protection

[tacit viper]

how do we feel about blood and thunder being target capped in midnight?

[round pendant]

Target caps are bad

Period

[unique girder]

how are you guys handling AK pull 1? I'm using Shocking pot, pausing at every crawler until tick, clapping the last stair pack G1, then charge/clapping into the crawlers downstairs G3, throwing at Flyers, clap avatar/clap, then leap into the crawlers G12, charge into the other side and to boss.
But it feels clunky waiting 1-2 seconds for the pot and I somehow always lose agro on a crawler or two.

[jagged pier]

I just vibe, heroic throw and charge and leap

[unique girder]

i swear every time i want to hold W and vibe out my healer somehow has more threat gen than me

[jagged pier]

Yer u have to tell your healr not to heal unless nessecary

Which if u are the only one doing anything, it shouldnt be

[unique girder]

does an Earth Shield tick generate agro? going over my vods I'm losing crawling while he's still mounted

[jagged pier]

Yer its a heal

U just gotta vibe and weave in TCs as u go

U can challenging too if u loose aggro

The big thing is they just need to run too u if they have mobs

[unique girder]

theyannoying part are the two flier packs, they are SO slow and I have to wait a few seconds for them to be togehter

[undone verge]

Ive given up on general aggro, healer or dps always proves they dont know how aggro works so now I make sure to dot all the mobs before I pull it into miniboss

[round pendant]

literally just clap and go

and I throw my axe at the fliers on each side (optional, depends if you want them they kinda ouchie) and troar when they're in range before crossing the bridge

healer has to heal so it's unavoidable that you gotta hit everything

[hearty cipher]

When I heal arakara, I just bark the tank and run close to him so even if I pull aggro, they can just take it from me

[thin minnow]

How do you do pulls in psf without dk? Sharpshooters are giving me cancer

[round pendant]

You just scream internally

Not really much you can do about the sharpshooter positioning

they sometimes just refuse to cooperate

[unique girder]

the closer everyone is grouped up, the closer the shooters will jump around

[mellow bridge]

Sharpshooters jump to players

Ranged need to be in melee

[vital vale]

would you guys pull this 2nd boss room area like this in priory? my groups handle pull 7 just fine with BL but wipe to pull 8. both pull 7 and pull 8 have 3 paladins and 1 priest but pull 8 also has a conjurer

i just feel like theres no time saving ways to do this room unless you pull 3 paladins twice

should i do a 4 paladin pull 7 with BL instead and do pull 8 with 2 paladins?

or should i split pull 8 into 2

or should i keep doing this and just hope healer can handle it

the alternative i guess would be this, but is BL enough to pull 4 paladins in pull 7?

[bleak scaffold]

4 paladin will be tough with the 4 AOE ... But with BL maybe it's more doable

Then you can connect maybe if the paladin dies fast.

For me Paladin should be the focus and then priest because you can kick the priest heal, since people don't like to kick they usually zerg the priest while taking more AOE from paladin :/

[vital vale]

well people in 15s and 16s that im doing definitely kick or they wouldnt get this high

im more worried about what the healer can actively handle

i guess ill try to pull 4 paladins with BL see if its doable

if not ill tank the party aggro

[sinful copper]

4 pallies is normal, then I usually do a single then double to reset cds

[fathom oasis]

#protection message

[lean furnace]

5th crafted item this week. What should I make? I only have heroic neck/rings at 704 as it stands. Everything else that's not a tier piece is already crafted or myth. is it worth making a new neck/ring or should I just craft a 2h for offspec fury/arms?

[jagged pier]

I made a neck

Ver mastery

I follow the robit, it tells me i do

[chrome falcon]

blizzard what if instead of a choice node we just entirely removed aoe revenge

how does that sound blizzard

[jagged pier]

Why we talking about new stuff when theres a channel for it?

[chrome falcon]

i don't know jakey why are you completely incapable of giving information in a vaguely normal way like "hey matt there's a channel for midnight stuff"

the mysteries of the world are truly endless

but im glad we can discover the answers together!

[round pendant]

[shut vigil]

723 tome or 710 seaforium for keys?

[paper stump]

Sim 5 bosses / 1m30secs and see

And of course your on your M+ talent

And dont forget Brand wont be simming properly, so it should be a fixed trinket no matter what if you have it.

[tribal wharf]

what is?

im just hoping on poking around at new stuff in game

my assumption is its a blizz wa for you got a proc for your major ability. just the sound part though

[dense rose]

Hello, I am trying to get into prot and wanted to get a better understanding block and crit block. I understand that mastery gives me a baseline % on every block to crit block which doubles the amount mitigated but is there any reason to have extra block chance from talents or mastery with shield block? Lastly, on the topic of talents how does shield specialization work exactly? When it mentions block value increase is it saying it allows block to mitigate more or is it saying it increases the base block chance?

[pallid quiver]

I'll start with the most important part, which is the last section. Block value is that stat you'll see on shields

You're correct with your initial guess, in that block value plays a role in how much damage is actually mitigated when you do block

For blocking in general, Shield Block specifically gives you 100% block chance.

technically, it doesn't mean you will always block everything coming at you; it'll still rely on your, uh, 100% + whatever your base block chance you have value to check how often you'll block

In practical matters currently, any values of block chance are completely negligible, since you should have enough shield block uptime to always be able to block any blockable attacks

[jaunty jacinth]

Chain paladins from pack 8 & 9 on ur DPS cds and ur group's AOE stops, otherwise it's usually a wipe.
The whole room should be chain pulled, u chain with cds or by finishing casters on one pack and chaining the rest.

[pallid quiver]

The only time at all in relevant content and context in like the past 8, 10 years I can think off of the top of my head where any of this matters was in Theater of Pain specifically.

There was a miniboss that would reduce your chance to block by 100%, so while shield block was up, you'd still have a chance to block somewhat

since again, shield block only gives you +100% chance to block, so you're at some value above 100% block depending on talent choices/mastery value

[dense rose]

Thats making sense. So something like shield specialization as a talent only makes sense if you expecting a lot of damage to be from physical otherwise there is probably better talents to choose in that tier.

[pallid quiver]

The amount you block technically depends on content and enemy mob levels; it's that stat you see where it's like "Oh you have x% to whatever against this mob"; there's behind the scenes tuning knobs that let Blizz adjust content values for balance and difficulty purposes

[dense rose]

Kind of like classic with hit rating

[pallid quiver]

Considering the number 1 source of damage in pretty much all content is blockable damage, it's probably one of the stronger talents on the tree defensively

Shield Spec is also your only source of static block value from talents; the only other source of block value is Brace For Impact

[dense rose]

With some practice if I understand right i should have near perfect uptime on shield block so base block chance becomes less effective as i get better right?

[pallid quiver]

Shield Spec's value comes from the block value, which makes your blocks better

It gives 16% for free, which is a pretty nice amount

the block chance part of the talent is entirely negligible and might as well not exist

[pallid quiver]

As an example, here's me just targetting a player in town showing the difference between having shield spec:

And not having shield spec:

This gets compounded even more with other defensives due to how damage is calculated, so it's a notable survival increase

[dense rose]

Thank you so much for the insight and i can see how the extra 4% matters when you consider crit block that becomes a big difference

[pallid quiver]

As a relevant aside, this is also why item level on your shield is so important, since it's the only source of block value from gear

[cinder nebula]

do u even need to use slam abilty as prot

?

[pallid quiver]

Our primary mit is entirely fueled by the block value stat, so any increases to it is extremely good

[cinder nebula]

guys

[pallid quiver]

Nope, it's a remnant from the levelling process

in fact, they're planning on having revenge just replace slam come next xpac iirc

[tribal wharf]

i have been actively advocating blizzard remove slam from prot spell book

since like, i cant even remember now,

make it hidden or doesnt auto show or put on the spell bar or removed, or ss IS improved slam (just evolves into it at appropriate level)

literal anything

[bleak scaffold]

it's been in the book and unused (unsable) for so long ...

[thick dust]

i believe in revealed talents revenge now replaces slam in midnight

[tribal wharf]

as an example, in doom i have brass knuckles to punch things if i run out of ammo

if i then find a chainsaw and run out of ammo later, the chainsaw appears first

because it deals more damage

rarely, you can find beserk that lasts till end of level but not garunteed and can still swap to fist if you really want to

it also very low priority puts me to rockets, which have explosive damage that i can hurt and even off my self with, if i run out of ammo for another weapon i am using

[cinder nebula]

is there good marcos for ignor pain

or do i have to spam it

afther every abilty

-_-

[lusty grotto]

you dont spam it

you use it at 70+ rage

[cinder nebula]

whats my main spender

[lusty grotto]

that is

and shield block

[pallid quiver]

By the amount of times buttons are pressed, Ignore Pain

[lusty grotto]

your job is to maintain SB

and to burn excess rage with IP

[pallid quiver]

But there isn't a "main" spender, since you have to press all of the rage spending abilities

You need to maintain SB, you need to have enough rage to press Revenge/Execute whenever you need to, and you need to not waste any rage

[bleak scaffold]

ho you play Doom ? I wouldn't knew ! of course it's ironic I recognized the player face from OG Dooms 🙂

[lusty grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/grandpa-abe-exit-confused-bye-bart-gif-7694184

[dark barn]

In midnight, the champion spear will always pull the mobs at start? Working like a replacement / aoe silence?

[dusky canopy]

@lusty grotto did you raid this week

[lusty grotto]

ye

[dusky canopy]

Any sick loots

[lusty grotto]

the 2h

also got heroic scream finally

[dusky canopy]

Let’s goo guys yoked

[lusty grotto]

well not finally, i had in my vault last week, this week, and then it dropped on the heroic reclear

and i got it

so i could pick myth chest over it in the vault

[dusky canopy]

Smart

[lusty grotto]

the wording is inconsistent but check in #1423009078099185674

so the answer here is we're not sure

cause it does say "affected", meaning they have to bit by it

[dusky canopy]

From archi

Works like chains

It’s fucking massive btw

[lusty grotto]

yup

[jagged pier]

[dusky canopy]

Bro you’re tellin me!

[dark barn]

Spicy

[dusky canopy]

Poglick is goated first time seeing that one 😂

[dark barn]

Aoe interrupt + Chains + Aoe Stun... thats a lot of mob control. Welcome Demorrior

[shrewd grove]

Prot stocks going UP

📈

[undone beacon]

Heres a meme we made after some Araz prog last night

and by we i mean i streamed my screen and opened tabs in a state of post-raid delirium

[lusty grotto]

lolll

[jagged pier]

Azaz will do that to ppl

[violet ginkgo]

Oh so spear now if you put in that area then pull all enemy affected to center?

[plush tendon]

bro... thats spear

[violet ginkgo]

ye the aoe is crazy big right

[undone beacon]

this is sick nasty

[jagged pier]

Just memeber guys we have #1423009078099185674

[undone beacon]

But Jakey it’s the middle of the day

badumtssss

[jagged pier]

[undone beacon]

Is alpha currently just limited to like, streamers and community figures?

Because I need to see some of these bear changes

Also bear stocks are huge right now

[dusky canopy]

It’s basically a who you know thing

[undone beacon]

I know a bunch of stinky prot warrs so

[jagged pier]

Rude but fair

U also know stinky bears so its cool

[frosty mango]

How are these wars out here doing 4m dps on frac

Are they sacrificing kids to get this ionizing strike rng

I don’t think my lack of brand accounts for 600k dps

[undone beacon]

just get brand 4head

[bleak scaffold]

you are not on the proper discord, it's on the demo one they sacrifice childrens 🙂

[solid sun]

Roid I do 6m*

*I don’t

So

Get with it

Surv isn’t happy with the changes :(. I had high hopes for the shotgun spec

[heavy sparrow]

Yeah idk. Brand doesn't sim anything for me, even with a 704 8/8 trinket

[undone beacon]

Yeahh the more i ruminate on it the more im sad

Shotgun is just retextured Fury of the Eagle

[solid sun]

Surv had feedback listened to pretty well this expansion so as long as they keep providing feedback I think they’ll be fine

[lusty grotto]

you need to sim 4mins+ for brand

or set it at max stacks with a custom apl snippet, which i dont have cause of reasons

[heavy sparrow]

Yeah that could be it - especially if we're always in combat

[orchid parcel]

Wait what stun/interrupt abilities do we have: Pummel, Shockwave, anything else?

[undone beacon]

Intim shout, Stormbolt

[lusty grotto]

shield charge

[undone beacon]

Shield charge

[mighty valley]

Disrupting Shout

[tribal wharf]

its all fun and games till you rage quit on sunlust

[frosty mango]

The rng is real

On our sale run last night our 704 alt tank outdpsed me on araz because despite having less thunder blasts than me he had 100 more ionizing strike procs

And it made me really think about how much rng on tier may factor into really high end parses

[shut summit]

ye it's a big swing

[bleak scaffold]

Well ionizing strike is quite something so it's possible that if you gave him all your procs ...

[shut summit]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-simpsons-simpsons-meme-simpsons-gif-the-simpsons-meme-gif-10262382804107605650

[bleak scaffold]

You know what ? we should sacrifice paladin, sure it will work better than childrens ! ho wait ..

[lusty grotto]

[frosty mango]

I don’t typically tank dimensius, for the p2 adds on the circle guy, do you guys typically drag him up and then move him back to stack after he does the aoe

Or just let the dps die if they are dumb

[lusty grotto]

yeah you drag him up

but you only really have to do it in the 2nd island, if heroic

[frosty mango]

P3 seemed simple

[lusty grotto]

ye

[frosty mango]

Stay away from group, face tank circles

lol

[lusty grotto]

no

you just stack and have it punch everyone

[frosty mango]

lol

[lusty grotto]

for the lulz

[frosty mango]

Honestly tanking so much easier than healing

Really need to just main raid tank next expansion

lol

[lusty grotto]

i dont think ill ever get back to tanking raid tbh

my guild's tanks are solid

i think i enjoy dpsing way more when the tanks are great players already

[undone beacon]

dpsing is so much more relaxing after being a tank

[lusty grotto]

in raid? idk

it could be but for different reasons

[undone beacon]

I also do shot calling while I tank though so I guess that adds to it

On sunday heroic night when i can just go survival and not say a word, im straight vibin

[lusty grotto]

i think im just spoiled by having great tanks in at least two guilds back to back

[undone beacon]

I've had good tanks but they burn out and now im the mediocre tank

[lusty grotto]

the weekend guild i was (well still am on pally) in last season has some meh players but both tanks were pretty good, and this season the guild im in has even better tanks

besides raid tanking not being as engaging sometimes

i feel like parsing on tanks requires you to have another capable tank

so its really a 50/50 chance

and then there's RNG

depending on the tier of the season etc

[frosty mango]

Healing raid is constant booty

The further you get into mythic the worse it gets

Fights like soul hunters and nexus king

[lusty grotto]

do you think the changes will alleviate it?

[frosty mango]

Everyone wants to call “oh I rotted out” and you go and look and they either ate a mechanic, or pressed no defensive

No because unless you can stop dps from being parse brained

Like homie I am doing THIRTY MILLION hps if you’re dying it ain’t on healers

I think the healing changes will be good though, less reliance on cd management and more skill play

[lament osprey]

New health pot is pretty goated btw

[lusty grotto]

indeed

[lament osprey]

Lot of people don’t use it

[frosty mango]

As it stands now a monk or a shaman can basically solo heal any throughput mechanic and the real check is an iq check for your raiders to not eat turf

[undone beacon]

biggest prog blocker in mythic i swear to god

we have the damage and the healing but if you keep dropping araz puddles on people then we're never killing the boss

[frosty mango]

A good monk with a proper Yulon window can push 30-40m raw hps and there’s nothing even remotely close to that amount of damage happening.

Shamans just press spirit link, but a proper ascendance cooldown send with a cloudburst is about to same hps

[frosty mango]

Are you putting adds in front of or behind the vortex

[undone beacon]

We've been doing in front with a knock

Which has worked well, except when somebody decides to tunnel boss and drop puddles on everyone

[frosty mango]

We do behind, it was easier with puddle overlaps

Dps couldn’t comprehend how to handle puddle overlap so now we just do behind and if you get puddle you just go further back

RDruids also push insane consistent raw hps just 90% of them don’t play properly

[lusty grotto]

we alternate

there are some we do in front

there are some we do behind

it depends on mechanics coming out

for example

[undone beacon]

We were doing behind but people couldnt manage to get to the back of the puddle in time without roar or totem somehow

[lusty grotto]

orbs coming out? raid lead calls out behind usually

he has the timing down for it so

everyone kinda knows

nothing else going on? adds front

and depending on stop cds etc

[undone beacon]

We also have a lot of knocks in our raid (bear tank, two mages, a hunter, evoker, three shamans) so we have the knocks to cover and people on backup, and then have everyone else just... not be near the marker. If you have puddle overlap run behind

[frosty mango]

Getting rid of shit like this is a good thing imo

[undone beacon]

We also keep bleeding out in 2nd pylon phase, its taking a lot longer than first and people are dropping

[lusty grotto]

consider lusting

at least for prog sake

[undone beacon]

i think everyone is saving CDs for big amp + lust after 2nd intermission

[frosty mango]

Second phase was a struggle for our dps but all of our healers are very strong so we covered it

[lusty grotto]

gotta juggle people too, cause cd timings

[frosty mango]

We usually get to like 8-9 stacks

[undone beacon]

We got up to 12 iirc

[frosty mango]

Is that because you’re losing people, extending the phase

Or is everyone alive at 12 and they aren’t dead

[undone beacon]

Most people alive at 12 and theyre not dead

sub 20% but not dead

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BgPp2vtZDALnHrmN

[frosty mango]

I don’t think that’s a cooldown problem I think that’s a dps problem

[lusty grotto]

yeah

but pash kinda knows

[undone beacon]

Oh yeah lol

We have a handful of underperformers for sure

and our monk was out

[lusty grotto]

just make sure you let people know what cds they can use

i.e. "hold 2 mins"

[heavy sparrow]

It totally is. Free 6.5m health

[lusty grotto]

"send 90s ones" etc

[undone beacon]

Yeah. Going to reemphasize that tonight and call it more actively

[lusty grotto]

if they are all holding, youre gonna have a bad time

but not every class is a 3 min, 2 min or 1.5 min class

[undone beacon]

Yee

I gotta sit down before raid and pour over these more too

If people tighten up we can kill it tonight for sure

and then go beat on frac

though honestly raid leading has taken all the love i have for mythic raiding out back and shot it

[lusty grotto]

find some help and delegate

[solid sun]

lol pash came to my raid and raid lead again

Was sick as heck

[jagged pier]

pash stop raiding lead

[solid sun]

Actually loves it but doesn’t wanna admit it

[jagged pier]

and just vibe

[lusty grotto]

the thing is

hes not just raid leading

what i suggested about cd callouts should be solved by someone else

and then relayed to him so he can communicate it

if he has to do both...

im not saying its not possible

it absolutely is

easily, but its work

[undone beacon]

I'm shot calling, putting together CD timelines, managing all the MRT and addon stuff, and main tanking

[lusty grotto]

yeah thats way too much shit to do

[undone beacon]

Yeahhh

Its why our old main tank quit the game

Our GM handles the roster, we have an officer that handles recruitment, I do what was listed + log reviews alongside the recruitment guy, and then we have a fourth officer that exists

(She's the GM's gf)

[lusty grotto]

ah yes

[solid sun]

When you say cd timelines

Does that mean all CDs

Or specifically healing ones

[chrome falcon]

that's a shitload of work but i guess if you're not handling any admin stuff it's not insane

[undone beacon]

Healing and utility mainly

[lusty grotto]

and now dps cds!

[chrome falcon]

but sounds a lot like a healer job

[solid sun]

Yeah why wouldn’t a healer do that

[lusty grotto]

healing cds should def be managed by a healing officer

[chrome falcon]

not every guld has one

[lusty grotto]

ideally

yea

thats very true

[chrome falcon]

we only got a healer guy who could do CDs like a tier ago after 2 expansions of not having one

[undone beacon]

Our recruitment guy is our healing officer but multiple requests from our healers for timelines have gone on deaf ears so

I've been delegating more healing stuff to one of our shamans

Which has been nice

[chrome falcon]

what WR are you? are you able to just copy healing strats off better guilds?

that's what i did but we're only 400-500 so plenty of guilds to steal from usually unless we're playing some turbo dogass comp

[undone beacon]

We're progging araz still so, yeah lol

[chrome falcon]

also i'm not sure what you mean by "maintanking" do you just mean that you try to take the hard/annoying tank jobs

[undone beacon]

Correct

[chrome falcon]

because my life got way easier when i made my cotank do every annoying/difficult job and just vibed

obviously a matter of whether you trust your cotank

[pallid quiver]

my life got a lot easier when i decided raiding and guilds was for nerds

[solid sun]

I’d love to help you out pash because you’re the homie forever but I suck too much

[undone beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/nubby-nubby's-number-factory-nubbys-number-factory-pet-nub-gif-10828535552509613360

I've got some people now that are willing to step up and help with like, raid plans and mrt set up so I'm going to start leaning on them. Thought honestly going into midnight I might just go back to being an aotc andy lmao

Raid used to be fun now its like a second job and that is stinky

[solid sun]

I know an aotc group recruiting

So

Easy transition

[lusty grotto]

yeah i did all that shit a long time ago

literally everything

including recruitment

[frosty mango]

Healers should be managing their own cd timelines

As a team

[lusty grotto]

why do you think i havent raid led since legion lol

its def more engaging with a team

[frosty mango]

And the reason I say it’s a dps problem is because at this point you do not need to hold lust for the second burn, ideally you’d pop list with all the collectors around 5 stacks and then catch the backend of lust

[lusty grotto]

but everything on your plate is bleh

[solid sun]

How many of the na homies would be interested in helping my squad get through H Dimmy this Tuesday :D

[frosty mango]

Popping lust AT the burn is inefficient bc he’s not gonna be in the full burn unless your dps are abysmal

[frosty mango]

By this Thursday do you mean today

[lusty grotto]

so today?

[unreal yarrow]

I healed for years. I would have been insulted if a tank started telling me when to use healing cooldowns.

[lusty grotto]

i have a raid today but im benched, let me see if i can help out on DH

[chrome falcon]

someone has to do it though 🤷‍♂️

you can't just tell your healers to CD when they want to and yolo it

[frosty mango]

You shouldn’t be a CE healer then because every one of your cooldowns will and should be mapped to a specific point

[chrome falcon]

otherwise you'll send 9 healing CDs on the first damage event and die to the second

[unreal yarrow]

Yeah, discussed in healer chat

[solid sun]

No Tuesday. It autocorrected me cause I did a bad spell job

[frosty mango]

What time Tuesday

[lusty grotto]

oh tuesday

[chrome falcon]

yeah but if the healers aren't doing it themselves (they should be) then idk what other option there is

if i was a healer i would definitely want control over my CD timings though i think it's crazy to delegate to a tank

just set like an hour meeting before each new difficult boss and figure shit out, especially if you're a slow guild and you can just yoink logs

[solid sun]

We are supposed to start at like 8:15 pm central time but we have to pug now and it can take a while to fill

Which y’all could help alleviate :D

[lusty grotto]

i have heroic reclears at 9:30 pm est

:\

[frosty mango]

I raid till 11p est but happy to hop in and help at 11

[undone beacon]

On tuesdays, potentially can pop in for a bit!

[solid sun]

I just want aotc done so I can start working on my dps arc and become Pash’s best friend

[undone beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/sopranos-tony-sopranos-gif-21377332

[lusty grotto]

let me see what i can figure out

ill hit you up if we reclear fast i guess

[solid sun]

My group pulled him for two hours and got out of p1 twice.

But we are going to try a bigger group next time. Instead of 2/2/6

[toxic pewter]

So wat the deal with the midnight stuff. We happy or upset

Haven’t looked into it much

[lusty grotto]

class wise

we're good

i dont think anyone has been upset about it except for very specific cases (revenge requiring 2 nodes, and rend vs blood&thunder)

but we've had discussions about everything else thats not warrior related heh

i.e. addons + combat pruning/skill ceiling design ideas into the exp

TL;DR i think its a good thing, but thats my personal opinion

[toxic pewter]

Yah they’re really shaking things up that’s for sure

[lusty grotto]

other people think differently

[toxic pewter]

I agree it’s a good thing

Deep wounds from execute I saw

Will that dot hurt actually

[lusty grotto]

they are moving away from dots trucking

so unlikely

[toxic pewter]

Ya

Ok

[lusty grotto]

but thats fine

[toxic pewter]

Ya I’m ok with abilities actually mattering more personally

[heavy sparrow]

I always looked at 2/2/6 groups like league of legends players

If you hate yourself play the game

2/4/14 or 2/3/9 I find to be much easier, and more forgiving as pug raid leader anyway

[kind urchin]

I really hope I get an alpha invite so I can see the changes. I like what I see on paper but can't really know without seeing it in action.

[solid sun]

I don’t have a lot of opinions about the specs because everything is so subject to change

The overall ideology seems solid though

[frosty mango]

I think less complexity can be good if they design the fights along with it

[heavy sparrow]

True

[undone beacon]

I mentioned before and I’ll mention again, people take the new designs and contextualize them into the current game and forget the shifts in design that are being tallied about

[heavy sparrow]

I'm all for it

@undone beacon so true

[undone beacon]

Take all the tank changes into S3 TWW floodgate? Yeah that’s hell

[mighty valley]

yeah... it's a complex system with moving parts, it'll take a bit to dial in

which we can be normal about or we can see a rough release state and scream IDIOTS a lot

[undone beacon]

These class changes are actually coming with legion remix

[frosty mango]

I mean complexity is relative right?

If the classes are less complex but the fights are designed to be more complex in context of class design

Is that a net negative?

I say no

Having less complex class design could open the door for more complex mechanics in fights and less dumb addon logic gates

[mighty valley]

i mean like... building all parts of the game is complex and will take time to get right with this changed vision

but yeah, agreed with what you're saying too

[frosty mango]

Like the lady vashj fight in ssc wasn’t logically complex - but the execution required teamwork and dynamic thinking - that’s what think of when I think of a well designed mechanic

You didn’t need addons and addons wouldn’t necessarily help

But it also wasn’t “easy”

[undone beacon]

Waiter waiter raid that’s all broodtwister

[mighty valley]

yeah - it's one of the earliest game design principles that "complexity" isn't the goal, the goal is depth

complexity is a cost sometimes worth paying to get depth

but complexity by itself isn't a virtue

[heavy sparrow]

Do you have a reference I can read of those changes for tanks?

[frosty mango]

Yeah but like fractilius is an example of complexity for the sake of complexity

Like the fight isn’t mechanically hard it’s artificially complex from a logic standpoint

[undone beacon]

I was doing a meme habibi

No tank changes for remix

[frosty mango]

If an addon can trivialize a fight then the fight was designed poorly to begin with

[undone beacon]

Frac is just such a weird boss

I can’t believe it ended up being fully solved

[mighty valley]

I can see how it sounded cool in someone’s head but yeah

[heavy sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-noted-notes-gif-26231953

[frosty mango]

Frac is a dumb boss imo

Functionally it’s
1 look at existing walls
2 determine which lane has less than four walls
3 call your lane so you don’t overlap

If you had 20 seconds to think then it would be a very trivial boss. The complexity is getting 20 people to solve the mechanic in their head fast enough

All the addon does is process that logic and tell you where to go

[heavy sparrow]

I'd like to see more tank-related boss fights like season 1 2nd boss & council, season 2 cauldron & trash rolling tank swap and season 3 Loom

[frosty mango]

It’s the time that makes it “hard” not the actual mechanic

And that’s why I think it’s stupid

[heavy sparrow]

I dig the the tanking mechs season 1 entirely

[frosty mango]

Frac would be infinitely better if the walls didn’t break and instead you had a stack phase with ramping damage per wall stack that incentivized you to keep them even and removed the concept of a safe lane, and then a break phase where you had to hard swap and dps the walls to break them - breaking more walls means less healing req

Which makes the entire fight a sliding soft enrage that you can overcome with either healer or dps skill

It would give groups agency

Instead we get temu Tetris

[heavy sparrow]

Its definitely a mech boss that's simple, but it does provide tanks any and all tank-related mech break which is kinda different

[heavy sparrow]

Receive these 3 items for free if you spend $60 for 7 things you have to buy first

[frosty mango]

Get 3 free wall breaks every third week with your manaforge members card

[ashen harness]

i see no pin for crafting

[kind urchin]

It seems like for Frac they were going for more reactionary complexity than mechanical.

[heavy sparrow]

Yeah like one of those "just popped cool downs mythic+ pack, next pack is chill before another good one"

[undone beacon]

Shield + wep unless you have myth shield and myth wep, then throw Dawn/duskthread on shitter pieces like wrists as you need

[ashen harness]

tyty

ye i had a shield, so i crafted a toothpick then

[undone beacon]

There ya go!

[proper nova]

Kill or be killed is such a sick new talent

Hype to proc it in AA tree boss room

[undone beacon]

Too bad it’s for fury

[lusty grotto]

was just about to say that

[undone beacon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148897941883584512/1413225493766996158/GIF_20250904_152124_523.gif

[proper nova]

What?? Thought it was class tree

NOOOOOO

Ugh

[undone beacon]

Fury tree capstone lol

[lusty grotto]

its fine we get improved last stand 🙂

[proper nova]

[lusty grotto]

double cheat time

LS + BSV

i just dont understand how Bolster is supposed to work now

but maybe Alpha people can say

[jagged pier]

#1423009078099185674

[heavy sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-really-stressed-mad-angry-gif-16109475

"read the damn sign guys" prob Jakey rn

[lusty grotto]

[barren cedar]

Does that mean I could just run with my Fury Gear and I'm generally good to go?

[lusty grotto]

yes

obviously with a 1hander and shield

[barren cedar]

Oh yeah the 2H probably won't hold up for too long

But is it still worth it to chase for secondary stats? I mean I did read the paragraph I just sent, I just wonder how Prot Mains gear themselves compared to it being an Off-Specc

[lusty grotto]

no

haste is important

the rest are whatever

there's a priority, but thats just min-maxing

all stats are good for us

[barren cedar]

Was that always the case or just cause Prot is insane in S3?

[orchid narwhal]

I swap between fury n prot p easily and do pretty well on both

[lusty grotto]

its been always the case

[orchid narwhal]

The part that sucks is no myth weapon and no myth shield

sepending on where youre swapping from

But otgerwise its p fine

[barren cedar]

Cause that's absolutely great to play 2 speccs on one char and learn tanking in general too

[lusty grotto]

sure

i do it

i raid as fury

and i do keys as prot

[barren cedar]

Are the weapon and Shield specifically still important or do they follow the same rule

[lusty grotto]

they are

shield obviously first

and then weapon for AP/overall dps

[dusky canopy]

I’m pretty sure if you enter priory as protection specialization with fury statted gear your character will implode and self delete the second a damage event happens

[lusty grotto]

LOL

[barren cedar]

I mean in like, getting a specific one for stats or whatever effect it has, like is there a considerable BiS weapon/shield

[lusty grotto]

you just craft em

if you dont have access to myth tracks

[barren cedar]

Okay fair enough, thank you for the info then :)

[barren cedar]

Worth finding out?

[lusty grotto]

hes memeing

[barren cedar]

yeye ik

[pastel sleet]

whats the fastest way to set a heroic lockout at soulhunters. we have 1 raider that needs boots and we dont wanna kill 5 bosses for one piece

do i just have to do it before raid and get there? or is there some sneakery i can do?

[tawdry cloak]

You could join a group at a boss or two before and just kill the one or two with them? I think?

[dusky canopy]

Suffer through first 4 on a alt once and then extend the lockout every week

[pastel sleet]

if i join an araz group and kill it. when i form a new group later would i be able to skip plexus and loom and soul?

[dusky canopy]

You form the group with the alt and inv everyone inside, you leave before boss is pulled

Hold the lockout forever

[pastel sleet]

i have today off so ive been tasked with saving the raid 30 minutes of useless reclear. normally we have a guy that does this but hes out

[plush tendon]

theyll have to edit bolster

unless it just reduces the CD of last stand to 3 min per proc

which is dumb

[lusty grotto]

yea

we will have to see

[plush tendon]

that and spellbreaker

pretty useless talents

thankfully, they stuck em on the side of the tree

so we can just ignore

[bright oyster]

Spellbreaker being gigauseless as a replacement to spellblock is so sad.

[lusty grotto]

it is, but the tuning was good so we dont really need a replacement

which is why we dont even play hunker down

[mighty valley]

everyone's gotta have some bad talents

[bright oyster]

Eh, bad talents can be improved to be situationally good tho. No reason to have a bad talent and just let it be bad forever. Just a #s game unless its just poor design a la spellbreaker. Should honestly have just pruned spellbreaker and kept hunker down, at least that has its niche

[lusty grotto]

sure

nobody is saying otherwise

harrow is just saying that not all talents can be insta picks

[bright oyster]

Fair 'nuff.

[mighty valley]

i do think it's totally fine if some choices are easy, it'd be exhausting to have a dozen different loadouts for different situations

but yeah, the choice node is pretty weird, just two talents doing the same thing

[lusty grotto]

thats an interesting take

i dont think its a big deal but i understand your reasoning

[plush tendon]

some choices should be ez no brainers; the talent tree is also part of the leveling experience

especially the ones you are forced to path through

luckily for warrior, our 'bad' talents are easy to just ignore since they arent in the way for pathing... still, they should be designed in such a way where there could be a case use scenario to use em

Spellbreaker legit has no case-use for its existence

[undone beacon]

Uhm, what if you wanna break spells

[lament osprey]

Cringe, do moar damage = less spells casted

[bright oyster]

I cast pummel

[thin minnow]

is there a haste and/or vers breakpoint that i need to try to reach?

[mighty valley]

you can switch to ITF for a dps boost if your haste is around 22-26k

otherwise nah

[thin minnow]

i'm sitting at 21840 haste, so it should be fine?

[mighty valley]

you'll likely see some gaps in SB uptime depending on how well you focus on it

[thin minnow]

yeah i do notice that i have some gaps

[mighty valley]

HR makes it easy

[thin minnow]

what's HR?

[solid sun]

Heavy repercussions

[heavy sparrow]

Play how you want

Best way

If you like faster globals go higher if you think you're in a good spot stack something else

[bright oyster]

Infinite haste stack gogogo

[wicked jungle]

Hi people, question about Mythic Dimensius' P1: did you have any spot healing or did you position yourself to get some passive healing whilst tanking or did you just hug center and that's it while selfsustaining?

[thin minnow]

can someone check my route for floodgate please? tell me if it is dogshit or okay?

[wicked jungle]

My pwarr is slightly undergeared (711) for the fight but I feel like I'm not completely off without any heals whatsoever

Not dying but still wanted to check

[lusty grotto]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57raLNtV-oc

here you go

[lusty grotto]

directly from Master Sense

[wicked jungle]

I literally checked this video before starting prog

[lusty grotto]

we dont self sustain

first of all

thats not what prot warrior is

but im not exactly sure what youre scared of

its literally the same positioning as heroic in p1

[wicked jungle]

I'm not "scared", I just asked a question based on the fact that I seem to dip a bit much with the HP

[lusty grotto]

ok well thats probably not an issue with positioning

but i understand you want to look at it that way as a crutch

do you have logs

and/or any idea what seems to be chunking you

is it just the rot damage?

[wicked jungle]

I did check IP and SB uptime as well, so that's why I was wondering if there's some spot healing missing or anything

[lusty grotto]

IP uptime is not important

[wicked jungle]

I do have logs, need to reupload tho

[wicked jungle]

Just melees mostly

[lusty grotto]

yeah well thats SB all the way

do you have myth shield?

im guessing you do right?

or at least a crafted one

[wicked jungle]

Crafted, yes

[shut summit]

you shouldn't really need much direct healing in p1 and p2, p3 can get kinda dicey

make sure locks put up weakness, they can spare a global whenever they are running around

[wicked jungle]

I'm trying to rule out external factors which are not connected to the gameplay as well

I'll send you two a log if you want to check

I've played ppal the whole tier mostly, I've only done Soul Hunters with warrior for comp reasons

So I probably have something to address

[wicked jungle]

I sent them now to you and @shut summit

[lusty grotto]

you have some sketchy SB uptime on some of them

but mostly its fine

[wicked jungle]

I'm trying to keep it up at all times, rage is not an issue and charges aren't either

I did swap out two execute talents for more def options (+armor and +block)

[lusty grotto]

are you looking to blame healers?

on that one death you didnt get a single spot heal

wipe 23

you shouldnt need healing also doesnt mean they should not drop a spot heal every once in a while

if you check the death that's around 40s of not getting a single one

its mostly group heals

but also yeah that one hit should have been blocked

[wicked jungle]

I am not planning on blaming them, but the whole intention was to understand if I actually am missing any heals whatsoever or if I'm playing bad

[lusty grotto]

you are playing incorrectly but for other reasons

remember to IP at 70 rage

and your CPM is kinda low

14 cpm on SS, should be closer to 20

[wicked jungle]

This yeah, the CPM part I'm honestly surprised because I'm literally playing whack a mole

But yeah, will look into that

[lusty grotto]

it could be the specific one im looking at

some of the wipes the CPM look good

[wicked jungle]

If you have any other comments I'm reading and implementing as we go with the pulls

[mighty valley]

you can always whack more moles

[lusty grotto]

like this one

SS CPM good

Revenge CPM bad, way too high

bad cpm all around

anyway this is beside the point

youre looking to see something completely different

though, to be fair, generating rage (by having high cpm on ss) and managing it correctly (by not using that many revenges) does add up to general defensiveness with wall resets etc

[wicked jungle]

I'm generally trying to improve the gameplay so anything helps really

[wicked jungle]

This might be because sometimes I have "nothing to press" and I use it

[lusty grotto]

thats kinda strange

youre playing SD

and thane

nothing to press can still happen but certainly not that often

[round pendant]

yeah you don't get that high revenge cpm from only pressing it when you have nothing else to press

[mighty valley]

check out a high mythic parse

[wicked jungle]

I'm trying to adjust meanwhile

[white olive]

if you havent crafted a 2h yet is it even worth doing? doing 10+'s alr

[mighty valley]

personally i wouldn't craft a 2h weapon for protection warrior

but you do you

[white olive]

hell yea totally posted this in the wrong channel lol

[mighty valley]

figured lol

[white olive]

be's like thiat

[wicked jungle]

I still feel weird that in some sets I get to BSV proc range and in some other I don't

While doing supposedly the exact same thing

[arctic finch]

when is the crest cap being removed?

[mighty valley]

in a few weeks i believe

[lusty grotto]

27th

[sinful copper]

21st

[lusty grotto]

yeah 21st sorry

[prisma crane]

43strd actually

[sinful copper]

I knew something Nim didnt

Yesssss

[lusty grotto]

yeah i kinda mixed in the 7th from the remix patch and track extension

[sinful copper]

Yeah I figured haha

[lusty grotto]

[fallen compass]

what buttons has prot warrior lost in the alpha?

[unreal yarrow]

Thunderous roar

[mighty valley]

thunderous roar, now we'll always just take spear

last stand is a passive

[lusty grotto]

thats kind of it

so you lose 2 and potentially gain 1 if you plan on going rend vs BnT

[frozen berry]

Gaining intim shout too

Because nobody taking it right now

[lusty grotto]

i take it

cause stun DR is aids

but yeah thats going away with midnight i guess

kind of

[unreal yarrow]

It's important because we can't easily track it anymore

[round pendant]

I'm a bit less doomy today

[toxic gyro]

Did they uncap the fear on ptr ? Or still 5 targets.

[nocturne spindle]

is uncapped

[frozen berry]

When are they expecting midnight to launch?

[lusty grotto]

people are guesstimating feb

[toxic gyro]

Pog, finally usable aoe stop.

[torn gulch]

late january prepatch late feb xpac mid march season

[sinful copper]

[torn gulch]

something like that

[frozen berry]

That seems pretty quick. I thought their calendar timeline was showing it in the summer

[undone beacon]

For legal reasons they have to put a date, the summer (June?) date is the latest it’ll launch more or less

Doesn’t mean it’s the hard date

[spark patrol]

Do you think the crit/vers belt might be worth it? I have hero track chest but I will be getting one from Plexus Sentinel at some point anyway. Both rings and neck are hero track, so I would look to craft one of these next.

[undone beacon]

[spark patrol]

For just dps mastery sims much higher than anything else but I would rather take anything else for def

[undone beacon]

If the question is do you want a myth belt over delve belt then the answer is yes

Mastery is fine

[sinful copper]

That belt seems nice

[mellow bridge]

Having a bit of mastery is also very good defensively fwiw

[lament osprey]

Can prot warriors solo soak on saladbar?

[signal trellis]

i believe so if i am thinking of the right thing but i havent done it on heroic yet so

[lusty grotto]

youre gonna need externals

[mellow bridge]

Every tank can with a bit of help

[lusty grotto]

you dont solo soak in heroic, people need to soak to get their oaths off

hes talking myth

[signal trellis]

ahh ya i know that everyone else does but i wasnt sure if he was talking that frontal thing that happens after that

[lusty grotto]

no

hes not talking about that

we can just reflect the frontal

and take 0 damage

[signal trellis]

ya thats why i wasnt super sure im more of a mythic player and just raid with my team two nights a week so we havent gotten that far yet

[lament osprey]

I figured, just wanted to double check. Since our brew is out for two weeks.

[lusty grotto]

yeah you wont have SR for the soak

cause youll be using it on the frontal

so... wall, demo + external, demo is probably not needed

[mellow bridge]

Some IP + demo + SW + some kind of external should be gucchi

[lusty grotto]

your milage may vary

[mint shadow]

has anyone posted footage of spear from the alpha yet anywhere?

[lusty grotto]

#1423009078099185674

[mint shadow]

oh, ty

[lusty grotto]

its the same thing but the area it covers is a lot bigger

[mint shadow]

got it

[heavy sparrow]

i just had a 14 HoA run with only 2 ravager procs da hek

[muted cliff]

Short question

What was the item to get it darker in eco dome?

[acoustic hearth]

hmmm

looking at shield spec

how is it not "troll" at this point

just cross compared dr from my blocks and the % bonus to block value

with a 720 shield its increaseing "block value" by 16% however the block value stat is getting dr'd to the point its actually only 8% increase to the flat damage dr from blocking

41.49% dr with
37.94% without
so flat dr from the talent is an extra 3.55% dr on each block.
41.49 is only a 8.5% increase to the block dr

so since the first half of the talent being block chance increase is basically useless since shield block is 98% uptime.
and the 2nd half is only giving half value to the dr.
and is basically "3.55% extra dr on blocked attacks." would other talents not be better? would u not get more ehp from 5% stam and 2% haste.
or even just taking cheat death

and with the block value stat already being dr'd this heavily at 720, how much more value will it lose to the dr when we get even more block value stat with a 729 shield in a week or so

[mighty valley]

it’s not real diminishing returns, the time to live increases linearly

in a defensive build you can take bsv too no problem

yeah the block chance part is meaningless but it’s like getting a bunch of free ilvls on shield

[thin minnow]

Can anyone take a look at this, hopefully it’s not garbage? Particularly around pull 6-7. Would this be rough for a prot warrior?

[lusty grotto]

thats not DR

as in Diminishing Returns

[lusty grotto]

compared to what

rough for a prot warrior compared to what specifically?

also this is a prot warrior channel not really a route discussion channel

[thin minnow]

Idk. Havent played any other tanks lately so im curious about the damage type intake and how much of it and if prot warrior is well suited to do that kind of pull at #7

And i do not see a route discussion channel so i asked here. If thats frowned upon, i wont do it

[lusty grotto]

ok so which tank do you think can do that pull

there's no such thing as a better tank defensively, this aint SL

or previous expansions

[thin minnow]

Alright. I’ll just take it as, “gitgud”

[coarse agate]

that pull is fine but very hard on prot warrior in keys 17 and above, I dont like that 4 pack onto boss and opt to pull the pack to the left of your first pull into 2nd pull instead

[lament osprey]

Pull 7 subtract and add to 6

both packs on bot right of 7

[lusty grotto]

that pull aint "hard for a prot warrior"

thats just wild

idk where this is coming from

[lament osprey]

Probably a 15 or something

Which is chill and vibe

[lusty grotto]

that last statement was 17s

the pull doesnt even have soldiers lol

[lament osprey]

O, usually just healer dif

[lusty grotto]

oh nvm it does

and to think i do this

just get dispelled

[coarse agate]

that pull is much easier than the soldiers and 4 pack into boss

[warm plinth]

You're looking at the number difference between x and y, when you should be looking at the % decrease between a and b. E.g. if I take 100k and block 45%, that's 55k. If I take 100k and block 50%, that's 50k, which is a 9%ish reduction, not 5% despite the difference between block reduction being 5%.

The "diminishing returns" you're talking about is not DR. Block value is not 1% block value = 1% damage reduction. It's a number that plugs into a formula based on the content you're doing, and shield spec increases that number by 16%. You do gain less reduction as your block value goes up because the difference in a and b (in terms of numerical damage) stays the same, while the %s increase. E.g. 100k reduced by 55% is 45000 while 100k reduced by 60% is 40000 which is still a 5k reduction, but a smaller % reduction than before.

The overall gain is not 3.55% though. It's around 7% more damage reduction compared to not using it (at current ilevel)

[thin minnow]

Thanks so much guys for the input and advice

[warm plinth]

7% more damage taken rather.

[thin minnow]

Really appreciate it

[lusty grotto]

wat

he asked about pull 6

his pull 6 is easier than the pull 6 i just linked

because it has 3 less soliders that are stacking dots on you

so im super confused

[lament osprey]

Just don’t do soldiers, easy

[lusty grotto]

what key level is this route for?

the one you posted

[thin minnow]

15s and 16s for now

[coarse agate]

mb guess I misread and thought he was asking about pull 7 and how the 4 pack on boss would be for prot warrior

[lusty grotto]

ok let me check that out

i mean

yeah its doable

if its staggered between burns

you dont want 5 soldiers into boss lol

[thin minnow]

I am trying to juggle stuff between pull 6 and 7

So both

[lusty grotto]

you can g31 into boss

[coarse agate]

this is the route I play personally, pull 6 is not worth doing without a dk though

at least not that way that I have grouped it

[lusty grotto]

you only need to grab one inspector

for that pull anyway

so a knock is more than enough

sorry a demolitionist i mean

the mid one into the other 2

and then just play stops on reloads

A DK isnt a hard requirement

but youre almost always gonna play with one anyway

either way

pull 7 isnt really a "pull everything at once" thing

you want funnel fodder

you can stagger the pulls into boss

g31 into boss at the start

and then g16+g28 after burn phase

into the snap spot if you do that

i usually just do the gather while the burn phase is going or late into it

[acoustic hearth]

so it still

dr's

as u said the formula gives less % damage reduction

the more raw value we have'

[lusty grotto]

thats not diminishing returns

[acoustic hearth]

define dimish returns

[lusty grotto]

not by the definition, its dictated by k values, its not the same thing

[acoustic hearth]

i mean

u get less

by having more

so the returns

diminish

[lusty grotto]

you can call it whatever you want, youre free to do that

[acoustic hearth]

kekw

[lusty grotto]

but in terms of this channel DR means secondary caps

[thin minnow]

just 1 more question about that route.. if there's no dk in the group, what should i do about pull 6? do i do it in 2 pulls? or get % somewhere else and ditch g17?

[nocturne spindle]

ive tried arguing with them that the caps are softcaps and diminishing returns are their own thing

theyre weird about definitions

[lusty grotto]

well, its semantics

just better to have a concise and standard way of communicating both

for the sake of understanding, and any lurkers that are around

[acoustic hearth]

i mean

if this was darksouls

it all would be

drs

[solid sun]

We ain't playin' no darksouls 'round here

[lusty grotto]

i mean

if we wanna get very specific

one is math-wise a result of being indirect proportional to a constant

[acoustic hearth]

sure but

semantics aside

[lusty grotto]

and the other one is a lesser derivative after certain points

[acoustic hearth]

it works the same as dr

[solid sun]

Woah woah woah if you wanted to knock me out you could've just given me a solid nightcap

[acoustic hearth]

wait does that mean stun dr isnt dr either?

[lusty grotto]

it doesnt because it doesnt have "stages"

and diminishing returns in WoW do

aka softcaps

[solid sun]

I feel like the conversation has diverted quite a bit

Did we handle the block value question thing with regards to shield specialization?

[acoustic hearth]

stage 1 2 3

[lusty grotto]

K is a constant

[acoustic hearth]

full stun

50%

[lusty grotto]

it never changes

[acoustic hearth]

25%

immune

[lusty grotto]

what

now youre speaking CC

look

call it however you want

does it make sense to you the way you say it?

then thats fine

we will def not do that here

but you do you

[solid sun]

I don't abbreviate anything.

[acoustic hearth]

well i said stun dr

[lusty grotto]

ive already explained the reasons why we dont wanna do that when speaking about it

[acoustic hearth]

as in cc diminishing returns

[lusty grotto]

okay, but ghash and me are talking about block

and secondaries

[solid sun]

So I actually had a follow up question about what this person brought up

What's actually increasing by 16% when you take the talent?

Like the value on your equipped shield?

[lusty grotto]

the block value

and yes

[mighty valley]

cc has diminishing returns because you get very clearly less out of the same application

god I didn’t think we were going back to the vanilla “does armor have diminishing returns” argument

[solid sun]

I'm not much of a deep dive under the hood and see how it all works kinda fella

[round pendant]

what is this argument

[solid sun]

I just take whatever Nome says and try my best

But it's neat to learn stuff

[lusty grotto]

it doesnt really matter

its just semantics

so 🤷‍♂️

[acoustic hearth]

your explanation does make sense however end of day the more shield block the less valuable it becomes

[round pendant]

any increasing flat number has diminishing returns technically as what you gain is a smaller percentage of the overall

[lusty grotto]

thats incorrect

[round pendant]

but that's not what people are generally talking about when they talk about DRs in wow

[acoustic hearth]

im just curious bc on archon it doesnt recommend the shield spec talent whatso ever

[solid sun]

yeah wel archon isn't even a real person so

[lusty grotto]

how does having more block mean its less valuable?

[mighty valley]

archon doesn’t recommend anything, it just spits back the most popular choices

which are influenced by popular streamers etc

and self reinforcing

[acoustic hearth]

You do gain less reduction as your block value goes up because the difference in a and b (in terms of numerical damage) stays the same, while the %s increase. E.g. 100k reduced by 55% is 45000 while 100k reduced by 60% is 40000 which is still a 5k reduction, but a smaller % reduction than before.

[round pendant]

wtf is that equation

that can't be right

[mighty valley]

but yeah if you don’t believe blockable physical damage is threatening to you at all, go nuts, take a different talent

[lusty grotto]

thats the right equation

[acoustic hearth]

whats k

[round pendant]

oh nvm I need glasses

lmao

[acoustic hearth]

what are k values and where do i find them

or just give me a k value

[lusty grotto]

idk youre the expert

you did math there

[round pendant]

Simply because for example 100 block -> 200 block is proportionally a larger improvement than 200 -> 300

[acoustic hearth]

i did math but didnt find k value

didnt know there is a k value

for all i know "K" stands for bitches nim doesnt get

[mighty valley]

i’m getting diminishing returns from this conversation

[round pendant]

yeah true

[round pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/um-weird-chloe-ok-dumb-gif-22145221

[lusty grotto]

oof right in the ad hominem

[round pendant]

k value is something blizzard tunes afaik

and it's diff in different content

idk what the number is, just make it up it doesn't matter

[lusty grotto]

i know what the number is

[solid sun]

K

[lusty grotto]

[solid sun]

I crack myself up

I'm my own best audience

[acoustic hearth]

if number is static, and we know it why is it -k and not just - that fuckin number

lmfaoooo

[round pendant]

huh

[acoustic hearth]

unless its a new number based on being in key or raid or lvl of content

im mostly memeing with this one

[round pendant]

It's different depending on mythic raid vs keys for example

and it changes sometimes

it's also completely irrelevant to the topic

[lusty grotto]

kinda get the vibe

[solid sun]

Rogue needs to be good again

[lusty grotto]

that we're doing the "im stupid answer me people" thing

[round pendant]

well, I got bad news buddy

[lusty grotto]

kind of like 1guying the answer out

https://tenor.com/view/car-drive-rat-selfie-steering-wheel-gif-4944199

[solid sun]

https://tenor.com/view/realkimdahyun-rhino-dead-gif-21335364

[pulsar epoch]

guys what is the highest keys can we play as pugs ?

[undone verge]

17 18 probably

[nocturne spindle]

i have half the 18s done pugged

[pulsar epoch]

well im missing only 17 flood rn

gues im finishing game

[nocturne spindle]

every key level has floodgate and priory as the wall

[pulsar epoch]

lul

[lusty grotto]

unsure if we should tag val'kyr for it

but that certainly seems sus

cyrillic sus

[tacit viper]

hes posted that exact msg in several channels

[lusty grotto]

lol he posted in #report-dms

[tacit viper]

lol

[lusty grotto]

or it, rather since its very clearly a bot

on a hacked account

[idle needle]

if its an actual person they'll dm someone asking why they were banned

but thats 100% a scam

[lusty grotto]

ok ill hit you guys up if it happens again

[idle needle]

NODDERS

[warm plinth]

Winning like a mofo in pool

[lean furnace]

Is crafting a ring or neck fr or trolling? They’re the only 704 pieces I have left except some tier pieces

[lusty grotto]

do you have shield and weapon?

and embelished bracers and belt?

[lean furnace]

How do you do 5 for the gators? Just a heroic throw and run to boss?

[lean furnace]

Yea all the above

[lusty grotto]

then send it

[lean furnace]

Only things under 720 are tier pieces and jewelry and one trinket

[lusty grotto]

yeah sure go right ahead

youre at the point where you just cover ilvl with crafting

so its not trolling at all

[coarse agate]

my healer pulls it for me during pull but you can heroic throw and wait for them to snap then get threat and go boss

[heavy sparrow]

I keep getting bots asking if they can ask a question

[idle needle]

yeah what can dp

[undone beacon]

Well can they

[lament osprey]

Okay solo soaking as warrior is pretty chill

on salad bar

[heavy sparrow]

Started classic a while back must say the aggro and threat is something else

[fallen compass]

So the new talent prot is getting where blocked attacks add to ignore pain, are they in essence trying to make us press it less and more rage into revenge

[warm plinth]

Not unless they also greatly reduce the amount of rage we generate. IP is still our main spender.

[fallen compass]

But if IP is getting constantly fed and maintained through blocks why would I press it over revenge

[warm plinth]

Because how much IP we have is not what determines whether we press IP

[fallen compass]

Ok what does

[warm plinth]

Rage

IP is a rage dump that just happens to have the bonus of providing survival. At least, that's how we treat it from a gameplay perspective.

[fallen compass]

Ok so why wouldn’t u just dump into revenge if the new talent is maintaining the survival

[warm plinth]

Because revenge is on the global cooldown. We already press revenge when tc/ss are on CD and we aren't at risk of overcapping.

[fallen compass]

Still don’t see why u wouldn’t press it

[warm plinth]

We already press revenge as much as it fits into the rotation. Pressing IP less does not let you revenge more.

[fallen compass]

Sure it does caus that rage has to go somewhere

Can press it more

[warm plinth]

Revenge does not compete with IP in the current season. It competes with every other spell on the gcd.

[fallen compass]

I’m
Not talking about the current season

[warm plinth]

If you need to spend rage and you have the gcd available, you press revenge. We often don't, leaving IP as the default button.

Until you can see into the future and tell me exactly how the spec is going to be then, what the fuck else are you going to base this on

Unless they fundamentally change how the spec works, nothing will change

[fallen compass]

Sure if u say so

[warm plinth]

If we end up playing colossus, you'll already revenge more due to lower rage generation and tb not being a thing. If we play thane, we'll be exactly where we are now

[lusty grotto]

hes right

but it does depend on rage gen

an offgcd like IP beats a gcd every time

except when rage intake slows down (like with colossus)

also if rage gen is consistent with this season, we save a talent point into revenge potentially

as thane

cause we already prefer execute over it when conditions align as a GCD

i.e. being executable, tabbing to executables, etc

but even then execute is a gcd, so it still loses to IP

faster rage consumption = better

anyway #1423009078099185674

[obtuse spindle]

anyone have a handle on when i should stop pushing haste? crafting longsword rn

[lusty grotto]

28k rating

more or less depending on how comfy you are maintaining SB

percentage need not apply

rating only

[obtuse spindle]

helpful

ty

[restive oak]

isn't 28k a bit high?

[frosty mango]

Depends on how good you are with sb