Surv issues on an 11 is not the fault of the talents choice for sure, specially if you are already running MSV
#protection
round pendant
I finally stopped being lazy and switched to almost exclusively using a focus kick
it's so op
sharp gale
Im still using my random kick macro
sharp gale
Yes it has a focus macro in it when I want to be more serious
/cast [@focus,exists,nodead,harm] Pummel
/stopmacro [@focus,exists,nodead,harm]
/focus target
/cleartarget
/targetenemy
/cast Pummel
/target focus
/clearfocus
/startattack
undone beacon
i cant use a focus macro cuz im too focused on MYSELF BABY and i dont wanna interrupt my flow
mmmhm
solid sun
Do you tend to just spam delves for alt gearing
fathom oasis
Yes it has a focus macro in it when I want to be more serious
/cast [@focus,exis...
What the actual fk is going on in that macro lol
bronze wraith
I have a Dawnbreaker question. Tried an 11 and one pull absolutely fucked the key. Third miniboss that shoots the orb, you are supposed to go around back and pull with the pack there right? We had like dps die 6 times and I dont know if I wasn't supposed to pull there
solid sun
I have a mage and rogue both that need gear and are too baby for even lfr
undone beacon
I have a Dawnbreaker question. Tried an 11 and one pull absolutely fucked the ke...
this pull?
fathom oasis
I have a Dawnbreaker question. Tried an 11 and one pull absolutely fucked the ke...
Under the little roof yeah
sharp gale
What the actual fk is going on in that macro lol
The two first line is just the focus kick macro, the rest is just a tab kick + return on initial target basically
fathom oasis
Whoever gets targeted needs to aim for the open space
undone beacon
its a pretty standard pull. sounds like a party skill issue
solid sun
I have a Dawnbreaker question. Tried an 11 and one pull absolutely fucked the ke...
I pull that pull to the overhang and try to position so that no cameras are harmed in the making of the film
bronze wraith
That was a nightmare. A bunch of people died in the underhang and a dps wiped us with the orb on boss too. I got my vault at 11, but that was bot a great first 10+ for the season
fathom oasis
That was a nightmare. A bunch of people died in the underhang and a dps wiped ...
Did you log it?
fathom oasis
Rip
11 is basically the same as a 10, but you get worse teammates because skilled people are either doing 10s for the weekly or 15+
round pendant
if the miniboss is lined up with the arch behind everyone
it just requires them to aim it correctly
if they shoot it into a wall you're screwed
fathom oasis
11 is basically the same as a 10, but you get worse teammates because skilled pe...
You'll see way more missplays in an 11 than a 10 because of this
bronze wraith
I think the key holder blamed me in the end. I have a 8 dawnbreaker and 8 arakara at the time.
fathom oasis
The slight damage and health increase is mostly irrelevant
sharp gale
that random brazier
fathom oasis
We'd need to see a log to form an educated opinion
solid sun
Eh
Not necessarily
If you stopped the group in a way that it was easy to aim the orb then you pulled it correctly
naive panther
Queue your 11 as a 10 then ninja slip it in
bronze wraith
*that random brazier*
That is what killed us on the boss
solid sun
If you didn't, then yeah you probably made an oopsie
fathom oasis
Queue your 11 as a 10 then ninja slip it in
I've had that being done to me twice already
I consider it to be a bit rude
sharp gale
That is what killed us on the boss
I know because it happened to me in a 14 
round pendant
They need to redesign the whole thing
bronze wraith
The pull had 2 oopsie. First someone fu ked the orb, and second on the way back after, they pulled the nerubian
sharp gale
I've never seen that happen
The ball hitting the brazier ?
dw you will witness it at least once
round pendant
no someone pulling the spider guy by the 3rd miniboss
fathom oasis
I always pull the boss way back, since they removed the nerubian
solid sun
I move the boss to where the lamp post is because I can use it on the tank buster to avoid the knockback
Which isn't far away
sharp gale
Even if I combine S1 and S3 I never see that dude pulled yep
round pendant
idk if you guys know, but the orb will fly over the fountain behind you if you get the orb on you
fathom oasis
Just charge and it's free rage
solid sun
The lamp post is foolproof
round pendant
the lamp post kills your dps uptime
solid sun
No it doesn't
fathom oasis
If you are slightly far from the boss as he kicks, you can insta charge
round pendant
I had to learn to move back so my mistweaver friend could heal
sharp gale
Moves the boss too much when I do the charge
Replace him because the mf brazier
solid sun
Everyone is on the boss and so are you
It's just a little skinny pole
In no way does it mess with uptime
fathom oasis
If you are slightly far from the boss as he kicks, you can insta charge
(But still within melee range)
bronze wraith
The nerubisn behind the boss is gone, but there is one at the gate that pats under the awning. It is fine except someone pulled the bastard flying back
fathom oasis
Oof
I always ping my position several times while flying
In an effort to avoid people landing where they shouldn't
Then again, you can't control every player in your party
Tough luck, go agane
Dont be discouraged if people flame you while pushing lowish keys. In most cases, if they truly were so good they wouldn't be doing that key with you
Just focus on improving whatever you feel you coulve done better. If you log your keys you can share it and ask for feedback
rancid sedge
anyone here to help me check a log and route for 15s
minor aurora
not bad for a afternoon
bronze wraith
It was fine until people died and flew back. I did 10s in s1 and dawnbreaker feels way smoother now
terse oriole
random routing question: how do you skip this mob? I keep seeing it not selected in routes I'm seeing
grim pilot
Pull it left, can prob with meld pot but usually ive had someone else do it
warm plinth
Yeah I have seen it skipped via meld pot in higher keys
terse oriole
ah got it meld skip that makes more sense
lusty grotto
that is a useless skip
grim pilot
Wdym useless
terse oriole
ya it's not a big deal mostly curious
grim pilot
U don’t wanna play any sentinels
lusty grotto
that route isnt even taking funnel mobs into first boss
lusty grotto
U don’t wanna play any sentinels
youre assuming its super high
grim pilot
Yeah his route is probably bad seeing 2nd pull but skip is still good
Its good to know if u wanna progress further
lusty grotto
if its not taking funnel mobs in, do you think its really gonna be a high key route?
so why skip the big guy at all
grim pilot
2+3 should not be together lol
minor aurora
2 it's funnel mobs into boss
minor aurora
you can chain the 2 guards or the 2 small mobs
on 15s and 16s the guards are ok, maybe later you prefer the 2 small
vestal epoch
I just did that sim thing and no one uses the items it suggested
minor aurora
2+3 should not be together lol
let
it rip bear
but 2 + 3 should be one chain or 2 should be 1+2 chained and save small adds for 2 + boss
whatever you like
and 4 must have the 2 50% health gorgers to skip the sentinel
solid sun
What if I wait until the boost
And not do any of that
Because it sounds annoying
Except the funnel part
I like funnel on the boss
That part is neat
minor aurora
i can't see the 5 pull, but it looks like another sentinel skip with the 3 guys on entrace + the 3 mobs on the end of area 2
vestal epoch
What’s the point of simming? Can’t you just use murloc and use what the top 100 wars use?
vestal epoch
But wouldn’t you just be farming for their gear anyhow?
keen plank
Farming for a specific set of pieces is kind of a trap, TBH. You should be simming every drop you get and then using droptimizer to decide what to farm. There's more than one set of gear that will get you within a % or two of "BiS".
warm plinth
No? Because their gear is the best for them, not you. It's silly to think you're going to somehow achieve the best ilevel of the best pieces in a vacuum
Because that's very very unlikely to happen
vestal epoch
But if they are using mythic gear wouldn’t that piece of mythic gear be best regardless of ilvl
warm plinth
No, ilevel is better than stats
More stats will virtually always do more for you than specific stats
solid sun
You also have no real control over what drops for you
vestal epoch
I understand that. I am saying if you are lower ilvl and only run +6. You would still want the same gear they have?
Then when you can run +10 you want that same piece but it will be higher ilvl
vestal epoch
You also have no real control over what drops for you
Ya but if you know what’s best in slot you would run that specific mythic
warm plinth
The piece you want is the piece that's the best for you at any given moment. Generally that will be ilevel. As you gear up, what you have vs what you come across in vault/dungeons will determine what you take next, because what is best for you changes based on what you have, not what x random person has or what x random bis sim has
solid sun
bis lists are only bis when you have every piece of gear in the loadout. When you don't have that exact loadout, different pieces of gear will be best for you
warm plinth
Best in slot is only best in slot in that very specific set of items. It doesn't mean you should go for this item because it's the best possible item period.
Yes, exactly what he said, sorry. Hit enter before reading.
sharp gale
I understand that. I am saying if you are lower ilvl and only run +6. You would ...
Because you simply can’t farm the same gear as them
And they have this gear because themselves can’t farm the bis gear
warm plinth
Exceptions can be made for trinkets because they do more than just stats (or grant stats in specific ways that are not normal)
vestal epoch
So you guys are saying the same set of ilvl 690 gear is not best in slot for ilvl690?
sharp gale
No because 690 is not max ilvl
warm plinth
Why would anything be bis at 690
vestal epoch
lol never mind
warm plinth
That's the opposite of best, you're not even max ilevel
If I have the set of gear on wowhead that's "bis" but at idk, 697 ilevel
Then it doesn't matter.
sharp gale
You drop 1 myth item from your vault invalidates 99% of the list
warm plinth
Because why would you specifically refarm all of those exact pieces
When you may never get them at myth
vestal epoch
So the only thing you are basing everything off of is mythic vault pieces
Because you can farm all other gear?
warm plinth
You can't farm any myth gear
Which is why bis lists are dumb
Most guide writers only even have one because they get clicks
and wowhead/icyveins makes them have one
Same reason tier lists exist in any form
vestal epoch
Then why do the top players all use the same shit
sharp gale
- picking the best option each week (with smol side consideration) : you will have THE BEST gear you can have today and close to the best gear you could ever get after 10+ iterations
warm plinth
They don't
It's literally a point of contention in here all the time
"Why is so-and-so using this; I thought it sucked"
warm plinth
I'm not really sure what you want out of this conversation tbh
fathom oasis
I think there is also a caveat here that is not being discussed
vestal epoch
I don’t understand the point of simming lol
warm plinth
Then don't. No one is making you.
vestal epoch
The top players sim
fathom oasis
People in murlok.io usually have a coordinated group and are running keys that require strats that you just won't use
warm plinth
And we explained why they do. Unless you have exactly their gear, their sims mean nothing to you.
fathom oasis
I don’t understand the point of simming lol
Say you only watch murlok.io, and most of them have a crafted shield
solid sun
You're going to have moments where you don't have the same gear as them, so even if you trust that you should wear exactly what they are wearing, how to you determine what to wear when you don't have their stuff?
vestal epoch
And we explained why they do. Unless you have exactly their gear, their sims me...
I guess that’s what I don’t get… if they are the best why wouldn’t I just shoot for everything they have
fathom oasis
Now you get a myth shield in vault
Will you skip myth shield bebause people in murlokio run crafted one?
vestal epoch
Will you skip myth shield bebause people in murlokio run crafted one?
lol I guess I would
fathom oasis
Most of them run a crafted one precisely because they havent gotten it from vault yet
sharp gale
I don’t understand the point of simming lol
The point of simming is to see your maximum dps with what you wear + what is in your vault + what you could reasonably get in the current week basically
vestal epoch
Well that was my other question is your simming basically based off of myth vaults
solid sun
Do you jump off a bridge if the first 10 people who come across it decide to jump off it, too?
fathom oasis
Lets not strawman
vestal epoch
Do you jump off a bridge if the first 10 people who come across it decide to jum...
Well this is a video game…
round pendant
Do you jump off a bridge if the first 10 people who come across it decide to jum...
I'm a trendsetter, I'll be #1
round pendant
Lets not strawman
That's not a strawman
fathom oasis
But for reals, in retail you need to go through a lot of pieces to achieve what is supposedly full bis
sharp gale
Do you jump off a bridge if the first 10 people who come across it decide to jum...
Tbf I see 10 ppl jump I look down the bridge to see what is going on
fathom oasis
Until you get to that point you want to be as strong as you can be
Thats what simming helps you figure out
solid sun
Tbf I see 10 ppl jump I look down the bridge to see what is going on
Right, you're going to gather information.
sharp gale
Clicks
round pendant
it's one specific gear set that sims the highest
that's all it is, it's useless for pretty much everyone
vestal epoch
it's one specific gear set that sims the highest
But everyone uses the same 2 pieces in each slot so it’s kind of specific gear
fathom oasis
no one ever gets the full bis list
Surely some people manage to get it? I'll never be that person though lol
round pendant
I don't think so
fathom oasis
Guessing dinars make it somewhat more feasible
vestal epoch
I mean murloc shows it but I dunno
round pendant
Getting every single piece at myth track
keen plank
But everyone uses the same 2 pieces in each slot so it’s kind of specific gear
That's just factually incorrect though. Outside of maybe trinkets and rings / neck.
sharp gale
no one ever gets the full bis list
You kinda get really close at the end, if you mythic raid CE etc, but like even in S2 I was not full bis : absolutely 0 items was a gain
round pendant
Murlok is statistical based on what players are using tho isn't it?
lusty grotto
Well that was my other question is your simming basically based off of myth vaul...
for what
round pendant
You kinda get really close at the end, if you mythic raid CE etc, but like even ...
Yeah you can get close, but it's not realistic to get the idealised gear set, especially not for anyone here
fathom oasis
If murlok io determined bis, items would never change
Yet they do
From week to week, as those people get their vaults and change their gear
lusty grotto
that is 100% true
keen plank
Like I said in my earlier post, there no one true BiS list. There are multiple sets of gear that can get you within a % or 2 of the theoretical top DPS. Simming yourself is the most reliable way to trend yourself towards that ideal.
fathom oasis
Why would you want to chase one iteration of what they are wearing
grim pilot
Like I said in my earlier post, there no one true BiS list. There are multiple s...
2% is a lot
btw
lusty grotto
Like I said in my earlier post, there no one true BiS list. There are multiple s...
actually you are 100% correct
fathom oasis
As some sort of gear heaven
keen plank
Sorry meant tenths of a percent. 😅
vestal epoch
Why would you want to chase one iteration of what they are wearing
I would assume the top who play 24/7 would have the best shit
lusty grotto
I would assume the top who play 24/7 would have the best shit
vault is rng
so why would they
sharp gale
Yeah you can get close, but it's not realistic to get the idealised gear set, es...
I discovered the gems + enchants etc, just slightly change stats dist + snowball effect change multiple personal bis
round pendant
I think the bis list on wowhead shouldn't exist
lusty grotto
Nome and Mwahi agree dont worry
round pendant
most of my friends misunderstand it
round pendant
yea I figured it was something like that
fathom oasis
I would assume the top who play 24/7 would have the best shit
Nah, they are just getting whats strongest at any point
vestal epoch
But how do we not know bis?
fathom oasis
And it changes as they raid and open vaults
round pendant
we know bis
fathom oasis
We do
round pendant
it's just not feasible to get that gear set
keen plank
But how do we not know bis?
By simming every combination of gear.
lusty grotto
But how do we not know bis?
we do know it, its just not possible until you get very lucky
vestal epoch
I’m a lucky dude where do I find that 😆
lusty grotto
whats bis is the combination of gear that sims highest
its not bis before you get the complete set
fathom oasis
Also, any bis piece may not be YOUR bis piece, because Bis gear is when you combine all of it
lusty grotto
and only bis if you have EVERYTHING
round pendant
Sim tells us a specific set of items (in that specific combination) that sims the highest
lusty grotto
and at myth tracks, and ilvl capped
round pendant
an item from the bis list might not be an upgrade for you even tho it's on there
because your have differing items in different slots
sharp gale
And I’m pretty sure trinket included, so if you change trinket 
fathom oasis
Good example: crafted bracers. They are bis, but individually a set of mythic bracers from the raid in mythic difficulty would be better
round pendant
A certain distribution of stats = highest dps. That gear set gets you the closest, but if you have a bunch of different stats in different slots compared to that set your stat distribution is way different
and different items will be an upgrade
sharp gale
Yeah but I imagine S2 bombsuit = change your whole perfect simmed gear
fathom oasis
And again, Murlok.io has people doing 19s or whatever
Bis trinket in a 19 may not be bis on a 10
Same with talent specs
round pendant
There's an insane amount of combinations of different slots of gear
the chance of you landing on the one true bis is just not likely
sharp gale
- not everyone of them has cleared the raid yet
round pendant
so you gotta just sim and take the upgrades, best you can do
fathom oasis
Ofc, you can ask about sim, but saying simming is useless is crazy lol
lusty grotto
if youre simming ST, you can sim 3 mins or 5 mins
vestal epoch
I said it seems useless
lusty grotto
if youre simming for keys
vestal epoch
I guess I just assumed the top people had bis
lusty grotto
you sim 5 target patchwerk 1.5 min
fathom oasis
I guess I just assumed the top people had bis
Nah, but they do usually mythic raid, sometimes in groups where they are priod, so they get more "bis items" than most
vestal epoch
What is st?
vestal epoch
Ohhh
lusty grotto
also youre simming 1/6 myth?
do you get 1/6 myth by farming these dungeons?
rhetorical question
vestal epoch
lol I don’t know I’ve never used it
lusty grotto
sim 4/6 hero
then when you get vaults, you sim the vault contents -- or use this #protection message
azure crag
you can't block the spike from king salad bar, right?
I can turn my back to it and look at the stars and be alright?
lusty grotto
you can't block the spike from king salad bar, right?
I can turn my back to it a...
check the sheet
azure crag
sheet?
lusty grotto
carmine topaz
Considering wowanalizer is not updated for the current patch is it still worth using just as a more user friendly overview of stats? I've noticed the warcraft logs parse % doesn't match what wowanalizer displays and some other stuff doesn't work that well currently
lusty grotto
or in #protection-faq
lusty grotto
Considering wowanalizer is not updated for the current patch is it still worth u...
be careful with it since it has weird metrics for IP that are not important
the rest should be okay i guess? idk, i wouldnt rely on it
you can just ask us
and if youre worried about anything just anonymize it
carmine topaz
That's fair, I love the breakdowns they do though. It's cool to check how I can improve in certain areas
fathom oasis
be careful with it since it has weird metrics for IP that are not important
Did anyone say IP?
carmine topaz
Just checked my last run pull by pull. Seems like I do quite well on AOE pulls but my single target is lacking a lot
lusty grotto
we used to have abelito to update it for prot but hes MIA
fathom oasis
Listen I have a bar...
lusty grotto
and have been since mid DF
carmine topaz
That's a shame
round pendant
Listen I have a bar...
fathom oasis
you can't block the spike from king salad bar, right?
I can turn my back to it a...
Afaik that's starshattering and no, it's neither reflectable nor blockable
azure crag
Oh, so does spell reflect not even reduce the damage it does, then?
lusty grotto
yes it does
as long as its magic
when it says NO it means whether it does damage back or is deflectable
fathom oasis
It says physical on the right tho
lusty grotto
oh well in that case, then no
azure crag
mmmm....good to know. I thought that missle was magic damage, but he seems to have a special missile that hits the tank for physical.
That isn't blockable.
fathom oasis
Maybe it's the skill on top?
Check the actual skill names and verify using dungeon journal
azure crag
unless that star shattered is a debuff and not an attack?
fathom oasis
We are merely pointing you towards the sheet
lusty grotto
i have no idea what attack youre referring to, but logs will tell you
sharp gale
Physical is damage type 1
azure crag
Yeah, the line to break the stars
lusty grotto
shattered is just the damage when they blow
solid sun
Yeah you can tell he hits you with starkiller because he's trying to kill you, and you are a star
azure crag
I was just wondering if I could turn away from the boss to aim my line a bit easier.
And from the look of it, it's not blockable, so it should be fine
lusty grotto
Yeah you can tell he hits you with starkiller because he's trying to kill you, a...
no u
solid sun
aww ty
lusty grotto
I was just wondering if I could turn away from the boss to aim my line a bit eas...
yup you should be fine, as long as you dont have the boss on you
fathom oasis
I was just wondering if I could turn away from the boss to aim my line a bit eas...
You can, yeah, and you can SR to reduce its damage, too
lusty grotto
though tbf i dont think he melee's while hes casting that so
should be fine either way
solid sun
If you really want to style on him, try spell reflecting and /dancing at the same time
Very demoralizing for saladbar to be so disrespected
subtle moon
How does keeping shield block uptime work?
lusty grotto
what do you mean
subtle moon
In terms of keeping it up near 100% of the time, how does this work?
lusty grotto
well you press it and maintain it
but its only doable with Heavy Rep
the talent
Into The Fray, is better but it has a hard minimum to use it of haste rating (21k)
subtle moon
Oh ok.
lusty grotto
and you will probably never get to a 100% with it
but as long as youre at 90%+ on effective uptime youre fine
subtle moon
How does 90% uptime work?
lusty grotto
im not sure i understand the question
subtle moon
Not sure about it going off wowhead rotations?
solid sun
Are you asking how we handle not having full uptime on shield block?
Or are you asking how we achieve 90% uptime?
subtle moon
Or are you asking how we achieve 90% uptime?
How 90% uptime is achieved.
subtle moon
Oh I thought there was some interaction with abilities I was missing here.
lusty grotto
Shield Charge also applies it
so its kind of like you pressed it
the only interaction is with Shield Slam and ONLY if you have Heavy Repercussion talented
solid sun
Are you just kinda prepping for being a pwar? Or have you already tried it out and have been confused by something pertaining to SB?
lusty grotto
yeah i guess that's a good question
subtle moon
Are you just kinda prepping for being a pwar? Or have you already tried it out a...
I am new to tanking all together.
lean tangle
I knew when i got Tome week 1 on Mythic 0 i was going to screw my loot luck. 30 runs and no hero tome.
solid sun
Big gratis
lean tangle
I just want my hero tome and ceaseless ire. Game is giving me neither
subtle moon
Also welcome to the world of tanking, MasterSigs
fair enough, where are the dungeon routes located at btw?
solid sun
threechest.io has some, I believe another website is keystone guru?
Also raider.io has a weekly route page
You can also sometimes ask in here and sometimes people have a route they particularly enjoy they can offer
subtle moon
Oh yeah makes sense.
solid sun
But for just starting out, assuming you're doing smaller keys, there's absolutely nothing wrong with just hitting the classic W route
lean tangle
Keys are pretty forgiving this season. Even if your route isn't optimal you'll probably still +2 it unless people die
Even if people die you still probably +2
boreal heath
How much does it hurt your damage to be sniping outburst in aoe with ss instead of tb
boreal heath
Ye my IP+SS macro has been sniping my outbursts in aoe quite a bit
lusty grotto
it shouldnt be doing it a lot
boreal heath
I find it I notice that it does quite a bit especially in cases when I'm flooded with rage
lusty grotto
do you have logs
boreal heath
Yeah
lusty grotto
you can probably use it to calculate the damage loss
boreal heath
how do I do that?
lusty grotto
filter by outburst and look at casts
it wont be an exact number but
might give you an idea
multiply the amount of SS casts by the average damage of an outbursted TB
x 5
im not particularly sure if average damage is per hit, so if thats the case then its x 5 after
because if you wanted to get a more precise number you would have to do math with the drop off damage after 5 targets
but would be more tedious
lusty grotto
because
its
not
a
self
healing
tank
you
prevent
damage
not
react
to
it
want a self healing tank? play BDK or VDH
frigid plume
its like asking why prot feels dogshit when you fight at range lul
sterile orbit
ohhh that makes sense we prevent dmg
acoustic hearth
my hp to dead
limpid ruin
Why does prot feel so fucking bad at healing the rest of the party 😡 . My resto warrior dreams are dead
acoustic hearth
just feels like
if my hp falls below
75%
theres no recovering
like im stuck at 75% max for the rest of the pull
also fuck execute high key
shit rage starves me so god damn much and not having ignore pain up
is just
me falling over
lusty grotto
sounds like you dont understand how to play us
lusty grotto
🫡
undone beacon
Everyone has preferences! If you don’t like prot that’s okay habibi
solid sun
Well like it is okay, but imagine having to play vdh
lusty grotto
dense cradle
Well like it is okay, but imagine having to play vdh
vdh is fun on big groups
kinda cbt on one target
vagrant echo
Imagine thinking you need self heals as prot warrior lol
That’s never been the game fam
sharp gale
Tbf the first week of S2 as bdk I was making myself terrified by it
When swampface hit me, 95% of my hp removed
acoustic hearth
Imagine thinking you need self heals as prot warrior lol
i mean, magic dam makes my hp drop a fuck ton
spell reflect has a cd
sterile orbit
leech helps
dense cradle
Tbf the first week of S2 as bdk I was making myself terrified by it
sometimes idk the point of blood draw when its perma on cd
lusty grotto
punish is up if youre targetting prio or whatever hits you the hardest
TB debuff is up by default
acoustic hearth
TB debuff is up by default
the movement speed reduction?
lusty grotto
acoustic hearth
i mean sure i have all these things going but it still feels like magic dam chunks me where phys is a non issue
lusty grotto
you gotta be more specific
sterile orbit
magic hurts bleeds hurt
acoustic hearth
the
sterile orbit
kick and move out
sterile orbit
yes
lusty grotto
read the sheet
sharp gale
sometimes idk the point of blood draw when its perma on cd
It’s like the will of the necropolis, blizzard slaps it on the tanks they can’t fix, brew got it too
lusty grotto
sterile orbit
so walk away from it
lusty grotto
or in <#1266837564925673596>
acoustic hearth
so i can outrange it
sterile orbit
yep
acoustic hearth
but cant side step it
sterile orbit
ya it follows you
acoustic hearth
then how do i maintain rage gen when the rest of the pack sits there
sterile orbit
your not out there for more then a global or two
acoustic hearth
thats fair
sharp gale
- you can revenge, thunderclap and thunderblast out of melee
acoustic hearth
maybe im just undergeared and frustrated idfk
dense cradle
It’s like the will of the necropolis, blizzard slaps it on the tanks they can’t ...
weirdly enough dps dk also has will
acoustic hearth
but i think 698 with 4 set is plenty geared for a +12
sterile orbit
ya that sounds fine
lusty grotto
should be
dense cradle
i mean it should be
sharp gale
weirdly enough dps dk also has will
Yeah but it is a bdk old shit
sterile orbit
4p gaming
dense cradle
Yeah but it is a bdk old shit
yeah moreso it doesnt suit a dps spec
idk prot war damage intake is way smoother
sharp gale
They added a similar effect to brew
dense cradle
than most tanks
lusty grotto
be careful of going too hard too fast without correcting mistakes that are avoidable
dense cradle
could be a dumbass like me and thought you were supposed to eat dailcry's spears week 1
acoustic hearth
im just in this minds set of
dense cradle
and wonder why my ass was getting eaten raw
acoustic hearth
my dh is resil 15s and has 16s timed
sharp gale
idk prot war damage intake is way smoother
Our minigame doesn’t consume our mitigation like bdk, nor it has a max amount like brew
acoustic hearth
warrior is "bis" way better than dh why am i not
keeping up with it even though i picked up pwar this season
lusty grotto
the answer is, its a different play style
dense cradle
i mean, isnt brew technically the "best"
dense cradle
Our minigame doesn’t consume our mitigation like bdk, nor it has a max amount li...
yeah no boneshield feels giga spooky
sharp gale
All tanks are very good design, just prot pal might need some tuning fix
sterile orbit
try ppal personally i think ppal better for higher keys cause u can save dps
lusty grotto
All tanks are very good design, just prot pal might need some tuning fix
every fucking time there's a prot pal tunin fix
what happens??
every single
fucking time
slim dove
lusty grotto
at least since DF
sharp gale
I can recognize they need something, since they die in raid, but yeah, they always steal our fun
sharp gale
Yes
lusty grotto
he does both
sharp gale
If he can ppal he would
lusty grotto
but he loves ppal
dense cradle
yeah tbf i think most tanks have a preferred tank spec
though i hear the most active dislike of bear
lusty grotto
yeah tbf i think most tanks have a preferred tank spec
yeah thats accurate
sharp gale
I kinda like bear being the simplest as an identity
lusty grotto
bear isnt heavily disliked
dense cradle
bear just throws me off
lusty grotto
i mean by streamers
dense cradle
i was like looking for where my active mitigation
for the longest time
beyond ironfur
lusty grotto
personally im a fan of dotc, but i heavily dislike elune
sharp gale
Imagine ironfur is shield block and IP mixed together
You rage dump in your Shield block basically
And incarn = unstoppable force thunderclap = thrash?
lusty grotto
You rage dump in your Shield block basically
ideally up to a certain point since you dont wanna do that past armor cap
which is 3x IF if im not mistaken
the rest you can use on maul, regen etc
dense cradle
i thought ironfur just upped armor
sharp gale
It is
Just us and brew don’t have our minigame about armor
Shield gives the armor + shield block
Just think every tank have a main thing they need to maintain to survive melees
mortal cypress
Brew has that stagger thing though. Haven't touched monk for years but that was weird and healers didn't like it
sharp gale
Yes brew has stagger, healer dislikes brew when it becomes a bdk because of stagger damage
sharp gale
They have passive block but they maintain shield of the righteous (armor)
dense cradle
and consecrate
mortal cypress
Did you purposefully get 3 DH or is it not ur grp? I guess they wanted some sort of leather stack?
lusty grotto
leather stack for a 15? 
mortal cypress
idk man, I dont do keys that high
was just trying to understand why 3 dh, why no ranged etc etc
mortal cypress
lmao
3 ranged is generally bad cos the kicks are on a 3 week cd
so one missed one is ouchy
lusty grotto
yup
boreal heath
i joined a priory with 3 warlocks a couple of weeks ago
Would've been funnier if the healer was a priest
warm plinth
i joined a priory with 3 warlocks a couple of weeks ago
We did 2 destro lock and fury war and uh...not good XD
solid sun
idk man, I dont do keys that high
Sometimes I tell myself I love the idea of trying to push my io as high as I can or maybe even give title a genuine attempt
But then later on in the same week I realize that people do some crazy stuff in dungeons that doesn't sound fun at all and just stick to 3k and a li'l extra to feel like a top shelf gamer
mortal cypress
But then later on in the same week I realize that people do some crazy stuff in ...
im not even at 3k rio....I fucking hate M+ with a passion cos its just 20+ min of GOGOOGOGGO
solid sun
Yeah, I think there are a few things that I find particularly neat because it helps some people shine
Like if I grab a couple mobs and take them to the first ED boss to enable funnel specs to do their thing. I think that's real neat
But then sometimes, keys aren't neat like that in my eyes
Like, for example, last season some groups were doing a whole seal team six espionage CIA black ops mission through the goblin dungeon
In that area before the first boss
No thanks
I'll pull something almost gauranteed and then everyone will tell me the key is bricked and it's time to quit
sharp gale
When I tank my push keys (I don’t this season) I always do the most safe route ever until I break because timer (I never change my +10 route, I did all 15s)
solid sun
Do you pug
sharp gale
This season I push as dps and mostly in pug rn
I started with guildies and friends but they stopped
I do a tank m+ break until midnight
solid sun
See this season when I pug, which here lately has been more common than normal, if I'm not doing whatever the route is that pugs have agreed is the only way to time the key it's just constant pinging and bellyaching
Even when the key goes well and we time it, "Yo this route is dogshit" lol
sharp gale
Thank god I’m not tanking, I insta leave when I’m annoyed more than once
solid sun
I genuinely think sometimes I should just disable chat altogether
Or I zone into the dungeon and I start getting my food buff and I'll get pinged and someone pops off in chat about needing b.shout
Instantly just so annoyed
Can I get my food buff real quick? Yeesh
sharp gale
Yeah I still get the battle shout pls ofc
It’s always a caster asking for battle shout smh
solid sun
lol
In a perfect world I'm operating at full zen
Sipping on some sweet tea
And none of it bothers me
This week has really grinded my gears, though
sharp gale
I did a big pug session Saturday, it was really pleasant, every runs were civilized people
Even when we failed we told the tank what was wrong etc, I thought I wasn’t playing wow
solid sun
Sounds super nice
sharp gale
Usually the bracket I’m in this late in the season is full toxic (15s-16s)
solid sun
I guess tbf I'm def feeling some tank fatigue. Doing it all expansion long is getting tiresome.
lusty grotto
thats very normal
cerulean olive
FREAK SHIT, DIDNT GO
solid sun
Asked the squad if anyone had any babies that needed baby keys so I could do some rogue stuff or mage stuff and everyone acted like it was impossible someone else could be a shield icon lmao
somber moss
How many soaks do yall like to get on the 2nd boss of priory? 2 or 3?
somber moss
Yeah, even with shield wall up right
lusty grotto
i do first then wait until it drops then grab another
you can easily do 2, wait it out and grab another
but i dont bother
somber moss
If it's like a 15 more then one stack is rough if its a baby 3 or 3 is fine right?
2 or 3**
frosty mango
just had first boss of eco randomly turn and melee my dh to death
he gets ressed, boss immediately turns as soon as hes ressed and melees him again
excellent job blizzard
solid sun
That DH really pissed the boss off, eh
frosty mango
this season has so many bugs it really almost makes you want to quit
mortal cypress
just had first boss of eco randomly turn and melee my dh to death
Boss: Oi, you're that Gary that called my wife fat in the pub!
DH: SPLAT
Don't DH do a silly amount of threat though? cos of eyebeam and shit?
solid sun
this season has so many bugs it really almost makes you want to quit
Take a peek at the Sin rogue discord. Their pinned messages are like a novel of bugs
frosty mango
I was doing 7 million dps i dont think he pulled threat
mortal cypress
ah
frosty mango
and even if he did he wouldnt have died immediately after he got ressed lol
solid sun
I'm guessing the boss wasn't close enough to dead for it to be salvagable
frosty mango
no it was like 30 seconds in
mortal cypress
yeah DH has a talent that reduces threat by 8%....which suggests to me threat is an issue generally for them, but no, he shouldnt get instagibbed twice if you are doing that much damage/threat
unless he taunted....
frosty mango
that was dps in the 10 sec window he died in
latent badger
For funsies, just macro all your abilities with taunt.
latent badger
My bad with caps.
solid sun
Who was doing 15 mil
frosty mango
rogue
acoustic hearth
Also why don’t we take the cdr for shield block talents
Since 100% shield block uptime is so important
lusty grotto
the what
lusty grotto
no
acoustic hearth
Weird
Figured there would be a node like feed the demon that gives cdr so u can have 100% uptime
undone beacon
Heavy Repercussions adds 1 second to your active Shield Block when you shield slam, maybe what you’re thinking of
acoustic hearth
Heavy Repercussions adds 1 second to your active Shield Block when you shield sl...
Ah yeah that
lusty grotto
thats not cdr
acoustic hearth
thats not cdr
Ik im not at pc so couldn’t remember if it was cdr or duration extend
lusty grotto
we do take it
when we're under 21k haste rating
over 21k haste you go ITF because its results in both more rage and more dps
acoustic hearth
Itf?
acoustic hearth
Wait why does haste make more haste more valuable
lusty grotto
because percents dont DR
acoustic hearth
I get itf wouldn’t dr
acoustic hearth
Ye
acoustic hearth
But wouldn’t more uptime on shield block mean more defensiveness
vital vale
all my homies like percent
vital vale
But wouldn’t more uptime on shield block mean more defensiveness
haste reduces shield block cd too
acoustic hearth
Just trying to figure out how to keep 100% uptime on block bc if it falls off for a second I feel as if I fall over
lusty grotto
the higher your haste AFTER the 21k dead minimum requirement for it, the smaller the gaps
well play HR if youre under
you shouldnt sac ilvl for haste
vital vale
HR Is a decent training wheel talent tho if you are new to protwar/tank feel free to use it until you feel comfortable enough to dump it
but you will inevitably dump it
acoustic hearth
HR Is a decent training wheel talent tho if you are new to protwar/tank feel fre...
Gotcha
I’ll try it out for more training wheels
Bc I also find myself hard clutching dstance
solid sun
We all use D.Stance
vital vale
battle stance is trash. only use it on bosses that have 0 mechanics that kill you
lusty grotto
but havent really absorbed anything
i swear to christ ive been over this with you
all of it
acoustic hearth
we all dstance anyway
I thought it was try to use it as defensive but use bstance bc more damage
vital vale
I go to battle stance for last boss dawnbreaker this season and thats about it I think
solid sun
No.
lusty grotto
I thought it was try to use it as defensive but use bstance bc more damage
fuck no, this aint DF
acoustic hearth
That’s what wowhead says to do 😭😭😭
lusty grotto
acoustic hearth
lusty grotto
youre heavily misunderstanding anything Nome put in there
vital vale
read less, play more
acoustic hearth
I’m not saying your wrong just citing the sources that made me come to my conclusions
lusty grotto
especially skipping that part i put in here
solid sun
If you stay in D.Stance 100% of the time, the worst you're doing is missing out on a particularly unimportant component of damage optimization
lusty grotto
vital vale
you can stay in dstance 100% of the time and its fine at even the highest levels of content. you can use bstance for some silly optimizations but really its no big deal, especially for those training wheel period you don't need to worry about it
lusty grotto
if you skip that highlighted portion
you end up doing what youre doing
"Because of this..." means you understand that part
acoustic hearth
I see I see
lusty grotto
and everything under it is based on not actively tanking or content that's not dangerous
you never stop actively tanking in keys
that's a raid thing
lusty grotto
and dont give your back to mobs
which you should already be doing as VDH
because god help you if you cant parry some shit
acoustic hearth
And I may take some talents out of execute dam buff and execute hp% range to take some other beef talents like the “cheat death” and extra hp+ haste
sharp gale
Heroic leap in the middle of the pack, like a good vdh
lusty grotto
And I may take some talents out of execute dam buff and execute hp% range to tak...
nah
thats not what you need
sharp gale
lusty grotto
at all
acoustic hearth
Heroic leap in the middle of the pack, like a good vdh
Lmfaoo fastest way to die
lusty grotto
youre doing 12s
thats baby keys
dont talent out of "execute talents"
talents are not whats killing you
acoustic hearth
I just find
lusty grotto
the only talent that you will swap from the weekly build is ITF vs HR depending on your haste
acoustic hearth
I execute and rage starve myself
lusty grotto
then dont
acoustic hearth
So wouldn’t it be better to avoid executing
lusty grotto
learn to manage your rage
plush tendon
I learned a new thing
you can walk two steps away from gloom bites
and it doesnt hit you
bold remnant
hey guys, whats the best way to prevent ppl kicking into ur reflects, just a yell macro?
dense cradle
augusto do you have brannmorpher
lusty grotto
hey guys, whats the best way to prevent ppl kicking into ur reflects, just a yel...
that will make em kick harder, you've been warned
acoustic hearth
you can walk two steps away from gloom bites
Gloom bites?
dense cradle
or what does professional mole mean
plush tendon
Gloom bites?
the creepers in Eco Dome
plush tendon
augusto do you have brannmorpher
sharp gale
hey guys, whats the best way to prevent ppl kicking into ur reflects, just a yel...
It would be better on a weakaura, but a macro is fine too yes
sharp gale
But they will kick it anyway
lusty grotto
it will make it worse
bold remnant
that will make em kick harder, you've been warned
true, another question.. if im playing execute build and execute the target that is 35% hp, does the other target get executed if its above that %?
lusty grotto
the only thing that actually makes a difference is telling them to not kick boss before you engage
lusty grotto
true, another question.. if im playing execute build and execute the target that...
yes
sharp gale
You will /say reflect, while there are 3-4 casters, no one knows what you will be talking about
acoustic hearth
Ik u said ignore pain isn’t important and I should execute instead but
acoustic hearth
I feel squishy wi th out ip up
lusty grotto
youre not executing all the time
only in execute range
but no you shouldnt feel squishier without it
if youre playing SD so help me god i will find a way to ban you from this discord
acoustic hearth
but no you shouldnt feel squishier without it
Why wouldn’t I it’s a 50% Dr no?
sharp gale
You are getting backshotted I guess
acoustic hearth
50% damage taken absorb*
bold remnant
or just manual targeting?
frosty mango
lusty grotto
any helpful macros tips regarding that build? to benefit the most from it
mouseover execute is pretty handy
frosty mango
how bout this banger of a talent
sharp gale
50% damage taken absorb*
See it as : just an absorb that let 50% damage go through
bold remnant
isnt that awful since u have no control over it?
frosty mango
isnt that awful since u have no control over it?
yes its probably the worst talent ever made
lusty grotto
it'll eat the entire damage
acoustic hearth
ik sb> ip
dense cradle
worse than bolster?
bold remnant
mouseover execute is pretty handy
i swear i have trouble mousing over specific targets on big pulls, idk what im doing wrong
sharp gale
Storm of steel Mich
sharp gale
Nothing is worst than storm of steel
acoustic hearth
Wym damage checks
dense cradle
the hell is that
sharp gale
Oh yeah they removed it for prot mb
The 2 charge ravager but -30% dmg you don’t know why, it is still on dps smh
dense cradle
oh one of the rav caps
mighty valley
yes its probably the worst talent ever made
how far back are we going
frosty mango
how far back are we going
the history of wow, i cant think of worse
lusty grotto
oh indom was pretty fucking dogshit when it was first introduced
glad its back right at that point
bold remnant
do u guys manually look for the 35% hp target? or have a customized plater that changes hp bar color?
mighty valley
in vanilla a bunch of classes had a talent for “a percentage of your health regen in combat works” which were INSANELY bad
lusty grotto
the line moves obviously depending if you have massacre talented or not
sharp gale
I approve the line on plater 100%
lusty grotto
you also sorta know with experience
and learn to abuse it
wee tiny mobs that have no hp
bold remnant
the line moves obviously depending if you have massacre talented or not
i play the full execute build on all keys, even with Red Right Hand.. isnt that what ppl are doing?
sharp gale
And when you are used to your nameplates it becomes easier to know where is the threshold
lusty grotto
they should
but massacre is the swap for BSV
so it depends on if youre running bsv or not
the other talents dont really swap
unless youre running some build without any of them which should strictly be for r1 keys
bold remnant
im playing bsv and massacre lol, idk i found that on some wowhead post
lusty grotto
im playing bsv and massacre lol, idk i found that on some wowhead post
you didnt cause thats not on wowhead
there is no build with both massacre and BSV
bold remnant
im pretty sure i found that there, or maybe i removed enduring alacrity for bsv, since i have too much haste anyways
lusty grotto
no you didnt
cause we dont even take alacrity in the weekly build
anyway thats beside the point
feel free to look for it
bold remnant
well i changed 1 thing to get bsv, not sure what.. maybe whirling blade
do ppl take that for the rage? because the dmg is pretty low
lusty grotto
for both
but you should only drop massacre for BSV
NOTHING ELSE
if you drop whirling blade, youre inting
bold remnant
i remember removing it cause i saw Kira not using it at some point, but i just checked and hes using it now
i played the entire season without it lol
lusty grotto
maybe you shouldnt follow kira's builds
and use ours in wowhead instead
anyway 
time
ionic fern
Good night.
past cobalt
is anyone playing thane with sudden death, or is that not worth dropping anything else for?
past cobalt
that's for M+ weekly keys btw
jagged pier
my point stil stands
viscid lantern
i wish they would bring back the extra coin roll... even if we had to farm a stupid weekly for them
normal mica
do you guys take intervene in any of the dungeons 13+
vital vale
is anyone playing thane with sudden death, or is that not worth dropping anythin...
I drop shield specialization for it.
and if its a dungeon where I have a real risk of death due to a hard pull or hard boss i just use nucleus trinket
but i haven't really felt like I take more damage since dropping shield spec tbh
frosty mango
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Hj9Pmfr8G43ypQNF?fight=last&view=replay&position=12405 wildest key ive ever done I think
(im not the warrior)
but he did tell me to git gud
bro just saw mobs, and pulled them
frosty mango
do you guys take intervene in any of the dungeons 13+
sometimes yes, depending
intervene is really good for keeping overzealous ret paladins alive
i dunno aobut 8t per minute but its usually 7-11% of my rage gen over a key
flint needle
Im only playing m+ on this char, do we craft ascendence + writing or do we go dusklining ?
fathom oasis
I go to battle stance for last boss dawnbreaker this season and thats about it I...
In Eco Dome all three bosses have interphases where you could go bstance for a bit, in Streets 1st boss when you are breaking jail, HoA first boss during rays if no current funnel mobs are up and you cant bring more, HoA last boss while he does the statue combo before he does the suck. I think that's it
mental scarab
Do we have like a maximum dmg build
jagged pier
yes
fathom oasis
In Eco Dome all three bosses have interphases where you could go bstance for a b...
I usually just stay dstance for fear of fking up tbh
jagged pier
its the wowhead weekly key build
fathom oasis
Im only playing m+ on this char, do we craft ascendence + writing or do we go du...
Dusk or dawn lining depending on which stat is siming better for you
flint needle
i mean this is a fresh char so i go with vers i guess to keep me better alive
fathom oasis
All stats help you stay alive
Each of them in their own way
Haste lowers SB CD and makes us generate rage faster, which means more Ignore Pain (dmg reduction) and more Avatars (from the rage spending), crit gives us parry, vers is vers, and mastery adds crit block (you should be blocking pretty much all melees throughout a dungeon by keeping as close to 100% Shield Block as possible)
Biggest boost to survivability will come from proper play, in any case
flint needle
yeah, i played prot on and off as alt tank so im familiar with it, and since i have time the first time in a season i can also push now
fathom oasis
Keeping SB up, not having mobs on your back, proper rage spending, proper CD usage, etc
fathom oasis
yeah, i played prot on and off as alt tank so im familiar with it, and since i h...
Good, hope you enjoy it 🙂
flint needle
are there any Dimminishing returns in terms of stats ?
fathom oasis
10% between 30-39%
20% between 39-47%
30% between 47-54%
Etc
We dont worry too much about the first one, but dont go over 40% in any stat
You should aim for a bit over 21k haste rating so you can use the talents in wowhead that incluse ITF (Into The Fray)
Sim will take into account any existing DRs anyways and steer you towards a good split between your stats
fathom oasis
We dont worry too much about the first one, but dont go over 40% in any stat
This 40% is only taking into account the % given by your rating. The 8% provoded by ITF, for example, is not affected by DRs
flint needle
yeah might have a bit to much haste even without itf https://i.imgur.com/PG7uiob.png
flint needle
20,3k haste 17k crit 7k mastery 10k vers
fathom oasis
Nah, still need a bit more haste
21-25k
They should both agree, but prio on wowhead can be odd in some edge cases because wowhead settings dont allow to exclude steps when certain talents are in. As mountain thane you dont want to overcap on Thunderblast charges, which is why you TB before SS
From the wowhead rotation section
Defensives will depend on your incoming damage, if you are going to be taking a big spike of damage then you should use wall, yeah. Doesnt mean you should wall every time you gather mobs
Demo shout goes mostly on CD because of the damage amp
In some specific cases you may wanna hold it a tiny bit, but better to use on CD than to miss many uses
Shield charge is used mostly on CD to keep SB up
If pull is about to die you can hold it because otherwise you might be wasting SB uptime
Shield Block should always be up
Always be facing mobs that are meleeing you, ofc
Strafe if you are moving or leap if you need to so they dont hit you from the back
Last talent right in the middle of prot tree (MSV) is a sort of cheat death
Shield Wall is your big defensive
Use it when you expect a big spike of damage
Try not to use shield wall when you are already dying
If you are already at 10% Shield wall can only do so much
Thunderous shout on CD
Impending victory can be used to heal a bit, hp potions are nice to have too, Last Stand gives you a bit of HP as well when you press it
This is all on the wowhead guide though, make sure you read through it
jagged pier
u press revenge
fathom oasis
Revenge resets SS
IP only when close to rage cap, so you can have rage left to Revenge
Dont want to have Shield Slam and Thunderclap/blast on CD and have no rage left to Revenge or Shield Block because you are spaming Ignore Pain
Likewise, don't execute too much that you are left in that same situation
You should always have available rage to refresh SB and to press revenge when SS/TC are on CD
You press it, and when you generate the rage back to that same threshold you press it again
fathom oasis
Sometimes you generate a lot of rage, so you want to press it fast
It's outside of the GCD
ivory nest
Anyone testet out "tough as nails" on Higher Keys?
jagged pier
its bad
ivory nest
Thats not a very informative answer xd
jagged pier
well what would u drop for it?
it doesnt compete with anything else u choose at that talent lvl
all those circled ones provide more damage than tough as nails
ivory nest
Not playing execute anyway so it is a possibility
Well gotta Play around with Talent Points a bit
fathom oasis
When it comes to playing surv talent over dmg talent I can see the dilemma, but when it comes to damage talents I think it's better to rely on the people who do the math behind them and just go with the optimal choice tbh
red swallow
Or just play whatever you like and if it hinders you in pushing higher seek out something better 
fathom oasis
It's a free world, no one forces you to play optimally
Your key mates might appreciate it if you do, tho
ivory nest
Well thats how it would look Like, survivability is like only a issue in 17+ If you manage sb and IP accordingly
jagged pier
if surviving is what u care about u should run bloodsurge over bloodborune
ivory nest
Nono DMG Output is in question
If anyone hast testet TaN how the DMG Looks like on big pulls, Bosses it will be ass
jagged pier
tough as nails is not hasted
as far as i know
but if u want damage this isnt the build for it
you would get more damage out of cleave execute and massacre than bloodborune and tough
your probably get more from dropping tough, blood borune and EA and taking bloodsurge mass and cleave execute
fathom oasis
Cleave execute pumps
jagged pier
you will be missing the 15% extra damage