant]

it's true

[lusty grotto]

one of our warlocks in my last guild had one looked great

[unkempt hazel]

we end the run and I hit em with a "it was a pandastic run"

[lusty grotto]

[round pendant]

I wish there was more content in wow that I liked so I didn't feel like the game is dead to me when they change m+ gameplay in a way I don't like

[unkempt hazel]

the names obviously pandastic

[round pendant]

but also I don't think I would ever pay expac cost + sub price just to collect pretty pixels on any game ever

[undone beacon]

My Druid is Pashamoose and I would start every key with “The Moose is Loose!” For a while

[unkempt hazel]

I do have a warlock in a top hat

hol up

[round pendant]

thurs a moose loose aboot this hoose

Do you guys know that reference?

[unkempt hazel]

proper chap

[waxen cradle]

Or you could say if the run is really successful that everyone peformed Pandastically

[undone beacon]

I don’t know shit

[unkempt hazel]

lol

[drowsy comet]

ay the pringles guy

[lusty grotto]

ok let me see if i can find a pic of the guildy

[tribal wharf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRhG9wWs6Uw

i dont play it but

[unkempt hazel]

suuure

[lusty grotto]

we're blasting off in the tangent early

[round pendant]

I don't believe that

You're a smartypants

[waxen cradle]

My monk is named Sumtingwong... truly surprised no one has complained and forced a name change on me

[tribal wharf]

90%+ of the time my conversations eventually circle back to wow or doom

[undone beacon]

[unkempt hazel]

lmao

[round pendant]

I got force name changed once

[lusty grotto]

thats...

[unkempt hazel]

my highmountain goes by Magnanimoose

[round pendant]

https://klipy.com/gifs/a-little-racist-workaholics

[lusty grotto]

yheahhhhh

but i laughed

[unkempt hazel]

a racist wouldn't laugh

[round pendant]

You've seen what that's from right

[lusty grotto]

sure

[tribal wharf]

'

[waxen cradle]

His name used to be Wonhunglou but yeah had a name change forced... it was funny at the time

[unkempt hazel]

man, I love taurens for like warrior mogs, but most casual mogs look awful on em, while pandas looks surpisingly nice in casual, but so hard to make a cool one

[round pendant]

I regret every tauren I've ever made

same with undead

[unkempt hazel]

naw I rly like taurens generally

[round pendant]

well

you're wrong

[unkempt hazel]

used to be more of an orc guy

[undone beacon]

My friends guildie had a character named pissprincess and that got reported and force name changed

[unkempt hazel]

but for w/e reason stopped liking them that much

[waxen cradle]

My wife had a hunter named An Album cover but yeah put that together and it gets read incorrectly

[round pendant]

[tribal wharf]

hard to blame you

but orc isnt my primary choice

[round pendant]

I only really like female orc on horde side

[unkempt hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/orc-gif-19728525

[round pendant]

everything else looks a bit odd in movement

[unkempt hazel]

if they looked like this in game

[round pendant]

or with certain mogs

[unkempt hazel]

I'd 100% go back

alas

[round pendant]

well

wow won't and will never have that fidelity

[unkempt hazel]

I mean the build

[lusty grotto]

couldnt find it in game

but here you go

[unkempt hazel]

the posture too is still buggy afaik

the straight back one

[lusty grotto]

that was our top hat warlock

[round pendant]

korean mmos have the best character models

[unkempt hazel]

thats classs

[round pendant]

don't bonk me

it's true

[undone beacon]

I made my priest a female mag’har orc and it looks and feels great

[unkempt hazel]

well

thats cuz they always stood straight

lol

fem orcs yeah have really nice models

[round pendant]

female orcs are good

[unkempt hazel]

most plate armor looks great on em

[round pendant]

cause they basically have the same skeleton as human male which everything is designed for

[unkempt hazel]

yep

[round pendant]

so nothing clips and no jank

[unkempt hazel]

hm I need to see how zandalari look as warrs

should make an alt

[tribal wharf]

its fine on dwarf for the most part

[waxen cradle]

Been a long time ago and I have no idea how, but a LONG time ago my wife made a character named Cheezypoof and someone reported her for and it forced a name change

[tribal wharf]

cuz i played alot of dwarf

[waxen cradle]

Never understood that one

[drowsy comet]

once a dwarf, always a dwarf

[tribal wharf]

probably the poo part

[round pendant]

because "poof" can be used as a slur for a gay person

[solid sun]

I think I managed to get asstacular somehow

I got reported

[round pendant]

It's a british slur

[waxen cradle]

Oh wow really ? She made is as a play on south park obviously

[tribal wharf]

what? pool can mean that?

[undone beacon]

Wait fr? I have never heard of this before

[unkempt hazel]

should I even mention some of my questionable names...

[lusty grotto]

asstacular you say?

[undone beacon]

Oh it’s a British slur lmao

[tribal wharf]

pool means to me like a fucking pool you know

a big collection of liquid or water

[round pendant]

yogi you need glasses

f, not l

[tribal wharf]

mostly water cuz you can swim in most pools, its a more of a swamp if its a bunch of stuff mixed together

[lusty grotto]

and he went off

https://klipy.com/gifs/team-rocket-blasting-off-again

[unkempt hazel]

or maybe i should race change to a brit

[round pendant]

Yeah it's our version of the f-slur

it's bad

[waxen cradle]

She is a lot shorter than me and likes to play Gnomes so she has a character named Puddlejumper which is pretty funny because she would complain she has to swim through water my characters can run through

[tribal wharf]

its like there was once a time in to a wow stream i think it was MDI or RWF or something and the intro screen was clearly in 720p30fps instead of 1080p60

and then i told them get some egg heads on it and i got timed out for that

which like, egg heads? is a slur? that ppl care about dont be called it? generally means a smart person far as i know

[undone beacon]

Hm, you learn something new every day

[round pendant]

"Egghead" is literally rooted in anti-intellectualism

it's like dork

[unkempt hazel]

surely dork is not a slur yet

[waxen cradle]

Yeah for real never would have known that... like I said her intent was a play on south park

[round pendant]

well neither is egghead

[unkempt hazel]

[round pendant]

but it's not a positive word

[tribal wharf]

i think its way more HOW and when and how aggressively somebody is using a term

[unkempt hazel]

I always found dork to be like

[tribal wharf]

like, someone dies to an obvious fire mechanic, oh you idiot

[unkempt hazel]

maybe negative but... idk not a bad word

hard to explain

[round pendant]

well dork is more social ineptitude ig

ig nerd is what I meant but that's been made more positive over the years

[unkempt hazel]

I mean like it has endearing energy

[tribal wharf]

and then immediately everyone moves on, as opposed to yelling and screaming u god damn f

[round pendant]

idk calling someone an idiot is almost never okay in any context around a mistake

Yogi are you on the spectrum

[waxen cradle]

I did name my Bear tank Bearymanalow for a while... got tired of it and changed it though

[unkempt hazel]

what if I say "you beautiful idiot"

[sharp gale]

You call someone an idiot in a burst of emotion, you don’t really control, you are pissed

[lusty grotto]

[round pendant]

The last person I called an idiot was nimchip

I was indeed a little mad

@lusty grotto I'M SORRY

[lusty grotto]

[unkempt hazel]

https://youtu.be/2pqQWM_4PWA

[lusty grotto]

it happens, i see it as tough love

[undone beacon]

Nim and Yam arguing is always fun because at the end of the day love wins

[unkempt hazel]

I strive to rage like this guy

[undone beacon]

No matter how dense the boys get

[round pendant]

lmao

[lusty grotto]

that title is incorrect, its supposed to be "Luck You I Hope Your Whole Lamily Has A Nice Christmas"

[unkempt hazel]

dont make me lick u

[sharp gale]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1009237219216719902/1201942150166609950/DuyFSlUx.gif

[tribal wharf]

i am big rage my self

and i will raise holy hell just for the fun of it

[lusty grotto]

yoursell?

[round pendant]

I generally try to be nice to everybody but sometimes I criticise people for having takes I deem as dogshit

so just don't have bad takes and I'll be a cutie

[unkempt hazel]

I call ppl all the slurs in history when the mic is turned off /s

[tribal wharf]

whats the fucking point of playing the fucking video game (any of them) and it sucks and then i cant bitch and moan and piss and carry on ??

[lusty grotto]

true

[tribal wharf]

and say the game sucks because X Y and Z

[lusty grotto]

based yogi take

[sharp gale]

Im insulting in my regular language, I use bad word in regular talk very often

[round pendant]

The only games that get me pissing and moaning are fighting games

[tribal wharf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_y3X8onQEc

[lusty grotto]

i know some of those words

[tribal wharf]

i am like this dude when it comes to rage

[round pendant]

but generally if you're raging at every game even trivial shit like DOOM

you need therapy

[unkempt hazel]

idk why but this reminded me of that cod clip

about being flashed

I think it was cod

[round pendant]

(Or just to take a long hard look at yourself)

[waxen cradle]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/887430010652632 Now for your viewing pleasure a baby tiger sucking on a pacifier

[tribal wharf]

doom, is the biggest thing you can and should rage at LMFAO

[sharp gale]

Putain/fucking is a very common one

[lusty grotto]

i always laugh every time someone goes tabernac cause we had a guildy in vanilla that had a half quebec family

[tribal wharf]

doom is like the hardest motherfuckin game ever made

depening on the map and your skill issue

[round pendant]

https://klipy.com/gifs/jarvis-ragebait-1

[tribal wharf]

post

yer

[solid sun]

I like dweeb

[tribal wharf]

fuckin

doom content

mother fucker!!!!

[solid sun]

Calling someone a dweeb is 10/10

[tribal wharf]

you cant do it

cuz you suck at doom

see, im doing what you do to me with wow

you dont even play

[round pendant]

cute

[sharp gale]

Tabernac is exclusive to Quebec, a random French would not really understand a quebcois

[round pendant]

I only said you suck once cause you kept blaming the game instead of yourself

[sharp gale]

If he goes full tabernac

[lusty grotto]

that makes sense happy

[round pendant]

it's tough love lil gup

[tribal wharf]

oh i know i suck at video games

[undone beacon]

Whats a tabernac is that like Tabernacle because thats a fun freakin word

[unkempt hazel]

just because its true, don't make it right

sun tzu or something

[tribal wharf]

so i mostly choose to play games its easier to be bad at

[undone beacon]

Is going full tabernac like going apoplectic

[solid sun]

You never go full tabernac

[unkempt hazel]

this why I play squirrel girl in rivals

can't suck if im already aiming at the wall

[undone beacon]

eat nuts and kick butts or something am i right 🐿️

[unkempt hazel]

I didn't miss, they just didnt walk into the nuts

[round pendant]

If you blame the game but everyone's telling you you're just bad, maybe stop criticisng the game's design at least

[unkempt hazel]

thats on THEM

[round pendant]

Shit like that is why we get pruning and addons gutted

[unkempt hazel]

the game should be designed to make me the best

[round pendant]

whiny players who don't wanna put the effort in

[unkempt hazel]

its just that simple

[round pendant]

I had to replace "casuals" with "players" in that sentence before I got called an elitist gatekeeper

[unkempt hazel]

me specifically of course

I mean I am a casual

😭

[round pendant]

There's nothing wrong with that

[unkempt hazel]

tbf rivals is special

[waxen cradle]

lol

[unkempt hazel]

we got elite gamers raging in quickplay

[undone beacon]

I hate addons blizzard has designed for me the perfect systems to use

[unkempt hazel]

i swear I didn't see that as much in ow

still there obv but nowhere near rivals level

[round pendant]

People raging in unranked queues is a tale as old as time itself

[unkempt hazel]

no no I know

[round pendant]

They're just bad at the game and projecting

[unkempt hazel]

just that in rivals I swear its on a new level

[tribal wharf]

i think there is a fundamental problem that is evident when you got 30 buttons you can bind for combat, and you only got 10 fingers for the button problem

[solid sun]

I don’t think casual players whining is why the addon thing happened

[undone beacon]

random unrated bgs in wow are so toxic and then rated matches are usually chill af

[solid sun]

Most people seemed to agree that addons should be scaled back and the base game made better

🤔

[tribal wharf]

and the addon problem is one in the same with my big advertisments rant yesterday

[undone beacon]

I blame Frac for accelerating the addon changes

[round pendant]

source: your ass

[unkempt hazel]

im generally not whiny

[solid sun]

The source isn’t my ass

[waxen cradle]

You know what would be truly diabolical is if the addon purge fails and blizzard opens there combat API back up, and they partnered with the addon authors to make us pay for the use of addons in there game

[unkempt hazel]

I may rage but deep down ik I'm just ass 😔 ✊

[tribal wharf]

theres too fuckin many of them, they are all over the internet and you have to go to websites and download exes and overwolf and all this other shit

[waxen cradle]

Not a lot mind you but just a little bit

[lusty grotto]

calm down satan

[solid sun]

Streamers have said it, loads of people in discord servers have said it, etc etc. it’s a very common perspective

[waxen cradle]

lmao

[solid sun]

What pissed people off was that they didn’t do it how they said they were going to do it

[tribal wharf]

and so know every single day i have over wolf launches, launches like 10 other fuckin programs

[lusty grotto]

yes, raid WAs were fucking horrible

[undone beacon]

I want it to be like Minecraft Bedrock where we buy minecoins hearthsteel in packs to purchase watered down java mods addons from in-game storefront

[tribal wharf]

just so i can get my details addon downloaded for the update because there was a patch

[lusty grotto]

every fucking fight since echo of nelth that had WA setup was just absolute ass

or since before that even

[tribal wharf]

and if i didnt update all those addons my games lagging the fuck out now

and blizzard cant help because i got 40 fuckin addons with my fps

[sharp gale]

It’s how I say when a quebecois give up on mutual comprehension, and ramp up old French words

[tribal wharf]

and like, holy fuck, at some point its CRAZY

[undone beacon]

ahhhhhh gotcha

[unkempt hazel]

I always thought that raid addons were bad simply because I figured blizz started designing encounters with the addons in mind

[round pendant]

Peoples problems with addons was EXCLUSIVELY the fact that fights could be solved by them, so they wanted addons to be locked down a little from being able to see boss auras and communication between addons

[solid sun]

That was not the “exclusive” problem with addons

[round pendant]

Blizzard decided to go way further than that and extend it into some "addons shouldn't give an advantage thing" and define an advantage as literally anything that the base doesn't provide

[tribal wharf]

i just cant when it comes to that shit any more, i want you know like at least 25% of addons, to be in house by blizzard made, so my game doesnt lag out

so i can play the damn game

[round pendant]

which is explicitly to cater to toxic casuals and the whole "addons play the game for you" rhetoric

[waxen cradle]

Not sayin Blizz would ever do it, but I can literally hear them now... saying some crap like they realized what is best for the game is what the player base had already created and they now realize it... not admitting a mistake... flipping the words to make it a win for them

[lusty grotto]

im fine with the game as it is now

going back on that is a huge loss

now, as in prepatch

[tribal wharf]

i'm fine with the game as it is now too

just, man its got alot of issues

[lusty grotto]

people can play without addons without issues

[round pendant]

THEY ALWAYS COULD

[lusty grotto]

since even a damage meter is available

[round pendant]

I'm gonna crash out

[lusty grotto]

not at the top end

or even at the mid end

[unkempt hazel]

nuke dmg meter, make it a mistery whos afk and whos top dps

[lusty grotto]

i mean some mmos do that

[tribal wharf]

i think, leave the option for dps meter hidden

[sharp gale]

On my side, I’m close, I only have Arcui as 100% gameplay cheating addon

[round pendant]

define mid end

[lusty grotto]

but i dont think its helpful

[unkempt hazel]

which ones

[tribal wharf]

and then players who want it can discover it one day

[unkempt hazel]

actually just curious

[lusty grotto]

ffxiv 🙂

[undone beacon]

I wanted to set up arcui but i installed it, pulled up the config window, and said yeah fuck that lol

[tribal wharf]

its just 1 random option, turn on damage meters

[round pendant]

You did not need addons for heroic or early mythic bosses, you did not need addons for M+ until keys that only like 1% of people were doing

[sharp gale]

The UI of that addon is really bad yes

[unkempt hazel]

pretty sure they got an addon

u just can get banned if ur found out

[tribal wharf]

dont you go to jail for ff14 addons

[lusty grotto]

its not what we think is needed, its what those people in that content tier feel they need

[tribal wharf]

a literal fucking jail

[undone beacon]

like it seems really powerful but oy vey

[round pendant]

People can feel the wrong thing

[tribal wharf]

a prison

with bar steel doors

[round pendant]

Just because they feel they need an addon doesn't make it true

[lusty grotto]

yes us here, as good players, can probably fuckigns teamroll heroic without addons

[tribal wharf]

rock walls, tiny boring area

with other law breakers

[lusty grotto]

but other players cannot

[unkempt hazel]

im just sayin

[round pendant]

The game shouldn't be designed and restrictions placed around people "feeling" shit provides advantages where it's actually meaningless

[sharp gale]

That’s why I only did a rage bar, shield block bar, and whirlwind, I don’t use the cdm part

[unkempt hazel]

never used them myself

[round pendant]

half these people install addons and never look at them

[unkempt hazel]

REAL

[lusty grotto]

you used to, but they have become more flexible as of late

[undone beacon]

Any tips for setting it up? Or just kind of grin and bear it

[round pendant]

You only used to get in trouble if you mentioned the third party stuff ingame

in ffxiv

[jagged pier]

i just used senseis rage bar

[lusty grotto]

now its acceptable as long as you dont harass other players

[jagged pier]

and tmw

[sharp gale]

Im clueless, I just wanted to not use Blizz bars, it’s the only thing I was interested in

[jagged pier]

far easier

[undone beacon]

tmw?

[round pendant]

tellmewhen

[solid sun]

Tellmewhen

[unkempt hazel]

tell you when what

[undone beacon]

Oh. tbh idk that one

[unkempt hazel]

[lusty grotto]

im running elvui + better cdm

[round pendant]

it just did the CD tracking part of weakauras but simpler to setup

[jagged pier]

ppl used to call it budget WAs

[unkempt hazel]

I dropped elvui

[waxen cradle]

A buddy of mine and me got into a huge discussion because he feels that even if you can modify your UI in a way that someone else cannot because they don't use those addons that are still allowed.... that you still create what could be seen as a unfair advantage. He felt the addon purge should have been more strict

[undone beacon]

I'll look into it, I've got Sensei's bars and I've been pleased, esp since he added Tip of the Spear tracking for survival

[jagged pier]

and im like its a lighter weight and easier to use thing, if u arejust tracking stuff just use TMW

[sharp gale]

I used it first, but I’m so used to whirlwind stacks or shield block being a bar

[undone beacon]

Literally replaced one of two WAs i used for my hunter

[round pendant]

I'd prefer them straight up deleting addons

[undone beacon]

Thanks Sensei

[round pendant]

than what we have now

[jagged pier]

oh ive always just used icons

[lusty grotto]

theres a whirlwind stack addon

[jagged pier]

but fair

[tribal wharf]

my thoughts is simply that blizzard should take the to 5 or 10 addons that EVERYBODY uses and make them baseline, but they kind have done that with new quests, and dps and modifiable ui, and other features

so the game doesnt lag the hell out

[unkempt hazel]

nuke rio too

[waxen cradle]

Yeah thats what he was saying, he thought it should be all of them or whats the point

[undone beacon]

Does TMW do sound queues?

[jagged pier]

this

[round pendant]

I never had any issue with addons causing lag

[jagged pier]

10000000%

[round pendant]

Cause I simply installed the bare minimum

[sharp gale]

I know but I will not change what I did yet, it’s prepatch idc, I just need something to clear all 3 raids in 40 min

[lusty grotto]

outside of elvui in SL s1, you mean?

[tribal wharf]

cuz if the game lags out when its 10 players vs 1 raid boss with 2 or 3 adds and your suddenly getting 10 fps with a decent pc

[round pendant]

I haven't used elvui in years

[lusty grotto]

ok then

[tribal wharf]

its like what the fuck

[round pendant]

I also didn't play sl

lol

[lusty grotto]

gotcha

[unkempt hazel]

did anyone play sl

[lusty grotto]

i dont use it, just saying

[unkempt hazel]

[round pendant]

But yeah

[tribal wharf]

i have to be able to play the game, for it to be somewhat enjoyable

[lusty grotto]

like you dont even need it as thane tbh

[tribal wharf]

is big rant im trying to say

[lusty grotto]

since youre always clapping

[sharp gale]

I don’t have a nameplate addon yet, I’m trying out the Blizz one until I notice I can’t use them

[unkempt hazel]

ok real talk but now with was gone, is there an addon for trail effct

[lusty grotto]

im still using plater

[undone beacon]

I'm using Platy and its been nice

[round pendant]

People seeing top end players using addons and then thinking they need that stuff to do well in their weekly keys or heroic raids complaining enough that blizzard takes the toys away from those top-end players for the sake of people who literally didn't need that shit in the first place

just obnoxious

fuck that's a run on sentence sorry

[undone beacon]

The Platy ui is super user friendly

[unkempt hazel]

I'm a pro at losing where my cursor is istg

[round pendant]

I'm against it on principle

[tribal wharf]

i think thats something blizzard should add to retail as a option for accesiblity

[round pendant]

even if you don't need the addons now (you never did) or that 99% of the stuff I did with addons is still doable

[undone beacon]

I gotta get Opie and TMW installed and set up I guess

[tribal wharf]

cursor trail or circle around cursor

[unkempt hazel]

based

[undone beacon]

The only addon I care about working in prepatch is Rematch

And it does

So I have zero further thoughts

[lusty grotto]

they should, yogi

[tribal wharf]

i literally had an addon called cursor trail

[lusty grotto]

but ultimate mouse cursor is good enough

[tribal wharf]

and its like, 7 lines of code

[round pendant]

They should make the cursor not dogshit in the first place

the fact it disappears when you right click and you can't change that

[sharp gale]

I did a random floodgate, yes I would need a nameplate addon if I cared that much

[tribal wharf]

when cursor move, add flash effect around it and cursor trail

done

[round pendant]

no you don't

[sharp gale]

The scaffold going out of my screen

[round pendant]

The nameplate positioning is entirely controlled by blizzard

addons can't change it

beyond setting margins and stacking/overlapping plates

[solid sun]

Even the top players I was listening to seemed to believe the addon shift was healthy for the game. When people got upset was when it went from a gradual shift to an abrupt Armageddon

[unkempt hazel]

the worst part is when I let go the cursor and move it multiple times and sometimes still cant see where it is

[lusty grotto]

i just have plater and a profile because it looks better but yeah you dont need it

[unkempt hazel]

like just end me atp

[round pendant]

yeah if you're moving your camera lot you'll just lose it guaranteed

[sharp gale]

I didn’t know that, maybe I really don’t need it

[round pendant]

Yeah see

[undone beacon]

All i know is we keep calling it an addon purge but all its made me do is install a bunch of new addons to replicate what WAs used to do for me :(

[round pendant]

No offense, but these kinda uninformed opinions are why I'm mad about the addon gutting

like it's understandable to not know

[sharp gale]

But it was cancer to target the scaffold, I gave up on directly attacking it

[lusty grotto]

uhh outside of ultimate mouse cursor and bcdm, i havent installed any additional addons, in fact im still -2 (WA + Omnicd) so its the same number

[round pendant]

but to complain about those uninformed takes to the point that it becomes some consensus within the casual community who don't need addons at all but just THINK they do

just ruins it for the people who use those addons for valid reasons (like making their UIs more efficient and easier to read)

it's just a net negative

that's my weekly addon rant, thanks for coming to my ted talk

[sharp gale]

I exclude the non-gameplay addons like mdt, mrt, loot council ofc

[lusty grotto]

you dont think all players having access to a damage meter and being othe same plane in terms of nameplates is a good thing?

[tribal wharf]

i would want MDT as a baseline too, but that can come MUCH later to the game

[lusty grotto]

cause its def a good thing

[tribal wharf]

because its clearly much larger of an undertaking

[lusty grotto]

the ability timeline too

[tribal wharf]

and not 8 lines of code

[undone beacon]

TMW, Sensei, MPlusTimer, EQOL, Ultimate Mouse Cursor, and a few CDM addons

[sharp gale]

Mdt is imo important thing Blizz should add

[tribal wharf]

more like 800 lines of code, but not like 8000, you know

[unkempt hazel]

no need for mdt

[undone beacon]

Essentially things that were WAs that are now just standalone addons

[unkempt hazel]

just make all dungeons streamlined

[lusty grotto]

🤷‍♂️ i aint installing TMW or Sensei, bcdm has a rage bar

[round pendant]

Imo, blizzard should have just mandated that addons go through their own addon section on bnet and not curseforge/etc

and they could moderate shit they don't want

[lusty grotto]

i actually agree with that

[round pendant]

and baseline dps meters are good

[solid sun]

Don’t need mdt if you just press w

[round pendant]

but deleting details extra functionality as a side effect of the nuking

nah, fuck off

[unkempt hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/mujikcboro-seriymujik-gif-24361533

[undone beacon]

idk i just dont like BCDM that much, but if it works it works

[sharp gale]

Even with streamlined dungeon, I would advocate for mdt/ a trash dungeon journal at least

[waxen cradle]

Thats what I think they should have done

[round pendant]

It solves most of the problems

[unkempt hazel]

well that could be added to dungeon thingy

[undone beacon]

alright ive got meetings when i come back there better be at least 200 messages of riveting discussion

[unkempt hazel]

idk why it isnt ngl

[solid sun]

Idk wasn’t the extra details info mostly just used to bully people after keys bricked or raids wiped

[lean aurora]

This is a core gameplay loop.

[lusty grotto]

no its not

cause details info is garbage

and logs are always superior

you lost nothing but quick glancing at best

[round pendant]

Then addons could be a "core" feature of the game that you can just install from bnet if you want extra functionality which are confirmed to be within blizzard's rules

and you just say to people who want that feature

[unkempt hazel]

me when the dps rages that the priest had zero interrupts

[round pendant]

oh open bnet and go to the addons section and get details

simple

[sharp gale]

Exactly, bc it is important for tanks / a role with pop issue since 2005, some help is helping

[cunning oriole]

FWIW I don't care that having no add-ons puts everyone on an equal footing. I like add-ons, I genuinely enjoy the aspect of being able to mod my UI. I like what they do for the game, because Blizzard's UI and game options are terribly designed, horribly organized and severely lacking in options. And as long as the gameplay relies on RNG, I'll use add-ons regardless of who thinks I'm bad.

[waxen cradle]

Look how much faith you have in us, its almost enough to create of jolt of wait emotion... nah thats not it

[round pendant]

also yeah, I liked customising my UI and making WAs too and that's basically killed now beyond just skinning existing frames

[unkempt hazel]

ur gon come back to sunshine and rainbows

https://tenor.com/view/dog-nose-butterfly-dog-puppy-peaceful-gif-14700589898488542320

[round pendant]

so I lost a part of the game I enjoyed even if it's not the intended purpose of the game

😔

[lusty grotto]

https://klipy.com/gifs/mouse-brushing

[round pendant]

Does core dps meters have death recaps?

[sharp gale]

Fortunately I still have my meow sound when I need to rallying cry in raid

[dusky canopy]

Hims happy!

[round pendant]

What about damage taken by ability

interrupts?

All of these I used to see who was slacking so I could tell if it was me fucking up or not

They're not as detailed as logs ofc but they can looked at mid dungeon

[lusty grotto]

im not wrong still

[sharp gale]

LOGS

[lusty grotto]

ill say it again

logs are better

you lost a way to quickly glance through shit

thats it

[round pendant]

Yeah and sometimes you'd make a different decision when you run it back in that same key

now you just dunno what went wrong til after it's over

[lusty grotto]

sure

[round pendant]

It's objectively worse, for no benefit elsewhere

[sharp gale]

Dmg taken by ability was not that useful in details, having the list of ppl dmg done per target was more useful to quick see

[lusty grotto]

i mean i can understand running it back but you cant say it happened often

if at all

based on details

[solid sun]

If someone doesn’t get bullied by details info, especially when the fail wasn’t even their fault, that seems like a benefit somewhere

[round pendant]

I've had times where I told a dps to focus a target after seeing the prio took forever to die and one of the dudes wasn't attacking him at all

and then they

did that

[sharp gale]

Dmg taken is more useful to see with events, which details never did

[lusty grotto]

agreed happy

[waxen cradle]

I will say keeping a generic damage meter in game that still tells people how much damage they are doing or how much healing they are doing or something of that type does seem pointless if the more valuable information can't be displayed anymore is silly. I do however agree that details info is far from accurate on most situations.

[round pendant]

Or even just "oh that guy didn't use his defensive, it's not my fault"

[lusty grotto]

how many times have we told people here to link logs instead of details breakdowns?

[round pendant]

to prevent negative self-vibe terrorism mid key

[sharp gale]

Ambient dmg taken being the top 5 dmg taken in details, very useful

[round pendant]

Something doesn't have to be useful every single dungeon for it to be worth keeping or having access to

[sharp gale]

But I used details a lot to see dmg done to targets / in raid

[round pendant]

But ig you guys still haven't realised my argument is based on my opinion that the loss isn't worth the gain

[cunning oriole]

I'm still trying to figure out what the gain was

[round pendant]

You could have got basically 100% of the gain and 10% of the loss by just changing the API to disallow a couple things

[sharp gale]

My opinion is truth itself

[waxen cradle]

My entire stance on a "damage meter" if you will existing is if you can't see interrupts or, damage taken or something actually relevant then why keep a meter that is essentially grossly inaccurate in the first place that shows damage done or healing numbers

[round pendant]

vs now where it's like a giga addon gutting for the same gain

which isn't much gain at all

[cunning oriole]

Cause the game plays worse than ever now

[lusty grotto]

does it?

[round pendant]

The gain is that you can't do assignment auras anymore

and ig hekili is dead

[lusty grotto]

and omni cd

[cunning oriole]

Doesn't it?

[lusty grotto]

not really

[round pendant]

omnicd is just an equalizer imo, it replaces the need to be on voice chat for higher end content

[lusty grotto]

its the same old

why would the game play worse

[round pendant]

and it still wasn't as optimal as communicating on voice

So it's.. fine?

[sharp gale]

I never used omnicd

[lusty grotto]

idk i dont feel degradation in gameplay at all

[cunning oriole]

Played since Wrath, never got Blizzard UI errors before pre-patch

[lusty grotto]

ive played since vanilla

[waxen cradle]

I honestly feel keeping a super generic damage meter in a way just feeds degen mentalities of hur hur hur look at my big numbers when those numbers are massively inaccurate and not at all relevant compared to logs

[lusty grotto]

but yes i get what youre saying

and those are gonna get fixed

i havent gotten any this week, for reference

[round pendant]

well the stock dps meter is server based so it should be more accurate than logs

in terms of the dps number

tho it won't show all the info because blizzard are stupid

so it'll cut out some damage sources

[cunning oriole]

Moneyframe errors, there is no loot, etc

[sharp gale]

I understand the errors, Blizz UI can juggle with secret values too

[waxen cradle]

Yeah true enough

[solid sun]

I wish the damage meter only reported for you and not other people

[tribal wharf]

i think right now for healing it shows actual healing

and not theroretical over healing

[waxen cradle]

My whole arguement is against why keep one feature of the meter but cut away what's truly relevant

[round pendant]

Hekili being dead is good in my eyes, but not at the cost of everything else

and we coulda solved assignment auras way more surgically

Everyone would have been happy

[sharp gale]

You have hekili at home since 11.1.5

[cunning oriole]

Hekili isn't dead, it was replaced

[round pendant]

but my #1 issue is the dodgy communication from blizzard and Ion straight up lying to our faces

so I'm not playing midnight out of principle

they either fire ion or revert the changes or it's geegs from me

all options are fine

[sharp gale]

Where did he lie ?

[lusty grotto]

this seems like an overreaction

[waxen cradle]

Ion and Blizzard are bowing to there corporate daddys

[lusty grotto]

you dont say

[round pendant]

Why?

[spare tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/yassturrets-symmetra-cake-stan-twitter-gif-2047754808758968297

[lusty grotto]

i mean its their bosses so

[solid sun]

Iirc ion said there would be a gradual pulling back of addons

[waxen cradle]

Whatever big daddy corporate says they are going to do they have to do

[solid sun]

But they kinda just went the other direction with it

[lusty grotto]

yes thats what a job is

[cunning oriole]

@yam Your voice is needed to see change. The slop design has to end

[sharp gale]

I think they just changed their mind when they looked more into it

[strong forum]

nerds biggest nemesis

[round pendant]

I mean that doesn't justify lying about the goals and steps they'll take

[strong forum]

and most scary nightmare

[lusty grotto]

[round pendant]

And I don't have to play a game that the guy in charge is driving in a direction I don't like

It ain't that deep

[solid sun]

I don’t see the big issue with it personally. I was just identifying the issue some folks have. And tbf yam isn’t alone there

[waxen cradle]

I mean in the end we will see how it plays out. If it betters the game then hey that's great, but it could all blow up in there faces. At the very start I thought Blizzard had taken a HUGE gamble with all of this and in a way I still do, but it could work out great. On the other hand though it could go really bad.

[sharp gale]

Yeah I don’t see it as problematic, it was 3-4 months before, in my imagination, they just changed their mind after they did technical exam of what they need to do

[undone beacon]

the only thing that can kill wow is wow

[solid sun]

What’s really funny is that since then they’ve added back more functionality to open the doors for more addons to come back

And other people are mad about that

Truly no win situation

[sharp gale]

Starting from scratch is the only way they could do it

And between 2 expansions

[solid sun]

Obviously the wow population isn’t just some monolith so obviously lots of voices and perspectives

If anything I feel bad for the team

[cunning oriole]

I don't. No excuse for Blizzard. If they were a small, indie company, sure.

[sharp gale]

Im more optimistic than regular ppl, i never say they are dumb, they did the most logical thing in their perspective and im not a game dev

[solid sun]

That’s not very nice, Mahkarn

[cunning oriole]

But Blizzard is the top, the elite. If you work there, you should be the top .01%

[round pendant]

lol

[waxen cradle]

I will say that they have a lot riding on this decision going well, and I still feel that way. I still feel the things they said about having to fill the gaps left by addons and making what addons do be part of the base game is a big undertaking and they have to deliver or simply have it be proven they were wrong again.

[lusty grotto]

all im gonna say is that i had the same amount of fun if not more after the purge. Ask the crew, we did some shit before and after.

and thats the only thing that matters to me

[solid sun]

Where is the crew

We have many questions!

[undone beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-silly-hello-hi-silly-kitten-cat-wave-hello-gif-15245852903591135367

[lusty grotto]

theyre always here

[round pendant]

I mean I saw some of the new dungeons in PTR

and they looked so fucking boring

And I can attribute some of that to the changes

less kicks, less mechanics, mechanics take 5x longer to resolve

[sharp gale]

Same fun here, my guild is more sad about some class change, addons, no one give a fuck

[cunning oriole]

Microsoft is hiring vibecoding designers straight out of college to save money, pushing out the people with vision and talent and passion, and the game development shows that direction.

[round pendant]

the UI for healers is atrocious

[solid sun]

What did y’all do for Nimchip’s birthday

[lusty grotto]

https://klipy.com/gifs/ah-shit-here-we-go-again-cj

vibe coding was mentioned, you ready yam?

[solid sun]

Mahkarn is Yam’s brother

Or sister

100%

[round pendant]

why

Lots of people dislike ai slop, rhino

[lusty grotto]

are you a software dev?

[solid sun]

He’s enlisted his siblings to continue the war against vibe coding

[round pendant]

Have you seen the news on how people are cheating in universities with chatgpt

[solid sun]

Hey I’m not mad about it, yam I respect the passion

[cunning oriole]

My point is about the corporatization of a beloved game developer

[round pendant]

and even the professors are grading papers with chatgpt

[cunning oriole]

Not the tools

Idgaf about AI, I use it myself daily

[round pendant]

Any fresh graduate is basically almost guaranteed to be a fraud

[undone beacon]

I'm so glad I graduated college right before the AI explosion

[lusty grotto]

yes, which is why education needs to evolve

[solid sun]

Wait

[lusty grotto]

and focus critical thinking

[solid sun]

I thought universities punished AI cheating pretty harshly

Did that change

[round pendant]

Prove it

[lusty grotto]

yes but

thats not the right approach

[cunning oriole]

Can't stop the signal Mal

[lusty grotto]

they are at least here in NA, yam

however thats not the right way they need to go about all of this

[round pendant]

It is, imo

[lusty grotto]

the testing needs to evolve

[round pendant]

If you use chatgpt to cheat because you cba learning, you shouldn't be in school

[solid sun]

I remember seeing some stuff on the local news about ai/chatgpt/whatever being used to “write” papers and professors were identifying what was done through those means and failing students

[lusty grotto]

brother, everyone should be in school

[round pendant]

But getting a job is too tied to degrees, I'll give you that

[lusty grotto]

education is important

[round pendant]

So the incentive is just get a degree, not actually learn

So of course people will cheat

[sharp gale]

I don’t really like degree inflation we had the past 20 years

[round pendant]

I'm talking about higher education

[cunning oriole]

AI is a tool like a paintbrush. The difference is in the artists that use the tools

Education is gonna have to adapt to that

[round pendant]

Hiring graduates who are literally cheating and learning nothing is going to literally ruin every product you use

[cunning oriole]

Agree

[round pendant]

It's already happening with microsoft and windows and their vibe coding slop

[cunning oriole]

Agree

[round pendant]

Stands to reason it extends to blizzard

[lusty grotto]

if "cheating" serves no purpose, its effectively eliminated, so you attack it by making sure grading is based on understanding and not on memorization and/or projects that can be solved by putting the question on a chatbot

[sharp gale]

Not if you hire poor people from southern country to do the fixing job

[lusty grotto]

i think we can all agree that microsoft and their copilot push is garbage

but that will bite them in the ass anyway

[round pendant]

That's fair, but as it stands right NOW, they're hiring morons who don't know what they're doing

[waxen cradle]

The real issue is the degrees that people have been receiving that have literal no use in the job market. Even if they did have a degree that they worked there asses off for the market of jobs out there that actually require or could make use of those degrees is significantly low

[sharp gale]

I vaguely know what is copilot, they are doing something special about it ?

[round pendant]

so it's fair to say that some of the downward trend of software rn is attributable to ai slop

[lusty grotto]

do you know that for a fact

i can only tell you about what my company is doing

whiteboards are still being done

on interviews

concepts are being tested

in the interview process

[cunning oriole]

They can have an army of vibecoders, I don't care. Programming doesn't make a company. It's the vision to make an enjoyable game experience, the dedication to excellence, the passion for good storytelling that matters

[round pendant]

Microsoft own Blizzard
Microsoft are big shillers of AI
Microsoft will tell employers that AI is good and if someone shows forward-thinking by using it, hire that visionary
Everybody is cheating in uni with AI

connect the dots

[cunning oriole]

That's what matters

[lusty grotto]

and furthermore if a company is only hiring vibe coders, like i mentioned the other day, they will, again, have it bite them in the ass eventually

[sharp gale]

Too big to fail

[solid sun]

I believe yam and Mahkarn are claiming it is currently biting them

[round pendant]

Yeah my friend is interviewing for his company too and the amount of people who say "I just get AI to do it for me" is insane apparently

instant rejection

[lusty grotto]

yup

[round pendant]

But that doesn't go for every company, especially when you have MICROSOFT breathing down your neck

who are heavily incentivised to get AI in everywhere

and deluded into thinking AI is just purely good

have you seen microsofts git repos and the AI slop PRs?

with the devs arguing with the AI to produce the right code

instead of just writing it themselves

[waxen cradle]

Another issue is people are coming out of college with next to zero experience and a lot of companies want experience, but thats another discussion

[lusty grotto]

if you understand the contepts, in practice, you can use AI effectively

so thats good

whether you do it or not, well, thats up for your code reviews to decide etc

[round pendant]

And it's just chance that the quality of windows has plummeted in the last few years?

[lusty grotto]

id say its been about the same

[round pendant]

You're cooked

It's so so bad now compared to even w10

[lusty grotto]

i mean im not including the copilot push, thats obviously been bad

thats just nostalgia talking

[round pendant]

I don't have nostalgia for w10

[lusty grotto]

Windows has always had an x amount of issues, its never been perfect, it will never be linux

[round pendant]

I have nostalgia for windows 98 and XP

👴

[mighty valley]

bring me back to windows vista...

[solid sun]

I remember 95

[lusty grotto]

by nostalgia i meant recency bias

[round pendant]

Windows Explorer is somehow extremely slow now

their solution? preload it

icant

you can make it fast by fullscreening it twice really fast tho and it bricks the animations and runs fast again

[lusty grotto]

did you forget windows explorer used to be borderline unusable and you had to force restart it every couple of minutes in previous versions of windows?

[round pendant]

I've never had those issues personally

[lusty grotto]

look im not saying shit is better

im just saying its around the same

[round pendant]

I personally think you're a very "if it works" kind of person

[cunning oriole]

Disagree Nim, it's objectively getting worse

In part because we've been gradually accepting worse

[round pendant]

I peaced out of windows though like a year ago now

[lusty grotto]

that aint it, i think you guys are just biased against AI use. It is alarming in its own right, but you cant just blame everything on it

like i said

nobody likes the copilot push

i fucking dont

[round pendant]

I don't think it's a coincidence that windows started actively getting worse with every update after they said they were aiming to get more LLM use in their development

[waxen cradle]

Makes you ask if its getting worse or our idea of what we're willing to accept is getting worse rapidly

[cunning oriole]

Blizzard is a lowest common denominator company. Every story, every quest, every xpac design...it's all formulaic, designed to require the least amount of effort possible

[round pendant]

It's impossible to direct attribute as we don't have access to the the closed source side of windows

but it's curious how LLMs take off and all microsoft and microsoft subsidiaries products just get worse

AFTER they explicitly state their goal is to use as much ai code as possible

[cunning oriole]

And I don't dislike AI...I think it's an amazing tool. One that is being abused

[jagged pier]

no clankers

[round pendant]

fuck clankers

[jagged pier]

[round pendant]

riotge

[undone beacon]

My mechagnome warrior from lemix was named pashaclank

[round pendant]

the only clank I like is clank from ratchet and clank

and pash's gnome

[undone beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/alexuyutov-ratchet-clank-gif-8553334211315470035

[round pendant]

socute

[waxen cradle]

That's my point though why have a lot of people gotten to the point that they only want to put in the least amount of effort possible ? Why are people so content to not try hard or work hard at something to achieve that feeling of accomplishment

[round pendant]

Well

Shall I go into rant #4 of today about how capitalism is draining the soul from everybody and people do what's necessary to survive

[lusty grotto]

ai use is buzzwords, whether they say something or not, you should talk to software devs to see how they feel instead of relying on a CEO dropping a comment on its use. We have fully embraced it in the company ive worked for on the past decade, and when it comes to out products, they havent suffered at all.

[cunning oriole]

Because they want to live in little cubes and have the government take care of their every need. They've given up on pursuing excellence, at self improvement, at pushing their limits.

They just want to stay home and do nothing all day

[waxen cradle]

Yep agreed and that big

[lusty grotto]

the real drawback of AI is layoffs, and thats extremely bad in its own right - given proper use

but thats about it

[round pendant]

damn me and mahkarn were mostly on the same page until now

other than him liking ai

but that take is completely cooked

[solid sun]

There is a non zero amount of people who are simply lazy. I don’t necessarily believe that’s a large group of people, but there are certainly some

When it comes to “working hard” toward something, especially if the subject is wow

A lot of people just wanna relax when they game

That doesn’t make them lazy

[cunning oriole]

Lol sorry Yam, I'm ancient, imma pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps kinda guy

[solid sun]

It doesn’t mean they want the government to take care of them (lol)

[lusty grotto]

are you older than 40?

[round pendant]

People will pursue hobbies and passions when they don't feel like their wellbeing and lives are at stake. Most people rn are living on a razor's edge and desperate to do ANYTHING to get ahead and live a comfortable life. To get a well paying job you need to get a degree in ANYTHING. People are incentivised to go for ones that pay well once you get a job (CS in the US for example) even if they're not cut out for it or hate it, so they'll cheat (chatgpt) to make it easier.

[mighty valley]

it's funny that "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" started out as an idiom meaning to try and do something that's literally impossible

[round pendant]

It's a means to an end for a lot of people, not to say doing it for money is a bad thing

but you're not exactly gonna get the most passionate people for everything ever in everything

when the economy is completely cooked

Priorities and all that

[solid sun]

Y’know

[round pendant]

Class war class war riotge

https://klipy.com/gifs/peepo-peepo-riot

[tribal wharf]

there is a torch in that heretic game

[cunning oriole]

Desperate to do anything...except actually learn in school, or work two jobs, or live within their means

[tribal wharf]

to light the dark areas

[solid sun]

One reason I stopped trying hard in wow was simply because I’d try hard af and then enter a dungeon and get shit all over because maybe I made a mistake or maybe someone missed a few kicks or whatever and it feels like shit to invest a lot into something just to get shit all over by randoms

Maybe there’s just a lot of that in wow

[lusty grotto]

how old are you

are you 50+?

[tribal wharf]

im a little surprised wow or mmos havent done a bit of that where its you need a torch to explore a dark cave and be able to see things

[round pendant]

Jesus.

[lusty grotto]

40+?

[round pendant]

just work two jobs 4head

[tribal wharf]

i guess thats a bit of an old idea

[round pendant]

just don't buy that starbucks 4head

Where are all these jobs?

[lusty grotto]

cause im one of the 3 big ancients here, so we will welcome you into the club

if youre under 40 need not apply

[solid sun]

Who are the 3 big ancients

[lusty grotto]

yogi, sense, me

[cunning oriole]

OG Gen X

[lusty grotto]

so 40ish

welcome

[solid sun]

What about roid

I bet Roid is 40

[lusty grotto]

roid is getting up there

but last i heard he was still 30ish

[solid sun]

I just turned 39

I’m so close

[waxen cradle]

I do not think people will not work hard because in most cases they have no choice either work hard or fail themselves or in a more specific case there families. I just think that in many cases they are a bit too willing to take the easy way out or cheat to get ahead and it does show.

[lusty grotto]

soon (TM)

[tribal wharf]

you guys laugh about boomers playing wow

but even in tbc i would encounter old farts

[round pendant]

Life is all about incentives

[lusty grotto]

i mean wow grandma plays

isnt she like 90

[tribal wharf]

there was tons of grandpa wow player

[waxen cradle]

If that "cheating" harms only themselves so be it, if it harms someone else then it becomes a problem

[lusty grotto]

im talking about the streamer wow grandma yogi

[mighty valley]

it's crazy when people are inherently lazy. not me though

[round pendant]

There is simply no incentive to work hard and be passionate and potentially risk not being good enough when you can cheat and get the job anyway because everyone's just vibe coding at the end of the day

[solid sun]

I can’t believe we got a work two jobs take though

When talking about not working hard in wow

[lusty grotto]

this laziness conversation is so ridiculous

[round pendant]

It's one of the worst takes ever imagined

[solid sun]

Even my dad hates the idea of needing to work two jobs

[lusty grotto]

why would you NOT be lazy when CEOs earn 50 times your salary

[solid sun]

And if I’m old he’s super old

[round pendant]

Yeah nim that ties in to everything I was saying

maybe I'm a bit too wokey with it though for the boomers in here

[lusty grotto]

youre all talking like being lazy is so wrong

work smarter not harder is a thing

[mighty valley]

yam i'm in old man club and i'm on your team on this

[lusty grotto]

who gives a shit about someone being lazy

[solid sun]

I think there are times where laziness is definitely bad

[round pendant]

I never said that, I said it's normal and to be expected in the current state of the world

I don't judge the people doing it really

[undone beacon]

I step away for like 20 minutes how did we get here

[round pendant]

I judge the ones up top

[lusty grotto]

ok then we're on the same page

[mighty valley]

yeah, the fix to someone not giving a shit about something isn't to berate them into caring, it's to change the incentives to make what they're doing feel like it matters

[round pendant]

but that's on a large scale perspective

[lusty grotto]

💯

[dusky canopy]

I want to be lazy

That must be the life

[solid sun]

No you don’t

[round pendant]

The world is setup in a way that incentivises certain behaviours, or makes the "good" ones not viable (like pursuing arts is an easily understood one)

but I will still judge any individual who cheats and then tries to act like they're the real deal

[waxen cradle]

My main take stems from the usage of AI to get ahead where the person never truly learns as they don't put the effort in

[round pendant]

if they say to me "I used AI to cheat because I really need a degree and a job or me and my family starves"

I will be like

Yeah, that makes sense good luck brother

[lusty grotto]

they are incentivized to cheat in the current systems of eductation

[waxen cradle]

But as long as I am not dependent on the person who used AI to get ahead and actually knows nothing I couldn't care less what they do.