protection

[cyan bronze]

on avg

it’s prob like 1m or 40 sec

cd

[sharp gale]

Yes if you have a dot on you it procc on ppm

[cyan bronze]

but idk

id have to test

[high wyvern]

Never seen it in M+ at least. Or MDI these guys are doing like 20 mil dps but never rip threat

I guess i cant compare mdi tanks to pug tanks

[sharp gale]

But you don’t have a dot on you most of the time

[fluid widget]

Surprisingly there was a couple times ice died to pulling threat

[cyan bronze]

yah id have to see idk

the damage on it could also be ok idk tho

depends on if it’s per target or split

it could also have a high scaling coefficient

so it’s a lot at higher ilvl

[kind urchin]

I had a problem ripping off my vdh co tank for a while. He asked me to hold back. I said "No, get better".

[sharp gale]

I don’t think it’s split dmg because it would be doggo shit dmg

[cyan bronze]

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/items/armor/trinkets?filter=82;2;110007#0+1+19

btw

here’s a list of all ptr items datamined

sort by ilvl

some neat ones

this one caught my eye

only for merit of being cool

and not being good

as it’s really bad

[sharp gale]

We will have 2 big red buttons trinkets

Motherlode has one

[cyan bronze]

We will hit the red buttons

[sharp gale]

Or it is the Motherlode trinket they just changed it

[cyan bronze]

No there’s a new one I believe

[sharp gale]

Because there is a renamed workshop trinket

From doggo mech boss

It’s nzoth trinket

[hardy snow]

btw. in notes they said they "rebuilt Outburst", by "rebuilt" they just mean we will need 10 more rage spent to proc it, but text is easier to read 🤷‍♂️

this one sounds cool

[fluid widget]

6m feels like a solid amount

[sharp gale]

If I remember the nzoth one was also almost your total health

[fluid widget]

Could be a surprisingly decent defensive trinket

[cyan bronze]

Man you were literally just complaining about this

https://tenor.com/view/miss-you-gif-11374444315394231730

[fluid widget]

No that was the sub 75% trinket I thought

[sharp gale]

It is closer to an additional digit than 2.6m, less cd

[cyan bronze]

Yeah trinkets next season r so epic

[cyan bronze]

oh

i posted both before

and I thought you were referring to both

before

but yeah

bomb suit is insanely good.

[sharp gale]

Oh no i Quick Check im on my way home so I may miss some comments

[cyan bronze]

no worries

yeah

also

btw

that’s at 623.

that’s not at 636.

el oh el

[sharp gale]

Yeah but can have a SV trinket situation

[cyan bronze]

sure ya

[sharp gale]

Ilvl increase the amount by nothing

[cyan bronze]

it was like a .001 scaling factor for sv

iirc

[hardy snow]

here is 639 version

[cyan bronze]

LOL

that’s a lot.

That’s a uh

lot

[hardy snow]

but at 678 its almost 11m, I guess our hp (and dmg taken) will grow way more

[sharp gale]

Sure we don’t take that amount for granted but it tells they want it to be a decent amount of total health

[cyan bronze]

ye it’s hard to say how good it’ll be

[hardy snow]

if scaling in wowheads tooltip are correct of course

[cyan bronze]

but just looking at the value at 639

looks to be very strong

on a 1.5m cd

worth running

[sharp gale]

That’s why, just see what they seems to want from it than actual numbers

[sweet summit]

pre mitigation damage

[fringe chasm]

Are those trinkets from new dungeons or raid?

[cyan bronze]

dunno

raid or new dung but idk

[fringe chasm]

That shield looks funny af to use

[sharp gale]

I think both, there is too many trinkets for just the new dungeon and the ones I know they are from workshop/motherlode

[cyan bronze]

ye

it’s from both

[hardy snow]

well, from our changes they want us to be more decision making when spending rage, yet their tuning doesnt change that at all, thats how I see what they want

[cyan bronze]

but idk if that one is from what

[sour flicker]

I consider now colossus as a dead hero talent, but thane still playable

[sharp gale]

You know it can be just a matter of a different dude managing different things

Since I believe it’s 1 or 2 dudes who is on all class tuning

[sour flicker]

part time

😄

[cyan bronze]

Part time paid internship(they pay to be there)

[native ember]

if i craft a weapon what embilishment should i put on it i already put dawnthread on my shield didnt realize i cant put it on weapon

feel like i fucked up lmao

[sharp gale]

Mmmmmh would I put the internship on class tuning, it rely on if class tuning in reality rely on coding the changes AND choosing them or not

[tardy abyss]

Actually no, but they often do different stuff

And its not like having one person for only 1-2 classes is better

Look at rogue/dh

[sharp gale]

Oh yeah

I remember it’s 1 dude for 2-3 classes

Idk when they said it tho

[tardy abyss]

Something like that

Never, thats just our assumption

[sharp gale]

I think it was in SL

[tardy abyss]

And honestly the devs do themselves a favour by not saying who they are here

[sharp gale]

When they put in place feedback first and they presented themselves

[native ember]

anyone ??

[tardy abyss]

Unfortunately they also dont communicate with the theorycrafters afaik

At least the hunter one doesnt

[tardy abyss]

You dont have to put one on your weapon

With how many sparks there are, just choose something else

[sweet summit]

ascendance is actually pretty good, but locked to weapon. assuming you can maintain decent uptime in dungeons which isn't too hard

[native ember]

ok word ty

[cyan bronze]

Realz is a realz one

[tardy abyss]

yeah dunno about that

[cyan bronze]

I like him

[tardy abyss]

As a person sure

But poor classes are suffering

[cyan bronze]

Idk about his work on rogue

But he does good on vdh

So I like him

[tardy abyss]

What about havoc

xd

[cyan bronze]

Havoc got really good changes this patch

Havoc isn’t exactly realz’s fault

Havoc players don’t know what they want havoc to be

The spec wants to go in 40 different directions and because of it fails going in any of them in a satisfying way

[harsh trellis]

Not sure how I feel about the prot changes. The more I read it it more it feels like pre legion nerfs to ignore pain

Then IP will be awesome and then they will take it away again

Then our set bonus gets nerfed also, unless leaving as is would just be silly. "Chance to reset the cooldown of Shield Slam from Devastator and Strategist reduced to 20% (was 30%)."

(2) Set: Each time you take damage you have a chance to activate Luck of the Draw! causing you to cast Shield Wall for 4 seconds. Your damage done is increased by 15% for 10 seconds after Luck of the Draw! activates.
(4) Set: During Luck of the Draw! Sheild Slam’s chance to critically strike is increased by 50% and its critical strikes reduce the cooldown of Shield Charge by 6 seconds.

[jagged pier]

Garbage

[valid sundial]

Are they trying to push WW and Slam into prot?

[cunning oriole]

Am I crazy, or is the 4-set bonus going to be useless now? No rage from SC and less SS due to being rage-starved?

[urban portal]

notice how it says fury:

[jagged pier]

No because it doesnt reset ss

[urban portal]

i think this datamine just says fury no longer has a revenge modifier

just code cleanup

[jagged pier]

Being rage starve doesnt effect ss

But all the changes are bad

[smoky anvil]

I wish they’d have learned that, historically, hitting rage gen doesn’t do anything but make people not wanna play the class.

[cunning oriole]

No, I just figured I would have to prioritize rage spenders, since I'm not going to have enough? Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong.

[smoky anvil]

This is the zoomer version of wow, let me get fuckin’ carpal tunnel in peace.

[jagged pier]

I think u guys are missing the fact its far less SWs as we get less SS procs and less rage into AM so IW is just 6 second soff SW CDR now

[harsh trellis]

Well, we can wait till they put a feedback thread for warriors and give our feedback.

And we are going into the gambling procs of shield wall randomly occuring

[jagged pier]

Brah your not gunna the rage to prio anything anymore

U basically gunna be press ip

[jagged pier]

They wont listen ppl said for months that the new ring was garbage then just buffed it like 4 times in the week up to launch

[smoky anvil]

They’ll say, “thank 4 feedback” push the changes, then at the very tail end of next phase give us +10% more IP shield. Then surprise pikachu face when class representation falls.

[jagged pier]

No u just ignore it because u cant rely on it happening

[valid sundial]

IT looks like they removed a lot of talents as well, did i miss something are we getting replacements?

[jagged pier]

No they changed them for the worth scroll down

[muted portal]

I don't want a kit full of "after you press this button, gain a 30% dmg 3 second buff to some other ability"

[urban portal]

the cycle of hatred change is hella funny

[true cliff]

I feel that, gameplay like that is really not satisfying.

[strong needle]

Just read patch notes seems like they are taking the fun button mashing aspect away from prot, are we atleast stronger? Or is this jsut a fun nerf and we stay relatively the same?

[hardy snow]

There is only endurance training being removed, how does "it looks like they removed a lot of talents"?

[cyan bronze]

I like it a lot

[cyan bronze]

Yeah

Yeah same man same

[hardy snow]

#protection message just as Nome said - hattrick

[strong needle]

oof

Kinda sucks I dont need warrior to be the best tank, but damn it was the most fun. Guess its back to 10s on the warr pushing on the pally zzzzz

[ionic nimbus]

They will adapt to our Feedback, for sure… in ID 17

[jagged pier]

theyve did it for like 2 patches in SLs when ppl mass left the game

then ignored it since

[pulsar locust]

Howdy, boys. I just read the class changes

[shut summit]

[jagged pier]

u know its bad when thats Sense's reaction

[urban bane]

yup

[strong forum]

wait hold on

[brittle owl]

what's happening to prot

[jagged pier]

got took out back and shot

[brittle owl]

ded spec?

[urban bane]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-sad-leaving-gif-10661695

[brittle owl]

floorpov?

[strong forum]

is NW always this much overall

[brittle owl]

boredom?

[urban bane]

was a good run

[strong forum]

i just did 1.8mil in NW

i feel like thats ALOT

[fleet flicker]

nerf warrior

[jagged pier]

depends how big u pull

but rekon u could get that high

[strong forum]

well yeah first pull is turbo pull

did like 6mil there

[jagged pier]

u do what 3-4 packs up stairs

its always a perma 2-3 pack pulls

but rip we might not even get that next patch

[long berry]

im playing dwarf prot warrior and i like the idea of having the capabilty to one day join of of the big big guilds that are pushing the highest content available.

looking around, it looks like area52 is the realm to play on - but its mainly horde dominated. does playing alliance on area52 make sense? how do i even apply to horde guilds as an alliance player?

should i instead play on something like stormrage thats mainly alliance dominated?

[jagged pier]

faction and server does not matter anymore

[urban portal]

theres cross faction raiding

[jagged pier]

as guilds are cross server

and cross faction

[urban portal]

90% of key pushers these days are alliance

[fleet flicker]

I think we did something like this

[vital pollen]

Reading over the prot changes, they don't look crippling to me. Am I missing something?

[jagged pier]

yes

[long berry]

oooh interseting! so is there any cons of playing alliance on area52? ive read something about crafting and crafting orders but there are workarounds?

[brittle owl]

prob missing the point

[jagged pier]

crafting but in a guild that doesnt matter so

[humble mason]

I kinda feel like the new ring is okay for damage if you are haste capped, but trash for durability, am I off the mark?

[vital pollen]

Anyone mind giving me a short version of why they think it's super impactful?

[jagged pier]

it will be good at max. its garbo right now

[jagged pier]

do u like rage?

[long berry]

oh can you explain that? why does it not matter in a guild? kinda new to the game

[humble mason]

I figured.

[jagged pier]

cause guild orders are a thing so u arent pigeoned wholed into the server for crafting

[vital pollen]

Sure but super hand-wavey it looks like rage generation will go down by some small %. Let's say it's 10%. Do you think it's way more than that?

[fleet flicker]

because in a guild you just have your guildies craft regardless of faction

[long berry]

oooh i see! tyty

[jagged pier]

thats like all our rage gen talents

[brittle owl]

10% is not a small amount

[jagged pier]

and reduced SS procs

is a massive amount

[knotty idol]

Everybody get your tank alts ready for next tier

[jagged pier]

and thats also less rage for AM

so less SWs

[strong forum]

its the SS proc chance reduction that hurts tons

[jagged pier]

in total

[strong forum]

which will all draw a very long rat tail

[jagged pier]

less avatars in total

[strong forum]

less CDs cuz of less rage, less outburst cuz of less rage, thus less damage

its a LONG fucking tail

[brittle owl]

[strong forum]

like my brainnapkin math puts it at a 15-20% ST dmg nerf

[vital pollen]

Word fair. I'm not like, doubtful of you guys, I just don't have the theorycraft intuition to really understand the full impact, hence wanting some more input.

[strong forum]

stg if we got this nerf right now

we'd lose like 100k+ ST dps

[vital pollen]

Welp maybe I should start planning to play fury in s2 lol

[brittle owl]

are you a coward

you talk like a coward

[fleet flicker]

play what you think is fun

[knotty idol]

"Developers’ notes: We feel that Warriors are in a good place overall, however, there are a few places we’d like to make improvements to each spec, and to the class as a whole." It must be opposite day

[fleet flicker]

besides with current tunings and such it's looking like an arms tier

[brittle owl]

maybe you should start healing, just a suggestion

[jagged pier]

we are in a good place. if we get these changes we no longer will be

[tardy abyss]

...you must have not read the arms tier bonus

[vital pollen]

I used to do KSH with MW every few seasons. Tried it this season, it was the least fun I've ever had in M+ full stop.

[knotty idol]

I agree we're in a good place, prot feels great but stating the goal as wanting to improve the spec then gutting prot is so insane

[vital pollen]

It seems strange considering we're not even the super meta tank anymore

[knotty idol]

I'd feel better if they didn't state their intentions lmao

[vital pollen]

Lemme guess, prot pally buffs

[fleet flicker]

explain to me why you believe that the tier set makes arms look bad

[tardy abyss]

Because why would arms want to spam OP?

Especially after the nerfs to OP

[strong forum]

well theyre buffing OP

or well every button

you play a more OP centric playstyle again like early season

maybe battlelord

[tardy abyss]

Most in #arms want juicy MS and executes

[strong forum]

OP already this season crit almost as much as MS before buffs

yes ofc

ofc we do

but arms isnt eating BAD

[tardy abyss]

Spamming OP is meh

[fleet flicker]

regardless of what they want we're talking about what's better in terms of numbers

[strong forum]

MS can still crit for 6mil+ next patch

it already crits for 4.5mil++

[tardy abyss]

ye

[strong forum]

everything is getting buffed by 15%

arms is gonna be fine

prot however is bleak xd

and fury can eat shit idc whats up with them

[tardy abyss]

I think I would rather play Fury than Arms with that tier bonus

ngl

But lets see what they do, surely they will change a lot of stuff

Im preparing a ppal for next season anyway

[jagged pier]

[pallid quiver]

I think it sounds like Fury will be fine enough

Comparatively conpared to Prot, at least. Fury's still suffering from getting slapped for normal raid and heroic dungeon tuning

[tardy abyss]

[craggy harness]

just think of it like scrooge. warrior dev will wake up after facing the ghosts of tank's past, present and future -- and have a change of heart

[pallid quiver]

Also, Blizz doesn't think you should have juicy executes, because that's a shitty filler ability that should do no damage

[strong forum]

he thinks warri has a dev

[pallid quiver]

I think we had a dev

[strong forum]

we had an intern

[pallid quiver]

And then they retired or left

[urban bane]

[spiral jetty]

we have devestator

[pallid quiver]

And then we had an intern, and then they got shouted out

And now we have some dude pulling double duty and they're just taking doodie on Prot War because they're mad about more work for extra pay

[craggy harness]

look, "war dev" could just be words printed on a hat rather than a job title

let my joke work 😦

lol

[pallid quiver]

i'm more vitriolic than i was yesterday because i woke up

And realized I'm even more pissed than I was originally.

It's still not the tuning I'm mad about; brother, the absolute fuck is that reasoning they gave

[urban bane]

right?

[pallid quiver]

Please tell me they're lying to us; I'd prefer that so much

The Cossus change just absolutely drives me up the wall

[jagged pier]

i mean its just dead for prot now

hope u didnt enjoy it

[pallid quiver]

What do you mean the ability that has a conditional for its activation, and is made to dump as much resources as possible, isn't mean to be a main hard hitting ability?

What the fuck is a spender like that supposed to do, Blizz, stroke your ass at the cost of damage?

I almost wish they just removed Execute if they're going to fluff around with it like this; whoever is designing things clearly doesn't know what to do with it, or doesn't like it, or something

Just commit to the design space in one way or another

[vagrant echo]

Ppal gets all the glory because half the player base are freaking paladins, go complain on the forums about the prot warrior change

[pallid quiver]

I mean I just won't play

[urban bane]

just even looking at the text is confounding

[smoky anvil]

Based

Typeshit for the zoomers

[strong forum]

we still use MS on CD mostly

BUT HEY

especially as colossus

BUT HEY

lets nerf the hero trees ST which is already distinctly worse on ST!

[jagged pier]

the monkey tried his best okay

[urban portal]

its a very band aid fix to arms spamming execute

because it doesnt solve slayers problem

[jagged pier]

cause i dont think we even have an intern we just have a monkey sat at a keyboard

[strong forum]

it solves nothing

just makes colossus worse than it already was

[humble mason]

I feel like if they just gave colossus more rage gen it would be fine, but I dunno if that would trivialize MK or not

[strong forum]

colossus does indeed need more rage gen

[obsidian girder]

We got mortal strike as tank, woah

[strong forum]

i wish bro

give me sweeping strikes

[obsidian girder]

Die by the sword is a nice tank cd

🦄

[strong forum]

would also be pretty nice

[wicked pollen]

wish prot got unhinged

ravager casts ss

[hardy snow]

just throw away all these 11.1 changes and replace ravager with banner

[wicked pollen]

[strong forum]

yes

[obsidian girder]

Replace ravager with tankstorm

[obsidian girder]

Oh boy

[dusty umbra]

Apparently "Avatar" got removed

[hardy snow]

no it didn't

[obsidian girder]

How about stance dance to access abilities

[strong forum]

my guy

[hardy snow]

its just "datamined" bullshit from wowhead, none of these matters mostly, they post it after each dev notes

[strong forum]

thats datamines

[hardy snow]

for actual changes go to dev notes

[strong forum]

thats just that specific spellID of avatar is gone as they remade the talent tree

and put a diff avatar SpellID in its new place

[high wyvern]

Wait what they removed avatar?

Huh

[dusty umbra]

Ah

[high wyvern]

Can you link the patch note please

[wicked pollen]

reading too hard challenge

[dusty umbra]

Don't gotta be toxic :)

[strong forum]

rule of thumb when reading datamines

[hardy snow]

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/undermined-development-notes/553974/1

[high wyvern]

Ty

[strong forum]

if they seem outrageous or you cant full comphrehend them, youre safe to ignore them if that "change" didnt appear on the patch notes

[wicked pollen]

or just outright ignore datamines

and wait till official

[high wyvern]

Arms Warriors should always feel good about using Mortal Strike when it’s available, so we’re moving damage from the Overpower buff into Mortal Strike and Cleave baseline to open up more rotational and build options

Oh this is good

[heavy sparrow]

MS damage reduced from 30% to 15%

So more mortal strikes required lmao

[wicked pollen]

???

[hardy snow]

its OP buff to MS being reduced, base dmg is increased

[wicked pollen]

you did not read that correctly

[mighty valley]

they should make you get a license before you're allowed to read the raw datamine output

[hardy snow]

they should not post such bullshit without proper explanation, but clicks are clicks 🤷‍♂️

[mighty valley]

wowhead shouldn't? yeah it'd probably be better for everyone if they just pulled out the interesting changes that aren't documented anywhere

rather than always have people yelling MY SPEC DELETED???

but that's effort. to get less clicks

[heavy sparrow]

I'm still on my written permit

[undone beacon]

fuck it its guardian druid time

no more prot until banner

[mighty valley]

everyone thinks they liked banner when they mostly just liked 24% bonus strength

the uptime game was fun since you had to maximize reprisal to keep banner running, these days it'd just be a trivial massive strength buff

well. maybe not if these patch notes go live lol

[raw parcel]

Think those spec-murdering changes are actually going to go live for us?

[shrewd grove]

They have before

They will again

Gearing up my prot pally today boys. Time to be Blizzards favorite child

[mighty valley]

hopefully we get some eloquent explanations of the problems when the official feedback thread goes up

the ones people are posting now don't really get it

[raw parcel]

Kinda depressing that they do this when PWarrior was in a very good spot. I hated this season's dungeons, but loved Prot so much I tolerated them anyway.

[mighty valley]

and spend way too much time getting baited by prot paladins lmao

[raw parcel]

Where will the official feedback thread be? It should be linked here so we can all go and make sure they know this is a really bad idea.

[shrewd grove]

Honestly, as bad as these changes are, at least we're not Brewmaster. It's wild that they got 0 changes unless Blizz is planning a rework

[raw parcel]

The difference is that people actually PLAY our spec. No one plays Brewmaster.

But yes, they are in bad shape.

[high wyvern]

How bad of a rage nerf is this

20%?

[raw parcel]

Spec destroying.

[shrewd grove]

Brother, no one plays Brew because it's in bad shape lol

[high wyvern]

Wasnt the feedback is that Prot warr Thane feels good right now

[mighty valley]

i think we should play it before using hyperbolic language, blizzard is used to tuning out people who see a 5% dps reduction and say "my spec is dead"

[raw parcel]

Doesn't just kill our defense (running counter to their stated goal), but also stops us from being able to cycle rage effectively to reduce the cooldown of Avatar. Trash changes, 0/10, should be scrapped entirely.

[high wyvern]

Why nerf it

[jagged gust]

Self fulfilling prophecy

[waxen cradle]

They almost certainly in my opinion pushed this blue post out before Christmas with the intent for us to stew on it throughout Christmas, and the New Year. It also feels like that did so with the intent to give Prot Warriors the big middle finger for the holidays. It's like... " SO you guys enjoying your holidays...? WELL go suck on this HAHAHA!! See you in a few weeks new pally players HAHAHA "

[shut summit]

these are the type of changes that should be accompanied with talent tree rework, just dropping them casually like this is silly

[zealous narwhal]

Bruh i got 3 prot warrs ! i don't like playing any other tanks especially the illuminated avenger shield thrower bullcrap which i'm sick of being overtuned every single god damn expansion patch.And now , pala is left untouched while they think ..."THEY THINK !" what an overstatement that prot warr has too much rage to spend? based on IP? WHAT? does any of the fail devs play or ever played prot warr? srsly? what a joke

[mighty valley]

yeah. i'm not against their stated intent, this just doesn't accomplish them AND is a big power hit

it's a bigger problem to solve than they seem to think

[raw parcel]

Blizzard has a habit of being like "We see this problem. We want to fix this problem. Here are things unrelated to that problem that either don't address it or actively make it much worse."

This is an example of that.

[jagged gust]

Fury 3 nerfs deep Archi was still saying "everything is fine, don't worry" in pretty sure the answer is very clearly make some noise, otherwise it sticks.

[mighty valley]

i'd be interested in hearing what they think a better rage spending model looks like - do they want us to sit on rage for a while and press IP for big damage moments...?

[raw parcel]

Noted. We need to make noise.

[mighty valley]

you can make some noise while sounding intelligent

[raw parcel]

I intend to. I didn't mean making noise as in just yelling profanity. I mean it should be outlined why these changes are terrible and do nothing to address their stated design goals.

[jagged gust]

Make some noise (Canadianly)

[waxen cradle]

In all seriousness I can and will say if these changes go live then any actual integrity or suggestion of there having learned from past mistakes goes out the window.

[harsh trellis]

I feel like the developers have intent on nerfing our "Whatever they want to nerf" then..... right before release.... They will still nerf what they wanted to nerf and then pull back on the other changes.

its a flashbang post

[smoky anvil]

It’s Bilzarion, they gonna say, “we listen, trust me bro” then hit use with the good ol, “you think you do, but you don’t”. They’ll kill prot warrior and leave it dead until late last season, by which time the class pop will have tanked (heh) with people quitting or rerolling.

Throw in some random shit about the data they have shown by something but realizing people acting want a different thing and having a hard time reconciling that based off their arbitrary numbers

[jagged gust]

Ah yes, the classic s4 overcompensation buff

[tribal wharf]

pinch me and tell me to wake up

[smoky anvil]

And as I’ve said, when they try to address our concerns, we’ll get like +10% more to ignore pain

[tribal wharf]

that i have been sleeping

in a horrible nighmare

[smoky anvil]

I’d love the tierset if we still got rage off shield charge. It’d be bust worthy.

[tribal wharf]

so, sw is now avatar and am for sc?

and no more timer for keys i guess i heard?

[waxen cradle]

As far as I am concerned they lost any and all credibility a LONG time ago so this is just more of the same. Someone has to be the low man on the totem pole and yet again it seems it will be us. Blizzard feels any tank class could be a warrior but do it in a slightly different way. To them we are the epitome of the generic tank so they use that excuse to drop steamy piles of poop on us.

[harsh trellis]

At first I didnt like this set... but ... that blue is pretty nice

[tribal wharf]

it was just the fact that the sw gives dmg, which, its the best DR in the game besides bubble

[smoky anvil]

In Blizzard’s defense they’ve been taking large, steamy poops on brew this whole xpac. They’ve just decided to enter our stall.

[tribal wharf]

and then, warrior with mid armor and hes like, doin the like, fake like ya, cool! thumbs up pose

i was like .... oh no...

actually the shoulders helmet are great

[harsh trellis]

reminds me of the world ender in Thor

[tribal wharf]

i just prefer a t-pose or at rest post or combat pose for screenshots by the devs like this

+50% ss crit rate huh....

ah yes, and priests get insurance too

[cyan bronze]

Is great for colossus

[waxen cradle]

Like I said stew on it until the holidays are over because our chances of hearing or seeing anything else in regards to these aforementioned changes before the holidays are over is 0/0. It really was a big raspberry from Blizzard before they went on vacation for the holidays.

[tribal wharf]

so, how does it work with keys now that there isnt timer

something about dying

so, what about the trash %

and depletes

[cyan bronze]

where are you even getting this information

because that’s not a thing

[tribal wharf]

i think i heard it on pirate

season 2?

[cyan bronze]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/season-2-mythic-changes-new-and-reworked-affixes-new-achievement-for-no-depletes-355135?utm_source=discord-webhook

there are these changes

[tribal wharf]

i believe thats what i heard from that stream and that was the only time i heard it and it was today, so. im not sure

[cyan bronze]

there was a poll asking about the possibility of a no timer m+

[shrewd grove]

That's from a survey they put out ASKING people how they'd feel about no timer. They haven't changed a thing yet

[cyan bronze]

you are jumping wildly to conclusions

and asking about the results of those conclusions

[mighty valley]

yogi moment

[cyan bronze]

without ever asking about the conclusions or the jumps

please cease for a moment

[tribal wharf]

so, 12+ isnt deplete, okay

[cyan bronze]

it’s ambiguous

[mighty valley]

once you have the achievement

[cyan bronze]

again

[lone hemlock]

what are you smoking.

[tribal wharf]

or under, 12 it sounds like, way the worded it im processing that link

[cyan bronze]

speaking empirically

no

[cyan bronze]

ye agreed

[shrewd grove]

Yall are right. If Brew was a strong spec with competitive survivability and DPS no one would play it still lmao. What are yall even talking about

[cyan bronze]

I believe brew has more very top end keys than warrior?

[tribal wharf]

i think double the timer, and its only if you spend 84 minutes of whats supposed to be a 42 minute dungeon, then you deplete

[cyan bronze]

can check again

[tribal wharf]

i think more than an hour in a keystone is outright fail in any circumstance

[shrewd grove]

You're right. Clearly. Lmao

[tribal wharf]

like if its supposed to be 30 minute key like mists its 60 minutes after 60 minute kicks you out

[cyan bronze]

I mean

brew has more 18s timed than warrior

so clearly brew can do keys

[shrewd grove]

Never said it couldn't. I said them not getting a single patch note is a joke

[cyan bronze]

I mean

empirically speaking

brew is stronger than a lot of other tanks

[shrewd grove]

Empirically speaking it's the least represented tank in M+ overall. By a pretty wide margin

For a reason

[cyan bronze]

at the highest end, it’s completed harder keys than bdk, vdh, and warrior

so it’s clearly not as bad as you’re saying

“Yall are right. If Brew was a strong spec with competitive survivability and DPS no one would play it still lmao. What are yall even talking about”

i agree it’s silly they didn’t get patch notes

but a low play rate isn’t to be conflated with lower strength

[shrewd grove]

It does indicate there's something wrong with the class from a gameplay perspective typically. It means people don't want to play it for one reason or another. So not trying to fix that is goofy. That's all I said

But go off

[cyan bronze]

from a gameplay perspective

sure

but that’s not what you said

but go off

you said, and i once again quote

[shrewd grove]

I said it's "in a bad place"

[cyan bronze]

“Yall are right. If Brew was a strong spec with competitive survivability and DPS no one would play it still lmao. What are yall even talking about”

if brew was a strong spec with competitive survivability and DPS

it is

Its gameplay issues are independent of its strengths

warrior is less represented in the highest keys

yet got hit with a massive nerf

would you rather that?

[shrewd grove]

It's not for the vast majority of the playerbase due to the button bloat and the difficulty of the rotation to accomplish what other tanks do more easily

[cyan bronze]

button bloat very much got reduced with 11.0

[final jackal]

I mean you could argue that this is due to outliers. Potentially influenced by the best Brew players being better than the best Prot Warriors

[grizzled nova]

bdk is button bloat king rn

[cyan bronze]

could be

but brew can do the keys

[shrewd grove]

Anyway, I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you. I stand by my statement. Brew needs to be looked at and the fact that there are no patch notes for them is a joke. You can disagree all you want but I'm done talking to you lol. Just arguing to argue at this point

[cyan bronze]

it’s not “awful” like people are stating

[mighty valley]

monks typically have popularity problems unless they're clearly busted

[final jackal]

Yes agreed

[cyan bronze]

noooo raw data numbers show everything

[final jackal]

I have a feeling (and hope) that they’re just cooking up something larger for Brew

[cyan bronze]

also

this is only the first wave of patchnotes

and you’re raging in a discord of a class that got

gutted.

it read the room, frankly

[waxen cradle]

Are you really going to set around and argue who got shafted harder by Blizzard ? There cannot be a agreement that the changes that have been suggested for Prot Warriors is a a HUGE problem and will literally cripple the spec, and agree that Monks while in a playable state also have issues that need to very much be addressed ?

[mighty valley]

if a spec needs a major overhaul i'd rather they wait til an expansion

rather than... the attempt we're getting right now lol

[dusky canopy]

You can’t be the meta tank witch BSV as a capstone

[cyan bronze]

stronger tank getting nothing vs weaker tank getting nerfed

I would say

one is a pretty clear case

for who got shafted harder

[shrewd grove]

You would think lol. But I guess not. Apparently a single comment about how silly it is that Brew got no notes is "raging" lol

[cyan bronze]

like it’s pretty clear cut

ok fine I’ll cook some brew notes

rsk cd increased by 3 seconds

you got the prot war treatment

monk could be the meta tank and it would still have less than a 50% play rate

dunno what to tell you

i can go in the brew discord and ping Kate and ask them if the class is fine

but i already know Kate’s answer

so

[dusky canopy]

Monk seems to be one of the harder tanks to play at a very high level

That is most likely the reason for low population

[cyan bronze]

it’s also a unique resource

[grizzled nova]

The only important datapoint rn, is that the #1 brew has a higher rio than the #1 pwar.

[cyan bronze]

to all other tanks

[cyan bronze]

not saying that

[grizzled nova]

I'm saying this is conclusive evidence that brew is fine and pwar should be nerfed more.

[cyan bronze]

but I’m saying the claim that: “If Brew was a strong spec with competitive survivability and DPS no one would play it still lmao.“ is statistically, flat out wrong

[grizzled nova]

Blizzard is correct.

[cyan bronze]

people don’t play brewmaster cus people don’t want to play brew

idk why people play vdh, bdk, warrior outside of liking it; if they were strong specs with competitive survivability and damage maybe people would play them

[waxen cradle]

All I will say is Blizzard is pretty clearly learning nothing from past mistakes and obviously paying very little if any attention to there players as to whether or not they enjoy the design of there classes and/or specs in the game so the best you can hope for or expect is more of the same.

[cyan bronze]

you guys act like brewmaster having spec issues is unique to brewmaster

[grizzled nova]

I do think brew is mostly fine, it works well when played well, it's just has less intuitive mechanics than other tanks.

The actual actual problem with tanks is still that when things are balanced reasonably well for survivability and DPS, the only choice is ppala because they have a literal obscene amount of utility compared to everyone else.

[cyan bronze]

if you assume yourself to be correct, and brew does have massive issues, outshadowing other tanks, and they didn’t get any notes in the first wave of patches, isn’t that conducive to brew likely getting more changes than other tanks in the next set of notes

[cyan bronze]

Ding ding ding

[waxen cradle]

Maybe Blizzard will hear our out cries and revert many or all of these changes, and decide that now is the wrong time for such a huge and obviously damaging change to the spec, but I am not holding my breath.

[cyan bronze]

You go home today with the multi-million dollar prize for being objectively correct!

[cyan bronze]

it’ll be fine

we’ll be good again for the first have of 12.0

[dusky canopy]

The problem with tanks is blizzard entertainment

[obsidian girder]

Anyone knows why bdk is so unpopular these days ?

[cyan bronze]

and then ppal will get reworked

[cyan bronze]

it’s unique ass to play in keys

there’s a concept that idk the actual name of it

but u just can get popped on bdk

so easy

[dusky canopy]

Harder, keybind heavy

[obsidian girder]

Thought he is invincible

[cyan bronze]

its hard, keybind heavy also

but like

u can just get capped and sometimes it feels(potentially incorrectly) like there was nothing u could do about it

[obsidian girder]

Okay oO

[cyan bronze]

if you’ve ever died on gather and been frustrated, that’s kind of the issue on bdk

[dusky canopy]

It should be impossible for a DK to get 1banged

If that ever happens something is wrong

[cyan bronze]

idk that’s just what people who play bdk and are upset with the class have told me

I don’t play it a lot

[dusky canopy]

Right right I mean in general

[obsidian girder]

Yeah that's the picture I got in my mind, he could basically not die or is ultra hard to kill

[weak cedar]

what's the reason? beginner here

[cyan bronze]

honestly to me what bdk players seem upset about is their either unkillable

or it’s a coin flip (not actually, but in how it feels)

[cyan bronze]

oh I see what you mean

like you’re saying it can happen

but shouldn’t be a possibility if the world was good

[grizzled nova]

I mean you're half a GCD from death at all times, mistiming one death strike and you're cheating - you can't really mistime sb/ip.

[waxen cradle]

What I would love to see in all seriousness and as a massive joke in terms of there dev team, is they go ahead with these nerfs, push a vast majority of players to the pally tank, and then come back later on and say that Ppal is over performing and then nerf it. Following that they will just band aid buff the other tanks to make up for the lack of people playing the other tank specs. Which unironically is probably exactly what they will do.

[cyan bronze]

he’s more so saying

“it’s stupid bdk can get one banged, bdk shouldn’t ever be able to”

[grizzled nova]

Oh

yeah, but I don't know how they fix that, short of giving them permanent 80% parry again

[cyan bronze]

larger hp pool ig?

[dusky canopy]

Correct, by its design philosophy it should never be 1banged

[cyan bronze]

idk

[cyan bronze]

fwiw

[dusky canopy]

Except right now it can be

[cyan bronze]

vdh will see play next tier

it’s very tanky rn(11.1)

bear will see play

[grizzled nova]

Removing ds double dipping damage taken complicated the spec significantly as the content difficulty ramps up.

[cyan bronze]

because of symbiotic relationship and it’s pretty tanky

like

10% of a bears healing going into a squishy DPS

is insane

[dusky canopy]

Healing gems go brrrr

[grizzled nova]

You can't rely on an intuitive sense of damage taken to healing ratio anymore, you need to have a correct map of exactly how much damage you're going to be taken and when you can death strike safely without making a problem for yourself in the immediate future.

[cyan bronze]

especially when frenzied regen just got buffed pretty hard(reinvigoration should 1.5x it, plus the other effect)

i think other tanks kinda need more

or ppal needs less

[grizzled nova]

ppal needs less

[cyan bronze]

first, idk why avengers shield counts as a true interrupt

and mobs don’t recast

like

that’s silly

[grizzled nova]

unless they play on giving every tank a 5s cd kick, the only realistic solution is nerfing ppal

[dusky canopy]

Personally, I think ppals utility should be the bar for everyone else

[cyan bronze]

why is ppala currently the damage tank, the cc tank, group util tank, and the survivability tank(ig you can argue warrior but idk)

like ppal has too much of a complete kit compared to every other tank

which is to say, other tanks don’t really have a kit

most tanks barely have a defensive kit, it feels like

[grizzled nova]

yeah ppal has a monster kit all around, but the huge things it has is 1 minute sac and giga spam interrupts that also function as a quasi-grip because it silences

[cyan bronze]

spellward is nice too

circumstantially

[grizzled nova]

it's just too much, or blizzard really needs to go ham and make other tanks ability have monster utility to

[waxen cradle]

I will say that tanks tend to go through a trend of having there moment in the sun so to speak, but Blizzards golden child does seem to go back to pally's for one reason or another especially lately. Never been able to figure why, but there does seem to be a very heavy bias in there favor.

[grizzled nova]

Blizzard doesn't go back to pally, ilvl does, and once people figure out how to survive everything with ppala there's no reason not to use it.

[tight verge]

I'd say its pretty hard to compete with the "lucky" of getting meta once ur hit as tank. Prob meta uptime will go through the roof on s2

[grizzled nova]

1 minute sac from the tank is insanely valuable in high content, easing the amount of spam casts with infinity kicks is insanely valuable in high content, especially as pull size ramps up.

[cyan bronze]

Util toolkit

[cyan bronze]

Is this a metamorphosis joke

[pallid quiver]

ai is the exact thing that does that

[waxen cradle]

I will say that any time both Nome and Sense come on here and say its really bad, its just not a good sign. I will set my tank up for the forseable future however, but keep my old reliable by my desk. Can't live without it anymore.

[strange night]

Would strategist nerf destroy the flow of the spec ? I don't understand the reasoon behind this nerf

[wicked pollen]

they wrote a reason in the dev notes

[cyan bronze]

They didn’t like prot

[jagged gust]

We didn't even need a nerf to not be meta, but they decided they didn't want to leave it to chance.

[waxen cradle]

Hey if nothing else I have been playing other games as the late season boredom has heavily set in for me. Maybe this is a sign of its time for a break. They are pounding my preferred tank into obscurity maybe its time to go play something else for a while.

[grizzled nova]

"Too much rage" -> blizzard nerfed literally every single source of rage gen in the spec -> you know how you occasionally hit a dead GCD or two? that'll happen 33% more often now, to make sure you feel like your button presses are more "meaningful"

[shrewd grove]

I hear Marvel Rivals is pretty fun

[smoky anvil]

Gotta get a sense of pride and accomplishment for not paper tanking now

[grizzled nova]

No one was complaining about this, and no one asked for this, I don't even understand why a blizzard developer even put the time into making these changes to the spec.

Like what was the impetus at the office that lead to development time being used on "hmmm, prot warrior should be slower."

[waxen cradle]

Only thing that would make these nerfs more funny and pathetic is if they attached a one liner to it like that line from the original National Lampoons Vacation where Clark is conned into buying that shit green station wagon instead of his sports car. Except in this case change the wording a bit. This is your preferred Prot Warrior spec... You think you hate it now, but wait till you play it

[marble sun]

to much apm for casual, they must please the casual.

too much button to press with the mouse.

or its hard to the wrist pression button from 1 to 0 on keyboard 😢

[smoky anvil]

If you aren’t down with carpal tunnel why are you playing retail?

Cmon

[marble sun]

dont know

it was my goal since 2009 having my carpel tunnel, its like a trophy

[smoky anvil]

Besides, ain’t like there’s a plethora of ways to deal with issues that gaming can cause. #1 prolly being not using a gaming chair since they’re not ergonomic lmao.

[waxen cradle]

Wait wait wait... you guys play with your hands... I play with my feet.... My hands are usually busy

[marble sun]

playing with your dick is part of the gameplay too

[smoky anvil]

The chad foot pedaling hog cranker vs the virgin carpal tunnel keyboarder

[jagged gust]

never have I been prouder of this channel to read this sentence

[smoky anvil]

You merely adopted the shit post. I was born in it. Molded by it. I didn’t escape Fight Club until I was already a man, and by then it was nothing to me but sod slop.

[waxen cradle]

I know huh it kind of makes ya misty eyed

[torpid fiber]

hey chat, how cooked are we?

[jagged gust]

https://tenor.com/view/gert-samson-gert-samson-cook-burned-food-gif-17488858

[jagged pier]

https://tenor.com/view/tiktok-pizza-burnt-cooking-fail-top-chef-gif-25847959

[torpid fiber]

honestly its my bad. nerfs were announced the day after i decided to pick up my prot warr again

[rough gate]

Anyone got a list of changes

Like a link

[torpid fiber]

just go to wowhead and scroll for half a second

[jagged gust]

front page of wowhead should have em, no ones posted em in the updates channel yet

[torpid fiber]

you couldve found them with the same effort as asking for a link lol

[rough gate]

Thanks

[rough gate]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-ackchyually-actually-gif-11156171

[rough gate]

Could have linked what you were already reading in the time it took you to type that

Head ass

[rose karma]

I get that blizz wants to limit rage dumping into IP but the fallout from that will be rough.

Nerfing shield slam procs hurts my soul

[torpid fiber]

They were posted yesterday. Why would I still be reading them? lol

[rough gate]

Less spamming of ignore pain and revenge would be my guess

Well not even spam of revenge just essentially minimal usage of it

[rose karma]

Ya but think of the DPS loss from less shield slam and our cdr on avatar is going bye bye.

[torpid fiber]

Your* choice to ask for a link instead of just going to one of the many websites they would be posted on is just such an odd choice

[rough gate]

They buffed threat on tanks so that won’t be an issue just means dps will have to pick up the slack in a way

[rough gate]

https://tenor.com/view/i'm-gonna-be-a-winner-today-matty-matheson-cookin'-somethin'-late-night-2-instant-noodle-i'm-destined-for-success-today-gif-16761337745015382829

[rose karma]

That's a boring answer why would you want to have less.

[rough gate]

Bc multi dollar blizzard said so

[strange night]

Isn't the spammy playstyle one of the reason we all love this spec in the first place ? Why would we want lees of wht we like ? What's the reasoning behind this ?

So confused right now

[rough gate]

Maybe someone with power wants it to move in a different direction who knows

[rose karma]

I love the spammy play style of prot.

This is gonna be sad af

[rough gate]

Might create a lower skill floor and higher skill cap

Which in video games is always a good thing but casuals hate it

[waxen cradle]

Oh someone with power almost certainly wants to move it in a different direction, but this type of change is not something you do in the middle of a expansion. It's a rework for a alpha/beta build to try out and see if it will work.

[rough gate]

I get what you’re saying but season 1 and season 2 can be completely different

[chilly brook]

CAP

[rough gate]

They’ve had since late august to figure shit out

[chilly brook]

We've had several specs get very good reworks mid expansion

This just ain't one

[rough gate]

Just bc you’re good now doesn’t mean you’re good next season it created parity in video games with classes and roles

Is what it is

[strange night]

I get the playstyle change, but we'd surely be spending way more time waiting for a shieldslam proc than we do now, and waiting as you're getting wrecked isn't fun, spammy or not

That type of change could require the addition of another rotationnal ability

[rough gate]

Tier set bonus covers that

In my opinion you can disagree slamming your face in the keyboard with no clue what you’re hitting and spamming shit shouldn’t be rewarded

[chilly brook]

Is that what I’m doing now?

[rough gate]

If you waste rage on overcapping ignore pain

This change just forces you to be more precise and consistent

[chilly brook]

That’s not the only thing it does lmao

[rough gate]

We’re absolutely swimming in rage atm

[chilly brook]

It’s just a bad change

No we’re not

[rough gate]

Yes

[chilly brook]

You’re only swimming in rage if you’re bad at spending it

The best players have very little rage wasted

[rough gate]

I stopped at +12s call me shitty then I don’t view myself as a top player

Some of these changes affect the top 1%

[chilly brook]

Like we’re talking less than 100 rage wasted

[chilly brook]

They affect everyone

It’s just a net nerf

[rough gate]

If you waste less than 100 rage per key I best be seeing you in mdi bubba

[chilly brook]

There is hardly any offset

We got a shield wall CD reduction and an IP buff

But congrats you have less shield slams and less avatars which means less Demoralizing Shouts

All of this feeds into itself

It’s just a net nerf

[tardy abyss]

These weapon designs are so good holy

[chilly brook]

No damage buffs to actually offset having less of these btw

[rough gate]

Idk what you want people to say just fucking play the spec or don’t we’re just trying to rationalize it and you come in bitching 🤷🏻‍♂️

[chilly brook]

Less rage to actually IP

[chilly brook]

Why would you try to rationalize bad changes

[rough gate]

Because classes aren’t supposed be the best all the time

[chilly brook]

If you actually look at the changes critically they are not good and they do not actually fix the problems

[rough gate]

And classes aren’t supposed to be shitty all the time

Nothing will ever be perfect

When you bring one down to bring one up people complain

Is what it is

[chilly brook]

I didn’t ask for it to be perfect

[rough gate]

Yes you are you’re asking for no change

[chilly brook]

I just don’t want it to be needlessly worse by bad changes

[chilly brook]

Prot warrior is far from perfect as is

There are so many other things I could/would ask for in order to get that

I’m just asking for the class to not get changes that are actively bad for it

[tardy abyss]

Pwar will be unplayable lol

There was just no need to to nerf a spec that was mid at best

[chilly brook]

It wont be that far lol

Unplayable is a bit sensationalized

[tardy abyss]

High end? Absolutely

Keys until +12 will be whatever mostly, altho harder

[rough gate]

Are you joking before the prot pally giga buff they were hands down the best m+ tank

It wasn’t close

[chilly brook]

What giga buff?

Lmfao

[tardy abyss]

Thats because the other options were worse lmao

[chilly brook]

Spoiler for you, prot paladin didn’t get giga buffed

[rough gate]

You you’re saying prot pal wasn’t a paper tank and now they’re a tank in every top 100 key with no changes at all

[chilly brook]

They didn’t significantly change

[tardy abyss]

People getting more gear changed a lot

Pal is only good with disc

But rsham was the only spec with enough throughput

Until discs got gear

[chilly brook]

They did get some changes but nothing major

[tardy abyss]

And scaling went stonks

[chilly brook]

You can literally read the post from their theorycrafter about the changes they received

Or go to their discord

And look at the post history regarding the 11.0.5 changes

[tardy abyss]

But this anyway

Pwar wasnt nerfed much and almost nobody played it after ppal got popular

[chilly brook]

Prot pally did the same thing in S1 of DF btw

All that really changed is they got a bit more coverage on their CDs but they’re still just as squishy as they were pre anniversary patch

And I guess some damage buffs

[jagged gust]

moment

[urban bane]

Make way, too many words

[chilly brook]

People genuinely don’t understand tank meta smh

[strange night]

In my case there is not meta thing i just don't want to be standing in front of my keyboard becasue the shieldslam does not reset as often

[waxen cradle]

I know we don't agree on the timing of the changes as I feel the timeframe they chose to suggest these changes is certainly anything but optimal, but I would hope most can agree the way they are going about them is absolute garbage. We "currently" function on a feedback loop, we generate rage, spend said rage, and doing so allows abilities to come off of cooldown faster which benefit us offensively, and defensively, and overall plays out as maybe a not "perfectly" ideal scenario for all, but feels good for most. Sure there are naysayers, but someone will always complain there is no fixing that. All of that being said there is NO WAY these changes benefit our current playstyle in a positive way. To compensate these changes they literally took 30 secs off of SW, and buffed the per cast amount of each IP, BUT did not buff the total cap on IP which is beyond stupid because now we will be able to use IP far far less. So without significant other passes this pass going live (which I highly doubt btw ) would be a HUGE nerf to all Prot Warriors.

[urban bane]

exactly they don't even impact us in a neutral way which is their stated goal

Textbook blizzard ChatGPT dev moment

[rough gate]

https://tenor.com/view/bowing-thank-you-tom-and-jerry-take-a-bow-chasing-gif-16306244066707271532

[torpid fiber]

this guy gives strong "i just figured out how to link gifs" vibes

[rough gate]

You give out bitchy vibes

All you’ve done is bitch

Get over it

[torpid fiber]

cause i called you out for being lazy and/or too dumb to google? got it lol

[shrewd grove]

https://tenor.com/view/broad-city-ilana-wexler-so-true-facts-true-gif-2454067126048901276

[rough gate]

Sure but coming at someone sideways for it is toxic asf which is filled in the wow community whenever someone asks a simple question instead of saying dumb shit like “in the time that it took you to type that message” bullshit say “just go on wowhead”

You think I didn’t google “wow tww upcoming class changes” beforehand and got nothing youre mistaken

[gentle violet]

I’m late to the party on Prot Warrior changes but I wanted to share my thoughts. I recently posted this on X so if you guys agree, maybe give it a like or re-post.

https://x.com/topicxtv/status/1870213116350628113?s=46

Topicx (@TopicxTV) on X

Frustrated Prot Warrior Here!
@WarcraftDevs - I read the class changes notes and don’t understand some of the changes you made to Prot Warrior. This is coming from a 3214 main. I’m not pushing R1 content but I can surely give you some good feedback. See posts below.

Twitter · Dec 20, 2024, 9:02 PM

[torpid fiber]

are you not able to read? or are you not able to click "last 24 hours" on google? lol

[rough gate]

You’re just plain ignorant

[shy fractal]

Wait I just saw the data mined changes to prot. Are we losing Avatar?

[shrewd grove]

No

[jagged gust]

avatar uptime

[shrewd grove]

Don't look at data mined changes just check patch notes

[torpid fiber]

for real. go google that exact phrase again and click sort by last 24 hours and you will find an entire first page of links to websites with them lol

[urban portal]

i love datamine readers

[rough gate]

See people are asking questions @torpid fiber

Get attem boyo

Stay toxic

[waxen cradle]

A ton of less rage which will result in less avatar, which the loss of rage will have a trickle down effect on everything else

[shrewd grove]

Just ignore and move on. No one cares about your lovers' spat and you're both just clogging up the chat with dumb shit

[chilly brook]

Don’t even know what you’re on about, I just said they’re not good changes and you’re sitting here licking blizzards toes over them

[torpid fiber]

are you seriously unable to tell the difference between other questions and yours? terrifying lack of reading comprehension

[chilly brook]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[shrewd grove]

Take it to DMs or block. But quit bitching here

[gentle violet]

Whoever the moderators are here, chat needs to be reeled back in lol. My first time messaging in here in months. Not a good first sight.

[waxen cradle]

Both Nome and Sense both came on here and said they were seriously major nerfs, so if you disagree well that's you take on it and that's fine but come up with a better rebuttle than No your wrong and bitching

[rough gate]

Oh didn’t know I could ignore them by blocking my apologies everyone

[shrewd grove]

Your first time messaging in months was plugging your Twitter? Lol

[rough gate]

I just asked about changes and was met w ignorance

[chilly brook]

There is nothing going on here that is actively against the rules

[vital pollen]

Honest question here, like no sarcasm: Are the top warrs really doing whole keys with less than 100 rage wasted total? Or just on IP overcapping? Either way that's incredible, but <100 rage wasted overall is just unbelievable.

[chilly brook]

????

[jagged pier]

we just dont know they dont log their runs

[chilly brook]

Bro says this will increase skill ceiling and says we met him with ignorance

[torpid fiber]

Ya i didnt realize you could message someone by clicking message either. The word doing the same thing that it means really confused me /s

[torpid fiber]

like what? lol

[chilly brook]

Probably not, tbh but in raid absolutely

[small steeple]

With the prot changes and tier set coming, (the numbers are definetly not final so up in the air), what's the general consensus on it? Nerf overall right? What about the hero tree balance? Any thoughts on thow that will change?

[tardy abyss]

Wasting less than 100 rage is not hard anyway

Unless you have your ui disabled

lmao

[jagged pier]

nerf in all 3 senses

[cyan bronze]

jakey

what do you think the rough strength of 2pc on tanks will be

[jagged pier]

less fun
less damage
less survibility

[cyan bronze]

idk why but I feel like it’s going to proc a lot

[jagged pier]

garabge

[vital pollen]

Just to be sure - we're talking about overcapping as waste right? Like I'm at 100 rage and I shield slam - that's wasted rage.

[cyan bronze]

as a way to just lower tanks dtps

[waxen cradle]

It will almost certainly increase the skill ceiling and if you at all enjoy how the spec plays now and these changes go live as is I would prepare to have that feeling change.

[cyan bronze]

as everyone complained about it this season

[jagged pier]

from what the TCs are saying its likely to be a .5 ppm or somthing

[gentle violet]

Was simply sharing thoughts rather than copying and pasting my giant post here in chat. Nothing else.

[cyan bronze]

but I could also see it being worthless

[cyan bronze]

No way

[jagged pier]

i havent really followed it

[urban portal]

its possible

[cyan bronze]

I hope it’s op in keys

[urban portal]

but people still waste a lot

[jagged pier]

but they cant have it not on a ppm

[tardy abyss]

yes

[cyan bronze]

Ye that’s what I’m hoping for rly

[urban portal]

17 arakara

[cyan bronze]

So like it’s bad on bosses

But in keys

[jagged pier]

cause then it will just be giga busted in keys

[chilly brook]

Wdym, the changes as proposed do not increase the ceiling

[cyan bronze]

On big pulls

U proc it a lot

[pallid quiver]

It would have been funny

[vital pollen]

Aight I must need to revisit my habits then, cause I overcap a ton in big pulls.

[pallid quiver]

But they hate funny, because they are a professional, upstanding business

[urban portal]

also you dont wanna look at the raw number

look at %

even top players cap

[jagged pier]

thats horrendous

[waxen cradle]

@chilly brook Blizzard said there idea was make us choose when we use rage more than now as we simply spam it into IP now. There words not mine

[urban portal]

this is just the top arakara log i found

[gentle violet]

Yes it does because rage regeneration is less and slower so your decision on spending rage on offense or mitigation is more meaningful.

[cyan bronze]

I mean

[pallid quiver]

Smh, but what about Jakey, he doesn't cap

it's a lot easier to avoid overcapping in ST for the record

[jagged pier]

yer not u dont have the rage to make a choice

[chilly brook]

All we can hope is that they actually listen to the feedback

[cyan bronze]

We thought vdh s3 tierset was gonna be ppm

[jagged pier]

it will be IP

[cyan bronze]

And it was just not

And it was giga busted

So I could possibly see it

[chilly brook]

The choice is the exact same

[hardy snow]

I dont know how big is diff in capping rage at higher keys, but at my weekly 10s im wasting ~80 per key so I guess im fine

[cyan bronze]

It would also mean tanks want to pull small trash into hard bosses

[tardy abyss]

We never spend it on offense...?

[cyan bronze]

So they get perma uptime on CDs

[jagged pier]

there shouldnt be any

[jagged pier]

if anything in higher keys u should be spending mroe

[urban portal]

about 300 wasted

[waxen cradle]

But yeah I get the other side of it too, I just meant more the excuse they are using not how it will actually play out

[gentle violet]

Revenge and Execute costs rage .

[jagged pier]

cause IP will get eaten more

[tardy abyss]

We only use Revenge to fish for SS procs, Execute if we REALLY have rage to spend

But thats not common

[jagged pier]

in raid it is

[pallid quiver]

We choose to spend rage based on how to generate the most rage

This does nothing for the ceiling

[chilly brook]

Exactly

[jagged pier]

or what does the most damage

but that also works the same

[chilly brook]

It will play the same just worse and potentially easier to not overcap

[jagged pier]

its gunna be giga slow

[chilly brook]

There is no skill ceiling increase with these changes

[pallid quiver]

And this, we do(did) have rage for executes unless you wya oversend. That was about the only skill expression beyond failing the skill floor of the class

[waxen cradle]

Of course we will have less rage which will mean we will have less choice as to where we spend it, but if you go off of there wording that is there intent. Its wrong but that's there intent. I chose my wording poorly

[chilly brook]

I know what their intent is

The intent doesn’t match the changes

[pallid quiver]

I'm just becoming uncreasingly convinced that they're doing anything to keep tanks played by people, based off early tank uster changes

[strong forum]

ive updated the pin to be a bit more reasonable

[vital pollen]

Is uncreasingly the opposite of increasingly?

[pallid quiver]

Like half of those you could still live in the keys most people are doing as long as you are pressing literally any buttons at all and look at the mobe

[jagged pier]

no they are trying to make them more appealing so more ppl play them, yet have failed

[vital pollen]

I know it's a typo but I'ma steal that

[gentle violet]

Since we have less rage to work with, you will need to more closely watch you’re ignore pain absorb to make sure you’re not spending too much on offense and making sure to keep a large ignore pain up. IDK maybe this only matters in high keys, keeping a huge ignore pain up.

[jagged pier]

again

[tardy herald]

You never ever weave in revenge? I find that odd.

[chilly brook]

Maybe they should just admit that DF tanks were basically a perfect spot for tank strength

[jagged pier]

overcapping IP literally still wont matter

[chilly brook]

Only if I don’t have anything else to press

[strong forum]

this patch changes nothing in how you play the game

at all

class will just be slower

[jagged pier]

^^

[chilly brook]

Or I need extra aggro on aoe

[strong forum]

nothing else

[wicked pollen]

[pallid quiver]

You'd die faster doing that

You still play the exact same

[wicked pollen]

sounds pog then

[cyan bronze]

idk why they are so heavy handed with the rage nerfs

[wicked pollen]

hi pookie

say hi rn

[cyan bronze]

and very light with the compensation

[wicked pollen]

grrrp

[cyan bronze]

is my confusion

and hi love

[pallid quiver]

You don't watch IP because otherwise you get less IP because you generate less rage

[tardy herald]

Yeah, if I’m ignore pain capped, with slam and clap on cd I fish with revenge quite a lot

[jagged pier]

we dont know

[pallid quiver]

That's why this nerf is so bad; ignore the tuning, it's that it conpletely and utterly fails at what they said they set out to do

[hardy snow]

thats why they are making one of tanks less fun to play? XD

[chilly brook]

IP cap doesn’t matter

[strong forum]

cant wait for the 30% aura buff in 11.1 guys

[gentle violet]

Never argued the rotation or playstyle is different but spending rage incorrectly will be more punishing now, that’s all which in turn means higher skill ceiling. Spending rage on the wrong thing during a critical moment is going to take longer to recover from.

[jagged pier]

as Sense said earlier, these changes come with a talent tree change. and they havent changed our talent tree

[chilly brook]

Press what is most efficient in keeping you from capping and feeds into the rage economy

[waxen cradle]

I posted way way earlier how stupid it is to say they want us to choose how and when we spend our rage, and to buff IP per cast while also not raising the total cap and then also overall nerf how much rage we will have available to use because yes we will have less rage and also be forced to spend it more readily as we wont be swimming in rage as I think they put it

[pallid quiver]

are you sure you know what spending rage correctly entails

[cyan bronze]

I do think colossus could be finer than people think

If even more of our mitigation shifts away from ip to passive hit

[pallid quiver]

Because it's not sending it on IP before damage; that's not what IP does

It's not a main mit tool

[chilly brook]

I mean honestly if they just buffed our rage pool it’d solve the issue

Instead of this silly thing

[pallid quiver]

It helps trickle away damage from our upfront main mit of shield block

[waxen cradle]

@chilly brook Agreed but I wouldn't hold my breath

[pallid quiver]

So we want to get as many casts of it out instead of timing casts

So you want rage for revenge, because it is cheaper overall and restarts the rage gen loop

[chilly brook]

If we had 200 rage instead of 100 congrats you’ve solved the problem

[pallid quiver]

But 100 rage tradition

[gentle violet]

Huh? It’s literally two choices. Can I afford to weave in revenge/execute based on the difficult of this pull or should I prioritize maximizing ignore pain. That’s the decision you’re constantly making while watching your rage levels. It’s just going to be slightly more punishing if you spend it inefficiently now.

[pallid quiver]

The latter is incorrect

In all cases

Of prioritizing IP

That's

Not

What

It

Does

You don't make active choices regarding it

It is a function of your rage

If you spend on IP too much, the entire spec fucking stops

And you die

Just like all the randompug prot wars Insee

[wicked pollen]

i spend rage on execute instead

[pallid quiver]

They walk in, send on IP at the start of a pack, run out of buttons to press,

I pull aggro and die, then they get globalled

[waxen cradle]

If your having a hard time keeping IP up right now I am concerned for you just saying

[strong forum]

@urban bane https://i.imgur.com/WnqAo87.png

what happened in your key

[wicked pollen]

why is the gap so huge

1 and 2

[jagged gust]

Nomer's built different

[strong forum]

apparently people forget to press buttons once they are above 10s

[wicked pollen]

i need to stop pressing ip when i play colo

its stopping me

[strong forum]

i pressed it a bit too much ye

cost me like 200k dps

[jagged pier]

omg Indom got even worse now

[strong forum]

yeeahh

[jagged pier]

didnt even think about that

[shrewd grove]

Unbind it, you coward 😛

[wicked pollen]

what is indom

[cyan bronze]

middle capstone middle

[jagged pier]

also having to spend 2 points into one hand spec literally solves nothing for freeing up talent points

[strong forum]

the thing that makes your health stay high

besides leech

[wicked pollen]

oh

the talent i dont play when im playing colo

[pallid quiver]

It costs us 1% leech, too

but 1% more dam

[gentle violet]

Yeah cause you want to weave in revenge to fish for SS procs which helps the offensive rotation continue to move and promote rage regeneration. I get that. I’m just saying exactly what you’re saying that if you’re spending too much on IP or too much on offense it will be more punishing since the rage regeneration is lower. If you let IP drop in a giant pull cause you’re perma spending on offense or if you’re only spending on IP, then you’re offense will stop. It will be more of a tight knit balance game now that the choice is more meaningful, rage regents slower and gameplay slower.

[waxen cradle]

well less rage = less indom last time I checked or did that change when I was not looking

[urban bane]

:(

[waxen cradle]

Ok yeah checked did not change 🙂

[dusky canopy]

Nomer

🐐

[strong forum]

what happened in that key museless

[chilly brook]

Yeah rogue also had a 100 tradition, now they have like 300

[strong forum]

and 7 combopoints

xd

sometimes 11