protection

[round pendant]

like Luerce was saying

[jagged pier]

it started because hes number 1

[round pendant]

fbv vs brv is so minor who cares

but the influence he has is just funny

[jagged pier]

yes im not disupting that, im saying the filter down happens then websites like murlok or raider or archon are just used and followed

[round pendant]

yea

[jagged pier]

it doesnt matter who it is, when chinese prots were top

we had questions of why they were using x trinket or talent

[frosty mango]

Those Chinese dudes running eye

Then you see a video and they’re literally doing the craziest stuff to enable it and you can hear the cries of their healer in the background saying “help me help me”

I imagined the last part but the thought of dragging architects into bosses in floodgate as a healer main haunts me

[solid sun]

I also don’t really understand the goal of the site. Which I think is why they’re so missed on me

Io, logs, guides, wowhead/iv in general, the class discords, etc

The goal or purpose of them is very clear to me

I don’t really get archon or murlock

Idc what a bunch of people who aren’t me or aren’t in my situation are doing

I love watching Dorki. I also know I’m not pulling off what Dorki does because I’m not him and don’t have his teammates

[frosty mango]

They are info aggregators

It’s the same as looking at wcl top 100 except it puts all that info on a single page in an intuitive interface

That’s all

[solid sun]

Yeah I don’t really understand the use of that

I mean I understand that it’s organized and displayed better

I just don’t know why I’d ever care about that information

[frosty mango]

Are you familiar with investment funds

401k etc?

[solid sun]

I know I can put money in a 401k to save up for retirement

[frosty mango]

Most everyone saves for retirement - some people (not many) will choose their investments and stocks themselves, because they understand the game and want to optimize at that level

But nearly everyone else will just choose a fund that is an aggregate of the best performing stocks across a pool of generated data, they get asked one question (how much risk do you tolerate) and then they get a simple, easy thing presented to them

To many people that kind of thing is valuable - they don’t want to do the math and the thinking they just want to get it and go

It’s that same thought process in the game, or anywhere in life really

[solid sun]

Okay, so at the risk of sounding difficult or curmudgeony…

why

[frosty mango]

How old are you lol

[solid sun]

Like I get this would be super helpful in the area of finances

I’m def not a money wizard.

[frosty mango]

Most people aren’t wow wizards, and most people value convenience over performance

[solid sun]

But between this discord and wowhead I have access to every piece of prot warrior information I’d ever need

[jagged pier]

u can already see this in the world of finace more companies etc have to disclose what they buy

even some ppl like congress

[solid sun]

Pretty conveniently

[frosty mango]

And most people don’t know class discords exist

[jagged pier]

there and even funds and places where ppl just follow congress because they all rtrade based on what they are voting for

[solid sun]

but they know about murlock?

[frosty mango]

Yep, lol

And then when you get older you come to the realization that two things are overwhelmingly true above all else

[solid sun]

Also I’m 38

[frosty mango]

1. people are supremely lazy any time they can be
2. a lot of people just live in ignorant bliss

[frosty mango]

Oh yeah you definitely know people are lazy then

[jagged pier]

theres only 2 guarenteed things in this world,

1. death
2. taxes

[solid sun]

It blows me away more people know about murlock than the class discord

[jagged pier]

i mean alot of ppl dont have discord

and dont want to come across as stupid so even if they were in here they woudnt ask

[frosty mango]

And then you gotta figure they gotta know how to use it, then find the invite, then get on the server, then figure out how to get to the right channel (because half the time you gotta click roles and wierd shit)

[jagged pier]

they go to website they get what top ppl are playing which must work in the content they do

which technically is correct

[frosty mango]

Then after all of that they finally get it and they don’t wanna ask a question

There’s prob a bunch of lurkers in here who have never even posted

[solid sun]

Well I know about that

But you can soak up a ton of info without even asking a question

[jagged pier]

that means having discord open

[solid sun]

Hell I’ve probably helped countless lost souls with all the stupid questions I’ve asked just by myself

[jagged pier]

and actively reading it all the time

so wade through the off topic stuff

its not worth most ppls time

[round pendant]

I mean

You can assume the top 100 players have already done the thinking for you

so just copy them and you'll do better than winging it yourself for sure

but it's not better than actually spending the time to learn why they're making those decisions

or how to make your own decisions

but some people (most people) don't want to bother with that

[solid sun]

If you’re gonna do something, you might as well do it right

As my grand pappy would always say

But idk, to push back a little on the thinking for you aspect

When I ask a question here everyone else has already done or will do the thinking for me

I just had to ask the question

[round pendant]

well yeah that's how knowledge works

for anything with nuance tho people will usually ask for context like why you're asking, what your goals are, etc

which makes you think about the reasoning too

[cold spindle]

Hey guys, what's the spell reflect weakaura? I only see the one from dragonflight. Still using that?

[round pendant]

I use the spreadsheet (in pins) and then if there's particularly important reflects I'll add a sound effect on bw/dbm for those spells

I don't know anyone who uses a reflect wa

[inner belfry]

https://wago.io/pjl-p3su9

[round pendant]

oh that basically does what I do manually

[cold spindle]

Thanks!

[round pendant]

[cold spindle]

My brain doesn't have that kind of processor lmao

We running windows 95 up in here

[solid sun]

Open Sense’s spreadsheet, place it on second monitor

[round pendant]

windows 95

https://tenor.com/view/homelander-homelander-the-boys-homelander-sad-homelander-its-peak-homelander-peak-gif-14542009839452529163

[solid sun]

Become a superhero

[frosty mango]

Or just use the weakaura that has the spreadsheet loaded into it

[inner belfry]

Another discussion of what's easier

[solid sun]

Nimchip would be disappointed in me

Gotta make pop pop proud

[frosty mango]

Better yet put the spreadsheet directly over your screen

[inner belfry]

But the weak aura doesn't tell you to use spell reflect for the spell damage reduction part of it, so you still need to use the spreadsheet

[frosty mango]

It’s got a low enough cd that you don’t really need to

Just send it

[warm plinth]

If I had to pick the one thing about prot warrior that people vastly overcomplicate, it would be spell reflection

[round pendant]

I need to use spell block more

[warm plinth]

Is it magic? Just press the button.

[round pendant]

[frosty mango]

It hurts me watching warriors taking electrocrush to the face with no reflect

[dusky canopy]

Is there way too much shit happening on the screen? Press the button

Works every time

[frosty mango]

Ngl this is my strategy

[warm plinth]

Exactly. And sometimes you get that satisfying whipshh sound

[frosty mango]

It’s a 20s cooldown if I know there’s nothin to reflect in a pack I’m just sending it

[warm plinth]

Or however you describe it

[frosty mango]

I prefer “wapish”

[warm plinth]

I'll allow it

[tacit gorge]

hey, i got Bomb suit on heroic in my vault, should i pick it or pick socket for myth belt? i have tome/pacemaker hero track and scrapfield myth

otherwise i would pick socket for belt

[gloomy trail]

For me its kszkszz

[warm plinth]

I see now why you're called a menace

[frosty mango]

IMO bombsuit as belts will be replaced soon

[warm plinth]

Plus you can get a socket any week

It's not a chance drop

[frosty mango]

Has anyone had floodgate bug where everyone disappears

My 15 got bricked last night near big momma, we pulled the trash near the stairs and then all the kelp guys teleported to us, the boss teleported to us, then everything disappeared (character models, boss and npc models)

I’ve had the disappearing thing multiple times but never had random trash from the other side of the instance pull

[round pendant]

yeah

I mentioned it the other day

2 times in row when pulling big momma everything disappeared

[ocean smelt]

Well

if they are all gone you won the key

:logic:

[frosty mango]

That only counts if invisible momma is not beating your ass

[unborn island]

Bombsuit, it's amazing.

[unborn island]

What specific area makes this happen?

[frosty mango]

Always as you approach big momma, left side up stairs near wind up guys

I’ve had it happen while pulling the boss and while not pulling the boss

But when it happens she always engages

[shut summit]

it's because of a change to prevent people from standing on the ledge to fight her, anything "outside" the boss area gets phased

but was done half assed so some areas have it happen that prolly shouldn't

idk about aggroing the kelps though

[round pendant]

I actually managed to do somewhat decent dps as arms (only a +10 tho)

I'm slowly figuring it out

[frosty mango]

Cleave harder

That’s not bad tho

As key level goes up so will your dps

[round pendant]

we kinda did giga pulls since it's just a 10

I did a lot wrong still prob

[frosty mango]

Lower keys mobs don’t live long enough to get a full sweep so you lose collateral damage beefy cleave

[round pendant]

and yeah the paladin in the group was yoinking all my dps

that's my cope

[round pendant]

I need to figure out how to consistently get the 15 collat + warbreaker moments

I pressed cleave at some point and hit like 50m

it was so good

[frosty mango]

I just track collat and if a pack is about to die I don’t press cleave

Feels counter intuitive but seems to work

Critcake says so

Prot so much easier just revenge zug

[round pendant]

I feel like you kinda need the warbreaker for the big collats to feel good

[frosty mango]

I only begrudgingly spec dps for keys

[round pendant]

so I feel like if it's not up real early on the next pack it's still just better to send it?

[frosty mango]

So if I can do 4m I’m happy

Go ping Critcake in the arms channel his arms brain is massive lol

[main jasper]

anyone have a macro to swap between def/battle stance? like if one is active then trigger the other

[round pendant]

/cast [stance:2]!Defensive Stance;!Battle Stance

[main jasper]

yuge

thanks

[round pendant]

it is done

[solid sun]

Is it just an achievement or does it come with something

Like a title or smth

[round pendant]

gives you a title

<name> the Triple Threat

[toxic pewter]

dang

that a cool title

[frosty mango]

Ayy

Got mine too

[round pendant]

would have had it sooner but had to gear up my healer

[solid sun]

I might give it a whirl

Arms and Resto shaman

[round pendant]

ezpz

[frosty mango]

Play monk

For 10s it’s basically just melee dps

[solid sun]

I hate mw

Will never play it

I’d play holy priest first

Prevoker is the worst though

I’d play mw before I’d ever touch prevoker

[frosty mango]

I feel like this is only bc you haven’t played holy in harder keys

Anyone who has would rather scrape their eyeballs out with a spoon

[solid sun]

I’m judging them all by the healers I’ve been subjected to playing with. Usually if someone is playing holy priest in keys rn they’re pretty good at it

[frosty mango]

There’s a few weird masochists out there

But you’re right there are some poopy mistweavers

[solid sun]

Most of my good experiences have been with Resto shaman and disc priest

But not purple disc priest

Purple disc priests always seem mad and people die

[frosty mango]

A lot of mistweavers don’t really grasp that the key spec is truly fistweaving

Like you’re not casting basically ever unless it’s to cover a proc, and 99% of the time just hammering your dps rotation with ancient teachings is gonna be way more hps

They’re always like spamming vivify and shit

[solid sun]

Yeah

I think the only thing I dislike about Resto shaman is that they’re always needing to drink

[coarse latch]

It's a topic of concern in the resto sham discord lol

Also play farseer

No mana issues

No body plays it though because it's harder than totemic

[warm plinth]

The heck is purple disc priest

[solid sun]

The one that shoots out purple nebulas and purple ray beams

It’s like what shadow priests play when they can’t get into keys

[frosty mango]

It’s the bad spec

Voidweaver lol

Oracle is basically easy button healing

[frosty mango]

That’s only because Druids are bad at innervating

If your Druid has even 10% brain cell and knows when to innervate your shaman will never have mana issues

That also requires you to have a Druid

[unborn island]

Thanks, was asking because I had heard it was a corner and had seen Sense videos of tanking it in a corner, wasn't sure if that would be an issue.

He uses the other end of the arena though, so should be all good.

[sharp merlin]

Is mountain thane dmg catching up to colossus?

[frosty mango]

For aoe, no

[iron oracle]

when is the best time to get rid of circlet?

[nocturne spindle]

when something else you have sims higher

probably 670 ish if i had to guess

[solid sun]

Hey @frosty mango when you move to the mountains how are you gonna get sushi

You gonna find some mountains with a lake and try to catch something out there and do some country backwoods sushi

[round pendant]

not my friend

he hates holy priest in m+ but refuses to play disc

I keep telling him disc is better AND easier

[craggy mural]

Void ritual actually simming lowest? :o

[short mist]

Change your sim length and target count and it will change

[craggy mural]

5 targets, 1,5min and Tdev is highest

[frosty mango]

I’m sure in 7 years they’ll be able to drone sushi in

[frosty mango]

He’ll learn

If he hates himself enough to play holy and he does ok with it let him send it lol

[round pendant]

It's been 10 years

[frosty mango]

ok maybe you'll learn

lol

[mighty valley]

that's how one tricks are, they skate or die by the meta

although there's two kinds of one tricks

"i'm gonna take pride in how far i can take this underpowered spec" vs. "i'm just gonna complain the whole time"

[round pendant]

he's more like

"I like holy I've played it for years"

and then complaining that m+ is too hard

and I keep telling him he's playing on hard mode

his spec is literally dogshit for the content we're doing lmao

sure it's not a dealbreaker in these keys but he'd have a less stressful time if he just went disc

😔

[gloomy trail]

But...he likes it

[round pendant]

yes

[solid sun]

They actually don't, though

They're attributing to m+ what is actually a holy priest problem

[round pendant]

see the part where I replied to Roidberg saying people would rather scrap their eyeballs out with a spoon than play Holy

[round pendant]

this is also true

[solid sun]

They might like holy priest just fine in raid

But they clearly don't in m+. :( I wish them a speedy journey to enlightenment

[midnight berry]

quick question, which crafted weapon should I get? (sword mace or axe)

[round pendant]

Whichever one you think looks the coolest

(there's no functional difference)

[solid sun]

Axe

It is the coolest one

[midnight berry]

aight, ty

[mighty valley]

idk, holy priest has been fine for keys before and it will be again

i wouldn't enjoy people telling me to just switch to a different tank, even in shadowlands

[solid sun]

I'm not really a healer, but from my understanding Holy Priest just isn't really designed to handle what's required in m+

If that's true, my take would be that the issue isn't with m+ but instead with how holy priest functions.

[round pendant]

I don't tell him to switch, but when he complains about M+ in general when it's all basically difficulties caused by his shit spec

I do tell him it'd be easier as disc

[coarse latch]

very fitting the garbage trinke is named garbage

sadge i got it

[vocal cave]

Zee thug Hotline is simbait right?

[mighty valley]

Holy Priest has been the m+ pick in ages past so it's not like there's some rot at the heart of the spec... it hasn't really benefited from hero talents as well as disc has though

idk, it's solvable, and i don't blame anyone for just preferring the holy playstyle, it's the most "standard healer"

they should just make it... better

[undone beacon]

the boss in the Drag on 8-mask fuckin sux

[frosty mango]

When in ages past has it been the pick

I’m struggling to remember

The issue for holy is core to the spec itself - it’s mastery does not align with the m+ damage profile so you’re basically playing half a spec

And yeah I agree they could absolutely fix it

[frosty mango]

It’s ok in raid when fight times are very low

Otherwise it’s kinda poo

[frosty mango]

Not as bad as this though

[mighty valley]

pretty far back lol, but i pulled up SL s3 and it was like 400 points ahead of disc

other specs with trash mastery stats have had time in the sun

[frosty mango]

Ok so like half a decade ago

[frosty mango]

Feel like Hpriest is really the only one that is completely nonfunctional

It’s shit if you stack it, it’s shit if you don’t

[mighty valley]

outlaw avoids mastery like the plague, feels like it gets worse for them every expansion

[frosty mango]

Yeah but they aren’t a healer, they still have a completely functional kit to do what their intended purpose is - doing damage

[mighty valley]

I did say in ages past

[frosty mango]

Fair

[mighty valley]

but even in recent history the gap hasn't been AS bad as it is now

[frosty mango]

Hpriest is balanced around half or more of your healing being a ticking hot which is like the worst type of healing for m+

Like they could fix Hpriest by just adding a mechanic that changed your mastery to be direct healing buff or faster ticking during apotheosis

It would instantly make them a zillion times better

[candid cove]

Saw on wowhead that the dastardly banner toy taunts the mobs to you.

https://www.wowhead.com/item=239007/dastardly-banner

wonder how far that range is.

[mighty valley]

Might only work in that game mode

[coarse latch]

Thankfully I got hoc and lock n stalk

[nocturne spindle]

oh yea

how do thing where the WA shows you when the buff of teh ability is active

[upbeat vortex]

i gotta offspec tank some 10s with guildies, can anyone give me the most barebones run down for most dmg? Shield slam -> revenge spam and keep up shield block? spam the other CDs on CD

[gloomy trail]

Just make some holy spells, maybe holy words explode mastery hot on targets doing full value instantly. Choose me for next balancing, reworking, community responsible boss

[gloomy trail]

Clap once for bleed or smth

[upbeat vortex]

seems simple enough 🫡

[chilly brook]

you're definitely clapping more than just once

it's just a lower prio

[inner belfry]

clap for aggro

[gloomy trail]

It was small ironic help, i shouldve said ,,at least''

[frosty mango]

I specced thane and kept clapping but nothing happened

[gloomy trail]

No no

I can hear u clapping

[frosty mango]

Yes exactly

[gloomy trail]

Thats some huge claps mate

[frosty mango]

My wife asked what I was doing and I told her I was following the guide

[gloomy trail]

I mean, she dont understand warriors life

You shouldnt tell anyone about clapping

Do it with all your heart and rage

@frosty mango what u think about my hpriest idea? Im depressed and need aproval

[mighty valley]

the only other thing is press IP when rage is high to avoid overcapping

[frosty mango]

I dunno holy already has a shitload of buttons

I’m really for any changes they make

Echo of light is grossly op in raid now that they buffed poh

[gloomy trail]

But it didnt add any buttons

[paper crypt]

They should give priests a talent that lets them give an extra PI to warriors for free

[gloomy trail]

Just explode with existing hwords, serenity and such

[paper crypt]

Warrior deserves to have its time in a god comp

[frosty mango]

Real

Next season will be interesting

Prot and bear are going to be basically unkillable with current scaling trajectory

[paper crypt]

Prot is already kinda unkillable

[frosty mango]

And prot will be doing an inordinate amount of dps due to crit levels imo

[paper crypt]

Prot already does the most DPS

[gloomy trail]

Warriors need bladestorm works like breath from dk, but no cooldown. Pool rage and spend on bladestorm untill it deplete xDDD

[frosty mango]

Yes and as we start to hit Dr caps on stats we’ll be getting more value from mastery which is just gonna increase the value of crit

With so much of our damage loaded into demolish crits have a big impact

I’m reasonably sure blizz will make adjustments im just interested to see which knobs they turn

[gloomy trail]

I roleplay my undead, everytime he demolish, his hands are broken cuz no milk and u know, flesh. Then i need a dk to give me hands back

[slender bison]

They really need to update/remove some of the garbage talents. Bloodborne, Intervene, Honed Reflex, Second Wind etc. Wanted to drop crackling but I literally have nowhere to put it. They are all trash

[gloomy trail]

What iv heard intervene is alright with hero talent

[round pendant]

god when ravager's up do I just spam revenge and ignore ss?

[gloomy trail]

Second wind for prot should be higher treshold

[round pendant]

that's what I've been doing but it feels so wrong

especially since I STILL need to work on pressing SS more

[slender bison]

Nah, garbage. All mobs have next to zero white damage attacks.

Intervene is only ok at Waxbeard in case a clothie fails to run from mobs

[gloomy trail]

But hero talent gives shield !

On vene

[slender bison]

400k shield

[gloomy trail]

Okay its that bad

I mean im not even talented into it

What am i, a healer to help others

[round cliff]

intervene is a mobility tool and nothing else

[round pendant]

400k? how much was it in s1? lmao

[round cliff]

think about it as such

a mobility tool on the mobility tank

zzzzz

[round pendant]

Yeah but also if you're using intervene to move you probably fucked up

lmao

it's good for those situations tho

[slender bison]

I went with Wrecking Throw instead of Crackling. Solid 1.3M dps... Every 45s

[gloomy trail]

Intervene clutch machine

[slender bison]

Good Vs last boss Rookery

[round cliff]

o shit i SHOULD take it for last boss rookery

[round pendant]

is it that big of a diff?

it costs 2 points

[round cliff]

worth

[round pendant]

I haven't used it since s1 df

[slender bison]

Cringe Reflexes is bad

But not as bad as Rally

Or quick footwork

[gloomy trail]

Rally is funny actually

[slender bison]

Or cruel strikes

[gloomy trail]

Press spell , do nothing

[slender bison]

Cringing Cry - you want to help your team but the hp bars don't move

[gloomy trail]

Again, what am i to help others. No point into that shit

[slender bison]

Crackling is good only in M4 when you're learning to tank

So wrecking throw is the new king

6 million damage to Rookery boss? Yes please

And Priory X2 bosses

[round pendant]

I saved 2 people with rally today

so

I like it

[slender bison]

Healer issue

[round pendant]

yeah but I can't control other people

[slender bison]

Cringe Cry is good only in Raids due the way it scales

[round pendant]

I can save the situation sometimes and that feels fun!

[slender bison]

Then roll a healer

[round pendant]

if I played with a 5man I wouldn't take it tho

[slender bison]

I threw a Shattering Throw axe at a goblin and it died. Feeling like a warrior actually

[gloomy trail]

What true warrior throw their axe, shame

Axe is your wife

[paper crypt]

kekw

[round pendant]

it should be 5000%

[slender bison]

Based spell icon too

Wrecking Throw vs Cringe Cry vs Crackling Blunder

[paper crypt]

Odyn's fury

[slender bison]

Easy pick

For my warr it does 1.2M damage umbuffed

[paper crypt]

So the same as a bad execute?

[idle copper]

I know you want maximum amount of shield block up time but do you need it up at the same time as shield wall?

[mighty valley]

Yeah

Just try and keep sb up at all times you're taking damage and don't think harder than that

(and as much of the rest of the time as you can, it increases SS damage)

[idle copper]

👍

[vocal cave]

hold demolish to line up with demo and HoC and ignore cd reduction or fire and forget?

[mighty valley]

don't wait too long, a few secs for avatar or whatever is ok but wasting too much cdr is bad

[pallid quiver]

In almost all situations, send on CD, si-

yeah that

You get tons of CDR, and you also get a damage done buff to enemies hit by demolish, as well,

So it's not the worst to have it not always line up

This can obviously depend on content/target profile needs, like if a pack of adds are popping in like 5 seconds, probably worth to hold

Or if there's a massive damage amp coming in or something that won't last for another demo to come up

[coarse latch]

scrapfield 9001 vs lock n stalk what is everyones opinion? they are right next to eachother on wowhead guide

[pallid quiver]

Honestly, probably neither with Dinars being a thing

If it's a vault choice, it might actually be a socket angle

[coarse latch]

im gearing my prot i leveled a weekish ago so im only 650 i got hoc with my dinar bc i probably wont be raiding

[pallid quiver]

Even then, Pacemaker and Tome both come from dungeons and are probably better trinkets

[coarse latch]

ohh thats good to know

thank you!

[pallid quiver]

If you want a defensive trinket choice, Bombsuit is better, with Mud also being better when its niche kicks in

[coarse latch]

i am pretty much doing only 4s rn until i do every dungeon to get comfy with the routes and tanking still

but eventually i will do 10+

[pallid quiver]

(For Mud, it's notably stronger in places like Floodgate, where you almost always have a dot on you, and Priory, where it helps with first boss)

Yeah, if you're 650, you've got enough gear to comfortably go through +10s, so I wouldn't stress over it that much

Could even save future dinar purchases for a mythic track tome/pacemaker when you clear high enough keys to unlock those

[coarse latch]

ohh thats good to know

i think its mostly just tank anxiety still 😛

[coarse latch]

will probably do that

[onyx pawn]

The tanxiety is real

[pallid quiver]

Yeah, people who are struggling in +6s at this point of the season also are not likely to help with that

Since they're generally stuck there due to mindset and often lash out at other players.

If it helps, know that your performance is fine as long as you keep aggro, press a major defensive before scary damage comes in (start of a big pull, before a boss tank hitting ability, etc), and press your main mitigation button (Shield Block)

You don't even need to optimize those particularly well, either, to clear any kind of content that gives rewards

It only really demands a lot from you when pushing high keys, and you still don't need to play perfect then.

[coarse latch]

ohh thats good to know. i have been making sure i keep shield block up as much as possible and doing the collosus rotation like always shield bashing when its goes off cd etc

and yeah shield wall i have made sure to use before pulls

like first pull of dungeons etc

[coarse latch]

yeah :/

i have pretty much said im new to everyone and they have been really nice so far

but still i really enjoy tanking, and its also fun to play a tank that does damage too

[coarse latch]

i also have quaziis plater so i have the aggro down too

[nocturne spindle]

i should brain off and do more keys in work calls apparently

also send help weekly keys are pain

[coarse latch]

Got damn

Amazing

It also makes me happy to see survival

[frosty mango]

which key is this

4.1b makes me feel like this is like rookery

[nocturne spindle]

just a cinderbrew

[round pendant]

I don't even know what kind of mindset you'd need to be stuck in 6s

they're so free

literally don't say anything and just waddle along and you'll do all 6s np

[pallid quiver]

A mindset that's so preoccupied with others, insecurity, and paranoia that you just have cognitive dissonance so strong that it impedes your ability to reason. It's fine to find 6s and the like a hurdle

but getting hard stuck when actually trying to learn is a rarity

[round pendant]

I think my idea for a slightly reworked m+ would solve a lot of anxiety in low pugs

(it's mainly just deleting depletes)

[mortal heart]

running my own key removes the anxiety for me

because I know I'm only hurting myself if we don't time it

[pallid quiver]

I personally think there should be a Tribunal of sorts, where if you go off as the crazy person you have to be to stalk someone over seven characters because they pulled one mob they didn't like, you just get sent to perma-real life jail

it'd remove a lot of the more toxic parts of the player base, reducing a lot of the sources of anxiety

[round pendant]

most peoples' anxiety is just fear of facing failure tbh

(which is natural)

or they've read too much reddit and believe every single pug group is full of toxicity

[pallid quiver]

tbf it's pretty easy for every pug group i get into to be full of toxicity

but that's also because I am slacker supreme

I don't think I usually even do above like, 50 keys per season, let alone like 100s+

I think one season in some timeframe I only did like 8 dungeons

[round pendant]

I've played this season the most out of any

usually I just do the bare minimum to get the rewards

but been playing lots of alts and playing with more friends this time around

very very few instances of toxicity

but I think I might be lucky

[solid sun]

You've been playing with more friends

Of course there's fewer instances of toxicity

Silly goose

[round pendant]

It's mostly still duos (which I've always done)

I rarely solo

also I've had like very few instances of toxicity since S1 df lol

[near salmon]

Out of all TWW dungeons, I encountered the worst toxicity as a tank in season 1 Dawnbreaker

[paper crypt]

Pot duo gilded delves?

[near salmon]

no matter how i pulled, there is some one who would get mad at me

[round pendant]

I'm not saying I don't get toxicity

just a small minority

I did notice a lot of shittalking in dawnbreaker too tbh

[near salmon]

i even prefered City of thread over Dawnbreaker

[round pendant]

[solid sun]

I notice probably more complaining than outright toxicity

[jagged gust]

I noticed a lot of people dying to the 3rd mini boss

[near salmon]

the mini boss with flying orbs in dawnbreaker?

[jagged gust]

yeah the frontal puddle orb

[near salmon]

was it simply bugged or something? It always exploded no matter how careful people bait it

[pallid quiver]

It'd always blow up eventually

[jagged gust]

oh it wasn't even baiting, most people just never seemed to realize the puddle extended behind her

[pallid quiver]

wait

we're talking dawnbreaker with the orbs that blew up with less distance, ye?

[near salmon]

yea

[pallid quiver]

So farther it went, less damage

Yeah, it'd always explode eventually

You just wanted it to travel as far as reasonable

[near salmon]

i see now

[jagged gust]

yeah reasonable is the key phrase

[pallid quiver]

somehow, people would still consider it a tank issue

somehow

even though it fixates and shoots in the direction of the DPS/Healer it's targetted on

[jagged gust]

shoulda intervened, that 500k shield was the diff

[near salmon]

I think this is the part of that dungeon where a lot of "toxicity" came from. Someone always died to orb explosion. I had 1 healer who kept arguing with me saying I shouldn't tank the mini boss in the tight corridor outside the inn. But i was like really? where were we supposed to fight it then? the whole market place near the 2nd boss is packed with a lot of extra mobs.

[outer willow]

Before that pull, I had a macro that I’d press.

“Balls, down halls, no walls.”

Eventually it really did start helping.

[frosty mango]

timed by .0001

not even close

[frosty mango]

I just go with shame

At the start of the key I’d say something like “if you point the ball into a wall or a post or anything and it blows up and we die, we’re going to laugh at you for being bad”

[jagged gust]

Just imagine all pugs are bots, can't get mad at an npc

[coarse latch]

very true lmao

so far i have just been like "mb" if anything happens and people are always like "ahh you good tank", probably wont always be like that but it seems to help

[solid sun]

I blame everyone else for my mistakes

The Dota 2 way

[mighty valley]

i think you’ll be surprised as you climb to higher keys — your job gets easier as the players get better

there are definitely breakpoints where you get weirdly sweaty players who demand a specific route with specific skips that you really don’t need to succeed

but for the most part people are happy to just get through their weekly keys

[coarse latch]

league was all the rage in my middle school way back whebn and i remember going home so excited to play, i got on my first match where i didnt know anything and immediatley was called a bunch of slurs lmao - then i uninstalled

[coarse latch]

yeah youre totally right, ive def experienced that as a healer as well - people actually know mechanics and what to do

[stark grail]

Hey yall, thinking about prot warrior as an alt and was hoping to find some more insight on the weaknesses of it in high end m+ (like prolly 17-18s) before I even begin gearing/learning everything. Pretty vague question so I apologize in advance if that sounds silly

[mighty valley]

Dailcry in priory is pretty brutal for us

Uhhh… people won’t invite the non meta tank

We don’t have the greatest mob gathering tools but that’s fine if people play around you

[jagged gust]

yeah this is pretty much the main issue

[stark grail]

For context, i play mage so i guess what im wondering is can prot warrior do pulls as what veng can do? do they gather well?

I see plenty of phys grps usually in queue but since i do play mage not sure if they do different routes from what ive seen, if you guys know some prot wars that stream high end m+ i would appreciate it

[jagged gust]

ranged pulling casters is a definite weakness, but having a dk solves that in most cases

[mighty valley]

Sense from Nurfed posts most of his runs on youtube, they’re in the 18+ range

[jagged gust]

mekes is streaming prot rn i think

[stark grail]

Appreciate it, ill take a look! Thanks

[pallid quiver]

LoS is generally how you solve most gather issues as Prot War/non-gather skilled tanks

Clumps everything and gives a clear indication for DPS as to when they can get blasting

[warm plinth]

I just learn herbalism and mining

ez gathering

[paper crypt]

Prot warrior pulls by charging up to packs and thunder blasting them mainly, but we have a couple ranged abilities

[solid sun]

That’s funny

I don’t thunder blast any packs

:)

[wooden dove]

Annihilator Lak'hal and the stun swarmites before rexxar are wrecking me with 8 masks

[solid sun]

That area was rough for me too. Also the hulk keeps tossing me. One time I was able to not get tossed for sanity damage at all but other times it happens. Unsure how to avoid

[frosty mango]

Imo biggest weaknesses are gather ability (have no 360 aoe so you have to be aware of your directionality so you’re not getting nailed in the back)

And any mob/pack with rot damage like dailcry or big momma

Mm hunter majorly helps our gather capability with misdirect and pairing with an rsham or monk does a lot to help with bleeds/rot

I prefer monk because they bring phys and cocoon is great against bleeds/rot

Phys comp stack is a highly capable group (pwar/mm hunter/enh sham/feral Druid/me monk) but does take some adjusting

[warm plinth]

Can you put dawnthread lining on a shield

[wooden dove]

yes

[warm plinth]

I'm big kid \o/ ty @wooden dove

[coarse latch]

nice! im almost one

[pallid quiver]

he's a big kid now

[tribal wharf]

at long last i can attempt uber diablo/baal in d2r

[round cliff]

which addon gives you the "obtained after X attempts" popup achievement-style

is it ATT or rarity

[coarse latch]

if you dont get an answer i have a strong suspision the wow secrets discord would know

https://discord.gg/wowsecrets

i have no idea though lol

[round cliff]

yea im in there ill check

good call

[warm plinth]

Rarity

[coarse latch]

do you all think like ~645 is high enough to get 5 mask or should i do it on my 670 bear lol

[prime sphinx]

5 mask last week like 670, 8 mask this week like 640 probs easily enough

[coarse latch]

nice!

[compact flax]

does the disrupting shout talent silence enemies if used on them when they're not casting any spells?

[grim pilot]

No

[frosty mango]

There’s only two true silences

Silence and solar beam, as far as i know

I think sigil of silence may work?

[slender bison]

Any ideas when S3 should start? July?

Next week it's like 3 months of S2

[jagged gust]

Late July/Early August i think?

still one more patch to go

[slender bison]

Damn

[mighty valley]

yeah, sigil of silence is true silence

it would be fucked up if it wasn't

[jagged gust]

I mean an aoe kick with a 30y range still sounds kinda good

[mighty valley]

i just think it would be a design crime to put "silence" in the name of something that didn't actually silence

[frosty mango]

sigil of disruption

[echo egret]

Voidcrazed hulk and -150 sanity every throw... how ?

[jagged pier]

just kill it before the throw

[echo egret]

yeah right

I take at least two, if not three...

[jagged pier]

i dunno save all your cds and he dies very fast

hitting him with a 10 stack avatar demo shouted demolish into SC pretty much kills him

[echo egret]

I see, but it feels like quite some planning ahead

[jagged pier]

right but not really u know hes coming

so u just sit on stuff

theres 0 need to try and go fast and rush now with gamon showing up all the time

so u dont need to mega pull or use cds on cd

u use cds around having them up for problem mobs

the boss after the throw guy does fuck all u dont need cds for it

[echo egret]

I also noted a bug : open Valley of Spirits, open Valley of Wisdom, then clear Valley of Spirits. Everything killed will count to make the Wisdom boss show up. with multitudes, you won't need that hulk miniboss.

[slender bison]

Any reliable strat for IPA boss to spawn adds somewhere specifically? We were melee and one spawned right under boss hitbox which lead to insta kaboom

[fallen lichen]

Don’t tank him too close to sides or that can happen

[slender bison]

Nah, was actually mid room, it's just bad luck

I know range can bait the circles, but that's about it

[fallen lichen]

Never seen that when not on side, usually they spawn far enough. If one spawns relatively close, I stormbolt or haymaker and run.

[slender bison]

Same, but this was literally under boss hitbox. Anyways

[fallen lichen]

Yea that can brick the key hard I guess. Not much you can do really then, there’s a slight delay when they start moving, but the boss is usually channeling then. Pray for some classes with better cc to handle quick.

[chilly brook]

I’ve had one spawn under boss but it didn’t instantly blow

Maybe it was a hair enough away

But I also saw it was spawning there and moved out of melee range so the boss would move to me as soon as the channel was over

[unborn island]

I can usually get 2 to spawn on the pile, but because they spawn on a triangle there's always going to be one awkward one

Never had one spawn under unless I was tanking him on a wall in the early days

Was it a pug so they flamed you or did they just say gg

[knotty idol]

Anyone else encounter Mug Zee randomly using golden knuckles after taunt swapping? Last night other tank took the knuckle and was dropping the gold then suddenly I got slapped by golden knuckle for 17M with no animation

[jagged pier]

u taunt after the cast not during

[knotty idol]

Yeah like I said other tank had already been hit by the frontal and was dropping gold, I got hit around 5 seconds later

[jagged pier]

[knotty idol]

Super weird, was hoping it would be a well known bug but I guess not lol

[next pasture]

any video of the cheese strat for dailcry where you los on the stairs or something?

[warm kernel]

Just post a log and people will figure it out

[solid sun]

Hey @jagged pier is there a way to avoid getting thrown by the hulk guy (heroic visions)

I think it’s like 150 sanity per toss

[jagged pier]

kill him before he throws u

[patent scroll]

Iirc there were some weird los/pathing/outrange things you could do

But the best way is to just kill it

[sharp gale]

another note, you are allowed to use orbs during the fight

[wispy moth]

But you gained only hafl sanity and the cast suffer the bounce back!

[echo egret]

They stealth-hotifxed the zone this morning : you can't get % in the previous zone, and if you have multitude mask, the % is modified accordingly. You cannot skip that miniboss anymore.

[solid sun]

Huh

[sharp gale]

yeah but you have 3 orbs

when you arrive at thrall you should still have your 3 orbs, so use them freely

[wispy moth]

In orgrimmar yeah, pretty easy and fast run

[warm plinth]

Yes. But it's not going to be simple to do this week because of split personality.

[sick grotto]

whats a good tome of devotion weak aura to use?

[quiet pagoda]

Is there any good instruction clips for gathering multiple packs in m+?

I feel like I am very slow in the grab and gathering and then hold aggro when there are 3+ packs to combine.

With heroic throw just hitting 1 mob, and clap having a cd I usually lose aggro on a few random mobs

[round pendant]

ravager and thunderous roar are good af for gathering

[sick grotto]

shield charge as well

[round pendant]

The way I generally do it is just kinda yolo but

[frosty mango]

Using the workshop first pull as an example

[round pendant]

shield charge first pack + tclap
leap to some other pack (prob furthest one), press whatever (revenge?)
ravager some random other pack if it's out of the way
charge to fourth pack, might press troar if I'm feeling cute

[frosty mango]

Ravager the back right pack, leap over first to second pack and charge - clap.

Charge back to first pack and revenge

Shield charge last pack

Roar as they gather and clap again

As you’re doing this face yourself so you are in front and revenging them

You can heroic throw stragglers

At the end of the day if dps are going in while you gather they will die and this is true of every tank

Ret paladins in particular are notorious for being smooth brains and getting themselves killed

[round pendant]

my workshop first pull is scuffed af

I simply charge counter clockwise and ravager the last pack

lmao

and then get behind them so they all gather on that last pack

[cerulean tusk]

I just run into the middle heroic throwing right, body left and taunt front ravager spinning the middle

[round pendant]

middle is death zone tho isn't it?

cause of the blades

[sick grotto]

disrupting shout is so good on that pull

[round pendant]

and mages/boomies just ripping aggro and then running around like headless chickens cause they couldn't wait for the gather

[frosty mango]

Only if you stand there when the blades come

I usually pull the entire pack to the outside of the ring because the squares are wider

Don’t need to run all around dodging saws

[round pendant]

yeah same

that's why I like to end on the back side of one of the packs relative to the middle

uh

phrasing

[frosty mango]

Honestly I just bring an mm hunter to every key over 15

[sinful copper]

Mages should learn to press mirror images

[frosty mango]

There’s enough of them and they pair well with shaman/mw

Which I try to bring

[round pendant]

yeah mm makes gathering nice and comfy

[frosty mango]

Disc priests always letting warriors die

[round pendant]

I like sending my friend who rerolled to mm to go grab shit for me

I think the most annoying gather this season is first pull of floodgate tbh

[quiet pagoda]

Thanks for the reply!

And yeah mm is great. Good to know early poppers are just a ‘their issue’ thing 😉

[sinful copper]

On first pull u throw ravager to pull a group? I usually save for the 3rd or 4th group so it hits everything coming in too

[quiet pagoda]

But is it not a waste to pull with ravager as the pack runs out of it so quick towards you?

[sinful copper]

That's what I'm saying

[frosty mango]

Yes because dps are idiots and I’d rather waste my dps than them die

[sinful copper]

Lolol true

[quiet pagoda]

🧐 sounds like the awful truth

[frosty mango]

When I have an mm hunter I have them Md the back and right packs, I grab first and left and ravager all of them

[round pendant]

it depends how dumb your dps are yeah

[frosty mango]

And do 20m dps and then shame them for being bad

[round pendant]

when you have smoothbrains who think "oh the mob has moved that means the tank has established aggro"

you gotta lock it in from the get go

or someone's dying

[cerulean tusk]

Boiii is that too true

[frosty mango]

I’ve really just accepted that some dps are gonna be dumb and die

And live with it

[cerulean tusk]

Same, I also started to mock them for it

[frosty mango]

I don’t mock them I just say thanks for the invite

[cerulean tusk]

It works, as the other DPS join in on my side

[round pendant]

the amount of times I've said "stop pumping instantly" lately is like

5 times

it's frustrating af

[frosty mango]

Had people in dark flame last night I told them to Los the second pull around the wall

[sinful copper]

What CD does mud go down to with normal play?

[frosty mango]

I said it twice before the dungeon

They didn’t, they all died

Flamed me and said I was bad

[round pendant]

[frosty mango]

“Thanks for the invite”

[round pendant]

flashbacks to yesterday where I said to stay back in the first room

and 2 guys just follow me through the tunnel

[frosty mango]

2 mins in most dungeons, depending on boss or key it can get quite low

[round pendant]

I even pinged, man

[sinful copper]

I don't think anyone stays in first room anymore tbh

[frosty mango]

Priory/flood about 1

[round pendant]

idc

[cerulean tusk]

1 :40 ish? Hard to say really. I use it on mechanics and not on CD.

[frosty mango]

I do first pull down hall, disrupting shout the two wick guys and then do the first pack right there with lust

Then I go down the left side and grab everything and Los behind the wall at the end

[sinful copper]

It's already a 2 min. U mean it doesn't rly get much CDR in most dungeons?

[frosty mango]

Yes

[round pendant]

cancer

[frosty mango]

No dots = no cdr

[round pendant]

which streamer started doing that pull

[frosty mango]

Flood and priory have lots of dots so it gets a lot of extra use

[frosty mango]

None

[cerulean tusk]

Also only place ya really use mud

[frosty mango]

Streamers all do the pillar hump Los which I think is dumb

[sinful copper]

I do that pull with no skip. U go back and clear that whole room to skip the mini?

[round pendant]

it suddenly became a thing and when I'm dpsing I'd say 70% of my dfc's have been bricked when doing that

[frosty mango]

No I clear the room before candle boss

[round pendant]

pillar los is way more consistent

[sinful copper]

Ohhh

[frosty mango]

People are too dumb to pillar Los, too risky

[sinful copper]

That mini so inefficient tho

[frosty mango]

I don’t do it

I do left side plus room before candle boss, then entire last room before last boss and you hit 100

Barely

[sinful copper]

Oh u do the casters on left before the boss

[frosty mango]

Like 100.01

[sinful copper]

Wow nice

[frosty mango]

Yeah I just pull the entire room at once lol

[sinful copper]

What! Lol

All 3 big candles with the casters and double elemental casters? No shot

[frosty mango]

Disrupting makes the pack simple, the only thing that does damage is the aoe candle guys

[round pendant]

nah it's fine

[frosty mango]

And quenching doesn’t do much if you have no debuff

[sinful copper]

If people kick the elementals lo

[cerulean tusk]

You can also LoS the casts, so meh

[quiet pagoda]

I do that room but in 2, don’t feel comfortable enough for a biggy

[sinful copper]

Iunno I tried that whole room on a 17 and my DPS all died

[frosty mango]

That’s a them problem

lol

[round pendant]

it's a standard pull

[sinful copper]

Not even with the far left casters actually. Just the 3 big candles groups and first group on left

[round pendant]

if it fails it's not your fault lmao

[cerulean tusk]

Did you tank it so they could los?

[round pendant]

unless it's aggro

[sinful copper]

I don't know. I tanked in middle of room and walked slowly through the two gaps in train tracks

In a big circle

[frosty mango]

Yea but the mw just popped chiji so I don’t think it mattered

[cerulean tusk]

As long ppl can LoS things in DFC, roar, blast, casts... Then the packs are all very forgiving

Just gotta place em so melee got a chance to dip as well

[sinful copper]

So where do u tank it for LoS? I have to move out of bonks and big fire circle every 3 seconds or so

[cerulean tusk]

I use the big pillar and then circle around to the exit if needed

Usually the MM has killed the pack within 20-30 sec with procs

[frosty mango]

Hallway wall

[sinful copper]

The wall leading to boss room?

[frosty mango]

Yea

[sinful copper]

Ooo ok

[frosty mango]

Tbh it’s half dead by the time we get there

lol

[sinful copper]

Everyone 10m+ DPS by end of that pull?

[cerulean tusk]

Not the DPS warrior

[warm plinth]

You're a bonk

Gottem

[sinful copper]

I never ever invite DPS warriors lol. Literally no point. Don't need shout and their DPS always low

[cerulean tusk]

[quiet pagoda]

Did see some biggies around. But I usually have a feral/ret/rogue with me

[frosty mango]

I don’t really look

I’m really particular about the comps I take to enable my routes

I don’t really care about dps

For dfc I usually do mm/ret/lock/mw

[sinful copper]

In my 17, all 3 DPS were at 5.5m after like 25 seconds into pull and then they started dying. Maybe that's why we couldn't do that pull lol

[frosty mango]

Mm helps w gather plus burst, lock enables quick skip, ret is a second bres plus sac/wog util

Mistweaver can play jade bond chiji and vomit healing for candle boss or high damage event

[sinful copper]

Yeah makes sense

[frosty mango]

I didn’t do 17 yet, have it timed on a 15, 16 was on pace for +2 and half the gauntlet didn’t spawn so we were short trash and literally had no mobs to kill

[sinful copper]

So weird. Never had that bug

[frosty mango]

Has happened to me a bunch, usually when the cart goes left at every junction

The right side stuff just doesn’t spawn

I’m not really a streamer Strat/meta guy, I stay conventional but I will game comp for a key

Plus I hate boomies

Starfall just makes warrior life hard

[sinful copper]

True

[round cliff]

fuck warrior i play the fishing minigame now

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/365567473061462036/1377575651397210142/image.png?ex=683976cd&is=6838254d&hm=066ec61fcfed23d366e22bfc804b5c5ae6a9bf6049484ef2240861cba4a83c92& im gaming

[jagged pier]

i just play expedition 33 now

[round cliff]

im gonna play that after i finish doom

[jagged pier]

its a banger game

[round cliff]

ive heard

not as good as fishing in wow tho

[jagged pier]

so happy im just raid logging right now

[patent scroll]

Yep, need to continue and complete that once I get home as well

Got only to like midway Act 2?ish?

[warm plinth]

Make sure to go for the zereth mortis one next

[round cliff]

i got that one when it was current

[warm plinth]

Oh ok

[round cliff]

idk if there's any other fishing mounts other than sea turtle

[warm plinth]

Technically riding turtle also comes from fishing

[patent scroll]

Is the Legiondary fishing rod still available?

[warm plinth]

From same place as sea turtle

[round cliff]

yes but there's no point

[patent scroll]

Or rather does it still function like that

[round cliff]

kinda sorta

[patent scroll]

Or was the shark transformation and stuff tied to AP unlocks?

[round cliff]

that part doesn't work iirc?

the water walking does

[patent scroll]

[round cliff]

and the teleport does but we aren't in legion so who cares

[warm plinth]

Do you habe the sea ray mount from bfa

Have

[round cliff]

no idk which one

[warm plinth]

It's just from random fishing anywhere in kul'tiras or zuldazar

anywhere

[next mason]

There a solid guide for how to be a pumper as colossus?

[warm plinth]

Wowhead and icyveins are both good. Written by TCs here

[next mason]

👍

[echo egret]

Yeah so going full out, Voidcrazed Hulk took me 3 throws to kill = -450 sanity. Immensely dangerous.

[dusky canopy]

@lusty grotto

First night almost p2

Final pull of the night we made it to the last bomb before p2 but it didn’t finish in time because not enough people swapped to the technician

Tonight we see p2 for sure

[tender zealot]

You need to save cds, pot maybe drums to make it easier and less sanity loss. Rexxar wing with the stuns is far more scary tbh

[frosty mango]

I wrote a Dailcry response can you guys vet it

I’m tired of typing it three times a day so I just wanna copy/paste

How Do I Deal With Dailcry
A protection warrior essay.

Dailcry (PSF) can be a tough encounter for warriors due to the dots they apply being their primary tank mechanic. Warriors struggle with this type of damage due to our primary defensive layer, block, being ineffective against it.

Strategies/Info for dealing with Dailcry:

• The primary danger is a combination of his Pierce skill, potentially coupled with the Divine Judgement debuff the miniboss puts on you.
• Pierce is a combination tank buster/bleed. It has an initial physical hit followed by a ticking bleed.
• Warrior has four primary defensives to handle Pierce. Rotate your shield walls for the first three Pierce casts. Start with Avatar to get your initial shield wall up for the first Pierce. Follow on with your two shield wall charges for the next two pierces.
• For the fourth pierce, you can layer Demoralizing shout with last stand. For more safety you can ravager here and use the rage gain to push ignore pain into the bleed.
• The fifth pierce is the danger zone, depending on CDR rng, you may not have avatar back up to get another wall - if this is going to be the case, call for externals.
• Repeat from here, your walls will be coming off cooldown

Additional Tips:

• Due to the bleed dot, the ringing ritual mud trinket is very strong here, with an effective cooldown of 50s-1m. Chromebustible Bomb Suit is a good proxy as well. Either can be used at higher keys to help cover incoming damage.
• It’s important to remember the danger is the BLEED. You want to press your defensives just before pierce hits, so they cover the hit and as much of the bleed as possible.
• Spell reflect should be used during the miniboss aoe/debuff.
• Don’t be afraid to dump rage into ignore pain here over revenge during the bleed. Your dps drops to zero if you die.
• Discuss externals with your group before the dungeon. It’s far easier to just say you’ll need an external for the fifth pierce than to try to do it dynamically.

Maybe I paste it directly to the person that’s kinda long on mobile

[round pendant]

Spell block does nothing on the aoe miniboss

seems fine other than that tho

idk about the cd timings I kinda just yolo it with whatever I have

[frosty mango]

Oops

Originally had this for both Dailcry and momma good call

[sinful copper]

Is mud a 1m CD on momma too?

[frosty mango]

It’s pretty close

I think it was like 1:10 when I tested?

[coarse latch]

this is for higher keys right?

[round pendant]

nah you'll prob need to pay attention to it starting at like 13s

that boss hurts

tho ig a good enough healer could just save your ass

[slender bison]

Just get a Disc. He does have any other use of PainSupress anyways

[coarse latch]

13 is high for me im bad lol

[slender bison]

Stop being hyper independent. It's not Dragonflight anymore

[frosty mango]

for dailcry I got it down to like 56s

[round pendant]

Nothing stopping you from playing optimally at lower keys too

[frosty mango]

I got 3 uses in 2:39 boss

[round pendant]

it's good practice

[coarse latch]

yeah thats true

[slender bison]

I have 100% SB and 80% IP uptime with SWs + SR during bleed + AoE overlap in M15

This is my limit without external CD

Sitting at around 40% HP

[round pendant]

Could be worth mentioning purposely proccing BSV too

tho the boss might force you eventually anyway so

[slender bison]

RIP key

[round pendant]

why

[slender bison]

Because you need it when you need it and your healer will have a say in this

[round pendant]

lol

[slender bison]

It will proc, usually after SW charges are gone

[frosty mango]

that was my last key and I had externals slotted for 5/9

I never dropped below 50% health

IMO BSV isn't required for that key because the danger areas are all lumped together

if youre getting that low chances are youre gonna die regardless

maybe at like the 18-20 range

[round pendant]

you can purposely exploit having it tho

but ig if it's not needed then yeah whatevs

[slender bison]

What key level?

[round cliff]

i purposely exploit having it by being a dumbass

[frosty mango]

That was a 16

Bsv doesn’t feel necessary there (to me)

[slender bison]

Wish I had friends to run 16s

[frosty mango]

I pug

Basically everything

[slender bison]

Europe has lower population past 15-16s for some reason

Same

But stuck at 3.27k

Literally no invites

[frosty mango]

I pugged up to 14s super quick this season, stopped for a bit because main swaps but all my chars are geared so I’ll repush on war

[slender bison]

Will prob make my keys with Phys comp

[frosty mango]

Should have all my 16s done this week I think

[frosty mango]

I don’t struggle getting invites to 15s but at prime times I guess I might

When it’s 7am or 3am I don’t think people are particularly picky lol

[slender bison]

True that, usually weekends past 12 AM is good to push

But even then like max 1 page of 15s and half a page of 16s

During prime hours

[solid sun]

Theun stepped away

Resto shaman teacher person

Sad day

[slender bison]

Like? He unsubbed?

[solid sun]

He’s gonna play mop classic pretty sure

But he won’t be mythic raiding and idk if he will do any retail stuff

At least for now

[slender bison]

Yeah, all of'em do that. Same was with SoD and Classic 5 yrs ago. They return once those servers are empty

[solid sun]

But it seems his reasoning is that he doesn’t like retail rn and hopes Midnight fixes it

[slender bison]

Shaman or general?

Like we're in content draught, that's obvious

[solid sun]

Healing in general for sure. He has issues with power creep/complexity creep

[slender bison]

Shaman bloat is ridiculous, yea

Like you need MMO mouse or you literally can't play the class

[round pendant]

I'll be your friend

spoiler alert: I'm bad

[slender bison]

And your shield

Too bad you're also tank

[round pendant]

I'll have you know I've done all dungeons on all roles at +10

[round cliff]

man i feel this way about bm hunter and that spec is piss ez

idk how people play this game with anything less

[solid sun]

I don’t think shaman Bloat was really what he had in mind

I think he was talking more about how the talent trees have added a lot of complexity and power to specs and he isn’t super excited about that direction the game went in. Everyone has too many defensives and they keep trying to fix how healers work by increasing health pools but the problem doesn’t go away

Certain abilities have way too many talents or passives or other abilities that tie into them, etc

But he’s way smarter than me and would probably explain it much better than me

Sorry you just get me instead

[round pendant]

idk I can fit all shaman abilities on my bars

it feels bad to play though

[solid sun]

Yeah I don’t think the reason was shaman lol

[slender bison]

The last time I had fun healing was Legion on my Disc. Not due to the class, but because you had more than 1 GCD to fix the situation

Since then, everything dies in 1 GCD

So healing players usually lose the "spark" of saving a situation. It's frustrating

PvE starts to be like PvP from expac to expac

As a tank you also die in 1 GCD if you lose 0.1s of SB uptime and dont have BSV. It's ridiculous

You lose the sense of power/control

[round pendant]

healing isn't like that at all rn

only if people step in one shots

or don't defensive big dam unavoidable shit they're supposed to

watching Jak do like 18s and there's plenty of time to top people up

I say plenty, but I do think it's still a bit too little sometimes

[nocturne spindle]

the only place i feel like i die in global is attempting the giga pull at the start of priory

when he shieldbashes and some white hits line up

nothing else feels that fast

[frosty mango]

This is only true

When people use their defensives

When they don’t do that you just feel like you’re drowning the entire key trying to keep people alive

[mighty valley]

I feel this - it's the problem borrowed power systems were designed to solve, complexity creep from new expansion features

but the community got mad at those so instead we're just layering on a million talents that won't go away (in theory)

(they'll have to bite the bullet and prune eventually)

[solid sun]

Yeah I’m not one to try to armchair dev these days because I have no clue how to do it. But I do think the increasing health pools “solution” has failed

[slender bison]

What's the problem with talents? Besides being super inflexible and or bloated with useless stuff/unadapted to expansion hp/dmg numbers

[round pendant]

I don't

It just needs a little tweaking

the worst things was nerfing tanks and stops not kicking anymore

[frosty mango]

Gonna laugh when they remove demolish

[solid sun]

I’m gonna trust Theun over Yam in the “increasing health pools hasn’t worked” discussion lol

[frosty mango]

And we’re all left with sad thunderclap life

IMO raid has always been simple, but until they give m+ the pvp treatment nothings gonna change

You can’t tune one without breaking the other

They’ve done a pretty good job striking a balance imo

[vagrant merlin]

heya lads, quick question, since were getting a belt from blizzard soon and i had already crafted bracers and belt, which piece should i swap? craft cloak, boots or basically the lowest ilvl of them all?

[round pendant]

the best season in years and somehow it's a failure

theun? is that the guy who gaslit everyone into thinking the game is too complex because uhh tooltips too big?

[frosty mango]

Belt is far enough away it won’t really matter - I’d sim and just craft the biggest upgrade

[mighty valley]

they increase the baseline complexity a lot if most talent nodes are presenting "interesting choices." and that's something you can dial in but if you need to add more every expansion (like they did with hero talents) then the complexity is only gonna go up and up

[frosty mango]

I’m waiting for sub classes

War/sham when

[solid sun]

Someone said that there’s a weakaura to tell arcane mages when to press one of their buttons. Barrage maybe? Because there are so many things that interact with the ability it’s better to let the weakaura do the thinking for you

[slender bison]

Imagine WoW with 5 buttons like Dota. Subs would plummet due to the snorefest

[mighty valley]

imagine a number between five and six billion

[round pendant]

That exists for arms with execute and fury with bloodthirst

are those complex specs?

if something can be if-then'd then there'll be a WA for it

doesn't inherently mean it's too complimicated

[solid sun]

I believe arms is a lot harder than people realize and I don’t think the full kits not being complex doesn’t somehow mean that having that type of situation is just kinda dumb and unnecessary

[frosty mango]

I dunno I zug as arms and do ok

Definitely does not require brain

[solid sun]

I also don’t think some specs existing as simple, like BM, somehow means that arcane needing a special weakaura to determine when to press a button is just also kinda dumb

[frosty mango]

Are many mobs up?
Yes
Use collat buff
No
Do not use collat buff

[round pendant]

it's a little harder than it seems because there's some nuance

but that's not bad

in fact I'd argue it's good

it means when you make the right decision and get a 60m cleave

it feels good

[solid sun]

But that’s not the point of the conversation

Nobody gives a shit about arms warrior

[frosty mango]

Rude

There’s a whole channel of them

They might hear you

[round pendant]

I mean none of us are familiar with mage probably

but the principle is the same

[solid sun]

The talent trees themselves have added a lot of extra power and complexity in general to the game

And it hasn’t made it better

In fact, the season you claim is the best ever? Is the season they made m+ significantly easier for the majority

[round pendant]

I'm not sure how that is relevant to them dumbing down class design or not

[urban portal]

Depends

Dota 4 buttons is different than league 4 buttons

League does combat very well

[mighty valley]

yeah - complexity and depth are not the same thing

complexity is a cost you pay sometimes to achieve additional depth

if you apply six hundred effects to an ability but ultimately a robot can tell you when to press it with 100% accuracy? you've added complexity without depth

[urban portal]

Yeah and that’s arcane

Or the sudden death WA

League manage to have a lot of depth in 4 spells

[mighty valley]

ofc you get a lot of depth automatically with pvp

[frosty mango]

Complexity is only depth when it enables choice

If complexity doesn’t enable choice then what purpose does it serve?

[solid sun]

Make something harder

And I know you won’t like that answer because we’ve discussed it before but that’s the only other thing that makes sense

It’s more complex so it’s harder to understand which means it’s generally harder to control/manipulate.

until you have a robot do it for you

[coarse latch]

Fury is way easier than arms right?

[grizzled orbit]

Am i good when i just manage to get 3k as prot warr with 650ilvl 😇

[wraith ibex]

I think it means your healer is good 🤣

[limpid forum]

hey guys, is this correct/updated?

Ive seen in this discord that a lot of people recommend not to use outburst on thunder clap at all, but I'm re-reading this and it seems to say that it's fine above 7 targets, can anyone help me out here?

[jagged gust]

More rage with SS and you're more often than not have fewer than 7 targets outside of coordinated groups/initial lust pulls so it's more of a muscle memory thing

As colo at least

MT has enough TC modifiers that it's hard to waste a VO regardless of what spends it outside of ST

[jagged gust]

From a purely damage oriented perspective the two even out, but it's hard to overstate how important rage gen is to us overall, especially as colo

[vocal cave]

is sprocketmonger blockable? his autos

[lofty wren]

Helou guys, I am new to prot warrior althou I have a quite bit of experience as tank but never with warrior. My question is next if you want to let's say be competitive do you really need to play Colosus or can I go with Thunder?

I am finding Colosus a bit of a luck luster and I am not liking it that much

Does Mountain Thane really fals behind in dmg that much ? What I am trying to say is difference that significant that colosus straight our does that much dmg? Can I have similar numbers with both spec trees that is my question 😊

[sterile orbit]

you can play mountain thane it just does a lot less dmg but generates more rage

[slender bison]

You can run Thane up to 18s. The damage difference never saves a key until then. People just like to play meta. Have fun

[solid sun]

You won’t do similar numbers in dungeons if you’re playing colossus well. I think last I saw someone compare them mountain thane was ~20% less damage