moxie
#protection
nocturne spindle
round pendant
Up to par for what though?
nocturne spindle
something whats his naem
round pendant
I'm not trying to gatekeep I just legit don't see what problem this solves
lusty grotto
round pendant
Maybe it's less cognitive load for people in the m2-10 range so they can dodge swirlies better
But they're gonna have such a hard time learning to actually play their spec if they wanna ever go past that imo
and if they never wanna go past that then they don't need to do good-er dps anyway
jagged pier
I dont think u understand the anxiety some ppl have going into m+ if theres a button that lets u perfom even 70% effective as someone pressing buttons so u can focus on dodging that will help a lot of players try the content
round pendant
It's so whatever I just think it clashes with the whole thing with wow having actual complex rotations and decision making
solid sun
Wow shouldn’t have as many complex rotations as it has
round pendant
Like if 90% of the playerbase (idk the exact number of people who don't do m+) end up using this, won't that incentivise blizz to put less emphasis on designing interesting classes?
solid sun
Idk if that’s a hot take or not but ret paladin is goated for a reason
jagged pier
Thats should be for the high ceiling players u should really get 80% of a class by following a correct rotation like FF if u press what it tells u, u arent gunna be 100% but youll be 80
nocturne spindle
i mean yea theres alread like
half the dps spots are ret and BM hunter
its those two for a reason lmao
solid sun
Ret paladin is such a well done spec because it’s incredibly easy to pick up and play and your moment to moment button decisions are fairly low stakes but you can clearly tell the difference between a good and bad ret paladin
round pendant
Every class should be like Outlaw imo
solid sun
Riddled with bugs?
round pendant
Exactly
Nah I get your points
but like making simpler classes and leaving room for classes that are more complex is one thing
but making it so everyone can play any class at 70% effectiveness is just odd and to me seems like it'll make blizz not want to bother with the more complex ones
which if that's what you want it's fair ig but it's just eh to me
solid sun
I think you’re massively overthinking
round pendant
Well my whole point from the start was how it affects the game's design
and the publicly shaming thing was just a joke
lusty grotto
heres how it affects the game's design
the game will now be console ready
the game will have to factor in rotational complexity, measurable, so devs can actually look at what needs to be simplified etc
thats how
round pendant
I did like in the QA that Ion called out Outlaw being fuckin impossible to play without addons
round cliff
I did like in the QA that Ion called out Outlaw being fuckin impossible to play ...
there's a lot of specs that feel impossible to play without addons tbh
most any tank and healer, for one
round pendant
I don't really agree about impossible but yeah
jagged pier
I dunno they have dumbed down the specs a lot in the last few expansions imo
round pendant
I think addons are the cause of that too tbf
lusty grotto
not impossible, but the cognitive load is a bit much
round pendant
Yeah because they design them around addons I guess
"people will be able to track 20 million things because of addons"
round cliff
play brewmaster without a good way to track ur stagger
round pendant
so yknow what guys
round cliff
not happening
round pendant
maybe you're right
marsh charm
i was thinking or learning prot
round pendant
maybe this 1 button thing is good
hoary pike
game not that complex
marsh charm
but... i dont know how to start
hoary pike
people just dumb
round pendant
i was thinking or learning prot
Maintain shield block, press shield slam off cd, press defensives for big dam situations
done
lusty grotto
but... i dont know how to start
start here #protection message
i think i boiled down the basics there
hoary pike
if every spell didnt have 5 associated uses it’d feel a lot less overwhelming
marsh charm
thanks
round cliff
but the repercussions are heavy
hoary pike
i hope that the 1 button is macro’able
so i can just put like IF and on-use trinkets onto it and enjoy life
lusty grotto
thanks
i recommend you start with Mountain Thane, once you get to hero talent levels, its a bit more lenient, but if you wanna hop on the Colossus train, feel free as well, and feel free to ask questions here, this discord is for that
round pendant
also I saw their preview video show the rotation helper suggest applying kingsbane before shiv
this does not bode well
no this discord is for arguing over non-prot things
marsh charm
youre talking about their rotation helper they are adding?
round pendant
Yeah
marsh charm
well
they did say its not supposed to be optimal
just good enough kinda
if it was optimal
why play yourself
round pendant
tbf I don't really know how blizz design rotations
marsh charm
i dont know if they know either tbh
round pendant
But I feel like having it suggest things in the literal wrong order is kinda bad
round pendant
If the idea is for the rotation helper to teach people to move beyond the 1-button thing
marsh charm
especially with the smaller details
sharp gale
tbf I don't really know how blizz design rotations
i think they build rotations based on the previous ones etc etc
marsh charm
i dont think thats the idea tbh
i think they just want people to be able to play instantly
and then try learning on their own later
just what i think
lusty grotto
yeah thats what i got from it
pressing a skill in a different priority order because there's stacks/procs/etc is just optimizing
ala OP over MS with tier/resets
lusty grotto
agreed
sharp gale
But I feel like having it suggest things in the literal wrong order is kinda bad
pressing kingsbane then shiv is better than not pressing shiv
round pendant
My initial idea was that their goal path would be like
1 button: beginners, just play the game ->
helper: actually learn the basics to play your spec ->
3rd-party resources: optimise
and I GUESS shivving first is in that third category
but we haven't seen enough of it yet ig
sharp gale
and 3rd party ressources is : shiv dispel enrages
slender bison
You need 12s for Mythic trinkets Dinars. Finally
round pendant
good change thanks blizz
slender bison
You no longer need to be unemployed for Mythic raiding
round pendant
tbh you kinda need to be unemployed to get to 12s
or to do all 12s
My friend can only play a few times a week so we're still not at all 12s yet
we did pug some raid though some days, and geared some alts a bit
slender bison
The weekly quest that provides Puzzling Cartel Chips will now offer players a choice between killing 4 raid bosses in Liberation of Undermine or completing 4 Mythic+ dungeons. Additionally, the vendor will now offer a selection of trinkets from Season 2 dungeons, in addition to the previously-planned raid items.
lusty grotto
yes we know
lucid mica
Did today priory 11 and the first boss isnt funny huh
indigo hawk
Can someone tell me why I only mitigated by 23% here with all my defensive up ? (The tank bomb on 5/8 mythic)
Ah shit it didn’t cut well
lusty grotto
you didnt block it
jagged pier
Where u looking at the boss?
lusty grotto
also did you leap during it?
indigo hawk
I got shield wall + reflect + shield block up
jagged pier
U werent looking at the boss with spell block up and no block
round pendant
You have to face the boss? lmao
round pendant
I guess I just do that by habit
jagged pier
Thats how blocking works
indigo hawk
Wtf ???
lusty grotto
also leap bugs it out
indigo hawk
Wtf is that ahah
lusty grotto
thats... blocking
jagged pier
Dont know why sw and sr only mitigated it by 20% tho 
round pendant
Thats how blocking works
yeah but isn't it like a thing that just blows up ON you, not like an attack coming from the boss?
indigo hawk
You need to face boss to block a spell on you ??
jagged pier
yeah but isn't it like a thing that just blows up ON you, not like an attack com...
U still have to face the thing thats attacking you
Yes
How do u block a spell if it hits u in the backm
How do u block a melee if it comes from ebhind u
U dont
round pendant
Well it's not coming FROM the boss in the party pack instance, no?
indigo hawk
Dont know why sw and sr only mitigated it by 20% tho <:shruge:111120434283022342...
Yeah I really don’t understand, I go the replay and all my def was up
round pendant
like, conceptually
there's lots of targetted things that don't really have a direction per se
round pendant
party pack is explicitly stated as YOU exploding
so I would have never thought I'd have to face the boss to block it
indigo hawk
so I would have never thought I'd have to face the boss to block it
Yeah me too
lusty grotto
you cant exactly face yourself
if you really think about it
i suppose you can with a mirror
solid sun
you cant exactly face yourself
Every morning in the mirror I come face to face with this monster
lusty grotto
but are you blocking that monster?
torn gulch
so everyone is getting mythic tome
now
after you guys farmed so hard for the hero track one
solid sun
but are you blocking that monster?
Depends on what I did the night before
lusty grotto
ok but if someone throws a cherry bomb to you, how do you block it
asking the real questions
lusty grotto
ah yes, the good ole parry
round pendant
like I just assumed if the location of the damage was on me
block direction didn't matter
but ig it does
sharp gale
also I saw their preview video show the rotation helper suggest applying kingsba...
i was more thinking about this, caustic spatter / deathstalker mark with the helper 
round pendant
yeah
dot classes feel like they just ain't gonna work
unless they literally have it tell people to apply dots on other targets
sharp gale
says to mutilate to reapply caustic you switch traget says to mutilate to reapply caustic
sharp gale
i don't know
sharp gale
i guess he doesn't handle that then
lusty grotto
in our case, it pulls Nome's APL
if the APL has a line that prio's that condition, its covered
sharp gale
since it obviously doesn't tell you to "return on your initial target"
lusty grotto
right
sharp gale
does it even tell you to switch targets ?
round pendant
I reckon it just assumes your current target is your prio at all times
lusty grotto
no
frosty mango
At what point do we expect the game to be played for us lol
sharp gale
idk i'm not doggo at the game so it doesn't affect me
solid sun
So if we can go M tome, M pacemaker, H House, H Kezan.
I wonder how the sims will shake out for dungeons. Obviously Kezan is out on certain dungos
I wonder if H House and M Pace beats out M Pace and M Tome
Maybe the one button rotation thing will tell me what gear to equip
sharp gale
Maybe the one button rotation thing will tell me what gear to equip
it's pawn addon job
round pendant
fwiw I think the general direction Ion stated is good
I ain't just a complainer nimchip 😠
round pendant
I'm just a critical chris
sharp gale
i'm a Big Blizzard W andy
round pendant
It's just how my brain works
marsh charm
do you use rend?
round pendant
First thing I notice about things is what I don't like about it lmao
round pendant
do you use rend?
thunder clap applies rend
lusty grotto
do you use rend?
tc applies it
round pendant
don't use whirlwind or slam either
solid sun
Ooooo we could buy a myth track mud now @chilly brook
frosty mango
No
I don’t even need to see a sim to tell you that
I guess maybe if it were for fury and it were in your offhand maybe but I highly doubt it
restive oak
alot of ppl in my guild say heroic bis is better than myth options, but none of them are warrior
marsh charm
ok im going to try prot now. set up stuff now ig
vast laurel
Hi folks. Does anyone have any recommendations for some good tank M+ guide videos? Prot warrior would be ideal but not required per se. Trying to get all 12s done and then maybe push a little higher, but unsure on best pulls etc when things get a little harder! Thanks in advance!
sharp gale
is best in slots heroic better than a 678 generic 2h
i think it is better as off hand as fury
but should just sim it if it's 0.1% up, not worth a dinar
but as main hand, the 675 crafted 2h is better
marsh charm
tried a bit on dummies
im too scared to try in dungeons lmao
but it feels good to play
lusty grotto
did you keep SB up
marsh charm
me?
marsh charm
i tried clicking it as much as possible
i might have forgotten a few times though
also demo shout should be used as much as possible right?
lusty grotto
if you do that youll just stack its duration, but it caps, so try not to press it so much
duration caps at 3x its base duration
just track it and keep it up
its your main active mitigation
practice that and face mobs, and you will do fine
round pendant
also demo shout should be used as much as possible right?
yes
assuming mobs are in range of it
lusty grotto
ok play Heavy Repercussions, until you get 4pc and 16k haste rating (at that point you can swap it to Into The Fray)
your most important thing is keep ing SB up
marsh charm
but im dummy thicc
lusty grotto
after you manage SB uptime, your 2nd most important thing is managing rage: you generate a lot of it via Shield Slam or "SS"
marsh charm
o
lusty grotto
you use it by pressing SB, Ignore Pain (at 70+ rage) or by full sending a revenge
prot warrior revolves around using rage
marsh charm
mm i just installed a weakaura to show me how much rage i have
marsh charm
do i even get out of defensive stance?
lusty grotto
if there's 3 things you need to track are:
- SB
- Rage
- Outburst (but we can talk about that later on)
lusty grotto
do i even get out of defensive stance?
no need
marsh charm
oke
lusty grotto
unless if you wanna parse in raid or w/e
marsh charm
ah ok i dont care about that
lusty grotto
yeah just stick in d stance
marsh charm
ill do that
lusty grotto
mighty valley
just not worth adding a thing to think about that might fuck you over in exchange for 3% crit
marsh charm
i feel like taunting is going to be my worst nigthmare
marsh charm
i dont know. i just have a feeling ill forget all my binds and it all go to sheet
mighty valley
if you do LFR or whatever and have a boss mod installed, it'll just yell at you when you're meant to taunt
find your button, press it
lusty grotto
you can do the bot dungeons too
marsh charm
oh yeah
lusty grotto
follower dungeons
marsh charm
i wonder if the bots even take agro if i attack nromally
lusty grotto
they will rip agro if youre not playing correctly yes
marsh charm
ah ok
marsh charm
i have a feeling people will attack too soon and take agro before ive even begin pulling lol
lusty grotto
that will happen
mighty valley
having flashbacks to people in vanilla dungeons pulling aggro and running directly away from me
marsh charm
and then blame me
mighty valley
and charge not being useable in combat
lusty grotto
shouldn't be a feeling, the lower the key or dungeon, it happens
even with good/mastered rotation
at that point its their own fault
and they are losing dps if they blast the first pack they see
not to mention potentially dying
just practice with followers for now
marsh charm
okay ill do that
lusty grotto
when youre good with SB uptime, and facing mobs, and pressing SS on cd while managing rage, you can mvoe to reg dungeons
frosty mango
and then blame me
That will happen too
Remember getting aggro back is a lot harder than keeping it so if they’re pulling stuff before you, that’s a them problem not a you problem
frosty mango
lusty grotto
OLD
frosty mango
About to have a lot of mythic tome havers
nocturne spindle
weve already annoyed nim for his drops
you can do it again for fun
always good to watch
lusty grotto
sharp gale
Now I have the copium of one day blizzard will remove the backshots 
solid sun
Why
lusty grotto
dont get me started Rhino
sharp gale
Archaic mech that cause friction at new tank players (the unicorns of m+)
sharp gale
Or my bad English
solid sun
No your English isn’t bad
lusty grotto
have you tried blocking the headache
solid sun
I need a mirror stat
solid sun
If the positional requirement is where in facing I don’t see that as real friction
Dps players gotta face their enemies to stab them
I gotta face em to block em
lusty grotto
its archaic
solid sun
Now if we were talking about 14’s rotational requirements where you have to stand behind or to the side, I’d agree
lusty grotto
and the punishment to us is very severe in comparison with other tanks
stiff gate
the problem with the whole block from the front thing is that the difference between blocking and not blocking is insane
you turn you back on a pack for 1 gcd and you are dead
i turned for literally .7 seconds to heroic throw a mob the other day and took 16mil in melees in that .7sec
died instantly
skill issue ofc but still like
lusty grotto
but its also why block has remained so strong to begin with
stiff gate
its crazy
sharp gale
Dps players gotta face their enemies to stab them
Healers never had to face their targets
sharp gale
Why not tanks for block / parry
solid sun
If I can stab someone without looking at them
lusty grotto
sir we reflect magic
stiff gate
it would also be less dumb if i had a way to pull 20 mobs without running up to punch each of them in the face or throw my sword at them 1 at a time
solid sun
I may as well just use a one button rotation helper
stiff gate
because that's really the main issue
lusty grotto
maybe
sharp gale
If I can stab someone without looking at them
You can turn your camera away or turn off your screen
lusty grotto
its a huge part of it for sure
stiff gate
getting hit in the back almost exclusively happens to me because im trying to gather/keep threat on 4-5 separate trash packs, once the mobs are actually fighting me its not really a concern
solid sun
I’d rather shield wall just enable 360 degrees of block
Because the animation is being surrounded by shields
lusty grotto
well it kinda does since DR doesnt care about any positional requirements
sharp gale
getting hit in the back almost exclusively happens to me because im trying to ga...
So, wouldn’t it help new tanks if it was not a big deal to try gather mobs bc backshots, while managing regular damage taken, threat, trashs mechs and dps rotation
lusty grotto
were all on the same page here
stiff gate
sure, my point was just that backshots being so dangerous is mostly a factor of needing to individually hit lots of mobs in lots of different places. i think either mitigating backshots or making it easier to aggro mobs from range could both make things better
sharp gale
They made agro easy, it’s just the fact you can’t move freely that makes it hard
stiff gate
in short: bring back 5-tar heroic throw
solid sun
Threat is more archaic than positional requirements
stiff gate
They made agro easy, it’s just the fact you can’t move freely that makes it hard
by making it easy to aggro from range i mean like dh (if it wasn't so buggy) can drop a sigil to hit an entire pack, where we have to throw a weapon at one mob and the rest might just sprint at the healer instead
so instead we have to actually run to the pack and hit it with tclap or revenge or roar
small steeple
Technically, most of the stat calculations and stuff from vanilla/classic, are still there, under the hood so stoo speak. So there still is a hit chance, etc etc. It's just now set to a value of 1
sharp gale
Threat is more archaic than positional requirements
that's why they removed threat almost completly , you press thunderclap the mob is stuck on you unless specific class at one moment/patch
before in the old days, it was really a mech
stiff gate
that's why they removed threat almost completly , you press thunderclap the mob ...
this hasn't been super true this patch. there are a lot of times where 1 tclap is not enough to hold off dps setting up. mostly because tclap is pathetic as colossus
solid sun
One of the chief complaints of the season is tank threat
stiff gate
im also not even talking about like, your idiot dps threw his cds on first global, i mean like your boomkin moonfired and your shaman spread flame shock and now suddenly a random mob gets aggroed
round pendant
nah I don't agree with removing backshots
small steeple
One of the chief complaints of the season is tank threat
well, I mean, a lot of that is coming from fotm chasers on vdh who don't actually know how to play the high key build, then play it anyway
sharp gale
compared to before, i consider threat as a non-mech of the game, if someone body pull, 1 thunderclap i have aggro eternally on the new targets
chilly brook
One of the chief complaints of the season is tank threat
and they decided to nerf us
round pendant
I can tell a key is gonna be shit based on how easy it is for me to gather
solid sun
It’s not just fotm vdh players
stiff gate
if you think threat isn't real u havent seen an enhance hit the 4 wolf pstorm inside doom winds
small steeple
It’s not just fotm vdh players
ngl, I've not seen any other tank players complain about threat. Occasionally on pwar I see it, but that's just because Col plays so different from MT
chilly brook
ngl, I've not seen any other tank players complain about threat. Occasionally on...
monk chief
small steeple
monk chief
small steeple
<:keks:936231610850897992>
doubt
sharp gale
im also not even talking about like, your idiot dps threw his cds on first globa...
you don't lose aggro bc the boomie moonfired
stiff gate
you don't lose aggro bc the boomie moonfired
if the only thing i have hit a pack of trash with is 1 thunderclap, i have lost aggro to all kinds of nonsense where my dps want to start putting dots up
chilly brook
yeah like I don't think I've lost aggro to a boomie
patent osprey
Bring back titanic throw ❤️ 😉
chilly brook
def to an ele shaman but that's because their burst is obscene
forest sluice
Hunter main here, we do the misdirect and big dam invite us
chilly brook
Bring back titanic throw ❤️ 😉
say hi to Rain for me 🙂
Or I guess I can say hi to him next time I log in/we raid
patent osprey
lel
sharp gale
if the only thing i have hit a pack of trash with is 1 thunderclap, i have lost ...
yes, and i thunderclap and heroic jump to the next pack and i don't lose aggro bc dots
we are stuck then
stiff gate
🤷♂️ you must just be better at thunderclapping than me
round pendant
I've never lost aggro to dots
stiff gate
ive attempted 16 workshop like 7 times now and bricked 6 of those to the first pull people ripping off me as i try to tag all 4 packs
sharp gale
aggro rip from dots because you don't have hit some targets is different
round pendant
that's just people griefing you
stiff gate
i revenge first 3, tclap the right pack, roar the middle pack, then tclap the left pack, and by the time ive made it there the right pack is running at some random dps player
stiff gate
i dont have tclap for all 3
chilly brook
put roar on everything lol
stiff gate
unless i sit there and wait for it
sharp gale
idk i just tell someone to pull the right pack for me
chilly brook
Or talent out of battering ram and talent into ravager
stiff gate
i usually drop ravager when they're all grouped
but regardless, the assertion was "you won't lose threat when you've hit mobs with thunderclap"
solid sun
I will never tank high keys if you are not taking ravager
stiff gate
which is just fake
chilly brook
I will never tank high keys if you are not taking ravager
It's like 50/50 same same
lusty grotto
drop ravager on their travel route, not in place
chilly brook
ravager vs no ravager
chilly brook
drop ravager on their travel route, not in place
this
sharp gale
but regardless, the assertion was "you won't lose threat when you've hit mobs wi...
i said you don't lose aggro bc the boomie moonfired
stiff gate
compared to before, i consider threat as a non-mech of the game, if someone body...
"eternally"
lusty grotto
arcane can rip
sharp gale
"eternally"
you know if you can thunderclap mobs, it means it is in range of you
stiff gate
arcane isn't bad because its usually just 1 target they're ripping, and its usually the target you're looking at anyway
stiff gate
im talking about
gathering multiple packs
i thunder clap a pack, run to the next one
patent osprey
If you guys are talking about Workshop directly, for high keys my go to pull strat is
Charge front 3 + Revenge
Leap to the right pack + TC, Heroic throw 1 mob in the back pack
Drop ravager off center the middle area where everything walks by/groups up
Shield charge to the left pack -> Dragons Roar when everything is nearby and slowly kite to an edge area and around
solid sun
threat machine class lol
He always says sorry and acts surprised but it’s happened enough I think it’s on purpose lol
sharp gale
gathering multiple packs
so not about the context stated in the "eternally"
stiff gate
If you guys are talking about Workshop directly, for high keys my go to pull str...
this is helpful thanks
lusty grotto
i do something similar
patent osprey
Also do not run Thunderclap slow in that dungeon
Or else ur first pull is gonna go worse
unless u plan to not TC anything while grouping
lusty grotto
ah yes the good ole, cant sync the bombs
solid sun
Huh
lusty grotto
you sync the bombs to disrupt them
stiff gate
unfortunately there's a 100% chance something gets 90% DND slowed before they're fully grouped regardless of what i do
lusty grotto
but if timmy the first bomb is waddling to you, they get start casting off to the side
goes on cd cause it gets kicked
no sync
stiff gate
first saws is always the middle ones?
or is it the "around in a circle" ones
i ask cuz it seems easier to group them all to sync the casts if you can just go straight to mid but i think the first saws go straight to the middle so not a great idea
solid sun
What if you just do it in two pulls
lusty grotto
i mean you can but thats not what they're discussing
stiff gate
you can if you aren't worried about time
frosty mango
unfortunately there's a 100% chance something gets 90% DND slowed before they're...
Dk should be sending abomb limb then and it should all be in melee in a few seconds
wicked pollen
or just stun one or 2 packs to sync
solid sun
How much time is saved by doing all four packs at once
frosty mango
How much time is saved by doing all four packs at once
30-60s
stiff gate
30 sec maybe?
frosty mango
Depends on your dps
stiff gate
workshop timer isn't insanely tight but its not free like motherlode or anything
solid sun
They’re all high to me, Nimchip :(
frosty mango
If you have a uh dk and a boomy you are saving a lot of time
solid sun
I know. But we are failing to consistently time 13
lusty grotto
14s can be timed with splitting them
solid sun
So I’m wondering if now is the time to start doing it
frosty mango
I know. But we are failing to consistently time 13
The first room isn’t the issue then
lusty grotto
yeah i agree with roid
patent osprey
Can't get better pulling it in 2 pulls 😉 Gotta brick some keys, so you get used to the pulls
Resilient 😄
frosty mango
If you are failing timer with no deaths you are just not doing enough damage
solid sun
That’s true
frosty mango
That may be a route issue, it may be a dps issue
It will be one of the two, but likely not route
Workshop is w key
You get two choices the entire fringe on, first boss trash, and the hallway to second boss
stiff gate
if you're not timing 13s its probably not a route issue, especially in workshop where beyond the first like 4 pulls of the dungeon everyone plays it almost exactly the same
solid sun
How much damage should my dps doing as we approach more 13s and 14s?
What’s the benchmark
frosty mango
How much damage should my dps doing as we approach more 13s and 14s?
What classes?
violet ginkgo
I think he asked prot warrior colossus
solid sun
Balance Druid, Devoker, Ret Paladin, Marks Hunter
violet ginkgo
oh not prot war? ok
frosty mango
All of those should be comfortably around 2.7-3.5 in workshop
High variance but I’d say if everyone were at 2.7ish the timer would be a nonissue, up to 3.5 if they’re blasting
Workshop is kind of a shitty marks dungeon and I usually end around 3m on my alt
lusty grotto
this is my lowest group dps 13
still timed
so....
around 2m to 2.1m you can time it
lusty grotto
it'll be higher in details, but i cant fucking pull it out of my ass
frosty mango
it'll be higher in details, but i cant fucking pull it out of my ass
Reach deeper
lusty grotto
he can probably compare with his own logs
solid sun
Idk how to log dungeons
lusty grotto
im busy delving on my alts
solid sun
So anyways that’s helpful
frosty mango
I don’t have many close calls on workshop 13 but here’s one that was failed with guildies by like 10s
So that’s prob about as low as you can go
small iris
as a mainly m+ player, i've heard that tome is better for certain keys like ToP and WORK, i myself have a pacemaker and tome, what m+ trinket would be better to run outside of tome for those two keys? or do i just stick with what i got and don't worry aboot it?
lusty grotto
no, tome is better for EVERY key
you heard wrong
the only trinket that is worse in ToP is kezan
and arguably Workshop, but you can cheese the sneaking part by pulling mobs
small iris
okay, was just wondering, i guess certain m+ trinkets for other tanks are better, it was in the pld discord they mentioned tome recently, someone said to use tome mainly in low mob count keys, wasn't sure if it was the same for wars
lusty grotto
thats incorrect
even for them
cinderbrew
floodgate
priory
DFC
so... i dont know what they are smoking
that being said, on 16 or higher keys, packs will last longer so its uptime will be lower
probably not considerably so
small iris
alright, i prob won't be doing 16s, working on getting mainly 3k so 12s and 13s, which i haven't done yet
so i'll just consider every tank prob wants tome
small iris
which 5/6 of my tanks have it
lusty grotto
you will be fine with tome
small iris
prob stick to pacemaker/tome combo for most tanks for offence
lusty grotto
sounds good
can pace/bomb suit if you need the defensive option
and pace/mud on floodgate because of all the dots
small iris
bomb suit will be when they add the trash dinar system in
hardy snow
bomb suit will be when they add the trash dinar system in
you mean, the TURBO boost 
lusty grotto
well i got mine in the vault
probably because blizzard felt sorry for me running priory forty six fucking times for tome
woven radish
if you think threat isn't real u havent seen an enhance hit the 4 wolf pstorm in...
In priory first big knight/miniboss pull....like 30 seconds in even half the shit was already dead.... the enh isnta ripped like half the remaining pack, pretty crazy how spikey they can get
small iris
tome is prob the trinket i got faster then any others in my luck
small iris
Where can I find the tome weak aura?
DK blood discord has the tome WA
lusty grotto
theres a gazillion in wago
regular trinket trackers also work
you dont have to pick one specific
just choose whatever you like
heavy sparrow
round cliff
how do people survive the double knight pull at the start of priory
my solution has been dont do that pull
lusty grotto
dont do that pull
round cliff
k
ive got a new route thats nice for me
ill stick to it
is it bad that im considering bsv for priory
lusty grotto
not at all
round cliff
1st boss and braunpike miniboss hurt so fuckin bad for no god damn reason
im tired of sweating over it
lusty grotto
go for it
round cliff
what do i drop, battering ram?
indigo hawk
Surviving is all time the priority for a tank
lusty grotto
yeah its priory
small iris
yes
round cliff
thats so fucked
small iris
tome shield gets eaten by that boss
small iris
so thats how i know
lusty grotto
you dont really need BSV in ML
round cliff
i dont take it in ML
3rd boss is the only pain point and its a healer problem
i just need to rotate my magic defensives better ig
small iris
what are ppl dropping for battering ram? ravenger?
small iris
and i assume thats just for dmg or is indom weak?
indigo hawk
I take BSV in every dungeon, for me the 5% dmg increase is nothing compared to survive on a bad pull or mistake
small iris
then u swap ram for BSV for priory and brew?
lusty grotto
I take BSV in every dungeon, for me the 5% dmg increase is nothing compared to s...
you do you buddy, just remember to face what youre blocking
cerulean tusk
yuck
chilly brook
what are ppl dropping for battering ram? ravenger?
if you're taking BSV then you basically pick between having ravager or battering ram
lusty grotto
then u swap ram for BSV for priory and brew?
sure, or if the key is high enough (15+)
indigo hawk
you do you buddy, just remember to face what youre blocking
Ahah now i will remember it !
small iris
sure, or if the key is high enough (15+)
thx for help, mainly was war tank main till DF then swapped to DK cause i love thrill rides i cannot get off
so my war knowledge has been outdated since those eras
upbeat sparrow
Hey accidently looted my vault as prot and got a myth cinderbrew stein is it any good I have a hero house of cards and a hero pacemaker
cerulean tusk
Oof, that is a hard one, it is the one that buffs others. If so, it is about a 12% dps increase for ppl on proc, but it got 10% uptime. So you can think of it as a sudo "1.2%" buff for your team. It isnt halfbad, but does basically nothing for yourself
frosty mango
probably because blizzard felt sorry for me running priory forty six fucking tim...
I’m at like 60 floodgates on my hunter
I feel you
indigo hawk
What about thunderlord ? A lot of top war prot use it instead of ravager like me
lusty grotto
at least dungeons are fun, so the grind is bearable
small iris
at least we get to farm tome and pacemaker next seaon, KEKW
small iris
priory/flood/dawn and ara-ara won the votes
small steeple
sacbrood was over valued
small steeple
priory/flood/dawn and ara-ara won the votes
they never said how many, though
small iris
i thought there was a blue post with the 4 TWW that would be in S3
lusty grotto
I’m curious but why no for you ? The top 1 chinese use it
because you barely TC as colossus
small steeple
i thought there was a blue post with the 4 TWW that would be in S3
nope, only wowhead articles
lusty grotto
if you want to go by the chinese, you should ask them
indigo hawk
Yeah I would love to ask them but it’s hard ahah
lusty grotto
and most people i link that too arent even without "high key range"
where the DR is whats important
chilly brook
I mean I'd pay attention to the Chinese but for different reasons
they cook up a lot of good routes
idk about their builds though lol
lusty grotto
💯
chilly brook
They're also like 10ilvl higher than everyone else and Yoda is still keeping up with them
lusty grotto
you know
i just realized something
ret paladins have banner
its called divine hammer
i was doing it and it just clicked
"huh, why does this feel so much like banner"
well, its literally the same concept
well, at least this season where they are playing it due to tier
small steeple
"huh, why does this feel so much like banner"
you're making me want to try ret... which is impressive
dusky canopy
Ngl the thought of playing ass rogue has been appealing to me a lot the past week
lusty grotto
ret is fun in a dumb way, but with a banner-like skill i might actually full send it again
small steeple
anyone who's played oblivion prior to remaster knows the real god build it always turns into is a spellsword
spellsword oblivion=skyrim stealth archer
dusky canopy
Yeah I know destruction is ridiculously op
I just like playing sneak blade marksman
I played all of Skyrim the same way too
sinful copper
For routes, do prot warriors typically do smaller pulls than what a dh would do? Or can I just follow all the same routes?
Getting into 14s now
sinful copper
I find gathering more challenging without an AOE ranged ability too. I heroic throw 2 packs together, charge into 3rd, and the dps start dotting stuff or something and strays go everywhere. It's annoying
And I'll mostly be pugging
wicked pollen
I usually tend to open with sc or charge tc move towards my 2nd/3rd packs heroic throw or leap to one of the 2 and use roar incase i lose aggro
or hope my dps
are not braindead
when im a bit lsow
sinful copper
Haha yeah
sinful copper
That would be nice
dusky canopy
It’s really dependent on situation but charge TC the first two packs usually works out pretty good
Or the group just needs to stay behind you and recognize your class
Charge thunderclap, heroic throw farthest pack, charge thunderclap last pack
Something like that idk
sinful copper
Is 85% shield block acceptable or am I trash until I hit 90%+?
sinful copper
It’s really dependent on situation but charge TC the first two packs usually wor...
I'll try this out
dusky canopy
Ideally 100% right but I usually shoot for 90+ as a reasonable bench mark
I was averaging 92-94% blocked hits
lusty grotto
For routes, do prot warriors typically do smaller pulls than what a dh would do?...
vdh or prot warr pick doesnt determine pull size
both can handle the same amount of mobs and the same pulls
whether your group can handle them, thats the issue
and yes you wanna be at 90+ on effective blocking on logs
haughty swallow
Maybe I'm just bad luck incarnate, but has anyone heard of any bugs with the tome not dropping for prot war? I'm over 65 runs and haven't seen it drop once. I'm beginning to doubt my sanity...
lusty grotto
thats...
20 more runs than me
i guess you beat my high score
its just RNG tbh
i feel ya
haughty swallow
it's driving me bananas
haughty swallow
true enough
round pendant
I'm so sad
we shrouded the 2nd to last pack and I got stuck on the thing and 2 guys ran ahead and died and we wiped
is there even a reason to rush there
don't you just shroud and let the tank go pull
36s overtime with 13 deaths lmao
jagged gust
I've been there, rogue bolts ahead, pulls aggro, drops shroud while people are still at the bottom of ramp and then presto you've got the worst double pack pull in the game
lusty grotto
just dont
leap it
agro the last pack
and pull inside
the rest of the group can chill skipping
they wont get into combat by the last pack
round pendant
oh I didn't even think that I could leap over it
jagged gust
See that's the qdce I stick aron here for
lusty grotto
then you can either fight it, or pull it to the side and completely skip it
jagged gust
Advice
round pendant
honestly don't even need to skip it for 12-13s
everyone but me died in third boss too
dungeon is so free
chilly brook
anyone who's played oblivion prior to remaster knows the real god build it alway...
Skyrim was great but the change in the magic system to it taking up your hands and not having quick cast keybinds without any spell crafting etc. was the biggest loss going from Oblivion to Skyrim
lusty grotto
honestly its quite easy to soothe and go around the ring on the outside
chilly brook
My ideal ES6 is Skyrim and Oblivion blended
lusty grotto
but to mitigate people pulling early i just started leaping and thats been how i do it since
jagged gust
Remember like a decade ago they released the ES6 intro? Like c'mon Bethesda who were you trying to fool
chilly brook
Oblivion major/minor skills and attributes+Skyrim perk tree (but like better), Oblivion magic system, Skyrim's world building, Skyrim's vampirism and crafting etc.
tall cairn
Hey guys. HOw do I look at "blocked %" in logs?
dusky canopy
Go to damage taken
Hover over melee “hits”
And you can see blocked hits %
That’s what matters
tall cairn
Ok great! And that means that any non blocked hit is either becuase i had shield block down when the hit came in or because I was showing my back to enemies, was careless and had bad positioning. Correct?
nocturne spindle
yesh
lusty grotto
Ok great! And that means that any non blocked hit is either becuase i had shield...
if you do this
under damage taken
and hover over melee hits, like brew said
any non blocked hits are 100% guaranteed to be back hits
for example, thats 42 back hits
or here with the full picture
back hits received without SB up are a lot harder to track, if not impossible
always hover over hits, not the amount btw
tall cairn
filtering the shield block buff / aura means that it only considers damage taken while aura is up or any damage taken while its off?
Anyway I've been taking a SHIT LOAD of damage from the back my god.
Honeslty amazing i got to 3k playing like this god I suck
too much dps mentality
lusty grotto
filtering the shield block buff / aura means that it only considers damage taken...
yes
green means only when its up
red means only when its down
neither means, well you get the idea
tall cairn
Yeah I understand, thanks. This is insane to me
strong forum
lusty grotto
thats 85% while SB was up
so.... i dont know about it being ok
i guess its more acceptable than any hits coming through while SB was down
depending on the difference i guess
having 15% being back hits seems very dangerous, and thats only the ones that were done when SB was up
lofty warren
https://youtu.be/eyGhtnuGjdI?si=FKUfQggyU4OrEaLo
Is this real or bait? My poor heart may not be able to take it if it's a lie and blizz is still doing dinars the bad way
vast epoch
Supposed to be real aslong you complete all 12's /unlock resilient system
arctic marten
Is the formula to calculate how much absorb a new Ignore Pain cast would provide available anywhere?
lusty grotto
yes
in the tooltip
or here (second entry in the change log) https://www.wowhead.com/spell=190456/ignore-pain#changelog
just replace 0 by AP * 5.6875 on the top one unless that's gone, which i highly doubt because every time they hide it its always a multiple of AP
lofty warren
So if you only did m+ then the only mythic gear you can get is trinkets?
lusty grotto
hmmm.. now that i think about it
could just be straight AP, fuck im gonna have to log on my warrior
oh nvm
its right there
so yea
(AP * 5.6875) * (1 + Versa)
up to 30% of total HP (not current!)
also vers is used as its percentage so if you have 11%, it should be 0.11
full plover
Kinda shit it's not the whole loot pool imo
frosty mango
also vers is used as its percentage so if you have 11%, it should be `0.11`
So you’re saying we can stack vers then pressing ip is god mode
lusty grotto
LOL
full plover
Like just let us have fun, this season has already been so much more fun than s1
lusty grotto
good luck with that Roid
frosty mango
At least getting loot would be easy
No one else wants it
Triple trinket on Sprock
On my hunter, sad
solid sun
What should I learn how to heal on, Roid
frosty mango
Are you smart or dumb
solid sun
What’s the vibe I give off here
frosty mango
You’re definitely an Rsham player
warm plinth
Lmfao
frosty mango
Buy some mana pots, you’ll need em
solid sun
I assume this means you find me to be brilliant
frosty mango
Yes, absolutely
sinful copper
What should I learn how to heal on, Roid
Learn how to heal on.... A blood dk
frosty mango
Rsham is easy, and strong
Hpriest is easy and decent
Hpal and Druid kinda in the middle
solid sun
I just need to be able to do 10s for the achievement
frosty mango
Disc priest is tougher but more in like a “I need to know the dungeon” kinda way
Mistweaver is galaxy brain
And presvoker basically doesn’t exist because it’s poop so don’t do that one
frosty mango
I just need to be able to do 10s for the achievement
Oracle disc is pretty much a lock for 10s once you know how to play it but rsham would prob be much easier
solid sun
Alright
frosty mango
Also don’t play Hpriest in keys that’s griefing
solid sun
lol did you see that little graphic
There’s precisely 1 H Priest that’s currently in title range
frosty mango
Yeah it’s that Chinese rain man dude
solid sun
One lonely H Priest holding on for dear life
frosty mango
Or Hannavi
solid sun
Healing seems so cursed. Idk how you just start doing damage. I’d be constantly afraid someone is about to die
frosty mango
It’s consistently the worst healer for m+ by miles because they refuse to address the core problem of the spec
frosty mango
Healing seems so cursed. Idk how you just start doing damage. I’d be constantly ...
You just let them die
warm plinth
Healing has the highest knowledge requirement of any role
frosty mango
For like 90% of any key you’re literally dpsing, there’s specific things you need to actively heal and you get to know those as you learn
warm plinth
You learn damage patterns with experience and figure out when you can dps. But you can also just throw out a global here and there of damage. Its better than nothing
frosty mango
Once you get that if people are dying it’s almost always their fault not yours
warm plinth
Like on druid you just make sure you sunfire every pull
frosty mango
Like I’ve never bricked a 15 and said “healer problem”
warm plinth
Rsham probably healing rain if they still have the toxic rain thing
frosty mango
Ever
warm plinth
Disc obviously you dps anyway
frosty mango
Healing lower keys way more stressful than higher keys
warm plinth
100% agree
Healing level is legit like 2-5 you're bored, 6-10 you're sweating your balls off, then it starts to chill past that
frosty mango
I am also not as high on both of my healers so I can’t really speak from experience past like 13
I can speak to raid on most of the healers
sinful copper
Lower keys is everyone butt pulling extra, no kicks/CCs, and no one knows mechanics. And if they die, it's healer fault
Rsham is easy and so is mistweaver
untold ether
Ok I have a question I'm ilvl 669 have all BiS gear at max heroic level plus a few mythic pieces at max and I play mountain thane. I never die in keys doing mostly 10-12's and my buddy i run with is telling me to switch to colossus for more dmg we just did a 10 cinderbrew and my overall dps was 2.43m I'm wondering if the switch is worth it post nerf and I'm not all too familiar with colossus because I've played mountain thane since the xpac launched and have only dabbled with colossus
nocturne spindle
its more dps yes
but its whatever
tell him to do more dps instead
it is worth it though
warm plinth
I agree. Its always the dps's fault anyway
untold ether
He plays windwalker monk and did 3.32m overall
warm plinth
Not even 4 mil? Smh
lusty grotto
Ok I have a question I'm ilvl 669 have all BiS gear at max heroic level plus a f...
colossus is around 20% more aoe dps
with little to no defensive compromises
but yeah obviously its entirely up to you
solid sun
I have found colossus to be more fun than thane
lusty grotto
its probably because we've played that flavor of prot since DF
at least thats how it is in my case
so its probably your case too Rhino
solid sun
Yeah
lusty grotto
its been a while since we've had a Revenge heavy prot flavor
basically since legion
solid sun
And revenge be smacking rn
Sometimes my friends say something along the lines of my revenge key breaking
But they’re just jealous because my revenge key is so mighty
lusty grotto
sharp gale
Yeah it is fresh air from the unstoppable force era
sharp olive
I'm sitting at 21k haste, is there a point to getting more?
sharp gale
Im comfy with my parry rating
lusty grotto
sharp gale
I think I have 35% parry it is insane
sharp gale
It is bdk dream
lofty warren
why cant buy weapons with M+ dingars?
nocturne spindle
just get drops 🙂
jagged gust
What's the tank threat modifier?
lusty grotto
hmm
jagged gust
I can't remember and now I'm further confused since the last buff
lusty grotto
i have no idea at this point tbh
lofty warren
Because no one cares about specific generic weps
but mythic ones are more ilvl and less of a pain in the butt to deal with crafted nonsense
sharp gale
After all these weeks you didn’t drop a wep in your vault ?
lofty warren
After all these weeks you didn’t drop a wep in your vault ?
not a single weapon i have 1x crafted and 1x hero
jagged gust
I found a quote from Nomer a year ago that says 650%
sharp gale
Idk what it means
jagged gust
815% maybe?
sharp gale
But why it has % on this one
jagged gust
Yeah ta lines up, cuz didn't threat get a 25% buff? If that was multiplicative?
sharp gale
Maybe just wowhead thing
jagged gust
-100%
sharp gale
What’s that ?
sharp gale
It is a major offensive cd, its just that it does no damage rn
lusty grotto
yea ig
sharp gale
Class tree capstones give more damage than ravager or bladestorm it is dumb
But I love fury gameplay on bandit (35% btw)
lofty warren
will the 1 button thing work in pvp?
like I want it to focus kick healer for me and other bs
sharp gale
Yes I guess, why wouldn’t it work
It will not auto switch targets I think
But it does the dream macro /cast [@target]
lofty warren
whats the diff between /cast @target vs just /cast [ability]
lofty warren
is that legal
sharp gale
Like imagine you can ravager / spear without your cursor
lofty warren
but where is the thought
sharp gale
Which thought ?
lofty warren
im off to go deplete a 14 cinder
sharp gale
Me too as prot
cerulean tusk
Herecy! But I wont blame ya
I am for sure going to use the 1 button macro if it works for weekly 10 boost keys tho
sharp gale
It worked for the keys I did with it in S1 / it was a fun project
cerulean tusk
same, s1, was very bored
sharp gale
Like tank keys with no shield block sources
frosty mango
lol watching the single button thing
It’s now 100% obvious
The delay isn’t to reduce its damage
The delay is because they are using an ai model probably and it needs time to calculate
You can see it doesn’t cycle to the next spell until it figures it out
sharp gale
Something can have multiple causes
cerulean tusk
It kind of got to calculate the best action based on all the mods after you did the action tho
so makes sense no matter what, that there is a delay as it figures it out
frosty mango
Seeing it action though it’s not nearly as heinous as I thought it would be
sharp gale
But if you are telling me having -20k haste debuff of gcd reduction isn’t damage nerf
Wtf
frosty mango
Oh it definitely is I’m saying that was probably not their primary reasoning
cerulean tusk
You might lose GCD value, but you gain - human error pressing wrong global minus
frosty mango
It’s almost certainly a design limitation they are spinning as something else
lusty grotto
even if the computational logic was instant they would put it on a delay
cause if they didn't EVERYONE WOULD USE IT
frosty mango
I don’t think they’d put a delay, I think they would use a stance to aura mod the damage
sharp gale
And if the .2 sec is not enough they will just hotfix to .3 etc
frosty mango
Using a delay to inhibit dps is not in line with their tuning knobs
cerulean tusk
it is 0.3 atm
lusty grotto
i disagree roid
cerulean tusk
soon to be 1sec
sharp gale
Idk the real number / it doesn’t affect me idc about it they can do whatever they want
sharp gale
They will hotfix it in less than 0.3 sec
lusty grotto
also btw
frosty mango
Now that I think about it more, I assume both new modes would use the same computation
frosty mango
So if the other mode has no delay my argument has no weight
lusty grotto
if anything they have AI making prio lists ala APL
sharp gale
It is just APL like hekili yeah
frosty mango
Doubt
round pendant
It's not ai lmao
lusty grotto
0.3 is no way enough time for something like ML to calculate shit for millions of players on the fly
its not that its impossible
sharp gale
Just the apl will have more info than hekili
lusty grotto
its just not cost effective
frosty mango
0.3 is no way enough time for something like ML to calculate shit for millions o...
That’s…..not how it works
frosty mango
You’re thinking more in terms of an llm
Something like this is not an llm
We can’t talk about this here the channel will burn up
Way too nerdy
round pendant
Using anything other than APLs would be dumb
Not to mention they asked for feedback on what the rotations should be
sharp gale
And they said LIKE hekili
frosty mango
They also said they were done with borrowed power alas
round pendant
The delay you're seeing is probably just that it doesn't make the new suggestion until your gcd is up
lusty grotto
youre really dooming about this Roid
sharp gale
The delay you're seeing is probably just that it doesn't make the new suggestion...
And to account for the time reaction of the player
frosty mango
youre really dooming about this Roid
I literally just said it looked way less bad than I thought
lusty grotto
i see
sharp gale
He needs 0.3 more sec to know he has to press the same button
frosty mango
The way it looks in the video doesn’t look offensive at all
cerulean tusk
why would it be?
frosty mango
Less offensive?