did they nerf ppal?
#protection
pallid quiver
As far as I've heard, not really, and I've heard its tier makes it even faster
cerulean tusk
I almost expect them to be, with all the outcry. But they ain't warrior...
If it was warrior, ya know we be nerfed. We get so when we need buffs all the time
pallid quiver
I still can't get over the fact that people complained about Prot War's speed, but were fine with Prot Pal
cerulean tusk
Cause they parrot what ppl say based on APM on logs in a video from 2022 
It will prob be 🦜 till after WoW2.0 release
fallow hinge
I just dont get why they dont wanna give warr better utility
cerulean tusk
Depends on the kind you want. Would we like to see our fear immune actually work with unlimited range and lasting duration? Sure!
Heroism and CR, cleanse? No.
Should they implement things to shattering throw? Yes.
fallow hinge
not sure what havent given it much thought, but something to compete with dk and pala util
pallid quiver
I just dont get why they dont wanna give warr better utility
We already technically have a lot; we've got some of the highest amount of hard stops available to tanks between Storm Bolt, Shockwave, and Shield Charge alone, and then you can add in Int Shout after that
The issue is that they nerfed hard stops so mobs just instant recast, and Int Shout is like one of the only AOE stops in the game that's target capped
Normal interrupts are just so much better as a result
cerulean tusk
Hard stops are generally bad in pugs, if you can't chain them till the mob is dead 
fallow hinge
for one they could make changes to the talent tree so the aoe silence taunt is more lucrative to take
pallid quiver
It's more of an aoe interrupt is important to note
cerulean tusk
You mean by making it a silence?
pallid quiver
It'd be a lot better if-
Yeah that
If mobs ain't casting at the same time, you're not getting everyone to stop
fallow hinge
lol it doesnt even silence xD
ember token
Bring Vigilance back.
fallow hinge
rarely use it so I didnt know lol
pallid quiver
On the bright side, if they insist on everything constantly casting at your ass, it'll effectively be an aoe silence :L
cerulean tusk
Now you know, we got stuff, it just ain't fixed or catered for in design
That is the problem
Not us not having heroism
pallid quiver
The environment doesn't work as well for our kit, and then we're also just being smited by the powers that be for reasons
karmic plinth
we have a lot of utility that isn't often worth taking for how little it comes up
toxic pewter
i think they removing the rage cost increase in 11.1
karmic plinth
oh word
cerulean tusk
He prob talking live tho
cerulean tusk
Damn diva being a diva
pallid quiver
Anyhow, yeah, free damage in revenge
cerulean tusk
Yay
cyan bronze
the tierset buff is nice
karmic plinth
people talk about bad talents all the time here u can never be sure
toxic pewter
so if we get 25% crit baseline ss will crit every time with 4 piece
pallid quiver
Like a on-zero amount, too
we might be heading for a funny world where colo is the pick
cyan bronze
so if we get 25% crit baseline ss will crit every time with 4 piece
that’s so much demolish cdr
man
karmic plinth
i think they will be more equal now for sure
toxic pewter
are they getting nerfed i skip pala notes
cyan bronze
yes in datamining
karmic plinth
maybe we can drop ED<:clueless:1099922541923024997> <:clueless:10999225419230249...
u could 200% drop it for raid
toxic pewter
good
cyan bronze
less cdr, less parry
cyan bronze
u could 200% drop it for raid
yeah idk for m+ tho
maybe we get enough sb tho with tier
cerulean tusk
75% given crit is shitter design. Give 100%, not like there's a stat budget affected
toxic pewter
do you think we will run battering ram since shield charge gonna be poppin off a lot
cyan bronze
no
karmic plinth
what do we drop to get it
cyan bronze
it’s so hard to take
karmic plinth
tough call
toxic pewter
yeah true tough to get
jagged gust
the 4p was very underwhelming, this change was positive but you shouldn't be pogging about it
cyan bronze
the 4p was very underwhelming, this change was positive but you shouldn't be pog...
ok you aren’t colossus pilled I see
karmic plinth
indom for raid maybe if u hate ur healer
cyan bronze
getting 6 stacks in 3 ss
toxic pewter
im a colossus man myself
cyan bronze
I love hitting demolish and shield charge every 3 seconds
toxic pewter
do you think we will work to get 25% crit and then swap to like versa or just go all crit haste as usual
i may just go to 25% crit
karmic plinth
crit haste as usual prob
cyan bronze
idk
karmic plinth
u have other abilities u want big crits on
jagged gust
Kind of hard not to be 25% crit in S2
toxic pewter
yeah I dont doubt crit haste will prob be best still i guess
i just feel that 25% breakpoint is nice
cyan bronze
All I know is
paladin nerfed
Mashallah
30->15% cdr seems like a lot,5% parry->3% seems like a bit
toxic pewter
good
river spade
Btw ptr is still down to see what new IP does?
cerulean tusk
New IP?
hardy snow
there is no "new IP" in current dev notes
flat garden
30->15% cdr seems like a lot,5% parry->3% seems like a bit
Increases the cooldown of bubble / lay of hands but the 4P gives palas more cool down reduction as you can spam SotR like a degenerate when it procs so might not be as bad as it sounds
The parry will hurt a bit but not a game changer I reckon
hardy snow
never trust anything<a:chatting:1266019851743399996>
it's not the matter of trust, this wowhead's datamining bullshit doesn't matter
it's just some "data" copied from files
cyan bronze
sure
however it’s already in #updates-midnight
the rhetoric is rather inconsistent
sleek prawn
Hello guys, do we spam impending victory in keys or when we need it only?
cyan bronze
you rather should post it in the update channel, and then tell people not to trust the thing posted in the discords update channel
just poor inconsistency
cerulean tusk
Prot just desperate to put up some notes to soothe the seething masses with bread
cyan bronze
Increases the cooldown of bubble / lay of hands but the 4P gives palas more cool...
spellwarding cdr loss hurts
just means less coverage for the party
flat garden
spellwarding cdr loss hurts
Yeah it does.
Will need to be more creative to survive fights like the caster boss in theater of pain ahah
cyan bronze
Do they still do more burst damage than a Fury Warrior tho?
no
their dmg is a lot worse
they lost their tierset which gave them quite a bit of damage
their dmg seemed middling on ptr
cerulean tusk
VDH likely gonna be meta, if they follow the recipe
cyan bronze
VDH likely gonna be meta, if they follow the recipe
haha i get it
cerulean tusk
We got week 1-3, then pally takes it home. Next is druid for the start, replaced by DH
cyan bronze
what with their new bad magic mit and dmg loss when they were already ass for dmg in keys
cerulean tusk
Week 1, they will rise! Then VDH just leaps over the competition
cyan bronze
they’ve already fallen
cyan bronze
Mashallah I was sent this for expecting prot warrior changes this note
jagged gust
Instigate buff is kinda interesting tbh
cyan bronze
yeah you play it m+ now I believe
jagged gust
Yeah it's kind of huge innit
Do you drop SB uptime or DA for it? I can't really see how else to grab it
cyan bronze
bloodsurge is what nom said I think
jagged gust
that sounds shortsighted
cyan bronze
why
nom said it’s more rage until ridiculously high tcount
dropping DA is insanity @60 sec cdr on sw
and maybe you can drop ED for it
depends on how much sb uptime we have from set tbh
jagged gust
Yeah I'm sure they're quite close, but it's like they just shifted a little power over from one to the other, so what was the point?
Taking both would be incredible, because that's actually an incredible amount of rage being fed back in to our rotation
but without that choice it's just kind of a silly thing in the end
small steeple
this a typo? Seems to imply current build, ignore pain literally makes shields of size 0
jagged gust
Well that's one way to fix the problem with IP
rain light
ignore pain now removed
small steeple
VDH likely gonna be meta, if they follow the recipe
one could say... vdh always has meta.....
granite pond
replaced with React to Pain
rain light
replace ignore pain with deathstrike
cerulean tusk
Deathstrike actually wouldnt feel as bad on warrior, as we dont get 1shot by whites
small steeple
Deathstrike actually wouldnt feel as bad on warrior, as we dont get 1shot by whi...
As a bdk main I can confirm that's what vamp blood, drw, and rune tap are all for...
cerulean tusk
All fun and games till whites get synced and your purg pops and overkills you through servertick calcuations
small steeple
All fun and games till whites get synced and your purg pops and overkills you th...
At that point, something else has already gone wrong
cerulean tusk
PuGs gonna do their AoE stops, at high dims, that doesnt give you time to react - it is what it is
Staggering out melees is a skill, sure, but boy do I prefer just blocking em
waxen frigate
one could say... vdh always has meta.....
Meta this, meta that, you ever met a fucking woman before? Jesus Christ man
tardy abyss
Meta this, meta that, you ever met a fucking woman before? Jesus Christ man
y u heff to be med
waxen frigate
y u heff to be med
Sorry I’m just trying to crash out so that I can lock in even harder later
tardy abyss
Truly a gamer
waxen frigate
waxen frigate
https://tenor.com/view/jim-and-pam-yes-gif-21499107
Okay carry on
jagged pier
pallid quiver
yeah, pickable talent now
and if you're colo
stonks
I'm tellin' ya, we're somehow gonna get a Colo preferred season at this rate.
ionic fern
I'm tellin' ya, we're somehow gonna get a Colo preferred season at this rate.
Looks like it.
pallid quiver
Yeah, but now you'll have to tell people to do it even for high keys
jagged pier
ive done alot as both
pallid quiver
because they're just gonna take thane out back
strong forum
THAT i dont know about
however
the neat thing called Immovable Object
is a VERY realistic pick for colossus
cuz that 1 point doesnt give a lot of dmg anywhere for colossus
pallid quiver
I'm just saying, if these trends continue...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6LOWKVq5sQ
strong forum
so you getting SW on 35s CD via Avatar
- DA + Tierset
means a casual 30%+ SW uptime
(i had 30% SW uptime without DA or Imp wall on ptr already)
vocal cave
at long last 8/8 
strong forum
saving the hardest boss for last i see
vocal cave
+1
karmic plinth
are there numbers for uf vs io for colossus on ptr
karmic plinth
strong forum
pallid quiver
The 5% size difference stonks rising
karmic plinth
fucking hell
strong forum
(thats good)
hardy snow
hardy snow
the cursed version is playing Roar + Spear tho
strong forum
i highly recommend against that
pallid quiver
hey we heard y'all don't like how many buttons prot war has
karmic plinth
is that with no capstones on eahc
pallid quiver
so simply opt into
another button
strong forum
full spear is full spear
if that isnt clear
No uproar + EM is, without uproar but elysian might!
bronze wraith
How big of a win isnthw new tier set for us?
strong forum
about tree fiddy
comes down to uptime/proc rate of 2pc
and for 4pc to work at all
pallid quiver
It sounds like they at least fixed the crit rate based on the post in the updates section
strong forum
not gonna make any claims, but its going to be more viable than this season, and even more damage compared to thane
colossus stonks are certainly up
vocal cave
now revert execute change for colossal might pls
errant oriole
as far as offense thats cool, but is survivability going to be an issue ?
small steeple
How DOES colossus play compared to thane? (This season and ptr) I've only used Colossus on low keys
Like survivability and damage and stuff
errant oriole
What I mean is... will I take more dmg as colossus?
vocal cave
How DOES colossus play compared to thane? (This season and ptr) I've only used C...
is as good vs physical, weaker vs dot/magic
strong forum
it remains fact that thane gets more rage and thus more IPs, but it comes down to dungeon design how well we do
ive played colossus full dmg build this season until 14s and my surv has not been an issue whatsoever
errant oriole
oh
strong forum
you will eat more naked hits but you make up for it in terms of leech and BrV value
vocal cave
and stronger critical blocks
strong forum
especially the 30% IP buff works greatly in favour of Colossus because of the 20% buff colossus has innate
vocal cave
I have like 30% crit block and it shows
strong forum
the crit blocks do go a long way in huge pulls
errant oriole
oh?
strong forum
and the consistent phat aoe dmg
errant oriole
I may try colossus on live >_>
strong forum
like for ultra pulls, colossus should in theory be stronger than thane
because you do so much more dmg
pallid quiver
shame you'll just get the group or even yourself killed from 700 casts
small steeple
you will eat more naked hits but you make up for it in terms of leech and BrV va...
BrV? This is on live you use colossus? Kinda interested to try it, does it want different stats?
pallid quiver
since even critters have to have mechanics and casts these days
strong forum
Brutal Vitality
pallid quiver
BrV? This is on live you use colossus? Kinda interested to try it, does it want ...
It doubles down even harder on Haste/Crit than Thane does
strong forum
but ive only really done like 2 NWs in the past 2 months
so, maybe i could do a lot more if i tried
small steeple
On live, does colossus use IP less than thane (I mean besides due to the reduced rage amount)?
strong forum
yes
hardy snow
so, maybe i could do a lot more if i tried
go for 2m champ 
cyan bronze
@strong forum think about how much demolish cdr we get now assuming tierset buff is real and not fake
strong forum
yeh
strong forum
it should be, i specifically pointed out that that talent would be turbo detrimental if left unchecked
cyan bronze
also I was wondering
strong forum
cyan bronze
how close are we to being able to drop ED
strong forum
we arent
cyan bronze
with SC cdr getting so insane
jagged pier
u arent
cyan bronze
ah
cyan bronze
wasn’t sure what sb uptime was looking like w/o it tho
cyan bronze
is KINDA large YKNO
it’s large ye i just was wondering if we had it so high(above 100%) that dropping it wouldn’t drop sb much
but ye
pallid quiver
ED is by far and large the biggest defensive talent
I keep having to tell people this; it's really hard just to say how good ED is for SB uptime and get people to understand
strong forum
yeah
and it double dips with HR
cuz well, 33% more time to squeeze SS procs into the window
so, if you get 200% block with HR
switchting to just HR, will suddenly mean you drop down to 120% or less
cyan bronze
hr
small steeple
hr?
cyan bronze
pain
strong forum
like
ED is worth 33% haste
instead of 67% haste for 100% uptime, youd need 100% haste without ED
strong forum
no clue either cuz it never worked thus far
but even getting 50% CDR on SC
wouldnt be enough to drop ED
small steeple
HR?
strong forum
Heavy Repercussions
strong forum
Hamlet Rammstein
cyan bronze
Hamlet Rammstein
Wrong
small steeple
ah ty
cyan bronze
strong forum
then you can drop indom
cyan bronze
& not take indom?
strong forum
ye indom is the point you drop to pick up battering ram
cyan bronze
or was tree dif then
strong forum
tree was dif
cyan bronze
ye indom is the point you drop to pick up battering ram
yer
strong forum
Enduring Alacrity was dogshit
cyan bronze
Oh right
strong forum
4% armor 4% stam and 1% haste
then they nerfed Battering Ram by 50% and buffed EA by 100%
karmic plinth
think it was 5% but it got buffed to 10% in late df
strong forum
i run battering ram in raid 24/7
strong forum
instigate
karmic plinth
br used to be 20% / 20% instead of 20% / 10%
cyan bronze
i love our self healing without indom in m+
mild river
The new buff to our 4 pieces tier set is huge, no?
hardy snow
i run battering ram in raid 24/7
instead of indom?
shut summit
it's huge compared to the hotdog water it was before
strong forum
ye
strong forum
yeah 100% crit rate SS is nice
cuz i aint playing less than 30% crit so
big damooj
(and also damage reduction from demolish ofc)
cyan bronze
it’s gonna be a real shame when blizz sees ppl playing colossus in keys at start of s2 and then they give a massive thane buff
(and still manage to have us be dogshit)
strong forum
dont worry about that
ionic fern
Both hero talents being good? Can't see that being bad.
cyan bronze
Both hero talents being good? Can't see that being bad.
no they’ll give us a 30% aura nerf & then give thane compensation buffs
mild river
I tried colossus but it's soooooo slow. I can't lol
ionic fern
It feels slower since you don't use IP as much,but instead send it on Revenge.
strong forum
^
cyan bronze
I tried colossus but it's soooooo slow. I can't lol
i usually counteract this by taking extra adderall
ionic fern
But if you look at the cpm it's not a huuuge difference.
cyan bronze
But if you look at the cpm it's not a huuuge difference.
oh so now xyz number isn’t huge
that’s not what ur fricking m*m said
ionic fern
urban bane
wouldnt be enough to drop ED
I wish i could drop ED (cursed)
cyan bronze
I wish i could drop ED (cursed) <:critcake:984549832511344640>
you can’t drop something that can’t get up in the first place
urban bane
👴
drowsy narwhal
what is ED? Enduring Defenses?
urban bane
yea
karmic plinth
ed not being baselined i think is a really odd choice
abstract iris
"Bloodsurge now causes damage from Deep Wounds to have a chance to generate 3 Rage." did this used to work with both rend and deep wounds?
Like, at the same time?
pallid quiver
Used to work with all bleeds from Warrior
from warrior being the key part, so no trinket bleeds or anything counted
urban portal
"Bloodsurge now causes damage from Deep Wounds to have a chance to generate 3 Ra...
yeah but i think bloodsurge now has a higher proc rate from just DW
probably a minor rage loss overall but dont matter
native nova
Is the new Ignore pain coefficient zero? or is my info out of date
urban portal
out of date
errant oriole
SOOOO Just tried colossus, does anyone have issues with ret pallies on initial threat?!
lol
karmic plinth
they have a lot of upfront dam
strong forum
aoe taunt is your friend
errant oriole
true my guild forces me to run the aoe interupt on it though >_>
abstract iris
probably a minor rage loss overall but dont matter
Oh really, people were making it seem like class is ruined wwith how bad the rage changes were lol
urban portal
Oh really, people were making it seem like class is ruined wwith how bad the rag...
bloodsurge is the least of it
im saying the bloodsurge nerf doesnt matter too much
overall rage nerfs come from strategist amongst other stuff
wicked pollen
SOOOO Just tried colossus, does anyone have issues with ret pallies on initial t...
have your ret player not open their 3 global opener before you finish gathering
errant oriole
it was just a pug they gone now 😛
abstract iris
bloodsurge is the least of it
ohh 😦 what makes it so bad? About how much less rage do we get?
urban portal
ohh 😦 what makes it so bad? About how much less rage do we get?
"
-Strategist being nerfed from 30% to 20% is a HUGE deal for both rage generation and DPS output.
-Outburst rage generation being halved AGAIN (first it was from 200% to 100% in DF) from 100% to 50% is also a big deal both offensively and defensively.
-Impenetrable Wall losing all its rage gen from 4 down to 0 further cements a big loss in rage generation."
abstract iris
Ohh yeah that strategist change is the most messed up one
keen leaf
warriors get more buffs I hear o.o
cerulean tusk
Probably, but doubt that :v
prisma crane
warriors get more buffs I hear o.o
only pink shield wearers allowed to get buffs
abstract iris
Why do ppl say vdh is good in 11.1 ptr? No way 2 extra seconds of demon spikes makes them good?
keen leaf
2 extra seconds of demon spikes is actually pretty huge, but I think theyre good right now because of some bugs, dont quote me tho
vocal cave
Why do ppl say vdh is good in 11.1 ptr? No way 2 extra seconds of demon spikes m...
huge buffs to cycle of binding actually
vdh will be a lot more sturdy to melee hits S2
especially aoe
north atlas
Is the sheild charge change a buff or nerf i csnt tell
cyan bronze
Why do ppl say vdh is good in 11.1 ptr? No way 2 extra seconds of demon spikes m...
2 extra seconds of demonspikes is very large
it allows them to drop 1pt ftd
small steeple
like 33%? i think i heard
small steeple
and cycle of binding change was massive
cyan bronze
like 33%? i think i heard
uhh
its hard to give a raw number
but demon spikes raw is 6 sec, 8 sec with extended spikes(always played), and is cdr'd from ftd(always played) per soul
now its 8sec raw, 10sec extended spikes, and ftd isn't necessary
in m+ for the always played talents
also cycle of binding gives a lot of cc cdr
if playing chains i think its like 45sec now, sigil of silence is like 65? sec now, misery is idk but less relevant
cyan bronze
vdh will be a lot more sturdy to melee hits S2
fwiw, the cdr on elysian decree just makes them tankier also, aswell as vdh naturally being really good at dealing with individual tank busters
abstract iris
and new cycle of binding is very good
What is the new cycle of binding?
cyan bronze
old cycle of binding was sigils reduce sigils cd by 2 sec
new is sof reduces sigils by 5 sec
small steeple
For colossus, one against many or arterial bleed?
urban bane
@strong forum i tried to redeem myself though im certain you will beat this very easily with rings.
or wait was it the ara kara which was the shit show log you spotted that time haha 😅
small steeple
also, would colossus want show of force or thunderlord?
scenic bone
Now that they’ve killed prot paladin (joke) how is prot war looking in terms of damage and tankiness in s2 so far?
cyan bronze
not great
maiden forge
Now that they’ve killed prot paladin (joke) how is prot war looking in terms of ...
shite
also plays like balls
round pendant
Now that they’ve killed prot paladin (joke) how is prot war looking in terms of ...
what did they do to ppal
scenic bone
And some more refining fire dam
jagged gust
yeah so like, slight loss in utility for slightly more dps
round pendant
those guys said more 
cyan bronze
they took away a bit of CDR from their utility package
i wouldn’t say just utility
but yeah
5%->3% parry on sia is also not a little bit of parry, fwiw
heavy vault
can we spell reflect the statues in dark flame cleft 3rd boss
fallow spindle
so is mountain thane or colossus looking better rn for prot?
wicked pollen
did anyone ever check ip
hi
wicked pollen
so is mountain thane or colossus looking better rn for prot?
🔮
round cliff
so is mountain thane or colossus looking better rn for prot?
colossus
i forsaw it in a dream
cerulean tusk
Thane, I seen the next balance round
oak ivy
Uhhh.. I was all worried and ready to problem solve with Gorge in P3 ansurek... and it did a combined total of 5M damage.
What?
abstract iris
How much longer is PTR? When is release?
cerulean tusk
Who knows, 2-4 more weeks?
WoWhead will tell ya like 10 times with clickbait titles when we know
vale escarp
As far as I remember the m+ dungeon balancing test was scheduled for like 6 weeks and started the 8 January
oak ivy
Spider bitch is at 22.6% lads we're doing it
related holy cow I have never done something so sketchy as intervening mid yoink
abstract iris
“without reducing Protection Warriors’ ability to tank effectively.” Is such an insulting line it’s like they are doing it on purpose
Are you telling me the person who wrote this knows anything about warrior at all and isn’t just ai or some intern writing fluff
ancient reef
wheres a link to ptr notes from today
abstract iris
vocal cave
but demon spikes raw is 6 sec, 8 sec with extended spikes(always played), and is...
duration extension is not always played, personally almost never play it in raid, feed the demon I also never play in any content unless last resort which again pretty much never
Vdh defensive talents are similar to bdk. They seem to make you tankier but youre better off with offensive ones most of time
upper spoke
hardy snow
Are you telling me the person who wrote this knows anything about warrior at all...
of course they don't understand the spec, they have no idea why people like the spec and have no idea how their changes will affect both effectivness and fun of playstyle
shy python
Anyone tested the "new" IP yet?
sweet summit
woaw these buffs are exactly what we wanted!!!! so poggers and cool :DDDDDDD
jagged pier
violet ginkgo
not enough buff
lilac basalt
I wonder if they will overcompensate now for the botched up rotation / fun factor and then in 1 or 2 weeks they will nerf the spec into oblivion and leave it like that for the season
tribal wharf
doom guy in the lore
now can capt usa or spell reflect
is he paladin or warrior
im confused now
since a new doom game was released early access or it was being played on a show, (I dunno i never pre-ordered it), i wanted to beat whoever was going to make the joke first to the punch
i hope that skull LMG thing is good
strong forum
Its a simple fix undo straigist nerf
Yeah but that would paint a bad picture for blizz, to have to go back on a bunch of stuff
So they rather save face by fixing the mess they created through other way more effort means
strong forum
I wonder if they will overcompensate now for the botched up rotation / fun facto...
I suspect they will not touch prot at all until next xpac after 11.1
dark barn
They WANT us to press less Shield Slam and Ignore Pain (less APM), after that all the changes they made are "your buttons are stronger, feel happy"
violet ginkgo
Yeah but that would paint a bad picture for blizz, to have to go back on a bunch...
Why do I think all of this is because of the tier set?
Felt like they create the tier set first and then think "whoa if the tier set like this with a lot of SS spam they will spam Shield Charge too and more rage." so the thought after that is just make statement about overflowing rage is a problem, high apm is a problem to justify the nerf to fit the S2 tierset, because if S2 Tier set is launched with our current playstyle we will be pressing more IP and more execute, and they don't like that.
Execute because possibly with many SS reset and Shield Charge it's enough to cover the duration so we can take massacre and start executing from 35%.
round pendant
It's 100% due to the tier set
well no
the tier set 100% has something to do with it
cyan bronze
duration extension is not always played, personally almost never play it in raid...
did you read “in m+”
and 1pt ftd is pretty universally played in difficult m+ content
thanks for trying to explain it tho
north atlas
They WANT us to press less Shield Slam and Ignore Pain (less APM), after that al...
If they wanna lessen apm buff tf outta ip make sb a passive and redo anger management
cerulean tusk
Only way to lower CPM is to increase the GCF or global lock you with CDs or channels.
Sure, you can remove all off GCD, but yeah.
heavy temple
Yeah but that would paint a bad picture for blizz, to have to go back on a bunch...
they did on mage, several times this beta/xpac cycle
north atlas
https://tenor.com/view/what-the-hell-is-even-that-gif-4110676814428319147
Cant speak hillbilly?
cyan bronze
why would they make sb a passive
strong forum
they did on mage, several times this beta/xpac cycle
Mages play an entirely different game, they get reworked 3 times per season. We didn't get a rework in 2 full expansions
cyan bronze
Nommy
strong forum
We are still on the god damn same talent tree as DF beta
cyan bronze
Did you test to see if ip changed
strong forum
They just cleaned up the formula
strong forum
Correct
strong needle
Is there like a dedicated tank discord (not just warrior)? Still undecided what tank I wanna play s2 (usually play war/paladin) but things looking grim for the plate bros
strong needle
I’m ngl to ya, I’m a 3200-3400 io player and I just play meta spec /shrug
cyan bronze
likely vdh
if you want meta(hahahahahahahaha)
or whatever gets large mid season buffs
but vdh/ppal looks the best rn
strong needle
Yeah I’m just hoping it’s not Druid, Druid is always so boring
strong forum
If you just fotm switch then be prepared to have pally vdh ready
cyan bronze
Druid is not looking epic atm
no
they’re mildly more tanky but do even less dmg now
and they were already giga ass for dmg
@strong forum Have you played around with cinder stein
strong needle
Yeah I’ll gear up the vdh more he’s 630. Just in case sucks warrior is by far the most fun tank to play
strong forum
Haven't played around at all no
Just tested the rotation, will do more stuff when it's closer to release
cyan bronze
Yeah
It seems good
No primary but have seen quite a few instances of it saving people in logs&is rather high proc even if just on self
neon elk
Do we have date for s2?
ionic fern
Something March?
cerulean tusk
Late February I pray
grim pilot
4th of march i thinkv
cyan bronze
After tgp sometime
grim pilot
Heard somewhere
thorny stone
Late march or ill be spending the start of the s2 playing Monster Hunter
round pendant
I just dunno how after this current season
they're like
"hmm yes, tanks need nerfing"
lilac basalt
Maybe the content will be easier
cerulean tusk
They are making dungeons overall less volatile, so it should be
round pendant
it's not like it was hard to tank
but the perception that the dungeons are hard/punishing just makes no one want to take on the extra stress (self imposed btw, tanking is easy as fuck) means no one played tank
so they should make tanks stronk
imo
cyan bronze
"hmm yes, tanks need nerfing"
from what I can tell tanks are stronger?
or
pwar just got shot for some independent reason
round pendant
Tanks needed to be brought up to current season prot pally level
cerulean tusk
^ This, they pushing hard to make it easier
PTR was kite meta, now you can tank most things just fine.
cyan bronze
tank trinkets are also stronger this tier fwiw
round pendant
Why not make it easier by making the classes stronger
nerfing/removing tankbusters just makes bosses even more boring
🤷♂️
cerulean tusk
Goal is not to make it easier for us, but for the low skill and new players
cyan bronze
they brought sizable buffs to vdh, some ok buffs to bear
so it’s not like they’re not buffing tanks either
cerulean tusk
Making the content simpler is the way to go
cyan bronze
idk what they’ve done for bdk
cyan bronze
yeah
cerulean tusk
Nothing, it still is: want to have fun, overgear the content. Or suffer
cyan bronze
also blizzard probably thinks tank 2pc is pretty good for tank survivability
so blizzard probably thinks that alone makes tanks rather stronger
albeit wrong
cerulean tusk
Depends on up time, if it is 100% it will be nice
Proc based d value just ain't very good, if it doesn't proc all the time
frail fern
Some advice ? The ignore pain shield slam macro , is it good to use ?
Want to main spec tank again and needs some great tips tricks
remote anchor
just make sure you do it the right way around
hidden linden
For the love of any deity you happen to believe in, please stop macro'ing shit together
frail fern
just make sure you do it the right way around
This aimed at me mate ?
remote anchor
yes
young gyro
Slowing down rage generated is just a bad design choice. It's cutting the fun out of a class that didn't need to be nerfed.
young gyro
Use keybinded stuff Bigkahuna. Something like E for shield slam and shift E to ignore pain
frail fern
And is there any abilities that we don't use at all for mytjhics and raid ?
frail fern
Use keybinded stuff Bigkahuna. Something like E for shield slam and shift E to i...
Thx
young gyro
Don't you remove my ww it's an older ability but it checks out.
But ya if you get used to keybinds you will be able to do things better than macroing abilities
The only parts I macro is I add /startattack to my abilities so if something dies I just jump to another target right away.
I also have Targeted macros for something like pummel so I can quick interrupt
round pendant
Use keybinded stuff Bigkahuna. Something like E for shield slam and shift E to i...
that sounds miserable
round pendant
The only parts I macro is I add /startattack to my abilities so if something die...
the game does this by default tho??
abstract iris
Maybe I was doing something wrong, but I was able to easily solo tier 8 delves at 580 gear score on prot warrior but when I tried with vdh it was so much harder. I know they are harder to play but the damage received difference was so apparent
cerulean tusk
Warrior always been more tanky off the bat. As we got armor and block to handle that phase of gearing.
As always other classes catch up as they too gear.
abstract iris
Also with the 20% shield slam buff and 50% crit rate on 4 piece, how is the damage looking in ptr? It seems like it would be pretty good
red tree
Smells like big bonks to me
cyan bronze
Maybe I was doing something wrong, but I was able to easily solo tier 8 delves a...
meh
maybe better at pwar
you could most certainly solo unnerfed t8 delves at that ilvl on vdh(or any tank, probably)
cerulean tusk
Also with the 20% shield slam buff and 50% crit rate on 4 piece, how is the dama...
Not superb, dps is about the same as live. Maybe the 12 sec changes things, but doubt it
cyan bronze
Also with the 20% shield slam buff and 50% crit rate on 4 piece, how is the dama...
it’s 75% now supposedly
red tree
Can big bonks counteract 30% less SS procs?
Doubt it 😭
cerulean tusk
As long it ain't 100%, I sleep
cyan bronze
like maybe better than thane in keys
cerulean tusk
Col already strobg
abstract iris
Tbh if they just made strategist 25% instead of 20% at this point I would happy
cerulean tusk
Yeah, soon you get less tho
cyan bronze
on ptr^
cerulean tusk
PTR is less than live, as you get less slam resets and no more exes
abstract iris
colossus is giga stonks rn
Wait on god? I heard people dooming about it because it doesn’t get as much rage as thane
cyan bronze
Wait on god? I heard people dooming about it because it doesn’t get as much rage...
it does not get as much rage no
cerulean tusk
It is fine, Tylo. You fill all globals, always have
cyan bronze
and you get so much demolish cdr
it’s an ok amount of dr
and alot of dmg for bruvit
(shield slam crits generate 2x stacks/cdr for colossus)
cerulean tusk
You get less demos than live, so meh?
cyan bronze
(relatively trivial to get to 100%)
cyan bronze
You get less demos than live, so meh?
wdym
cerulean tusk
Less slam resets = less cdr
abstract iris
Demolish feels so wrong with a one handed weapon lol but I’ve never played colossus on prot so it would be cool if it was viable
cerulean tusk
Yes Ely, also no exe resets
cerulean tusk
And? Won't fill the exe+proc hit
cyan bronze
it very much should for keys
execute was a minority of your stacks
proc hit should be neutral or a gain
cerulean tusk
Combine them and it really stacks up, you gained less from aoe as you already revenged
cerulean tusk
That what o said
You already revenge
So there is no extra major gain, other than the loss on st
cyan bronze
i sincerely doubt it’s a net loss on cdr but can let sims determine that ig
barbaric training buff is also large
for colossus
cerulean tusk
Situation haven't changed, other than having less excess rage to play with.
Maybe we get increased output from %mods, it still plays worse. Especially on what was already weak, ST
cyan bronze
ok have fun
cerulean tusk
AoE col been deleting forever
cyan bronze
colossus is weak st?
cerulean tusk
On PTR it is really iffy to get a good flow on it, if you ask me. Ye
rapid lance
How looks protec after changes? Much slower class?
cerulean tusk
Not really, we still fill our GCDs
tribal wharf
i wonder what spec would be most OP if we had urf in wow
besides paladin something cuz 24/7 bubble
terms of damage i have to imagine fire mage, combust
mighty valley
combustion already turns on urf mode, they wouldn’t gain anything
orchid mural
urf = ?
strong forum
Some league thing
tribal wharf
TLDR perma haste
imagine if warrior kit worked the way it did for all clases
now imagine you always have lust
thats urf
cyan bronze
i wonder what spec would be most OP if we had urf in wow
Fel scarred vdh comes to mind
tribal wharf
you dont get more damge, but you get to press more of the same buttons meaning more dmg
cyan bronze
in wow terms it would be like if you had 150% haste 100% vers 100% mast 100% crit
tribal wharf
in practice
cyan bronze
and everything was hasted
tribal wharf
sort of, but no, cuz its cd reduction
i forget the exact numbers, but its literally just can hit button every 3 seconds instead of 15
cyan bronze
i forget the exact numbers, but its literally just can hit button every 3 second...
it’s 300 ability haste
also known as 12 spear of shojins, 15 malignanices
cyan bronze
i quit leage over 10 years ago
tribal wharf
league was good time but it was even more toxic than pre code of conduct wow
strong forum
I'll do you better, I quit league in 2013
And when I realised I dont get anything from playing it, I quit
On the spot
tribal wharf
looking up 200 cc by 20 minutes flat was the beginning of the end for me
strong forum
400*
tribal wharf
never ever could do it and always resented the game was designed in such a way
strong forum
The froggen special
cyan bronze
I think league is rather fun if you don’t get wrapped up in the community
And Aram main
tribal wharf
dont like pvp games all that much cuz it gets personal and you tilt
i like opt in opt out consensual pvp
unless its like, call of duty
mighty valley
every time I see one of my friends is playing league I check in to make sure they’re doing ok
dull tulip
did they revert the nerfs?
cerulean tusk
Nop, changes are not reverted
cerulean tusk
If you want to play meta, keeping a dh on standby is always smart
dull tulip
idk why they would ever want to nerf rage generation so badly
waxen frigate
or are we rolling dh
DH is getting bug fixed
waxen frigate
If you want to play meta, keeping a dh on standby is always smart
That’s not at all true lmao
DH has been meta like twice ever
S1 SL and second half of DF
prot paladin is the best choice honestly because their utility is unparalleled
So if their survivability and damage is on par with others they naturally pull ahead
round pendant
I level all the tank specs to max just incase I wanna go fotm
and never end up doing anything but warrior
waxen frigate
I’m finally swapping off brew after 9 tiers (every tier since I started wow)
Vdh next tier since we need the buff filled
cyan bronze
DH is getting bug fixed
already is
unless you mean the aldrachi
dh is just rather tanky and does good dmg atm
tbh
think its genuinely tankier and does more dmg than ppal atm
is it enough? 🔮
waxen frigate
think its genuinely tankier and does more dmg than ppal atm
Not relevant if pally interiors are mandatory
Interrupts*
cyan bronze
if pally cant live the key
you'll just pull smaller around the casters
but ye
its not to that point yet
strong forum
Also aren't they removing the interrupt from AS?
cerulean tusk
That’s not at all true lmao
It is 100% true; if you want to make sure to play meta - you want all the tanks on the backburner, this includes, not excludes, VDH.
waxen frigate
It is 100% true; if you want to make sure to play meta - you want all the tanks ...
I mean sure to an extent but if you’re keeping one tank always ready it should be bdk for raid/ppal for keys
Just based on historical relevance
Obviously being flexible with all 6 is ideal
strong forum
And keep pwar cuz 
karmic plinth
ill take being fun over being meta
karmic plinth
ill take 3 or 4 tbh
strong forum
Nah cuz when you're technically #2, people perceive you as #5 or #6
SL and DF sayin hi
waxen frigate
Nah cuz when you're technically #2, people perceive you as #5 or #6
Pwarr moment
strong forum
Yup
cerulean tusk
I wonder if warrior got such representation now, because BDK plays like stale dogwater
Usually BDK is very popular
tribal wharf
i would play bdk but apparently vampire survivor just aint survivin' the damned key!
cerulean tusk
Oh you can live, you just wont have any fun. Play it safe, and you wont die.
tribal wharf
well, if i want to play safe, i have pwar right
i cant seem to get into paladin or druid or monk or dh tank some reason :S
shadowlands fae monk was great but it was undertuned i think
abstract iris
Druid and paladin feel so slow compared to warrior
I love charging and jumping around
tribal wharf
paladin feels too complicated and druid is just,........... how do i say it..........
i feel like the person who plays bear tank, in retail, knows literally everything about the game already
and is actual gigachad types
and that just aint me
i'd go into humanoid form trying to pull or soemthin and get my self (group) killed
vocal cave
has anyone been doing new alt lately? Im missing 1 ilvl upgrade to siren isle ring and theres no quest to take (not the storm one)
spiral jetty
has anyone been doing new alt lately? Im missing 1 ilvl upgrade to siren isle ri...
i just afk and kill the elites from the events on alts and the upgrades eventually drop
riveting gameplay
strong forum
i just afk and kill the elites from the events on alts and the upgrades eventual...
I just do the quests, takes 10min Total to get full ring upgraded, way better than tryna kill elites for 2hrs
spiral jetty
I just do the quests, takes 10min Total to get full ring upgraded, way better th...
yeah probably smarter but i've done it week by week so it's like 2-3 elite kills at worst
for one drop
strong forum
Blimp is not even random order
waxen frigate
has anyone been doing new alt lately? Im missing 1 ilvl upgrade to siren isle ri...
You can just kill the event bosses
And it’s a rng drop
Do the quests in the meantime between spawns
Ez clap
urban bane
well at least revenge hit hard on ptr
small quail
The 4 pc tier set bonus pretty much makes shells block cost zero rage to keep up depending on how often we crit SS, reducing out rage spenders to IP or revenge. It’s a band aid to blizzards self inflicted problem
Shield
errant oriole
so is prot war looking like it can go past 10s in season 2? 🙂
shut summit
of course
jagged pier
so is prot war looking like it can go past 10s in season 2? 🙂
alway was
errant oriole
ok making sure 😛 imma rock it! love prot war the most out of all the tanks
my least fav is those pesky pink rangers 😛
sour flicker
guys for prot on M+ what is better 626 swamlord or 639 foul behemoth chelicera?
strong forum
Depends who you're asking
I would say chelicera as it has str and does a bit of dmg
Swarmlords has haste and does 0 dmg 
cerulean tusk
I like swarmgland
rain light
prot 4 pc looking juicy
jagged gust
and all they had to do was increase the CDR by 100% and extend it's duration by 20%
cerulean tusk
I am still not sold, but shieldcharge is fun - so minor W
waxen cradle
So are the recent changes to the tier set effects blizzards lame ass attempt to fix virtually annihilating the fun feedback loop playstyle we currently have ?
I only ask because if that is the best they can do to correct there idiotic choices then its a band aid at best
jagged pier
We still have down time
I believe
They cant go back on the changes
And they arent going to rework so make peace with it
waxen cradle
yeah is what I was expecting, its still very little consolation for a issue they created that was not a problem before unfortunately
unborn island
Fucking SoB
And healers
Last boss with 10 mins left
Healer messes it up after about 4 mins
Then bails.
Know it's not warrior specific, but this seems a reasonable place to rant.
drowsy narwhal
I am curious what the total dmg numbers look like now, since ppal also got nerfed and we got another compensating buff.
are we now all at the 800-900k mark maybe? hopefully someone publishes stats about this soon
also i couldnt find any site which has a dps list for all tank builds, like as you see archon for example only shows 6 tank specs
small steeple
archon does weird aggreagation, murlok.io and wowmeta is gen better cause it shows the stats behind them
drowsy narwhal
do you have a link for me to check it out? i cant find any dps tank list on them
drowsy narwhal
i mean, but this is how statistics work? you take enough examples and then average it?
urban portal
those are pretty biased samples
drowsy narwhal
idk but the least one on that list has 30k parses
urban portal
also you have to realize that this is 30k parses over EVERY key level
thats not a lot
drowsy narwhal
no, between +7 and +20
urban portal
yeah thats what i mean
but like
i wouldnt count anything below 10 as relevant
and then that cuts off a lot of the casual playerbase
and due to the nature of M+ tanks, best players gravitate towards the perceived best
especially as keys go higher
not to mention damage tradeoffs
drowsy narwhal
i m not sure i agree, first of all, +7 is not far away from +10 and also for taking the average, you also got to get bad players, so you can average
hardy snow
Such data should be checked from +12up
drowsy narwhal
yes, hence averaging it, you take "bad" players and the pro players
urban portal
also just for prot warrior
in cutting edge keys you'll probably not play colossus
even though thats objectively more damage
im sure thats true for some other tank specs too
tank stats are extremely muddled compared to DPS stats
drowsy narwhal
i mean, if they are not taken or not, can be seen from the parses, but i m curious to see like what dmg each spec does on avg
we could see above that ppal did on avg. 300k more dmg than us for example, which is a big margin
and it only shows 6 specs, so a list for all specs would be nice, and if you need it to be above +10 only or +12, so be it, i m okay
but i cant find such a list anywhere
urban portal
if everyone played colossus that could be tightened to 50k
but obviously people do not
#1 because most guides do not recommend it
#2 because in cutting edge keys you probably dont want to risk wiping your team for extra tank damage
drowsy narwhal
because dmg is not everything, utily is also big in those big leagues
urban portal
ngl i think raid tank dps is a mcuh better metric
drowsy narwhal
i know i know, but i m still curious about raw dmg output of tanks
urban portal
because raid tanking is trivial
in terms of survival
so you want to look at raw output you can just look at raid
drowsy narwhal
okay, link?
drowsy narwhal
still 6 specs only
urban portal
you want it split up by hero talents?
drowsy narwhal
no, i also want to see colossus on there for example
urban portal
the number here is probably already playing the highest damage hero talent
if you want to get into detail you just go on wclogs for each spec and see what the highest dps people are playing
drowsy narwhal
i just wanted to see how all tanks are doing compared to each other in terms of dmg, looking at 2-3 top players will not depict that
so like if you play sth non-meta, there is basically no stats you can compare with
we are lucky our spec is on there, but if it wasnt, what to do?
oak ivy
Damage is comparable? Survivability better? well guys looks like im a brewmaster s2
its been good
pallid quiver
i just wanted to see how all tanks are doing compared to each other in terms of ...
You can only realistically get a true idea of the specs compared at their highest presented roll unless you go simming. All of your aggregation mechs can include people just not pressing buttons. Even a lot of the people in the top 200 of tank specs
just don't press buttons
I got into the top 100 for prot war parses while only 620 on a boss because of that
You can't aggregate and evaluate the data because
there's not valid data to aggregate and evaluate in enough quantity
That's actually what sims are for is to rapidly compute numbers and iterations to generate that data for you
So if you really wanted, probably the best way to get what you want is to hijack the talents/gear from highest ilvl people, preferably from a fight that's just pure ST, and then sim them yourself
There's also random situational benefits in encounters that drastically support some damage profiles, as well. Just among Prot War alone, any time there are at least 3 targets during a fight, Colossus starts instantly surging ahead because of Demo stacks from Revenge
abstract iris
Guys convince me, should I play prot warrior or guardian druid as a tanking noob
vale escarp
Just play whats more fun for you
cerulean tusk
As long it is warrior, we accept you completely
jagged gust
If you a furry, play bear.
furry warrior
vale escarp
If he's going for druid he wont roll on our Items KEKW
pallid quiver
As long it is warrior, we accept you completely
Citation Needed
cerulean tusk
Warrbro is warrbro
abstract iris
If you just want to be a brickwall, then play warrior.
What does that mean? Warrior tankier?
cerulean tusk
Yes and no, they are different. But sure, I would call warrior more tanky in the more straight forward sense
Warrior is the classic tank experience you would expect it to be
You block with your shield and strike with your sword, the spec
young gyro
If you a furry, play bear.
What about a Worgen Warrior?
cerulean tusk
The worst kind of person, a true Furry Warrior
If Worgen had tails and that more fierce look, I wouldnt judge
Sadly, it is WoW werewolves
young gyro
The worst kind of person, a true Furry Warrior
🖕 As a Worgen Warrior 😉
jagged gust
nowait bro just listen Vulpera is the best tank bro also-
young gyro
Yes to tails but good god please no more fierce look thats how we got the abomination in at the start of Cata.
Blizzard dont know how to fierce.
They also dont know how to Warrior but everyone knows that.
mighty valley
The worst kind of person, a true Furry Warrior
be careful, the entire IT industry will turn on you and break your computer
young gyro
I've already flagged Funky for utter IT annihilation.
cerulean tusk
young gyro
Its ok due to the Kitty name it will only be semi painful. 😉
jagged gust
D:
pallid quiver
oh hey, i just saw the new news post
free execute damage
sharp olive
I'm like warrior changes, but I hate that it is probably not going to feel good till 4 set
jagged gust
Man tey really don't want fury to press exe do they?
dark barn
Colossus is feeling a bit better in ptr, fills the ignore pain shield very fast, one cast equals to 38%
sharp olive
Colossus is feeling a bit better in ptr, fills the ignore pain shield very fast,...
How does Thane feel?
orchid mural
the changes are universally bad.
pallid quiver
Man tey really don't want fury to press exe do they?
I'm surprised they buffed it at all
Since their own given reasonings for things mean it's supposed to be a low impact button that is supposed to be on the side and consumes a lot of resources
And those resources should be intelligently spent elsewhere
dark barn
How does Thane feel?
feels good too, but not exactly way ahead in rage generation like was in s1
im testing with HR really helps rage economy
deep steppe
olive rock
ill take free buffs, but still want strategist change reverted
what they changed ?
maiden forge
it went from 30% proc rate to 20% proc rate
olive rock
i see
maiden forge
and they just posted its because they dont want shield slam as prominent in the rotation
orchid mural
which is full on stupid