I've rarely ever flamed anybody on wow 
#protection
round pendant
drowsy comet
i just remember.. when I asked in the wow sub reddit, for some device as a tank, so overall I got many really helpful tips, then there was someone saying that if you get harrassed too much and get mad - deplete the key, so the DPS has to look again for a key for 20 mins 
No way this works tho
toxic pewter
we need toget back to a simpler time where its always the healers fault 
grizzled nova
we need toget back to a simpler time where its always the healers fault <:sadge:...
Honestly it is a lot of the time.
unreal yarrow
My advice is never take advice from reddit
grizzled nova
Reason number 1 for bopping keys is overlapping kicks or cc, reason number 2 is just that healer can't pass the heal check.
solid sun
Or dps can’t kill things fast enough
unreal yarrow
I think butt pulls outnumbers healers failing checks
grizzled nova
Or dps can’t kill things fast enough
Sometimes it is that too, but that generally stops being a problem at higher keys.
grizzled nova
I dunno, around 18 you're generally not getting people with terminally bad DPS, sometimes their defensive use is bad and stresses the healer, but usually it's just that the healer mistimed a ramp or failed to ramp into a mechanic and someone gets clipped by the check.
coarse bay
There’s def bad dps even above 18s, but a lot of problems come from the comp, people suck at building comps if they cant copy meta
Its like people dont know damage profiles
drowsy comet
i know this channel is for prot warrior (meant) tho, I need to say im watching Naowh on Twitch rn him playing Brewmaster on the Beta, pulling looks pretty cool. Ugh I think i need to level one when teh event comes up 
solid sun
Yeah like nobody wants to help out my surv hunter what the heck
drowsy comet
There’s def bad dps even above 18s, but a lot of problems come from the comp, pe...
At what point does "meta" really matter tho? Like above 18s? or 20s? no idea honestly tho I am curious
coarse bay
At what point does "meta" really matter tho? Like above 18s? or 20s? no idea hon...
Above title in some cases, just below for others
Like some healers really struggle on heal checks
grizzled nova
At what point does "meta" really matter tho? Like above 18s? or 20s? no idea hon...
It doesn't matter unless you're pugging.
drowsy comet
coarse bay
You CAN get title on anything. But it’s incredibly difficult
grizzled nova
Meta is useful in pugging because everyone knows better what to expect without comms, so people stick to meta comps.
drowsy comet
sigh guess imma level a Brewmaster then
unreal yarrow
If your goal is 2.5k anything is fine.
coarse bay
I mean meta is built how it is for a reason. The damage profiles are generally perfect for the routing. When everyone’s copying the routes of top keys, it causes problems if you dont have similar profiles
unreal yarrow
Off-meta tanks can get groups no problem up to at least 15's
grizzled nova
If you're just playing the game at a remotely competent level you can pug to 15s by just signing up for keys and pressing your rotation in a mostly correct order.
solid sun
Does “free” here mean you can play anything or it’s easy
coarse bay
Like a lot of non “meta” specs that hit title were plugged into a comp that was meta for the rest of the slots
grizzled nova
Does “free” here mean you can play anything or it’s easy
Both
solid sun
Because I wouldn’t say 3k is easy
drowsy comet
3k is free, for that matter.
as a first time tanker tho, I dont wanna over stress myself into believing I have to get Rank 1 or so lol
coarse bay
Because I wouldn’t say 3k is easy
3k for some people is 1-2 days on a tank from previous season gear
solid sun
I don’t think there’s limitations of what’s easy is “it’s rank 1”
I also don’t think what certain good players are capable of determine what’s easy
drowsy comet
3k ain't even close to rank 1 lol
no i meant as a goal, in that matter
warm plinth
The only pressure to get a certain score is purely self-imposed. Just play the game and if you want to try to go higher, then try to go higher. But no one is making you.
solid sun
I always get 3k and I’m not particularly good, but even at 3k that’s more than what most people do in m+
grizzled nova
I also don’t think what certain good players are capable of determine what’s eas...
I can understand the psychological win of hitting 3k for the first time, but once you get there you realize that it isn't mechanically challenging to do so, and that mostly psychological concerns were holding you back from doing it in the first place.
unreal yarrow
Most people aren't in a class discord trying to improve
coarse bay
I always get 3k and I’m not particularly good, but even at 3k that’s more than w...
Ya i think thats mostly a playtime thing and what people care about in the game. People just dont care about m+
grizzled nova
Sure, that's fair.
coarse bay
I dont care about m+ enough to push title, because it becomes another job, but i still play far more than the average player
grizzled nova
But if you actually want to do m+ and actively pursue it with your time, getting 3k is not hard.
waxen cradle
Well I think people care about M+ but only to the point of where there time put into it is justified but what they think is a adequate reward
coarse bay
I mean, im not gonna call it easy just because it’s easy for us
solid sun
I think what I’m trying to say is
We need to consider that there are a lot of people who play wow and for a lot of them, heroic raid is difficult
waxen cradle
In example some may see the reward for 2.5k as a adequate reward and stop there because they dont want to invest anymore time beyond that
solid sun
7-10 is scary and hard
Difficulty is pretty subjective or nebulous in what it even means
coarse bay
We need to consider that there are a lot of people who play wow and for a lot of...
This, aotc is not a common achievement compared to the vast playerbase
solid sun
I’m sure Cammy is vastly superior to me as a wow player
What they find easy I may pull my hair out trying to do
coarse bay
No sir
waxen cradle
Some may put enough effort and time into M+ to hit 3k and say ok I am done there. It all comes down to a player to player basis and it's impossible to quantify
coarse bay
Ya ill try to push people further but ill never call their achievements easy
grizzled nova
Some may put enough effort and time into M+ to hit 3k and say ok I am done there...
I mean 3k is just all 12s, and 12s are basically the equivalent of doing algebra.
Sure some people are bad at math, but your average human can learn the rules and perform the arthmetic to arrive at the answer with a small amount of time investment.
waxen cradle
True I am just stating how people would likely view reward versus investment, and my statement can be elaborated on significantly because people view reward versus investment differently on a case by case basis.
coarse bay
I think a lot of people are just not that good at games
Because i dont think everyone cares about improving at gaming
Theyre there for fun
Not a mindset i can understand personally
But it is what it is
coarse bay
In example some may see the reward for 2.5k as a adequate reward and stop there ...
Pretty much this
In every game
Or anything in life
solid sun
Well I mean
I got my friends aotc this past season and when we did normal everything was fine
waxen cradle
It really does come down to how do you quantify the human perspective as a whole when it comes down to reward versus any level of time invested in general. The answer is... if your trying to calculate it on a person to person or case by case basis it simply can't be done as that is part of the human condition.
solid sun
Bumped it up to heroic and on the big robot dude just navigating the obstacle course proved very difficult for some of them
So is it an easy boss or a hard boss
Or on the other side of the spectrum, most people I know take ages to defeat a dark souls game but then some dudes are out here doing no armor no hit runs
grizzled nova
It really does come down to how do you quantify the human perspective as a whole...
I just think this is borderline pedantic philosophical about it.
waxen cradle
In some ways yes it is, but it's a fair assumption or theory
grizzled nova
For your person of average human learning capacity, it is not a difficult ask to make 3k if you apply yourself to keys.
coarse bay
The % of the playerbase getting 3k, or even the % that even touch m+ kinda begs too differ
waxen cradle
Yes I would agree completely, but how easy is it to apply that that theory to the whole
Is my point
coarse bay
Easy to some people is heroic dungeons, they want to come home and do something completely trivial
grizzled nova
The % of the playerbase getting 3k, or even the % that even touch m+ kinda begs ...
Not wanting to put the time into it and not being capable of achieving the mechanical task are very different things.
coarse bay
I dont think time is the only factor
toxic pewter
I got 3k for like many seasons in a row then this last season igot 2500 bleh.. just got lazy
grizzled nova
If the question is "is getting 3k hard?" the answer is no.
Not everyone will want to put the time in to learn to dungeons or run the keys up to that point.
But it isn't hard to do, if you want to.
toxic pewter
what was last seasons 3k mount anyway
solid sun
I don’t think it’s as cut and dried as that at all
waxen cradle
Yes but not wanting to put the time into it essentially goes hand in hand with being capable of doing it because time is one of the ultimate investments.
coarse bay
It isnt hard or easy
solid sun
Maybe one of the reasons hitting 3k isn’t worth it is because it’ll take too long for them to do it or because they’d get carried and feel cheap about it
Which would indicate for them it’d be a difficult challenge
coarse bay
Id imagine a lot of gamers have time for 1-2 dungeons a day at the very most, some not even every day
waxen cradle
In example if you remove time from the equation then eventually anyone could achieve anything but it's how they value the amount of time they are willing to invest versus what they get for there time that I am debating
grizzled nova
I don’t think it’s as cut and dried as that at all
Again, I'd compare it to algebra - not everyone knows all the rules or how to perform them, but the average human brain, if forced into it, is perfectly capable learning and performing algebra. It isn't hard to do.
coarse bay
I dont think people in a class discord should set the standard for what’s difficult
solid sun
But I know people who struggled all the way through math classes
Absolutely hated every minute of it and did poorly on tests
I don’t think algebra can just be unilaterally declared as easy
waxen cradle
@coarse bay lmao that may be true
round pendant
I don’t think algebra can just be unilaterally declared as easy
It really can
grizzled nova
I don’t think algebra can just be unilaterally declared as easy
I think it's pedantic af to argue the point, the overwhelming majority of people can be taught algebra.
That some outliers struggle doesn't negate that point.
solid sun
I think it’s moreso that “easy” and “hard” are useless descriptors that are subjective and mean nothing
coarse bay
Youre talking about people being capable if forced into putting enough time to learn and improve, but that can be the difficulty for some
Like its just elitist af to shit on peoples achievements by calling it ez
drowsy comet
bruh Naowh is really putting his ElvUI profile behind a twitch/patreon sub lmao
undone beacon
I just woke up what’s going on why are people arguing about semantics again in prot discord
round pendant
I can't believe me and rhino wrote that at the same time
coarse bay
bruh Naowh is really putting his ElvUI profile behind a twitch/patreon sub lmao
All streamers have done this forever
undone beacon
Luxthos my beloved
solid sun
I can't believe me and rhino wrote that at the same time
Are we two sides of the same coin
round pendant
Like its just elitist af to shit on peoples achievements by calling it ez
An achievement can be big for you but also not very difficult, both can be true and it's not elitist to say "most people can get 3k if they put in the effort to practice"
waxen cradle
It can be taught but, and should be in no way viewed as "hard" but we all know people who struggled and my whole debate centered itself on a person by person basis, or a case by case basis. There are factors that negate being able to simply label something as arbitrarily easy or hard. It simply comes down to each persons perspective.
drowsy comet
That was quazii’s uno reverse card
the funny thing is tho, its just his elvui profile and some addons, thats basically it xD
round pendant
Pretending that people are incapable of doing it because of anything other than they just don't want to is just cope
coarse bay
An achievement can be big for you but also not very difficult, both can be true ...
I just dont think the top 10% of players or whatever should be setting the standard for whats hard
solid sun
I think you’re vastly underestimating how bad some people are
grizzled nova
I just dont think the top 10% of players or whatever should be setting the stand...
I think this is a misuse of a statistic to make a point.
round pendant
But I'll get called elitist for it
grizzled nova
That most people find no value in pushing to 3k doesn't mean pushing to 3k is hard.
coarse bay
I think this is a misuse of a statistic to make a point.
Isnt 3k like 10% now?
And probably a ton of alts
round pendant
People are bad because they don't practice and don't try to learn. If they're not interested then that's fine but they shouldn't be included in figuring out whether or not something is hard
coarse bay
And id argue that a lot of people that got 3k, it was hard for them. When they added the 3k mounts those keys were hell
solid sun
It’s elitist to claim something is easy just because you think it’s easy. It isn’t elitist to realize a ton of people aren’t good at wow and have no interest in becoming good
coarse bay
People are bad because they don't practice and don't try to learn. If they're no...
My thing is that hard and easy, if we try to make the broad claim, should be based on the average
coarse bay
It’s elitist to claim something is easy just because you think it’s easy. It isn...
This
grizzled nova
It’s elitist to claim something is easy just because you think it’s easy. It isn...
It is not elitist to make normative comparisons about things humans are capable of.
round pendant
That's not elitism
grizzled nova
You guys are just doing pure sophist radical skepticism.
waxen cradle
@grizzled nova I absolutely agree its not hard per say, but they just see the investment deem it not worth there time based off of the level of reward for that time and determine more time to not be a worthy investment.
round pendant
"anyone can do it if they put their mind to it" isn't elitist, it's just saying the content isn't trivial but very few people are incapable of doing it
grizzled nova
1 pullup might be an achievement for some people - that's good, and an important step to fitness, but that doesn't mean that it's hard for a human to do.
solid sun
We did big robot on heroic like a hundred times and we still had people dying to the obstacle course almost everytime
I don’t think the obstacle course is hard but obviously they did
coarse bay
"anyone can do it if they put their mind to it" isn't elitist, it's just saying ...
I think ive seen many people incapable
grizzled nova
Learning hot cross buns on the piano might be an achievement for some people - that's good, and an important step to musical talent, but that doesn't mean it's hard for a human to do.
drowsy comet
ofc people defend this.. smh
waxen cradle
Yeah the level of difficulty is not what I am debating though
lusty grotto
i detect gatekeeping 101
round pendant
None of this is gatekeeping wtf
lusty grotto
why are you guys so threatened about things becoming easier, really
drowsy comet
round pendant
What reality do you live in where saying "anyone can do it" is gatekeeping?
waxen cradle
ragebait detected...going to DEFCON 4
lusty grotto
i dont know what youre refering to
coarse bay
Argument about wether or not 3k is objectively easy
drowsy comet
round pendant
why are you guys so threatened about things becoming easier, really
Easier is boring for me 🤷♂️
drowsy comet
oh does anyone know if Plater works fine now?
waxen cradle
I'm using Platynator, its not Plater but meh
lusty grotto
its kinda weird thing to say based on watching keys on a stream
what if
mechanics become harder
with time
and even it all out?
drowsy comet
I'm using Platynator, its not Plater but meh
yea i am too but only because plater had some problems it seems, thats why im asking cuz I really wanna get to Plater, i love the nameplates there more tbh
grizzled nova
and even it all out?
What if I think sacrificing the speed and complexity of class gameplay for a what if is a bad trade?
lusty grotto
then thats a you problem
coarse bay
As if we had complexity
grizzled nova
then thats a you problem
Oh so you didn't actually have a point.
lusty grotto
i just think its weird that we're still yapping about this 4 hours later
waxen cradle
What if I win the lottery... peace and hair grease my dudes is what
lusty grotto
oh i made my point
coarse bay
I think the 3k thing was different? Idk
round pendant
Well we were talking about something else entirely
You just came back and didn't like the vibes and assumed it was about the same thing lol
coarse bay
I jumped in at random too so idk where it started
waxen cradle
It's prepatch and we are bored... we can't help it
lusty grotto
it is inherently about the same thing, you guys are effectively mad about how the game is moving
same old as literally any loud minority
grizzled nova
it is inherently about the same thing, you guys are effectively mad about how th...
We moved on to a different topic entirely.
lusty grotto
l2read
it is inherently about the same thing,
you guys are effectively mad about how the game is moving
grizzled nova
What does 3k being an easily achievable goal have to do with addons and class changes?
round pendant
What does 3k being an easily achievable goal have to do with addons and class ch...
I guess that it's an argument against making the game easier because it's already easy in our eyes
coarse bay
Idk who that is, is this zoomer speak
round pendant
Therefore elitist
waxen cradle
No not zoomer speak
coarse bay
Claiming that it is easy for everyone is an objective statement
It’s easy for some people
But not for everyone, in some way shape or form
lusty grotto
just ignoring the numbers for 3k speaks volumes
grizzled nova
Claiming that it is easy for everyone is an objective statement
Easy is a normative statement, easy for everyone is an objective statement, I'm naking a normative argument.
Running a 10 minute mile is easy for humans to do.
Can everyone run a 10 minute mile? No.
coarse bay
Man this is too much for a video game lmao
lusty grotto
thats some impressive mental gymnastics
grizzled nova
thats some impressive mental gymnastics
Impressive as in extremely basic I paid attention in high school philosophy? Yeah sure
round pendant
What numbers for 3k? What about the fact all the key levels involved have like 80-90% success rates
lusty grotto
i like how we're comparing video games to yogging
coarse bay
What numbers for 3k? What about the fact all the key levels involved have like 8...
They dont count leaving
Only expired completions
lusty grotto
Impressive as in extremely basic I paid attention in high school philosophy? Yea...
you really like this pseudo intellectualist RP you're doing 90% of the time, dont you?
like cam said, its just a game
grizzled nova
you really like this pseudo intellectualist RP you're doing 90% of the time, don...
You're just like every other asshole with a shitty argument that gets back into a corner.
Start arguing about pseudo intellectualism because you can't defend your point.
Very cool.
lusty grotto
i mean we're just trading ad hominems
coarse bay
Came here for Prot info...nice to see it’s the same old slop as all of the internet...ie, ignorance thinking it is educated.
lusty grotto
i did defend my point, you just simply ignored it
round pendant
They dont count leaving
That's true but leaves are still a minority, the keys are still overwhelmingly timed than bricked
undone beacon
Came here for Prot info...nice to see it’s the same old slop as all of the inter...
fuck you i was just about to post this but i was catching up on the thrilling discourse
lusty grotto
if you ignore what i was saying and just argue semantics, thats just pseudo intelectualist bullshit
coarse bay
Idk my pov is more of being nice. Im not gonna call 3k easy for everyone because for some people its an achievement, and some people cant do it.
Idk about all this philosophical shit
lusty grotto
if you think youre so right that are incapable of seeing the other point
round pendant
Hypocrisy kinda thick here nim
waxen cradle
Ok girls your both pretty, lets hug it out and no ass grabbing
lusty grotto
Hypocrisy kinda thick here nim
youre reflecting
grizzled nova
if you think youre so right that are incapable of seeing the other point
The whole point of argument is assuming that your point is both sound and valid and meting out whether the conclusions are more representative of reality than a differing argument.
You're a child looking for right and wrong.
round pendant
He gave a comparison and you dismissed it as mental gymnastics even tho it's pretty fair lmao
solid sun
Not really
lusty grotto
i like how we're comparing video games to yogging
solid sun
Difficulty is inherently subjective
coarse bay
I dont think we should be comparing a game achievement to human physical capabilities
round pendant
Yes how does it being a videogame have anything to do with whether or not people can complete the task?
lusty grotto
its not a fair comparison at all, because there's no difficulty in running outside of disabilities
round pendant
Huh?
grizzled nova
Difficulty is inherently subjective
You're right I guess we can never make normative arguments about difficulty for anything ever again because difficulty is subjective for every individual human therefore all normative conclusions are invalid.
solid sun
I agree we shouldn’t use it
coarse bay
Theres more factors to difficulty than capability, and its different for everyone
solid sun
I’m glad we agree
coarse bay
Because everyone CAN do it doesnt make it easy
round pendant
Difficulty is inherently subjective
You can still make statements like "most people learn X within Y time" and use that as a measuring stick. Almost like it's not entirely subjective
lusty grotto
You're a child looking for right and wrong.
and youre just spewing semantic rhetoric on a "videogame difficulty" conversation
so whats new
solid sun
It’s subjective, Yam
waxen cradle
solid sun
Idk what else to tell you
grizzled nova
its not a fair comparison at all, because there's no difficulty in running outsi...
Exactly - I'd wager that the vast majority of people on earth, say 90%, probably can't right of this moment run a 10 minute mile - but if they put a little effort into practicing running, nearly all of them could get there.
coarse bay
Does that make it easy?
grizzled nova
I wonder if there's a word we could ascribe to the phenomenon of most humans being able to do something if they put effort into it.
round pendant
Well it's more conditioning their body but yeah
lusty grotto
go on
round pendant
You can argue getting good at wow is conditioning your brain
lusty grotto
is your point gonna be centered around "if they put a little effort into practicing?"
go on thukker
coarse bay
Ok now u lost me
lusty grotto
say it
coarse bay
I thought this was it being easy, now youre saying with practice it can be done
lusty grotto
say the gatekeeping thing
round pendant
and youre just spewing semantic rhetoric on a "videogame difficulty" conversatio...
Semantics are important when you keep missing the point I think
How exactly is it gatekeeping to say "most people can do this with a bit of practice" again?
I don't get that argument
grizzled nova
I thought this was it being easy, now youre saying with practice it can be done
If easy means never practicing anything, then literally nothing is easy, the word easy doesn't exist, conception has never preceeded experience literally ever in the history of humanity.
round pendant
Okay but explain how it's gatekeeping to say people CAN do a thing lmao
undone beacon
This seems more like people are talking about attainability and not ease. Ease is a descriptor of attainability. If you can attain something with minimal effort output, then it is easy. If someone has to condition and train to get something, its still attainable, but at a different level of ease. People are so weirdly wrapped up with the ease portion. 3k, 10 minute miles, CE, AotC, whatever it is is all ATTAINABLE, but for each person the level of ease at which they can achieve it varies
coarse bay
This seems more like people are talking about attainability and not ease. Ease i...
This
coarse bay
Okay but explain how it's gatekeeping to say people CAN do a thing lmao
He said easy to do, not can do at first
It changed
grizzled nova
He said easy to do, not can do at first
Why do you get to define easy as can do at first, but my definition of "nearly all humans are capable of this" is invalid?
lusty grotto
ty Pash
coarse bay
Why do you get to define easy as can do at first, but my definition of "nearly a...
Because people dont play games that way, at least not all
waxen cradle
This seems more like people are talking about attainability and not ease. Ease i...
Agreed completely
coarse bay
Maybe everyone in the world can get ce, doesnt make it easy
grizzled nova
Because people dont play games that way, at least not all
"At first" is equally invalid - gamers come in all sizes of experience, and what might immediately obvious to some because of prior experience will take work for another.
coarse bay
What is easy and hard is different for everyone. Maybe its hard to get time to play
grizzled nova
If you want to make a definition of "easy" that isn't normative it will be an infinitely regressive argument.
coarse bay
"At first" is equally invalid - gamers come in all sizes of experience, and what...
What?
lusty grotto
semantics again
grizzled nova
semantics again
The whole argument is the semantic meaning of the word "easy" thank for you finally getting on board.
coarse bay
I agree that probably anyone CAN do it. I dont think that makes it easy
For many possible reasons
solid sun
I think pash already laid it out pretty well
grizzled nova
I agree that probably anyone CAN do it. I dont think that makes it easy
I disagree.
lusty grotto
I think pash already laid it out pretty well
yeah
wide fulcrum
We're prot warriors. The only thing "hard" is choosing the right shoulder mog.
coarse bay
Pash won, ggs
round pendant
This seems more like people are talking about attainability and not ease. Ease i...
Yes some people find stuff easier or harder than others, but if something is attainable by the vast majority of people then it's hard to reason that it's very difficult objectively (and the conversation is about an objective measure)
It's not entirely subjective
waxen cradle
My whole debate centered itself 100% around the human perspective on a case by case or person by person basis of what they determine is a worthwhile investment of there time and what they deem is a adequate reward for there time invested. That has nothing to do with how "easy" or "hard" something is. It does put in focus what each player determines is worth investing time into, but in no way questions what they can achieve.
coarse bay
Im not arguing 3k is hard, im saying it isnt necessarily easy
solid sun
I’d even argue it isn’t particularly helpful to try to “objectively measure”
lusty grotto
My whole debate centered itself 100% around the human perspective on a case by c...
time investment is certainly something that's flying over this whole conversation, i can agree to that
solid sun
If anything it’d be a negative
coarse bay
To some people easy means no difficulty
round pendant
You can measure the average practice (hours invested or whatever metric you want) to attain a certain thing and come to some objective measurement of how hard it is. It just has no bearing on how hard it FEELS for any given person
coarse bay
You can measure the average practice (hours invested or whatever metric you want...
But at that point what makes it easy? 10-20 hours?
round pendant
How is this not an objective measure of difficulty?
coarse bay
Maybe getting time to play is hard
waxen cradle
My statement does debate what motivates people to pursue any achievement in WoW. Now THAT is a hugely broad statement because you could apply that to real life also, but I am not interested in broadening the topic beyond what would motivate someone to seek WoW achievements beyond the amount of time they are willing to invest.
coarse bay
Capability of a task isnt the only measurement of difficulty
round pendant
People will find learning their ABCs easier than learning to read a book. Is that not objective?
limpid ruin
@plush tendon 
round pendant
My point is that it's clearly possible to objectively measure difficulty
undone beacon
You can objectively measure ATTAINABILITY, whereas EASE is going to be a subjective measure. Don't try to roll the two concepts into one, thats reductive
grizzled nova
This seems more like people are talking about attainability and not ease. Ease i...
I would agree that the level of ease varies, but claiming that we can't make normative statements about ease because some people find a specific task hard is a shit argument, because that argument is making the preposterous claim that all normative comparisons are meaningless.
coarse bay
You can objectively measure ATTAINABILITY, whereas EASE is going to be a subject...
This
undone beacon
I would agree that the level of ease varies, but claiming that we can't make nor...
I think you're getting way into the weeds about this ngl
solid sun
People will find learning their ABCs easier than learning to read a book. Is tha...
You’re comparing ease of two different tasks (learning abc’s vs learning to read) and how easy a single task is to different people
coarse bay
100% of people can do something and it not be easy
grizzled nova
100% of people can do something and it not be easy
See now this is semantics.
grizzled nova
Not really
I don't mean it in a negative way, I mean it in the way that we're gonna fundamentally disagree about what the word easy means and just argue past each other.
grizzled nova
You changed the whole thing from easy to humans are capable
You're arbitrarily deciding that your definition of easy is better than mine and that my supporting arguments don't count.
coarse bay
I don't mean it in a negative way, I mean it in the way that we're gonna fundame...
True, i think that difficulty measurements are subjective
wide fulcrum
Put a warrior in as main healer. Shoots the whole debate down😅
coarse bay
Put a warrior in as main healer. Shoots the whole debate down😅
Real
round pendant
It's wild how we can come to the conclusion that we're talking about attainability and then still keep saying "difficulty is subjective" to dodge the whole point
coarse bay
It's wild how we can come to the conclusion that we're talking about attainabili...
It didnt start at attainability though
round pendant
Well I certainly understood what he meant from the start
grizzled nova
I think that attainability is subjective, what is attainable for one person may be unattainable for others because they don't have the time or something.
round pendant
I feel like there's a whole lot of pedantry going on here
grizzled nova
I agree.
lusty grotto
yes, there is
coarse bay
It started with him saying 3k was easy, and we said it isnt easy for everyone
undone beacon
I think that attainability is subjective, what is attainable for one person may ...
Wait but I thought everything was attainable with the right training and conditioning
I think you're swapping ease and attainability now but, we can call it pedantry
grizzled nova
Wait but I thought everything was attainable with the right training and conditi...
My statement was sarcastic, I was making the argument that ease and attainability can be interchangeably slotted into everyone's argument here.
undone beacon
My statement was sarcastic, I was making the argument that ease and attainabilit...
oh. We don't do sarcasm here. Mods break his kneecaps
round pendant
I mean here's something interesting
Is something less attainable because it takes more time?
You'd have to separate the groups of people who have the time and those who don't
coarse bay
My statement was sarcastic, I was making the argument that ease and attainabilit...
If u started with attainable it wouldnt have ended up like this
grizzled nova
Semantics
round pendant
Within the group of people who have the time, is getting 3k a reasonably attainable thing for most of them?
I'd say yes
lusty grotto
thats why i said the time invesment is flying over this whole conversation
coarse bay
Maybe? Not everyone with the time cares
coarse bay
Time itself can be a measure of ease
That’s why i said that difficulty isnt objective
round pendant
I've argued this before back when I said 3k being top 10% doesn't mean 3k players are objectively good at wow
lusty grotto
right
round pendant
But I got called elitist for that lmao
lusty grotto
that goes back to normative statements
which is incredibly reductive
you cant just wrap yourself in a bubble in an MMO
undone beacon
Attainability is a binary condition (you either attain something or you don't), ease is a measure of the process of reaching an outcome regarding attainability
grizzled nova
practice takes time
Sure but we can still make normative statements. Most humans can be taught to play hot cross buns on the piano within a month. Vanishingly few humans will ever play Clair De Lune even with infinite time.
Using this information, we can make normative statements about things humans can do.
Playing hot cross buns is easy, for instance.
coarse bay
But I got called elitist for that lmao
I dont mean elitist in a negative way personally, i just dont think that the top % of the playerbase should be judging these things
grizzled nova
I picked a harder piece people would recognize, saying the transcendental etude mezappa would have been pedantic lol
coarse bay
But I got called elitist for that lmao
Im sorry for using elitist
lusty grotto
i dont even know what clair de lune is
coarse bay
Playing hot cross buns is easy, for instance.
Not for me, its hard for me
round pendant
Im sorry for using elitist <:sadge:820202363359854633>
Nah not you this was ages ago
wide fulcrum
i dont even know what clair de lune is
Nobody does, he's trying to assert superiority from a reel he watched last week
round pendant
I think it was rhino that called me elitist back then
grizzled nova
Not for me, its hard for me
Hard for you is not a normative statement.
coarse bay
Nah not you this was ages ago
I did say earlier that what was being said was pretty elitist
grizzled nova
Nobody does, he's trying to assert superiority from a reel he watched last week
Yes one of the most famous piano pieces of all human history is me "asserting superiority"
jfc
round pendant
Everyone knows Clair de lune, maybe not by name tho
coarse bay
Man im sorry but im not here for psychology. I just said that ease is subjective and 3k isnt easy for everyone
Thats my opinion
lusty grotto
👏
waxen cradle
If you have a musical background you would recognize it and I do myself have a musical background so I know it by name
coarse bay
I respect everyone’s opinion here
undone beacon
It was attainable to recognize the music, some people attained that goal some people didn't, their musical background was a factor of ease for attaining that goal
wide fulcrum
Yes one of the most famous piano pieces of all human history is me "asserting su...
Nope the transcendental etudr mesappa does.
undone beacon
Anyways, I came here for Prot info...nice to see it’s the same old slop as all of the internet...ie, ignorance thinking it is educated.
lusty grotto
what about the majestic hakuna matata though?
waxen cradle
lmao
lusty grotto
now thats a banger
wide fulcrum
what about the majestic hakuna matata though?
Only in sharp B
lusty grotto
oh shit
waxen cradle
You mean B Sharp get the lingo right 😛
undone beacon
I wish Kanga was here i want her opinion on this
wide fulcrum
You mean B Sharp get the lingo right 😛
I'm a warrior and haven't been passed the brain cell for a few minutes 😪
round pendant
It was attainable to recognize the music, some people attained that goal some pe...
So someone's practiced skills affects attainability? So doesn't it stand to reason that the statement "3k is attainable with a reasonable amount of practice for the vast majority of people" is a fair statement?
waxen cradle
I'm a warrior and haven't been passed the brain cell for a few minutes 😪
lmao
round pendant
And you could argue that means it's not too hard if your idea of hard is "most people can't do it"
That's where subjectivity comes in
Btw I hate autocomplete
coarse bay
That wasnt the original statement, he said easy, and is claiming it’s objectively easy.
I have a hard time going to work every day
round pendant
I mean I'd agree with that statement but only cause I see that he's getting at the fact that most people could do it with a bit of practice, not that everyone would find it trivial
waxen cradle
Ok calling it now no more using the word in "easy" in here... its starts innocent enough and devolves into a 5 hour conversation.
round pendant
This is the most activity we've had in weeks!
grizzled nova
That wasnt the original statement, he said easy, and is claiming it’s objectivel...
You and I are disagreeing about the normative definition of easy - I think you're making what amounts to a sophists' interpretation of the word and has not useful defintion because it infinitely regresses to nonsense if you try to couch "ease" as valid for literally every individual.
coarse bay
In my opinion, i find that it could be belittling of people’s achievements by calling something objectively easy
And that’s why i said what i said
There’s no science behind it
undone beacon
So someone's practiced skills affects attainability? So doesn't it stand to reas...
I never said that wasn't a fair statement, though saying things like "reasonable for the vast majority" introduces subjectivity into the statement by default but, yeah the concept is the same. What is reasonable practice is going to vary in difficulty for individuals. What is "reasonable for the vast majority" is going to vary, but yeah 3k is attainable with practice for WoW players
round pendant
My advice to thukker is to not use big words in discord servers
undone beacon
"3k is easy" and "3k is attainable by most of the playerbase" are two fundamentally different statements imo
grizzled nova
Again, I disagree.
coarse bay
And i respect your opinion on it
grizzled nova
Those a fundamentally the same thing, if we're going to try and achieve any useful definition of the word "easy."
coarse bay
We’re all here sharing our opinions
grizzled nova
Easy = achievable by most.
undone beacon
But we're not trying to achieve a definition of the word easy?
grizzled nova
Trying to make easy inherently subjective means inherently meaningless otherwise.
coarse bay
Claiming to be able to objectively decide these things is bold
grizzled nova
Again, it is easy for humans to run a 10 minute mile. It is not easy for every individual human to run a 10 minute mile.
undone beacon
Yes thats literally what im saying
Its attainable but not easy for everyone
jfc
Theres no reason to argue circles for the sake of arguing
grizzled nova
How many times do I have to say that I'm making a normative argument, both the statements I made are true, but the word easy is being used in a different context.
Cam is trying to force it into the second statement and say the first is invalid.
coarse bay
Theres no reason to argue circles for the sake of arguing
Ive been entertained, i hope no one has taken this exchange personal 
grizzled nova
Which is not true.
coarse bay
What do you mean? Im defending my original point, to your original statement
grizzled nova
It is easy for a wow player to attain 3k rating in m+. It is not easy for every individual wow player to attain 3k rating.
coarse bay
I dont think 3k is easy for everyone and it isnt fair to make that judgement
Just dont use the word easy
grizzled nova
Fuck off lmao
undone beacon
lmfao
coarse bay
undone beacon
We've reached the zenith of this conversation, the simple and argumentativly sound "fuck off lmao"
You lost Cam sorry
coarse bay
The same argument youre making could be used for everything in the game
round pendant
fuck off lmao is a great response tbf
coarse bay
I did lose
waxen cradle
undone beacon
Tail between your fuckin legs
coarse bay
lusty grotto
im with you cam
wide fulcrum
Again, it is easy for humans to run a 10 minute mile. It is not easy for every i...
Then it's subjective. Someone that is paralyzed makes it impossible to run a mile, but they're still human.
undone beacon
Really we all just came here for Prot info...nice to see it’s the same old slop as all of the internet...ie, ignorance thinking it is educated.
round pendant
I think people are just arguing on two different ideas of what 'easy' is
limpid ruin
For the record I’m bringing this back tomorrow 
round pendant
I understood what thukker meant simply because arguing over subjective experiences of how hard something is for one individual person who isn't you is silly
but if something is generally doable by most people I think that's fair to call it easy
or at least not hard
coarse bay
Idk if most people can do it so i wont make the claim
undone beacon
Stop stop stop we're done can we leave this and go back to restful slumber
lusty grotto
"most people"
undone beacon
We're just going to go back in circles
round pendant
ofc the bear wants to slumber
undone beacon
The cycle repeats anew
round pendant
I'm just saying there's two different 'easy's there
It's important to know which one the person means
worldly zenith
good lord, everyone just yapping today.
round pendant
yapping is easy for me
coarse bay
I have more to say but like u said its just looping
undone beacon
good lord, everyone just yapping today.
BigTime what is your opinion on the subjectivity of ease vs attainability
worldly zenith
your mom
coarse bay
Oh shit
undone beacon
fuck
coarse bay
Right back to the bear discord
toxic pewter
u know its good times when the 'ur mom' comes out
undone beacon
Thats the only one I'll listen to
undone beacon
is 3k io easy
grizzled nova
Then it's subjective. Someone that is paralyzed makes it impossible to run a mi...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk8M13ptQqc berezovsky does it best
grizzled nova
he's kinda a piece of shit, but if you can separate art and artist no one does the piece better
toxic pewter
I can think of
coarse bay
Thank you
toxic pewter
one mans easy is another mans hard as they say if u no wat i mean GIGGITY
solid sun
That I am correct on
undone beacon
Wait I have more to say
Too late apb ended it
lusty grotto
"most people" btw, and KSM is 2k rating
coarse bay
one mans easy is another mans hard as they say if u no wat i mean GIGGITY
Giggity
wide fulcrum
That I am correct on
Get married, it will end that straight away 😆
grizzled nova
Yes.
undone beacon
Y'all got no respect for Skyhold's official feelycrafter smh
lusty grotto
you guys like being reductive
and without the lower end, your achievements effectively mean nothing
round pendant
Who's arguing that they mean anything?
In fact I often downplay my own achievements (Not that I have many) because of this reasoning
So you're right, they do mean nothing
waxen cradle
I think they mean you don't float well
lusty grotto
i posted that because you said "most people"
waxen cradle
lmao
grizzled nova
dense how
Whether or not people have done something is in no way an indicator of whether they have the ability to do something.
round pendant
yeah, that
grizzled nova
Driving my car into a tree is easy.
I've never done it, but it would be easy to do.
round pendant
also 32% of accounts is all accounts, most accounts don't touch m+
lusty grotto
motherfucker im not talking about ability, im talking about a blanket statement
"most people can get 3k"
can they?
grizzled nova
Yes.
grizzled nova
Can that person be tought to tie their shoes? They can be taught to get 3k.
3k isn't an ask, all things considered.
waxen cradle
Summoning Apb our official feelycrafter to end this converstion
grizzled nova
Which I think qualifies as easy.
toxic pewter
My name has been invokedd
well in order to solve this we must drill down as deep as possible and get down to the basics
'what is easy' is the question that must be asked
easy
undone beacon
Summoning Apb our official feelycrafter to end this converstion
I did that already but kids these days have no respect for the feelycrafter
coarse bay
Preach
toxic pewter
s is one of the most common letters used in the english language
and Y is interesting..
waxen cradle
@undone beacon right but it is funny
undone beacon
e is a vowel as is A
I read this as "e as in the vowel A" and was like, damn thats deep
round pendant
"most people can get 3k"
I called you dense cause surely you're aware that 68% of wow accounts not having KSM doesn't mean 68% of people can't get it
coarse bay
Like what’s been said many times, this is just people not agreeing on the term easy
waxen cradle
Right I was like damn mind blown
toxic pewter
Easy is as easy does, as they say
round pendant
yo true
toxic pewter
a better question to ask is 'what is difficult?'
lusty grotto
I called you dense cause surely you're aware that 68% of wow accounts not having...
it does because there's a time constraint, there's a season
solid sun
This idea that someone can do something if they try is just so stupid
round pendant
HOW
grizzled nova
This idea that someone can do something if they try is just so stupid
It's remarkably sound, actually.
grizzled nova
It's called education lmao
solid sun
Like you can teach the vast majority of people anything
round pendant
ragebait
coarse bay
round pendant
am I gatekeeping intellectual disability or something?
wtf are you even saying
it makes NO SENSE
lusty grotto
cerulean tusk
Rat in a hat is owning you
coarse bay
You are him
solid sun
Just because people can learn something or practice something doesn’t mean it’s easy
You can learn a second language. I wouldn’t call that easy
toxic pewter
OK ALL I SOLVED IT
grizzled nova
Brother you're mentaling yourself out of so many experiences in life.
toxic pewter
MY FINAL, ONCE AND FOR ALL ANSWER
round pendant
Again, in what fucking world is saying "everyone can do it!" gatekeeping?
lusty grotto
HOW IS THAT GATEKEEPING
im sorry yam i couldnt resist
toxic pewter
IT IS
coarse bay
It is
toxic pewter
it IS 3K RATING
round pendant
holy fuck nimchip please tell me that's ragebait
because if you actually meant to ragebait me there
that's S tier ragebait
cerulean tusk
Rat got you good
undone beacon
guys holy shit completely unrelated but if you live in a neighborhood with the mechagnome endeavor theres an npc that lets you skip the mechagon intro
this is huge
coarse bay
Ya
lusty grotto
no but for real
wide fulcrum
I AM GOOGLE
Damnit Google, why you send me links to big bootys when I "clearly" asked about tank rotations 🤣😆🤣
waxen cradle
IT IS... APB has SPOKEN
toxic pewter
thats the final answer to any question, once you drill down deep enough
cerulean tusk
I can sleep walk 3k, wdum
toxic pewter
ITS BOTH AND NEITHER
undone beacon
I'm going to feed all of this conversation into an AI and have it turn it into a hit rock song from the early 2000s
mighty valley
bring back "this version of mage tower is easy for me" to end this convo tbh
cerulean tusk
I pull 2 afk lads and still get 3k, u just got to show uo
toxic pewter
is it true mage tower is easiest of all time in this pre patch or did they fix it
coarse bay
If ya call 3k hard in context of this video game. Ya need to get out
To us it is, it’s subjective
lusty grotto
for real this time: I'm going to agree that 3k is attainable by most players, yes, provided the interest does not wane and there's no time limitations. But that scenario simply does not exist.
coarse bay
is it true mage tower is easiest of all time in this pre patch or did they fix i...
Ive heard it is
round pendant
You can learn a second language. I wouldn’t call that easy
Most people in the world know multiple languages, it's not hard it just takes a lot of time and exposure
toxic pewter
maybe its time i get that book mount finally..
undone beacon
is it true mage tower is easiest of all time in this pre patch or did they fix i...
Its not so bad rn with scaling changes, they buffed some of the boss HP after a day but i still got 'er done
toxic pewter
ok interesting
undone beacon
Just missing healing tower because fuck healing
coarse bay
I never argued that 3k wasnt attainable. I just think that claiming it’s easy is subjective
lusty grotto
i agree with you on that Cam
round pendant
for real this time: I'm going to agree that 3k is attainable by most players, ye...
I think the argument that because 68% of people don't get it in a season means 68% of people can't get is silly because in that group is a lot of people who simply do not care to play m+
If you take only a group of people who are actually interested in the gamemode, and will play it
toxic pewter
3K rating is the appropriate modicum of difficulty
mighty valley
did anyone argue that it was impossible for those 68% of people at any point
round pendant
I think a vast majority can get 3k within a season time frame
cerulean tusk
Nah, it is objectively easy.
Same way objectively a human can be expected to be able to lift a feather
3k is that easy
You just got to show up
That is it
grizzled nova
I never argued that 3k wasnt attainable. I just think that claiming it’s easy is...
I think you're fundamentally misuing the word easy, applying your definition makes the word meaningless in any context because the second you claim anything is easy we can find a counterargument that applies to some specific individual that struggled, and you regressively self-invladate your own use of the word infinitely.
coarse bay
Man why is psychology class back in session
If i claim something is easy, i will always say its my opinion and not claim i know the objective answer
round pendant
He's not wrong tho, we already established what we meant by 'easy' you just keep tying it back to the subjective experience of difficulty
cerulean tusk
I wont hold back cause some snowflake struggles not to melt while on the artic
You just got to show up
coarse bay
Difficulty varies person to person in some way, it isnt always the same
grizzled nova
I think your refusal to acknowledge that valid, normative uses of the word easy exist makes you a difficult person.
undone beacon
I knew this would happen i called it
coarse bay
I think your refusal to admit that it’s subjectively is also a thing with big words
round pendant
Yeah difference is Thukker understands what normative and reductive mean
I'm being aggro because I'm getting tired of this conversation
I'm gonna go do something else lmao
love you guys
cerulean tusk
If ya try to defend 3k hard cause ya dumb. All we know is ya dumb
undone beacon
I'm being aggro because I'm getting tired of this conversation
I brought out the copypasta, apb, and mechagon facts, I tried
cerulean tusk
love you guys
❤️
coarse bay
I think saying that 3k io is easy FOR YOU, and maybe all of your friends is accurate. Claiming its easy for everyone is subjective
toxic pewter
Ok, I am afraid we must drill down even deeper to reach the base level of all arguments. Nothing is deeper than this. We are, of course, talking about the everlasting battle between 'GOOD' AND 'EVIL'. When referring to the 3k as easy.. one must ask.. is this good?
cerulean tusk
I think saying that 3k io is easy FOR YOU, and maybe all of your friends is accu...
You just have to show up
Ppl will drag your ass to 3k
0 effort
coarse bay
Lmao
round pendant
I think saying that 3k io is easy FOR YOU, and maybe all of your friends is accu...
Nobody ever spoke about an individuals experience
coarse bay
I wonder if anyone is seriously trying to argue that 3k is hard <:monkahmm:13825...
Not that its hard, no
lusty grotto
mighty valley
i hate that i'm broadly on cam's side but think clipping the google AI overview is worthless
coarse bay
i hate that i'm broadly on cam's side but think clipping the google AI overview ...
That was a meme lol
lusty grotto
cat why are you dancing like that
coarse bay
Lmao that delayed dance
wide fulcrum
Sweet. Funkykitty gonna prove their point by letting me show up as warrior healer and drag me up to my heal ksm❤️😆
cerulean tusk
Cause this place is groovy
lusty grotto
did you get roofied
round pendant
I figured out how I'm gatekeeping
I'm gatekeeping people from arguing the game is too hard so that blizzard gut it more
lusty grotto
LOL
round pendant
god I wish we were allowed emotes I'd post my ragebait emote right now
cerulean tusk
Sweet. Funkykitty gonna prove their point by letting me show up as warrior heale...
Fuck it, ya can, just being two big boy dps and tank and blast
We done runs without a tank
coarse bay
I think 3k io week 1 is easy
lusty grotto
i did not see 2h prot action this expansion
grizzled nova
I think 3k io week 1 is easy
Woah now
cerulean tusk
S2 and onwards surw
grizzled nova
Easy, for you.
lusty grotto
so im gonna invalidate all of cat's comments
toxic pewter
yeah but most people that play the game have never actually even done a +2
cerulean tusk
S1?
sinful copper
Fuck it, ya can, just being two big boy dps and tank and blast
We done runs wit...
Like 12s?
cerulean tusk
Yarp
solid sun
Cammy and I completed the circle
cerulean tusk
cerulean tusk
Actually true
grizzled nova
fuck no wonder you're dented
coarse bay
Dented? Why are we insulting people now?
cerulean tusk
Cause some ppl dont get the game
cerulean tusk
round pendant
does raider.io have per-character rio by date stats
I wanna see how long it took me to get 3k
cerulean tusk
Ya can see it during the recap, never checked it before then
Maybe you can see it on your profile as a graph
round pendant
I'm too casual to get 3k in 1 week
I only play with friends and their schedules are all over the place so I end up having to re-do stuff I've already done
undone beacon
yam is back :D
round pendant
not for long
undone beacon
D:
round pendant
I do think playing with friends who all play at different times holds me back tho
round pendant
I did like 150 dungeons last season and only got to 3243
jagged pier
sorry im done im done
round pendant
but I was so burnt and bored by the time all my friends actually wanted to get rio and not fuck around doing other shit like farming crests because they for some reason think a few ilvls is gonna make the difference
undone beacon
<:heybear:705331455680839740>
round pendant
I guess that's the curse of being the tank bitch
round pendant
https://tenor.com/view/bear-exploding-gif-18403884229748594041
what the fuck you just blew jakey up
lusty grotto
I just typically have a point that I just stop caring about pushing
undone beacon
what the fuck you just blew jakey up
thats what he gets for not giving us peasants :heybear:
round pendant
I wanted to push more cause literally none of it was difficult beyond just being griefed by pugs doing something stupid
but after 150 dungeons of mostly slop
sinful copper
I do think playing with friends who all play at different times holds me back th...
Playing with casual friends makes u more casual
round pendant
cba don't wanna pay for sub anymore, wanna go play poe, etc
mighty valley
everything is easy if people just stop making mistakes, so true
round pendant
I can't see my rio over time
round pendant
everything is easy if people just stop making mistakes, so true
well I just mean tanking is ez and I never got to a part where it felt hard
jagged pier
round pendant
I remember fucking up an ara kara twice and a priory once
toxic pewter
I too, also made a mistake one time
sinful copper
Feel like tanking is so easy and then you get rly high and it's soooo hard
round pendant
I never get to experience it
sinful copper
So draining too because u spend so long finding the key u need and then it gets bricked so fast
waxen cradle
When I get really high it does get hard.... wait were talking about M+ my bad
round pendant
I'm just vibing w keying through dungeons my friends want to do and they're always scared of +1 key level
waxen cradle
lmao
sinful copper
I just solo push on tank, but I mainly push as dps
waxen cradle
had to they left the door open
round pendant
I fall asleep dpsing
sinful copper
So easy to solo push as tank because tanks have privilege
lusty grotto
when i look at sidney sweeney's tatas i get really hard.... wait were talking about M+ my bad
waxen cradle
lmao
sinful copper
shut summit
round pendant
toxic pewter
urban bane
what the
toxic pewter
XD
round pendant
That brings everyone out of the woodwork
toxic pewter
urban bane
when public shaming is your kink ig
lusty grotto
sinful copper
Even sense showed up at the mention of Sidney Sweeney
lusty grotto
damn
lusty grotto
waxen cradle
lmao
lusty grotto
i gotta be honest i was expecting auto mod
waxen cradle
The auto mod was probably like yeah she's hot I'll let it slide
lusty grotto
its like that bruce banner gif that ghash found
round pendant
round pendant
its like that bruce banner gif that ghash found
uh is that the one I'm thinking of
ionic fern
i gotta be honest i was expecting auto mod
You get manual mod.
lusty grotto
yes
undone beacon
is there hulk wang
lusty grotto
wait noooo
sinful copper
round pendant
everyone knows that gif lmao
lusty grotto
is there hulk wang
negative
undone beacon
poor kin
lusty grotto
OHNO
waxen cradle
But are they Kin to you Nim ?
lusty grotto
maybe
who can tell, we're just rodents
hard to keep track of ye olde family tree if you know what i mean
waxen cradle
lmao
lusty grotto
hol up
round pendant
have you ever formed a rat king nimchip
lusty grotto
attempts were made but ultimately were deemed too disgusting
waxen cradle
You use firefox ?
round pendant
its the AI
no it's cause chrome fucked up adblock
lusty grotto
speaking of which i have never turned something off faster than that
drowsy comet
my firefox is fucked
get Chrome, problem fixed
round pendant
why are my icons inverted colours
toxic pewter
I dont always use browers, but when I do, I prefer Chrome
lusty grotto
feels like everyone agrees that if we want to use chat bots, we will use the one chatbot app, not the different implementations on every single fucking application in your computer
hmm thats weird
lusty grotto
you dont use hardware accel do you?
lusty grotto
yeah but weird, i havent seen something like that happening
round pendant
I was fucking around with my colour management settings before because my monitor wasn't adjusting its colours no matter how much I changed it (some firmware bug I think)
so it's probably that
lusty grotto
idk
lusty grotto
do you have local dimming on your monitor?
round pendant
well only by virtue of it being an oled
lusty grotto
yeah, still i dont think it would cause that
toxic pewter
are new monitors worth it im still using monitor from 2010
grizzled nova
I was fucking around with my colour management settings before because my monito...
It's a bug in 25H2 windows rn - hardware accelerated Chromium/Electron apps are ignoring windows color management profiles.
round pendant
oh it was using some weird colour profile I have downloaded for an old monitor
weird how it only applied to certain images on firefox and not my entire display tho
round pendant
It's a bug in 25H2 windows rn - hardware accelerated Chromium/Electron apps are ...
oh, sick
grizzled nova
Discord/Steam/etc all look washed out af rn if I use hardware acceleration with a WCM profile.
You can either chase down turning off hardware acceleration on everything, I'm just leaving the profile off for now.
round pendant
yeah I wasn't intending to use a colour profile anyway, was just trying to figure out why my display wasn't changing colours when I changed the colour settings earlier
but it turned out I just had to let it do it's pixel clean stuff
round pendant
are new monitors worth it im still using monitor from 2010
uh yea
lusty grotto
reminds me of the stupid Edge HDR bug
waxen cradle
Yes they definitely can be worth it, just depends on how much you want to spend and if you can't live without going full 4k
grizzled nova
are new monitors worth it im still using monitor from 2010
Yeah OLED panels are extremely worth it.
grizzled nova
Like I knew that OLED panels were better and I resisted for a long time because how much better could it be really
it's a lot better
like I'll never go back better
toxic pewter
do you guys usually have dual monitor or even 3
lusty grotto
im still holding on with miniLED but i def want an OLED after work moved to them
round pendant
yeah I'd wait for RGB pixel layout oleds
lusty grotto
im just not convinced on 4k
round pendant
but they're almost affordable now
lusty grotto
probably stick to 1440p for the time being
round pendant
I unironically think 4k is mid for gaming but really good for anything with text
round pendant
what rate is best
120+
waxen cradle
depending on the size of the monitor you want, a large or pretty big monitor can get pretty expensive
lusty grotto
I unironically think 4k is mid for gaming but really good for anything with text
i agree
round pendant
The worst downside to OLED is you can't use gsync/vrr with it
because it causes obnoxious flickering
round pendant
but the upside is that dark scenes in shows/movies/games actually look good now
grizzled nova
It's a panel to panel issue, I think? Mine will do gsync, but only down to 102hz or something, so I never use it anyway.
Once we get full monitor size LTPO panels OLED will go wicked hard
round pendant
yeah prob because any lower it'll start flickring
I tried it and instantly turned it off
grizzled nova
LTPO can do variable refresh down to like 0.2hz
round pendant
hardly even notice lack of gsync anyway
toxic pewter
for wow is 4k even a thing
lusty grotto
well you probably have it set up correctly
but you def notice it when people dont set it up
round pendant
well I have it disabled
lusty grotto
i.e. frame limiting, etc
round pendant
oh right
lusty grotto
for wow is 4k even a thing
sure
toxic pewter
im still on 1080p
lusty grotto
you dont really need it but sure
round pendant
I've never been bothered by screen tearing prob cause of years of playing cs:s bhop back in 2008
lusty grotto
youre gonna need a good cpu for 4k though
specifically for WoW
other games you will need the gpu
lusty grotto
i havent actually sat down and compared, but i just feel its unneeded
like 2k is more than fine
lusty grotto
everything else does look stellar though
yea
100%
it was like a step up from IPS and IPS already had a very notable difference vs VA, etc
TN and so on
waxen cradle
What are people playing to pass the boredom of prepatch I have been taking time off of WoW to play other things
lusty grotto
im finishing up Palworld and Monster Hunter to catch up to current content
round pendant
it was like a step up from IPS and IPS already had a very notable difference vs ...
I hate IPS
coarse bay
What are people playing to pass the boredom of prepatch I have been taking time ...
Escape from tarkov and wow
lusty grotto
playing BF6 for weeklies
undone beacon
What are people playing to pass the boredom of prepatch I have been taking time ...
I’ve enjoyed Picayune Dreams, if you like roguelikes or bullet hells
round pendant
What are people playing to pass the boredom of prepatch I have been taking time ...
eft, soon poe
waxen cradle
Cool I may take a look at a few of them, to pass the boredom
coarse bay
eft, soon poe
I just started the main story and it’s so time gated
lusty grotto
i should be done with Palworld today (only missing Hartalis Ultra)
and then just farm Gogmazio or w/e his name is in MH Wilds
coarse bay
Ya i think i have most reqs but i need lmg skill and some items
round pendant
I'm just gonna get kappa then slowly work on the story for savior
but man it's a chore
also, labs loot is a joke
pve keys overpriced 😔
coarse bay
Very overpriced
drowsy comet
u can buy these?
coarse bay
Im spamming black now for the bitcoins but im so unlucky
round pendant
was duoing with my friend and he had black keycard and dude
that shit is depressingly bad most of the time
coarse bay
Ya i feel that
My friend i play with a lot gets 1-2 btc and keycards whereas i got 2 btc in 12 keycard uses
Actual moneysink
Pretty much every keycard is worth the price though
Besides black
Black is lucky to be a wash
round pendant
I got 400 SSA AP from red so that was nice
coarse bay
Ya red and res unit are huge for ammo
Its a good map to duo too
We both do raid backpacks stacked with rigs and leave full
Its chill to not feel rushed to loot every spot since u just kinda divide what rooms you do
grizzled nova
I keep abusing ultra medical
because you don't need to turn power on
door has been bugged since 1.0, if you aim at the bottom left of the door it still lets you open even without power, 40 use key, pretty reliably get LEDX/defibs
round pendant
idea med is good too
coarse bay
Ya that room seems way better than it used to be
round pendant
interchange is prob the most free loot tbh
coarse bay
Those 2 rooms i saw maybe a single ledx in previous wipes
grizzled nova
yeah I don't even keep the keys anymore
coarse bay
Thukker you on pvp or pve?
grizzled nova
pvp
waxen cradle
See ya around guys off to eat and play something 🙂
grizzled nova
I'm only 43 rn, turned in the 40 btc to mechanic, still on track for good ending
haven't actually escaped yet tho
Honestly my biggest problem with the game now is customs, customs has been my favorite map for like 6 straight years, place is fantastic.
But the two new building interiors with 25 windows that have sightlines to the entire map ruined the whole vibe.
grizzled nova
I don't understand why nikita is obsessed with making every map have window anxiety
round pendant
so I'm stuck on pve
yeah those buildings are fuckin stupid
I also liked Reserve before D2 underground section was added
coarse bay
But the two new building interiors with 25 windows that have sightlines to the e...
Also ruins customs performance
Im on pve too, im playing it super casually rn lol
Ill probably wait till seasonal before doing more pvp
My friends escaped and finished super fast but i didnt want to play enough to keep up
lusty grotto
all i know about ETF is that my friends and brother keep mentioning Shturman
is Shturman up?
literally every time they go in
grizzled nova
Pve is cool, I would probably play it with friends if the pmc ai weren't so braindead
You always know when shturman is up, he full auto spams the svd at people lol
round pendant
Pve is cool, I would probably play it with friends if the pmc ai weren't so brai...
yeah the pmcs are a joke lmao
lusty grotto
yeah im guessing they mean if shturman is alive or w/e
round pendant
idk why they can't have them scale with your level so as you level up you'll meet higher levelled ones that are less braindead and have better gear
round pendant
yeah im guessing they mean if shturman is alive or w/e
Shturman is a scary man with a big gun
tbf his goons are scarier than he is
the only boss that spooks me anymore is killa cause he just shows up outta nowhere and starts blasting
grizzled nova
yeah im guessing they mean if shturman is alive or w/e
Yeh I just mean he's the least surprising of all the bosses he blasts anything that movies with an extremely large semi auto sniper rifle really really fast, you can hear it everywhere on the map, shturmy going ham with svd
lusty grotto
theyve been doing some quests or missions or w/e im sure its part of it
grizzled nova
Yeah killa and goons are definitely the most dangerous,
Glukhar can be too if he spawns with all 7 guards and they decide to zoomer slide you at the same time