protection

[cerulean tusk]

Dont IP taht much

[lusty grotto]

and take a look at the pinned reflect sheet to see whats spell blockable

blockable and reflectable

thats it

[rich ember]

Yeah it just feels so wildly simple

almost dirty, ya know?

[strong forum]

cuz it is

they made it one of the easiest tanks to play

[jagged gust]

RIP APM brain stimuli

[rich ember]

I make a point to watch Sense's videos but I wish the man used the details plugin that shows casts lol

[jagged gust]

Line up CDs and SS >TC > Revenge/exe

that'd be all you're trying to emulate

[rich ember]

Ok so let me explain how I'm actually using my CDs in keys. That may be something.

[lusty grotto]

can you provide logs instead

idk why you wouldn't log if youre a title player

or close to

[rich ember]

Assume 3 small packs loosely separated.

I charge into one, revenge it to get snap threat. Charge into the next, same thing. Leap to the next, revenge again.

Let them gather.

Avatar/Demo shout

Colossus slammy thing

shield charge

thunderous roar

Does that sound right?

[rich ember]

Generally do, but I've been too busy to set up a new autologger for the past two weeks. I've been raiding, rat gearing multiple tanks, and gearing guildies

Probably going to do that today

[chilly brook]

I promise you you don't need it

[rich ember]

I used to rely on warcraft recorder but idk it messed up on new patch. Probs gotta reinstall. This is pretty much the first time I'm coming up for air since S2 launch

[chilly brook]

Shield slam on CD, press TC if under 60 rage, spend excess rage on revenge or IP if you're at risk of capping

Press the rest of your CDs on CD

[jagged gust]

revenge leaves deep wounds, always a good thing, TC applies rend which you should also be weaving in while gathering, demolish you wanna try to stack a bit before ripping

[chilly brook]

it really is that simple

[rich ember]

Ok so I need to set my plater to track my bleeds to make sure they are both applied.

[chilly brook]

no

[neon elk]

When i get to that fountain he is still standing there ? Or is already moving ?

[chilly brook]

you really don't

[chilly brook]

he spawns over by the stairs where I circled

you tank him there

[rich ember]

I GET THE FEELING THAT I AM OVERTHINKING

[chilly brook]

at the stairs in the rcorner

[chilly brook]

because you are

[rich ember]

lol I am traumatized from prot pal last season

[neon elk]

Yea gotta try that, thanks

[chilly brook]

you press both revenge and TC enough that it's not worth tracking bleeds

[chilly brook]

since when does pally need a lot of thought?

[rich ember]

o I thought I read on the wowhead guide that you only thunder clap when you want to apply bleeds. Not 100% accurate?

[chilly brook]

yesn't

[jagged gust]

that sounds like arms advice

[lusty grotto]

you also generate rage with it

[chilly brook]

it generates rage

[lusty grotto]

so its not entirely unusable

[chilly brook]

is good to press

[rich ember]

Since even the slightest incorrect key press last season in 17s was instant death

[chilly brook]

depending on how much rage you have and whether or not the targets have rend

but like I said sub 60 rage? press the button if shield slam is on CD

[jagged gust]

when played optimally TC is basically pressed on CD anyways

give or take a GCD

[rich ember]

That's fair, so assume I am IPing too much. When is the optimal time?

[jagged gust]

there isnt

[rich ember]

Just before you overcap/?

[lusty grotto]

you only use it when about to cap

yes

[jagged gust]

cap rage

not IP pool

[rich ember]

ok cool.

[lusty grotto]

and/or if you need it for something very specific

[rich ember]

And on pulls with super high dam intake? Does that change?

[chilly brook]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/p9BfQ8mZb1DAgaw2?fight=61&type=casts&source=464&view=timeline

I'm not perfect

but

[jagged gust]

Sometimes all you have is Spell Reflect, IP pooled and a dream

[chilly brook]

this should give you an idea

[rich ember]

trust me, I am not here to judge lol

[jagged gust]

your damage and certain talents feed IP passively, rage is necessary to continue pressing revenge when your other abilities are on CD, so you're basically stuck between a rock and a hard place

but the answer is normally do damage

and the rest will come back naturally

[rich ember]

How many mobs are you pulling in your CB 12 1st pull?

[lusty grotto]

most pulls arent gonna be reliant on IPs

[chilly brook]

Kind of? So like you can press IP more in higher damage intake but you still need to spend rage on revenge as it can reset shield slam. If your rage economy dies because you don't have any rage and everything is on CD that's how you die

[lusty grotto]

and if you dont press damage, your IPs will fall off fast cause they are front in damage mit calculations

[chilly brook]

This is also why you press TC more than just to apply the bleed, it also generates rage, but more importantly it can reset shield slam as well

[rich ember]

Ok, it sounds like I'm doing most things more or less correct aside from MAYBE frontloading my IP. That's comforting at least.

[jagged gust]

(and rage spent goes towards violent outburst which will then cast IP for you and generate more rage)

[lusty grotto]

yeppers

[chilly brook]

You'd also be surprised how long you can keep up a double IP from just pressing damage buttons

[rich ember]

thats a good one.

[jagged gust]

yeah it's all a feedback loop

IP is the thing that can make or break it

[rich ember]

Yeah I noticed that on some pulls, but on otherpulls I see that I will cast IP and its gone within a couple frames so I don't even get to revenge to maintain it

[chilly brook]

Brutal Vitality actually does a decent amount

[jagged gust]

no CDs up and facepulling packs kinda scenarios this'll happen, you're gonna have low IP regen from damage and low rage to replenish the pool

also missed kicked will eat your pool in no time flat

[rich ember]

Ya as a meme I took some rando pieces and stacked insane amounts of crit. It actually carried my IP pretty hard.

[chilly brook]

last half of MOTHERLODE and some parts of Priory are like the only two dungeons where I feel like paper this season

[rich ember]

I think it was like 24k crit or something lol

[jagged gust]

good time for defensives Which gives avatar, which obviously is a good thing for all the aforementioned reasons

Yeah crit is based, parrygod confirm/deny

[rich ember]

I've actually been using my shield walls offensively sometimes because at this level of keys I just overcap stacks

[chilly brook]

pull bigger

[jagged gust]

SW is nice to line up an avatar with demo imo

[rich ember]

pugs die 😦

[lusty grotto]

thats not a meme

[jagged gust]

shout is usually within 5-8 seconds of demo, can nail the timing of shout+avatar+demolish pretty regularly

[rich ember]

Alright boys. I appreciate the conversation. I need to go demo shout in the bathroom. I'll get some logs and come get roasted in the next day or so

Thanks for the help!!

[chilly brook]

this pull is fun af

[rich ember]

https://tenor.com/view/tiktok-dog-awkward-dog-confused-awkward-confused-dog-gif-1955501164687414218

[chilly brook]

is ez pz

[smoky anvil]

My boys don’t have the heart or the gumption to do it yet. But the cleave, it calls to me.

[jagged gust]

that lightspawn fucked me so hard when I tried this

[lusty grotto]

just LoS it

[jagged gust]

otherwise honestly easy pull

[lusty grotto]

(:

unless you mean it healed the mobs

[jagged gust]

yeah, had the miniboss time it's cast the moment he was standing on the edge while the lightspawn was halfway through cast

[chilly brook]

That's just the start

[lusty grotto]

riparooni

[jagged gust]

very demoralizing

[chilly brook]

do this with lust

[strong forum]

Hey Guys what's up

[lusty grotto]

oh no

here comes the RNG god

to link some godlike loot

[jagged gust]

hows your final boss room pulls looking? It's a struggle area for me to find the right cadence

[chilly brook]

although honestly don't actually pull the 3rd pack of paladins until you start killing some

[chilly brook]

conservative

[strong forum]

I got Mr pick me up from normal raid today

On my warrior cuz we did glory run and everyone was saved but me

[small steeple]

did nome get a different avatar/name color

[strong forum]

[chilly brook]

5 is kinda more of a chain into the patrol kinda pull when things are low/dying

[strong forum]

I'm literally just a normal dude wdym

[chilly brook]

I'll just grab you my MDT route import

[small steeple]

Prots, what do you do for your first pull in Floodgate?

[lusty grotto]

lemme show u somethin

[jagged gust]

❤️

[chilly brook]

big ass pull

with lust

[strong forum]

You pull 5 packs at once

[small steeple]

yeah but like this

[strong forum]

Wait

[chilly brook]

!Tv1spsnmm4)oCCYJM2EcjGlRquwrwThJyEKUuO0UmnDz5c)2j2ojnPmsZJMeB)5p)z3yyMhm6ld99dNxhD)X0Xyg9VT2F4FYOpE5Y80J2RldZtMUkHYOF544QfC6861R2j39RJJMU60A96Pr7l2r0)N9hU4nUJL9tNW0XXp(hK4Nk8Jh6oL)VkiEDmPXbwf9X5HyEC(Qr33lS99(TpepuHHdDGf9G5xTfaApUKGoKeOpDCbHoNqphjaNwBosie1LqiYHObrOfbWBiaatra0GohdfFhJew4yzESKhkYLwK1jWRa7B3wb46XiaSdRG0HkkpRkInjbsQuijDqI8lHGkJDGKWXYtq)skxdw3ArlOLEogRahOIkenE4lRG49Ne2SuTKuycWeLLBvbncsFDEZs9ojerOnlkjkk4fAIGuprnHuDePWZXAAPWHnivHJv0)THLjXMKho1th3LrvsFmXAfpYoe8gZdfKa0EEEZDhFxFiYqveX4eg1DldJhjxOcg7gwll4xlQpr5HMFuz9any4f)xpqOeIvGnAqdUQmDAlJAlYisxJrHLtnvHBnfUvLL8hzK03MJGZqVIy)ltIbpo)Mbb)GjRPexfBl3)Ic(UEvSDz3uEcky4ioqSbwqn4f0AlRGGwLxnInr8IOi3mKfoC)lssZC0ll2ACCzRJ20sGuyPmShO(1f4XZobyP0CZXEWfkJBYkBBKGyn)gJZUGp7NdtZ1uPvWkslkHtTRsKw0TnkOgtehfAUmpJ4vM8UsAuPbJq4YJyal6)3n(6WTORj)W60t25P7U8kuAQmAN1(ZHPNmNm6f7O9SdUYDtF0xh6DFUVFX6sxO6crea5(JJwNZE3u)muwoU6MFpSpeY3TZgatCi3zF1)R(xRdlF7VF9lZRo7Bn65tF3d)ccGED4Irx9PP6MpUU6E8n(9m)7

[small steeple]

or this

[strong forum]

Eh could be worse

[strong forum]

This

[lusty grotto]

[jagged gust]

such a good pull, and early practice to see if the group will live the second double shredder pull

[strong forum]

Nah this route ain't it

Holdup lemme get up

[chilly brook]

hey man

This big boy route

go yell at ellesmere

[pallid quiver]

little do you know, nome's just gonna share a route where the whole ass dungo is pulled pull 1

[jagged gust]

that 9 pull looks way too tame

[chilly brook]

Been a super smooth key with this route

[chilly brook]

honestly you could just chain 9 into 10 after killing the scaffolding

[chilly brook]

but why skip demo man

[wicked pollen]

i hate pull 9

[stable pawn]

For Motherlode last two bosses especially on Rixxa Fluxflame fight - how do you deal with her fire auto-attacks? I suppose spam ignore pain. Would using spell block and spell reflect help mitigate that damage?

[chilly brook]

super free (when they're not bugged)

[wicked pollen]

its so aids jerking my shit waiting for scaffoldings to die

[strong forum]

pull does literally nothing

[wicked pollen]

ik

but its aids not being able to send as dps

[strong forum]

its more about skipping the snipers

[chilly brook]

snipers are meh

[wicked pollen]

because no one hits the scaffoldings

[strong forum]

?

[chilly brook]

they're way way more tame than the sharpshooters in priory

[toxic pewter]

u guys ready for our giga nerf coming any moment now

[lusty grotto]

yes

[strong forum]

yes

[lusty grotto]

we'll dump about 30% of this channel's pop

[toxic pewter]

sigh

XD true

[strong forum]

which is funny considering we're 2nd least popular tank in mythic raid

[pallid quiver]

It feels bad doing big first pulls like that

and then the group just doesn't send lust

[strong forum]

so the nerfs dont even make sense popularity wise

[jagged gust]

Can't you skip both sniper packs by chaining in the 2nd surveryor group with the double shredders and the contractors near first boss?

[strong forum]

no clue

ive done the dungeon a total of 3 times

[chilly brook]

Idk Squish's route even pulls snipers

in 16

[pallid quiver]

Damn, he's done the dungeon once more than I have

[strong forum]

im literally just yapping

[chilly brook]

They're really not bad

the only real dangerous thing is the inspectors because people can't see purple

[strong forum]

no clue what people do in high keys, dont really care as timers are extremely forgiving

and 98% of routes are just hold W

[cerulean tusk]

You hate to see this

[strong forum]

only 1mil?

[cerulean tusk]

:<

[strong forum]

why you stuck in last patch

[pallid quiver]

Meanwhile, the DPS ion my groups that keep managing to die somehow:

[strong forum]

[cerulean tusk]

Rude

[strong forum]

[cerulean tusk]

This a sign we get nerfed tho

we ded

40% nerf inc

[strong forum]

even with 40% nerf

we're not as bad as monks

[pallid quiver]

If being on top of the damage charts meant we got nerfed, we would be doing healer DPS eventually

[chilly brook]

honestly

[cerulean tusk]

Monks got ring of peace, shush u

[chilly brook]

I'm not even mad at this route he did

1st boss feels like aids without lust

[pallid quiver]

because boy are there a lot of people who hate pressing buttons

[cerulean tusk]

Takes some time to get used to on DOG, that LoS is a lie

Just trust the WA

Fire isnt real, it cant hurt me

[strong forum]

boss doesnt use LoS but the buff

ancient tech

[cerulean tusk]

I know, still feels weird

My brain says "you not LoS, box, hide!"

WA says "chill man, my duuuude. You chill..."

Meanwhile I got nothing between me and the boss

[pallid quiver]

I still need to get better at placing that dog so you can actually hit it while still in cover; I only get it like half the time because me stupee

[cerulean tusk]

It is basically impossible not to

[strong forum]

put him infront of the corner

not at the corner

in front of it

[jagged gust]

Is 6 soldiers too many for a single pull? feel like that dot might stack too high between dispels

[cerulean tusk]

just let the WA spend 0.5sec before you move, and it will find a spot no matter where

Soldiers?

[jagged gust]

the darkfuse in floodgate

[cerulean tusk]

I never had an issue with that DoT, so I presume you can?

My pathing seem to max out at 4, but I never noticed it to be problematic

[pallid quiver]

godspeed, nome, there's a post about trinket tuning

[neon elk]

Gues the new trinket bufs wont change much?

[pallid quiver]

incoming people pinging you forever about what it all means

[cerulean tusk]

20% on this, and it still just a 3% overall

wait, that is wrong

far too much

1.7% overall

[strong forum]

still all garbage

[cerulean tusk]

I expected to see at least a 100-200% on this one

if they lowballed it

[strong forum]

cuz a) they still do fuckall
b) we still have 30% penalty on all of em

until those 2 are adressed, we remain using stat trinkets like everyone else in the game

[chilly brook]

I mean tbf some (being bdk) tanks actually love that trinket

[cerulean tusk]

Doubt that, even with the 200% amp, that would be 3% of my overall

[strong forum]

3% overall and mainstat

[cerulean tusk]

It sims 2k higher than my Egg

worth

[lusty grotto]

c:

[cerulean tusk]

Gz on tier?

[lusty grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-fine-fail-burn-dog-gif-5848141

[cerulean tusk]

[strong forum]

meanwhile i looted 3 cinderbrew necks in 6 runs

[lusty grotto]

dhaauihduaihduiad

maybe rik reverb and the council will bless me tonight

[cerulean tusk]

I pray 🙏 for you

[lusty grotto]

lmao

for heroic run

And my power went out

[neon elk]

Im still rockiny s1 belt , feel ya

[strong forum]

__Pwar nerfs? Are we dead? __

Not world ending. We still chillin
~10-13% AoE nerf and 5% ST nerf

[pallid quiver]

nome's swinging before I even get to see what the nerfs are

[wicked pollen]

we got nerfed

lol

[strong forum]

Ye but it's not big

[wicked pollen]

where

[strong forum]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-incoming-march-25/2080741

[wicked pollen]

ah its not on any of the wowhead bots

[pallid quiver]

I don't think there is a wowhead article yet

would be why

[strong forum]

Wowhead is also just humans

[cerulean tusk]

Slackers, get bots on it

[pallid quiver]

We know you're lying; you're all bodily modified cyborgs, built to be optimized for nothing more than playing WoW at a high level and yapping about it.

[heavy hazel]

dose that mean we move over to thane?

[cerulean tusk]

Most likely not, but the 30% nerf to the Demo booster is big sad

[pallid quiver]

Now I ain't no big math man or have even napkinned math, but Colo did a lot more damage than Thane, and Thane still ain't that much more survivable

[cerulean tusk]

"demo booster", I say, as I talk about revenge

[strong forum]

This is like a 5% nerf in aoe or smth

[heavy hazel]

yeah i was all like they went for demolish?!

[strong forum]

If I turbo napkin feelycraft

[cerulean tusk]

I am just glad we keep demo

it is the fun part

Rev DPS is just neat, but I can gladly see it cut down a tad

[strong forum]

Tide of battle is extra revenge dmg per stack of colossal might

Not demo dmg

[pallid quiver]

But Nome, they dropped bonus to revenge by 10%, that means it's at least a 10% nerf! That's how it works!

[strong forum]

Well it's a multitude of revenge nerfs

[cerulean tusk]

hit it 50% and we still fine

[pallid quiver]

That means it's even more, that's like a 50% nerf smh

[strong forum]

100% -> 70% at max stacks
20% -> 10% flat
And 25% -> 15% based on enemy count

[outer merlin]

hi can somone tell me you skil Magic Block in M+

[idle copper]

There needs to be some metric where naff dps are held to account, DPS M+ score for each run should be tiered lower for each spot below number 1

[strong forum]

Yes we do, Ben

[outer merlin]

year but why

[pallid quiver]

Spell Block is extremely useful, acting as another CD against most things that actually hurt you.

[strong forum]

Wdym why, cuz it allows you to block spells

[pallid quiver]

I'm looking at you, Thunder Punch. the fuck you mean unblockable at all

[strong forum]

It's really self explanatory

[idle copper]

Blocking spells for 30 seconds is a massive dmg reduction

[vestal moat]

Vengenace caught a small nerf too. prot pally untouched hmm

[outer merlin]

year but in m+ are not much spels that are coming on tank

[idle copper]

having it on a 90 seconds CD means its up for most pulls

[cerulean tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/pat-pat-gif-24957682

Nome said we lost 69% of our DPS, and our value is down 420%

[pallid quiver]

It's rough being so NICE

[cerulean tusk]

He wants revenge, so went to Demolish the blizz HQ

[strong forum]

Not many no, but the ones that do, you really are thankful to have it

It's not like you can get anything else of value for it

[pallid quiver]

Have you tried considering what I mentioned above, where specifically the things that hurt you the most, spell block usually works on

[outer merlin]

so what i am understanding can he block magic as well not onley spels

[urban portal]

refer to the spell refelct sheet

on what you can block

[idle copper]

Just done an 11 where two paladins died 13 times between and managed to use not 1 health pot

[strong forum]

Spells are magic

[cerulean tusk]

13 times? Magical number that

[strong forum]

There are very very very few non-magical spells

[outer merlin]

year so a dot that does magic can he block it as well

[strong forum]

No

Dots are the exception

We can block almost everything, but dots

[pallid quiver]

except when we can

[elfin geode]

how much % do u think it is for st?

[cerulean tusk]

shhh, dont make it more confusing

[strong forum]

Like 2

This is really not a big deal at all

[pallid quiver]

Most I can think of have been in raid, so there's that at least

[elfin geode]

cool 👍

[gritty oriole]

where did archimtiros saw those nerfs for prot warr?

[outer merlin]

but you still have spellreflekt

[gritty oriole]

for next week

is there a link even

[pallid quiver]

Blue post on official forums

[neon elk]

At least we can now flex harder, outdmging dps even after nerfs

[pallid quiver]

Nome has a link to it above

actually
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-incoming-march-25/2080741

[last pebble]

my world is crashing my day is ruined

[pallid quiver]

Honestly, I thought we were gonna get hit harder.

[outer merlin]

so you just try to uptime Magic Block

[sacred badge]

i don't do math but this doesn't seem terribel given how far ahead we are damage-wise

[idle copper]

I thought VDH's dps was on par with ours?

[last pebble]

no vdh damage is super mid

[stiff gate]

i get that the nerfs aren't big but still hilarious they're gonna nerf our dps when vdh is absolutely dominating the front page and got basically nothing

[strong forum]

It would be if people played felscarred

[last pebble]

i mean prot warr damage is still insane im pulling 1.4mil ST on bosses at 651 we're still going to be far better than anyone else

[dull zodiac]

[strong forum]

Cuz it's mostly Copium and bandwagoning that dominates popularity

[rich dragon]

Bro's I'm new to prot, it's fun as fuck

[idle copper]

Aren't they like 54% representation? and we are ~8%??

[stiff gate]

well that and solo locking down trash packs for 10 years so your dps can be asleep at the wheel

[strong forum]

Fucking a bear is currently r1 tank

[lusty karma]

50% damage reduction at max for revenge

[cerulean tusk]

4%, but ye

doesnt matter

[idle copper]

Nerf bears....

[cerulean tusk]

we basically do equal DPS to a low-tier player

[strong forum]

Didn't matter last season did it

🙂

[lusty karma]

shield slam 15%, shockwave 10%

[sturdy trench]

i mean wtf does vdh only gets 5% nerf

[stiff gate]

wdym, the last 4 seasons in a row have been prot pally or vdh, the tanks that can solo handle all the kicks for their team

[sturdy trench]

and we get like 20%

[lusty karma]

5% buff to ss in mountain thane

[fallow beacon]

how does bdk go untouched s3&4 of shadowlands, veng double sigils untouched an entire expac, prot pal not even touched last season until ptr, but prot warr gets 3 weeks doing dam and insta nerfed

[strong forum]

There's been like 3 vdh in last seasons title cutoff

It's almost like it's a massive bandwagoning train

!!

[stiff gate]

because they all rerolled to prot pally to do the same thing while babysitting the enhance with sac lol

[strong forum]

My point still stands

[reef turret]

Any chance we go Mountain Thane over Colossus now?

[strong forum]

Not even remotely

Thane is still far behind colossus dmg output

[lusty karma]

the only thing we can do to stand out is do significantly more damage than other tanks until they rework the class, and they haven't really touched it in a decade so that won't be anytime soon

[reef turret]

Alright cheers

[lusty karma]

hate that they then nerf the damage so we go back to being bottom

[jolly swift]

How big do we think the dps nerfs are? %wise in keys

[strong forum]

5% in total

[lusty karma]

50% revenge at peak, 15% shield slam, 10% shockwave assuming 5+ targets

[tacit falcon]

doubt it's enough to stop the "omg pwar does so much damage comments" from the shit dps.

[frosty mango]

as expected the nerf was heavy handed for aoe damage and we got no defensive buffs in return so we'll probably be relegated to the bin now

brewmasters exist though so were still not last

[iron vale]

so this is a thane angle now? or still collosus?

[jolly swift]

5% not too bad

[strong forum]

? Are you all okay

[fallow beacon]

no

[strong forum]

This nerf is almost entirely cosmetix

Kalm down xd

[frosty mango]

no this is an unmitigated disaster, the sky is falling, we're all going to die

[lusty karma]

meteor impact imminent

[idle copper]

https://tenor.com/view/not-okay-bad-okay-no-man-im-pretty-fucking-far-from-okay-gif-15334113

[fallow beacon]

its more the principle of nerfing us small or otherwise when other tanks just get entire seasons of being untouchable

[small steeple]

What about the MT buff?

[stiff gate]

the nerf doesnt matter that much, its just the principle of nerfing us when we already don't bring much to a group outside of literally just doing dps

[lusty karma]

just give us bloodlust, brez, and 5 other utilities so we can be relevant regardless already

[stiff gate]

its the same with monk tank getting an indirect nerf on ptr as well, they also have zero useful group buttons AND arent allowed to do dps either lol

[idle copper]

Tbh id take the nerfs to have a group gather

[small steeple]

To quote Harry Potter "we need to be seen doing something" Even if its nothing at all

[floral bronze]

i really wish rallying cry was just useful

[lusty karma]

right, kit inherently means we lack unless we get something like live is right now, doing significantly more damage than other tanks

but they can't let that be our differentiating feature so we get nerfed, kinda lame

[stiff gate]

the fact that rally doesn't have the typical "100% more effective outside of raids" aura thing they gave all the healer cds is sad

[lusty karma]

i'd take a class rework but they haven't done that ever or hinted at addressing inherent issues with the class so, just annoying really

[fallow beacon]

like darkness for vdh? kek

[lusty karma]

will still pump

[small steeple]

@strong forum do these trinket buffs that are now live change anything?
https://www.wowhead.com/news/trinket-hotfixes-on-live-servers-many-20-buffs-to-direct-damage-trinkets-376030

[strong forum]

In 12.0 we trust

No

[floral bronze]

mate they could either reduce the CD to 1.5min OR make it give 10%hp+10% DR OR as the worst option keep it but make it also heal the 10% max hp increase. rallying cry is so goddamn useless

[toxic gyro]

it should be 30% hp in m+

[strong forum]

They're all still garbage

[small steeple]

lol

[idle copper]

https://tenor.com/view/lie-you-lie-liar-american-horror-story-madame-la-laurie-gif-7706266

[stiff gate]

warrior doesnt even need a rework just literally make rally not garbage/not a 3min cd, or bring back safeguard, or make disrupting a silence instead of only a kick

[south goblet]

ngl i wish they just replace rally with a brez/lust at this point

[strong forum]

We really do

Just because our tree is strong

Doesn't mean it's not shit

[floral bronze]

i would be so happy with a brez/hero

[strong forum]

Fucking prot pally has 7 points they dont even want to spend in their 3rd gate

Meanwhile we don't have enough points in 3rd gate

[lusty karma]

i love our kit but it isn't what sells in m+, like intervene is fun, spell reflect is fun, they just don't make enough of a different in keys most of the time

yeah if they made somem of our abilities baseline again

[floral bronze]

like hero would even fit the theme, make it a loud scream and make us happy

[lusty karma]

wtb fear back on my bar without a point

[stiff gate]

the core gameplay of prot warrior doens't feel broken to me, which is what i usually feel like when i hear "rework" the talent tree could use some work though i agree

[strong forum]

Yes Lust would fit us

[strong forum]

That's what rework entails

Not rework of the gameplay, rework of the talent tree allocation and pathing

Pwar literally can't tank until level 65

[floral bronze]

why do shamans get hero, ankh, the best buff in the game, group MS% increase, AoE Stun, AoE knockup, ranged short cd kick AND do bonkers dmg

[stiff gate]

okay yeah i agree with that

[lusty karma]

if they just made a few of our abilities baseline that alone would be huge

[strong forum]

Like

80% of our rage generation is tied to the 3rd gate

That makes 0 sense

[cosmic harness]

Are the changes coming in 25th impactful?

[minor wigeon]

give lust, mass spell reflect, +bonus to rally in 5man

[strong forum]

No

[floral bronze]

making that cheat death baseline would be so sick

[hidden harbor]

rip patch notes btw

[chilly brook]

what changes?

[thin marten]

I thought the one appeal of protwarrs was the damage, why's that what's being nerfed

[golden thicket]

It's still a massive nerf to dmg

[thin marten]

since they don't bring any sort of utility what so ever

[hidden harbor]

Protection
Shield Slam damage reduced by 5%.
Colossus: Practiced Strikes’s bonus to Shield Slam and Revenge damage reduced to 10% (was 20%).
Colossus: One Against Many reduced to 3% per target (was 5%).
Colossus: Tide of Battle reduced to 7% per stack (was 10%).
Mountain Thane: Strength of the Mountain’s bonus to Shield Slam damage increased to 15% (was 10%).

[small steeple]

i wa suprsieed they didn't touch demolish. So what % would you say this would be? 2% overall? 3?

[cosmic harness]

@chilly brook

[floral bronze]

are the nerfs a mountain thane angle maybe?

[chilly brook]

I mean I see the post now but also don't see any news posts yet?

[last pebble]

specs dead confirmed

[deft raptor]

rerolling other tank spec, prot dead, bye

[plain iron]

What are the sources for the nerf, I don’t see anything on the bluepost on wowhead

[mighty valley]

it’s like they optimized these nerfs to appear scary while not amounting to much

[small steeple]

||https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-incoming-march-25/2080741||

[lusty karma]

If you add it all up, in 5+ target pulls with 10 stacks of colossus it's 50% damage reduction to revenge, 15% shield slam, 10% shockwave.

[strong forum]

That's not how math works in style

Not at all

[lusty karma]

isn't it all additive?

[strong forum]

No

[mighty valley]

we’ll still be highest damage big pull tank probably

[strong forum]

It's multiplication

[small steeple]

oh wow.... 10% shockwave.... also not how it works here

[strong forum]

It's all multiplication

[floral bronze]

for sure lol, we are like 10-20% ahead of other tanks rn, the nerf wont change that much ig

[mighty valley]

also we don’t spend that much time at max colossal might

[strong forum]

From 145% colossus dam, down to 95%

that's not a 50% nerf

We still have more revenge buffs on our tree

[rustic rivet]

Can you give an estimate of how much of an overall dmg nerf it will maybe be?
I can only do napkin math at this time

[floral bronze]

5% someone said above

[strong forum]

5% aoe 2% St

Roughly

Instead of 3.5mil you'll do 3.3mil

Big whoop

[rustic rivet]

ok that's mildly anything

[strong forum]

Literally cosmetic nerf

[floral bronze]

yeah it was warranted somehow, but i still wish theyd give us SOME utility

[rustic rivet]

it reads at first like 15% lol

[strong forum]

Not even close

Revenge is only 30-40% of our overall dmg

[thin marten]

I mean isn't the one appeal of prot warriors the damage

[cerulean tusk]

I was more scared if they were going after Demolish. Revenge can take a punch or two

[strong forum]

So even if you FULL ON, nerfed it by 50%

[cosmic harness]

Give warriors bloodlust, we can scream strong enough to motivate our allies (?)

[frosty mango]

the overall dps nerf is irrelevant, the burst potential of revenge on a 10 stack on large packs that need to die quickly is where this will hurt the most

[strong forum]

It wont

At all

[thin marten]

vdh's have 25 sigils that fear, mass grip, silence

[rustic rivet]

Yes...when I look at my ppal it's just disgusting, even in this season

[chilly brook]

I mean it would be nice if they would just give us some tank buffs to offset whatever small nerfs happened tbh

[hybrid cloak]

yeah its literally all the class has is good damage. might be a small nerf but its lame.

[strong forum]

But anyway

[frosty mango]

but all jokes aside were still warriors

[strong forum]

You guys can doom

[idle copper]

https://keystone.guru/route/priory-of-the-sacred-flame/0ZeWAvw/priory-of-the-sacred-flame-temporary-route

Got people dieing on 6, 9, 14 , 15 and 16
14s a LoS

Should I tweek route?

[frosty mango]

its not like

[small steeple]

give warrior a healer spec. We shout at you like a drill sergeant until you heal

[floral bronze]

i think nerfing demolish would literally kill the hero spec lol

[frosty mango]

we brought anything

[strong forum]

I'll go yo bed

[frosty mango]

literally no one is like "oh man get a warrior"

[strong forum]

I'll just leave you with this

[chilly brook]

can't even see it

[strong forum]

https://tenor.com/view/paulrudd-gif-18560841

[cerulean tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/nn-dog-nn-dog-hvh-hvh-dog-gif-2221786557132186681

[floral bronze]

i mean in a melee comp warr tank is goated

[hybrid cloak]

this lol

[floral bronze]

my ret+enhancer+hunter m+ group loves my warr

[strong forum]

Pwar giving his 3% dmg to brew

[idle copper]

Routes not coming up?

[hybrid cloak]

another vdh / prot pala tier

[strong forum]

You seem surprised

[thin marten]

they love your warrior because they haven't played with a protpal or vdh

[strong forum]

It will NEVER

Be pwar meta

Or non pally/vdh/bear meta

[hardy snow]

revenge will be weaker

[frosty mango]

this for real

[idle copper]

Try https://keystone.guru/0ZeWAvw

[hardy snow]

[strong forum]

It will NEVER be brew/bdk/pwar meta unless either of them is incredibly overpowered

[frosty mango]

the amount of damage pwar would need to do to outweigh the utility literally any other tank brings is astronomical

[floral bronze]

i mean the buff is pretty good in combination with my damage,

[strong forum]

Correct

[lusty karma]

battle shout should give 5% strength

[floral bronze]

agree tho

[strong forum]

That's literally what bshout does...

[mighty valley]

pwarr is doing the highest keys, what more do you people want. other than a hug

[lusty karma]

it's attack power isn't it?

[hybrid cloak]

we need to brigade forums, we need you to lead nomeratur 😡

[floral bronze]

literally just give us lust and we gucci

[strong forum]

5% atk power is the same as 5% str

Lol

[chilly brook]

AP is literally str

[lusty karma]

does ap give defensive benefits?

[strong forum]

Yes

[tribal wharf]

fury and maybe arms warrior only

[floral bronze]

does AP work for hunters as well ?

[tribal wharf]

costs 90 or 100 rage

[chilly brook]

IP is tied to AP pretty sure

[wicked pollen]

yes

[strong forum]

Yes

[tribal wharf]

i would say 100

[strong forum]

Bshout buffs all melee dps and hunters by literally 5% dmg

[wicked pollen]

only reason they have it as ap is so other specs benefit

[coarse ferry]

just give all tanks lust and take it away from everyone else... you "always" have a tank in a group....

[floral bronze]

it would be so fucking funny if they give warriors lust but just give it to fury

[strong forum]

Haha no

[hybrid cloak]

why the fuck is our fear still target capped too, game is lame

[strong forum]

It wouldn't

[tribal wharf]

i mean paladin has ................ paladin..............

[idle copper]

Will try and publish it

[strong forum]

Also again, I bedge

[floral bronze]

i mean it would be pretty funny but also sad

AoE spell reflect would be so sick though for M+

[chilly brook]

https://tenor.com/view/bb22-big-brother22-bbdavonne-davonne-rogers-bb22davonne-gif-18075747

[idle copper]

Should be published now
https://keystone.guru/route/priory-of-the-sacred-flame/0ZeWAvw/priory-of-the-sacred-flame-temporary-route

[lusty karma]

does AP scale with strength talents too then?

[bleak breach]

Well, didn’t take long for us to get nerfed

[lusty karma]

e.g. armored to the teeth?

[strong forum]

Yes

Cuz str IS ap

[bleak breach]

Rip going to reroll see you all in another life

[lusty karma]

right but AP isn't Str I assumed

[strong forum]

Str translates to ap

[chilly brook]

Route could be better

[strong forum]

Right but why would that matter

[astral helm]

feels weird blizz nerfing warr again

[lusty karma]

So for Armored to the Teeth that work with BShout?

[astral helm]

cops have been called

[lusty karma]

it doesn't say AP it says str

[strong forum]

Bruh we're literally tuned around bshout

[strong forum]

Why does that matter

[lusty karma]

nvm wrong reading

[thin marten]

the 15 warriors outside of CN server were enjoying the game

[chilly brook]

my personal route (lifted from Squishvegan)

Pull 9 is a lust pull

[astral helm]

forbidden

[chilly brook]

if no lust break it up

[lusty karma]

I just figured things that scale off of STR wouldn't scale off of AP stat changes directly

[strong forum]

Well they don't

But we're also the ONLY CLASS that can buff ap

In any way shape or form

[idle copper]

Thank you ill have a look through it

[chilly brook]

grabbing tons of paladins in one pull is really rough on the healer (completely doable mind you but need a good healer and defensives)

[strong forum]

Nothing increases AP except bshout specifically

[mighty valley]

that’s the real buff we need, for all phys specs to be busted except arms/fury, which would have to suck

[hybrid cloak]

not gonna happen. phys dps just living in a magic world bro.

[idle copper]

You mean pulls 11 and 12?

[floral bronze]

make bshout give 20% AP maybe thats enough utility

[chilly brook]

pulls 10, 11 and 12 are all able to be chained @idle copper just need to be conscious of when sacred toll went off and how many paladins are up. If healer is doin good then you can chain

[chilly brook]

all of these pulls have paladins

[strong forum]

That does sound plausible

[nocturne spindle]

13 doesnt have a paladin

[strong forum]

After all people do conflate utility with dmg

Literally every patch

[chilly brook]

[elder viper]

so how much of a nerf to prot warrior exactly is these nerfs

[strong forum]

Fuckall

[chilly brook]

[floral bronze]

35% roughly

[strong forum]

But there's pins

I'm out for real now

[fluid widget]

bye nomeratur!

[chilly brook]

go bedge you beautiful German

[idle copper]

Ill slow them down

[keen anvil]

So.. our glory is over, isn't it?

[floral bronze]

yes reroll vdh

[coarse ferry]

earlier they said 5% aoe, 2% ST

[chrome sapphire]

Does the power balance between Colossus and Mountain Thane now teeter back towards MT?

[bleak breach]

Shouldn’t hurt too much, we were pumping. A lot of dps I play with could barely keep up and they’re good players.

[mighty valley]

nope! both are still fine

[prisma echo]

Guys im newbie prot. I run few +7s and have some feeling of it. Should i rotate between avatar and shield walls for constat avatar (from talent as i understand) to have constant +20% dmg increase?

[bleak breach]

Yes, but I try to hold a shield wall just incase you need it.

[mighty valley]

press avatar on CD, press shield wall when you need it to live. if you’re in a really easy key you can keep one of your wall charges on cd for the dps

[idle copper]

The add onto each other dont they?

[prisma echo]

On +7s with 638ilvl and shitty weapon i was feeling more or less invincible

did 1kk overall

[floral bronze]

btw r u guys playing the 0.15% crit gem or MS? im zooming around with 125% MS unbuffed and it feels good

[prisma echo]

i see potential 😄

[agile elbow]

That one lone Chinese player on the raider.io leader boards doing 15s was very scary and imposing. I definitely see why we got nerfed amidst the sea of vengeance demon hunters.

[mighty valley]

we got a mild slap on the wrist, we’re fine

[floral bronze]

vdh got nerfed as well btw, 5% less parry

[chilly brook]

thane is still going to do less damage

by far

still going to be better in single target

[real thunder]

So the nerfs seem to affect our revenge damage. That's alot of our damage and feeds into Brutal Vitality. I see the pins, some posts say 5%aoe, 2%st and some others say much higher. I dont know what to believe...lol

[chilly brook]

and worse in key damage

[frosty holly]

VHD just have the better utility. We have huge dmg. It's still going to be very big

[bleak breach]

Colossus better in both yeah? Or do you mean thane is better ST?

[lofty warren]

Any updated tier lists that account for incoming tuning?

[small steeple]

check the pin

[floral bronze]

prot warr F tier

[prisma echo]

Of course i started my prot war alt today

and it was nerfed

[sterile orbit]

where prot dead memes

[prisma echo]

5h after starting :d

sorry guys

[balmy nova]

Tide of battle talent should give % to Shield slam too 😦

[floral bronze]

enough time to reroll vdh

[lofty warren]

Is mountain thunder hero power better now?

[mighty valley]

no

[lofty warren]

Eww so all they did was neef damage?

[chilly brook]

Thane is better in ST

[mighty valley]

these nerfs were laser targeted to do almost nothing except make you all freak out

genius move

[floral bronze]

u guys think 5% parry nerf to vdh is significant? i feel like its big

[prisma echo]

nah i main VDH trying different tanks to see which i enjoy most (fuck paladins)

[agile elbow]

Time to main paladin they didn't get shit

[small steeple]

I did some math, 11.67% nerf to amount of parry assuming 100% uptime

[dusty flume]

Considering vdh was buffed to not be super reliant on parry as much, I doubt it

[floral bronze]

isnt that pretty big tho? eating 1/10 more hits seems big

[small steeple]

Well then the amount of effective dr that parry actually brings needs to be considered

[bleak breach]

Ahhh okay, just all top parses seem to be Colossus even in ST

[cerulean tusk]

Only if you are going to minmax dam, just try to keep the 1 for actual danger, then use the float 1 to boost a Demo outside avatar frame for max dam

[urban bane]

Love so many copium chatters here were like "if they nerf us it is for ST we're not overperforming in aoe"

[cerulean tusk]

I just read yours Muse, but if that is the conversation, I am out before I get annoyed

[round cliff]

warrior good for all of half a season before getting deleted

tragic

[lofty warren]

Is vdh dead after nerfs?

[cerulean tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/hillywood-good-omens-crowley-fall-falling-gif-4442165418888756537

[small steeple]

no

[floral bronze]

yes

[lofty warren]

Hmm is it yes or no?

[cerulean tusk]

That is a no

[native ember]

u cant be serious

[lofty warren]

Ok good that's what I was maining bc it's highest on tier lost

[floral bronze]

mate ur asking if a 5% parry nerf is killing a tank

[native ember]

ROFLMAO

[round cliff]

prot war dead

[lusty grotto]

[small steeple]

lol prot paladin had a 5% parry nerf start of season/going into this season. Didn't change much if anything

[sterile orbit]

where prot war dead memes

[prisma echo]

literally unplayable 😄

[lofty warren]

Prot paladin fell off on tier list

[dusty flume]

All tanks dead now

[prisma echo]

5 dps meta

incoming

[dusty flume]

4 dps 1 healer meta

[prisma echo]

because mist also got nerfed

[dusty flume]

Yo

[floral bronze]

brewmaster unironically actually dead

[lofty warren]

See here is current m+ tank tier list

[floral bronze]

thank you that is very informative

[small steeple]

oh wow. Shitty aggregate data

[native ember]

genuinely do people choose what class they play every season based on tierlist cause thats just crazy 2 me

[lofty warren]

It's from archon

[small steeple]

yeah, they don't aggregate data well

[floral bronze]

seeing the numbers of WW monks and disc priests in tool is a big yes

[cold cosmos]

I play Prot Warrior because Blizz removed Gladiator <_< No matter how it's performing

[toxic pewter]

just lost a h titan of industry to a dude alreadying using crafted 675 gear...

[keen anvil]

So.. does this mean that I can just play MT in raid and call it good?

[bleak breach]

Wow

[cerulean tusk]

You always could, Jama

[frank badge]

any tips on doing first floodgate boss (big momma) on prot warr? feels like the tank buster destroyed me

[bleak breach]

Already could

[floral bronze]

use shield wall

[prisma echo]

Guys i got secret discord access to tank theorycrafters

here is tierlist

[cerulean tusk]

Not beyond making sure to pop a CD, and that is it. I am not strugling at all with Momma

[floral bronze]

real

[sterile orbit]

finally memes

[frank badge]

also why is my cheat death proc when im at 80% at big momma?

is there a mechanic to it or what

[floral bronze]

mater r u using any def cds for the tank bust

or ar you just straight up glorping it

[frank badge]

yeah but when im out of cd its so hard, im pugging so i couldnt communicate for the defensive

[cerulean tusk]

You never should be

[frank badge]

yeah im doin +14

[frank badge]

would be dead right away if im not using big cd

[frank badge]

problem is sometimes my cd just gone and my cheat death proc at 80% so i dont have it when i needed it

[cerulean tusk]

This, this is a quality one

[sterile orbit]

thank you finally

[floral bronze]

u can use spell reflect for additional 25% def

[prisma echo]

Guys i will brag

one of my memes

is actually pinned at vdh discord

one of my biggest acomplishment

[keen anvil]

At this point isn't Colossus out performing MT in raid and M+ pretty significantly?

[frank badge]

doesnt cut it if its only spell reflect, i would still be dropped to 20-40%. is there a way so my cheat death not proccing when my health is high?

[mighty valley]

mt execute builds are better damage on a lot of fights

[toxic pewter]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148897941883584512/1253819345939857449/rlp.gif

is this u

[floral bronze]

ur cheat death is proccing because u dropped below the threshold and then probably just got healed

[prisma echo]

nah not near close to this masterpiece

[toxic pewter]

XD

[prisma echo]

but i prefer other

[toxic pewter]

that my fav gif maybe all time

[prisma echo]

when he write big in stonevault

[bleak breach]

Colossus is go to build, but can’t go wrong playing thane either

[keen anvil]

Interesting

[floral bronze]

u shouzldnt die through shield wall + reflect

[frank badge]

my health 100%, 100% ignore pain + shield wall + reflect. after the tank buster my health go down to 80% but my cheat death proc

[toxic pewter]

wait wat theres another?

[pastel atlas]

are we madge boys?

[toxic pewter]

na

[frank badge]

yeah but shield wall is not always up

[prisma echo]

let me find

[floral bronze]

it should though i think, 2 charges with 1.4min cd reduced by rage spending

and if it isnt up u have last stand + rally

[harsh trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/nanalan-are-you-feeling-mad-mad-sad-mona-gif-12005166819415822979

[pastel atlas]

im ready to riot

[strong forum]

Big IP + demo + Sr

[prisma echo]

This one is peak https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/213770533769052162/1352080217564250295/big2.gif?ex=67deb094&is=67dd5f14&hm=1c25904abaaab881d9f08c1bdc7ca3921fc3572b7967fe3bcf6bd580bab2a76b&=&width=768&height=960

[toxic pewter]

LOL

[pallid quiver]

big

[prisma echo]

big

[native ember]

ROFLMAO

[floral bronze]

hahahah this happened so often to me when i played vdh

[native ember]

imagine the embarrassment id have to leave the key we out

[prisma echo]

we need same with war

[pastel atlas]

stop this is too real

[rich dragon]

lmao

[native ember]

bro was prob like why didnt u heal me

[floral bronze]

its ALWAYS the healers fault

[harsh marlin]

yeah guys

we gonna suck 4ever

pally is better than us

we lost

[native ember]

especially if its a disc priest

[toxic pewter]

wild it used to be when we were top damage we were basically meta.. just shows how strong the disparity of the utility situation truly is

plus we basically as tanky as we have ever been

[lofty warren]

Who gives correct tier list after tuning?

[small steeple]

no one

tier list are bs

and based on runs completed

[thin marten]

VDH protpala good

other tanks bad

[toxic pewter]

lol pepega right on time with the pressing questions of our time

[thin marten]

apply to every season

[small steeple]

so itsl iterally just a whats popular tier list

[floral bronze]

mate unless youre running +17s tierlists are so irrelevant is crazy

[cyan oriole]

any1 crunched some actual numbers?

[prisma echo]

maybe he is running +17

and need to know what to play

[floral bronze]

honestly i didnt think of it like this, maybe ur right

[prisma echo]

stop keyshaming

[strong forum]

Never change pepega

[thin marten]

people going for 0.1% title are in the prot warrior discord

[dark barn]

WARRIOR
Protection
Shield Slam damage reduced by 5%.
Colossus: Practiced Strikes’s bonus to Shield Slam and Revenge damage reduced to 10% (was 20%).
Colossus: One Against Many reduced to 3% per target (was 5%).
Colossus: Tide of Battle reduced to 7% per stack (was 10%).
Mountain Thane: Strength of the Mountain’s bonus to Shield Slam damage increased to 15% (was 10%).

How much is this nerf?

[thin marten]

humongous

[pastel atlas]

dead class

[undone beacon]

prot is ded now gg

[cerulean tusk]

Not enough that we care

[pastel atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-shocked-shocked-cat-gif-11170546809524778591

[thin marten]

you gotta rangeweave with your gun to do damage now

[floral bronze]

why does farming horde iron scraps take so goddamn long i just want to look like schwarzhand

[cerulean tusk]

it is so little that you likely wont notice. Dont worry

[chrome falcon]

what even is tide of battle

is that the extra revenge damage from stacks?

[torpid merlin]

Yes

[small steeple]

this implies @lofty warren has atleast 4 twitch accounts

[agile elbow]

Pins

[lofty warren]

Ok got it i don't need to reroll from vdh. It is scary to drop lower on tier list. Did enjoy mt war when it was highest on tier

[floral bronze]

based

[toxic pewter]

pepega need to know meta for his +4's

[undone beacon]

the real question is

Do the changes to Druid of the Claw make Claw Guardian more appealing than Elune's Chosen?

[thin marten]

too many people asking if protwarriors were broken in their 6&7 farm keys

[harsh marlin]

prot is dead

[small steeple]

lol

[harsh marlin]

go prot pally

because blizz love pallys

[floral bronze]

i only enjoy classes that are high up on the tierlist sadly

[cyan oriole]

[floral bronze]

what primary stat gem r u using guys? ive been using the MS one and im zooming with 125% MS atm

[thin marten]

everyone using crit gem is the reason our damage got nerfed

good job everyone

[lofty warren]

I did a +10 today but I also have little time to play. Not like during covid when we were all "working from home"

That's why I want to do the thing high on tier lost. More time efficiency

[toxic pewter]

cant believe this dude ninja looted my heroic titan of industry

[raw parcel]

With the nerfs coming is Mountain Thane more on par with Colossus for M+?

[toxic pewter]

prob closer but im not going back to thane I like demolishing stuff

[harsh marlin]

doenst matter

we are dead

4ever

rip prot

[round cliff]

has anyone mathed out the changes yet

is this like a 15% nerf to our dmg? 20%?

[unborn island]

Guess we got nerfed, what a bunch of cunts, assume they gave paladins lust and boosted their damage too?

[true idol]

colo is only fun because it does obscene dmg, so much time spent not pressing buttons compared to thane

[lofty warren]

I saw it pins that said it's not a big nerf idk tho

[coarse ferry]

5% aoe 2% st

[round cliff]

actual dead spec

wtf

[prisma echo]

Btw they update patch notes

there is new line in pwar

[coarse ferry]

completey dead... time to reroll brewmaster

[round cliff]

blizz be like "we want tanks to do more damage" and then be like "except prot war we take it back lol"

im actually about to reroll brm dawg

unironically

[floral bronze]

where were u when protwar dead?

[pallid quiver]

i was makey the poo poo

[blazing echo]

At least we have a 10% max HP buff on a 3-minute cooldown, and our utility is fine

[pallid quiver]

it make poo poo sad

[obtuse egret]

Do the colossus nerfs only effect the protection version of the talent tree?

[worn crest]

you goobs speed running shitty 9s with pure dps garbage brought this nerf on us all 😂

[pallid quiver]

Fruiter craves his damage being tanked into the ground

[pallid quiver]

i've got bad news for you

[obtuse egret]

So how bad is this nerf?

[pallid quiver]

the people pulling those numbers were running like, proper builds

You can blame it on whatever you like, but it's still the same talent setup you'd use for higher keys, maybe just ravager into BSV for a safety net

[chrome falcon]

i think you're misunderstanding their point

they're saying that people blasting 9s as prot with awful dps players

and doing like 3m+ dps

made pwarr look more broken than it was in the community's eyes

[worn crest]

precisely

[dull zodiac]

40 percent nerf overall on aoe, unplayable, reroll DH

[chrome falcon]

it's a little disappointing that blizz decided to tap us down instead of bringing the other tanks up more but

it's a small and probably deserved nerf

[obtuse egret]

really? that much

[worn crest]

I'm running a tankier talent set in the 13s and 14s than I see any of these others do

the dps I run with do their jobs, I try to be a tank

[dull zodiac]

whats this logic?

[pallid quiver]

It was; other tanks could do similar damage to Prot, but it'd require them to high roll

[dull zodiac]

u can be a perfectly fine tank and still optimize ur dmg

[bleak breach]

No, it’s like 5% aoe 2% st

[chrome falcon]

prot paladin with good procs in large pulls

was doing more dps than i've seen any tank and most dps specs do

[pallid quiver]

I don't even know how you can be tankier without having both Indom and BSV, and Sense is rocking Indom is some of his 13s and no BSV, so

There's a lot of "tankier" that isn't actually tankier

you're just inting yourself defensively and offensively

[pallid quiver]

BDK could spike even higher, iirc

[worn crest]

Ya I've seen some of that, too

[pallid quiver]

but it's rarer

Honestly, tank damage overall would probably be fine if Prot War got nicked down a bit and Brew brought up a hot amount. I know they have Brew changes, but I'm pretty sure it's not enough

[obtuse egret]

Ah fair, not the worst then. Is it still top DPS tank then?

[frosty holly]

Unless BDK gets some real juicy blood is life

[unborn island]

Nah, they gave paladins lust (probably)

[bleak breach]

Consistently yes

[pallid quiver]

You'll probably outdamage other tanks reliably still, but if they pop-off, since they have better high roll potential, you'll get outdamaged

[bleak breach]

^

Blood can proc really high but we’re consistently higher.

[raw parcel]

Kinda wish Blizzard would look at the tier lists and not slap classes already barely hanging in there with major nerfs. We were already not top dog by any stretch.

[pallid quiver]

we were definitely top dog in terms of damage, and it was deserved balance wise

[obtuse egret]

Ah fair, the sky isnt falling then, thats good

[raw parcel]

And yes, I know, tier lists aren't everything. But community perception matters.

[frosty holly]

Such dooming Panda. Prot war is still disgustingly good at DPS

[hollow spoke]

Kinda need that damage for the brutal vitality build tho

[solid sun]

I think it’s arguable that prot warrior should do more damage than other tanks who bring utility

How much more is up for debate

[bleak breach]

It’s not gonna affect it

[raw parcel]

Strong agree. If they wanna nerf our damage, I'm totally fine with it, but we ought to bring more to the table. >:O

[bleak breach]

The only time we suffer was when you couldn’t do enough damage before the mobs ripped off your ip

[fluid widget]

so trash before Mug'zee that does the 8s stun, how do i not get fucked by that

first time i've truly felt like "wtf do i do" for trash lol

[worn crest]

you save your dmg CDs so the VDH holds threat and gets stunned

[frosty holly]

Get somebody to stun the mob

[fluid widget]

ah shit

simple solutions

[obtuse egret]

Do you think we will still see prot warrior doing some of the higher keys? Not sure if its only there for the damage

[toxic pewter]

na

most will reroll

ive already started leveling my alt

[frosty holly]

I currenty have pala 663 war 663 and VHD 660. Can't say i much enjoy the DH outside it being very tank

Buuut I'm a 10-12 key boi. So there is that

Much more fun blasting packs as prot war

[frozen berry]

Too many dps crying that were beating them in keys, but it’s only colossus and it’s only against shitty players

[obtuse egret]

Ive done half on 13 as prot warrior so far, hoping I can keep playing it. Feels tanky too which I nice, just a lack of utility

[sage dune]

Do you guys think we'll be back on mountain thane or Colosuss still stronger?

[pallid quiver]

The large majority of people playing Prot War at higher keys, even now, are people who are just gonna play it regardless

Most of the reroller types are already settled on either VDH or Pala, with likely more swapping to VDH eventually I would guess

[bleak breach]

https://tenor.com/view/this-ukodor-fabled42-this-post-beard-gif-17164034

[fluid widget]

colo still probably

the damage gap in aoe is nutty

[half jewel]

oh no the sky is falling!

Yea its my fucking demolish hammer bitch

[jagged gust]

It's what, an overall -50% modifier to revenge and -15% to SS?

[half jewel]

someone said like 5% aoe and 2% st nerf overall

[jagged gust]

goes to show how many modifiers those 2 abilities really have

[high aspen]

there are like 10 modifiers for revenge so the -50% doesnt matter much

yeah

[jagged gust]

in essence they lowkey just reverted the barbaric training buff, except now we don't take sidearm either

[covert breach]

Revenge got nerfed around 28.3% (slight round) in best case scenario (max stacks 5+ targets) or so. So yeah not far off just losing the barbaric gain

[obtuse egret]

ah fair enough, hopefully will still be viable in high keys then

[dull zodiac]

this nerfs are prot specific for colossus?

like will they affect arms?

no way right

[jagged gust]

will shield slam and revenge nerfs affect arms?

[dull zodiac]

?

[hardy snow]

does arms use shield slam or revenge?

[dull zodiac]

the same talents exist on arms and affect arms spells

you know

but i guess its for prot specific hero talents

[hardy snow]

its for revenge and shield slam part of these talents

[dull zodiac]

for example

[hardy snow]

oh right, forget about these two 😄

I guess we will see

[dull zodiac]

im 90 percent sure its just on the prot spec and arms is unaffected

cause that would be fd up :kekw:

[hardy snow]

just as demolish buff was on arms 🤷‍♂️

[neon elk]

Yea chances are arms will get a stray

[burnt torrent]

With the nerfs to colossus on tuesday, is it enough to bring thane above?

[glacial skiff]

Chilling for raid, these seem sizable for M+. How large of a nerf are we looking at in multi target?

This also really sucks considering gathering packs this season can be tricky on some pulls and with no real snap threat as colossus. Pugs blowing their load the first global make colossus feels awful trying to fight for threat and staying alive on a large pull.

[neon elk]

I dont realy see how that affects grouping

[glacial skiff]

These nerfs are targeted at rveenge, aka our hardest hitting spammable aoe ability. You can thunderclap all you want but it’s CD and mediocre damage for colossus doesn’t hold threat. The only thing going for it is range if talented.

[toxic pewter]

If you have threat issues prob best to go mountain thane and thunder blast and clap more

[glacial skiff]

Nah. The damage loss between colossus and thane is ridiculous.

[toxic pewter]

I dont even have threat issues myself

Just have to be ahead of people

[neon elk]

U dont realy run around and spam revenge on pull start to gather mobs tho, do you?

[glacial skiff]

First pack of cinderbrew I have 3 dps blowing cd’s before I get all 4 packs together and sometimes they just rip even after aoe taunt expires because they started pressing cds before I get a global or 2 out.

[toxic pewter]

lol

you gotta stop blaming other people

you are the tank

If I cant hold aggro and wipe the group

[glacial skiff]

I’ve done like 40-50 or more cinderbrews for that damn neck (still don’t have it) and it happens like every other key

[toxic pewter]

then I have failed

[glacial skiff]

Duh

[toxic pewter]

You must hold aggro you are the tank

No excuses

[glacial skiff]

Again, duh

[neon elk]

Like if they start blasting while im charging in, thats on them, if its like 10 sec into fight after chal shout, thats on mr

Me*

[sudden lynx]

Did an 8 to get a feel for my new talent build and, while it will take a bit of getting used to, it did feel pretty good to play

The first pull of mechagon workshop I did like 4,5mil dps lol it was sick

[fresh kernel]

oh no what happened

[sudden lynx]

Usually I split the room in two but we had a BL

So we pulled the whole thing like youre supposed to

Amazing

[tacit falcon]

tbh i never trust pugs enough to do that in a workshop without homies.

[sudden lynx]

Yeah we got like 4 deaths lol

Everyone but me died, released, and then we BLd lol

[burnt torrent]

So we chilling from these nerfs? How much aoe dps are we realistically losing?

[sudden lynx]

The mage didnt get the memo until after they died ig

[sudden lynx]

What nerfs

[keen anvil]

None of these keys have tight enough times for turbo risky pulls imo

[tacit falcon]

people are so allergic to hitting their buttons and it shows lmao

[glacial skiff]

And if you’re curious about my cast sequence here’s pretty much what I do while grouping.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tJ4mjGvwnbxhyFpQ?fight=1&type=casts&source=12&view=timeline

[sudden lynx]

Yeah we literally had 18 deaths and still managed to juuuuuust about clear it

I've never seen people mishandle K.U.J.O's ONLY mechanic and blow up the boxes in a key above 3 before so that was cool

We wiped to it twice for no reason other than people getting dizzy

Also I ended with higher overall than the monk because he died SEVEN TIMES

And we STILL timed it

Real forgiving season this time around

[neon elk]

Idc about your cast sequence , all im saying is that this nerf wont afect grouping at all , and if u are having agro issues midpull issue is somewhere else . Ive had people doing 20m in that first pull and agro was just fine

[glacial skiff]

This you right?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nKZacb4j6hLQRxXk?fight=2&type=casts&source=6&view=timeline

[neon elk]

Ye and?

[glacial skiff]

Ok. You’re out of your depth.

[burnt torrent]

The nerfs we are getting on tuesday

[sudden lynx]

Yeah just read them

Annoying but not death