protection

[jagged gust]

They were dooming pretty hard before the patch notes hit, now I'm reading "100% chance to catch nerfs"

[brittle epoch]

Why u posted this? I only read in your post „look at me, im a superhero while my poor friends cant play“ it doesnt look like a request for Log review. There was no serious request so its just a pen post. But yeah, thats only my pov on this.

[blazing ridge]

You are right, but I still got a few pointers myself. I know where you are coming from, just maybe wanted to vent a bit. Nothing too serious tbh.

[sharp merlin]

10 deaths don't exactly help

2 of them are very, very avoidable with the ghostly charge, Leaping Thrash, you don't need any help with heals on Gorechop so the healer should be hard focusing the dps

Also go Mages, after first boss, lines up super nicely with BL and you can take a huge pack towards Gorechop

You lost a lot of time with the skip attempt, I generally Pulltimer 5, and it works wonders

With the non skip of the mini boss, you also still pulled two packs on the platform, which lost you time too

[blazing ridge]

we skipped one mini boss so we need the %

[brittle epoch]

Ye came from fury section. Should explain everything

[blazing ridge]

The Proxy Strike from Streets of Wonder Gatewarden hits for 11m on a +10 fucking hurts

[dusty jetty]

can someone help me understand how tome of light's devotion works? the trinket

[vale escarp]

You can have 2 Buffs, one is crit, the other one is bad

You always wanna change to crit as soon as you got the wrong buff

[blazing ridge]

You get to the other buff by being hit.

Or using it.

Just install Weakaura like this https://wago.io/sn2UyJYzl which bascially just shows up when you need to use the trinket.

To stay on Crit mode.

[sudden lynx]

What are people gonna be playing on new season? I'm deffo sticking with colossus first and seeing how it feels (love demolish) but mighttttttt pivot to Thane if it's like obscenely better

[strong forum]

its not gonna be obscenely better

[sudden lynx]

BIG

[blazing ridge]

Just ran the pull on streets of wonder on a +2, Thane did ~300k more dps, but definitly felt weaker on the health side, but I did take BV, but I feel BV is a bit overkill.

and 35% of the dmg was just Thunder Blast like the logs earlier suggested

[strong forum]

hah

i log onto PTR and within 2minutes i find the first bug

[jagged pier]

[frigid valley]

+2 is like testing your strength vs a child

[strong forum]

yeah

[jagged pier]

what was it?

[torn gulch]

+15 is where the testing it

[frigid valley]

i did +27 streets in SL, surerly i can do higher now

[strong forum]

Currently known bugs:
Colossus:

• tierset, 2pc crit chance increase for SS doesnt get consumed and grants 100% crit chance for entire duration instead of only 1 cast

Fixed

[torn gulch]

oh damn

[strong forum]

so the bleed healing and colossus itself is VASTLY overperforming

[blazing ridge]

If true thane is way strongerr

[jagged pier]

[strong forum]

what a dmg breakdown

[blazing ridge]

yeah

Tough as Nails is 1,8% dmg

[strong forum]

yeah that sounds pretty bad

[torn gulch]

no wonder dorki was talking what he was talking about tank dps power being in hero talents for the most part
and that is a problem for threat

[strong forum]

considering what you have to give up

dmg doesnt seem higer than colossus tho

[torn gulch]

but it is comparable?

[strong forum]

roughly equal

[torn gulch]

that's good enough

i want to clap cheeks

[kind urchin]

I like being the god of thunder.

Being the hulk is fun too but there's just something so satisfying about that giant lightning blast.

[lilac basalt]

thunder clap with the glyph is my favorite ability in the game so I'm happy for thane being on par with colo as well

[cyan bronze]

is this a key overall

[strong forum]

"hey guys we wanted to nerf rage generation for prot warrior cuz we dont like how much you gotta spam IP as thane, no we dont know how much this affects the class actually"
"thane gets a tierset which gets VERY frequent resets of Thunderblast which increases rage generation at a significant pace "

[strong forum]

no just me slamming dummies

[cyan bronze]

and what r talents

ah

tank st dummy?

[strong forum]

aoe

[cyan bronze]

ah

how is TaN is large aoe, have you have seen any logs

[torn gulch]

can't even see it in ptr logs

[strong forum]

this is ST

with m+ talents

[cyan bronze]

what is volatile det

[torn gulch]

a trinket

[cyan bronze]

yes what trinket

[torn gulch]

as far as i know

[strong forum]

terror sack

[jagged pier]

its the good taz'evesh trinket

[cyan bronze]

ah ty

does quite a bit tbf

[slender bison]

We have another sac? So two sacs this season

[cyan bronze]

equal to tome is nice

[strong forum]

it probably doesnt have the tank aura nerf yet

there are 2 sacks on the vendor

[cyan bronze]

Ah

[strong forum]

1 with a 2.8mil dmg proc

1 with a 1.6mil dmg proc

no clue which one is the intended one

[frigid valley]

oh ive got it

[slender bison]

No ara kara sac?

[cyan bronze]

can you take 3t cleave execute within m+ build @strong forum

[torn gulch]

the nerf is 33% normally right? for tanks

[cyan bronze]

i forget

for thane

[strong forum]

ye would be 33% for tanks

[strong forum]

https://i.imgur.com/QjisOEI.png

could go like this

[cyan bronze]

can maybe drop a stat stick node for 3t cleave

[strong forum]

thats just suboptimal

[cyan bronze]

ya not sure

does it even sim better in 3t

[strong forum]

maybe?

[cyan bronze]

wonder if rrh sim better than instigate in st also

probably, tbh

[strong forum]

nah

no shot

instigate is hard locked

[cyan bronze]

ah

[strong forum]

but dropping EA for HH (cleave exe) as you said could maybe work

in some funny keys

[cyan bronze]

just figured rage is a bit less dmg than is for colossus, but still too much avatar cdr

[strong forum]

rage is our best stat

[cyan bronze]

ya

[strong forum]

okay its pretty satisfying

to send 1 execute in aoe

and hit for 10mil total dmg

https://i.imgur.com/rz9JWsj.png

good aoe opener

[blazing ridge]

Is the self healing way lower? Idk I feel like I am getting globbered

[strong forum]

should be like 20-25% less yes

[blazing ridge]

Not enough self healing to get myself up first pack in Streets of Wonder idk maybe skill issue

[strong forum]

lots of magic dmg

🙂

if only we had a tool to deal with that

oh wait

[torn gulch]

i'll need to stock on vaseline

[solid sun]

I mean truthfully if it’s pretty egregious I just wouldn’t play war

[lilac basalt]

but should you, on a warrior? I guess it should not be like a BDK with the self heal, but more like mitigation. which means you kind of need a healer

[strong forum]

very satisfying

[solid sun]

What are the chances they fix the bug and then rebuff the healing

Versus just fixing the bug :) :)

[strong forum]

0

[tawdry dirge]

how good /bad is MT vs coloss after last tunings

are we going to clap again or still big demo

[strong forum]

both

[fluid widget]

Also after the removal of spell block, didn’t they say they were going to monitor? How does it look for dungeons like floodgate or in raid

[neon elk]

Imho it will look horible in comparison to like 4 other tanks

[idle copper]

Coll is showing more survivability than Thane?

[jagged gust]

the real question is how did they manage to take enough damage in a +2 to feel the difference

[cerulean tusk]

No idea

[stone ice]

ok, realistic question. if you talent into the extra DR from spell reflect thats like a 30?% dr on a 2min cd, and 2 charges of shield wall, and a full IP up, how high do you need to go in key level before the mother magic tankbuster "actually" kills us or chunks us so low the next auto kills

[jagged gust]

35%

20s CD

[stone ice]

rip spellblock you will be missed but the stuff that seems to "actually" kill me, is stuff i couldnt spellblock, like bleeds getting stacked on me

[little ermine]

welcome back to HoA hell

(just like US HoA :p )

[stone ice]

i get that spell block removal sucks ass but, at least last season, it wasnt really the blockable sources of magic damage that i was actually worried about until the key level gets like north of 16. It (to me) only felt really bad to get chunked because otherwise my health bar isnt really moving much at all, thanks to how OP block is (when it works)

or would spellblock have prevented the application of debuff if the source of the hit was blocked? (iirc, it didnt, unlike parry)

[lofty warren]

Analysis on recent war tuning?

[stone ice]

i dont want to be dwarf help

they are making me play dwarf again

[slim dove]

Still unkillable to basic white hits, still terrified of bleeds and bolts

[stone ice]

i mean the only real way they ever escape that balance issue is by nerfing block, if bolts and bleeds were fine and basic hits were nothing, how would you even kill a prot warrior

which is annoying because block being kinda op is fun

[frigid valley]

fuck block, i want to be a 2handed barbarian tank who spams heroic leap and shouts at enemies/party whilst leeching life via bleeds

[autumn pawn]

I had the idea that MT would always be tankier since it generates more rage. But i guess i missed what some of the colussus talents do 😄

[little ermine]

i love dwarves in the game, all my characters are dwarves (well except classes who can't be)

[stone ice]

ok, if you are willing to negotiate on the jumping part, BOY do i have a class for you

[sharp merlin]

Pls don't force me to be dwarf :(((

[stone ice]

its giving dwarf

[sharp merlin]

ahaha

[blazing ridge]

How about you boot up the ptr and try Streets of Wonder and feel the Magic dmg from the first pull.

[blazing ridge]

Healing value was the same but FbV tops you up

[frigid valley]

i managed to live for about 2½ min with both specs in that pull on 14 alone, got bored so just layed down flat.
so his point is kinda solid that u cannot test tankiness in a +2 in any way shape or form

[blazing ridge]

Idk, on +10 outside of SW I get so much magic dmg. But well probably skill issue then i guess

And FbV heals not enough

[cyan bronze]

[frosty mango]

Yes halls of atonement sucks

[frosty mango]

“Tankiness” functionally is also a combination of group overall dps (combat time) and group stops and kicks

[violet ginkgo]

so roid is thane enthusiast, the latest change toward set bonus is giving a good improvement?

[frosty mango]

That’s why I always like to run an entire key

[harsh trellis]

PTR is up and playable at the moment?

I wanna download it and test some things out

[warm plinth]

Not to mention, some mobs are not going to be hitting you with everything every time in an actual group, while they have no choice if you're by yourself.

[frosty mango]

Feels good, dps appears to be on par with colossus in st from what I could see last night however given current tuning I think Colo still may be the play in m+

Fueled bleeds are still solid and our set bonus helping both dps and self sustain is a big leg up on Colo, plus the prio damage is better

[jagged pier]

brah

its bugged

u get the buff for way longer as its not getting consumed

[frosty mango]

For Colo?

[warm plinth]

Which buff

[jagged pier]

the colos tier set buff

[frosty mango]

You’re talking about the 4pc right?

Or the 2pc

[undone beacon]

The crit chance buff or the bleed dmg buff?

[jagged pier]

Nome was talking about it earlier

just scroll up

[frosty mango]

If you’re talking about the bleed dmg buff when I tested last night I took the tier set off and went natural

[rough egret]

its pinned

[warm plinth]

It's pinned

[jagged gust]

It's pinned.

[mint knot]

It's pinned.

[warm plinth]

He said 2pc but the crit chance is the 4pc no?

[undone beacon]

Crit chance is 2pc, bleed buff is 4pc

[blazing ridge]

Would like to run some keys on ptr but 140 ping sucks

[undone beacon]

I’m on mobile rn it doesn’t show when there’s a new pin smh bad ui/ux

[frosty mango]

I didn’t particularly care about damage I wanted to infer play feel - and given thane rage gen I thought brv may be smooth ish but raw hps numbers are just vastly lower if you consider the same amount of incoming damage

Even without the tier set

[warm plinth]

Isn't it crit DAMAGE buff for 2pc and crit CHANCE buff + bleed buff for 4pc? Or did something change that I missed?

I think somethign must've changed

[frosty mango]

So unless they nerf colossus into the ground, my prediction is

We end up either Colo for m+ or some weird situation where we swap based on dungeon

Thane for pure st in raid and maybe Colo for cleave but I’m still super unsure on this

That’s just my opinion and obviously it’s super subject to change because we got a month of tuning left

[jagged gust]

In my opinion, montreal smoked meat sandwiches are overrated

[frosty mango]

Yes but any smoked meat is better than no smoked meat

Can we get a smoked meat tier list?

[dark barn]

Can i run Raidbots for the actual content? I need to improve my mythic mugzee... I only found PTR simulator

[harsh trellis]

just make your own at home

[nocturne spindle]

Yea nomes pin doesn't make sense lol

[warm plinth]

It sounds like you just get infini

[nocturne spindle]

He either means 4pc or is wrong about something idk

[jagged gust]

Don't we have a smoked meat guy in here? Makes their own sausages and what not?

Or is that arms

[frosty mango]

As in can you sim your char for live?

[nocturne spindle]

@frosty mango did you test st and aoe? I had thane doing way more on both during my testing

[violet ginkgo]

interesting, pure ST in raid is thane? because of the execute? at least so far in the PTR or what you feel

[warm plinth]

It sounds like he means that there must be a duration on the buff that makes your next SS a guaranteed crit, and the charge doesn't get consumed. So you just get guaranteed SS crits for however long that lasts.

So that would also just have you constantly refreshing the bleed damage buff as well

[nocturne spindle]

Yea that part is the 4 piece

[warm plinth]

Yeah I think he just meant to put 4pc and put 2pc instead

because 2pc is just the increased crit damage after demolish right

and increased demolish damage*

[nocturne spindle]

Also I think we will still have the bleed buff uptime being like 80% anyway given how much natural crit we have

So it's not too much of a healing nerf when it's fixed

[grizzled nova]

Is it supposed to only be the buffed shield slam that gives you the bleed damage? The way the bonus reads any ss crit should, no?

[warm plinth]

Any SS crit gives it, but the bonus basically guarantees a buff

[jagged pier]

it is any but u get literally 14seconds of free SS crits atm

[warm plinth]

But Nome is saying it ends up being the next x shield slams (however long the guaranteed crit buff lasts) instead of just one SS

[grizzled nova]

I mean if you have an 8 second window for ss crits, the uptime should be near 100% anyway, no?

Assuming you're running crit heavy.

[warm plinth]

I'm not sure what you mean

[rough egret]

100% crit is 100% crit yeah

[nocturne spindle]

Yea you will have high uptime regardless of the bug fix since it's a decently long window

But it is less damage

[warm plinth]

The guaranteed crit on SS is granted by demolish. It's supposed to be one guaranteed crit. It's currently giving guaranteed crits for the entire duration of the guaranteed crit buff, instead of just one shield slam

[rough egret]

but.. the 100% crit should have be consumed after pressing SS

[warm plinth]

So you're basically getting guaranteed bleed buff for ~22 seconds, plus every SS during that time is a guaranteed crit

[warm plinth]

Yes, it should be

[jagged pier]

u may have a lot of SS crits but u also may not

so the buff is up for more than it should be on the PTR

thats the point

[grizzled nova]

My point was only that the buff is gonna have near 100% uptime regardless, the overperforming part of the buff is that maybe it has 98% uptime instead of 95%.

[warm plinth]

How do you figure?

[jagged pier]

brah 50% crit is gunna be hard to get how are u gunna constantly be critting SS

u get 75% from tier right now

which gives u a lot of extra ones this season

[warm plinth]

I'm not saying you won't have good uptime on the bleed, but this is literally a guaranteed 50% uptime right now on the bleed before your crit chance even comes into play.

Since 22 seconds is approximately half the cooldown of Demolish

bleed buff, not bleed, sorry

[craggy harness]

What is this heresy.

I've never regretted Schwartz''s

[solid sun]

Im so sad the tier set is bugged

[mint knot]

Self-healing from bleeds in m+ feels goated.

[solid sun]

Maybe instead of fixing the bug they’ll change the wording on the set bonus :)

[mint knot]

I honestly can't tell the difference, are the nerfs live on ptr?

[frosty mango]

I ran keys as both but I did not use the colo tier bonus when I did

[frosty mango]

Yeah because of execute plus rage gen, there’s no wierd jugg interaction now so sudden death procs are higher value

But I’m honestly still just waiting until closer to live to make up my mind

[idle copper]

How are they looking in comparison to DPS ? Thane still 30% behind?

[frigid valley]

i have far to little data to make any worthnoty assumptions, both felt fine, didnt stick out to much dmg wise.

🎱

[frosty mango]

It’s also really hard to test on ptr without a full group because every time you post a key it’s just people full sending dps and forgetting kicks and stops exist

So you don’t really get an accurate picture with real pulls

[shut summit]

there are some creatures on PTR, don't really care but ye makes it hard to pug and get a good gauge

[pallid quiver]

can't blame them

being a creature like that is probably the most enjoyable way to play the game

[shut summit]

ya i get it, doesn't really bother me but makes it harder to get clear picture like he said

have tried a couple times and is just zzz

[cyan bronze]

part of it is that transfer ui between ptr and live is less than smooth

and a lot of people rely on plater to play that part of the game for them

[slender crystal]

So how much overall dmg did thane gained and how much did demolisher lost? :c

[burnt spoke]

yo. any way to get a WA for a violent outburst proc?

and avatar is not visible inthe cooldown section of premade auras either

[frank crystal]

so we are back to just being ok again huh?

[burnt spoke]

thanks

[frosty mango]

No one really knows yet

Probs safe to say at this point “we’re not bad”

Beyond that 🤷

[frigid valley]

wait for post raid tuning, if u arent happy, wait for .5 patch. if still not happy play hellokitty

[frank crystal]

its going to be interesting to see how it feels with the lower self healing combined with losing spell block.

[frosty mango]

“Good” “bad” “ok” are all relative to the entire tuning picture across all tanks so really they could nerf us by 1000% and every other tank by 2000% and we would be objectively amazing

[modest hatch]

I have looked a bit for the way to use Ringing Ritual Mud on mythic gally. I understand I can use it to reset the Ego Checks. But what do I need to combine with it?

[nocturne spindle]

i assume you just use it with shield wall and its fully absorbed so you dont get stacks

but at this late gear levels you dont need to do anything fancy for ego stacks

[modest hatch]

aight, my thoughts. Thanks

[tardy juniper]

Is prot warrior doing solid damage after ptr buffs ?

[slim pier]

Prot has always done more than solid damage for a tank

[jagged gust]

well we're not healing the mobs

[tribal wharf]

this type of wow content is totally cooked lol

"play wow classic hc as an orc warrior, but i can only use green and purple daggers from quest rewards"

[nocturne spindle]

on personal testing thane does more damage now but we shall wait for the sims to confirm

[fervent kestrel]

Hey guys. I've been seeing a lot of warriors take Indomitable for both M+ and raid recently. I was always under the impression it wasn't very good. Have things changed on that?

[warm plinth]

It's very bad as Colossus. It's okay if you're Thane.

[fervent kestrel]

What makes it so bad for colossus specifically?

And isn't Colossus the go-to spec right now anyway?

[warm plinth]

Colossus generates significantly less rage than Thane does.

And yes, Colossus is the go-to hero tree atm.

[idle copper]

Is there anywhere I can see what builds people are using in the PTR? Ive tried looking at RaiderIO but it doesnt populate a list when i select PTR

[frosty mango]

There not really a place they’re documented

Most of us are just cooking them up as changes are made

[undone beacon]

The T in PTR stands for Test, why not test out a build of your own

Bugs me when people act like theres a meta for the test realms

Mess around with it lol

[frosty mango]

We are simple creatures

[vague abyss]

im a simple creature, i copy paste meta build, then learn later why is meta

[frosty mango]

Pash just came out of hibernation, what he really means is it’s important to test out different things so blizzard can get feedback. Otherwise they would have nothing to ignore

[frosty mango]

“Because nome said so”

[undone beacon]

Always the eloquent explanation, yes

[idle copper]

I work 60 hours a week and my time in game is limited - I generally try and use any helpful resources I can to maximise my time in game - its not beyond me to test stuff out, in this instance I just like to see whats common atm ....

[vague abyss]

talking about nome, whats the consensus of the spellbreaker talent? is even worth picking? RIP Spell Block 😢

[idle copper]

I can look up builds whilst im at work

[frosty mango]

Nome gusta spell breaker

To put it more eloquently - it’s shit

That’s technically my opinion but you’ll be hard pressed to find someone who thinks otherwise

[frosty mango]

If you quit your job this becomes a no issue

[undone beacon]

Do you want a small chance to half spell damage randomly, or a stronger spell reflect? (Or neither tbh)

[vague abyss]

ye, sad. so its a major nerf because we literally have 1 less CD then now. Ill be still playing my prot warrior, but ill be bitching about it all the season xD

[frosty mango]

Think of how many builds you can test in 60 hours

So many

[undone beacon]

That’s so real

You can test EVERY talent combination

Find the obscure meta breaking combo

My money is on Spellbreaker + Tough as Nails, somehow

[idle copper]

I can read crap online between patients, I cant play the game though

[jagged gust]

Would you be interested in buying the brooklyn bridge, perchance?

[frosty mango]

You won’t find anything probably until closer to release

[undone beacon]

Test the builds with the patients, sounds like a great time to get them into M+

[frosty mango]

Because everything changes

Frequently

[vivid orchid]

intentionally untalent devastator

[undone beacon]

This is huge, mods let’s get a build going

[frosty mango]

Don’t even joke about this

The fact devastator even still lives on the talent tree is a crime

[rough egret]

Should be baseline.

[undone beacon]

@frosty mango enjoy

new meta build

[slender bison]

You guys complaining about devastator while AM is still not baseline?

[vivid orchid]

devastator must be a nostalgia thing for blizzard or something idk

[frosty mango]

Would be better if you removed shield charge to pick up aoe execute and dropped instigate for indom

If we’re gonna flex we need to flex hard

[slender bison]

And shattering throw while at it

Looks cool

[undone beacon]

Cant drop instigate for indom with this setup

[frosty mango]

Try harder

[undone beacon]

oh okay

[frosty mango]

https://tenor.com/view/fogo-more-star-wars-gif-13624709056817377234

[jagged gust]

VO has had it's time in the sun

[tall gorge]

Should drop ignore pain.

[cyan bronze]

Goodnight

[undone beacon]

Devastator is deadastator

[frigid valley]

i miss devastate, banger animation

[cyan bronze]

Does Sabrina carpenter use devastator!

[undone beacon]

no sabrina carpenter is a DotC enjoyer

you know this trae

[cyan bronze]

SABRINA CARPENTER IS A MOUNTAIN THANE DEVASTATE ENJOYER TOO

[dark barn]

devastator being mandatory is just sad, absolutely no space to even think about a devastate build

[undone beacon]

lowkey sabrina carpenter's face freaks me out

idk what it is

she kinda scary

[cyan bronze]

that’s called being aroused.

[undone beacon]

@cyan bronze updated from bear discord

[nocturne spindle]

what

[undone beacon]

sabrina carpenter loves DotC and Mountain Thane

[mellow bridge]

could check logs

[true yoke]

with nerfs is pwarrior still good?

[solid sun]

Nope pack it up

[torn gulch]

it is just me or the active part of the reshii wraps for tanks is straight shit?

needs a significant buff

[solid sun]

Is bad

P sure the brew dude on wowhead wrote an article about it

Shinzu or something like that

[torn gulch]

i was worrying that i might need mythic boots from tha raid but if it stays like this

i won't need them

might as well wipe my ass with one more rng absorb per minute

[small steeple]

this a thane execute raid build or what?

[nocturne spindle]

the boots have good stats though

so its a might as well thing

[frosty mango]

its a meme build lol

[small steeple]

explains why i was confused with my lack of context

[undone beacon]

oh yeah its a build that gives up the entire right side of the tree by dropping devastator

[small steeple]

lol

[jagged gust]

She got the crazy eyes

[undone beacon]

crazy eyes and like, crazy botox face

[idle copper]

thank you

[jagged gust]

Tank cloak is like, a DPS loss over a S2 cloak, yeah?

[frosty mango]

Wasn’t she a Disney kid

[mellow bridge]

why would it be? it still has stats and is higher ilvl

[jagged gust]

Does it actually have stats?

last I saw it had primary and a shield

[nocturne spindle]

you do a thing and it gets stats

[frosty mango]

The gem influences the stat

[jagged gust]

ah icic, any numbers on that yet? I can see values 5600/8000 on the two tiers of gems

[sterile verge]

is there a detailed explanation anywhere on the math behind how blocking and shield block rating works? mostly just curious on what the numbers end up being for switching out a crafted shield for a regular one

[jagged gust]

yesn't

There's a pretty basic formula for how damage is mitigated, but there's an adjustable K value we aren't privy to

[mellow bridge]

we totally are

the monk disc for example has the k-values each patch

[lofty warren]

I think before tuning

This was made before most recent tuning. Where will tuning move it on list?

[dusky canopy]

Do not value tier lists highly

[mellow bridge]

here they are

[small steeple]

imagine telling Pepega to not follow tier lists

[mellow bridge]

imagine interacting with Pepega

[lofty warren]

Tier lists are truth. At least a very condensed version of truth and that's how I like it

[strong forum]

https://tenor.com/view/reaction-my-eyes-cant-unsee-burn-gif-7225082

[urban bane]

[lofty warren]

But instead of saying "ignore tier" I'm asking if most recent moves up or down and by howmuvh

[urban bane]

ask yoda

they're his thoughts!

why would skyhold or the prot channel know?

[jagged gust]

My thoughts are why tf does his tier go from S+ to B?

This tier list power scaling needs to stop

[lofty warren]

I mean. I'm just asking whether the recent changes are net buff or nerf. Like when aug got mega nerfed they came out and said "we mega dead f tier". That's what I'm asking

[jagged gust]

Soon we'll be comparing UOSSS++ to OPOPS+!

[small steeple]

just gonna say, yoda moved ppal from his "f" tier to "a" tier with literally 0 changes...

[solid sun]

Idk maybe even with buffs Yoda wouldn’t change his tier list

Only he knows how it’d move

[jagged gust]

This just in, streamer has bias

[lofty warren]

How does one move so much?

[small steeple]

yoda is a ppal and vdh main... he likes em

[undone beacon]

all my decisions are based on tier lists

[jagged gust]

All my decisions are based on whether or not I can brag to the cashier at 7-11 about them

[solid sun]

No fear, follow the tier

[lofty warren]

Ok say tier list not exist. What do the ptr changes mean for pwar? Saw bleed healing nerf and some others idk

[nocturne spindle]

we only heal 70% of our HP in a tick instead of 100%

since it was a 30% nerf

[small steeple]

mt thane probably the st raid spec, and uncertain about more targets, likely col

[nocturne spindle]

also mountain thane go brrrrrr

huge damage in AOE and ST

[small steeple]

i thought it was a 25%? from 200% to 150%?

[nocturne spindle]

more than colossus

[solid sun]

There’s also a bug and when they fix it we are super dead forever

[nocturne spindle]

+20% tierset reduction

[small steeple]

oh really? cool hadn't seen that yet

[solid sun]

You won’t believe what the tier lists are gonna show when our bug gets fixed

[small steeple]

whats this bug? haven't keep up last few days, just read the blue post

[solid sun]

Newest pin

[small steeple]

oh i see, will read

oh lmao, MT stonks will go up

[lofty warren]

So how pwar in m+ now?

[solid sun]

My current assumption is that brew will overtake pwar as the tank of choice for phys damage comp

But that doesn’t mean pwar will be bad

[lofty warren]

Ohh ok so vdh and brew good

[frigid valley]

same answer as when you asked earlier today

[lofty warren]

Uhh but disnt get answer

Need to look at brew with its 8% passive that's like huge almost 3x the 3% dh gets

[solid sun]

They all just waited for me to answer you so now you gotta find out if my answer is at all useful or correct

I’m just a rhino dude. Small brain, big horn

[lofty warren]

Brew or dh which better? Ain't got potence to play anything not s tier and not gonna alt

[dusky canopy]

Brew and war looking good

VDH is still very strong with its toolkit

[solid sun]

There’s still like a month of tuning

[lofty warren]

Brew still super dead without a hps-ing healer right?

[solid sun]

@mellow bridge are you dead?

[dusky canopy]

I don’t follow BRM a ton but I know equinox does high end keys every tier

[solid sun]

Or maybe even super dead?

[lofty warren]

Pwar gonna be real sad during hoa bleeds and priory magic damage? That's like 25% being sad

[mellow bridge]

what's up?

[nocturne spindle]

priory isnt too bad for us magic damage wise

[cerulean tusk]

[nocturne spindle]

the triple paladin pull hurts but its doable

its the bleed that fucking murders us in priory

[bleak breach]

What bug?

[mellow bridge]

pin

[torn gulch]

colossus tier set is stronger that it's supposed to be

[bleak breach]

Ahh yep

[frosty mango]

Hoa is a poop dungeon cmv

[torn gulch]

the irony is that hoa is seen as one of the best dungeons in m+ history

[frosty mango]

Yeah because kiting everything is highly engaging

Hoa was the best of the worst and imo that’s why it’s fondly remembered

[urban portal]

The dopamine was high

[frosty mango]

People are gonna step in there next tier and those glasses aren’t gonna be so rose colored anymore

Soon as those dogs start eating them

[undone beacon]

the whole dungeon is rose colored

remember the turbo spinny bug on first boss

that was peak content

[urban portal]

Who can turn on the gorgon now

In hoa

[frosty mango]

Remember the statue bug on the last boss where they flew in random directions

[urban portal]

Did they say

[frosty mango]

What do you mean

The only turning I’m doing on those is around, so I can run away because they are not nice

[burnt spoke]

do we ever try to line up offensive CD's or just use them when available?

[frosty mango]

You want to line up avatar demo shout and demolish

[urban portal]

In hoa if you are venthyr you can tame the gorgons

[frosty mango]

This isn’t always possible due to desync but it should happen reasonably often

[urban portal]

Both and it’s your judgement call

[bleak breach]

If they’re really close then yes, but generally just blow your load as you get it

[frosty mango]

I was too busy trying not to die to even see if that is an option

[undone beacon]

fucking taming beasts in m+, new meta

hunter tech

oh unless you meant the big stonefiends

[urban portal]

Yeah

The stonefiends

[dark barn]

New thane feels funny

[mild river]

So the top 3 damage are not physical 🤔

Gotta invite DH to a group to bring this up even more lol

[nocturne spindle]

its physical unless im crazy

its like "stormstrike damage"

[mighty valley]

thunderblast is 50/50

[nocturne spindle]

but it acts as physical

[mighty valley]

as i understand it

wowhead seems to believe it matters

plus the lightning strikes are pure nature

[elfin ginkgo]

I am very demotivated tonight

[mighty valley]

aren't we all

oh are you talking about world of warcraft

[elfin ginkgo]

No

[dense pewter]

RAARGH
Greetings Warriors! Can anyone explain to me why https://www.wowhead.com/item=168978/anodized-deflectors are garbage? I assume the on-use doesn't stack up to the lost secondary stats, but how do we actually know that?

[elfin ginkgo]

If it's going to be another season of vdh IM rolling arcane mage

[mighty valley]

For the damage portion, sims run the numbers. For defensive value... I dunno, you can just kinda tell that some parry and avoidance doesn't make up for real secondaries

[elfin ginkgo]

Raidbots.com

[solid sun]

Did you just pump up our AP in discy, dude?

[dense pewter]

happy with simming the damage portion - the parry and avoidance just a gut feel? I trust it's right, guess I'm just looking for a way to determine it for future items

[solid sun]

I’ve never been this powerful in discord before

[dense pewter]

absolutely, can't have my warrior tribe hitting for less

[elfin ginkgo]

Did you just change profile pic

[lofty warren]

Yea it's great if you like kiting and holding potion to skip the annoying trash after boss 1.

[mighty valley]

Avoidance doesn't prevent much damage, and the damage it does prevent isn't the kind that actually threatens tanks

[lofty warren]

Hoa = bleed bleed bleed bleed, kite kite, potion invis, wipe on trash before boss 2 and everyone leave.

[mighty valley]

Parry's alright, though you could just get crit and get parry AND damage and be happy

hoa was most fun when the skip was built into the seasonal affix

[dense pewter]

makes sense - thanks for the info!
May your attack power overwhelm your foes!
RAAAARGH

[nocturne spindle]

School Damage (Physical, Nature) (AP mod: 0.543356)
Radius: 8 yards
PVP Multiplier: 1 this is just the bonus damage from thunderblast so im pretty sure its a weird damage type that either benefits from both or picks the highest damage type like DH chaos damage does

the lightning strikes are all nature damage so there is that

[undone beacon]

i like this guy

[solid sun]

Same

He should come back more often

[mellow bridge]

Fwiw mixed dmg types count as the type that will allow them to do more damage only

Considering armor exists, stormstrike will almost always do nature damage and benefit from CB instead of MT

[small steeple]

really? does that mean that chaos damage is almost always max damage?

[mellow bridge]

Realistically nowadays (at least in pve) only physical vs magical matters

And chaos will then almost always be magical, yes

[small steeple]

neat, and true, most damage type resistance stuff is gone now days

[mellow bridge]

I say almost always but tbh idk a case where that wouldn't be true but I'm sure they exist

(and idk how it works with immunities like bop)

[mighty valley]

damn that's crazy

[undone beacon]

anyone want an elongated proboscis?

[jagged gust]

#1 Mosquito hater

[small steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/why-huh-but-why-gif-13199396

[undone beacon]

mans gotta have something to collect

but in actuality, darkfuse rep hyperspawn farm

Spent an hour in one yesterday and got 3200 market research

[frosty mango]

This man is farming market research and meanwhile my account is from vanilla beta with no breaks and I haven’t broken 20k ach points

We are opposites

[tribal wharf]

this you?

this is the only way and reason i can make any fucking sense of why you have collected 27 million bug proboscis

[undone beacon]

:3

[undone beacon]

close enough

[jagged gust]

what is the point of darkfuse rep?

sounds like something that came out of the goblin season

[tight hinge]

black trenchcoat

[jagged gust]

ah the grandmas boy mog

https://tenor.com/view/gaming-jp-matrix-android-grandmas-boy-gif-14657140526294230920

[tight hinge]

its all fun and games till i roll up in the fedora and trench

[tribal wharf]

this is the one i ordered on amazon years ago

[small steeple]

guildie of mine just finished it today

neo transmog

[tribal wharf]

turned that thing on like, 5 times, was scared of it, finally a tiny little mosquito hit it....

[jagged gust]

ooh does it come with the red stix mount too? kinda like that

[tribal wharf]

and man.... sure zap........... it sure lived up to its name for that poor little bastard

[small steeple]

not sure? maybe?

[tribal wharf]

literal nuclear bomb for just 1 mosquito

it was like some anime shit, like DBZ where they just evaporate and there is an outline where the power hit them

[undone beacon]

Black/red shredder at revered

Coat at exalted

rep is doubled rn and there are new hyperfarm spots

[torn gulch]

lol it seems your guildie finished his rep just in time

for the methods to be nerfed

[mystic vale]

Rip

Here is bonus rep to farm - no not like that

[agile elbow]

Back to farming by the water then

[buoyant sparrow]

How’s Prot looking after healing nerf?

[mystic vale]

Are the scrap farms the same or worst?

[agile elbow]

They suck.

Just farm the goblins by the water.

[mystic vale]

Righto

[bleak breach]

Question

What do rogues bring to phys comp specifically? Like why do most have one?

[sullen gust]

I think its just cos they do a lot of physical damage. Not many classes do physical damage, so its finding unique classes to avoid stacking the same class utility.

[bleak breach]

Yeah right, I thought there must’ve been some specific.
I saw people had I think it was PWar, Frost DK, Resto Shaman, Ret Pally/Havoc and Rogue

I figured you’d have either WW or MW for phys dam buff, that’s why I was curious about rogue.

[undone beacon]

thats kinda odd for phys comp ngl

[bleak breach]

Which part is odd?

[undone beacon]

Other than rogue and pwar theres not really much phys going on

Theres melee synergy with shaman, and havoc + frost is synergistic too. Battle shout is good for the group

[bleak breach]

The havoc/pal was swapped in since cases for Feral I think

Can’t completely remember off top of my head

[undone beacon]

Yeah Feral tends to be included in phys comp, big damage and mark + brez

[bleak breach]

Depending on state of WW you’d think it would be somewhere along the lines of PWar, Resto sham, WW, Feral and I guess rogue or plus 1?

I guess you’d interhcange PWar for brew and ww for arms

[small steeple]

fuck yeah! we took a 1 week hiatus and then 3 shot the fucker

[warm plinth]

way to go

[mighty valley]

Monk buff doesn’t do a lot unless the actual phys damage specs are good, it’s not doing that much for fdk/ret

Rogue has shroud and tricks, which ain’t nothin

But they’re mostly at the mercy of tuning

[bleak breach]

Ahh yep fair

Thought there might’ve been more of a reason to see rogues there’s consistently

[mortal cypress]

What about hunter?

[mighty valley]

that's one of the actual phys damage specs i mentioned in my post

notably not mentioned in sokraxx's theoretical comp

[mortal cypress]

Oh, didn't go up that far, sorry

[mighty valley]

lmao all good

but yeah if pwarr/outlaw/mm/ww were all busted then hell yeah

fuck them casters

[left escarp]

In Mythic Lockenstoc PartyPack taunt swap... can you taunt (if you are NOT TAKING) during cast and not steal PartyPack?

[austere ginkgo]

I already have 649 boots, though they're Champion.
Turbo-Drain just seems niche for AoE situations.
I also have 649 set legs, Champion instead of Hero.
So I guess the question is if the Pacemaker is attractive versus 649 Energy Drink or Eye of Kezan?

[agile elbow]

At this point in the season, just take whatever. No point in trying to min max.

[austere ginkgo]

Trying to crawl as much as I can for Underpin ??

[mighty valley]

I'd sim pacemaker vs. those other trinkets to see if it's worth it

You don't really wanna burn all your valorstones on upgrades if you're gonna play next season

Since they roll over now

[austere ginkgo]

How do you sim an item you don't have?

[urban portal]

this sounds like a melee magic comp

And rogue because he’s chilling

[mighty valley]

do you have simulationcraft installed?

[austere ginkgo]

Yeah

[mighty valley]

Once you've opened your vault, if you copy the string, your vault options will show up when you paste it onto the site

You can also add arbitrary items but if it's in your vault it's easy

[austere ginkgo]

Got it, ty

[round cliff]

ughhhhhhhh

[fervent kestrel]

Hey guys, I'm struggling and I don't know why. Reclearing Heroic with my guild, swapped from Bear to Warrior. Tanking Mug'zee. For some reason, I'm never able to get enough movement to clear the Molten Gold Knuckles

Any tips? I'm leaping max range and continuing to run but it keeps getting me

[left escarp]

idk why you're leaping at all; get knocked into wall and just run along the wall until it's out

[fervent kestrel]

I did that and it's getting me at 3-4 stacks left

It's throwing me off because I could just walk it off before, but for some reason, now it's not clearing fast enough

[left escarp]

my only guess would be you're directionally moving a bit into the wall and it's slowing you down.

otherwise no clue mate.

[fervent kestrel]

It's really weird because even with leap it's not clearing fast enough

[bleak breach]

leap basically in place and run

speed boost will clear it easy

[frosty mango]

well I did mug/gally completely blind and I didnt wipe the raid

i didnt scuff anything we're gonna call this a win

[frosty mango]

by getting you do you mean dying?

get knocked into the wall, leap short for speed buff and then just run

i dont understand how you could die

[jagged gust]

hes getting goldberg'd

[solid sun]

Retirement speech cut short?

That’s not nice

[jagged gust]

oh shit yeah he just retired didnt he

[fervent kestrel]

@frosty mango @bleak breach I was doing a full-range leap. Does that not reduce stacks?

[frosty mango]

i dont know but if you do a full range leap youre just gonna leap out of range of healers and die

the stack reduces on movement

[fervent kestrel]

I wasn't dying, I was getting turned to gold

[frosty mango]

ive not ever had an issue getting it kited off and I usually just short leap and run

[jagged gust]

Ive seen logs where leap reduced stacks rapidly, personally I didn't notice them falling off until I landed

[bleak breach]

i haven't noticed them until i land either

[jagged gust]

definitely need to leap for the movespeed though, that boss bricked me the first couple times without it

I assume you're running bounding stride, do you also have the run speed gem? Could be something as small as 9% run speed making the difference

[tidal scarab]

how are you guys handling 1500lb dud bomb on M gally

[frigid valley]

its easy.

let your prot pala do it

[restive oak]

yeah, you get checked, he blows duds, win win

[tidal scarab]

Ah it's just mugzee again

[bleak breach]

Let anyone that’s not the Prot warrior do it basically

[jagged pier]

what>

prot warriors do it all the time

its really easy

your basically unkillable so its great for u to have it as u just stand still on the boss until u need to dump

[rough egret]

0 verse! 😄
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5kJZv7B8J7emJoFA9KofQw

[idle copper]

Ive probably missed it in the notes but do we get to have both challenging shout and disrupting shout in 11.2?

[jagged pier]

no

u get challengeing and u can take the talent to make disrupting if u want

[lilac basalt]

ah so challenging will be a baseline ability?

[jagged pier]

it is already pretty much

[idle copper]

Its just a tooltip thing , the current talent tree states you lose it, the PTR talent tree doesnt make the distinction

[jagged pier]

i guess we do loose it then

[lilac basalt]

well true. but it's nice to have it for free 😄

[jagged pier]

u ither have it or u dont

[idle copper]

another stupid question sorry - on multiple targets where i will be rage capped but dont need the IP is it a DPS loss to use revenge to dump rage rather than use SS and subsequently overcap?

[jagged pier]

u use IP too dumb if u dont want to overcap and u have a SS ready

its doesnt matter if u over cap IP

[mellow bridge]

Just rotate your stuff, I do the first 3 bomb sets

SW and SR are always up, 1+3 you can spellblock also

Without spellblock you might need a bit of help but it's fine too

[buoyant sparrow]

How big was the buff to MT for next season? Would I play that in raid?

(I mainly did Col in all content)

[frigid valley]

Enough to play both, TBD on what will be best in each scenario

[buoyant sparrow]

And how bad was the healing nerf? We still good yeah?

[frigid valley]

its still higher than on live so, take it as u wish

[jagged pier]

yoda knocked us down from S to B tier

did also move pala from like c to a when they are recieved no tuning

[frigid valley]

https://tenor.com/view/scarecrow-people-talking-gif-13457990

[cyan bronze]

I just don’t think people were testing ppal much

They were doing way too much dmg prenerf

[lilac basalt]

that't it then. if yoda says so, rip
(/s)

[stuck coral]

Hello i have a question about best craft choice forc 11.2 whats the best if my guild lf to aim mythic mode in first week

[rough egret]

shield

[wicked jungle]

hehe, Yoda said nope so dooming begins

[stuck coral]

Why craft shield if second boss drop 1 ?

[rough egret]

you have 100% chance to get it? 🙂

[jagged pier]

nothing u dont craft first few weeks if u go into mythicearly

its just pointless

if anything u just craft emblishments because that wont ever get replaced

[stuck coral]

Hmm ok thanks

[jagged pier]

you'll replace a crafted shield or wep or any other piece in the long run pretty much

[wicked jungle]

and, of all seasons, this one's the one where you're mostly locked with the gear choices

you don't want feet craft and back craft, so there are few options left

[stuck coral]

Maybe wrists, neck or offtier 5th part

[wicked jungle]

I'd say wrist/neck or wrist/ring but it really depends. I haven't checked all the options

[stuck coral]

I guess we keep the jastor since we loot myth ring?

So in ring we keep jastor + cloak boosted rings

[wicked jungle]

when you say "cloak boosted rings" you mean the 50% cosmic dmg reduction?

[stuck coral]

Yeah

I have this gear actually I will remote the cloak later + boots

[wicked jungle]

Because I see niche uses for a tank for that (effect only, the fact that it has good stats is a plus), let alone the fact that you kinda have to get it

[stone ice]

also re: S to B tier, the bleeds in HoA might get a rebalance touch, and if they dont, they will get one early in the season, and until you do the highest keys were warrior just cant live, the tank being alive and pumping big damage is still valuable. I think unless you plan to go to title range keys, your tank spec pumping damage should be more relevant to you than top end survival

also on the pulls where currently warrior is kinda getting trucked, there isnt that much aoe damage going out, if your hearler isnt too proud to pump the tank for a bit, it should be fine

[blazing ridge]

Still trying this Streets of Wonder +14 first pull, can't figure out how to tank this effortlessly for 2:30 mins, but I love the challenge though.

[cerulean tusk]

HoA can be done as we did it in the past

Ya simply kite 🪁

[blazing ridge]

Kiteseason

[stone ice]

yeah, this is a byproduct of block being so OP that all the ways to kill a tank that are specifically designed to kill a tank feel SUDDENLY really bad but we got heroic leap and big damage it will be "fine"

and, you can still be a dwarf worst case

the tank tier lists should really be split into two tiers of "which tank can survive and control pulls one key level higher than the rest, thats the best tank, cough cough vdh", and then one tier list for "which tank makes your run the smoothest 2 keylevels or more below the tippy top keys"

[cerulean tusk]

So you want a tier list tier list

[stone ice]

tank just happens to have 2 seperate things it does. not die, and the rest, and the not die stuff becomes relevant very sharply very suddenly. if you ever played bdk you know that it feels amazing until very suddenly it doesnt.

and yoda tends to grade for the stuff he does, which is title range keys, which heavily favors the "not"die aspect, which undersells warrior in most other keys. there is still a lot of keylevels inbetween "weekly 12s" and "title keys" where warrior will feel pretty great (at least current balancing)

[solid sun]

Doesn’t every role have separate things it does?

Dps does damage and also other stuff

[stone ice]

with tank its much more important

[solid sun]

Is it?

[stone ice]

the death stuff

[solid sun]

If everyone isn’t doing all the stuff keys get bricked

It’s a team effort, not just a tanking showcase

[stone ice]

sure, but if the tank cant live the pulls, thats a pretty hard binary pass fail

[solid sun]

And if the dps don’t do damage the timer isn’t met

And if the healer can’t heal the group everyone dies

Etc etc

[stone ice]

sure, but dps damage is tuned much more closer and evenly than tank survivability

[solid sun]

Is it?

[stone ice]

it is! especially in the case of warrior

[solid sun]

I think every tank is essentially surviving everything except the top keys

Bdk requires a bit more skill to accomplish that

[stone ice]

yeah, thats my point, and in the top keys, only vdh really reliably lives, and that one brew goat doing diffrent pulls i guess. Every key level where all the tanks can live, the stuff that ISNT raw durability vs every kind of damage is more important, so, the warrior B tier is uncharitable, as we still do big damage and have great control

my point if that yoda weighs his rankings towards the tippy top keys where "only these tanks can live reliably" is a real factor

[cerulean tusk]

B is in theory really good and strong

[solid sun]

You do know that one of our most favorite things to post is vdh gifs where they just explode right

I’m pretty sure bears have to actively try to die. Their survivability is not the reason they aren’t in top keys

[cerulean tusk]

Except for when they are

[stone ice]

well, vdh does infrequent ridiciously big pulls really well, which is what the magic comp plays

that brewmaster group plays way more mid sized pulls back to back

[cerulean tusk]

I love bringing BDK in a target capped Phy comp. Tell him that he can do half the pull, then chain in things as they die.

Pull timer, he pulls all of it, AoE CC, sync white swings, doesn't stagger move, dies.

Ppl are stupid

[stone ice]

i get why they did it but its a bit of a shame they reduced healer damage so much which as collateral devalues bdks a bit since not having to heal the tank is less valuable these days

[solid sun]

I’m pretty sure the brewmaster group plays a target capped comp doesn’t it

[stone ice]

it does, they pull pretty diffrently and it works just fine

[solid sun]

Which would speak to the squad as a whole, not just brewmaster

[stone ice]

in fact, watching their stream, it seems much easier to set up as it doesnt involve invis skipping around the key to pull 5 packs from 4 seperate corners of the key into the vdh.

[solid sun]

It just seems that how you’re describing this stuff puts it all on the tank itself. Not really the entire team

[stone ice]

yeah basically their time spend actually in combat is much higher, from when i last watched them, they are basically always moving and are in combat with roughly as many things as they can cleave

[stone ice]

i was trying to guess at how yoda arrived at his B tier ranking and what would make sense to me is if he essentially graded tanks on their ability to do vdh castercomp MDI style pulls of 1bazillion mobs every 2-3 minutes or so

[solid sun]

What makes more sense to me is that Yoda is kind of a doofus

[lilac basalt]

I guess he just went into a +15 alone, tried to solo a part of it, then with the "nerfed" self-heal warrior went down to B

[raven kernel]

maybe watch his video

[solid sun]

I def am not super high on how pwar is gonna feel this upcoming season, but I’m also not going to test the tanks by going into 15s solo and do stuff that isn’t going to happen

[rapid wyvern]

Yoda's video yesterday had us at A tier, not sure where B came in? Stream?

[cerulean tusk]

What makes sense to me is that Yoda is farming clicks

[frigid valley]

No onlyfans, no opinion

[agile elbow]

Tierlists lol

[tribal wharf]

video exporting more than an hour of footage is cpu torture.

change my mind

you cant

cuz i had a project going for 18 hours ish and im still not certain its complete, or at least right lol

[agile elbow]

Just buy a macbook that's all they're good for anyway

[frosty mango]

Or a better drive

Source and target drive speeds will be huge on video file performance

Warrior will be fine for 99.9% of people

For the few at the bleeding edge, vdh is just gonna be better (probably) because it has a much better control skillset that aligns with meta dps.

If meta dps shifts heavily towards phys or a dual meta mindset, we might see warriors (or brews)

This is all literally true right now so we can all stop dooming and be happy

Also give me spell block back thanks

[lime urchin]

Spell block is mega boring in its current state, it would be more fun if it would be incorporated better into spell reflect or smt

[frosty mango]

Well spell block is non existent in its new state so I’ll take the boring one please

[wicked jungle]

Well instead of having a chance of blocking we reduce by 35% every 20s, I prefer that ngl

[undone beacon]

Dooming is all we have roid you know this

We exist to doom

[solid sun]

Is fiber actually clear cut better than cable? Or does it kinda depend on the provider?

[solid sun]

Idk I don’t know that I entirely believe this. This tier spell block was a pretty big tool in our bag to survive stuff. Idk how next season compares to this one in terms of what tools we need or how useful spell block would be if it did exist, but even someone like me benefited heavily from having it

At least as far as keys go

I don’t think there will be any issues in raid and even if there were those can be planned around pretty easily

[lilac basalt]

I still think they should have added a marker to the castbar when it is blockable or reflectable spell.
that way you wouldn't need the spreadsheet but it would involve player skill to react, etc.
and yes, I know it's more work for them

[shut summit]

they also said it's because of the power level of it when it did work, which is more understandable and what they should have said from the beginning

[frosty mango]

I’d be willing to be the majority of warriors didn’t use spell block at all, and many of those that did, didn’t use it properly

[wicked jungle]

This

[frosty mango]

IMO It will absolutely have a big impact on early push keys and high keys

[lilac basalt]

tbh I'm a shitty 2500 player but even I used it

[frosty mango]

But for Joe random running 10s I think it won’t really be a major issue to overcome

[solid sun]

Yeah but selfishly idc about them

I care about me

[frosty mango]

lol fair and real

[wicked jungle]

I'm still an advocate for the certainty of lowering damage intake rather than a chance of blocking part of it for a limited time

[tribal wharf]

its going to be crazy once we get to the point where we cant export 4k video in near real time

at this point in time literally need to build a slave pc whos job basically is only that, so it doesnt kill gaming rig

[grizzled nova]

boring opposed to what other defensive that you press and it turns on?

The point isn't to make it rotationally interesting, it's to survive magic damage tf

[wicked jungle]

[pallid quiver]

I feel like both were issues with the button as a whole, since it's more burden that the already trying to remember what's magical and not, but the sheer strength of spell block really was an objective problem.

especially since i don't think they ever did cap how hard you could block, so you could literally immune some things with a lucky crit block that were spell blockable

I'm pretty sure Nome has either a screenshot or a video in this specific chat that shows him taking literally like 200 damage or something from Odyn's massive murder AOE that you're supposed to run out of when Halls of Valor came back

[wicked jungle]

"remember".. It's more like you kinda end up knowing when you have magic damage instances and when you don't, not like you have to remember which mob exactly does it in a specific circumstance, because it's more likely that it will occur more than once in that activity you're running

[pallid quiver]

Its removal probably would have been received better if they just stated the power of spell block from the start.

you'd obviously still have people screaming on wowhead, but the people screaming there wouldn't stop until logging into the game one shots every mob and player in the game

and even then, you'd still have someone screaming that's too difficult/unfair

[small steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/hard-michaelcera-gif-4652698

[solid sun]

The complexity/difficulty talking point was stupid just for the fact that they kept spell reflect in imo

If they think it’s too powerful or if it objectively is too powerful that’s fine, remove it, but don’t replace it with some hilariously unusable rng defensive talent

It makes it look like they have no idea what they’re doing, and I never wanna be the guy who claims the devs don’t know what they’re doing

[wicked jungle]

You're talking about the 8% chance to reduce the damage, right?

[solid sun]

Yeah

[wicked jungle]

That's why I'm still convinced that the other choice node is miles ahead

[solid sun]

It is

[grizzled nova]

they don't know what they're doing half the time

[wicked jungle]

Even better than Spell Block as is, imho

[tribal wharf]

the relationship i have had with my pc last like month or year or so

[wicked jungle]

I'm kinda new with pwarr so I can't say for sure, but I seriously doubt you can get onetapped with a random magic cast or anything like that

So, if anything, pressing reflect to get the passive magic res is already better than gambling the potential block (which would eventually block around the same amount of damage in terms of %)

Instead, you have magic dr up every 20 seconds potentially

[solid sun]

We had spell reflect with a magic dr component attached to it with spell block as an additional answer

My concern is that now it’ll just be better spell reflect.

In addition to the other tools we still have (wall, demo shout plus ignore pain stacking plus last stand, etc)

[wicked jungle]

How's that a concern?

[solid sun]

We are losing one of the options we had

[wicked jungle]

If it's a "better" spell reflect, which consolidates two decent spells in a good one

What's the loss?

[solid sun]

It doesn’t

You go from having both spell reflect and spell block to just having spell reflect

[wicked jungle]

Yes, but you get an additional 10% to Spell Reflect on a very short CD

[undone beacon]

This is why I never took spell block and took tough as nails instead so I will be unaffected, easy game

[solid sun]

It doesn’t matter

You never used spell reflect and spell block at the same time

[wicked jungle]

And again, you lose one of the options, but when the options makes the difference between alive or dead, then there's a downside - this doesn't seem to be the case at all

[solid sun]

Not having something up can definitely get you killed

[wicked jungle]

"something" =/= Spell Block

[solid sun]

But it can be

[wicked jungle]

Could, yes

You could also need Last Stand very bad because of the raw damage intake which is higher than your HP

[solid sun]

If you don’t have wall anymore and the magic hits come faster then spell reflect’s cd you’re cooked

[wicked jungle]

By no means necessary, but it's a scenario

[solid sun]

Spell block answered that by having a long duration

[wicked jungle]

If my grandpa was born with 7 balls, his name would've been Pinball

[solid sun]

But those scenarios already exist this season lmfao

[wicked jungle]

Yes but it's not like they removed Spell Block and did nothing to mitigate the impact

That's all I'm saying

[solid sun]

I disagree

We already had spell reflect

I don’t need a bolstered spell reflect to make up for the departure of spell block

[wicked jungle]

Will they miss the mark? Yes

[tribal wharf]

what about mass reflect

that was fun

i know for fact that was a thing

[undone beacon]

Wasn’t that a PvP talent

Or am I tripping

[tribal wharf]

before bfa im pretty sure it was in the game

not as pvp

cuz i remember it happening in some raid

[wicked jungle]

also

[solid sun]

I’m not looking for the same power level

[wicked jungle]

It's reasonable, Spell Block is/was too strong for the current toolkit and it shows that they're looking into trying to make things more "fair"

[solid sun]

I’m looking for another option

Spell reflect alone isn’t enough imo. It doesn’t last long enough

[wicked jungle]

It doesn't with the current status of things

[solid sun]

I want an additional button in place of spell block

[wicked jungle]

Or if you pull 10 mobs in

[wicked jungle]

Nothing will make up for it

Like, nothing that they could implement would please anyone

[small steeple]

Ignorepain would like to know your location

/j

[solid sun]

I don’t need a one to one replacement

I want an additional answer.

[wicked jungle]

Ok you don't want a 1:1 replacement, you get less magic attacks so you don't need the button in the first place

[small steeple]

Rhino, at least we aren't Blood DK rn

they are just here to suffer

[wicked jungle]

(and again, I don't believe they're gonna handle this well, I'm just trying to look at it from an objective pov)

[wicked jungle]

Hey!

[solid sun]

If you don’t think they’re going to handle it well idk why you’re bringing it up

[wicked jungle]

I'm still sad I won't get to play my main for the second tier in a row :c

[small steeple]

even gemini doesn't think blood dk exists lmao

[wicked jungle]

I don't think that because I've been a player long enough to know that they try to fix something whilst breaking something else in exchange

[undone beacon]

Suffering fits because their whole lore existence is pain. It’s called immersion sweaty look it up

[wicked jungle]

But that doesn't make me less of a critical thinker

[undone beacon]

pfft

[small steeple]

I thought that was uhhh

demon hunter with you know, fury used to be called pain...

[solid sun]

I am thinking critically about it

[wicked jungle]

screw AI, taking our yobs

[solid sun]

I think the dungeons are going to be very painful and I think how they have handled this is dreadful in just about every way and it gives me less than little hope that it will feel good

[undone beacon]

They have a hero talent called something like “set fire to the pain” or some dumb shit, but DKs were the original edgelords

[small steeple]

average dh player

[wicked jungle]

Rhino, you do make a good point, what I'm saying is that as long as we don't have data backing up the fact that the current toolkit puts the class at a clear and notable disadvantage because of the absence of a response to magic hits (which is not Spell Block, because they removed it in the first place because it was busted), this whole discussion is all feelycraft

[wicked jungle]

outfit is sick tho

[small steeple]

yeah

my guildie was laughing his ass off that he finished the rep grind like an hour before it was hotfixed out

[wicked jungle]

True that, DKs are kinda edgy but it's the good edge, DHs are demons literally

[tribal wharf]

clubbedtodeath.mp3

[wicked jungle]

I'm really looking forward to S3 btw. S2 was a training ground for me towards multiclassing (moved from BDK to Prot Paladin), now I also have Prot Warrior in my pool

Even without Spell Block, I'm excited about getting to know this class better

[undone beacon]

I did a hyperspawn farm Monday night while everyone was prepping for the bonus rep, so glad I did. Honestly I shoulda farmed more for paragon boxes but the mount is ugly anyways

[solid sun]

I’ve been playing in the sand

[undone beacon]

Hell yeah brother, be a big versatile tank guy

I’m sad bear is in… a state

[solid sun]

We should all just play brew

[wicked jungle]

That's the only A bear is gonna see

[small steeple]

i got a friend whos really looking into Dotc next season for m+, apparently he's been catweaving even in like 15s on ptr

[wicked jungle]

This

My secret hope is that the play will be Brew/BDK

[solid sun]

Playing bear like you have Kezan sounds dreadful

Death Star laser canon bear is best bear

Except in raid

[wicked jungle]

I would freeze if I had to play Guardian, ngl

[grizzled nova]

Is there any reason to not take whirling blade? 150% more rage than base ravager seems like too much to pass up no?

[frosty mango]

Oh we definitely know it is a clear and noticeable disadvantage

[jagged pier]

no its a must have

[jagged gust]

Whirling blades is like, a 60% increase in ravager uptime?

[grizzled nova]

Like that seems wildly overtuned, why would you ever take 8 seconds of ravager per minute vs 20 second.

[frosty mango]

My argument is just that for most players it won’t matter because the content will be scaled low enough that they won’t outright die. Vs like a week one +15

[jagged pier]

fun fact right now if u get enough haste whieling blades will get an extra tick

[jagged gust]

Odium my beloved

Make my blades turn

[stuck scaffold]

How much more haste for another tick?

[jagged pier]

at least 7

[stuck scaffold]

Also how many ticks does it do normally

[nocturne spindle]

I'm just gonna get 40k haste for 100% SB uptime anyway

[lilac widget]

What keys do you guys use bombsuit over tome for?

[small steeple]

imma go for 100k mastery so i dont ever need to cast sb for 100% block chance

[undone beacon]

DotC sweep Inc

Gonna be hype

Big ravagers in chat

I remember when Ravage was called Massive Attack lmfao

[tribal wharf]

brew master monk rising

[small steeple]

well atleast gpt knows it exists

[tribal wharf]

how accurate is that or not

[wicked jungle]

I'm still hurt

[tribal wharf]

that whole thing

im like, 90% out of the loop with wow now

[small steeple]

"blood dk has solid self healing"

bitch thats its whole thing

lmao

[small steeple]

will say, it kinda gota druid wrong. it has some pretty good self healing with EC from all the arcane damage leech

[tribal wharf]

i think its still the wrong choice but i always took the 40% overall desperate prayer for bear

[small steeple]

just saw this lmao

[tribal wharf]

hit a button and most of my life life points return and there is no major down side to it besides CD

[small steeple]

"struggles with interrupts"

prot paladin...

struggles with interrupts lmao

[tribal wharf]

Protection Paladin (C) – Struggles with self-sustain and interrupts compared to top-tier tanks can you elaborate

ChatGPT said:
Absolutely! Here’s why Protection Paladin is considered lower tier (C) for Mythic+ in patch 11.2:
Self-Sustain: Prot Paladin relies mostly on Word of Glory and Light of the Protector for healing, which are weaker and less consistent compared to the strong self-healing of Prot Warrior’s Fueled by Violence or Blood DK’s Death Strike. This means Prot Paladins often need more healer attention, especially during big pulls or heavy damage.
Interrupts: Paladins have only one interrupt—Rebuke—which has a relatively long cooldown and can’t be used frequently in big packs. In contrast, Protection Warriors have Pummel and Shield Bash (with talents), and Vengeance DH has Consume Magic and Disrupt, giving those tanks more frequent and versatile interrupt options, critical for Mythic+.
Mobility: Prot Paladins are less mobile compared to Vengeance DH or Brewmaster Monk. This can make positioning and avoiding mechanics more difficult in fast, high-level Mythic+ runs.
Damage: Their damage output is lower than Prot Warrior or Vengeance DH, which means less threat and slower clear speed, important factors in timed Mythic+ runs.

In short: Prot Paladin tanks can tank Mythic+, but they struggle with healing self-sufficiency and interrupt frequency, which makes them less favored in the current fast-paced, heavy-damage Mythic+ meta.

[small steeple]

lmao

[tribal wharf]

well, it says im out of 4.0 creds

so thats likely why it says shield bash

[grizzled nova]

prot paladin struggles with interrupt frequency?

[tribal wharf]

i asked gpt the same qusetion someone asked google AI

i have a love hate with gpt, like yugioh, warcraft, certain FPS games (currently wolfenstein the new order fuck that game fuck the robots, i hate those god damn robots so much)

[small steeple]

gotta love chatgpt

[undone beacon]

I’ll never forget the guy who came into bear discord and told us he picked his trinkets by asking chatgpt

[small steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/champoy-el-risitas-kek-issou-etu-gif-17837830

only thing I use LLM like chatgpt for is double checking my code for syntax errors

[tribal wharf]

this part of the game

i made it to here

where you have to do a bunch of bullshit stealth kills

then you hit the button and it summons 2 elites, 2 robots and a fuck ton of other stuff

and i was losing my mind trying to beat this section, soo... its been like 2 or 3 weeks since i touched the game after

[nocturne spindle]

Google AI actually correct about all our trinkets

That's kinda funny though

[tribal wharf]

gpt claims we want ISP with either tomes light ara sac or chromebustable

also house of cards and eye of kezan

[harsh marlin]

how bad is the new spellbreaker talent?

[jagged pier]

terrible

[small steeple]

non-existent

[nocturne spindle]

take the 4% magic damage reduction talent at the start of tree instead

[jagged gust]

4% DR sounds like a trap

[urban portal]

Eh

Top of tree is usually bad

[harsh marlin]

just give us spellblock when we use shield block, that is not hard

lol

[jagged gust]

Or

[urban portal]

I wonder how hard warrior would have to be needed

[jagged gust]

Remove prot pallys spell block

[harsh marlin]

reroll as a DH

😄

[urban portal]

Nerfed

If spell block is 100% uptime

[jagged gust]

They would be far more incentivized to address magic damage if pallies started complaining about it

[rough egret]

I would say Priory and Flood, for Momma and Dailcry mainly

[waxen frigate]

Sounds like TehBear activities

[nocturne spindle]

im ready for the return to zappy boi

[cyan bronze]

But were you the rank 2 normal nerubar palace silken court elunes chosen parse with raze talented

[small steeple]

that looks pretty cool

[patent scroll]

This makes complete sense, the contexts are close enough that it doesn't really know that the hallucination isn't true

Maybe if you specify a season it might get the answer correct?

[tribal wharf]

my stance on ai hasnt changed likely never will

i dont like it, i dont dislike it

its a tool, to be used to fill in for a job

[patent scroll]

Yeah, it's kinda not there yet, not sure it can ever get there with how it's currently being done, we'll see in some years I guess

[frosty mango]

We could absolutely do it