protection

[sharp gale]

Spell block ? What 86’d mean ? It’s the anime ?

[undone verge]

oh thank god

no 86'd means to kill or remove something

spellblock I can deal with being gone cause I already forget I have it 90% of the time im ngl, spell reflect is so fun to use

Also im trying to make a meme unkillable raid spec, what do yall think provides more defensive value in a ST fight, ravager (for the rage gen every 90 seconds) or indomitable. Like indomitable sucks now, but I gotta think its passive healing is gonna be better than a 150 rage every 90 seconds

[undone beacon]

86’d is restaurant terminology for removing something from the menu typically

[undone beacon]

Indom is gonna be basically all overhealing in a raid setting

I.e. literally useless vs ravager giving at least more damage and rage for IP is your only goal is “defensive raaaaa”

[undone verge]

yeah but for the meme, cause with this spec im probably gonna be IP capped for most of the time too. So the passive 6% health buff could be solid

[sharp gale]

Tbf I kinda works with the anime too since they are sent to die in war / to erase the ethnic minority

[undone beacon]

idk man it gives the vibe of like, I shot myself in the foot for the meme but if you want to trade damage for health then sure take indom and bsv lol

[undone verge]

sometimes you gotta live out a tank fantasy sometimes you gotta parse farm

depends on the day

[sharp gale]

The meme spec unkillable spec has block 100%

That’s what makes pwar solo tank ego check

[undone verge]

spell block?

[sharp gale]

Block

Simple block

Shield block

[undone verge]

shield block should be solidly covered by bolster and the 2 second extender plus shield charge

Although I guess in a purely defensive oriented mindset you dont press SB when off tanking for the extra dmg so it doesnt even matter

[sharp gale]

And ofc you would take bsv even tho it is 90% useless in raid, in that scenario I want to be defensive

[undone verge]

100%

actually the real interesting one would be booming voice

I definitely think you drop BV for ravager then you can also take indomitable

its 40 rage compared to ~150

[jagged pier]

why would u drop[ booming voice just drop 20% increased adamage on a short cd for no reason

[sharp gale]

Im not really interested in defensive builds since ppl survives raid bosses with 20-30 less ilvl than me

[undone verge]

im doing bullshit dont pay any attention to it Jakey

[undone verge]

Raid bosses are pretty easy to survive tbh, but I like making uber specific builds I will never use in my life

[sharp gale]

Tbf if you are not confortable on a fight to survive, bsv is the only thing I can understand dropping any other talent, full defensive builds can just create aggro issues

[undone verge]

not when youre goated

[sharp gale]

Bc your mate will not do that

[velvet knot]

So im on the ptr right now, using the new talent tree.

[jagged pier]

i mean u get that standard for prognext patch

[velvet knot]

It uh. It feels bad.

Like really bad.

Not quite shadowlands talent reshuffle bad.

But close.

[jagged pier]

as far as im aware u should feel the same

as it hasnt changed te rotation at all

[velvet knot]

It feels really hard to take all the same talents i took before.

[jagged pier]

[sharp gale]

I just read the changes, and it seems it is the same feelings as S1 or S2

[undone verge]

at a certain point going a defensive talent build drops your parse from 95+ to a 75-80, which should never be an aggro issue

which like isnt a good idea, but in a theorhetical sense

[sharp gale]

75 to 95, as dps 1m damage can separate us

And 500k separate 95 to 99

(I don’t have the brain connected to tanks, I tanked in raid 4 months ago)

[undone verge]

I feel like that more just indicated my original number was off, Like my raid sim on my prot atm is 1.6 mil, dropping to defensive talents is only a 200k difference which is like maybe 15% reduction, idk what that would be in parse drop terms, but certainly not enough to create threat issues

[sharp gale]

It’s just : don’t use the parse number as argument, the 75 can be closer to green 25 than the 95s

[undone verge]

fair, from a damage standpoint its not going to create a threat issue if its a good player

[sharp gale]

If you don’t have kinda same burst as your mate, you are not allowed to take the boss first, as example

(Talent out of Booming voice)

[undone verge]

depends, if its a weird situation where you specifically need boss first then you can just use your taunt

in general if its that important you have boss first relying on burst to determine who gets boss probably isnt going to work out well

[sharp gale]

If you take the boss first, you should already always taunt at the end of the pull timer, and taunt doesn’t last the burst window of most tanks

If a boss moves weird at the start of a fight : it’s bc none of the 2 tanks taunted on pull

Which describe just a lack of communication between the 2 tbf

[undone verge]

im not entirely privy to how threat multipliers work, but general as long as your burst isnt shit it shouldnt be a huge example. For example there must be a type of threat multiplier specific to the tank with aggro otherswise we would just run into an issue where the tank that did the most damage would be ripping threat. Even with a 15% reduction on your burst (which is probably over estimating do to cooldowns not changing much with a defensive builds) So a taunt plus a good burst, even with the reduced damage shouldn't have huge threat issues

In general the way most of our offensive cooldowns work is nice, they all have good defensive aspects as well, shield charge, avatar, ravager etc

[sharp gale]

Yes but you are saying talent out of things like 20% of our burst

20% is a large number

[undone verge]

true BV would be pretty big dmg loss, I still dont think it'd be enough for a threat rip though

[sharp gale]

For example : each time I used my cds I took aggro off my mate bc he went more defense bc solo taking party packs

Yes maybe I overreact over booming voice, bc most of the time tank issues are bc one of the two is just doggo / it’s more of a niche thing

[undone verge]

I do see where your coming from, tbh Im arguing from the wrong side generally because the conditions I've set for myself are already against the consensus. But yeah its a bit different from my perspective cause I would rip aggro off of my off tank just during normal rotation, so in my mind losing dps is never going to mean that I lose aggro lol

[sharp gale]

I had the two sides in my previous guild, we recruited a brew (I switched dps) but the ppal was busy 2 weeks on bandit and I had to tank, it was basic rotation taking aggro

But it was more : the brew never really tanked in raid so brain was not raid connected

For example : when we did left/right movement on the assistants, he still was targeting the boss

Or what he targets when he is tanking next to an assistant

[undone verge]

My problem was I was doing like 50% more damage than my co-tank

[sharp gale]

It happened the first week he got recruited, but he managed to improve

[undone verge]

I wish my cotank had that mentallity, in reality if I ripped boss and just got my shit rocked theyd yell at me for being in battle stance, like yeah thats the issue

[sharp gale]

(He was doing 70-75 parses but me AND ppal had issues with him on every bosses during reclears) so parse digital number doesn’t tell the full story

[undone verge]

parses are just gonna be inherently disingenuous, like the dude im talking about was getting 50-60% parses on mythic fights which is pretty good, but like you pointed out the difference between 50-70 is probably the same between like 95-100

[sharp gale]

He was top 15 brew in m+, I was expecting he could learn

[undone verge]

damn lol

[sharp gale]

But still, like on vexie the first day I did double his damage

1m*

[undone verge]

Yeah thats always the shitty part

[sharp gale]

But ppal left my previous guild (maybe bc he didn’t want to suffer the brew learning) and I refused to tank bc I didn’t want to suffer too

It is painful if there is a gap of pro-active competence about boss movement, dps etc

[undone verge]

One of the reasons I left my old raid, besides the fact I was getting busy, was we would progress the entire tier, getting CE right near the end of the tier, but as a tank I'd have my role and damage control down by like the first day of progression so Id spend the next week-4 weeks figuring out how to optimize my rotation for damage, but innevitably have a bad pull here and there where id bleed out, or just get clipped by a oneshot mechanic, and every time they'd blame it on my damage optimization.

Like I'm dying on 1 pull a night, but your dming me after raid telling me to stop doing dps

[sharp gale]

I can’t tell much without context on how you play, maybe you focus look (with your eyes) your general WA pack, maybe you forget something happening or to press something (you have so many tools to remind you) etc

[undone verge]

The only time it was an actual issue was forgotten experiments and echo of neltharian, but both for completely different reasons. FE was actual bleed out, Echo what when I was ripping threat from my cotank and getting my shit rocked

[sharp gale]

I agree, tanks should be allowed mistakes morally, but still, it’s 100% a wipe if you are dead (it is a wipe if 1 specific dps dies I know)

[undone verge]

Its a tricky situation when the reason is threat ripping, cause whos fault is that

[sharp gale]

Both

If something you can prevent by talking = equal responsibility by you it happens

That’s how I view general things

[undone verge]

in general id agree, but in raid if youre getting threat ripped from you that seems like a major problem

[sharp gale]

If ppal has issue with a mech or missed cd def : I need to ask him right away if I need to get involved (like taking this party packsor I move the boss on this timing and we do a double swap aggro)

If we wipe bc my co tank struggle = I created this situation personnally, basically

Omission is culpability

[undone verge]

fair enough, tbf that entire tier I optimized way too hard, but still It became a bit annoying when the other tank would lose threat and id be blammed before we even got a chance to figure out why

I was a crazy parse peter in Abberus

[sharp gale]

For your situation it goes in the Good way and the Evil corporate way, helping your co tank about doing dps, or addressing he needs to be replaced or YOU go

[undone verge]

In the end it worked out cause my schedule changed and they brought in a tank that did mid dps so they didnt have to deal with aggro problems

In the future if I ever get back into CE raiding ill probably just compromise my build for a more general mix, even though the extra damage is always big, it does put the raid as a whole in an awkward situation when one tank is parsing 99s and the other is parsing 50s, cause even though those are both good for prog, it does create some threat issues

and ofc there will be the odd bleed out which is never fun especially on prog

[sharp gale]

The « bleeds out » is always a specific timing you lack something, and for now, just taking bsv guarantee the bleed out to not happen, no need to talent out many stuff

[undone verge]

all the other stuff was a meme but yeah bsv is a pretty solid safe guard

[sharp gale]

Ofc if you play the execute build, it may be the reason, I’m more referring to talent out of standard build

[undone verge]

all of this was back in abberus I havnt raided since

got too busy

[open drift]

What talent would we drop for bsv that doesn’t grief dmg

[sharp gale]

since bsv doesn't do dmg, it will always be a dmg "grief"

[idle copper]

Shock wave doesnt show on Details as Mountain Thane under CC?

[cerulean tusk]

It does, but only if you did actually stun with it

[idle copper]

my details must be bugged, i used it 17 times and non are showing under CC-done

stormbolts not showing either

[desert verge]

Hi, new player to prot war here. Does the macro for stances still work ? I feel like it doesn't work for me.

[solar crown]

What do you mean feel like. You still get an icon over your head when switching stance (?)

[pliant sail]

Prot mains, is this a fun spec to learn? I’ve been a longtime healer, and kinda wanna see the other side of it. Guildmember told me warrior was the best tank to learn on and they seem pretty strong right now too.

[lime mantle]

If you want high APM warrior is good.
if you don't like pressing buttons at all times you likely will really dislike warrior, specially if you dislike 'busywork' buttons.

[rancid tiger]

Hmm, also id say warrior is one of the worst🤣

Id say bear prob

[undone beacon]

Warrior is a very active spec but very satisfying to play

Bear is very simple to learn and play, so if you want ease of use that’s a good option

Obviously amongst prot warriors you’re more likely to be told to pick up the shield and mess around, but honestly I’d say pick the tank that looks the most appealing whether it’s the fantasy or the playstyle and go ham with it

[pallid quiver]

^^^

[rancid tiger]

Yeah, id just say playing a preventive dmg tank

[pallid quiver]

If you're really just wanting to go for easiest to learn tank, it's likely Bear, but after that is Prot War

[rancid tiger]

Is rougher

[undone beacon]

Unless you’re about to jump into +20s, every tank is viable

[rancid tiger]

I reckon dk is easier than prot to jump into as well

[pallid quiver]

You still have to press your DRs before damage even on BDK/VDH etc

[pliant sail]

I gotcha. Actually I main Druid, I was just going off what he had told me. I’ve never tried bear I’ve always been resto or boomkin.

[pallid quiver]

hellllll no, it has, like

actual rotation stuff you have to do

Prot War you can just do SS > TC > Rev in every scenario absolute brain dead and get baseline fine

[pliant sail]

Honestly a shield class sounds pretty cool to me anyway.

[rancid tiger]

Prot pala also more control

[frosty mango]

Is any cc showing? Or is it just empty

[undone beacon]

Then rock that shield bb and shall some faces in

[frosty mango]

Even then every tank is viable lol

[pallid quiver]

Prot Pala is also fairly easy as Lightsmith; Templar isn't like, hard, either, but some people struggle with Shake the Heavens uptime

It's probably even higher APM than Prot War at the moment, so if you don't like slamming lotsa buttons really fast, it might not be your thing

[pliant sail]

I’m not doing high m+. I usually get ksm and that’s about it.

[undone beacon]

Little less so if you haven’t tanked before tho

[undone beacon]

Then yeah, pick the one that looks fun or appeals to your fantasy and get tanky with it

[frosty mango]

The tank is still viable it would be you that’s not viable in that case

[pliant sail]

I’m painfully casual. Not that I don’t wanna do high end content but I dont have the group or the work schedule

[undone beacon]

I already knew that okay damn

Pash the Unviable

[idle copper]

Just intimidating shout in the CC done section

[frosty mango]

Are you testing on dummies?

[idle copper]

No it was a rook run

[frosty mango]

In that case there’s a details sub addon you need to enable for all the ccs to show up, I don’t remember what it’s called but that’s probably your issue

[frosty mango]

More like pash the enviable

[idle copper]

I'll have a look, maybe switching spec changed it? Thing were showing ok as Col

[frosty mango]

Might be a ui bug then, try relogging

Details is really finicky sometimes with stuff like that and I think cc done is technically a script

[idle copper]

It's carried over from last night - but didn't think anything of it then .

I'll uninstall, delete settings and try a reinstall

[frosty mango]

If you can’t fix it ask in the details discord

They’re super active

[idle copper]

Will have a look Ty

[undone beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/nubby-nubby's-number-factory-nubbys-number-factory-pet-nub-gif-10828535552509613360

[frosty mango]

Now back to this. Obviously warrior is the best tanking class

We tolerate bears but they don’t have a cool class discord like we do

Whatever you do, just don’t play demon hunter because we don’t like them. We’re not entirely sure why we don’t like them, other than they’re smelly

[pliant sail]

lol I saw on the wowhead page that BDK’s hate is because shield block. What makes that ability so busted or is it just cause we have 100% uptime on it

[scenic beacon]

BDK just in the gutter, not a fun spec to game on lol

[pallid quiver]

Block is the single strongest damage mitigation tool in the game; it's ridiculous how much work in puts in on anything it works on. You can literally take some tank hits without a CD and walk it off if it's blockable

BDK's biggest issue is that they can sometimes struggle with upfront mitigation, as their default rely ons are RNG (Parry), few of their CDs (IBF), and just having used Death Strike earlier for some blood shield fluff

All of which have some problematic issues with using them

meanwhile, Prot War can upfront mitigate the largest source of damage in the game by pressing one button and looking at mobs

[pliant sail]

Yeah I’ve noticed when I’m healing a bdk the first 3 seconds of a pull are usually pretty rough.

I’m not level 80 yet but is there a certain haste level to get before we can use shield block at 100%?

[pallid quiver]

If you pick Heavy Repercussions instead of Into the Fray, you need 0 haste for 100% uptinme

[pliant sail]

Gotcha

[tribal wharf]

vampires not surviving

[torn whale]

For S3 how do the hero trees look? Is there a clear consensus on which will be better or are they somewhat balanced?

[pallid quiver]

Currently, they're decently close enough, though it might be more of a Thane angle

[torn whale]

Thanks!

[frosty mango]

Bdks also love to complain but they’re probs the only tank that has right to

You’re “tanky” in the sense that you are hard to kill but it really requires you to have the hands on the wheel at all times. If you take a hand off to scratch your ass or sneeze for 2 seconds and miss a death strike you’ll just die

I personally think it’s a dumb system and they should be reworked more around mitigation (maybe something closer to stagger)

[tribal wharf]

should be big leech spec

what warrior can only dream of

[blazing shuttle]

Honestly, after playing BDK for years.

I had to move to Prot War. I tried quickly Bear, Protadin...

[pliant sail]

Wowhead lists both colossus and mountain thane as m+ builds, which one is recommended?

[ashen kestrel]

Wowhead builds are hit or miss - I usually check out murlok.io to see what actual players at the top end are running

[pliant sail]

Ok.

Thanks

[blazing shuttle]

First: BDK feels like... slow at times. It's not even about the "rotation", it is about how meh it feels.
Second: Abom limb removal LOL
Third: What Roidberg said; one mistake and you're done. It does NOT feel fun at times. Quite the contrary, it can be FRUSTRATING. Skill issue ofc, but still.
Fourth: We have little to no utility. Cool, you survive when everyone died!... And you could not help them.

It just feels we got gutted, and getting even more gutted for the sake of being gutted.

[frosty mango]

No no no

[blazing shuttle]

Also; BDK still has the same problem we've been talking about for years.
Death & Decay.

[frosty mango]

The wowhead builds are what you should be following as a new spec player. Do not follow what murloc or archon show because those are not guides those are aggregate data of top players

Players who are vastly more geared and skilled than you

[pliant sail]

The way wow head reads I could just pick either hero tree and try them out.

[frosty mango]

The wowhead builds have detailed explanations written into them as to the pros and cons of each build, most folks are running colossus currently

[pliant sail]

Ah ok I’m kinda reading the guide as I have time being at work today

[frosty mango]

Both are viable, colossus has more damage, thane has a more forgiving playstyle

[blazing shuttle]

Do you like Thunderclapping? Thane.
Do you like big Demolish? Colossus.

[pliant sail]

Might try thane out then at first and move to colossus when I get the feel of tanking down because I know there’s more to it than just staying alive

[high latch]

The one thing I don't like about the Wowhead build is that it says to take Indomitable

[frosty mango]

Things will change when the patch drops in a few weeks so the best thing you can do is just get a handle on the basics of both specs

[blazing shuttle]

Do you like having 3 Shield Slams in a row without a CD?
Thane, my beloved.

[frosty mango]

Which is a good play for brand new players or players who lack nuance

[pliant sail]

Ngl shield slam and thunderclap are two of the coolest abilities I think

[frosty mango]

If you just follow archon or murlok you’ll be running around with no ravager and playing bsv instead of something to help make gather threat more forgiving

[pliant sail]

Yeah. I’ll probably need all the help I can get like I said I’m a healer main, always have been. I just wanted to see what the other side was like. Who knows I might like it more.

Also, is dungeon pathing that important? Like something I should be studying?

[frosty mango]

Routing isn’t super important until the higher end, you can just look at the raider.io weekly routes until you get to more advanced play

As the season goes you’ll learn the routes quickly

[pliant sail]

Awesome. Also, how does spell reflect work exactly I’ve read the guides and stuff. It makes it seem like it treats the spell as if I had casted it? Would that be worth looking into which spells are reflectsble or is it just all of them

Confused me on when I should use it or if I should just keep it on cd always

[high latch]

It varies a lot what can actually be reflected. But it's also a very powerful magic damage reduction CD. It might not be super fun, but you could always check the spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQQCkBEkOadsvO4sTphB1RwzC6Z_3kq00IFaBrCk5Eagz2Jeoox7D7Rk3XwXMINbh4lUg9Vr-3RgoB2/pubhtml#)

[pliant sail]

Ah ty very much. This is super helpful

If this is in the pins I’m sorry. Guess I missed it

It is there. Lol my
Bad

[crystal sierra]

Generally if it's a bolt of some kind, you can reflect it back, if it's a wave/pulse it won't, but reflect still has a magic dr buff attached to it, so it's still worth it to reduce the hit if you need it

[frosty mango]

https://wago.io/pjl-p3su9

This will help while you get used to it

Also if you use plater most profiles will have color coding to show you if a cast is reflectable

For example on my profile if a spell is reflectable and targeting me the cast bar will be bright purple

[pliant sail]

Ah yes that makes sense. I have it set up to change the bar color if a mob has an enrage that I need to soothe right now.

I’ll keep reading the guide and thanks guys for being helpful!

[ashen kestrel]

Hard disagree - may aswell learn to play the spec the way it’s meant to be played - sure you might have to swap a talent or two around at first, but it’s not like you need 10x the skill to play a build from Murlok, they work just fine

[frosty mango]

Typically I’m pretty quick to say it’s my opinion and not a fact but in this case you are just incorrect

[jovial falcon]

15 echo we wipe 2 time on last boss too

[frosty mango]

If you are a fresh warrior and you go scoop a build from murlok then you can have 100x skill but you’re still gonna have a bad time, for starters because you’ll be running into the fray instead of heavy repercussions without having enough haste

And second you’ll be dropping ravager with no understanding of why which is gonna give you a lot of trouble with gather

Taking the top end specs from those sites gives you no nuance or understanding of why the talents are being picked and will in fact probably teach you to play incorrectly

[frosty mango]

Was this with aoe execute?

How did it feel with all the target swapping, it felt bad to me, interested in other opinions

[ashen kestrel]

I’m not suggesting that you go straight to murlok without understanding the basics of the spec - same as copy pasting a build from wowhead without understanding the spec will do nothing for you either if you don’t read and understand the talents

I’m just saying that those builds, in a lot of cases, tend to be better than the stuff wowhead and icy veins put out

[frosty mango]

Yeah but you said to go there and copy the build so that’s literally exactly what you are saying

Better is very subjective and those builds aren’t better for new players

That’s the entire point of all of the detail in the guide

If you’re just gonna copy the guide and not read it that’s on the person, but the info is there

[ashen kestrel]

No, I said wow head is hit or miss and that is what I personally do - it was just another suggestion. It works for me and I’ve never had trouble picking up a spec and looking at the top 5 or so on murlok and making my build from that

[jovial falcon]

yeah

\

[jovial falcon]

its kinda low def tallent for highkeys cant go like that

[frosty mango]

If you looked at my build as a new player you would probably get clapped when you’re learning if you took it

[solid sun]

The guy who writes the wowhead guide is one of this discord’s primary contributors and one of the most knowledgeable pwars there is. Plus dudes like Mwahi who do theory crafting for it. Gonna be hard to win the “just go to murlok.io and wowhead is hit or miss” argument here

[frosty mango]

That’s fair - my point is that you are misunderstanding the point of the wowhead guides. They aren’t hit or miss - they are explicitly designed to be approachable and detailed for new players

[solid sun]

Plus what the top players are doing has no relevance to me or most of us. We don’t play with the players they do and we don’t do the keys they do, for the most part

[frosty mango]

The point isn’t to be “better” the point is to help players learn the basics of a class and be successful in general content

[ashen kestrel]

A new tank will probably get clapped either way, and in the key levels they are likely doing a build doesn’t really have that much impact.

By the time they get to tougher keys, they’ll hopefully have a bit more knowledge to know what talents they need to tweak themselves.

It’s just my opinion, and again I’m not super knowledgeable on prot warrior specifically on wow head, because I haven’t used it in a while.

I just know its reputation can be a bit shaky in the general sense when talking about all class guides as whole, I wasn’t specifically attacking our prot warrior guide. It could be awesome.

Was just giving my 2 cents because murlok works for me but I have a good bit of prior experience.

[frosty mango]

How do you feel about smoked meat and houseplants

[round pendant]

Did they ever address BrV not working with demolish/etc/

intended? bug? nothing?

[ashen kestrel]

Love em both although I don’t have any house plants at the moment

[frosty mango]

Smoked meats are good enough, welcome to the team

Our resident fire safety expert, @ruby ivy, can help you with some getting started tips

Now you’re a certified prot war

[ashen kestrel]

[ashen kestrel]

I was a previous bear main so based on your previous messages I knew you could at least tolerate me

[runic granite]

IMO just copying builds on Murlok is one thing for a dps spec, but another for a tank

[frosty mango]

We do tolerate bears

[ashen kestrel]

Although 12% aura buff it might be time to cope a bit (our dps is still bad)

[frosty mango]

@undone beacon and I are holding out for the dotc dream

Dotc raid dps is fat right now

Bout to be huge

[ashen kestrel]

I love the moon bear aesthetic but it could be fun to switch it up for a season

[frosty mango]

All we need is for them to fix raze and bears could be living the dotc dream

[solid sun]

The problem with bear is that it isn’t pwar

It’s unfortunate but can’t be helped

[frosty mango]

Ursoc didn’t die so that we could run around spamming moonfire. It’s a fucking disappointment to his name

[frosty mango]

See very true

If we could give bears demolish, and warriors ironfur, we’d be living right

My biggest dream is riding into battle on the back of @undone beacon

Flaming sword and shield in hand

Carrying a skull banner

[solid sun]

If pash could handle the front we could cover his ass with our shields

[frosty mango]

Demoralizing our foes and demolishing their lines, while my furry death mount ravages the enemy lines

Imagine

The fact that you can’t use guardian Druids as a battle mount is a huge missed opportunity

[runic granite]

The bright glowy bear skins would make nice mounts

[ashen kestrel]

Symbiotic relationship could just be tweaked to put them on your back for the healing - problem solved

[undone beacon]

YESSS

[undone beacon]

The dream

[frosty mango]

Battle Mount (Passive)
While Incarnation is active, allow an ally to ride as a battle mount. While mounted, allies gain fervor of elune, increasing their damage and healing done by 10% and making them immune to all ground effects.

[undone beacon]

That would actually be kinda giga though

[frosty mango]

It’s spiritwalkers grace

On a long cd

[undone beacon]

Bears and Pwarrs are brothers in rage tanking

And a REAL bear shuns the overuse of magic

[frigid valley]

damn so close to 3m

[undone beacon]

DotC SWEEP, thank you Sabrina

Gonna be huge Raze hours

[frosty mango]

Outdpsing mages is a Roidburg past time

You get the Roidburg seal of approval brother

Let me see that revenge

[frigid valley]

https://tenor.com/view/marge-hiding-shy-grocery-marge-simpson-gif-17727603

pressed IP a wooping 4 times

[ashen kestrel]

Nice! Highest I’ve got so far since picking up the spec is 2.6ish but I’m doing mostly pug w routes with pretty conservative pulls

Although sometimes I catch myself not holding demolish for 5/10 seconds for demo and or avatar to come up

[frosty mango]

Needs more revenge

All the revenge

[ashen kestrel]

I think I’m over pressing IP because I am not beating demolish with revenge either

[frosty mango]

For the most part you only press it when you’re about to overcap rage, so when you pass 70-75 rage

[ashen kestrel]

I guess that’ll be the same next season with thane too? I’ve seen people running the other talent again over FBV where damage adds to your ignore pain?

Although at the same time they said you don’t need to press as much revenge as thane so I’m a bit conflicted on what that means for gameplay

[frosty mango]

You hammer the shit out of it as thane

It’s ogcd and you need to spend rage to get violent outburst procs so you basically just hammer it

You still revenge as thane but only if you can find a spare gcd that you can’t fill with shield slam or thunderclap, which is to say not many

Personally on ptr I shifted from hitting ip as much to trying to full send executes with my excess rage when mobs were in rage so I expect that may be a bit of a change but not much

[frigid valley]

target capped group + thane execute build on ptr was hella fun

[ashen kestrel]

I forgot about the juiced up violent outburst thunder blasts

Season 1 prot warrior was a vibe

[frigid valley]

https://tenor.com/view/awesomeness-tv-awesomeness-tvgi-fs-awesomeness-tv-you-tube-betch-cant-do-it-gif-8927568

me in s1

[royal mist]

Any idea as of yet to when you drop your four set if you have mythic gear?

[warm plinth]

There's no way to know that until we have sims available, which likely wont' be until the patch launches

[frosty mango]

The 2 sets are pretty strong atm so if tuning stays near where it is now I expect we’ll prob replace current mythic tier quickly

[solar crown]

Is there a wa around that is up2date with sense spell reflect sheet? Basically wondering if anyone out time into a simple wa that flashes the icon on reflectable spells, preferably ones you pre-define in some kind of list

[frosty mango]

I linked it earlier

https://wago.io/pjl-p3su9

There it is

[solar crown]

Nice, thank you! Sorry for not searching, im lazy..

[frosty mango]

All good there’s like 50 versions of it on wago

[solar crown]

Yes. I just needed a recommendation for one which is maintained 🙂

This is perfect

[urban bane]

wasnt there some morgan day interview where warrior "utility" was mentioned as being looked at for s3?

or am i making that up

not trying to be a "but blizzard promised" guy; just could've sworn I read that somewhere and unsure if i'm deceiving myself

[frosty mango]

Well they added spell breaker

[urban bane]

[frosty mango]

-# that’s a joke don’t hit me

[runic granite]

I don’t think it was in context of s3 though

[urban bane]

Found it https://www.wowhead.com/news/morgan-day-talks-dps-rankings-with-chinese-dps-competition-commentary-and-q-a-377263#:~:text=to a Warrior --,Battle Rezzing,-would be kind

[frosty mango]

This is wow china

[elder sentinel]

非常非常好！

[frosty mango]

I wouldn’t go as far as to say they’re playing a different game but i would say netease isn’t really the “developer”

[warm plinth]

Morgan Day is the assistant game director.

China has the same game we do; they don't balance it differently or anything like that

Just some visual shit that's different and they have the new classic servers that I haven't looked into

[elder sentinel]

China government been recently inventing into esports as well, want to be highly competitive

我高兴

[frosty mango]

No but their communication with the Chinese market is not the same as what we’d get

[warm plinth]

I mean, sure, but they aren't going to say "hey we're thinking about adding this" to one region and have it not apply to other regions

If they add a warrior brez in China, they are adding it everywhere

[frosty mango]

There’s a reason blizz never says anything remotely close to this to N.A. audiences, because if words leave their lips the N.A. audience views it as a commitment

So I’m sure they have had all kinds of “what if” discussions but I wouldn’t take anything like that as even remotely likely because the statement was targeted as a different culture in a different setting

Plus we all know blizz won’t give us more utility, the universe might implode

[warm plinth]

I don't know anything when it comes to Blizzard. They've done a lot of shit I never thought they'd do

[frosty mango]

I think if you say something to the N.A. audience like “oh yeah we were discussing warrior utility and battle res came up” then the N.A. audience would take that as “blizz said they’d add warrior utility in 11.3”

[lucid mica]

Sorry to interrupt, how does prot do against gally tankbuster and bombs after? I usually do rounds 1-3-4 as vdh but idk about prot, thank you in advance

[pallid quiver]

what makes you think literally anywhere else in the world is different

[frosty mango]

Spell block and face boss

[pallid quiver]

It's able to be done, if that's your question

[warm plinth]

We see all of the Chinese communications that involve interviews/Q&A anyway. Saying it to China is effectively no different than saying it to the other regions.

[pallid quiver]

If you're looking for ways to go about handling it, I believe Sense and Jakeyplops both have youtube vids of them doing bombs? don't hold me to that, i haven't looked at myth raid that much this tier

@jagged pier am i liar, do you not have a vid

[jagged pier]

i mean i dont do all the bombs

i just do the ones i drop

having one tank do them all seemed like a dumb choice to us

i dont think sense did it ither, but also did it differently to me too

or we talking mug'zee bombs?

[warm plinth]

Nah he's talking about Gally

[frosty mango]

It is, because the quote really just says they have discussed it

“leading to debates on what kind of cool utility they could give to a Warrior - Battle Rezzing would be kind of hilarious, but it's something the team has been thinking about looking forward to Season 3”

And you never see them say anything that can be remotely construed as a commitment to the n/a audience

[pallid quiver]

Yeah, it was Gally iirc

[jagged pier]

back to back set is fine

just spell block the second set

[warm plinth]

Who said anything about a commitment? The original question the guy asked was if there was an interview where warrior utility was mentioned as being looked at for season 3. The answer to that question is yes. No one said they committed to anything.

[jagged pier]

and external the first with shield wall

[frosty mango]

I’m not saying they won’t do it, just maybe…..consider interviews from the Asian market as less formal

I wish they’d debate giving skull banner back

[jagged pier]

thats not utility

[torn gulch]

disrupting shout baseline

should be a thing

maybe something like vigilance

a significantly higher shield on intervene

an invigorating banner that heals our party based on our damage

there can be lots of ideas for our utility

[frosty mango]

Shh

Making champ spear work like sigil of chains would be a good start

[lucid mica]

Spellblock the bombs and do them from boss to back to face the boss is what you are saying?

[urban bane]

compared to what the poddyc? xdd

[jagged pier]

ive literally never done that

i just spell block the big circle and ride them back

[lucid mica]

Aight I didn't know :((( thank you!

[nocturne spindle]

i usually charge boss>ride like 3 out>charge back in> hit the close one

but you can just click them backwards if you want

[restive oak]

i just made the pally tank do the duds, gg

[sharp merlin]

Boy trying to get 3k on an alt is rough

[prime plover]

is there any good guides for trinkets for next season yet?

[sharp merlin]

I have yet to time a Priory in the last month ahaha

[nocturne spindle]

guides will come out once were closer to patch and numbers are final

[prime plover]

tyty

[frosty mango]

Whatcha playing

[wild bolt]

Yoda has a trinket video that’s pretty extensive if you just want to know what’s available but yeah, nothings definitive until tuning is final. Cheat death trinket from the raid does look pretty bad regardless though.

[solid sun]

Guys

It’s almost time for season 3

I can’t wait to come in here after key sessions and let you know all the zany ways I got bonked on my head

[frosty mango]

We’re gonna be gaming

[inland garnet]

Interesting. Isn't the answer obvious, however? We need a Banner

[frosty mango]

Yes, and the ability to ride Druids

[inland garnet]

:)))

[lusty grotto]

[solid sun]

It’s almost time to leave the sand dunes

[lusty grotto]

yes

that is indeed true

[solid sun]

Any news from the trial?

[jagged gust]

Gearing up my dorf for S3, parsed an 83/84 on heroic sprocket and gally at ilvl 654

[lusty grotto]

we will see what happens

[lusty grotto]

no clue tbh, we'll see this week

[undone beacon]

i cant wait to be able to play the game again pog

[ashen kestrel]

how do you guys usually manage the big gorechop lust pull in top? ie at the start of that wing

i find at 16+ its becoming a nightmare in pugs. arcane mages blasting as im gathering , have to quickly stop and aoe silence to get aggro back, and then dont get the hallway pack in right away

no one stacking so little shits just leaping everywhere and aoe kick is gone so getting to one as the tank to kick it can be difficult also

it sucks when defensively and offensively you feel like youre gaming in these keys but things just go to shit with no sense of control

[restive oak]

find non-monkey dps

[cerulean tusk]

Answer is as simple as: If your team aint working with you, do the best you can do out of the situation.

If it is a premade, tell them what to do next time.

PuG? Pray for player RNG

[restive oak]

i popped my cds while you grouping, why no aggro tank?

[ashen kestrel]

XD - two of them had like 3.5k mains so i thought we'd be okay in 16 - although we had to 4 man xav from 80% because healer died to frontal and then druid died while ressing him

[restive oak]

that sounds like a long fight

[ashen kestrel]

I think at this point ill just get what practice in I can and then try get ahead of the curve next season a bit - i came back 2 months into this season so im with a lot of hardstuck gamers now in these mid-high keys

[ashen kestrel]

i think it was almost 5 mins (edit: it was 5:10)

[restive oak]

push early or dont :p

[ashen kestrel]

yeah - i booked the week off work this time for it so ill just push as much as i can week 1 and hopefully set myself up for a decent season

ive only just rolled back to prot last week so as long as i can get some reps in and know that i can live, i guess thatll have to be good enough at this point

[mortal cypress]

Keep letting the mage die and say "you gonna learn boi! "

[ashen kestrel]

XD - if im rolling with prot it might be a case of joining phys only keys next season - at least then they'll fucking stack for leap mechanics too!

[stiff gate]

It’s worth considering that you don’t have to pull the hallway pat in immediately. My group didn’t in both of the 18s we timed, just chained it after the first caster or two died.

If your dps are decent the timer is not tight enough on 16 that it should brick your run to lose 15 sec there, but you probably WILL brick the key wiping to that.

[ashen kestrel]

i tried to wait and the mage decided to also pull it for me after fucking up the gather

but generally i do like to try and wait and chain yeah, especially because we did a double mini skip so saved hella time there

i think because the second boss was such a mess they were panicking about time

i tried explaing that and the dk was like 'thats what lust is for!' and i was like yeah but like give 10 seconds and i will chain it

just the usual zug zug antics

[cerulean tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/well-there-it-is-nods-smiling-gif-14487554

[ashen kestrel]

🧙

[mighty valley]

Yeah… sometimes the answer is truly “it’s not your fault” lol

You can pre-explain big pulls in a couple messages and hope people read

But you don’t have tools to solve complete fuckups by everyone else on the team

[ashen kestrel]

the elusive 3m draws closer - need MOAR Revenge casts, and prolly need a bit better on execute to

[ashen kestrel]

yeah, was an 'is what it is' moment

[ashen kestrel]

the dk asked me if i was some famous femboy called 'NotChippy' before the key started and looking back that should have told me all I needed to know

[mighty valley]

It’s true, if you were a famous femboy you would’ve had all the tools to make it go perfect

[mighty valley]

Is this also from TOP? Feel like if you go to any bigger pull dungeon you’ll hit 3M

[ashen kestrel]

Oh no I wish haha, usually i get like 2.2-2.3ish there - this was a meadery pug with semi conservative pulling as a few folks were gearing alts

sitting at 679 right now so not giga BIS but pretty well geared

[mighty valley]

Ah yeah, in that case it’s mostly just about getting big stable pulls

[ashen kestrel]

yeah, my overall in TOP fluctuates the most id say just due to if we skip none, 1 or 2 minis depending on the key level - i dont think ive completed one on war with a double mini skip so would be interested to see what i could push it to there

[undone lake]

what can i drop to pick disrupting shout?

[warm plinth]

Indomitable

[chilly brook]

Indom is giga useless

[alpine anvil]

how bad is this for +9 top

there is so much shit to press i feel like im messing up so hard lmao

definitely not managing rage properly

[cedar rune]

we running haste for the belt?

been running more prot keys than arms, so just curious

[frosty mango]

Your tome looks low, is this a floodgate or cinder?

[frosty mango]

Haste/crit will be best for damage but I run energy shield

It’s pretty close for damage is gives me a decent buffer

[frosty mango]

This looks in line with what I’d expect for a lower top

Shield slam will be relatively higher there

[frosty mango]

Top is really tough for overalls

I just did a carry 13 and finished at 2.5m and that was a 99 parse

Sometimes I wonder if playing a more single focused thane build may net more dps in top

Just because you spend so much time on bosses

[small steeple]

are you playing MT on live too? not just ptr?

[alpine anvil]

also about cinderbrew.. im 640 ilvl no tier.. and i tried to pull like 2 packs on the right side of cinderbrew, i went in with shield wall up even

and i just fucking dropped in like 3 seconds

is that dungeon just really shit for us? or for tanks in general, i can pull like hella big in almost any other dungeon but that one was just destroying me

[small steeple]

can't tell without a log for it, but did you have shield block up or show your back?

[grim pilot]

if you're 640 ilv no tier then you're just unexperienced, I'd focus on personal gameplay over whatever dungeon does, as at that level there should be no difference inbetween the dungeons

cinderbrew first pull hurts when bleed from patrons stack

[alpine anvil]

it was like the mega something and one other ability that were just trucking

how do you get rage for shield block at the start?

[small steeple]

charge, avatar, demo shout

[alpine anvil]

wowhead says charge to get into melee range but t hen taunt and shield block before you're in melee range lol

yea ok

it just felt like in the time i did that

and had pressed my spear and stuff

i was like already starving for ignore pain

maybe i should take ravager for some more rage at the start of the pull

[grim pilot]

ravager + avatar will get you rage

also just shield charge

[alpine anvil]

is the shield charge that late just to optimize dmg

[grim pilot]

this is wowhead guide it's gonna be following the APL

which means whatever does most damage yes

this is the opener of a current rank 1 pwar

[alpine anvil]

hmm

im also playing mountain thane just cause its a bit easier to understand as a beginner

and it feels safer to me

[grim pilot]

It won't make a difference in your first few globals

What hero talent are you

[alpine anvil]

mountain thane

[grim pilot]

I was continuing my sentence not asking, you gave me an answer above my reply xd

[alpine anvil]

oh lol

[sharp merlin]

Brew

[mighty valley]

either press avatar early or shield charge early

feel like I usually do charge and avatar for my first shield block rage

so I can hold shield charge til more are grouped

but idk you can be flexible, the important part is getting shield block up

[nocturne spindle]

just use the forbidden macro

#protection message

🙂

[sharp merlin]

But avatar and demo shout are on the GCD, how does that work?

[mighty valley]

avatar is not

(it’s a meme macro regardless)

[sharp gale]

Just take as general thing : wowhead openers are like raid / 0 context openers, just the fact you connect multiple packs (movement) can change your opener whatever spec you are playing

[nocturne spindle]

demo shout is the only thing on the gcd in that macro

i use it

[rancid tiger]

Thane is gonna be the choice season 3 r?

I might have to do some early key tankin

[viral grove]

Is it worth keeping shield block up when you're not tanking to keep the shield slam damage buff?

[feral gulch]

@alpine anvil just live lol

[waxen frigate]

Generally yeah but it comes down to whether you’ll have it when you need it

[violet ginkgo]

I mean with enough haste you will get 100% uptime anyway so yeah treat is as bonus to keep the shield slam damage buff.

[wooden spruce]

so after all the ups and downs, we eating good? because i really want to leave my bkd and go back to full zug zug with my Orc Warr

[thorn dune]

is it ok to last stand to make sure you have 100% block uptime? or do you need to save it?

[ashen kestrel]

Ye was cinder

[mental gyro]

hey warriors! is there already a trend in terms of hero talents visible?

[waxen frigate]

Ngl I haven’t played a lot of pwarr recently so wasn’t sure if we were at that point in haste yet lmao

[violet ginkgo]

WIth the current tier set you definitely hitting 100% uptime and enough haste, remember your shield charge also granting shield block

[mellow bridge]

depending on your build

[jagged pier]

its 100% effective uptime

u will have gaps after a period of time

think its like 2:30-3min u will start to see gaps

[frosty mango]

Generally no but I do mess with it from time to time just for fun

[frosty mango]

Not sure what you’re asking here

[viral grove]

Ty for the input!

[frosty mango]

You can have zero haste and 100% uptime you just play heavy repercussions l

[fluid widget]

How bad is it to have a macro with shield slam and shield block?

[warm plinth]

Last Stand doesn't provide shield block unless you run a talent you shouldn't be running

[warm plinth]

In what context? Like you want to unbind shield block and only have it on shield slam? That's very bad

[fluid widget]

Yup so that anytime it’s off cd you have shield block used

[viral grove]

I find I burn through my charges and don't have it when I need it if I block every time I slam, but I do have slam macrod with block and ignore pain to make sure I react fast to shield block procs. I have shield slam on its own as a separate button

[warm plinth]

It's a bad habit, and it WILL cause shield block gaps

[fluid widget]

Aight time to learn how to be play correctly again

Shield slam ignore pain as a separate macro I do like

[jagged pier]

yu mean ignore pain shield slam macro

because we shouldnt be pressing it to cast SS

that has its own bind

[frosty mango]

As long as you have sufficient haste you’re almost certainly going to be fine macroing shield block to shield Slam.

People will tell you it’s evil and you shouldn’t do it (me included) because it’s going lead to scenarios where you will send shield block before a long down time and waste your rage

It also creates muscle memory that could be very detrimental to you in the event shield block is ever changed or tuned to alter uptimes.

So no you shouldn’t do it but hopefully that helps to understand why

In other news, who can live like this

Is there anywhere in America where it’s not hot and disgustingly humid all summer

[kind urchin]

Nope

Oops, replied to the wrong one

[frosty mango]

That’s ok it fits for both

[mortal cypress]

Alaska?

[frosty mango]

I’d strongly consider it

[fluid widget]

That one yes not ignore pain on every shield slam

[fluid widget]

Yeah I’m gonna have to relearn muscle memory since I’ve been doing it out of laziness this past season. Appreciate the feedback

[mental gyro]

sorry, I meant in what way the tuning effected the choice of hero talents, with the new set bonus etc. Will we stick with colossus or is mountain thane more the go to again?

[frosty mango]

It’s up in the air. Tuning is very close right now.

Likely we end up thane

But there may be a scenario where we swap depending on dungeon, it’s hard to say at the moment because both are close with thane appearing to be slightly ahead

[mental gyro]

sounds exciting to be honest. I like the fast pace of thane but colossus was interesting I guess ^^

[median garnet]

fyi do not update mdt if you still want to use your s2 routes for the next week or so

[warm plinth]

you're not my dad!

[warm plinth]

That's an interesting bug lol. Pulls are still correct on the right but it looks like someone played cat's cradle with the selection lines.

Oh wait, they aren't right. They're weird.

What the

[royal mist]

Has there been discussion on first craft next tier? Trying to make sure I have my current embellishments in spots that are relevant for next tier.

For a mythic raider who will probably kill first two bosses in the first 3 ish weeks.

[warm plinth]

Same as always. Shield>Weapon>Embellishments; make your own judgment calls based on how likely/not likely you are to get a shield or weapon early from Mythic

[royal mist]

Tracking. Just don’t waste the craft on a shield if you are basically guaranteed it before your third craft is available? Sound accurate?

[warm plinth]

You can create your own timeline but shield is generally the first item you craft (the order I listed is the order you should generally craft). But if the raid has a shield on an early boss and you're likely/guaranteed to get that shield if it drops, then you're better off making e.g. a weapon with your first spark since there's no point in crafting an item you'll replace the following week or something

RNG is always a factor though, since obviously the shield may just not drop

[royal mist]

Aight. Might just chat with the other tank. One craft shield, one on weapon. So if we see one of each at least we balance out.

[warm plinth]

Not a bad idea

[frosty mango]

Or, hear me out

Make him craft both and you take all the loot

[pale karma]

How does the 11.2 cloak proc interact with ignore pain?

[warm plinth]

If it behaves normally, the 20% reduction from the shield will be done first, then IP will affect the remaining

[pale karma]

Does the DR stack with each drawing from their respective pool, or does one get exhausted first before eating into the other?

[warm plinth]

The reshii wrap effect would be hit fully, then any damage left over would be affected by Ignore Pain.

So for a simplistic example, say you have a 3 million reshii absorb and a 1 million Ignore Pain absorb and you take a 1 million hit. Reshii would reduce the 1 million by 20% to 800k, Ignore pain would then reduce the remaining 800k to 400k

You'd have 2.8 mil left on Reshii, and 600k left on IP

[pale karma]

With block too that’s a lot of DR

Nice. Thanks

[warm plinth]

Well, block being actual damage reduction, it would be calculated prior

So the 1 million damage hit would be after block had reduced it already

[pale karma]

Out of my own curiosity, how does the game decide which order to arrange those? You can imagine other absorbs from healers or trinkets.

[warm plinth]

1. Damage reduction
2. Full absorbs
3. Non-IP partial absorbs
4. IP

If you have multiple of one type, generally they are consumed in size order (e.g. bigger full absorbs will be consumed before smaller ones)

[pale karma]

Within each category is it first in, first out?

Got it.

[warm plinth]

Damage reduction is fully multiplicative though, which is why you rarely want more than one active at the same time if it's not needed

[frosty mango]

That’s a lot of mathin for warrior

[warm plinth]

ikr

Remove the spec

Too complicated

[frosty mango]

https://tenor.com/view/bruce-banner-big-monster-thor-ragnarok-hulk-gif-11571578

Actual video of me tanking

[pale karma]

Is demo shout different because it reduces the damage before it “leaves” the source?

[warm plinth]

I'm actually not sure. We don't consider Demo Shout (generally speaking) in the context of stacking DR simply because we send it on CD for Booming Voice.

[pale karma]

All good. I have no reason for the question other than it’s early morning haha.

[warm plinth]

I assume it works the same way as a normal DR spell like Shield Wall, but I am not 100%

[pale karma]

Appreciate it.

[frosty mango]

Demo works like other drs

It’s targeted based on source but for calculations I believe it functions exactly as it the buff were on you instead of a debuff on the mob

[pale karma]

I imagine it’s the same too. There are a lot of tank abilities that apply debuffs that would also behave differently if so.

[obsidian adder]

Hey when Shield block is up do I press Shield block again?

[lucid mica]

Duration stacks up to 24 iirc, you can press it back to back

[warm plinth]

You should only do so if you know it won't be wasted

[neat remnant]

New to warrior tank (and tank in general). I got the seaforium pacemaker from the cartel chip vendor, but I'm struggling to decide on what to get next. I am thinkin weapon, shield, ring, or one of the tank trinkets. I'm leaning towards weapon though

[frosty mango]

If you are not planning on farming at this point in the season, the tome trinket from priory is a good choice

Otherwise it doesn’t particularly matter - crafting a shield would be a much better choice

[frosty mango]

When he says wasted he means not over capping OR pressing it and then not being in combat for like 20s

[cedar rune]

We can’t have 100% shield block uptime, can we?

With the length of the CD ? Even when factoring in SC it seems like I always end up with a small gap

[jagged gust]

depends on talents, amount of haste and tier set procs

you can have 100% uptime, but if your haste is too low you need to swap from ITF to HR.

Or if you're on the low end of acceptable haste for ITF, you'll also see gaps. But that number is lower than ever with current tier set and the new belt set to haste

But because of rng sometimes you get screwed, long story short get more haste.

[native ember]

is the spark bug gonna work this season or did they actually fix it this time lol

[frosty mango]

You can have 100% functional uptime meaning while mobs are hitting me it’s up

In reality that looks like 96-97

[cedar rune]

ahhh gotchya, yeah makes sense

[frosty mango]

Nah we’ll just have tbc anniversary

Then classic anniversary remix

Then classic anniversary remix classic

[sharp gale]

Demo shout don’t apply to environnement damage (things you can’t hit obviously), that’s the only change between demo DR and wall DR

For example a boss with a rot damage coming from the room, demo shout doesn’t work

[frosty mango]

AFAIK demo applies a debuff to the mob and then when that mob has a damage event, it checks the target, and if it’s the caster of the demo shout, then it’s applied at the same time as like shield wall multiplicatively

Im not sure where in the chain it factors but I assume like everything else it’s largest to smallest

[sharp gale]

If it’s multiplicative you can do whatever order, you get the same number

Bc math

If it’s like income tax, it’s another calculation

100 x 0.9 x 0.8 x 0.6 = 100 x 0.6 x0.8 x 0.9

[warm plinth]

DR is just multiplicative, yeah

Order makes no difference

[frosty mango]

I mean absorbs etc

There’s an order I just can’t look it up atm

[warm plinth]

Absorbs are full absorbs large to small and then partial absorbs and then IP

[frosty mango]

Yeah and DR is before absorbs right?

[warm plinth]

Yeah

[frosty mango]

I think it goes
Armor > Dr > absorbs

Does armor still count as its own calc?

I know it used to

[sharp gale]

Ofc it is bugged, I wanted to check with my beautiful crit block

[frosty mango]

lol

[sharp gale]

Since it goes in armor, but U is cringe

[sharp merlin]

man people are the biggest pussies in this game, they want huge pulls, do em.. they can't survive them though, and then send you a lovely message when the key bricks, and block you so you can't respond. People like this deserve to stub their toe on their couches

[waxen lion]

Does anyone know when exactly to taunt gallywix so he won't run away after tank cleave on p1?

[meager quail]

That's too kind. They should stub their toe on their other toe. That way they've stubbed two toes!

[sharp merlin]

but you have to be pretty lame to flame someone and block them right away lol

If I don't take the dogs in Workshop in one pull, people are gonna complain. Maybe try putting a defensive on you absolute helmet. Dies to Fiery Jaws, doesn't use a defensive or healthstone

[frosty mango]

We’ve all tried and failed, but if you figure out how to do it you let us know

[waxen lion]

well, that shucks

[kind urchin]

I hope they step on a pile of Legos.

[prime sphinx]

Just taunt right after the cast finishes

[mellow bridge]

^

[worthy lichen]

anyone know what the timing window is to reflect multiple spells with 1 reflect?

[lunar flare]

The best thing I ever did in this game was open the chat window settings and disable whispers while pugging. I even set a DND auto reply saying this. And I just know it further tilts anyone already tilted enough to try insult me

[sharp merlin]

How do I do this?

[lunar flare]

Near the chat window there’s that little tab I think? If you right click that, it’s around there somewhere

I’m not logged in atm so can’t check

It lets you select the feeds each window/tab receives

[frosty mango]

The spells need to finish at the exact same time

Very few opportunities this tier - priory and dark flame is it

[worthy lichen]

does travel time matter? or just cast finish?

[strong forum]

just cast finish

[worthy lichen]

ah ok, ty

[strong forum]

best example is someone casting a spell on you, you SR, then mount up and fly away as they finish the cast

you can see the projectile chase you forever

[sharp merlin]

That’s pretty cool ^^

[strong forum]

once it eventually hits you even 5min later itll get bounched back

[worthy lichen]

neat

[lunar flare]

Imagine going about your day and then you get slapped by a spell you threw at someone 30 minutes ago

[jagged gust]

I mean serves them right

Who just throws a fireball

honestly

[frosty mango]

the only functional multi-reflect this tier is priory

you can shockwave the double priest pulls and get a double reflect off when they sync, but only if no one else is in combat

so limited usefulness

[neon elk]

Also in dfc for those smallies after 2nd boss, kinda fun to reflect 10 bolts, even if they are weak

[worthy lichen]

im on the ptr trying to see if i can get hard light baton to sync for reflect

dunno how the anti sync works though

ya doesnt sync

[warm plinth]

I was too slow rip

[bleak breach]

What’s the thoughts on FBV in MT

Obviously not as effective, but from my playing around on ptr I seem to have so much rage dumped into ip I’m not dropping it

So was thinking maybe better playing FBV for actual healing then BV just overfilling ip

[jagged gust]

Some sound logic

[bleak breach]

I guess it will just depend how IP holds at high content, but you’re going to drop it there no matter what?

[frosty mango]

Imo fbv will be the play for lower keys while you’re higher geared for the reason you listed

[bleak breach]

I kinda feel the same in high keys too?
Normally you just start taking so much damage you struggle to keep ip outside of initial cast even with BV, so kinda think for that reason FBV will be better.

[frosty mango]

I noticed it started falling around 13-14

Eh mine doesnt really fall too much with brv with the exception of halls because those dogs are gross

[solid sun]

Just don’t let the dogs touch you

No touchy

[frosty mango]

Kiting isn’t tanking

I will stand and deliver

Or not stand at all

[solid sun]

Kiting is routing with style

[frosty mango]

I didn’t equip a shield to run away from the mobs

[undone beacon]

waiter waiter bring back necrotic

Necrotic sanguine week please

[solid sun]

Leaping over the fence repeatedly while a silly dog tries to get you will always be more entertaining than standing there and bonking vampires on the head

[solid sun]

Do you follow this philosophy anytime a tank mechanic in raid requires you to run away to place a puddle somewhere or whatever else

Because tbh I’d really respect the hell out of you telling everyone else to move

“I got a shield here, guys. I’m not moving”

[neon elk]

Didnt they remove or nerf hard that bleed ?

[solid sun]

They removed the bleed and then attached it to the dog’s auto attack

[kind urchin]

Teeming Skittish

[neon elk]

So its even worse ? Xd

[bleak breach]

I’m with ya

No kiting for me

Be a man

[vocal cave]

skittish in current game would be hilarious

[solid sun]

Idk I get that I’m very alone here but to me the “kiting isn’t tanking” mantra was valid when every dungeon had the tanks bailing on pulls

But having a mob here or there that will just fuck your day up if you don’t kite is fine with me

Especially if that mob moves slow and for whatever reason I’m remembering the dogs moving slow

[undone beacon]

Watching tanks die to the add before the Jailer in Sepulcher after casting a highly telegraphed “time to kite” spell was always funny

[frosty mango]

Sometimes

If moving means the boss moves then I view that as a net wash and will usually have the raid move

Because you lose more dps trying to get the damn thing back into place

But if we’re already going to be moving no I will move lol

[frosty mango]

If the mech is to kite - aka fixate focus

That’s fine

But if you are forced to kite an entire pull because a bleed is overtuned that is poor tuning and should be fixed

Halls of atonement is not laid out to promote kiting that was painfully obvious the first time it was released

Cinderbrew first pulls are a good example, you may need to kite off a debuff if the pulls goes too long but you don’t need to kite constantly

As it stands you have to kite those dumb ass dogs constantly

[solid sun]

I never saw any issues finding ways to kite the dogs

Idk if they redid anything in there to make it worse but during SL I never found myself thinking, “wow where do I go?”

[frosty mango]

It becomes an issue when you need to make more efficient pull sizing which means you’re dragging them

Especially left from the start when you drop down

[worthy lichen]

The first pull of streets syncs up just right for spell reflect

[solid sun]

What does that mean? We always have shield block up anyways

[worthy lichen]

reflect i mean sorry

[solid sun]

Ooo that’s pretty nice

[frosty mango]

Big reflect gaming

[solid sun]

I can’t wait to reflect the dogs in my dungeon to roid

[frosty mango]

I’d be pumped if you could

[solid sun]

Like Tetris battling

[frosty mango]

As with everything else, we will find a way

[solid sun]

Sending mobs to each others dungeons in a competitive m+ mode

Yeah we will. I’m not worried about any of the dungeons

Or the raid

I’m just ready for the season to start

[mellow bridge]

You do know the bleed is gone btw?

[pale karma]

Indeed. So. Many. Mount. Runs.

[mellow bridge]

The dogs don't do anything anymore to warrs

You can even facetank them during enrage lmao

[worthy lichen]

the bleeds gone?

[mellow bridge]

Yes

[worthy lichen]

was that even in the patch notes?

[frosty mango]

Since when

[mellow bridge]

Either this or last dungeon tuning

Don't remember

[frosty mango]

Def not last I ran it last week and it was still there

Big vibes

[solid sun]

I told you the dogs weren’t even a problem

You never trust me

[frosty mango]

It doesn’t count because you didn’t know

[solid sun]

Details

[frosty mango]

This man could be lying to us

Pepega in disguise

[worthy lichen]

it is indeed gone

[mellow bridge]

Halls is a yoke of a key for warr as it stands

Maybe the mortal strike hurts? Didn't do it high enough to really notice

Not sure if it's blockable or not

[frosty mango]

There it is

This week

Jul 16th changes, so I guess last week

[mighty valley]

What’s even left in this dungeon

[solid sun]

Completing it

[small steeple]

where did you find this? I can't find where they have dungeon tuning notes

[frosty mango]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/dungeon-testing-july-8th-july-16th/2129612

[solid sun]

How’s the patch being released

Are we getting a do nothing prep week

Or is it all coming out with the patch

[mighty valley]

Probably with computers

[solid sun]

No shot. I bet it’s ran on a steam engine

[mighty valley]

Uhhhhh I think there’s a week before the season starts

To actually answer the question

(With uncertainty)

[mellow bridge]

It's a bit diff this time

Officially it's season start but no m+

That means tho that you can get a s3 vault from delves/m+ and potentially get a tset piece?

Or you just pick a socket for your bracers which you're gonna craft anyways at some point

[solid sun]

Does season start but no m+ mean delves and raid are open but no keys?

[restive oak]

just m0

and like the intro quests to new patch

and i guess there will be a new zone or something

then m+ and raid opens week after

[mighty valley]

Is it m0 for the new rotation or just all the tww dungeons again

[alpine anvil]

do i craft weapon or shield first? both same ilvl

[mighty valley]

shield has higher overall value to you living

mostly depends if you expect to get a mythic shield easily from raid

[alpine anvil]

im n ot raiding

so probably craft shield first

[frosty mango]

New dungeons afaik

[exotic basin]

Is there any embellishment you can put on a crafted shield?

[mortal cypress]

Dawnthread

[exotic basin]

Ty

[undone hull]

All tww dungeons will have the updated baseline gear. I believe it’s 681.

For M0 that is. It’ll be weekly lockouts instead of daily like in the first season.

[tulip pumice]

Boys dumb question, is there a haste break point when we should be using critical chain over spark burst or just use what you want?

[sharp gale]

I am the Hasteful

Yes fury gear gives ton of mastery

[pallid quiver]

It'd honestly depend on your char's currently possessed stats most likely, so that's a sim angle probably. Well, as long as you don't feel you need the haste defensively

[last ivy]

Hey guys, I want to start tanking this season for the first time ever. Ive played for the last year and a half, but only DPS.
Before I start leveling a character, are there any addons, plater profiles, or weakauras that are practically necessary for tanking?
Rn, the big ones I have for DPS are deadly boss mods, details, and plater (quazii's profile).
Thanks y'all

[pallid quiver]

The only thing that, as a tank role, could be considered necessary is a boss mod, since you need to know when abilities you need to use a defensive for are coming in

[last ivy]

I'm just asking bc I've heard, for example, that healing is practically impossible without cells for party members

oh ok

[pallid quiver]

There's a lot of things that are extremely helpful on top of that, like the dungeon WA suites you can find, but it's not necessary necessarily

[pallid quiver]

Having adjustable raid/party frames just makes it easier to track dispels/actual heal quickly

[last ivy]

hmm yeah I use a m+ seasonal weakaura currently.

so I guess while leveling I just need to make sure I know how to keep and maintain threat then

i literally havent even made my alt yet im just preparing now bc i want to spam dungeons to level

thanks for the help

[worthy lichen]

is the cap on ignore pain the same with or without Brutal Vitality?

[strong forum]

Cap remains 30% max hp

[acoustic grotto]

Hello warriors !
I would like to resub for S3 coming soon. Didn't play much since the start of the TWW.
How the PTR feel for colossus and mountain thane ? Any hero talent tree is much better than the other one ?

[bleak breach]

Both seem good, MT probably slightly ahead

Don’t think you’ll be much worse off either way though

[acoustic grotto]

Ok cool ! Nice news. Thanks

[strong forum]

MT is significantly ahead in ST

significantly

[solar crown]

So MT for raids (?), how is it in m+?

[royal mist]

Is the crafting section here going to get updated? I think it's pre first tier. https://discordapp.com/channels/148872210742771712/1269008707103096843

[ashen kestrel]

I think MT is currently the play in M+ too for higher keys but both are viable

I think colossus might have slightly more self sustain via FBV plus buffs to the bleed damage from the tier set, but thane is doing more damage i believe, and is better for aggro on gather

[hardy snow]

is it possible we will prefer MT in raid and Colo in dungs?

[small steeple]

Possible? Yes. But from my knowledge it seems to be down to a dungeon specific thing between the 2, as far as I’m aware

[strong forum]

High likelihood if nothing changes

But yeah depends if immovable object as Colossus will smooth over encounters

Otherwise thane just shits on colossus

Royally

[modern spindle]

Hey folks haven't touched prot since late SL,I miss the sound of blocks after playing guardian and brew haha. Tried pally and I just felt paper as heck so decided to level the prot war.
What sort of ilvl is feasible for going Into coming season. Ive got brew and guardian at 684 and 3600 + but i just need a block tank again and obviously decided 1 week prior is clearly the best time to do this

[steady mason]

I have you beat by 1 week. Over the weekend I got to 650 without playing that much by buying ver gear from the delves vendor and doing all the world quests and overcharged delves

The thing I’m mostly “worried” about is having decent tier gear because I’ll probably be holding onto 2/4 piece bonus for awhile

[solid sun]

If you play with friends have them carry you through dungos

[plush tendon]

did you include the dps gain from 5% size

[shrewd grove]

Am I read MT tier correctly? We have the possibility to just chain TBlasts now?

[tulip oar]

I actually like Thane Prot better, but mostly just for theme and cosmetic reasons. Both seem pretty fun.

Except when you low roll reset proc and stuck with dead globals.

[modern spindle]

@steady mason aye i forgot you could buy champion pieces for valorstones aswell from the chap next to the key vendor. Ive got like 8k ish valor across toons so might just do that

Is dwarf looking to be the race for m+ as there is a potion for meld or akin to meld isn't there? (i wont be raiding other than for curve and trinks probs in pugs)

[plush tendon]

they added a meld potion, so Dwarf is OP.... still gonna play human though

[neon elk]

This assumes new tier also right ? At stat with s2 tier its still colo, or ?

[strong forum]

S3

Nelf is still OP cuz meld potion shares cd with combat/invis pot

[plush tendon]

Im gonna be neither

I like human

cause Im basic

Also breaking out of stuns, when applicable, is awesome

[modern spindle]

Female dwarf feels like a dps increase / ignores more pain due to nose

[plush tendon]

[lime urchin]

fat panda only true race for thunderclappers!

[plush tendon]

I do have a second warrior

My Human Warrior Bjorn and my Dwarf Warrior Bjoing

maybe I should make a third

[tulip oar]

I'm staying Night elf. Been one since the beginning, never seen a real reason to change. That and I enjoy their lore and background the most.

[plush tendon]

I love Fem Nelfs

but I like my warrior being called Bjorn

and thats a boys name

so it wouldnt make sense to be a fem nelf

[tulip oar]

That's fair.

[plush tendon]

and male nelf is fugly

so my only options are basically Human or Dwarf

maybe Blood Elf.... gonna depend on how midnight is looking

I might wanna be a Blood Elf to match the expansion vibe

[tulip oar]

Void elf is another option, depending on which racial ability you want.

[plush tendon]

I do think Void Elf

[tulip oar]

They look pretty much the same.

[plush tendon]

they dont have the same haircuts

[limpid ruin]

Join us

[tulip oar]

Sombra or tomboy
Those are my haircuts of choice. Lol in game and real world.

[plush tendon]

but Ill be a boy blood elf

I wont be as cute as you

[plush tendon]

I like the blood elf falcon haircut

obviously would go blonde as well

void elves dont have that

[urban bane]

twink + zaddy void elf is the real prot warrior choice

[plush tendon]

but its hard to not be human

having a stun break and double hearthstone is sooo nice

[solar crown]

Why is nobody a chad/plays orc?

[tulip oar]

Cause no one wants to smell like an orc, or have such horrible posture/shoulder mogs. Lol

[plush tendon]

good question.... I like orcs

but with the faction lines being blurred, alliance races are just generally seen as 'better'

[shrewd grove]

Been Tauren since vanilla. I will never change

[plush tendon]

for PVE content

Orc is kind of weak in comparison

[tulip oar]

I don't get the fascination of paying to race swap, but to each their own.

[plush tendon]

change of vibes

and not needing to make a second toon

[tulip oar]

Ok, I can see the point on the not wanting to make a fresh toon.

[plush tendon]

like I was a blood elf all of MoP, but as soon as WoD hit I wanted to be a Orc DK cause I was like 'this cinematic is awesome!'

and then I went back to being a BElf partway through because WoD was not as awesome as I hoped

[undone beacon]

Okay but consider this

Goblin

Boom

[plush tendon]

no

too short

my other quipe with orc is that I dont like how big they are when you ride a horse

I specifically ride horse mounts

[undone beacon]

Peak tank fantasy is being a tiny green terror and biting people’s shins

[plush tendon]

all other mounts are just a +1 mount counter to me

[undone beacon]

It’s more effective to shield slam their legs

Crits more often too mmhm

Short KINGS

[plush tendon]

If I was gonna be short, Im playing a female Gnome with pigtails

[undone beacon]

gross

Gnomes

Stinky

Also playing a human warrior and only riding horses is… pretty based ngl

[plush tendon]

[solid sun]

I like being a human

[plush tendon]

ok, not totally true... I did buy the lion with wings mount for flying

and I have the Tmog bear

but thats it

[undone beacon]

I will say that unless youre pushing bleeding edge content, race choice literally doesn’t matter

[solid sun]

Everytime a drill assassin on sprocket tried to get me id use my little get out of jail free card

[plush tendon]

100%

[undone beacon]

Thus, I play goblins because goblins my beloved

[plush tendon]

and orc is still really good for PVP and obviously anyone who played before the racial rework would know Orc was top dog

[solid sun]

I don’t like how armor looks on the tiny races

[plush tendon]

but I think people just prefer alliance cities also

[undone beacon]

I’m diehard horde forever

[plush tendon]

and once you didnt have to be horde, it changed things

[undone beacon]

Alliance cringe

[plush tendon]

Orgrimmar aint the same

[solid sun]

Also you aren’t a goblin. You’re a bear

[plush tendon]

with every expac having a major city hub

I love the central courtyard in Orgrimmar right outside the Warchief hut

but its soooo empty compared to what it used to be

[pallid quiver]

Emissary of Bear but has yet to convince Blizz to let gobbos be doodads

[dreamy rain]

is playing alliance a sign that you old? when i was younger i enjoyed horde... but now i like allaince more

[undone beacon]

Literally the only exception to my goblins is my bear… and it makes me so sad

I have been petitioning for years

[pallid quiver]

petitions don't work

you must instigate a violent rebellion

Lead the lost masses on a crusade of justice

[undone beacon]

But Highmountain Tauren is an acceptable stand-in for now, because the MOOSE is LOOSE

I will start throwing bricks at people until I have my way

Easy game easy life

[limpid ruin]

The bear was a investment not a purchase imo

[plush tendon]

I love that bear

[undone beacon]

Lowkey highkey though KulTirans have the best Druid forms

And it makes me jealous

[plush tendon]

yes

I remember horde was for younger players and the tryhards

and Alliance was for the boomers

[limpid ruin]

I like alliance tho….

[plush tendon]

you are old

plus alliance now is for the tryhards

[undone beacon]

Idk man when I play a fantasy game I don’t wanna be anything close to a human, I’d rather be a big cow man or a lil goblin or something fantastical

[plush tendon]

im the exact opposite

[undone beacon]

Not a human or a short human or a shorter human or a purple human

[plush tendon]

Im in a fantasy world filled with all this fantastical stuff, so I wanna be a average joe schmoe human

riding his horse

with a sword

[undone beacon]

To each their own, to each their own

[plush tendon]

also helps that pretty much all armor sets look good on human males

[undone beacon]

Part of me is ever tempted to swap to a Dracthyr for the warr but idk if I can give up my gobbo

[plush tendon]

Dracthyr annoy me

because you dont wear armor in dragon form

at least, I dont think you do

[undone beacon]

Only shoulders and belt transmogs show up, and the rest of the “armor” is applied through the barbershop

So you have armor it’s just VERY limited

But the fantasy of being an Infinite Dragonflight warrior, defending broken timelines with shield in hand, soaring on glowing wings, yes SIR

[solar crown]

Im vulpera myself.. gotta love that nose for trouble

And i like having people complain they cant see me when shit goes down

[warm plinth]

Except boomkin. That thing is tragic. They have fantastic heritage armor too.

[solid sun]

You don’t like wicker man boomie

[frosty mango]

Perhaps a bear?

speaking of bears I did a 17 top last night and thought I’d take the reaping scythe natty on the last boss with just ironfur and I learned that bears are not warriors

[undone beacon]

Ooooof yeah that’s a rough time

Just face tanking that on bear is rough, gotta rotate defensives pretty hard

[solid sun]

Pash do you play non-tank characters

[harsh trellis]

I would have thought Guardian druid would be one of the quickest tanks to pickup and play. It feels like eveything they do rotates into a self heal and defensive.

like VDH

[stiff gate]

oof, giving me ptsd flashbacks to our bear druid getting one shot by anything magic that looked at him funny last season

[frosty mango]

I had si and bark

Third one I said well I have 10 ironfur stacks and 25m health surely I’ll be ok

I was not ok

I was in fact deleted

[stiff gate]

lmao

[frosty mango]

On warrior I just spell reflect and it’s a non mechanic, was not expecting that lol

[stiff gate]

it chunks me pretty good even with SR up on 18, i wouldnt trust it with only SR personally, and bear is less tanky than even that without using a major cd

[frosty mango]

It is easy you’re just susceptible to large frequent magic hits because you really only have two DRs

[stiff gate]

bring back letting me reflect it for real

[frosty mango]

As long as the hits are more than 45s apart you’re fine

[frosty mango]

I don’t die but with just SR at 17-18 it hits me for like 14m

But war also always has a cooldown for it so it’s a nonissue

[stiff gate]

yeah

one thing that's always weird when i do higher keys on my monk is the weird lack of cds, just kinda sitting there going "hope stagger is enough to just natty live this i guess"

[frosty mango]

Yeah but it always is