protection

[chilly brook]

That boss is pure aids

[elfin ginkgo]

Sorry, is colossus better? I just followed the WoWhead guide. I am ilvl 620 and a big noob

[chilly brook]

They’re both competitive tbh

You can do 17s in thane

It’s just worse damage

For similar results

[strong forum]

theres a breakdown on wowhead aswell

under the "hero talents"

[chilly brook]

Like considerably worse damage

[strong forum]

they both have pros and cons

[elfin ginkgo]

so is there an advantage of going thane?

[chilly brook]

I mean theoretically better at magic intake?

[elfin ginkgo]

opkay ill look at the stuff moratur referenced

[chilly brook]

Better snap threat

Easier playstyle I guess?

You like clapping?

Idk I like both sometimes I just send a key as thane for funsies

[elfin ginkgo]

ill read up on the other one to check

[lofty warren]

Thane used to be more defensive idk about now

[chilly brook]

It technically is

I just don’t know how much of it is actually perceptible/matters

[raw parcel]

Anodized deflectors showed up in an Arms spec vault for SOME REASON...

I assume even at myth level, it's better to use hero track actual bracers?

sigh Gotta take a socket this week. I hate it.

[plush tendon]

Col is 5% bigger then Thane

so its instantly BiS

also, its more fun

[solemn depot]

citation needed

i find the stress-free nature of thane more fun

[plush tendon]

I get bored of pressing clap

like every other GCD

Thane is like DF Prot War and Col is more like SL Prot War

and I prefer the later

[forest sluice]

Me like dmg

[slender bison]

Well you better press something, Brewmasters are back to steal your keys this week

[forest sluice]

Me like higher number

[lusty grotto]

thane = BFA prot, colossus = Legion prot

[forest sluice]

Legion anything > bfa anything

[lusty grotto]

not really

[forest sluice]

Besides fire mage in nyalotha

[lusty grotto]

bfa prot was good

better than legion prot

but in this case its backwards

[forest sluice]

Legion goated I will not hear this slander

[plush tendon]

idk, BFA prot hit diffy

back then

[slender bison]

My prot is bigger than yours

[forest sluice]

Bfa prot when ignore pain was on the gcd was big oof

[plush tendon]

true

but S2->S4 Prot War

was pretty damn fun

[lusty grotto]

gcd ip didnt make a difference when we could still parse zul for giga damage

in fact

its not what was bad

[plush tendon]

GCD on IP was removed in S1 of BFA

didnt last long

[lusty grotto]

not blocking projectiles was the bad part

[plush tendon]

^ true

also a S1 change

plus we had some decent Azerite traits

[lusty grotto]

yes, i know thats why im mentioning it

[plush tendon]

especially compared to my sad bdk

[lusty grotto]

hello augusto do you know who youre talking with

[plush tendon]

a rat in a hat

[forest sluice]

A class discord demon apparently

[lusty grotto]

ok, just making sure

[plush tendon]

triple Bastion of Might

and Thunderlords back in BFa

[lusty grotto]

1 dc

[plush tendon]

vision of perfection

[lusty grotto]

3 bom

[slender bison]

They really need to make Anger Management default prot passive. It's ridiculous

[plush tendon]

I mean, it basically is

[lusty grotto]

i agree

[slender bison]

Waste of point

[lusty grotto]

but first

remove stances

[slender bison]

Yes

[lusty grotto]

and then immediately after, make AM baseline

[plush tendon]

I dont think they have to make AM baseline

id rather they just rebalance the shit at the bottom

[slender bison]

And delete left half of warrior tree. It's no pick for 2 expacs now

Except roar

And shattered throw meme for pvp

[lusty grotto]

they should at least revisit wrecking

and leave shattering as is for pvp

[pallid quiver]

they should make shattering baseline, ad if you break a pally bubble with it, their character gets deleted

[slender bison]

Like comparing to other classes there's not much to choose. It's always cookie cutter build. Sidearm with 30k damage lmao

It was barely ok in DF

[slender bison]

This. If you break a bubble, your next sub is free

[long bronze]

honestly just add all the april fools shouting stuff

[slender bison]

Lots of tech debt in the priest talents too. Passive that heals for 30k when procd

Bloodborne was meant for bleed builds but we never picked it since DF alpha PTR

[lethal beacon]

!talents

[slender bison]

Honed Reflexes - If you do 20 shield walls and pummels, the 21st is free

Jesus

[lusty grotto]

bloodborne is not revelevant now

because bleeds are nerfed

its not "since DF alpha PTR"

we just didnt have a lot of options to swap to it

[warm plinth]

He wasn't saying it was irrelevant tbf. Just that we didn't pick it.

[lusty grotto]

well it wasnt a standard pick but it was still something that you could get

its output was good

[versed snow]

oh god the decision

[long bronze]

this is sarcasm for sure

[hardy snow]

choice is obvious if you dont have myth helm yet

[lusty grotto]

feels pretty simple to me

[long bronze]

a very good item, or an item that should be banished to the shadow realm

[versed snow]

I haven't seen the mud ever

[long bronze]

decisions decisions

consider yourself lucky

[remote dawn]

short question: why playing not Indomitable? none use it?^^

[lusty grotto]

cause it sucks

[long bronze]

it provides meaningless amounts of healing when you could pick up a good talent instead

[remote dawn]

ok 👍🏻 how much overall heal in a 10 key is normaly - self heal

[dusky canopy]

69.420% avg

[remote dawn]

hö? 🤣

[lusty grotto]

it doesnt matter

so brew is making numbers up

[neon elk]

Overal healing isnt a metric u follow or care about , it depends on X things and wont change a thing in the end . Did u die or no, thats important

[lusty grotto]

is your sb uptime close to 100%

thats important

[remote dawn]

kk merci

[cerulean tusk]

First time I seen someone ask about Pwarrior overhealing

[lusty grotto]

certainly not rare

[cerulean tusk]

Whii u change name?

Rat in a hat, you trying to rebrand?

I dont like change

[lusty grotto]

im just making a poddyc reference

[cerulean tusk]

[solid sun]

I don’t wanna know which player I am that they named on that episode

Probably one of the not kind ones

[jagged gust]

Is having a ginger with a beard a necessity in the podcast world?

[solemn depot]

wtf

[lusty grotto]

yes

[fathom night]

Hey, does the tome trinket require you to be actively tanking to be good for dps? I am asking, because on some fights my DK takes most of the tanking while I do other stuff 🤔

[lusty grotto]

not actively tanking actually improves it

cause it swaps on damage taken

so less micromanagement

[fathom night]

ooh, I see, thanks! I am a bit confused as to how it works I guess, since I thought it deals damage when I am hit

[lusty grotto]

you can just chill in sword mode forever with little manual swaps

oh

[fathom night]

sounds good 🙂

[lusty grotto]

i see what you mean

but no, it gives you around 3k crit so its always good regardless of damage

[fathom night]

but 3k crit alone is not a strong trinket 😄

[lusty grotto]

there's 2 stickies about it

but the damage/crit shouldnt come out on damage taken

im pretty sure but i could be wrong

[fathom night]

okie, I deal damage and then it can also deal damage

so this is actually good indeed

[lusty grotto]

[sudden lynx]

How do you guys best deal with motherlode third boss (Rixxa Fluxflame)? I've not died to her yet but the magic AA damage is abhorrent

[lusty grotto]

spell block

[tacit smelt]

Spellblock

[ruby musk]

Press ignore pain / spell block and cry

[lusty grotto]

and liberal use of wall + SR

[sudden lynx]

Alright that's what I've been doing as well, guess it really is just that much damage then

[lusty grotto]

its not constant at least

so you should always have a cd ready for the barrage

[sudden lynx]

Wait I've not been reflecting it, didn't know you could

[tacit smelt]

No

[sudden lynx]

Yeah I can probably rotate CDs better as well

[tacit smelt]

It gives 25% magic dr

[sudden lynx]

Oh right I forgot they changed that like ages ago

[lusty grotto]

yeah we mentioned it due to the MDR

[sudden lynx]

You get the DR even if you don't reflect now

All good tips, ty

Just did a +10 ML and that was the only pain point

[mighty valley]

used to be actually reflecting REMOVED the dr

very silly

[sudden lynx]

Yeah you got one or the other

But you'd get the DR if reflect ran out without being used iirc

[lusty grotto]

you get the DR regardless

[tacit smelt]

On my 14s for that boss all I only use spell block to start off the fight and with my usual rotation and teir proc I don't find myself popping wall

[sudden lynx]

Now yeah

[lusty grotto]

the DR + not fading at reflect came out at the exact same time

DF

there wasnt one or the other

there was no MDR with Reflective Plating back in legion

[sudden lynx]

Really? What do you do when you don't have spell block up and she shoots again

Just thug it out

[tacit smelt]

To be honest to God with you I'm doing my DPS rotation and I don't see my health dropping so I'm oblivious

I should go run and log a 10 run so you can see, but that'll have to wait a few hours

But I can chalk it up to punish stacking, and demo shouts with decent ip's

[lusty grotto]

yeah that might cover it

at that level

[sudden lynx]

No worries it's not that big of a deal tbh

Like I said I haven't died to it or anything

Mainly wanted to see if there was some kind of tech I've missed

I really dislike ML so I've done very few runs and know very little about it lol

[tacit smelt]

You can spell reflect the auto on last boss though

[sudden lynx]

Big

I should just get the WA but it's kinda chill to just look at cast bars and see what's reflectable for yourself

[tacit smelt]

Just be wary of spell queue for boss abilities so you don't waste a SR

[sudden lynx]

Yeah np that

[tacit smelt]

I suggest you look at the pins at Sense's spell reflect spreadsheet, it'll help

[mighty valley]

the %dr definitely existed during shadowlands and faded when you reflected something 🤓

[novel laurel]

guys can i use your help...
I got the 658 upgrade crest and not sure if to craft the weapon or shield? is shield better even though mine is already higher track than wep currently?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sPZE8rAwBGRjknn1hCmw5o

[tacit smelt]

It was in SL in which they also reduce the CD on SR and gave it the extra 5% Dr

[sudden lynx]

Idk I just looked quickly at wowhead changelogs and the DR came in like 7.0.1 whenever that is

But it's really not that big a deal I'd completely forgotten the DR was even independent of the reflect these days

[pearl sinew]

Hey all, really stuck on this vault, got the following Mythic track all > Wicked Loop, Gloves, and Weapon (Ihave crafted weapon). Gloves have leech, but wicked loop is bis as well no?

[chilly brook]

I don't want to talk about how long it took me to get to this point

[lusty grotto]

i stand corrected

[lusty grotto]

eh weapon or gloves

do you raid? if you do, do you clear myth cauldron? if you dont pick gloves

[pearl sinew]

I do not raid no.

[lusty grotto]

pick gloves

[pearl sinew]

Ok cool, will do! Thanks so much

[oak ivy]

how do you fix burnout

[lusty grotto]

touch grass

a lot

[mighty valley]

go fucking crazy on that grass

[lusty grotto]

and play other games as well

[novel laurel]

guys when gearing your war, would you first craft shield or weapon with the crests ?

[lusty grotto]

shield

[novel laurel]

ty

and embelishment?

[lusty grotto]

whatever you want, youll replace it afterwards

can be without as well

[deep wharf]

Are we rocking BoB , what’s the deal with that on Scott lol

[lusty grotto]

what in the everloving fuck

[novel laurel]

ty

[deep wharf]

Right

[mighty valley]

what is BoB

[lofty warren]

Did blizz say why no war changes?

[mighty valley]

no, they don't typically explain when things don't happen

[solemn depot]

the spec used for vault is really only important for trinkets and weapons, right?

[mighty valley]

yeah, in a lot of seasons the tank trinkets kinda suck and we want to cut them from the pool

there are good ones this season though

[solemn depot]

i'm wondering whether to loot as prot or arms/fury with 1 hc raid slot and 2 m10 slots
I still have champ tier hat and gloves, veteran boots (and am mostly hoping for a myth hat
decent maxed champion trinkets (the gally and stix ones), which are doing me fine r/n
I plan on also dpsing, but already have a 675 2h for arms and a 675 + 665 2h for fury (which i personally dislike)

1h/shield are 675

[lofty warren]

Enjoy your f tier trinket

[deep wharf]

Binding of binding ring

[solemn depot]

i have literally gotten 0 other decent trinket drops in 23 m+ runs this week. even champion ones. i have kujo's flame vents and viscera of coalesced hatred, which are pretty garbage

[mighty valley]

i'd prob stick to prot? can get tome/seaforium from those m+ vault slots

[foggy skiff]

I hate to poke fun, but I just got a Mythic Pacemaker in my vault today lol

[warm venture]

even though stats are sub optimal, grabbing this is better than sockets right ?

and upgrading it

[solemn depot]

lucky you, hope i get it too because that'd be great for both prot and arms

[mighty valley]

yeah, ilvl is king here, plus it does have some haste

[solemn depot]

strength is not suboptimal

[warm venture]

tyty

[solemn depot]

tome you just keep in crit all the time, right?

[mighty valley]

yeah, when it flips to defense mode, you flip it right back

[solemn depot]

another cursed button to press

[mighty valley]

you don't have to press it often haha

[solemn depot]

isn't it every 35 secs?

also, if you have it, could you take a screenshot of the crit effect/buff? it's not listed on wowhead or in-game

[mighty valley]

someone did earlier, lemme look

[buoyant sparrow]

Hows Modular Platinum Plating? Not good? Just use DPS trinkets?

[solemn depot]

is that 2943 per stack, up to 50? nvm, the stacks just determine when it flips

[frosty mango]

No, it’s 2943 while in sword mode and when you use the on-use to go to sword mode, that value is doubled

For 30s or whatever it is

[solemn depot]

right.. so a permanent 6k crit

[frosty mango]

Perma 3k and partial 6k

[solemn depot]

and this is better than 5.5k or however much a 678 trinket has strength?

[frosty mango]

Yes because you also get the proc

But that much secondary stat with a high uptime is very powerful

Always has been

Even back in the arcanocrystal days

[old flame]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/us/garrosh/ilyamurometz

I want that trinket, but I also want that chest..

[urban portal]

you can get chest any time

you cant say the same about the tome

[lusty grotto]

not that specific chest

thats a tough call

[solemn depot]

not everyone is doing mythic raids?

[lusty grotto]

thats not it

its the perfect stat chest

[solemn depot]

oh wait, chest should be non-tier so can be crafted at 675 too

[lusty grotto]

that's entirely true

[old flame]

simming now, I kinda think it might be tome, my trinkets aren't the stongest

[lusty grotto]

you arent wrong in any pick tbh

but considering you can craft a chest

i would lean to tome

[urban portal]

specific trinket>specific chest

optimizing substats on 1 armor piece isnt gonna change anything

[lusty grotto]

there's just so much more trinkets in the pool than chests (there are only 4 chests)

so its more likely chest will show up again

[old flame]

yeah, i'm guessing that's going to be the play. waiting on the sim to spit back an answer, if it's close i'll probably go trinket

[lusty grotto]

hope youre simming with the pinned APL

[mighty valley]

make sure you’re doing the funky tome sim

hmm nim’s wording was clearer AND faster

[old flame]

oh shit, forgot about that

[lusty grotto]

but yours is funnier

[mighty valley]

live laugh love

[frosty mango]

Good chance you see a mythic chest if you raid

You will almost certainly never see another mythic tome

[lusty grotto]

theres only 2 chests in raid

and im pretty sure ilya doesnt raid

at least not mythic

anyway he's good, he should pick the tome

[solemn depot]

okay, i'm slightly confused. maybe i did something wrong. i simmed my current character (with my meh 658 trinkets) with a manually added 678 seaforium pacemaker and 678 tome in my "bags"
i used the custom APL
I simmed for 5-dummy cleave as colossus
it says pacemaker is ahead?

[lusty grotto]

sim st

[solemn depot]

well he does have the first vault slot for mythic raiding

[lusty grotto]

first 2 dont drop chests

[solemn depot]

fair

[lusty grotto]

its sprocket and mugzee

well and technically gally

[solemn depot]

okay so what does this mean for m+, exactly

[lusty grotto]

it means it loses a bit of value

because of constant damage taken flips it

[solemn depot]

is the flip off the GCD?

i thought the APL assumes perfect flipping to crit

[lusty grotto]

mobs dont have gcd

[solemn depot]

the flip does have an ICD of 37.5s tho

[lusty grotto]

its .7% lower, thats pretty much nothing plus it has a defensive side

[urban portal]

Also did you use the tome apl

[solemn depot]

i did, and said i did
probably not a problem i'm going to have tomorrow, but strictly for m+ (and maybe hc raiding) would the choice still be myth tome over pacemaker?

[lusty grotto]

i would use it yes

but if youre trying to justify not having a use and/or tracking a trinket... just go with pacemaker

[solemn depot]

one more WA for the pile. activating the trinket is off GCD, right? so i can just have something shout "flip it" at me and press a button and have more or less permanent uptime

[lusty grotto]

no need for justification

knew it

[solemn depot]

man there's so many fucking buttons to press and i'm still learning
i was amazed that i managed to time a 10 brewery as colossus, really
any button i don't need to press is a blessing
i am honest to god thinking of dropping ravager for disrupting shout just for ease of use (and because DS is very nice in a bunch of dungeons)

[lusty grotto]

you do you

[solemn depot]

let's see what the vault gods bless me with tomorrow
i have 2 shots at myth track drops

[frosty mango]

I don’t think there’s a lot of buttons

Just gotta press the ones you do have a lot

Dropping ravager isn’t a terrible play though it’s common at the high end

Though you may struggle to gather without it while you learn how to aim revenge

[solid sun]

I can’t see myself ever dropping ravager

[mighty valley]

i was once a ravager hater

now I’d be sad to lose it

even if we do have too many offensive CDs

[frosty mango]

I drop ravager for bsv in some keys

[lusty grotto]

the only thing i hate about ravager is your targetting reticule or cursor macro just going in the ceiling, but that's every season

[frosty mango]

Just do @ player

[lusty grotto]

nah i like the reticule

[frosty mango]

Technically loses some flexibility but it’s better than it being in the ceiling half the time you press it

Motherlode last boss is the worst

[mighty valley]

being able to throw it pre charge is half of why I like it

[lusty grotto]

im not asking for suggestions lol

[sharp olive]

I'm going to gear a warrior up, is there catch up gear out now?
Or later date?

[lusty grotto]

im just saying the game sucks for it

[frosty mango]

Too bad we’re giving them

We are the kings of unsolicited advice

[mighty valley]

these days you can always do delves for starter gear

[solemn depot]

i read as much, i would strictly do that as thane tbh

[lusty grotto]

but probably not as much as having shadow crash do it

sorry i meant to put that next to my message

but ADHD

[solid sun]

Probably worse unsolicited things to be kings of, all things considered

[lusty grotto]

unsolicit dn

[old flame]

Tome won even without the code

that's somethin for sure

[lusty grotto]

[round cliff]

to this day im too lazy to sim tome properly

still hasnt been beat

my trinket luck is shit

[granite briar]

If I wanted to take interrupting shout, what talent should I drop? using these talents for M+

CkEAO9DBjZzKcjSu6RJDto0RCKGAAAAmZmxMzMYWmZZmZmtFGjZaMLjZYsMmZGWmZGmBDDAAAAAAMzAAsstBAsYGDLkBmhFawC

I'm assuming it would just be show of force?

[round cliff]

well for one u should drop indom

its worthless to us

but yes you'd drop show of force

and u dont have rumbling earth, which is weird if you want to take interrupting shout because ur already not maximizing ur stops

[granite briar]

Gotcha Idk why I don't have that either, thanks for checking up on it

[round cliff]

drop the +30 rage talent or intervene for it

idc what anyone says u dont need intervene

[granite briar]

lol I use it like crazy for dps

[round cliff]

healer problem

[granite briar]

LOL alrighty sounds g

tyvm

[round cliff]

be careful with this too

intervene is very very very specific w/ what it does

if ur using it a LOT theres a high chance its doing literally nothing

theres very little content where anyone except the tank is taking melee hits

unless they rip aggro

xd

[granite briar]

I don't do it often, but when I see them taking a shit ton of damage, or are low and I know damage's about to go out, I'll do it to help them out.

that makes sense

[round cliff]

yea then its likely doing nothing

intervene specifically intercepts MELEE HITS

which dont happen very much

if ur not a tank

[granite briar]

Yeah that makes total sense

what about on priory w/ the potshots?

[round cliff]

not actually sure?

im an intervene hater i dont keep myself updated on what it can do

[granite briar]

I have a hard time relying on groupmates to keep themselves alive, so I do my best to help 'em

but I understand if what I'm doing actually isn't helping as much as running the other talents

[round cliff]

ur on the pipeline to becoming a prot pally main

be careful

[granite briar]

ok i hate my dps nvm

fuck em healer problem

[round cliff]

real shit

[granite briar]

o7

[wintry wagon]

how does the gang feel about the viscera trinket

[haughty scroll]

when ive used it its done a lot less damage then tome

[granite briar]

tome feels so good if you have a wa to tell you when to swap it idk why

swapping it from armor to dps just triggers the dopamine in my brain for no reason

[prisma crane]

is it worth having a single mastery/vers gem for the extra 2 colors for the crit dmg gem?

[frosty mango]

Isn’t it melee and ranged

[vivid lantern]

I take the movement speed gem anyway, gotta zoom zoom. Also 108% movement speed feels better than the tiny amount of crit.

[lusty grotto]

yes

[frosty mango]

Fairly sure intervene is melee AND ranged because you can intervene projectiles like fireballs

[lusty grotto]

hmm no

shots yes

fireballs no

[frosty mango]

Can’t you intervene/reflect

[lusty grotto]

absolutely not

in tbc you could

any other expansion, no

[frosty mango]

Did that change since last season or were the few instances im thinking of not considered spells

[vivid lantern]

Intervene is good for the mini boss in ToP, you can take the hit with bleed for healer. But I think it is super niche.

[frosty mango]

Like the first boss in nec wake

[lusty grotto]

you reflected the frontal

it was just a weird implementation

that is not the norm

[frosty mango]

I know it works on sharpshooters too in priory

[lusty grotto]

yeah its physical stuff

[frosty mango]

Intervening healer during gather is a good play

[lusty grotto]

its useful on arbalests too as a hail mary

sharpshooters, arbalests, any physical shot really

even mole rocks

[frosty mango]

Can you intervene the axe throw on the candle boss?

[lusty grotto]

but theres no reason to do so

[prisma crane]

you can stand in front of it

[frosty mango]

Yes but can I

[prisma crane]

unlikely

[lusty grotto]

probably

if its physical

[frosty mango]

Like if I intervene then charge back to boss will it hit me regardless of where the person is standing

[prisma crane]

i dont believe you can intervene projectiles

[frosty mango]

Isn’t a ranged attack a projectile?

[prisma crane]

like ACTUAL objects, not stuff like gun shots

[lusty grotto]

it depends on projectiles

shots are instant no travel time

[frosty mango]

Gonna need to science this tonight

[lusty grotto]

those are 100% covered

projectiles with travel time are.... a big maybe

just test on a moletender

[prisma crane]

it has an arrow as well

i seriously doubt it works

[frosty mango]

That’s why I wanna know

[prisma crane]

that would completely circumvent the mechanic

[lusty grotto]

time to science

[frosty mango]

If I intervene does the arrow still work

[lusty grotto]

it should

[prisma crane]

though tbh there's no point in doing it anyways since you want to clear the puddles

[sand torrent]

I use intervene to avoid the tank blast at the last boss in rookery

[lusty grotto]

intevene doesnt remove the debuff

[frosty mango]

We were so busy asking whether we should we never stopped to ask whether we could

[lusty grotto]

oh i adressed that

[frosty mango]

Top tier troll potential if it does work

[lusty grotto]

i mean its for science

perfect excuse

[frosty mango]

Although nothing tops gripping people into traffic in raid this tier

Priests are eating good

[crisp ocean]

When tanking dungeons as prot is it bad to do big pulls ?

[lofty warren]

im scared to be sharing the highway with you

[lusty grotto]

i gotta be honest, that was funny

[fossil glade]

anyone got any tips on how to get the stacks off of you quickly on mug'

mug'zee as a prot warrior

[lusty grotto]

be human

or spell warding

are you talking myth?

you can leap it out

movement speed

etc

steps inside the puddles dont count

intervene

etc

[small steeple]

When did Nome take over the Wowhead prot warrior guide? I remember it used to be llarold at the start of DF

[prisma crane]

end of DF iirc

that or start of TWW

[sullen ginkgo]

people are sleepin on mountain thaine so hard

[warm plinth]

@prisma crane Look who decided to grace us with his presence smh

Where have you been young man

[lusty grotto]

he pops in from time to time

[tacit smelt]

No, it just depends on what the pull consists of and if you communicate with your group about your pulls (strictly speaking from m+ perspective)

[sullen ginkgo]

survivability is an issue for prot wars in high end keys so thats why we arnt meta, hitting ignore pain then instantly having it go away sucks but on mountain thaine in 16's it lowkey kinda cooks with the rage gen

[tacit smelt]

*check my message above , didn't select reply in it

[lusty grotto]

yes ignore pain makes up for defensiveness

good logic

[warm plinth]

Here we go

[sullen ginkgo]

not in 16s

[lusty grotto]

a 1.8m shield

lowkey kinda cooks

[sullen ginkgo]

even without tank busters you get railed on high keys

[lusty grotto]

thats why they are high keys

[prisma crane]

casual AF, and just kinda chillin, decided to care at least enough to get 3k this season, so i still have to do that, but im in no rush, 2700 atm

[sullen ginkgo]

since we have no self healing our only issue turns into survivability, give up some of the dmg for mountain thain and your survivability shoots up alot more since your not as rage starved

[lusty grotto]

youre vastly overestimating IP's contribution to survivability

[sullen ginkgo]

not really it dissapears instantly from literally everything and then your rage starved or you dont IP and use revenge and hope for a SS proc

[lusty grotto]

its kinda wild that whenever there's a claim like this

its always about IP

instead of Thane's passive defenses

[sullen ginkgo]

colossus passive defensives are almost the same lmao

[warm plinth]

In two +17 Motherlode, Sense did 617k HPS, with IP being 331.4k of that. The thane warrior (chinese player) did 634.7k HPS, with IP being 304k of it.

[lusty grotto]

Fight through the Flames, Keep your Feet on the Ground, Burst of Power = triple SS turning into 3 punish stacks,

you know theyre full of shit cause they mention IP

and not the other stuff that actually makes a fucking difference

IP IP

lmao

[cerulean crystal]

Bro... the mechanic this week is just dps a mob and people can't do it

am I going crazy or are people having similar issues in M+ right now?

[lusty grotto]

its fine Ghash, could be 1 guying

besides nobody ever said Thane was unplayable

if anything we've said its viable

[prisma crane]

if you dont mark shit with a skull, players wont target it, even then it's not an auto success

[lusty grotto]

its just, not worth dumping a whole side of it for a very debatable defensiveness difference

[cerulean crystal]

But... surely people know that it's just a dps thing right like just hit the mob? three groups in a row in 10+'s they aren't doing it lmao

[prisma crane]

you'd be shocked how many people arent very situationally aware

[warm plinth]

I saw a video a few months back where a person walked across the road, turned around to yell back at someone, and walked straight into the side of a passing truck when they turned back around. Top notch awareness

[lusty grotto]

eek

[warm plinth]

They just bounced off fortunately but how are you that unaware of your surroundings

[lusty grotto]

sometimes youre just thinking of other things

[vivid lantern]

It would be nice if the intervene shield for thane was actually decent. Would be a cool external. Like 15% warriors HP as a shield or something it is pretty weak currently.
Similar with some kind of party scaling for rallying cry it feels kinda crap atm.

[lusty grotto]

it would be nice if we got safeguard back instead

for both hero specs

but alas

[vivid lantern]

Agreed.

[slender bison]

It's more like 4x Armor which is roughly 500k magic shield every 30 seconds. The real deal of Intervene is as a 3rd charge to escape pesky boss ToP boss AOEs or Priory castigation zone etc. Intervene works only vs white trash damage. ToP arbalest casting shots go through. Priory snipers also go through. It's kinda lame and out of date

Dev notes said that warr is in a good spot, so I'm skeptical we'll get anything until 11.2

[wooden widget]

I kinda miss the legendaries from shadowlands

[lusty grotto]

why

[vivid lantern]

500k is nothing. 2-3 million would be more reasonable at current hp amounts.

[lusty grotto]

reprisal is baked into SC

with Chamion's bulwark

[slender bison]

Yes. You basically always spec for MT for dual storm bolts

[wooden widget]

I miss the small changes they made to play

[vivid lantern]

Yup.

[lusty grotto]

you have everything we used in SL right now

[wooden widget]

I don’t mean now. Like new ones would be cool

[lusty grotto]

except for banner

are you sure youre not

confusing with legion ones?

[wooden widget]

I mean the idea. Not the power from them

Banner now would be awesome tho

[lusty grotto]

banner, reprisal, outburst, we have 2 of those right now

we didnt play any other leggos

it was reprisal and the covenenant one

thats it

which goes into banner

legion had more options

[wooden widget]

Banner > spear long live necrolord

[lusty grotto]

plus artifact traits

plus safeguard

[wooden widget]

I didn’t play legion I wish I did

Those also seem cool

[warm plinth]

Legion was fun. The legendary system was really obnoxious at first though; it didn't get tolerable until later in the expansion

[lusty grotto]

dont worry, youll get a chance when classic reaches legion

[wooden widget]

[lusty grotto]

and since every classic implementation is last patch, im sure they will have the leggo vendor version

so painless legion

[slender bison]

Can't wait to farm 1 gorillion artifact power for 3 item levels

[lusty grotto]

THD will be happy, the rest wont

even though, if its last patch, AP gains are higher

so he will probably complain

[warm plinth]

Fleks too or w/e his name is

[lusty grotto]

and apb 😉

[warm plinth]

The two degenerate AP farmers

[fallow fern]

tome?

[warm plinth]

[lusty grotto]

yea

ghash did you see my vault today

[warm plinth]

No sir

[lusty grotto]

are you ready for the worst vault youve ever seen

[slender bison]

Show us

[slender bison]

Sick cloak transmogs

[lusty grotto]

which i can get from raid

neck? i have crafted

gloves? i have myth legs bagged that i catalyzed today

okay then

so im not picking anything until raid later this week

c:

[slender bison]

Honestly one reason I don't craft is because I lose the dopamine drip in such situations. So usually I always get something good from the casino

[warm plinth]

Just don't have a vault like me!

[lusty grotto]

what did you get

[slender bison]

The other reason is that I have 50k gold total for M+ repairs

[lusty grotto]

thats why joining a guild is 🧑‍🍳 💋

free repairs

for everything else

[warm plinth]

nothing, didn't play last week

[slender bison]

I thought you were joining for lower hearth cd?

[lusty grotto]

there's this guy

[warm plinth]

@lusty grotto we can faceswap now; it's what we always dreamed of

[lusty grotto]

oh boy

[warm plinth]

LOL, what

[warm plinth]

I used the roast option on this

[round cliff]

idk how people make gold without cross gambling

that's the true purpose of a guild

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/236578858390913024/1361874007082664197/image.png?ex=68005781&is=67ff0601&hm=3772f0acc7a47857415407091e057962aa816fb5bd5d9a6905cb8cc3ed871131& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/236578858390913024/1361874986167435294/image.png?ex=6800586b&is=67ff06eb&hm=ee08df545ea6a2dd5d543724215baaf6d7880c7cae3f0f1c42f460265d59947e& tonight alone recouped my expac costs so far

[lusty grotto]

lol

i lost 110k last raid

[round cliff]

99% of gamblers quit before they win big

[lusty grotto]

ah yes

sunk cost fallacy

[round cliff]

i just say "the house always wins' and then i roll 90k or higher on my 100k gambles

try that if ur hosting

[round cliff]

it really is that simple

idk why more people don't do this

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/806664976633823263/1356511391686856825/its_uncanny_how_easy_it_is.gif

[lusty grotto]

lol sure sure

[warm plinth]

That's why I'm a billionaire

Just took $1 to the casino, ez

[warm venture]

did they change tome of light's devotion? You can have crit up almost 100% now
trinket doesn't go on CD when it flips over anymore

[light drift]

What should i take from vault? thinking about one of the trinkets, or taking weapon so i can move my crafted to boots or writst.

[slender bison]

Myth legs big stats

Casino knew I wanted a cool cloak transmog. At least its haste/crit so I can ditch Trashmaster

Not sure about that trinket

Maybe good for 15s+

[jagged gust]

signet's not a bad trinket at all

but that 2min cd does indeed suck

[slender bison]

Nah, will roll with heroic tome/pace

Now got 4% versa and 27% crit. Taskmaster Askari has no chance at a bleed

[round cliff]

losing my shit at the last 4chan post before the servers got nuked

a poetic end

[icy mist]

lads is the dmg dif between mountain and colossus big in m+

[lofty glen]

For me its a massif diff. MT I dont get over 1-1,2 while i am doing 2-2,5 Mio overall with colo

[round cliff]

not just for u

colossus is far and away better, simple as

[indigo prairie]

any advice on what to take here?

or is it just bricked

[round cliff]

have u already picked?

[indigo prairie]

nah

[round cliff]

amulet is bis neck if u dont already have a good one, even tho its heroic

but just sim

[halcyon idol]

same here pls https://raider.io/characters/us/proudmoore/Dwarfgoober?utm_source=addon

[indigo prairie]

ok yea i have the cindybrew one rn

[round cliff]

not a big enough upgrade

same stats

if theres no obvious track upgrades just take sockets tbh

[indigo prairie]

will do

ty

[round cliff]

and if ur items are all shit, dont use those sockets

save em for when u get stuff u wont replace until s3

myth track tier/bis trinkets/etc

[halcyon idol]

can someone help me choose?

[neon elk]

Do u have myth shield?

Och its not mythic wait

[tawdry dirge]

how bad is eye of kezan in m+

[halcyon idol]

i have the same shield but M, and champ 8/8

[round cliff]

not

if you chainpull enough to keep it up

[tawdry dirge]

ah okay so not a super bad choice

my other option is that kujos

sims in dungeon slice and patchwerk says EYE is bigger upgrade

but reality might often look diffrent 😄

[fast oracle]

so I was just looking at the logs for some of the top raid tanks on wl.com and their IP/SB uptimes are around 60-ish %

are their healers just goated and that's why they can dump all that rage into damage

or am I missing something?

[jagged pier]

well if your talking about raid

u arent tanking all the time

[fast oracle]

true but their graphs are pretty flat

[tawdry dirge]

that is true but SB uptime should be still high

its a dps buff after all

[fast oracle]

their damage output is pretty consistent other than lust/intermission phases

[solid sun]

What if, instead of spending rage on SB when you aren’t the active tank, you pressed more revenges

[fast oracle]

i'm just wondering if it's a rotational thing i'm getting wrong

because SB buffs SS so keeping it up makes sense?

IP no, but SB yes

[jagged pier]

your looking to granually are u even running the same talents as the top ppl?

unlikely, they are likely playing the execute talents at least on the first few

[fast oracle]

similar ilvl and talents

[jagged pier]

are u looking at tiep set procs?

[fast oracle]

I've started using the juggernaut build

[jagged pier]

right but that doesnt mean u should

if your progging

thats the dumbest thing in the world

[fast oracle]

we're not

[solid sun]

Last time I got a log reviewed and I saw a discussion in here, the advice given was you don’t need to press SB when you aren’t the active tank

And you can press revenge instead

[fast oracle]

I'll log tonight and we'll see

[spark zealot]

Morning guys, is there an idiots guide to simming Tome anywhere? Got myth track in the vault but already have hc house of cards and myth viscera

[cerulean tusk]

Should be in the pins

[spark zealot]

so it is, that was easy. ta

[bright plume]

Got Heroic Knuckles and myth haste vers ring. Currently wearing heroic weapon and the same ring heroic track. What would u guys pick for keys?

[spark zealot]

personally I would take ring, mainly because it's hardest to get it seems for me

[neon elk]

I would take ring ( if you can play around it stats wise) because its mythic item and u wont swap that for looooong time , hc knuckles is whatever and on par with every other hc wep

[lean yoke]

I have 665 Seaforium as Trinket#1. Would you pair it with 665 Funhouse lens or 678 Priory Signet? (M+ mostly)

[neon elk]

Simable but i dislike signet

[round thicket]

Does it happens to you to not have time to spam Revenge but have to use rage for IP ? Especially on big pulls, even with shield block up my IP dissapear very fast and dont have time to spam revenge. Should i do something wrong ?

[neon elk]

Dont worry that much about ip unless its very specific scenario ( magic dots or heavy bleeds )

[sharp gale]

You never stop casting gcd, you can drop a def cd it would do way more than 1 -2 IP you would cast before rage starved

[remote dawn]

Hi, if I only get about 87% uptime from shield block with Into the Fray, am I bad?

Or is it really bad if I play with heavy rep?

[marble shadow]

Hi guys, am I overthinking this? Best to opt for socket or should I go for the axe/belt? For instance, I have a champ 8/8 heaviestweight title belt and the crafted sword at 675.

[sharp gale]

You can also mass stun / it can be a def cd

[sharp gale]

Depends on your haste for ITF, you lose 7% dps with HR so I wouldn’t hesitate taking HR if I don’t have enough haste and doing higher content

[remote dawn]

so with IF and haste flask i have around 49%

[neon elk]

What your rating?

[marble shadow]

Think I may opt for the axe since my crafted sword does not have an embellishment

[remote dawn]

as tank?^^ i run yesterday first keys as DD 3,1K

[neon elk]

Like your haste rating dude xd

% doesnt tell shit need raw numbers

[remote dawn]

oh, xD

I don't know exactly, I'm at work

[neon elk]

At like 18k u can run itf and be pretty safe with your sb uptimes , even less if u have 4pc, just dont forget to use SC to fill gaps

Also dont look at uptime in details ( in case you do) go to logs and check blocked hits%

[jagged pier]

i dont think ppl play with the tier set procs correctly tbh

[remote dawn]

oh that i was make

[solemn depot]

people keep saying this, and i'd love to understand why. does SS/SB cooldown reduction somehow not take into account direct % haste increases or?

[neon elk]

Stuff like itf increase your haste by a % based on stuff around you, but thats not a granted thing and doesnt decrease sb cd

[solemn depot]

it does decrease it though, according to the tooltip? ITF is at vault with 28 people around me

[remote dawn]

how i play it correctly ? xD

[solemn depot]

monitor the proc and when you get it focus on resetting SS with revenge to get more SS and reduce the CD of SC

i'm assuming

[remote dawn]

ok, i trying more on evening 🙂 thanks all

[jagged pier]

im certain number 1 ppl dont notice it has been procc'd

they dont focus on pressing SC ither

if it comes of CD at the start of the proc

u can get it back as the proc ends

thats 12 seconds on SB

im 100% sure ppl dont get

[solemn depot]

to be fair, depending on skill level and what you're doing, you might not have the opportunity to because you're busy doing other things, like staying alive, positioning, grabbing aggro, interrupting, doing the affix
sure, if you're 100% zen and super chill about what's happening around you and in the zone, monitoring the proc with a WA and focusing on SS is easy, but doesn't always apply, I feel

[jagged pier]

but staying alive is using the proc to is fullest

[solemn depot]

oh you said SC
I was replying as if you'd said SS

[solemn depot]

this is easy to fix by just using SC on cooldown more or less, unless you wanna let SB drop and save it for a few secs for next pull or something

[solemn depot]

well this is pretty trash as far as first vaults go

[jagged pier]

[slender bison]

Can make the belt into haste/crit with catalyst, ye?

[solemn depot]

i have a crit/haste hero belt and this one is hero too

the button trinket is the best choice, but that is a 1% dps increase and fairly clunky and then i'd have double on use, one of which is defensive (chromebustible)

that seems like a bad choice then, right?

[neon elk]

Yea but u dont have same itf at all times , if u pug with rangeda u have 2 stacks at boss

[round thicket]

What dude ? So i spam revenge instead of IP ? But my healer seems in trouble if i dont cast so much IP, and if i'm starting casting IP in big aoe pulls, i'm spaming that and don't do revenge cause it dissapear very fast

[solemn depot]

that is true. but i don't understand how rating versus % changes anything there

[copper gale]

What’s the main difference in play style for MT and Colossus? I started as MT bc Quazii video but all roads point to Rome(colossus)

Less clap more revenge?

[solemn depot]

colossus does like 20% more damage when played correctly, but you run the risk of not having rage for SB/IP if you misuse your rage and just blindly spam revenge
it's also slightly worse in execute phases because it doesn't get MT's buff to execute
and Col usually runs with thunderous roar over champion's spear
you don't really clap, except to apply rend (or generate rage if your SS and all your offensive cooldowns are on CD)

[gentle ore]

sooo... Bloodoath vs Wick...

[slender bison]

Check your stat weights, both are bis

[solemn depot]

both are viable up to like 17s, so go ahead

[solemn depot]

what does this mean? stat weights are dead, no?

[slender bison]

Both give haste, but if he has 27% crit and 3% versa, maybe Wick is better

[solemn depot]

signet for damage, wick's for survivability and also damage but slightly less

[solemn depot]

that wholly depends on what he's doing, no? if he's pushing 13+s, versa might be better
if he's doing 10s, crit is very likely much better

[gentle ore]

Probably going with Wick since it has speed, and I have bloodoath 658. time to sim though

[copper gale]

Ty

[gentle ore]

I've got 29% crit and 3% versa so probably gonna change to more vers for pushing,

[solemn depot]

i am 99.99% confident that bloodoath will come out on top when you're simming DPS, because 2/3 of versa's benefit isn't included in the calculations

[gentle ore]

Yeah I just want to see how BIG a difference the dps is

[solemn depot]

follow your gut. if you'd like more versa, easy pick: versa. speed is very nice too for a tank

[solemn depot]

let me know, i'm curious. i'm guessing like 0.3%

[slender bison]

Pick versa and use Battle Stance Win-Win

[solemn depot]

or pick crit and use battle stance and demolish 🥲

(mobs, not cast the ability)

[slender bison]

On the DFC pack of rats

[gentle ore]

Dont think I've left d-stance once mid key xD dont think I have it bound

[solemn depot]

yes, yes, do this and shame your dps

[slender bison]

"Bruh, you guys said this is a pumpers group"

[solemn depot]

bUt tHaT iS SuBoPtiMaL!

[gentle ore]

I swear I'd forget and then die randomly x

[solemn depot]

full disclosure i haven't either, and i wouldn't dream of it one week after i started playing warrior and 1 week after i started tanking

[gentle ore]

Hm, 0.8% difference on 5 targets 3 min fight between Wick and Bloodoath, now simming ST, I assume it'll be lower differential there

[round thicket]

What is your rule to spend rage between revenge or ignore pain ? Don't know what to do, especially on big pulls

[solemn depot]

keep IP up (if you have a 1m shield or 4m shield it still only absorbs 50% of damage until it's depleted), use revenge for resets

if you can upkeep some IP before you recast it, even if it's not 100% (as long as it's not 0%), you can safely use revenge

[gentle ore]

0.6% on ST, wick it'll be I guess and I can craft to replace cyrces, or neck.. (I hate cyrces, why they spent so much effort on a half patch ring idk)

[neon elk]

Unless a very specific scenario where i need IP to live ( first boss priory) i dont use IP unless im gona overcap on rage , so if im at like 80+ rage ( no 130 rage talent) i use IP , if im lower and i have free gcd i press revenge

Also we talk about colo right ? Its different for MT

[copper gale]

As MT I spam IP so this sounds wild I’m almost afraid to try it

I’ll be testing tonight

[solemn depot]

technically you shouldn't
you should only use it when the absorb amount isn't enough to cover whatever's incoming or it's about to drop off or you're at 80 rage and about to overcap

you should still be using revenge as MT to reset SS CD and restart the thane feedback loop of SS > TC > SS > TC

[copper gale]

Don’t exactly mean 100% spam but I try to keep it as high uptime as possible whereas lommas is recommending using it sparingly

[copper gale]

I have a bad habit of clicking it before SB sometimes during longer fights

I’m new to it all though and got the priorities confused for a few days

Think I’m better off learning to play better than adding another button and decision

Ty though it’s a interesting idea

[solemn depot]

fair
I rescind my advice
I do have SB bound to my Revenge tho

so that i never "waste" rage on Revenge when I'd need SB to not die

[copper gale]

That’s probably safe enough

[solemn depot]

it makes me overcap on SB, but better than dying

[copper gale]

I like that one I’ll copy it!

[neon elk]

Damn man ngl, that sound stupid, but u do u

[copper gale]

Bad for burns but that’s relatively isolated

[solemn depot]

thanks for that valuable feedback. it's nice to be surrounded by smarter people

[copper gale]

So can have a revenge key for that

#1 tank on NA has “stupid hot keys” so there’s many ways to play the game 🫢

[lofty warren]

is that the name of a weak aura?

[solemn depot]

i'd rather be slightly stupid than rude to random strangers, but everyone do themselves

[neon elk]

Yea but i guess u arent n1 tank that know why he does what he does

Also it was proven many times those top end tanks do make mistakes and bad decisions yet they choose to do so, why thats on them, but thats also why it is adviced to dont follow what they do blindly

[solemn depot]

and? everyone makes mistakes

[neon elk]

If u feel offended im sorry , didnt meant it like that , or you , i literaly meant that macro to be stupid and doesnt have anythingpositive in it

Not mistskes as per se, like in gameplay, more like mistskes where they choose to do "less optimal stuff" , then are proven wrong, yet they choose to still do so, cuz they feel like it

[solemn depot]

i literally explained what the "positive" of that macro is
i never end up using rage on revenge when I have sb available, enough rage for it, and maybe i didn't do a good enough job tracking how long i have left/made other wrong decisions that would lead to SB dropping

[copper gale]

He’s claimed it’s not optimal but his goal is to live as tank not dps quicker and time the keys

[round pendant]

these are not mutually exclusive

[copper gale]

Of course. Depends on context

[round pendant]

dpsing makes you live more easily too

[solemn depot]

they sometimes are when you're starting out with the class, role, and spec? at least for some people

[neon elk]

Okej u have one positive to like 10 negatives , and that 1 positive can be fixed easily

[solemn depot]

yes. this is the easy fix.

[round pendant]

Simply press shield block

[neon elk]

I wouldnt advice that macro to anyone , yet alone to someone new, its gona turn into a bad habbit and will just makes things worse down the line

[round pendant]

It's not hard

[solemn depot]

the negatives are that i, once every 12 seconds, need an extra 30 rage to use revenge. i'll live.

[round pendant]

the easy fix is to press your buttons consciously rather than using some bandaid fixes because you cba learning

[neon elk]

The negative is also that u are ragestarving yourself, possibly ovecaping/wasting sb , using it on end of pull and then it runing out while u run to next pack etc etc etc . Also revenge is tons of dmg , leech which helps you to live, it funels your active IP etc etc .. dont skip on revenge to overcap sb, ez as that

[round pendant]

I'll never understand people who come here just to argue for bad decisions with people who actually know how to play

[solemn depot]

thanks mate, what's your next stellar advice, to breathe in and out while tanking to not die due to lack of oxygen to the brain?
"just do everything correctly and you'll be fine"

i recommended it specifically to someone who said they have trouble keeping SB up when they should. it's not a general recommendation. i didn't present it as such
and i am so over this whole shitty "oh just play perfectly, you don't need to use any defensives or defensive trinkets ever" attitude, it's super toxic and completely unproductive

[round pendant]

What's toxic about advising people to use their abilities properly lmfao

if you're having trouble maintaining SB

Focus on it more

Don't put it in some shitty macro

[neon elk]

Im too tired for arguing but please if u have such bad advice( like that macro of yours) dont do advices , if u like to use it go ahead, like i said , u do u, but dont advice it, like ever

[next yacht]

'If you play bad just try to play better'-thats the true warrior way, you dont have to think more than this

[solemn depot]

i'm gonna pretend you're not being facetious, but this is what's toxic: "using some bandaid fixes because you cba learning"
i don't think anyone here is actually averse to learning, but it just might be true that they're having trouble learning that specific thing. and maybe they'd like to do 10s, and don't have time to do 10 practice 6s to learn to do this properly, and also don't want to brick those 10s due to misplays. so when the choice is "try to learn in <content you want to be doing> and possibly brick keys you otherwise wouldn't have" or "apply a bandaid and do the 10s with ease", the choice seems obvious to me

[round pendant]

You'd be surprised how many people come here who are unwilling to learn

Also you just described a scenario in which someone cba to learn so not sure what your point is

[solemn depot]

you know what, i probably would be surprised
and hey, there's that toxicity again. not having infinite time to do lower content than you'd like to learn in a safer environment =/= "cba to learn"

[round thicket]

Sometimes i'm spaming revenge on big pulls and i'm feeling more comfort than spamming more Ip and thinking about it. Any idea why ?

[solemn depot]

doing damage refills your IP

[round thicket]

Refill my IP ?

[solemn depot]

doing damage fills your ignore pain back up to 100% (but does not refresh its duration)

[thorn patio]

https://raider.io/characters/eu/tarren-mill/Rurstomp

Rurstomp is that your warrior?

[sharp gale]

In general you press IP only if it falls off or about to (not really needed in some situation ) or rage capping

[solemn depot]

probably yeah. are you going to try and shame my one week old warrior? i should grab popcorn

[thorn patio]

No, i was just curious because the way you were talking about ignore pain and having your shield block macrod to your revenge hurts me

[solemn depot]

well don't apply a bandaid to the hurt, because bandaids are bad, right?

[solemn depot]

sorry, the way i'm talking about IP? what did I say about IP that was incorrect?

[sharp gale]

What’s the topic I don’t want to read 30 messages back, if it’s SB macro, first why on revenge, and it does start a bad habit / like having bsv when you learn (and you ignore when it procs)

[round pendant]

You don't have to play even remotely optimally to time 10s so I'd much rather someone actually learn to use their mitigation correctly than use a crappy macro that ragestarves them

[solemn depot]

of course it does, that's why it wasn't a generic suggestion, but a suggestion to someone who is having trouble keeping SB up when they meant to and should be
like suggesting someone take BSV over ravager when they are having a lot of trouble with dying
it's called a workaround, because not everybody learns instantly or plays perfectly 100% of the time, and sometimes people need crutches

[round pendant]

not to mention they'll never learn how to use sb if they just fudge it with that awful macro

[sharp gale]

I would more suggest to take HR talent in that case

To have the small habit to press SB right away

[solemn depot]

never ever? even if they also have SB bound and try to use standalone SB as often as possible to prevent being rage starved when they could cast an extra 1 revenge?

[solemn depot]

i am using HR anyways because my haste is slightly too low

[round pendant]

If they're doing that then they may as well keep doing that and learn properly?

The SB + Revenge macro is just shooting yourself in the foot

it's not a crutch

You're literally just harming your own progress

[delicate sparrow]

Im sure somebody know here why this is the case, but im pretty sure that 10x7% is 70%?

[sharp gale]

I don’t see how you can have SB uptime issues with HR

[round pendant]

And it's not toxic to call that out just because you don't like my tone

Make a bad decision -> get told it's a bad decision -> wtf toxic

[solemn depot]

by not pressing the ability when you're supposed to

[round pendant]

I've seen people time 12s with 60% blocked hits

[sharp gale]

You do talk in kinda passive-aggressive way yam

[solemn depot]

let's not pretend you just said "you should be using SB more"

[neon elk]

It has buged tooltip since nerf few weeks ago and iirc each application has different increase but at max stacks it averages out at what blizz intended so "working fine"

[round pendant]

I mean, what reason is there to macro SB to Revenge so you can get into +10s other than simply being unwilling to learn to play properly?

[solemn depot]

to not brick 10s on my one week old char because SB fell off because i was stupid about it

[round pendant]

Just because you don't have the time to play more 6s doesn't mean you're entitled to doing 10s

And you're simply harming yourself by using a shit macro

[round pendant]

I could be actual aggressive like nimchip

[sharp gale]

You don’t care about bricking keys when you learn + learn routing

Unless irl time matters

[solemn depot]

you don't, i do
you're also not entitled to tell me what content to play, yam
but it's like you said, you don't need to play optimally to time 10s, so until i develop the muscle memory to use SB correctly and not let it drop, i will play suboptimally and still time 10s

[round pendant]

There are 4 other people in your group, if you can't play your spec at the most basic level to survive the key you shouldn't be doing it

[solemn depot]

pretty hard to do on dummies, and i won't do it in a group where i might be wasting strangers' time for the benefit of my learning, but maybe i'll solo a few heroics and try to focus on that

[sharp gale]

I timed a 10 without SB up at all last week

[round pendant]

Yeah also that

dropping SB in a 10 isn't gonna instantly murder you

[sharp gale]

But I have big ilvl tho

[solemn depot]

would love to see a log of you doing the first pull in a cinder 10 without sb or with like 40% uptime. maybe i can learn something from it.

[sharp gale]

Im eating and sure I will

[neon elk]

Have you tried setting a WA for your rage and SB and put that stuff in middle of screen or somwhere where u can see it all the times and just track it that way? And press when u need

[solemn depot]

yes

[sharp gale]

I will log and not take bsv

[neon elk]

Top one is sb?

[solemn depot]

SB, IP, rage from top to bottom
shield block even has a border dashed very fast glow when i have rage for it but it's not up

[neon elk]

Maybe config it to make sound/ do glow or whatever when its about to end , like 3sec before drop or so

[solemn depot]

and the bar turns red when it's about to drop off

but i really should change that to 4s, it's currently set to do that at 2

[final linden]

I like that! Could you share it please

[neon elk]

Och so u have that

[sharp gale]

On my dk I made one to say I will drop dnd debuff in 3 sec, kinda nice yeah

[solemn depot]

yes, i just tweaked afenar's

[neon elk]

Maybe change position to see it better ? I kinda dont see how that isnt enough at tracking it , especialy with low haste as u mentioned u dont wanna be just "sending it"

[solemn depot]

sent a DM

[sharp gale]

With HR you kinda send one on pull and the packs dies before it drops in 10s

[solemn depot]

i don't know either man. i'm switching between thane and colossus, because i'd ideally like to get better at colossus, i forget to use ravager like half the time because it's on the second row of the core abilities WA

[round pendant]

Anyway, if you haven't learned how to use the most basic mit for pwar but insist that you should be doing 10s, that's a lot more toxic imo than me calling you out for a shit macro

[solemn depot]

k mate

[round pendant]

also that scenario with cinderbrew

am I allowed to use shield wall

[solemn depot]

1

[round pendant]

lol

[sharp gale]

Yam I did a key without any SB source, not even shield charge or last stand

You shouldn’t worry

[onyx vessel]

[solemn depot]

the main problem isn't using SB
it's not rage-starving myself when i should be using SB in the next 3-4 seconds and am not able to generate the 30 rage for it

[round pendant]

well

your macro probably doesn't help solve that problem

[solemn depot]

but i think i'm gonna change the rage bar to help with that, to have a visual marker for 50 or 60 or whatever rage and try not to dip below it

[sharp gale]

I think macro a spender on another spender is also weird

[solemn depot]

it literally does, because i usually end up in those situations because i used revenge. what the fuck else am i gonna use my rage on except revenge and IP outside execute phases?

[vast epoch]

Bruh, someone says "dropping sb will not instantly murder you" , you switch it into "a 60% missing uptime scenario on cinder first pull" to have an random argument

[neon elk]

Well thats the colo thing , uhave to think about rage way more than with MT ( or at leat pre s2 nerf was like that) but imo SC fixes a lot of those things and proper use it do make things better

[sharp gale]

think about rage way more = start to throw some TC when you are at 1ish revenge of rage

[solemn depot]

yes, which is why i prefer playing MT, because there's just an overflow of rage. but again, am also trying to learn colossus, because it's just more dps and big numbers are fun.

[round pendant]

There are scenarios in which your SB charge isn't refilled and you're going to press revenge and fuck yourself over

instead of just waiting half a second and pressing SB on its own

And if you train your brain that it's okay to press revenge because SB is macro'd to it and it'll save you

you'll never fix that situation

[ionic fern]

[round pendant]

WHAT

What don't you get mwahi

[thorn patio]

I like yam

[round pendant]

Granted it's a bit of a niche scenario and will prob only happen if you don't press SC enough

[sharp gale]

Or no tier proc loser

[round pendant]

The only good macro is IP+SS

[sharp gale]

tier proc L is a reason I take more haste than sims tells me

[slender bison]

Damn, these Brewmasters coming out of the woodwork in 12s

[solemn depot]

wouldn't SB+SS be just as good? i mean both

[ionic fern]

Don't macro SB into anything.

[round pendant]

[solemn depot]

i am aware. that's why it's a crutch. i know it's a crutch. i never said it isn't. i am actively trying to move away from using the crutch, but it's slow going and i can't help it much more than i'm already helping it

[sharp gale]

I wouldn’t macro SB to anything but moving it out of revenge is a good start imo

[sharp gale]

Not even the random kick macro ?

[solemn depot]

okay, because? you end up using SS if it's off cd (due to a reset), or only cast SB if you're in the middle of a GCD
same reasoning for having SS macroed to IP
genuinely asking, because i'm struggling to understand why it's good to macro IP with SS, but not SB with SS

[round pendant]

the what now

IP can snipe SS resets

[sharp gale]

There is a macro that kicks whatever spell is casted

[sacred hedge]

I think macroing heroic strike into shield slam is better imo

[solemn depot]

how does IP reset SS?
wowhead says This macro casts Ignore Pain and Shield Slam back to back. It will automatically "snipe" Shield Slam resets from auto-attacks when you plan to dump rage.

[sharp gale]

It doesn’t

[round pendant]

yeah that's what I meant

[sharp gale]

It is to cast the reset of the previous gcd

Since you IP between the two

[round pendant]

I have a migraine ignore me

[solemn depot]

right. which is what i said here.

so why do we not want to snipe a SS reset when using SB as well? it casts a generator at the same time as an off-GCD spender

[sharp gale]

Rurstomp the IP+ SS macro replaces your IP button not your SS button

[solemn depot]

i'm struggling to come up with a scenario where i want to cast something else during that GCD simultaneously to SB and would not want to cast a (reset?) SS

yes, i'm aware. it's also what it does on my bars right now.

[round pendant]

I mean you can but it's basically useless since you hardly press SB

[sharp gale]

So if you would copy it for SB, you don’t press it to SS, it’s only for SB

[solemn depot]

i already have, use, and enjoy the IP (+SS) macro as my default IP button
why would it be bad to have the same macro, but for SB?

agreed. i still use SS as my hotkey 1 ability and use it manually.

[sharp gale]

You could, but it doesn’t replace SS button

[solemn depot]

i don't just spam the IP macro to cast SS

[round pendant]

it's not bad

[solemn depot]

also agreed, and never said it should

[round pendant]

It's just not good

[solemn depot]

mwahi just literally said to never macro SB into anything

[round pendant]

It won't kill you or anything

[sharp gale]

Yeah don’t macro SB to a button you press with SB being the secondary goal

[solemn depot]

wasn't gonna

[round pendant]

IP is pressed a lot, lots of situations where it can snipe a reset

[sharp gale]

Like revenge+ SB, you replaced your revenge button with it?

[solemn depot]

that one yes, not my SB button

[round pendant]

with thane when you're dumping rage a lot by pressing ignore pain, you can get a few free SS resets from your auto attacks without having to think about it

hardly happens with col tbh

[sharp gale]

That’s what he meant

[round pendant]

and basically never gonna happen with SB

just compare IP CPM vs SB cpm

[solemn depot]

it still didn't have SB as the secondary goal, but the primary goal. revenge was secondary there.

[sharp gale]

No because you replaced your revenge button

[round pendant]

I was under the impression you had SB+Revenge as your revenge button

[sharp gale]

So revenge is your primary goal of your button

[solemn depot]

but it's #2 i nthe cast sequence of the macro
the macro is
/cast shield block
/cast revenge
it never casts revenge if you have a SB charge available and rage to use it

[sharp gale]

It is not the macro text topic

[sacred hedge]

So if u macro SB to your revenge and u have already SB buff going on, u just overwrite your current SB and waste stack of SB? 🥸

[sharp gale]

It’s rotation

[round pendant]

SB stacks up to 3x duration

[solemn depot]

yeah, i overcapped on SB

especially with HR

but if the alternative is one wipe because i fucked up and SB dropped when it shouldn't have, i was fine accepting that compromise of missing 1.5 revenge casts (and the possible SS resets, and the possible SB resets)

[sharp gale]

But it doesn’t matter with HR, it’s why I recommend HR to learn

[solemn depot]

but i do feel more comfortable on war now, so maybe i don't need to accept the compromise any more

[sacred hedge]

What kind of content is this minmaxing related to?

[sharp gale]

Which min-maxing

[solemn depot]

perish the thought, i'm at most minning, defo not maxing

[sacred hedge]

Raid related or high m+ or low m+ or casual world quests farmingb

?

[sharp gale]

SB uptime is any content / but whatever when your content doesn’t kill you if you drop SB

Raid doesn’t matter

[solemn depot]

i'm mostly talking about mid m+, 10s

[sharp gale]

Im battle stance, execute 35% juggernaut my sprocket prog

[round pendant]

Basically, you run into issues if you're pressing X+SB with the intention of getting X

as you're potentially spending SB charges unnecessarily

(and ragestarving)

[sharp gale]

More rage starving concern imo, bc HR

[round pendant]

overcapping sb sucks too

prob whatever with HR though

[solemn depot]

but this rage starvation reduces my DPS by 3%, it doesn't lead to me dying due to not having SB up, which the other rage starvation does, and is arguably much worse

[round pendant]

rage starvation is really really bad for your defensiveness too

[sharp gale]

I just have in my mind the image of him pressing revenge+SB when he is in the rotation timing you are around 1.5 revenge of no rage anymore

[solemn depot]

it's nice to know i'm in people's minds, it means the pendant is working

[thorn patio]

I'm just thinking of when you have pumper dps and you go to revenge to make sure they don't rip threat, and then you are just shield blocking for no reason and extending it

[solemn depot]

i'll cross this bridge when i have pumper dps

[sharp gale]

If you stop throwing GCDs = you die btw

[sacred hedge]

Cant have pump dps if u cannot hold threat cause u spent all your rage on shieldblock :susge:

[solemn depot]

also if you stop breathing irl or do /sit

[sharp gale]

Well it’s more game accurate bc if you stop rage machine you will likely die

being gcd locked