Get wowhead one with Disrupt Shout, Best served Cold and switch Rally Cry to Honed Reflex and you're done
#protection
slender bison
Don't pick Intimidate Shout, it's a meme. Get Quick footwork. Switch Indomitable to BsV when in trouble (Dailcry/BigMomma)
errant wagon
Continuing my dooming of trying to clear a +18 priory...
A question popped into my head, is there a good reason no one ever routes to the RIGHT staircase in priory?
Leaving Taener (firestorm + Cinderblast) as the miniboss within captain dailcry fight would be significantly less damage on the tank / team as a whole. Is routing to the right really that much more inefficient?
strong forum
the miniboss is illegal
it requires your group to be absolutely on point with interrupts during the boss
if you get a shitty overlap its GG
insta wipe
errant wagon
that overlap being someone getting mauled during a firestorm I take it?
strong forum
yea
errant wagon
cus cinderblast you can just spell reflect, and it's just kick rotation otherwise
but yeah I can see that overlap being awful lol
strong forum
like if you get that its literally gg go next
no point risking it
for the sake of POTENTIAL easier boss
except your dps have to move perma
and have to be on point with kicks
1 mistake and its over
vs
yeah okay just heal tank 
errant wagon
yeah okay just heal tank
I wish this part was easier 😭
strong forum
it will be next season
shut summit
it's just straight up slower to go right as well, too many sharpshooters
strong forum
massively
errant wagon
It's 50/50 if I get through that fight or not I gotta like have a heart to heart with my healer beforehand
errant wagon
I got to the end boss last night on an 18 attempt and someone forgot to turn on last boss and wiped key. Was heartbroken
errant wagon
and that boss will get taken out back next season
I can't wait
errant wagon
it will be next season
Did you experiment on the PTR for that fight already?
errant wagon
😂
sharp gale
finally i got gally shield
round cliff
kicked off tank next season after all because i don't do enough keys
"enough keys" being 10 guild groups a week even if im already geared
feels yikes man
solid sun
Do both tanks “need” to do 10 guild groups
round cliff
Do both tanks “need” to do 10 guild groups
both tanks, 10 a week for the first 8 weeks
we're 4/8m btw
solid sun
Better than me!
round cliff
ig im just a salty bitch tho
ill just brain off dps next season with 0 expectations of me
ill still do good
solid sun
Would be easy for me because I like doing keys, but I get why that would be frustrating for those who don’t enjoy them
round cliff
ppl act like i dont enjoy keys
more like i enjoy doing other things too and don't wanna pointlessly grind keys past my crest cap
solid sun
You could do two keys a day for five days with two days free of any keys at all and meet that requirement
round cliff
i could also do 15% of the work as dps and not get shit for it at all
feels like im just being punished for guildies not pugging
solid sun
Maybe they feel like you aren’t a team player because you can sign up as a tank and immediately get invited but their dps sit in the group finder for an hour
Perspective
round cliff
the few dps i chat with just said yikes when i explained what's up
idk. they generally thought i was fine
now i just have to show them up in their own spot next season
solid sun
Did they give you the option of increasing how many keys you do
Or did they just say nah homie you’re a sword icon now
round cliff
p much the latter
solid sun
Cause if they didn’t give you the choice that’s cringe
round cliff
there's a guy who wants to tank who plays the game religiously
so raid lead was just like that's our guy
solid sun
Yeah that’s lame
jade hazel
"enough keys" being 10 guild groups a week even if im already geared
Some guilds make up the dumbest shit
When I say some I mean most, jfc that’s so stupid
round cliff
When I say some I mean most, jfc that’s so stupid
the reasoning was that he doesn't expect our guildies to go out of their way to pug so he's making tanks pick up the slack
which is like. a reason that i understand, knowing who i raid with
doesn't matter if i agree with it ig
frosty mango
which is like. a reason that i understand, knowing who i raid with
Tbh I spent 2 entire seasons trying to set up key runs for raiders and the people who need them are never the people who show up
If I ask in guild who wants in on a key and no one responds sorry bout your luck lol
heavy sparrow
Tank tips on Rookery? Not my stream, but turns out this guy was recording:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2505720711?t=5h3m17s
It was kinda nice to get an out of the box perspective on the pulling
slender bison
Tank tips on Rookery? Not my stream, but turns out this guy was recording:
https...
You linked a timestamp where the guy runs around Dornagal for 1 min. Either this is bait advertising or clip the pull
heavy sparrow
I'll do that mb
slender bison
It's annoying
frosty mango
Don’t invite streaming shams who die every other pull 
elfin ginkgo
Why everyone dooming about ppal all of a sudden??
slender bison
Why everyone dooming about ppal all of a sudden??
Whos "everyone" ? Your streamer YouTube feed?
dusky canopy
I think it’s doomer day
elfin ginkgo
This discord
dusky canopy
A lot of class discords are rolling
slender bison
Yeah, streamers do that. Unless you have 3.8k this season you can calm down
And play what you like
elfin ginkgo
Yeah thats all fun and games but i wanna be invited into groups and we all know how that goes
slender bison
You'll get invited and after that make a group. Same story this season with non-VDH tanks after 3.4k pugs . Or run your key
elfin ginkgo
Merp. Anyway, did ppal get buffed or some shi? I didnt see any significant changes
mighty valley
i don't even see this dooming anywhere
slender bison
His YouTube algo went crazy for a bit
elfin ginkgo
.
elfin ginkgo
next season you get fucked by paladins instead
.
elfin ginkgo
I just ignore yoda
mighty valley
if you've figured out the tech to ignore yoda, you can ignore two discord randos too
elfin ginkgo
I was just wondering gee,
slender bison
if you've figured out the tech to ignore yoda, you can ignore two discord randos...
But I need my daily PTR tier lists 
heavy sparrow
Don’t invite streaming shams who die every other pull <:keks:936231610850897992>
Tell me about it, I'm glad I got a recording of it but you can see him slugging behind
slender bison
i meant paladins in priory not paladins
Underrated
elfin ginkgo
Lmao
frosty mango
I think yoda is just a master clickbaiter
How can you be so obviously good at the game and then say shit that’s so obviously off base sometimes
frosty mango
Dude is god tier subtle troll I swear, he’ll say something that’s like….just enough to make you stop and think “wait that can’t be right” and then we all go watch his videos so we can argue about it
wicked jungle
Hello, I just had mythic reclear with my guild on pwarr as I'm gearing it up and prepping for S3 as a second pick. What would you recommend for second dinar purchase as a trinket? I'm torn between HoC or Bombsuit (safest option as I'm learning to play it). I already spent one dinar on Myth track Gally shield
And currently my trinkets are shite (suspicious drink and scrapfield)
Was even considering Kezan for early S3 unless it gets severely bashed (fun detected)
stiff gate
Dude is god tier subtle troll I swear, he’ll say something that’s like….just eno...
I dunno if it’s that or just that he has crazy bias toward a few specific tanks so all his “tier list” stuff isn’t even representative of his own experience
frosty mango
Hello, I just had mythic reclear with my guild on pwarr as I'm gearing it up and...
I would go bombsuit if you plan to push keys early, hoc if not but it’s a toss up
wicked jungle
Depends on what ends up being "the" comp, the "main" pick for now is ppal
Which I think is safer than warrior, unless dps turns out to be completely shit and I need to bring the buff
wicked jungle
I would go bombsuit if you plan to push keys early, hoc if not but it’s a toss u...
I could get both after farming the last dinar, I mean
The only thing I'm not planning on doing now is 12s on warr, so I don't see myself getting a myth track tome anytime soon
Cba playing with the people pushing keys to 12s rn
I already have around 19k haste, it isn't a problem to have more in case I went for bombsuit, right? (was reading somewhere that it might be a softcap or smth)
frosty mango
16k ish is what you need to maintain shield block without heavy repercussions
Both hoc and bombsuit on mythic track will be solid choices going into next tier
wicked jungle
16k ish is what you need to maintain shield block without heavy repercussions
I don't even know where I'm getting all this haste, I have 3 crafted items and I don't even have a haste mh
mighty valley
I don't even know where I'm getting all this haste, I have 3 crafted items and I...
you have haste in nearly every slot and a massive haste neck LOL
mystery: solved
wicked jungle
Yeah I mean, I tried to get all of the recommended items as they were up for grabs on reclear
So I wasn't thinking much on """overcapping""", but I am assuming it isn't a major issue
mighty valley
Don't we all with each passing year
warm plinth
wicked jungle
That's a lot of crit
warm plinth
Crit go brrr
wicked jungle
Thinking that yesterday my character was 620 and with very bad stats, I feel kinda blessed xD
warm plinth
massive vers too
warm plinth
btw this is not on purpose lol
frosty mango
I did 4m overall today in some budget tier cinderbrew because the healer gave me pi
frosty mango
I’m almost positive I didn’t press ignore pain once that entire dungeon
frosty mango
I dunno I always feel like hoc should be better but it hurts so bad to lose time in bosses
It drags you down
Outdpsing people on trash doesn’t feel nearly as good as doing it on bosses
warm plinth
prime sphinx
no need at this point
heavy sparrow
Demolish is life
This is the way
old flame
no need at this point
okay, thanks
tribal wharf
errant wagon
I finally done it. I got 18 priory down and resil 18's met. Seasonal goal accomplished 🥹
ty all for helping me with my random questions and theory crafts over the past weeks
errant wagon
the goal post kept moving as I played. 18 was decided about 1 month ago as I think that is the best play I can eek out without devoting my entire life to WoW
and even that took a considerable amount of my free time
studying routes constantly, reviewing my own logs, etc.
solid sun
I gotcha
Now that you’ve reached your goal, would you do it again
Do you feel adequately fulfilled? Looking back on your journey, do you have a particular event that sticks out as a favorite moment?
errant wagon
Definitely, gonna make that my next seasonal goal.
I do wish I had a solid team that I could rely on, I have a healer and 2 DPS but just never could find a solid 5th so it made the push nights tough.
I'd like to see title, I'm so close, but that last little leg is extremely tough. I think title is currently 7/8 19's done.
Favorite moment was probably the fact that my 18 cinder, after failing 30 something times, was actually completed as Arms and I'm a super scuffed arms player just becaused they needed it for phys comp LOL
but all the other 7 i did as prot warr
I still would like to go finished cinder as prot to feel actually fulfilled
solid sun
Very interesting that you did one of them as Arms. I would have been feeling some type of way about having one done as something other than prot
It’s also interesting that your favorite moment lead to you wanting to redo the key lol
errant wagon
One of these is not like the other 🙈
solid sun
Gotta redo it I think
errant wagon
definitely lol.
solid sun
It’s the only way
errant wagon
Personally I don't even think cinder is a hard key from the tank perspective. I had no issue, all my runs were some other mistakes beyond my play
so I'm not stressed about redoing it
Priory and Floodgate were by far the hardest personally
cedar rune
So is the TLDR on tome to just swap asap when you’re in shield mode?
warm plinth
yes
frosty mango
Priory and Floodgate were by far the hardest personally
Priory is my least fav key just because trying to gather is misery
errant wagon
Priory is my least fav key just because trying to gather is misery
Literally everything is misery, but yes agreed lol.
prime sphinx
So is the TLDR on tome to just swap asap when you’re in shield mode?
in raid u can unequip it and re-equip 30s before pull and switch to sword on pull for bonus
cedar rune
Oh badass
dull relic
why in the dungeon journal for mugzee does it make no mention of how much dmg the dot after molten gold knuckles you get does
and also apparently doesnt show what the dmg taken debuff from popping a mine is
they just releasing incomplete dungeon journals in this bitch now
frosty mango
Because you can’t spell block it
dull relic
truege
frosty mango
lol
lofty glen
??? is this a mistake?
narrow ether
Priory and Floodgate were by far the hardest personally
getting chunked on priory first boss is pretty much ass clench gaming
errant wagon
amen 😛
jagged pier
??? is this a mistake?
Nope it was that bad
blazing ridge
And it still is.
jagged pier
Well yes
jagged pier
No
sharp merlin
fuck
blazing ridge
I mean, does it matter? You dont want them behind you anyway or? xd
swift owl
is it worth it on obtaining D.I.S.C belt if I only planning to comeback to play in S3?
blazing condor
I mean, does it matter? You dont want them behind you anyway or? xd
Not if you tryna block attacks no
stone ice
I mean, does it matter? You dont want them behind you anyway or? xd
sometimes i spin around really quick to keep the healer awake
blazing condor
Pwarr jumpscare
sharp merlin
I mean, does it matter? You dont want them behind you anyway or? xd
More hitting things whilst I gather
blazing ridge
I think gathering clean, taking a few secs more, is better than jumping in a pack. If you find yourself needing to aggro behind you, just save your Roar for it I guess.
mellow bridge
is it worth it on obtaining D.I.S.C belt if I only planning to comeback to play ...
It's still gonna be bis for a while in s3
And it's not much effort to get
swift owl
Thank you
neon elk
Prolly gonna swop it for any hero track belt
sharp merlin
I think gathering clean, taking a few secs more, is better than jumping in a pac...
maybe it's just me, but if I'm with pugs, if they're not gathered in less than 0.1sec, all pixel perfect stacked, I feel like they think im trolling
maybe it's a me thing
pallid quiver
If it makes you feel better, your average pug probably does think that
That being said, the average pug also thinks the carpet in the living room is where you should go to the bathroom
viscid forge
what are good picks for prot with dinars if I've only cleared HC raid and havn't timed all keys on +12 yet?
mellow bridge
House of cards
Save one dinar for myth pacemaker if you plan on getting all 12s done
blazing condor
That being said, the average pug also thinks the carpet in the living room is wh...
Wait we talking wow pugs or dog pugs
pallid quiver
I'm pretty sure wow pugs, because dog pugs are smarter than them
stone ice
also also, tank threat has been a real mechanic for so long, if your dps pop all CDs while you are still gathering and are getting themselves killed, thats honestly on them
cerulean tusk
Any DPS that dies while you gather should be pointed at and laughed at 
Any healer that gets a stray add on them and doesn't run towards you, same deal
You are there to tank, not to herd panicked blind and dumb cats with their tails on fire 
dusty bison
Also enjoy having an MM hunter who doesn't know what misdirect is and then rips aggro straight away
solid sun
Tbf I think threat has been more of an issue recently than it used to be
They should still be laughed at but also Blizz pls
neon elk
Didnt they buff threat like recently tho?
solid sun
Didn’t do anything
Dorki put out a video giving thoughts on the tanks in ptr but inside the video he made a point about threat that I’d love the big brain folks here to discuss but essentially he said threat is an issue at least in part because a lot of the abilities tanks use to gather are largely not producing the damage they should be/used to. He then pulled up a few logs to compare damage dealt by tanks and their breakdowns past vs present
I thought it was pretty interesting
neon elk
There is also a lot of broken/not working properly stuff when it comes to threat, like for example vdh used to suffer a lot for that
But balancing threat isnt that eazy, its either the way we have now or its kompletly nuts and we have pull whole dung kite meta
solid sun
I don’t think we would have a kite meta since so many of the mobs target party members that aren’t the tank now
slender bison
Threat with the recent buff is like 915% of tank damage. The only time you would fail is if you don't have same focus target as the best DPS.
And to lose threat during a pull, it means that you either failed your aoe gatherers or the best DPS literally did 9 times more damage than you.
solid sun
That’s just not true
slender bison
How so?
solid sun
Some of the best tank players in the game have continued to complain about threat
I’m not going to believe that they’re just losing aggro or having a miserable time gathering because they’re sucking
torn gulch
is it worth it on obtaining D.I.S.C belt if I only planning to comeback to play ...
it's a 701 piece that can take like 40-45 min to get and fully upgrade
depends if you think it's worth
slender bison
Then it's buggy or has weird input to the server
slender bison
The threat issues start happening in 17-18 keys where DPS are very good
But I don't think Blizz likes removing threat risk or do the "while tank is in melee range, mob can't agro anyone" route
lilac basalt
I think Dorki has a pretty good argument and analysis of the problem.
He compares the damage of the abilities doing most damage in DF and in TWW (kinda) and shows for example how TC dmg sucks now compared to the old times. (Also mentions that thane might be better in this regard)
But this seems to be the case with most tanks.
I think it is worth a watch (at least this section)
Not like we can do anything about it, tho
lilac basalt
So I think his conclusion is that the classes are not well designed for how threat works now
stone ice
yeah, the damage is basically in herotalents for tanks and some other things, not in the regular rotational buttons, with th exception of bear basically
if tclap chunked, grouping wouldnt be as much of a pain
ionic nimbus
Threat is an issue due to the way most threat generators are working (cone frontals e.g). You are not hitting every mob with the worthy abilities all the time. Divine toll ore thunderous roar and u r good. But you can not safe them for the beginning of every pull.
ionic fern
if tclap chunked, grouping wouldnt be as much of a pain
If DPS waited then it also wouldn't be an issue.
rocky pecan
If DPS waited then it also wouldn't be an issue.
5 Sunders
ionic fern
Not even that. If a big pull Is coming up,it's just the gathering time.
They can dot or w/e if you establish initial threat properly per pack while gathering,that won't be a issue.
hardy snow
Tell that to dragons, that roars on mobs that tank just bodypulled
ionic fern
Let them die. 0 cares.
grizzled nova
So I think his conclusion is that the classes are not well designed for how thre...
My problem with his argument is that the threat issue is mostly a product of how we're pulling and grouping and not the abilties themselves.
If we were just charging into the packs blizzard had designed and starting combat - no issue, but we're taking 3 from here, 3 from there, and 3 from there, and a complex series of interrupts/cc/los need to happen while those mobs collapse onto the tank who is doing no appreciable damage to all of them while they're being grouped.
And I dion't even think that's a problem in itself - like Mwahi said, all of the threat issues are basically solved by DPS effectively just doing nothing other than support for the first 10 seconds of every pull, which does feel lame, but that's how players are putting pulls together.
lilac basalt
Tbh I actually never played dps in m+ but as a (pug-only) tank I was surprised in my first few weeks how the dps doesn’t help to gather by interrupting the faraway casters, but instead open with their strongest hitting abilities and spells right away.
stone ice
10sec is a bit much but ish, BUT, the game is more FUN if people get to go in and start blasting, and tank snap aggro is really bad rn because almost all abilities that are designed to maintain and get aggro on a slightly spread out group of enemies are tuned to do zero damage currently
just because there are ways to play around it doesnt mean that its the most fun play pattern in a videogame which is supposed to be fun for all 5 group members
tribal wharf
dps has never waited for aggro or understood aggro until dying to it multiple times and turning on a threat meter addon and pretending they notice it when they die again to aggro
point in case
havent we literally been saying wait for 3 sunders since early 2004 molten core?
onyxia at the very least (2005 version, not wrath, not classic)
and the reason i know that shit, is cuz i did that with rogue
grizzled nova
10sec is a bit much but ish, BUT, the game is more FUN if people get to go in an...
What's the solution, though? Putting a dumptruck threat multiplier on every single tank AOE ability in the game?
tribal wharf
fan of knifes if you were hitting enough targets, it would make the delay to hit it again less, so i could spam hell out of it on wrath ony whelplings
and then so with that and naxx and ulduar, i installed threat meter, never ever paid attention to it way i should
icy yarrow
The removing of mandatory trainning ground for early dungeon finder was the biggest mistake ever... somehow players argue about not... kekw
grizzled nova
Making them "do more damage" is also a bandaid, since we want class design to feel good to play and part of that is working through maintenance buttons and payoff buttons so the rotation feels good in combat, if everything is just normalized to do a lot of damage and the damage breakdown becomes one long list of conditionless buttons that all do similar damage to each other, then nothing feels good to press
tribal wharf
that ara kara sac thing broke me
it was more the second time when i ran in it in first keystone week the week after everyone btiching and arguing about who gets my regular mythic version instantly leaving boss is dead
where on the keystone, we do the run, they all die, to final boss OFC, and then
it drops, for me, and the whole team is "okay are all rolling for it now"guy #1 "you're rolling im rolling too" guy #2
cuz, you already have it, so yu have to give it to us cuz its bis
both a blessing and a curse that didnt get recorded
its like, i see that shit from players and im just thinking to my self..... FUCK........ YOU.......
stone ice
What's the solution, though? Putting a dumptruck threat multiplier on every sing...
2 options, either re-working the damage spread of tank abilities and putting more damage into the abilities designed to build snap aggro, like thunderclap, bloodboil etc (in past expansion tclap was like 20% of a m+ total damage, OR, giving those abilities a big extra aggro multiplier
once all my herotalent stuff starts doing damage and im dpsing im racing the dps for damage, tank damage, the tank aggro multiplier, none of those are really the issue. the issue is WHAT is doing the damage
a mix of colossus revenge and bleeds and shieldbashes doing all my damage is nice and all, but if the part thats scuffed is the first 2-3 globals and the grouping of slightly spread mobs, there is an ability specifically designed to do that, and it currently does like, zero. the damage our herotalents do had to be taken FROM somewhere, and it was (intentionally or not) taken from those abilities for most tanks (except bear)
frosty mango
I think what people forget is that mythic plus is a team based event, not a solo event.
Dps and healers should be enabling your gather just like you are positioning to enable their dps
icy yarrow
Blizz just just nuke the theat problem to the oblivion, is just a nonsense that makes new tanks focus on non prior things and for tanks with exp just a thing to ignore (at least it should)
stone ice
nuking the threatproblem "completly" leads to kiting quickly which many people also dont enjoy
icy yarrow
I think what people forget is that mythic plus is a team based event, not a solo...
Witing 5-10sec doing "nothing" but helping to gather is just boring lets not lie ourselfs
frosty mango
There’s nothing wrong with dps needing to adjust play to support gather on very large pulls, and for the most part after the threat changes there are no issues unless you have someone just going full send while you gather and at that point it’s not a tank issue
frosty mango
Witing 5-10sec doing "nothing" but helping to gather is just boring lets not lie...
It’s not 10 seconds
It’s like, 3 at most
stone ice
there is something wrong with it because its a game and the dps players dont enjoy waiting, and i dont enjoy having to make them wait
its a game
the solution should be whats the most enjoyable playpattern, which imo is, stuff im actively trying to have threat on, aka, not kiting, i should realistically have threat on
icy yarrow
The kitting problem comes when mobs obliterate you with basics
stone ice
the latiest solution would just to take the abilities that are like tclap, and 20x their threat specifically, and we would stop having to think about threat for a few patches
icy yarrow
Not cos u lose threat
frosty mango
We dont have to think about threat now
stone ice
The kitting problem comes when mobs obliterate you with basics
no, it comes when its possible, because then you pull bigger than you can live and kite
stone ice
We dont have to think about threat now
it "is" "mostly" a vdh problem as the first global they do that does "any" aoe damage is like, nr 5
frosty mango
There are definitely issues with the current m+ design enforcing large pulls and that requiring tanks to understand the nuances of directionality while gathering but I don’t think that’s a threat problem
stone ice
no, it comes when its possible, because then you pull bigger than you can live a...
but i think you misunderstood what i meant butnits also not important, dont worry about it
frosty mango
Threat was a problem until they buffed it
icy yarrow
no, it comes when its possible, because then you pull bigger than you can live a...
Tell me that when u grab 30 mobs and the half is turning to the party cos they hav non tank skills
stone ice
didnt they remove most of the fervent strikes?
icy yarrow
So, is posb to tune the dmg without fucking the threat and not forcing to kite, my hones opp
frosty mango
The first pull of priory is a good example that illustrates what you’re saying - four to five large spread packs with casters. You can easily pull this pack and keep threat on it while it collapses but doing it properly is a question of directionality and positioning, not threat
If you direction poorly you die (hit in the back during gather), if you position poorly they don’t collapse (melee stack, Los)
stone ice
for warrior, for sure, id even say that warrior dk and bear are quite well tuned rn because all 3 can maintain threat on a grouping pull but there is some gameplay involved in making it smooth on part of the warrior. thats like the ideal dream world where tank gets to be a mechanic thats relevant in some way, but mostly something for tanks to worry about, not for dps.
the thing thats causing these issues to pop up this expansion is just how many multipliers are stacked on abilties for damage due to hero talents and talent trees (how many effects buff the raw damage of an unjuiced thunderclap?), so those abilites that arent cool but meant to aoe snap aggro are left behind in the dust, BUT, current warrior shows, its something that can become skill expression and be played around. The only 2 classes that are actually genuinly annoying because of the current "distribution" of tank damage are vdh and brew
frosty mango
Every one of the tanks has tools to facilitate this, demon hunter has soc and a massive aoe dot which makes gathering almost trivial.
Brew you can rop and stop and/or statue taunt the rear stragglers while you’re getting the forward gather and keg tossing but brew snap aggro is probably the worst
stone ice
but, to be fair, gouping on brew has basically always felt ass, even when spinning crane kick did appreciable damage
frosty mango
But again imo not a threat problem it’s a directionality and positioning problem
Both on the tank and the group simultaneously
IMO if mass pulls are the intended way m+ should be completed then blizz should fix that with positioning and dungeon knowledge not class tuning. Add places to Los, choke points, adjust mob positioning etc
stone ice
id personally think that they could really look into shifting the damage distribution around a little in vdh/turn spirit bomb into an actual button, and nerf brew damage and put that damage into sck so they press it rotationally, but thats mostly QoL stuff
frosty mango
I’d be up for brew redistribution
It’s the only tank where I feel like snap aggro still struggles
Alternatively just bring an mm hunter to every key
Threat problems begone
solid sun
Gathering sucks and threat sucks and blizz should fix it
If the answer is dps players waiting then it’s designed wrong
Because that ish ain’t fun
sharp merlin
That's how I feel 😄
solid sun
Also idk where you’re getting that vdh doesn’t have aggro issues roid
It’s probably the biggest complaint about current vdh
Even moreso than the gifs we always post of them just getting clapped right off the rip
Probably the biggest draw for playing bear rn is that I think it probably has the easiest time gathering pulls throughout a dungeon and that’s because thrash and MF do a lot of heavy lifting
sharp merlin
Probably the biggest draw for playing bear rn is that I think it probably has th...
it's super chill just to be a standing bear and MF some trash a mile away ahah
tribal wharf
Also idk where you’re getting that vdh doesn’t have aggro issues roid
cuz it deals the most dmg of all tanks and has or had a huge burst which gets multiplied by tank threat
solid sun
Vdh does not deal the most damage of all tanks
dusky canopy
Pretty sure that’s Prot war or BRM right now no?
tribal wharf
did for long time, but its got the eyebeam thing for tank
cant be, we'd be meta if we were most dps tank
solid sun
We do the most damage
And we are not meta
Turns out there’s more to being meta than damage
tribal wharf
we deal the most damage and we have threat problem?
i think someone here last night saying something to that effect
solid sun
It’s mostly during the gather
Very rarely will you ever just lose aggro mid pull. I’ve seen an enhance shaman rip threat
But that’s exceedingly rare
And I was informed here that this is a feature of enhance
I guess they run a build where they can get super lucky or smth
frosty mango
Also idk where you’re getting that vdh doesn’t have aggro issues roid
I’ve never had a vdh with threat issues, gather issues maybe but was that not an issue with throw glaive that was fixed?
solid sun
To clarify the threat issue being discussed is during the gather across the board
frosty mango
Yes I mean like losing threat during gather
tribal wharf
i can remember condemn had alot of threat, i would get aggro and die in LFR on pull
frosty mango
I haven’t seen it happen since the 11.1.5 patch
solid sun
Vdh bugs were fixed but it’s still a leading complaint about the spec
tribal wharf
like as dps
frosty mango
Vdh bugs were fixed but it’s still a leading complaint about the spec
Well they gotta find something to complain about, there’s almost nothing left
solid sun
In fact Dorki and their podcast reported the bugs afflicting vdh were fixed earlier than people realized and threat was still miserable
tribal wharf
if blizzard would add condemn in place of removing spell block i would probably stop being so bitter
solid sun
The reason they have threat issues on the gather, if Dorki is to be believed, is because SpB is not used/used rarely, soul cleave does no damage and neither does immo aura
frosty mango
I’ve not experienced any issues with vdh tanks nor do I feel like threat is a major problem during gather when I play my poopy vdh
solid sun
To handle your threat you have to use specific abilities instead of abilities that have traditionally been used to help gather
frosty mango
IMO brew should be the ones complaining
frosty mango
To handle your threat you have to use specific abilities instead of abilities th...
If the complaint is that it’s unintuitive or feels bad I can get behind that
That’s a fair complaint
solid sun
His whole point was that for the most part, the abilities tanks use traditionally to gather are less effective than they used to be
He went into more detail with pwar, ppal, vdh, and I think Brew
tribal wharf
i think it should be during first 5 seconds of combat, the tank has 5x aggro
solid sun
I thought it was a pretty interesting take
frosty mango
I would rather they introduce tools specifically intended for gather or make routing used for gather w chokes and Los
Like a banner that taunts all mobs within 40 yards to attack it directly on a 3m cooldown. They could call it mocking banner
ionic fern
Ngl,I've had only a few Incidents where dps'ers grab a few mobs when I am gathering.
Always surprises me when this topic comes up.
tribal wharf
what i really really want out of wow is routing tool built into the game, and general recording thingy for games in the client
you start a game, it starts recording it
frosty mango
what i really really want out of wow is routing tool built into the game, and ge...
Yes plz
tribal wharf
simple
frosty mango
In game mdt would be a+++++
tribal wharf
at least it puts people on the same starting level playing feild
to have mdt baseline
and MDT was so buggy and non representative of some dungeons, like the TP boss in theatre of pain
frosty mango
Always surprises me when this topic comes up.
I had a similar reaction but that’s why I said I think it’s a directionality/positioning thing because when I see newer tanks struggling it’s almost always how they move/plan gather and not a low threat issue
tribal wharf
hes got like, 4 or 5 abilities and then because he can copy player abilities, mdt is listing out like god damn judgement and frost bolt and shit
wtf is that shit
how am i supposed to get knowledge from that
ionic fern
I had a similar reaction but that’s why I said I think it’s a directionality/pos...
Probably yeah.
frosty mango
how am i supposed to get knowledge from that
You’re not, you just remove all player abilities from the game and then you won’t need an external tool like mdt
An in game mdt type tool could be very empowering
At a minimum I think the game should list mob percentages natively
tribal wharf
i want the recording thing too after many hours of using outplayed and then later steam game recordings
the type where i dont have to set stuff up and tell it to record, and then worry about capturing streamer audio in the backgrou nd
cuz then i can go back and look at exactly what i did, or see, no, that glitch wasnt a figment of my imagination
hell, i dont even really mind if it just records at basic 1080p 60 fps cap but VFR instead of CFR
i like CFR video better
tribal wharf
At a minimum I think the game should list mob percentages natively
all of these things as OPTIONS first
people dont want to interact with it, they dont have to, but native option is tehre
mild river
are there news affixes for m+ coming next season?
frosty mango
Nothing yet I’m aware of
I don’t think anything has been announced? I could be wrong
dim thicket
Alright how do we feel about the state of prot on the ptr? I feel if it gets much more traction they are going to hit it with the nerf hammer.
urban bane
Kinda surprised they havent dumpstered the self-healing from FbV
We're healing rather a lot from it. But in some respects I hope they do nerf or change it it? IMO it isn't really typical of prot warrior to self heal for quite so much from bleeds. And I feel a little concerned about "pull big and apply bleeds to survive" as a tanking model.
dim thicket
It’s nice to see prot doing well though so that is good 😊
urban bane
Yeah prot warrior isn't bad by any means. I think my concern lies with the simultaneous removal of spell block plus so much of our tankiness coming from these bleed heals. Seems like a straw away from a bad situation.
shut summit
it's a fine line for sure
neon elk
They should increase that healing even more and put a target cap on it , that way we still heal a lot , but u dont feel useles on ST , like prio first boss where u are in hands of healer
nocturne spindle
It is a fine line but at the same time it's still basically in line with vdh and brew isn't far behind
And all the like, casual level discourse is kind of that vdh is a good level tank and everything else feels bad
So I wouldnt be totally surprised is if they rebuff tank self sustain back to Dragonflight levels
neon elk
With their aproach to make tanking entey level easier they might do that
clear rune
Is there any weakaura that tells you when you can spell block something?
frosty mango
It is a fine line but at the same time it's still basically in line with vdh and...
Yeah but our self healing being tied so heavily to bleeds is bad imo because it locks us in two two levels of choices
It forces us to play fbv and it creates a situation where we are very weak before we get tier
So until we get tier bonus we’re going to be struggling
nocturne spindle
I mean we are still close to the same levels of mitigation we were at this tier
So I don't think we'll feel weak
Just not Uber tanky until then
frosty mango
I don’t think it will be a major issue I’m just averse to set bonuses that lock you into talent choices
wicked jungle
I don’t think it will be a major issue I’m just averse to set bonuses that lock ...
As you should be, considering that talent nodes should be chosen according to playstyle variations
There's not much of a choice if you're kinda forced to take specific nodes just because..
frosty mango
As you should be, considering that talent nodes should be chosen according to pl...
Moreso they constantly tout player agency as one of their key goals in talent design and then they add set bonuses that effectively remove that agency
urban portal
I don’t think it will be a major issue I’m just averse to set bonuses that lock ...
they all do
if they dont lock you into talents then they have to be tuned very weak
especially for dps specs
for tanks specs eh
frosty mango
they all do
Yes, and I’m averse to it on every class lol
If talents aren’t a choice why do we have them?
urban portal
so you want DF S1 sets
tiers sets are used to shake up what talents we take
theres always going to be a best
"guys revenge gives me 4% damage and DR"
wicked jungle
tiers sets are used to shake up what talents we take
or synergize with the ability kit, perhaps?
frosty mango
I want them to design set bonuses that alter how we play
urban portal
or synergize with the ability kit, perhaps?
theres always gonna be biases
unless they are EXTREMELY generic
frosty mango
"guys revenge gives me 4% damage and DR"
No, but they could have a tier set that gives you a talent interaction you may not normally have, for example they could have prot war 2 set proc a ravager use or if it’s talented, give you a second charge
urban portal
or synergize with the ability kit, perhaps?
lets say theres a tier set thats as simple as "10% shield slam damage increase"
then itll still bias thane
urban portal
No, but they could have a tier set that gives you a talent interaction you may n...
this would still bias ravager
it wouldnt hard lock it
but it would still bias you into ravager
because now you can control the ravager
frosty mango
You’re right there will always be a best but as it stands right now they largely influence the best by hard locking us into talent choices - which to be fair is probably the intent as you said
urban portal
its def not hard locking
its soft locking
because you are balanced around your strongest build
a hard lock would be arms/fury slayer
at the beginning you werent forced to take sudden death
but now you are to do anything with slayer
thats a hard lock
same with slayer and BS
forces you into bs over ravager
neon elk
They should make something lame your shield block reflects dmg or whatnot, it wont force you to any talent, nor will it prefer hero tree
It wont change your rotation tho
wicked jungle
What do you think about this? (PTR - I don't know what else to switch up for Ravager/Whirling Blade)
warm plinth
What do you think about this? (PTR - I don't know what else to switch up for Rav...
Why are you running bolster?
wicked jungle
I'm just trying out and taking inspo from the live build, I am not sure about anything - I've started playing pwarr two days ago
cerulean tusk
Heh, that is fine and good fun. But try to concider what bolster does and what function it got for you as a prot warrior
No need to tell you you are doing it wrong, as you are new - and you prob already do. Just try to figure out for yourself why
warm plinth
We don't run bolster on live either. Drop that. And drop indomitable.
wicked jungle
LS on 2 minutes doesn't seem too bad, but I also haven't had any particular situations where it was that needed
cerulean tusk
then come back to us
wicked jungle
I'm thinking a bit about the 2-min IBF before it was 2min baseline (BDK main)
It was a "nice to have" but in no way necessary
Unless specific scenarios
cerulean tusk
There is a big difference between having a DR ability, and a weak heal - that you got cowered by another ability already
wicked jungle
I'm not comparing the two, more trying to compare the decision-making behind the talent choice
cerulean tusk
I get it, but look at what Last Stand does, not to mention what Bolstering does
then try to understand what gives it value, and perhaps if able - why as pwarrior, it really doesnt have any
wicked jungle
Guess I'm really not there to make these calls yet, but the increased HP pool might come in handy but not particularly required + the heal is meh, I agree
cerulean tusk
Heh, yeah, especially as BDK main I can see why you think HP value matters more than it does
warm plinth
The only times ive pressed LS this season is by accident
That's how little it matters
cerulean tusk
Thing is, warrior is about mitigating before you take the damage, not having a HP able to absorb the hit
wicked jungle
I was a supporter of not using the talents/trinkets to increase stamina
So I can relate with the logic but not with the practice ;P
wicked jungle
Thing is, warrior is about mitigating before you take the damage, not having a ...
This I am learning - the character I have played in S2 is prot paladin and I'm learning the hard way that BDK is very unique, more than I thought
cerulean tusk
If you reach the point where you need LS on a 2min CD, for the emergency heal, and victory rush dont already do the deal
you are beyond dead
wicked jungle
If you reach the point where you need LS on a 2min CD, for the emergency heal, a...
And there probably is another problem within my playstyle or priority setting
cerulean tusk
Heh, yeah, we aint that kind of tank - you will get to wrap your head around it sooner than later
neon elk
Im more concerned why everyone ( or at least what i see here) takes 4% extra magic dr instead of extra armor
cerulean tusk
BDK and Pwarrior is so different mindset wise - it is why I play both
wicked jungle
I have been playing BDK for a very long time so far, having to switch to prot paladin and enter reclear in mythic with boosts (clients).. While having never played it before.. Welp, was not "fun"
cerulean tusk
I believe it
wicked jungle
But I appreciate getting to learn the other classes and being versatile.
cerulean tusk
btw, for fun - you now know why bolster is bad and doesnt work out as an option?
wicked jungle
As well as Indomitable, given that it increases the health pool while not adding much to the main purpose of the playstyle, which is mitigating
cerulean tusk
Hell yeah B) Aight you have fun, I am off to make some dinner
wicked jungle
Hell yeah B) Aight you have fun, I am off to make some dinner
Thank you for the chitchat :))
wicked jungle
We don't run bolster on live either. Drop that. And drop indomitable.
Indomitable for Bloodsurge perhaps?
For passive rage gen?
Or Thunderlord for Demo Shout CDR
neon elk
U can drop indom bolater and ls , that free up 3 points
wicked jungle
LS as well? Like not even talenting it?
neon elk
Yea it doesnt give much, u dont need it realy
Then u can go bloodsurge and one if ravager talents , and have one flex
warm plinth
Indomitable for Bloodsurge perhaps?
BSV is an option too if doing higher keys
neon elk
Whats the talent choice below bloodsurge ?
neon elk
Swap that magic DR for armor i guess
wicked jungle
With BSV / Bloodsurge if needed
neon elk
Naaah
wicked jungle
nvm, I understood
neon elk
The one on top 3rd row
wicked jungle
the other talent
ye the red one
and maybe Spellbreaker sounds better, but I like the idea of pressing a button with value
35% magic DR on 20s CD + reflect, welp
jagged pier
u also need bloodbounre
strong forum
Swap best served cold with bloodborne
violet ginkgo
wicked jungle
Swap best served cold with bloodborne
Keeping the magic DR?
Because I removed Fight Through the Flames to get BB
rough egret
wicked jungle
Now that I read Best Served Cold, it doesn't sound like something I want to invest a point in
jagged pier
id take BSV over fttf
neon elk
Yea same
wicked jungle
Hunker Down seems solid but I understand that if no magic damage = no need
wicked jungle
I feel more like taking out fttf than hunker down because of the button value, if I can mitigate on demand vs blanket 4% in all scenarios
For BSV, that is
jagged pier
if thats the your thoughts why would u not take spellbreaker then
wicked jungle
because spellbreaker adds rng
jagged pier
its 8% DR basically
wicked jungle
vs a button which gives me 35% magic DR when I want it
on a 20s CD
that was my argument
strong forum
It's on paper 4% magic Dr
but
wicked jungle
the second part of Hunker Down sounds more appealing to me - if I'm choosing between 4% magic DR in general or on-demand bigger magic DR, it's a no brainer for me
strong forum
Only on paper
Oh yeah absolutely spell breaker is absolutely only for people who don't give a shit about using cds and just yolo vibe through the game
neon elk
If u need extra magic dr, go hunker , get rid of fttf, put that into bsv or exe talents based on what you need , same flex with hunker if u dont need it
wicked jungle
If u need extra magic dr, go hunker , get rid of fttf, put that into bsv or ex...
exactly what I am saying
wicked jungle
Oh yeah absolutely spell breaker is absolutely only for people who don't give a ...
and this
summarizing: if I have to choose between removing 4% magic dr from fttf or "improved spell reflection" with 35% dr on 20s cd, I'd rather do the latter
If I don't need magic dr at all, I take all of them away
strong forum
Si
wicked jungle
And this is just me theory-yapping with a new class 😄
tribal wharf
8% CHANCE..... to reduce the bosses imp fire ball (was 10k dmg) by 50% and then it goes on cd probably, and then you immediately get smacked by real boss for 1 million
if it has any kind of CD longer than 3 seconds, its garbage through and through
strong forum
8% chance to pretend to be useful
patent scroll
They should've flipped those numbers
wicked jungle
I am still trying to see why the added health pool is so disliked, even tho I understand the concept of mitigating the damage rather than getting a bigger health bar for bigger hits
I guess my BDK brain still has to settle back
tribal wharf
i'd rather it be something like 25% chance to stop 100% of a spell that would would deal 25% or more of your total hp,
strong forum
Didn't wanna comment cuz you never know
wicked jungle
As in, you were waiting for me to figure out?
dusky canopy
I’d rather it be something like while this ability is active shield block also blocks spells for X duration
Sounds like it would work great
tribal wharf
It would be too complicated for the average warrior tank.
wicked jungle
It would be too complicated for the average warrior tank.
Is the bar this low?
tribal wharf
and require thinking about if magic attacks are OP or not.
dusky canopy
“You are not smart”
blizzard 2025
tribal wharf
the fact that 5% bigger as a talent for col made it to and stayed in live....
wicked jungle
You mean this?
I just noticed kekw
It kinda adds up with the theme of the colossus though..
tribal wharf
i mean sure right, but theres no other talent far as i know where its "your fire spells are 20% more firey appearance" (not the glyphs i know about those)
mighty valley
should've been 10%
wicked jungle
Fuck it, why not 20%
Then you press Avatar and it's doubled and given to the next person too
mighty valley
also yogi i know for damn sure you were not pressing spell block when you should've been
tribal wharf
20% and you equip some cool shades
wicked jungle
20% and you equip some cool shades
nah, you become the source of the shade for the others underneath
mighty valley
one of my favorite bugs from the original release of ff6
is that blind doesn't reduce the right stat
so for the most part, it's just the Cool Shades buff
rough egret
venthyr has the perk with the umbrella right? iirc 😄
tribal wharf
i just think game is too complicated, in every possible way thats all
always has be
mighty valley
you should be rejoicing at spell block going away then
wicked jungle
one of my favorite bugs from the original release of ff6
damn I remember that game, the very first FF I have ever played back when I got the PS1 in 99 iirc - I was so lost with the atb and stuff
mighty valley
one less complication
rough egret
92% chance to be dead
tribal wharf
mdt should be in the game, and tell me the spell is blockable, or in the dungeon journal
rough egret
🤷
tribal wharf
as i get older, i like older games more, not like 2600 but NES and old dos games and like sega genesis, ps2, xbox (all of them) pc of course (both large and indie games)
mighty valley
mdt should be in the game, and tell me the spell is blockable, or in the dungeon...
you would read this information and then forget it in the moment
tribal wharf
like just stuff where you turn it on and go, there not some dude yelling at me for 15 minutes
about some elfs that got thier home blown up and i should care about that
mighty valley
i think that's fair but it is hard for a game to exist for 20 years and have new stuff added to keep long-time players interested without it getting pretty complex
tribal wharf
and then i just jump in the game, play and log off
takes maybe 4 hours
i think i've had it with these 18 thousand hour games
dusky canopy
They could just add things like artifact weapons and corruption to keep it interesting
tribal wharf
loosing my damn mind
dusky canopy
Maybe it’s just me but those were my favorite times in the game
patent scroll
Corruption being anyones favorite time is like the start of legion being someones favorite time
Good for you but get some help
tribal wharf
like when i came back to wow, i was playing world of tanks at that time, ww2 tank sim shit,
mighty valley
They could just add things like artifact weapons and corruption to keep it inter...
you'd like to gasp borrow some power?
dusky canopy
Nah bro artifact weapons were so cool
rough egret
it was cool in Legion true
dusky canopy
you'd like to *gasp* borrow some power?
I have never been bothered by borrowed power, only acquisition
rough egret
not cool was fallign behind
tribal wharf
and thats you turn it on and you choose your tank, and there is a 20 minute time limit to the match and most likely you blow up in under 4 minutes probably under 3
sharp gale
Corruptions too, but they giga trolled with loot source + the vendor
dusky canopy
Corruptions were so damn fun
mighty valley
I have never been bothered by borrowed power, only acquisition
i'm with you dude, it just gets you crucified to say in the more reactive wow communities lol
tribal wharf
and you move slow and fire 1 bullet every like 15 seconds
sharp gale
The vendor is one of the big « FUCK U » from Blizz
dusky canopy
Giga stack your best stat!
mighty valley
corruptions were great... after they fixed the initial acquisition problems
tribal wharf
i VASTLY enjoyed my time in that game
dusky canopy
Stack a giant death beam as a tank and solo dungeons!?
Bro how is that not cool as hell to some of you?
It’s beyond me
mighty valley
asking a world of warcraft player to play world of warcraft is the gravest insult
sharp gale
The big insult seems to tell ppl to not pug m+
tribal wharf
im still fuckin mad, that i never got the chance to run a 4/5 players have the azarite crstal thingy in BFA speaking about corruptions
always wanted to make that happen like popping off an exodia in real yugioh
dusky canopy
Some of you never got to do heroic nyalotha 30man tank with warden 3 TD 4
And it shows
sharp gale
Oh I did some 29 tank+ one priest
dusky canopy
I usually brought a warlock when I did it
tribal wharf
no, i used TD as a time skip for TD prison cells
Twilight dev would clip into the cell doors
so i just poiinted self at doors and bam dont need rogue no more
sharp gale
Crazy to think raid buffs were 10% in bfa
dusky canopy
Randomly proccing the entire tolgador dungeon with TD made for some good laughs
tribal wharf
thats another bullshit crazy failure of world of warcraft in general
they had a bunch of keys that spawned inside of TD but they are so tiny and blend into things so much, that nobody would ever think to pick them up
solid sun
Borrowed power is great
tribal wharf
and i think they werew still slower than rogue
sharp gale
1 month vendor rotation is engraved as the biggest insult to me as a player
tribal wharf
if they do that again where there is many keys to get for doors in a run it should be like a big key ring with a bunch of keys, and that explains why you need many of them and why it takes longer to open the doors
solid sun
I don’t even mind artifact power tbh. I don’t mind grinding out AP but I’d like to be “done” at some point
tribal wharf
maybe you have a skeleton "prisoner" or "warden" key and that works faster but for THAT one, you have to know.
sharp gale
Acquisition is key
ONE MONTH, you saw cycle the vendor only 3 times
dusky canopy
5 weeks yes (iirc)
sharp gale
15 k mf tokens you needed to farm from vision, that’s enough for a hold back
tribal wharf
fuck visions
always hated them
the only positive was i got the stupid mount out of it
sharp gale
I like visions but 15k to farm before the your vendor week on a fresh alt
Or you have to wait 1 month
tribal wharf
its not that i dont like world of warcraft, okay
i just think its got a lot of problems that can no longer be ignored
solid sun
Visions had you killing a corrupt turbo evil person at the end. Isn’t that exactly what you want
tribal wharf
like, 1 time
not every single week for mcguffins
cuz, currency to borroweed power
tribal wharf
for the story boss i think
solid sun
You don’t even know what you want!
tribal wharf
the mcguffins is for the story boss about inserting an evil and or bad ass character in the story
to give it a reason why hes a prick
mcguffins for "you have to do this to play the game" isnt even remotely on the same wavelength
solid sun
Idk bro
You asked for super evil villains and mcguffins and they gave both to you in visions and you hated it
tribal wharf
i hated it the first time
same reason i didnt come back for HOA
i despise that place
solid sun
Halls of Atonement?
tribal wharf
ya, i was hearing about dog bleeds, i think they returned that?
tribal wharf
even the THOUGHT that it might could happen, would trigger me
i hate that dungeon sorry
solid sun
Like are bleeds just supposed to be gone forever
dark barn
Can intimidating shout or piercing howl work on Mugzee bombs? If yes its useful to kite them?
lavish rivet
Just bring a MW, BoP bot, etc.. be dwarf. Modern problems... have lots of solutions
tribal wharf
its more the bleeds and tht you get like 80% of count before the first boss
which i think is totally absurd
dusky canopy
They’re probably doing the kite p2 bombs strat
solid sun
What difference does it make when you get percentage
dusky canopy
I believe they’re mechanical so I don’t think they can be feared but I also never tried so I might just be talking out of rear
tribal wharf
cuz, in every single linear video game i can possibly think of, how many times is the first boss you encounter a big threat
dark barn
Thinking if they can be slowered with piercing howl
tribal wharf
castle vania 1, its a bat
solid sun
What does linear video game design have to do with WoW
dusky canopy
It’s much more efficient to have a Druid mass entangle them
But you have to bait them close to boss
tribal wharf
What does linear video game design have to do with WoW
because thats how good game design goes
dark barn
Yeah. Im tryng to help after the mass tangle
tribal wharf
what, because if it sucks to play and is painful
why would i want to come back to that experience!??!!
jagged pier
when in the fight? because if its at the end they are immune to any cc
dark barn
In the middle of the cages
Sometimes we do mistakes and the cc ends
Fight is hard
(Mythical)
solid sun
why would i want to come back to that experience!??!!
Because it doesn’t suck to play and isn’t painful and if you tank you can route the dungeon however you want
sharp gale
Do you push the boss at 4 min ?
tribal wharf
i like the old nintendo style of levels, you do a small section then an easy boss appears then they progressively get harder and final is the hardest or flashiest of it
dark barn
Do you push the boss at 4 min ?
Yes
If nobody dies we reach 10% at cage
But someone always dies
jagged pier
sharp gale
You do a dps break so ? Just to be sure you know what 4 min is
tribal wharf
it mostly translated to wow dungeons, small section of trash > boss > repeat
dark barn
We push to 40% really fast after the second soak
dusky canopy
You want to push before the second gaols
sharp gale
You are trying to do the 2 Zerg Strat at the same time
dusky canopy
And also just don’t pop first mine set
sharp gale
I do push before the gaols + skip p2 mines, but we have insane dps
dark barn
Its easy with 18% buff
sharp gale
Yes but imagine if you don’t have good dps
dusky canopy
We bait the mines as far back as we can on dirt side
Mass entangle
Then Rop
I think we tar trap maybe?
Oh wait are you guys freezing them?
sharp gale
I will not push more deeper, they chose a Strat that require VERY good dps, my kills the mines still gets cc immune and start to get « close » to the raid when the boss dies
They wait the magic pull, so just pull until you see it I guess
@dark barn you did 4 deposits on bandit ?
dark barn
I already forget bandit died ages ago
dusky canopy
If they’re extending I would say no they haven’t
dark barn
Bandit died on pull 79 and was a piece of cake
But we are on pull 250 for mugzee
Every 30s of the fight a potential wipe mechanic happens is sooo overwhelming and "waste time design"
dark barn
That one is specially unfair IMO
jagged pier
havent thought that about any of the fights this tier
there have been way worse in the past
dark barn
They said we had some of the hardest fights ever in this tier
Like pre nerf Bandit was the worst boss ever
dusky canopy
Tindral was insane
jagged pier
brah this tier was one of the easiest in years
solid sun
I don’t think any of these fights touch Ansurek
jagged pier
for the general population, top 50 or 100 bandit require shadow priests was annoying
but outside of that raid has been one of the easiest
rocky igloo
Sorry to ask but i have to tank the mythic ptr as our tank cant come, any recommended build?
frosty mango
but outside of that raid has been one of the easiest
What’s the hardest you think in recent memory
frosty mango
I think tindral is big but Amir as a whole wasn’t bad
Shadowlands raids come to mind as just being brutal
frigid valley
Shadowlands raids come to mind as just being brutal
i mean it was the land of the dead
jagged pier
court and ansurek were harder than any fight this tier
frosty mango
Tindral really feels like one of the hardest raid fights ever
Imo
The original tuning was just absolutely brutal
But shadowlands in general was pretty intense mechanically - prob the “hardest” mechanical raids in my mind
shut summit
this tier was actually hard the first 2-4 weeks but was actually nerfed in time for most people
frosty mango
Ansurek I didn’t get to do but for a last boss it seemed healthy
shut summit
definitely not an issue now with the raid buff and all the power creep
jagged pier
talk about insta wipe raid mechanics every 30 secs, haldondrus was every 10 secs
frosty mango
Did you do crucible of storms?
jagged pier
nah
shut summit
yes
frosty mango
We tried for like 3 weeks, clocked it as impossible and gave up
cyan bronze
tindrall and fyrakk
Absolute correct answer
shut summit
crucible was somethin
frosty mango
Historically the only boss that almost broke me was hfc archimonde and original toes sha of fear
Different reasons but both equally misery in their own right
frosty mango
I never said *absolutely no shot* to a boss except this one
Ya we did the same
Original sha of fear before they added the midway save was just brutal, you wipe? Go back and do the first 8 minutes
Archimonde was just getting lasered by people and no way to save yourself
restive oak
is it typical for tanks to dunk last bomb on mythic gally?
jagged pier
yep
chilly brook
Just do a lot of dps and they don’t have to dunk it
Truuuuueee
sick sentinel
any new news for prot warrior for s3?
mighty valley
we didn't get giganerfed in the last round of patch notes
sick sentinel
ok
mighty valley
thane tier set got buffed a lot, might still not be enough
sick sentinel
well thane did need sum buffing
vocal cave
Ionizing sparks hit target 5 times in ST ?
toxic pewter
these hero talents are coming with us in the next 2 expansions right? they said they would be around for the worldsoul saga right
chilly brook
But perhaps we get more hero talents to choose from
neon elk
I think we will get somethig different , if we end up with like 4-5 different hero talents at end to choose from , it will be hella messy
proven stratus
yeah, no indication that they're gonna take them away
Hero Talents are intended to be evergreen like normal talents
chilly brook
I think we will get somethig different , if we end up with like 4-5 different...
I don’t think so tbh
They’re choice nodes essentially
The only way it would get super messy is if they do more tier sets like what they’re doing for this patch etc.
More ways for people to key into different aspects of specs that they like is only a W imo
neon elk
We are one of few specs that actualy has both hero trees viable , u realy think they can balance like 4-5 across everything ?
frosty mango
are you selling keys?
cerulean tusk
Nop, these guys are pushing
frosty mango
Because those people should be paying
cerulean tusk
Yep
frosty mango
Nop, these guys are pushing
Not their buttons obviously
cerulean tusk
To be fair, boosties on avg do more DPS than that
frosty mango
hooow did yaaa knooow
Damage values
cerulean tusk
nooo way
frosty mango
Top is really the only key with people under 5
1.9m is criminal please tell me he was like 640 lol
dusky canopy
this is enough alt tank 14 keys for now
This was a 14!?
cerulean tusk
I know, your socks got knocked straight off eh?
frosty mango
Are you eu?
frosty mango
I was gonna say jfc just invite me ill come help
cerulean tusk
frosty mango
That’s painful to even see lol
frosty mango
these are NA player level
I mean you’re not wrong 🤷
cerulean tusk
I think I prob should just skip 13-15, jump straight into 16s
Skip this cesspool of trapped players
(aslo, this run - helps me understand why ppl are so willing to pay for boosts)
neon elk
Has anybody tried icc id skip this reset ?
warm plinth
this is enough alt tank 14 keys for now
I'm terrible and I'd still be 2nd in that key on my war lol
warm plinth
Has anybody tried icc id skip this reset ?
It's not possible to id skip anymore. They broke it/fixed it back in SL
neon elk
It's not possible to id skip anymore. They broke it/fixed it back in SL
There is a new one, or at least was until last reset , im just not sure if i failed it this time or they fixed it , thats why im asking
warm plinth
I kinda doubt it. You can't change the difficulty at all inside the dungeon, and it just straight up won't let you in if you're not on the difficulty you're saved to now
It throws an error saying you're saved to bosses already or something like that
solid sun
@frosty mango do keys with me
south goblet
There is a new one, or at least was until last reset , im just not sure if i f...
ngl that new skip is a pia to do. Its not worth the time and brain power to make sure you do it right when you running like 20 alts. Its alot more chill and feels faster to just full clear it every time
tribal wharf
icc is easy dungeno to farm anyways
frosty mango
<@228540157333078016> do keys with me
I'll run keys with anyone if im free just ask me
tribal wharf
only 1 pain in the ass boss the 1 that needs healing but dont even need to do it
raid, whatever, before i get bitched at that its a raid
warm plinth
It's not about difficulty. It's long.
tribal wharf
yeah, cuz boss 4 RP goes long AF
warm plinth
When you're farming on dozens of toons, it's awful
tribal wharf
thats only reason , maybe a bit of walking
neon elk
ngl that new skip is a pia to do. Its not worth the time and brain power to make...
I agree its pain but its hella faster, all things considered it takes like 10 min, now way u have that time on full clear
south goblet
I agree its pain but its hella faster, all things considered it takes like 10 mi...
i have an avg clear time of 14 min. ill gladly spend 4 more min if it means i can brain off and watch netflic while i do it
warm plinth
I triggered LK end RP, got up, went to the bathroom, got a drink, sat back down, and still had to wait
it's stupid af
tribal wharf
that alone seems like self imposed hell, maybe 3 dozen paladins and do nothing but ICC
16 hours a day
no thx lol
south goblet
i have 20 warriors i do it on. Its not bad when you spec it for clear speed
neon elk
How do u even clear it in 14 mins , especialy as war
warm plinth
Can you use legion legendaries in there? Lemme get timeless stratagem going
neon elk
Ll rp alone is like 4mins
south goblet
yes i get to LK in about 10 min
tribal wharf
so like the sword from baron riverdare.... that makes you move faster..... and its gone...
they nerfed a bunch of shit about that like movespeed
warm plinth
14 mins seems about right
warm plinth
But I haven't timed myself
south goblet
and thers so many mobs you charge off cd
the only "slow" part for warrior clearing is running past dragon
neon elk
Isnt it faster to heal him tho
tribal wharf
there are a very small amount of items that will work on that boss but in general its fucked
for warrior
south goblet
yea im not doing professions on 20 warriors
neon elk
Any bandage works
south goblet
just to heal that dump boss
neon elk
Like 1 skill just learn it is enough
tribal wharf
they should make that boss REQUIRED to summon LK
south goblet
or, i can just run past it
tribal wharf
just for a middle finger to warrior
south goblet
but yea the like 8 ish min to make sure you do the skp right just isnt worth the effort
then it fails and your fked
and could have done another run already
tribal wharf
rogue too, i think, actually i did have that experience
me and buddy both are rogue we went to scholomance in 200X tbc
ghosts only take magic dmg, have to deal dmg with weapon to apply poison, GG
south goblet
ngl i sometimes wish tclap did nature dmg. Was always strange to me that its phys. Like i get why it is, but still
tribal wharf
i feel the need to call it 2000 whatever these days
since tbc, oh, classic
is t he response otherwise, like, vanilla was way different classic
warm plinth
but yea the like 8 ish min to make sure you do the skp right just isnt worth the...
How do you do the new one?
tidal scarab
I've killed lich King 43 times since the 1st. I've gotten 22 other mounts and invincible is my last one.
south goblet
How do you do the new one?
theres a reddit post about it if you google its like the top 3 posts. Its like an 8 step process and you dont know if you fked it or not till the end
warm plinth
Sick
tidal scarab
The skip is pretty easy, I've used it over 20 times this week
solid sun
What skip are we talking about
south goblet
the new icc one that only saves you like 5 min on a run
tidal scarab
I use an alt on another account whose cleared the whole raid except blood queen and lk. On the character who will kill on I kill h marrowgar, then I vote them to a group with my lockout char. Set difficulty to normal 25 man and go in to kill lanathel (lockout char leaves group once you are in raid) exit and reenter on heroic 25 and go kill lk.
Be careful if you go too fast you'll cap your lockouts
south goblet
oh yea well if you use another account its rly east
its just a pain when you doing it all with one account
tidal scarab
280k gold to save myself a ton of time this month worth it in my books
south goblet
the log on and off time is like 2 min alone
tidal scarab
If you don't want to use lockout cheese, there's a skip you can do with DH and evoker (apparently parasol too but I havnt managed it) where you clip through a wall after blood queen and float down to sindragosas platform. Saves about 4 minutes
south goblet
i also have yet to get it to work with parasol. I try it every time i run my warriors though
tidal scarab
I did manage it once with noggenfogger slowfall but I die every other time
south goblet
its just like the death skip using a prarasol in the Maw when going to SOD. I never can get that one to work either
tidal scarab
I use goblin glider for that one and get it 100% of the time
Extra forward momentum makes it ez
neon elk
I use an alt on another account whose cleared the whole raid except blood queen ...
Any idea why it says im already locked in hc even tho im trying to get into normal ( thats on LK kill char after killing first hc boss)
Havent had this issue before
south goblet
Any idea why it says im already locked in hc even tho im trying to get into n...
you messed up the steps somewhere. this is what i ment earlyer about how you dont even know if you did it right or not till its to late
tidal scarab
Any idea why it says im already locked in hc even tho im trying to get into n...
You have the other character who has the normal lockout as the leader when you try to enter?
neon elk
You have the other character who has the normal lockout as the leader when you t...
Yap, the offline one who has normal ID is still leader at that point
tidal scarab
Weird I havnt had that issue yet
You didn't accidentally kill normal marrowgar right?
neon elk
Nop was hc
Also never had this issue, and this was first time i did it after reset so thats why i was asking
Last teset it worked ine
tidal scarab
Strange
neon elk
Fine*
tidal scarab
I did 21 lks this week so it does still work
neon elk
But u used different acc right?
south goblet
Also never had this issue, and this was first time i did it after reset so tha...
if it makes you feel better i only had an 80%ish success rate with he skip when using 1 account
harsh trellis
Hey, I am having an old person moment is there anything at all that will take time off the cooldown for demolish?
shut summit
harsh trellis
thank you
bleak breach
Now this is going to be the most stupid question you’ve ever heard, but what is the silence we have that people keep talking about?
shut summit
warm plinth
Should be noted that it's not a silence.
It's an aoe interrupt, which is not the same thing
bleak breach
Rip the dream I knew it was something obvious I was missing lol
south goblet
yea the brown tide will never over take the purple tsunami
keen leaf
is the thane 4 pc good next tier too? I see people talking alot about collosus
jagged gust
not yet
nocturne spindle
you can aoe interrupt gallywix phase 2 ads on mythic right
bleak breach
Yes
naive panther
am I wrong in thinking tank dps on ptr is garbage? I haven't got on but looking at youtube vids tanking doing 40-45% of number one dps
grim pilot
south goblet
people are competent on ptr and per sim tank should be about 50% the dmg of a dps
so its more more that tanks are where they should be vs on live where good tanks run with bad dps
also some dps are busted atm on ptr
frosty mango
am I wrong in thinking tank dps on ptr is garbage? I haven't got on but looking ...
Relative to what
IMO tank dps in the ptr feels pretty good
naive panther
yeah just relative to a good dps in higher keys
like on live vdh damage ratio to dps is around that lower 45-50% range depending on key, whereas war can be closer to 50-60. I just prefer tanks in the 60-70% range
chilly brook
@dusky canopy get me a phys comp
dusky canopy
deep steppe
Bois, we finally did the dang thing. Thanks for the help this season ❤️
warm plinth
Bois, we finally did the dang thing. Thanks for the help this season ❤️
Congratulations!!!
ionic fern
Gratz.
fathom meteor
Prot warr or brew monk, what’s the play
warm plinth
The one you have more fun on
ionic nimbus
Prot warr or brew monk, what’s the play
Wait for the number tunings
jagged gust
I regret making a pandaren monk, pandarens creep me out and its dissuading me from touching the toon