What if I told you, the world isnt flat, its like a paper map that has been folded for transport. This explains how the sun dispears and we got horizons.
#protection
cerulean tusk
frosty mango
That’s just propaganda made by “scientists”
I dunno what they’re up to but I don’t like it
frosty mango
What if I told you, the world isnt flat, its like a paper map that has been fold...
“I’m 12 and this is deep” vibes
waxen cradle
Not to be the devils advocate here, but as I suggested on the forums if Blizzard is so hard set on us not being able to handle magic damage effectively and if they absolutely refuse to change there course on this then would not the most logical choice be to reduce how well all tanks deal with magical damage. In effect they could use this as the means to correct the issue they have complained about for some time... which is how to in general make encounters more overall challenging for tanks. Make how well we handle magical damage a determining factor of well we do our jobs as tanks. Yes this is playing devils advocate a bit but if they won't budge then call there bluff.
frosty mango
Not to be the devils advocate here, but as I suggested on the forums if Blizzar...
“Johnny can’t eat icing so no one gets cake” is kinda how I view this
waxen cradle
Also it sets them up for it all to blow up in there face also
ionic fern
We will still take care of magic damage like we did before. People really need to stop being so doom&gloom.
waxen cradle
Which is what I personally hope happens
frosty mango
Blizz clearly stated their intention behind the change and it has nothing to do with other tanks
What they need to do is take action to fix their stated problem (lack of info in ui) and not just delete the spell because they are too lazy to fix the problem they themselves stated
waxen cradle
I am not being doom and gloom I am trying to call there bluff. If they think they do indeed know better than the players then let them prove it. If they in fact cannot then in effect it only makes them look worse.
frosty mango
It’s also (imo) a nothing burger cop out of logic when applied to ONE spell because blizz already links directly to wowhead articles etc so obviously they have no problem extending player knowledge with external sources
frosty mango
I am not being doom and gloom I am trying to call there bluff. If they think the...
I think it has been proven many times over when it comes to class feedback on ptr cycles blizz generally does not know better than the player. But also that from a balance standpoint they also don’t really care
I think their goal for feedback is design and fluid play, not balance
That’s my observation certainly not a fact
waxen cradle
In my experience the best way to make a fool of someone who thinks they know better than someone else is to let them attempt to prove it. When they cannot then not only do you win but there loss stings all the worse.
That is my point essentially
frosty mango
Blizzard isn’t a someone though, it’s a multimillion dollar corporation whose goal is to collect your cash - you can’t make them feel dumb
They don’t care as long as you pay lol
IMO the best way to fix spell block is to focus on the design aspect of it - “I feel when X happens I do not have a button to answer it, and before I had spell block, and that feels bad”
Less on numeric and more on design/play
waxen cradle
Yeah sad but true, but if they pursue a long string of foolish mistakes long enough and drive players away sooner or later they will have to answer for it. My only concern with them fixing the issue is in there narrow minded point of view it's easier to just remove something than fix it and that is as you said yourself just pure laziness
frosty mango
I think we’ll definitely feel the loss but also we’re not doomed
It will suck profusely in some dungeons but we’re gonna be OK even if nothing changes
waxen cradle
Oh for sure were not doomed. Just begs the question where does there laziness end ?
frigid valley
Players always find a way around stuff anyways, its one of the driving factors, like look at brewmaster, ppl laughed at them early season and now theres one in top10 world.
frosty mango
Players always find a way around stuff anyways, its one of the driving factors, ...
Just because Jeff Gordon can win a race in your Taurus doesn’t make a Taurus a race car
frigid valley
Just because Jeff Gordon can win a race in your Taurus doesn’t make a Taurus a r...
sure exception dont make the rule, what im saying is there's almost always a way to play certain stuff or cd's used to work around mechanics no matter what they remove or add
frosty mango
For the purposes of this analogy we’re assuming it’s not a Taurus sho
waxen cradle
If it is indeed easier in there view to remove something rather than to correct what caused the issue in the first place than what else do they use that same excuse on unless we call them on there laziness. That is how I feel about it
frosty mango
If it is indeed easier in there view to remove something rather than to correct ...
100% agree call them on it - I just don’t think it’s the avenue that leads to us seeing change
tribal wharf
its simple really,
solid sun
We will still take care of magic damage like we did before. People really need t...
There are moments idk how to live if I present the puzzle to myself without spell block as part of the solution. Even a talented pwar like Roid has voiced concern about living the first boss of Dawnbreaker without spell block and he’s better than me, so what hope do I have? Don’t wanna enter the season and just say wellllllll let’s do all the stuff except Dawnbreaker
frosty mango
There are moments idk how to live if I present the puzzle to myself without spel...
I don’t see us living at higher end with no external
But that’s one scenario
And also I think it’s OK to expect externals may be needed at high end content
stiff gate
well depends what key level it one shots us through the +10% spell reflect
solid sun
Idk how I’d live big momma without spell block
tribal wharf
it should state near the boss ability if it does physical or magic damage, and if it can be purged blocked reflected, tremor totem i want to say but doesnt exactly fit
stiff gate
spell block doesn't even mitigate the scariest part of big momma though (the dot)
tribal wharf
there are some buffs you can remove from boss or not, in a key more than a raid
frosty mango
it should state near the boss ability if it does physical or magic damage, and i...
100% and that’s the feedback I gave on the forums. You clearly stated your logic and your logic makes sense. But the action they took doesn’t align with their logic
tribal wharf
so should say this is removable
solid sun
spell block doesn't even mitigate the scariest part of big momma though (the dot...
The initial burst is still scary
waxen cradle
I think we will in one way or another be propped up by other things that will enable us to still be able to perform at ~roughly the same level as any other tank. I just feel that whatever may be propping us up will fail to address the underlining issue. In other words a bandaid, and I hate when they bandaid a spec as they all too often use them.
frosty mango
The initial burst is still scary
I think big momma will be fine with reflect and wall
stiff gate
i think the biggest loss is stuff where you're taking sustained damage that spell block mitigates, because the duration is really strong. paladin pull in priory is my #1 fear without it.
frosty mango
Raid this tier would actually be kinda rough with no sblock
Sprocket and gally in particular
solid sun
The paladins. The double big guys in floodgate
tribal wharf
i need to know before i even step foot in the dungeon, with in the game help, that i can do this or that to it
stiff gate
The paladins. The double big guys in floodgate
yeah jumpstarters too, i forgot about them cuz i have been doing a route that only ever fights one of them for a while now
tribal wharf
cuz like, then i go on discord i get distracted by memes i go on youtube or wowhead to look it up and i get distracted
and its like, im done with confusion in games, i dont have the patience any more
i dont give a fuck if its going to lead me down a path
frosty mango
I really do honestly feel that our best avenue to “fixing” the loss of spellblock is to focus on the feel and logic they offered
waxen cradle
Sadly Blizzard has all to frequently said "oops we fucked up here is a bandaid we will fix you next expac" and that is as we can all agree lazy
frosty mango
Which is a) we feel we do t have a response to certain things and b) we feel like the info should be properly communicated in the ui
We know they won’t do b because they’re obviously already aware it’s a problem
tribal wharf
takes 50 times as long to reach the same point as the game just fucking told me, the reason its hard to know in the dungeon journal is because one of the abilities has more effect text than a god damn yugioh card
frosty mango
Focusing on “wars will die without spellblock” is not gonna cause change because it’s overwhelmingly not true for the vast majority of the player base
And they know that
tribal wharf
so even then im still desperately filtering through 50 words, scanning for key words, and when i do its, horrify vs fear vs cower
just desperately trying to work out wtf is happening, so i can work out wtf to respond to it with first
waxen cradle
Oh I don't think we will die, I just think there solution will become a temporary one and the actual fix will be something they will put off until a later date, and they have used that same old story so long many of us have it memorized
frosty mango
Oh I don't think we will die, I just think there solution will become a temporar...
You mean like the exact same scenario that existed when they introduced spellblock as a bandaid?
waxen cradle
I guess my issue is after 20 years plus one would think they had learned something, but sadly laziness will always be present when they don't care to address the real problem and can avoid it
@frosty mangoyes exactly... Bandaid on.... RIP it back off
solid sun
It’s just so blatantly stupid and out of left field
How do you target spell block for the reasons they posted but not spell reflect, which imo requires even more knowledge unless you only use it for the DR
waxen cradle
Well this is assuming they know what they are talking about and actively play the class and take part in the content they create as a Prot Warrior. Which they clearly do not
frosty mango
or shield block
When you really think about it it’s like half the spells in the game lol
solid sun
I was fully with Roid when he suspected a damage nerf
And if someone said they wanted to do something about block itself because it’s hard to balance, I’d get that too
But going after magic damage mitigation is just so weird. It isn’t what we’re known for
But I guess they didn’t intend it as a nerf moreso than they did getting rid of something they just didn’t like
waxen cradle
I mean I would say there excuse for why Spell Block was half baked but it was more in line with playing darts blind folded while wasted. They just threw something at the wall and if it stuck they went with it.
tribal wharf
When it comes to games and thier bs mechanics, unless its i love the game, or its my first time playing to beat the game (likely last in many cases) if there is a mechanic that kills you but there is a counter to it, if it isn't this much crystal clear im going to rage or rage quit
its intensly frustrating
cerulean tusk
Yogi, is that you?
tribal wharf
mm not quite, this is wolf 3d tech, it was the proposed sequel to wolfenstien 3d
dusky canopy
Ahh shoot you got me!
dusky canopy
How are the moose up there??
cerulean tusk
tasty af
waxen cradle
I always like Castle Wolfenstein also the doom rip off. I remember crusing threw that game, and getting to that one door and hearing a russian dude say gutten tach and I was wrecked
tribal wharf
SPION
always hate those elite gaurdsmen in the white
yogi want game about kill nazi scum, kill demon, all the bad guys basically
i dont want tea party
simulator with dollies
dusky canopy
But the kids prefer Dollie’s yogi
waxen cradle
they really do
solid sun
On the bright side the new dungeon is pretty to look at. Could have tea parties there
waxen cradle
Can the game be about killing all the evil dollies ?
solid sun
Grim dark is so 20 years ago
waxen cradle
Duke Nukem ?
waxen cradle
true
solid sun
You can have war as long as your weapon has unicorns on it and it shoots pixy du...
I think you just described that dungeons and dragons inspired borderlands game
dusky canopy
Indeed
tribal wharf
and then, also your dealing with build engine hit scanners
so fuck that game for that reason
thats why, back before df i said, do dragons and before sl do hell, those things and places are full of all kinds of danger and riches
turns out not so much
waxen cradle
Well they did in fact do hell in SL's. Its just SL's wasn't hell playing it was
tribal wharf
i want to be more clear, fire and brimstone hell, with like, devils and such, or scary ghosts, like, the maw was 1/2 way there
with the ghosts and abandoned no mans spooky land
the maw was supposed to be, purgatory, and then as you neared zoval, he'd be in a very hellish kind of area
waxen cradle
Yeah that would have made SL's much better, but that might have offended some snowflakes
solid sun
Idk he was just a robot
waxen cradle
I can imagine it even now #notmyhell
solid sun
Don’t need fire and brimstone for robots
tribal wharf
new blizzard doesnt got the balls to show a proper decapitation scene
waxen cradle
true
tribal wharf
even the spider one was off screen and implied
small steeple
We will still take care of magic damage like we did before. People really need t...
I’ve heard from several sources that we actually seem tankier on the ptr? And take the damage from the new dungeon very well? I don’t have ptr myself so I haven’t tested this but does this track?
waxen cradle
What I have heard most is in large trash packs we are self healing significantly better and are able to survive, but my question is how well will that hold up on bosses and ST situations, or for that matter against abilities designed to be pure tank busters how well will that self healing hold up.
toxic pewter
zovaal was never the jailer
it was actually the primus all along pulling the strings.. he was the true jailer, zovaal was his prisoner
this has all been solved/figured out on youtube videos etc
he literally was a robot stooge unfortunately
tribal wharf
they have the opportunity to do or make something really cool out of this new expansion box art dude galaxicious or some shit
what that is, i have no idea
i could picture with nice pc on heroic/mythic he turns into something looks really cool
dimensious, closest i will get
waxen cradle
or troll the shit out of us and he turns into Millhouse Manastorm
tribal wharf
if its really evil millhouse mana storm, then sure okay
waxen cradle
Would be hilarious and awesome
small steeple
if its really evil millhouse mana storm, then sure okay
Isn’t the manastorms like enslaved/owned by that one Loa we fought in De other side?
tribal wharf
i can still see the sawblades debuff, fuck that fight
waxen cradle
I see Xal'Atath like absorbing him or some shit and becoming like ultra powerful after we kill him. The #Xalmywaifu posts would be legendary
tribal wharf
honestly worst part of that fight was the debuff
or the electric dps thing
someone alwys fuck it up
waxen cradle
True someone always did hurrdurr there but it was at least consistent. The guild I was in if we pugged that key we always threw bets to try and determine who would derp it up
gold betting addon of course
urban bane
Said he will be as big as Stormwind ~roughly
bigger than
small steeple
Energy shield on bear or Brew is nasty with the healing amps they got
frigid valley
heck is energy shield
tribal wharf
i am happy that they are bringing old warcraft strategy games to console
have to assume its for console, game pass anyways,
cerulean tusk
DPTS 859k, HTPS 720k
Lets just say, healer didnt really need to touch me 
cyan bronze
Only 139k hps worth of touching
undone beacon
Energy shield on bear or Brew is nasty with the healing amps they got
I havent messed with energy shield on my bear cuz big crit chain
So much juicy crit
frosty mango
This man wearing every defensive thing he can
Prob got healing gems in that circlet
dusky canopy
I’ll do both for the right price
jagged gust
20 bucks is 20 bucks after all
frosty mango
I’ll do both for the right price
Do you have a 4k cam?
dusky canopy
I do not own a web cam
frosty mango
Am I supposed to just pay and imagine?
meager musk
ik this is going to be a dumb question but i havent played a prot warrior in so long but do we still stance dance between defensive and battle stance for keys and raids?
warm plinth
Not really
You can go battle stance to min/max but the difference is so minimal that we usually just sit in def stance in keys. Not 100% on raid since I dont do it
meager musk
ok ty so much i guess i still have vanilla style in my head yet when it comes to prot warriors but thank you for taking the time to answer that for me @warm plinth
mighty valley
there's no abilities locked to stances any more
and the offensive bonus from battle stance these days is merely 3% crit
vocal cave
I like how we had no incentive to switch to battle stance so they added mandatory talent so we have even less of it 🙂
dense remnant
I am here to tank, not to spank
youre the one getting spanked
its the part of tanking
dusky canopy
You can go battle stance to min/max but the difference is so minimal that we usu...
I’ll battle stance you!
frosty mango
You can go battle stance to min/max but the difference is so minimal that we usu...
I battle in raid (until mid mythic) and def stance in keys
you could bstance in keys but tbh i would forget
to change it for trash
and then die
jagged gust
Personally I didn't feel like making a new keybind for dwarf racial when I rolled a new toon so I just put it where I used to have my stance dance macro
dense remnant
you didnt have a specific keybind for racial?
rough egret
Its “Y” for me
rough egret
Im using QWERTZ keyboard so the Y is below S, handy
Using my ring finger to press it
dense remnant
thats a rly nice bind
raven prism
are we fucked in new raid with all the cosmic and shadow damage now
raven prism
what if spell reflect is really good
dense remnant
doesnt matter, i cant press that button
raven prism
gg
dense remnant
need to luck out on the 100% mitigation
just pull enough so you proc it on all the big hits
raven prism
is there literally any magic defence alternatives
mighty valley
are we fucked in new raid with all the cosmic and shadow damage now
wouldn't worry, even if we still had spell block they'd probably tag half the threatening damage as unblockable
rough egret
Let healers do their job
tribal wharf
no, a healers job is to dispell
then the poison debuff gets popped and player takes (almost) no damage
rough egret
Is HC jastir bad for m+ due to its stats or, its okay to use it together with crafted ring? Or is actually better to have 2 crafted rings?
Or its just sim angle..
jade hazel
Jastors uptime is usually what keeps it ahead
tribal wharf
bigger than
i saw other images of him in it was like a youtube video
and hes more of a blue berry model
and so, i think we lure him to the maw, and use him has a bomb to blow up the maw
unless hell is planned to be added, then maw and torghast would be hell portals
rocky nexus
any1 got raid build for me? :D
undone beacon
Or its just sim angle..
right on the money
mortal cypress
any1 got raid build for me? :D
wowhead does
frigid valley
finally
frigid valley
gally
dense remnant
o nice
frosty mango
Grats
rocky nexus
wowhead does
i meant ptr homie, useful as always
warm plinth
Are you saying he's not useful?
mortal cypress
i meant ptr homie, useful as always
sorry I just dipped in and saw your question without the context
warm plinth
I wouldn't really expect you to go back over 2 hours to make sure a question didn't have further context XD
undone beacon
@frosty mango how do you feel about tenable
frosty mango
<@228540157333078016> how do you feel about tenable
good tool if youre using it internally for credentialed scans
but it can get a little overzealous if not configured properly and trigger incidents
but overall it does what it says it does
Im assming youre talking about nessus and not tenable the company
if youre talking about the company I've never had any issues with their sales dudes or tech folks but the products also work basically as advertised so I havent really interacted with them a lot
undone beacon
if youre talking about the company I've never had any issues with their sales du...
this is the glowing review I need lol
I’m interviewing for their channel SE team
Just had to double check from someone who hasn’t drank the kool aid
frosty mango
like I said I've really only interacted with nessus unless you count their open source stuff in which case I've worked with terrascan and CNAPPgoat but thats more foss contribution than company
is it sales or like account management
lusty grotto
ok you 2
fill me in on whats happened this week
you first bear
so... nothing
ok more spice for me then
cerulean tusk
Xantage has his birthday today! That is basically all that has happened
lusty grotto
happy birthday xantage!
cerulean tusk
I tried to @ him, but I cant, doesnt find the name 
maybe you can fix?
lusty grotto
i cannot, im out of practice
undone beacon
is it sales or like account management
Sales Engineering, so more technical sales support and channel management
undone beacon
you first bear
Sorry bb was eating dinner
lusty grotto
understandable
undone beacon
Nothing really new or interesting with bear. Tier adjustments and fixes for 11.2 mean there may be a legit catweaving M+ build
But otherwise bear is bear
undone beacon
formal elbow
prot warrior feels ok, i finally beat the underpin boss...was much easier than on my old dd (not warrior)...but one melee dps with 1hand+shield would be nice, or new support class like bard ;D
tribal wharf
i just think that holy paladin and caster shaman should be able to see more use of equipped shield
i'd rather give spell breaker to paladin
round cliff
i just think that holy paladin and caster shaman should be able to see more use ...
they should let ele shaman toss their shield and bank lightning bolts off it
like the coin in ultrakill
tribal wharf
spell breaker in wc3 is, you can purge and you can MC i think right
im thinking mostly about the purge part
slim dove
spellbreakers were warriors in wc3
tribal wharf
ya, and i keep trying to think of how you make a protection warrior cool, that isnt you turn him into prot paladin
i think thats the cloesest thing that isnt a paladin but its a big dude with a shield
round cliff
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/careers/product-and-engineering-operations-manager
get that bread
and make sure that the fights warrior pads best on dont get killed
round cliff
make sure adds are INCLUDED but only on the five target burst aoe fights
so fury can top dps
scenic bone
Is the auto ravager looking to be the move?
jade hazel
Something weird about spell block and it being removed coming full circle for me. I’m a dragon flight baby for the most part and I literally started playing as a tank, got scared of doing research for spell block, and became an arms main. Now I’m learning prot and they’re removing it lmao
runic granite
Something weird about spell block and it being removed coming full circle for me...
So it’s your fault
runic granite
so fury can top dps
Is fury even top in 5t?
torn geyser
runic sleet
the first boss of dawnbreaker would like to disagree with you
have good magic mitigation all the time or death
jade hazel
Nah dawg
random rng magic parry > spell block
cerulean tusk
Guys, you speak of it as we gonna die or struggle. We won't. Trust blizz balance ⚖️ it is perfect for 12s
jade hazel
Incoming design of dungeons where instead of melee based mobs they’re magic based and the big hits are physical spells 
cerulean tusk
but the physical big busters ain't blockable, or ppally would be op
jade hazel
I dunno the whole spell block removal had me thinking about a broader picture of design 
cerulean tusk
I think they were just annoyed that they had to check what was spell blockable and reflectable. So they removed one, to make it half the workload
runic sleet
ah yes, 4% chance to survive 96% chance to die
cerulean tusk
50/50, you die or you live
runic sleet
shrödinger's tank
cerulean tusk
As long you don't turn your screen back on, you never died
runic sleet
toxic pewter
60% of the time it works everytine
runic sleet
floodgate is staying in the pool, how do we deal with those bosses now i wonder. I havent realy tried playing war on the ptr yet so maybe the problem isnt as major as i think it will be
cerulean tusk
I got a perfect plan, I will simply ask my healer to heal more.
elder sentinel
runic sleet
maybe if protection ends up being bad people will start runing brew's in their physical comps instead
round cliff
if prot ends up bad ill be running brew lol
nocturne spindle
momma might not be terrible
if bleed heal stays as good as it seems to be on ptr
add cleave stonks
elfin kiln
after doing heroic testing on DK, im also leaning towards brew
runic granite
Why do we think prot will be bad? It’s got much bigger self healing now with tier and does good damage
runic sleet
Well i can't say anything about raid but in m+ survival is king, that is even more true when heavy damage intake is comon. Season 3 is looking like it contains alot of magic damage tankbusters and those tend be a pass/fail mechanic, those kinds of busters usualy kill you outright if you cant mitigate them which means self healing wont help
jagged gust
we dont
runic sleet
That being said its just speculation on my part and i am no expert when it comes to warrior, especialy not with the new changes so take what i say with a massive grain of salt
If it turns out warrior can survive the dungeon pool then their damage might make them a strong pick, if not then they will probably be on the lower end of tanks but we will just have to wait and see.
south wing
what haste number when into the fray out paces heavy reprecussion?
jagged gust
seems to be somewhere ~16k
coarse latch
60% of the time it works everytine
oak ivy
frosty mango
Well i can't say anything about raid but in m+ survival is king, that is even mo...
This isn’t an issue until very high level
runic sleet
Thats very true
frosty mango
And magic tankbusters specifically are usually handled by wall just fine unless the incidence is high
But if they are frequent then yes it could be a pain
See motherlode, dawnbreaker
runic sleet
Well yeah. DB, Flood and Psf will be in the season so there will most likely be frequent magic damage
frosty mango
Only dawnbreaker there really requires heavy mit
The other two I think will be ok
The last miniboss in psf might get really rough at high keys
First dawnbreaker boss is a question mark for me
Guess we’ll see once we can test
runic sleet
Yeah thats kind of what i said aswell
Im would be pleasantly suprised if it isnt an issue, i realy want to play pwar as my primary alt next season
warm plinth
Regardless of anything, it's not like prot war won't be viable. It just won't be meta, which it already isn't.
runic sleet
Its rare that a tank is not viable for 95% of all content
Almost unheard of even
Having a tank at all is bis 
old juniper
Didnt they roll the Shield Block part of Champions Bulwark into Shield Charge? I doesnt appear to be there on PTR.
jagged pier
vital vale
blazing ridge
Will they increase the droprate for open World stuff like the blackrock bullwark too starting next week?
blazing ridge
Meh probably need to do TBC raid then I guess for the transmog
vast epoch
Oldschool BT shield more vibes anyway
blazing ridge
Yeah maybe I get lucky and get the warglaives too
frigid valley
bis shield anyways
blazing ridge
Dude where is this shield from
jagged pier
wod challenge modes its unobtainable now
blazing ridge
polar patio
good ol challenge mode weapons still one of the best in game
jagged pier
Itd the wrong colour for most things sadly
And i would rather its just stayed in the big state
Red glaive was datamined hopefully trading post
polar patio
well if had i to chose between less hd gear that actually looks like the character has seen some shit, i still do prefer that over being a pink dutch braid pronoun boy
frigid valley
Red glaive was datamined hopefully trading post
wuut when? got a link
polar patio
therefore, matches perfectly for most parts
jagged pier
wuut when? got a link
It was a long time ago it was datamined
But its not in the game yet anywhere
blazing condor
hows the game rn
remote anchor
good
sharp merlin
honestly lost my will to play anymore
4x attempts at Cinder 15, every single one..
all 4 attempts, it was wild, I marked them and stood on top of them, still went off
remote anchor
boomkin solos them
civic yew
Do you guys actually press whirldwind?
remote anchor
no
civic yew
figures
sharp merlin
boomkin solos them
I’m the only one soloing them
remote anchor
💀
sharp merlin
It’s legit the only dungeon that requires dps to have their monitor turned on
jagged pier
hows the game rn
Bad
frail ibex
honestly lost my will to play anymore
Should just be doing the LoS
Dps are dumb
in all key levels
cerulean tusk
I am surprised the barrels didn't die to passive AoE. My advice to fix that problem in a PuG remains the same tho
lime urchin
frens, I am looking at my 6 cartel chips (I dont play mythic raid) and thinking on buying trinkets, I am pretty avarage player and thinking on buying mud for the more heavy bosses, I already have pacemaker + tome on heroic, so ill buy one of those as well, or am I grieving too much when buying mud for 1 extra defensive?
(I can buy myth track trinkets)
cerulean tusk
Mud is neat, I personally bought scrapfield or whatever it is called. The passive grants a shield. As I made a full meme build based on all the shield procs I can get.
(i only lack the embelishment ones)
jagged pier
Ok see u in a year
I mean depends if u want some old mounts or tmog from raids might be good to come back for july
But if not i would recoomend coming back for housing which i think is prepatch
blazing condor
i dont even have the expansion rn 
jagged pier
That wont effect the tmog or mounts, dont think it effects housing ither
Mops also coming soons so thats cool
And dont think not having the expansion effects legion remix
Just need a sub
full plover
STOP MAKING YOUTUBE VIDEOS SAYING PROT IS GOOD OR BROKEN ON PTR JUST LET US BE
DOWNVOTE ALL CLICKBAIT
jagged pier
We arent and the thing they talking about is already getting nerfed
So its ok
We actually loose damage from new tree
And defensive capabilites the heaking is 100% getting nerfed
Which is what they complaining about
So based off very qucik napkin maths looks like the thane set is a dps loss over the current tier atm
jagged pier
Also
Ppl that make the videos arent in this discord
So no point ranting in here about them
cerulean tusk
full plover
We can band together and report all these videos
cerulean tusk
I am suprised my shieldproc build hasnt taken off on YouTube as being 'the immortal prot warrior' build
outheals all dam in a 12
how strong aint that?
jagged pier
I havent seen any builds, im still pretty sure my guess at a standard build is close to if not the same as nomers
Which would be miles from what the other ppl are running
jagged pier
Gross
full plover
Uhh
jagged pier
Dont see bombsuit 
blazing condor
bro earth bending
jagged pier
Juzt replace scarp trinket
cerulean tusk
Never
it is my ez to see how many times I went under 60% panic trinky
I need it in case I drop low
Never happens
but it COULD
jagged pier
But u have bsv for that
cerulean tusk
Nah, that is in case my failsafe fails
See? My build clealry is opop. Why aint Yoda talking about that...
He thinks his build is immortal, pftzz, nothing on mine.
jagged pier
U should really swap 1 point of bb for bolster the run itf
More immortallity cause smoother play and more rage
unreal spear
I thought everyone was using the other one
Guess I’m dumb
Just got back from season feels weird
cerulean tusk
U should really swap 1 point of bb for bolster the run itf
No, cause I dont have haste, I have vers/mast
blazing condor
good to see skyhold is the same as always
jagged pier
So that makes itf more impactful kinda cause haste will do more for u as u have none of it
unreal spear
Dolar, whatever you do, dont copy my meme builds
Send me I don’t have haste either
It’s been a pain
cerulean tusk
Next season will be your season, Dolar
Reminds me, I havent done any 2hand tanking this season yet
unreal spear
Next season will be your season, Dolar
I keep saying that since legion
Guess I should play DH again
frosty mango
Reminds me, I havent done any 2hand tanking this season yet
Nothing stopping you, just get a good healer
jade hazel
https://tenor.com/view/anime-frieren-tasty-eating-eat-gif-8951409568795430521
10/10 anime
glad crater
Reminds me, I havent done any 2hand tanking this season yet
Is this a real thing? Like to speed up on low keys? 😮
full plover
Yea if you equip a 2h your shield block spell becomes "guard block" and behaves exactly the same
cerulean tusk
Is this a real thing? Like to speed up on low keys? 😮
Its only for fun, to remind myself and others that this is a game and you can play it however you want in 99% of all cases
glad crater
i like this mindset
cerulean tusk
stonks
glad crater
true
blazing condor
having not played since DF it feels bad seeing no intim shout/challenge shout/shield charge
cerulean tusk
having not played since DF it feels bad seeing no intim shout/challenge shout/sh...
its a 2hand build
warm plinth
its a 2hand build
How exactly do you plan on not dying lol
cerulean tusk
So far doing 12s is totally fine
I think you overestimate how much damage things do
warm plinth
Considering how close to dying I've gotten in 12s a few times with shield block, I have a good idea
sharp merlin
Totally fine, no sweat 😂
for context, I had never played Prot, only picked it up 3 weeks ago
keen leaf
sharp merlin
ahaha
kind urchin
I was watching one of the highest io tanks in the world stream some ptr this morning and watched him backpeddle into the giant pack that he was tanking as he pulled more mobs. He was getting destroyed the entire time he was walking backwards through the pack. Just goes to show IO does not equal skill.
warm plinth
Getting hit in the back builds character
west turtle
Do we use thunderclap at all in current collosus build? I feel like I'm wasting a gcd considering revenge is better as a spender for more procs for SS, idk
undone beacon
Do we use thunderclap at all in current collosus build? I feel like I'm wasting ...
Applies Rend, so yeah
And thunderclap for prot gives rage, doesn’t spend rage
warm plinth
Yeah was gonna say, thunder clap is not a spender XD
runic granite
Should be especially important in season 3 as our fueled by violence healing will be huge
warm plinth
You should still be using Thunder Clap pretty close to on cooldown as Colossus. It's not a complete opposite of Thane. The reason Thane presses Revenge so little is because you have more GCDs taken up with all the Thunder Claps (which are very powerful as Thane) you have available
And so you use IP more just to be able to spend rage amidst the rotation
royal mist
I might be missing it. What is the current belt choice
mighty valley
Yeah when you’re playing colossus you’re more gauging your rage for the next several gcds and asking “can I get away with not pressing tc right now”
warm plinth
Spark Burst
obsidian harness
Speaking of season 3. How're we feeling about the new talent tree? They said their goal was to create less restriction and open up the tree, and then they funnel us through mandatory choke-points and force talents we generally don't take down our throats. Turning Enduring Defenses into a 2 point node and forcing us to take it is some wacky shit. Them removing the 4% DR from defensive stance, only to create a mandatory talent that give us that 4% back I think is hilariously out of touch. And Shield Wall being at the bottom of the 2nd row? What's that about? I'm thinking they gotta restructure the whole thing.
warm plinth
What 4% did they remove from Defensive Stance?
obsidian harness
From season 1 to season 2 they nerfed it from 20% to 16%. Now they are giving that 4% back in a mandatory talent.
warm plinth
I don't understand; would you prefer it were optional?
jagged pier
i mean i would prefer the talent not being a thing or it not be there on the tree because i wouldnt take it ever
except it stops u getting AM if u dont take it
obsidian harness
I just think that, in many ways, the new tree is actually MORE restrictive than the current tree, which is the opposite of what their dev note on the topic was saying they wanted to do. They wanted to remove mandatory talents that we always took no matter what.
Yes, everything should be optional. In our current tree we have good choice nodes that we can pick between damage and defensives. In the new tree, we're funneled into things we can't choose.
And yea, that's another good point. We have to go through so many talents we wouldn't otherwise take given the option, in order to get to some of the cool talents that we DO want to take. Why?
hardy snow
I just think that, in many ways, the new tree is actually MORE restrictive than ...
I feel like half of their changes to all talent trees that are supposed to give "more choice" in the end become more restrictive.
obsidian harness
I completely agree, yea. They just literally do the opposite of what they say their goal is. And it's very clear to us, the people who play the game. But for some reason developers can't see that? It's incredibly frustrating.
warm plinth
Idk, just make all the talent trees like hero trees and be done with it imo. Have choice nodes, but other than that, you just end up with all the talents in the end. It's an illusion of choice regardless for 99% of it because everyone will play what ends up being the best, with maybe 2 or 3 points that won't make much difference either way. Sounds like a hero tree to me!
stiff gate
That’s not true for every spec all the time. I think hero trees have made it much worse because they lock you in to playing around a specific theme
obsidian harness
Idk about that. I think our current tree has a great deal of flexibility in builds. I change things around all the time. In many ways, Sai is correct. A good example is how Ravager is unusable in Slayer. It deletes the choice node completely.
warm plinth
As opposed to before hero talents where we played around a specific whatever-talents-are-the-best-and-nothing-else. At least they provide flavor.
What does Slayer have to do with prot?
stiff gate
Maybe for prot Warrior. I played all kinds of wacky talent setups to title range as enhance in df s2. I don’t think the way talent trees work is an illusion of choice universally, I just think most of the current trees are poorly laid out and poorly balanced.
obsidian harness
I think it's mostly just YOU pick whatever talents are the "best". Again, I think a lot of us change our talents around pretty frequently.
It was an example of what we were talking about with some hero specs being restrictive. There's LOTS of examples across a lot of the classes.
Another, brand new example for Brewmaster. They are getting a choice talent with their celestial brew, something more passive. But Master of Harmony required them to use celestial brew, so their new talent is completely useless if they run MoH.
It's a really bad design if you ask me. Lots of examples of it around.
stiff gate
Maybe for prot Warrior. I played all kinds of wacky talent setups to title range...
To elaborate on my other point, all those choices evaporated instantly when tempest became the dominant part of our rotation. Now all our damage comes from cycling maelstrom as hard as possible and invalidates every talent that doesn’t feed into that. The hero tree killed that spec’s regular tree diversity.
warm plinth
I do not always pick what talents are the best. But the vast majority of players do. And while I may not pick what is the best, I don't find my choices to be particularly meaningful.
I feel like I need to say here that my initial point was that the talent trees should be designed geographically (for lack of a better term) like hero trees, not that they should be hero trees.
I am against what you're talking about though. Making certain things obsolete based on a talent
Like take prot warrior for example. We have two offensive abilities that are nothing.
Never use it, ever. Why do we have it??
You should use what you have, and nothing you pick in a talent tree should make you just never use something.
restive oak
Honestly they are just discovering why they removed talent trees in the first place
warm plinth
Yes, I know, that was (part of) my point.
I could see them nuking talent trees again as part of this paradigm shift they seem to be angling toward
slim dove
people screech over 3-4% throughput nodes without realizing the spec will just be balanced around that node to begin with, like the shitty day/night talent that druid had for DF
warm plinth
To simplify the game
stiff gate
Meh, I change talents a lot on the characters I play, even if only for a few % dps/survivability/QoL in a certain dungeon. I think the DF talent trees were the single most fun thing they’ve added to the game since m+ in legion. Hated the old system
restive oak
im pretty sure the higher ups are asking why they are catering to the captive audience anyway
warm plinth
I like the larger trees (to a point). I just think it's silly to pretend like we have a lot of options when we really don't.
Having a few points here and there that you can change doesn't really feel like choice to me
slim dove
im pretty sure the higher ups are asking why they are catering to the captive au...
just like 99% of the playerbase asks every season why tuning is held captive by RWF.
warm plinth
When those choices are niche or not impactful at all
slim dove
cant fix/buff/nerf anything until liquid finish's the raid guys
warm plinth
Random side note: I think it'd be hysterical if we could have a RWF where everyone uses the one-button thing
earnest cove
We have options, but we play the game highly optimised, and because the of balancing there is nothing the can do against that. The case that talents change your gameplay without interacting with your performance are not given.
warm plinth
Anyway, I am a bit jaded on that whole thing and said the regular trees should be designed like hero talents thing mostly out of frustration.
I really do enjoy the themes that the hero talents themselves create, though I get that they aren't everyone's cup of tea (and I'll reiterate that anything that makes a spell completely unusable is stupid) or might be frustrating in their current version.
mighty valley
I don’t think I’ve changed talents on prot this whole season lol
Except having raid vs m+ builds
restive oak
i actually used thane for my first stix kill just cuz it was easier to grab adds
but that's it
warm plinth
For me, that's not a new thing specific to these talent trees. I've never been the guy who min/maxed by changing a talent unless I had to (e.g. something is a choice node or an option off another talent so I have to give one up to take the other in some specific circumstance). Having to change things annoys me.
^ that's in response to Harrow's comment
mighty valley
Yeah I don’t really think “aoe or single target” is a thrilling choice
stiff gate
I don’t think I’ve changed talents on prot this whole season lol
Prot isn’t a very good example of being able to switch talents but you can drop BSV in low keys for battering ram, you can drop fear in theater for a utility point, you can play the magic dr in Motherlode on high keys for rixxa, you can drop AoE kick for more damage in dungeons with less casters, you can play Thunderlord in keys where you are afraid of trash and want better demo shout uptime, etc.
warm plinth
I don't really mind swapping between raid or dungeon because it's different content, but even the brief period of time where I raided, I loathed having to change talents every other boss to feel like I wasn't throwing.
warm plinth
To be clear, I did not raid as prot warrior and I think tanks have to do that in general a lot less frequently
At the time I was playing outlaw rogue, which had to change talents literally every single boss of that raid because of the fight design. I like diversity in design but find it annoying to have to do swaps like that
slender bison
Come on dude, if you're a 3.5k tank you have to min max talent points. Just make the per dungeon spec once and change loadout before a dungeon. It's not like you have to pay gold for respec
warm plinth
If I have to do the swpas, I do it. That doesn't magically make it not annoying to me.
swaps*
slender bison
It makes you a better player. If you don't like it, then play handicapped
knotty pewter
I think people expect too much out of talent choices. If you want a more meaningful choice that impacts how you play the spec I think thats what the hero talents accomplish. Some are more succesful than others.
In the spec tree itself for prot warrior you actually see a lot of diversity in talents taken this season (especially compared to VDH) but the truth is those talents don't really change how you play that much and what's "optimal" is only barely so and maybe only is on paper and not in practice.
If you want proof of the class/spec tree diversity go look at the talent builds for all the prot warriors that have done 20 priory. I didnt actually count but I think theres about a dozen talents between them all that are different.
That shows pretty clearly that the talent system, in this case, does provide multiple ways to skin the same cat.
warm plinth
Creating preset loadouts for every dungeon and clicking a button to swap between them makes me a better player?
I'd love to know your logic behind that.
stiff gate
I don't really mind swapping between raid or dungeon because it's different cont...
I personally find it fun to try different talents and see if any of them make a difference. I hate when I end up playing the same build for every dungeon.
restive oak
there isn't much choice tho, it's the illusion of choice, with talent bloat :p
warm plinth
That's fair. If you like it, I have no beef with you haha. It's just not my thing.
I don't think they should change it to suit my personal preference
solid sun
I don’t see any reason why we need talents
warm plinth
But I'm not speaking so much about trying something different so much as like...on a healer you might take your non-magic dispel on one dungeon but have to give it up to take some other utility in another dungeon. Just feels very arbitrary to me
Because in that scenario, you aren't changing for uniqueness, you're changing out of some random necessity
solid sun
Every time there are talent changes and reworks on talents tons of people get mad and for what? Everyone will have fun doing different stuff but I don’t really get the “fun” behind talent changes or whatever. Just give me my tools and let me use them to resolve mechanics and whatever as they arise
Idc if I use brutal vitality or fueled by violence. I’ll read the pins here and the wowhead guide and then set up my talents and I’m done engaging with it lol
slender bison
I think people expect too much out of talent choices. If you want a more meaning...
People copy paste wowhead/icy builds at season start which works for 95% of content and when they see some variation they go "Ok, which one of you is my tank?". That's it. Plus devs don't bother making choices matter (Intervene/Wrecking Thtow lmao), as sims are the source of truth
Then mid season they copy archon/murlok top 10 players builds without knowing why. This is for all classes.
It's all dumbed down. It's what the devs want.
late vault
For M+, what are we thinking bois?
knotty pewter
I give more credit to title pushing tanks. I don't pretend to know what's in peoples heads.
jagged pier
pushing title is literally invest time
knotty pewter
That's mostly true but not really the point. I was originally talking about the top 10 tanks in the world anyhow. And the clear talent diversity there.
They clearly aren't copying each other.
slender bison
That's mostly true but not really the point. I was originally talking about the ...
You mean top 10 DHs?
slender bison
Yes, because they customize to their group/dungeon. Depends on what snapshot you catched the build at last logout
knotty pewter
Logs don't do that
And it's not comp differences
I was just trying to come at the discussion with some objectivity. Pointing out that there is a lot of talent difference in the wf keys
slender bison
For M+, what are we thinking bois?
If you have 3.4k this season, you'll get at least 3.4k next one too
late vault
Are you gonna run Heal from bleeds build?
seems like they buffed self heal playstyle
with the tier set and all
knotty pewter
Yes, because they customize to their group/dungeon. Depends on what snapshot you...
Also raider Io doesn't always do that anymore.
jagged pier
Are you gonna run Heal from bleeds build?
really should wait till tuning before discussing things, as its very likely FbV will be nerfed
and if it doesnt then they will nerf it later
most likely
late vault
oh for sure, even if they keep it at 110%, with the tier set it should still be pretty good
scenic blade
random rant but it’s crazy how fucking hard dailcry is on 19+
especially if you pull lynxs with it lmao
frosty mango
really should wait till tuning before discussing things, as its very likely FbV ...
They won’t nerf fbv they’ll just nerf our damage instead 4head
tribal wharf
if i did play hard core and some item like this dropped i would probably ninja the hell out of it
if it was a purple weapon i can equip with stats i need upgrade, 100%
elfin ginkgo
Do yall not use disrupting shout?
warm plinth
I'd wager most of us do
unborn island
Is there a reason the haste belt is BiS for us (like is it over budget or something?) or is it just because haste is our BiS stat?
Just coming back after a few weeks away and I'm out of the loop, if it's just the stat I'll do the crit one instead (CBA running more delves than I need)
late vault
Do yall not use disrupting shout?
its so good when pulling big packs and the casters stop moving. It gives you a lot of control of the packs and is a life saver so often, i run it often
drowsy shale
Anyone done much ptr how warrior feeling for raid tank in the mythic
warm plinth
Is there a reason the haste belt is BiS for us (like is it over budget or someth...
Sims better. And it's just one tier 1 delve
unborn island
Fair, so it's a sim it question, I will do just that, was wondering if there was something about stat budgets or something that might have made it different.
Thanks
remote anchor
Anyone done much ptr how warrior feeling for raid tank in the mythic
did it on hc and it was fine
kind urchin
I didn't get to do any raid testing yet. Had to work. It's pretty solid in the new dungeon so far though.
mortal cypress
I didn't get to do any raid testing yet. Had to work. It's pretty solid in the...
I watched a bit of nexus price testing but I had no sound and it was a Shadow Priest PoV.....boss looks interesting
*prince
dusty bison
Hey, trying out prot warrior after maining pala for a while. Enjoying it but I'm struggling with getting aoe threat quickly before dps start blasting cooldowns. If my aoe taunt is on CD what's your generic rotation for getting threat quickly in an aoe pull?
Know it's a skill issue just not sure what I should be doing lol
warm plinth
Thunderous Roar is up for almost every pull and will give you a bit of snap threat. Crackling Thunder can help if you're not already running it (makes TC range 50% larger)
cerulean tusk
Thunderous Roar is up for almost every pull and will give you a bit of snap thre...
final gust
Whirlwind
cyan bronze
Whirlwon
waxen quarry
kind urchin
Lol
strong forum
That assumes people actually pressing the 1button consistently and consecutively
So people will, in fact, not perform at a 75% level
The people will continue to interrupt their rotation, miss gcds and run around headless
restive oak
i hit the dummies with it on prot, i thought the apl seemed kinda bad
solar skiff
popcorn
Can you acualy track who uses it and who dosen't? maby a lot of ppl are just bad at pressibg one button.
I tried it on fury and it was like 300k loss
pallid quiver
The people will continue to interrupt their rotation, miss gcds and run around h...
It's always wild to me to see people just rout in video games
frosty mango
We call this whirlwinning
rancid sedge
just break my rookery 18s again on 3%
key was clean, 6min for last boss, but one dps die as soon we use lust and lose all cds
frosty mango
Can you acualy track who uses it and who dosen't? maby a lot of ppl are just bad...
In a way yes, because the gcd is predictable you can fish logs and see pretty easily who is using it
But I’m not sure wcl offers a way to get at that data easily
Maybe with queries, pins
The gcd would also be haste dependent so it’s definitely identifiable with the data we have im just not sure we have an easy method to analyze it to get the result
small steeple
uh what? whirlwind? lol
frosty mango
uh what? whirlwind? lol
Whirlwinning
frosty mango
I tried it on fury and it was like 300k loss
It’s super duper bad on arms, it’ll send your collateral on like one mob
small steeple
so in other words, 3 / 4 wow players are bad
shocking new Bill, anyway next at 11 is
warm plinth
we did it bois
round cliff
we did it bois
ur up to where im at lmao
im only 3024
i got my 3k and was like fuck it idc anymore
runic granite
popcorn
I don’t believe it. If you are using it on a caster and the highest priority spell has a cast time, you will literally not cast anything at all while moving
undone beacon
we did it bois
Now go for triple threat >:3
warm plinth
ur up to where im at lmao
Just did my first 14 too kek
not one of the hard ones though; it was WS
warm plinth
i havent done a 14 yet lolll
2 14s now 
near salmon
I'm really struggling with +14 ToP. bricking a otherwise smooth run on last boss at 50% is just so heartbreaking.
that big cast from the boss can now just 1-shot dps
rancid sedge
anyone can share a route for CB?
warm plinth
that big cast from the boss can now just 1-shot dps
idk how people don't know to press a defensive on that mechanic lol. It's one of two things that even do group damage on that fight
near salmon
idk how people don't know to press a defensive on that mechanic lol. It's one o...
i dont know either. But that happens a lot.
slim dove
tbh it's week 6322 and most people still progging 14s are absolute gremlins
warm plinth
well, we tried to do 15 and 14 priory but I'm so new to that dungeon that I fucked it XD but the group was hella chill and were showing me the pulls and stuff. My friend and I queued into a lovely 3-man guild group and did like 5 keys with them
slim dove
12 ToP I just did, farming crests. Paladin stood in every mechanic he could
warm plinth
Considering I was only aiming for 3k, I am not mad at this result lol
You have to do 12s to get max crests
?
slim dove
12s give 20 gilded and are pretty brain-off to spam
round cliff
Considering I was only aiming for 3k, I am not mad at this result lol
higher than me now
heavy sparrow
Finally timed floodgate on 17
Grats dude that's wild
warm plinth
Nice job!
loud niche
do you think prot warrior will have a spot in the next season raid ?
nocturne spindle
Unless your like hall of fame level tanking
Most tank spots in raids are very guild determined and class isn't super important
And if your out of that range pretty much any tank is always viable
sharp gale
If you talk about the world first, it depends on dps warrior
violet ginkgo
do you think prot warrior will have a spot in the next season raid ?
Yes why not? I mean if you are in the guild they can just take you, especially if you just doing heroic, all tanks will work just fine.
sharp gale
Even in mythic, if someone can survive tankbusters with the worst ilvl ever the first week, any other tank spec can do the same after
The only weird part is if a Strat involves a bdk
urban portal
raid is also balanced around the worst tank
runic granite
Which tank you have in raid just usually doesn’t matter
nocturne spindle
well
theres potential jank skips with prot pal as well too
cheese a better word maybe?>
runic sleet
Finally timed floodgate on 17
nice one dude, that dungeon is so unecesarily anoying for tank. especialy if you are puging (idk if you are though)
sharp gale
cheese a better word maybe?>
Yes ofc but they are less restrictive / painful than no bdk
loud niche
for guilds aiming for ranks, warrior and pala made things easier this season
do you think something similar will happen next season ?
sharp gale
do you think something similar will happen next season ?
Pala prot is auto slotted, so it will likely be either other tank or bdk, I don’t think Blizz will redo the error to forget the dk raid buff once again
frosty wave
Fuck 15s are really hard
15s keys
I honestly mean keys
I feel there is a real gap in difficulty between 14 and 15
Is there something that change ?
placid oar
Don't think so sir
surreal wing
Hi all! I started playing on a warrior tank for the first time, can you tell me now what are the most current builds of the talent tree for raids and instances?
vale escarp
there is a channel called #protection-faq just check it
frigid valley
Is there something that change ?
Overtime the baddies gain enough IO through just beeing carried through keys by 4 good players and reach a certain key lvl where their lack of skills determine how well the key will go, add enough of these ppl in same group and you have a group of chaos, meanwhile the better players often this late either do weekly 12s or higher than 15s
strong forum
exceedingly likely
silk trail
which 2 trinkets would u suggest for m+? pacemaker looks like the first choice but for 2nd slot everyone uses something different, i still have 1 turbo boost token left for to decide.
strong forum
tome/bombsuit/house of cards
frosty mango
which 2 trinkets would u suggest for m+? pacemaker looks like the first choice b...
Time for damage, bomb suit for defense
Most swap them around depending on key
cerulean tusk
I like mud 
For M+, Tome+Pace/Mud/Bomb
(or the stern, if you want to huff that 'I am aug' value)
mellow bridge
cerulean tusk
it is 1.5% overall for everyone but you its some value
During the proc you give about 8-11% mainstat bonus dam, it got an uptime for about 10%.
It isnt insane, but it also aint super bad per se. But you lose so much value on yourself
strong forum
it only buffs 1 person at a time
rancid sedge
would u guys use heroic house of cards or mythic Tome of Light's Devotion for mythic+ keys
strong forum
house
tome translates poorly into aoe, but its huge on ST
house is good at both and has defensive benefits for big pulls
rancid sedge
house
my current, gear still have one coin, prob nothing to buy
maybe the ring, but dont think the heroic version worth it
frigid valley
should be possible to pug and kill rik and purcase shield perhaps
undone beacon
maybe the ring, but dont think the heroic version worth it
Can sim it but prob not
Be a rebel and buy myth track Armor Plating >:3
Or if you really have nothing else buy the hero jet pack for mog
tawny drift
does the dungeon slice sim works for protwarr?
rancid sedge
on CB, the snap with Yes Man mobs, why one scientist not snapping?
do i need to do something?
jagged pier
does the dungeon slice sim works for protwarr?
No
lime urchin
house is good at both and has defensive benefits for big pulls
and how does this house compare to bombsuit (considering no myth track options from raid)
I suppose bombsuit is better defensive and house is more allrounder?
frosty mango
and how does this house compare to bombsuit (considering no myth track options f...
Bombsuit is basically purely defensive and is one of the best defensive trinkets ever made
House has good aoe burst potential while also raising defense via
Critical block
opaque ibex
Why is mythic gally goes after 2nd tank after tank bombsd, even after taunt
frigid valley
Why is mythic gally goes after 2nd tank after tank bombsd, even after taunt
🍝 code
frigid valley
yup.
some people say taunt last millisecond, some say just after cast finished, some say walk backwards while taunting, some say taunt halfway through cast.
Just find your favorite lie and hope it'll stick
opaque ibex
xD
frigid valley
im going with the jump while taunting at 0.2
opaque ibex
i ll go with backflip while taunting irl
that will work 4sure
still works 50/50
god damn
grim pilot
on CB, the snap with Yes Man mobs, why one scientist not snapping?
Dk grip
Just the way it is
drowsy shale
I found taunt at 75% his cast most consultant but yeah it’s all smoke and mirrors he will still just run at times
jagged pebble
can someone tell me what luxthos means ego check doesnt matter for prot warriors? it eats me alive
like that shit is chunking me crazy
frosty mango
can someone tell me what luxthos means ego check doesnt matter for prot warriors...
Basically all of the gally skills are blockable
Ego check has two components and both are blockable (one block one spell block)
If you’re getting destroyed, do you have shield block up and are you facing the boss?
toxic pewter
Anyone know how the renown for the raid works.. haven’t raided in months does it have a catchup mechanic
torn gulch
yes
you can do 2 renown levels per week
if you clear the entire raid as far as i know
toxic pewter
Oh god only 2 in a week I see
Shoot im not even sure I can get max before the season ends then oof
jagged pebble
If you’re getting destroyed, do you have shield block up and are you facing the ...
think thats the problem
thank you
sick sentinel
hey is doing good in solo shuffle mean you are good in pvp
neon elk
Yo fellas, what ilvl can i farm in arathi ? For alts
tribal wharf
im not sure what it was i did wrong with the hold to cast
but it never seemed to work the way i wanted
that feature got introduced, and i think i tried to use it on mage or something, and it seemed extremely limited
cuz i asked/memed about the 1 button thing and someone brought that part of it up, or well casters
grim pilot
In terms of grip, we don't have grip
idk then
tribal wharf
the way i imagine i would use it, is like, i cant remember what the name was but it was a big robot that runs downs stairs and its a dps race halondrus
i would use the 1 button during movement parts of that
sick sentinel
ive been foolingaround on my brewmaster tank, now that i have been playing it for a few days it seems that brewmaster has better damage mitigation than prot warrior am i wrong
brewmaster damage spells lower the cd on its purifying brews and celestial brews making them spammable
also you can spec brewmaster to reduce cd on brews by your autoattacks
and magic damage reduc is 58 percent of my stagger
warm plinth
Brewmaster by definition does not mitigate damage
So no, they do not mitigate more damage than we do
sick sentinel
well ok but evens it oout
makes the damage more healable
its burst that kills tanks
warm plinth
I'd rather just not take the damage
sick sentinel
brew wont get bursted
warm plinth
instead of making the damage easier to heal
sick sentinel
you can clear the stagger damage by casting purifying brew which is spammable
so basically the 'damage' you arent mitigating is still disappearinb
by casting purifying brew you also cast aoe damage
its not like im holding on to purifying brew to wait fotr the magical moment that my stagger goes above a certain percentage
i cast purifying brew on cd
warm plinth
I'm no expert, but what makes purifying brew do damage?
sick sentinel
yeah its a talent in the tree
you cast it then it hurls a keg in the air that does fire damage aoe to monsters in 8 yards radius
its a huge part of my overall damage
warm plinth
Oh, that's any brew, not just purifying brew. That's why I was confused haha.
sick sentinel
you can also talent purifying brew to heal for 25 percent of stagger damage
yes
as i spam purifying brew the 'real' cd is prob like 5 or 6 seconds
aboout the same as thunderclap
also brew have this passive that increases the healing you take by 70 percent based off your crit chance
so if you have 25 percent crit then you have 25percet chance to get healed by 70 percent increased on next heal
i mean warrior is a good tanking class
warm plinth
Like I said, I'm not an expert. But the answer to your question is that Brew does not mitigate more damage than Pwar, because their design is not to mitigate damage, but to delay it.
warm plinth
You can't clear all of the delayed damage; not even close.
sick sentinel
so essentially you aretaking no damage
warm plinth
That is far from true.
sick sentinel
ok but you can also cast celestial brew
warm plinth
Look at any log comparison and you'll see that brew has FAR more damage taken per second than prot warrior.
That doesn't make brew bad. It just makes them different. They're intended to take more damage, so they have tools to handle it.
Just like blood DK will take more damage because their design is that they take it and then heal it back.
sick sentinel
i think brews toolset also allow it to handle magic damage better than prot warrior
mainly because you can also stagger a large portion of magic damage
cyan bronze
i don’t think comparing tank mits kits one to one is generally a productive conversation
brew deals with damage in very different ways than prot warrior
sick sentinel
yeah
when i play as prot i feel like its alot of work
making sure i have 100 percent uptime on shield block
then dumping rage into ignore pain
cyan bronze
prot has better mit than brewmaster, however, what you may be actually referring to is survivability
sick sentinel
but having enough to maintain shield block again for 100 pewrcent uptime
warm plinth
It's interesting that you say that since brew consistently gets knocked for its 8 billion rotational buttons
sick sentinel
i duno thats what all the websites say
sick sentinel
you gotta have that 100 perceent uptime
warm plinth
Ignore Pain is nothing more than an afterthought; it shouldn't cost you brainpower.
cyan bronze
@warm plinth can I press whirlwind and slam
is it like, don’t press one without the other thing
warm plinth
Sure, but I would plan on things not going super well.
sick sentinel
in terms of just flat survivability should i go colossus or mountainthane
colossus has the increase to crit shield blocks
and 5 percent damage reduc
20 percent increase to ignore pain but at the cost of generating less rage
frosty mango
i don’t think comparing tank mits kits one to one is generally a productive conv...
I’m not sure that’s fair
Every tank has an active mitigation, a a smoothing tool, and a self recovery tool
cyan bronze
Sure it’s just not what makes a tank good necessarily
frosty mango
The ways those tools contribute to the overall effective damage reduction strategy is different but it’s the same three levers
pulsar belfry
does anyone know where to find a good spell reflect WA?
cyan bronze
Yah and each of those active mit tools is a fair bit different enough that I don’t think it’s easily comparable
frosty mango
does anyone know where to find a good spell reflect WA?
Wago, search “spell reflect essentials”
pulsar belfry
bet ty. seen pika and the like use something before. Im assuming that is it?
frosty mango
Yah and each of those active mit tools is a fair bit different enough that I don...
How so, ironfur = shield block = shield of the righteous = fel spikes = stagger
The method of applying them is different but functionally they all move towards the same goal, a mitigation tool you need to actively manage
cyan bronze
Stackable spammable armor, 100% phys block, idk how sotr works, armor parry, staggger
frosty mango
Yes and in order to put up block (which mitigates all incoming phys damage) you press a button
Stagger is just the reverse
You press a button
But functionally it’s the same play imo
You press shield block, you press purifying brew
How they mitigate isn’t relevant in comparing as much as how they play - at least when comparing them in that way
frosty mango
bet ty. seen pika and the like use something before. Im assuming that is it?
Most likely
He’s in this channel he may answer you
round cliff
Brewmaster by definition does not mitigate damage
they do mitigate a lot of damage u know
they still have a fuckton of armor and DR abilities
warm plinth
Context matters. He asked if brew mitigated more than prot warrior. They do not.
Every tank has some mitigation
The point of the statement was that they are not a mitigation tank
warm plinth
It's not. You didn't select any gems besides the meta gem, so it's only putting the meta gem in
You're simming against no gems in your gear and changing the meta gem which without other gems are identical.
frosty mango
The point of the statement was that they are not a mitigation tank
I mean wouldn’t they be the tank that mitigates the most?
warm plinth
No?
frosty mango
Stagger is not mit?
warm plinth
No
jagged gust
So wait how do I swap meta gems without simming against all other gem combos? Because I already have 4 colours
warm plinth
Probably the easiest way would be to do a gear compare sim and just use your identical helm with the other meta gem
frosty mango
Dunno I’d consider stagger mit if you purify it but I can see how you might also say it isn’t
It’s only mit if you purify 🤣
warm plinth
But why would you assume anything but a loss of dps if you are playing speed meta instead of the crit damage one
Speed gem is 0 dps, crit damage gem is dps
frosty mango
But why would you assume anything but a loss of dps if you are playing speed met...
Because tier list said speed gem is s tier therefore it’s better
jagged gust
oh I can swap with the gem id i tink
jagged gust
But why would you assume anything but a loss of dps if you are playing speed met...
Well I wanted to quantify the diff
warm plinth
Ah
jagged gust
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tk6iDkgGtNxMpxaSkPrkYq
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aMhvXtkDg2szDzLgh3FUKf
Okay cool, editing the gem id worked I think
warm plinth
No reason it wouldn't. You basically just did a gear compare with extra steps
chilly brook
No
Stagger is definitely mitigation in that the intent is for you to purify and remove it off the table at some amount
warm plinth
What spell prevents damage from happening?
chilly brook
Purifying brew but it does nothing without stagger
warm plinth
You say that like you have to press stagger
chilly brook
You don’t have to press it but proper management of it is actually important
warm plinth
No one's stopping you if you want to call stagger mitigation.
kind urchin
Stagger is part of the mitigation toolkit for brew. It isn't by itself mitigation. It doesn't prevent any damage.
frosty mango
You say that like you have to press stagger
do you have to press something to get stagger up
i dont really now how to play brew I just play it
I know I press tiger palm after blackout kick and I press purify when I have high normalized stagger
warm plinth
do you have to press something to get stagger up
Nah stagger is a brewmaster passive. It just happens
frosty mango
i swear you gotta do something related to stagger
warm plinth
Used to have ironskin brew which I think increased the percentages
And now you have uh...shuffle or something?
which is basically bonus stagger % by doing your rotation properly
Or well, realistically just for pressing buttons
not even properly
frosty mango
yeah shuffle
pallid quiver
Yeah, shuffle's applied by Blackout Kick and Keg Smash, iirc
As long as you are pressing those buttons in any reasonable timeframe, you get shuffle, which makes stagger not pitiful
kind urchin
It's not completely passive. You do have to keep shuffle up. It's baked into your rotation though.
kind urchin
I miss the ironskin brew days.
jagged pebble
we havent reached it yet but can someone tell me how gallywix mythic bombs are played? i cant really find any gameplay and dratnos said their tank changed to dractyr to do it. im assigned for 5th bomb and i dont really see how to do it without dying
frosty mango
we havent reached it yet but can someone tell me how gallywix mythic bombs are p...
Why do you think you’ll die?
jagged pebble
because the bridge is missing and people say u gotta be dractyr and get grabbed back onto the arena
drowsy shale
we havent reached it yet but can someone tell me how gallywix mythic bombs are p...
Use a gust potion and get gripped/rescued back to the platform… idk if you can heroic leap back I was a bear when I did the bomb deposits
I assume it’s depositing bomb into the coil that you are referring to
candid vortex
Just got hit by Electrocrush for 15m with shield block up but no ignore pain.. do I need both up for it to not one shot?
candid vortex
just sww that :x
mighty valley
tankbusters are usually asking for a real CD
frosty mango
because the bridge is missing and people say u gotta be dractyr and get grabbed ...
I believe you could also time spiral -> double leap?
jagged pier
we havent reached it yet but can someone tell me how gallywix mythic bombs are p...
gust of winds pot, if u arent drac
then u need a rescue or a grip back
sharp merlin
Just got hit by Electrocrush for 15m with shield block up but no ignore pain.. d...
Hardest hitting mechanic this on any tank - you need Wall up for it at least
sick sentinel
How’s prot looking on ptr for next season for m+ wondering if I should relevel warrior as brew/dh gets boring
jagged pier
just plsy what u enjoy all tanks will be fine, just find what u like the best
sick sentinel
I mean I played prot in high keys before but just wondering if looking good, not tried new talents and still level 70 from DF just came back to wow
jagged pier
depends what u mean by 'high keys' thats dictated by meta which changes abouyt a month into the patch and some more times too (sometimes) so cant say, but warrior isnt looking like it wil be the meta tank
but all tanks are fine even for title pushing the community would say otherwise tho
sick sentinel
3-4k Rio in DF but I’ve not seen prots playing above 10s in GF, however I saw one dude do a 22 on RIO
Eh guess I level it, I do miss prot
sharp merlin
but all tanks are fine even for title pushing the community would say otherwise ...
Heavily agreed, I love the tank balance across the 4 tank specs we have in the game 😄
In DF, I remember VDH had double sigils, the most armour, the most dmg, it was super broken, if you weren't VDH you were basically kidding yourself
heavy sparrow
3-4k Rio in DF but I’ve not seen prots playing above 10s in GF, however I saw on...
10s or 22s now was 21 and 45 then
sick sentinel
10s or 22s now was 21 and 45 then
I mean i dont see prots over 10 in key group finder
But saw one do 22
Im just going up to 14+ now
As was gearing
But i finished 3.4k s3 in Dragonflight
I saw apparently prot is 2nd best tank on score so f it im levelling it up again
ionic fern
Still chill on PTR.
sick sentinel
Actually yeah i should just play on ptr im dumb
limber temple
Those on PTR, Anyone tried Thane? How is Thane feeling? As a Thane enjoyer, I'm a bit discouraged by the lack pizazz in the tier. Think it will get changed?
ionic fern
Thane is exactly the same as on live.Tier just sucks.
The effect is really lackluster compared to Colossus,which is already doing more damage.
limber temple
I just want to be the Thundergod I was promised 😦
strong forum
Thane has to get changed or it'll be a meme tier
sharp gale
Thane set 100% get changed or else
Thane will not be played unless they boost by 5000% the strikes
drowsy shale
thane set just doesnt keep up number wise? like reset and more tc sounds alright but just doesnt keep up with the crits on colo?
sharp gale
It doesn’t keep up + not fun, at least compared to fury slayer one
I didn’t play prot yet on ptr
But 0.2% of fury dps is the strikes, I think just the flat increase of some spells of (4) slayer is better
sharp merlin
So next tier I'm probably not gonna tank the raid in my guild, if you were playing Prot in M+, what is the better offspec?
I assume, Arms?
cedar kite
Thane has to get changed or it'll be a meme tier
Thane is fine :D
sharp merlin
Windwalker
ahaha I don't wanna have to gear 2 different characters start of the season
vocal cave
I like thane set, if it gets 1000% buff and translate better to ST 🙂
strong forum
it just needs to make your next TB do 50-100% more dmg and dont consume a charge
and make TC/TB do more dmg if it strikes 2 or less targets
voila
or just do X% more dmg to your target
cerulean tusk
I say just make it a static effect with flare. As you can make tier memorable through animation and sound.
(2) TC have enemies hit struck with 4-6 ionizing bolts each doing 35% ap damage and ionizing them. Thunderous blast doubles the AP value.
(4) When ionizing bolt hit a target with 10 or more ionizing, instantly get a thunderous blast charge.
Clap clap clap clap 👏
delicate nebula
quick question, new to this pec, it seems there are a couple of buttons that is never used normally right? I recall whirlwind, bleed, and one with the hammer icon?
stone tundra
Whirlwind is never used. Rend is applied by thunderclap, hammer is your st stun, so you use it
Or 3target if skilled as thane
ionic fern
quick question, new to this pec, it seems there are a couple of buttons that is ...
Slam is the "hammer" icon I believe. And correct,it's never used.
delicate nebula
got it, thx all
small steeple
Thane has to get changed or it'll be a meme tier
Is the thane tier broken? I’ve seen/heard
people say it’s either broken or just so bad it appears broken
stone tundra
Is the thane tier broken? I’ve seen/heard
people say it’s either broken or just ...
Atleast on fury it did like 0.2% of your damage and it felt just lackluster
strong forum
Yeah no that checks out
20% AP is ridiculously small
Like ridiculously
That's less than base TC
And base tc hits for like 20k
stone tundra
But but, 50% more on 4set..!!