protection

[sick sentinel]

ya

but why is thaat

[frosty mango]

A multitude of reasons but to sum it up in tldr format - streamer meta impact

Dh has a lot of synergy with current meta dps - its mobile, it’s also tanky

Damage is not the gate at high key levels, control is

But that being said every tank spec is perfectly capable of doing the top end of keys - with the exception of blood dk which is more of a class design issue than a player issue

If all of the top streamers made a video today saying “prot warrior is god tier and everyone should be playing it” then we would see a meta shift immediately.

Doesn’t matter if it’s true or not

We see that right now (and every season) with Dh

[sick sentinel]

dh has been fotm for every year since conception?

[frosty mango]

But dh is also just a great tank choice at the moment given the meta

No, we’ve had prot pal, prot war, brew

[round cliff]

i wish i liked vdh but it's just weird

:(

[sick sentinel]

when you say control is what is needed in top keys what exactly is control

[frosty mango]

Stuns, silence, grips, kicks, incaps, knock ups

Things that stop mobs from doing damage

[sick sentinel]

ok

and dh does have the sigils

aoe

[frosty mango]

Yes so does warrior, but sigil of silence is just objectively better than disrupting shout and sigil of chains is huge for grouping massive pulls

[mighty valley]

the other part is... once people are locked into a comp and pushing, they're just gonna stick to it unless there's some enormous balance shift

the best big key dps also benefits from dh group buff

[frosty mango]

If you are considering the meta dps comp (boomy, arcane, uh) then demon hunter IS objectively the best tank for that combo

But at the same time there are people doing phys comp keys just as well

Then you have squish and co who never looked up the word meta

[mighty valley]

yeah, ideally people just wouldn't let the leaderboard bother them

if prot warriors can time 20s, then normal human beings can do whatever they want

[solid sun]

Waiting for the Pash YouTube video declaring bear as the best tank spec

[frosty mango]

Every single tank is perfectly capable of doing the top end of keys with the exception of maybe bdk, who I’m pretty sure can just with way more effort

[sick sentinel]

why is blood dk so handicapped

[frosty mango]

Their primary mitigation is self healing via death strike which scales based on incoming damage over the past period of time

Eventually keys scale to a point where the damage will simply kill you faster than your gcd and therefore it doesn’t matter how good you are

[sick sentinel]

oh ok

[frosty mango]

But imo we’re not there

[sick sentinel]

yep glad im a warr harr!

ive found prot warr seems to run much smoother than other tanks

i can hop between mob packs with charge easily

although dh has infernal strike but... unless u place it correctly mobs will hit you from behind

[frosty mango]

Yes that’s still very true on warrior

Don’t get hit in the back or you’ll die

[round cliff]

healer problem

[sick sentinel]

ya i learned that the hard way lol, at least warrior i can pick what mob i want to hit so i can face the pack

sometimes even if i infernal strike in front of the mob pack somehow the dh is still facing away from thepack when it lands

[frosty mango]

Warrior has similar issues with charge

[sick sentinel]

oh yea i remeber now, ur right on that

[solid sun]

The primary reason warrior is the best tank to play is because of us right here

[round cliff]

warrior discord kinda the best one and it's not close

monk is good but less active

tbh if i have questions abt other classes i just ask in prot war channel and get a response quicker ngl...

[sick sentinel]

hah

[solid sun]

Yeah I don’t think there’s anything I do on pwar I couldn’t do on bear outside of damage

Trying to remember if they have a disrupting shout option but either way meh

But bear discord isn’t this discord so nope

[sharp gale]

20 seconds

[mellow bridge]

1 stack per second

[sharp gale]

1 stack each 2 seconds

and it fade at 10-11 stacks

[mellow bridge]

or that

[frosty mango]

Yeah they have incap roar

I personally find bear easier to play

It just doesn’t scale damage as well

But I still have no issue ripping off 1.5-2m overall on my budget tier 640 bear lol

Moonfire makes pulling very simple

Geared bear is basically a brick wall with legs though

[sick sentinel]

id play vdh but it just feels too squishy compared to prot warrior although vdh fel devastation (which heals you almost to full from almost zero health) spammable every 30 seconds which is good for pros whoo dont make mistakes

[frosty mango]

Vdh is not squishy at all given it’s played properly

But yes if it is not played right you’re gonna die, especially on pulls

[solid sun]

I’m putting you in jail

[sick sentinel]

hm?

[solid sun]

You double posted but I didn’t read your new blurb and then started deleting what I was reading

[sick sentinel]

ya i deletdd iit

[solid sun]

Go to jail

[sick sentinel]

for?

its an honest mistake wont happen again

[solid sun]

I can’t even put you in jail

I’m just making a playful comment about how you did what you did

I have no power here

[sick sentinel]

ok

[solid sun]

I’m a spirit bomb felscarred gamer

But that’s def not what most vdh do

[sick sentinel]

ya u get souls wth the other one

the 'dps' version

u need souls for the spirit bombs

that was my mmistake too sadly i went felscarred

that spec dsoenst give u the needed soulsl

u get from the procs on the other talent tree

the other sad part is all my gear is crit mastery

but u need haste to generate souls from fracture

and to reduce cd on your infernal armor

i feel like dh is good if you are maxxed on gear but to get to that point requires grinding

but prot warrioir will be less dependant on the gear untul u can actually get it due to its increased deefensives

[frosty mango]

I can only tell you how to play warrior, monk, hunter, and priest

My demon hunter advice is basically “if I have to heal you you’re doing it wrong”

[sick sentinel]

i do play disc also

[solid sun]

It sounds like you’re playing it wrong

But I can’t tell you how

I bet griff could

[frosty mango]

Oh I have advice on that

Your friend is likely an idiot

[drifting rampart]

Ret paladin players dont have brains

[frosty mango]

You can tell by the way that it is

[hollow pawn]

how far ahead of mountain thane is colossus?

[frosty mango]

In aoe a lot, probably 20%, in pure single probably 4-10% depending on your gear

[sick sentinel]

all the top people on warcraftlogs doing high dpsis using colossus tho

[hollow pawn]

ty

[sick sentinel]

oh

ya ur right

is it worth taking mountain thane

colossus has 20 percent bonus to ignore pain

and colossus has 10 percent damage reduc when casting the channel

[frosty mango]

Doesn’t matter how you play or what you play, if a ret paladin is sending wake or storm before mobs make it to melee with you, they will pull aggro and die

[sick sentinel]

ya

[frosty mango]

You can charge back and aoe taunt or heroic throw to recover but on higher keys if they do that they just die

[sick sentinel]

is colossus also better at damage reduc than mountain thane

survivability

[frosty mango]

Yes and no

Thane has better rage economy and its primary dump is ignore pain, and has some % mits tied to clap, so in that sense you are more tanky but I’m not sure it would make an actual difference. Colossus runs avatar/shield wall which gives you a strong on demand cooldown

[sick sentinel]

colossus also has that 5 percent bonus to damge and 5 percent bonus to damage reduc

[sharp gale]

And colossus has the bump on shockwave

[sick sentinel]

ya

[sharp gale]

You have intervene shield as thane

[frosty mango]

I’m not sure there’s a time when you say “I run thane for defense here” because ultimately you are either dead or not dead - so if the higher damage spec does not have issues being not dead, then it’s just by default better

[drifting rampart]

isnt it like.. 500k health

[frosty mango]

It’s about 700k

[sharp gale]

It’s been quite some time, but it’s still something

Idk what is the amount at my ilvl

[frosty mango]

I run thane for funsies sometimes, it’s about 700k

Losing knock up on shockwave feels gross

[sharp gale]

They should switch col bump with shockwave talent in class tree imo

[frosty mango]

Or just make it a choice node

[sharp gale]

It is something I will 100% miss if thane is the play next season

Or that yes

[frosty mango]

One is cooldown redux one is knock up

[sharp gale]

And remove the stun part when you take the bump

[frosty mango]

Naw leave the stun

Choose between knock up and cdr

Imo

[mild river]

Do we already have simulation about the new belt coming tomorrow?

[frozen cipher]

Just need quick clarification, since I'm at work and not sure if I'm misreading the talent tree, but does disrupting shout replace challenging shout?

I can't see the specific wording for any replacement on wowhead mobile

[round cliff]

yes

[frozen cipher]

Yes to the shout question or the sim question before me?

[round cliff]

yes

[frozen cipher]

[mild river]

hahahaha

[frosty mango]

If it can be simmed some enterprising young warrior has probably already simmed it

[solid sun]

I thought i read it sucked

Did it get beefed up

I’d like to keep playing Dune largely uninterrupted. Is this belt gonna be a “requirement” for next season

[dusky canopy]

It’s definitely going to be the best item for the slot

Especially after the buffs

[frosty mango]

They will buff it until it’s bis

Otherwise people won’t do content to get it and unsub

We must stay on the money wheel
The money wheel must turn
The ghost of kotick must be payed

[urban sequoia]

playing collosus in M+, do we ever want to hold demolish for the 70% extra revenge damage, or do we just slam down demolish whenever we can?

[mighty valley]

I just press it after I've done my opener and everything's gathered and then on CD from there

You also get a damage buff from pressing it and holding it is wasting CDR

[urban sequoia]

I really wish you could use demolish while moving tho u3u
Or that the "immune to forced movement effects" in the description of demolish wasnt a lie.

[frosty mango]

You are immune to forced movement effects

Press demolish and try to force your character to move

https://tenor.com/view/risitas-yes-giggle-gif-13898844

[frosty mango]

We have so much crit that it’s really irrelevant to hold

You will be restacked very quickly

[urban sequoia]

oh i only have like 20% crit.

[urban sequoia]

IDK what mechanics but Ive been annoyed several times where I press demolish and still get pushed back

[frosty mango]

None that I’ve encountered this tier

Priory has a few but as far as I know they all work

The swamp fist yoink may still pull you

[urban sequoia]

also I feel compelled to use shield wall whenever I demolish without avatar just for the extra 20% damage there. Not sure if that's a waste,

[frosty mango]

It’s not a waste provided you aren’t gonna need the wall

[hardy snow]

finally

[dusky canopy]

Grats!

Home stretch!

[jagged pier]

brother that took too long

how many pulls in the end?

[hardy snow]

239

[silver ingot]

gg

[jagged pier]

yer i still relate to my previous comment the other day

[small steeple]

Starting M OAB prog tommorow, anything I need to know for prot?

[hardy snow]

I know, but Im officer

[jagged pier]

and?

[hardy snow]

i would feel kind of bad leaving rest of officer friends with this mess

[lofty warren]

Season 3 balance tuning announced yet? Feels like s2 been out forever and it's time

[jagged pier]

S3 not even been announced

[hardy snow]

there are still 2months of s2 left

[jagged pier]

well if your having fun thats fine but damn i wouldnt have lasted that long

[hardy snow]

rest of the prog was fine

sometimes even good

[jagged gust]

That's how every season feels

[hardy snow]

but mugzee was clownfiesta

[sweet summit]

Hey guys, so in TWW S3 my guild will take a more serious approach to raiding and start progressing Heroic, so I need to prepare. Could you guys basically write down the entire rotation, for every single situation, two months before the patch comes out? I am a very serious player, and most definitely a min/maxer, so I need to know! Do we use Execute when the guy gets below 35% or what? Is it worth it? I am also a hardcore transmogger, so please tell me which racial is the best for prot? Oh and by the way, war or pala in TWW s3? xD or is it too soon to say

[jagged pier]

[dusky canopy]

Hey guys, so in TWW S3 my guild will take a more serious approach to raiding and start progressing Heroic, so I need to prepare. Could you guys basically write down the entire rotation, for every single situation, two months before the patch comes out? I am a very serious player, and most definitely a min/maxer, so I need to know! Do we use Execute when the guy gets below 35% or what? Is it worth it? I am also a hardcore transmogger, so please tell me which racial is the best for prot? Oh and by the way, war or pala in TWW s3? xD or is it too soon to say

[arctic lagoon]

God it feels weird to play my warrior after not playing it for so long. Sadly our war tank had to bow out due to life stuff and I will miss him because damn was he good at being a war tank. They have asked me to be main tank and I am excited. After reading the guides and what not - seems pretty standard for surviving etc with Ignore Pain and Shield Block as always. BUT for m+ what are some common pitfalls you see war tanks experience a lot - feels like I am brand new at this spec after not tanking on him for...years. Used to a BDK for a while now and good fucking god are they slow.

[lofty warren]

Dwarf is the best race for pwar for the bleed remove. And execute is actually not on top of prioriy list especially in aoe

[arctic lagoon]

god

dwarves are so ugly tho

may race change tho

[dusky canopy]

Just be Nelf

[small steeple]

Doesn’t matter in raid

If it’s utility you want, Nelf for some skips, or Velf for mobility might be it

[arctic lagoon]

ill be head of group 2 m+ runs so - makes sense for me to stat nelf then

[tardy abyss]

239 pulls for Gally is genuinely cursed

We needed 104 and that was a lot already imo

[dusky canopy]

Mugz^^

[tardy abyss]

Oh

Thats even worse

[hardy snow]

not gally, mugzze

[tardy abyss]

I confused you with someone from the hunter discord

Someone there had 220+ pulls on Gally mythic and still not downed

[frosty mango]

Hop on the ptr bro blizz already did this for you, they put it all into one button

You could be living your best AOTC life

One mouse in each hand. Two characters at the same time

One button gamer god

[lofty warren]

How to see others players that are using 1 button thing on your ui?

[sweet summit]

what would you say if i told you i already did loremaster on ptr before

[frosty mango]

I would say you’re living your best life

[frosty mango]

Look at the bottom of your damage meter

They’ll be the ones with zero deaths and sub tank dps

Which hey you do you

[lofty warren]

But there's no way to tell if they are just bad and dumb vs using the button

?

[frosty mango]

At that point is there a difference

[mighty valley]

ok so step one on the rotation, you're gonna want to open up the World of Warcraft application. There are a few ways to do this,

[frosty mango]

I need a one button ahk script to open wow and choose my char

[lofty warren]

Toucheeëy

[mighty valley]

I used to use a weakaura to let me know when to open wow but blizzard said they might ban weakaura, pls suggest help

[frosty mango]

I was a pretty big one button hater

But after seeing it in action I really don’t think it will matter

The penalty is pretty severe, imo the people who would try to use it in higher end content are gonna get weeded out pretty quick

And for content like early heroic or delves or w/e who cares?

[mighty valley]

yeah it doesn't really bother me at all

there are many many ways to underperform in world of warcraft

[frosty mango]

I will invite all the one button ergas to my heroic runs

Pump up those loot numbers

[mighty valley]

Honestly it might help heroic pugs

Even on later bosses they're usually wiping to deaths and fucked up mechanics more than optimal dps

[sweet summit]

thanks chat i'll do my best

[mighty valley]

at the lower levels, new war tanks don't block enough (either taking backhits or just not keeping sb up) and/or over dump into IP and starve themselves, missing GCDs

later, idk, just dungeon knowledge stuff, efficient ways to pull and making sure your dps doesn't go fucking nuts before you've gathered

and having a CD plan for the bosses that shred us

[urban bane]

a lotta people overhold cooldowns, too. Thinking "oh I may need this later" results in missed CD casts pretty often. But I'm sure that's stuff you're used to doing correctly with BDK given cdr on vamp blood and and DRW and whatnot

[sick sentinel]

warrior cds are all very long ones like 3 min cds, if they were shorter we wouldnt have to holdthem

[mighty valley]

?

which warrior CDs are three minutes

[sick sentinel]

health cds

[urban sequoia]

attracting shadows dragging you away is really annoying in rookery u.u

[sick sentinel]

and shield wall

but thats the price to pay for playing a tank class that has most damage mitigation

[mighty valley]

shield wall's effective cd is way way lower with anger management

[sick sentinel]

wowhead says to take the 2 shield wall talent instead of anger mangment

[urban sequoia]

i take both o3o

[sick sentinel]

oh wait angermanemetn is separate i think

[mighty valley]

yeah, separate talent

and defender's aegis already adds a charge and drops it to a 2min baseline cd

especially if you're colossus running IO

you can press sw pretty liberally

so long as you know when you need to keep it for tankbusters

[urban sequoia]

defenders aegis also reduces the base cooldown of shield wall by 60s.

[sick sentinel]

ok

[urban sequoia]

Imma be real, I dont tend to do content high enough level with my tank yet to need shield wall for tankbusters, so Ive been mostly using it as an extra avatar for extra damage on demolish.

[mighty valley]

if you don't die that's optimal

hurray

[sick sentinel]

u knokw u can use demoralizing shout for extra damage

it does 20 percent bonus damage with talent

[urban sequoia]

do y'all take into the fray or heavy repurcussions? the damage on into the fray is nice but repurcussions means I almost always have shield block up.

[urban sequoia]

yeah, but as I understand it, that's multiplicative with avatar damage

so its better to do both

[sick sentinel]

i take to the fray cuz shiel dcharge gives me shield block

oh i dunno ... maybe i should take the extra shield time

[urban sequoia]

I mean, shield charge + 12s recharge on shield block is what...
8s every 12s and 8s every 45s. Not awful uptime, but with repurcussions 100% uptime seems a lot more feasible.

[sick sentinel]

if u have 4 set, u should have almost 100 percent uptime with shield block i think with the 12 secnod time reduc for shield charge

i think every tmie u cast shild bash u get 12 sec reduc on shield charge

[urban sequoia]

No only while you have luck of the draw active

[sick sentinel]

ok

[urban sequoia]

Which is like 25% uptime?

[sick sentinel]

which is pretty decent i suppose

[mighty valley]

what's youre haste at? with 4set, you only need about uhhhhhhh 17k ish to expect basically perfect block uptime with ITF

[urban sequoia]

only 11k I have an absurd amount of haste on my gear

erer

Mastery*

[sick sentinel]

ya seems like the gear i find hass mastery on it too

and crit

good thing ima gnome

[undone beacon]

ew

https://tenor.com/view/gnome-punting-punt-wow-warcraft-gif-17977929

[sick sentinel]

plus i get the 5 percent size bonus as gnome so i look taller lol

i dunno, human seems to have a decent racial (2 percent bonus to all 2ndary stats_

[hardy snow]

double HS is great 😄

[urban sequoia]

maghar get 6570 to a single stat for 15s every 2m, so that's... 12.5% uptime 6570.
I think 680 ilvl is like 50k secondary stats total, so humans would be getting around 1k total secondary stats 100% of the time?

[sick sentinel]

yep lol

thast way more than any gems can give u

freee gems slots lol

[hardy snow]

most important choice about race is which look you like most

[urban sequoia]

Im NGL, I make characters mostly for the VIBE

[sick sentinel]

well nightelf is tallest for allaicne, and the 5 percent size boost from coloussus would make u look huge

[urban sequoia]

I went MagHar on my warrior because it was the closest to dragonmaw.

[sick sentinel]

and the 2 percent dodgge bonus will give u free revengre procs

[urban sequoia]

I did that alllll the way back in shadowlands.

WHICH BTW. WHY TF DONT WE HAVE DRAGONMAW CUSTOMIZATIONS FOR ORCS YET?

[sick sentinel]

no idea

[urban sequoia]

but yeah. One race I really wish got a buff was nightborne. They get almost nothing for warriors q-q

[undone beacon]

real

The differences between races are typically negligable unless you're pushing title or Hall of Fame

Play a nightborne warr if ya want who cares

[urban sequoia]

idk i like racials, even if they dont do much.

[hardy snow]

i started my war as vulpera to get achievment, then made it maghar cause thats what i liked most from horde, when crossfaction guilds came, ive swapped to human

[urban sequoia]

I like the aesthetic on my maghar

[sick sentinel]

u dont like asthetic of human ? 😦

[urban sequoia]

not rlly.

[frosty mango]

Orc is bis

[undone beacon]

My warr is a goblin because goblin is the best race in this game hands down

[urban sequoia]

goblin is p fun. My main is a gob hunter this patch.

[undone beacon]

If I could play a goblin druid I'd play a goblin druid

[urban sequoia]

real.

[undone beacon]

one of these things is not like the other

[urban sequoia]

IDK I just really like my mog here.

[urban sequoia]

gob squad reporting

[undone beacon]

I will say, I'm always tempted to swap from goblin to Dracthyr because Heroic Leap being disabled by Rocket Jump is butts

[undone beacon]

bis

[urban sequoia]

BRUH THE AMOUNT OF TIMES ROCKET JUMP HAS SAVED ME

as a hunter

[undone beacon]

Its fun to hit the disengage + rocket jump combo but, on warr rocket jump has gotten me killed

[sick sentinel]

oh ya someone told me they were dracthyr warrior and it saved them as least a feew times in combata

cuz u can spam doublejump

[urban sequoia]

what benefit comes from spamming doublejump?

[undone beacon]

Jump+Glide, racial knock CC, extra regen OOC, very nice to have as warr

[sick sentinel]

yep

like when u get knoced into air etc

[undone beacon]

Hitting jump while in the air does the drac glide which is faster than walking, as well as cancelling forced knockbacks

[sick sentinel]

instead of taking falling damage

[undone beacon]

I think drac glide for non-evokers is 140% speed, versus 170% for evokers? Which is still more than 100% walk speed

plus, infinite dracthyr warrior? badass

[jagged pier]

Drac bis race if and only if can visage in combat

Hence its bis for warrior

[undone beacon]

real and true

fact checked by real american patriots

[sick sentinel]

what does being visage do in combat

[undone beacon]

makes you not look dumb

[hardy snow]

how much of belt will be obtainable on wednesday? we can grind all of it or they again shitty timegate?

[undone beacon]

TIMEGATED BABY WHOOOOO

Four weeks to get to max ilvl

[hardy snow]

[undone beacon]

Should be able to get all the powers week one but

691 ilvl to start, goes to 701

im just pissy its gonna replace my adrenal clasp on the bear

weh weh weh

[hardy snow]

ehh with this timegating everything i cant be even hyped about patch :v

[undone beacon]

get hype for one button rotation

[jagged gust]

I cant wait

one button is gonna be a gamechanger

macro /focus tank /follow

spam OBR button and afk grind

[warm plinth]

Can you visage in combat?

[nocturne spindle]

i think everything except evoker can

[warm plinth]

Oh I didn't know that

That's cool

[undone beacon]

Yeah, only Evokers are forced into dragon form

All the other classes can stay visage

[severe wadi]

every tank i see is using fbv instead of bv is that just due to big keys?

[solid sun]

It’s because Yoda

[flat saddle]

Jumping back in and trying to figure out what to use my vault on, I also missed a couple of weeks of chips but have enough to pick up one hero track item.

Any suggestions?

[severe wadi]

is it as good as he says?

[solid sun]

No

Last time it was mathed out here it seemed that bv was usually better but both talents are bugged and the difference is small enough it doesn’t matter which one you take

[severe wadi]

is thunderlord worth taking over ravager?

[mighty valley]

for 99% of players i'd say no

[hearty kettle]

im gearing my protection warrior. Im wondering which slots i should craft first on max?

[warm plinth]

Shield>Weapon>Embellishments>Low ilevel slots

[hearty kettle]

love you

[warm plinth]

[heavy sparrow]

Does versatility enact all healing done from ourselves only? Or all healing received from our healer(s) as well?

[warm plinth]

Only healing done by you

[woven scroll]

maybe i skiped the answer, but i suggest house of cards

[arctic lagoon]

after doing some dungeons as war today - we now are on par with how many abilities brewmaster has

[mighty valley]

Yeah they trimmed down monk a little iirc

[sharp gale]

Monk still has a main rotation button bloat

Our is 3 gcd / 2 off gcd

Monk has like 5 gcd / 2 off gcd

Tiger palm, sck, blackout, keg, rsk

Against clap, revenge, ss

[sick sentinel]

best guides for doing mythic dungeons and raids?

[waxen quarry]

whats monk tank

never heard of it

type shi

[sharp gale]

Yet they have easier time in m+ queue than fury

[waxen quarry]

next season trust

all 5t dungeons

and fury still wont be picked cause its not even good at 5t

loses to all 3 mages

[frosty mango]

We have like 20+ binds min

And into 30 if you are a sweaty gamer

But all of the skills are relatively straightforward with no weird interactions so it’s still a relatively new person friendly spec

War also has the added bonus over monk that when we press our buttons they do actual damage instead of blowing on the mobs

[frozen cipher]

Just need quick clarification, since I'm at work and not sure if I'm misreading the talent tree, but does disrupting shout replace challenging shout?

[warm plinth]

It does, yes

@frozen cipher

[frozen cipher]

Ty

[jolly bough]

you guys run authority of the depths or Radiant power on MH? wowhead and archon conflict...

[jagged gust]

Whatever sims the best

For me I was running councils guile until stonebound artistry shot up in value when I dropped a bunch of mastery

[pallid quiver]

one of those is also a curated guide, and the other is just a compilation of what people are doing

the former will say whatever sims best, as that's the entire benefit of any weapon enchant

the latter will just report what people are rocking, without considering anything from whether people are intentionally trolling, trying to save gold on very minor differences, bandwagoning, making optimal decisions, copy-pasting optimal decisions from other classes/specs, etc

[sinful copper]

2 big questions i have:
on dailcry, what cooldown does mud go down to?
does spell block help? heard it doesn't even work on divine judgment or the AOE pulses, but lots of the top warriors do it

[cunning goblet]

Is anybody taking the wrecking throw talent for the absorb shield damage in certain fights? Or is it not as good as it sounds.

[nocturne spindle]

Spell block does not work for whatever reason. Trinket cooldowns goes to like 1:15 ish

[nocturne spindle]

I think it's really only considered on rookery but not really

[cunning goblet]

Yeah I guess that was the fight I was thinking of.

[sinful copper]

okay just confirming because there are a lot of logs of 18-20 priory with prot warrior and they're pressing spell block.... so i was second guessing it. what defensive do you press on divine judgment? is it only spell reflect, and hold avatar/shield wall for pierce armor only? demo shout on cd? prio ignore pain way more than revenge?

[pallid quiver]

If you prio IP, you're going to die without more healer support.

Dailcry is a fight that just constantly pounds the tank with damage, so you need to maximize your defensive ability over time, not just for an instant. To do so, you need to optimize your rage generation, so you can get more IP over time. The bleeds from Pierce Armor are pretty much back to back; it's almost never off unless it gets dispelled via dorf/BoP/Evoker cleanse

Heavy prio IP ends up costing you rage gen over time, since it's more rage negative than Revenge (doesn't reset SS cd, doesn't have a chance to refund the rage spent, etc)

For Divine Judgment, its damage should be reduced by spell reflect, though if your healer is struggling on the AOE pulse in higher keys, you might have to bite the bullet and attempt to overlap your main defensive with pierce armor and divine judgment's initial hit so you can use SR to reduce the damage from the aoe pulse by any amount; the pulse is not a major threat to tanks, but it can be real sketch for everyone else in the group

And as to why they're pressing spell block, you don't ever know what it actually works on without checking logs or if it's the only defensive active on an ability that would absolutely fucking kill you without a defensive

and it's better practice to just send it when a cast comes out that hits you instead of holding it for next expac

the most notable thing you can try and use it on for the trash immediately after is, like, sacred toll on the paladins, so you can't really blame them

[frosty mango]

Goes to about 55s

Here’s my fun dailcry essay

#protection message

[chilly brook]

@shut summit what's the WA you have to track Rixxa's autos?

[shut summit]

just one that i made

https://wago.io/zEubN7D7X in there somewhere, cant login atm, think is called boss3/boss4 or somethin like that

[chilly brook]

sick you da man

[hearty kettle]

Do we have a m+ list for all spells that we can spell reflect ?

[jagged pier]

[sharp merlin]

This should be pinned imo

[hearty kettle]

ty 🙂 i didnt thought this was updated ❤️

[frosty mango]

It's easy enough to junk link to it when people ask, thats why I wrote it up lol

because it gets asked like 2-3 times a day

[jagged pier]

If u arent evo u can be in visage form perma on all other classes

[quick charm]

Is there a spreadsheet for the best trinket combo for all m+ dungeons (especially pacemaker, book, mud and suit)?

[hearty kettle]

https://bloodmallet.com/chart/warrior/protection/trinkets/castingpatchwerk5

[solar spear]

does anyone know if reflecting castigator's shield 2nd boss priory works or does more damage if you're standing in multiple circles

[stuck basin]

y you can reflect it if you get targeted and it deals quite good dmg - not the other 2 - your shild wont even spawn if you reflect

[severe wadi]

keep swapping out Bv for Fbv and still can't figure out what is better to use are they super close? im only doing 10s atm

[brave sapphire]

Anyone else signing up to DK, Boomie, Mage, Disc groups 1-2 levels lower than your highest key and declining every invite? I have found a new hobby, after constantly getting declined in mecha 18s by those meta slaves - literally our best dungeon. Couldn't get into any keys for days. Now i'm finally done with mecha, my focused shifted from doing keys to declining meta groups who invite me. Resentful and childish, but very cathartic 😄

[winter marlin]

hey that's a healthy, productive, feel-good approach to griefing

[brave sapphire]

😄

[winter marlin]

[brave sapphire]

(Still holding one apply open for the top 18 i'm trying to time rn though :P)

[sinful copper]

Yeah but people are saying spell block works on 0 abilities during that fight so literally pointless to press

[sweet summit]

sheet says blockable on some stuff

[sharp gale]

You need to check trashs in the sheet for Elena

[sinful copper]

I'm seeing higher prio to IP though in high keys. What's highest priory youve done so far? I see like around 55 IPs in a fight. Not 100% ignoring revenge ofc but def much higher than normal I think

[sharp gale]

I don’t think you have 55 IP in a fight, how long tf your fight last

3 min it’s 18 ip per min

[sinful copper]

Why don't u think 55 IP on dailcry is possible?

[sharp gale]

If you play thane maybe

I think you rage starve / gcd lock yourself with that amount of ip

[sinful copper]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DkG2gphdvq9CXPQH?fight=18&type=healing&source=3&phase=1

That's 54 IP on dailcry

[sharp gale]

But 55 is possible if the fight is very long ofc

[ionic fern]

You just forego pressing Revenge.

Nothing else.

[sinful copper]

I think maybe lower is more common, around 45 IP

[sharp gale]

Oh yeah I just saw he is just thane for the fight

[sinful copper]

Sense did 46 on his 18

Oh does he swap for rest?

[sharp gale]

No just prio in rota change

[sinful copper]

Lol I see

[sharp gale]

I meant he press clap > revenge, like thane

[sinful copper]

And then sense did 26 on last boss, so doing 46 on dailcry means much more IP prio over revenge

[ionic fern]

Yes..that's a given considering the damage pattern.

[sharp gale]

Yes I had doubt if you were pressing 55 IP without switching to thane prio, you are big trouble

[sinful copper]

I think 55 is the outlier. I see more around 45 but that's still a lot

How big of a benefit is the priory buff?

[sweet summit]

Is House of Cards alright for tanking m+=

?

[primal ruin]

Is anyone doing MT as hero talents for keys pushing ?

[indigo hawk]

One if not the best trinket offensive

[warm plinth]

No, but you can if you want. You'll do less damage in aoe by a fair bit though.

[indigo hawk]

11% of the hightest key

[primal ruin]

Where do you get this info?

[indigo hawk]

Archon on web

[primal ruin]

Ah okay.
I'm gonna try and push some score as MT 😁 just wanted to see what stats and talent people use for MT

[indigo hawk]

You lose something like 20% dps as MT iirc but gain a bit of defensive but not really worth it for me

[primal ruin]

Yea okay I might test out both

[indigo hawk]

But if you prefer it, go for it

[sharp gale]

Archon m+ stats is 95% percentile on points if I remember

So it would be 15s or 16s and higher

[blazing ridge]

I am already pushing more dps then my friends in keys as MT, I cant disgrace them more with switching to Colossus xdd

[pallid quiver]

i mean in ST, your rotation almost always becomes something similar to SS > TC > Revenge, even as Colo, due to rage economy; it doesn't sustain as much rage in ST as it does aoe

you also don't sustain as much health wise from leech in smaller target counts, either, so Thane style rotation is just how it goes

[pallid quiver]

Also, looking at raw cast numbers can be a bit of a trap; one thing you'll note about all the people pressing 45 IPs is that their fights strangely all lasted roughly the same amount of time. Even more curiously, almost all of those fights started around 8 minutes and ended at about 11 minutes, give or take a few seconds. So roughly 3 minutes, or like a raid-ish long fight.

And fights in raid are pretty reliant on RNG sometimes for what button you're pressing, based on things like tier set RNG and the like

and that's harder to evaluate due to warcraft logs not showing casts of shield charge that are done in melee

[frosty mango]

A little late to the convo but I did consider thane over Colo for priory on the 18 attempt we did (specifically for dailcry) but decided against it - ironically enough dailcry really doesn’t feel like the fence you gotta jump to me

I played Colo and mapped out pain suppress with our disc and I didn’t do any ip spamming there, and it didn’t feel wierd

But even if I was hammering ip 55 seems….excessive

[frosty mango]

I use it for carry keys but not higher keys

The burst profile can do some comical things

Like stacking up demolish before cinderbrew and full sending. Only worth it though if you actively troll your shadow priest on discord asking them to pump up their rookie numbers

[pastel sleet]

Anyone have sims for belt stuff today over socketed 684 belt?

[gentle violet]

Good advice! Man, dailcry is a terrible boss for us. I was able to pull trash into it on an 18 for the key we timed but man, on a 19, IDK unless you have the most giga healer and some externals. Probably going to attempt boss on 19 without trash. This is what I saw bobas/Dabnel group do.
I think the groups that are pulling trash on boss on 19 or higher with prot war have an Rsham with big throughput and a ret to sac them or bubble taunt. With a priest and their lack of spot healing, it’s rough pulling trash into boss on a 19.

[shut summit]

have pulled in trash with priest and no ret on 19, is rowdy but doable

[gentle violet]

Just the guy I’m looking for. You doing 3 or 4 of the 5 pack to start? There is a chance your healer is just better than what I’ve played with too. I feel completely at mercy of my healer sometimes. We only can optimize so much on that fight.

[shut summit]

ye you can impact it a lot but end of the day is still dependent on heals

have done both 3 and 4 packs, did 4 with the priest, 3 with melee comp

[gentle violet]

Died around 50% of boss on a 19 with 4 mobs pulled in. Walled every tank buster. Reflected every judgement. We barrier the first AoE, Rally the second. Then I had a couple busters without wall used demo shout on 1 or 2 of them and called for PS on another.

Just fell over around 50%. Not sure if it’s a heal issue or if I’m not optimizing IP/Revenge properly but need to study this.

Playing with windwalker, feral and enhance so we are omega squishy, healer needs to focus DPS so much, I don’t get as much attention. This is probably why bobas group who plays the same comp elected to do boss with no ads on a 19 so tank could get more support due to squishy dps.

[sick sentinel]

what racials in wow drop necrotic stacks currently

i read that stoneform can remove it since necrotic was changed to physical damage

and that shadowmeld doesnst alwqays work when trying to drop necfrotic

[shut summit]

https://tenor.com/view/what-year-gif-19616587

[jagged pier]

I dont know now

[frosty mango]

For a second there I thought you were being serious and they brought back necrotic

https://tenor.com/view/anxiety-scared-nervous-anxious-hyperventilating-gif-419837106449555276

[sick sentinel]

sorry bro

i am new to tanking

ima healer by trade

i decided to get into tanking recently due too feeling too squishy

[frosty mango]

You just triggered ptsd for an entire channel.

It was like a trauma Yahtzee

[sick sentinel]

ahaha

my guildees have been patient with me when im tanking on my dh but i keep lowereing their keys cuz i dont know mechanics as i have just got back from a 2 year wow break

but i can heal the dungeons just fine

i feel like sometimes just sticking with healing lol

but i do feel like i also want a good challenge with tanking

i just got a prot warr to olvl 80

and feel powerful with my warrior

[upbeat crane]

Warrior bis

[sick sentinel]

i hadread somewhere on google that shield block is the best damage mitigation spell in wow is tihs true

what it meant was probably spammable mitigation

[jagged pier]

well spell ward or AMS are honestly better

but spell block is prety good

but only on bloackable spells

[solid sun]

He said shield block

[jagged pier]

said spell

presumes hes talking about spell damage

[sick sentinel]

no

i meant castable button click

[urban portal]

yea

[sick sentinel]

ffrmo tanks

[urban portal]

then shield block is probably the best in the game

actually no

infernal strike

its a 100% dr

because you run away from the mob

[jagged pier]

or ironfur cause u can cap physical damage with it technically

cant do that with SB unless u crit block

[urban portal]

yeah the theoretical ceiling of ironfur is higher but in practice youll never get there

[jagged pier]

u can get higher than SB im pretty sure quite easily

member SB on its own is like what 40ish % at max block maybe less its just u have everything stacked with it which also makes it good

[undone beacon]

IRONFUR MENTIONED

[jagged pier]

dis regarding crit blocks

[solid sun]

You have Incarn pretty often

Gets you crazy high if stacks

Idk how often you get high stacks of if without Incarn

[undone beacon]

You only need ~4 stacks of ironfur to reach armor cap, which is pretty easy to maintain esp in dungeons

With Incan I’ve gotten as high as 16 stacks, which at that point is just because I’m dumping rage for thorns of iron

But I digress

[sick sentinel]

weait so are you saying bear is best tank now?

[solid sun]

It’s only 4? I thought it was 8. I’m so stupid

[undone beacon]

Depends on your gear and stats

[jagged pier]

no u just mentioned what teh best spammable defensive is

[sick sentinel]

ok

ur right

[undone beacon]

Bear isn’t best tank but it’s pretty good

Ironfur is just the most spammable defensive yeah

[urban portal]

whats the armor cap DR?

[undone beacon]

Armor caps at 80% damage reduction for physical attacks

[jagged pier]

dont forget those druid mitigate magic damage with their face

and thats about it

so swings and roundabouts

[undone beacon]

Ursols Warding

Such a sad talent

[jagged pier]

i member mark of ursol

[undone beacon]

Druids mitigate magic by being thicc

[solid sun]

Bear has pretty good healing though

[undone beacon]

Rip in peace

[frosty mango]

The best tank is the one you play the best

[solid sun]

Or at least I feel like it does

[frosty mango]

That answer is true for 99.9% of players

[sick sentinel]

warrior get 8 percent magic damage reduc with talent plus the 16 with def stance plus we get spell reflect with spell damage reduc 25 percent for 5 sec after cast on 25sec cd and spell block on 1.5 min cd for 30 second duration so warrior has pretty good magic damage reduc right

[jagged pier]

yes

[undone beacon]

Warriors are great at upfront mitigation for most damage but if you let your maintenance buffs/defensives fall off you just flop

[solid sun]

Hardest part about warrior to me is gathering large pulls together

[frosty mango]

We really only struggle with long lasting rot/dots

[undone beacon]

Going back to warr after being on bear and trying to gather makes me so sad

Thrash and Moonfire goated

[frosty mango]

It’s only bad if your group is dumb

[undone beacon]

Turn my back to all the mobs, don’t give a frick

[solid sun]

What an autocorrect

Lmfao

[undone beacon]

SHHHH

[frosty mango]

I just warn them at the start of the key, if you full send before mobs are in melee you’re gonna die and I’m gonna laugh at you

[undone beacon]

nobody saw that

[solid sun]

Bro it feels so bad

[undone beacon]

Watching dps brick the key because they have no self control

[frosty mango]

Dps are going to be dumb, my favorite is when a hunter sends a lock and load proc with no misdirect when I’m gathering and then runs away from me

[solid sun]

Idk how many times I’ve said I need the mobs to get to me before they unload

[frosty mango]

I don’t even chase them anymore

I just tap my “you’re an idiot” sign

And say tfti

[solid sun]

And some of my squad just die all the time because they dive right in and I’m still moving around to the mobs I’m pulling

[heavy sparrow]

After the first pug pull is completed in floodgate. You jump down, and circle around to the 3rd pack and DPS are still attacking your first pack

[frosty mango]

99% of the time if dps just stood on the tank it would be fine

Or had any awareness of directionality

[frosty mango]

I usually charge and get the first two, then leap across to the other caster and charge to the architect

[sweet summit]

if they looked at their character instead of those damn weak auras they would own!!!!!

[frosty mango]

Gives you a few revenges to stick them before you get the far shit

[solid sun]

My first floodgate pull is that five pack to the right of the entrance

[heavy sparrow]

Sounds about right - revenge is good too for 2nd pack as a thunderclap

[solid sun]

I’ll t.clap the first mobs and then move on to the rest and my squad is just unloading on the first mobs

And then I get ??? When they rip aggro

[frosty mango]

If I had a nickel for every boomkin that spammed starfall while standing in a place where mobs would not run past me if they were to pull threat I’d have like infinite nickels

When in reality if they literally just stood in melee it would be a complete nonissue

[undone beacon]

Just stop taking boomkins ez

[frosty mango]

I just run full melee phys

Can’t have range issues if there’s no range 4head

[undone beacon]

So real for that

Survival hunter sweep?

[frosty mango]

Pwar/enh/feral/rogue/mw

I’ll swap the rogue for a mm hunter if they have a brain but only if

[undone beacon]

Replace the enh with a survival hunter ez

Survival sweep

[sick sentinel]

i dont see ret in there

[frosty mango]

Nah we need Skyfury

Gotta inflate my numbers

[undone beacon]

Survivalfury

[solid sun]

We run pwar/ret/havoc/surv/rsham

[sick sentinel]

i dont see ret in there

oh ok

[frosty mango]

Ret isn’t phys cleave

[undone beacon]

My push team fell apart before getting resil 15 poggggg

Short lived dream

[frosty mango]

Feral is basically arcane replacement for funnel, the rogue handles single target and the enh does shaman things

Plus mw brings another milly overall and like 600-900k st

Shroud has more value than mm but mm does insanely well in low pull count dgs like top and rook

I pretty much only pug tho so finding feral Druids is hard

Why are raiderio and wcl complete shit on mobile? From a technical standpoint they seem to be responsively designed and it’s just api calls but it seems like they wait for all of the data calls to complete before the page loads and some of them take ages on mobile

[heavy sparrow]

Ia it 3pm yet I wanna go vroom

[undone beacon]

Waiter waiter flood the channel with vault questions

[heavy sparrow]

Servers up yet?**

[undone beacon]

Alright nerds entertain me because I’m bored in this SD-WAN seminar.
They announce they’re reworking prot warrior next patch. What do they do to keep prot engaging and interesting?

[near salmon]

they gonna rework prot warrior?

[frosty mango]

You gotta clarify for the half readers man

[pallid quiver]

just zap us with electricity every time our attention drifts

[undone beacon]

No kidding smh

[undone beacon]

Hypothetical question

[sharp gale]

it is thought exercise question

[near salmon]

oh

[frosty mango]

They don’t rework it because it’s in a good place. They give us lust and/or skull banner back, and they make disrupting shout silencing shout that applies an aoe 6s blanket silence

Job done

[undone beacon]

I’d take that

[rough egret]

Infinite banner loop

[near salmon]

and that disrupting shout should not cost a talent point. Just make it baseline for prot warrior..

[sharp gale]

yes i don't see why they would rework prot yeah, but what they would keep is : thane gameplay loop as a whole and add things around it

[pallid quiver]

Also, thanks for popping in; I had to go to work, so I couldn't really elaborate much more.

Ultimately, everything about that fight depends on the group as a whole, just like most things at high key levels. It's a team game, after all, and there is a lot you can do to help, but there's also things others can do to help. There's honestly a lot going on in WoW, no matter how much people try to simplify it.

[heavy sparrow]

They don't keep us engaged and interested, actually, we need more damage output!!!11

[sick sentinel]

does ignorepain usually fall off in higher mythic keys

[pallid quiver]

Our talent tree could see some adjustments just to be a bit more modernized with other specs that have gotten overhauls; our tree isn't bad, but it's like,

too set in stone

I don't personally know what to do with it, though

[pallid quiver]

what do you mean

As in provides less value or just the buff drops off

[sick sentinel]

provide less value

i noticed threres a max to the shield

[pallid quiver]

Answer ultimately is yes, technically, since stats on enemies scale harder than the raw absorb number

But it works in conjunction with shield block, which forever scales with damage coming in

[frosty mango]

Ip is a smoothing tool not your primary mitigation tool

[pallid quiver]

IP can't ever be considered in a vacuum, since it's made to work with the rest of the kit

[frosty mango]

It isn’t meant to be up 100%

[sick sentinel]

ok

ya ok i should use more shield blocks

[pallid quiver]

You should be able to use both; shield block should typically be up for as close to 100% of incoming blockable hits as possible

[frosty mango]

Shield block is meant to be up as close to 100% as possible when in combat. Ignore pain is to dump rage if needed, and for periods of heavy predictable damage like large quantities of trash beating on you, or dots

But there’s not many scenarios where you’re spamming ignore pain (none that I can think of actually save three all of which only exist at the high end)

[chilly brook]

Rixxa Fluxflame is going to break me

Every 17 I’ve done is pain on that boss

Complete bricker of keys

[short nest]

hey how much % gain will the belt give us for st?

[small steeple]

Any tips or anything to keep note of for M OAB? Starting it tonight

[frosty mango]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/estimated-dps-loss-with-highlight-assist-and-one-button-rotation-in-patch-11-1-7-377287

Prot pal
Oof.jpg

[frosty mango]

I warn the healer every time and every time they just….i don’t what what they do

Certainly not heal me

[small steeple]

Cause I think it won’t use sotr as it’s off gcd

[nocturne spindle]

lmao

demonology

that has to be wrong

[sinful copper]

@gentle violet ohhh you're in this discord. Thx for the videos bro. I watch almost all of them

[gentle violet]

@sinful copper Thanks bro. Pop in here every so often.

[chilly brook]

Yeah I took 3 autos without a single heal

[sweet summit]

I think tanks should be self sufficient and do top dps actually

[dusky canopy]

I agree

Hardest position should get the highest payout

[sweet summit]

🤝

[dusky canopy]

🤝

[sweet summit]

i'll try to astral project and possess ion tonight to make this happen watch #news closely

[jagged pier]

We are getting that back in mop classic

[shut summit]

we saw how dps reacted to tanks doing damage at the start of the season with prot warr

aint gonna happen

[frosty mango]

our damage is pretty solid right now

[sweet summit]

they need to learn their place

[frosty mango]

were at a place where we can effectively out skill dps

were ripe for nerfing again imo

probably gonna see a hit to demolish or revenge imo

[dusky canopy]

Oh waahhh dps player 30 ilvls below the tank cant out dps the tank

Tough shit I reckon!!

[frosty mango]

nah you can definitely stomp a dps thats 675+ in overall by skill gapping them

I do it all the time

blizz doesnt like that traditionally

so we pay the price lol

[restive oak]

it was fun at start of season where we were just outdpsing real dps at equal ilvl

[pallid quiver]

inb4 they nerf vengeance

[chilly brook]

And I’m very excited to play it

[jagged pier]

They havent yet, they actually jist buffed a load of tanks too

[chilly brook]

It would be a bit insane for them to nerf it

Vengeance is mop

[vivid tendon]

Bit late to the chat but was wondering if we had any data on the defensive choices for the belt and how strong those were

[jagged pier]

I mean its on last patch anyway so we have nerfed vengence

[chilly brook]

@frosty mango I feel disgusting, I’m just yoloing 17s on my DH and it’s like less of a struggle than the warrior in some ways and I’m 11ilvl lower

And I know there’s things I could be doing better on DH

[chilly brook]

Last patchish

Since they’ve reverted some things to older states

And or just completely added new things

[frosty mango]

All things being equal dh is just easier in that regard

You just do 12 dps

[chilly brook]

True but at least I don’t lose aggro anymore after that threat buff

Actually I bet monk is much more enjoyable now thanks to that

[frosty mango]

I dunno I played brew a bit

And it just feels….eh?

I mean it’s not hard but your ranged tools kinda suck

I honestly really think pwar plays the smoothest

Prot pal feels awful to play I dunno how anyone plays that lol

[sinful copper]

not this season, for sure

[frosty mango]

I wouldn’t be so sure

[sinful copper]

why would they even bother nerfing pwar when 85% of top 100 is vdh? lol

we have what, 5-6 pwar in top 100?

[frosty mango]

Because they don’t balance around that?

At current pace our damage will again outscale other tanks imo and given the choice of buffing other tanks or nerfing us, I expect they nerf us

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a nerf leading up to next season

[mighty valley]

unless we somehow benefit a billion times more from the belt than anyone else, i don't see them doing a balance pass til ptr

[frosty mango]

Everyone clowned me when I said in week 1 we would see revenge get nerfed hard and guess what lol

[mighty valley]

right but that was during the time when they do balance patches

[frosty mango]

Yeah and I think we see wars get balanced at the end of this season

Before next season though

[mighty valley]

would be a really weird time to do it

[heavy sparrow]

I will look to the stars and think of your name the next time it happens

[frosty mango]

Where do I go to unlock this dumb belt

[jagged pier]

delves

[nocturne spindle]

mastery belt go brr i guess

[dusky canopy]

Do YoU gUyS uSe ThE vErSa StAt On YoUr BeLt FoR dEfEnCe

[sweet summit]

mods exile this user

[nocturne spindle]

yo zappy belt fits the mog

[sweet summit]

🙅

[snow estuary]

are myth capo knuckles better than a myth other weapon

[warm plinth]

Hi ergaqt

[dusky canopy]

Yo why’s this guy wearing his watch on his waist?

[frosty mango]

I think so yes if we’re talking about pure single

But I doubt it is overall

I’d sim it

[shut summit]

ST it is and you can wep swap it in m+, i just put it on for bosses

it's very minimal though

[lofty warren]

How is the 1 button thing only -20% if it doesn't push any defensives or offensive cds? I would think that would be like 50% debuf

[dusky canopy]

Just wait until someone figures out how to macro your offensive cooldown abilities with the one button assistant for the true afk gaming

[restive oak]

waiting for the addon that works around the gcd penalty

[frosty mango]

Pretty sure they protected those functions long ago

[lofty warren]

I saw someone posted that they parsed the blizz apls

[frosty mango]

AFAIK addons can’t dynamically click a button

Like it can tell you what buttons to press but it can’t actually click them, unless you are pressing them all individually - they can’t decide a cast on the fly and send the event

I’m like….98% sure

They changed that a long time ago because of the og decursive I think

[warm plinth]

Correct. Addons can't determine a button to press and then press it for you

[dusky canopy]

No but you could have a “one button assistant” addon that you can tell it to press X macro on the same keybind as the one button

Boom gaming

[frosty mango]

I don’t think you can

[jagged gust]

they got rid of that function like, 15 years ago

[frosty mango]

Otherwise hekili would be the most popular addon ever lol

[dusky canopy]

User razor mouse to have mouse button one press keyboard 1 and keyboard 2 simultaneously

[jagged gust]

RIP hunter 3:2 rotation

[dusky canopy]

Ez

You guys underestimate this

[small steeple]

suprising

[thorn wing]

New to prot warrior and I have some questions: 1-Which item should I craft first (I will play m+) | 2-Do you recommend using a macro with Champion's spear + Ravager? | 3- Is Impending Victory worth to cast or just as a little emergency heal

[small steeple]

1). shield
3). I use impending victory when I need a heal

[warm plinth]

2. No, most people dont use spear anyway but to macro it together you'd have to use something like a modifier or castsequence or something like that

[thorn wing]

Rly? Discord m+ build has Spear talented

[small steeple]

it has 2, MT prefers spear, but most people play Col this season, which uses roar more

[thorn wing]

Im currently playing MT because its easier and both are good, Col being better in dmg

[warm plinth]

If you play thane, then spear is better but most would play roar regardless (assuming keys) because it's a more frequent threat generator for aoe

[jagged gust]

Well there is that one macro that switches between roar and spear with a cast at cursor/character modifier

[thorn wing]

Should I switch to Col then?

[jagged gust]

Its better DPS

but play what you want

[warm plinth]

You can play either. Colossus is significantly more aoe dps

[jagged gust]

MT doesn't need help with threat for aoe so spear is fine if thats what you like

[warm plinth]

[jagged gust]

thats more a colo issue

[warm plinth]

Colossus also gets Demolish which is like being able to use rampage as a prot warrior. Bis ability

[lofty warren]

If you take the 75% parse on some mythic fight and then compare that to sim dps number, how much % worse is the parse number? Obviously it varies just trying to get an idea

[frosty mango]

Do i actually have to farm delves to get the belt things?

this is terrible :/

[jagged gust]

oh god we have to farm?

I dont need 1% dps that badly

[warm plinth]

Sims aren't particularly useful for determing how much dps you should do since Sims assume a patchwerk fight and most fights aren't that. They're a comparison tool more than anything else.

It's hard/impossible to say where you should fall in comparison to the Sim

[jagged gust]

https://tenor.com/view/apple-orange-gif-26930909

[lofty warren]

There is a wowhead that shows how much worse 1 button is to sim. I want to know how much worse real world parse is compared to sim

[jagged gust]

I mean, just walk up to a target dummy and find out

[small steeple]

I think you can just do 1s?

[frosty mango]

what does this even mean lol

[fathom forge]

you choose a path for ur delve tree at the titan console at the start?

[round pendant]

Isn't that what GSE does?

[frosty mango]

gse is a compiler

it will still be beholden to all of blizzards rules

[round pendant]

Yes but it still effectively allows you to create one button rotations

afaik

I've never actually used it

[frosty mango]

I guess it technically could

[lofty warren]

Select your unselected selection

[lunar jackal]

is the console stuff only delve related?

[sinful copper]

Fuck delves

[frosty mango]

yes

its really not bad

first char took me like, 15 mins to get

alt took 5m

just run them on tier 1

[lunar jackal]

then f it lol

do we have any recomendation on what to use?

checked the pins but nada in there

[cerulean tusk]

#news just released an article

[thorn wing]

Should I buy titan of industry shield and craft weapon or craft shield and buy remixed ignition saber?

[mighty valley]

Could craft both and get trinkets

[lunar jackal]

ty

[dark barn]

You have myth track option? If not craft a 681

[round pendant]

well

I'm dooming over this one button rotation shit again

Everything I said would happen is happening

[small steeple]

but nothings happened?

[torn gulch]

why would you doom over the one button rotation

when it's so much worse than playing properly

[solid sun]

So did something happen

Or did something not happen

[round pendant]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/estimated-dps-loss-with-highlight-assist-and-one-button-rotation-in-patch-11-1-7-377287

just this

[jagged gust]

Yapping.jpg

[round pendant]

alright I won't

[rain light]

yeah?

so youre dooming about what

[round pendant]

I mean I could write an essay about why I think raising the skill floor of dpsing to 70-90% of optimal is bad for the game

but I'll just get called a gatekeeper again even tho I'm as "gates open come on in" as it gets when it comes to people actually wanting to learn and improve at the game

[sharp merlin]

It's a casual game, why does there need to be a skill gap?

[small steeple]

i only see big donwsides from this. rather nothing to doom about. Its likely gonna be worse for most players

[round pendant]

The skill gap is important as it's what you traverse as you get better and improve at the game and that's a motivating and fun thing. If you don't care about that then it shouldn't matter to you if you're doing good damage or playing "correctly" so why change it?

[round pendant]

Most players aren't playing at 70-90% efficiency of a sim even while trying

In the highest end content, sure it's worse

but 70% of perfect is also sketchy for high end content as removing the cognitive load of thinking about your rotation is an insane boon

So when everybody's moved up into the top 30% (of current damage numbers) and the gap is way smaller the incentive to even design gameplay in a way that rewards skill expression will just fade away imo

fuck I said I wouldn't yap

[mighty valley]

glass half full approach: this might be the first time a lot of super casual players have even considered they could be sequencing buttons better for higher damage

[round pendant]

I just think there's a lot of knock-on effects and it's just gonna end up being bad for the game

happy to be proven wrong tho

[round pendant]

But do they NEED to do more damage? they're super casual I doubt it matters much for their enjoyment outside of seeing bigger number in details

[warm plinth]

Should be noted that most people are probably doing comparable to these numbers as it is XD

Like this is the loss compared to optimal rotation

not compared to the average joe

[mighty valley]

actual casual players still die in open world content and don't know what "details" is

some of them might have their eyes opened to "wait... there's a game here i can try and be good at?"

[round pendant]

If all your pug groups were the top 30% in terms of damage (ignoring the fact it frees up cognitive load) you'd have never bricked MOST of your keys or had anywhere near as many wipes

people underestimate just how good a group of all top 30% dpsers is

like yeah top 30% doesn't sound impressive but it's gonna do some wild shit to the content imo

[warm plinth]

I think that's way too optimistic tbh Harrow. Unless their chat is just turned off, they'd have heard of things like sims, guides, etc. and at least known that some semblance of resources exist

[solid sun]

I might catch flack for this, and I don’t mean to offend any of our harder trying friends

But wow isn’t an esport

It isn’t meant to be overly difficult imo

[round pendant]

and here I'm referring to top 30% of players, being 70% as good as a sim is better than that still

[warm plinth]

That's not realistic. That assumes that every key I've ever bricked, I bricked it to damage and damage alone.

[solid sun]

One button helper thing making people do their job better seems good

[mighty valley]

i promise you, you're overestimating how engaged the average player is haha

[round pendant]

There's content designed to be difficult in the game, this affects that so it needs to be considered imo

[warm plinth]

Damage is only one factor of why you fail content. Mechanics, healing, pulls, tank not falling over dead in one gcd

[solid sun]

Not difficult because of the rotation

[round pendant]

That's a fair point but ime a lot of bricks are caused by not enough damage meaning more mechanics come out and more time for people to mess up

it's rare that people die to the first swirly

it's usually an attrition thing if I'm generalising hard

[warm plinth]

Idk I've definitely had keys get bricked due to a failed damage check ofc, but I wouldn't even say it's the majority.

That' sjust anecdotal ofc

[round pendant]

It's not a black and white damage check that I'm referring to though

[solid sun]

Mythic raid and high end mythic+ will still remain difficult even if the wow population does more damage imo

[warm plinth]

I know what you're referring to

A boss/pack lives longer = you deal with more mechanics = there's more opportunity to fail said mechanic

[round pendant]

also don't forget only having to press 1 button and not think about your rotation at all will just mean people don't step in fire anymore

and

they might end up adding more mandatory kicks because of that

[warm plinth]

I mean, considering the other announced changes coming, I doubt that very much

[sharp merlin]

I think they should fix the game design, make it clear what things and how to counteract them, people don’t know what kills them (for example bleeds), the game isn’t very intuitive or friendly for new players, and because it’s PVE, there’s no humbling aspect like PVP games

[warm plinth]

Their goal is to minimize the impact of addons and as a result of that, they have to simplify things, not make them more complex.

Realistically the only numbers that actually matter from that article are the one button ones

So if you look at say, destruction warlock

[round pendant]

there's very simply specs in the game already that remove a lot of cognitive load so you can still perform well if that's a sticking point

[sharp merlin]

Ask a new player to craft a 681 piece of gear and look how hard it is ahaha

[warm plinth]

The fact you can be in the 90th percentile pressing 1 button is bad and wrong.

[round pendant]

I'm totally fine with them making specs more intuitive and comfy

[warm plinth]

But 30%? That's fine with me.

[round pendant]

I don't think giving everyone a 1 button rotation to do 80% of a robot's damage is a good solution is all

[jagged gust]

orly

[round pendant]

the crafting system is cheeks tbf

[warm plinth]

It's good, but there are things they can and should do to simplify it

The whole quality thing is not great

But the system itself (crafting orders and such) is good imo

[mighty valley]

they are pressing CDs manually... a thing many players don't do now

[sharp merlin]

Oh once you do a piece of gear it’s fantastic, but first time users, holy shit

[mighty valley]

it's not true "close your eyes and press the button" dps

[round pendant]

It's not 90th percentile tho, it's 90% of a robot which is way better

[warm plinth]

Sure but if the metric is just "press CDs on cooldown and then spam this button" and then you get 90th percentile, that's not good

Especially for destro that has what, like 3 CDs, and one doesn't apply in ST

[mighty valley]

also most of the existing difficulty on cast time specs is moving well to actually be able to plant and cast when you need to

[round pendant]

most players that are parsing 90+ aren't playing 90% as efficient as a simulation

[mighty valley]

which the one button rotation will not do for you

[round pendant]

that's like top 1 percentile for sure

[sharp merlin]

I also think they should tone down the mechanics, the amount of interrupts today vs. legion for example is horrific

[solid sun]

You also have to consider mentally checking out

[warm plinth]

That's already going to happen when they do the pass on addons

[solid sun]

If most of your time is just pushing one button it’s very easy to mentally relax

[sharp merlin]

I hope so

[solid sun]

And end up dying to something from sheer boredom

[round pendant]

lol

you would just be locked in on the kicks and swirlies in an m+ for example

[warm plinth]

In any case, I get yam's concerns. I guess I'm just choosing to remain optimistic. They can always adjust the GCD penalty later if they need to on a per-spec basis even.

[round pendant]

yeah I will say I'm not very optimistic about it

well I said I was dooming from the start

[warm plinth]

I think the numbers on the helper are fine though; it's not doing anything that hekili wouldn't do already

[round pendant]

I just don't see many ways in which the pros outweigh the cons lmao

[sharp merlin]

I want a season where it’s totally dependent on dps and making it a total speedrun scenario to time M+ keys, tanks invincible and healers be more of a support class and people aren’t sweating to stay alive but instead have to do gigs damage or an enrage kills the group would be amazing

[warm plinth]

Actually I think it does less no? I assume hekili tells you when to use CDs

[mighty valley]

they are for a type of player you literally never interact with or think about

[round pendant]

brother

if it's 70% of a sim it's going to affect everybody

especially in raid

I definitely interact with players in heroic and early mythic (pugging)

[solid sun]

It isn’t going to affect me negatively.

[mighty valley]

i'm saying the pros are for players that are not appearing in your pugs lmao

[round pendant]

where people are regularly grey parsing in my pugs

[sharp merlin]

Have you seen some dps in raid? I out dps at least 4-5 dps players, and I’m barely a raider. Maybe a few people should have 1 button lol

[mighty valley]

15% of people have aotc gallywix, gang

[lyric moth]

So am I supposed to chain run T1 charged delves until I max out my titan disc unlocks? This seems insanely mindless

[warm plinth]

I think I'm more likely to run into the person who turned their brain off and as a result is doing no kicks, defensives, etc (which already happens but is easier to check out if you're not doing anything anyway)

Than I am to be negatively impacted by improved performance

[round pendant]

my point is, in all those heroic pugs I've done where half the group is grey parsing

they'd be magically parsing purple+

obviously once everyone has it, it won't be purple anymore

but the point is the efficiency of all those people switching to it would go WAY up

[sharp merlin]

No, because the grey would still be grey

It’s just getting to purple might be harder

[dense mango]

finally learning prot in dungeons

admittedly im using hekili

but its my first tank

[warm plinth]

So what is negative about that, to you? Unless you play manually at a 70% level, you are still going to be doing better than them (or at least have the potential to do better than them)

[dense mango]

im kind of confused on how I establish aggro from pack to pack. is it just shield charge or thunder clap?

[round pendant]

It's not necessarily "negative" in how it'll affect my gameplay experience

but the point was that I will be interacting with people who are given a significant buff by the system

[bleak breach]

Not people on the 1 button being negative again?

[round pendant]

cause harrow said I wouldn't meet those players

[bleak breach]

I nearly guarantee it will help the bottom 30% and that will be about it

[warm plinth]

Any aoe skill will generate aggro. Thunder Clap, Thunderous Roar, Revenge, Ravager; you also have an aoe taunt

[bleak breach]

Also dps can just wait before they blow their load on a pack if they keep pulling threat

[warm plinth]

Ideally you decide where you're going to tank a pull and (as much as possible), you pull things toward you so that you can start hitting things as they arrive

[dense mango]

yeah

i tried tanking kings rest and its so weird..

why do they have that room with 4 staggered packs

[round pendant]

It's far far stronger than the bottom 30% of players

[dense mango]

its so weird

[warm plinth]

4 staggered packs?

[dense mango]

like

[round pendant]

tf is king's rest?

[dense mango]

oh you take down these 3 mobs

[bleak breach]

Like you’ve seen it used actively in raid and dungeon?

[frosty mango]

counter point - people will take the path of least resistance, this feature will just have people try to replicate it, fail, fallback to one button "well why should i try to learn if this does it better" and the general playerbase dps floor raises but game also stagnates because pressing one button repeatedly is not engaging

[dense mango]

wait 8 seconds

[frosty mango]

its bad for the health of the game and that has always been my issues with it

[dense mango]

the next one unfreezes

[bleak breach]

https://tenor.com/view/this-ukodor-fabled42-this-post-beard-gif-17164034

[dense mango]

BFA dungeon

[warm plinth]

It's a BFA dungeon

[dense mango]

the timewalking

[warm plinth]

They released BFA timewalking today

[round pendant]

The numbers are out for single target

I linked the wowhead post earlier

it's 70-90% of a sim's result for st pressing offensive CDs and consumes on cd

apparently mm hunter is 10% off sim in aoe

[warm plinth]

It's been a while, but I do not remember a part of that dungeon where you have to wait for packs to unfreeze.

[round pendant]

Remember you have 2 charges, so you can charge to one pack, tclap, charge to another troar, shield charge tclap, leap to last

etc

lots of variations on big pulls

It's just about getting comfy with your abilities

[warm plinth]

The beginning requires you to hit the gong to spawn the packs or whatever, but there shouldn't be time between the packs? They should all unfreeze at once

or spawn in, w/e

[frosty mango]

just run screaming into the mobs while furiously pressing your new one-button-win key

itll be fine, promise

(but not really)

[round pendant]

lmao

[round pendant]

yeah you get it

roid always with the correct takes

[dense mango]

after first boss

[bleak breach]

The thing is, players who need the button aren’t pressing cds, using trinkets or pots and other stuff as is.
They will still be a lower than the pack. It will just help bridge the gap.

[round pendant]

I hate the term but it's also a bit of a slippery slope. The incentive to improve and play well just completely goes away and so does the incentive to design content or gameplay (rotations, etc) that require anything more than the 1 button rotation