protection

[frosty wave]

I'll Switch spec now then ?

I'm just having fun

[strong forum]

The very very large difference in other tanks is

They are meant to heal and have ways to top off themselves regardless of how many enemies

Our "improved self healing" with fbv is a small linear heal

In single target it won't do anything

Vs burst it won't quickly top you back up

Dk? Death strike
Vdh? Souls
Pally? Wog/still has spell block
Bear? Frenzied Regen
Monk? Expel harm

Pwar? 20% heal with a 25sec CD

[frosty wave]

To be honest I don't really care about the changes
I'm in a big era of playing "human fighter" feelings
Sword and shield going bonk me like

[strong forum]

So expecting a little passive linear hot to outweigh being able to reduce a 25million hit down to 1 million

Is uh, not it

[frosty wave]

I put wood in the fire for the debate but I know I'll still play it in s3

[strong forum]

Nobody is saying anything else

[dusky canopy]

Warrior can’t be strong we know this

[frosty wave]

From what I've read so far here it seems prot warrior is a dead spec

[strong forum]

That's an exaggeration

[frosty wave]

BFA Pwarrior was something

[shut summit]

as dead as it always is

[strong forum]

^

Bfa pwar is dogshit trash water compared to what we are now

Every tank was just so hilariously weak

That in back thens comparison pwar looked strong

It's the comparison within bfa where it was strong, but by all means it was multiple times weaker than current pwar

[pallid quiver]

This is really the key aspect; tanks as a whole are very strong and all are quite capable of content. There's none tyhat are in legitimate struggle bus territory. Community perception may disagree,

but people are stupid, hype-driven machines that love drama

always have been for tens of thousands of years

[frosty wave]

Your forgot something

Meta slave followers

[tribal wharf]

bfa mentioned

u need at least 40% versa to get into MY key

bro

[rancid tiger]

Prot will do dmg if we can live

[small steeple]

What’s DDA?

[tribal wharf]

doom dark ages, but the game itself is a bit RAW

doesnt work well without good pc or console

[small steeple]

Ah. I don’t think my pc could run it. I got a 2070 super so kinda dated now

[tribal wharf]

they didnt cook dark ages enough, still, everything that involves the shield

i feel like, thats how i want to feel in wow as pwar

[frosty mango]

Fbv could be 300% of deep wounds damage and it wouldn’t make a difference really in the scope of functionally completing higher and higher keys.

Yes it would make us basically invulnerable on trash but is that really any different than we are now?

[tribal wharf]

im all for the execute changes, i would often get blamed in key for hitting too many executes

whats that, it's excute time? thats only GCD i hit from then on

[frosty mango]

Deep wounds (fbv) won’t heal you when you’re dead, or when you’re getting blasted with more damage than it can reliably overcome which can absolutely happen with magic damage

[tribal wharf]

i know i would catch hell for thinking of it and saying it but im going to do it anyway, reprisal, but for execute

[frosty mango]

Or when you don’t have enough deep wounds to actually make it do much healing - I could totally see brv being a pick if the damage profile of some bosses necessitated it

[topaz latch]

spec dead

but in all seriousness, the new ravager talent looks interesting

i should get on ptr

[dusky canopy]

Inb4 Prot totally owns like every patch

[topaz latch]

another season of prot pally dwarf?

[weary kayak]

Hey , new to prot warrior and really want some perspectives on how to do better!
At the moment I find myself really struggling with the first pull of Floodgate, I want to group the mobs together, but find that really clunky/ slow, and also I just collapse from all the damage going on! I had shield block and ignore pain up, probably should have shield wall'd in hindsight? Also just advice on how to group the mobs is super appreicated, as I feel I struggle to group them up for my DPS In time etc. all the while Im getting hit in the back (which obviously means Im not blocking as I should!)
Curious if anyone has advice? (Doing 13/14s).

[solid sun]

Gathering mobs is the hardest and most annoying part of playing prot warrior imo

[weary kayak]

Like I charge & thunderclap, but sometimes things just go a bit chaotic and mobs start running to DPS as well

[slim dove]

It looks like 1 less button to press

Ravager talent*

[solid sun]

If you charge and t.clap and some of those mobs are hitting your dps, they're popping off way too early

There are going to be some silly geese that just don't know how to wait and they're going to die and that isn't your fault

You can charge and t.clap a group, you can charge again and roar, you can leap and t.clap again, and you also have taunt and heroic throw

[tranquil night]

I'm currently mostly playing dh with some light prot warrior but What I had to do was show my dps a video of Kira doing that pull and yelling at his team to not dps for like a full minute lol.

[solid sun]

Plus revenge

[weary kayak]

Thats pretty handy to bear in mind- thanks for the tips!

[strong forum]

[frosty wave]

I did a macro that I post in /p before doing keys "I am a prot warrior i dont have a problem getting aggro but I have a problem gathering mobs so please wait until you burst 🙂 "

[frosty wave]

What I suggest is running in first pack
Throw to the second closest
Charge clap the 3000
Throw/Roar the last pack
Charge back the first pack and clap and when everyone is gathered close enough clap again and/or aoe taunt

[dusky canopy]

That sounds insane

[frosty wave]

That's what I do in 14
Plus friendly reminder to DPS doesn't hurt so I gather everything then press my lust macro and off we go
I struggle more on the second pull

[frosty wave]

I am
I am also insanely horrible at this game

[dusky canopy]

Nah I mean you do 14s that’s plenty good at the game

Just sounds like insane gathering

[frosty wave]

Insane good or bad ?

I bricked it because of body pull in the stairs before the 2 3000 and a failed bubbles skip that I will never try again

[dusky canopy]

Idk man when I tank I heroic throw a pack, body pull a pack with a shield slam or something and charge off to the third pack

Once it piles in full send all buttons

And Zug

[frosty wave]

I don't body pull enough

Oh throw ravager on second/third pack to keep aggroI forgot

[frank crystal]

bruh i bricked a 16 because is accidentally charged into the second bosses aoe circles in priory. mistakes will be made

[small steeple]

yum

I love juicy executes, so sad to see Juggernaut gone but some possibly interesting talents

[frosty wave]

That's not what my friends doing 17-18 tell me

[small steeple]

oh man instead of being the top 0.5-1% you're only top 2-5%? total trash

[ocean smelt]

Well to put it into perspective, timing all 14 puts you around top 5%

[warm plinth]

Friends? You sure that's the right word?

[frosty wave]

Yes they are, they helped me a lot improving and helped me on the routes but they are kinda right I did TOP 14 which is not a hard route

I also bricked a ML 12 because I was improvising too much

Maybe my message was not said the proper way

[slender bison]

If you did 14s before turbo boost, yeah, now you need 16s (3.4k)

[frosty wave]

Turbo boost ?

[strong forum]

+6ilvl on everything

[slender bison]

And what's the issues you have at Floodgate 1st pull? You have 3 charges and a leap. Just have shield block up and don't sit with back to mobs. Clap and revenge and roar and just gather mid and you're done. Mobs will come to you

If you have a Balance, always disrupt shout before for Surveyors to stack (same as Meka floor). Then balance can solar beam all of them

[frigid valley]

reasonable that hc hoc sims higher than myth signet?

[strong forum]

ofc

signet sucks

hoc is bis

[slender bison]

You lose credibility. Learn to gather. More APM

[sharp merlin]

yeah, the biggest learning curve was that disrupting shout didn't help with threat

[slender bison]

You also have threat buff from a week ago. Warrs with gathering issues still have 2 charges up or 60 rage and no revenge casts

[frosty wave]

I know I am a piece of shit anyway

[slender bison]

Because muscle memory is on clap

[sharp merlin]

only issue I have is caster mobs and the person with a ranged kick can't be fucked doing it

[frosty wave]

I would clap a muscle mommy too you know

[sharp merlin]

and then the dps are like, why you no gather that caster mob.. NO WHY U NO INTERRUPT CASTER MOB SO HE COMES TO ME?

[frosty wave]

Hoc or tome?

[frosty wave]

You're the kind of person that doesn't understand that people can struggle because everything is so easy to you
You make others feel bad by being condescending but it's fine

[strong forum]

hoc for aoe, tome for st

[slender bison]

How am I condescending if I literally told you the tools. Overthinking over text chat.

[sharp merlin]

To be fair, he's not wrong. but there are also plenty of excellent pov videos of first pulls - I always have a look at how others do it and apply it

[frosty wave]

Yeah just gotta learn

[sharp merlin]

but that's the beauty of this game, you learn something always, it's the stubborn mofos who ruin it who don't wanna learn

I found out the other day that any sigil on the DH can actually reduce magic dmg, making big Momma easier (and I don't even play DH tank)

[slender bison]

Curious if they rework Bubbles/Knights and or PSF right side in S3

[frosty wave]

Because I don't have any issues, other have and I've explained how he can improve you say "just do that" as it's obvious and easy
It's not for some

[slender bison]

Or architects also

[shut summit]

knights and priory right side are diff on ptr already

so ye

[slender bison]

Sweet

[sharp merlin]

The Knight? You mean the Prio mob which is always kept last alive?

[slender bison]

Technically you pull her with Suleyman and he has higher prio

And the upper patrol you skip, so basically 1 knight max

[small steeple]

what changed?

[nocturne spindle]

sense cheating how you get dungeon access

[slender bison]

Think you got heroic until next week

[frosty mango]

Na no shot you kill the knight first lol

Suley will always be alive last and knight is the most dangerous mob so prio knight is the fastest way to reduce risk to zero

[shut summit]

the left side mini-boss got like more absorb on her shield or something, knight impale got initial hit and duration reduced, right side mini-boss doesn't snare anymore, something like that

just datamining so could be more

[frosty mango]

Right side still doodoo

[near salmon]

interesting. Sounds like we will be going right next season then?

[small steeple]

lol

[frosty mango]

The duality of man warrior

[near salmon]

lol

[frosty mango]

He stops too much to make it an efficient pull, plus right side trash is all those shitty bleed jumping lynxes

The left side boss even with higher shield can be dragged to whatever pack you want and efficiently blown up

IMO

Plus the reflective shield is essentially a healer mechanic, it’s only acutely dangerous for like mm hunters

And that’s a byproduct of the tier bonus

[near salmon]

This is a good point. I wasn't thinking of this.

[slender bison]

Yes, but he's easier with Dailcry than Emberlanz. The right side for melee/Phys comp is a breeze

...for Prot warr

I did right side 14 and a enha shaman was "LMAO never went here all season"

[near salmon]

And did he end up liking the right side route you did ?

[slender bison]

Idk, its pug, we timed it, so prob yes.

[near salmon]

nice

[slender bison]

That was like months ago

I did right side until 14s and switched left side when I started skipping knights and pulling Aymia with the mobs from her area

You can't cleave pull right boss with others too consistently due to the fire insta shots. But can be done

After his nerf 6 weeks ago

Lynx are only scary to clothies. Phys/melee comp deleted everything right side too

[patent osprey]

The only tank that convincingly do right side if they choose is Prot Pal 🙂 Or else you will always inevitibly get a bad overlap on the first boss where they pounce during emberstorm and its death

so ur commiting 1-2 brezes first boss if you choose to go right

[slender bison]

Bad overlap? Like boss lynx + fireball?

[patent osprey]

Savage Mauling + emberstorm

on first boss

[slender bison]

Idk, no issues. Just do it 💪🏽

(Next season)

[shut summit]

ye if that overlap is prevented i would go right instantly

[round cliff]

lightning struck my house again

fried my router again

[slender bison]

Average Thane enjoyer

(sry)

[dusky canopy]

Man you gotta get a battery back up or something

I have my router and PC running through one just for that reason

[kind urchin]

You don't have your router on a surge protector?

[uncut burrow]

I get frequent brownouts in my area so a UPS is a must if you value your stuff

[slender bison]

Is this US? Grounding should fix this

[tribal wharf]

down the steet from me yesterday, something large caught fire, enough that it took the internet for whole area out for like 12 hours

electric, water, etc problems happen all the time

[chrome falcon]

good article @strong forum thank you for validating all of my deaths on forgotten experiments my raid team still makes fun of me

[strange lintel]

is this true

[torn gulch]

We got a wowhead article damn

Blizzard might actually pay attention

[warm plinth]

https://tenor.com/bqFWk.gif

[slender bison]

Guys, brown bubble /off - the prot paladin set is so giga buffed I need to level one just to get key invites

[dusky canopy]

I really don’t understand why they have to remove spellblock

Other tanks have equally if not more powerful defensives

[round pendant]

No one is mentioning that the only reason spell block is hard to use is because of poor game design

I know nome mentions inconsistencies in that article

but they could simply just add an indicator of damage types on mob abilities

and the "problem" is solved

[shut summit]

or it just works so u don't hafta think about it, crazy concept

[warm plinth]

🤯

[round pendant]

also they need to stop balancing things based on vibes

[tribal wharf]

hold on boys

im cookin

i've had enough

[round pendant]

well, it's SPELL block so should it just work on every spell?

[warm plinth]

Did they change discord emojis? that looks like Unreal Engine 5 discord emoji

[round pendant]

I agree but also how do you even know if something's magic currently

other than getting hit by it twice and testing it

[slender bison]

Read dungeon adventure guide - abilities section

[round pendant]

looks the same to me

[warm plinth]

Hint: it has fire, or shadow, or frost, or arcane, or chaos, or some kind of spell effect that doesn't involve the earth

PRetty good indicator that it's magic

[dusky canopy]

Exactly

[shut summit]

knowing if it's magic or physical isn't the problem, it's knowing if it's blockable

[warm plinth]

Not to mention they're often very magic-sounding in the name too

[peak iron]

GUYS WE WILL BE DOING A PROTEST IN DORNOGAL TOMORROW AT 3 PM EST - WE WILL FORCE BLIZZARD TO REVERT THE SPELLBLOCK REMOVAL SPREAD THE WORD

[round pendant]

I'm saying if they made spell block work on all magic (as in, every spell is blockable) then you'd still have the issue of not even knowing if something is magic or not

[warm plinth]

Calm down, this isn't OSRS. Besides, we have sharding

[round pendant]

because there's no indication

[nocturne spindle]

i mean they cant even make block work on phys damage

[dusky canopy]

They can’t allow us to block to much physical

[peak iron]

🦀 that's why we need literally everyone to come out en masse🦀

[dusky canopy]

Community cry’s that were to good

[round pendant]

idk what's so bad about the idea of slapping an indicator on the cast bar

You're not looking at the mobs animations and spell effects in a pull in m+ either

so you can't say "well it's purply!"

[slender bison]

What they did in Dragonflight was make all spells blockable except hand tailored ones which would had made brown tank OP. Now they want to fix it, because more and more spells are added. But Prot paladin still has it

[shut summit]

i don't think it's a bad idea, there are multiple ways they can fix it without just deleting the ability

[peak iron]

during a m+ pull im mostly thinking about the lore of the mobs and why they are doing what they are doing

[dusky canopy]

We better get a new way to mitigate spells/magic damage if we can’t have spell block

[warm plinth]

Prot paladin having it and us having it aren't the same thing really

Prot paladin's is incidental. Ours required a conscious decision.

[echo egret]

For the record, I just did a 8-mask sw run, with zero addons (to track a random freeze bug)

That showed me how the basic UI, even the revamped one, is not showing important stuff.
Like when one mob among 10 is casting Pschyc Scream.
Like when you get a gift of titans proc and how long left…

[shut summit]

like they specifically mention some abilities can't be parried/dodged/blocked in dungeon journal, they could just do that for everything

[slender bison]

Today when they add a dungeon/raid boss they have a check list if brown tank can block it or it trivializes the fight

They are tired of that

[peak iron]

we do, we get a 1/25 chance of negating the magic damage

[warm plinth]

Agreed

[round pendant]

yeah that'd be nice

[slender bison]

Prot paladin still has it, we're discussing a straw man argument from the dev side.

It's just garbage motivation for the removal

Spell reflect is still there

[warm plinth]

I'm not discussing a straw man argument lol. They are different circumstances.

[shut summit]

lol

[warm plinth]

See that's a bertter argument

better*

[peak iron]

sometimes its unclear if AMS or cloak will prevent dot application they should remove those too 🙂

[warm plinth]

They have no problem with spell reflect apparently, but they do with spell block

[peak iron]

and no im not serious

[shut summit]

ye there are tons of things in game that require knowledge like that and wanting to lessen it isn't inherently bad

but the conclusion to just delete the ability is bad

[peak iron]

yeah agreed

[warm plinth]

Right, but you have SR, turtle, hell even Feign or Blink or Invis

[peak iron]

and the fact that they keep designing more and more magic-based abilities and tankbusters that target pwar's greatest weakness while also taking away the main coping mechanism for it is kinda lame

as usual nomeratur was spittin

[knotty pewter]

spell reflect I think is slightly different in that it gives you immediate feedback that it worked or didnt work. Spell Block doesnt do that

[round pendant]

Yeah deleting the ability is dumb

I just feel like blizz kinda just balances based on vibes

[peak iron]

for me the feedback was oh i took a fuckload of damage or died guess spell block didnt work but i see what you are saying

[knotty pewter]

sure but in the first few weeks of a season in new content that doesnt happen. you cant really tell if spell block is working because nothing kills you anyway

which is why we have to log dive and spreadsheet it

whereas spell reflect gives you that nice surpise that it worked and did dam or deflected a dot

[slender bison]

We played tons of content before 2022. We will live w/o Spell Block. The problem was they gave a bullshit argument while we still have Spell Reflect which requires a mandatory WA on top of the MDR.

[peak iron]

that's fair but also broadly applicable to all kinda of interactions and tech that develop and evolve throughout a season of m+ or raid, spell block definitely a little more "arcane" than some other abilities but i think the heart of the issue is it just feels unfair to single it out when this is a symptom of a greater game design issue

maybe you will live but i will be running it down mid in protest until my precious ability is returned to me

[knotty pewter]

ams and cloack are also examples of immediate feedback

but I'd also have to point out that the argument im making isnt one that blizz made. i dont think they mentioned the lack of feedback from the spell anyhow

[slender bison]

M+ seasons become more and more competitive when it comes to tanks. Like I wouldn't pick a warrior for my key if it didnt had the damage. But being a liability in 5/8 dungeons this season is kinda whacky. I'd rather pick a better DPS and go with prot paladin. Again, 6 weeks left for KeyBreaker talent to be reworked.

[knotty pewter]

even an audio que when spell block works would go a long way

[peak iron]

true that blizzard didnt make that argument, and also worth pointing out that argument could be applied to regular block too as others have stated above

[tribal wharf]

still cookin

[knotty pewter]

yeah but shield block is shield block. you just always keep it up anyway. Spell block is a big cd.

[slender bison]

If we settle for +10% MDR to Spell Reflect in exchange for Spell Block, we really need to get dopamine from somewhere else

[urban bane]

Thanks for the write up, Nome 🫡

[knotty pewter]

i think its all likely moot anyway. I see them giving us a replacement before this is all over that effectively acts as another active magic dam dr

[peak iron]

you're supposed to and yet many new warriors do not as I have repeatedly seen both in game and on twitch - no consequences for not using it constantly in lower keys

[slender bison]

You're optimistic on the dev time they have to rework/re-add new talents. The talents are there, they just tune numbers in PTR

[strong forum]

hence why i said i can understand why

but their solution is just completely wrong

[knotty pewter]

thats not true. they make changes at these early stages all the time. we arent at the "only tuning phase" yet

[strong forum]

and like i also mentioned, just cuz spellblock is gone doesnt mean that block and sr are magically fixed either

[slender bison]

I'm trying to say that TWW is on life support. Dev time wise. People are on Midnight expac for some time. TWW writing was done 2 years ago.

[knotty pewter]

there might be some truth to that but spec tree changes will persist into midnight by and large

[slender bison]

Yes sir, but new expac gets more love, than last patch of old expac

[knotty pewter]

i think warrior is currently on someones plate and im optimistic yes

[strange lintel]

we going into the fucking world covered in void magic > warriors lose spell block

love it

[ionic yoke]

"No Protection without Spell Blockade." There you go, that's your protest message, spread the word.

[round pendant]

Can we live without it in the previous 2 years of content tho? Are you saying they designed that content with pwar in mind because I kinda doubt it. We just happened to have a tool to deal with the insane magic tankbusters they keep adding

[peak iron]

we need an expansion / patches themed around swords and axes

[round pendant]

but I am a pessimist when it comes to blizz design

[chrome falcon]

spell block works on some physical damage abilities btw

it's not about whether it's magic

[round pendant]

I mean sure but my whole point is that the game needs to be consistent and have an indication on what something is and what you can do about it

not delete the ability

[tribal wharf]

alright im droppin a nuke, if it works

[slender bison]

No, I'm saying 2 years ago they written the content/quests/lore for TWW (Before Metzen announced the saga). Now we get rework together with some Brewmasters here and there, but resources are limited, as most of the dev resources are in Midnight. This is last season and raid is 8 bosses. We have 4 dungeons from this expac (again) due to low resources, not because they are "FAN FAVORITES".

They already worked on the new talent tree. That's time spent. They will rework it without Spell Block in mind/tune numbers in the following 6 weeks.

I mean, that's the logical thing to do if you're a PM or something

[peak iron]

i think my favorite change is the random small nerf to demo shout - offset by other changes but i just like that idk

[knotty pewter]

i just wanna see last stand and thunderlord switch spots in the new tree. i think that would be much better

[slender bison]

Shhh. You wanted to say Rally Cry group buff + Bloodlust next expansion

[small steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/mhmm-reading-oh-oh-yeah-gif-14434817

[peak iron]

i would like to see bloodlust and then at least a rallying cry change where it is twice as effective in small group content same as they did with darkness

[slender bison]

I just have a feeling that this season will be prot paladin season if they dont tune its damage. Like you can't even compete with him as a prot warr now without Spell Block.

TBD

[chilly brook]

wut

[strong forum]

huh

[opaque bobcat]

him? prot paladins are female

[chilly brook]

the season will be whatever finds its way to the top after tuning

if nothing were to change it'd still be dh

not paladin

[strange lintel]

prot paladins? oh man that would be a change!

[peak iron]

its going to be a brewmaster season with the rework writing been on the wall a new era rises

[strange lintel]

/sarcasm

[peak iron]

we'll all have to go arms top get into groups

[mighty valley]

I don't understand this joke

Can't paladin characters choose whichever

[chilly brook]

brew could actually be really good but you'd need phys comps being really good to support it being "meta"

[ionic yoke]

Body type 1, body type 2*

[dusky canopy]

The joke was implying soft men play Prot paladin instead of warrior

[peak iron]

well it could happen if blizz ever gets rid of the target-capping that mostly only affects phys damage dealers now

[opaque bobcat]

ty brew

[peak iron]

probably not tho

[dusky canopy]

We’re on the internet everything is supposed to be safe place remember

[mighty valley]

women are soft men?

[tribal wharf]

ah shit

[chilly brook]

by technicality yes

[urban bane]

https://tenor.com/view/grandpa-abe-exit-confused-bye-bart-gif-7694184

[dusky canopy]

Lmao

[chilly brook]

[strong forum]

[dusky canopy]

“Of either sex”

[tribal wharf]

popcorn

[strong forum]

whats the point of discussing this here

[chilly brook]

anyways off to go bitch about how easy keys are on dh

[dusky canopy]

Mahwi going to come in swinging

[frosty mango]

Man I was gone for like

[mighty valley]

i'm just asking for clarification on a comment someone made that confused me

[frosty mango]

an hour

[tribal wharf]

3 2 1

like magic

[frosty mango]

If we’re gonna shitpost at least make it engaging

[round pendant]

That's man as in "the rule of man", etc

[dusky canopy]

Care

[solid sun]

Listen we might all be mankind

But Brew is one of a kind

[chilly brook]

https://tenor.com/view/liam-mc-ewan-what-over-my-head-over-your-head-funny-gif-13114017

[round pendant]

The jokes are so bad I don't get em

[chilly brook]

I think next season I play outlaw

[round pendant]

are they changing it at all?

I only read warrior and holy priest notes

[dusky canopy]

Killing spree doesn’t kill you anymore

[solid sun]

The guild leader's husband wants to play druid next season, so she asked me not to play bear

:(

[slender bison]

Gonna be a long queue after Stormbringer enhas

[strange lintel]

might just be a break till next expansion for me

[round pendant]

..why

[dusky canopy]

Looks fun

[round pendant]

Does your guild even do high keys or mythic raid?

Why does optimising raid buffs matter to you

[solid sun]

Nope!

[round pendant]

Play dh so you can still yoink her leather loot

out of spite

[solid sun]

I dislike dh

I'm not a fan of the kit at all

Except for double jump and glide

[round pendant]

oh wait isn't brew leather too

play brew then

[solid sun]

I could, but I wanted to play bear for easier gathering in keys

Brew sounds just as annoying as pwar in that regard

[opaque bobcat]

same. Still torn between prot or blood. Cannot decide

[ionic yoke]

I somehow feel weaker as prot pally but more useful and yet I feel stronger as pwar

[solid sun]

That's probably because ppal sucks

But pwar is great

[chilly brook]

brew ain't bad tbh the hardest part was holding aggro

not so much after the buffs

[ionic yoke]

It can do so many things that we can't though, is my point

[solid sun]

Like die?

[dusky canopy]

Brew was peak when you could toss the keg unlimitedly

[solid sun]

:)

[jagged gust]

the main difference is pwar has demolish

[ionic yoke]

[ionic yoke]

True

[round pendant]

ppal has giga comfy things like tons of kicks

just squishy this season

[jagged gust]

omg there's a war tag

yoink

[opaque bobcat]

It's getting over ranged interrupt and pulls as a DK for me...only reason I ever left pwar haha

[jagged gust]

yeah, mob displacement is the major dissapointment of war for me

[nocturne spindle]

pally meld skips soon tm

[ionic yoke]

If disrupting shout wasn't a long ass cd I'd like it more

[jagged gust]

or the lack thereof, specifically

[ionic yoke]

^

[opaque bobcat]

we'll just have to gorefiend's grasp our way through the mud now. Losing abom limb is crazy work but w/e

[ionic yoke]

They have something against mass gripping, huh

[nocturne spindle]

well if we really suck against magic damage

at least i like ppal

dh can die in a fire

[jagged gust]

So MT feels kinda weird with the new tree

Feels kind of bad taking Thunderlord now

[opaque bobcat]

I was thinking tough as nails could be good. Never something I took, but maybe a decent dmg source with absolutely no cd on the return dmg

[jagged gust]

Yeah but you lose quite a few points reaching it

Even to take TL is 2 talent points that are competing with either CC, more rage, exe damage or pure stats

[ionic yoke]

Not worth taking if you're losing that many points

[undone beacon]

oh god oh fuck i decided to read the comments on Nome's wowhead post about spell block

[jagged gust]

oh you poor sweet thing

[slender bison]

Main issue now is MT gains main rage dump execute 35% which is weird, you have so many buttons to press. Also execute in general is niche in M+ outside of bosses

[haughty ibex]

I was about to read it, did you get cancer?

[jagged gust]

Swap tough as nails with Last Stand and it's the perfect tree

[undone beacon]

not just any cancer, super mega turbo cancer

[haughty ibex]

My favorite, I have lived long enough

[undone beacon]

"well i dont use spell block anyways so who cares... yeah i dont do anything more than +10s"

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/842201708230344727/1055487345337577522/skateparkge.gif

[south goblet]

loseing spell block is going to make use useless in any raid boss that has magic autos and brick us in higher keys

[nocturne spindle]

i think an interesting part of cleave execute is potential prio target damage letting you essentially get execute phase longer in big M+ pulls

might be too minor to be a factor though

[jagged gust]

There's always the chance of a council fight

[haughty ibex]

I don't understand why they effectively took a 33% up time to a 4% chance

if anything, I would up the % to reflect the talent they took away

[south goblet]

tbh im more pissed about there reasoning

"it takes to much fight knowledge to use"

so you dont get it now

[slender bison]

Nobody complains about Keybreaker. It's trash. The comparison is Vs Hunker Down (10% MDR to SR)

[jagged gust]

Well they were right, there was little logic behind what did and didnt apply to spell block

[south goblet]

yea but thats a design prob on there in not a problem with the spell itself

and in like 90% of cases it worked

[haughty ibex]

I saw that talent too, Im confused about its implementation though, will the effect linger after the first reflected spell or are you SoL after the first reflect?

[jagged gust]

The spell itself was just too strong. Block is just too strong. It's the same old story.

[nocturne spindle]

maybe they just forgot a 0 and its supposed to be 40%

🙂

[haughty ibex]

Because, in my mind, both of those new talents are hot garbage

[uncut burrow]

That’s the part that gets me. If the class is designed with that consideration in mind but is getting removed due to end user error that still leaves the need for compensation elsewhere. That passive is nice but 4% is too low unless it’s being complemented by other factors (ie increased Ignore Pain values or something)

[jagged gust]

My question is whether or not exe talents will even be taken

[south goblet]

so are they removeing the prot pally passive that does the same thing as spell block but better?

[jagged gust]

there's so many good options

[slender bison]

Spell Reflect has a window of spell reflect and one of passive MDR (I.e. big momma dots) We use spell reflect even if it's nothing to reflect.

[sweet summit]

maybe add some in game ways to show what can be blocked and what not maybe probably a good idea i think perhaps

[jagged gust]

Ppals are constantly fighting for their lives, as tanks should be.

[slender bison]

I think we'll be fine if they buff Hunker Down or give SR some CDR ( 2-4 seconds from Honed Reflexes or from successful Spell Reflects idk)

[south goblet]

and were gunna be dead on the floor or on the beanch becasue we have 0 way to deal with sustained incomong magic dmg now

[slender bison]

But Dev brains are on Midnight so S3 can be rough for warriors

[jagged gust]

You say that like SR isn't a 20s CD with a 35% MDR

[south goblet]

for 4 secs

thats 16 secs of you getting dicked by magic

[slender bison]

35% + 10% Hunker + 8% two talent points

[jagged gust]

25% uptime

[slender bison]

So basically every 20 sec you gave like 55+ % MDR

[jagged gust]

and SW already has something like a 30% uptime, you're just flat dicking most damage most of the time

plus our self heals just shot through the roof

prot is in a crazy good spot as is

[meager quail]

The whole problem with spell block could’ve been addressed with the dungeon journal being more complete (not that it exists at all for dungeon trash)

[jagged gust]

(before 4 sets of patch note nerfs)

[slender bison]

That's gonna be nerfes, you got 1M Hps in small packs, it's insane

[south goblet]

any boss with magic based autos will destroy us in the down time window 4 secs from SR isnt enough

[jagged gust]

oh yeah also the extra DR from def stance

[frosty mango]

They really didn’t

Though

[dusky canopy]

No idea why the dungeon journal doesn’t have a trash drop down with every single mob named in alphabetical order with info on what abilities it has

[jagged gust]

And %

[unkempt pier]

is it worth to not press thunder clap while shield slam is on cd to make sure to use buff on shield slam

[frosty mango]

Against one target usually yes

[meager quail]

Me neither. Add trash to the map, include CDs for kickable spells so you can easily tell how many kicks they need etc. It’d make such a difference to accessibility.

[frosty mango]

Depends on what else you have up

[opaque bobcat]

solid point 😦

[tribal wharf]

(watch on wifi to save data) perhaps my greatest cook in this discord of all.

[haughty ibex]

with that explanation, makes me more mad at Spellbreaker, like why the fuck give us that?

[jagged gust]

for flavour

just pretend it's not a choice node

[slender bison]

Again. Hunker down needs more tuning and we literally have 43% MDR in Spell Reflect windows. Take Shadowcrown in Dawnbreaker - Obsidian Beam. A giga tank buster. You spent 1 Shield Wall at the x2 packs of mobs and 1 Wall at the first Obisidian Beam. What do you do at the 2nd Obsidian Beam? Hope for AM to get you another Charge? No, you put SR and move on

[south goblet]

that 55% MDR is only up for 4 secs

[uncut burrow]

1 in 25 chance to proc but determined when by the RNG gods

[jagged gust]

like how the old talent system was 3 choices per tier, the right choice, the pvp choice and the fun choice

[strong forum]

Man some of the comments are hilarious

"wait this opinion piece sounds like an opinion"

[haughty ibex]

well, Blizzard likes the flavor of salty fluids

[jagged gust]

That's called umami

[chilly brook]

man, idk what it is but despite me having no issues surviving and being able to do stupidly large pulls all the time on DH I swear I brick way more keys in this key level than I do on my warrior lmao

[south goblet]

the problem with loseing Spell block isnt that we dont have anwsers for the burst magic dmg, its that we no longer have an anwser to sustained magic dmg that lasts longer than that 4 sec window, much less if its hitting us the whole fight

[chilly brook]

average meta slave group sucks I guess lmao

[tight hinge]

at least our damage remains stupidly high

[strong forum]

Correct denim

[strong forum]

We're losing a huge chunk of dmg with new talent tree

Like a good 10%++

In some cases more

[tight hinge]

I'm still doing considerably more than any other tank at 715. just doing first pull of floodgate on all tanks

[jagged gust]

I meaaaan, on top of the FBV buff, bloodborne is now easily talented, only 1 point and now worth 5% more than it was when it was 2 talent points

[haughty ibex]

Yeah, the new tree doesn't feel good at all

[strong forum]

And we're certain all tiersets work

?

And all new talents

[tight hinge]

nope feels janky af on some lol

[strong forum]

Yeh so like

[tight hinge]

i'm dooming hard on pwar right now but it's my favorite so I want to believe

[strong forum]

It could go either way

[haughty ibex]

What do you see as our preliminary talent build going into 11.2?

[south goblet]

all im saying is, if next raid has any boss with magic based autos. Prot war is dead on the floor and wont be playable on the bass

[tight hinge]

yeah I'm hoping we end up good

[haughty ibex]

if nothing changes?

[strong forum]

But as talents are right now, we lose a ton of revenge dmg and strength

And rage gen

Since Battering Ram gone
Best served cold, no longer picked + nerfed
Focused vigor nerfed
Enduring Alacrity nerfed

[south goblet]

witch sucks so much as out dps out put is all we really have now

[slender bison]

I like that prot pals have their own giga damage cope bubble like us

(on their 4p set)

[analog lantern]

on-point article from nome about the implications of SB removal, cheers for drawing attention to it

[tight hinge]

I shifted to a bleed focused colossus build to test because of all those revenge nerfs and honestly it's pretty comfy and strong. 5-600k rend /deep wound ticks. Would rather have revenge be bumping up again tho

hard to tell on mythic0

[sweet summit]

bfa arms jumpscare

[haughty ibex]

I see all the Execute talents like Blizzard wants us to use it, but is it really worth 3-4 points to take?

[warm plinth]

For raid, sure

[south goblet]

yea will be the same as now for execute, use it on single tar raid boss

[slender bison]

Too soon to tell. M+ also has bosses or big hp mobs. But for Thane Exe is 2nd damage source after TB

You don't even have alternatives for damage to Exe points.

[jagged gust]

I can't figure what you'd be dropping best served cold for

I can figure 1 free talent point that could be put in to exe, but after that it seems like you have to make a choice

[haughty ibex]

I am guessing Ravager is still go-to over Whirling Blades?

[peak iron]

we need to nerf fury warrior

[warm plinth]

You don't need BSC to get past 8 gate so

[jagged gust]

whirling blades is insane as is

[warm plinth]

you can put the point down farther

No way

Whirling Blades is miles better

[slender bison]

After Sims, it will be clear if ThunderLord CDR helps with booming voice 20% damage Vs full Execute build.

[warm plinth]

Not being able to place it kinda sucks but you can't not take it

It's too good

[jagged gust]

20s of ravager every minute

crazy

[meager quail]

@warm plinth As my trusted source for all things brown, what is your opinion of the prot tree reshuffle?

[undone beacon]

yeah its 5ppm rn, which is more uptime than casted ravager by a mile

[slender bison]

Also Sidearm got buffed. It will be interesting to see

[south goblet]

ngl new prot tree as is feels strange to path through

[cyan bronze]

execute talents r def played on thane for dmg in keys

at least some of them

[slender bison]

Will probably need to pick Concussive Blows + Honed Reflexes for -2 sec Pummel Cd in heavy caster dungeons

[jagged gust]

New talent tree seems incredibly flexible

[chilly brook]

doubt

[jagged gust]

I love it

[south goblet]

theres no way that 2 secs off its going to be worth the points

[silent anchor]

FoV and BB the play i think? with the buffs to them

[jagged gust]

without a doubt in current state

[haughty ibex]

It feels like a slog, like talents we usually take take away from what might be better this patch, and trying to talent for synergy just leaves a lot of usually important things in the dust

[jagged gust]

no one believes it will come out of the ptr that way though

[haughty ibex]

It better not

[cyan bronze]

just drop last stand for more points

[haughty ibex]

I have seen Blizzard do worse in Shadowlands

[silent anchor]

bye thunderlord kek

[jagged gust]

If you're willing to drop disrupt shout you can even talent both bloodsurge+instigate

[tight hinge]

yeah idk bleed collosus is insane dmg with new tier

[south goblet]

like enduring defences is now a two fking point node, just why. I thought they were moving away from 2 point nodes like this

[cyan bronze]

how is TaN dmg now

[haughty ibex]

is the increased chance for 15% more damage worth it though?

[slender bison]

7th free Pummel, you don't have Spell block bro

[silent anchor]

from what?

[chilly brook]

why would you talent spellbreaker?

[slender bison]

That armor talent gives you 240 strength and 0.% damage reduction. It's a noob trap

[silent anchor]

i had a free point kek.

[chilly brook]

if you're going to take something there Hunker Down

[south goblet]

you dead on the floor by the 7th pummel sir

[silent anchor]

i also said this to a guild friend as 4% seems kinda meh

[jagged gust]

imo, with red swap nodes

[tight hinge]

spellbreaker is just a slap in the face imo

[silent anchor]

kek where else though. its kinda just split off from EA

[cyan bronze]

Disrupting shout is good in keys

[tribal wharf]

spell breaker is half baked or the other one is overdesigned

[south goblet]

yea idk why spell breakere is there, Hunker down is always going to be better

[tight hinge]

disrupting shout is the only talent keeping us above water

[peak iron]

running spellbreaker and repeating my 20 ML 5000 times to get the one run with perfect RNG

[cyan bronze]

Hunker down seems like it’ll be mandatory for a lot of keys w magic dmg

[frosty mango]

Fbv is jack shit against 1 target

[slender bison]

Guys stop picking Armor Specialization (6%). It gives you 300 strength and worse Phys damage reduction in 6/8 Magic damage dungeon rotation

[tribal wharf]

either, add another effect to spell breaker or make it 10% chance, or equal out the amount of effects each one gives

[jagged gust]

as opposed to zero str?

[south goblet]

without spell block? yea all the MDR talents will now be manditory

[slender bison]

Free talents below

[chilly brook]

rn I assume anything in actually hard content will look something like this

[tribal wharf]

you could remove the 2% avoidance and nobody would blink

[jagged gust]

well you have to take either armor spec or magic dr

I went for the dps option

[slender bison]

You'll have trinkets which give you 20k strength

[chilly brook]

BV vs FbV IDK

[cyan bronze]

Noway u pick the armor talent and no way you don’t pick hunker down

[chilly brook]

same with Tough as Nails

[south goblet]

unless there all DPS flagged trinkets, then we only get 10k

[chilly brook]

my brother in Christ

armor is basically a str buff

[slender bison]

Sac + Pacemaker for haste and DMG/parry and you're ok for 80% of the season

[slender bison]

Bro it's 300 strength at 700 ilvl

[jagged gust]

as opposed to zero

[gentle ore]

Anyone know of a good WA for 3rd boss in motherlode? cant find any on Wago

[slender bison]

For a talent point. Enchants are strogner

[jagged gust]

300 > 0

[chilly brook]

that's not insignificant

[cyan bronze]

it’s not 300>0 tho

[jagged gust]

it literally is

[slender bison]

Spend the talent somewhere else

[chilly brook]

also 10% extra DR on SR isn't that huge

[slender bison]

And get MDR

[cyan bronze]

u are picking 300 str over hunker down

[chilly brook]

MDR?

[slender bison]

No, hunker is mandatory

[jagged gust]

4% MDR and zero str, vs 300 str

[south goblet]

i agree, hunker will be mandatory

[silent anchor]

magic damage reduction?

[jagged gust]

ye

[cyan bronze]

yeah guys we deal with magic dmg great, just spellblock!

[chilly brook]

I assure you

10% on SR is not the make or break

[jagged gust]

We wouldn't argue over 4% vers

[silent anchor]

just block

[south goblet]

even if hunker only had the 2% less AOE dmg on it, it would be mandaroty. With the loss of spell block we need all the damage mitagation we can get

[strange lintel]

" we realize spell block is useless because you should be able to block spells to start with " wishing blizzard said this eventually

[south goblet]

you mean like paly can? XD

[chilly brook]

no lol if it was just 2% aoe damage reduction it would be so beyond worthless as a talent point

[silent anchor]

would any other tank get played at this point? lol

if spells were perma blockable

[jagged gust]

well it would be equal to the other choice in the node

[slender bison]

Alacrity + Armor Specializion are noob traps. You'll have haste cap anyways by mid season. And hp doesnt matter anymore. Just like Last Stand. Mitigation is king. The question is what do you swap Battle Veteran for. Probably one of the two Execution points (far left or far right AoE)

[chilly brook]

there is no haste cap

[jagged gust]

"Shield specialization is a noob trap"

[chilly brook]

you have to take shield spec

there's no way around it

[jagged gust]

brother

[slender bison]

No, take magic one instead

[chilly brook]

block value is very valuable

[cyan bronze]

shield spec is block value

[chilly brook]

especially early season

[tribal wharf]

make that spell breaker so its if you would take damage from it you heal for a gigantic amount

[cyan bronze]

there is

no chance u drop that

[slender bison]

Apologies. Armor specialization

[jagged gust]

So it seems a lot of people here currently don't understand something very important about talent trees, when the lines are connected, it means you need to take the previous talent to unlock the ones further down the tree

[chilly brook]

majority of damage in keys is still physical

it also gives you strength

[south goblet]

sir, this is the warrior discord, you think we can read?

[cyan bronze]

it’s so little of both idk

[lyric fern]

Hey guys I heard you had an issue, something about a spell block?

[south goblet]

someone bring in a mage, this channel needs an int buff

[jagged gust]

they were asking warriors to spell in order to block

it was classist

[cyan bronze]

like

it’s less than enchant

[lyric fern]

Ah fair enough carry on

[cyan bronze]

[chilly brook]

as is going from 20% DR to 30% DR for all of 5 seconds

[undone beacon]

how do you spell block though

i am illiterate

b l o k

[jagged gust]

zuuug

[lyric fern]

Bok

[chilly brook]

but at least gaining strength makes me do more dam

one node has two benefits

[cyan bronze]

it’s a 50% increase in sr dr , in a world w/o spellblock

[chilly brook]

the other only has one

[jagged gust]

https://tenor.com/view/bounty-hunter-chicken-boba-fett-dance-spin-gif-17109974

[chilly brook]

that's not how DR works

[jagged gust]

closest gif I could find to a chicken warrior 😦

[south goblet]

cant do dam when the spells targeting you have you dead on the floor

[warm plinth]

Just 1 more to all 10s!

[tight hinge]

Fueled by violence + full bleed build with the new tier is blood dk shit

lol

[jagged gust]

pull more heal more

the way it should be

[south goblet]

ngl ima be so sad if we go back to bleed builds, there so boring

[tight hinge]

yep, just came out of first pull in floodgate mythic 0 with 5.5m dps and 1.4m hps

[warm plinth]

Idk what you mean by bleed build. It would change nothing?

Like running talents that make bleeds stronger, sure, but it's not like bleeds suddenly become some prevalent part of our gameplay

[jagged gust]

tbf our hps is highly dependent upon how much our healer pays attention to us

[tight hinge]

they do with the new tier

you're constantly chaining a 100% bleed dmg buff on them

[warm plinth]

Sure but it's not an active gameplay change

It's just there

[tight hinge]

oh yeah, its boring as shit

its just strong and i'm experimenting

[jagged gust]

I've broken 1mil hps on the first pull of NW in S1

[languid flint]

Hello warriors, not sure if best place to discuss but I am trying to learn ( and failing) the meld skip at the end of mechagon. Here are two clips of my fails. Can someone explain to me what I am doing wrong please?
https://streamable.com/c7lc5h
https://streamable.com/kuw05e

[jagged gust]

simply by not having a healer

[chilly brook]

Let's take a look at one of the most dangerous bosses for us as it stands currently. The DoT tick (which is what is honestly going to potentially kill you) taken natty in a 17 is doing 2.52m damage per tick. Right now Spell Reflect will reduce each tick (5 total if you hit it perfectly timed) by 504k. If you bump up that to 30% you now reduce each tick by 756k. This means that you take 2.5m off the table as it stands, but potentially 3.78m if you have 30% DR. While this sounds like a lot this is best case scenario as most dots don't tick every second in this game, and you also have another 5 ticks left in the DoT once SR wears off. So out of a DoT that is doing 25.2m overall, the difference between the two is 21,420,000 damage taken or 22,700,000 damage taken.

to put that in perspective the difference in damage taken is 5.7%

thank you for coming to my TED Talk

[sharp merlin]

That’s a lot of maths

[slender bison]

Seems they need to rename it to Hunker Up amiright?

[chilly brook]

SR talent gud if it's short damage burst but then again short magic damage isn't what kills us

[cerulean tusk]

Just ignore pain nab

[jagged gust]

lets compromise, SR now has a 6s uptime with a 18s CD

[south goblet]

thats still a 12 sec window where the healer has to shit them selfs to keep you up during sustained mag dmg

[tight hinge]

still miss spell block but fueled by violence is a gd banger now

[jagged gust]

yeah but its a dot

its not gonna kill you outright

[slender bison]

Bold to assume you get invited. They'll just get a prot paladin

[jagged gust]

let it tick, hit the DR, healer gets you back up, SR down, hp down, healer gets you back up, repeat

[south goblet]

if the healer is healing you for 2.5m hps, then your pary is dead as there isnt anything left to heal them

[chilly brook]

you know what else is a DoT?|| Rixxa Fluxflames auto attacks and that bitch fucks||

Just a DoT without a debuff that ticks every 1.5 seconds or w/e

[slender bison]

The real issue is Dawnbreaker. Paria tanks in S1

[cyan bronze]

and how much dmg is the 300 strength giving

[slender bison]

And Halls

[cyan bronze]

and how much dr is the 6% armor giving

[south goblet]

ugh i forgot dawnbreaker was comming back

[rancid tiger]

Dawnbreaker i hate that dungo

[south goblet]

I guess brewmaster finnally wont be bottom tank

[chilly brook]

undoubtedly less but the scale of them is different

300 str is relevant always

[south goblet]

were going into a mag dmg heavy season with no spell block, blizz is fking us

[chilly brook]

and armor is relevant for 95% of the key

[slender bison]

Go into PTR and spec and unspec Armor Spec talent. The higher the ilvl, the less the bonus. For one talent point that can go into Bloodborne

[jagged gust]

no one's looking at armor for the sake of DR, we just want that sweet, sweet STR

[cyan bronze]

300 str

[chilly brook]

so while the snapshot might be lower, the impact is higher

[cyan bronze]

half of a leg enchant

less

[jagged gust]

vs zero str

300 > 0

[cyan bronze]

the point can go into another dmg talent

[chilly brook]

I think you're missing the point

[south goblet]

0 aginst what actually matters to us witch is mag dr

[cyan bronze]

even if you don’t play hunker

[slender bison]

It's not zero STR, it's a talent point going further

[jagged gust]

it literally cannot

[cyan bronze]

I just don’t think it’s worth a point

[chilly brook]

missing the forest for the trees my friend

[cyan bronze]

here? It can go into bsc if damage is the worry

[south goblet]

i mean its not rly, but where else you rly gunna pu tit

[chilly brook]

bsc severely nerfed and it's even less worth if we end up playing Thane

[south goblet]

and theres high odds of Thane being better next season, especially if we need the better defences it gives

[chilly brook]

Thane isn't really all that much more tanky

[jagged gust]

Thane is looking super doodoo

[cyan bronze]

honestly, I would rather take red right hand than armor spec

[chilly brook]

I would value more Shield Wall in keys as Colo with the magic damage than I would being Thane

[cyan bronze]

also if that’s a thane tree I believe you’d have to drop 1 of the pathing points and one extra point for TL?

[chilly brook]

as it stands on my character now that's an extra 5.5k dps in pure single target and almost 30k in aoe

[tight hinge]

embraceblood

[chilly brook]

that's an extra trinket in aoe

[jagged gust]

TL forces you to take LS, so it's an automatic 2 point investment for 1 passive

[cyan bronze]

30k being a trinket is

a statement

[chilly brook]

not a full trinket but a sizeable upgrade if nothing else

[slender bison]

TL is debatable. You might get better damage from execute than from Demo CDR via Booming

Need numbers

[chilly brook]

how BSC maths out on PTR Idk

but again that's 30k DPS while also totalling a non-zero amount of DR

[cyan bronze]

idt 30k is very meaningful, this season or next

[jagged gust]

its 30k more than zero

that argument holds little weight, if you kept saying that about every optimization that number quickly multiplies to the hundred-thousands-millions

[chilly brook]

then you don't think ilvl upgrades once you're at 678 are meaningful

it all adds up

[cyan bronze]

that is a strawman, this discussion is silly atp

[chilly brook]

it's not

you said you don't think 30k is meaningful

[jagged gust]

you literally don't know how talent trees work

[cyan bronze]

it’s 5.5k dps st for a talent point that could go somewhere more meaningful

[jagged gust]

DTIYDK

[strong forum]

True, get rid of the 4% magic Dr and get something proper useful instead

[cyan bronze]

neither node is useful but I think in keys with high magic dam without spellblock you’re just better off talenting hunkerdown

[strong forum]

If the situation calls for it

Sure

[chilly brook]

just for the sake of putting actual numbers out here, 8% more armor for me rn is worth 2% DR. 2% DR over the course of a whole key from armor is 110% doing more damage reduction than 10% more DR on SR

[slender bison]

Hamstring has 0.75s GCD. Instant keybind on my Prot bar

[cyan bronze]

it’s 6%, but yes

so ~1.5% dr

[chilly brook]

it's 8 on live hence why using 8, but yes 6% I would still stand by that statement. It's just for the purpose of putting it in persepctive.

[cyan bronze]

and I think you’re largely more likely to die to magic damage than white swings without spellblock

like in db, for example

[slender bison]

It's not about armor on high keys, it's about can you pull the same as Prot paladin + VDH who have anti magic tools (6/8 dungeons)

[chilly brook]

not if it's consistent damage

[south goblet]

yea its armor only though, and phys dmg we block most of any way. That extra armor isnt really doing anything for you in the grand scheme since we block almost all phys dmg any way

[slender bison]

I can tank theater of pain 18 in ilvl 670 just due to shield block. We're so over armor

[chilly brook]

if it's consistent damage, SR is automatically worse

SR is good for damage that is reflectable or fits nicely in a 5 second window

[south goblet]

yes, but we have no anwser to sustained mag other than SR now

[chilly brook]

and in those cases you're not going to die anyways because you have other tools which also help you with that

[chilly brook]

yes and the talent is not very helpful in that case as illustrated earlier....with math

[cyan bronze]

yes you picked its worst case scenario to demonstrate why the talent is bad in all circumstances

math

[south goblet]

yes, but its still better to take over an armor bosst that we dont rly need

[chilly brook]

and what is a "best case scenario"?

[cyan bronze]

db?

burst magic damage?

hello!

[chilly brook]

specifically what

are we talking the rush?

[cyan bronze]

first boss comes to mind

[chilly brook]

and is 30% going to make you live that when 20% wouldn't?

[south goblet]

10% more on a big hit is alot

[chilly brook]

because the thing with burst damage is it's basically a binary you live or you don't

[cyan bronze]

yes, 30% dr is more than 20% dr, glad I can clarify

[chilly brook]

obviously it's more

but that wasn't the question

[slender bison]

The new BsV swap until high keys is awkward. MT can drop Instigate for Heavy Handed. Yeah, the new talent tree doesnt feel good. It's Revenge spam until 35% and Execute after that. Use IP in between.

Sure, get Enduring Alacrity if you're not a S2 geared 680 warr

[cyan bronze]

no whirling seems insanity

[south goblet]

yea we kinda have to make a hard choice between dmg and defense now to, hard to get want you want for both

[slender bison]

Depends on PTR tuning. I hate RNG. Might as well pick Siderarm in Warr talent tree and test

As a tank you REALLY dont wanna have RNG talents. Ravager is "I want rage now"

[cyan bronze]

ig

[slender bison]

Will probably pick BsV earlier than rest of the keys for Dawnbreaker lmao

And Halls

[south goblet]

yea idk how much use were gunna even get out of these execute talents

were gunna be dumping so much range into IP to live magic dmg

[slender bison]

Question is: Will Thunderlord via Booming Voice +20% damage windows be better for worth talenting 2 points

[cyan bronze]

bsc is there

[slender bison]

Clap + Free revenge for SS resets

[cyan bronze]

maybe

bloodsurge over it seems better

[slender bison]

Instigate is superior since it covers your rage issues at bosses. Never had a "I wish I had Bloodsurge" moment this season as Col/MT

[south goblet]

true, but arnt we loseing rage gen with 11.2?

[granite pond]

rage felt fine doing the new dungeon m0

[chilly brook]

Ok back again with some maths.

Unfortunately you have to bare with me only having a 13 as my highest key on that dungeon but the beam natty was doing 11,593,044 damage as the tank buster hit.

With spell reflect at 20% that hit would be 9,274,436. With Reflect being 30% that hit would be 8,115,131 damage. That is a 12.6% damage taken increase on the hit if you aren't using the 30% talent. As that boss really only did anything to you during the tank buster the question simply is, will that 12.6% be the difference between living and dying, as the talent has no other use besides just the defensive component.

It's also worth pointing out that even in a magic "heavy" dungeon the lions share of the damage is still physical.

[south goblet]

yea but thats m0 where your probs not hitting IP that much

[granite pond]

sure, but no other way to test atm. need to wait for m+

[cyan bronze]

think vaguely something like this gets played for thane

perhaps last stand+tl->bloodsurge+hunker

[south goblet]

and even in the Magic light dugenons, whats going to kill a prot war isnt phys dmg, its mag dmg. Hunker is still the better option

[cyan bronze]

And swap between armor spec and 4% dr

[chilly brook]

bro is fighting the armor talent and then picks it and doesn't pick the magic Dr

[cyan bronze]

i wasn’t fighting the armor talent itself, i just think pathing through both is insanely troll

[slender bison]

Thanks. But the hit is physical (like Giga-Zap Thunderpunch) with a Nature/Magic component, no? The DoT is the issue for both of them

[ionic fern]

Gonna be smashing that AoE execute instead of BSv

[chilly brook]

SR becomes worse in those situations

[cyan bronze]

and i think there will be times where ftff better

[chilly brook]

fttf is better than the SR talent

[cyan bronze]

Prob

[chilly brook]

like period

[cyan bronze]

i think if you’re talenting into either

you are probably talenting into both

[slender bison]

Yep, since it's global MDR

[south goblet]

ngl i dont think were gunna have the rage to be able to spam aoe execute in keys

[chilly brook]

fttf is always giving the value and it isn't lessened by the duration of the magic damage

[cyan bronze]

with bloodsurge instigate and thane?

X

[south goblet]

I think you underestimate how much rage we will be sending into IP to make up for not haveing spell block

[cyan bronze]

[slender bison]

+++ It's like Dailcry fight but ...like for a whole Season

[cerulean tusk]

Just ignore pain

dont be bad

[cyan bronze]

U could theoretically get rid of both stat stick nodes and play aoe execute and massacre and bsv

[south goblet]

you can

and you will die over a +10

[ionic fern]

Nah.

[cyan bronze]

if those two nodes are the only two things keeping you alive in a 10

[south goblet]

its not about the node, you can take them

im saying you wont have the rage to use it

[cyan bronze]

btw we didn’t have spellblock in bfa

[strong forum]

You won't be able to path down without them

[ionic fern]

That's way too doomish.

[slender bison]

I havent got a chance to look at the loot table. Wondering if this season we have a something more powerful than Mud (M+ drops) to counter Magic damage. I hope its not one of those seasons where if you dont have a trinket you're F tier tank

[cyan bronze]

W/o FV & EA?

[slender bison]

Most theorycrafters say - Sac + Pacemaker = GG imba damage, but I hope we won't need Def trinkets once we get in mid-high keys (earlier than other tanks)

[south goblet]

no, but SR worked different and was better. Also there wasnt nearly as much mag dmg going out as we have now

[chilly brook]

you will want at least one

if you plan on pushing keys

just like this season

[cyan bronze]

what defensive trinkets are there

[chilly brook]

they're too valuable in helping cover our deficiencies

[cyan bronze]

for next tier

[chilly brook]

not sure haven't looked

[slender bison]

Yes, question is if we're 1-2 keys earlier than other tanks due to magic all around. So we lose DPS competititvty

[chilly brook]

we'll still have mud

[cyan bronze]

o true

[warm plinth]

SR was worse in bfa though

[cyan bronze]

X

To doubt

God this chat is insanely doomer

tbf you could drop shield charge for bsv also next tier

[chilly brook]

Your damage doesn't matter nearly as much in higher keys gonna be real

[south goblet]

i dont think you realise just how bad loseing spell block is

[cyan bronze]

the spec has been meta without it

sucks

[frail ibex]

I dont think you realize that it isnt that bad

sucks

sure

[chilly brook]

if you have the tradeoff of losing 300k dps but you gain an extra defensive that helps you pull efficiently/live mechanics that you struggle with you do it

[frail ibex]

but we will live

[cyan bronze]

isnt going to make us worse than uhdk at tanking

[frail ibex]

and prot will be playable in high content

[cyan bronze]

like this chat seems to believe

[south goblet]

yes, when mag dmg wasnt nearly as previlant as it is now

[ionic fern]

Everyone knows it's bad. But it's not like we can't do anything without it.

[slender bison]

Have look on prot paladin set AoE damage for PTR and come back with "Why I get declined in 10s????" post 2 months from now

Anyways, TBD 6 weeks etc

[ionic fern]

It's way too early to be dooming about stuff anyways.

[frail ibex]

Instead of complaining in an echo chamber, Go on the forums and ptr and complain about it

[cyan bronze]

you guys are insane

[cerulean tusk]

We can all get on a buss, set camp outside the blizz HQ, drive up a tank with live ammo. Then shoot in a shell, threaten to shoot another every hour till the change has been reverted.

[cyan bronze]

even if pwar is terrible

[chilly brook]

as someone who's been pushing recently on a DH, trust me you're not missing anything you might get into more keys but you're also bricking 75% of them because the people who care about "meta" suck ass

[cyan bronze]

my friends will shrimply cope

[cerulean tusk]

Ppl in here need to drum up more drama for this

[frail ibex]

True

[cerulean tusk]

Make it personal, as if someone kicked your puppy twice.

[slender bison]

Same here in EU, key owner gets Disc/Balance/UDK and then ...wait why arent you guys timing my key? 🙂

[chilly brook]

it is funny being 3300 and getting invites to 17s at 673 though

[slender bison]

It's like Family guy, but sees purple icon at customs instead of anything else

[cerulean tusk]

You can be 2800 and be invited as 650, probably. There are no tanks atm.

[chilly brook]

tbf my main is just shy of 3500 so it's not like I'm truly 3300

but my score went up like 250io yesterday on the DH

[cerulean tusk]

That be some good gains

[dusky canopy]

Buying resil 16 friend

Currency: smiles

[cerulean tusk]

No deal

[dusky canopy]

[slender bison]

On a serious note, any Prot war this season should burn some 16+ keys with Phys/melee comp. Everything gets deleted

No meta slaves, just zug

[crude notch]

hello mwahi and nome, where's the petition to abolish all other tanks abilities to deal with magic damage?

[chilly brook]

I try but phys bois are rare this season

[south goblet]

ngl there the only ones i apply to as i know there waiting for a war tank so its an insta invite

[chilly brook]

I just take what looks good

[slender bison]

Bonus points If you find a WW or Surv hunter. In EU they're much rarer

[soft dragon]

heyo boys, sorry to bother, i'm looking for a war prot that did mythic progress with low ilvl for some tips in pm ?

[chilly brook]

don't give a crap about their class unless I need something specific like soothe/brez etc

[frosty mango]

Pretend you are high ilvl, full send

That is not hyperbole

Trust your healers, play exactly as you would at a higher Ivl, use defensives on tank busters etc

[soft dragon]

i didd bomb on gallywix cause i was applying to a guild

[frosty mango]

Warrior % based mitigation is very strong so the only thing gear is really keeping you from realistically is damage and I guess threat if you’re like really low

[soft dragon]

i felt like damages were just extreme

[frosty mango]

It’s almost certainly a play issue, unless you’re like….640

[cerulean tusk]

Roid out here spitting facts something is up with Roid lately, perhaps it is a chatbot

[frosty mango]

If you post some logs folks can probably help out

[frosty mango]

I ebb and flow

We’ve had plenty of dooming and shitposting lately, I am the balance

[candid cove]

Guess we go haste now right?

[cerulean tusk]

guess noone cares

[soft dragon]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GNyjgnAz6rDLxJ4b?fight=24&type=damage-done, thats the log of the kill, i'm banbiwar, tbh i felt that without a cd def before AND after bombs, i would not survive (did shit damages tbh)

[frosty mango]

Probably? But it will all get simmed out

You’re 681

That’s not low

[soft dragon]

yeah

but i ask that to know how they managed(if they did that ability) to survive that

and seecond thing is that i feel more tanky with thane, but is it only in my head ? everyone use demolish everywhere even in prrogres

[frosty mango]

well youre losing a shield wall playing thane

so thats one thing thats hurting you

you also appear to not be covering the focused fully with spell block, partially because you are not facing the boss

if you look at the overlap of your defensive usage, you're also pressing them a little too early

so you pressed spell reflect and it fell off before you even hit the dud

and you lost like 3-5 seconds of shield wall because you pressed it early

[soft dragon]

damn

[south goblet]

and to anwser the question of "how did tanks do this at lower iL" they just use there kit more optimally, thats all

[soft dragon]

yeah for sure but idk, maybe some stuffs that i don't have

[frosty mango]

you also seem to be losing ignore pain in the middle of the event, when you hit the second bomb it looks like?

which is also where your health drops lowest

[south goblet]

also, never be afreaid to call for an exteral mitigation. Its the biggest thing new raid tanks fail to do.

[frosty mango]

you may want to shift IP right a bit

[frosty mango]

they got 2 mistweavers and 2 hpals

[south goblet]

thats, a lil unfortuante

but my point still stands

a well timed bop can work wonders

[frosty mango]

neither of your monks cast life cocoon the entire fight

despite being talented into it

thats a huge loss for you too

[soft dragon]

i think that i got most of the time an external but y

yeah okey

i had the feeling that i could do better without any external

[south goblet]

you can

but the point is that if they have them and you find your self in a hole, the ask for it

[frosty mango]

actually they cast it once but the point stands

[south goblet]

its also how lower iL tanks kill this

[frosty mango]

also this yes, you have a high amount of control - just tell them when to external you and then call it

[soft dragon]

yeah okey

[frosty mango]

I am not 100% sure how directionality on the focused dot works with spellblock, but I think you need to be facing the boss? @shut summit probably knows

[soft dragon]

and what's the point between demolish and thane, i had the idea that thane tanks more than demolish but am i stupid ?

[soft dragon]

yeah probably i guess

[south goblet]

yes, spell block requires you to block, so you must face the caster

[frosty mango]

the caster is technically the bomb

[soft dragon]

y

[frosty mango]

but I believe the game considers it the boss

therefore I think youd need to be facing the boss

[soft dragon]

😮

[frosty mango]

but its a wierd scenario

[soft dragon]

yeah xddd

annoying as f

[frosty mango]

Thane has higher rage gen so in theory you can IP considerably more

[cyan bronze]

demolish

[frosty mango]

but colossus has damage redux on demolish and more importantly enables you to run impenetrable wall, which lets you use avatar as a shield wall

which is really just insanely high value

[south goblet]

I prefure thane tbh, I only assume most the colossus tanks do it to parse

[soft dragon]

i also feel more safety with thane but a lot of tanks, even in progress with "low" ilvl, played colossus, thats' why i'm asking 😄

[frosty mango]

but back to this if you look at the top graph, dtps and then align with the others

[soft dragon]

thats a good point

[frosty mango]

the part in the veeeeeery middle is where your health is dropping to like 28% and consequently that is the part where you have no cd overlap

so shifting your timings just a smidge will probably have a big impact

also get a disc priest

lol

[south goblet]

yea ngl this healing comp isnt doing you any favors

[frosty mango]

that healing comp aint doing anyone any favors

[south goblet]

at least one of the healers is useing his sac on him XD

[frosty mango]

your dps is carrying tho

so it works out

boss is dead so obviously it works

[south goblet]

true

[frosty mango]

https://tenor.com/view/big-brain-gif-27108854

just remember you only parsed better than 13% of warriors who killed mythic gally, but you still parsed infinitely better than the 99% of warriors who did not kill him.

[soft dragon]

true

but i already did like 70

not exceptionnal

but depends a lot on my role i guess

but i could have done better

[south goblet]

the talent selection isnt set for maximized dmg either. But if goal was to kill boss. its fine

[soft dragon]

they were testing apply like 4-5 per raid ;D