protection

[tardy abyss]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[heavy sparrow]

I keep having pug dps dps from standing in shit

[cyan bronze]

let’s be real tho

blizzard hasn’t rolled the wheel on what tank they want to send to the moon on .5

[round pendant]

it'll be ppal

[cyan bronze]

maybe they turn intervene into a full dmg transfer (mega sac)

[round pendant]

nah that'd give warrior some utility

we hit mobs and get hit

that's it

zugzug

[cyan bronze]

if warriors were better it would probably be good tbf

isn’t bm like

crazy overtuned on ptr

[spring goblet]

Yeah, maximum said in his recent vid that its probably just part of a rescaling with the nerfs to other parts of the kit not live yet

[cerulean tusk]

BM does need love tho. On live, I spot a BM, I will actively do my best to avoid playing with them. It is like having a bonus time killing affix.

So them being busted for a while is prob necessary

[tardy abyss]

BM didnt need any changes coming from DF

Yet theyre getting their third patch of changes

[maiden raptor]

Is there any thoughts on the go to m+ trinkets for next season?

[dark barn]

you probably will be immortal with the two raid trinkets (the haste proc shield and the shield on use)

[tardy abyss]

Using tank trinkets as tank

[violet ginkgo]

moar damage time

[tardy abyss]

It will defo be house of cards and whatever passive dps trinket you can get

[dark barn]

if you dont need this strong defensive trinkets the content is easy enough to just use anything

[violet ginkgo]

well... priory and darkflame won't be easy but.. yeah.

[tardy abyss]

Priory trinket is also somewhat nice for defensive value

[jagged pier]

Brah thats not what its good for

[robust urchin]

Toxic af

[pallid quiver]

it's got the defensive value of murdering the specific things you're looking at so they can't hurt you, jakey, wym

[maiden raptor]

i feel the algari alchemist stone is gonna be not bad

[tardy abyss]

Wait I think Im confusing something

[jagged pier]

[robust urchin]

I'm gonna use the meadery trinket and randomly charge into the worst mob packs and blame the hunter

[round pendant]

I want CC trinkets

[oblique quarry]

CC trinkets would be so much more fun than passive stat sticks

[tribal wharf]

oh, just incase anyone ever gets it twisted for yogi doom lore

always on pc

i played heretic, and then hexen on pc, and then i bought hexen for ps1

man what dissapointment, but i learned

constant above 60fps at 800x600 vs 640x480 or 300x200 at 30fps i think it is, might be 20

old 3d game like that is always always superior on computer

cuz i know there is like doom on ps1 and n64 and snes and shit, i sampled all those but hell no, aint no way i play t hat shit

even on computer its still feel like BS

xbox and above is fine but then im playing on a damned controller and im gimping my self, wish i was on computer again

256x240 10-20 fps gpt says

i didnt know it was that bad 😦

[round pendant]

what are you even trying to say

yeah PSX doom ran like garbage but at least it was mostly playable

a lot of home pcs back then weren't even able to run the game at it's 35fps target too

[ancient reef]

what tank has the best dps alt spec you think on ptr

[strong forum]

there are actually good trinkets next season that serve many different purposes

[dark barn]

Dk frost?

[toxic pewter]

prot warr / arms warr of course

[maiden raptor]

what are some that all clear standouts?

[strong forum]

house of cards

[maiden raptor]

i think thats it, everything else just niche?

[ruby musk]

My favorite one just for flavour is the one that summons the goon squad.

I have headcanon that my warrior gets deeply addicted to noggenfoggers and has to pay off his debt to the gobbo overlords by working with them all patch

[strong forum]

staticfield is also pretty good

eye of kezan

[toxic pewter]

staticfield sounds cool what that even do

[cerulean tusk]

If I had to guess, it releases a static field, that interacts as you get hit

[vale escarp]

hey guys, does anyone know where to exchange the plunderstorm reward which was released like an hour ago

nvm got it

[toxic pewter]

what plunderstorm reward

[vale escarp]

you get an HC raid item, wanted to get it for a toon. Now I got it but it wont open...

[toxic pewter]

interesting

i played a lot of plunderstorm why i didnt get a mail

oh i relogged and got it

[vale escarp]

could you open it?

[toxic pewter]

yes gave me these coins

[vale escarp]

yes you trade them for gear

[toxic pewter]

where

[vale escarp]

56 61 in dornogal

[toxic pewter]

thx

hmm the coins are warboundd it seems may be worth for me to swap them to an alt i guess

[cerulean tusk]

yarp, if you buy the chest - only the green ones can be put in the warbank

the epic one bugs out

[toxic pewter]

ok thx for headsup

[round pendant]

this shit is too good

[tribal wharf]

battlefield or call of duty

im curious

[north atlas]

Winnn

[red tree]

Been seeing this a lot on dps lately, truly wild

[north atlas]

There walking back strat nerf a bit

[torn gulch]

25%

instead of 20

kek

[north atlas]

Half of a un nerf lol

[torn gulch]

After playing with this change, we feel that this gets Protection Warrior to where we want it to be-- an active and engaging playstyle without the rotation being dominated by too-frequent Shield Slam resets.
you can't be serious

[round pendant]

I'm happy

[cerulean tusk]

Take it or leave it

[north atlas]

Better than nothing

[cerulean tusk]

Seems like they ran out of ideas how to fix it so Thane was playable without resets :v

[vestal moat]

ill take it

[round pendant]

I assume we're taking the revenge talent next season right

more damage but no extra rage cost

so 25% + bigger IPs + better revenge

[north atlas]

I am

[round pendant]

it might be good

[cyan bronze]

STRATEGIST TO 25%

WAHOO

we are so back on collysolly

@strong forum how far are we from better than retail now

[sharp olive]

From seeing game play, this looks great

I'm now excited for warrior

[strong forum]

okay

NOW we're better

[cyan bronze]

WAHOO

[jovial reef]

[ember token]

Still, what was the point in all of it in the first place? So the guy that does normals/lfr/delves can 'maximize' the efficiency?

[strong forum]

like i said all the time

intern didnt like thane pwar

too much for 1st timer

so kneejerk reaction "yeah just nerf strategist"

without realizing WHAT they were dealing with

and are now stumped by how FUCKING much impact that had

[cerulean tusk]

Lets just chalk it up to: an attempt was made

[strong forum]

so they have to go back on it

[cyan bronze]

is collysolly still the play

[strong forum]

if they dont take away the buffs they granted

yes

[ember token]

Does sounds like that... So kind of less rage now, better IP, shorter SW

[strong forum]

nah with the buffs + 25% strategist

it should be better across the board

cuz now instead of a 30% nerf to SS reset chance its only a 15% nerf

instead of 1 in 5 GCDs its 1 in 4 GCDs to get a reset

[ember token]

Fair enough, as long as there arent dead globals or anything, then it is fine

[strong forum]

so from 1->3, to 1->5, down to 1->4 but buffed in other departements

[ember token]

I would still like rework of the talents tho, too many 'must have' picks

[strong forum]

soon tm

(not anytime soon)

[ember token]

hopefully not by the same intern [;

[urban bane]

Much ado about nothing and it all could've been avoided. Good grief.

[cerulean tusk]

I mean, hopefully it was one guy, whos lesson now was learned

I rather have one guy do a misstake, learn from it, and improve

than getting a new intern

(scary reality tho, it was probably team effort, a whole think-tank of ppl)

[lilac basalt]

I hope it hasn't been asked a 1000 times but what makes colossus better now (in 11.1)?

[sour flicker]

Monkeybrain happy

Sticking to protwar on s2 😉

[round cliff]

like actually?

i thought it was nerf city

whatd i miss

[cerulean tusk]

They kinda broken how Thane was played; that has kinda been partly reverted just a few minutes ago.
It used to be that the changes supported how Col was already played, while Thane struggled. Then they buffed a lot of Col things to make up for things that broke.

[shut summit]

[strong forum]

if we keep all the buffs + 25% strategist

we will indeed be better

[round cliff]

like if u take what we are now
what specifically is nerfed from what we are now, and what is buffed from what we are now

[frosty holly]

Might be my first time playing Col then. For real that is. Only tested it in like 1 dungeon ages ago

[strong forum]

SS reset chance from 1/3, GCDs to 1/5, down to 1/4 but buffed in other departements

^

that

[cerulean tusk]

Give it a spin, 100%, it is more fun than Thane

[round cliff]

what r these numbers

ah

[lilac basalt]

thanks. I'll be sure to try it ig

[round cliff]

whats do the numbers mean tho xd

[sour flicker]

Colossus is superb fun on raids

[cerulean tusk]

I am just glad, that after all this uproar, they finally partly let it go.

Was afraid for the doubledown.

[frosty holly]

Just not fan of the Wanabe leggo axe spell 😄

[strong forum]

strategist got nerfed from 30% to 20% now bufed back up to 25%

to reset shield slam by buttons

[round cliff]

what abt our rage gen

overall down, right?

[strong forum]

should be up for non-thane

[round cliff]

🤔

[cerulean tusk]

Should be up, with all the extra we got

[strong forum]

thane is still a bit shorter on rage gen cuz of imp wall missing

[round cliff]

so they nerfed strategist, gave us a bunch of compensation buffs, then MOSTLY reverted the strategist nerf

?

[strong forum]

yes

[cerulean tusk]

Maybe warrior dev was doing the long-con, to sneak past some buffs for warrior

[strong forum]

cuz they bit off more than they wanted to chew

[earnest nymph]

is thane still looking like the play for m+?

[strong forum]

TBD

[cerulean tusk]

A true martyr for the cause 🫡

[shut summit]

the changes they wanted were a can of worms that would be basicallly impossible to hit perfectly in the time period they had

[round cliff]

wym missing

[shut summit]

it needs to be an xpac level rework of everything not just what they had done

[strong forum]

Colossus has a serious chance at becoming extremely good in keys
but thane will still be absolutely stable

[cerulean tusk]

They havent reverted any of the Col positive changes (yet)

So we looking stronger than ever

[strong forum]

tbf these colossus specific things (especially barbaric training) shouldve been in on launch but we take it

since colossus didnt have anything rage related at all

[round cliff]

so my guild is gonna start playing again on the 4th to de-rust before 11.1

maybe i should fucks around w/ collo

[cerulean tusk]

Enjoy it while you can - nerfs are sure to hit

[maiden forge]

woah

hold on

[strong forum]

certainly cant hurt

[maiden forge]

everyone down play

cant say its good

[ember token]

It is quite enjoyable in m+

But I hate being rooted when doing big dam

[strong forum]

we're ethical here, we arent dps players

[cerulean tusk]

Sandbagging is for Druids and Paladins

not warriors

[maiden forge]

yeah, but we cant overhype

[cerulean tusk]

We aint, tho

[maiden forge]

good, my work here is done

[strong forum]

this aint overhype, mostly justice

[cerulean tusk]

Warrior hype: "Guys, we might actually be a strong pick for content!"
Reality coming: [BlizzTM] "You guys can do halfway what a meta pick can do, time for a nerf."

[maiden forge]

[cyan bronze]

is build live or no?

[cerulean tusk]

Careful about your hopes there bud

We talking generally

like, we can do content, we good

not we are good, as we are meta good

[umbral coral]

Will it be thane or colossus in m+ ?

[cerulean tusk]

sec

https://tenor.com/view/crystal-ball-crowley-david-tennant-good-omens-psychic-gif-3436909361193405344

I think it is going to be Col

[ember token]

If the tank damage will not be a problem in higher m+ where the meta forms from, we will not be meta simple as it is. But being an underdog and proving fotm players is more satisfying then being a meta class

[round pendant]

BLIZZARD COOKED

[dark barn]

With this change im sure colossus will feel good (im in colossus rn, bored of thane)

[strong forum]

correct

[round pendant]

I was kinda looking forward to being forced to go ppal though

now I have no excuse so I'll just play ol' reliable

[bleak breach]

So will Colossus be the go to spec in all formats now?

[ruby musk]

I'm looking forward to trying colo

[dark barn]

i like to thought ppal as our natural enemy, only one protection must exist

[bleak breach]

Or is survivability still too low compared to thane for mythic prog?

[strong forum]

🎱

thane requires less brainpower to be tanky

[dark barn]

You can shield wall A LOT with IO in mythic prog playing colossus, the survivability is good

[bleak breach]

If the had a way to proc our tier without taking damage it could be so good, sad they didn’t change that.

[frosty holly]

We can live in peace. I love all the interrupts i can do when i pug as prot pala. Cus pugs sure as heck arnt interrupting

[bleak breach]

It’s okay, thane just saves you in a lot more situations.

[strong forum]

aint no "saving" aspect in thane

its just higher rage gen

[bleak breach]

Yeah

[strong forum]

but colossus get access to IO now

for essentially free

and has higher rage gen now comparatively

coupled with tierset for more colossal might stacks and larger IP it can be seriously competetive

[bleak breach]

Can’t believe they actually buffed bt

[dark barn]

guy is saying truths

[bleak breach]

Still mad about the tier, the effect overall sounds really nice though. Just sucks for raid.
Seems like a decent m+ tier though?

[dark barn]

the tier set helps in the rage economy in M+ a lot with Shield Charges

[bleak breach]

Yep

[strong forum]

you can get 2 shield charges out within 1 tierset proc if you get lucky resets of SS (should be more common now with the slight revert)

[ruby musk]

Are there new ptr notes or was it just the blue post on the nerf

[strong forum]

just this bluepost

[ruby musk]

Still good. Glad they were willing to walk some of it back.

[strong forum]

It took some effort but we got there

[round pendant]

wait so

After all this it turns out they actually just made thane and colossus closer and it's good actually?

[ember token]

is it me being tired or tier set SW proc + popping the same time SW (due to randomness of the first) is not adding up but overriding itself?

[mighty valley]

If you just really love pressing buttons fast you still lost out

But overall it seems good

[orchid mural]

brain fart, what is IO again -,-

[maiden raptor]

its still gonna be high octane, just hopefully no more just waiting around to press a button

[mighty valley]

Immovable Object, the other avatar endcap

[round pendant]

as long as I can still press something every gcd I'm fine

[mighty valley]

Same

[dark barn]

Maybe, after all the struggle, the class will feel better than before, it was a bit silly to spam ignore pain multiple times just for anger management

[maiden raptor]

there will still be plenty of IP spam

lots of free revenges and shield block

[round pendant]

less overall ip spam tho

[proud plank]

yeah i think IP spam is a bad design, but they just need to reallocate the APM somewhere else

[tribal wharf]

execute

[proud plank]

[tribal wharf]

can execute 50% and below and or above 90%, but either way it deals less dmg

[round pendant]

reverse execute on prot warrior sounds miserable

[tribal wharf]

double execute procs at execute range and bonus to execute dmg

[round pendant]

just play colossus and press IP less

feels good

I'm a colossus enjoyer now

[tribal wharf]

yogi just a warrior who want condemn back

i fucking love that

more for the dps

[livid meteor]

You hit me,I hit back harder ahah

[tribal wharf]

that how fury LFR was for me SL

run in, pop cds, condemn for all 10% hp,

probably die 70%

shadowlands has all kinds of abilities blizzard could re-use in the future

[cyan bronze]

think colly is just better now

myb

[dark barn]

team colossus

[cyan bronze]

is the strategist build live or no

i imagine not

[tribal wharf]

25% is a big number

[round pendant]

strat is workable again

[tribal wharf]

i mean, you pretty much HAVE to take it anyways

leads directly to SW

kinda important to us

[mighty valley]

9.0 was rough for tanks but at least prot condemn slapped

then they made it garbage

[tribal wharf]

i have to say, i hate earthquaker as col compared to boneshaker

i think that one is so much better

more stun and snares for kite, slowdown call it what you will

[small steeple]

just got enough crest for another 636 crafted. What should I craft?
https://raider.io/characters/us/stormrage/Badkad

[fickle dawn]

Yo prot wars, I heard you are the top apm. But is it mostly just a few of the same buttons?

I'm a main outlaw rogue and I enjoy high apm.

[full plover]

Yea but we're not top apm

[fickle dawn]

What is higher? I heard prot is the highest.

[full plover]

They just didn't like us hitting ingore pain

Idk about any specific data but I heard protpal is also pretty high

Wonder if we can pull avg APM from wcl or something

[fickle dawn]

Not even close to prot war

I heard

[small steeple]

ehhh

prot pal can be higher than pwar

[full plover]

I mean did anyone actually pull data for this metric?

[fickle dawn]

No we are just basing off players opinions

Atm

[small steeple]

no

[full plover]

Is that hard to do in WCL

[small steeple]

i saw a similation craft on sigle target, showing how many actions were done, to get an apm

[full plover]

I've only ever looked at my own logs a tiny bit

Like we could take a few samples from top key players of all specs and make a list

Idk do it by key level also

[small steeple]

https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/TWW1_Raid.html

[full plover]

Nice!

[small steeple]

keep in mind this is a pure single target patchwerk

[full plover]

So nerf rogue is what this tells me

Let's all go invade the rogue disc

[jagged gust]

So is SoTR the ppal version of IP?

Only thing I can think of that's inflating their APM so much

[full plover]

Its off gcd right?

[small steeple]

kinda, but it also does damage

yeah

[full plover]

I guess we technically have two abilities off gcd compared to other tanks then

Although I just macro block to shield slam so it's a non issue

Just trying to come up with blizzard's logic for this whole kerfuffle (maybe there isn't much)

[dark barn]

there's actually a lot of off-gcd skills in prot war: last stand, shield wall, avatar, spell block, spell reflect, challenge shout, berserker rage...

[chilly brook]

wut IO?

[potent anvil]

Immovable Object, I think? I could be wrong.

[full plover]

I just meant core rotational abilties

[pallid quiver]

not to mention that, like,
Ardent Defender/GoAK are off GCD, Survival Instincts is off GCD, Icebound is off GCD...
almost like all the major tank defensives are off the GCD, so that's not a reasonable comparison

since that's just how it is

[hardy snow]

I feel like Blizz is embarassing themselves with every next bluepost with "explanations".

[full plover]

Yea like it's the first time they played with the changes

[hardy snow]

Yet again they show that they don't know what is fun for majortiy of class enjoyers, they show they dont know how the spec works, they dont know how their ideas affects the spec etc.

[pallid quiver]

I didn't find anything too out of line in the most recent one. They mostly just said "We went too far, so we're pulling it back a bit to see how it goes"

[karmic plinth]

yea immovable object

[hardy snow]

I feel like it will go one of two ways in terms of our dmg, we either start with high dmg because they overcompensate on patch launch and then nerf us 3 times before 11.1.5. hits, or we start shit af because they undercompensate and then maybe they buff us in 11.1.7.

[round cliff]

wat does this mean

as in we're only good at doing dmg?

or we do less dmg

[muted basin]

Can someone explain why we want to take "into the fray" over "heavy repurcussions"? Is it just a dps gain? I tend to have times when my shield block isn't up with "into the fray" whereas I will always have shield block up with "heavy repercussions"

[hardy snow]

It's more dmg and more rage gain. If you can sustain shield block enough to get most (perfectly all) melee blocked without it, it's better to go ITF for both offense and defense. But if you don't have enough haste or just struggle to keep shield block up, it's better to play with HR, as keeping shield block is more important.

[toxic pewter]

have they announced the official end date of season 1

[hardy snow]

not yet

[toxic pewter]

ok thx

[muted basin]

Thank you! Yeah, maybe it's just me being nervous but I hate having to worry about not having shield block. With HR it is just always up which is nice

[full plover]

I get like 85+ % uptime on shield block with ITF, easily 100% with heavy repurcussions in most of my keys

[hardy snow]

Generally HR is the first pick here. You can try ITF if you get more comfortable with the spec and more haste. Without enough haste there is no way to keep up shield block all the time (but I don't remember numbers for that).

[muted basin]

Ah okay understood. Yeah I played with HR while I got usedd to the spec this season. Now I have cleared all 10s and have 637 ilvl so switched to ITF because it looked like most people played that way. But then I was just more worriedd about not having SB so went back.

[urban portal]

its just a lil more damage

if you arent comfortable dont force yourself

[round pendant]

It doesn't take until a .7 to get buffs

if something is underperforming at the start of the season it usually gets at least some buffs pretty quickly

I feel like you're dooming a bit

[hardy snow]

Yeah, I do

[strong forum]

[small steeple]

ive been told 17k-20k haste

[ruby musk]

For M+ would colossus take show of force or sudden death?

[small steeple]

sudden death would never be taken into m+

[ruby musk]

That's what I thought. I'm just tinkering with talents off of my raid build.

[hardy snow]

you can find good builds here: #1269007003469090878 message

[blazing zinc]

Hello, do you think it's worth gearing an alt (595 ilvl atm so almost fresh) right now or is it gonna be fast to catch up when Season 2 starts and it's not worth the time grinding & crafting with Gilded now? Thank you for any advice ❤️

[wicked pollen]

Good sir you can catchup to 620 in 5 days if you do a lot of keys

630 if you can get into a 4/8 and lucky with mythic gear

[blazing zinc]

ty!

[hoary glen]

I'm currently trying to understand the Spell Spell Block. Do I have to activate the ability with Shield Block or do I block all spell abilities that come my way in the 30 seconds and don't have to press anything else?

[waxen frigate]

you press it and then your block % is applied to spell block-able abilities

just like blocking melees

so with shield block up (which it always should be) you will be mitigating a significant amount of damage

[hoary glen]

ahh okay no i understand it

thanks!

[worthy briar]

I miss you guys now that I had to play Rsham for my guild Rsham discord sucks

[wicked pollen]

why is that

[worthy briar]

It's not put together as well as warriors and they mostly post cat memes

[pallid quiver]

sounds like an improvement tbh

[worthy briar]

I mean i guess I'm spoiled being a warr for so long have all of our good info and good players to now that shit show

[vague abyss]

idk what to take from this, but seems they really do intend to make mythic+ easier

so we arent so rage starved now?

(sorry i havent played since a month or so, waiting for season 2)

oh nevermind, just saw that they undid the nerfs to prot warr, crisis averted https://www.wowhead.com/news/further-update-on-protection-warrior-11-1-ptr-feedback-nerfed-too-much-369028

[pallid quiver]

That's only a partial reversion, and not even half of the nerfs we hit

It's 30% on live

[vague abyss]

awwww, so we are still bad? 😦

[pallid quiver]

And Outburst is still hit, Imp Wall is still dead, Booming Voice still reduced

It's better than it was after initial changes, but it's still going to feel super great.

Spec likely won't have dead globals without misplaying, though, at least

[vague abyss]

i really dont want to prot paladin. Loved being insta-invited in season 1, but if people will double-guess to invite me to groups then ill have to jump ship, as it sucks to be a meta chaser :/

[pallid quiver]

You're gonna jump ship almost guaranteed if you want to be mega super instant-invited

You already have the luxury of choice by playing a tank

Even if you pick the worst tank spec, you're still not playing queue simulator like DPS do

[vague abyss]

well thats fair, but it was nice to see the whole list of keys as a choice because almost every key accepted you in seconds lol

every key up to 10*, i dont bother doing higher keys have to add xD

at least not with pugs

[pallid quiver]

The large majority of groups who will instant invite you for being a meta tank spec to a 10 are not even the best of players on average

They're people who don't even really understand why a given spec is meta

[vague abyss]

fair, my guild leader is a prot warrior and he really struggles with it, god bless his heart but he haves severe hand issues and could barely do heroic raid and 7/8 keys. I think the nerf to slow down the APM was intended for those kind of players

[jagged pier]

but for that content he could just play colossus that was already 70ish cpm already

we already had a low apm option

[vague abyss]

bro my dude struggles to push buttons fast enough to keep his shield block up to more than 20% xD

[wicked pollen]

?????????

[jagged pier]

so the inital changes makes not difference anyway then

[wicked pollen]

respectfully that guy needs to change his binds

[vague abyss]

if you tell him to also add the extra button of colossus his brain will explode

[jagged pier]

and would have made it far harder for him to play the spec

as the inital changes made the spec far more punishing

[wicked pollen]

gm jakey

❤️

[jagged pier]

morning

[vague abyss]

yeah, but im essentially the new player in the community, is... kinda hard to tell the leader he sucks and should play something else or fix his stuff, he knows

but yeah heroic is easy enough, but sure he did a hell of a hard time learning how to heroic queen xD

they got legit aotc like 3 weeks ago iirc

[wicked pollen]

I think thats more lack of preparation than having hands

as warrior if you press shield block 1 time every 40 seconds you play the fight

[vague abyss]

ye i think so too, or lack of caring maybe? i learned how to tank this season, picked warrior becuase i already played fury and arms. Learned how to prot, how to bind, what to bind, macros to make life easier like the ignorepain/shieldslam and even made a few auras to to know when to dump rage

that made the first weeks of the season very easy for me in fact, when we were doing dps levels of damage and i was feeling near-unkillable :d

but im sure as hell im not a good tank, at least i barely pass blue in warcraftlogs, i have seen what a really good tank is. But im a dps main after all, so i focused on my warlock.

[sweet summit]

chat are we back

no way the feel they overshot the initial nerf that's crazy

[urban bane]

#protection message

[plush tendon]

I await for someone else to tell me if the changes are good/bad/equal

[fallow hinge]

Have anyone tested the new change? is there still empty gcds?

[urban bane]

nome isn't good enough for you 😭

[urban bane]

New change won't be live 'til next build I believe

[pallid quiver]

I can lie to you and say the changes overall are bad

[plush tendon]

well, its still in "development"

Prot be getting changes like every/every other week

[pallid quiver]

Even before the strategist readjustment, you still could manage to avoid dead GCDs

in the most recent PTR, I mean

It didn't feel good, but

[fallow hinge]

but that was only by pooling rage?

[pallid quiver]

you don't pool rage

you just didn't send on IP

you can't pool rage as Prot War without dead GCDs

unless you don't take devastator, i guess

[urban bane]

wdym you just spam whirlwind

(cursed)

[pallid quiver]

Whirlwind costs rage for us

[urban bane]

Oh fuck you're right

You just press Squeaky Bat

[pallid quiver]

The only ability we have that doesn't either cost rage or have a CD is Devastate

and we put that into devastator because that's better in every way possible

[maiden forge]

ah yes, the button that doesnt really exist

[weary saddle]

Somebody pin that

[tardy abyss]

Better?

[round pendant]

honestly now all they need to do is make IP bigger and a bit more expensive

[urban bane]

https://tenor.com/view/mute-discord-mute-shut-up-no-one-cares-muted-gif-18758159

[limpid tide]

You know, if we just had another wow refuge episode into FFXIV, the game would get better .

[knotty idol]

Apparently prot is doing less damage than some healers on PTR anyone else see this?

[round cliff]

wuh...

[ruby berry]

I did not see that. I was soloing a 16 workshop this morning and was able to maintain 3 million dps for 7 minutes.

[sweet summit]

fake news fr

[ionic nimbus]

So Colossus stonkz?

[ruby berry]

Colossus bangs

[sweet summit]

does colossus own or does thane stink

[ruby berry]

Only thing I've tested that does more damage is aldrachi and deathbringer. Thane is kind of sad in my experience on the ptr comparatively.

Aldrachi is supposedly having it's soul cleave combo doing bugged amounts of damage. Bdk does blast though.

[vocal cave]

aldrachi does 2x more dmg than it should on ptr

[small steeple]

I once saw a pwar in lfr who's top damage was slam, devastate (not devastator) and then the bleed, (mortal something)

[small steeple]

aldrachi is so bugged its funny

[vocal cave]

and since much of dh healing comes from leech via frality etc you legit cant test the spec

and time is running short xd

[small steeple]

Like, how do you make it so the soul cleave buff/amp from the tree doesn't get consumed, so it does uncapped aoe damage and each hit does as much damage as an execute/more

[strong forum]

#protection message

😉

[small steeple]

So overall, Col has been buffed and thane nerfed slightly?

[strong forum]

i would cautiously say so

colossus overall does gain more from 11.1 than thane does

that is a fact

[urban bane]

https://tenor.com/view/randy-savage-crown-nods-wwe-yeah-gif-16707535

[small steeple]

Very fun

Would this be what the talent tree looks like for m+ in 11.1 as it currently stands?

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-calc/warrior/protection/colossus/DAOAUVRBFRgYVKJRUBANVUVEVERFVZVUQDRAAEFVVUBQ

Not quite sure if bolster might be needed over Bloodsurge.

[strong forum]

almost

[ruby berry]

Definitely don't need bolster for sb uptime

[strong forum]

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/talent-calc/warrior/protection/colossus/DAOAUVRBFUgYVIpRUBANVUVEVERFVZVUQDRQAEFVVUBQ

this

wild strikes is vital

cruel strikes is uh, filler

[ruby berry]

I'd agree as well that HR is overkill, I've been using spear but definitely going to try roar tonight.

[round pendant]

we don't need hr?

[strong forum]

youll have enough haste

[round pendant]

or is it just cause we'll prob have enough haste next season

fair

[strong forum]

we lose circlet again

which means 18k haste would be rather easier to acquire

[round pendant]

are we actually losing it day 1

[strong forum]

no

not day1

itll get replaced by mythic ilvl rings

[small steeple]

oh man I didn't even see wild strikes.

[round pendant]

oh so I'm keeping it the entire season

didn't get a single myth ring this season

[small steeple]

Would 6/6 hero rings replace Circlet?

[strong forum]

nah doubt it

they will nerf circlet a bit

iirc

[cyan bronze]

idk if they will nerf it a ton

they said they wanted it to be rather good coming into next season

[strong forum]

its supposed to be equal to a heroic raid ilvl ring

[cyan bronze]

ye

[round pendant]

Kinda wack that if you don't mythic raid there's a very real possibility that you just don't get to replace it

[strong forum]

crafting/vault

[cyan bronze]

but that’s across specs

[round pendant]

I already have a crafted ring

and vault is the rng I'm talking about

[cyan bronze]

like could it be that currently on avg across specs it’s about on par w heroic ilvl?

[dusky canopy]

When will they just make mythic about achievement and cosmetic instead of ilvl

[cyan bronze]

or is it better than heroic ilvl for p much everyone

[small steeple]

Never? People want tangible rewards

[cyan bronze]

idk

idc about that

just separate m+ and raid gearing

like pve and pve is

please. I beg.

[round pendant]

simply let me trade my 3 mythic vault slots for a token that lets me convert a hero gear piece into mythic

[dusky canopy]

Forcing competitive M+ only players to mythic raid is bad

[round pendant]

deterministic gearing poggers

[lusty furnace]

Any colossus build on live to play for now in keys?

[strong forum]

practically the same

as linked above

https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/warrior/protection/colossus/DAOAUVRBFUgYVIaUUBQNVUVEVERFVZVUQDRRAEFVVUBQ

[dusky canopy]

I feel like this wouldn’t workout though because Pve is just pve

[cyan bronze]

Amen

[round pendant]

wait should I be pressing shockwave on CD as colossus

[cyan bronze]

I mean

It’s either that raid only players are forced to gerbil wheel m+

[dusky canopy]

I mythic raid every tier because I enjoy mythic raiding I just personally view the added ilvl bloat as an annoyance

[cyan bronze]

Or m+ only players are forced to take

[dusky canopy]

And it creates number crunch problems for them all the time

[cerulean tusk]

You really shouldn't separate PvE from PvE. PvE from PvP is bad enough.

Imagine if you couldn't do m+ in your raid gear or visa versa

[dusky canopy]

Yeah that would be giga bad

[cyan bronze]

better than being forced to idk

[cerulean tusk]

It would be confusing and annoying

[cyan bronze]

or just make m+ ilvl scaled and equalized(this has some other weird issues)

[cerulean tusk]

Those 3 ilvl diff from crafted to mythic track (if your vault luck is bad) isn't what will keep you from title

So don't worry about it

[cyan bronze]

not a good argument

[strong forum]

i think its the thing between your ears mostly

[remote anchor]

the dream

[dusky canopy]

[cyan bronze]

it was more egregious earlier in the tier when the only way to get the meta crest discount achievement was to raid

[cerulean tusk]

Argumentet is to not split the game modes further in the name of a "i think this matters even if it dont" change

[cyan bronze]

i mean I don’t see why m+ gives just worse gear than raid

[cerulean tusk]

Raid dont need m+ gear and m+ dont need raid gear. Exceptional items exist at times, like the legendary axe. But come on, even you got to agree that is ok

[cyan bronze]

(because if it didn’t it would force raid players to play m+)(and they cry really hard)

[dusky canopy]

Because they view mythic raiding as this thing that needs to offer the best gear in the game

[cyan bronze]

ig

[cerulean tusk]

It should tho, it is the core of WoW and how ppl interact with it. It is also the hardest to do

[dusky canopy]

I’m all for raid offering high value items just like I think m+ should offer high value items

Encourage doing both

[cerulean tusk]

M+ do very often have BiS pieces

[dusky canopy]

And have them both offer equivalent value

[cyan bronze]

i mean i just don’t fully agree that you should be able to get better gear doing a 4/8m clear than doing an 18 key

because mythic is “harder”

[dusky canopy]

The problem is in M+ you play the vault box lottery

[tribal wharf]

i heard they are nerfing the shit out of that

addon updates

[dusky canopy]

That’s why it’s like ok if everybody is at heroic ilvl then atleast you can target aquire the best items

[tribal wharf]

now we know who murdered my cpu

on the twins fight, during phase 3

while im healing

[round pendant]

You're not forced to do anything

[urban bane]

in my case empty space

[round pendant]

the only bad thing is that m+ players can't do anything but pray they get the slot they need and each week their odds of gearing fully just gets worse

[cyan bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-hank-scorpio-why-didn’t-i-think-of-that-gif-16665717301005834823

[cerulean tusk]

It is a larger time investment, there are more moving parts and a lot more people involved. It isn't "harder", it is harder.

[ionic nimbus]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-guy-relaxing-popcorm-popcorn-gif-26404903

[urban bane]

area between my ears is so dark you're liable to be eaten by a grue in there

[dusky canopy]

My brain capacity ends at “mortal strike is lit up SEND ITTT”

[cyan bronze]

I forgot a 4/8m clear is harder than title keys

my bad

[cerulean tusk]

If you saying a M12 is harder, you bad

[cyan bronze]

slipped my mind!

[cerulean tusk]

I am sorry

[strong forum]

fruitless discussion

[vocal cave]

thane gets random avatar procs incresed to 6 sec, no?

[dusky canopy]

It is fruitless yap yes

[strong forum]

ah true

good catch

[round pendant]

Only if you get it in myth track which is a gamble

[cyan bronze]

both also get more punish dr now

[strong forum]

mh

dunno if that is relevant

[cyan bronze]

ig

[cerulean tusk]

And I never got mythic aug either, it is what it is

[strong forum]

dunno if both will be sitting at 3 stacks perma or 1 has 1 extra stack more on average

[cerulean tusk]

Gamble is gamble

[tribal wharf]

LETS GO GAMBLING .... AW DANGIT, AW DANGIT.

[cerulean tusk]

It didn't stop me at all from playing the game. Only extremes do that, like the legendary axe

[dusky canopy]

The legendary thing needs to just be tossed out

Everybody in wow is too competitive now days

[round pendant]

It's still shit design

[cerulean tusk]

Kinda, yes and no. Problem was classes underperforming without it

[dusky canopy]

True true

[cerulean tusk]

No axe? Bottom meter DPS felt really bad

[dusky canopy]

Can’t let plate users be ahead can we

[strong forum]

dw

[cerulean tusk]

Very true, even with axe we were at best equal

[strong forum]

next raid is extremely unfair for melee

so we wont see play either way

[round pendant]

b2b shit melee seasons

[dusky canopy]

Atleast 100 people in the world will get the 2h off last boss at mythic ilvl!!!

[cerulean tusk]

Hell yeah

Is it the DoT or activate one?

Cause both are really underwhelming

Ain't no Gavel or Axe

[dusky canopy]

Rip gavel

[cerulean tusk]

It won't be missed

[tribal wharf]

"next raid is extremely unfair for melee"

now i understand why they buff mm

finally

out of nowhere

[cyan bronze]

has anyone tested the dungeon pool next tier for mdps here

[cerulean tusk]

Yep, why?

[cyan bronze]

how unfriendly is it

[dusky canopy]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/148898720803586048/1155181949372080168/gifntext-gif.gif

[cerulean tusk]

It is ok now

They fixed the worst of it

[cyan bronze]

I just want to play my silly dashing spec next tier

but don’t want to deal with my brain falling out

[dusky canopy]

DH IN THE CHAT

[cerulean tusk]

Oh you don't wanna dash

[dusky canopy]

[cyan bronze]

tbf

it’s a lot better than it was

[cerulean tusk]

You want that 1 pixel of safe space to stay in

[cyan bronze]

you don’t have to felrush anymore rly

[cerulean tusk]

Saved

[cyan bronze]

saved

the only forced movement is backy flipy and felblade which is way more playable

[tribal wharf]

apprehensionandevasion.mp3

[sweet summit]

AAAHHH! 😱 FUCK!!!

five Freddy jumpscare

javel

[wicked pollen]

he griefed my keys

[cinder marsh]

ok so im panicing

i just found the hidden prot war artifact appreance in this cave, iv been doing for years now, and i consumed it and its not in my appreances

what did i do wrong

WHY IS IT NOT IN MY APPREANCES!!!

its showing up in the forge of odyn but i still dont get why i cant tmog it

[small steeple]

look at the shield

if its like ppal artifiact transmog, its under the shield

[cinder marsh]

wdym all i did what pick it up right clicked got an achievment and thats it

[urban bane]

have you tried to relog?

[small steeple]

also, you may need to logout aan back in I rmember it took a few days to show up for me

[cinder marsh]

lemme try

[urban bane]

I vaguely remember having to relog before it showed up in tmog for me

[cinder marsh]

ok it worked ty

i shitted my pants

i was like after all these years it bugged on me

[small steeple]

I got it first try...

[cinder marsh]

damn

[small steeple]

I was like "that looks cool. went and it was there"

Then when I didn't see it, I looked up and saw how rare it was

[urban bane]

me farming for Taeshalach 👴

[small steeple]

Thats antorus right?

[toxic pewter]

i also still havent gotten it after a long time

[dusk tulip]

I just got told by a healer in a 11 i should be in defensive stance the whole time and have the cheat death talent, Is this as incorrect as i feel it is? haha

I know people start using cheat death in like super high keys but surely for a 11 it's not needed?

[urban bane]

yer

[urban bane]

🤝

[small steeple]

BsV is kinda niche

[cinder marsh]

so im doing balance of power and im at the part to where i need to be exalted with the suramar, doin the waning crescent questline and it wants me to do redistribution and all along the waterways and im at the spot where the questgiver should have them but they are not showing up any ideas why?

and also iv relogged

[small steeple]

do you need to do the whole argus questline on every alt? Or is it a 1 and done nowdays? I did it back when I was a baby wow player in bfa prepatch

[dusk tulip]

yeah i see people taking it at like decently high level but surely for an 11 it's just overkill lmao

[small steeple]

The rage and damage from ravager would honestly serve better. Until it's needed to stop 1 shots, I would think BsV isn't getting enough value because of how Pwar works

[jagged pier]

BSV no, but theres literally a very small benefit to being in battle stance

like pretty much negligable

[urban bane]

it is a chance drop from agrammar or whatever that dude's name is in the raid

[jagged pier]

so u may as well just be in D stance for giga free dr

[small steeple]

ah the 1st of the 2 titans we kill in that raid

Like, isn't it crazy that a TITAN isn't even the last boss of the raid. I mean kinda sorta but Argus was a whole nother level

[errant oriole]

is it true there is a lot of magic and bleeds in the new dungeon pool next season?

[shy python]

Was this nerf announced?

[urban portal]

Yes

A while back

Though that’s not really an issue

[shy python]

on 5 targets it's ~30 rage in 15 sec

[jagged gust]

15 seconds I imagine is gonna have quite a bit of variance to testing

[small steeple]

proc chance was increased though

[shy python]

Will Colossus be still behind Thane? Can we tell this already?

[small steeple]

check the pins

[sweet girder]

Wait just realized since i wasnt keeping up, we are getting nerfed cause WoW main community is 40+ now?

Insane.

[hardy snow]

We are getting nerfed, because blizzarde decide that they want prot warrior to be the entry tank for newbies/casuals, despite they already have guardian druid for that.

And Blizz isnt smart enough to figure out that newbie/casual is totally fine not playing prot warr at top performance. They won't die or something if they dont mass spam IP or waste some rage.

[sweet girder]

ye i saw the dumb reasoning, considering the newbie warriors i meet on my alts since forever being absolutely dogshit, i get their idea but rage regen wasnt the issue there.

but ruining my fun after 20 years to spam revenge more ??

[strong forum]

Crisis mostly averted

[cyan bronze]

What a conclusive test

[cyan bronze]

🔮

idk maybe they do another set of notes

[strong forum]

The pins explain it as close to the truth as possible without having proper benchmarks

Colossus stonks up, thane stonks slightly down

Time, numbers and encounters will tell the bigger picture

Especially after I played them

[cyan bronze]

just not worthwhile to worry about it atm to a full extent

when they could drop another huge note tmrw

[vocal cave]

is there patch date yet?

[strong forum]

Nope

Guesstimates are last week of Feb or early March

[cyan bronze]

it’s tmrw

[orchid mural]

easy now, i;m 40 and i hate the apm nerf.

[round pendant]

I will never understand people's enjoyment of pressing IP

[hardy snow]

imo strategist nerf is the worst thing there

good they are at least reverted it partially

[pallid quiver]

That's not even an imo, that's objectively the hardest nerf of the ones we got

It decreases the amount of shield slams by a lot, disproportionately affecting time time you spend generating rage as compared to spending rage, as well as hitting anything that relies on casting specifically shield slam as much as possible (HR, Imp Wall, etc)

[hardy snow]

yeah, and can create situation, where we have nothing to press so we can just stare at our char meleeing mobs, peak fun according to Blizz

[brittle sail]

Hello gang. I am trying to figure out prot warrior but literally JUST started the journey. What I am trying to figure out right now is what abilities I have for maintaining threat. I know about Taunt but I don't see, nor have I found through trying to research online, what else I can do to maintain threat, or to get AOE aggro in the first place, really. Any help or fingers pointing me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[weary saddle]

Taunt does not generate threat but instead just makes mobs come on you for a few secs. you mainly SS and TC to gain threat

[brittle sail]

Okay. Shield Slam and Thunder Clap. As kind of spam casts until I have enough Rage to dump?

I some dicky prot pally pulls threat, is Shield Slam enough to get it back? Or do I just wait for the pally to die?

If some...

[weary saddle]

if someone pulls aggro in middle of pull, u taunt the stray mob and just continue same rotation.

if someone pulls aggro at start of pull, you usually get aggro from regular rotation (cos your threat should ramp up and outpace the initial dps aggro)

[pallid quiver]

You do have an aggro multiplier on what you taunt for a bit

hence why if you're ever starting a boss, there's zero reason to not taunt it, since it just makes aggro comfier

[brittle sail]

Okay. That's enough to get started.

[pallid quiver]

Also, in general for AOE, we've got a lot of CDs that do burst, upfront damage to help you secure aggro outside of outliers like Enha Shamans pre-prepping a tempest and just sending it with no care.

This includes Ravager, Avatar will give you Thunder Blast if playing Thane, and Shield Charge just for basic more rotational buttons

If none of those are available, you can opt to send an outburst on Thunder Clap/Blast to help stabilize aggro if Thane. If absolutely nothing is available, you always have AOE taunt to fall back onto, as well

In general, barring the initial start of a pull with outliers (I bring up Enha Shamans pre-prepping tempests and sending it with zero thought once again), you shouldn't have too much issue with aggro if you're not direly outgeared and are performing the rotation well enough

If you run into issues with aggro, you'll probably want to revisit your rotation.

[brittle sail]

What AOE taunt?

[pallid quiver]

Challenging Shout

the warrior aoe taunt we're pretty much required to path through to get access to the left side of the spec tree

Also, I forgot about it, but we also have Spear/Roar for CDs, as well, so add whichever one you grabbed up with the Ravager/Shield Charge section above

[brittle sail]

Okay, I had CS button dragged over to the side yesterday trying to figure out which button to put it on. I forgot it was over there.

[mighty valley]

Maybe this is obvious but just in case you don’t know the basics yet… our threat is just based on damage done. So focus on getting good at your basic damage rotation, and you’ll be good

[pallid quiver]

I was thinking about that, but yeah, if you're coming from older WoW bits or other MMOs that have threat modifiers, most of the threat modifiers are straight baked into existing as a tank spec in modern WoW, so you keep aggro by just dealing damage. There are a few abilities that generate extra threat, but they're just pulling abilities, usually (like Heroic Throw for Prot War, since otherwise you'd get literally no threat with the damage it deals instead of 0+1 threat)

[brittle sail]

So PART of how I maintain aggro is by being a tank. Dealing my fair of damage, helps keep the mobs interested in me... Fair enough?

And SOME of the damage rotation is the similar to Fury, which I have been playing for a few months.
Thank you guys for your patience and your insight; I really appreciate the input.

[mighty valley]

All you really want to do is pull all the mobs, get them all to your chosen location, then do your max dps rotation and survive

While you’re learning just charging into one pack at a time is fine

[brittle sail]

Okay...I'm uh...ready to go. Put me in coach.

[mighty valley]

Every journey begins with a single step or whatever

[brittle sail]

Yeah, sumpthin like that

[pallid quiver]

A good way to get started is to review one of the guides on either Wowhead or Icyveins; they're both written by our main TCs for our spec, and both are good guides overall, as well. You can pick whichever you prefer the aesthetics of, honestly, and be pretty fine off.

[violet ginkgo]

luerce what is the consensus for darkflame cleft and priory?

[heavy sparrow]

for Stonevault 12+ do you guys recommend Spell block or Tough as nails

[pallid quiver]

Tough as Nails is massively outclassed anyway, and the last hallway specifically you can get a non-zero amount of use from spellblock on the stone bolt casts

[violet ginkgo]

spellblock all the way. I mean isn't in stonevault there are a lot of things can be spellblocked?

[pallid quiver]

oh i never answered this

I haven't heard much of opinions, but Priory is somewhat better with its most outstanding issue imo (Consecration)

but they still seem a little rough

[idle copper]

Shield charge in
Heroic leap in
Charge in

Shield slam and get shield block as soon as possible

Thunderclap

And then you are pressing your CDs on CD

As long as you are not faffing around no one should be taking threat from you.

Idiot DPS blowing CDs and trinkets as you get to the mobs is on them.

You can intervene/charge/throw out to get random mobs and then intervene (melee DPS) / charge / leap back to get back to the main pack.

You can use ravenger / Champion spear as a ranged way to try and get aggro back but it's not an efficient use of it - plus you'll likely find the DPS that is being chased by the mob is being a moron and still trying to DPS the mob rather than CC it

[sweet girder]

Haha, the people that would whine bout this, aint on here my man, i aint far from 40 also, i just dislike the excuse for the nerf.

[tardy abyss]

Please never Shield Charge oder leap into group of mobs lol

Especially the latter is horrible

[pallid quiver]

Leaping can be used sometimes to ensure multiple mobs enter combat at the same time to sync their casts. I think the only time that popped up was in ToJS in Dragonflight's revamped version of it, but

[idle copper]

Don't know what you mean sorry?

[pallid quiver]

Shield Charging to start a pack defeats about half the purpose of shield charge, since it's an aoe centralized on a mob, so you'll miss out on damage. On top of that, charge has a minimum range requirement, meaning you'll miss out on the extra rage from normal charge without doing some shenanigans to charge weave. If you weren't planning on planting where you were at, you shouldn't be shield charging, either, since you can just normal charge and then move. If a DPS starts blasting while their tank is charging and leaping around without any intent on staying to seriously hit it, that's 100% on the DPS

it is not like charge and leap are particularly subtle

[tardy abyss]

I only use leap in SV and NW to pull mobs, but I only jump close enough to not get hit while being able to TC / TB them for aggro

[idle copper]

Disagree sorry.

I'm not saying do it on every pack but the physical damage is 10 yards most packs that's 100% hitting all of them.

The physical dmg of charge is singular - SC is much better for snap aggro on the group.

The idiot DPS is 100% on them but knowing this doesn't make it anymore manageable.

Can't say I've found myself wanting for rage when I SC in.

[karmic plinth]

u can sc in melee range but u cant charge in melee

u lose nothing to to charge then sc

[pallid quiver]

The charge isn't about the damage; it's the rage

You also can't use both at the same time, either, or the game eats it.

[idle copper]

You lose the snap aggro.
It's got a use

[flint cobalt]

Surely you just charge and then immediately sc in this scenario and it provides the same effect you're claiming you lose+additional rage

disregarding how optimal/suboptimal it is to use it that way in the first place lol

[lilac basalt]

Is charge tc avatar tc not enough for snap aggro?

[sharp gale]

Yeah the design says to use it to open a pack, but reality not that obvious

[sharp gale]

Yes Tc avatar tc you don’t lose aggro

Specific situation if you do

[jagged pier]

I duuno if i havent got aggro i ither taunt the one mob or mass taunt is happens maybe once a dungeon

[sharp gale]

Exactly

[jagged pier]

Not like it happens all the time if it does happen all the time its likely you arent opening correctly

[sharp gale]

Like it happened to me in the beginning arcane mage take aggro like 2 times in a full dungeon, just taunt

Also, When you do big pulls/ multiple packs together, you don’t pull instant the 3 packs in higher keys anyway

[idle copper]

I do whatever I need tailored around whatever group of idiots I happen to be plugging with.

The bloke I answered originally was struggling with aggro.

I gave him some options

Other people are replying to me as if the only thing I do is SC in....

[pallid quiver]

people are moderately piling on you because of things such as
"u lose nothing to to charge then sc"

It's literally the same purpose as what you say to do, except you get more rage

There's a lot of other ways you can also establish aggro in the toolkit that still allows you to both get your maximum damage and establish aggro, as well

Putting shield charge slightly later also lets you use it to stop a cast, as well, since it stuns

Meanwhile, if you raw open with it, you do less damage since it's not under demo, so in a longer term scenario, it's less aggro

Which could be the issue, but we don't know based on what he said

Also, on raw open, it will not stop any casts since you'll stun them before anything

[idle copper]

You lose the snap aggro to the idiot that's already unleased AoE as you charge to the mobs.

I'd much prefer to save SC and use it as an interrupt as well.

There are lots things in your toolkit to establish group AoE yep - SC is one of them.

So is heroic leap, the other benefit of HL is it's range giving you (potentially) another global or 2 to get things going before the numpties join in

[pallid quiver]

My guy, if they blast before you've even charged to the mob, they are pulling for you

That's such a fucked up assumption to make is to assume that all their issues stem from people being so absolutely fuck-brained they can't even wait for the tank to go in

That's really a "go next" situation, because the DPS simply isn't playing the game at that point

That's not even they start ripping before you've finished gathering

that's just them choosing to try and tank

Heroic Leap also does not help with aggro in any meaningful way, as the damage it contributes is pitiful, almost charge level range

It would technically be a DPS up since it can be used oGCD to use it to hit mobs, but you don't see anyone arguing for that

[idle copper]

It helps because it gives you time....

[pallid quiver]

The issue with why people pile on you is because while you think you are presenting logical arguments, they're actually forced situations you're creating to justify the argument in the first place. His issue isn't "the DPS are pulling for me, what do"

[pallid quiver]

Have you played a ranged class

do you know how far a ranged class can hit mobs from

do you know how far leap goes

[idle copper]

You are allowed to adapt to the run you happen to be on though yep??

Or you just go I'm only ever gonna charge in because I'll miss out on 20 rage?

[idle copper]

Again you are talking absolutes. I'm talking about adapting to whatever pug I happen to be in

[tardy abyss]

But still inefficient for SB uptime

[flint cobalt]

.

[pallid quiver]

I mean SB stacks so you could still Charge+Avatar+SB, then SC once you hit melee range

[idle copper]

My shield block uptime is never lower than 97%
Edit: on details anyways

[pallid quiver]

You're overkill on SB uptime anyway as long as you're rocking HR

[waxen frigate]

Mines never lower than 98% loser

[tardy abyss]

HR kek

Dunno, I would never want to waste a GCD on SC on pull

Charge + Rav feels way better in every way

[pallid quiver]

I mentioned Rav in my initial write up, though a non-zero amount of people give up Rav for BSV

[tardy abyss]

But knowing peeps only a few here play Rav anyway

[idle copper]

I'm aspiring to get it to be 98%..

[pallid quiver]

but even without Rav, you can even just Avatar into TB and be fine to start rotation

[waxen frigate]

I don’t think you have it in you, kid. Heh. Try to prove me wrong though.

[tardy abyss]

Cringe BSV users

[pallid quiver]

There's literally just a point where it's just the DPS' problem they need to solve in order for runs to work. It's like if your healer just decides to jump off a platform and repeatedly kill themselves to brick the key. Like, ultimately, it's just go next

[tardy abyss]

ye

[pallid quiver]

If someone is doing their absolute damndest to throw

[tardy abyss]

Tho pwar has the least issues with aggro imo

[pallid quiver]

that's life in pug-landia if you can't ascertain the reasons people are playing with

[tardy abyss]

Since we can use TB really early

Almost back to back even

[lilac basalt]

I had 1-2 pug groups in which the dps blasted the moment I even looked at the next group. Asking them to wait a sec for me to build aggro usually helps.
Communication in pugs is really important.

(Letting them die is also a way of communicating it 🫣)

[daring geyser]

Not very relevant, but what reason is there to do the max level campaign in TWW? Does it unlock anything substantial?

[waxen frigate]

If I can heal an 8DB on my 607 paladin and have my entire guild laughing at my stream because of how clueless I am, anyone can

[quiet monolith]

Excited to test the new shield slam reset percent

[sweet summit]

omg nate hii i'm a big fan

[onyx vessel]

[tribal wharf]

if i ever stream hc wow im gunna pay someone to creat me a morshu vtuber avatar and ai voice changer,
keep seeing clips, looks fun, cant commit

world first morshu streamer

i would never be able to decid what class to play, each has downside

[round pendant]

Warrior

https://tenor.com/view/mujikcboro-seriymujik-gif-24361533

absolute CBT gameplay til whirlwind/mortal strike

[jagged gust]

vtubers scare me

[cunning oriole]

Has anyone started to put together a guide or reference to how playstyle is going to change? I've seen a few vids, but nothing that says "you'll need to prioritize doing this, instead of that". Or is it still too early?

[tribal wharf]

eh, people have been avatar streaming for a very long time as it is

[cerulean tusk]

Nothing changed as far as I know. You still play under the same umbrella of goals. Only difference is the amount of GCD going into SS

[tribal wharf]

i figure i would want to play rogue the most

best roach potential

yogi is the god of roaching out

okay, so, paladin and hunter, some of their abilities straight up just kill you

so fuck that, thats already 2 classes down

that leaves like, warlock, hunter rogue priest for me, doubt i'd do druid or shaman

[jagged gust]

Doesn't vanish have like spell hit rating or something and can be resisted?

My money is on mage, you've got blink, frost nova, ice block

[tribal wharf]

vanish CAN fail

but you also have evasion 50% dodge and sprint base line

sprint is the hugest most over powered roach potential in the game bar none outside direct teleport out

cuz you just run out of range and keep hold W to instance portal

they cant hit you, you dont die

its a good idea to do this as a dwarve, as dwarfs in classic can self cleanse EVERYTHING but magic and curse stoneform >> vanish >> evade if melee'd first, sprint if casted at first, then maybe evasion

and also, rogue automatically upgrades ranks, since it costs the same energy, only goes to 100

[jagged gust]

I feel like you'd wanna pop evasion every time, errant backhits from a failed vanish while runninh or something

unless you can sidestrafe, i dunno how dazed mechanics definitively work

[tribal wharf]

vanish is powerful if done right

[dense remnant]

When youre doing a pull in m+ where you havent been able to store rage from previous pull, are you guys doing the charge - avatar - shieldblock - demo shout - spear - thunder blast start, mentioned on icyveins? or is there a different way to get shieldblock up faster/without losing the thunderclap reset from avatar, or using shield charge?

or do you just pop wall on pull, and proceed to delay having shield block up for a bit?

[violet ginkgo]

pop wall on pull is nice yeah...

I mean later considering we will take the double wall talent you can always Wall first and save the 2nd wall for something like if add got nasty tankbuster

[jagged gust]

I mean that rotation kind of assumes it's a singular, gathered pack

Honestly I'm just throwing out a bunch of revenges to spread deep wounds and thunderclaps for bleeds while charging and leaping between packs

[dense remnant]

yeah, i was hoping for some more explanation/suggestions for different situations on the guides, but at least for now i cant see many different options

[jagged gust]

My preferred pull when grouping packs is charge+TC+revenge first pack, charge+avatar+TB+revenge seconds pack then leap revenge TB third pack

[dense remnant]

that makes sense ye

im specifically wondering about what to do with the shield block

[round pendant]

just keep it up at all times

🤷‍♂️

[dense remnant]

learning to play the spec at 605 ilvl in +10s feels a little rough sometimes, so i assume these arent rly things that are issues with a bit more gear

i was referring to how you guys get rage up in the first pull of the m+, or if there's a big wait time and cant pool rage

[pallid quiver]

If you need shield block while gathering, your easiest way to get it is charge+avatar

[jagged gust]

First pack just hold for a moment, you'll have enough rage to gen SB with charge+Avatar

[round pendant]

charge avatar

[pallid quiver]

Which instantly gives you enough rage to SB

[dense remnant]

yeah, okay, thats what i was basically asking, how int is charge + avatar

[round pendant]

not int at all

very little downtime between packs when gathering so just keep dpsing and it's fine

could also just shield wall if you're scared

[pallid quiver]

HR if you have it and the passive rage gen from more charges + TC to gather mobs will help maintain it if you're gathering multiple packs until you settle

Which like yam mentioned, generally isn't very long

[jagged gust]

yeah SW is fine on opener, its the point you're taking the most damage anyways so you want it up

[pallid quiver]

You only tend to spend a lot of time gathering mobs if you're going turbo big

[dense remnant]

i just copied a build from archon higher keys, which meant i have been running with into the fray for now, which i guess isnt optimal with low haste

[pallid quiver]

no

no it is not

[round pendant]

you're inting by picking top key builds

[jagged gust]

your SB uptime will suffer

[round pendant]

😔

[pallid quiver]

It also didn't stop some of those people from picking ITF before they could maintain shield block without HR, but just goes to show that minor things like active mitigation gaps are not really what's gonna stop you from timing keys

[dense remnant]

generally theyre much safer than whatever wowhead/icyveins suggests on other tanks classes ive noticed

but also i do like having BSV instead of ravager at this ilvl while learning, much less faceplanting while learning

even if its less dmg

[pallid quiver]

They're more geared towards bursts of extremely heavy damage intake in a short period of time, as high keys generally solve a lot of their issues by doing very scary big pulls that get coordinated controlled down so as to get more use out of DPS burst

[round pendant]

I pray for the day where talent trees have no noob traps

[pallid quiver]

And a lot of talent picks for those situations is actually less survival in day-to-day choices

[dense remnant]

would you consider impenetrable wall vs defender's aegis a noob trap?

[dense remnant]

okay, yeah that makes sense

[pallid quiver]

A good example in live is Defender's Aegis versus Imp Wall; you get a lot more DR over the source of a key with Imp Wall, but Defender's Aegis lets you have Shield Wall up back to back if need be

[round pendant]

which you basically never need in +10s even at 600 ilvl

[pallid quiver]

BSV also generally doesn't do much to actually help save people in lower keys due to the damage difference

[dense remnant]

you might underestimate my ability to fuck up 😄

[round pendant]

I'd rather fuck up and learn than have a crutch

but that's just me

it's fine to pick whatever makes you most comfy

[dense remnant]

having that button light up is a big enough slap in the face for me

[pallid quiver]

It gets more useful due to the potential of spiking to death off mistakes as you go higher up, but technically ravager's always the more optimal choice

Since it provides rage to cycle for AM, giving more mitigation overall

[dense remnant]

im sure i'll gravitate towards more dmg and that playstyle after i get a bit more comfy and gear

[jagged gust]

oh actually yeah, the free revenge talent, now there's a noob trap

[dense remnant]

hoping to get a mythic shield tomorrow, which i guess should help, going from 613 to 639 ilvl on shield?

[pallid quiver]

It's harder to remove the band-aids than it is to start without them and apply them afterwards for most people as a warning

[vocal cave]

after patch big chance you will play neither of the 2

[pallid quiver]

yeah, big help

[round pendant]

even 626->639 shield was huge

literally felt like I was taking 20% less damage

[pallid quiver]

Shield is the only source of block value from gear, and our main mit is blocking, so

[dense remnant]

yeah i agree as a general point, but currently just being able to not floorpov that much is a bigger point on enjoyment of the spec comparatively

[jagged gust]

Next patch I'm dropping DA for both bloodsurge and instigate and not looking back

[dense remnant]

i literally have no reference frame for armor or block numbers, so good to hear that some thigns are gonna get easier

[pallid quiver]

Bloodsurge is still getting hurt next patch, and DA gains value with SW's reduced CD

So the CDR attached to DA becomes more valuable

[pallid quiver]

Don't worry, armor and block numbers are made up, anyway

Blizz has a funny tuning knob called the k-value that determines how effective armor and blocking and what-not even is per difficulty level

[maiden raptor]

has anyone played around with the Tome of Light's Devotion trinket?

[jagged pier]

There is no play around

U press it to get douboe swords

[maiden raptor]

so it just bangs?/

[jagged pier]

And keep it on double swords as long as possible

Yes

A 593 version does around 40-45k dps right now

On a raid encounter

Where u can keep it in swords for longer

[round pendant]

tf

[jagged pier]

Nome did say at the start of the expansion

The trinket is giga over tuned

[round pendant]

first I'm hearing about it lmao

[maiden raptor]

maybe it just feels overtuned cause everything else is butt cheeks

[jagged pier]

I linked a screenshot of it when i equpied it on queen prog for memes the other day

It is an exclusive raid trinket tho

Cause youll get hit out of swords in dungeons a lot

And the defensive part is do do

[wicked pollen]

gm jakey

[jagged pier]

evening

#protection message here

[tribal wharf]

tome of light*'s devotion*

wonderful

cuz, you know, its for paladins and all

i mean clearly right

[toxic pewter]

what is tome of ligth devotion

[wicked pollen]

tank trinket from priory of the sacred flame big dam

[toxic pewter]

wat it do

[wicked pollen]

BIG FUCK DAM

[toxic pewter]

how

[jagged pier]

It gives u crit and prpcs damage

But when u use the on use of it, it doubles the effect

[toxic pewter]

sounds cool

[tawdry fjord]

Shield slam buff, gonna matter?
Not sure if im going prot warrior next season for m+ after getting so much hate by Irls telling me how bad it Will be x)

I blame petko list

[sweet summit]

probably playable idk i haven't tried it myself

[toxic pewter]

We gonna be strong

[sweet summit]

okay buddy

[tawdry fjord]

Haha, are we do?:p

[abstract iris]

25%, a good comprimise. Seems like prot will be decent next patch

[cyan bronze]

worth nothing it’s a LOR of crit with very high uptime, and the proc is very big fuck

[strong forum]

its overtuned cuz nobody knows about it

and its tuned around not having 100% uptime on dmg part

but uh, you can reliably game it

its tuned around 50% uptime

so yeh 3k crit perma + 80-100k dps proc

at 678ilvl, pretty neat!

[maiden raptor]

its bis

[strong forum]

always has been

[cyan bronze]

yea it’s so good

im rather convinced people won’t run it in favor of like scrapfield bombsuit because tank players are terrified of anything that does damage(they’ll ignore the magic shield)

[strong forum]

other way around

they will run the magic absorb more often than not

cuz big on meters

[cyan bronze]

isn’t the magic absorb on crit phase

& defense phase is like

armor?

[strong forum]

no

[cyan bronze]

ah

[maiden raptor]

armor and magic absorb

[strong forum]

magic absorb + armor