With avatar
#protection
tardy abyss
understandable
pallid quiver
some are happy, some are mad
as it will always be as long as there are people on the spec who want it to be a 1-button rotation spec and those who want it to be an in-depth spec like DF Elementalist Enha
pallid quiver
I think Tempest is feels good, but I heavily preferred Ele Enha from DF
grim pilot
Moving aside big tuning
pallid quiver
i don't really fully enjoy the whole playstyle behind current Enha; been meaning to try PTR for it
There's worse out there, at least
cyan bronze
Oh this is neat as fuck.
@strong forum
u tried ptr?
idm if some specs are like that
too many devolve into it
urban bane
I wonder how those uptime and power spikes compare to what prot paladin and other high APM specs have goin on
torpid fiber
do you think we will still feel the sturdiest next patch after the nerfs?
i want to actually feel like a wall when i play tank and i dont really get that from other tank specs currently
kind urchin
do you think we will still feel the sturdiest next patch after the nerfs?
It's still pretty solid on ptr. It just feels terrible to play.
dusky canopy
Bfa s4 was just way to good
vital pollen
Fury feels super fun to me, just wish it had some more utility
dusky canopy
Also SL with banner
mighty arch
Came here for hope for prot warrior next patch. Now I’m hopeless 😦
jagged gust
https://youtu.be/HleH-7IUcQc?si=whXscR5pD977uMIs
I'm gonna trust the guy who decided to drop Enduring Alactrity for BSV
cyan bronze
I'm gonna trust the guy who decided to drop Enduring Alactrity for BSV
i don’t think that’s a great point
like
it’s just a for fun video
never said the guy was to be trusted or taken at his word 100%
cerulean tusk
Tierlists are very serious
cyan bronze
I forgot about that
kind urchin
Tierlists are very serious
Especially in the first week of ptr.
fallow nova
Been on a bit of a break, just saw the changes. We really gonna start manually using devastate just for something to press?
storm stone
uh quick question guys, if im saved to a boss and i join a fresh raid run does it make it not drop loot? or do i just become unable to roll on the loot
normal iron
uh quick question guys, if im saved to a boss and i join a fresh raid run does ...
loot still drops but u are ineligible
storm stone
ok sweet thank you
kind urchin
uh quick question guys, if im saved to a boss and i join a fresh raid run does ...
There are break points for number of eligible players and the number of pieces of loot that drop. You could potentially cause one less piece to drop.
storm stone
welp.
weak cedar
hi guys, just saw this on icyveins, which tanks are more forgiving of mistakes?
dark barn
Paladin if you have bubble
willow edge
Demon hunter is probably a good tank but I’ve encountered more bad DH players over the years than any other tank spec.
torn gulch
https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/item=228889/titan-of-industry
what a sexy shield next patch
pallid quiver
hi guys, just saw this on icyveins, which tanks are more forgiving of mistakes?
almost every other tanks has stronger self-healing capabilities, so if you get lower on HP, they have more ability to go back up; being at 15% HP isn't nearly as bad on DK for example, since you press death strike and bibbity bobbity boo, you're back all full HP most times
actually i'm pretty sure i should say every other tank has stronger self-healing; the only weird one otherwise would be brew since it may not actually always have healing orbs around
weak cedar
you would say bdk is more forgiving than prot war?
pallid quiver
In terms of specifically making mistakes like that
It's generally less forgiving to keep its mit going and playing the spec properly
but if you botch it, you have more ways to stabilize than prot war
north atlas
Other tanks get spiked tho so be rdy
I mess up alot, still feel safest as a prot warr
oak ivy
why no work
pallid quiver
he wants to bot smh
@target isn't a valid modifier, since it'd be considered effectively automation for targetted abilities
So you can only use @cursor or @player, the latter being allowed since it's just always at your own location, which you manage yourself
oak ivy
🫡
Suffering from "holy fuck I have a lot of buttons to press really fast" on ansurek prog and trying to make life easier bit by bit
hollow citrus
on that note, is throwing spear or ravager on yourself usually good enough for most packs in mythics? on my DK i'd just do DnD on myself, but it felt like it was a larger radius
mighty valley
I wouldn’t
The radius on ravager is big but it’s often helpful to throw it from max range
And the radius on spear is tightish, wanna throw in on the pack in front of you to make sure you get everything
pallid quiver
Spear on yourself generally gives you about half the range, ye
i actually have macros for both @player and @cursor, for the record, personally, but if you could only pick one, I'd use cursor
hollow citrus
thanks for the responses!
oak ivy
Hey I have a bit of an odd question, I'm not the greatest at managing my shield block uptime properly in raid(allowed to drop when not aggro, 100% uptime when aggro) and am taking a few unblocked hits to the tune of about 3% of incoming melees, and I'm a comfortable bit ahead of my cotank on DPS so aggro shouldn't be a concern, would I be a pariah if I took heavy repercussions in 2025
mighty valley
It’s extremely unlikely that maximizing tank dps is what’s gonna hold back your raid from killing bosses
So sure, if you wanna take that mental load off, go ahead, I won’t tell teacher
But yknow, something to work on, you have so much more block uptime than you need in raid
sweet summit
does the unblocked hits cause you to die or take too much healer attention? if no then i don't see thr problem 
pallid quiver
Honestly, as long as you mitigate the important tank damage, you'll be fine a majority of the time; tank damage is generally pretty low in raid. But if you don't want to think about it, it's not the worst thing in the world to swap to HR in raid.
But optimally, you should rock ITF and manage SB properly for the slight bump in damage due to the above tank damage being almost entirely telegraphed in raid
oak ivy
Honestly, as long as you mitigate the important tank damage, you'll be fine a ma...
I'm averaging 80% mit over the course of a night
quiet hearth
dumb dumb question does shield slam still scale with shield also?
pallid quiver
Hasn't for a long while
quiet hearth
okie
north atlas
Any good wa yall recommend to track sb uptime easier
ionic fern
do warriors find bleeds scary? when tanking?
They can get sketchy, from time to time,but we have the tools to deal with them. Generally speaking,some mechanics are there for healers to assist/deal with.
ionic fern
Any good wa yall recommend to track sb uptime easier
Most Prot specific WA packs have them,you just need to find one that fits you.
A lot of people like Nome's: #1269009097525694616 message
pearl zinc
They can get sketchy, from time to time,but we have the tools to deal with them....
thats what i figured, ty ty
tardy abyss
do warriors find bleeds scary? when tanking?
Every tank finds bleeds scary tbh
Except ppal when bubble is up I guess
willow edge
Hence the dwarf meta
tardy abyss
Yup
willow edge
In general bleeds just mean “healer heal me”
jagged pier
just parry it
tardy abyss
Even more so if you dont get decursed instantly
willow edge
I have memories of yelling in voice at ditsy healers in dragonflight “heal me I have a bleed. Heal me heal me heal me” 🤣
willow edge
The dangers of that setting “only show debuff I can dispel”
Oh sorry didn’t realise you had a bleed
ionic fern
1st boss GB is the worst tho
Why?
willow edge
Personally don’t really push past 20s of old. Or 10s/11s now.
tardy abyss
Module 
But yeah he seems to hold demo for it
And am I seeing it right? Does SpB actually work on that?
According to sheet it is not supposed to
Tho thats prob for the hits, not the bleed
willow edge
I’ve always held shield wall for it incase
sweet summit
none of the "ticks" got blocked
tardy abyss
It definitely ticks for more than 360k in a +16
Thats a ridiculously low number
I remember ticking for bit more than 1M per tick with wall up in a +14
ionic fern
It definitely ticks for more than 360k in a +16
Yeah,you can see that on the screen as well.
But it doesn't seem too bad honestly, just managing CDs/externals.
tardy abyss
Seeing ppals hp drop in a +18 GB is funny to watch
cerulean tusk
Just play overgeared BDK, and bleeds are of no concern 
cerulean tusk
I hate how that solves everything
lofty warren
Is pwar still dead next patch?
lavish solstice
did someone tested if the 2piece procs immovable object?
strong forum
Does not proc it
errant oriole
I just got done testing and immovable object when the set procs, it does proc a free avatar for 4 seconds
🙂
strong forum
Have I been lied to?
Or did you just happen to proc avatar from thane
Cuz that's also a possibility
Fuckin ey, now I gotta test myself
Can't trust word of mouth anymore
errant oriole
lol
tardy abyss
But we cant tell Blizz that if it actually works
errant oriole
my bad nomeratur 😛
errant oriole
i am curious if blizzard is trying to make more talent interactions with these sets for tanks?
jagged pier
errant oriole
😛
tardy abyss
^
errant oriole
I heard it procs more on brew as well idk though
jagged pier
errant oriole
lol jakey!
maybe I will just do what I did in shadowlands and main the warrior still 😛
jagged pier
some ppl
errant oriole
they did update a lot of them
jagged pier
because then again nothing has changed for warrior in expansions
so your WA will insta work
errant oriole
I will say on multi target it feels a tad slower, on ST it feels super slow, am I wrong?
strong forum
sounds about right
errant oriole
warrior tier looks cool imo 😛
jagged pier
I will say on multi target it feels a tad slower, on ST it feels super slow, am ...
it feels fucking trash
errant oriole
yes sir O_O
errant oriole
woooh!
jagged pier
errant oriole
lol
tardy abyss
We love 2-pointers
strong forum
wait hol up
is attt bugged
yeah it is
love it
the 10% stam increase
is missing
lovely
tardy abyss
ye
strong forum
🙂
errant oriole
-_-
strong forum
it was just a thane proc
tardy abyss
What a coincidence to also get the thane proc tho
strong forum
or just looked wrong
jagged pier
what did u take that i didnt 
errant oriole
yeah
errant oriole
well they moved talents and made some 1 pointers
strong forum
nah thats the change
its 1h spec
from 1 punto into 2
removed endurance training
baked it into reinforced plates
theres no point change
theres just 1 talent point we dont need to take anymore
errant oriole
oh?
strong forum
i aint ranking shit
kind urchin
Weapon spec and reinforced plates went 2 pointers from 1.
errant oriole
I agree this slow style feels poopy
errant oriole
I say bring tanks back to DF style 😛
errant oriole
I mean the extra power :P:P
little ermine
SL late season 4 necrolord playstyle was pleasant for me, i wouldn't say no to that^^
errant oriole
you right it didn't change, got better but still idk I feel like all tanks were fine in DF vs now
strong forum
SL late season 4 necrolord playstyle was pleasant for me, i wouldn't say no to t...
will never come back
its too hard for majority of the playerbase
sadly
little ermine
sadly, i know
errant oriole
brewmaster set bonus at the end of shadowlands was insane too
strong forum
it was dumb
errant oriole
haha
strong forum
here is a 40-80% HP increase but also every keg smash is a lay on hands
errant oriole
yes! 😛
they could of giving something like that to prot war, if you thunderclap it heals you like a lay on hands :P:P
kidding of course
strong forum
overpowered shit is not fun
errant oriole
i know im kidding
btw doesnt the tier set look kind of remind you of legions tier set?
antoris armor set
jagged pier
not at all
acoustic stone
After the 2nd boss in Ara'Kara should I just be going straight down the middle? I tried to go left like my normal route(on other tanks) and got blapped
tribal wharf
overpowered is indeed fun, broken and godly is whats not fun
jagged pier
After the 2nd boss in Ara'Kara should I just be going straight down the middle? ...
u never go down the middle
tribal wharf
cheating god mode shit into gta or whatever mgs, fastest way to drain all fun out of game
acoustic stone
I feel like I'm playing something really wrong then, the slow fucks me when webs come out. I can leap away but if there's a second round I'm usually toast
or am I just playing terribly wrong?
jagged pier
i mean u have leap avatar or intervene that can get u out of slows or circle
tardy abyss
I feel like I'm playing something really wrong then, the slow fucks me when webs...
Also keep Avatar for the slow
jagged pier
tardy abyss
Intervene can be tricky
tribal wharf
example, the powerd up version of the gravity gun in half life 2, its insanely overpowered but its not game ruining i guess is what im saying
strong forum
okay now lets test colossus ST
jagged pier
i wouldnt
acoustic stone
i mean u have leap avatar or intervene that can get u out of slows or circle
So I am just playing bad, thanks dawg 😄
strong forum
ST is so baaaad
jagged pier
i told u not too
jagged pier
tardy abyss
(go arms)
jagged pier
no
strong forum
still does infinite damage?
like huuuh
also i had 5 tierset procs
in 2.5 minutes
jagged pier
i would just take spear or UF (maybe) at least spear gives some rage
jagged pier
so does UF but u still want to prio rev
strong forum
strong forum
or i was just lucky
errant oriole
are you talking about unstoppable force?
kind urchin
My warrior at 660 on ptr as colossus was doing about 300k less dps than my 337 warrior on live. Thane was about 200k less. This is the worst shit I've ever seen.
Single target btw
strong forum
i refrained from posting any numberrs
but my assumption without sims is 15-20% ST dmg nerf
kind urchin
At this point I think you might be low balling that.
ionic fern
Can't trust word of mouth anymore
Can't believe you don't trust me. Smh.
jagged pier
Can't believe you don't trust me. Smh.
i trust
strong forum
this is dogshit
literally
get punished for pressing ignore pain
you WILL have rotational issues
if you use ignore pain on ST
jagged pier
jagged pier
strong forum
it literally stops you from pressing ignore pain
ionic fern
Don't you enjoy it?????
violet ginkgo
it literally stops you from pressing ignore pain
Unsub time then?
strong forum
this is even worse than i imagined
jagged pier
it literally stops you from pressing ignore pain
what u mean u choose between dead globals or an absrob shield
jagged pier
this is even worse than i imagined
i did try and say
violet ginkgo
dead globals ftw!
strong forum
you choose between dying or getting an absorb shield which will also cause you to die
its not even living
pressing ignore pain will kill you
because well, you are afk for up to 3 globals
violet ginkgo
nome is that talking about colossus or thane? if thane then... we are doomed because if thane which notably have more rage than colossus can't press IP then.... colossus gonna be worse.
strong forum
both
violet ginkgo
yeah we are doomed then
strong forum
colossus plays better on ST
than thane
funnily enough
does the tierset even work
the 4pc?
i have 80% crti chance with tier up
but i aint critting?
storm stone
So this may be a dumb question, but how do you guys flow your cooldowns between large pulls? As I’m getting more comfortable with the class I’m starting to pull a lot bigger and I’m noticing I start to run out of cooldowns after 1-2 large pulls. Should I swap over to the 2 shield wall talent instead of the shield wall CDR talent? Or do I need to hunt a second ranking trinket down
storm stone
you should have SW available twice per pull
How so?
strong forum
pressing shield slam and using rage lowers its CD significantly
for me its ~40-50 sec CD
storm stone
I am shield slamming so hard you’d think my cow achieved buddhahood and I still feel like I run out of mit semi frequently
strong forum
your mit is shield block
storm stone
Idk if I’m just not flowing my pulls properly or what
strong forum
got some logs?
storm stone
Not atm but I can run some dungeons on Saturday and get back to you w/ em
Just contextualize what you see with me playing the class for less than a week lol
strong forum
playing double SW wont mean you get twice as many SWs
imp wall you play to get more SWs
double SW just means you can double up in a dangerous pull back to back
storm stone
Yeah I figure it probably has to do with either my pull flow
strong forum
its 1000000% rotational mistakes
storm stone
Or I’m not getting enough IP in for the avatar reset
strong forum
especially if you only play for less than a week 😉
storm stone
Probably lol
Pwarr plays very differently than blood dk. My group survival is actually relevant on this class lmao
storm stone
Well I’m not at that point yet then.
storm stone
With blood dk I can solo the dungeon and everyone else is along for the ride
Brew is too healer dependant
storm stone
Pwar seems to be in the middle
strong forum
if you lose health, you made a mistake or something went wrong
whenever i lose health, i wonder why
but a good pwar doesnt lose HP
storm stone
I’ve definitely noticed that
strong forum
only when you know you do from X mechanic
storm stone
My damage intake is much slower and more manageable on pwar if I’m maintaining block and IP
Whenever casts go off I can feel it on my healthbar
If I don’t have reflect up
strong forum
if a cast is about to go off, thats when you spell reflect and SW
or you imp victory immediately
90% of casts arent on you though
soooo
most tank casts you have answers for
and completely vibe in keys
dark barn
Hot take: a lot of warrior tier sets are animes mechas and i cant unsee this
storm stone
Yeah I have the excel sheet for reflect pulled up on my other monitor half my keys
cerulean tusk
Hot take: a lot of warrior tier sets are animes mechas and i cant unsee this
I see it and like it
humble stream
Hello, can we find the new builds here (for testing on the PRT)?
jagged pier
what new builds
they basically the exact same
except u get both caps stones of spear or roar depend which on u choose
dark barn
New build: Choose all talents that generate rage and pray for jesus
jagged pier
there arent any
dark barn
Yeah. Pray more. We desperately need a filler like "heroic strike: spend a gcd and generate like 10 rage"
cunning oriole
Scaling issues on the ptr aside, is prot playing as bad as I feared? Rage starved, choosing survival over dmg? Or, meh?
strong forum
its worse
dark barn
Right now we have a lot of downtime because devastator just dont proc. No rage to spend with revenge neither
cunning oriole
Fu$%. Not good. I hate playing pally.
strong forum
they changed nothing with devastator
dark barn
We lost like a lot of APM
strong forum
they changed everything BUT devastator xd
dark barn
Slowrarrior
strong forum
devastator was always 20%, but the active buttons are now also 20% instead of 30%
cunning oriole
Slowrarrior
Nooo....this is literally the best thing about prot tanking
strong forum
which means it takes on average 4 globals to get an SS reset
instead of ykno, 2-3
sometimes you dont get SS resets at all
jagged pier
no no nome your supposed to have a choice now betwenn pressing IP or revenge. not bing able to press IP would go against what blizz said they were doing to the spec
dark barn
devastator was always 20%, but the active buttons are now also 20% instead of 30...
Thanks. I did a confusion
cunning oriole
which means it takes on average 4 globals to get an SS reset
jfc
strong forum
ive literally had often times 2-3 gcds of nothing to press
WHILST DOING OPTIMAL ROTATION
you literally cannot afford to press ignore pain
cuz you need to spam revenge for SS resets
(you dont get SS resets)
dark barn
Thats exactly what i feel. Watching the game with nothing to press. Will install a chess addon to spend my time between rotation
strong forum
with the 30% chance it takes 3 gcds to get a 90% chance on a reset, soo now they fucked it up that it takes 5 GCDs for the 100%
cunning oriole
and in true blizz fashion, it will take them 2 patches to even lift a finger for a fix
cunning oriole
The real question...are you guys gonna keep tanking in S2? or main something else?
jagged pier
first time since vanilla im consisdering it
bold mirage
there is still time for them to look at the data from the ptr and revert some changes but it really sucks that everytime I feel like prot war is in a good spot they hit it with a sledgehammer
dark barn
Thinking about reroll to monk (will never follow the meta)
strong forum
depending how things go i might unsub ye
or well, depends how fun arms is
if its ass aswell then yeah cya
brittle owl
or just plain unsubbing
welcome to the light bröthër
dark barn
I love how they can always make things worse. Season 1 already was wonderful
dark barn
If they changed nothing the class would still be middle of the pack and thats okay
This change is crap
cunning oriole
welcome to the light bröthër
I just can't man. Got a prot pally raiding, did heroic last night...Queen was just munching my ass with liquefy, even with all the heals (can't bubble due to taunt). Pally is just a playstyle I can't get behind. Plus is slow as old people fu$&. I NEED them to fix this shit.
brittle owl
pally being slow hmmm
and sure u can bubble
remember paladin does not have support buttons
they're for u 😎
cunning oriole
lol I feel ya, I was telling the other prot pally in the raid the same thing
cunning oriole
but if you bubble during feast when the other tank just taunted, you're fooked
dark barn
You can remove the taunt talent
sweet summit
You can remove the taunt talent
impossible
cunning oriole
You can play monk if you want a smooth raid experience
I may try BM monk...but man, I really want my prot war to be ok
dark barn
We all want my good fella
cunning oriole
I'm gonna stick it out. If I have to change to keep tanking...I'll cross that bridge then. Kickin and screaming.
jagged pier
brah theres no kicking and screaming this just doesnt play like prot warrior
violet ginkgo
what does it play like then?
jagged pier
some so bad its new
violet ginkgo
whole new level of bad? damn...
violet ginkgo
jagged pier
thats obviously a subjective personal thing
shut summit
have unironically started gearing bdk for raid in case w.e shit is coming isn't good enough, cba if spec ain't fun
pallid quiver
That's when you know we're really in the pits
at least you'd have a BDK for the BDK mandatory raids then, too 🙂
bold mirage
I hope when Sense says things like this it sets off alarms at Blizz but I know it doesn't....
jagged pier
and it looks like there at least some bosses
dark barn
I feel like blizzard will not revert the changes until like months have passed. They left prot paladin in the gutter for a very long time. They will not speed revert their mistakes for surr
kind urchin
have unironically started gearing bdk for raid in case w.e shit is coming isn't ...
I never thought I'd see the day where I saw you post something about playing another class. I guess we all have our limits.
violet ginkgo
Well you know it's something when blizz sort of make Sense to play another class.
kind urchin
To be clear this will pass my limit too.
thin mesa
is this a bad time to ask if this a good tank spec to learn tanking on
kind urchin
Right now on live it's great.
thin mesa
okay. so as a starter tank is it pretty good and easy to learn
kind urchin
In fact if you want to learn I would recommend doing it right now. Before the patch comes out so you can experience in the role. That way if you have to reroll due to these changes you can only have to worry about the class you're playing instead of learning the role as well.
spiral jetty
warrior with shit rage gen is always anti-fun but i feel like they keep looping back to this every few years for whatever reason
brave marlin
Is there a way, to transmog have a 2 handed weapon and a shield?
Like the paladin in the creation screen. I feel that look-wise, all the one handed maces/hammers are quite small
like this guy
brave marlin
oof... But is his hammer a 1 handed mace? i just went through them all, and i couldn't find it
must have missed it then
oh, and it's only for paladins ofc
kind urchin
Pretty sure that's holy artifact weapon from Legion.
shut summit
I never thought I'd see the day where I saw you post something about playing ano...
the changes that are coming would have to be pretty lackluster for it to actually happen but better to be prepared 
urban bane
small quail
@cunning oriole going to hop on my in case of emergency prot paladin.
I’m just tired boss. It’s bad enough how little utility warriors offer to groups. But now I don’t even get healers a sense of security with being a beefcake
Give
dark barn
maybe its time to reroll bdk guys
kind urchin
Reroll? Nah, I'll just save some money.
cunning oriole
<@377980699669692417> going to hop on my in case of emergency prot paladin.
I...
Blizz: "We think Protection Warrior is in a good place right now..."
fair beacon
what are the best citrine atm? I am going with STORMBRINGER, but seeing other tanks do so much with their THUNDERLORD this week?
round pendant
cerulean tusk
I just presume we not gotten any information on fixing the clunk yet - stay strong peeps, change will come and make everything alright
frigid valley
skarmorak shard any good for us? idk how we value mastery for dmg output compared to other tanks
jagged pier
One of our best trinkets
cerulean tusk
Ye, it good - lines up perfectly with roar, and the passive mastery is just decent value
frigid valley
ah sweet, just had time before reset to do one weekly key so managed to slap a myth track one in that slot
just gotta grab some passive one cuz i hate double on use
jagged pier
Ara sac
frigid valley
y ik, i just hate that first area with a passion as warrior. so stressful to grab shit compared to my monk dk and dh
errant oriole
hey that immovable object talent might be a bug with the proc interaction
jolly venture
What's the best trinket I can get from siren Isle?
jagged pier
jolly venture
Me neither
cerulean tusk
Just buy two random ones from the vendor that sounds alright
Shouldnt be much of a diff either way
cerulean tusk
<:shruge:1111204342830223421>
Why Col feel so bad in 15 >:( why
fix it
Stupid IP just wont let me stack it up
violet ginkgo
Why Col feel so bad in 15 >:( why
fix it
broke it more likely with upcoming nerf 
cerulean tusk
I already feel starved AF - I dont even want to know how it will be after PTR
Its fine in lower content tho, where you can easily just overcharge IP
jolly venture
Shouldnt be much of a diff either way
Heard. Got one that does shadow damage and one that does nature dmg. I didn't see one that seemed directly beneficial for tanking
I might switch to fury anyway. I just wanted quick groups for levels
chilly brook
no, that's this one?
very clearly different models lol
cerulean tusk
The nature dam one is neato for snapthreat at least
jolly venture
I don't know if I can handle the stress of tanking m+
cerulean tusk
It is super chill once you get used to it
Just learn to think this: If they pull it, they better come to me
And use that kind of attitude to just shrug off the shit they try to stick on you
Makes it a lot more enjoyable
jagged pier
He is for sure crit haste
jolly venture
It is super chill once you get used to it
Yeah I just got a learn the routed I guess. Haven't done any in this xpac yet. Last time I played was BfA
cerulean tusk
When you get started, just press W and pull what you want - 10/10 strat, wont fail you before prob 12+ area
The DPS will scream and wail at first, then fall silent when the timer is met either way
cerulean tusk
Eeeeee! That aint no crab!
frosty holly
It's coconut-crab... ish? 😄
mighty valley
I already feel starved AF - I dont even want to know how it will be after PTR
Live colossus has everything prot had last expansion, thane is just kinda dumb
drowsy narwhal
reading the backlog, people are seriously considering to switch 😦
which tank plays the closest to prot warrior (except for all the other warrior classes and builds)
cerulean tusk
I think pwarrior is pretty unique in how it plays. It is the only true mitigation tank. So there really isnt a replacement for its playstyle
waxen frigate
which tank plays the closest to prot warrior (except for all the other warrior c...
Bear probably?
cerulean tusk
only similarity I see, is a ragebar. Bear to me just is a totally different thing. Playing around incarn, and in general just feeling... spoungie. Warrior is a brick, a brick that I throw at the problem
Bear is more a big punching bag that can take it, with button presses that feel off
waxen frigate
Both of them are all about up front mitigation
Pally also bears some similarity due to sotr but it feels very different
cerulean tusk
Ye, I get what you mean. I just dont see or feel it being the same as pwarr, or even in the same league
Warrior is a brick, bear a spounge - is how I would put it
Pala a tinfoil can
drowsy narwhal
that sucks, maybe i just go dps warrior then
cerulean tusk
BrM is the one tank I cant speak of, as I dont play it at all
cyan bronze
it’s a stretch
cerulean tusk
From what I see tho - they dont have warrior levels of mitigation
cyan bronze
to say the least
cerulean tusk
They aint no brick
cyan bronze
nah they don’t
but I just meant they always have their main active up
& it’s not stackable
but
they’re also vastly different
and they work well in melee comps ig
cerulean tusk
Warrior: Brick
Bear: Spounge
Pala: Tinfoil
Monk: Bannana peel
BDK: Leaking bucket of water
VDH: Paperplane
If you like bricks, warrior is the only place to go
cyan bronze
vdh has a lot more mit than people say fwiw
cyan bronze
I mean
cerulean tusk
Warrior built like a brick flex
cyan bronze
jumping into a pack on vdh is effectively the same as going into pack without sb
a lot of vdh’s mit is very rampy
cerulean tusk
Sure, but I will put my money on the warrior 10/10 times to survive that
over the DH
drowsy narwhal
vdh has a lot more mit than people say fwiw
i always play strength builds on rpgs, fully heavy armor, shield and sword, like a full on defensive tank who is a brick and can take anything, and prot warrior feels like that
cyan bronze
Idk if comparing tanks at their survivability at their worst mistakes is a good point
Tbh
cerulean tusk
Well, Tanbur - just dont worry too much about it
Sure it will feel bad
but warrior wont be broken beyond help
drowsy narwhal
true, yeah, it can be always worse 😄
cerulean tusk
We just will be that tad worse for top end 0.1% content
you and me? we will be fine
and feel worse off
cyan bronze
I really doubt warrior will not get more changes
cerulean tusk
What can they do, but revert the changes tho
jagged pier
oh there might be changes
cerulean tusk
Stronger IP wont make it feel any better
jagged pier
will it fix the problem?
imma go with no
cerulean tusk
"Block chance baseline increased by 10%"
drowsy narwhal
i think we are sitting in our echo chambers, i dont think wow will notice how it makes the majority of us feel miserable
jagged pier
well they wont if u complain in here
u need to go on ptr and give feedback in the feedback thing
jagged pier
and on the forums
jagged pier
the devs dont care about in here
cyan bronze
But bad still
cerulean tusk
Sure they care - they come here to laugh as we release an ocean of salt
cyan bronze
the devs dont care about in here
This is upsetting to me as a vdh main
I remember having conversations with realz during the vdh rework
cyan bronze
Yeah they try to
Because of people in class discords
And poor/not hyper moderation
sharp gale
Ofc they will get harassed or insulted
cerulean tusk
Meh, I see skyhold more like an echochamber of the more 'trihard' warriors
cyan bronze
Even one “I hope xyz dev gets fired” is probably really offputting
cerulean tusk
Well, devs should never say "I am a dev"
that is for sure
but they can get an easy pulse check of things
If we aint dooming, then you know it is good. If we dooming it can be for a good reason or something silly
cyan bronze
Realz being in the dh class discord was a positive thing for dh
I maintain that
But people treated him like fucking shit.
sharp gale
They just have to play their own ptr to have a pulse that it’s bad
drowsy narwhal
they dont need to out themselves, but they need to mingle with the playerbase of those classes in question, to experience how the base feels
jagged pier
they technically shouldnt be there, because it all started with mop lock and bliz kinda got a bit madge by that
cyan bronze
they technically shouldnt be there, because it all started with mop lock and bli...
Lore?
jagged pier
like the lock dev went to the top locks and asked how it should be made
then they got affi
cerulean tusk
They prob are, Tanbur. but hopefully, they take long breaks
jagged pier
which was fucking busted
cerulean tusk
Cause we are toxic over time for sure
jagged pier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0vqF13mKFQ u got this
cyan bronze
like the lock dev went to the top locks and asked how it should be made
Yeah
That’s a case of bad mods
IMO
jagged pier
nah the skill ceiling was way too high
cyan bronze
We had atrayen who I swear to god wanted dh to be bad when he talked to realz
So it balanced out
jagged pier
like low players couldnt play it and top players fucking destroyed on it
so kinda like SLs S4 for us
cerulean tusk
I dont remember S4 was anything special?
jagged pier
banner necro
jagged pier
average prot warrior couldnt play it
cerulean tusk
... grumble grumble average prot warrior cant keep shieldblock up
jagged pier
they gunna struggle even more next patch
cyan bronze
average prot warrior couldnt play it
Idk I think that it’s not awful when things like that exist
But
I’m in the minority im aware
cerulean tusk
Well, think even the devs can see that the change is universally disliked
pallid quiver
I think it's bad for the skill floor to be high
I think it's fine for a high skill ceiling
cerulean tusk
Some skillfloor is nice, for skill expression. It just cant be too impactful
pallid quiver
But if the skill floor is too high, it gatekeeps people who want to play for flavor but aren't that hard into learning
cyan bronze
But if the skill floor is too high, it gatekeeps people who want to play for fla...
Again, in the minority, I don’t mind this
cerulean tusk
Just need to make so most players are basically up there with the top, but the top can edge out a bit to make them feel it was worth
Bottom can stay where they are
:dlol:
cyan bronze
However the main issue with that kind of thing is
In games that it’s like that
There’s kinda just classes meant for low content
That aren’t at all viable in high end content, because all the good classes/whatever are very high skill classes that outperform when played at max performance compared to a low skill class
cerulean tusk
That is a class vs class issue, not a balance philosophy between the playermass of a single spec
If that happens, they should simply lift up the struggling specs.
Not that they will
But hey
cyan bronze
If that happens, they should simply lift up the struggling specs.
Not fully
When there’s enough of a skill disparity between classes (not found anywhere in wow atm, rly) if a very simple class is as strong as a very complex class
there’s no reason to play the latter
it happens alot in league
cerulean tusk
Then the only important question is: Are players having fun playing the more complex one
That is the only thing that matters
If it is fun, complexity of it doesnt matter
cyan bronze
You forget people optimize the fun completely out of games
cerulean tusk
Ya talking to mr 2hand prot warrior
I am far above these puny opinions
Other than when it comes to Odys
Odyns should be strong and numerically viable
:)
Mainly because big number is fun, tho
cyan bronze
Fortunately, to my knowledge, wow takes class complexity and difficulty not at all into the equation when balancing
cerulean tusk
I dont mind if a BM hunter outplays an Arcane mage on the meters. I dont think Arcane should be better because "more complex", it should be about niche
cyan bronze
I agree, it generally works well for wow
drowsy narwhal
Fortunately, to my knowledge, wow takes class complexity and difficulty not at a...
i think that is a wrong approach, from my (biased) research it is clear that playing healer or tank is more difficult to play than a dps, so those should be fairly compensated with a payoff
otherwise you have this situation where nobody wants to play those classes when you can play dps
pallid quiver
tanks on a pure spec level are generally easier than most DPS
cerulean tusk
That is a dangerous statement tho, as tanks are generally a lot more forgiving rotationally than DPS when it comes to output
So there are different aspects to think about
pallid quiver
heck, in raid, it's also the easiest role on average
cerulean tusk
Tank = youtube, food and half an eye on the DBM bar
violet ginkgo
I am curious what will happen on tank shortage next season, this season ppl said is pretty bad, next season gonna be worse I think. Dungeon not fun and a lot of nerf?
cerulean tusk
the raid experience of prog
drowsy narwhal
i posted it yesterday, but according to zorthas who is the nr.1 dps, he says that dps is very easy and tank probably the hardest role
cerulean tusk
Hm... My guess it will get a bit worse, for sure - especially if tanks keep getting shohorned into "that isnt meta, so bad"
cyan bronze
i think that is a wrong approach, from my (biased) research it is clear that pla...
This is a weird statement
cerulean tusk
Guess he means generic DPS, that doesn't work in the team as a moving part - but just tagged on
drowsy narwhal
cyan bronze
It vaguely reads like you think tanks and healers should do more damage than dps because they are perceived to be more difficult
drowsy narwhal
not necessarily do more damage, but they should have a payoff of some sorts
cyan bronze
There is a pay off currently
cerulean tusk
What kind?
cyan bronze
My statement was also completely unrelated to this
I was saying blizzard doesn’t tune bm to be lower than arcane because it’s easier
cerulean tusk
Nor should they, I said
cyan bronze
They tune it to be somewhere close relative to other DPS, disregarding complexity ftmp
If you think one role should be tuned higher, because it is more difficult, it’s a bit weird
cerulean tusk
Especially when you discuss cross role difficulty
drowsy narwhal
why do we have tank and healer shortages?
cyan bronze
why do we have tank and healer shortages?
It’s an unfun role to play for most people
cerulean tusk
For fun, is my argument. You tank if you enjoy to tank. If tanking isnt enjoyable, it isnt because DPS do more DPS than the tank - as an example
cerulean tusk
Solution is not making tank a DPS, to attract DPS players, as they wont play like tanks
cyan bronze
It still wouldn’t be fun for those people
It’s just that dps wouldn’t have fun
There is something to be said for adjusting role to role responsibilities
drowsy narwhal
yeah, true, i didnt say they should do more dps, but perhaps more is the solution? like you actually make a difference, too
cyan bronze
We saw this with things like the removal of explosive
cyan bronze
yeah, true, i didnt say they should do more dps, but perhaps more is the solutio...
This wouldn’t draw in more tank players tho
Ppl don’t not play tank because of the lack of dps
drowsy narwhal
true, true
cyan bronze
They play tank because they often fundamentally don’t want mobs hitting them in the face
drowsy narwhal
thats why i also said it should have a payoff other than dps
cyan bronze
thats why i also said it should have a payoff other than dps
There is
It’s why I started tanking
drowsy narwhal
and what?
cyan bronze
You get into groups significantly faster
drowsy narwhal
😄
cyan bronze
Especially off meta dps vs off meta tank
& rotational difficulty of tanks is much less
So there is a notable pay off
drowsy narwhal
so you are saying, circumventing the queue bottleneck is the payoff of our classes?
cyan bronze
Yes, one of
drowsy narwhal
thats so fun!
drowsy narwhal
i ve never heard of anybody being excited about playing a role because they can queue quicker with it
cerulean tusk
Payoff is that you get to benefit from the responsebilites of the tank. Sure, you are expected to lead and plan. But you also are the one doing this.
Your word is law, as they expect it to be.
The more you enjoy the social aspects that has been laid into the role, the more fun you will have
Well, one payoff of many within these aspects
cyan bronze
i ve never heard of anybody being excited about playing a role because they can ...
You’ve never heard of half the people playing tank?
What
cyan bronze
No?
I personally started tanking because havoc queues were boringly long in dfs2
And I am in joy
drowsy narwhal
like if you need 2 hours to travel to the city with a car cause of traffic, you will ofc take the bus full of with smelly people
its not a solution to the traffic
cyan bronze
public transport is a solution to traffic
cerulean tusk
So your solution is to drown all the stinky ppl?
drowsy narwhal
😄
i m just saying, that cause of a bottleneck forced into a role is not really your own made decision
its basically forced upon you
cerulean tusk
So blizzard grabs the player by the neck, forcing their face unto the keyboard?
It is a game they can walk away at anytime, if they dont have fun
drowsy narwhal
ofc not, but like as diva says, he rathers plays tank than waiting for 45 minutes, thats so sad
drowsy narwhal
did he though? when you are offered 2 plates wiith one of being a poison
is it really your own decision taking the other one?
cerulean tusk
Thing is, he can simply walk away
drowsy narwhal
thats always a given, but thats besides the point
cerulean tusk
That is the point tho, fun is the deciding factor. Not the "balance" between the roles
it is not a DPS vs tank problem
it is Tank not being fun to play problem
drowsy narwhal
its not, but its a shortage problem which needs to be addressed
cerulean tusk
It is a problem old as time, ppl dont find tanking to be fun in general
ppl want to blast
Nothing blizz can do about that
drowsy narwhal
so you think creatively you cannot engine a way to make healing or tanking as fun as dps then?
so categorically not possible?
mighty valley
It’s just stressful to have the responsibility of leading
cerulean tusk
Trick is as I say: Aint a problem before there is a problem, and only if I decide there is one.
mighty valley
That’s the main functional difference between tanking and dps
cerulean tusk
There is a huge mentality diff between the two, for sure
But ya cant expect to be the tank and not to lead - as that is what tanks do by design of being the frontline
drowsy narwhal
would you say that it is being more stressful is actually a way of saying it is harder to play (at least mentally)?
cerulean tusk
Depends, a tank can be very chill mental if you learn to just dont care about randos opinions
You got all the flex and choice in the world
drowsy narwhal
but he just said it is more stressful
cerulean tusk
the DPS is biting their fingers in terror
They need tanks more than the group need the DPS
Why you see the rise of tank divas in low guilds and so on
mighty valley
It’s not really mechanically difficult, tanks are generally simpler, it’s just scary to a lot of people to be driving the bus (even if they’d never admit it)
cerulean tusk
Basicially royalty the role, yet - in a PuG world, the DPS will lash out at you in their frustration of being powerless
So have strong mental, and know the facts
ya wont be stressed
Worst case - the DPS will cost you the time it takes to get into a new group
you cost them hours
drowsy narwhal
but people hate stress, they hate stressful jobs, if tanking feels stressful to them, then it means most people will not play it, as we can already see
so what is the payoff of playing roles which induce so much stress?
cerulean tusk
You wont be stressed if you change your mental, is my point
drowsy narwhal
that is the question
cerulean tusk
Answer is, dont be weak mental
cyan bronze
ofc not, but like as diva says, he rathers plays tank than waiting for 45 minute...
I like playing tank
cerulean tusk
and you wont be stressed
jagged pier
so bliz decides to make tanking more stressful but nerfing one of the classes
mighty valley
The payoff is the group doesn’t accomplish anything without you lol
drowsy narwhal
"dont be weak mentally" or "get gud" aint really answering the question
cerulean tusk
It is tho
mighty valley
Also some people like the fantasy of being the unkillable leader
cyan bronze
What do you want the pay off to be
cerulean tusk
If problem is mental stress, walk away or be stronger
mighty valley
What do you want them to do, give tanks cash payments
cyan bronze
For me
Being able to play almost immediately whenever I want
Makes tanking alot funner
Than playing dps and waiting
cerulean tusk
You find the PuGs managing to tear down your menal, tho. Diva?
Ya get stressed from their angry little voices? :v
mighty valley
I do think they can try and shave off some of the more stressful parts of tanking, like the tanks that have an easy time pulling are usually more popular
And it sucks when threat actually matters
drowsy narwhal
i m not sure what to do either, also if i had a solution, it would be like doing my own propaganda with my own agenda, i m just saying that the simple payoff isnt just there, so you need to compensate for that.
cerulean tusk
Payoff is the Leadership role. The time saved. The ability to chose.
You decide how the game plays out and ends to a large part.
drowsy narwhal
how is having more responsibility and stress a payoff?
mighty valley
some people like being in charge
cerulean tusk
Responsebility is a good thing - stress I answered
drowsy narwhal
some people like being in charge
but most not, hence the shortage
cerulean tusk
Your fate is in your hands, is a good thing and should reduce your stress levels
Some cant handle having their hands around others, that is just a mental thing
Ignore the negative aspects and focus more on the positives
mighty valley
yeah I dunno, this is part of why some games move away from the holy trinity paradigm
frosty holly
I tank 99% of my keys. Can't say i've ever thought of myself as the leader. Other than the fact pulls are done by me.
mighty valley
but it has its pros too
cerulean tusk
I tank 99% of my keys. Can't say i've ever thought of myself as the leader. Othe...
Well, hopefully noone sees themselves like some world leader
But you get a lot of influence as a tank, you can do the final call on most things
mighty valley
you’re kind of literally leading lol, you’re the first person in
cerulean tusk
That is power given, as they expect you to lead them to succes
frosty holly
I shall begin my reign in next pug key
"My word is law peasants, if thou pull it you shall tank it"
cerulean tusk
Do it
That mental will help you, if you need the shift - just dont go too far, ok?
drowsy narwhal
even if what you say was true, that the payoff is leading, which is just not true, because it is more stress and responsibility, which most people try to avoid, since they want to chill, but lets say this point stands. what about healers then? they do it cause they like the submissive role or what? lol whats their payoff then?
mighty valley
if the entire game was chill all the time, nothing would actually feel rewarding
this is why game design is hard lol
cerulean tusk
It is only stress, as mentioned, because you percieve it to be. Or you just cant handle it. That is all a mental and very person to person thing.
I have 0 stress being that "leader"
mighty valley
stress and friction are necessary even if vocal players will complain about them all the time
cerulean tusk
My highest stress point is feeling I didnt do well enough of a job. That is solved by working on myself each time. Knowing I did my best at the time, that I will do better. Every key I grow stronger.
Then the keys are just chill gameplay and execution of the work I already put in - very calm
Being a tank, I get to do that. While as DPS, I would have to play around that said plan
drowsy narwhal
you are just focusing too much on your own experience, it works for you, and tbh also works for me, i also like our role
but most people dont, so we have to address that
its like masochism in sorts of ways 😄
cerulean tusk
Most players dont fit into the mold of tank, on the merits of what it becomes by the function of the role.
Only solution would be to remove the tank role - to please the large masses of loud voices with no experience trying
drowsy narwhal
but we also have a shortage of healers, so basically 2 of 3 roles are not popular by miles, so it is not just a "tank" problem
cerulean tusk
It looks a lot scarier than it is, the stress disapears once your mental is there
drowsy narwhal
clearly sth is wrong if just one role is being dominantly popular
cerulean tusk
Sure, healer is very much the same thing, but - that is more a balance issue
Healers want to feel like they do something, yet they dont want to fight ping-pong health bars
So as every class is basically immortal, the game spikes them down and fast. So healers gotta handle the planning of their gameplan around the team
It is kinda the same as tanks in that aspect, you just got to accept you can only affect things this much. At a certain point, just ignore the angry wails of ppl standing in fire
If you dont stand in green, ya dont get my heals.
frosty holly
Why i never enjoyed healing pugs. So many people just do not give a single feck
cerulean tusk
You can for sure just ignore ppl that fail. You get to go again, they dont
frosty holly
Just take avoidable damage for no good reason
cerulean tusk
Standard is myself and the tank still alive, rest on the floor. PuGs screaming about healer being weak, as we twoman the rest of the boss - making them go very quiet
:v
always satisfying
"oh, problem was me?"
frosty holly
Actually had that today. Last boss mist of all bosses. Was helping a friend on his lowish healer 600 or something. All 3 DPS died to standing on the swirlies me and healer friend took boss from 23% xD
frosty holly
I swear they all keyboard turned. Watching them try and run from the swirlies landing
cerulean tusk
Aint no saving some, just be glad they will improve
frosty holly
One can hope they do. So next group they join has it easier
cyan bronze
Honestly i think it’s great prot warrior is getting taken out back
Maybe we can get the glad treatment
willow moss
any news from PTR?
cerulean tusk
No news, only sad tiding and lots of copium
Changes will be reverted, course corrected for the better
Hoy, nome, while I got you there
strong forum
cerulean tusk
Col, how ya feel rage going on live?
I feel lowkey starved as I went higher
Cant stack the IP for free, prob a lot of it
:v
strong forum
Colossus rage management works out fine in raid, but the higher you go in keys the less you can spam revenge blindly and need to use IP more, resulting in less revenges
This will just be emphasised next patch
cerulean tusk
Ye. It slowed way down - and I was just... "this no zug zug... me sad"
strong forum
From what I know, they're set on those changes
Obv tierset and so on will see tweaking but at this current state, we need an entire rework
cerulean tusk
Well, I am sure they will buff us some other way to make up for it
Maybe we get 50% baseline haste
who knows
strong forum
Idk how they can buff us without giving us rage back that would make it fun
cerulean tusk
Neither can I, as the loop was what made warrior especially fun
will be hard to have fun without it
But - will give them a shot
maybe they know something we dont
frozen berry
Is the assumption that we don’t need as much rage because they’re buffing the value of IP? That just makes us tankier though, and damage is hugely effected
strong forum
I think it's moreso that we know stuff that they don't
strong forum
Is the assumption that we don’t need as much rage because they’re buffing the va...
No
We do get weaker defensively cuz guess what kills a prot warrior and what I mentioned atleast 2x in the guide
It's having to wait for shield slam resets
Not being able to shield slam, that's what kills you cuz it stops your whole rage flow
And guess what this patch does
frozen berry
For block uptime as well
strong forum
Has nothing to do with block uptime, but our rage gen will be almost cut in half
Which is
NOT A GOOD THING
frozen berry
I plugged the changes into chatgpt to ask it what it thought, said it was between a 5-15% nerf or something lol
strong forum
Shield slam reset chance changed from 2-3gcd avg to 4-5gcd average
strong forum
I plugged the changes into chatgpt to ask it what it thought, said it was betwee...
My napkin math says 15-20%
🙂
That's not counting tierset being shit
cerulean tusk
I feared a tad more, from the broken loop, but hey
I am sure we get a 30% aura buff then
strong forum
30% aura buff would just mean to break even