protection

[strong forum]

Wowee

Buffing that 15k hit to do 22.5k

[vocal cave]

20% ap is less than though as nails prebuff

The set works but does no damage and proc too rarely in aoe and almost never in st

[stone tundra]

The idea is fine, but the execution is meh

[strong forum]

Thane set feels like it comes from a diff dev than colossus

Colossus with the 20% dmg, crit amps, 100% dmg increase on crit

And thane with a

[tight hinge]

thane tier is currently so bad it actually gaslights you into thinking you're misreading the numbers on ptr. it's wild lol

[strong forum]

Don't worry, most trinkets make the think the same

Many trinkets literally worse than last expansion ones

[solid sun]

Well we have tome and pacemaker and house and bombsuit and mud

We’re fine in the trinket department rn

[strong forum]

Right

3 trinkets that grant stats

Bombsuit which is good

And mud is just a worse bombsuit

Meanwhile in DF you had trinkets that did actual dmg

[delicate nebula]

is the absence of spell block gonna be a problem?

[strong forum]

Comes down to encounter design

[jagged pier]

time will tell, they could not remove it and then stop it working on everything so

[strong forum]

By itself, no it's not a problem, the problem appears when you get overrun by magic hits so frequently you can't cover them with other cd rotations

Aka halls of atonement or dawnbreaker

In their previous incarnations

Dunno if they will get fixed/changed

But you do need to have tighter cd plans

[frosty mango]

I’m pretty sure dawnbreaker first boss won’t be possible as is at high levels as prot war without external

[strong forum]

With double wall it might be

[jagged pier]

dont want warrior to be too hard to play, now u need to manage CDs even more carefully

[strong forum]

Since in s1 we didn't play double wall

[frosty mango]

The incidence of the tank buster is too frequent I think unless you played impenetrable wall

[strong forum]

Yeh but sw is now shorter CD

• double wall, which gives you leeway

[nocturne spindle]

Yea I keep unironically saying impenetrable wall tier 🙂

[strong forum]

Nah imp wall is dead

[nocturne spindle]

I will carry this crusade

[strong forum]

The extra 60sec CD defenders aegis has

[jagged pier]

it was dead the moment the rage gen got taken from it

[frosty mango]

That’s really the only major issue I see the loss of spell block causing as like a hard wipe

[strong forum]

Is just too powerful

[frosty mango]

Definitely some other places where it will suck without it

[strong forum]

Imp wall itself is dead cuz a) aegis got buffed b) rage gen gone

You won't get more frequent sws anymore

[mellow bridge]

surely encounter design will be changed accordingly

[nocturne spindle]

It was like a shield wall every 30 seconds with new haste levels

I think it might be slotted in for specific dungeon bosses

[strong forum]

Yeaaahh nah

You're not reaching 30s pal

[frosty mango]

Haste dr is not real why you gotta kill his dream

[strong forum]

That's not the issue

The issue is gcd economy and real time passing

You can only fit so many gcds

Into a "30sec" window

The shorter your window becomes

The less effective additional cdr will be

Cuz it's a dynamic cd

That's why 40-45sec is as short as its ever gonna get

Unless you can literally spam SS+IP every single global

You won't get a CD lower than that

To get 3.5min cd SW with imp wall down to 30s real time cd, you'd need (let me calc a bit)

[frosty mango]

My prediction is we see thane tier set get buffed pretty heavily, we end up playing a thane bleed build with fbv, and then shortly into the patch they nerf it

[tight hinge]

the tier set would be a bit more fun if it reset the cd on thunder blast when it granted a charge

[frosty mango]

I have no real data for this other than that’s the most illogical progression I can think of therefore it will for sure be what happens

[strong forum]

You'd need to spend 1000 rage, and get 13 shield slam hits

In the span of 30 seconds

To get to a 30sec CD

Which is insane amounts

[kind urchin]

That would be an astronomically low chance to get that many procs.

[strong forum]

Meanwhile with defenders aegis you only need to spend 600 rage in 1 min to get to a 1min cd on sw

[frosty mango]

Gcd floor is .75 right?

[strong forum]

Yeah

[frosty mango]

So max gcds/30s is 40

Plus you have to factor in latency and spell queue so you’re probs looking at 38, no shot you’d ever be able to do it lol

[strong forum]

Of which 13 have to be SS + 1000 rage, which is impossible amounts of rage

It's possible to get more SS in that window

But the rage part is the limiting factor

1k rage/min is SL levels of rage

2k rage in 1min is just

[frosty mango]

How does bloodsurge and pull size factor in here

[strong forum]

Bloodsurge is sqrt now

Past 5

So at 5 targets it generates the most rage per target

After that it drops

And meteors at 20

(everything meteors at 20)

Except dot dmg

[frosty mango]

So you’re saying the ideal pull size for warrior is 20

Got it.

[strong forum]

For maximum rage gen

Yes

[frosty mango]

Break out mdt we got some new routes to write boys

[nocturne spindle]

I mean if bsv stays like this

Will be fun pull sizes for us

Fuck them dps living

[strong forum]

No clue

[round cliff]

why 20 specifically

[strong forum]

That's just how the game is coded

[solid sun]

What does the term meteor mean in this context

[frosty mango]

Drops off sharply

Craters

[strong forum]

Stops doing more dmg even if you add more targets

Only splits

[solid sun]

I see

[strong forum]

So you do 20k dmg on 20 targets

And still only 20k dmg on 40 target

But every single target will only be hit half as hard

As on the 20

That's generally how all spells in wow are coded (iirc)

20 is the soft cap

For that specific ability in itself

However this does not mean every single class stops doing more dmg even if you add more targets

Cuz resource Generation and dots are still a thing

[round cliff]

what abt uhdk wounds

[strong forum]

Dots are all (?) uncapped

[strong forum]

That's quadratic scaling

That's a diff thing

Also, a dot

Lotta caveats come in once you add more things than the singular spell in a vacuum

[round cliff]

all equals out to brown class bad

so w/e

[strong forum]

That's the bottom line yeah

[solid sun]

Everytime I’ve come here since the notes have been revealed about what’s going on with tier sets and spec changes, our future looks more doom and less goon

[strong forum]

Don't worry

It's always only doom if you listen to the broad spectrum

Every single PTR

Every single change

Without Benchmarks, logs and Sims

People will more quickly flock to the negative

It's the Benchmarks and logs that then properly shows the actual state

Logs from people who can actually play

[kind urchin]

It's reducing for every target past 5 for us anyways.

[strong forum]

You need a whole big ass data set before you can legitimately doom a class

Unless is ofc blatantly obvious

Like thane tierset

[frosty mango]

This is why I always say feedback for feel

Yes also for tuning but

Blizz can and will tune, they always do

[strong forum]

Feel absolutely matters

Feel is why I prefer diablo to poe

[frosty mango]

If it feels like shit to play they are highly unlikely to change it once it’s live

[strong forum]

Feel is why wow feels superior to every other mmo

Cuz they care about how shit feels

[kind urchin]

Exactly

[nocturne spindle]

They don't care how rogue feels

🙂

[frosty mango]

Wow feels better than every other mmo because they have vastly superior netcode 🙃

[strong forum]

Good, fuck rogue

[frosty mango]

FFXIV 3s server tick 🐌

[kind urchin]

Only other mmo I enjoy is FFXIV. And even it's just a bit less.

[frosty mango]

Whoever designed the wow netcode was an absolute genius and is 100% responsible for the long term success of the game imo

[strong forum]

Doesn't help that half the animation feel like a video is being played and not smooth at all, standing in the air animations when you jump during a cast, snapping animations and not fluid

[nocturne spindle]

I quit ff cause I hated the circle is gone but the ability hasn't gone off yet so you die from 15 feet away

[round cliff]

unless ur monk

[nocturne spindle]

Stupidest shit

[round cliff]

and ur sound design is ass

[strong forum]

It's so weird that animations don't matter, only the circles

[kind urchin]

Only saving grace of FF is the off gcd abilities to press between the eternally long gcd.

[round cliff]

id rather just have a short gcd

:3

but seriously why does monk still look/sound like a classic era class
it hasn't gotten any upgrades in that field since it RELEASED

[frosty mango]

FFXIV is hard locked bc of their netcode and that’s why I say wow is insane when you consider how far ahead wow has always been in that realm

[round cliff]

keg smash animation is still wonky, fists of fury is still the most wet noodle sounding ability in the game

[warm plinth]

Clearly you've never played feral druid

[frosty mango]

Monk has whirling dragon punch which is the most egregious animation in the history of wow

[round cliff]

swipe feels better than fists of fury to press

don't @ me

[round cliff]

ok ill defend wdp i love that thing

[warm plinth]

Idk i mained ww monk from mop to legion and never had an issue with either wdp or fof

[kind urchin]

Well FF had to do things to make it cross platform. They had to give enough time for people playing with a controller to press the sequence of buttons to use their next spell.

[warm plinth]

I enjoy wdp more but fof is okay

[frosty mango]

It’s worse at the high end when you basically need to play to your latency and resolve every mechanic like half a second sooner

Or some jobs where you just can’t do max dps bc of animation locks and server tick

[round cliff]

"barrage of punches" be like
thwap
thwap
thwap
thwap
thwap

[frosty mango]

It will be the downfall of the game lol

[frosty mango]

Wdp locks you in place for a gcd

That is awful

Why?

[round cliff]

because don't stand in swirlies while pressing it dumbo

skill check

[warm plinth]

I mained monk for a long time and I never once died to wdp

[round cliff]

the same kind of people who think wdp freezing u in place is bad are the same people who think sprocketmonger is mechanical vomit

tbh

[kind urchin]

What's wrong with Sprocketmonger?

[round cliff]

nothing!

good fight

[warm plinth]

Even if you do press it and a swirly appears, swirlies rarely connect that fast. Remember monk has a 1 sec gcd

[kind urchin]

I enjoy that fight

[warm plinth]

Speaking of swirlies connecting, I realized im getting old when I started bitching that the top miniboss whirlwind doesnt give you enough time to react

That mechanic stresses me out

[frosty mango]

Warrior problem imo

Don’t stand under the miniboss, they have a generous hitbox lol

[round cliff]

do u not have timers for it?

u should

also ur playing prot just tank it LMAO

healer problem

[frosty mango]

Or just don’t move out

Yea

[round cliff]

i don't move for shit in that section of the dungeon

not even the boss

[warm plinth]

I dont stand under the miniboss. I dont get hit by it; I just think it doesnt give you much time is all

[frosty mango]

I don’t move out on the workshop dog boss either and healers get really upset

[burnt canopy]

Is one button combo fine for tank? My thought is I can mash button for damage and then be able to do defensive stuff

[frosty mango]

No

Well I guess it depends on how you define “fine” but generally speaking no - it’s terrible for tanks

For example (unless they fixed it) it will use rend on single target and not thunderclap, or it will send your demolish when avatar has 1s left on the cooldown

[jagged pier]

i mean it will involve for us at least sending some defensive resources so its a big fat no, if u are doing any serious content

[nocturne spindle]

does it really rend

big oof

[strong forum]

absolutely not

[frosty mango]

It did when it first came out

Not sure if it still does

[strong forum]

it doesnt use shield charge or ravager

or avatar

or demo shout

[jagged pier]

im pretty sure mwahi said it didnt use spear / roar ither at one point

[strong forum]

wait nvm it does use ravager first

[nocturne spindle]

it uses roar

just checked

[strong forum]

but not avatar demo or sc

is the 1 button assist thing already live?

[jagged pier]

yer

[nocturne spindle]

it also is prioritizing clap over revenge

[strong forum]

(i aint logged onto retail in 3 months)

[jagged pier]

came with .7

[strong forum]

oooh

[warm plinth]

It's really weird that they said it wouldn't use "major cooldowns" but then for a lot of specs it definitely has a weird definition of what constitutes a major cooldown.

[cyan bronze]

storm elemental

it uses

[warm plinth]

Recuperate came with .1.7 too and I don't even remember reading that in the patch notes. Very odd.

Very niche thing anyway but still thought it was weird I didn't hear about it until.yesterday

[strong forum]

1.7. definitely didnt come with my will to login

[nocturne spindle]

damage breakdown of it

ay lmao

[jagged pier]

i mean as i keep saying its really good for casuals but meh on content for raiders/ m+ers

[strong forum]

im surprised that its only a 20% dmg loss

[warm plinth]

If you don't know, everyone now has a general spell that you can channel for 10 seconds with no cooldown. Heals you for 50% max hp over the 10 seconds. Only usable outside combat

[strong forum]

to not use half of your abilities

[frosty mango]

It’s way more in actual content

[strong forum]

yeah

[jagged pier]

tbf even if it was perfect u still wouldnt use it because of the gcd increase so u would just be effected at getting SW and avatar back etc

[warm plinth]

Stacks with mage food but sadly does not regenerate mana which would probably be a lot more universally useful

[strong forum]

oh right

the gcd penalty

[warm plinth]

The assisted highlight seems quite good for some specs

For what it is

[frosty mango]

Don’t worry next expansion they’re introducing “simplified play assist” and what it does isn’t removes all of your abilities and it gives you three buttons: “tank” “heal” “dps” and you just have to press the one associated to your role.

Don’t worry if you’re confused what your role is, it highlights the button for you

[warm plinth]

But i guess it's basically just in-game hekili anyway

[round cliff]

play 1.7.10 (minecraft (gregtech new horizons))

with me

:3

[jagged pier]

someones already my hekilli for the new onebutton stuff with use of cds better rotations and no gcd penalty

[cyan bronze]

no

absolutely not again

getting to late IV was a journey

[strong forum]

tomorrow new d4 season starts

[strong forum]

are you hot egirl

[torn gulch]

OMEGALUL

[frosty mango]

Hekili is solid for warrior

[round cliff]

yea in minecraft

[frosty mango]

We got the good apl

Some classes got a poopy apl Hekili not solid

[strong forum]

ive played every season so far

[frosty mango]

Moral of the story, play warrior

[torn gulch]

i'll rather play grim dawn with a 20 years old engine than diablo4

[strong forum]

unlucky

[torn gulch]

it's that bad of an arpg in my opinion

[frosty mango]

Just play last epoch

Better than d4

[strong forum]

nah last epoch ugly

[torn gulch]

i do play last epoch it's decent

[frosty mango]

poe2 was supposed to be the new goat but they ruined it

[torn gulch]

i like homebrewing builds in there

[mortal cypress]

i found that didnt have enough content....i got to the end game superfast then everyting is level 50+

[strong forum]

fwiw i enjoy poe2 a good chunk more than poe1

[frosty mango]

Tried to make it slow but no one likes slow, give us zoom

[torn gulch]

still early i will reserve judgement in poe2 when 1.0 launches

[cyan bronze]

@round cliff what tier did you get to in gtnh

[round cliff]

i just started w a friend lol

[frosty mango]

I really enjoyed poe2 campaign but then I hit endgame and basically everything they innovated disappeared

[round cliff]

pre-steam rn

[strong forum]

campaign sucked ass

[cyan bronze]

my condolences

[strong forum]

so much

[round cliff]

im going into it expecting suffering

[frosty mango]

lol you didn’t enjoy the parry/dodge mech?

[mortal cypress]

WHO BOUGHT A SWITHC 2???

[strong forum]

campaign is a bit too long

[mortal cypress]

sorry caps

[cyan bronze]

it won’t be enough

[round cliff]

you underestimate my resolve

or maybe i underestimate Greg

[cyan bronze]

you underestimate nh

[cyan bronze]

MV is

terrible

like so bad

[round cliff]

they give u creative flying in ur base in mv next update tho

that fixes it!

[mortal cypress]

Greg looks friendly

[cyan bronze]

that’s a good change tbh

but

alum+benzene

is terrorism

I hated

[round cliff]

i LOVE benzene

like irl

[cyan bronze]

I hated benzene

It was meta when I played

[small steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/greglostresort-lostresort-greghaywood-gif-25042066

[cyan bronze]

Ru playing 2 stack nh?

[karmic plinth]

ME

[small steeple]

does a steam deck count?

[round cliff]

yea

[torn gulch]

steam deck the best nintendo device

[round cliff]

i have a switch 2

[mortal cypress]

I cant get past 100CC cup in Mario Kart

[frosty mango]

My 11 year old already beat all that

I asked her for advice for you and she said “don’t be old”

Looks like you’re cooked bro

[round cliff]

old..

[torn gulch]

OOF

that hurts

[mortal cypress]

[round cliff]

i didn't even play 100 i just played everything on 150 then went to online

im an elo goblin

[mortal cypress]

ive played every mario kart regardless of platform since the SNES original

I used to be pretty good

i suck at the wall/rail riding thing, it feels awkward/unnature to me

unnatural

[round cliff]

hey what is this veggie it almost tastes like a tiny onion

[round cliff]

that's my favorite part

[mortal cypress]

it makes me angry

[round cliff]

wow gamers once again cannot handle childrens game mechanics ..

happened with a guildie of mine who got filtered by the first monster in monster hunter wilds

[mortal cypress]

I completed Elden Ring if that counts

[strong forum]

i killed young radahn pre-nerf

in 14 attempts

[round cliff]

tf you mean young radahn

do u mean promised consort

[strong forum]

uhoh

yeah

[strong forum]

AINTNOWAY

[mortal cypress]

i killed a bear and also went to a harry potter school

[round cliff]

bro consistently parses in raid btw

[jagged pier]

thats cap

[round cliff]

he BEAT it but it took him ages

and he just dropped game after

[strong forum]

bruh

[round cliff]

wow players r just bad at other games

i stg

[jagged pier]

bruh

[strong forum]

"i wasnt instantly good at this game, so the game sucks"

[jagged pier]

thats not a wow player thing, a lot of ppl are like that

[round cliff]

tbf chatacabra is about as hard as mythic raid

so i get it

[strong forum]

luckily, im good at everything

[round cliff]

yea same

[jagged pier]

[round cliff]

idk why people aren't just good at everything ..

[jagged pier]

u done lies of P dlc yet, the last boss is

[strong forum]

i aint touched lies of p

[round cliff]

i wanna play the dlc but i played it on gamepass not expecting it to get dlc

[strong forum]

only souls game i played was elden ring

[round cliff]

now it has dlc and isn't on gamepass

:(

[jagged pier]

they nerfed most of the game when dlc came out

[strong forum]

and elden ring is far from what i was promised in terms of difficulty

[round cliff]

play nioh 2

[strong forum]

mainly cuz clowns like to self impose rules on them

to then pretend the game is hard

[jagged pier]

yer

[round cliff]

were u one of those magic gooners

[strong forum]

sir

https://tenor.com/view/breaking-bad-breaking-bad-meme-breaking-bad-memes-walter-white-walter-white-meme-gif-7891531653485317579

[jagged pier]

i played elden ring after the mimic nerf so at least i had a good time

[round cliff]

ive never used a summon

im the clown with the rules

[strong forum]

L take

mimic faith str big bonk stick

now THATS gameplay

[round cliff]

it's more fun to fight bosses when they're focused on me

[strong forum]

completely SHITSTOMP every boss

[jagged pier]

I dont tend to use summons ither tbh but thats not an imposed rule i have

[strong forum]

6 attempts malenia

[jagged pier]

i just dont usually have the stats

[strong forum]

14 attempts consort

[round cliff]

don't brag about beating game on ez mode SMH SMH

[strong forum]

STOMP

[round cliff]

like saying u beat touhou on easy and r wondering why people think the games are hard

casul

[jagged pier]

tbh if i tried to minic melania when i did it she would have just healed to full on hitting the mimic

[strong forum]

BONK

[mortal cypress]

Sekiro is a much better game, especially combat wise, but i kept getting lost.....did finish it though

[strong forum]

cant heal if she cant make a single move

cuz you use a long ass colossal sword

and stagger her on every hit

cant fault me for finding the solution to the problem

[round cliff]

id love to see nome try a REAL difficult soulslike

play nioh 2 coward

[jagged pier]

i was close to that just not enough

[strong forum]

yeah some REAL difficulty

[round cliff]

or sekiro! play sekiro

[strong forum]

SORRY that i find a SOLUTION to the PROBLEM so i STOMP

[round cliff]

bro is flexing on mythic players cuz he finished a follower dungeon

[strong forum]

bitch we fought the same boss

you just chose to be weak

and i chose to be strong

[round cliff]

yea so im better

qed

play sekiro

[strong forum]

nah im good

[jagged pier]

sekiro is just parry tho

[strong forum]

im playing warframe

sekiro is literally just parry bro

[jagged pier]

so boring parry parry parry

[round cliff]

go solo an eidolon idk

[strong forum]

eidolon are dawgshit

worst content in the game

[jagged pier]

i solod eidolons when they were new content

[strong forum]

luckily completely obsolete now

[round cliff]

is there a better way to get arcane energize

[strong forum]

cuz can farm all eidolon arcanes in 5hrs from new event

thank FUCK

yeah

new event you can buy ALL eidolon arcanes

[round cliff]

eidolon solo when they were new was a rubico prime check tbh

if u had a built rubico prime gg

[strong forum]

arcane energize dropped to 13p

[round cliff]

waauw

still not going back to warframe tho

im free

[strong forum]

is down to 10p actually

[round cliff]

ill wait for soulframe

[distant meadow]

any news on how prot will be in 11.2? or is it still too early to tell?

[strong forum]

we are still on ptr cycle 1

[jagged pier]

have 4k plat, still not going back just dont have the bug to play frame atm

[round cliff]

bad

reroll

[strong forum]

so everything is TBD

[round cliff]

unviable tank

[strong forum]

prot is looking really solid tho from what im being told

especially for raid

[distant meadow]

it feels great. and i dig that we are going into a more execute style build. at least i think thats what we will be doing

[strong forum]

it doesnt cost you an arm and a leg anymore yeah

it was always a thing

[round cliff]

execute won't catch on

[distant meadow]

and it cleaves!

[strong forum]

but now its more accessible

[round cliff]

build dead on arrival

[strong forum]

yeah the cleave part is gigantic

[jagged pier]

it cleaves but no jugg stacking

[strong forum]

i wonder how long it will stay before a) arms will also get it b) we lose it again

[distant meadow]

no kidding

[round cliff]

arms has ss zzzzz

[strong forum]

SS is awesome

[distant meadow]

ss?

[strong forum]

legit one of my fav abilities in the game

sweeping strikes

[distant meadow]

ahhh

[round cliff]

SS does what other melee do passively while only affecting 1 other target and being on the gcd

y

[strong forum]

🙂

[distant meadow]

between mountain thane and colossus imo thane felt better to play

[strong forum]

thats the bullshit part of the game

thane is easier to play and faster

[distant meadow]

truth. colossus felt clunky though

on live it feels fine. on ptr it didnt feel good

[strong forum]

we lose battering ram and tierset

so thats a huge chunk of rage gen

however

[distant meadow]

i was worried about that. so i switched to heavy reprocussions and i didnt have a problem with uptime on block

[strong forum]

you are also missing skyfury buff

in real world you will always have it

[round cliff]

not in m+

[strong forum]

if youre serious, you do

[round cliff]

wowhead said shaman isn't meta

so i don't

[nocturne spindle]

i mean

[strong forum]

thats why every offmeta team is running rsham

[nocturne spindle]

im pretty sure ptr nerds are saying shaman goated

[distant meadow]

yea if rsham isnt meta for 11.2 ill be shocked

[nocturne spindle]

what

no enhance is apparently the goat spec rn

[round cliff]

flame shocked

hahahahahahahaha

[distant meadow]

:0

🙂

[nocturne spindle]

boomie super over tuned

and resto druid super strong

so one of those two maybe

[slim dove]

boomie will get wacked.

as will rdruid ws tier

[nocturne spindle]

yea but boomie could get whacked and still be the new prio spec

it has that much whacking room

[slim dove]

depends entirely how blizzard wacks boomie

the tier is also giga degen gameplay and turns the spec into a 3min which is pretty suss

[nocturne spindle]

i mean its still a combined prio 3 min and generic uncapped dotting

which may be kinda goated

[slim dove]

sure

so it depends on how blizz decides to nerf boomie

but knowing trends its just gonna be another wizard season anyways so

[nocturne spindle]

MM and BM also super overtuned though

it could be squishy class galore plus disc again

who knows

[slim dove]

really doubt mm gets through ptr anywhere close to this powerful

1min trueshot windows are definitely not the intended design goal

[nocturne spindle]

i can dream of MM enhance DH dps meta

hyugeee battleshout

[slim dove]

ill dream of anything that removes vdh and wizards from meta

[frosty mango]

Warrior will never be dps meta

Ever

lol

[round cliff]

guys i need gacha therapy

who here is a gacha gamer

[frosty mango]

I guess maybe if it was doing like 20% more dps than other classes it might be meta

But I doubt

It would have to be a massive damage delta for it to be meta

We got a shot at tank meta tho

[round cliff]

but no spell block

we're dead on arrival

gg

no spell block, no mob control outside shockwave

bottom 1 potentially

[solid sun]

So anyways

[tight hinge]

are we sand bagging to avoid ptr nerfs and this is a talking point? i'm down

[nocturne spindle]

35% spell reflect will be enough

[frosty mango]

No it won’t

We’ll be dying left and right. Also our damage is terrible and they need to buff revenge

Also we need skull banner

And lust. Thanks blizz, get on it.

(That’s sarcasm if it wasn’t obvious)

[nocturne spindle]

unironic give us a lust still

🙂

[solid sun]

Either I need a snickers or our shitposting quality has fallen off a cliff

[round cliff]

you joke, but they could give us all this and we'd still be behind vdh

NOT JOKING

[mighty valley]

we were more highly picked than vdh ONE SEASON ago lmao

[frosty mango]

It has

[frosty mango]

Nah if we had all that we would be meta

100%

[mighty valley]

also s1's paladin dominance was way more overwhelming than vdh's current reign

[frosty mango]

Especially in a tier where stats are so insanely inflated a crit scaling banner would be obscene

We’d be meta because of that alone lol

Mm hunter is already at 100% effective crit

[slim dove]

uncap fury and dont nerf it based on heroic week 1

[mellow bridge]

people still think vdh is the same beast it was in df

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-duck-gif-1363576254939741235

[mighty valley]

even then, vdh didn't get to be part of the most overbearing god comp of the expansion

losers

[solid sun]

Idk the height of df vdh is pretty strong

Def a contender for strongest tank iteration of the m+ era I’d imagine

[shut summit]

i'd wager it was the strongest since title has been added, maybe bdk in SL s3/s4 was close

but the vdh meta felt way more oppressive for me personally

[frosty mango]

Double sigils was nuts

[mellow bridge]

bdk was numerically prolly the most broken one while vdh had the best overall package

[shut summit]

it was the whole package for vdh ye

[mellow bridge]

i still remember playing vdh in sl s3

and bdk doing literally 100% more ST dps than me

and taking close to 4-5 keylvls less dmg

that was fine

[round cliff]

when will brm be meta

[delicate nebula]

when was the last time prot war being broken? DF s1?

[frosty mango]

The next time they buff stagger

Then it will be unmeta’d shortly after when it gets blanket nerfed

[round cliff]

when will that be 🔮

[frosty mango]

Such is bm

Usually beginning of expansions

[shut summit]

i don't remember pwar being broken, it's typically block being strong at start of xpacs and people freaking out

end of bfa most recent thing i can think of

[solid sun]

Emerald Nightmare pwar was effectively immortal until it got nerfed. Does that count

[frosty mango]

Our damage was kinda broken at the start of this season

[shut summit]

we were perfect

[frosty mango]

If they hadn’t nerfed revenge we’d def be seeing 4.5m overalls on the reg lol

[frosty mango]

[shut summit]

i still maintain we shouldn't have been touched and other tanks brought up, when you look at overalls now for DPS vs tanks it's obvious it's a problem again

which is why they had to buff threat (again)

[solid sun]

I don’t think I usually hit 3m overalls in my 14s and 15s. I wonder if that’s me sucking at pressing buttons or pulling too conservatively

[solid sun]

When tanks do too much damage dps players complain en masse.

“Too much”

[delicate nebula]

we are one of those tanks scale extremely well with target count goes up right? i think if you pull more aggressively the damege will go up natrually

[shut summit]

yea dps are the main characters

[solid sun]

You guys like you and Roid put my damage to shame

And even I have made pug dps players mad with my damage

They’d end up in a padded room grouped up with dudes like yall

[frosty mango]

Nah

Damage begets damage

I think you would be surprised to see how much your overall rises if you’re in a group with people doing 5m overall

[frosty mango]

I agree but also disagree, the revenge nerf was warranted but also yes other tanks should have been buffed

[pallid quiver]

your overall can also increase if the people you're playing with can't aoe for shit, but they blast bosses down real fast

It wouldn't be as much as if everything just exploded, but it's more than your standard pug do no damage at all experience, since more of your time is spent in AOE which has a higher damage threshold than ST

[mighty valley]

i think we've been unlucky that we've been perceived as strongest at the start of the past two expansions, when balance is a little more trigger happy

[shut summit]

yea our eternal struggle

block strong early, looks op, gets toned down, band-aid buffs for remainder of xpac

rinse and repeat

[frosty mango]

Then people start doing keys with actual mechanics and realize control matters and warrior gets binned

[shut summit]

spellbreaker is absolute hot garbage though, did a full normal run of the raid just to see

[frosty mango]

Because we are perceived as “no utility” when in reality prot has answers for most mechs

[shut summit]

not surprised but still funny to see in action

[solid sun]

If they changed pwar to not crit block anymore and not have 100% block would that put us in a healthier spot? Kinda like how I guess the idea behind reworking death strike for dks was to make their spec healthier or easier to tune

[frosty mango]

lol was it as bad as it was for me? It did effectively zero

[mighty valley]

i'm just pretending spellbreaker says "take 4% less periodic magic damage"

[frosty mango]

I don’t think so, I think it would just make us value mastery more and maybe use more ignore pain

They would need to redesign the entire spec to not work around shield block

[nocturne spindle]

yea we just need way more default mitigation somehow

if they take away block like that

[mighty valley]

they'd have to replace our mastery. and if they replaced it with something totally busted? then that sounds healthy

[frosty mango]

But imo nothing would functionally change, block would be a byproduct of mastery and we would shift to looking at IP uptime as our active mit

We would play the same as we do now, just be worse

[round cliff]

why wouldn't u want block to be the focus

i love block

[solid sun]

Block is hard for them to design around apparently

And when they give a mob an unblockable ability it ruins us

[strong forum]

thats a copout answer

[mighty valley]

we did live through the "you don't have 100% block uptime" life in shadowlands s1. it was, uh, not beloved

[solid sun]

Why is it a cop out

It seems like that’s just how it is

You can tell by the way it is

[frosty mango]

Block is hard to tune imo because they have to account for your average player getting hit in the back a lot - so if they tune it too high for the masses, it becomes insanely strong for optimal play. If they tune around optimal play it becomes kinda rough for the average player…..how do they solve for that? I think right now the tuning lever is crit block but if they changed the design entirely but left block in….im not sure it would be so simple

I would absolutely love a block based ignore pain mechanic where we focused on building absorb shields via ignore pain as our active mitigation and block took a back seat to that - and the skill expression was the management of rage to effectively smooth inbound damage, and the trade off being getting the most damage out of your rage without dying

But I think that could turn into a “healers adjust” situation

[solid sun]

F ‘em

Send it

[nocturne spindle]

is anyone doing trinket testing

do we have to mythic raid for huge deeps

[solid sun]

No

Pacemaker and sac and tome are all back

[nocturne spindle]

but i mean

spymasters before demolish

[ocean valley]

how yall feeling for 11.2

[solid sun]

I have no feelings

If I like something too much rn it will be nerfed

If I hate something too much rn it will be buffed

[pallid quiver]

transmog neat 🙂

[solid sun]

The new dungeon is pretty

Tazavesh has a top shelf aesthetic

Kyveza is coming back

I liked her

[frosty mango]

The nether prism will be a contender I think

But it’ll be sacbrood I’m sure as a lock

Every other trinket I tested seemed to not be great

They do be tuning tho

[solid sun]

Gonna live inside sac prison

For eternity

Wiping to the last boss as punishment for my sins

[tight hinge]

this one is very strong

[solid sun]

I hate trying to stay in combat

[strong forum]

doesnt look very strong

[tight hinge]

doesnt look like it no but you'll see it on almost all streams right now and it adds up fast

[strong forum]

ah the metric is if streamers use it

[tight hinge]

i hate it too but it inspired me to try it and its good but boring

[solid sun]

That’s like less than half a million every 15 seconds at max stacks correct?

[strong forum]

i fail to see

how a 1.5mil shield

is supposed to be strong

[nocturne spindle]

is it half a mil every 15?

or 1.5 mil every 15?

[solid sun]

Idk dude how do you math this

[tight hinge]

i'm a degenerate, the healing is useless

the damage is solid

[solid sun]

Do you just take the bass and multiply it by 2.5 for 150%

[strong forum]

how often does itr proc

[frosty mango]

It didn’t seem particularly strong to me - in my experience streamers tend to gauge power by whether not not something shows up on a dps meter

[daring narwhal]

i believe it's more for the damage part than shield, seems to be ~10% overall dps with 15 stacks on pull (kira vid)

[tight hinge]

^

its the damage

[strong forum]

ah ok

[nocturne spindle]

yea if its litterally 1.5m every 15 seconds like clockwork

thats not bad

[tight hinge]

just soloing trash pulls for 2 min

[ocean valley]

is that the trink?

[strong forum]

260k dps seems wildly overtuned

[ocean valley]

in continous combat?

[tight hinge]

yep

[strong forum]

thatll be nerfed

dont worry

🙂

[nocturne spindle]

i mean it is kezan esque

[frosty mango]

Netherpris gives nearly 50k str on full proc

[nocturne spindle]

i could see it being good if you can chain tm

[tight hinge]

yeah i would be shocked if it stays at this

[frosty mango]

Insane burst potential

[strong forum]

dont worry

every dmg trinket

will be reduced to shit agian

like always

[solid sun]

Nome needs a snickers

[strong forum]

name a trinket that stayed the same

[frosty mango]

We don’t want you to have borrowed power.

Also here’s a cool new artifact cloak

[strong forum]

after ptr

[nocturne spindle]

tbh

the cloak is ass anyway

[frosty mango]

Aldari sigil of concordance

[nocturne spindle]

if it doesnt interact with the dungeon

[daring narwhal]

yeah, might be borrowed power for dps, but for tanks it's kinda useless tbh

[nocturne spindle]

take a regular cloak for stats ayy lmao

[solid sun]

Idk I don’t deep dive the trinkets. I just read your trinket page and equip what you recommended :)

Unless it’s from m raid

[frosty mango]

Speaking of that, nome can you do a video where you rank tanks in a tier list live

Just put prot warrior at S

[chilly brook]

Tome

[nocturne spindle]

wasnt tome even more overtuned than it is now

[frosty mango]

I don’t think so

[strong forum]

it was

[chilly brook]

Also fairly certain that Spymasters just stayed giga

[strong forum]

they nerfed it by 15%

in s2

[chilly brook]

So giga it needed 3 nerfs going into the next season

[strong forum]

we're tanks

we dont get to haven ice things

[chilly brook]

It’s ok we get egg sack back

[nocturne spindle]

i cant decide what im less excited for

trying to find a mythic guild that will clear fast

[sharp merlin]

Am I right in thinking Hateful Strike from Gorechop, only needs Shield Block up?

[nocturne spindle]

or rolling for myth track trinkets in vault

[strong forum]

correct

and you needing to look at him

[nocturne spindle]

youll live it but

[strong forum]

😄

[nocturne spindle]

why not use a defensive too

[sharp merlin]

I normally put Wall up too

[nocturne spindle]

your not using it for anything else up

[sharp merlin]

but good to know I don't need to sweat it

cause I took a hit the other day and it didn't do much, and I was like.. oh.. that's not too bad

[nocturne spindle]

thats blizzards problem with us tm

if blockable we too stronk

[pallid quiver]

I'm using it for Avatar uptime, thanks

[nocturne spindle]

i mean

you get the avatar uptime if you use it defensively too

[pallid quiver]

yeah, but what if demolish is 5s after the strike, huh?

smh not trying to line up CDs on your charge based defensive CD that gives offensive CD uptime

[nocturne spindle]

oops

<@&257983573498265600>

[ionic fern]

[oblique garnet]

[dusky canopy]

LOL

[frosty mango]

Turn around and let him hit you in the back with it

You’ll change your opinion

[sharp merlin]

Woah bro

Don’t tempt me with a good time

[frosty mango]

“I can take it”

[warm plinth]

I never use a defensive for hateful strike; my mama didn't raise no bitch, but Gorechop's mama did because he hits like one

[solid sun]

I didn’t even know it was called hateful strike because that idiot doesn’t have a tank buster

[frosty mango]

Did you do this @strong forum

I feel attacked

[west perch]

out of tome, seaforium pacemaker and house of cards, which 2 would you pick if all are the same ilvl? I have no clue how i can sim that

[strong forum]

Nah, i feel bad for something else tho

[frosty mango]

Would vary based on content

What content are you doing?

[west perch]

m+ mostly

[nocturne spindle]

lmao

your so like

cheerful sounding about stuff on wowhead

[frosty mango]

Depending on the key pace + tome or pace + hoc. I personally run tome for all keys but cinder/priory/flood - use hoc for those.

Once I hit like 16/17 I swap to a bombsuit or mud.

Tome is high st, hoc is high aoe burst

If you are running sub like 14/15 imo tome is the right choice

[strong forum]

Mh?

[west perch]

Thanks a lot! 😄

i know enough

[nocturne spindle]

just the like difference between "lmao mountain thane sucks" and your editorial writing style

[strong forum]

Well yeah

If it's an execute heavy fight

Thane is likely stronger

[urban bane]

given how unreasonably bad the thane set is I'd be surprised if it doesn't get some prodding.

But then again we aren't mage

[strong forum]

Absolutely has to

It's a 15% difference for fury between trees

[urban bane]

Bananas

[solid sun]

"Thane set is a meme tier" to "if it's execute heavy it'll probably be stronger" def seems kinda different in terms of literary effect, no?

[strong forum]

Thane set is a meme tier

But regardless of said tier

If it's an execute heavy fight, thane by itself, is stronger

Which is what I'm eluding to

Has nothing to do with the tierset

Only with thane itself

And like I also mentioned, tuning is also still up

Telling people to not form opinions yet, cuz thane set is clearly not at all existing rn

Cuz that's my first impression, to basically reserve your opinion until later in the patch

[solid sun]

Even with the col tier set, thane by itself on execute heavy encounters you think would win?

[strong forum]

Potentially, yeah

Given thanes +25% dmg buff from talents to execute

And it's much higher rage gen

[solid sun]

Guess I didn't realize the difference for that encounter design was so big.

[frosty mango]

You’re doing it wrong.

You’d get much higher content engagement if you wrote less (no) words and just used tiermaker to put the tier set bonuses in a tier list

[strong forum]

Nah but I do feel bad for writing so little

But I genuinely sat there

[frosty mango]

“IS MOUNTAIN THANE MEME TIER?!?!?!?!?
WARRIOR GUIDE WRITER REACTS”

[strong forum]

Revisited and couldn't think of anything more to write

[frosty mango]

What is there to write? It’s the most bland tier set ever

It adds zero

[urban bane]

Haha idk if there's really much to say. No sense in making 15 words 200 when 15 suffices.

[strong forum]

Yeah ig...

[solid sun]

It doesn't help when it's during the end of a season when most people are disconnected a bit from the game and you're a bit disillusioned with the game anyways. I'd imagine anyways

[nocturne spindle]

just insert an editorial about how blizz is afraid to make cool tank sets

[solid sun]

It would be fun to add a PS to the article and write about something else you have a lot of thoughts on in wow

A little Nome Rant section

[worthy lichen]

how many times can punish stack?
Oh it doesnt refresh duration, nm

[normal rampart]

Do you have any pull in editing this warlock typo?

[strong forum]

I thought the news would immediately be relayed to them, but

It appears I was the first one!

Should be fixed now

[frosty mango]

Thanks I can continue with my day

[frosty mango]

Still think tierlists and bombastic titles would be better

No data, all feels

[hardy snow]

I see you mention Arterial Bleed, is it possible that it will be better (due to new set and FbV healing) to take it instead of revenge one?

[strong forum]

Certainly a more real choice

Given how much revenge dmg we're losing

[hardy snow]

we do?

[strong forum]

BSC, basically dead talent, show of force gone

That's 20% revenge dmg

[solid sun]

are we going to be with all the other tanks in damage now?

[frosty mango]

Only if you pull small

[strong forum]

Nah according to very credible sources, we're comfortably stronger without having to break 3 legs

[solid sun]

4-5 pack pulls all dungeon every dungeon minimum

[frosty mango]

My new saying is “bleeds time keys”

We are literally fueled by violence

[strong forum]

Like really up there in terms of dmg still

Colossus that is*

[nocturne spindle]

yea i talented the bleed in hero tree

[hardy snow]

dung or raid dmg?

[strong forum]

Raid

[nocturne spindle]

rend was top 3 in my damage

[hardy snow]

[solid sun]

is the bleed build you're using as Col @frosty mango or did you go thane

[frosty mango]

Too soon to celebrate

[strong forum]

Very much to soon

[frosty mango]

I tested all kinds of builds

[strong forum]

But atleast I have some form of data to work with

[frosty mango]

But ultimately the best performing was Colo bleed (obviously)

I thought thane bleed felt the most fluid to play

But imo play doesn’t change from now at all really, to me both hero trees felt about the same as they do now

I did clap more in Colo than I’d like bc rend felt more important

It felt counterintuitive to clap over revenge but I think that’s muscle memory

[mortal cypress]

you should hide messages in your articles, for example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TopGear/comments/rrit4a/the_article_and_hidden_message_that_got_james_may/#lightbox

[sharp gale]

I hope they tune right SD/execute, really hope I can do something in raid least

[strong forum]

Kek

[sharp gale]

Hype to finally have AoE execute in our tree

[frosty mango]

Depending on tuning it may be better to execute in aoe as Colo than to revenge when mobs are low health, which creates frantic gameplay that isn’t fun imo

[nocturne spindle]

theres a decent amount of shields in eco dome

might also get to run wrecking throw

[frosty mango]

Wow has shit target switching tech, it makes trying to switch targets frequently a pain in the ass

And they changed something in 11.1.7 I dunno what it was but they messed up tab targeting

[strong forum]

Colo stacks

Revenge gives colo stacks at 3 targets + more damage per rage

So the only sweetspot is actually 1-2 targets

[frosty mango]

Yeah but if execute is tuned high you may end up pressing execute at 3-5 targets given you’re already at max stacks

[strong forum]

Big doubt

Colo stacks > everything

[mighty valley]

they removed colo stacks from execute a patch before they gave us execute cleave... cruel

[frosty mango]

I also doubt, I think execute will be shit because it usually is

[strong forum]

Yeah imagine the goodness

[frosty mango]

But when I was testing the gameplay over the number

It just felt terrible due to targeting

[strong forum]

It's not that execute is shit, it's just that revenge is economically better

Especially on 3+

You get colo stacks, is cheaper, hits everything, applies bleeds

[frigid valley]

I miss Condemn, dont @ me

[frosty mango]

I wonder too what they’re gonna do with spear

Hasn’t seen much/any play this entire tier and most of last

[strong forum]

Reserved for ST

It was better all of this tier

Outside of niche pad scenarios

[frosty mango]

Don’t think anyone is really running spear even on st

[strong forum]

Literally were on rwf prog

[nocturne spindle]

spear + a demolish crit is juiceh

[frosty mango]

why the shift, no major tuning changes

90+ % of top parses even on ST are roar now

that was largely true even in 11.1

[strong forum]

comfortability i imagine?

spear is very restrictive

roar is just lul send

but also, which boss is ST

cuz uh

lockenfockenstuck is kinda fake

cuz downtime

and vexie favours intermission burst

[frosty mango]

vexie is kind of ST (given the damage buff on her and small window), OAB isnt really ST but I'm not sure I'd consider it cleave

I would expect to see people using it on vexie

[strong forum]

vexie is all about killing her during amp

[frosty mango]

I'm not doubting that spear it numerically the best just saying the functional data doesn't point to that'

[strong forum]

oh yeah absolutely cuz timings are also a thing

youd get 2 spear uses on vexie

but 4 roars

cuz youd delay 2nd spear until 2min for the amp

but youd not need to delay roar

[frosty mango]

yeah and if blizz is looking at talent popularity, combined with their encounter design spear is kind of a dead talent imo

[uncut burrow]

Also fully specced roar has a 45s CD compared to spear’s 1.5min, basically can get twice the satisfaction from roar

[frosty mango]

if thane overtakes popularity I guess that may shift slightly but to me at least it's clear spear needs to be looked at

[strong forum]

if we talking satisfaction

then spear clearly wins

https://www.twitch.tv/nomeratur/clip/AdorableImportantHumanSmoocherZ-inprq-n51Owda9Y-

cuz look at this

[frosty mango]

lol ok fair

delete spear, give us condem, or conq banner, or aftershock

literally any of the other 3, lol

[strong forum]

trade ravager for banner

[frosty mango]

I would 100% take that too

[solid sun]

how does that passive ravager talent look

[frosty mango]

very good atm

likely tuned

down

imo

condemn is basically black arrow

and I want it back

[mighty valley]

don't bother with banner, just make a talent that's 24% strength

beautiful

[solid sun]

but everytime you get hit in the back you lose 6% str

[frosty mango]

Or gain 6% str

[mighty valley]

pain supp me, i'm stacking

[frosty mango]

Talent is named no pain, no gains

Fits fantasy, ship it

[lament zealot]

Shadowlands necro banner was the best warrior has ever been imo

[chilly brook]

I would love to have banner back

[frigid valley]

wouldnt mind more shout oriented stuff like barb in d4

[frosty mango]

Fourth warrior spec, throw based

Uses two pole arms

Let’s go

[glad crater]

Fourth spec : tank 2h, full of parry, blademaster

[frigid valley]

dual shield.
Thecockblocker

[slim dove]

2h + shield

[dusky canopy]

Imagine a weapon throwing spec that’s shouts a lot

Sounds sick

[stone tundra]

reminds me of a custom spec, on a server im not sure im allowed to speak of here

[tribal wharf]

i had a really dumb thought to just now

about the whole they removed spell block

okay here goes

its inspired by what the guy about said about 2h + shield, when you in fury i think it is stance, weapon hits like 2h, when in defensive stance, SB gives some sorta spell block

and then keep the new 4% vs better spell reflect dr

[warm plinth]

Leaning into stances isn't something I'd like to see. If they insist on having stances, I'd prefer how it is now where it's very min/maxy.

Having two possibilities that have very different benefits just complicates balance in my opinion

[tulip pumice]

First season on Protection warrior. Big thanks to the guide writers!

[cerulean tusk]

7 ranks more to you got this

[heavy sparrow]

Like diablo 2 shout specs

[strong forum]

I believe the kids would call this...

Stonks

[heavy sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/seul-friends-gif-26323837

[tulip pumice]

https://tenor.com/view/this-guy-gets-it-nick-offerman-gif-14758472

[slim dove]

[feral zealot]

🤣

[lusty grotto]

popping in

to say

it finally happened

im gonna be making a gif soon for it

shearchip was...

[heavy sparrow]

Crazy cool

[nocturne spindle]

oh no

yoda put us in the number 1 slot on a tier list

[heavy sparrow]

Oh no indeed

[warm plinth]

Bro why is mobile discord having a fucking heart attack over these gifs

[mortal cypress]

it seems to struggle with this server after a while....I thought it was using too much cache, but if it is it aint stored in the normal place

I just close discord and reopen and its fine

[cerulean tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-my-god-gif-23934762

[warm plinth]

Yeah just did that. Seems okay now

[warm plinth]

Is it a tier list for biggest doomsayers because I feel like uhdk should take that crown

[sharp merlin]

my goat would never

[lusty grotto]

my bro's laughter included, have fun

[warm plinth]

Absolutely trucked

[nocturne spindle]

i dunno my friend just linked a screenshot of it

[lusty grotto]

lmao im still laughing at my bro laughing

[warm plinth]

He has a very contagious laugh

[lusty grotto]

@frosty mango you'll probably enjoy it

in my defense...

i was looking at the other screen

cause alt keys are fucking boring

well, any key is at that range

[frosty mango]

Peak dh gameplay

Can we talk about your criminal overall dps though

[lusty grotto]

yes

[solid sun]

No words needed.

Just laughter

[nocturne spindle]

just put it on the gif list

big 3

[lusty grotto]

lol yea

[lusty grotto]

lmao

wait its broken

[nocturne spindle]

hmm

[lusty grotto]

to be fair...

the gif doesnt do it justice

my bro's laugh makes it

its just twice as funny with it