protection

[small steeple]

well I meant to get thunderlord, you path through last stand, and was asking if last stand is so bad it doesn't make it worth going through to get thunderlord

[quasi crane]

I don't think there's a way to take 2 point from anywhere

if pure ST can remove aoe execute for Last Stand but cant see another point to sacrifice

[acoustic grotto]

guardian claw wtf what is going on, stellar guardian is over ?

[jagged pier]

bro

EC has always been behind

[acoustic grotto]

oh ok i'm dumb then (didnt play a lot during TWW)

[neon elk]

Yea like Ec is healing bosses with its dmg

[acoustic grotto]

Oh yeah EC is always taken because better survability but claw best damage, that it ?

[solid sun]

EC is for aoe in dungeons

[small steeple]

EC is only m+

[solid sun]

And big self healing

Claw is for raid

Although claw might have a chance in dungeons this next season according to @undone beacon

[lime urchin]

claw looks like fun to play, only tried some EC in m+

[acoustic grotto]

oh yea i thought we talking about m+ since the beginning sorry for the misunderstood

[undone beacon]

I have been awakened

EC is going to be the go-to tankier option for keys, as it has always been. Ton of self healing and thrash/lunar beam value

DotC does more damage but is more involved and less tanky, but theres a viable push for DotC in keys, even ripweaving potential on bosses

In raid you'll always go DotC because EC ST damage is garbage

In M+, its more up in the air which is nice

(Claw is also much more fun to play because its not just moonfire and ironfur spam)

[jagged pier]

crit bear

[solid sun]

EC is max vibes though

Just sitting there sipping on some sweet tea not worried about a thing

Talking to your daughter who is super excited about the episode of Bluey she just watched

Never once messing up your bear times

[little lark]

i was hella confused, now im realising you are talking about druid 😄

[strong forum]

oh right, thane

hold on

[undone beacon]

True. I rolled my bear initially to have a shitpost tank that I could mentally afk while running guildies through vault keys LMAO

[burnt spoke]

am i supposed to hold demolish until avatar comes up or hold avatar until demolish is back up so that i use demolish a second time in between avatar?

[undone beacon]

Send demolish asap as appropriate but try to sync with avatar when you can

If you dont need the defensive value you can also throw shield wall right before it for the 4 seconds of avatar

[burnt spoke]

that's a good call thanks. didnt think about it until now

[little lark]

generally speaking colossus presses more revenge, correct?
But i guess its still the rule of thumb to press IP when above 60~ish rage and keeping uptime on both IP and SB for mitigation. Or do we forego the IP rule to get out more DPS?

[plush tendon]

Revenge as Col does lots of damage

being smart about where you spend rage is important as Col

[little lark]

Ok, so its more like adjusting to the damage intake, to still being fine survivability-like while maximising dps

[rough egret]

dps is the best for survivability

[undone beacon]

If the mob is dead it cant hurt you, easy game

[idle copper]

Is hunker down just a cheap man's version of Spell Block?

[undone beacon]

Hunker Down is an enhancement to Spell Reflect

Spellbreaker is a bastardized version of Spell Block

[dim tide]

Hi, trying to reach link from Prot-faq but it says that i dont have premision #protection-faq message

The War Within this one

[pale abyss]

Hey guys, question for you. I am planning on tanking for my raid (Heroic only) as prot, but want to do keys as Prot/occasional Fury. If I focus on gearing for fury, dps trinkets and haste/mastery stat priority, am I griefing myself as a tank?

[solid sun]

It’s easier to do prot and arms because they like the same stats

Idk if you’re necessarily griefing by having more mastery than crit

[pale abyss]

I just really don't enjoy Arms haha. I've tried enjoying it so many times and just never seem to get there

[undone beacon]

You're not griefing yourself but typically prot offspecs as arms because they are both haste/crit focused

You'll be fine taking fury gear and grabbing a shield though

Especially next season with secondaries being so inflated

[pale abyss]

Awesome, thank you. I appreciate the validation.

[solid sun]

You can craft extra rings and necklaces if you wanted

[undone beacon]

And heroic raid tanking tends to be giga chill, just hit a defensive for the buster and life is good

[undone beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/nubby-nubby's-number-factory-nubbys-number-factory-pet-nub-gif-10828535552509613360

[solid sun]

I fully disagree now

You’re going to get one shot constantly if you gear fury

It’s all over might as well pack it up

[frosty mango]

I’m pretty sure you could be in fury spec

Put on a shield and hit shield block and take a tankbuster in heroic

[solid sun]

Nope fury is bad

[frosty mango]

And not die

[solid sun]

Sprocket would kill you

100%

[frosty mango]

Pyro party pack?

[pale abyss]

Lmao, I apologize for the sincerity Rhino. Please eat a turd and die.

[frosty mango]

Negative I’ve taken multiple pyro party packs on my monk, I didn’t even wear a shield and I didn’t die

[solid sun]

I didn’t respect party pack in prot spec with shield block up and died

[undone beacon]

She monger on my sprocket til I party on her pack

[solid sun]

So doing that in fury would def kill you

[frosty mango]

We need confirmations

This sounds like a science situation

[solid sun]

I already scienced it

[frosty mango]

If I join a random pug as fury and taunt sprocket do you think they’d be upset

[solid sun]

I do but I also don’t think you’d care

[frosty mango]

You know me so well

[pallid quiver]

realistically, they wouldn't even notice

[undone beacon]

taunt sprocket -> die by the sword -> wait im fury -> die by the sprocket

[pallid quiver]

Unless you're in a pug that's actually vetting for fast clears/good players

[frosty mango]

No shot you don’t survive with spell ref and enraged regen

[small steeple]

facts

[solid sun]

Well the brewmaster that’s learning the spec will be dead

So you’ll have aggro anyways

[frosty mango]

True and real

[pallid quiver]

Your average raid tank alone is already barely above braindead, then you add on the pug modifier?

You could almost drag the boss to another raid and people wouldn't notice

[frosty mango]

I’ve stopped tanking pugs on the bear because it’s all bleeds and dots, I open at like 5m dps with crit string and then the other tank can’t pull him off of me for like 30 seconds

It’s been cursed on one arm for me

We need shirk

[pallid quiver]

I just plan around solo tanking when pugging heroic or norm on a tank

[frosty mango]

Give us shirk

[undone beacon]

I brought my bear to our heroic alt night and gally was a mess

VDH could not hold threat even after I stopped hitting buttons

[frosty mango]

It’s a bear problem

[undone beacon]

Bascially had to tank in cat form lmao

[solid sun]

That’s because you were partnered with a vdh

[frosty mango]

Even if you stop pressing buttons you are still doing tons of damage lol

[solid sun]

Vdh spend all their time refreshing their raider.io page and watching Yoda’s tier list videos

[frosty mango]

Dunno there was a lot of mastery nerf crying

Hard to tank through the tears

[undone beacon]

how dare they nerf our beautiful baby boys

the wrath of one thousand vdhs shall be deployed to your location, stat

[small steeple]

really? It did basically nothing

[frosty mango]

They saw the word reduced and immediately burst into flames

[undone beacon]

Literally VDH rn

also worst fucking talent name

I hate it

[frosty mango]

I don’t like vdh gameplay. I have one, I can do it, it just seems unfun to me. I can see the appeal of the class through

[mighty valley]

it's SO dumb

my other pet peeve is the fdk talent

"coldthirst"

[small steeple]

I really enjoyed vdh in s1 of DF, when you had double brand

I kinda dislike the reliance on sigils for parry

[undone beacon]

I miss when DotC's Ravage was called "Massive Attack"

That shit slapped

[solid sun]

https://tenor.com/view/muse-supermassive-black-hole-alternative-rock-glaciers-melting-gif-16224187

I don’t like vdh because it seems like you rely on debuffing stuff

And I just don’t like it

I don’t wanna put a brand on the target and it do less damage or it be hit by a thing and now it does less damage

I just wanna buff up and go to work

Hey @frosty mango my healer friend is telling me Resto shaman might be using a new playstyle this season

[frosty mango]

I don’t know much about Rsham outside of how to play it in raid, I’ve run 12/13s with it but it seems like you just put down totem and press surging if you’re not dpsing lol

If they are changing that’s cool because it seemed boring

[little lark]

is Champions Spear and Thunderous Roar generally interchangeable?

Or does one favor one herotalent tree

[frosty mango]

For thane spear is technically more dps but functionally it’s about the same

Roar is much easier to maximize in real world scenarios so most people run that

It also helps a lot with gather

[ashen kestrel]

I enjoy the mobility, cc and self healing, but i hate things like holding flame sigils for the perfect time and trying to burst a bunch of fire dps inside the brand window.

Prot warrior go smash, prot warrior do damage

[lofty warren]

Someone leak me the 11.2 wowhead/iv guides

The spec ones

[undone beacon]

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/trollface

[rough egret]

damn i need to rerun some key to get 1 score.. 😄

[little lark]

dont go too fast

[rough egret]

yeah so i dont get 2 points.. that would be bad 😄

[pliant sail]

Is there ever a reason to press slam?

Ok. Didn’t think so

[blazing shuttle]

How good are we talking?

Jesus.

And AoE?

[ashen kestrel]

DFC your best bet, timer is so free it’s crazy

[rough egret]

Its actually 3299,5 😄

[pliant sail]

Level 77, I’m almost there 😬

[pliant sail]

Heavy repercussions is what gives us 100% sb uptime right?

[rough egret]

You still need to press SB and SS

[jagged pier]

that or ITF + proper play + enough haste will give u 100% effective uptime

[pliant sail]

What’s the amount of haste needed? I’m still brand new to this spec and still learning

[jagged pier]

17-18k rating

[lofty warren]

What's itf

[jagged gust]

in their face

just get all up in it

its the choice node with humongous ramparts

[lofty warren]

Ohh i didn't know there was an out their face. That must be like a mage thing

[solid sun]

Nome said hold on and never came back

[lofty warren]

Is he finding out what itf is?

[solid sun]

No

That's ITF

[lofty warren]

Ohh that's a thunder mountain talent i think or maybe in the prot tree don't remember

[jagged gust]

Resto shammy ability

[solid sun]

It's in the prot spec tree

It's a choice node with heavy repercussions. If you have low amounts of haste you take heavy repercussions because it helps with shield block uptime. Once you hit enough haste you can switch to Into the Fray.

[small steeple]

.

[strong forum]

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-calc/warrior/protection/mountain-thane/DAOAUVBRFUgYVIpRUBBNVUVEVFEGVUVFRCUAEFVVUCAQ

[small steeple]

bloodsurge?

[undone beacon]

dad came back with the talent tree

[strong forum]

doesnt rly matter if bloodsurge or instigate

as thane

[undone beacon]

Why not Bloodborne for free dam?

[small steeple]

looks like focused vigor over that?

[undone beacon]

Or if you're taking the execute talents, why not sudden death?

[strong forum]

just because synergy exists doesnt mean you need to take it

but yeah

its between those 4 talents ig

the 1 flex point

[undone beacon]

Well yeah, but with how much rage thane is generating anyways it seems that it would be much better value for the point on paper

Maybe in execution it isnt but like

[strong forum]

instigate/bloodsurge/bb/sd

pick your poison

can only pick 1 as thane

[undone beacon]

I pick spellbreaker

[strong forum]

IF you want thunderlord

[solid sun]

How important is thunderlord

[strong forum]

havent simmed talent combos for max m+ dmg yet

thunderlord is good value for thane

but i aint simmed if saccing 2 extra points for it is worth

[solid sun]

Just seems like we are already mountain thanes. Do we really need to also be thunder lords

That’s a lot of responsibility

[undone beacon]

Are the two not synonymous

[sharp dew]

If you care about doing high keys then you shall be both and you shall be Thor

[nocturne spindle]

mountain and thunder are not synonymous smh

[solid sun]

^

They aren’t even related really

Mountains have nothing to do with thunder

[frosty mango]

All mountain thanes are thunder lords but not all thunder lords are mountain thanes

[small steeple]

THUNDER

[undone beacon]

she thane on my mountain til i thunderlord

[small steeple]

BLOOD AND THUNDER

[solid sun]

Hey

Grounded 2 is out

Does anyone wanna get shrunk with me

[strong forum]

lets see

with real quick scuff dslice sim and apl

[small steeple]

is dslice sim okay for pwar?

[strong forum]

its within reason yea

or rather, the number that dslice spat out was close to my damage in keys

:^)

[small steeple]

oh thats good to know, I've been using several sims with variable target count and length, to see difference

[strong forum]

okay so bloodborne is big fuck

https://i.imgur.com/UxfJNKx.png

dont play bloodborne as thane

[small steeple]

LMAO

[solid sun]

Alright noted

[small steeple]

instigate being ahead of SD and everting else is crazy

[solid sun]

Bloodborne can kick rocks

[lofty warren]

Is the correct talent choice for s3 mt to not use all those extra buttons like ravager and spear and shield damage interrupt ability on gcd?

[strong forum]

https://i.imgur.com/pOmXXwY.png

this is 6t 3min

[small steeple]

what is the unlabeled one and current gear?

[strong forum]

raid ST

without thunderlord or execute cleave

so based on this, thunderlord is not worth damage wise

[undone beacon]

yikes

[strong forum]

ASSUMING you play properly

[small steeple]

which one is which here between them? All wioth tunderlord and the unlabled is without? or is the current without it?

[strong forum]

BB = Bloodborne
BS = Bloodsurge
Instigate = Instigate
SD = Sudden Death

unlabeled = no TL no exe cleave but instigate, bs, sd

but

need to verify smth

[lofty warren]

So many bloods I'm lost

[small steeple]

only 2 lmao

[strong forum]

okay my apl line didnt work yet

so this is inaccurate a tad bit

https://i.imgur.com/qXFOIyJ.png

6t 2min

[cerulean tusk]

so when does the nerfs hit?

[jagged pier]

called it

[small steeple]

they wont

[strong forum]

patch launch

[jagged pier]

Ither a week before patch or after the race

[strong forum]

[lofty warren]

Why would it get nerfed

[strong forum]

it sims 500k higher than the 2nd highest tank

(thats 15%)

[cerulean tusk]

That sounds fine to myself

[violet ginkgo]

sudden death is the way to go then?

[strong forum]

ye

[small steeple]

Looks like TL with Instigate is more though?

[strong forum]

this is for Dslice

so yeah thats probably the more comfy way to go

but SD no TL is highest simming in pure aoe

[frosty mango]

Where is colossus

We have to be prepared for the inevitable!

[small steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/scott-kentucky-ballistics-dinosaur-bucket-rope-gif-26451838

blizz is gonna do this with all the MT talk

[frosty mango]

Nah we’re gonna be goated

And that’s all there is to it

We’re gonna be so goated nome is gonna abandon war frame and play again

[strong forum]

https://i.imgur.com/k5GwOrd.png

here is colossus

[lofty warren]

This not an aoe though? I guess still a dps increase in aoe even if it hits 1 target

[strong forum]

on dslice

[small steeple]

talent to celave execute exists now, is new

[lofty warren]

How many can you aoe execute?

[jagged gust]

#protection message

[solid sun]

You haven’t even unlocked the talent yet

[jagged gust]

My feelcraft is strong

[lofty warren]

So instigator mt best m+ no collasas

[strong forum]

colossus is pretty dead next patch ye

cuz thane set turned from getting a 750% and it still being dogshit

to omega bis

[small steeple]

only took a completely reworked 4pc lol

[jagged gust]

7.5x buff really was something to see

[pallid quiver]

"bleedsupport"

[strong forum]

@waxen frigate

[waxen frigate]

HOLY BASED

[strong forum]

no but mountain thane does infinitely more damage so

[waxen frigate]

okay now show the group effectiveness sims (bleed support clears all)

[strong forum]

[jagged pier]

#protection message

[pallid quiver]

god i love bleedsupport

it's so funny

[jagged pier]

No more bleed support

Only big bonk

[small steeple]

500k ahead

[jagged pier]

Okay those sims, arent optimised yet/ not fixed for any of the specs

Lets not trust them blindly

[small steeple]

I'm just going off what I saw Nome say

haven't seen any sims with all tanks

[undone beacon]

i hold all judgement and opinions until i see some motherfuckin TIER LISTS BABY YEAHHHH

[frosty mango]

FWIW raid sims are what they are

Most classes are usually close enough that skill factors far more than class

For tanks anyway

[strong forum]

not for the tanks

we have what is called integrity

yeah

miasna does this for free for fun

every single tier

what paid one

what do you know that i dont

[neon elk]

I dont like this , they gona nerf us even more based on some random sim xd

[strong forum]

what paid one

[solid sun]

Imagine paying for a sim

[cerulean tusk]

I never pay, I only pray

[strong forum]

these are just the profiles (for the most part) made by the TCs

and uploaded to simc

theyre literally public

[undone beacon]

Elunes chosen not even on the map poggers

[strong forum]

it is

his screenshots are outdated

[solid sun]

We don’t even know what these are now???

My life is a lie!

Imagine paying for outdated sims!

[mighty valley]

Sometimes it's enough to just look at a really big bar

[frosty mango]

WHERE ARE THE SIM TIER LISTS

DOES PAID SIM RANK HIGHER THAN THE FREE SIM

[mighty valley]

|-|========================|-|

damn... S tier

[solid sun]

Look at that big bar!

I love your big bar how much do I pay you to copy it

[strong forum]

clearly enha is best spec

look at that potential of highrolling your ass off

[mighty valley]

Larger bars will be available on my patreon

[solid sun]

lol perfect

What a scheme

[frosty mango]

Check out my stream tonight where I’ll be ranking sim profiles with a guest appearance by yoda

[solid sun]

However far ahead MT is, it won’t be enough

It still won’t be meta

[strong forum]

im well aware

[frosty mango]

Stop putting that voodoo juju on us

[solid sun]

If always depends on the comp yeah?

Also being meta in the raid is kinda silly. I don’t even know what that would mean

[neon elk]

They gona nerf our dmg again without any compensation .. yay

[solid sun]

Why?

[proven stratus]

Fury going to catch strays

[frosty mango]

In your new apl are you putting sudden death procs above shield slam or below, just curious

[neon elk]

I hope so

[proven stratus]

You right, should just dumpster woyer into unplayability, hope for 12.0 rework

[strong forum]

in aoe above

in ST nothing should change

[neon elk]

Fury will never be desired in keys unless its super OP in dmg, they are target caped and brings pretty much nothing special

[pallid quiver]

I was sad at first when looking for enha shaman until I saw this comment

holy hell that's a wild bar to see

[sharp merlin]

In MT is IP more important? In current Col builds in M+ I’m only pressing IP to stop overcapping rage, are we literally IP’ing every other gcd (I know IP isn’t on the GCD)

[daring narwhal]

when all you bring is your damage and it's not even great at your niche, who could've guessed right

[pallid quiver]

It serves the same purpose; you just press the button more since you generate more rage

[sharp merlin]

ah fair

so IP isn't gonna 'save you'

phew

[daring narwhal]

it also does less absorb per cast afaik with MT

haven't done the math but should be more or less the same amount as col overall

[sharp merlin]

it never did.. 🌍 🕵️‍♂️ 🔫 🕵️‍♂️

[daring narwhal]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=429644/no-stranger-to-pain

[small steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/money-motherfuckin-motherfucking-gif-16238175

[undone beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cats-explosion-explodes-cat-explodes-gif-10311420692458175149

[sharp merlin]

Pugging heritage, just doing a +10, weekly. Lead doesn't take a way to skip first pull ToP, that's fine. This is my alt VDH btw, but they want me to take the first pack onto boss with BL (not my cuppa tea), all good, I asked them to ensure the enrage on the Bloodhorn is dealt with. Some people are actually psychos, do they have like bad lives or something?
The Unholy loses his shit, thinks he's getting melee'd to death cause of aggro, doesn't.. he dies to a puddle 😄 Mage blames.. route? 😂

[blazing shuttle]

End of season truly feels like a zoo in low keys.

[sharp merlin]

He was on his main, 3.2k btw

[blazing shuttle]

I have started to consider rating as just a number.

Because I've had monkeys with 3k+ that can't play the game for shit.

[sharp merlin]

I just thought it was funny how he thought he had threat on everything, I didn't once lose threat despite being 20 ilvls below the dude

but yeah, it's a zoo for sure, good way to put it

Anyway, you put that on my badge: Worst Tank of 2025

Nobody can sing that 😂

And even funnier, I managed to solo the remains of the first pack, and we only wiped, we didn't lose that much time due to the wipe either cause I don't think deaths on anything below a 12 are that punishing

[mighty valley]

How can they say that, we still have months left to go

[jagged gust]

dot aggro in 2025 🥀

[mortal cypress]

https://tenor.com/view/forrest-gump-wave-hello-hi-sup-gif-16159238468026206620

[blazing shuttle]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-gif-13062150862685254762

[hardy snow]

it was 11m hp

[sharp merlin]

Nope, my title, no one can take that away from me

[mortal cypress]

John Blizzard can

[manic idol]

im tryna do a alt prot warrior and im realizing for some reason im getting absolutelty destroyed at a start of a pack even with shield block up and wall

[sharp merlin]

Can you provide an example?

[solid sun]

Very likely getting hit in the back

You can't block attacks that hit you from behind

[neon elk]

Arent you like fresh 500ilbl trying to do 10s or something ?

[solid sun]

No I'm done with keys for the season

(I know you aren't talking to me)

[sharp merlin]

Hahaha ^^

[manic idol]

for example cinder brew on a 9 im at 660 i lvl, first pack i charge then shield block to sustain till pack is grouped then i shield wall and do some dmg but im getting blasted by dmg to the point i basically have to immediatly press any healing abilitity i have availible

[sharp merlin]

You’re getting melted by the bleed in that pull, there’s a particular mob which adds a stacking bleed which is gonna smash you

[manic idol]

my stats arent for prot cause i swapped off fury but idk if that would make that big a difference if i had more haste and crit

[sharp merlin]

Track the bleed and put some rage into IP to sustain

[warm plinth]

He's not getting blasted by the bleed when it hasn't had a chance to stack yet

[solid sun]

Yeah I'm gonna push back on the bleed theory because he said at the start of the pack

[manic idol]

yeh its just immediatly getting obliterated

[sharp merlin]

If you’re starting Prot

[manic idol]

even if i pop block and shield wall going into pack its just instant dmg

[sharp merlin]

Don’t take 2 muscles

Just one

[warm plinth]

Sounds like getting hit in the back to me. I feel perfectly safe doing that pull at the start

[thick cairn]

Check your combat logs to see whats hitting you

[solid sun]

Hey that's what I said!

[sharp merlin]

And also the other guys are right, you might be getting hit in the back

[manic idol]

it was basically all melee attacks

[warm plinth]

Rhino making sense? Shit let me rethink this

[neon elk]

Yea its backhits, not way it hurts that bad in 9 with sb and sw at 660 ilvl

[solid sun]

rhino have big horn but tiiiiiiiiiiny brain

[warm plinth]

Lol

[manic idol]

ok cool good to know, im used to guardian druid where i just run around tanking everything and healing myself hahahah

[neon elk]

Or just a wild guess but isnt like your shield broken? ( idk if that still counts as u having it equiped to use spells)

[manic idol]

nah

[jagged gust]

nah broken equipment is considered an empty slot

[neon elk]

Not even sure bear is "that" much tankier tbf, u shouldnt feel in danger on that pull, imho

[jagged gust]

Between thorims might+exe talents, any testing on whether Cruel Strikes come into play in S3?

[manic idol]

thats why i was so confused cause im very good at bear but i have literally zero issues doing that pull on a 14 on bear

[sharp merlin]

I feel way tankier on prot than bear

Bear you need a defensive on top of a defensive

[solid sun]

Regen on bear probably outpaces the melees you're eating

[neon elk]

Best bet is checking a log to be 100% sure

[sharp merlin]

Prot you just need sb up and you’re laughing

[manic idol]

yeh im assuming i just wasnt having all the mobs infront of me

but i find it hard to group large packs and still keep agro while facing forward

ya know how pug dps r they immediatly wanna do big dmg isntantly

[neon elk]

Tbf its quite easy to get backhits on that pull

[sharp merlin]

I let them die these days, zero remorse

Prob why I’m the worst tank

[manic idol]

ok good to know tho about sb being frontal only i really had no idea, i knew obviously that u dont wanna get hgit in back on any tank but it makes a lot more sense that sb only blocks in front

[sharp merlin]

The only pull which you may find weird in that entire dungeon is the bee route, but strafing helped me a lot there

So the first pack of bees right after the first boss, you need to strafe

To dodge the back shots

[neon elk]

Every tank is vulnerable to backhits, not just war

[manic idol]

i just dont notice it as much on bear

[sharp merlin]

Bear for some reason is okay

[manic idol]

i mean a factor is ive been playing bear for 3 years and prot warrior for 3 weeks so definetly a difference in skill level XD

[neon elk]

Because on bear u are "only" loosing dodge, on warr its everything , but still, not bein able to dodge on bear and eat every hit makes difference

[manic idol]

would my stats being not heavily into haste crit make a big diff as well? for prot

[stiff gate]

this is true but warrior has it real bad relatively. my monk can get hit in the back for a sec and not instantly flop. my warrior cannot.

[sharp merlin]

Haste is good for SB uptime

[neon elk]

Because stager , u dont lose that when u get backhit, on war u eat full hit

[sharp merlin]

Also for Aggro to the front, ravager, thunderclap, the dragon thingy are your best friends in gathering

[stiff gate]

yes of course. i just mean basically every class besides warrior has some amount of mitigation that is still functioning when you get hit in the back. block is so much of our overall survivability that losing it is basically instant death. bears still have ironfur and self healing, monks still have stagger, vdh/dk still have their self healing, etc.

[sharp merlin]

I had to get out of the habit of thinking demo shout was helping aoe threat

[mighty valley]

it... sort of is........

[sharp merlin]

I always save a ravager for the next bit pull

It is?

[mighty valley]

i mean, it's a damage buff

[neon elk]

U do more dmg so its more agro

[sharp merlin]

Yeah but the ability itself does not actually aggro

[mighty valley]

correct

if you can't spare the gcd do something else

[sharp merlin]

But yes you’re right the revenge you hit after etc is gonna be the aggro

[mighty valley]

but if your dps aren't like the ones from your earlier pug, you can hopefully spare the gcd

[sharp merlin]

Keep at it, I think Prot is the best tank, and I enjoy it way more than the rest, and have hit 3k+ on all of them this season (minus VDH)

[frosty mango]

Did we break raider.io

[quick berry]

Their site went to shit with the AdBlock I have running

[ashen kestrel]

I mean kiiinda, but I wouldn’t really count the vdh / dk self heal being a mitigation to back shots - they rely on parry and can’t parry a shot for the back, so you’re taking just as much damage as a warrior back shot. On a high enough key they will drop just as fast as a warrior will, regardless of their self healing capabilities

[jagged gust]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148897941883584512/1369851065633345546/big2.gif

[manic idol]

can anyone run me through the abilities you guys use to start agro on a multi pack pull?

and what you use if u dont have certain bigger cds like ravager or roar

[jagged gust]

I try to get a TC, Revenge and a SS off on each pack before moving on to another while gathering.

TC+Revenge for applying bleeds, SS to get enough rage to do it again to the next pack

It's enough to hold aggro unless someone decides to dump some lucky procs/CDs into a pack while grouping.

[frosty mango]

Or if you’re grouped with a ret paladin who has no brain

Wake of ashes divine storm brrrrrrrr

[cerulean tusk]

That do be the classic

[frosty mango]

ionizing strike doing a lot of work on the ptr

[solar forum]

Does it look cool? Is there a special animation for it?

I’m so vain

[lofty warren]

Link me 11.2 accurate sims

[frosty mango]

its hard to see anything wih 30 mobs on you

[solar forum]

fair

[lofty warren]

With lots of.mobs he gets 60% haste from nearby enemies talent haste thing

[solid sun]

Why you do this

We gotta stay 8 mobs or less so we can always choose to spend rage on sexecute

And always hit it over any other button

[delicate hill]

are people talking about mountain thane for a raid build next tier?

[warm plinth]

Talking about it, yes

Whether they're correct or not remains to be seen since there's a lot of feelycraft going around

[delicate hill]

ok ty

[pallid quiver]

Last Nome updated us, Thane's doing a non-zero amount more damage overall, particularly with execute, so if no further tuning happens (bold assumption), it's likely Thane in raid

[lucid mica]

What does this mean?
Item level scaling has been increased from 710 to 723 in Mythic+ keystone level 10 and higher.

[frosty mango]

It’s for ptr testing

Before your ilvl was scaled to 710 now it’s scaled to 723

This lets people test higher level keys

[lucid mica]

Oh cool thank you 🙂

[viral grove]

But I'm smaller if I go thane...

[frosty mango]

every ptr key I run people just leave

literally zero completed keys today lol

[frosty mango]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hyMvrZxHJwWmk18d?fight=last&type=damage-done

If anyone is interested in breakdowns from today

[fleet crater]

I have 1 more Dinar item what should I get for prot mythic bombsuit, tome or Ritual mud?

[frosty mango]

at this point I would get mythic bomb suit

tome and mud will both be farmable

bombsuit will have value in early keys

[sharp gale]

At this point I would use dinar for mog ngl

Like weapons mog

[fervent thorn]

If you are talking about m+ weapons, all of those should be relatively easily farmable. If you are talking about for raid, if you have alts you can buy the equivelent weapon mogs with the raid tokens you get from the rep(2 per alt, need 35 alts to get every single item like this but don't need it for things you already have)

[sharp gale]

I was more talking about raid ones bc m+ will be solo farmable after next season start in a week or 2, but not sure about raid ones

[rough egret]

So next week its just m0s and delves to fill vault right? 🙂

And get cloak

[little lark]

pmuch, yeah

can also unlock delve 11, so you dont have to it later if you want the crests from it

[blazing shuttle]

And pray for the best.

[raw parcel]

Icy veins says we have more self sustain coming in 11.2, but not from where. I am out of the loop, where we getting that and is it noticable for those who have tested it?

[rough egret]

Can you link the article? 🙂

[jagged pier]

They are probably talking about FBV which has been nerfed and we wont play as we are likely to play thane anyway

[rough egret]

Bleed dmg got buffed and talent FbV aswell so in a big pull you get more healing from it but as Jakey said, that was few weeks ago and its already nerfed

[sharp gale]

• thane set got changed

[blazing shuttle]

To what?

[sharp gale]

#updates-midnight message

[blazing shuttle]

Wait what the fuck.

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-when-fun-begins-smile-happy-gif-15656461

[sharp gale]

fury is little scared of thane nerfs bc prot

[blazing shuttle]

Please for one Blizzard.

[rough egret]

Makes sense 😐

[blazing shuttle]

Nerf VDH instead.

[neon elk]

Ngl so am i ..

[rough egret]

RWF guilds will play double warr due its dmg 😄

[blazing shuttle]

Double mountain.

[sharp gale]

If you want some piece of data about m+ damage https://mythicstats.com/ptr?from=2025-07-26

There is a lack of enough logs tho

Don’t take it too seriously

And ilvl scaling got changed on the ptr this week

[neon elk]

Devoker strong ?

[rancid tiger]

As arms got a nerf coz of prot🤣

[sharp gale]

Delete arms

(My arms only second warrior is finally 80)

The gameplay is still clunky, I hope one day Blizz delete one or two abilities from arms rotation

[rancid tiger]

Meaningless cds

Like buff roar or delete it

And let wb also give aoe rend

[sharp gale]

Yes and too many CDs, my big brain idea is to remove avatar from arms and fury

[rancid tiger]

Would help a lot with the horrid opener

Avatar is only of gcd cd

So no

But making wb rend would make opener so much better

[sharp gale]

Yes but still a button, if you put everything on 1 iconic CD (reck and warbreaker) it would be better

[rancid tiger]

I disagree

But i can understand thought

[sharp gale]

Avatar is non existent, just 20% up, as fury you fucking macro with reck

As prot the unstoppable force talent IS what makes avatar really cool

[rough egret]

I macro avatar with the wotlk toy that do the DBW trinket effects.

So once un a while im big tanuka

[little lark]

that looks fairly fine if we are looking only at dps

i know its a small dataset, but i think life is not really different

[sharp gale]

Specs shouldn’t have 2 damage up buttons unless it is clearly 45 sec/1min30 (2 cast / 1 cast duo)

[neon elk]

Is there anything weird with vaults ? Last week i only did some delves , yet my only reward in vault is dungeon slot ?

[clever heart]

Does Demorlaizing Shout apply to raid bosses ?

[jagged pier]

yes

[clever heart]

even for AoE damage spells ? like will it make the boss deal 20% less to entire raid group ??

OR just to the tank

[weak ether]

just to tank

[sharp gale]

Just to you, it is calculated from your damage taken if the source is affected by your shout in my big guess

[clever heart]

that makese sense. would be so op if whole raid.
OMG lol it says to you !!

so its that way in M+ too lol. kk ty friends

[fleet crater]

Ye thought so aswell tyvm

[sharp merlin]

They should make a vote timeout feature on M+. In CS, between rounds you can call for a tactical timeout which allows the users to vote to pause for a bit longer. There's been times during keys where I need to do something.. for example dog choking or someone delivering a package.

They should make it you can only pause the timer and freeze in place if 4/5 players vote accept it, you're out of combat and then the party leader can resume the time and everyone can move again. And you can only do it 3 times a key. I doubt John Blizzard will want this, but think it would be a cool feature to add so we can actually do things during keys if rl shit hits the fan

[mild river]

@frosty mango good idea

[neon elk]

I mean, how often do u need that ? If its like every other key the m+ isnt for you i guess , if it happens once a month then well it sucks but w/e

[sharp merlin]

Keys are 30+ min on average. You need 30 minutes of uninterrupted time. If you're solo pugging, it's kinda shit, if you're in a team, it's a non issue, especially as the key is likely to be resi anyway.

CSGO had to give you an acceptance of terms, everytime you hopped into MM, saying 'you are literally agreeing to 45 minutes of potential time taken'

[neon elk]

I mean, thats fine and all

But liek you said, key is 30 mins , lets say the pause is what ? 15-20 ?

[sharp merlin]

pause for a min

I've had players dc just before a last boss

and if we had that min or two, we would have timed

and the dc was totally out of people's control

[neon elk]

Yea thats a rare case

Then you have* another cases like you mentioned above where that 1 min isnt going to help at all

[sharp merlin]

Shit happens during keys, but we should be given choices to at least pause it for a little bit incase of that shit. I feel horrible if something happens 75+% of the key through and need to go

[neon elk]

So do i but again ,how often does that happen ?

Like this season i didnt finish 2 keys that way cuz of electricity and it was out for like half hour eacht time ..2 keys, over whole season

[sharp merlin]

were you in a team?

[neon elk]

Nah just a pug

[sharp merlin]

But guess I should quit M+ cause it happens to me and other people, so clearly the content is not for me

[neon elk]

But even if i was in a team, what would that change ? Go on phone on discord and tell them " yo guys, power is out , idk when it will come back, perhaps you are willing to wait between few seconds and hours "?

Like im not against it , but from all the things they should do this feels like it will have very little impact (for me at least) and is wasting resources , imho

[sharp merlin]

anyway, another take is that there shouldn't even be a key. It should be like Delves, you just select the level and go in, it's such a stupid system. No other content in the game punishes you by -1'ing something making you redo it

but hey, I'm fighting a learned behaviour, so no point

[neon elk]

Deplete is stupid mechanic , so is random key, but having option to just choose key and lvl would probably create a lot of dead keys , so its a neccesary evil i gues

What they should do tho is change the way resil key works , they should work on keys above your resil, not below.. like if i time all 12s i dont care that i cant drop key below 12, i need to practice 13s now so make those resil

[sharp merlin]

yeah, getting rid of the key gets rid of that ^

I was working on getting resi 16 done solo, and the amount of times in the first min the key busted was awful, so now I have to spend another 30+ min on a 15, which is already pretty tough, just to get another shot at that first pull? dead.

[jagged pier]

welcome to m+

[sharp merlin]

that shouldn't be the answer though ^

[jagged pier]

its what the communities made it

[sharp merlin]

Maybe I should stop cleaning my room, become a full time streamer and just complain about the community and random politics 😂

[neon elk]

I mean comunity is one thing, but with very little effort blizz could make it way better than it is

[fleet owl]

Right now, and in the optic of the beginning of the new season, which trinket should I use between Ringing Ritual Mud and Chromebustible Bomb Suit? Both on the hero track (I don't know if I'll get a better trinket on the myth track before S3)

[rigid hull]

alright guys 1 simple question im thiknking about coming to retail again but i aint sure what i should play , collossus or mountain thane ? what are the main diffrences

[restive jackal]

Hello guys if I start late to play prot war and now I got at great vault 1h weapon myth versa mastery I take it , because I have crit haste sword 1h 681 crafted so what to do ?

Talking of retail tww s2

[jagged pier]

high ilv on shield and wep are always better

[restive jackal]

So is not a pain that is bad stats as versa mastery and not crit haste ?

[jagged pier]

dont matter

[restive jackal]

Oki

And next week we still get great vault or no?

[jagged pier]

yes

[ashen kestrel]

Classic DH

[rough egret]

this vault gave me last socket, surely the last one next week will give me weap/shield

[exotic gazelle]

has the thane prio changed much from s2 in either st/aoe?

[jagged pier]

no

[exotic gazelle]

not much, or not at all?

talent tree changed right iirc

[jagged pier]

the only change is send tier set buffed TB on 2 targets

but apart from that nothing changes

[exotic gazelle]

thank you

[sharp gale]

prot is still a 3 button spec after the change, i can assure that

might just be more important to follow the 2x2 Thunderblast/Shieldslam thingy

and there might be something about execute if you play aoe execute

[solid sun]

Execute is higher than shield slam in aoe now

[crimson furnace]

always execute

single most fun spell in the game

[jagged pier]

eh lets not get too crazy

[crimson furnace]

1000% agree

[sharp gale]

i can accept execute> 1 charge Tblast, nothing more

[solid sun]

Well

At the very least sudden death procs are above shield slam in aoe

[jagged pier]

again

[solid sun]

Nome told us yesterday

[jagged pier]

not really as it stacks twice

and depends if u are high on rage

if u are low on rage and its your first stack

u SS

[sharp gale]

and depends on remaining seconds of SD (like current fury)

[jagged pier]

if its your second stack u probably execute

[solid sun]

Looks like you just gotta have rage

Plan for it forever so you can send those juicy sexecutes

Thane be swimming in rage

[sharp gale]

100% Blizz will come at us again

[jagged pier]

we jumped what 20-30 apm again

[sharp gale]

bc they never fully adressed the IP dump they hate

[jagged pier]

after they just reduced it

[sharp gale]

they reduced it and we had a colossus season

the jump of next will be apparent enough imo

[solid sun]

They’re just gonna have to redesign

[jagged pier]

they jsut did

thats why we got a new tree

[solid sun]

I assume our damage will get hit in some way but they aren’t changing IP until they’re ready to fix whatever their vision is for IP

[sharp gale]

they have to rework how we spend rage (doubt they will after the tree capstones deletion)

[solid sun]

Yeah if they don’t like sending IP as a rage dump then they didn’t redesign anything with our tree to change that

[sharp gale]

we can spend on IP or revenge, but can't dump enough in revenge + can become just inefficient, there is a paradox

my big guess is to add a more heavy rage spender, or have more headaches for me to imagine beyond that

[lime mantle]

The fix is to make revenge an OGCD.
Why? High apm cool 🙂

[neon elk]

Make IP works like execute , the more rage it consumes the steonger it gets , doesnt fix the way we spend our rage, but it will lower apm

[sharp gale]

yep, doesn't fix thane tho, since it works around tclap > revenge

without this, you have 2 hero talents, doing the same rotation but one has demolish

[solid sun]

@jagged pier #protection message

I wasn’t just making it up 🤷‍♂️

[jagged pier]

i knwo but theres always differences depending on things thats just a braud statement which i dont disagree but it doesnt go into all situations that u can run into.

its all up to nome if he wants to add it into the apl

alot of thing in the apl are literally sat behind u are on x amount of rage

[sharp gale]

And it can change if you don’t take the full execute build (you need to really commit to take 3 talents)

Vault keys are gonna be 100% fun

[solid sun]

I’m using the aoe execute build until I literally am dying because I’ve started griefing myself

[lofty warren]

What does this mean?

[jagged pier]

it means on the ptr your gear gets scaled up to that ilvl

in that content

[lofty warren]

Ohh but that doesn't have any impact on the real worlds though right?

[jagged pier]

none

[solar crown]

i can safely assume you completely ignore that IP is capped when playing thane? or do you spam revenge.. i got way to much rage to wait for globals to spend it all

you spend to get outburst, not to get IP shield/buff

[jagged pier]

u ignore cap for both hero specs

[undone beacon]

yes, dump it into IP

[solar crown]

allright, thanks, wanted to make sure

[lofty warren]

1 more are these the dogs that chase you around and give you that annoying af bleed?

Idk wtf the guy at the bottom is maybe it was always skipped

[solid sun]

No you’re thinking of the Vicious Gorgon

And the bleed was fully removed

[lime urchin]

those are not the doggos

[torn gulch]

wasn't the bleed moved to be something stacking on autos?

[solid sun]

It was and then that was removed as well

[lime urchin]

these bad bois
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=164563/vicious-gargon#abilities;mode:lfr

[undone beacon]

The Stoneborn Reaver is a mob in the area between first and second boss that usually got skipped, yeah

[solid sun]

It’s like I’m just forever ignored

[torn gulch]

:))

[lofty warren]

Hooray those bleeding dogs were so annoying

[lime urchin]

I kinda liked it, it made you work for you money

[torn gulch]

i love the fishsticks not being totems anymore

big change

[lofty warren]

Did they do anything about the guys before boss 1 that wind up for a while and then stab the pug healer that didn't move out of the way?

[undone beacon]

I love my guildies

[jagged pier]

looks like mine

1 spec andy

[plush tendon]

I had a good distribution

[jagged pier]

no druid

[plush tendon]

The Paladin has been a last two week project

[frosty mango]

This change was pretty huge

[jagged pier]

no monk

[wintry nymph]

where can you see those ?

[frosty mango]

I made some huge pulls in there after the change

[plush tendon]

sacrifices had to be made; 4 toons is already a lot

[frosty mango]

My fdk hot 50m dps I pulled so much stuff lol

[jagged pier]

1 is already alot

[plush tendon]

true and real

I want to main warrior... but I always play my DK for story stuff

[jagged pier]

i dont have a choice im our only warrior

[hardy snow]

Ive done some keys on druid only for the FoS achievments

[plush tendon]

but I also have to play Paladin next tier

[hardy snow]

otherwise, waste of time to gear another character

[plush tendon]

because I like their tier set TMOG

it has horse shoulders

[rough egret]

some raider.io features?

[harsh trellis]

Hell Yeah fistbump

[harsh trellis]

https://raider.io/the-war-within-season-2-recap

[jagged pier]

raider.io season recap

[wintry nymph]

found it, thanks

[jagged pier]

you were 4 ppl in the io stats for cutoff

just too remind ppl how small a % of th eplayer base do m+

gunna get even smaller when housing coms, cause more casual players will be playing most likely

[harsh trellis]

where is that listed? im lazy

[jagged pier]

its not listed anywhere

its just io stats

are based of characters

not accounts

[harsh trellis]

OH i see what youre sayin

[jagged pier]

so if u have multiple chars u are adding to the over all stat

so when u say like top 250k players its actually not that

it is less cause ppl will have multiple chars most likely

[harsh trellis]

I was trying to figure out how I had a guild member show me I was in their list for most keys pushed and I ran a total of 2 keys with them

[jagged pier]

and thats only out of chars that have ever done a m+

[solid sun]

See @undone beacon I really did bear stuff

[jagged pier]

so doesnt even count the chars that dont at all

[undone beacon]

HELL YEAHHHH

[undone beacon]

I got loose with the moose more than i realized

[solid sun]

How many of those are like one day jaunts into keys

[undone beacon]

Anything after the holy pally is "I'm bored lemme swap specs"

followed by "yeah fuck that"

[solid sun]

lol

[jagged pier]

holy touch grass

[plush tendon]

yea, but Im a mole now

[solid sun]

Also, I really was for really when I said I like surv

[plush tendon]

do 12s, collect tmog and mounts, enjoy delves

[jagged pier]

https://tenor.com/view/the-book-of-boba-fett-this-is-the-way-the-armorer-mandalorian-gif-25545276

[undone beacon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1356461020851474472/1362664297423048764/image0.gif

[plush tendon]

and Im the backup to the backup, backup tank

[jagged pier]

shkip man

even tho after fucking undermine i want out of tanking

horrendous having to do all the mechanics

but then ill just be madge at whoever replaces me cause positioning etc

[harsh trellis]

I was happy with undermine for tanking mechanics

way betterthan season 1

[jagged pier]

https://tenor.com/view/opinion-trash-duck-gif-19841106

[harsh trellis]

I guess you just like boring mechanics in season 1 better

Stand, move, oh its my turn to taunt ok.......

[jagged pier]

no i prefer playing my class

instead of not pressing any buttons

[harsh trellis]

I feel like season 2 had way more mechanics and things to do

and keep track of

[torn gulch]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-watching-weekend-vibe-gif-5457118

[jagged pier]

ive already been through this, having 1 tank of the 2 on 5 of the 8 bosses go and afk or not press buttons

its fucking garbage design

woow i get to do the ball over 400 times while i wait for ppl to learn it when i did it first go with no problem

yay i get to run away and stand still for every party pack

yay i get to run away and place blue circles

then run away and stand still for pillon drops

[harsh trellis]

yeah, it was more stuff over season 1

[jagged pier]

yay i get to run a gold trail for 10 seconds 3 times. soak all the mines and not press buttons

yay i get to ride bombs back then afk to make sure i dunk the bomb at the right time

so fun

amzing

afking for half my progress

[plush tendon]

bro, first week doing Heroic Gally

[plush tendon]

I actually lost my mind and crashed out

[tribal wharf]

i won, i beat the system

[plush tendon]

was fucking miserable as blood

[blissful fable]

Guys what trinkets are the best to bring to season 3?

[jagged pier]

i crashed out after i got 7% uptime on tier set, and ti was during riks inter mission both times

garbage tier set too

[plush tendon]

I took a 3 month break

[jagged pier]

0 skill expression all tier

[plush tendon]

after Sprocket prog

[jagged pier]

not get 35% uptime

unluck

[harsh trellis]

What class is your co tank?

[jagged pier]

bdk

[harsh trellis]

same

[plush tendon]

the tier sets this tier were actually garbo

[jagged pier]

then monk

[harsh trellis]

he said he didnt enjoy oab

[plush tendon]

unimaginative crap

[jagged pier]

'we heard ppl like gamba games'

[jagged pier]

doesnt matter

the ones we want to bring are in the pool again anyway

[tribal wharf]

"chance to proc 8 seconds of 'your X does 8% more dmg'" (x is core part of your rotation like revenge or something with 2 second cd, so its really good as theoretically you can cast it 4 times and this is a 17 dps increase)
is always a garbage effect

when you have to just keep on rotationing and cant really afford to go off rotation, just to appease some set buff or boss thing

most times, it happens when you are like, dying, and you cant feasibly cast something during the window, and it didnt line up with your super power buff that makes you deal 40% more dmg

[solid sun]

Tanking raid sucks

[tribal wharf]

in general, i would prefer less buttons and less button inputs required

but certainly not, like, turn based

[proven stratus]

GCD is basically turn based

[plush tendon]

the last really good tier sets I can remember were SL S3/S4... maybe it was cause they were OP

everything since has been pretty stale (granted, Ill have to look back to double check.... legit cant remember any tier set since that one XD)

[solid sun]

It seems like if tier sets do too much it’s problematic

[plush tendon]

yea, IDC

not like ~~we ~~ blizzard cares about balance

so ill take fun over the fail attempt at balance

[solid sun]

You don’t think it’s been pretty balanced lately?

Outside of a few outliers it seems relatively fine, no?

[plush tendon]

generally speaking, balance has been pretty good

but stale

I guess my complaint is that tier sets shouldnt just be a % dps gain

but ideally impact your gameplay for the season

I just really hated whatever the atrocity we got this season was

[solid sun]

Yeah I hear that a lot. I’m kind of neutral on it

If I like how the spec plays and a tier sets alters the gameplay, that could be a negative

[plush tendon]

that is very true

[solid sun]

Or if I like the way it plays with the tier set, and then I lose it the next season that could also be a negative

[frosty mango]

It’s can be really fun if you have an equally good co tank

[plush tendon]

but I also think innovative tier sets is a great way to test ideas out

[frosty mango]

But imo the fun is like optimizing damage against each other

[plush tendon]

that can later become talents

[solid sun]

It’s just boring. For all the reasons Jakey mentioned

[frosty mango]

I agree, and I generally don’t enjoy it either

[plush tendon]

I tend to like raid tanking just from pure experience; tanks are the ones actually fighting the boss

and dps are like bugs just flying around

[solid sun]

Every now and then there’s a particularly fun boss

[frosty mango]

Fights like gally this tier were moderately fun

[plush tendon]

my issue with raid tanking is that its basically expected that A) Tanks should never die B) your job is generally the easiest, so theres not much to learn C) You spend 80% of prog watching

[frosty mango]

But fights like sprocket make that a wash which is just a miserable boss to fight

[plush tendon]

when fights hit hard, im having fun

[solid sun]

I enjoy the overall experience of raiding but it’s also one reason why my squad enjoys heroic raid and never even seems to desire to step into mythic

[frosty mango]

In most mythic prog the tank is also raid calling

[solid sun]

Doing balls on the trash ball boss was fun until it wasn’t. In heroic our time with it not being fun was way shorter than someone progressing the mythic version

[undone beacon]

Thats what I ended up doing except its annoying because everyone loves to randomly call mechanics over me

Thanks for cutting me off to say the thing I was just about to say grrrr

[frosty mango]

Yeah just mute them

Priority speaker is goat

[solid sun]

You gotta develop the dad voice

[frosty mango]

Honestly 90% of the time I feel like just making a big panel of raid warns and mashing them would be more effective

[solid sun]

We have a raider who gets excited during fights sometimes and tries to speak over me on occasion and always sheepishly apologizes

It’s usually funny

[solid sun]

It’d be too quiet

You don’t really just wanna be a human big wigs

[undone beacon]

I did this when pugging heroic early on... I had a whole action bar of raid warnings I could spam

Honestly it worked pretty well

[frosty mango]

I don’t, but I do wanna kill the boss lol

[undone beacon]

I still keep it around for basic M+ commands like "focus skull", "LoS", "Lust", and "Brez" lmao

[frosty mango]

For bres I always call a specific person

And they hate it

But if you don’t, no one will do it

[undone beacon]

I hit the "Brez" command and then ping

Easy game

[solid sun]

I have our DK do it and tell them it’s their raid utility

Really adds an extra layer to their anger

[frosty mango]

Whenever someone complains I just make them bres the rest of the night

Congratulations you’ve been promoted to chief battle resser

But I don’t need to raid lead this tier

Gonna be great

Gonna karate chop my way to CE in my silent bliss

[undone beacon]

I didnt even want to raidlead, but nobody else was doing it so i started calling shit

[undone beacon]

I need this thanks

[solid sun]

It’s gonna be so sweet when Roid is promoted to new raid lead in his new guild

And he carries me to CE

[frosty mango]

Negative

https://tenor.com/view/naw-psh-nah-will-smith-men-in-black-gif-7161009725433593898

I really would like to get some prot war discord keys in this season

[proven stratus]

5 tank action?

[solid sun]

I been saying this

[undone beacon]

It is the year of the spear

I shall throw da bombs

[jagged pier]

happend in SLs

good times

[undone beacon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/900159715055652864/1167508531788906526/peepoSurvival2.gif

[solar forum]

Last week for Underpin if anyone has been putting it off (like me).

Very easy with end of season item level and Brann. Took 4 tries?

[plush tendon]

I gotta do a 8 mask stormwind this week

and somehow find a hero belt to cata for TMOG

[jagged pier]

vision around next patch

so u got time

[solar forum]

Same. Need bracers too. Spam +6s I guess?

[neon elk]

Go do nightfall scenario, once a week u get token to buy any piece on normal tier, upragde it few times and u have hero piece of your choice

[strong forum]

Ye but the feat of strength isn't

[neon elk]

Would be kinda lame if they kept that ngl , like it wasnt any hard to do it, but it will be super trivial next patch

[jagged pier]

why? if its easy to do now why does it matter if its easier next patch?

[jagged gust]

Ive made like 200k carrying people through visions 8, keeping it hard keeps the spice flowing

[frosty mango]

Because people need to feel special

If other people feel special that’s not ok

“It’s not enough for me to win, you also have to lose”

[neon elk]

Its not about feeling special, if they at least buffed difficulty to be on par next tier then its fine fomo sux

But keeping it in and pretty much giving it for free feels weird to me

[frosty mango]

I dunno even if they didn’t why does it matter. It doesn’t take away from your achievement

[neon elk]

Right , it doesnt, but it still feels weird to me

[jagged gust]

Because that's lame

[lime urchin]

what wait, people pay for this?!

[jagged pier]

yes

[jagged gust]

Dude people pay for everything

some people cant run 11 delves

[neon elk]

But like i said, i dont like fomo, if they increase difficulty to match higher ivl then all fine

[lime urchin]

I am going broke for no reason

[neon elk]

Yea idk how people are paying for even 5masks runs .. like why

[jagged gust]

A fool and their money

[frosty mango]

If it were some prestigious thing I guess I could see - like hof or CE title. But for smaller things that don’t have prestige I’ve always viewed those as individual achievement

Like no one is looking at someone and saying “look at that guy he did 8 masks”

[undone beacon]

i spend all day inspecting people in dorn and seeing if they have done 8mask

[frosty mango]

Then again I also think mythic raid should be ilvl normalized and only award titles and mog so

I might be in the minority here

[neon elk]

Actualy thats something i should get behind

[neon elk]

I get your point, i cant realy explain it i guess, it just feels weird to me if they keep it , thats all

[frosty mango]

It would make rwf way more interesting, and it would make mythic raiding a skill/organization exercise instead of a gear one.

But character progression is also a big part of wow so I can also understand how it may not be a popular approach

[jagged gust]

So personal achievements dont matter, only top end raiders

[frosty mango]

No, non prestigious achievements don’t matter

[jagged gust]

See, that's your issue

it's an elitism thing

[frosty mango]

It’s a community thing

I think it’s fair to say that hof or gladiator are considered prestigious while 8 mask visions is not

[jagged gust]

You view it as easy, therefore achieving it means nothing

[frosty mango]

I personally don’t think any achievements matter, if you wanna give everyone CE titles and mounts for every expansion ever im ok with that

Me getting it personally at a time when I view it is prestigious is all that matters but I don’t think other people having it makes mine any less valuable

[plush tendon]

yea, but I also need the mythic version

Nightfall is champ track

[frosty mango]

It’s the exact opposite of elitism, I view everything as personal achievement and don’t weigh the achievements of others against mine

[neon elk]

Welp then u gotta farm some dungs , do some full armor stacks and pray

[plush tendon]

There are also only two dungeons with plate belts

Workshop and Rook

[neon elk]

Floodgate has one also iirc

[plush tendon]

does it?

[neon elk]

I think it does

[plush tendon]

I checked last night.... but it was 2am

I didnt see one

[neon elk]

Ye it does

Originaly droping from demolition duo

[plush tendon]

[sharp gale]

After 2 tier getting CE, I can say CE is not as prestigious as I saw it, since I was in a very mid guild, who did every CE since nyalotha, it lowered quite a bit my view

[frosty mango]

I think hof is worth more than CE as a guild

But imo most of the time CE is just a time commitment

[plush tendon]

tbf, both are a time commitment

[frosty mango]

I feel like most of the 4/8m guilds raiding 6 hours could get CE if they raided 9

[undone beacon]

The most prestigious part of CE is getting 20 people wrangled until you kill the bosses

Because fuck thats what always kills my guilds

[jagged gust]

a 4/8m guild running an extra day just leads to burnout in my experience

[frosty mango]

But again I don’t really place much value on achieves or titles other than what they mean to me so imo let everyone have the title if they want lol

[sharp gale]

Not even HoF, it depends on the timing of the closing, like if you killed ansurek after 12th November (boss getting destroyed nerfed so HoF fills in 1 week), It really lower my view of the achievment

[jagged gust]

They don't have the skills to progress further, and people get frustrated doing the same boss for a month straight

[frosty mango]

This is a big reason why I don’t really view them as prestige

[plush tendon]

not even that

just a extra day every week of raiding

[frosty mango]

Because simply having the achievement really isn’t even comparable

[plush tendon]

its a huge ask

[undone beacon]

As a guild that put 267 pulls into lockenstock, yeah a third day wouldnt have gotten us there I feel

[frosty mango]

Like let’s say you have a group that raids 4 days 4 hours and grinds their way to CE a week before tier end, and you have a group that raids 2 days 3 hours and they get CE 3 months before

[sharp gale]

Yes bc I just imagine my previous 900 wr guild raiding 5/6 times a week and not 3 times, I think they can get HoF post heavy nerfs

[frosty mango]

Both groups get the same achievement, one group is obviously better than the other - but both groups still accomplished the goal. The group who is less skilled but pushed harder doesn’t deserve it “less” than the other group

They deserve it just as much if not more

[jagged gust]

Think we've had a discussion on this before here, and the consensus was 4-5 day raiding is horrendous

[jagged pier]

Brah i told u to get out of thr 5/6 dayer thats literally we spend mpre time in raid

[frosty mango]

Yeah hard agree lol

[sharp gale]

My current is 500 and strictly 3 per week, I would just imagine adding a fourth for prog = HoF

[jagged pier]

Nah thats not how it works, it can be but rarely

[frosty mango]

I raided super hard until mop and then swapped to 6 hour CE and never looked back

[jagged pier]

like there are 2 days guilds that do HoF, HoF is strictly a skill check of all 25 players in your team

[jagged gust]

Did you wind up turning down that top 100 FR guild you were talking about last season?

[sharp gale]

It is horrendous, but mid players raiding 6 times per week will get HoF, from my knowledge of some French guilds

[frosty mango]

I think 2 day guilds that have a concerted push for CE by adding a third day during some prog are successful and common but I rarely see groups raiding 4 days a week hard prog like @jagged gust said

I think id die raiding 4 nights

[jagged pier]

Brah im strictly 2 days of prog and we dont even push that hard and get CE

[frosty mango]

I’m strict 6 hour 2 day and I refuse to raid more lol

[sharp gale]

Yes kinda, I asked around my « network », they raid a shit ton + add random raids Saturday afternoon

[frosty mango]

That has been enough to get me CE every tier I wanted since mop

[jagged gust]

I'm so jealous of the Sat/Sun afternoon raiders

[sharp gale]

But random raids are the worst thing ever

[frosty mango]

Really? I hated sat/sun raiding

[frosty mango]

Ya that’s wild

Adding a random raid

[jagged gust]

I'd rather raid in my pyjamas while drinking coffee than worry about weekday raiding, or raid eating into my social hours

[frosty mango]

I’d be gkicked so fast

[sharp gale]

I view ppl getting CE with 2 nights high in regard ngl

[frosty mango]

There’s a big spectrum, in mop I played with a lot of GT folks and those guys were very good

[jagged gust]

greater toronto area?

[sharp gale]

For beating the roster boss etc

[frosty mango]

Group therapy

Echelon

I think a lot of those guys went on to rain

Which is still active afaik

Yeah us40 2 nights

[jagged gust]

Speaking of still active, I found my first real guild that I cleared SWP with is still active in classic/mop

Absolute blast from the past

[sharp gale]

Im quite happy with my current guild for now, I didn’t prog yet with them, but good vibe for the reclears and random silken court mini prog

WR 500, 3 nights, i checked french guild above (they are rank 24 French), only 1 guild above raid strictly 3 nights

[mortal cypress]

How did you find them?

[sharp gale]

I find my guilds on wowprogress, always

[jagged pier]

raider io, wow prog

[mortal cypress]

How do you find a non mythic guild on there lol

[jagged pier]

dont just post yourself