you pretty much throw up rake and rip and dw about it
#protection
proper roost
toxic pewter
Ok that’s good to know
proper roost
people kinda yap about it for rdruid and it's like LITERALLY all you have to do is rake tab x5 rip repeat
toxic pewter
Do they still keep iron furs when you switch or whatever
undone beacon
Didn't you just go off on ghash for calling specs you dont play at a high level easy
smh
undone beacon
Do they still keep iron furs when you switch or whatever
If you play claw druid, you retain ironfur+80% of bear armor for 6 seconds in other forms
toxic pewter
Yeah interesting
Like you’re sort of not meant to stay longer than 6 sec right
That’s the idea you may die
Right
proper roost
Didn't you just go off on ghash for calling specs you dont play at a high level ...
to me there is a diffy when you call an ASPECT of a spec easy
very important difference imo
undone beacon
In live right now, you ripweave in ST to get big dam, otherwise you dont really bother unless you want to go for a sub 1% optimization
undone beacon
Like you’re sort of not meant to stay longer than 6 sec right
Yeah if you're in cat for more than 6 seconds you die
proper roost
cuz you can have easy aspects (e.g. rdruid catweaving is easy) and hard aspects (rdruid healing output is hard)
the spec is the whole package, not just 1 part
1 part you can pretty easily intuit to be easy
What's the skill ceiling for catform rotationally? Really low, it can't be high because you're missing too many buttons
mighty valley
i think some people are just intimidated by the idea of healer dps to begin with, and then the idea of shifting form and going into melee freaks them out even more
so they like. don't try
south zealot
guys ill settle it
mighty valley
and never discover that it's pretty straightforward
undone beacon
you are gods strongest gamer so you only play gods hardest specs
south zealot
this is true
mighty valley
did i tell yall that when i called the mortgage company to report that my house had burned to the ground
the customer service guy literally hit me with the
"i'm sorry to hear that, but you know, god gives his toughest challenges to his strongest warriors"
i didn't know people could say it in real life
mighty valley
maybe i should put my powers as one of god's strongest warriors to better use, i kinda just hang out
proper roost
that's so powerful
south zealot
guys im at a mexican restaurant
i didnt know if red salsa was spicy or mild
im dying
send help
proper roost
it must own to work in insurance if you are a sociopath i think
south zealot
insurance or sales
mighty valley
i didnt know if red salsa was spicy or mild
it can be either. sorry
south zealot
just manipulate everyone fuck it
undone beacon
I worked in sales for two years after college and it was suck
south zealot
yeah i never know sometimes green is just assblaster 3000 sometimes it tastes like nothing
fathom oasis
Came here for Prot info...nice to see it’s the same old slop as all of the internet...ie, ignorance thinking it is educated.
mighty valley
so true... prot warriors here don't know shit about salsa
proper roost
they don't even know how to make their own salsa verde..
undone beacon
Neph has a good point... I came here for salsa info...nice to see it’s the same old slop as all of the internet...ie, red thinking it is spicy.
mighty valley
salsa is one of the best kinds of slop tbh
south zealot
they don't even know how to make their own salsa verde..
i havent cooked in months
lmfao
unless putting a red baron frozen pizza in the oven counts as cooking
then im a mf chef
undone beacon
california pizza kitchen frozen pizzas bis and thats fact
proper roost
i mean same, i'm moving soonge and i haven't cooked in a month as a result 
it is very depressing
takeout is weirdly depressing imo
mighty valley
also costs billion dollars these days
toxic pewter
I only go places where I got a coupon these days cuz just can’t justify paying these ‘normal’ prices
toxic pewter
lol
I mean I don’t got no shame
I need a deal
GOTTA GET A DEAL IN LIFE
LIVE FOR THE DEAL
LIVE. LAUGH. DEAL.
proper roost
smh
i'm kinda torn between making fun of you being old and saying it's incredibly based to have 0 shame
you should maybe have a little shame
toxic pewter
I have shame.. I’m actually ashamed most of my life. I support bringing back shame into society even
warm plinth
california pizza kitchen frozen pizzas bis and thats fact
I'm a huge fan of screamin' Sicilian
proper roost
Oh okay you just don't have shame with the coupons thing. fair enough
toxic pewter
Ooooh frozen pizza.. I made a frozen Detroit style yesterday. Pretty solid
proper roost
You should maybe have less shame than that
proper roost
i mostly operate off spite tbh with u
proper roost
It kinda rules actually you should try it. Shame and guilt are weak and lame
mighty valley
who should decide which is which. idk. me i guess
toxic pewter
Spite will backfire on you though
Cuz in the end it’s actually doing you more harm than good
It’s like revenge
toxic pewter
Hmmm
proper roost
you know, sometimes people will be like "you're never going to have a better life" so you gotta spite them
mighty valley
yeah that's good spite
proper roost
that is a purely positive spite
toxic pewter
Ohh
proper roost
you can't do spiteful things to selfharm, that's just a misplay
toxic pewter
Yeah that example I get that
mighty valley
i think you also got to at some point declare spiteful victory and stop thinking about your enemy
you've already won and you double win by forgetting about them and moving on
proper roost
the best spite is to forget who you were spiteful at, but your life has improved significantly from the spite action so you continue to do it
toxic pewter
Yeah I think spite can and does work short term but it’s not great long term plan
Because it relies on others
proper roost
i can kinda agree with that tbh, long term spite is kinda hard to do
toxic pewter
I think long term spite can be dangerous
proper roost
but like I said, all you have to do is do it for long enough spitefully, and then it becomes a habit
which is great.
mighty valley
if it turns from proving yourself to spite them into just trying to fuck up their life with no gain to your own... you're fucking up
toxic pewter
Hmm I guess I entered this conversation thinking spite as a negative but I can’t deny I see your point when you look at it from a more positive perspective
proper roost
my mom told me i wasn't allowed to cook growing up so i spent like 10 years spiting her and now i'm great at it
it rules
toxic pewter
Eventually the spite needs to evolve in my opinion which it may organically into more of a personal, intrinsic pursuit of satisfaction
proper roost
now you get it
toxic pewter
My main issue is acting though
Like even taking that first spiteful act is difficult for me lmao
I guess spite helps one act
Which is a huge benefit
proper roost
maybe you've never felt spiteful enough towards anyone
proper roost
i think the problem is you're feeling too much shame and guilt
you need to replace all of that with self confidence and spite
toxic pewter
I can be fairly certain like out of ten people I probably have more shame and guilt feeling than like 8 of them probably
proper roost
that seems bad
mighty valley
it's something i fight against a lot too
toxic pewter
Just because I’ve felt not good enough
proper roost
you can convert those feelings into spite
just as I have
there's no downside
it's good actually
toxic pewter
Actually true
toxic pewter
Yes
mighty valley
it can drive you to make amends for a genuine fuckup
proper roost
ok there are some PRETTY unforgivable crimes but outside of those idk
i'm taking the benefit of the doubt and saying apb probably isn't feeling shame over like, killing babies or something
maybe he is idk
mighty valley
but yeah it mostly leads to you wallowing and saying "i'm a little worm"
mighty valley
but you can always be better in the future
proper roost
well who hasn't tbh but what's the point of ragretz
god apb has killed a lot of babies
wtf
proper roost
i don't think you have to forgive yourself i think you have to get spiteful at your past self first
toxic pewter
Interesting
proper roost
and then force a change upon yourself based on that spite
toxic pewter
Like throw all the doubt and shit my past self has
proper roost
we can get to the forgiving part later down the line it doesn't matter
proper roost
well that sounds a little too self helpy, more be like past me sucked ass, i hate them
i will be good to spite past me
proper roost
and then what i've found important is to say that sometimes present me sucks too but not as bad as past me so it's ok
Wow. imagine calling this slop. we're making some real progress here
I got apb to stop killing babies
toxic pewter
LOL
proper roost
but maybe future children, spared from your wrath
toxic pewter
Yes
proper roost
you could like, kill other old people or something. that's more morally acceptable
proper roost
some would even call it a moral imperative
toxic pewter
indeed
proper roost
alright hold on great movie pitch
serial killer horror movie but in a retirement home
toxic pewter
I’d watch it lmao
proper roost
why. you gotta raise your standards apb. this sounds terrible
toxic pewter
Hahah
proper roost
it might make a good like 2 minute comedy skit. Hold on, the joke is percolating in my brain right now
grandma keels over during bingo and everyone's like "did she die of old age or was it the serial killer?"
and then they just keep playing bingo!
proper roost
There's something here, I'm sure of it
round pendant
a
undone beacon
mighty valley
yet another day of ignorance thinking it is educated
coarse bay
Like all the other slop
proper roost
wd40 i'd imagine
mighty valley
her eyes are now clean and lubricated
proper roost
did you know you are NOT supposed to use wd40 in a ton of applications people usually use it in
specifically apparently you're not supposed to use it to lubricate parts
solid sun
I use wd40 on my keyboard so that they’re lubricated enough it matches my rsham roleplay.
No one’s riptide hits quite like mine
fathom oasis
so we are calling it a "keyboard" now?
solid sun
Gaming apparatus
proper roost
Check out this seal
it might be a sea lion actually? i don't know the difference.
mighty valley
the succulent chinese meal guy died like a year ago
solid sun
I feel like I’ve failed you, Harrow
proper roost
that's so unfortunate. that guy ruled
solid sun
You said that like everyone would know who that person is
mighty valley
kanga knows
solid sun
But I’m clueless
solid sun
I assure you, I’m no child
proper roost
What causes someone to think "I should play wow" in like 2022
solid sun
Mom says I’m a big boy now
proper roost
here u go bud
fathom oasis
isn't 12 like, quite old for a rhino?
proper roost
this is not scripted btw dude legit got arrested AND he did just talk like this normally
it's actually so based
mighty valley
he was also a kind of legendary repeat criminal, in and out of jail constantly
solid sun
Oh if you had said Jack Karlson I’d have recognized the name
proper roost
What
solid sun
Just did a book report on him for my 7th grade world cultures project
proper roost
he was also a kind of legendary repeat criminal, in and out of jail constantly
ok i didn't know this detail i thought he was actually incorrectly arrested for some check fraud or some shit
mighty valley
i can't remember all the details but i think this was like, one of the few times he wasn't actually guilty of what he was being arrested for lol
solid sun
He was being investigated for credit card fraud
I remember that was the third bullet point on my presentation
Mrs. Humphries said I did a real good job
dusky canopy
@lusty grotto what does my friends horse named mayo do when he sees me?
solid sun
Mayoneighse
solid sun
Owned
dusky canopy
😂
solid sun
Brew when are we doing celebratory new year drinks
proper roost
dusky canopy
dusky canopy
It’s the gif so I’m not sure
solid sun
Did you ever snag some of that Skrewball
dusky canopy
Brew when are we doing celebratory new year drinks
Smoked 3 and 1/2 bottles of captain throughout new years week with my fam on vacation
My livers on break for a little while 😆
solid sun
Lmao
My dad and I were gifted several bottles of various tequila from south of the border
dusky canopy
My cousin does that every time he goes down and visits his relatives
Doesn’t give me a whole bottle but always serves it at his place
It’s pretty good
solid sun
Hell yeah
round pendant
specifically apparently you're not supposed to use it to lubricate parts
misinformation
WD stands for Water Displacement and people ran with it not being a lubricant even tho it says lubricate right there on the can
😔
proper roost
is it misinfo? shit
idk i'm terrible at working with my hands
comfy ass office job mf yapping about mechanics and shit
unearned valor..
jade hazel
https://tenor.com/view/how-it-feels-when-you-meme-nanami-jjk-gif-106832773725359...
^ people eating it up
round pendant
toxic pewter
round pendant
I hate wd-40 tho, the smell is unbearable
the tiniest amount of that sprayed on a door hinge and I can smell it throughout the house for days
dusky canopy
Came here for Prot info...nice to see it’s the same old slop as all of the internet...ie, ignorance thinking it is educated.
mighty valley
https://tenor.com/view/no-gif-12921606
one of my favorite koth gags
solid sun
While I’ve been gone, did I miss the creation of a new copypasta
toxic pewter
one of my favorite koth gags
have you watched the new season 14 of koth
mighty valley
i've watched half of it
dusky canopy
While I’ve been gone, did I miss the creation of a new copypasta
Yes
toxic pewter
nice
undone beacon
Came here for Prot info...nice to see it’s the same old slop as all of the internet...ie, ignorance thinking it is educated.
mighty valley
not as good as the early seasons but not the worst
solid sun
Can I scored a tldr
mighty valley
some of the "look at modern thing" is a bit clumsy but it's overall pleasant to watch
dusky canopy
@lusty grotto make yours bold
toxic pewter
yah I enjoyed it personally
mighty valley
Can I scored a tldr
this was yesterday or the day before? but a user came in, said literally that line, prompted by nothing, and that's it
first and last message ever
we have no idea what set them off but they sure set us straight
undone beacon
solid sun
Lmfao
I liked this one
All im saying is you guys sit and analyze trinkets and numbers and forget to play the game. I bet you lose at least 10% dmg due to keybinds, addons and flexibility. Then you login and see people with less gear outperfoming you and wonder why 😄 (not intended for you personally ofc). This isint data analyst excel shit you do at job...more factors take place than you think. And yes im 100% sure that Sim is total shit. (not enough filters to use it as you think it works atm)
dusky canopy
All im saying is you guys sit and analyze trinkets and numbers and forget to play the game. I bet you lose at least 10% dmg due to keybinds, addons and flexibility. Then you login and see people with less gear outperfoming you and wonder why 😄 (not intended for you personally ofc). This isint data analyst excel shit you do at job...more factors take place than you think. And yes im 100% sure that Sim is total shit. (not enough filters to use it as you think it works atm)
undone beacon
Came here for Prot info...nice to see it’s the same old slop as all of the internet...ie, ignorance thinking it is educated. All im saying is you guys sit and analyze trinkets and numbers and forget to play the game. I bet you lose at least 10% dmg due to keybinds, addons and flexibility. Then you login and see people with less gear outperfoming you and wonder why 😄 (not intended for you personally ofc). This isint data analyst excel shit you do at job...more factors take place than you think. And yes im 100% sure that Sim is total shit. (not enough filters to use it as you think it works atm).
Those two work well together
Quick add more
undone beacon
Thats an older copypasta
jade hazel
Came here for Prot info...nice to see it’s the same old slop as all of the internet...ie, ignorance thinking it is educated.
mighty valley
That one was fun because it was triggered by like... an innocuous trinket comparison
solid sun
Innocuous is a weird word
jade hazel
bewildering
solid sun
It’s like noxious
But it isn’t
But I do think they’re related
There I go being ignorant again
Believing myself to be educated
lusty grotto
<@131897531251556352> make yours bold
wym
dusky canopy
The copy paste
proper roost
All im saying is you guys sit and analyze trinkets and numbers and forget to play the game. I bet you lose at least 10% dmg due to keybinds, addons and flexibility. Then you login and see people with less gear outperfoming you and wonder why 😄 (not intended for you personally ofc). This isint data analyst excel shit you do at job...more factors take place than you think. And yes im 100% sure that Sim is total shit. (not enough filters to use it as you think it works atm)
lusty grotto
is that it?
All im saying is you guys sit and analyze trinkets and numbers and forget to play the game. I bet you lose at least 10% dmg due to keybinds, addons and flexibility. Then you login and see people with less gear outperfoming you and wonder why 😄 (not intended for you personally ofc). This isint data analyst excel shit you do at job...more factors take place than you think. And yes im 100% sure that Sim is total shit. (not enough filters to use it as you think it works atm)
coarse bay
Earlier in the season there was people in hdh discord saying sims were bad
I think regulars
proper roost
sims are kinda bad a lot of the time but for completely different reason from what a lot of newbies yap about
lusty grotto
i figure they join disc thinking we just shitpost about what we love about prot warriors all day or something
and post "cool" fan art of prot warriors
wait
dusky canopy
Sims get you the most damage output
They just don’t compare scenarios perfectly
Like trinket use for example
lusty grotto
right
proper roost
based on what i see on subreddits where people are serious about no off topic, noobs basically just want everyone to be yapping about basic wowhead guide shit 24/7
solid sun
Hi nimchip
proper roost
they're like "why isn't everyone talking about haste vs mastery"
proper roost
I'm still kinda flabbergasted there were multiple people the other day asking about first craft for pwar, literally 1 week before season end
lusty grotto
yeah well, people are used to tl;dr guides
solid sun
or i hope you had happy holidays at least
Pretty swell holidays. Hope yours were good as well
proper roost
But like
lusty grotto
proper roost
why now lol
lusty grotto
if i had to guess, id say they are preparing alts or something
proper roost
I don't know, I'm still so surprised/curious about why people sub to WoW for the first time this late into the game (not this season, i mean in general)
nah the way the guy asked earlier, he was def 100% new to the game
lusty grotto
not that it matters this late lmao but yea
coarse bay
Lets discuss who the cutest in this discord is, and why its @warm plinth
proper roost
like why do people in their early 20s play this game
kind urchin
Because they can and they want to.
lusty grotto
now thats a good question
proper roost
how do they find it
ig i have heard a few people be like "my parent(s) played it so i am trying it out now" which is a little wholesome i guess
undone beacon
like why do people in their early 20s play this game
Because I've played it since i was a wee tot and im not stopping anytime soon
easy
jade hazel
like why do people in their early 20s play this game
cause new mmos have been sooooo good
right?
undone beacon
#wowkiller
lusty grotto
i think the question is
why play mmos
we're in a WoW channel so
thats what he meant
jade hazel
because people crave achievements and want to look at the things they achieved
lusty grotto
ok lets go back a bit
kind urchin
Because eavery other new mmo puts too much of a focus on pvp and action combat.
lusty grotto
why do TWENTY YEAR OLDS play MMOs
proper roost
cause new mmos have been sooooo good
i mean mmorpgs are a boomer genre
proper roost
its rly weird to see young people playing mmorpgs tbh
undone beacon
i fuckin hate mmos frfr ong
lusty grotto
none of you will have a satisfactory answer, neither will i
proper roost
they should be playing fork knife and minecraf
lusty grotto
or whatever other live service game is out there that doesnt need you to pay a sub
which are a shitton
like guaranteed a 20 y/o gooner is gonna play some gacha garbage for sure, not a fucking mmo
jade hazel
Idk just speaking out of my ass I think they (20 yr olds) like having things be tangible to them. Like an achievement and collecting where all the other games are just go go go go and erase everything for the next season pass idk
kind urchin
They should be playing whatever they want to play. You're not a gatekeeper to what people can and can't play.
lusty grotto
nobody is gatekeeping
proper roost
the weirdest to me is that there were some young people playing classic, tho that was less weird because streamers were all playing classic
lusty grotto
why are you looking so hard into something we're not discussing
it was just a question
solid sun
Recently my nephews saw me playing wow and they were super intrigued by it. When I asked why they said the games they play seem nothing like it
jade hazel
why are you looking so hard into something we're not discussing
because they aren't real
Guarok I'm convinced is an AI bot
lusty grotto
tbf i should have asked my guild
proper roost
Idk just speaking out of my ass I think they (20 yr olds) like having things be ...
retail is like that tho, right
entire game is seasonal atp idk
What guild
proper roost
I have always asked the babbies who play why they do. They are unicorns it is fascinating
lusty grotto
good players, short attention span, not willing to rebuild
proper roost
like the 18yo who was playing priest in classic vanilla wow
Idr what their response was I think they said they saw a streamer playing it
which is totally understandable
jade hazel
i think we're jaded and forget... wow is a good game. crazy thought though.
lusty grotto
the parents played it thing seems recurring
proper roost
i think we're jaded and forget... wow is a good game. crazy thought though.
But like, what makes it good if you're completely outside of it. I don't forget this at all, I choose to play it
lusty grotto
i think we're jaded and forget... wow is a good game. crazy thought though.
sure but its outdated
proper roost
If you're outside of wow entirely you're like "wow there is this game that's older than me and no one I knows plays it"
The barrier to entry is very high
you have to live through people who have played it for like 15 plus years
jade hazel
sure but its outdated
dude starcraft 2 is outdated and there's still new players
cs2 is outdated
still new players
lusty grotto
nobody is saying there arent new players
proper roost
ok that one's different unironically because a lot of new players to those games are actually just in latin america no joke
jade hazel
lol same, dota same, like they're... just, good?
proper roost
or other like lower income places in the world where it's like, the fact that these games are really low system requirements, makes it really appealing
lusty grotto
none of those are "outdated"
proper roost
like it's kinda fascinating tbh
jade hazel
i disagree
lusty grotto
MMOs compete with Live Service games, thats what makes it outdated
this isnt about having an old game
its about the genre mutating into something else
jade hazel
none of those are "outdated"
?
jade hazel
Just because they got graphic face lifts they arent outdated
proper roost
i'm not fully on board with nimchip's argument here sorry
jade hazel
what are we talking about
proper roost
sc2 slaps though i wish i had anyone to play it with
lusty grotto
MMOs got displaced by any live service game, thats what makes them outdated
proper roost
I wish they made new RTS games that were good instead of RTS games that are bad
jade hazel
if wow got a new engine for graphics,,,, its a new game? and not outdated?
whats your point here
lusty grotto
stop yapping and read
mighty valley
i think MMOs are kind of a known quantity at this point too, a lotta players were drawn in by the wonder and the mystery and the promise that inevitably gets solved once players have their hands on them for years
proper roost
if wow got a new engine for graphics,,,, its a new game? and not outdated?
i don't think this is the case at all, wow is definitely regarded as a very old game by pretty much everybody
proper roost
rightfully so imo
lusty grotto
thats not an answer
solid sun
Wait can we slow down
mighty valley
live service games took the reality of MMOs and optimized it
lusty grotto
why would you want to play an MMO, when you can play a free game with fucking weeklies and dailies, and people running around
lusty grotto
live service games took the reality of MMOs and optimized it
thank you
solid sun
Is Fortnite considered a live service game
kind urchin
I still can't believe you guys are having a whole debate about why young people play a certain game.
lusty grotto
Is Fortnite considered a live service game
yes
solid sun
Because I don’t think Fortnite took the place of WoW
lusty grotto
I still can't believe you guys are having a whole debate about why young people ...
we're not
proper roost
Is Fortnite considered a live service game
unambiguously it is, yeah
lusty grotto
Because I don’t think Fortnite took the place of WoW
its not about taking the place of, its just an evolution of the mmo share
its actually an advantage where you can play more than one game, and not be a one-game-andy
you dont have to commit to your sub
solid sun
But I don’t think you play Fortnite for the same reason(s) you’d play wow
proper roost
i agree
proper roost
mmorpgs are a pretty unique genre of live service game
lusty grotto
psychologically, you both wouldnt be more wrong
mighty valley
But I don’t think you play Fortnite for the same reason(s) you’d play wow
some of the reasons are the same. the remaining reasons are why wow still has players
solid sun
Not everything
lusty grotto
on a very very BASE level
coarse bay
What if I want a one game Andy game to release in modern day
I dont think it’s as profitable to make the investment for a game at that level, instead of just churning out short life span live service games
lusty grotto
giga dopamine intake, for free
kind urchin
They're completely different genres of games. Sure, they're both live service but they're not even remotely similar.
proper roost
Bring back vanilla WoW conceptually
i have a strong belief that the only actual way to do this would be to make everyone's internet shit
like make it so 56kbps is the maximum internet speed possible
if you think about it pretty much all early mmorpgs were just glorified chatrooms with fancy shit to do mid-chatting
dusky canopy
I dont think it’s as profitable to make the investment for a game at that level,...
That’s exactly why I think they are a cancer to the gaming world
coarse bay
Because for a long-term one trick game to come out, it needs to take players from other established games to build up a large enough base
mighty valley
here's the modern day problem
proper roost
It's not too late. We should destroy amazon data centers
dusky canopy
The focus is how much they can squeeze out of your pocket
solid sun
You engage with wow differently than you engage with Fortnite. I get on a super basic level you’re collecting things or whatever but they still go about it pretty differently from what I can tell
mighty valley
You engage with wow differently than you engage with Fortnite. I get on a super ...
it's about where the game fits in to your lifestyle
solid sun
Is it?
lusty grotto
different genres, whatever
its not just about fortnite, you cant look at it on a single game perspective
mighty valley
when wow came out, it brought in a ton of players who hadn't yet experienced a "lifestyle game" where it's engaging you and your friends over months or years
now everyone has one or more of those
proper roost
🤔
proper roost
i see where you're going with this harrow
i still think it's tied to early mmorpgs were a glorified chatroom tho
mighty valley
i see where you're going with this harrow
i still think it's tied to early mmor...
yeah, the social aspect was huge
hang out with your friends, and also hey can anyone help me collect 15 glorpshits
solid sun
The only popular, modern game I can think of that provides a similar experience to wow is ffxiv
proper roost
now you have to cajole people on your discord server to log in so you can chat to them in game
wow.... what has society come to..
lusty grotto
The only popular, modern game I can think of that provides a similar experience ...
what experience, can you define what you mean?
cause youre basically saying "they are both MMOs"
from what i can gather
kind urchin
There aren't very many genres that have as large scale combat as mmo's. That is at least one factor. And I'm referring to large group cooperative play.
And that's not specific to WoW.
lusty grotto
what do you define as large
player count?
is 128 players split into two groups enough?
teams of 64 players?
cause i can think of a few
solid sun
The ability to create a character, explore a world with said character and grow stronger with your friends, explore dungeons and raids, have some type of story to see through, alone or collaboratively, with complex cooperative game modes, a place to create your own home and “invite friends” over, RP if you’re into that, etc etc
kind urchin
Yeah. Like coordinated raids. Are those shooters though?
proper roost
@round pendant are you around i don't want you to get caught in this horrible convo but i have to yap about a really cringe osrs youtuber
solid sun
As far as I know, other live service games don’t really offer that
lusty grotto
The ability to create a character, explore a world with said character and grow ...
any survival game does this
and they can be live service games
dune awakening
palworld
solid sun
Dune doesn’t do that
lusty grotto
ark survival shitvolved
rust
doesnt do what
it does LITERALLY EVERYTHING you mentioned
solid sun
Dune, at least when I played, certainly didn’t offer all of what I mentioned
coarse bay
Destiny 2
lusty grotto
ok what exactly is missing?
solid sun
I don’t recall any complex cooperative things like dungeons or raids
I recall labs
But those aren’t really the same
lusty grotto
there were dungeons, and i guess you didnt do the deep desert
coarse bay
And progression may be different, but most shooters do that, like cod. You still level and unlock things
lusty grotto
^
solid sun
I feel like that’s intentionally being obtuse
You don’t play cod the same way you play wow or ffxiv
coarse bay
It’s the same dopamine
lusty grotto
ark had (has idk i didnt buy the graphic update) raids
coarse bay
If u pvp u do
lusty grotto
enshrouded had dungeons
mighty valley
of course wow (and other mmos) have unique features that are the reason people stick around, it's just worth considering which player motivations are now being fulfilled by a bunch of other games
lusty grotto
☝️
mighty valley
which weren't there when MMOs were the biggest games in the world
also at a base level, all of them are fulfilling "way to fill free time"
it's so much harder for a single player story game to break through when everyone's already mindlessly logging on to whatever their current fortnite is
used to be people would say "i finished my game and want to look for a new one"
(also 1000x as many games are now available)
lusty grotto
if youre looking at persistence (meaning what you do stays in world), most survival games accomplish that and theres more than enough to go meet every criteria: raids, dungeons, etc. AND you can play more than one at a time, without a sub. Gacha games also accomplish this and they are free.
Most live service shooters also accomplish even more in-depth "pvp" gameplay, some have cooperative pve modes too.
ARPGs
etc
just because live service games in general exist, regardless of genre, it is ridiculously costly to invest in an MMO, you would be cannibilazing player bases at best
until the riot mmo comes out, if it ever does
and then maybe then there will be a last hurrah for a dying genre
and by dying i mean a really slow death (meaning we're probably gonna keep playing for as long as we want)
mighty valley
it took them 8 years to make a card game, 10 for a fighting game depending on your definition of "done"
not holding my breath for their mmo lol
coarse bay
I still think one of the biggest hurdles for mmo’s is that most people that would be the audience for an mmo already have one. They have to come out good enough to take a playerbase that has “investment” into other games like wow and ffxiv
proper roost
that's a large part of why i'm curious why/how new young people get into the mmorpg genre at all
coarse bay
Usually friends id imagine
lusty grotto
i picked up on that, thats why im interested as well
solid sun
There have been many reasons to pick up a modern mmo
coarse bay
And family lol
solid sun
Even as a younger player
coarse bay
I got into wow personally because i grew up watching my dad play wow from release
And when some friends invited me i was like hell ya
proper roost
:oldge:
solid sun
I’m sure some people have played more recent blizzard projects like hearthstone or Overwatch and discovered wow had been around since the wheel was invented
Maybe we should check it out
Some probably were super into stories and there for a good while ffxiv billed itself as a critically acclaimed story
mighty valley
it def happens sometimes, but i know for sure that blizzard is concerned that the wow audience (and honestly their entire audience) is getting overall older
coarse bay
I think another problem with drawing a younger audience besides the experience of existing players and fomo, is that mmo’s generally take a much larger time investment compared to other games
In order to be played at a “higher” level
Im sure its much more attractive to just download a game and play at any level vs the time it takes in wow to catch up and stay caught up with end game content
proper roost
you know what's interesting, i've actually run into quite a lot more younger people (in their early 20s) playing osrs
that might be a more "this is a big twitch game nowadays" kinda thing, but
it's funny that a janky af even older game has more new young players in my experience
coarse bay
I have no idea how osrs was so successful, boggles my mind
proper roost
game is unironically quite good i'm afraid
mighty valley
ugh. i want to have runescape opinions but to do that i'd have to play runescape
proper roost
It kinda rules
mighty valley
i guess i could just have unfounded hater opinions
proper roost
i have ffxiv, osrs, and wow opinions because i played all of them to a decent level (not ffxiv)
but my ffxiv opinions are irrelevant and bad because i only leveled to like 58 before i quit
lusty grotto
Some probably were super into stories and there for a good while ffxiv billed it...
right those are good assumptions
proper roost
i guess i could just have unfounded hater opinions
say the hater opinions i always love hearing outsider opinions on random shit that doesn't matter
lusty grotto
and twitch is a big factor for sure
mighty valley
i just hate the look of the game so much that i can't imagine it feeling good to play for me lol
so i invent reasons people like it. you're all watching subway surfers on the other screen while automining
lusty grotto
same, id rather play eq1 again and i really dont wanna play eq1 again
just because of the outdated look
mighty valley
it was the "little brother mmo" to me when i was in college
lusty grotto
but it was big in twitch so thats def a factor
now the question is, how is the player retention
proper roost
it was the "little brother mmo" to me when i was in college
this is how it is for a lot of people too, there's like a weird amount of little brother syndrome for people who play it (e.g. last year when a lot of wow streamers were playing it, all the osrs players were like pogg it's a real game now!! and it's super weird)
lusty grotto
do you mean like parasocial gaming?
proper roost
Uhm it's kinda hard to describe
It's kind of the vibe behind when people are like "XYZ other new MMORPG is a wow killer" if that makes sense
lusty grotto
tbh its the first time i hear of the little brother thing haha
proper roost
Like they can only talk about the game in comparison to WoW
they can't just enjoy it by itself
if that makes sense
coarse bay
i have ffxiv, osrs, and wow opinions because i played all of them to a decent le...
I played a lot of rs3 and prefer rs3, i have played osrs multiple times but im not a fan. I do have a friend with a near max ironman tho
lusty grotto
yeah but thats kind of inherent to mmos cause they take so much time space, you can only commit to one or at best two
proper roost
kinda based, the funny part about rs3 for me is that I have harrow's opinion but for rs3 💀
lusty grotto
so people want to play just one, and be on the one everyone is on
kind urchin
If it helps make sense of it all I was watching my nephew a while back and happened to be watching a wow stream when he got here. He said "that game looks really fun" I said " I have that game if you want to play it" He said yeah so I logged in and let him make a character. He's 5 years old. I imagine young people may come across a video or clip (there's a lot of them on tik tok) and decide it looks good enough to try.
proper roost
the artstyle(s) they've chosen for RS3 makes it absolutely unplayable for me and it kinda sucks because i'm certain there's a lot of things to interest me there
lusty grotto
If it helps make sense of it all I was watching my nephew a while back and happe...
makes sense
coarse bay
I played runescape since actual 07, and id rather just keep playing the same acc, i already played back then once
lusty grotto
that kinda falls into the whole "my parents played it" thing though
coarse bay
Rs3 combat is much more fun for me
proper roost
so i invent reasons people like it. you're all watching subway surfers on the ot...
unironically not wrong a lot of the time, but the primary draw to the game i would say is that the core gameplay loop is very rabbitholey
Which is to say like
you've played a survival crafting game, right
mighty valley
yeah
proper roost
like grounded or something like that
and you know how addictive it is to be like "okay, I need to get iron, but to get iron, I need to get a new pick, my old one is almost broken, so I need to gear up to get some copper, and-"
lusty grotto
yeah but that gameplay loop is everywhere
proper roost
yes but no
kind urchin
It also doesn't hurt WoW's case that the art style lends itself to being attractive to younger people and longevity.
proper roost
osrs is definitely the most that way that i've ever felt in any game i've ever played
and it's kinda difficult to explain without real example + the actual interest in making those planning steps yourself
coarse bay
It also doesn't hurt WoW's case that the art style lends itself to being attract...
Ive heard lots of opinions about how unattractive and dated the aesthetic is. When compared to newer games like new world and stuff that just look “modern”
All the korean mmos that got pumped out too
proper roost
yea, i have quite a few friends who declined playing wow because of the graphics/artstyle
and find it unplayable because of the artstyle
It is what it is
coarse bay
I mean the last overhaul was wod right? And people hated it
proper roost
Rs3 combat is much more fun for me
osrs high level combat is awful and i'm convinced the people who enjoy it have stockholm syndromed themselves and/or simply have not played any mmorpgs with good combat (i.e. wow) ever in their lives
coarse bay
I wish the game looked better, but graphics fidelity is something i dont care too much about unless its really bad
kind urchin
Well sure, it's definitely not for everyone. But it is unique and stands stronger through time than other art styles.
mighty valley
osrs kinda has that "it's supposed to look old" advantage
coarse bay
osrs high level combat is awful and i'm convinced the people who enjoy it have s...
I read a whole reddit thread of osrs people arguing that end game osrs is much harder than wow endgame. Was eye opening
proper roost
I could play wow if it had every model swapped with a placeholder circle and every player character being a green box so idk lol 💀
proper roost
I read a whole reddit thread of osrs people arguing that end game osrs is much h...
uhhh
Completely apples and oranges tbh, same as the entire game imo
i think people who compare the 2 are goofy and i think practically no one plays the two at a high level to be able to realistically make this comparison
like you'll frequently see people yapping about it and I'll be like "I can literally tell the highest keys you've ever done is to 1500 io"
jade hazel
I wish the game looked better, but graphics fidelity is something i dont care to...
I wish I could make it look worse, like, truly classic style but nooo
I like shitty looking graphics 🤷♂️
Like truly
coarse bay
I have like a minimum preference for graphics, and i think i wouldnt be playing if they were as bad as classic
jade hazel
Well sure, it's definitely not for everyone. But it is unique and stands strong...
Still convinced you’re ai
kind urchin
They have made incremental improvements over the years. We don't notice a large difference for the most part but if you put them side by side it's actually quite significant.
proper roost
I like shitty looking graphics 🤷♂️
have u tried playing abiotic factor :^)
kind urchin
Still convinced you’re ai
You're never gonna give up on that. It's fine. I know I'm weird.
mighty valley
Still convinced you’re ai
weird thing to say to someone
proper roost
anyway it's an interesting case study of how 2 games can be the same genre (mmorpg) and be the most diametrically opposed games ever
kind urchin
Buuuuuuuuut. If I am AI, and I've been in this discord server for almost nine years, that would make me one of the oldest AI's in existence. Just sayin.
mighty valley
And you've never put a shirt on in those nine years
proper roost
not really, i remember cleverbot
coarse bay
Am i like the only person that leaves discords when im not playing the games
kind urchin
This picture is not nine years old.
jade hazel
Buuuuuuuuut. If I am AI, and I've been in this discord server for almost nine y...
Took long enough for someone to catch on
proper roost
you're not, i left when i was certain i would never play wow again
and then i was like fuck i have a ton of free time now and i want to do keys
kind urchin
And yet here you are.
proper roost
Smh never deleting my wtf folder again
kind urchin
Back to the black hole that is WoW.
mighty valley
i've never really thought that i've quit wow lol
i've dropped off for a year+ at times
but i've never had a "that's it i'm done" moment
coarse bay
Ive spent more time trying to get back into wow and not vibing than actually playing
mighty valley
having said that, i also have a huge graveyard of discord servers i never look at
coarse bay
I have to clear mine, too many
proper roost
u gotta have the emote servers
mighty valley
true
proper roost
so many emote servers...
jade hazel
I forgot exactly how it went but my quit moment was over the Axe in season 2 of DF when I was farming for it then it just dropped for everyone but got nerfed or something. Idk it really rubbed me the wrong way and didn’t come back till end of DF
mighty valley
"i quit FOREVER" returns same expansion
proper roost
💀
jade hazel
😂
mighty valley
the axe was even in s3 lmao
jade hazel
Something like that lmao
fathom oasis
s2 was dracthyr leggo
undone beacon
I have a digital hoarding issue and I have a billion random guild discords I need to leave
proper roost
the cap is like 100 or whatever isn't it
coarse bay
I literally just learned in the mage discord that there’s a server limit, and it’s dictated by your nitro plan
proper roost
i have like 6 D&D discords that i've made and then abandoned for myself
but i can't!! i have my notes in every single one
toxic pewter
when is midnight pre patch and it has the midnight talent trees and stuff right
proper roost
and collating them all in 1 place would be annoying
coarse bay
I still have my server i made for pugging EN, Cucks Raiding Anonymous
coarse bay
when is midnight pre patch and it has the midnight talent trees and stuff right
20th, yes
toxic pewter
ok thnx
proper roost
are we doing prepatch keys on the 20th apb
toxic pewter
lmao
only 2300 right now
cuz i lost a bunch like 4 months ago and was just like screw this
'im out till midnight'
didnt even get legend this season.. shakes head
lusty grotto
I have a digital hoarding issue and I have a billion random guild discords I nee...
i use groups
also color tagged
red = wow
dark grey = ffxiv
rest = other games
proper roost
only 2300 right now
wow... i'm surrounded by filthy casuals
toxic pewter
whoa i didnt know that either
lusty grotto
proper roost
like 10 of the immediate servers on my sidebar just have cats as the server icon
very good
cerulean tusk
kind urchin
I don't have my servers in folders. It's just a single column list.
cerulean tusk
Dont that get kinda, messy and hard to navigate?
kind urchin
I mean... I just swipe my finger and it does the fast scroll.
But no. I know the emblem for every server.
cerulean tusk
lusty grotto
whatever works for you
but i have too many servers
for too many different games
my "other games" folder is huge
so it was either folders or just scroll to infinity
coarse bay
Folders are bis
kind urchin
To be fair I probably should clean some out. I get in a geoup for keys and they send me a discord link and there's a new guild server I'm in. Do these people not think to make a separate server from their guild for pug keys?
coarse bay
I will never join a vc for a pug key lol
Ive done it in the past but even most title keys are doable without comms, id rather not speak with people i dont know for a single key. Things get super awkward at the end if anything goes wrong
jade hazel
All comms can be done at the start of key
I’ve booted ppl if they don’t say at least “hey” or “ok” lmao
When to lust, important ints, annnnd that’s it. Can share mdt but no one gives a shit to look. My biggest and only gripe with wow is the anti social lone wolf community
proper roost
the awkward silence of a bricked key...
in a sort of fucked up way, i find it supremely entertaining
lusty grotto
i will join if they ask me to
but asking other people nah, ive had way too many passive aggressive andies complaining after the fact
jade hazel
I’ve pugged least this season then ever and idk if it’s the people or the pools but it’s just, not been a good time this season
lusty grotto
i get unreasonably angry at the passive aggressiveness when they are in voice
lusty grotto
nah more like
this is the route
do you guys think its fine we can adjust
"i knew that pull was cooked"
its not so much an issue this exp or last
but in the past where routing and snapping were a thing... well yea
coarse bay
lusty grotto
ive actually have had better experiences as time goes on though
jade hazel
I would never and still have never said anything negative to a tank
lusty grotto
this exp wasnt bad in voice
jade hazel
Idc if they run me into a brick, I’m not talking shit to a tank
lusty grotto
people were very chill and throwing ggs without sass
lusty grotto
lol
jade hazel
It’s just a level of respect I have for them as a player choosing that role to begin with
proper roost
this person is wrong but also they're kinda based
lusty grotto
yeah the problem is they come into discord
again what do they expect
we want optimal shit, not feelgood feelcrafting
jade hazel
This has been said many times and I understand what they mean
coarse bay
lusty grotto
i mean hes right
jade hazel
But like, the fuck are we gonna do? Have hypothetical conversations about shit that can be proven wrong by a robot?
lusty grotto
but also you cant really swim against the current
jade hazel
i mean hes right
100% I miss running around in full rune armor in osrs thinking I was a god
Well, just RuneScape at that time
jagged pier
based
jade hazel
But I think that person and people that make those arguments are misguided and aren’t looking in the right spots for a social circle/guild that fits them
dIsCoRD rUinEd MaH gAmInG
coarse bay
Ya like new mmos or expansions are very fun because of discovery
But the world has changed
jade hazel
Its a lot more fun farming a boss on a super easy difficulty vibing with friends then smashing your face into a keyboard for 2% more health down on a boss but whatever
People think they’re gonna remember their CE achievement over vibes with friends 
proper roost
it kinda rules to play spreadsheet game actually ☝️🤓
solid sun
but also you cant really swim against the current
This has to be one reason why peak mmo experiences are a difficulty where you can get by doing whatever feels nice and you don’t need to be particularly concerned with what’s the most optimal
I have not fully built out this idea but it sounds good in my head
jade hazel
I feel like wow has moved that way
lusty grotto
discord is the same as the old forums EJ, etc
jade hazel
You can literally dick around and just do delves while fishing and have ok gear
lusty grotto
there is no difference, its faster, thats it
solid sun
Even outside of delves though
Like my aotc friends can kinda just do whatever. As long as they show up we will kill bosses
strong forum
True based and real
solid sun
Turning the dial up to mythic though feels like now we gotta try super hard
coarse bay
He’s still battling it out in frost mage disc but i gotta work
solid sun
Do you play pwar differently from what you know you should do
strong forum
That being said, I do play pwar correct
strong forum
Do you play pwar differently from what you know you should do
Nah but enchants and embellish sometimes vary
Especially embellishs, fuck those things
Literal least important thing ever
But people worry about it more than their mothers birthday
Half of s1 I played without a 2nd embellish in keys and still did 20% more dmg than 99% of people
proper roost
but you have to cUsToMiZe YoUr cHaRaCtEr
coarse bay
Team
The guy is arguing about how his dad was good in cata, completing the dungeons and raids
But now it’s too hard to do the current endgame content
lusty grotto
but if his dad is old, reflexes slowing down will hurt him
proper roost
using "my dad was good at raids" is honestly the funniest flex in the world
coarse bay
Im trying to tell him that endgame cata and mythic raids aren’t equivalent, and that current heroic raids are better to compare
Idk people have this idea that they should be able to complete all content
lusty grotto
yeah thats kind of true
proper roost
ragnaros was kinda hard
people were just worse at the game AND internet was worse AND spellqueuing was way worse
this is a significant triple whammy
coarse bay
Like my dad was considered good then too lmao, doesnt mean much when people were clickers
lusty grotto
just tell him to wait till midnight
and then he can see if his dad is fine or not
or the game
idk
proper roost
do NOT ask this about their dad
mighty valley
ragnaros was kinda hard <:critcake:984549832511344640>
FALSE
except
finding 40 people who were decent was hard lol
lusty grotto
ask what about their dad?
mighty valley
which is good because you didn't need them all to be all that good
mighty valley
oh lmao
proper roost
leg man
mighty valley
i responded without reading the full context... i will give myself 50 lashes
shut summit
cata rag was rowdy
proper roost
ok no need to involve us in your thing there
lusty grotto
jagged pier
finding 40 people who were decent was hard lol
U didnt need 40 back in day u need about 20 cause u could let half of them die
lusty grotto
also true
lusty grotto
jagged pier
Nice table 
proper roost
i think its unfair to categorize cata heroic as that much simpler except as an aggregate
its kinda like the moba skill thing
like conjecture that you take a diamond player now, back to 10 years ago and they'd be a god
but thats not how that works, playerbase skill kinda increases all together
lusty grotto
its comparable
coarse bay
I think that comparing old heroics to current heroics is mostly fair
lusty grotto
id say its comparable
to mythic
or at the very least, some of the fights we're in a weird halfway through both heroic and mythic
kinda like first boss diffy
shut summit
ya i don't really think it's super comparable cuz so much changes over time but always enjoyed keeping track of stuff like that
jagged pier
I just found my highest..... 
strong forum
using "my dad was good at raids" is honestly the funniest flex in the world
my dad literally wanted to cap PC time per day at 30minutes
sooooo
yeah
shut summit
I just found my highest..... <:Despair:1281513020702330890>
wat is it
jagged pier
Argus 704 pulls 
shut summit
holy wtf
jagged pier
Yes
Mainly because we had a holy pala that couldnt press bubble at the right time
We got someone with a holy pala alt to reroll eventually and killed it quickly after that 
Pull count in argus is funny 4 for coven like 300 for space man guy, and 704 for argus
shut summit
that's crazy
jagged pier
Yer dont know why argus took so long tbh 
lusty grotto
recruitment boss?
jagged pier
My cotank wanted to join the space race on aggramar thats why it took so long
lusty grotto
LOL
jagged pier
Not that i remeber it was a long time ago the charts not too bad its lioe a steady line downwards we just made very small incremental prog it looks like
Looks like p1 was an issue for us
toxic pewter
Me cute also
coarse bay
This is a discussion about the cutest, and why it’s @warm plinth
toxic pewter
True
lusty grotto
aww shucks 
proper roost
no offense apb but...
warm plinth
Wow
proper roost
good morning
bleak breach
yeah been pretty good thanks Nim. had a bit of a break, sadly we hit roster boss on dimi and called it
been good to have some time off wow though
bleak breach
yeah, would've been nice to get dimi. but we were either calling every 2nd raid or bringing people on alts or random fills which just wasn't working.
bleak breach
yeah, bad timing 2 healers pulled the pin over christmas period and nearly half the raid went on holidays
finally had a look through midnight changes, they seem decent enough?
lusty grotto
eh
yeah i guess
nothing to be sad about
mostly less skill expression but it is what it is
bleak breach
yeah, doesn't really look like any gameplay changes
lusty grotto
i might actually be on retail this week gotta get a few things finished before prepatch
proper roost
i need to relevel a druid
round pendant
Actually the most insufferable kind of person
warm plinth
Please rate my house storage unit
rich swift
Please rate my ~~house~~ storage unit
bro thats actually one of the most unique ideas ive seen so far
warm plinth
bro thats actually one of the most unique ideas ive seen so far
Thanks!
mighty valley
Hoarders: Azeroth
fathom oasis
Please rate my ~~house~~ storage unit
taking a girl home after a crazy night of raiding could get a bit awkward
otherwise very cool idea and well executed
limpid pawn
hey, is elvui and weakuauras discontinued even in classic wow?
coarse bay
hey, is elvui and weakuauras discontinued even in classic wow?
Classic should be unaffected, but you’d get some better info from a classic channel/server
Elvui 100% should still be around, since it’ll be staying in midnight as well.
I remember hearing weakauras would be fine in classic but im unsure if the addon devs will stick around for only classic, since they are dropping it for retail.
But if they dont need to push updates, the existing one wont be touched
jade hazel
WA said they were closing up shop like over a month ago
viscid lantern
So, we're all forced to switch to ElvUi now?
coarse bay
So, we're all forced to switch to ElvUi now?
No?
I personally advise against elvui
Getting rid of it was one of the best performance increases i saw
fathom oasis
Why would you switch to elvui now of all times?
When elvui is very likely to have many functionalities striped down
proper roost
elvui smh
coarse bay
I used it forever because it was easy and clean, with some cool things like ilvl on pieces for character screens
But i switched early this season and wish i got off that poop way sooner
I blame myself for watching preach back in wod
proper roost
the silver lining of the midnight changes is that you regain like
20 FPS
or more in raids
i wonder how they'll make healing work with controller
proper roost
oh fuck i just realized the main thing they're shooting in the face is nameplates huh
default nameplates 
warm plinth
There are still customizations possible AFAIK. I've heard plater still exists
coarse bay
Ya plater and another are still around but not as good
proper roost
do they show castbars on the nameplate
that's really like the main thing i care about tbh
although seeing that plater had (by default) spell cds on the nameplates was like
zamn that ruled. oh well
jade hazel
There are still customizations possible AFAIK. I've heard plater still exists
Platynator
Jundies has a profile
Closest thing I’ve found
proper roost
does it have castbars on the nameplate