protection

[jagged gust]

But the fact I didn't know they were removed probably means it wouldnt help e anyways

[tribal wharf]

there is already many types of trees in the world, just have to add skill lvls to trees and if u arent lvl 400 tree cutter cant cut down in dragon flight

and then make various uses retcons for wood players get

just walk up to tree click it and after 5 seconds work it comes down collect lumber,
have axe, will travel

[rain light]

play osrs

[tribal wharf]

no ty, i had a character around 800-1200 total lvl at some point, that would be like if i started wow all over again, ont enough time in world

2 options, manual lumber jack, or, you can pay workers of some kind to go get it for you from world\

[proven plume]

how dead of a stat is mastery? does shield block mean it does nothing

[frail ibex]

https://strawpoll.com/eJnvV4O3mnv

[heavy sparrow]

I loot specialization into prot and got jack ):

[tribal wharf]

vampires not surviving in keys so no interest of bdk for me

perhaps it is as vampire u get a sv hunt ti coms to key ??? winner

[pallid quiver]

All secondaries are good for Prot War, particularly defensively. Mastery is the weakest not because of defensive ability, but because it gives the least damage on average.

[tribal wharf]

love to hit vamp button bdk not so much like to press it as db

[pallid quiver]

In fact, Mastery is quite strong for a small splash of investment defensively because crit block is very strong

[waxen holly]

I have a myth chest so I wouldn't pick that from the vault. Is this refreacting agression module worth getting or just get some tokens?

[pallid quiver]

Consider that most damage coming in is hours after you taunt in most cases (Raid tank busters, etc) That, alone, makes it not as strong as it could be

[waxen holly]

Sounds like Tokens it is then 😦

[jagged gust]

My ring went from giving me 695 all stats at ilvl652, to 674 at ilvl655

hmmge

[heavy sparrow]

Oh on ptr

[jagged gust]

no on live, the citrine gem that gives all stats

all stats went down with ilvl, but the mastery gem went up

[proven plume]

yep i took a pic checking

[jagged gust]

dang, you lost 320ish stats? I'm curious now

[iron sphinx]

is anyone keeping up with ptr changes? is prot still dead?

[jagged gust]

no changes

[mighty valley]

they haven’t done any ptr updates at all yet have they? or did I miss any

[small steeple]

just dungeon changes for this week

[willow edge]

I mean chance to crit block is more useful than the regular block chance included in it. Also the AP boost means it’s at least not a dead stat.

[wicked pollen]

its also damage

[willow edge]

That’s part of the AP

Did make me consider hypothetically stacking mastery just to see how high number go up

[cyan bronze]

It’s also damage

[sweet summit]

it's also damage

[onyx cliff]

Is there still the prot talent to do 3 heroic throws at once?

To help with aggroing mobs

[sweet summit]

nop

[hoary glen]

I got the Ovi'naxs Trinket in the vault, but now I would have two Use Trinkets with the same cooldown. Is it possible to pack both trinkets in one macro and display the trinket that is not on cooldown?

The two Trinkets I have are: Quickwick Candlestick and Ovi'nax's Mercurial Egg.

[crimson crest]

Mine says 639 in all secondary stats as 655 :/

[jagged pier]

@hardy snow @pallid quiver told ya

[ionic fern]

Gratz.

[sweet summit]

that's funny as fuck what the hell

boingji saying it's toolip error

[wintry nymph]

i am tempted to try prot for a patch next tier. I heard some stuff about prot nerfs, how bad is it really?

[jagged pier]

as of right now i wouldnt bother tbh it will be fine just unfun to play

there might be changes coming that change that Pattch still a while away

[wintry nymph]

aight, in that case ill stay arms and try another patch, unless they make some changes

thanks

[jagged pier]

that being said fun is subjective u might like it you can always go on the ptr and test yourself

[wintry nymph]

fair fair

ive tried prot a bit last patch

was quite fun back there

but i heard some stuff about having less rage gen?

sounds unfun to me

[ionic fern]

Less rage gen and generally slower gameplay.

[limber temple]

I really dont want slower gameplay.

[wintry nymph]

yeah me neither

ill just wait for another patch then

thanks lads

[limber temple]

I've tried to play the slower tanks and my brain falls off a cliff.

[jagged pier]

time to roll dps

[limber temple]

I've been tanking since Vanilla.

[jagged pier]

same

well ive been prot warrior since vanilla

[limber temple]

Same

[jagged pier]

but this is a re roll or an unsubber

right now

changes can change that

[limber temple]

Like I get we have had our ups and downs throughout expansions

but these changes feel like a huge change against why I persist with Warrior.

Like - I want RSI.....Its what I live for 😂

[jagged pier]

as i said for me its the worst its ever felt. worse than SLs season 1 and worse than BFA S1 both at least had flow

this just has dead globals

which is

[limber temple]

What you planning on rerolling to if you do?

[jagged pier]

unsub right now

[ionic fern]

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/apm-too-high-on-some-specs-increase-gcd-please/472058

[jagged pier]

is the plan

[ionic fern]

People like this ruin fun.

[jagged pier]

unfortunatly mwahi that is the majority of the player base

[ionic fern]

They aren't competitive to begin with

Just press your buttons slower,you ain't competing.

Smh

[jagged pier]

i agree

but thats not good feedback to blizz

[ionic fern]

But noooo,now everyone has to suffer because someone doing open world content is complaining.

[jagged pier]

well it seems to be only prot warriors that suffer

[limber temple]

Thats because Blizzard have no idea what to do with us

[ionic fern]

Everyone as in "every Prot warrior".

[jagged pier]

they dont know how the spec works tbh

[ionic fern]

[limber temple]

Absolutely correct.

[jagged pier]

or well whoevers looking after it doesnt

someone else at bliz might

[next yacht]

I cant say anymore 'ME WARRIOR ME SMASH' because i wont have any button to press,so sad...

[hardy snow]

[ionic fern]

There are still times where Prot feels like now..it's when you got all cooldowns available.

Once you've sent them,you're just sitting there contemplating life until they are back up.

[lilac basalt]

So kinda like guardian druid?

[ionic fern]

Yes,which sucks.

We don't feel as bad tho since our rage generators are offensive,so we still have defensive cooldowns for other times etc.

[lilac basalt]

Maybe the solution is to direct more “slow” people to guardian. And we can revert the changes. Please blizz 🥺

[jagged pier]

[rancid tiger]

lol

[lime mantle]

There is a solution to this thobeit, go play xiv or classic paladin :^)

[hardy snow]

I've finally got myth track ara sac... on druid alt

[hardy snow]

but I want it on main, not alt

[iron sphinx]

im rolling fury or arms if changes dont get reverted

[vocal cave]

someone needed trinkets?

[remote anchor]

I got my 3rd skarm shard

[ionic fern]

Enjoy.

[dark barn]

Lets go back to devastate? Lol.

[tribal wharf]

thats i never play pwar again

bfa pwar was........

[tulip oar]

Don't worry those are looking to be nerfed as well. The Prot nerfs just make no sense, and seem contradictory to "Warrior is in a good place" phrase.

[violet ginkgo]

ahhh so you want to play queue simulator harder?

[chilly brook]

Unfortunately, these people want to be “competitive” and hate it when they’re not but they don’t want to put the effort in to be competitive. Regardless of if they even need to be.

[chilly brook]

I’ll just be playing DH tbh

Spec already fun, and it’s looking to just be getting better next tier

[wild chasm]

I have to play as a sub on Kyve'za because our main tank is off today. Do we play spell block on it or no?

[jagged pier]

the dot yes

[wild chasm]

Thanks Jakey ❤️

[jagged pier]

u only get it for 1 dot a phase

so hopefully u not taking 2 mechanics and just one

[waxen frigate]

@tribal wharf did you see Doom has been ported to .pdf?

[tardy herald]

So there were actually complaints about ignore pain spam?

[jagged pier]

#protection message

[tardy herald]

Jesus lol, I play DK, Prot Warrior, Paladin and Guardian.

All of them are high APM.

Maybe those people should consider a caster

[remote anchor]

casters = high apm lole

[cerulean tusk]

To be fair, increasing the GCD is the most easy fix to reduce APM.

My opinion, I dont even need to read anything. Increasing GCD sounds terribad. Dont want it. Shoo, make a new class called turtle tank. Give them 5sec GCD that cant be hasted; just dont try to force that idea on me

[chilly brook]

if people want an increased GCD they should go play FF

[frigid valley]

i mean FF doesnt really have that much less button spam as you press alot of stuff that is OGCD

maybe online chess is good CPM for those who cant handle wow

[tribal wharf]

no, but i did put IDKFA on my phones music

[waxen frigate]

https://www.ign.com/articles/move-over-toasters-doom-is-now-playable-inside-a-pdf

Now playable on any device capable of opening a pdf file

[tribal wharf]

my phone also has a doom guy running around blasting things on the screen saver and i have the official paid doom app on the store

[waxen frigate]

[tribal wharf]

there is also doom cant think the name but anti robot software

https://doom-captcha.vercel.app/

3k io = get a shotgun

[maiden goblet]

Any updates on the upcoming nerfs? They still going through with it?

[tardy abyss]

There hasnt been a ptr update in a while

[cyan bronze]

Maybe one soon

With dungeon flip

maybe

[violet ginkgo]

they will go through

[sweet summit]

they will have to go through me first

[cyan bronze]

through you

how

[wicked pollen]

hi

through tiy

[cyan bronze]

i am manifesting ill will onto you

bad spirits oooooooaoooo

[ionic fern]

Protect us, Erga.

[sweet summit]

🫡

[sweet summit]

i'm hoping blizzard doesn't figure that out either

[wicked pollen]

through tiy

[sweet summit]

idk what that means

[wicked pollen]

through tiy

he made a misinput and changed it

rat

[sweet summit]

minor spelling mistake 💥

[cyan bronze]

It was toy

Dumbass

[wicked pollen]

stay made

[pallid quiver]

Every spelling mistake that is sent over the internet is repaid with a lashing

[cyan bronze]

Plaese

Im’ beging yuo fro mote lashng

[wicked pollen]

through toy

[cyan bronze]

lash him moderators

[pallid quiver]

You're gonna wish you were an orc in the Dark Lord's army at this point smh

[cyan bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-scared-lashes-spongebob-squarepants-gif-9320629

[wicked pollen]

through toy

[cyan bronze]

Freaky

@wicked pollen

I’m going to shake you

[torn gulch]

build was supposed to be yesterday but blizzard was focusing on NA maintenance and even forgot to start the dungeon testing
we'll probably have the build today
i expect them to partially overturn the rage changes by the beginning of the pack unless they are completely asinine

[cyan bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/today-we-cope-breaking-bad-walter-white-today-we-cook-gif-7378752404704532346

[jagged pier]

[wicked pollen]

how hard

[wicked pollen]

through toy

[cyan bronze]

I genuinely expect them to make worse changes to warrior today

[torn gulch]

That's all I have left

[cyan bronze]

Revenge now requires 5 targets to generates stacks for colossus

[jagged pier]

just do that

completely kill the spec

no one will play it

we get our full rework

sounds fine to me

[wicked pollen]

through toy

[cyan bronze]

No thane isn’t affected by that one

[wicked pollen]

hi jakey

seems like you are having fun

[cyan bronze]

Thunderblast dr cut to 2%

[wicked pollen]

through toy

[jagged pier]

thanes already effected enough

[cyan bronze]

Proc rate down

Avatar now increases damage taken

[wicked pollen]

through toy

[cyan bronze]

how is colossus on ptr

[torn gulch]

By the way have you guys realised that ignore pain on PTR looks like it was nerfed by 30% not buffed by 30%?

[jagged pier]

plays reasonably the same because u didnt pressIP much

[torn gulch]

Maths doesn't math

[jagged pier]

but still suffers to no rage

[cyan bronze]

i was wondering

if the ip gain between thane/colossus shrunk with the changes

cus u barely got any before on colossus

and now you also don’t on thane

just get it all from damage

on the other hand

i was curious if colossus had enough rage to hit shield block

[torn gulch]

It has just enough rage to ragequit the game

In the current form

[cyan bronze]

also on colossus

the 1 ip every 2 min u can cast is rly big!

20% extra from col & 30% from new patch

[wicked pollen]

through toy

[vocal flame]

I mean we are talking about blizzard here lol

[cyan bronze]

blizz doesnt even know they have ptr out rn

@wicked pollen

what type of challenge run should i do bg3

rn

[daring wind]

Mono fighter only

[cyan bronze]

real

i could do that

[daring wind]

I tried a barb only with multiclassing, got all the way to HoH

[wicked pollen]

sex all any %

[vocal cave]

Pacifist d-urge

[cyan bronze]

did it alr

[wicked pollen]

you didnt do mine

[maiden forge]

4 nude gnomes, all with throwing build

As in throwing people build

[cedar willow]

Can anyone provide a detailed analysis on the pros and cons of binding SS and IP to a single key vs. using them as separate keys?

I see it has been asked before but Im not seeing some detailed responses on why vs, why not. Links to other threads appreciated. I am starting to push higher keys 10+ and feel it might be time to break up my macro and learn a bit more. TIA for answering a reoccuring question.

[pallid quiver]

You still have two separate binds when they're macro'd together

The reason you macro them and replace your IP bind with the macro is because it helps you snipe SS resets during times where you need to mash IP to avoid overcapping

[slender hemlock]

Is prot the most fun tank spec?

[maiden forge]

Depends

[pallid quiver]

It works because SS is the highest prio button in almost every single last scenario

[pallid quiver]

Depends on what you find fun. If you find it being fast fun, well, that's currently on the block for getting shot with current changes

[vocal cave]

For approx 1.5 month more yes

[maiden forge]

Fun is to each their own

[pallid quiver]

Also depends on if you find class flavor more interesting and fun, or gameplay, etc

[maiden forge]

Yeah, we are deadge next patch

[slender hemlock]

Bad changes inc?

[maiden forge]

Yes

Very bad

[plush tendon]

They've sort of dumbed down prot since SL

[pallid quiver]

They're pretty much halving the speed of the spec

[plush tendon]

so its less fun then it used to be

imo

[vocal cave]

Spec killing ones

[cedar willow]

Right now I have my SS and IP on a single macro, and its all I use. I dont have a key for SS and IP separate.

[plush tendon]

but its very new player friendly

[cedar willow]

But Im wondering, in more niche cases and at higher keys if theres now a need to break them up

[pallid quiver]

Yeah, that's bad because it makes you send rage when you don't want to on IP, potentially costing you Revenges to keep GCDs filled or being able to reapply SB when needed

[vocal cave]

I never understood argument of pwar and druid being noob friendly

[pallid quiver]

It'll be incredibly noticeable with current changes on PTR, as in you will actually fucking die because you can't keep SB up

[vocal cave]

Dk is the easiest any time

[pallid quiver]

Rotation is very simple on both of them at any basic level. You can get by with press SS/TC on CD, press SB

You can literally never press IP and get by

[cyan bronze]

changes are secretly a buff

[cedar willow]

I see, so IP refresh shoudl only happen once my IP total is sub ~1 million. Instead of mashing it with SS.

[cyan bronze]

if u never hit buttons

ur avg shield wall cd is lower now!

gg!

[pallid quiver]

No, IP is refreshed to avoid overcapping rage

[cyan bronze]

just be bad before!

[pallid quiver]

Even if it's at max, because it fuels the rage machine

[plush tendon]

Prot War is 100 times easier then BDK

not a bad thing tbh

[pallid quiver]

Revenge is generally more important to press in order to make sure you can keep generating rage, which means you have rage to spend

[plush tendon]

but when generators are also your highest damage abilties and you have SB 100% of the time

[cedar willow]

IP should only be refreshed when rage is @ max, and IP total is low? or just rage at max? (assuming I dont have a need to block).

[pallid quiver]

IP is a secondary mitigation mechanic behind Shield Block, since block is so strong

[plush tendon]

its kind of hard to fuck up Prot War

[vocal cave]

Press hearthstrike, and maintain bone shield, Press death strike after you get hit. Doesnt get easier

[cedar willow]

Oooooo

Didnt know that

[pallid quiver]

Block should always be up, since it gives damage; IP is only used to manage rage when making decisions on what button to press. The defensive benefits, currently, will be up when they need to be if you do so

[urban portal]

you always block

[pallid quiver]

Trying to overthink IP actually causes you to send too many, so your generation gets hurt, so you actually get less over time

[plush tendon]

block is just so damn strong

[maiden forge]

Block strong

[urban portal]

theres like 1 mob per expac that you dont need to block

[pallid quiver]

Maintaining bone shield is already harder than any of what you need to do in order to get Prot War to function at a basic level

[plush tendon]

you dont really thing about rage as Prot War

just generate as much as possible

and spend it just as fast

[pallid quiver]

Since you have to track a buff

[plush tendon]

you also get punished from over marrowrending on BDK

improper bone management fucks up your runic power econ, which fucks up everything else

[maiden forge]

Prot warrior is just roll your face on a keyboard, ez tanking

[pallid quiver]

Even before over marrowrending or thinking about using Death's Caress for shield stacks, you have to manage a buff at all instead of "press 3 buttons on CD"

[maiden forge]

Bdk can't roll their face or they die

[plush tendon]

I miss SL Prot War

[pallid quiver]

With HR, you can literally just press SS,TC,SB on CD and function at a basic level; you'll still have extremely high block uptime even if you never press revenge

[maiden forge]

I miss banner

[cedar willow]

I think Im sending too many right now with it bound to SS on a macro. I want to know the bare minimum I need to press it so I can revenge

[vocal cave]

Same as shield block lmao and you actually need to be reactive since you cant recover on your own

[plush tendon]

what is there to recover from?

[pallid quiver]

Like I said above, you don't even need to actually track SB

[plush tendon]

SB is op

IP is spent as a dump

and you have CDs for days

[pallid quiver]

You can go into a dungeon and do what I said above and be fine. You won't be perfect, but like

[plush tendon]

prot war's going to low health just means you didnt press the correct CD

[pallid quiver]

oh well

[plush tendon]

plus, Spell Block is bonkers

[pallid quiver]

It's harder to recover from mistakes as a Prot War, but DK is more likely to just pop Purg/Die from a mistake in exchange

[plush tendon]

lets block all spells for 30 seconds

[remote anchor]

you do not macro them together

thats crazy

[plush tendon]

Revenge is the last priority

[violet ginkgo]

[pallid quiver]

It ends up depending on how much rage you generate; the more you generate, the more IP you press. If you think about it as "At 60-80 rage, press IP once" and just never think about rage otherwise, you'll have rage for revenges

[cedar willow]

Thank you for the assistance and feedback

[mighty valley]

+1 unmacro it from ss asap

[jagged gust]

Wait, I'm starting to see the pattern here, Fury warrior doesn't want to press execute, prot war doesn't can't press IP, Arms is almost incentivized to not press OP

[daring wind]

Wdym that arms doesn’t want to use OP and fury Execute?

[pallid quiver]

I haven't kept up with Arms changes, but Fury for a long while hasn't really prio'd Execute outside of very situational buffs

since it, like

just doesn't do as much damage as even the non-buffed normal abilities

[daring wind]

So I’m not playing fury wrong then cool

[pallid quiver]

The specifics change from patch to patch/expac, but since Execute is a generator for Fury, it traditionally doesn't hit as hard as Execute for Arms/Prot

[daring wind]

Raging Blow just hits harder and it buffs Rampage

[pallid quiver]

And kneejerk, I want to say they're trying to move the focus on Arms to just press Mortal Strike every time it's available, no matter what, hence things like the Colossus change. But I haven't kept up with the immediate Arms changes, so

[daring wind]

Sudden Death executes do buff Bladestorm tho so it has that right? For Slayer anyway

[pallid quiver]

Slayer will normally end up pressing it once it has full Marked for Death stacks iirc

hence situational buffs

[urban bane]

You want Marked for Execution stacks. And a few conditions. There's a WA, when it sounds off you press execute. I think this one oughta do it https://wago.io/r8u4tHLRQ

[dusky canopy]

[daring wind]

I have WAs to track both the execute debuff and the bladestorm buff

[urban bane]

was hopin those changes sense eluded to would be pushed this week, guess it is lookin more like a next week thing?

[pallid quiver]

they saw sense rat them out, so no more changes in retaliation

we live with what we have

[wild chasm]

Asked about this just today and we got it killed lol. Tank was the problem?

[pallid quiver]

Spell Block for princess is very good, for the record

It doesn't block the initial hit, but it does mitigate the dot

[crimson furnace]

are u guys using SB when off-tanking??

and if yes, both charges or just using 1 and leaving 1?

ty!

[jagged pier]

U can kind of send it and forgor atm but best practice is up enough and still have 2 charges back for when u start tanking

[storm stone]

trying to get in a queen kill group without having AOTC

is fricken rough man

[pallid quiver]

Even if you have AOTC at this point in the season, there's not too many pug groups that are successful

A large majority of people doing raids at this point aren't quite so good at the whole mechanics thing

[storm stone]

i did queen skip with this guy, never mess up a mechanic and he boots me when we get to queen, i assume because he wanted a tank with higher ilvl than 611

it is what it is but it sucks

[pallid quiver]

at least from what i've been told; every group at any point i've been in has had trouble on 2nd boss, Brood, and Ansurek guaranteed

[storm stone]

really brood?

seemed simple enough to me honestly

[pallid quiver]

It's against every reflex most players have to stand on eggs

I've seen an evoker yank a guy onto an egg since he refused to move, and he instantly leaped away from the egg

[storm stone]

i understand needing some practice in, but do people just not watch guides?

[pallid quiver]

I legitimately don't even care what eggs are broken as long as you break an egg; it's fine if you get empowered adds on heroic, especially at this point

[pallid quiver]

Most don't

Legitimately, most players do not watch guides or read or anything. They don't even look at the dungeon journal.

Among that group, there's probably like half? that don't even run boss mods

[storm stone]

thats wild to me dude

like im forced to pug due to being a shift worker

but like, i cant imagine not making an effort to get to your loot more easily

[pallid quiver]

And most people are literally incapable of learning the process of how a fight goes; they only ever learn what a mechanic does

they will never know that brood does a tank buster, then goes to a container, does container mech, then egg + tank buster roughly similar time frame

They're just physically incapable of understanding that, so a lot of players can never pre-plan for mechs

[storm stone]

in that respect i hate the tank nerfs

[oblique garnet]

People read those? Isnt it more fun to figure out as you go

[pallid quiver]

At least you said it's fun

[oblique garnet]

I mean i played games because they were fun

What other reason is there

[pallid quiver]

The greater portion of people I've ~~had the unfortunate of ~~ talking to mostly say it's because mechanics are "so easy" and that they're good enough to just "learn by doing, y'know"

Because it's literally an ego thing

[oblique garnet]

But its the truth tho the game mechanics arent hard

[pallid quiver]

oh but everyone else should read/watch guides because they're not as awesome as TURBO DONG JIM, SAVIOR OF ALL RAIDS

[oblique garnet]

They are extremely telegraphed

[pallid quiver]

I'd agree, but for TURBO DONG JIM, they just keep getting cheated by Blizz. How were they supposed to know that you shouldn't stand in fire graphics as your HP goes down?

and mechanics just come out of nowhere. You can't ever expect them.
what's a timer bar

[jagged gust]

In my guild we'll run the first week of raid/dungeons completely blind and try to figure it out as we go, honestly its a blast

[oblique garnet]

Best part is that ingame sounds tell you the mechanics but people are just way too fixated on listening to hardstyle etc on full blast they keep missing them

[pallid quiver]

My experience is that people are too invested in their drug use or other things to pay attention to abilities and sounds

or pressing buttons

[willow edge]

I mean my guild has a handful of people who are so mechanic allergic. If they get the mechanic odds are they fail it and we wipe.

[storm stone]

thats actually a funny as shit way to put it when you hear the bong over voip

[willow edge]

Pretty tiring honestly

[oblique garnet]

Its the lack of attention span that is just caused by all bs tiktoks etc

[pallid quiver]

oh they've definitely got the attention span of champions for the people i've had times being in vc with

it's just not being spent on the game at all

[willow edge]

Yeah people like to discount it as “it’s just a video game why do you care” like they aren’t wasting your time everytime you wipe lol

[tribal wharf]

"its just a video game bro" 30 k achievements, multiple KSM, multiple AOTC, buying gold to buy runs and gear

[jagged gust]

The stoners are an absolute menace (Me included) But the people who like to go skiing? Those fuckers can lock in for 14 hours straight

[tribal wharf]

16 gb of addon ram usage

ya, like, its kinda more better if it comes from actual noob

[storm stone]

yep

3 pug wipes on brood just now

cuz ppl didnt understand the egg breaks

i wonder if people are just always this terminally bad

[oblique garnet]

Are you not locked in all the time? is that normal

[storm stone]

or if its being reliant on weakauras

[eternal kelp]

Because someone else will handle the mechanic

[pallid quiver]

Definitely this

I think it's more of a playerbase mindset issue, personally

There's few people out there who I think legitimately could not do mechs. I think most major mechs like that could even be done with base UI and everything

People just get all into their own shit over this game for some reason

[jagged gust]

In m+ ? Every single second, hell I may actually be prescient in dungeons. In raid? I had to make a WA that yells at me when SB caps

I will zone out mid pull and start fantasizing about my next Baldurs Gate 3 comp

[oblique garnet]

Not just in games but all the time?¿

[pallid quiver]

It's the same thing as to why we see people going, "Well, what if on a Tuesday at dawn during the aurora borealis on the second of February I possibly need Shield Wall? So I should never press it"

[oblique garnet]

[oak ivy]

Is monk the move if I like my steady healthbar and don't feel like getting gutted

[jagged gust]

Well BDK, VDH, Bear and PPal are automatically out so your choices are a little limited

[native ember]

man i just started tanking this season and all this bs for season 2 just seems wild to me when ppally legit does dmg like a dps and gets bubble like every min and halfand gets 0 nerfs

[jagged gust]

https://tenor.com/view/first-time-meme-first-time-the-ballad-of-buster-scruggs-gif-24656975

[native ember]

i mean ive mained warrior all of wow but i just started tanking and have been enjoying tf out of it cant say im surprised just sucks

[jagged gust]

Well got like 6 weeks of being meta, which was better than the zero weeks from the previous 2 seasons (3 if you count S4 as a season)

Plus we walked in to this expansion expecting nerfs since we were more or less untouched from DF

Was bound to happen eventually, fun while it lasted

[pallid quiver]

actually we were mostly coming in expecting a rework from what i recall

since like every other tank had gotten touched other than us

[native ember]

pretty sure everyones got ar ewwork except what brew?

[jagged gust]

Haven't heard much from brm's this season (I can count on one finger how many I've ran with this season) But I kind of expect they still need the rework more so than we do

[pallid quiver]

Monk trees did get an overhaul at some point from the initial DF launch

was sometime in the middle of DF

Not what most people think of as a rework, but it was a reworking

i remember because i had to angrily grumble about figuring out where talents go again

[cyan bronze]

Meh

Bdk def is

But I think bear vdh ppal are fine

Depends how steady you want

[pallid quiver]

if you don't press death strike at all, BDK is pretty steady 🙂

[cyan bronze]

True

I would def say it’s like war brm bear vdh/ppal __________________ bdk tho

Idk where ppal falls entirely

Monk is also rather punishing tho

And I would say rotationally a bit more difficult than other tanks

[pallid quiver]

On the steady scale, it's like War/Brew Bear, Ppal, VDH/BDK or something

Ppal doesn't spike that hard thanks to SOTR and frequent CDs

but it's definitely not a brick

or the slowest drip in the land like brew

honestly, I'd say Brew is even steadier than Prot War; it just can't stop from taking damage instead

[cyan bronze]

I would not put vdh as bad as bdk

[jagged gust]

Really? Bear? From what I've seen their HP bar is basically a yoyo this season

[pallid quiver]

It's a loose scale

[jagged gust]

Then again I've ran with a grand total of 3

[cyan bronze]

I would say vdh is very easy to play poorly

[pallid quiver]

It's definitely steadier than BDK, but it's the idea that it heals more

[cyan bronze]

And playing poorly you lose so much frailty mit

[pallid quiver]

But all of this can change from patch-to-patch, with play, and with damage profiles

[cyan bronze]

Yeah

Also

Aldrachi reaver is pretty steady cus of absorb shield gaming

If you choose to play it

[pallid quiver]

Bear traditionally is pretty sturdy; not like Prot War/Brew kind, but it can stack up a healthy amount of IF, and when it does go down, FR is there to bring it back. It's traditionally sturdier than P Pal

but hero talents/damage profiles/etc

[ember token]

Hm so they did some first adjustments to prot in new PTR patch

[full plover]

Holy shit

[pallid quiver]

These changes 100% confirm the issue wasn't really the rage economy; it was the speed of the spec

Which is still very weird to me

[vestal moat]

Colossus still in a world of hurt

[pallid quiver]

Prot Warrior wasn't dramatically faster than Prot Pala, but P Pala went untouched

[full plover]

Wonder if some devs hands hurt after playing pwar one day...

[pallid quiver]

The bloodsurge change will at least let Colo exist in M+ now

It

still won't be good even with the 3 extra rage due to Outburst being kneecapped

But it'll at least be able to be fucking played

Curious by how much the chance increase

[ember token]

Can't trust them to understand what they did was stupid, now band aiding the spec is bit silly... I would never understand non-meta tank in m+ or raid being gutten while numba 1 just left alone and improved (4set)

[pallid quiver]

Of note is that they restored rage gen to mostly automatic sources

[ember token]

Strategist is still 20%... so not sure if I enjoy

[pallid quiver]

I'm not sure Punish will be as good as it was since we're still casting notably less SS, but that's something to play with

The strategist change is probably the single biggest thing to nudge back imo

[urban bane]

Fuck it dude, I'm out

[pallid quiver]

As a whole,

I hate the entire design philosophy behind the changes

They're aiming to drop the skill ceiling and do something to the skill floor

i'm not sure if they're trying to raise it to be more punishing or lower it to make the spec auto-play itself at this point

It feels like grasping at straws to band-aid fix without literally removing the engine the spec works on

[chilly brook]

Lmao these changes are so bad

[urban bane]

Paladins get to go fast and better utility. And warrior gets grandma mode.

[pallid quiver]

This is the part that completely confuses me

Like P Pal and Prot War are relatively close in terms of actual buttons pressed

but no one ever complains that P Pal is fast from everything I see

[sharp olive]

4 set is literally machine gun spec for Pally now

[pallid quiver]

So it just cruised on by

[urban bane]

yup

[pallid quiver]

I haven't even looked at tier sets

so if it makes it go faster, well,

We're gonna be inching on banner speeds soon

Both Prots are hovering around like 90 CPM (Thane) when played well from every log I've checked in uninterrupted rotation time, so

[sharp olive]

Paladin 4 set refunds holy power during "luck" proc

So you just spamming SotR now when it happens, apparently it adds around 20 rpm

APM*

[pallid quiver]

I saw refund holy power and already knew where that was going

[chilly brook]

no prot paladin or vengeance dh changes

I feel more justified in just playing DH next season in keys

[sharp olive]

Nah, light smith was nerfed

[chilly brook]

oh boy health restribution can only occur once

such a huge nerf

[pallid quiver]

can even be a buff in some circumstances i'd wager

I have no idea about other class changes so much since I was looking at War

SS will still generate less rage baseline for Colo due to Imp Wall being 4 to 0, so Colo getting 3 effectively leaves base SS at still -1 rage

[bleak breach]

Guys question

Does the tier set activate immovable object?

[pallid quiver]

I don't believe it does, no

Same as the Thane proc

[bleak breach]

That’s disappointing

[karmic plinth]

it didnt in the last build

[pallid quiver]

^^^

[bleak breach]

So the tier sucks then

[pallid quiver]

yeah our tier is aggressively bad

[bleak breach]

I swear ours always suck

Can’t remember the last really good tier set we had

[sharp olive]

This is true

[karmic plinth]

even if io worked with it i think itd be stinky to drop UF for it

[bleak breach]

The one at end of DF was good but got nerfed over an over

[pallid quiver]

SL S3-4 because of outburst

DF S3-4

[karmic plinth]

both of them were bangers

[pallid quiver]

DF S2 was fine after it got tuning nobbed to playable levels

[oak ivy]

how do we feel about these patch notes

[pallid quiver]

Personally, not good at all

[urban bane]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-keaton-hand-job-multiplicity-gtfoh-blow-me-gif-9304094

[pallid quiver]

Performance wise, better than before

I don't have specific numbers for you

especially since it doesn't state what the chance increase on bloodsurge is

[north atlas]

So no 1 likes the changes

[karmic plinth]

from the datamine post it could be doubled

[oak ivy]

They're trying to compensate rage homicide with aura buffs but I don't think that's gonna help it be fun still

[karmic plinth]

it seems like they want to have our rage be smoother and overall have us press ip less

[mighty valley]

i want to know if they would like us to be able to press a button every global or nah

[deep steppe]

its better to be buffed vs nerfed, but it doesn't fix the problem

[north atlas]

Do u not think the increase to bloodsurge will help?

[sharp olive]

Ultimately these notes tell me blizzard know there's a problem, which means there's still hope for more reverts or fixes

[mighty valley]

it’ll help but the reduced ss resets is what hurts our ability to keep casting the most

[pallid quiver]

Most rage sources are also being moved into automated sources (Instigate/Bloodsurge/passive SS rage) instead of the unique features of genning rage (Booming Voice, Outburst, SC, etc)

[pallid quiver]

I don't think they care, as long as spec is slower

[mighty valley]

they do call this process “ongoing” which is nice, I’m just hoping for a clearer articulation of the goals

which they probably won’t do

[pallid quiver]

The goal I'm pretty positive is to slow the spec and more automate rage gen

making the spec easier to play from a get go since the spec will play itself more for you, as Prot War was a very difficult tank before

[karmic plinth]

i think they don't want us to have globals where we get a big dump of rage at once

[pallid quiver]

It's not as important to manage outburst, or to make sure to cast Demo Shout on CD, etc

since you'll just get rage instead

[bleak breach]

I haven’t tested on ptr or anything, are the changes that bad? Or were just assuming they will be?

[pallid quiver]

Before these buffs,

it was fucking terrible

[bleak breach]

Was the issue just rage gen?

[chilly brook]

I feel like the dev is braindead and doesn't want to acknowledge what passed for his "ideas" to "fix" the spec were utterly regarded

cuz these changes are at odds with what they originally did

[onyx vessel]

Blizzard ahh warriors are too tanky still nerf bat

Other tanks we just self heal

[bleak breach]

If they wanted us to stop spamming IP just give us something else useful to put rage into

[pallid quiver]

They absolutely did not want to do that

[onyx vessel]

Revenge does like 10k

[pallid quiver]

I can understand why; it'd be a little difficult for most people to understand and manage, considering most people already mismanage IP. People also already complain Prot War has too many buttons

I'd, personally, prefer something like Heroic Strike/Cleave to come back, but

that's not happening

[bleak breach]

Yeah I agree

[pallid quiver]

That's not even remotely close to on the table

[sharp olive]

Bloodsurge from 10 to 20%

[bleak breach]

I would just like something you can press to put rage into when you don’t need mitigation

[onyx vessel]

It does have too many

[bleak breach]

Wether they make revenge hit hard again or as you said a heroic strike equivalent

[onyx vessel]

It is only way to apply deep wounds aoe

[bleak breach]

I will have to jump on later and have a crack.
Biggest issue I have is the strategist change, seems really unnecessary

[bleak breach]

It is, but I think it should do X amount extra damage below 3 targets

[storm stone]

we got buffeD?

[onyx vessel]

Considering we drop bloodsurge if we need aoe silence

[toxic pewter]

best change on ptr yet

[ember token]

Blizzard masterminds, take 4, give 3 make people think they won 😉

[toxic pewter]

at least colossus gets some rage generation

and they restored 5 rage and buffed bloodsurge procrate

[ember token]

It feels like one of the best strats, takes as much as you can. Even if that is stupidly high amount. And slowly give some back to see at which point someone will say 'prot is ok'. But until Strategist is back, this is still shit.

[urban bane]

[ember token]

And they can put their 4set where the sun dont go

[chilly brook]

except it's still worse than what colossus had before the nerfs?

[toxic pewter]

oh did they change the talent to that or add it to what it was

if they changed it to 3 rage thing then yeah that is bad but I assumed they added it to the prexisting talent

[jagged gust]

It was added with the PTR notes, yes

[chilly brook]

The problem is colossus generated more than that pre nerf through the prot tree

[toxic pewter]

ok yeah then I am happy with colossus getting some rage gen woot BIG WIN

well that is in the past, we have to live in the now

[chilly brook]

I am living in the now

I get more than that on live

[toxic pewter]

sigh

[chilly brook]

[toxic pewter]

you livin in the past as usual

those times are gone

[chilly brook]

Live servers are very much "now"

[jagged gust]

I plan to embrace colo and enjoy being able to live through fyralath stunning me inside of aoe

[chilly brook]

and not "gone"

[toxic pewter]

well im on the ptr

this season is dead basically

i moved on like 3 months ago

[chilly brook]

I haven't seen the announcement of the end of the season yet

I still have io to farm

[toxic pewter]

became #1 ranked vulpera arms warrior in solo shuffle and bg blitz in the meantime

wait people are still doing m+

[chilly brook]

I'd like to actually push as far as I can pug this season so yeah

[toxic pewter]

interesting

[chilly brook]

At the very least I'm like 1 dungeon away from 3k

granted I haven't been actively pushing for a couple weeks now

[toxic pewter]

you got this i believe in u

[jagged gust]

I don't even have my cot portal yet

[toxic pewter]

yeah ngl I was not a huge fan of many of the dungeons

i stopped doing m+ and went into pvp world

[jagged gust]

Oddly I fell in love with GB/SV but that's about all I enjoyed this season

[toxic pewter]

ya those 2 are great dungeons

[chilly brook]

both goated tbh

everyone is just velvet brain on them

[mighty valley]

gb gets bonus points for turning a cata dungeon into something good

[chilly brook]

Remember when they said they wanted to have us have more decision making in how to spend our rage

And they haven’t done anything to actually make it be a real decision?

[jagged gust]

Well now you have to make the decision of whether you press IP or have several empty GCDs

Revenge aint gonna cast itself

[chilly brook]

Imagine if they just did something with revenge instead of all these silly decisions

Like a talent that trades something but makes it cast IP or something

Or every cast of revenge buffs something

Idk

Like so many other interesting ideas

[toxic pewter]

they should just remove revenge and ignore pain and come up with something cooler

[jagged gust]

Capped rage gives you a passive buff that increases SS crit damage

[chilly brook]

Or execute casts buffing revenge

Or shield slam or something

Oooooorrrr (and here’s my favorite and best of all most practical idea) double our rage pool and then all of a sudden none of this is an issue

Bigger rage pool just benefits everyone

Without introducing any real power creep

[jagged gust]

Well I can't see us not speccing in to +30 rage, so we're nearly halfway there

[willow edge]

Gnome warrior superiority for max rage increase?

If we end up with empty globals it might actually force us to use devastate just to always have a button to press

[pallid quiver]

we wouldn't use devastate since instigate got buffed

You're more likely to run out in ST than AOE

[willow edge]

Was it enough of a buff though

[pallid quiver]

and going from 1 to 2 and having auto attack resets

is going to be better

than a button you still rarely press

[willow edge]

Fair enough

[small steeple]

Prot warrior ptr buffs,
1st, are they live on ptr?
2nd, are they enough to help after the nerfs?

[toxic pewter]

ptr servers down

[cyan bronze]

Bloodsurge is nice

[hardy snow]

oh god, those dev notes... they basically try to fix what they broke with previous nerfs...

"hey, Ive just stabbed you, here is a bandage for you"

[analog lantern]

it's cringe

[hardy snow]

XD

I think i was teached different definition of "improving" XD

[cyan bronze]

What was previous bloodsurge proc rate value

data mined from 10->20

was it 20 before changes?

[hardy snow]

dont look at these wowhead's "datamines"

[cyan bronze]

Yeah true

Just curious as I believe it was previously changed

[pallid quiver]

I thought I remembered it at 5%, but my memory on old PTR is absolutely terrible, ngl

[cyan bronze]

[hardy snow]

Previously (on first 11.1 dev notes) they only nerfed value to 3 rage, now they bring back 5 and increase it's proc chance.

this clearly shows they have no fkin idea what are they doing, only that they want to nerf fun of our spec

[pallid quiver]

Actually, at this point, I think they have a very solid idea of what they're doing

we just don't like it

[hardy snow]

well, their idea is to just slow down spec that people liked for it's pace

but if they nerf talent that they buffed few months ago, now they buff talent they nerf in previous ptr notes to be even stronger than its on life - thats a mess

[pallid quiver]

Not everyone liked how fast Prot War was. On top of that, not everyone was fine with the number of buttons it has

[hardy snow]

I know, but thats why there are also other tank specs.

[pallid quiver]

Telling someone to just change to an entirely different class because they don't like the optimized game style is bad imo

I'd preferred they kept the speed of the spec and the playerbase giving people less shit, or to give options for slower play

they could have utilized colossus for that

Instead they brought the whole spec down

[hardy snow]

But if they were working on "slowing down" spec, decided that bloodsurge must be nerfed, then they decide few weeks later it must be stronger than it is on life - thats weird

[cyan bronze]

Colossus eating good (assuming it was a buff to rage not a nerf LOL)

[hardy snow]

Yeah, that would be a good idea

[pallid quiver]

No one should be gatekept from playing a class for the flavor imo, so skill floors should generally be fairly low

[pallid quiver]

More notably, they moved rage from more active sources (Outburst, Booming Voice) to more passive sources (Instigate, Bloodsurge)

[cyan bronze]

I don’t think they realized how gutted our rage rly was

Tbh

[west snow]

No strategist reversion is unfortunate

[cyan bronze]

Think bloodsurge change is to fix it to a degree

[pallid quiver]

I think they wanted a ground floor to start from, and then to build back up to a spot they're comfortable with

[hardy snow]

Yea, but if month ago they decided that nerfing bloodsurge will help them achieve their goals and they go opposite way in such short period, for me that shows they know what they want to do, but they don't know what their changes are gonna actually change

[cyan bronze]

It’s ptr

They wanted to test how it was going to be

[hardy snow]

They've came up with an idea, now they noticed they f**ked up and are trying to fix it.

[cyan bronze]

It was joe

They are trying to make it into a spot they wanted to

You’re acting like this is not something that happens

[west snow]

The hefty buff to SS damage makes reverting the strategist nerf impossible.

[native ember]

its like yall broke the shit just leave it tf alone lol

[cyan bronze]

Blizzard is unhappy with the state of prot warrior🤷

[kind urchin]

It's still not stronger than live. Live is a chance to proc on all bleeds. PTR is only deep wounds.

[cyan bronze]

Just be happy we didn’t get gutted more

Maybe we can be ok by 12.1 by this point

[hardy snow]

You're right, my bad, forgot about that. So now it's basically same if using spear instead of roar and slightly worse if using roar.

[teal sequoia]

It's odd to me that they are scrutinizing warrior so hard in the first place when we were not the overperforming tank by any metric

[cyan bronze]

It’s not scrutinizing xd

[hardy snow]

It's not about changing performance, but the playstyle.

[cyan bronze]

Blizzard is unhappy with prot warrior

Independent of their performance

[hardy snow]

If it will be needed, they will give us even 15-20% dmg buff to compensate.

[cyan bronze]

Give us a 300% devastate buff

[violet flume]

i think they jsut didnt like the massive overflow of rage coupled with pressing ignore pain every second

[hardy snow]

And there was no such thing with colossus.

[cyan bronze]

no1 rly played colossus

[violet flume]

never said blizz made a smart deicision with their change hehe

[cyan bronze]

is another part of the issue

[west snow]

Wut

[cyan bronze]

it was good for dmg but largely thane was much more popular than colossus

[violet flume]

personally i like the super high apm play but i can see how its a bit.. toxic gameplay? idk

[hardy snow]

colossus wasnt popular, because of lacking rage gen it was harder to survive, and (what a surprise) survival is actually important for most tank players

[teal sequoia]

Right

[cyan bronze]

so they either wanted the (perceived) bad tree played
or the one (perceived) no one likes

[teal sequoia]

So I'm confused why were nerfing rage gen, when thane was the issue , and colossus had lower rage, and no one played it

[cyan bronze]

no one played it so it’s not a concern

[teal sequoia]

Just feels ham fisted

[violet flume]

as someone who switched to brew it makes me scared theyll touch the spec now lmao

[cyan bronze]

LOL yeah right

brew getting patch notes

[hardy snow]

yea, I liked when during DF I was scrolling class changes and they were usually ending at "warlock"

[cyan bronze]

ok

[violet flume]

lmao i know

brew perfect class according to blizz

[cyan bronze]

it simply is tho

[violet flume]

and yeah jawor i feel most of the time ive played as protwar theres never changes

[hardy snow]

turns out, it was actually reason to be happy XD

[violet flume]

i love brew i just hate the fact they think its so good that they wrote "we want brew to take more damage than other tanks"

then i go on my protwar and i see how smoother i am and take no damage

[cyan bronze]

Brew is the 2nd best tank rn if you look at some metrics

maybe it’s changed in recent weeks

[teal sequoia]

Brew catches bad rep because no one plays it, but man ive seen some down right wild brew mains

[violet flume]

yeah bad brew is no good, you have 20% damage reduction only if you press nothing

[teal sequoia]

Stagger is just hard to balance i guess, one of those it's broken or it's underwhelming concepts

[violet flume]

to me protwar is the forever survival chad imo

[teal sequoia]

Amen

[strong needle]

We still in AFK-APM mode

I play red bar because red bar go up and down fast

if red bar slow, fun is slow

[violet flume]

protwar with just normal blocks take as much damage as a monk with stagger.. before they take any stagger damage

[teal sequoia]

Unga Unga zug zug is the wayyy

[cyan bronze]

monk heals more

prot has a lot of upfront mit

comparing tank dmg taken numbers directly is silly

[violet flume]

i mean people think brew is the smoothest damage taken tank

[strong needle]

Warrior class fantasy is unga-bunga, but blizzard no want to bunga our unga. We just furry without a fur-suit now

[violet flume]

i know they heal for more

[cyan bronze]

all dmg isn’t blockable either

think most/all? dmg is staggerable

magic less but still more than we block (w/o spb)

[violet flume]

ya its like 40% stagger for magic, so if you purify half it should average to 20% magic DR i assume, so a bit better than defensive stnace + benefit of staggering it

all i know is tanking last necortic wake boss on brew vs warrior.. lol

im fighting for my life on brew.. warrior i dont notice anything

i almost thought it was magic damage

[cyan bronze]

Last boss of necrotic is physical and i believe blockable

Yeah

[violet flume]

ya

gives lots of expel harm orbs at least

[cyan bronze]

Also

I fucking love hitting zen meditation

Brew is top 1 spec of all time for that

[violet flume]

yeah its niche but its good when you can use it

ring of peace pretty poggers too

[round pendant]

did they revert the apocalypse yet

[pallid quiver]

They're not going to

[round pendant]

what the fuck am I gonna play then

[pallid quiver]

We got some buffs to rage gen, but not at all close to where we were, and they adjusted Punish/BFI to accomadate less SS

[willow edge]

A fun dps spec

[pallid quiver]

^^^

[willow edge]

Whatever that is lol

[pallid quiver]

Bleed the pool of tanks

[round pendant]

I have to tank

[pallid quiver]

Play World of Tanks then

[willow edge]

Prot war is the only tank I like

[round pendant]

prob 4-5manning s2

[willow edge]

But they were the best tank in classic and blizzard still hasn’t forgiven that fact

[pallid quiver]

Tell your group "Sorry, they violated Prot War beyond all belief, I'm done playing, my bad"

[willow edge]

Can anyone else in your 4/5 mans tank instead

Other tanks are looking good

[round pendant]

sad thing is one of the people I'm gonna play with is also in the same situation

it was gonna be great

we could play dps or tank depending on who wants to do what or just take turns

but now we're both doomers over the changes

[willow edge]

Sounds familiar

All my friends keep shitting on me when they ask me about prot war changes lol

Like they don’t get shitty when they get hard nerfs

[round pendant]

god why couldn't they just adjust SS so you press it a lot still

but press IP less

without basically killing 30% of the procs and etc

I understand the IP spam being kinda bleh gameplay

but SS spam is the fun part

[willow edge]

Increase ignore pain effectiveness but make it cost more rage. Make revenge more effect and cost more rage

I’d be happier with if you had devastate to push when you had nothing else, but you also had a talent that buffed your auto attack damage/ rage gen as well

[round pendant]

at least Fury is chill and fun and they're not gutting that

[willow edge]

Shield slam resets are definitely enjoyable but if we’re gonna stand around like idiots not waiting for resets

[willow edge]

For now

I play arms as my os

[round cliff]

so they gave us compensation buffs for the initial wave of nerfs

does it work out like at all

[willow edge]

Will wait to see what people who test ptr say. I’m gonna place my bets on “no” cause our reset chance is still 20%

[round pendant]

ignore pain is a kinda crappy meh ability anyway

would prefer making revenge more relevant

[round cliff]

ofc as soon as i potentially get a raid tank spot they take my tank and turn the apm down by a bajillion %

should i just play brm

[round pendant]

eh apm =/= fun anyway

[willow edge]

If they actually buff revenge and ignore pain numbers that would be great

[cyan bronze]

They did once

[round pendant]

I don't actually enjoy the spamming IP to avoid capping rage part of the spec

but I enjoy SS procs

[willow edge]

I play colossus and revenge still feels like a wet noodle

[round pendant]

yeah revenge has never felt good

[cyan bronze]

Ignore pain at least

[willow edge]

If revenge had a talent that increased its damage significantly, but it reduced per target hit that would make it feel a lot more useful.

[round cliff]

it'd feel a lot more useful if it didnt sound and feel like a wet noodle

why does it have no impact sound

[cyan bronze]

Blizzard hates brown class

[willow edge]

It’s like rogues old sound effects for ambush and backstab used to be great. Now they also are just nothing

Guns and crossbows sounding like peashooters

[small steeple]

last boss of nw is actually physical damage

[violet flume]

tbh i feel like revenge would just feel better if it didnt cost rage at this point

or bring back devastate and make revenge a dps rage dump

[errant wagon]

Hey y'all! Is there a condensed list of tricks that can be done with Intervene in TWW M+ dungeons, similar to how there is a spell reflect/block list? 🙂

Like I know on the first boss of NW, you can intervene the vomit, and that is super powerful. Wondering if there are any other really useful tricks for intervene like that across the other dungeons

[violet ginkgo]

no list

[obsidian girder]

Morning, saw the Ptr changed a few minutes ago. They tweaked numbers but nothing really got changes to get back to real rage gen or am I missing something

[violet ginkgo]

you are not missing anything

[obsidian girder]

Kk

[heavy temple]

I don't understand the changes. Are they actually making revenge even worse to press, and compensate it by passive procs?

[jagged pier]

'As we continue to improve prots rotation' okay blozz there was nothimg wrong wtih it lets be honest, 'as we try and fix the mess we made'

[onyx pike]

imagine just reverting it back to current state, would be 5head

[jagged pier]

Not happenong

[onyx pike]

Buffs don't look tooooo shabby tho.

could be worse, atleast we get something.

[jagged pier]

Not near close to enough

[onyx pike]

[jagged pier]

Think of how much rage we lost and they given us fuck all back

[little ermine]

bring back SL S4 prot warrior, peak fun for me

[onyx vessel]

Time to reroll pally

[willow edge]

Ive literally never played bloodsurge before this next patch might make me\

[jagged pier]

your going to have too

[north atlas]

Wonder how much a massive increase is

[waxen cradle]

The true ignorance of the initial changes is who if anyone asked for these changes ? I mean people were enjoying the spec as it currently is on live servers so they changed it to take away enjoyment

[willow edge]

Every expac is basically war okay-good in season 1, nerfed in season 2 cause screw that spec xD

[waxen cradle]

Hey on the upside now I get the idea behind the name for S2. "Undermined" how truly accurate

[signal field]

So at the end of season 1 we are all going into hibernation again?

[willow edge]

Seems to be the way

I dont like fury so unless arms is reasonably fun to play im prob just playing frost mage or such

[jagged pier]

have fun in queue simulator

[willow edge]

More fun than a scuffed tank

[signal field]

i just go to a different tank and let my warrior take a little vaca until next expac

[willow edge]

When they decided like halfway throuhg dragonflight to nerf healers repeatedly I rerolled from healing lol

[wicked pollen]

gm jakey

[jagged pier]

gm

[hardy snow]

yea, I laughed on this "improving" as well...

[frosty holly]

Ugh, can they just revert the old changes.

[jagged pier]

well i think from the note we can deduce they wont be reverting the changes

[frosty holly]

Ye i know. But for sure is frustrating they arnt and instead doing these "buffs"

Already unhappy with Arms and Fury this expansion why did the have to touch the spec i love for M+ also

[orchid frigate]

so blizzard is doubling down on prot war changes?

[jagged pier]

appears so yes

[orchid frigate]

classic

[jagged pier]

but the question is did u all do the work to give your feedback to bliz?

[willow edge]

Classic "We have made a decision, fuck you and your class of choice"

[jagged pier]

cause if u didnt

u should be angry at yourself

so if u didnt go to the forums and report and hte ptr and report

u only have yourself to blame in some part

[frosty holly]

Since when did they last ever listen to warriors tho

Mages complain. Get fixes

[willow edge]

"Blizzard you fuckwits stop nerfing warrior"

[frosty holly]

Warrior complain on forums

Eh

it is what it is

[willow edge]

Theyll listen to that feedback right

[jagged pier]

well they are listening to ppl

on the forums

thats why we got the changes

[willow edge]

Repeat

[jagged pier]

#protection message

if your complaining that theyt arent reverting and u didnt go to the forums and give feedback thats just like complaining about the governement u have but not voting

you need to actually do somthing about it if u want change

just complaining in here aint gunna do nothing

[frosty holly]

Are they tho? Because they for sure didn't buff the correct things

[jagged pier]

depends what the overall feedback was form ptr/forums,

generall message at least was they took too much rage gen away

and already i can tell them they havent given enough back for ST at least

havent tested the BS change yet that might be fine for aoe

but imma x on that

[north atlas]

Agreed, but some of us( like me) may not word things right or be knowledgeable enough to make valid arguments wich in turn would hurt the cause

[jagged pier]

no all you have to say it, these changes arent the right direction, i liked the way warrior played

u dont need anything too in depth

just say this is worse and makes u not want to play the spec etc

then they at least get the message the may be doing somthing wrong

[hardy snow]

I don't know how situation on forums looks now, but few days ago when I checked, they didn't even create us an official topic for feedback, so there were few different topics created by users, most were negative

[hardy snow]

" these changes are the right direction"

[verbal venture]

They have reverted the % chance on SS reset to 30?

[willow edge]

No

[jagged pier]

no

[verbal venture]

I see 30% on the SS on wowhead

[north atlas]

Maybe, but if they wanna slow us down we need more of a dmg buff and make ip more powerful

[willow edge]

Wowhead is lying to you or blizzard didnt list the revert, somehow I suspect the former lol

[jagged pier]

the 30% thing is strategist not SS

its a weird datamining thing

which is why u follow blue posts

[verbal venture]

Daaaamn didn't read is datamined...

[hardy snow]

with these "datamined changes" most funny for me, when they just update PTR with some changes that were made on live, so PTR also have them, and wowhead posts them like they datamined something new

[tardy abyss]

These changes make it even more obvious no dev knows how pwar works atm

All they did is compensate some damage but it does not fix the main concern

[jagged pier]

[tardy abyss]

Why not revert the changes, slightly adjust the rage gen on various talents and make revenge deal significantly more damage so it is actually an option

idgi

How hard can it be to understand that revenge has a higher opportunity cost due to gcd

[hardy snow]

just make revenge off gcd and suddenly we dont spam IP anymore

[tardy abyss]

Right

Well, still adjust the damage perhaps

But that would make a massive difference already

...despite missing that initial goal with the pwar changes

[warm coral]

Personally i dont mind the idea of having fewer chunkier casts, but doesnt seem to be compensetory enough even with the buffs

also not a math guy so fuck if i know given

[tardy abyss]

chunkier just doesnt do anything

We need to spend as much rage as possible because of anger management

[fast oracle]

Tanks aren't allowed to deal good damage. Or be anything but Paladins.

[tardy abyss]

Which hasnt been touched at all so far

[tardy abyss]

Wait until colossus becomes a viable option in comparison to thane, we put paladins in the dust then

[fast oracle]

deep breaths, bud

[tardy abyss]

lungs exploded

[next yacht]

Pala tank shouldnt be nerfed ,but all other tanks should be brought to their level.

[orchid frigate]

^

[cerulean tusk]

We got our first set of buffs, we will be there in another couple of aura mods

https://tenor.com/view/city-hunter-ryo-saeba-shrug-i-dont-know-i-dont-care-gif-14623021

I care more about how gameplay loop is affected, and the changes I seen so far has not made it better or more fun

[next yacht]

Fewer and fewer players are playing tanks,if they nerf pala instead of buffing the others they are crazy

[tardy abyss]

ye if they adjust pala then all tanks are in a rough spot

[cerulean tusk]

Fewer players play tanks, not cause dam: But cause they keep making them more clunky, and "skillfull" to play. On the cost of fun.

[tardy abyss]

First BDK, now pwar

[cerulean tusk]

BDK got gutted, trashed and thrown out the window. Now it is Warrior.

[tardy abyss]

Just watch them remove 2 def cds and give +10% armor on am for ppal

[cerulean tusk]

Watch them remove the bouncing shields, but increase consencration dam

[tardy abyss]

or remove hp gen on the hammers

That would gut them so hard

[cerulean tusk]

Some dev is currently taking notes

[tardy abyss]

That change would make them unplayable in M+

Genuinely

Id love to see it happen so I can read the rage posts

[cerulean tusk]

You know they would get cuddled and cared for asap

pinkboii is the new ♥favorite♥ child of blizz

[tardy abyss]

Nah mages still take that spot

and enhancers

[remote anchor]

[cerulean tusk]

Meh, I am sure they gonna come with more changes

[tardy abyss]

Probably

[cerulean tusk]

BDK going to get their 5sec window back and BS wont be trash
Pwarr getting their rotational flow back

trust

[tardy abyss]

[remote anchor]

if prot war is bad i got a excuse not to tank keys

[cerulean tusk]

Then the participation % of gdruid will rise!

Hurray!

Metrics!

[fast oracle]

problem is that we're going to suck more in raids because single target is the hardest hit

[north atlas]

And play lfr roulette

[remote anchor]

yea well tanking raids is boring anyway

[remote anchor]

i dont know what this means

[cerulean tusk]

We will be totally fine in raid, our one job is to taunt when it says taunt

we can do that

Also, IP double stack is stronger!

Wowsie!

Woop Woop

Yay

great gameplay

10/10

[north atlas]

Tryna get into keys as a dps blows

[cerulean tusk]

If you are behind the curve, it does. If community perception turns on Pwarrior...

Time to give up

[tardy abyss]

I mean they adjusted that a little

Raid tankiness will be more than fine, if not better

Damage prob still a bit less than rn

But its not like mythic raiding is peak content for tanks

[remote anchor]

tankiness and damage isnt even the issue people have because that will be adressed anyway

its gameplay mostly

[cerulean tusk]

Hear hear!

[tardy abyss]

Eh, tanking is boring as hell anyway

In raid

[cerulean tusk]

Well, M+ is another can of worms, if the Rage gain from bleeds is giga enough, then we just back to IP spam - and what they did didnt matter other than making things less interactive

._.

[tardy abyss]

mhm

[willow edge]

New favourite? They've barely had a bad patch since TBC lol

[cerulean tusk]

Nah, before I could beat pink on DPS

[willow edge]

That doesnt mean Pally was bad

[cerulean tusk]

And warrior has never been bad either

Always fine

everything is fine