brøh
#protection
cerulean tusk
chilly brook
DH is just next on the list
sharp gale
Bruh
chilly brook
Although part of me wants to wait until I get 636 in all slots on one of my toons before I put too much effort into this
sharp gale
The only tank option for me is druid (im looking for a range dps main with no infinite queue in m+)
chilly brook
Even if I wanna dps in keys
I feel like I’m just cornered into tanking
All the m+ tanks suck ass
cerulean tusk
That is 99% true
sharp gale
I feel you, I filled my vault yesterday 8 dungeons I do, the only 2 with issues was when I dps
chilly brook
At least I pull shit and don’t die while doing it
cerulean tusk
You know the first corridor pull in SV, where ppl always die?
I sleep when I pull that - 0 danger
chilly brook
Oh I should do heroic raid on my dh today or something
cerulean tusk
No clue how ppl just run in and flop, over and over
chilly brook
No clue how ppl just run in and flop, over and over
Idk I did it at 615 on my warrior in a 12 and it was comfy af
Granted a bit scarier on dh but I’m also not exactly a great dh
But still fine with 36 seconds of meta
errant oriole
merry christmas everyone!
pallid quiver
At least I pull shit and don’t die while doing it
holy shit my guy, it's so rough
cerulean tusk
God Jul, Gotklap 
tribal wharf
some of those classic wow HC moments videos look super tramatizing lol
sharp gale
How traumatizing ?
weak bronze
Don’t worry Blizz will kill prot and then 4 weeks give shield slam a 5% aura buff
neon fossil
The legendary Skipper Citrine - doesnt seem to be pulling decent numbers in M+.
seems to be doing better.
cerulean tusk
Seems to do a lot more dam than thundering - just looking at that breakdown
neon fossil
Seems to do a lot more dam than thundering - just looking at that breakdown
I dont have thundering equipped. Thats teh effect from the Legendary citrine
neon fossil
ahh yea, i didnt think about that.
cerulean tusk
cerulean tusk
I have no clue, I use raw stats gems - for big stable shieldblock. But I presume it grants you the raw stats at 150% value for a few sec, prob like 6 to 8. Doesnt details tell you?
seems to be 16 sec
jagged gust
The legendary Skipper Citrine - doesnt seem to be pulling decent numbers in M+.
bro that's a single gem doing >2% of your overall damage
cerulean tusk
That is a big mastery proc tho, neato
neon fossil
bro that's a single gem doing >2% of your overall damage
I mean, its doing less. 1.4%
other gem i have socketed is doing 4-5%
overall dmg in m+
cerulean tusk
Well, direct dam ones will be lower
the ompf on AoE comes from stat procs
3600 mastery is a lot of mastery
neon fossil
But I do see where you're coming from now I see the uptimes of the gem
jagged gust
I have no idea where I got the 2% from lmao, I really need glasses bro
neon fossil
lol
cerulean tusk
If you want to just be tanky tho - just go full stats, be happy
neon fossil
Prot warrior... do we need to be any more tanky lol
cerulean tusk
Yep, the more tanky we are - the less the healer got to worry, the less panicy things get, the smoother the key goes
That is a lot of critblock being done
cerulean tusk
Depends on your goals, Crit is more dam and got some synergy mixed in
jagged gust
a lot of us are mastery heavy from going fury this tier lol
jagged gust
also surprisingly mastery winds up being just a smidge better this patch with the introduction of the new gem
neon fossil
also surprisingly mastery winds up being just a smidge better this patch with th...
hmm true
rigid yew
So what gems yall all running?
jagged gust
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kuBqDyCwnmgDei7tyskdRp
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6wVEi7cZybpCiy6wgtY1yP
All I can say is, based off quicksim results the gem is doing 1.2-1.3% overalls, and based off top gear it's a 14-32k DPS loss to swap out in ST/AOE
and my logs seem to hold true, haven't tested the other slots yet, though
mortal pecan
I seem to run into an issue with the sim, it maxes out on iterations after only a couple items, especially when including the new ring
jagged gust
Do you have all the options enabled for your gems?
always use and 4+ colours, otherwise the iterations go fucking wild
mortal pecan
Do you have all the options enabled for your gems?
Yes. I thought that's what we were supposed to do
Should I only click 1 for each type?
jagged gust
no you definitely are supposed to have it enabled
But yeah only 1 gem per colour if you're also testing it with gear, gems test each variation with each piece of gear, so you wind up quickly multiplying your iterations way too high if you let it have the choice
mortal pecan
Thanks @jagged gust
strong forum
I don't sim normal sockets
And for the circle there's only 6 diff gems to sim total
(the stat combo seems to be winning in every scenario for me)
cerulean tusk
You part of mastery gang?
warm apex
Is there any precedent of blizzard not going through with planned changes to a class? Or are the 11.1 changes inevitable.
rigid yew
imo they tend to release as is and then if there is significant outcry, they dial it back or change it up mid season after everyone has abandoned the class
mortal pecan
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/knGFESLthZmJwMvzJcjGCX
never seems to pick the stat gems for me, any idea why?
ionic nimbus
I don't sim normal sockets
Yeah stat gems seems to be pretty big for a lot of speccs
strong forum
weird how that works
that they release op ring but have all the numerical gems be shit
chilly brook
that they release op ring but have all the numerical gems be shit
Just buff it later 
strong forum
they already buffed the ring by 50% before releasing it
chilly brook
Just like they’ll do with Warrior next season about 3/4ths of the way through it
strong forum
xd
chilly brook
“Yeah we’ve noticed prot warrior has had unforeseen consequences to the changes we implemented at the start of 11.1 as a result we are…..”
pallid quiver
"NERFING it even harder, it's still playable. Prot Warriors no longer learn Shield Block."
chilly brook
rigid yew
“Yeah we’ve noticed prot warrior has had unforeseen consequences to the changes ...
"as a result we are nerfing Brewmaster even more. We just don't understand why anyone picks that class."
chilly brook
"as a result we are nerfing Brewmaster even more. We just don't understand why a...
Bro everyone dooms about brew
They’re fine
chilly brook
Like legit such a weird spec full of doomers
It’s in one of the best spots it’s been in ever for m+
Like sure everyone wants their spec to be better (and I understand that) but people act like brew is unplayable and broken when it’s not even close to being that
cyan bronze
Yeah but brew is so fun to doom about
jagged gust
Sometimes dooming as a meme is fun ig
strong forum
dw ill complain on the big page soon
chilly brook
dw ill complain on the big page soon
I have no faith that Blizz will listen
strong forum
when it comes to nerfs blizzard has been suprisingly well adjusted when it came to pwar in DF
surely they will adjust accordingly, cuz this nerf is 10000000% only cuz of Thane
cyan bronze
Revert the changes put ip on gcd again
strong forum
cuz colossus has nowhere NEAR the "spam IP to avoid rage cap" issue that Thane has
chilly brook
Yeah
strong forum
so that bluepost reasoning is a quite poorly informed thing to spout
chilly brook
Colossus catching huge strays
Like straight up wouldn’t touch it after these changes
strong forum
well
technically less of a nerf for colossus in aoe
but heavily for ST
whereas for thane its less of a ST nerf but bad for aoe
strong forum
no doubt about that
cyan bronze
Don’t even talk to me about that
chilly brook
I mean it’s doubly less incentivized in 11.1 specifically for colossus if the changes stick
chilly brook
Kinda sucks that we have execute as a legit button but struggle to find places to actually use it, almost wish it was just fury execute now
violet ginkgo
cuz colossus has nowhere NEAR the "spam IP to avoid rage cap" issue that Thane h...
We actually just need old heroic strike back so we can just IP when needed and dump excess rage to heroic strike but nope here is 30% damage nerf.
mighty valley
I don’t think blizzard actually believes it’d be good gameplay for the majority of tanks to have to make moment to moment dps vs survivability decisions
Or more of them would be baked into more tank specs
But regardless, the worst part of these changes is that they wouldn’t actually achieve the goal of making us make those decisions
kind urchin
Just take the decision away and go ahead and bake ignore pain into revenge. At least that way we wouldn't have to suffer as bad as we will with the massive nerfs we're about to get.
worldly jetty
i know it's super personal, but i've tanked a lot on druid over the years but never prot and it feels verrrrry different. coming in cold and no idea what to do, any recs for keybinds? my 1-6 and ` / ~ feel all out of whack
pallid quiver
Ignore Pain needs to be somewhere very spammable unless rage changes go through, Shield Slam needs to be somewhere spammable,
Thunder Clap should be easy to press, Revenge easy to press
Those are your main rotational buttons
First two are The most important because you press them a lot
worldly jetty
amazing thanks!
old juniper
i know it's super personal, but i've tanked a lot on druid over the years but ne...
When I switched from bear I put abilities that fill a similar role where I was used to having them.
Moonfire-Heroic Throw
Mangle-Shield Slam
Thrash-Thunderclap
Raze-Revenge
Ironfur-Ignore Pain
Frenzied Regen-Shield Block.
It’s not exact but got me pretty close with muscle memory.
worldly jetty
thank you! super helpful
lots of shorter cds here, i'm having a hard time thinking about what to prioritize
any eli5 vids out there one would recommend?
oak ivy
is it really worth wearing new ring if it drops me under haste req
jagged pier
Yes
oak ivy
🫡
flint tiger
anyone know if wings of shattered sorrow at 626 cloak > crafted cloak due to the equip effect?
equip: taking dmg > 25% of HP => 2449 avoidance and increase healing by 10% for 10 seconds, has 90sec CD
willow edge
i know it's super personal, but i've tanked a lot on druid over the years but ne...
Personally mine is impending victory 1 thunderclap 2 shield slam 3 revenge 4 ignore pain 5 shield block 6. Im sure others have their preferences.
fresh kernel
bros dooming aside, i primarily play colossus for prot
never thought i had too much rage or mashing IP
how do u think the changes will play out for colossus prot
kind glen
how do u think the changes will play out for colossus prot
Personally, execute not giving stacks of Colossal Might is pretty wack.
fresh kernel
well ya, but i'm mainly concerned with colossus prot rage generation in the new patch
because in comparison to thane, never felt like i got "too much rage"
silk steppe
you just logged back in from dc Oh no ur healer 25% health with all the aggro. what do?
violet ginkgo
because in comparison to thane, never felt like i got "too much rage"
Congratulations then your rage will be much fewer 
tardy abyss
anyone know if wings of shattered sorrow at 626 cloak > crafted cloak due to the...
No it is not better
rocky crest
Question to y'all.
In Dawnbreaker the mob Nightfall Shadowalker does Umbral rush.
Even when I have them all gathered, the mob still from time to time randomly targets someone and rushes to one shot him.
how the fuck can I prevent that when my stuns are on CD etc. They are not taking aggro, but I cant figure out why it randomly just swaps
violet ginkgo
How can you prevent that? Pray that your dpses know how to CC or pop defensives and save themselves.
rocky crest
I got spear stun war stomp shockwave, but when that shit is on cd on first pulls
I pray to god I have time to intervene the rushed target
but it's so cringe above 13 etc ppl go " omg shit tank losing aggro"
while you stand there " Wtf ? random charge after I charged in and TC'ed and got them. Cant stop dat
red tree
while you stand there " Wtf ? random charge after I charged in and TC'ed and got...
Give em a "lol k" they love that
tribal wharf
my thought on that is that blizzard should define internally spells that are infact combat openers for all 4 game play types
wizard fighter healer knight(tank)
and its like, the tank gets 500% aggro 5 seconds, using those openers as long as they entered combat with in 0.5 seconds of the other players or the tank attack first
so this way, if dumbass rogue or mage butt pulls something, its because they did it wrong
wheat canopy
When you guys tank high keys are you usually in defensive stance?
pallid quiver
You should aim to be in battle stance for any times you're not taking enough damage to warrant being outside of defensive stance.
With how much damage you'll take in larger pulls, this effectively means you're pretty much perma-def stance in real higher keys
The overall group damage gain you get from pulling bigger while in def stance is more than the 3% crit you get from battle
However, there's more than a few times on bosses where you can afford to sit in battle and only swap to def as needed (or even perma b stance, like first boss of siege. If you get murdered there, I don't even know how you got to the boss)
fleet flicker
What's the argument for vs against into the fray in m+?
wheat canopy
You should aim to be in battle stance for any times you're not taking enough dam...
Thanks for the tips 🙂
pallid quiver
What's the argument for vs against into the fray in m+?
There isn't a legitimate one without enough haste, as you'll have too big of SB gaps, making you fail at your goal of being a tank of not dying
With enough haste, it becomes a tradeoff for slightly more damage in exchange for having to actually manage SB again in some way, shape, or form
For the record, the breakpoint is somewhere around 20k rating (It's before any buffs, as a note, since you need to ensure SB stays up at any point)
cerulean tusk
Why use ITF with 20k haste, when you could use HR with 20k mastery 
cerulean tusk
Yep, just make sure to stay close enough that you are in the range of the effect, yet not in the cone
dull tulip
that's busted
cerulean tusk
It's ok, doesn't make or break us into meta 
dull tulip
cerulean tusk
Oh 13 range get so many bad tanks. No joke
All run in 1st pack and die, even in mist
They say nothing, release, and leave
dull tulip
i started doing my 13s not so long ago
and i haven't died once to a pack that wasn't a full wipe
neither to a boss
people are just bad
prot pallies get everything on a silver platter and still suck
like stonevault is a prot warrior dungeon and we still get outpicked by prot pallies
it sucks
cerulean tusk
Good thing when we tank, we get whispers after the key thanking us 
So that is neat
cerulean tusk
❤️
violet ginkgo
there is still good ppl like that? wow that is kind of surprising 100%
cerulean tusk
Aftercare whispers are very common in the push wall area, so 13-14 atm
No idea about higher or lower
Ppl do say tanks get no thanks, but that is a lie
urban bane
even tanking a smooth 10 usually gets some appreciation thrown my way
jagged pier
brittle owl
hasnt happened to me this season yet
that's cuz u suck
strong forum
pallid quiver
You normally only get told by mid-tier players who don't see better, Nome
play with worse people
Like I got a compliment for tanking the Doomwalker world boss earlier on my Pala alt
cyan bronze
there is still good ppl like that? wow that is kind of surprising 100%
I try to
Even if their kinda ass
If they did something really good I try to mention it in DMs
Spread positivity type shit
pallid quiver
If Nome at the wall, ya know Prot down bad
nome plays below the general push wall
he plays at the "cba just give me my weekly" zone
cerulean tusk
So Nome can't talk about Pwarr getting nerfed and feeling bad, as he not playing, as such cant know
pallid quiver
According to a lot of people who come in here, yes
cerulean tusk
I am now the selfproclaimed Warrior Prot lead from now on
I say: Pwarr be lookin' grim if changes go through
I just want to have fun, man
pallid quiver
You're not a real WoW player, then
You need to have an extremely overpowered class that has only one button so you can talk about your MASSIVE DICK DPS at all times
while still losing out on DPS to heals 15 ilvl below you
Because ego is the only reason you play this game
that's a real wow player
cerulean tusk
I am better than Nome 
Ego saved
pallid quiver
yeah just don't look at raid parses
cerulean tusk
That is my trick captain, I play with blinders
I look at myself and care about only that
cyan bronze
@pallid quiver do you play brewmaster
pallid quiver
I've touched every tank at some point or another.
except DH
cyan bronze
why not vdh
wicked pollen
@cyan bronze why ghost
cyan bronze
I didn’t did I
pallid quiver
I'm not at all a fan of their entire lore and feel
cyan bronze
I'm not at all a fan of their entire lore and feel
Fair
pallid quiver
I did end up levelling one to 70 to help Ghash get one of every spec to level 70 last xpac
cyan bronze
Vdh is the most satisfying to me
pallid quiver
still didn't like it
pallid quiver
So I made a second Warrior
cyan bronze
It’s definitely the most uninviting tank imo
pallid quiver
I used to like BDK, but current sound design makes them feel too... squishy
Everything just squirts
cyan bronze
I’ve played all tanks besides bdk
pallid quiver
like you're squeezing a shampoo tube or something
cyan bronze
Well that isn’t true
I’ve played all tanks and understand how they all play
I just refuse to play anything difficult on bdk after doing a few high df keys on it
Shit is so ass to play for extended periods I swear
I think it’s too punishing on the global to global and doesn’t have enough agency in keys to make up for it🤷♂️
urban bane
I have not enjoyed BDK since the Legion rework
spiral jetty
I used to like BDK, but current sound design makes them feel too... squishy
i understand this completely
and druids sound like gently ripping a sheet of paper
urban bane
IDK if it is ironfur or ironfur with thorns of iron but that sound effect is a bit much for how often you just send ironfur
cyan bronze
IDK if it is ironfur or ironfur with thorns of iron but that sound effect is a b...
LOL
urban bane
like a large block sliding across a bed of granite
spiral jetty
the sound design has gone way backward since like bfa i wanna say
pallid quiver
Nah, sound design is one of the most important things to me, especially for melee specs
cyan bronze
Nah, sound design is one of the most important things to me, especially for mele...
Yeah I guess
pallid quiver
It's one of the reason I do like Prot War so much
spiral jetty
i agree it makes a big difference and i don't think there's enough focus on it from the devs
pallid quiver
I actually didn't like it because it was too clunky sounding
There's a very hard pit where it needs to be satisfying, but not grinding
covert sparrow
Any recommendations on what to take from vault? I have a 636 everforged defender and a M track sacbrood / champion track void pactstone
Is the 3 ilvl increase on shield worth it for a crit / mast shield?
Shard obvi sims a lot higher for me atm
sweet summit
easier to get another shield than it is to get another shard + myth shard is a small (huge) upgrade from champ pactstone
covert sparrow
Yeah thats a good point. If the shield had better stats on it I'd be more enticed I think
tardy abyss
Stats don't matter much
wheat canopy
What do you guys think is easier to play between prot warr and prot pally?
grim pilot
Prob pwar
Only 1 thing to maintain/track and rest is using shield slam or thunder clap rotationally
wheat canopy
Only 1 thing to maintain/track and rest is using shield slam or thunder clap rot...
Don’t you have to maintain and track SB and IP? Lol
grim pilot
Only shield block
pallid quiver
Don’t you have to maintain and track SB and IP? Lol
IP we don't track at all; SB you don't even really need to track if you use HR because your uptime with it is disgustingly high as long as you're pressing buttons at all
wheat canopy
True I guess it’s pretty easy
When do you guys usually dump rage to ip?
Wowhead says 60-80 but I find I get huge spikes that overcap
tardy abyss
When close to rage cap
pallid quiver
To avoid overcapping; ends up around 60-70 rage
pallid quiver
Wowhead says 60-80 but I find I get huge spikes that overcap
That's coming from CDs and Violent Outburst
which you do track
just like any spec tbh
wheat canopy
I see
grim pilot
Yes you track it but its not necessary when learning a spec
pallid quiver
The most amount of rage you get in a single global is an outbursted SS, which gives about 40 rage in a single go (It depends on selected talents)
grim pilot
I was referring to base gameplay loop
wheat canopy
I feel like IP is pressed ALOT
pallid quiver
yes
wheat canopy
I think they should tone it down a bit lol
wheat canopy
Kind of annoying pressing it every other gcd
cerulean tusk
Boii is Skauty going to be happy with the changes
wheat canopy
Lmao that sounds like a positive to me
wheat canopy
Agreed
tardy abyss
A kneecap is not good
pallid quiver
If doing healer level DPS is your positive, then you'll be the Warrior stan
Otherwise,
pallid quiver
Prot War's gonna be an unhealthy bit weaker defensively and will do puddles for damage
wheat canopy
Well if assume they’d buff ability damage if they’re taking away dumping rage every other gcd
pallid quiver
they're not.
tardy abyss
They're not
wheat canopy
Oof
pallid quiver
They're just reducing rage gen by like half almost
wheat canopy
Ok so just stick with my pally then eh? Lmao
tardy abyss
-30% ST
pallid quiver
Pally is just about as fast
grim pilot
Even more iirc
pallid quiver
So if you have issues with going fast, that won't help, either
wheat canopy
Yeah but at least SOTR does some Th ing
No issues with going fast. Just issues with just yelling to dump rage
pallid quiver
I mean IP cycles everything in Prot War, too. It just doesn't deal direct damage
tardy abyss
And it's not like we have too much rage in high keys
pallid quiver
Same as SotR pushes CDR by spending HP
wheat canopy
Maybe I’m just not amused to it so I get all flustered
cerulean tusk
Well, it is going to die soon, so hey
wheat canopy
Used to it*
pallid quiver
It's fine if it's just a better button feel wise for you to press
cerulean tusk
Just be glad you didnt get used to smooth gameplay
pallid quiver
But they're close to the same thing rotationally
though IP won't be if current trends continue
you'll still press it to avoid overcapping, but that won't happen as often
so you'll just be squishier, have damage CDs less often, and have defensive CDs less often
kind urchin
Prot warrior is fun but I don't know if I'd classify it as smooth. It's more like whack a mole. Which is part of the fun of it.
cyan bronze
pwar is very smooth
sweet summit
source?
cyan bronze
my face when I have to wait for melee swings 50x for rage to get a revenge to reset my shield slam
sweet summit
good job
cyan bronze
sweet summit
w take
cyan bronze
(idk how ppal works)
cyan bronze
should be gutted tho
cyan bronze
Me seeing someone run Ravager instead of BSV
what if they run bsv instead of bursting voice
cerulean tusk
Why would take hurt their tierset next patch? Doing something like that would be silly
tardy abyss
That is illegal
cyan bronze
Why would take hurt their tierset next patch? Doing something like that would be...
what
sweet summit
Why would take hurt their tierset next patch? Doing something like that would be...
i agree with this statement
cyan bronze
That is illegal
me when no sc bsv bolster build next tier
cyan bronze
i agree with this statement
what do statement mean
tardy abyss
me when no sc bsv bolster build next tier
Holy fuck
cyan bronze
can we turn intervene into a true immunity for the person getting it
please.
I would be fine with the changes if we got that
tardy abyss
You mean spellward on steroids?
tardy abyss
Lmao
sweet summit
yeah i'd be fine taking a swim in some lava if i get to enjoy cookies after :3 thanks
cyan bronze
yeah i'd be fine taking a swim in some lava if i get to enjoy cookies after :3 t...
we would be soo good in m+
just don’t ask how it would feel to play
tardy abyss
well technically we would take the dmg
Like we care
wheat canopy
We should get banner from shadowlands back
wheat canopy
How is it terrible? It’s a buff for you and your group. Would make warriors more appealing to be invited
wheat canopy
I agree with that
sweet summit
i swear to god lust would not change anything please come back to earth
tardy abyss
Let me live in my bubble you partypooper
tardy abyss
😦
cerulean tusk
We talking about warrior utility? We reached the ask of the AoE combatress yet?
We need that
then we will be meta
sweet summit
you're spitting facts today
tardy abyss
Just scream somebody back to life
sweet summit
rawr :3
jagged gust
Clearly what needs to happen is merge fury and prot
2h weapon+shield, rampage as an offensive spender, IP for defensive
jagged gust
And then the old fury becomes a support apec
sweet summit
odyn's protection 
jagged gust
Odyn's SLAM
mighty valley
god everyone hated banner initially when it was sold as an ally buff
pallid quiver
yeah fuck my friends
mighty valley
then they just cranked the personal power into space
pallid quiver
they already pull shit on to my face
I still stand that banner isn't particularly interesting; it just moved APM higher
cerulean tusk
Noone minded buffing friendlies, we minded having to use our CD on someone schedule
pallid quiver
There wouldn't be nearly as much fun with it this time around because we'd need a talent for banner and for the lego effect that enabled it because there's no charge weaving or any limitations to work around; there's not that much extra rage you can fish out as long as you press buttons
It's really just kinda "AM but if you mess up you lose 30% str"
mighty valley
yeah we’d just play extremely normally to receive 24% str buff
which is what we did then too
but playing normally required charge/intervene
pallid quiver
Yeah, charge weaving was still required as part of the baseline play to keep SB up because of tank design, ye
But I still think that whole thing altogether is what made it all come together. Just getting banner back is really not interesting
Unless you get extreme highs off pressing your buttons faster
I enjoy high APM that has depth to it, and I don't think that'd add any of that
it's just even more APM
mighty valley
Yeah it’s just reinforcement that you’re playing well I guess
pallid quiver
A lot of people do like that
mighty valley
But it did take the hardest iteration of prot warrior and make it more unforgiving to people who couldn’t play it right
pallid quiver
But it doubles down into what Blizz states is their problem with Prot and doesn't do anything novel or interesting with decision making
pallid quiver
But it did take the hardest iteration of prot warrior and make it more unforgivi...
Yeah, this is part of my issue, since banner ended up being a massive gap that disabled a lot of people from playing Prot well
I play a lot of high skill floor chars in fight games, so it's not like the concept is unfamiliar to me
But it does not feel good to have a really high skill floor like that
Especially if people are supposed to be invested in a character as a character RPG style instead of as a tool to engage with the game.
I think there's more people that actually have the latter mentality in this game and it's probably the source of a lot of their frustrations, since they create grind and friction on themselves by doing so
pulsar pumice
Just a quick question about the priority list in the Wowhead guide. For the most part, it's pretty much 'hit things as they come off cooldown', right?
More nuanced than that, obviously, but purely down to basics
pallid quiver
yes
The TC who wrote that guide even had his avatar saying Send CDs on CD for a while, iirc
pulsar pumice
Handy, thanks!
cerulean tusk
My best advice is just sending things on CD, then gradually try to move things around as you notice problems to solve. In general, just remember - the most dangerous part, is the start of the pull
primal roost
So I levelled my warrior as my first late season alt. I’m interested in playing protection. But I’m having a few difficulties.
The first one is keybindings. I use a similar keybind setup for each class yet I’m finding difficulties with this one due to having multiple overlapping abilities. Such as charge and shield charge or how I have spell reflect and spell block both competing for my “utility defensive” keybind.
The second is that all the guides say to spam ignore pain to avoid overcapping on rage, and I could just be bad, but I feel like I’m spamming it a ton esp during avatar ravager and spear. It’s hit so often it actually hurts my hands ngl.
I really want to play protection because of the fantasy but how can I resolve these issues if at all?
cerulean tusk
So I levelled my warrior as my first late season alt. I’m interested in playing ...
First things first, yeah - having overlapping binds work really well. Interupts on the same button, your core rotationals and long defencives make sense. I do the same. Now,
Keybinds need to be comfortable for you, so this kinda hits on the 2nd problem as well. I recommend either having ignore pain on scrollwheel or on your thumb action mouse button. At least what works for me. Also, try not to fall in the APM trap. Many click a button twice or thrice, instead of once, each time. This really adds up stress.
You can combine a few buttons here and there. Like hamstring and charge, pummel and heroic throw, yet Prot do have a lot of binds overall. Just make sure to utilise all your core button positions:
qwerasdfcv12345, tab, caps - are all super comfortable for me, find what fits for you and use them. Remember - mousebuttons rock for things that are hyper reactive. Ignorepain, shieldslam, spell reflect. While slower things like shieldblock can be on number buttons. Long defencives that you use proactive can be on a bit more tricky binds, like shift-c, while more often used buttons like heroic leap can be on shift-f
Your issues are sadly very personal in nature, as it is your hands and your keyboard things gotta be based on. But hopefully you find something I said to be useful
cyan bronze
First things first, yeah - having overlapping binds work really well. Interupts ...
Putting this into my manifesto
cerulean tusk
I made it
pallid quiver
So I levelled my warrior as my first late season alt. I’m interested in playing ...
As a notice, yeah you press IP a lot as Prot Warrior. We're one of the highest APM specs in the game
It needs to be in a comfortable spot or you're going to hurt yourself
That and Shield Slam are the two
primal roost
Man that’s really sad to hear, honestly arms is one of my favorite specs because it feels pretty methodical and I was hoping prot would be that way.
While not optimal at all would I be able to do 10’s while dropping spell block and shield charge?
I get 10’s aren’t pinnacle content but I mean … I just am out of comfortable keybinds on my mmo mouse.
Like I don’t understand how shield charge just isn’t an upgrade to charge? Or spell block to reflect idk I get that spell reflect is super op in some circumstances but these seem like logical upgrades to the ability.
@pallid quiver I found that out to my chagrin lol. It’s literally just ignore pain that feels bad. I know it wouldn’t be optimal but I wish there was a talent to just give me another shield block charge.
I have IP bound to Shift 1 lol. Really great keybind for arms. Not for prot tho. I would use 7 but that’s used by victory rush to heal 😦
pulsar pumice
Not directly a solution to your issues, but for me personally, having an MMO mouse with 12 thumb buttons saves me a lot of issues with buttons being comfortable to reach
cerulean tusk
How are you out of binds?
Oh well, the only solution if you want easier but suboptimal, is starting to combine more things
pulsar pumice
Don't forget scrollbutton clicks and mouse scrolling binds either
Also, do a check to see whether you have things bound that you don't really need to.
cerulean tusk
I only got 25 binds tho, so you should have enough
oak ivy
IP is bound to 3 and SB is E for me, feelsniceman
pulsar pumice
I still need to rearrange my binds, since I haven't played protection since Cataclysm. It was setup for a completely different way of playing 😅
cerulean tusk
Zombie, you dont have things like slam and whirlwind bound?
primal roost
How are you out of binds?
Oh well, the only solution if you want easier but sub...
I would have to take a screen shot at home. “Out of binds” is incorrect technically. But it’s more like each slot is dedicated to certain things. Ie shift one minor defensive, alt 1 major defensive alt 5 utility defensive. Etc.
I guess the best example is the charges alt 8 and 11 are movement buttons right next to each other on my mouse. But if I have charge and leap and shield charge I am now “out of binds” because putting shield charge a movement ability on keybind 3 that I use for rotations is saddening
primal roost
Zombie, you dont have things like slam and whirlwind bound?
Nope 😦
cerulean tusk
There just is no way you dont have the binds at least, think you just need to expand your buttons - making ProtWarr the new baseline
these are basically all that are needed
pulsar pumice
And unfortunately, be a bit more flexible in where you put your skills.
No class is going to match skills perfectly, so some skills just won't be able to overlap with other classes
cerulean tusk
pulsar pumice
For me, the only skills I overlap with other classes are my interrupt, major defensive, filler skill, on-use trinket and gap closer.
Everything else is heavily dependent on what class I'm playing
primal roost
Yeah I guess. Idk I guess it just works normally for me. Maybe I just don’t play prot. All G. I mean it works for my like 6 other characters that I can’t bother to level lmao and I don’t want to change my system for offspec of a pvp alt. Thanks for the attempt I guess I’m just stubborn
cerulean tusk
Well, as mentioned, you can just slap button together and it will "work ok"
IP/Shieldslam, SB/Thunderclap, so on
Will trigger some folk, but - meh
pulsar pumice
It's all up to you of course, but it feels like a shame to not play a class you want to play just because you want skills to overlap with other classes perfectly
oak ivy
yes. take extra care in DB & CoT
pulsar pumice
I think the only skills I've slapped together are Charge and Intervene 🤔
oak ivy
yes. take extra care in DB & CoT
you may also have to play heavy repurcussions depending on your haste as Shield charge fills in the small gap in SB uptime
cerulean tusk
Dropping shield charge hurts my soul
pulsar pumice
Throw hamstring in there
Huh, that's an interesting thought. The gap closers and hamstring would never be able to be used at the same time anyway due to the distance restriction 🤔
cerulean tusk
You can doubletap it if bad, and waste a GCD tho
some ppl spam while charging charge charging
That GCD is normally locked for me by Heroic Throw, but some ppl find that to be a "huge" issue
pulsar pumice
Something to experiment with at least, see if it'll work for me
pallid quiver
yes. take extra care in DB & CoT
I looked away so I missed context, but you can do all 10s as long as you've spent all of your talent points at all
you could have literally spent them randomly
cerulean tusk
you gonna try Pummel and Throw too? >:)
pulsar pumice
Who knows! Everything is worth trying at least once. If it doesn't work as smoothly as you'd like, you can always switch back
cerulean tusk
I just dont want to hear ppl advicing ppl to not use shieldblock, when it can be linked to any ability if the devil got to eat flies
Just slap it into every button on you got x)
pulsar pumice
Macro everything
primal roost
Actually I can probably do a cast sequence macro for shield block charge.
They aren’t doing it for no reason. I just can’t manage the bonds because I have I guess a system for keybinds that doesn’t work with prot.
cerulean tusk
Just put shield block onto thunderclap or shieldslam
serene ruin
Are the nerfs as bad as they read?
cerulean tusk
you will be fine
They kinda bad, ye
but we dont know for sure yet - changes coming after all
primal roost
Just put shield block onto thunderclap or shieldslam
I actually got a dedicated mitigation button for sb, sotr, boneshield lol
cerulean tusk
Just dont think about the button, just slap it somewhere and forget it exists, as you want to simplify
pulsar pumice
Honestly I tend to take any changes with a grain of salt this early on. The patch is still quite a while out, so who knows what will still change
cerulean tusk
primal roost
Just dont think about the button, just slap it somewhere and forget it exists, a...
Forget shield block exists?
cerulean tusk
It is off GCD, and it stacks its duration
so ye
you can kinda get ok usage of it, at 100% uptime, just slapped as an add to a rotational ability
pallid quiver
Honestly I tend to take any changes with a grain of salt this early on. The patc...
The issue isn't the changes; tuning is tuning
The issue is that the reasoning they gave is actively not even remotely achieved by the changes they made
primal roost
Oh yeah it’s like sotr. So it goes on my sotr bind/ aoe spender for other specs :p shift 3
pallid quiver
So they're either actively lying to us or the dev working on Prot War just physically doesn't understand how the spec functions
And we're at a spot where it'd be better if it was the former
cerulean tusk
I think this is more likely:
The dev doing the change, and the dev writing the note are not talking
The dev doing the PR, just want it to be good PR from chatGDP
pallid quiver
True, but that's still an issue like I mentioned prior
Everything about it means there's a greater issue that tuning can't just fix
pallid quiver
There's something actively wrong and incorrect in a way that does not leave good health in the future
cerulean tusk
I will continue huffing copium instead of doomium for now. They are sure to release some banger changes that make the puzzle come together
and we go "aahhhh! Cool!"
"It all makes sense now, this will be fun!"
pallid quiver
I don't need either when I can see an active problem
Until they've show they've fixed that, even if we do get good changes,
There's gonna be the dread
cerulean tusk
while I agree to and see where you are coming from
I just need to copium, or WoW is deadge
pulsar pumice
I fully understand your point, but I do also think that doom thinking (however justified) doesn't really help anyone or anything.
tribal wharf
someone made wow in java
pallid quiver
I don't think of it as doom thinking at all. It's just being realistic that we need them to fix the problem that's actually the root problem
tribal wharf
using wc3 assets
pallid quiver
Dooming would be "prot deadge, sad, time to quit wow forever :("
tribal wharf
i think tey are trying to reverse bloodborne port it, so instead of from console to pc now its from pc to console
its like hl2, hl3, ppl wouldnt stop took it into own hands
pallid quiver
This is, "Hey, uh, guys, we need actual dev adjustments here. Either someone needs to be trained, communication needs to be had, AI needs to not make design decisions, whatever it is. Could we get an update on that?"
Unless they make a post like that, it's just the situation that it's not a great outlook for a healthy design environment
cerulean tusk
Their AI will answer with: No, no AI here. Only a crack-team dedicated for the task!"
Just remember, the rage change was not meant for us
But for the ppl who come in here and say "prot too fast" in one way or another
They are the majority being cattered too, performance effects aside
pallid quiver
The problem with that is
prot pal's just about as fast, and there's faster, too
And Prot Pal is even played more on average
cerulean tusk
Ye, but they loud about warrior. Warrior just seems more hectic
Why? no idea, I am not them
But forum and so on does echo the sentiment
pallid quiver
So it ties all back into the same overarching things
cerulean tusk
Got to think it from a casuals PoV, not our - is all tank specs about the same APM? Yes.
But for a casual, warrior just seems to be so fast and so much going on. So they want it to "slow down". Be more like:
- Charge, shieldslam
auto
auto
auto
shieldslam
... if I had to guess.
pallid quiver
but there's more going on for a baseline casual on prot pala if we're going by that
How many new, casual players have you talked to? How many have you interacted with? Prot Pala is generally considered scary because they hear about all the utility, and there's all these buttons that do different things
A lot of actual casual players won't even fuss over storm bolt and shockwave both existing
they just won't even bind storm bolt
because shockwave aoe so it better
wheat canopy
Got to think it from a casuals PoV, not our - is all tank specs about the same A...
Are they really though? I find BDK real slow compared to warrior and paladin
pallid quiver
they're all among some of the higher apm specs in the game, but Pala and War are definitely faster than BDK
Bear and get up there, but isn't quite as high iirc,
cyan bronze
bear is inflated by if
pallid quiver
VDH looks high but a lot of its cpm is automated filler, so it has a lot of fluff
cyan bronze
which is scroll wheel apm
cyan bronze
VDH looks high but a lot of its cpm is automated filler, so it has a lot of fluf...
souls are indeed considered apm
vdh isn’t low tho
pallid quiver
That's why I differ APM from CPM, because of abilities like that
cyan bronze
it’s just not crazy high
pallid quiver
It's like the equivalent of like 60 CPM iirc or something after removing the fluff?
cyan bronze
that sounds about right
pallid quiver
It's not like 80 or so like Prots get to
pallid quiver
60 is like average melee spec actual CPM
So you're pressing a button a second on average
cyan bronze
i would filter out ip and if for pwar and bear tho
pallid quiver
you're literally pressing those buttons
pallid quiver
You physically can't filter them
for if you're literally pressing the button in some way, shape, or form
cyan bronze
scroll wheel
cyan bronze
think there’s a bit of a difference from holding scroll wheel down to dump rage and actual rotational apm
is all
pallid quiver
So most tanks are pretty average in CPM
cyan bronze
like i get what you’re saying
pallid quiver
If you do, you wouldn't be going on that, since we're talking about the sheer amount of actual abilities you're sending, input method be damned, since that's what people were said to be complaining about
It's extremely dismissive to say otherwise, since then you're just telling people they're wrong because they're not binding things like you and invalidating their experience
cyan bronze
i don’t necessarily think it’s that deep
also like
the issue of prot war and bear having similar “apm” to something like x tank
is x tank is going to feel significantly higher apm than the former
since 1/4th of your apm isn’t scroll wheel dump
input method be damned though
dense cradle
vdh really likes haste
is there a tank that doesnt?
dense cradle
Oh yeah i remember their mastery was kind of meh
cyan bronze
their mastery is good
crit for brew is bigly tho
more healing thru celestial fortune, parry, just goodge ig
dense cradle
block for warrior?
cyan bronze
fun fact
sweet summit
bear and monk dodge rest also parry or
cyan bronze
cus bear only dodges
they can’t loot throng finger
u have to do 2 of block parry dodge
to loot it
dense cradle
cus they don’t parry
tfw no paw parry
kind urchin
It's called actions per minute and not key presses per minute for a reason. We all know key spamming is normal. And scroll wheel still counts.
cyan bronze
It's called actions per minute and not key presses per minute for a reason. We ...
sure
sweet summit
It's called actions per minute and not key presses per minute for a reason. We ...
actions are also key presses that do nothing in game :chatting:
any nitro giftas
cyan bronze
but a spec that’s 30% apm of scroll wheel
WILL feel lower
than a spec with equal apm
that does not scroll wheel dump
cyan bronze
are you playing last resort man
dense cradle
no
cyan bronze
kind urchin
actions are also key presses that do nothing in game :chatting:
In that case all classes are 1000 apm when played by some people.
dense cradle
just no soul furnace
dense cradle
or crit immo aura
cyan bronze
soulcarver is ass for m+
well
its good st
but no one plays real m+ content with it
dense cradle
it feels that spec drops alot more damage talent
ig war you can drop revenge dam for 6% magic dam?
cyan bronze
well it drops it for very strong talents
is the thing
and the dmg talents
are kinda weak
sweet summit
In that case all classes are 1000 apm when played by some people.
yeah if you really want them to i think that's fair 
cyan bronze
like vf for most people
will barely be a gain
and most people will have 100% of vf fury gain go to waste
dense cradle
isnt ascending flame the bigger one
cyan bronze
yes AF is a lot of damage
dense cradle
like prot war definitely more clearcut
on how to spend
i prob dont spb enough on veng
cyan bronze
correct
more dr and damage
you can get more sc/m than spm/m due to its nature and thus higher avg frailty stacks
frailty also applies twice with sc(once via void reaver, once via soulcrush), once with spb iirc
dense cradle
cleaving with no souls is how you’re supposed to spend excess fury isnt it
cyan bronze
cleaving with no souls is how you’re supposed to spend excess fury isnt it
cleaving
less so with no souls, in low tcount cleave just does more dmg
dense cradle
Well you need souls to even spb but true
cyan bronze
it’s just with the first you spend 2 souls
dense cradle
okayge
cyan bronze
vdh is rotationally harder
but
there’s not a lot more to it? if that makes sense
like the cd rotation is difficultly simple ig
flint tiger
is there a consensus for what citrine gems are best for M+, outside of whatever one of the wowhead guides say?
bit confused why the windsinger's runed citrine (2281 to highest secondary) isn't better than the stormbringer's runed citrine (472 of every secondary).
pallid quiver
is there a consensus for what citrine gems are best for M+, outside of whatever ...
whatever sims best
It'll vary depending on what your stats even currently are
The more you have of one stat, the more valuable others are, etc etc
Due to DRs, potential talent benefits
If you don't want to think slap on whatever gems IV or Wowhead says
If you still don't want to think but can put effort in, sim with all gems
If you want to think, I recommend not thinking.
cerulean tusk
Are they really though? I find BDK real slow compared to warrior and paladin
Warr and BDK are limited mainly by GCD, warrior got more off gcd, as we all know. Yet, both build haste and such push buttons equally fast. BDK got more haste than warrior, with queen, bonearmor and DD. But no real off gcd.
So while warrior is faster, it is far from slow itself. BDK will feel different, but even it fill the GCD
GCD is the main limiter after all for everyone. So when both equal the same baseline APM, let's call it 60 for simplicity, but warrior got 70 from IP casts, they are basically the same
I agree to the feel part tho. Warrior feel very hectic with procs and what not
wheat canopy
Yeah I think that’s what it is tbh. I always feel like a stress when SS is available but it be touches other buttons. And even more stress when both thunder blast has 2 charges and SS is available lol
wheat canopy
I agree. I think I just need to get used to it more to feel more relaxed. I usually play prot pally and much has generally the same speed as warr if not more but since I know w what I should be doing it doesn’t feel as hectic
cerulean tusk
I gotten into the chill zone finally, fingers press, mind wanders and can focus on mob actions
Shieldcharge, clap, wall - sip tea 🍵
The good life
wheat canopy
Looking forward to that 😅
jagged gust
bit confused why the windsinger's runed citrine (2281 to highest secondary) isn'...
those are two different gem slots my guy
Windsinger competes with Skipper, which based off sims and logs is 1.3ish% overall damage, which apparently is simply more damage than an extra 2k haste
white dock
i am planning on crafting 1h weapon and shield, considering its pretty late in the season i dont expect to get weapons after all from vault does this make sense?
should i also still use the vers embellishment?
trail forge
I did that exact thing, crafted a bunch of pieces for my fresh warrior once the crest cost changes came out. I think a 1h + shield is the right way to go - even if you get something in your vault, you'll be able to recraft it next season with an S2 crest
white dock
🤔 didnt realize weapons dont use the same embellishments oh well
hollow citrus
oh, did crest costs change?
trail forge
Yeah crafting Gilded is much cheaper and the Harbinger of the Gilded achievement is much more achievable now AND dungeons give more crests. So the gearing process, especially for alts got a massive boost
maiden ravine
they also changed the upgrade trade to 45:15 from 90:15
Do y'all like any of the tank trinkets next season?
the bombsuit absorb seems really high
but no primary stat
pallid quiver
SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT
I haven't looked at any of them.
maiden ravine
wowhead posted the raid trinkets
pallid quiver
The rage thing? If so, yes
pallid quiver
uh, press spell block if you take liquefy?
pallid quiver
then press spell block if you take liquefy, remember to spell reflect the group root
wicked pollen
yeah im taking liqify
pallid quiver
Honestly, if you're taking liquefy, P1 is pretty much stand where you're told, don't get hit by shit, use defensives
wicked pollen
i do wall demo sac first, sB (wall maybe) sexond, wall
yeah
but i hate gathering the boss
its so cringe
tanking needs to be removed from the game
pallid quiver
If you're taking all Liquefies, you'll have spell block for 1 and 3
Spell Block dramatically reduces the impact of liquefy on you
You should also be able to SR the first one for some free extra DR and still have it back for the webs iirc
wicked pollen
im prioing having sw for 1/3
wicked pollen
You should also be able to SR the first one for some free extra DR and still hav...
not possible
its 11 in
i need this boss to explode
and find another tbak
i wonder it i should play execute already
feel something when i get sd procs
pallid quiver
Ah, you're right
At any rate, you'll need to SR every tomb; just helps an ungodly amount
There's like 40-ish seconds between 1st and third, with a minute between 2nd and 3rd, so you can SW both 2nd and 3rd
wicked pollen
i can sw all 3
pallid quiver
Can probably even do all with SW
wicked pollen
if im not panicing
pallid quiver
yeah was gonna say as Thane
pallid quiver
It's really just calm down; oh, also, the Oust the tank mobs do in P2, that does have a slight knockback to it
don't get knocked off like a dum dum if you make it there
pallid quiver
It shouldn't be too hard; she doesn't really hit that hard as long as you handle mechs fine
wicked pollen
its more so its mind numbing
round pendant
Raid tanking is awful
violet ginkgo
it's relaxing more than awful
pulsar pumice
Just as a general question, how useful is it to make a weakaura that'll show the Ignore Pain icon anytime you're above 60-80 rage?
wicked pollen
you can just look at a rage bar?
pulsar pumice
I'm more of an icon person 😅 somehow resource bars always end up blending into the background for me
wicked pollen
what does the rest of your ui look like
because that just sounds like you have too much information and you are just blocking it out
pulsar pumice
Honestly, I mostly just use the default UI, with my character portrait with health/rage slightly to the left of my character
wicked pollen
where are your eyes during combat
pulsar pumice
Any kind of information that's on the screen consistently tends to fade in the background, which is probably why pop ups tend to work better, since it's a sudden change I can instantly notice
My eyes are usually on the enemy , so slightly above my character
wicked pollen
do you tend to look down at your bars
pulsar pumice
Practically never actually
wicked pollen
that would be the only reason i could think of that would cause pops being more valueable
jagged gust
more importantly, tracking IP right now is pretty unnecessary
Next season? We'll see
willow edge
I use a IP tracker that shows my shield from that. If its about to time out or low I refresh a stack, otherwise revenge spam
I also use a tracker for shield block.
violet ginkgo
Next season? We'll see
Next season we
orchid frigate
see that some warriors go crit/haste others hast/vers, do i have to decide on a specific path or can i mix and match a bit?
tardy abyss
I use a IP tracker that shows my shield from that. If its about to time out or l...
Why use Revenge at all when not fishing for SS
ionic fern
Mix and match.
tardy abyss
Pretty sure that is a dps loss
ionic fern
A healthy mix of stats is the best way to go generally, just focus on Haste.
pulsar pumice
Another question: In the priority both Ravager and Avatar are generally used on cooldown. Since they have the same cooldown, is there any benefit to macroing them together?
willow edge
Why use Revenge at all when not fishing for SS
Revenge can proc shield spam resets. Press shield slam on cd.
I’m not seeing the issue?
My revenge and IP are right next to each other so if I need to refresh it it’s right there too.
willow edge
see that some warriors go crit/haste others hast/vers, do i have to decide on a ...
Ilvl>stats but I’ve been a high haste crit warrior most of the season and it’s been fine. Admittedly I’m not pushing cutting edge or attempting content higher than 11s
tardy abyss
Because you could also just use the rage on IP to spam more SS as IP does not use a gcd unlike Revenge
= faster rage spending = Avatar is up faster
As Thane you should not be using Revenge for dps
ionic fern
As Thane you should not be using Revenge for dps
That's a bit extreme.
You're still using Revenge as Thane.
Same logic applies, you Revenge if you don't have SS/TC.
It's just less as Thane.
ionic fern
It still does dps..
tardy abyss
You're kinda missing the point tho
orchid frigate
Ilvl>stats but I’ve been a high haste crit warrior most of the season and it’s b...
ah nice! was planning on doing some DPS as arms so with crit haste theres that benefit as well 🙂
tardy abyss
ah nice! was planning on doing some DPS as arms so with crit haste theres that b...
That's what I do yup
willow edge
Was ignore pain stealth added to the shield slam reset
tardy abyss
Although for casual content haste mastery from Fury is fine too
willow edge
ionic fern
Was ignore pain stealth added to the shield slam reset
No.
blazing condor
would be broken
willow edge
Because you could also just use the rage on IP to spam more SS as IP does not us...
Well the way you worded this sounded like IP resets slam. It doesn’t and I was confused for a tad.
Yeah would be nice if hero talents were sort of comparable
willow edge
Revenge without other talents buffing it is barely weaker than slam last I checked
Wonder if we will see all the rage nerfs upcoming changes to nerf MT rage Gen since colossus isn’t really overlapping rage in my experience.
ionic fern
Neither is Thane.
You just spam IP instead of Revenge since your rage gen is higher as Thane.
willow edge
Fair enough
tardy abyss
But not high enough to warrant these nerfs 
willow edge
Yeah it’s good to see no one is impressed by them
flat garden
On this subject, won't our single target DPS and IP uptime be also heavily impacted with the S2 changes if they go live in this state? I'm still new to prot warrior in TWW but I find them to be quite low already
ionic fern
Correct.
orchid frigate
since protwar is geting nerfs, are protpaladins and brewmasters also being nerfed?
flat garden
since protwar is geting nerfs, are protpaladins and brewmasters also being nerfe...
Prot paladins have hardly been touched.
They are also getting a ridiculously OP tier set compared to other tanks if the patch notes are to be trusted.
willow edge
Well warrior was the top tank in classic and I just think blizzard still isnt over it if you ask me.
pulsar pumice
Someone refresh my memory: A long, long, long time ago (maybe TBC or WotLK?), wasn't Revenge one of the higher damage abilities of prot war?
Or am I horribly misremembering
willow edge
Might be thinking of cata where every tank does solid damage from its stacking buff?
tardy abyss
since protwar is geting nerfs, are protpaladins and brewmasters also being nerfe...
Why brew lol
orchid frigate
Why brew lol
arent they about as good as protwar?
tardy abyss
No clue, almost nobody plays brew
oak ivy
Might have to bench the warrior for a while if current standings/projections remain as they are (hello am meta slave but I've been married to pwar for 4 seasons now)
orchid frigate
yeah just got back to tanking this expansion but not very eager on playing something getting giga nerfed
so might do the same
flat garden
Yeah same. I will get my pal to lvl 80 and about 610 ilvl before S2 begins just in case.
I REALLY want to play my warrior but also want to to be able to get invited in keys when my mates are offline 😅
willow edge
Ill go arms and hope my guildies dont quit on M+ early
tardy abyss
Ill go arms and hope my guildies dont quit on M+ early
As if that ever happens in any guild
Not quitting I mean
willow edge
Its wishful thinking
tardy abyss
And when they don't quit they refuse to learn
oak ivy
And when they don't quit they refuse to learn <:keks:936231610850897992>
The only group of people I know that consistently do M+ throughout an entire season consistently get aotc 3/4 of the way through any given tier
like 3 weeks ago ansurek prog
Tanks with a tendency to run in, die, and run in again
Healers that can simultaneously not heal and go oom
DPS that you couldn't pay to read a class guide
Love those guys, no meme
fluid torrent
Yeah same. I will get my pal to lvl 80 and about 610 ilvl before S2 begins just...
Not so sure about that Every time I prepared (or started into season) with any (broken) meta tank they got nerfed after few weeks.
Since then I just played a healthy mix of 2-4 tanks at the same time. Dont know about your keylevels but got never any problems to get invited. Couldnt say I would wait much longer on my BrM or DK than on my ppal in the area of 10-11s.
dull tulip
i think it's reroll angle when s2 comes
fluid torrent
But tldr; just play what makes fun. Ppal might be broken rn, but is the least fun to play tank to me (except drood, which I dont play at all)
pulsar pumice
Quick question inbetween: What do people usually have Brann at in Delves when running it as prot? Healer or DPS?
dull tulip
i love it when blizzard just shits on a balanced spec because it's balanced
dull tulip
Quick question inbetween: What do people usually have Brann at in Delves when ru...
doesn't matter really they do around the same damage
go heal if you're uncomfortable
pulsar pumice
Huh interesting. If the damage is the same, might as well go healing then
dull tulip
i think damage brann gives you some buffs but i might be mistaken
fluid torrent
or go heal if you want to do achievements... as dps he can sabotage some of them, like dont spawn spiderlings out of webs. He just fckng jumps around and destroys so much webs, that you could easily step in if not aware as dps brann
dull tulip
i think i might call it for the warrior if fury doesn't play anger management next tier
because prot seems unplayable with all these nerfs
fluid torrent
just wait for new year when ptr hits. They posted the ptr notes and nearly immediately gone into holidays. Not even time to react to feedback rn.
dull tulip
the thing that concerns me the most is how disconnected they are
how are you nerfing prot warrior when we don't get accepted into 14 keys
fluid torrent
same question as why ppals can be that broken over an extended time or in DF the same with DHs and before again with Ppals 🤷♂️
dull tulip
they're promoting the nonfun specs
well it's not like prot is tons of fun
unlike blood
but prot paladin feels bad
fluid torrent
fun is a matter of subjection. Pwarri feels fun a few weeks for me, then its becoming a little boring over time. Ppal least fun like mentioned before. Blood really balanced for me while I get the most fun out of BrM gameplay
dull tulip
prot paladin on shadowlands was amazing
rotations felt good
you got hpower on avenger's shield
but it was considered bad
fluid torrent
BrM was even more fun with notable damage on spinning crane kick. Just feels so fckng bad to just tiger palm in aoe 😦
cerulean tusk
i think i might call it for the warrior if fury doesn't play anger management ne...
AM is already playable, I seen nothing to suggest it should become weaker 
As long you are fine taking that 1-2% ST dps hit (and 0.5-1% up on MT), you are golden
violet ginkgo
U think bliz know what they are doing?
Yes, however I was under the effect of
pallid quiver
since protwar is geting nerfs, are protpaladins and brewmasters also being nerfe...
Blizz is on their Arc Sys patch arc; they're gonna buff prot pala
cyan bronze
same question as why ppals can be that broken over an extended time or in DF the...
ppal being good for this long is normal?
half a season is unreasonable?
2 seasons was silly, sure, but a meta tank for a season isn’t crazy
dusky notch
Hey guys i wanna craft a cloak but what stats should i put ? im 632 atm with 30% haste 12% vers 10% crit 15 / mast ? Should i craft with crit vers or something instead of more haste ? My cloak atm give 500 crit so i will go from 2829 crit to 23xx crit (:
fluid widget
Hey guys i wanna craft a cloak but what stats should i put ? im 632 atm with 30%...
Sim it!
flat garden
ppal being good for this long is normal?
They did get a good buff around week 5 in S1 so I'd be surprised if they nerfed the spec to the gutter in S2. If / when it does get nerfed it'll probably end up being just "good"
Nothing is set in stone before the season starts but it doesn't bode well for warriors right now.
Just praying Blizzard balancing team sobbers up from their holiday break and return to reality.
maiden ravine
I'm not expecting any more tuning hotfixes before 11.1 unless you meant ptr changes once it's up.
fluid torrent
ppal being good for this long is normal?
did not mention that "good" over this duration wouldnt be normal. I did say that broken(!) over a subjectively long (long is a term of feeling) duration should not be acceptable.
But sadly its the same as always for Ppals... If they survive the pulls and dont do absurdly less damage than other tanks they feel broken cause of their kit. The skillceiling is high to utilise their toolkit optimal, but no other tank got a comparable strong toolkit to work with.
And if the above requirements are met (survive, comparable damage and a not braindead player) they will always be meta if no other tank gt a broken toolkit (only example would be vdh s3 and s4 in df)
flat garden
I'm not expecting any more tuning hotfixes before 11.1 unless you meant ptr chan...
Well there is technically still time for Blizzard to change some of the changes they announced for 11.1, however unlikely it is.
I'll gear my prot warrior in hope that the class is fine despite the changes, but I might just end up switching class if it's severaly underperforming compared to another tank
jagged pier
It will be 'fine'
But that doesnt mean it will be fun
Or do much damage
Etc etc
But it will do its function 'fine'
maiden ravine
I remember SL s1, protadin was supposed to be the best tank then too but turns out randomly getting one shot is negative for completion, so the kite meta was born with VDH.
fluid torrent
yeah, it just didnt met the survivability check back then 😄
jagged pier
Paladon is always meta if it can live
And it can right now so it is
Something me and nome said seasonf 1 of DF from the start and the start of this season
Both said pala was better ppl just sleeping on it
We were right again
maiden ravine
I still think protadin should get some type of scalable active mitigation that isn't just pray you live to use wog.
fluid torrent
Would be a good change imo, yes. But at the same time they should be gutted rly heavy on their toolkit. Much longer cooldowns on their immunities, Sac and Freedom, as well as way less offheal capabilities. Pushing him more into fullfilling his own role than being the support god in tank disguise
Could be of course the other way too and give other tanks more tools to play with, such as br, lust, offheal, support, whatever 🤷♂️ Just bring them in balance with their toolkits
sweet summit
I don't think it's too cool if everyone can so everything
all blizzard has to do is reduce the damage paladin does by some value and the next tank pops up
fluid torrent
Not what I was thinking of. Just equally good toolkits. Its totally fine if pally going the more support route. But why not give warrior lust? With their shout and rally it would be totally nice to give them lust as well. Why not give monk something like "link to player x, stagger some of their dmg intake".
Examples to get their toolkit stronger while also maintaining diversity.
sweet summit
idk the example you gave is just evoker external
you can't have equally good toolkits without full overlap
there will always be something slightly better or worse
fluid torrent
idk the example you gave is just evoker external
bro, thats literally the functioning of brewmaster since years just extended to serve as an external :kekw
😄
sweet summit
yeah
fluid torrent
of course there will be overlaps. overlaps existing since always everywhere
just design them thematically different
cant avoid getting more overlaps. but if designed well I think it would be positive to bring more balance in tanks toolkits
median kayak
how hard will the 11.1 changes hit on prot war ? ... cant really estimate how much of a nerf it will be
median kayak
ahh i see ... hmm sounds really bad 😦
dusky canopy
maiden ravine
My belief is Blizzard is doing the resource economy change first and then will tune numbers after.
You'd think they'd be able to sim accurately internally
I think they just outsource that work for free and wait for parses haha
sweet summit
silent shard
raven knoll
how did this punks nerf prot warrior over pala? are they on cocain?
mighty valley
i don’t think it’s intended to be a nerf, the designer just doesn’t know where the power in prot warrior comes from
so. we gotta tell them
(after new years)
shut summit
yep, def not intended to be a nerf
fwiw the idea behind slowing down rage is fine overall, problem is that the changes are half-baked and should be accompanied by more / other changes
versed snow
Rerolling BRM