protection

[rough egret]

But the dmg feels good i must say in comparison to bear 😄

Im only 640 atm on warrior but it pumps

[dusky canopy]

1 out of 6 tanks being vengeance smh!

[warm plinth]

Trye

True

Oh wait it's 3 of 6

Monk isnt ranged either

(Ngl forgot what class was the 6th tank)

[slender bison]

We technically have charge + pummel, so that's a ranged interrupt with a twist

[rough egret]

Shield charge can be used too right but its not on short cd

[dusky canopy]

“They don’t need a ranged kick because they can charge to the mob”

[warm plinth]

Shield charge is a stun, not an interrupt.

[slender bison]

And unless you're desperate in ToP vs bone spear/Gorechop AoE vomit mobs, you use SC as cleave damage and control on prio target

[frosty mango]

Disrupting shout is 14 yards

[slender bison]

Anyone tried Battering Ram + Sidearm to check the numbers?

[frosty mango]

You can just sim it

[warm plinth]

The difference between sidearm with and without battering ram would be insanely small.

And there's a 0% chance it would come close to a 25% increase to revenge

[plush socket]

do we play colossus or mountain thane on mythic gallywix?

[round cliff]

we play colossus always

[kind glen]

Probably preference

[plush socket]

also, when is spell block useful on gally?

[jagged pier]

Check the sheet

[plush socket]

thanks

[prime sphinx]

suppression in p2 so boss doesnt move

[slender bison]

Absolutely cringe

FL+10 fast run

[coarse latch]

Druid has skull bash, it's basically charge and pummel in one

[frosty mango]

1% seems so sad

[mighty valley]

this should be the best season for sidearm. and yet,

[warm plinth]

I know. They were included in the ranged kick trio. Paladin, monk, and warrior kick are all melee range

[warm plinth]

Too bad they made barbaric training go from shit tier to goated lul

[slender bison]

Sidearm has damage at DF S3 levels

[coarse latch]

Feel so nice on my rsham to kick wherever whenever

But then I have to be in melee pretty much anyway because my other stops are melee

[hardy snow]

sidearm was never great, it was just better than rage cost increase

as it got removed, we can just not take sidearm anymore 😄

[frosty mango]

I love my quel'thalan friends

[jagged gust]

Just remember, they changed barbaric training only for them to rip it away from us a patch note later

[shy python]

WTF is this scaling? I can't survive more than 5 sec vs trash

[patent scroll]

Remove your shirt/tabard

And rezone

[jagged gust]

Scaling is whackadoodle in duos

[shy python]

crazy..

[jagged gust]

I went in with a guildie last night and it scaled him down to level 1

Was hilarious

[chilly brook]

I heard dastardly duos is broken

Permanently putting people at 1 ilvl

[patent scroll]

Known issue 🤷‍♂️

Literally unequip your shirt and tabard and rezone

They likely changed it so instead of scaling your gear up to 619 always (so scaling old shit up as well) it now scales you to the lowest of 619 or whatever the lowest equipped item is

[sharp merlin]

We did it, healer was fucking goated holy hell

I was 0.5% health on the risen Burnpike or whatever his name is at the end of the dungeon, my god that guy trucks

[frosty mango]

See

No sweat

[urban bane]

let's gooo

[sharp merlin]

That coat is sick btw ahahaha

When is the next time a rep bonus comes along? Might grind it

[split stratus]

Is 17k haste enough to play ITF with 100% SB uptime or that's still a bit short ?

[solid sun]

It’s enough

You can swap at 16k

[frosty mango]

Pay attention to your usage because at 17k you’ll be a little thin

[split stratus]

Alright, thanks guys, will give it a try and see how it goes then !

[fresh juniper]

Does the head enchant count towards the TR choice nodes? The bleed amp

[sharp merlin]

Do the head enchants help with threat? 😂

[frosty mango]

Sure

More damage more threat

[fresh juniper]

It's just that spear feels hyper wonky af for me, not sure why but it has a pretty high input lag for me.

[sinful copper]

Wow 4 other ppl that press kick

[jagged gust]

Spear/TR diff is incredibly minute

Play TR, better threat gen and easier to use

[sharp merlin]

Makes the dream work, blizz needs to do more to help players understand mechanics from a UX perspective.

I tried to help some newer friends through an 8 and went on my bdk so the healer can just focus on them. It was rough with people not understanding the concept of kicking. Wish Blizz just did more to help explain what mechanics do without having to get a Master’s degree in your spell book and dungeon journal

Same with defensives, even at higher keys I notice players just don’t press them enough

[rough fiber]

Guys quick question, I'm tanking Gally MM ATM, any tips when taunting at bomb tank cast to not let Gally travel a lot? On last soaks Gally decides to travel a lot further than the previous 2... Any tips/ideas? Thanks in advance <3

Any taunt timing or something that I need to know?

[frosty mango]

Wait for him to shift focus to other tank then leap out

https://youtu.be/OrMyTuiiV7Q?si=IXm_sb2VMR0zvuip&t=97

You can see how meeres and co are doing it

[raw parcel]

Just came back after a couple months away. Are crafted items now substantially lower compared to myth vault?

[knotty mantle]

Why does prot warrior mastery increase block chance when SB gives us 100%? Is it just a remnant of old times?

[raw parcel]

Don't sleep on critical block, which is the real benefit.

Well, that and the AP.

[jagged gust]

critical block slaps in conjunction with Spell Block

[lusty grotto]

its just a plus, its not the main benefit, AP is

mastery is the lower in the prio because of that reason, but its still fucking strong

which is why we dont avoid it

[open rose]

what's the best defensive trinket combination? i have cinderbrew stein and ritual mud, but i hear bombsuit is best

[solid sun]

We don’t really use two defensive trinkets

I don’t even think the turbo high keys are running two

[open rose]

well i'm just trying to maximize my survivability beyond my class abilities, so whatever is going to help there

[jagged gust]

With the disclaimer that it's not recommended to use two defensive trinkets, Bombsuit and Mud are the two premiere defensive trinkets this season

bombsuit overall better, but mud very good in certain dungeons like floodgate/priory

[open rose]

not recommend bc they share a cooldown? cuz if so idk what that means, cuz one comes off CD before the other even if i use two on-use

[jagged gust]

because there shouldn't be a situation where you're reliant on 1, let alone 2 defensive trinkets a majority of the time

[lusty grotto]

if you need to maximize your survivability, consider just optimizing your rotation

[open rose]

DOTs

[lusty grotto]

what about them

wall exists

some are even spell blockable

demo, punish, spell reflect's magic DR

there is absolutely no situation in this game this season that you need two defensive trinkets for

[fresh juniper]

Tried it, feels much better overall

[jagged gust]

hell yeah

[lusty grotto]

furthermore, stat trinkets are defensive in nature as well since our secondaries provide defensiveness

so to reiterate, there is no situation this season where you need two purely defensive trinkets for

[fresh juniper]

Sounds like a super noob question, but how does it work? Press SpB and we good or use it with SB?

[lusty grotto]

everything you need is in your toolkit, up until... 18s maybe

[lusty grotto]

correct

you need SB up for Spell block to have 100% block chance

we have a sheet with useful info on what abilities are spell blockable thats pinned (its the same that lists reflectable stuff)

[fresh juniper]

Omfg mom get the camera, I did everything right just with my feelcraft

[jagged gust]

plus you're verifying your assumptions

very good practice

[fresh juniper]

Thx for the answers folks

[sinful copper]

Yeah, you learn the dangerous spells and when you need a defensive by playing healer for a week lol. That's what teaches the most about a dungeon

[knotty mantle]

I do get that but I am just curious as to why they even put this there in the first place. It seems like such an odd bonus to throw in. Was SB not at 100% uptime over the years?

[chilly brook]

it used to be not 100% yeah

[lusty grotto]

we're not blizzard so

its just legacy

but i lean more towards... all the other secondaries already have everything

[jagged gust]

Plus for newer or inexperienced players who might not know how to have 100% uptime it's a nice little bonus

[frosty mango]

I found 4k upscaled icons and my life is so complete now

SO crispy

[dapper fjord]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TJk62cRbfmtvwKLA?fight=last&view=replay&position=481435
I suck at analyzing logs. At 8 minutes exactly Holy Paladin gets smacked by Xav. Why?

[lusty grotto]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TJk62cRbfmtvwKLA?fight=last&position=476435&translate=true&type=casts&source=10&ability=62124

thats why

[dapper fjord]

Thanks.

[lusty grotto]

the idiot hammed taunt

[frosty mango]

Who are we to judge

Maybe he was feeling strong

[lusty grotto]

im judging cause why would you have taunt easily accessible as an hpal

[frosty mango]

Just kidding we are here to judge

[lusty grotto]

just be me and have it bound on shift + spacebar

[frosty mango]

I would hit that so much

[round cliff]

ive been saved by bubble taunts before

tbf

by my hpal

[lusty grotto]

those are possible with a complicated bind though

[frosty mango]

Pet taunts were fat last season

Nothing scary this season in trash

[lusty grotto]

kinda sounds like that guy had it bound to just space bar

[round cliff]

kinda like my guild accused me of doing when i kept ripping aggro early on 😭

[lusty grotto]

my taunt on dps classes is shift + mouse 4

and on hpal i think its the same?

[frosty mango]

I had a guy in a heroic pug last week who kept taunting on cooldown because “it gives more threat”

shift m4 is execute for me

[round cliff]

shift + mouse 4 is the execute key

[lusty grotto]

lmao thats a classic andy

alright now kiss

[frosty mango]

Hell yeass

[lusty grotto]

you heathens

execute is 5

perma

since arms

[frosty mango]

Nah it’s shift m4 for me in arms

Too

Cleave is 5

[mighty valley]

(dropping by hpal discord) Hey guys dose anyone have a macro for holy shock + taunt

[frosty mango]

Taunt for me is shift mwheelup

[solid sun]

We did it

We really did it

And I got the mail muncher that run!

[frosty mango]

Grats

[solid sun]

ty

[lusty grotto]

congrats

[round cliff]

5 is healing potion

wym

[lusty grotto]

thats ctrl + 5 for me

[round cliff]

ctrl5 doesnt exist for me xd

[solid sun]

My execute is 5 too!

[round cliff]

i dont wanna take my whole ass hand off wasd

[solid sun]

SS, T.clap, Revenge, SB, Execute, Taunt

1-6

[lusty grotto]

i dont do 6

1 through 5

modifiers

qerfcxz

modifiers

[solid sun]

I have an mmo mouse so I use 1-6 plus a bunch of modifiers and a few keys around wsad

[lusty grotto]

mouse3, mouse4 and mousewheel click + modifiers

[solid sun]

interrupt is shift-space

Which has been fun

[lusty grotto]

i dont mmo mice, i hate them

fps mouse only

[mighty valley]

one button Macintosh mouse from 1989 please

[solid sun]

Alleria is like the exact opposite of how I play this game

Tryna be patient and just dps down during windows is awful

I'm tryna bonk her on the head 100% of the time

[jagged gust]

Feels very soulslike

[round cliff]

got sprocket to 70% on pull 3 but thats the ez part of the fight

might be here a while

[ocean bloom]

aight 1 dinar purchase available do i get Jastor or Titan

i have CE

[lusty grotto]

eh either is fine

[sinful copper]

U don't want tome?

[ocean bloom]

i think ill do jastor since chances of jastor going me to are low

i was thinking tome too

[lusty grotto]

i would say jastor too

[ocean bloom]

i bought HoC

[lusty grotto]

myth jastor is bis

hero jastor is not

[ocean bloom]

ye ik

[lusty grotto]

shield is whatever

can get it next dinar if anything

[round cliff]

how far away do i need to get w/ party pack

[lusty grotto]

as far as your healers can handle

[round cliff]

idk what that means

[warm plinth]

https://tenor.com/view/flock-of-seagulls-i-ran-so-far-away-couldnt-get-away-new-wave-gif-17861515

[next pasture]

does anyone have the gif of the dh saying "big pull" and then getting one shot

[lucid mica]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1055196260329590874/1320668978732859402/big2.gif

[next pasture]

thank you

[sinful copper]

Hahaha love that gif

[compact oriole]

how does hero bombsuit match up to myth book?

[round cliff]

whyd party pack do 10 mil dmg to me

thru shield wall and spell reflect

i only had 6 gunk stacks

do i need to start invoking my right to call for externals

[sharp gale]

Logs

[round cliff]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DCNTbMtGhnHmXz32 idk what pull it was

but it's the 2nd party pack

that's fucking me up rn

[sharp gale]

My co-tank takes 9 and 10 m party packs

[round cliff]

so i just gotta suck it up

maybe ill save spell block for that 2nd one since healers are busier there

[sharp gale]

How many Hp you got bc 10 m seems like something I survive as dps

[round cliff]

i think im at 16 or 17 mil rn

[cerulean tusk]

Only 40-50% mitigation?

[round cliff]

unless i didnt have IP up?

im pressing all i can

shield wall + spell reflect

[sharp gale]

i take 8.5m suppressions as dps and i'm chill, you shouldn't be scared on tankbuster removing 70% of you health

[round cliff]

maybe its just cuz this is the first time in my tanking career something chunks me this hard

it feels "wrong" like my healthbar shouldnt move

cuz nothing else makes it move

[sinful copper]

U leap out last second?

[sharp gale]

yeah dangerous tankbusters are something you see the first week in heroic on the last bosses, it is hard to get the feeling

[round cliff]

ya

[round cliff]

i didnt take damage at all in heroic except for gally frontals tbh

mugzee does 0 tank dmg

[sharp gale]

mugzee doesn't have a real tankbuster

you could 1 tank him if one didn't have to run in heroic

bandit thing as bdk was funny scary since i started to play the spec

[cerulean tusk]

You are not using spell reflect, you are not in dstance and you got no IP ready and up.

You took 20m hit and mitigated 12%, so you died. Dstance alone would have kept you alive

[round cliff]

wym im not pressing spell reflect

im pressing it 100% of the time

if i dont press it its cuz we're wiping

[cerulean tusk]

On yet deaths I checked it wasn't up

[round cliff]

i WANNA say its because wipe was called

[cerulean tusk]

If busters get you tho, use dstance

[round cliff]

im in dstance 100% of time

[cerulean tusk]

Let me double check

No, logs say bstance

[round cliff]

bruh

i mustve fat fingered the button

😭

ill move it

i literally dont press bstance, ever

i dont press bstance in 2s

[sharp gale]

pull 8 you took one with nothing

[cerulean tusk]

Ye, you swapped to bstance pull 16, half way

Get a WA that screams at you

[round cliff]

I THOUGHT I HAD IT

[cerulean tusk]

Meh, we all do dumb dumbs, next time ya got this

And you won't die to the same hit with 2m overkill dam, as you gonna mitigate 3m extra

[round cliff]

idk if its just because i bravely volunteered to be the party pack mule

but the diff in tank responsibility between anything in the patch before now

and rn

is crazy

i have to actually turn my brain on while i figure out the sprocket script

[cerulean tusk]

Well at least we solved why your health bar failed ya

[sharp gale]

pull 11, you got that too

[round cliff]

got what

[sharp gale]

you just spell reflect on the second one

[round cliff]

i didnt shield wall?

[small steeple]

SPROCKETMONGER HAS BEEN KILLED

[cerulean tusk]

Hell YEAH

[sharp gale]

the same party pack at 1:14 if you spell reflect + SHield wall (and dstance )

[cerulean tusk]

80% mit vs 12%

[sharp gale]

8-9m is what you should take basically on the 1:14

[round cliff]

what do all the numbers mean jim

M is mitigated

B U and A tho?

[sharp gale]

red is what chunks your health

[round cliff]

blocked

[sharp gale]

previous : 13m health deleted with just spell reflect
this one : 9m with SR + SW

[small steeple]

for refrence, on my guilds kill literally tonight, this is what I took on the pyro party packs

[round cliff]

2 mil wtf

im taking 8 mil w/ defensives used properly

oh is that sac

[small steeple]

yeah

[cerulean tusk]

Sac is opop

[round cliff]

whyd u only take 1m on the 2nd one tho

[small steeple]

suprised barkskin isn't shown here, I had it on 2nd one

[round cliff]

oic

[small steeple]

or i thought so

[round cliff]

well then wtf is the 3rd

u didnt have IP up

took only 4m

[small steeple]

oh i see, that was other tank taking 3rd

so thats the groupwide damage

[round cliff]

o

[small steeple]

yeah he took 1st and 2nd too, the way polarity lined up

[sharp gale]

you too, you take ridiculous damage party packs

800k

[round cliff]

thats spell block!

[sharp gale]

(yes spell block is strong)

[small steeple]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LBT73qnQ8k4Z2bzK?fight=last&type=damage-taken&source=17&view=events&target=28&ability=1214910
kill log if you want to check it, not too versed at looking at damage intake myself

[round cliff]

ive just been pressing spell block on pull

lines up perfectly to take the 1st party pack

and shaves 30 sec off the cd

huge

[small steeple]

my guild had red take party packs, as it let blue move boss in better positioning

[round cliff]

my cotank is guardian druid

dont want him to move his fat bear ass more than he has to

[small steeple]

lmao

[sharp gale]

your report is really weird

2min you procced bsv obviously but is not showing

[small steeple]

hmmm. let me upload my own log, and see if that ones okay, this was the raid leads

[patent scroll]

Does the hit that procced it even get any benefit from it?

[sharp gale]

yes

that's why you can procc bsv but your hp doesn't move in your view

[patent scroll]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/LBT73qnQ8k4Z2bzK?fight=last&type=damage-taken&source=17&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%240%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%24256305784.0.0.Warrior%24false%24386397&ability=1214910&view=events

[sharp gale]

it's the did i just die rn? moment

[patent scroll]

Doesn't look like it procced on time here

[small steeple]

if you see all damage, it might be froim the gun

[sharp gale]

yeah it seems it is just other damages, it was weird seeing bsv proc so close of a party pack

[small steeple]

I think I had pretty high stacks at that point

[sharp gale]

yep it's the 14m melee you have like 12 stacks

[prime vale]

don't ask how i found this message because i don't know myself but feral snapshots tiger's fury, bloodtalons, stealth rake, and clearcasting (thrash)

but thrash literally doesn't matter

rake trucks though if you're not a nelf you're trolling

[keen vine]

anyone got a priory route that skips the knight patrols 1st pull and is 14-15 pug friendly? I do not know what packs to pull to make up for the difference lost

[sharp gale]

If your first pull was 1 + the knight pack you have 1 too many fountain packs

[lone current]

Its not exactly a pug friendly route to do that, but you need to double invis pot

then take sully with the fountain packs

but there's lots of casters

[sharp gale]

And yes skipping knight requires invis pot I imagine

(You can’t take the first 4 dudes)

[keen vine]

you dont need invis pot to skip knights

[lone current]

Yeah. You'd need everyone to use an invis pot during countdown, to give you ~8 seconds to get halfway down the first gate and skip the first 4 pack, then everyone would have to re invis to get into the back side of the courtyard

[keen vine]

no you dont

[lone current]

how else would you do it

[keen vine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46LUThF6Lyg&t=1097s

like this, i saw it this morning and thought id give it a try

[lone current]

That's not 'pug friendly'

[keen vine]

walking with 4 mobs after you?

[lone current]

but yeah that works

[keen vine]

that dont cast?

[lone current]

you'd trust pugs with that? to not body pull anything

[keen vine]

yeah

[sharp gale]

Oh yes ofc if you wait it works

I thought time mattered

You can do a regular los at the entrance at this point ngl

With a knight, and then chain pull the rest with suley

[keen vine]

im trying to do a route without knight + suley since allot of the time keys just deplete on 1st pull and im tired of doing priory 2-3 times just to change my key

if i chain with knight, idk where suley will patrol to

[sharp gale]

If you did knight + suley + 2 fountains packs I understand the wipes

[keen vine]

yeah thats what im doing

its not really working anymore 😄

[sharp gale]

What is the comp you usually run ?

[keen vine]

well i pug so i get what i can, but i try to have a dk

[lone current]

since you're pulling everything in the end room you'd have to pull more outside. You can try something like this,

[sharp gale]

3 archer is rly hard with knight+ sully + target capped if you don’t have those specs on a pack « kill quick or it kill us »

[keen vine]

ye, and sometimes if i get arcane mage they just focus suley and he dies while everything else is above 50% hp when shayne comes done and it ruins everything

pulling like sha did should be prety easy, tried the pull in m0 and is free af

[sharp gale]

Isn’t 4 a 4 casters pull?

[lone current]

Yeah. If you're trying to avoid pulling many casters you'd have to craft some cat pulls

[sharp gale]

It is not pug friendly if you need a stop rotation

Or things die quick in those lvl ? It’s been quite some time I didn’t push

[keen vine]

in 14 you dont need really need to stop every cast

[sharp gale]

So I guess it dies in the time you can solo carry kicks

[keen vine]

i would take my chances with pull 4

[lone current]

This route is tough to cook up. You're gonna be adding so many extra pulls to avoid casters and knights.
If you're taking any cat pulls for the extra % you gotta make sure the healer is aware & can handle them, since it requires lots of burst healing to get ppl to full hp to remove the bleed buffs.

[sharp gale]

Yes just do usual kick everything / let people throw every mass stop on first casts, then shockwave, then mass kick, then kick + ST stun

[slender bison]

No, you don't need invi pot to skip knight patrols.

The knight patrols are desync. Just go behind left patrol and pick fountain packs into Suleyman at stairs and you're done

We're late into the season, so easy with the fake news from streamers. The only reason to use invi pot is to tank Suleyman in the 3 pack casters.

#protection message

Here is no knights, no patrols route. Just tell your group to stack with at Suleyman pull at stairs for shooters to jump

[lone current]

Yeah i assumed he was talking about the caster pull, but saw the video after

[fresh juniper]

Is there a site where I can look at some routes? Did all with feelcraft but a prot warri isn't my vdh, so I feel like I need better routes as we prots don't got SoC/SoS(but we got the talent node for something similar).

[slender bison]

Keyguru, but most routes there are garbage/griefers (x2 knights pull kek)' as they are made by people doing 8s and 10s or tailored to meta, so you will brick your key if it's higher

Exception being linear dungeons. Better to make your own or ask around

In rookery parasol skip, people usually pull big at start with the bird and they wipe because nobody assigned kicks to thunderer. It's better to ignore it and get 3 more void crushers inside. Details like this break keys in Pugs

[fresh juniper]

Ya or as it happened on my vdh: I go in deep and raw(dat wording lel) first pull dfc, start with casters and moleherds, normally a easy pull, SoS/SoC to position casters to be kicked into the wall to my left and then it happens, 5head mage blinks in and kicks em away, stays out of melee for stonethrower who has been pulled by it and blames me for bricking the key.

Fun fact: dude refused to lust the whole time.

[slender bison]

You need to make your routes as brain dead as possible for PuGs. Like don't rely on someone doing something. Except when they have to go LoS. Also beware of routes with skips as 90% of them are for vdh nelfs

So either roll a nelf prot warr or rework the routes/pulls

[fresh juniper]

I don't like skipping anything for the most part, if we got enough % maybe the last miniboss before the arena boss in ToP.

LoS seems something people can't/won't comprehend, there's always one standing brain afk in the open getting nicked and blaming the group.

Or I shouldn't invite people without checking em first, either or.

[cerulean olive]

skipping in pugs usually ends up badly

[earnest cove]

Love it on 10s with 10min remaining - „death skip this“

[patent scroll]

Just plan some weird ass skip, don't link your route, don't mention it, and then just invis pot when it's time and blame team for not knowing your favorite twitch thots route

[fallen lichen]

Yea, and complain here about the puglife here after

ThEY DiDnT KnOW mY EaSy SkIpRouTe

[sharp gale]

I prefer MDI pulls in 10s over stream thots skips in 10s

I was on my rdruid the other day in a floodgate, the key is really slow-chill

We arrive in front of bubbles : vdh tag him double jump pull the pack, sleepy big boy, and patrol

I was ????

[cerulean olive]

gigachad

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

Ive been pulling bubbles and 3 adds behind him in my keys been working quite well esp, with DK in party

because im bad dragon warrior (not night elf)

[sharp gale]

There is the same pattern in priory, sometime I’m healing im just afk, everything is smooth 2x2 packs and tank now decides to pull braunpyke+patrol+right pack

My brain lights up in 0.1 sec when they do that

[azure mural]

hewo everyone..!! uhm i was wondering why my single target damage is so low as protection warrior ): when i watch famous people play and sim? said i should do 1.7m..

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/MDqGrnJANQR2ycvb?fight=2&type=damage-done&source=32

[sharp gale]

First thing, I guess playing your m+ talents in a raid might be something, for the rest I need to turn on my pc to see but yeah just with ilvl you should do more / idk gally LFR tho but still

[azure mural]

someone recorded it idk who and thought its like a good substitute? for training dummy i guess..

but yeah ): everyone said i should just press everything on cd and i tried to line stuff if it was close

[sharp gale]

Real fights is better than training dummies yes, it’s just idk if Gallywix LFR has adds

Or if there is adds, if they survive more than 0.1 sec

[azure mural]

oh they die really quick reallyy

[hardy snow]

cast more shield slams

[sharp gale]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/joR6zUY9A7N2D5TCWAu5Zd
sim is 1.8m if you just hit the boss with these m+ talents

[azure mural]

yeah q_Q

and i never ever ever got close to that in keys either q_Q

[sharp gale]

no it is in raid bc it has all the raid buffs, it's just you did gallywix LFR with m+ build

[azure mural]

is it really true that i just press stuff on cd x_x

[sharp gale]

maybe you need to take a closer look on what you do on pull

[azure mural]

embrassed..

LOL

[sharp gale]

like, the order of the spells + ravager??? (you take 30 sec to cast it)

[azure mural]

e.e

[sharp gale]

you press shield charge on pull obviously bc you think "i need to have shield block" (don't press shield charge for Shield block on pulls), but it takes you 40 sec to press shield block for the first time in the fight, no need to delve too deep

[azure mural]

ooo

[fresh juniper]

Looks like a case of "spacing out" I got that most of the time in raids too, but I play ret there so nobody cares

[azure mural]

i do space out sometimes

but when i try and see 900k dps in dungeons

i space out more

[sharp gale]

you do have good uptime so i wouldn't say space out

99.70% you press buttons

but not the good ones

[azure mural]

(:

pain..

im not smart to play prot warrior

[sharp gale]

well seeing the timeline you do press revenge/shield slam, but shield block.....

[fresh juniper]

Being a bit overwhelmed with the situation in general does that to you too, what helped me in raids is, pretending that it's just a relatively hard m+ boss with more people, turning off details helped me too in raids, nobody besides yourself cares about your dps, mechanics are more important at some points.

[azure mural]

oh i think mid fight uhm i tried to press it less? to see if i can get big dps instead

but i failed..

[sharp gale]

shield block increases shield slam damage by 30%

your first source of damage

[azure mural]

omg no way WHAT

[sharp gale]

#protection message

for the rest it seems fine, aside cooldowns usage

[azure mural]

omg no waaay

[azure mural]

im mind blown

[fresh juniper]

Feels like me lol: "why am I rage starved all the time?!" Proceeds to spam SS/IP macro

[sharp gale]

tbf he doesn't waste rage / he could press shield block

[azure mural]

omg ur a wizard OO: thats so cool

[sharp gale]

a gnome*

it's funny bc you know how to use the tome trinket x)
dw everyone learn specs at their own pace

[azure mural]

whenever that weakaura lights up

and i SLAM IT!!!

AND THEN I SEE SHIELD

):<

[marsh sage]

Im really struggeling with openers, while learning prot im 649 ilvl inn+10-11 and i lose snap aggro almost every other pull.

I try to thunderclap or revenge and wait for the gather then use ravager, roar or demolish.

Is there any good videos or tips for this problem?

seems especially a problem when i have a boomkin fx

[azure mural]

omg same

its demon hunter and paladins for me

demon hunters get slapped to the floor like fwy

and i say sorry like five times so they dont get angry at me

[sharp gale]

i think you can do 200-300k more just on shield block+ CDs usages (also pls use raid talents in raid)

[torn gulch]

If you re 649 and the average dps now in 10s is 670

You ll lose aggro

[azure mural]

thank you so much ;-;

[sharp gale]

if you can spend shield wall charges, you can shield wall before demolish to have avatar (don't if you need shield wall for something defensive)

[azure mural]

ooo

[sharp gale]

this talent

[azure mural]

yeah!! i just learned that few days ago!

[sharp gale]

avatar giving you

[azure mural]

wasnt sure what to pair it with

[sharp gale]

i use on demolish

[azure mural]

but demolish makes sense?!

[sharp gale]

you know around every 45 sec you have the 10 stack demolish

so you just wall 1/2 demolish

[azure mural]

oooo

[sharp merlin]

I'm guessing you don't SC in because it's good dmg when a pack is pulled together?

you charge in, shout, with the Rage already put on, you SB.. right?

[azure mural]

whats a SC :D?

[sharp merlin]

Shield Charge

[azure mural]

ooo

[sharp gale]

it is maybe more advanced bc it use a def cd to do more dmg, don't focus too much if you have trouble surviving tankbusters etc

[sharp gale]

regular pack for me is charge shield slam+shield block, thunderclap for standard 0 rage start, then it just depends since you can start the next pack with some rage / remaining shield block etc

[azure mural]

aoe seeemed fine? i think? but single target was the biggest issue for me x-x

[sharp gale]

i will not check aoe on gallywix LFR sorry

you could do 1.6m minimum just by hitting the boss ST

[sharp merlin]

See i'm too scared from playing bdk / vdh not having shield block up immediately on pull, cause the charge only generates 20 rage, right? the SS is for the extra 10

but im getting better

SC is good to keep aggro once all piled up

[sharp gale]

i don't insta use other things as quick bc in dungeons, the first pack you touch is usually the one you will move to the next when you do multiple packs at the same time

and bdk can use dancing rune weapon out of melee 👀

and yes the SS is the extra to be able to Shield block

but you could also avatar to gain the 10 rage to shield block, or ravager before charging

[azure mural]

oooooo

[sharp merlin]

I know, but before you didn't used to have something targetted

I wish demo shout wasn’t on the gcd, so stupid

The amount of times I’ve pressed it a millisecond too late because of it being on the gcd feels awful

[hollow aspen]

Hey guys, what's the thing with the belt coming soon ? do we know what's best already ?

[ionic nimbus]

We will get an overtuned belt, will be presumably much better than any other belt. That’s it

[warm plinth]

Oh yeah I forgot about stealth rake. Dumb brain moment. Didn't know thrash though

[round cliff]

damn

another mario kart, another game where im a daisy mach bike main

[solid sun]

I'm a nelf but I only play guardian because the WA pack for feral makes me feel like I'm the dumbest person

Feral has like 1700 different claw attacks

And apparently is a beekeeper?

idk seems F'd

[ionic nimbus]

It seems like Druid got two sets of speccs. 3 buttonololol (guardian and balance) and the piano on the other side (feral and restro)

[fresh juniper]

Is ASC a thing for prot warriors? Not a big fan of lens/threads on tanks.

[round cliff]

you've already put more thought into it than it's worth

[frosty mango]

It can be yes, thread will generally perform better but ascendance isn’t gonna be some massive detriment

I run ascendance because I run ascendance as arms and trying to mess with embellish slots cross spec is irritating

One of the misses of the embellish system is not being able to toggle them on/off

[fresh juniper]

Threads is just bad on tanks imo as you take dmg all the time and rarely stay at 80%+(atleast that's me), lens is just meh the whole time if there are more than 1 target(nearly all the time lol), ASC seems to be better on paper but it takes time to stack.(90s or something can't remember)

[round cliff]

u should usually be above 80%

[neon elk]

I have like 80% + uptime on threads in m+

[frosty mango]

You say “threads is bad on tanks” can you quantify that?

You cant make an absolute statement and not back it with data. If you are sub 80% health as a warrior for large periods of a dungeon you are playing incorrectly and/or your healer is wearing a blindfold

It’s objectively the best choice for us, that being said ascendance will be just fine and embellishments are probably near negligible to your tangible performance

[urban portal]

vibe based gaming

[shrewd plinth]

How complex is mitigation? If I’m about to take a magic damage tank buster, and I fire off demoralizing shout, spell reflect for dr, and shield wall; already have the magic damage reduction from d-stance. Feels like there’s a lot of %s in there and not sure how they interact

Tldr are they multiplicative with diminishing returns?

[urban portal]

they are multiplicative

so 2 sets of 20% DR is 1-(0.8x0.8)=36% DR

but thats not diminishing

[shrewd plinth]

I mean the first 20% is shrinking the total hit by 20%, and second is shrinking it by 16%. I’m not sure if diminishing is the right word for what I meant but I see what you mean

[urban portal]

thats not really how diminishing return works

think about it this way

if they were additive

lets say you have a 50 and 30% reduction

if you only have 50% reduction, you take half the damage

if you the 50% and 30% added together itll be 80%

so you are taking 1/5th of the damage

which means you are 2.5x tankier than just having 50% reduction

[shrewd plinth]

Ahhhh I see

[urban portal]

if they were additive they would be scaling exponentially with each other

[urban portal]

with your example here, if they added, you would be over 100%

and you would just be invincible

or close to it

well not quite 100%

[strong forum]

That's why the practical cap of versatility is also 198%

[urban portal]

the 198 to 200% power spike though

thats the verse cap we all achieve for

[strong forum]

There isn't

[waxen quarry]

4000% haste colossus

[strong forum]

You literally can't

198% is cap

[urban portal]

sadge

we know this from bfa right

[strong forum]

Cuz its 99% DR

You can't achieve true 100% DR in wow without absorbs or immune

[patent scroll]

If anything going into stupid % of vers might backfire

[waxen quarry]

and brewmaster would still die from 5 melees

https://tenor.com/view/cat-smile-happy-happy-cat-smile-cat-gif-18259408098481512759

(my pug brewmaster)

[patent scroll]

Remember the hot moment like VDH could obtain some thousand % of vers in SL and got oneshot by anything because some spaghet

[strong forum]

I'm almost confident blizz will not forget about corruption terror

[waxen quarry]

prolly some overflow

[strong forum]

If you Re-used an ability it would cancel out the stacked up hundreds of vers %

And "refresh" from 20 stacks

Instead of extebding the thousands of stacks

Iirc

[urban portal]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/1k519az/other_tanks_build_defense_i_build_character/

[waxen quarry]

idk to me brewmaster seems like pwar without shield block

hp doesnt move for like 3 seconds

then explodes

somehow lives the first explosion

all healer externals on the second

dies on 3rd

cinema spec

[mild river]

How ppl handle momma in 17+ keys? Every group fails that boss because the adds are not killed fast enough (ppl focus boss and cleave adds) and she always get her shield up which means high damage even before her transition phase. If that's the strategy, then the job is on healer?

[fierce cradle]

Hello fellow prots, does some1 know if spellblock works on final stings in cinderbrew meadery? Tried +19 but got like insta wiped on final stings or any advice how to handle those?

[frosty mango]

Yes I believe it does, there’s a spreadsheet in the pins that will list it

[frosty mango]

Brew is super tanky if played right paper if played poorly

Heal enough of them and it quickly becomes apparent who does and does not understand the spec

If you have a large pull and you see them purge all their stagger as soon as it hits red prepare for brew deletion

[warm plinth]

Or spell block crit blocks, the real DR goat

[sweet summit]

is that still not fixed??

[warm plinth]

Nope

[frosty mango]

Spell reflect enters the chat

[plush socket]

ik its not the right channel/discord to ask but if you dont purge at red stagger, when exactly do you press purify

[meager quail]

If you purify the moment you get to red stagger on a big pull you’ll run out of purify charges and eventually flop. You can live for a while into much deeper stagger than the threshold from yellow to red, so should be using your brew a bit later so that you get more value from your purifies.

[plush socket]

🤔 interesting, its changed quite a bit since I've last played it I suppose

[urban portal]

Oh I thought it was capped once it hits red

[meager quail]

Brew is way tankier than most people give it credit for, and imo not nearly as complicated and punishing as a lot of people make it out to be. If I didn’t hate WW I’d be playing monk as my alt, but I do so here I am in the warrior discord!

[meager quail]

Nah, although if I recall correctly the blizzard ui does highlight purifiying brew when you hit red stagger, which doesn’t help.

[urban portal]

Really

So you don’t cleanse on max stagger?

[solid sun]

Well you do

But you don’t

[meager quail]

Imagine that your rage bar was green from 0-30, yellow from 30-50 and red above 50. You’d be pressing ignore pain when your rage bar was red, but it’d be a mistake to press ignore pain as soon as it turned from yellow to red.

That’s the most warrior centric analogy I can come up with 🤣

[chilly brook]

It’s a bit feelycraft

You purify when you think you’re going to start struggling

You kinda let yourself rot so to speak

[plush socket]

why do most people run bolster instead of spell block on gallywix?

is it just a personal preference?

[prime sphinx]

forgot to switch

u can play either tho spellblock safer but ppl running bolster probs running execute talents vs punish build running spell block

[plush socket]

i see, that makes sense

we killed the boss super fast on our first kill and i barely got to do any execute damage lol

[frosty mango]

Oh no

You spend almost all your time in red stagger

lol

Big reason why I love warrior

Only one item on checklist

Mob in front? ✅
Ok zug time

[dusky canopy]

Zug life is the life for me

[patent scroll]

it's always been like it is now, red stagger happened in like a singular boss melee swing for the longest time and was the most useless indicator of damage actually in stagger, hence why the normalized stagger WA was made

Like I'm sorry but if you purified just because debuff was red you were wrong in like 9/10 times

[frosty mango]

That’s one of my primary issues with the brew design is not only is stagger unintuitive it’s counter intuitive

You see green/red/yellow, your natural inclination is to purify to keep it green

And we can’t fault people for coming to that conclusion.

Warrior is pretty intuitive as is Druid, though I think the game could be better about stressing how important directionality is for block

[patent scroll]

Yeah, it's a really weird mechanic that needs kinda complex WAs to be able to make any decision around, partially because the indicators are so useless, and partially because it's really hard to make it not math and numbers

[rough egret]

Is this way how to use IP on warrioir?

[frosty mango]

Some sort of ui indicator on nameplates that indicates if a mob is considered “in front” of you would be absolutely huge for intuitive prot design

[patent scroll]

What was the stagger cap even, 10x life? so you take your healthpool in a tick?

or well I guess two ticks because it was every .5 seconds if memory servers but

[mighty valley]

close enough - you press it enough to avoid overcapping rage ever but not so much that you don't have enough to spend on revenge

[patent scroll]

But anyway the maximum it can reach is uselessly large for most content, the color coding is worthless because it happens at like 50% of lifepool in stagger pool, and realistically the normalized stagger idea was brilliant because it compared the pool size/ticks to dtps but that's basically impossible to implement in base UI

[frosty mango]

It’s not impossible, lua is a fully functional programming language and blizz can absolutely implement it

[rough egret]

Ty, my keybind for it is on mousewheel, as its rage dump on bear for me. I guess i need more practice my rage management on warr

[mighty valley]

it is a rage dump and that's a fine bind for it, just don't run the tank dry. if you ever miss a GCD, you probably overspent on IP

[patent scroll]

It's impossible to make it in a way that makes any logical sense to just be there without an explanation, which is why I don't think they're ever going to do it, hence impossible

[frosty mango]

I trained myself by creating a weakaura that sounded a super annoying horn if I was at <70 rage for more than 1.5 seconds

[meager quail]

Maybe I’m broken but stagger, and brew as a whole, has always seemed pretty intuitive and forgiving to me.

[patent scroll]

It's exceedingly unintuitive if you want to play around stagger properly

Otherwise yeah, it works just like any other class

[rough egret]

Ill keep that in mind thanks

[rough egret]

Yeah im gonna do something similar, thanks for tip!

[solid sun]

I play warrior because pwar discy is the best

Brew doesn’t have us

[frosty mango]

The issue is it seems intuitive until you get to a +17 and purify your red stagger immediately and then get curb stomped because you got no brews

[solid sun]

Does anyone remember when there was a blue post on how to play brew

Because so few people even knew how it worked

[dusky canopy]

You can’t play me I’m sharp as a tac!!

[frosty mango]

Monk discord is pretty solid

They ain’t us tho

[nocturne spindle]

a tic tac

[dusky canopy]

[meager quail]

What I meant was that to me it’s always been intuitive to me that you shouldn’t purify simply because you’ve hit red stagger. Don’t let brew cap, make use of your other tools (eg celestial and expel harm), get comfortable with not panicking when your health has dropped a bit.

Admittedly I didn’t push much when I tried brew a bit last season but the advice experience brews gave seemed fairly obvious to me (ability to execute is a different matter).

The triple guardian pull in mists was fun the first time I went in on a 12.

[frosty mango]

I think most people will see “red/yellow/green” and immediately think “red bad press purify”

[solid sun]

Red means stop

Can’t fight anymore gotta get pured up

[frosty mango]

“Hol up bro I need a drink”

[solid sun]

See

[meager quail]

Yeah, blizzards UI is pretty misleading but if you read tooltips and stop to think about how it actually works there’s nothing too weird about it

[frosty mango]

They should change the name of stagger to “inebriation” and purifying brew to “hot coffee” and expel harm to “cold shower”

Then monks could cosplay clubbing frat bros

[meager quail]

What do you call celestial brew under this naming scheme?

[solid sun]

Isn’t there a blackout combo version of purifying brew

That could be Coldbrew

[frosty mango]

But what I really, truly want - is a one handed gun and shield wielding heavy armored tank

Do I care that it doesn’t fit the fantasy? No. I don’t.

[solid sun]

Between the Eyes is a top shelf name for an ability

I’d dig a tank version

[frosty mango]

shit make it a gunblade

Gunblade/shield

Someone consult the lore books surely there’s a precedent

[solid sun]

Can’t

Can do gunblade with a trenchcoat

No shield though

[meager quail]

I’m still bitter than renamed the demo fel guard tossing his axe into a crowd from hold this for me to guillotine during the beta

[solid sun]

That’s also good for sure

I kinda wonder if we will ever see a new tank spec

[mighty valley]

Monster hunter gunlance is basically this setup

[frosty mango]

Why

Cut a hole in the shield

Shoot through shield

Turret stance and mobile stance

[solid sun]

Because thancred doesn’t use a shield and he’d be the class trainer

[frosty mango]

Uh, gaius?

https://tenor.com/view/gaius-ffxiv-final-fantasy-ff14-gaius-van-baelsar-gif-26537580

[solid sun]

No shield

[pastel summit]

hm what's with all the dracthyr prot warrs

[meager quail]

I’d be down for this but only if your abilities include iconic voice lines such as “those webs will summon nerubians, don’t stand in them” and “next time try some harder hitting moves”

Gotta motivate the rest of your group

[frosty mango]

Boomstick

[frosty mango]

Stop poopooing on my dream

[solid sun]

Engineer from Wildstar

Ranged tech dude

Maybe pets?

[cerulean tusk]

The racial CC probs

also, scalies

Nome being the biggest of them all

[pastel summit]

I just seeing oddly high number of them and wasn't sure if it was of some use in raid

[cerulean tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/love-derg-dragon-scalie-scale-gif-20472128

[pastel summit]

presumably the jumpies

[vocal cave]

barbaric training or sidearm for MT ?

[frosty mango]

Does anyone remember allods online where one of the races was like the three little dudes

And one held the shield, one held the sword, and one did something else I can’t remember

[frail ibex]

Off topic question but

are there any other m+ discords out there for setting up teams for push keys? Only have m+ friends and I am getting really sick of trying to pug 18s

[harsh trellis]

Wowmadeeasy

Discord

[patent scroll]

There's https://discord.gg/mythicplusfriends but I can't speak for their activeness as I don't really use it

I know they at least had some people doing title content expansions ago

[frail ibex]

Could you send me a disc link?

[frail ibex]

Yeah I use them already

Just trying to expand where people can see me

[frosty mango]

If you increase your fat and sugar consumption while simultaneously decreasing your activity levels you will definitely expand to the point where people can see you

Wait wrong discord

[frail ibex]

Stop I was in a bad mood

dont make me smile

fucker

I need to stay bitter about getting declined to 18s

[frosty mango]

Warriors support our brown brothers

[patent scroll]

Ah yeah, good thing I can't read

[zinc juniper]

what is better as defensive trinket for m+ ritual mud myth or bomb suit hero?

[vocal cave]

pacemaker

[frosty mango]

For floodgate and priory - mud will perform well
For all others bombsuit

Prior to 16/17 you typically don’t need defensive trinkets and the recommended combo is pacemaker/tome

Heroic vs myth mud is not super relevant - what makes it good in those dungeons is the cdr on it

The difference in absorb between heroic vs myth isn’t really an issue

[cerulean tusk]

12m vs 16m shield doesnt matter much, but 16m makes me happier

[patent scroll]

oh yeah I need to think what to get next week now that I ratted a full clear on warr

[cerulean tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/lessar-toaru-to-aru-majutsu-no-index-to-aru-kagaku-no-railgun-anime-gif-936703522623316960

[frosty mango]

You could change one word in this sentence and change its entire meaning

[jagged gust]

Jastor personally

[patent scroll]

went... about as expected

[jagged gust]

Oof

[frosty mango]

This picture made me retch

[frosty mango]

Should be pumping arms with those kill times

Send the executes

[jagged gust]

Brother are you raiding with veteran weapons?

[frosty mango]

I almost had 5m as arms on h vexie but our shaman lusted on pull

Rude

And inconsiderate

[jagged gust]

cherrypicked, but had to take a screengrab of the perfect DPS

that 7 ruined everything

[dusky canopy]

The Rick log looking mighty fine on arms with the boss dying right avatar your 3rd avatar

Just go again you can do it!

[patent scroll]

Hero
and signet

[frosty mango]

Are you on whisperwind?

Recognize that name

[patent scroll]

Yeah, I let a few expire, missed the refreshes on most adds and then just got mid RNG

[jagged gust]

I think I have a few toons there so likely

[noble cipher]

sup guys, sorry for my eng. i have a question - what item i need to take for dinars? i dont play raids, only m+ and weekly events (casual player). with one is best choice?

prot warr

forget to write xd

[jagged gust]

Not 100% sure, I play on like 6 different servers

[frosty mango]

Check the pins, in the wowhead guide linked there is a section on dinars and a tool to help you choose

[noble cipher]

okkk ty, sry for probl

[frosty mango]

That’s what we’re here for

Helping people, shitposting, and memeing

[harsh trellis]

https://discord.gg/6kvbygnx

[frosty mango]

The prot warrior trifecta

[sharp gale]

I saw ppl talked about brew stagger, is the dogshit design of you tank better in max stagger still a thing ?

[nocturne spindle]

WME is def not for 18 pugs

its for people struggling with like 10s and 12s

[sharp gale]

No Pressure and MPF are the two i know / heard about it, but i don't use them tho

btw i did the switch windows 10 -> windows 11

[frosty mango]

Shaman complains to other dps about being under tank in first pull

Clear first boss

Shaman below tank on boss

checks notes

Yep that’s standard pug behavior

[nocturne spindle]

DND is the one ive had luck with puggings 16/17s

havent seen 18s though

[sharp gale]

i think the small amount of keys i left are keys ppl are being toxic with each other

i see 2 apes arguing, i right click myself + leave group

or another pattern where i leave : key holder talks to much about the route / or in the key in general mid-combat, say stfu pls, if he dares to talk back i leave

pls don't make ppl press enter and type something mid-combat

[bold geyser]

anyone have link of sheet for spell block and spell reflects ?

[nocturne spindle]

[bold geyser]

oh yes remembered tnx bro

[frosty mango]

I just hit em with the old tyfi

[warm plinth]

To this day, I've only ever left one key (unless someone else left first or the group as a whole decided it wasn't worth continuing)

It was a Vault of the Wardens, the first week we ever had the bursting affix. I pulled a pack of kobolds, everyone but me dies to bursting, I get blamed like I'm the one that designed packs with multiple mobs

I was like nope, /leave

[frosty mango]

I’ve left tons of keys

I always give it the option though, I ask them if they want to continue

[patent scroll]

I've left maybe idk 5 keys, latest one last season

[frosty mango]

If people are needlessly toxic though I usually just say thanks and bounce

[patent scroll]

When I was healing Arakara and got a pretty meh team overall, but the joke was that the tank paladin literally had pressed 0 SotR, basically 0 defensives before basically dead

I was wondering post 1st boss like what the fuck is happening here

looked at details and boy

[frosty mango]

If you mean just like straight up noping out, I’ve prob left 5-10 this season? Always either with toxic people or non responsive people

[patent scroll]

cba, way too much effort for a weekly

[warm plinth]

I don't really respond to toxicity at all. Like I just say nothing. Though I did have a guy in a Freehold once ask me what I was doing (I was hardcore meming that key). I told him I was doing his mom and continued pulling.

He didn't even respond

[frosty mango]

Sometimes I do ask

Like

Last before the start of rookery I said “hey we have 3 caster dps so let’s make sure we don’t pull the 3 caster pack with the double caster pat and bird”

Then he pulled it and I said “hey why did you pull that”

And he said some particularly unsavory things towards me. Things that would get your arrested in real life lol

Yep “thanks for the invite”

[warm plinth]

That's when you do the 🎵 fuck this shit i'm out 🎵

[frosty mango]

I try not to engage toxicity but I will ask people to improve, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying “hey rogue you have 1 kick, need to step that up please”

[warm plinth]

I can honestly say I've never experienced anything that horrible though. Usually just someone making a snarky remark or something that is easily ignored

Had a really cool healer in my first darkflame which was like a +8. I messed up a couple times. One was a big overpull on the 2nd pull of the dungeon and he just said "don't ever do that pull again"

And then later on the candle boss, I got hit with pickaxe and he just said "hide behind the statues when you get that"

[frosty mango]

Yeah I think stuff like that is perfectly fine

[warm plinth]

Yep

[frosty mango]

A lot of people react poorly though

[warm plinth]

I think people just expect the worst, and so they want to get a jump on worst lol

[frosty mango]

I dunno I think it’s trauma

Low key land is a very toxic place

[warm plinth]

dunning kruger in full effect

[frosty mango]

I do a weekly m+ event for my guild where I teach people keys and the audience is usually like the casual folks who are running 5-9 keys months into the season

And almost always they aren’t like overwhelmingly bad players they just need some guidance and some confidence, but the toxicity in pugs at that level is crushing

[warm plinth]

That's cool. My server used to have something along those lines but that was during the Legion/BfA days when there were like 10x as many people doing keys, so we had a lot of volunteers to teach people

Had to decommission it because it was just dead

[dusky canopy]

@warm plinth ok brother here me out

What will it take for you to change your servers tag to 🗡️Zug

[solid sun]

Were there 10x people doing keys then as now?

[nocturne spindle]

i just checked every season

SL-now had like 2-3m runs week 1

bfa and legion had shit ton less keys

way more popular in DF-now than before

[warm plinth]

No, they didn't. Because until 8.1 (first major patch of BfA), raider.io could only pull from Blizzard's leaderboard, which was only the top 500 runs for each server. If your entire group was on a large server and it wasn't Tuesday, it was very common for your run to just not be counted by raider.io at all.

It wasn't until 8.1 that raider.io was able to pull on a per character basis and have the accuracy that is has now.

[sharp merlin]

I remember Legion not being super gatekeepy

Like it is today

But boy if you had a class with a bad legendary you were screwed lol

[solid sun]

I feel like m+ has only grown since legion

[sharp merlin]

It’s grown for sure, but mechanics design has become so much worse. I just want to play the game

[warm plinth]

I mean idc if there's more or not tbh. There are less people willing to help people learn, so I shut the program down. But his method of proving that BfA and Legion had less keys is inaccurate due to API restrictions at the time.

[solid sun]

We need to ask the graph lady

Maybe they have more data outside of just what raider.io currently has available

[warm plinth]

I don't know how you would really track it outside of API pulls. Like I don't think it's even possible that someone could have short of having some program refreshing and taking screenshots of every realm's leaderboard every 10 minutes for all of Legion and the start of BfA

and then somehow parsing that data

It would be a huge undertaking that has no real gain or upside

[sharp merlin]

Maybe it’s more a reflection on gaming. I remember it was much easier to get people on comms, back then you had ventrilo or some discord medium, but now finding people who are willing to comm can be tricky.

I found since post covid people just aren’t as social, but that’s just me, I’m always super happy to have comms and work together to get through tough dungeons

[warm plinth]

idk, it wasn't super common to get in voice with people in Legion either

BfA I wouldn't know, as I was in a premade team for basically all of BfA

[solid sun]

Pugging has felt exactly the same to me

Dungeons get harder but the experience largely stays the same

[sharp merlin]

Maybe like Andy Bernard from the Office said: “I wish you knew when you’re in the good old days and when it ends”

[warm plinth]

Yeah idk, I had a harder time doing high keys in Legion vs any expansion since then

[sharp merlin]

I remember it being a much more social game, rather than today’s pugging scene where everyone thinks they’re the main character

[warm plinth]

Because Legion was literally just meme 1-shots and giga pull kiting

[solid sun]

Pom just yapping

Respectfully

[sharp merlin]

Hahah maybe

[frosty mango]

If m+ hasn’t grown wtf are they doing

[warm plinth]

I think you're just being nostalgic tbh

which is fine, not judging. But I'm not remembering it that way is all

[sharp merlin]

I miss legion.. 50% pulls ahaha kiting entire dungeons

Tanks were fucking invincible

[warm plinth]

M+ as content has grown but that doesn't mean we have as many players or as many players playing it

[frosty mango]

We definitely have way more players doing m+

[warm plinth]

If you say so.

[frosty mango]

We don’t need charts and graphs to tell us that, blizzard wouldn’t maintain a game mode that doesn’t drive engagement

[warm plinth]

Who said it didn't have engagement

[frosty mango]

I’d be interested to see raid numbers

[warm plinth]

Everything is relative. If you have 12 million people playing a game and 6 million are doing a type of content, that's still a massive chunk. If you then drop to 6 million players and 3 million are doing a type of content, that's still a massive chunk

[sharp merlin]

I remember they used to release player numbers, or sub numbers but they stopped doing that

[warm plinth]

But you still have 3 million less players doing it

[frosty mango]

Ok yea if we’re talking raw numbers

I’m sure it’s less

lol

[sharp merlin]

But it’s all relative too, based on time into the season

[warm plinth]

yeah that's gonna be a thing no matter what. You always have a spike at start of expansion, then another spike at start of each season (but probably won't be as high as the expansion spike)

[sharp merlin]

Agreed, but runs does not also correlate to player numbers

[warm plinth]

yeah

Could be just people doing more ofc

[mighty valley]

that's honestly not a bad dropoff tbh, i thought way more people would dip after s1

[sharp merlin]

People might just be doing 1-2 slot in the fault rather than the full 8

As long as we don’t have a dungeon that comes in before M+ was created I’ll be happy. No Everbloom, Throne of the Tides, Grim Batol.. those keys can die

[mighty valley]

i thought grim batol turned out pretty good

i've never liked any part of everbloom or throne though haha

[warm plinth]

tbh only throne is really bad in my eyes of those 3 lol

[solid sun]

Throne is a great dungeon

Y'all wild

Oh wait

[warm plinth]

Like throne and VP would be the two worst by far after Legion

[solid sun]

Is that the one with the squid at the end

[warm plinth]

Yes

[solid sun]

Okay nvm that one blows

The other one is great though

[sharp merlin]

Yes

The gauntlet

[solid sun]

Grim Batol was okay

[sharp merlin]

Where if people don’t kick you just wasted 30 min of your life

[warm plinth]

ngl they had a strong start on old dungeons in keys with iron docks and grimrail

[sharp merlin]

The dungeons are actually great, it’s more the damage profiles were created without an infinite scaling difficulty designed for them, so things hit wayyyy too hard or seem way over tuned

[warm plinth]

They did pretty well on both of those after some tuning

[mighty valley]

grimrail was AWFUL for a week then aight

iron docks was yet another victim of "oops we forgot about quaking"

[warm plinth]

lul

Was really fun til they nerfed the balls 😦

[mighty valley]

such is life

[warm plinth]

Lemme just go ahead and pull half the dungeon rq and then run it over with a gigantic spiked ball from hell

[solid sun]

That trinket that put a barricade in front of you made that strategy so sick

It was like a turn damage off button for while you're setting it all up to get ran over

When/if Seat returns, I'll be happy

[mighty valley]

glasses up nose shard of annhylde's aegis

[solid sun]

lol

That sounds right. I think it dropped off The Nine

[warm plinth]

do you even wear glasses?

[mighty valley]

uh

no

shockingly perfect eyesight

[warm plinth]

IMPOSTER!

[mighty valley]

i shoulda been a Top Gun...

[solid sun]

Instead you're a Top Pen

[warm plinth]

like a naval aviator or like the show Top Gun

Or no that's top shot

But that would be cool too

[dusky canopy]

What are they hiding!?

[solid sun]

The icon for your rip tag is frightening

[warm plinth]

was looking for a quick gif reply but they're all among us related

[dusky canopy]

Gnash left me on read so no Zug tag apparently

[warm plinth]

peasants

Why would I make mpf's tag zug XD

[dusky canopy]

Because warriors are the coolest spec duhhh

[solid sun]

is mpf even still real? Or is that different than the program you cancelled

[warm plinth]

MPF is still a thing; the academy is not

[dusky canopy]

It’s a large M+ community

Pretty cool

[solid sun]

I'd like to be an instructor in the Academy if you resurrect it

I think Roid and I would make for a great combo

I show them what not to do and he shows them what to do

[warm plinth]

[dusky canopy]

Roid”stack” !?!?

[solid sun]

Rhoidno

[warm plinth]

Can we talk about how dumb and annoying it is that you can't sell the item that teaches a pet, but you can cage the pet after learning it and sell it???

[jagged gust]

and there are also arbitrary limitations on which pet you can and cannot cage

[warm plinth]

yep

[frosty mango]

Whoa

I’m a great teacher but I’m not sure we want me teaching m+

Lesson one - healers adjust

“Do you ever look at a pull and think - can my healer handle it? Think again brown brother, because it’s not your problem. Send it.”

[dusky canopy]

Healers always holding back the big pulls!! Smh!!

[sinful copper]

On big momma, are u guys pulling in a few groups throughout the fight? Should I start doing that to save time?

[frosty mango]

I pull 2 guys in, depending on where it is, either the two from the stairs or the two on the other side in the corner

[sinful copper]

And that's it? 2 next to the box as well later?

[frosty mango]

If we have lust I pull the bloodwarper pack

[sinful copper]

I've seen 2 next to stairs, then 2 in corner later, then 2 next to box as fight goes on

[frosty mango]

But I think that’s unnecessary

[sinful copper]

No shottttt u pull that into boss LOL

That's madness

[frosty mango]

Why

[sinful copper]

It's one of the hardest hitting packs in the whole dungeon

[frosty mango]

With lust and prio on warper it dies quickly

I wouldn’t do it on like an 18, maybe

But also see lesson one

[sinful copper]

Yeah I'm just trying to figure out small ways to improve timer for 17s

I think that one is too risky for my blood

I think I need to race change to NE too cuz double hop skip, double machines in ML, bubbles, etc are too valuable

[next pasture]

give warrior meathook from season of discovery?

think they’d be meta?

[mighty valley]

i did not play wod, what did meathook do

is it just

death grip

[next pasture]

yeah

2 extra stops on a short cd, assuming we get something like death’s echo

[mighty valley]

i don’t think they’re gonna take death grip from dks in retail lmao

[heavy sparrow]

@lusty grotto O'thy lord bestow upon thee presence of thee

[pallid quiver]

i think they should give warriors a pocket DK

[heavy sparrow]

Vulpera Tanks with "nose for trouble"
Let's say 16m health, that would be up to 800k of damage mitigation.

Would this be after parry/heal absorb/critical block/ignore pain?

[sinful copper]

They should just give warriors lust

It makes sense like a shout

[heavy sparrow]

Like a banner of some sorts

[mighty valley]

my wife has been playing dk so I have one

[fair beacon]

heyo, I got a question: I have only managed to kill the first few mythic bosses and already have the gear from them, as well as the mythic TOME and PACEMAKER trinkets. Is there anything else worth getting? For example I have the heroic bombsuit, but some have suggested for dungeons I could get the mythic RITUAL MUD trinket. ideas? 🙂

[sinful copper]

Yeah mud is nice to get

[idle copper]

Mud is good for Flood and priory as the CD reduction gets a lot more mileage - out side of that theres not much in it for bombsuit (im paraphrashing what others have said)

[fair beacon]

so, dinars are useless to me?

[dusky canopy]

Is there even remotely a chance of you killing more of the bosses on mythic?

[fair beacon]

not for me there aint, pug's life is hard 😦

[dusky canopy]

Then buy whatever seems fun or whatever you might be able to use to min max a specific dungeon

[chilly brook]

The desire I have for my character to be an actual Garlean who literally just uses an Imperial Gunblade is high

[frosty mango]

Gunblades would be super popular

[next pasture]

i don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to give literally any other class a grip. even if it was only for prot warrior. DH has a better version of gorefiend’s. and a better version of disrupting shout. and meathook wouldn’t be a total ass pull because it at least exists in some version of wow now, obviously it’s just there because there’s no dk in sod, but still.

[mighty valley]

also they don’t really care about long term balance in sod

they’d need to give dk some other reason to be brought to raid if we got grip. and i dunno, it’s just not a vibe match for me, warriors go to their targets

[next pasture]

and warriors in all forms of content are almost literally playing a single player game, if they didn’t have battle shout, there would be straight up no reason to have one in raid

dks also have slappy hands, and death chill or whatever it’s called

+ranged kick. i don’t think dks are gonna be struggling to find use if warriors did get a grip lol

[mighty valley]

yeah, DKs straight up did not get brought to undermine because nothing was grippable haha

[next pasture]

i mean, one could argue stix, who was like… the hardest boss of the tier pre nerfs

[frosty mango]

I disagree

Death grip isn’t why dks get brought, abom limb is

One single grip isn’t worth much

[lusty grotto]

WHO HAS SUMMONED ME

im currently in a mood too

cause people cant fucking figure out WAs on sprocket

[frosty mango]

Don’t you work in IT

[lusty grotto]

sir

how dare you

you of all people

[frosty mango]

Just sayin people not bein able to use weakauras should not be a surprise to you lol

[lusty grotto]

i think thats exactly why im in a mood

[frosty mango]

Last tier after seeing mythic ovinaxx I just said we weren’t doing it

Nope

I know people and that ain’t even happening

[lusty grotto]

fucking brood man

[frosty mango]

You need a full it team just to get your raid on liquid or northern sky was

[dusky canopy]

People can’t do bombs or what?