protection

[strong forum]

haste is your best stat

if you want dmg, shift a bit more into crit

otherwise ufllsend haste

[vital pollen]

word. I feel like survival is more important for me at the moment, just pushing into 10s and 11s

Feels like boss tank busters are just wrecking me

I'm used to feeling invincible with shield wall up, as opposed to "not one shot"

[strong forum]

you dont get 1shot without wall up, but its not always a happy experience

[vital pollen]

It felt pretty close once or twice in this threads 10 I just did (with no defensive other than IP and SB I mean)

Not one shot, but like 6m+

[lone wren]

got 40 hc keys of brd, anything decent for us?

[rough niche]

srsly I've been trying collosus build and deals way more dmg than MT

survability is the issue with the spec, so I'll gladly take that buff

[vernal aspen]

what is considered good dps as thane for 12s? I've been logging some of my runs and I get orange parses doing around 600k in some of the worst runs... that seems extremely low

[shrewd grove]

I sit around 850k usually. Depends on the key and the group

[vernal aspen]

details or logs?

[shrewd grove]

Details

[tardy abyss]

way more is an exaggeration tbh

[tardy abyss]

Really depends on the key, with aug I do like 1.3M in SV (details)

Whereas in keys like idk dawn its only 1M

Checked logs, 770k in a +14 dawn which was a 99 parse...which doesnt matter anyway

and 900k in a +14 mists /shrug

[quiet monolith]

Are we getting defensive buffs ?

Oh only Colossus

Are we actually gonna play Colossus?

[strong forum]

I would personally be unhappy with less than 1mil

So I'd say good dps is 1.2-1.4mil

Like good dps

[strong forum]

Not for pushing no, still only weekly keys

[vernal aspen]

do you have an example of a run with that dps? just so I can figure out what am I doing wrong

[vernal aspen]

fair enough

[strong forum]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YzRXqdaQgxBcMCTj#fight=last&type=damage-done

We've had a pretty bad run with a full wipe on last boss

And as you can see overall dps is whack, hence why it's depleted

[vernal aspen]

ah but that's colossus

[strong forum]

Was it?

Oh yeah xd

[vernal aspen]

yeah you have demolish

[strong forum]

Yeah without the wipe it woulda been easy 1.4mil overall from me

But the wipe cut it down a bunch

[vernal aspen]

I ball with colossus, but I've been trying to get better at thane because colossus is miserable for pugs

dang 1.4mil

[strong forum]

I rarely play thane, holup

My best is 1.6mil as Colossus

[vernal aspen]

damn

[strong forum]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AxZQn18YBVHTJ7Ky#fight=4&type=damage-done&source=5

That's GB with 1.2mil as Thane

Just 11 but still aight

I rarely play thane in my keys tho cuz it's just so much less dmg than colossus, not very fun

[tardy abyss]

Hm I guess I should give it a try

[strong forum]

Ya idk thane feels bland

If you play perfectly and then see that you do like 50% less aoe dmg

Like say first pull in mists I'd do like 3.5mil dps as Colossus

Meanwhile thane barely scratching 2mil

Not very epic fortnite

[shrewd grove]

Yeah... playing my first key as Colossus pissed me off. The damage gap is insane. And frankly, with proper mitigation and CD use under a 12 is pretty stable. I can imagine the lack of survivability gets punished a lot heavier above a 12, but idk

[strong forum]

It's fine in 12/13 with good gear n gameplay

But, it's a difference like day and night when you take actual dmg

So the more dmg you take, the less dmg colossus will do you cuz you gotta ignore pain more

Thane doesn't change cuz you already spam IP like crazy anyway, but colossus relies on revenge spam to do heavy aoe

[shrewd grove]

And you kinda have to know when you are going to be taking "too much" damage in the next 2s or you fall behind, and hope a healer can pull you back

[strong forum]

Yeh

You need a little more faith in your group to make use of colossus

Thane plays singleplayer

Colossus is more co-op

[shrewd grove]

Had a couple pulls where I got popped by a tank buster I wasn't ready for (fucking SV) and then had to hope my healer could catch me lol

[strong forum]

Which is weird cuz SV does like 0 dmg to pwar

Cuz you have cds for everything

You have SR for every scary thing and then you can rotate sw-spellblock on bosses

[shrewd grove]

As long as you remember to SR the shadow claw cast, which I didn't bc I was talking to my roomate lol

[strong forum]

[livid dawn]

Even if Colossus is squishier than mountain thane, is it even remotely close to as squishy as a paladin is?

[shrewd grove]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's as squishy. HP just doesn't bounce as much. But when it does you're in danger

[novel osprey]

Anybody interested in doing some 5 tank dungeon runs? (no healers, no dps) Nothing competitive, just for the chaos and fun of it all.

[shrewd grove]

Lmao

[vagrant echo]

Anyone got tips for the double guardian pack in mists? Talking 12+, I’m getting crushed every time. It doesn’t seem possible without a ton of kitting

Does anyone know if there are cd rotations written down anywhere for higher keys? I’m interested in what other people are doing

[quiet monolith]

i belieeve yoda put out a video on how to tank that pack as every tank spec

[grim pilot]

@south zealot drop the lore

why is gromnak not in your guild

anymore

[south zealot]

dm me

[pallid quiver]

For starters, are you properly leveraging spell reflect? If you're not, you're starting so far on the backfoot that it's not even funny

After that, it's the basic rotation between shield wall and spell block; can use LS followed by a delayed IV if you really need and run into a gap

[grim pilot]

can u even kite those out

idk use SR

pre sr even like few sec earlier but not too early so u actually get one

that way you deal with only 1 stack for the first 2 waves of hits

then idk big defensive

and 4th-5th same shit

if it even lives this long

[violet ginkgo]

1st SR 2nd SW
3rd and 4th Spell Block
5th Spellblock and 6th depend if spellblock expire or not, if expire then Spellreflect again.
7th and 8th you can Spell Reflect (depend on what happened on 6th) and Shield Wall since probably already coming back

After that if your group haven't kill it... well damn those DPS probably not popping some offensive.

[hallow parrot]

can we macro ravager with spear?

[mighty valley]

No, can't macro two on-gcd abilities together

[jaunty wyvern]

You can sequence Marco them, and just alternate using them, sorta shitty but do able

[surreal bluff]

when recrafting for higher ilvl, do we prefer shield or weapon?

[tawdry fjord]

Does anyone have any decent plater profile?
Would like to find something that makes bar change color if im close to losing aggro or if someone overaggro me

[heady schooner]

SPeaking of Ravager/spear....anyone know why neither @player or @cursor macro for those abilities is working? It's still giving me the target circle I have to place

[jagged pier]

cause your macro is wrong

cause they work for those modifers

[upbeat lake]

you might have done like i did before, since it doesn't tell you anywhere to do that

putting a macro on ravager won't modify the normal ravager ability cast

you need to drag your macro icon on your spellbar for you to be able to use the macro version of ravager

[tame birch]

Did they fix the flurry los for 2nd boss in gb? Tried it earlier with no luck

[glacial skiff]

Those of you with the numbers, will the changes to colossus make it more viable for big keys come Tuesday?

[slate sedge]

They fixed it

[brisk quail]

Shield

[azure mortar]

My tank keeps dying on Necrotic Wake 1st pull all the time, could anyone give a brief recommendation of cooldown usage?

A friend went through Kiras +16 and analyzed it, wrote this note for our tank

Is this valid or are there any illegal things here?

[long kayak]

/castsequence [@cursor] Ravager, Champion's Spear

[jagged pier]

We would have to see a log to see what hes doing tbh

[azure mortar]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NtYvPXcjGLnW7RB4#fight=3
NW 1 and NW 2
These weren't wipes, but just looking for general info if there's anything that can be done better here

[jagged pier]

Private cant view em

[azure mortar]

Sorry, they're public now

[inner oracle]

Using Quazii plater as base: https://quazii.com/the-war-within-plater-nameplates-profile/

[weak cedar]

any clue what i'd drop for battle scarred veteran? beginner here and going for the most foolproof talents lol

[inner oracle]

I dropped the one above Ravager iirc

[toxic gyro]

Ravager or blood surge.
Also drop last stand takent for spell block. It’s probably the strongest cd in game vs bolts and more.

[weak cedar]

sounds good, ty

[toxic gyro]

You can also play challenging shout. Very good, especially in pugs.

[upbeat hill]

I'm having bit of aggro problems sometimes at start of a pull for trash, if I dont have Avatar och shield charge ready.
Mostly to classes with burst AoE like ret palas. I feel like thunderclap isn't enough.
Do I need to rotate and shield slam every target or use revenge more to keep aggro at start of pull?

[weak cedar]

also made this macro, not sure if its making me less efficient in any way

seems like an easy way to have 100% uptime on ignore pain / shield block with just one button

and the shield slam is just bonus

[toxic gyro]

You need avatar or TR or good snap aggro or save TB proc if mobs are almost dead.

this TR setup helps with having it pretty much on every pull.

[remote tusk]

You don't always have to blast Shield Block. Better to remove that and make separate macro for SB + SS to snipe procs

[sturdy heart]

If you do not have avatar or shield charge you will lose aggro no matter how much you try. We do not do enough damage for the current level of dps.

Thunder blast is what snags everything and shield slam requires procs so it just won’t be viable to try and tab target.
Try to save avatar at the tail end of pulls so you have it on the next one. You can use spear as a last resort to grab aggro as well.

[toxic gyro]

100% uptime on ignore pain is not something we aim for. You only care to have 100% uptime on shield block, and you dump rage into ignore pain and dont think about it.

[tardy abyss]

DPS fault if theyre not careful

Only class where you are truly helpless is enhancer but theres a reason aug takes timelessness

[tardy abyss]

Its just gonna make you sit at 0 rage which is super bad

[weak cedar]

isnt "dumping rage into ignore pain without thinking about it" effectively the same as spamming that macro every time my rage is over 50 or so? honest question

[tardy abyss]

More like 80 rage

[weak cedar]

just wondering cause no one seems to use that macro so im obviously missing something

[tardy abyss]

But you still dont need to use SB anytime its off cd

Which is why the recommended macro only has IP and SS

[weak cedar]

oh

i thought SB uses stacked their duration instead of losing uptime

[tardy abyss]

They do

But you could waste a lot of SB uptime if you use it at the end of a pull

[weak cedar]

ah

that makes sense

[mighty valley]

putting IP in your regular shield slam bind is fine to catch some ss resets you might otherwise miss

but in general you just want to be more intentional about spending rage

[tardy abyss]

You dont just replace SS with the macro

Thats bad

[remote anchor]

you add shield slam to ignore pain

not the other way around

[mighty valley]

sorry yeah

It’s early

ss in your regular ip bind

[cursive root]

Hey what are the thoughts about the colossus buff ?

[mighty valley]

nice if you want to play colossus, not enough to make it the choice for really high keys

[cursive root]

Up to 12 is fine I suppose?

[mighty valley]

yeah, if you play well

thane is just easy and effective

but you can get big damage out of colossus

[cursive root]

Nice thanks, just playing a alt war at this point, trying to play both hero talents, to get knowledge

[toxic gyro]

At some point you dont want to overcap on ignore pain if you dont have to or just shield block without also using ignore pain. That macro is bad.

[inner plank]

I really don't get all the macros

Feels like binding SS to IP would break the tempo of the spec so bad

And binding IP to SS means there's no way to pull rage...?

I can't find two spells that would make sense bound together

[violet ginkgo]

only you seeing it doesn't make sense though, all of us use that.

so the problem lies within you, not the macro

[toxic gyro]

SS in ignore pain macro is good to not miss on SS resets. SS is the highest prio in rotation.

[inner plank]

Which one all of you use specifically ?

[violet ginkgo]

binding SS to IP and binding SS to SB

then having separate SS

[mighty valley]

ss in ip just means that sometimes when you get a surprise ss reset while your brain is already locked into pressing tc or revenge, you get ss instead

[toxic pewter]

Attention all: I am the highest rate vulpera warrior in rated bg blitz in the world

[mighty valley]

i used to worry about it pressing ss over offensive cds but you can kind of just offset your gcd and your ip cooldown

[mighty valley]

👑

[toxic pewter]

next is solo shuffle

I will crush all in my path

[lime plaza]

I for know alot of my other tanks - Ascension is still an OP embelishment, but it seems Prot Warrior doesnt like it, why?

[inner plank]

Interesting, thanks !
I'll give it a try. Do you bind it to both IP and SB ?

[mighty valley]

I personally don’t, you just press sb way less frequently

[strong forum]

It's nowhere near OP, and only alright in raid

The only difference Ascension is, is guaranteed stats after 2 minutes of staying in combat, whereas dusk/dawn grants the same amount of stats but with less guaranteed uptime due to dmg intake, however in m+ Ascension is prone to falling off entirely and needing to restack first.

[tired girder]

I was reading and is good to macro shield block to shield slam?
And have another keybind for IP for example.

[shrewd grove]

No

[cyan bronze]

Yeah you read some ass

[tired girder]

If i macro IP with SS i tend to miss rage to use shield block.
Thats why i dont use macros.

How you guys manage the rage for shield block when using shield slam and IP macro?

[urban portal]

You have a shield slam by itself

[shrewd grove]

Never macro Shield Block to Shield Slam.

You can macro Shield Slam onto your IP macro, but that's it. And I want to be very clear. You macro SS onto your IP macro, only. So that, when you hit IP, it also Shield Slams. That is it. Do not use it to replace your Shield Slam bind.

[urban portal]

Then another for ip+slam

[shrewd grove]

So, your new IP macro would be

#showtooltip
/cast Ignore Pain
/cast Shield Slam

And it replaces Ignore Pain on your bars. NOT Shield Slam. You still need a button that is just Shield Slam by itself

[tired girder]

Ahh. I was using shield slam for IP.
Thats makes sense

That way it uses the ss procs and i dont loose rage

[shrewd grove]

This will also use the SS procs. You use it when you are at <=70 rage or so, and it will eat the IP rage and then cast SS so you don't overcap

[tired girder]

Thz i will correct my macro and keybind

[shrewd grove]

Npnp

[tired girder]

I was using shield slam to cast IP macro. Thats why was difícult to manage rage for shield block

[shrewd grove]

Yep, and that's exactly why we don't do that

You have to have a way to cast SS without immediately eating the rage. So you have to have a bind that is just SS

[pallid quiver]

I happened to see this since Discord defaulted me here, but you really don't need all 4 Shield Block talents; that's extreme overkill. Rather than dropping LS CD to 2 mins and be incentivized to press it every 2 mins, you should grab spell block instead, considering almost everything that is a threat to tanks this season is able to be mitigated by spell block.

Off the top of my head, the only thing that's like an active threat to tanks that can't be spell blocked is extraction strike

[pallid quiver]

At a quick glance before even looking too hard into it, I recommend your tank block attacks coming in from the mobs. They can do this by facing the enemy mobs in order to enable blocking as an option. This option can be improved by pressing shield block, which turns their block chance to 100%.

This sounds very facetious, but, like

That's with shield block up

[tardy abyss]

Fuck extraction strike

It hits like a truck

[pallid quiver]

Also, for those notes, they can be simplified mostly to

don't overlap CDs

You get better mitigation over time if you don't overlap CDs. You can also use LS later since it does also heal you for the extra HP gain, if you think he'll find more use from the increased healing on IV/Healthstones/Indom more useful later in the pull.

Also, side note that shockwave is on a 25s CD due to Rumbling Earth; decreases the CD by 15s if you hit 3 targets

[violet ginkgo]

Oh yeah Hmmm While I still remember I need some advice for Queen Heroic at P3

I notice after Infest, when the adds spawn I will get some damage, while the initial hit can be spellblocked I think when the adds spawn need shield wall? Do I need to commit both defensives?

Samething with Gorge, while the gorge itself can be spellblocked too the melee hit after gorge hurt a lot do I commit shield wall too or call for healer's external?

[pallid quiver]

I believe the idea is that with gorge, at least, the tank who dropped off adds comes back in and taunts boss back, but don't hold me to it. I wager that's the case because gorge leaves you with a melee damage taken increase debuff for like 20 or 30s after iirc

Also, the main gorge itself can't be spell blocked, since gorge is full phys damage. It applies an AOE that hits the raid that the tooltip calls gloom splatter, but I think logs and details marks it as a shadow damage gorge

[violet ginkgo]

It is luerce but before he can get back I usually take 1 or 2 hit, because obviously he gotta wait till adds spawn before he can charge back and taunt.

[pallid quiver]

Yeah, since gorge is effectively pure phys on tanks, you should always send Shield Wall

[violet ginkgo]

Oh for real? Well I looked at sense document. I’ll try looking at game’s explanation sometimes.

Btw what about handling the infest one?

[pallid quiver]

Sense goes by what logs say, which is that they're both Gorge, since that's how the game's coded

the tooltip is effectively flavor, but it'll tell you how the breakdown works

Infest I'd have to look at logs real fast, since I haven't noticed anything on Heroic, and I cba raiding Myth so my info comes from logs

Sense at least was sending shield wall on every infest; he didn't take a single gorge, since his cotank was taking every gorge. On the last infest, he stacked both sp block and shield wall

The infest casts look to be 1 min apart at its worst, so you can comfortably send shield wall on every go

[violet ginkgo]

Hmmm so at phase 3 spellblock not usable that much. Gotta cycle the rage asap to make that shield wall coming up fast.

[pallid quiver]

SW's normally at like a 50s CD, so it should be pretty comfortable overall

[violet ginkgo]

Alright thx again Luerce. Will try it next week on real fight.

[sweet egret]

it doesn't show up on bis lists because it is not bis because it can't be more than hero track. (it's great and sims correctly)

[chrome sapphire]

Ya, that does make sense and I hadnt considered it. Im not a mythic raider, so heroic raid trinkets are basically my max.

[sweet egret]

I'm using @cursor macros for both ravager and spear without issue

[vagrant echo]

Copy it in here? Never seen @cursor

[sweet egret]

very bad macro, you will waste all rage and shield block charges

[sweet egret]

it doesn't stack to infinity

[vagrant echo]

Yes, tab ss, tclap on cd, aoe stun/fear, and challenging shout if everything turns at once. Paladins should know better but enhance can pull 15 seconds in on a fight with huge pulls even when i had avatar. Do you have plater that shows 90% threat?

This shouldn’t be a big issue until they get like 630 and 12+ keys where they need to burn stuff to time.

[heady schooner]

Yeah it's working now. It was an action bar issue.

[edgy bone]

How good to the colossus buff for prot?

[naive plaza]

i feel so much better

i thought i was dumb coming here asking "is colossus good now" but now ive seen like 20 people ask it

[sharp gale]

does buff includes something about rage or IP as colossus ? nop

it's just a buff, don't change pretty much anything, colossus still has the same issue

[urban portal]

It’s a good buff if you already like colossus

[long flower]

so block reduce dmg of an attack, so what if its 100%? or 150?

100% change to block an attack + 50%? what does that 50% do?

[sharp gale]

nothing

[urban portal]

There’s a difference between block chance and block amount

[sharp gale]

after 100% block chance nothing happens

[long flower]

so keeping shield block up all time is hjigh prio?

[sharp gale]

yes it is part of prot's "mini game", keep up shield block at all time while actively tanking

[long flower]

and ignore pain aswell?

altho on wowhead it said use it if about to overcap rage

not as active mitiation xd

[sharp gale]

yes and as thane you overcap all the time, you press IP "almost" every gcd

[long flower]

is the loss when playing colossus to big in dmg?

compared to thane?

[lavish solstice]

can someone explain why most prot warrior uses colossus on ulgrax,bloodbound and ovinax?

[sharp gale]

for dmg

[lavish solstice]

is colossus better on single target situations?

why not on kyveza?

[sharp gale]

you need to survive on kyvesa

[knotty pewter]

anyone konw if Shattering Throw instantly removes shield on last boss NW?

[sharp gale]

you can see if they go monkey zug zug mod in logs with that

[lavish solstice]

got it

with recent upcoming buff on colossus survivability will it be more viable on ky'veza then?

[sharp gale]

basically what it can tell you, colossus is the way when you don't need anything to survive, even def talents to maintain block is an option

[lavish solstice]

even in aoe situations?

[sharp gale]

well the only first real aoe fight of the raid is ovinax so ....

i'm taking mythic logs stats ofc

[round wolf]

Any of you guys play collousus in m plus

[sharp gale]

I did few keys as colossus, X weeks ago, it is fun to play tbh

[nimble laurel]

Is it more damage but less survivability?

[desert grail]

anyone have a good build for just straight big dmg when doing weekly 10s? colossus i assume?

[long flower]

is it only spell reflect that can do dmg back to the enemy?

when i use spell block, it's basically shield block but for magic casts?

so a portion of its dmg gets reduced if spell block is up?

[fading igloo]

Quick question can't find a recent answer from this expansion so just found this discord. How much haste is needed before into the fray is viable for a prot warrior? Is it still around 5000 haste?

[sharp gale]

I only tried in few 10s, so where I can’t say if surv or dmg was that different, but I could see why it is not played in top keys

[nimble laurel]

What did you see?

[languid sorrel]

Question. Trying to push to ksm but stalling at close to 1700. Finding it challenging in pugs between lack of interrupts and toxic people but focusing on what I can influence. I feel like my health bar is ping ponging too much, particularly on pull. As an example i did a 5 siege and pulled first two packs. Must have let something get behind me (yes noob move lol) cause got spanked. Any tips on defensive management? I downloaded and used analyser and found some stuff to do so really it's about improving ise of def cd's and positioning

[sharp gale]

I did 1.2 and 1.3 m overall in 2 mists, where I usually do 1 -1.1 as thane in the same dungeon

[sharp gale]

You feel really bad when you need to press IP

[nimble laurel]

I press IP all the time 😭

[sharp gale]

So basically if you arrive at a situation where things makes IP pops and you need to reactivate it, you feel bad as colossus

But when you can just fill IP with dmg it feels really good

[next axle]

I have been seeing some prot warriors running focusing lens in keys - including sense. Does anyone know why?

[sharp gale]

Because you rage starve a little bit/need to more manage rage as colossus

[sharp gale]

Maybe it’s raid gear 🤷‍♂️

[next axle]

Its on his crafted ring - you think he recrafts for every raid? Or just has two crafted rings one for each lol

[nimble laurel]

Do you pretty much only hit revenge if you get the free proc?

[sharp gale]

I would doubt he recraft it, just to warn, I don’t know why he plays with it, but me I play with raid embellish in keys because I don’t need it for what I do

Which is 10-12s vault filling keys (i don’t like the season sorry guys)

[sharp gale]

How I played : i replaced thunderclap with revenge, and you press thunderclap only if you rage starve or apply bleeds

[upbeat elk]

Hi guys 🙂 I wonder if you guys swap to a different spec while not in mythic/raids.

Maybe fury is quicker for dailies for example.

[sharp gale]

During cds, I was spamming revenge and pressing shield slam with outbursts

In AoE ofc

Im not a pro of colossus don’t take heavy advice on me

[long flower]

any spell reflect WAs?

[unborn island]

Is there anything 'special' about the trash before the first boss in Mists? I just did a +6 and my DTPS was super high. The group was ass, but it was about 200k higher than normal for any other dungeon.

It wasn't block/IP uptime as those were as normal (98%/ spend nearly all rage on IP).

Healer was an evoker in case that matters.

I'm used to looking at logs myself/just used details and nothing really jumped out at me....

[sharp gale]

You talk about literally the two dudes before the boss or the trash from start to them ?

For tanks things on trash until the 2 dudes, you have a dmg amp few guys put on you that needs to be dispel (you can spell reflect before they cast)

[fading igloo]

Anybody have an answer on this one trying to get an idea of when I can do that newer to tanking apologize

[sharp gale]

It’s 21k+ haste

Unbuffed

(Around 35+%) if I remember

[fading igloo]

awesome thank you so much!

[sharp gale]

You need to be more careful about SB wasted uptime even at that haste

[nimble laurel]

I'm running around 18k haste, use haste flask, and have about 94% uptime on shield block using into the fray

[sharp gale]

Yes you can flask haste it’s a good way to reach it

[fading igloo]

gotcha. Once I get closer to those numbers I can start training dummying it and feel it out just didn't know the starting point. Glad I asked here the 5000 was obviously way off/outdated haha

[unborn island]

Was literally all of the trash, but this makes sense. Cheers for the quick answer.

[sharp gale]

It must be that if it’s dmg on you, you can Spell reflect right when you pull a pack, it’s the first thing they cast (the first pull and the two caster pack after the skip)

[unborn island]

Will keep an eye open for it on reflect

Ahah, thank you!

[sharp gale]

Dmg on group, well it’s unkicked casts, the first pull try to solo manage the 1 caster because you don’t trust pug

[unborn island]

It was just me, but they all died a lot as well, because the healer was only chucking out 250k hps

🙂

I mean, I didn't die at all, so had a lot of time to look at logs...

[sharp gale]

I started to heal low keys with my alt druid sometime it is overwhelming but 250k is wtf (not if it was a really quick group death)

[unborn island]

Nah, throughout was just super low

Idk if it's just an evoker healer thing maybe, but the healer was cheeks, any group damage and people just died immediately

[sharp gale]

The only time I struggled for now (as a really rare healer) was the big beetle guy after second boss of city

In an 8, but I have 600 ilvl

[unborn island]

Hah yeah, that's understandable

I'm a noob this expansion, so only running around in 612, but I've done 7s and had my HP not move (I still know how to be a tank reasonably well, and it seems we are tanky this expansion)

[sharp gale]

Since yesterday I’m in « I understand now » phase when I see what war crimes people do (tanks included since I don’t usually have a pug tank eheh)

[unborn island]

Hehehe

[sharp gale]

Like ara Kara no cast kicked after the first boss, I was sweating

Double poison volley in the group ahh

[pallid quiver]

As a future heads up, the number of rating needed will change from xpac to xpac due to the level scaling on stats

Your goal will, in the current environment, be somewhere around 30-40% haste before any buffs. Reason being is that it's what you need to maintain 100% effective SB uptime. So it can lower if mobs are just pure casting so you can't even block them, and it can raise if there's a lot of time you need to engage block. Can lower if there's dungeon buffs that increase haste, etc.

I personally don't even think about it until like 35-40% because cba

[round pendant]

holy moly

classic wow tanking is a miserable time

[pallid quiver]

Yeah

[round pendant]

just did a deadmines at level 18

[pallid quiver]

No real agency, gotta corral a bunch of classic players,

[sharp gale]

classic gameplay is miserable, it's the journey the thing

[round pendant]

I find it rather chill it's just

I mark a mob

[sharp gale]

yes big chill leveling

[round pendant]

everyone attacks a different thing

[round pendant]

I literally cannot get aggro

[pallid quiver]

the real challenge of classic wow is dealing with classic wow players

[round pendant]

but it's not that big a deal it's just not fun

but then edwin absolutely destroyed me???

him and his goons just stabbing me for 50 damage every .3s

[sharp gale]

crazy, on retail, the challenge is to deal with pugs

[round pendant]

It was fun tho but man I don't think I wanna tank til later

[pallid quiver]

Your average retail pug is smarter than your average classic player

[round pendant]

Disagree

[sharp gale]

i disagree your disagreement

[frail ibex]

Both are dumb af

[pallid quiver]

My experience with classic players is that they have trouble running in a straight line and can barely feed themselves, based on the time I've been in a VC with one

[frail ibex]

Doesn't matter if one pile of shit smells more than the other because they are both piles of shit

[round pendant]

Most people I've met in classic at least understand pulls, LoS

[mighty valley]

yeah he’s three levels above you, the range in mob levels in classic dungeons is huge lol

[pallid quiver]

They literally slapped their mic and complained about their pasta going everywhere about every minute

[round pendant]

and even if they do something stupid

I usually understand what they were going for

but in retail I swear it's like I'm playing with literal vegetables sometimes

[round pendant]

yeah I prob should be around the middle of the dungeons level range before trying to tank a dungeon ig

[sharp gale]

because a trash pack has more mechanics than an entire classic dungeon

[pallid quiver]

Generally, you want to be on the upper range of its level range

Otherwise it's bad time zone as tank

[round pendant]

It's prob just retails button bloat tbf, bad players just staring at their bars instead of playing the game

[round pendant]

especially as warrior ig

[pallid quiver]

Aggro gen is a complete shitfest before anything else if you're not

you just don't hit reliably enough

forget living

[round pendant]

yeah I love missing 3 hits in a row

I wonder what my hit chance is actually

[sharp gale]

but you love when the mob 3 miss you, that's the experience

[round pendant]

never happens

[sharp gale]

if you fight orange npcs yes it will never happens but when it does

[round pendant]

I'm playing with a friend so mostly duo

so I can't just go off and grind

so 90% of the stuff I'm fighting is 1-2 levels above

it suuuuuuucks

[sharp gale]

yeah group friend classic experience is : pexing together until someone cracks and set the rule "we will say this zone you can do without me"

[mortal pecan]

whats the embellishment for the crafted sword?

ascension? i have duskthread on the shield

[smoky anvil]

4 12s left

[sharp gale]

GG

you might have bigger rio pp now than me, i congrat you

[smoky anvil]

I'm like 2856 I think. 1 13, 3 12s, 4 11s

I'm stopping once rest as 12s tbh

[sharp gale]

I don’t remember mineI have 3 12s I think

[smoky anvil]

pushing and bricking is becoming unfun

[sharp gale]

Yep now you understand why I don’t push

[smoky anvil]

I swapped to BSV

and after playing wit hit

I really feel like ravager is better at the 12-13 level

I find myself missing the rage on the big moments so much more

[sharp gale]

I stepped into 1 12 start this season i saw the monkeys i had to deal with, I never stepped into a 12 after but when friends makes me to it

13s is the lvl IP starts to get popped ?

That’s might be a reason you feel rage missing

[bleak delta]

i tried a 13 once.... >.>

now im gearing my pally

[jagged gust]

Dropping either feels weird

[proper grotto]

For Siege first Boss, any tips on not getting cucked during pull in+cleave? Just had a run where I had 3-4 of those fuckers on me - or is that just dps ignoring them for way too long?

[smoky anvil]

I keep the adds with the boss as best as I can and they just get cleaved down

[proper grotto]

Hmm, k. Guess its just me not getting them to the boss fast enough after first cleave goes off

[edgy bone]

bloodmallet says this is good in 5target AoE

and this

[half sapphire]

Just be glad you don’t have a priest (my dad) who takes every single green item for enchanting, leaving you with no gold to level up skills while being relentlessly told to wear a sword and shield. -my classic 2005 experiance

The worst part about it was how often I died, and had to repair with almost zero gold, that wisp form probably saved me hours of playtime

[edgy bone]

@shut summit How come you ran skyterror's organ trinket in the 16 you ran six days ago?

[sharp gale]

Having 3 is already something going wrong, I tank adds on boss at all time and just make them face out

The only time I don’t pull them on top of boss is if they just spawned and boss grab is imminent

[cyan bronze]

what key was it?

if cot some people will run col in higher keys for last boss breaks, could be that for an extra cd

[bleak delta]

dude is built different

[edgy bone]

+16 siege, cot, and mists. all 3

[final jackal]

hi new to prot warrior, wondering what I should craft first?

[primal onyx]

580 ilvl, tanking 3s, 63% block uptime, might be too soon for into the fray I guess lol

Haven’t checked logs til now, so never looked at block uptime lol

[bleak delta]

Shield

[final jackal]

thanks

[final jackal]

with duskthread or dawnthread?

[bleak delta]

Duskthread

[violet ginkgo]

dawnthread

[runic briar]

if i'm getting beat up by +10 trash is it an ilvl thing or am i not smashing my buttons correctly? im so confused

[violet ginkgo]

ppl will say that provide log will give clearer view

[runic briar]

well true but it was more of a generalized does this tend to happen kinda question

[urban portal]

you cant say its an ilvl thing without mentioning your ilvl

but more likely than not its probably a rotational issue

[runic briar]

that sass was much more valid... 619

[jagged gust]

that's a you thing

[runic briar]

see thanks

[urban portal]

and whats your shield ilevel

more likely than not you are just taking too many backshots

[runic briar]

626

[runic briar]

no

[jagged gust]

we could verify

with logs

[runic briar]

i'll log my next

[jagged gust]

you'd be surprised, your unblocked hits are roughly double their % in damage, that number quickly rises to points your healer can't keep up

[woven venture]

Hey, so i'm a fledgling M+ prot war. I've noticed a weird thing where I thought the right thing for max rage gen on pull was to charge and then shield charge on the same global, which should net me 60 rage.

However, when I do it, it only gives me the 20 rage from the regular charge, not the shield charge. What gives?

[urban portal]

that sounds like one charge is overwriting the other

i dont think its recommended to charge into shield charge immediately

[woven venture]

So I think i figured it out.
If I charge and then shield charge I should get 20 rage then 40 more plus shield block, but instead I only get 20 plus shield block.
If I shield charge then immediately charge I should get 40 rage plus shield block and then 20 more rage, and I do.

Not sure I understand why but whatever, least I figured it out.

[urban portal]

you shouldnt shield charge in opener

you want to shield charge with cds rolling

something like this

[woven venture]

That looks like a raid opener?

[urban portal]

theres no difference

[woven venture]

I'm neither running ravager nor dragon's roar.

[urban portal]

roar gets replaced by spear

you are running one of those

ravager you just ignore

[woven venture]

Yeah I have spear.

[urban portal]

you get enough rage to shield block with charge and avatar

the ravager is irrelvant

everything else is the same

[woven venture]

If I do that on the opener of a key I will have shield block but no ignore pain for several globals.

The reason I've been shield charging initially is because I need to have shield block and ignore pain before the trash pack hits me.

[edgy bone]

@bleak delta I bet it's because the nature damage from corrosive organ procs the queen ring more

[bleak delta]

i didn't even think about that, its a good point

[urban portal]

thats not true, booming voice gives 30 rage

+the auto attack makes enough for your first ignore pain

even in this screenshot its 2 globals without ignore pain

[woven venture]

What's the gain of holding shield charge that long versus just shield charging/charging on opener to get 60 rage and definitely have ignore pain up before anything hits me? Just that shield charge will do more damage? Just trying to understand, I appreciate the info.

[urban portal]

yes

you are missing almost 60% extra damage on shield charge

[woven venture]

Where's that all coming from?

[urban portal]

20% from avatar

20% from booming voice

25% from champions might

40-60 give or take

[woven venture]

Gotcha, depending on crits I guess since champion's might is only for crits

[urban portal]

its minimum 44

[woven venture]

Wow, that skyrocketed my DPS on my opener. Appreciate the info 😄

[urban portal]

again, if you are dying in 2 globals

theres something severely wrong

[woven venture]

Yeah that's not happening, I just hate taking any dmg right on pull hah

[jagged gust]

SW is always available

[woven venture]

So in this opener it's not caring about putting thunder clap on CD before resetting it with avatar. just follow what's in that screenshot.

[fiery gale]

Why would you waste a global of avatar time with demo shout?

Should be other way around I’d have thought

[urban portal]

Yeah should be the other way around

But it’s small optimization

1 global of tank damage that isn’t a burst ability is not too big of a deal

[fiery gale]

Yeah actually I also always clap and then use avatar for clap reset, why is it worse?

[urban portal]

Because the regular clap is whatever

I’m not saying this opener is 100% correct btw

It’s just a general idea

Tank openers are much more dynamic than dps openers

[fiery gale]

True it’s mostly whatever as long as you live and get aggro quickly, probably not a huge effect in overall DPS of the pull

[woven venture]

Realistically i'll never get to use this opener in a key because if my first global isn't thunderclap some ahole DPS is guaranteed to be tanking anyway lol

But I'm gonna try

[fiery gale]

Yeah either TC or shield charge most times for me if spear is on CD

[urban portal]

Yeah just clap/revenge to build aggro first

[woven venture]

Yeah learning how much more dmg I can get by waiting to shield charge until I have my dmg amps up is helpful though for sure.

[fiery gale]

I really like shield charge on pull because you immediately have both important mitigations up in a global

And initial aggro by aoe dmg

Maybe it’s bad play though

[ionic fern]

That's AFTER normal Charge,right?

And AFTER demo shout?

[fiery gale]

Usually demo shouting during shield charging

When close to mobs

[ionic fern]

Don't Shield Charge in..use normal Charge.

Shield Charge has no minimum range,so you can use it in melee. You Charge from further(it has a minimum range) to get the Rage from it and then go on about your regular rotation.

DS before SC to get the damage amp.

[fiery gale]

Yeah it’s certainly not ideal

[violet ginkgo]

Speaking of this mwahi. Is our opening order one of the burstiest among tanks? As in the transmitter active then

• Ravager > Charge > Demo + avatar > Spear > Shield Charge

usually if the other tank is not taunting I can just rip aggro sometimes on initial pull

[ionic fern]

I can't speak of other tanks unfortunately.

Don't know how bursty they are

Generally speaking the starting ta k should always start with a taunt regardless.

[sharp gale]

Surprisingly MDI can give you an answer/hint about which tank do the most burst dmg, for once it may be useful

I just watched the grand finale, that skarmorak pull from perplex was kinda crazy the warlock chilling 30m dps

[lean wyvern]

Any opinion if Colossus now gets more tanky than Mountain Thane after class tuning this week? (M+)

[jagged pier]

its not

[bleak delta]

@jagged pier on court, can SB block poison bolt? if not how can i mitigate it more, its hurting :/

[elfin ginkgo]

Hi! I am REALLY new to prot warrior and looking at the talent tree right now. The only self-heal ability i see is through Indomitable. How do prot warriors heal themselves? Am i missing something?

[sweet summit]

we kinda don't!
we work by mitigating most of the damage before it hurts us
however we do have ignore pain which is an absorb so it shows up on healing meters

there's also the occasional Impending Victory, and Last Stand

[tardy isle]

if you spellblock during gash on kyveza does it block the dot ticks?

[elfin ginkgo]

I see thank you! I just have to make sure i dont fuck up when doing delves without a healer, since going back up from low health seems difficult

[sweet summit]

general rule of thumb is block doesn't work on dots
so unless the sheet specified you can block the dot then no

[tardy isle]

so the usage of spellblock on that fight would be on the actual tank buster then

asking for our prot warr 😄

[sweet summit]

idk i don't raid 🫡

[sharp gale]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQQCkBEkOadsvO4sTphB1RwzC6Z_3kq00IFaBrCk5Eagz2Jeoox7D7Rk3XwXMINbh4lUg9Vr-3RgoB2/pubhtml#

[sweet summit]

delves are super chill since you're constantly getting victory rush procs that make IV (impending victory) free and makes it come off cooldown if it was on cooldown before

[tardy isle]

@sharp gale it say gash is blockable does that mean you block the dot ticks

[astral crystal]

spell block doesn't block spell ticks

only pally mastery does

[sweet summit]

did you read the note on the right

[sharp gale]

Gash is the dot

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=440413/void-shredders

[tardy isle]

yeah I know. so that's a yes then

[sharp gale]

That’s the tank buster

[tardy isle]

thank you

[sharp gale]

Anima slash ?

[pallid quiver]

Pally spell block works literally the exact same as War spell block

If War spell block can't block ticks, Pally can't block it, either

Some dots are blockable, some are not.

It's literally just up to whether Blizz says you can or not

They can even change it, like they did with Sark in Aberrus

Rule of Thumb is no blocking dots, but there's a lot more dots you can spell block now that are relevant to tanks, like the above Kyveza

Funny enough, you can't actually spell block the main hit of Kyveza's tank buster; it only spell blocks the dot

[astral crystal]

iirc they had changed this in DF, didn't they?

[pallid quiver]

spell block for war only existed in DF

We didn't have the option to block magic before

[astral crystal]

i realizez that

*realize

[pallid quiver]

that was the unique Pally thing from one of their talents was that they could block spells

[pallid quiver]

For future reference, if you have any questions about spell block usage for your Prot War, I'd recommend checking the reflect/block sheet that's always in the pins; as long as Sense is playing, it'll always be there and is the most up to date compiled resource as to what it works on. Since whether it works on dots or not is a 100% crapshoot, or even if it works on initial hits is technically a crapshoot, though more reliable, it's always nice to refer to it

It would also note any tankbusters that aren't normal blockable, as well, iirc, for warnings of "this phys hit will clap you because blizz fucking hates you specifically"

[astral crystal]

@strong forum halp, does spell block block dots? feel like i'm getting gaslit here, slipped into an alternate dimension

[tardy isle]

yeah forgot about that one existing. I played a bunch of warrior but never really liked prot so I havent been looking it up for a few expos. could've checked the faq before asking ofcourse

[pallid quiver]

have you checked the sheet

and looked at kyveza

and seen that it does not block the initial hit, and only blocks the dot?

It's just like every other ability in the game

Blizz chooses whether you can block or not block it

[pallid quiver]

No worries, always better to ask than go blind

[astral crystal]

right, but i'm pretty sure in general terms it's not the case

[pallid quiver]

On average, yes, you can block initial hits, but not dots

but it's literally up to blizz

It's just like how there's physical attacks you sometimes can't block

They can just choose to make something blockable or unblockable

[astral crystal]

so there are exceptions is what we're getting at here

it's not the norm

hence my confusion

[pallid quiver]

Sark dot in Aberrus was blockable, the dot from DotI last boss was not blockable

The norm should be you just try, log, and see

There's been enough of both cases that the rule of thumb isn't very useful

In raid, especially, there's been more spell blockable dots than not from what I can recall since Aberrus

[half sapphire]

In my experience the easiest way to ensure aggro is ravager pre pull -> charge -> avatar -> clap to get that initial snap aggro and then do the demo shout -> roar -> shield charge.

You should easily have an insane amount of rage from ravager to get some shield block and ignore pain, and then you just try and keep your ignore pain rolling throughout the key by being fast on pulls, this is an EXTREMELY good habit to get into because of how many people craft ascension embellished weapons, those stacks fall off extremely unreliably if not in combat.

[strong forum]

99% of dots are not spellblockable

It's been cases of specific raidbosses that have had blockable dots

[astral crystal]

figured as much 🤷

ty

[uncut dome]

How strong is the war buff for meler Comps?

[tardy abyss]

Pretty decent

[uncut dome]

Having an argument with a mate that war buff for melee comps makes up for the extra dmg pally does Especially after nerf?

[tardy abyss]

It wont make up for it no

But it does help

Would be even closer if you could play Colossus in high keys tho

[uncut dome]

Colussus just flops?

[tardy abyss]

Its not as tanky as you dont dump rage into IP as much

And try to get damage out of Revenge

[uncut dome]

Aaah makes sence

Cant decide if I wanna continue on p war or go prot pala for the easy score

[strong forum]

I very much think it does

Let's say you got 3 melee dps

Each doing a modest 2mil overall

That's 300k dps from just bshout

[tardy abyss]

But who runs 3 melees

Except bansherz

[strong forum]

Squishvegan and his full non-meta comp

For example

[tardy abyss]

ye thats Bansherz

[strong forum]

Ic

Well non-pally non-disc groups don't need Aug

[tardy abyss]

In that specific scenario youre right yes

With just 2 melees + aug which is meta, it wouldnt exactly make up for it

But come somewhat close I guess

[strong forum]

Aug isn't required for pwar + non-disc healer

So you can run the 3rd dps

Critcakes comp for example is also triple melee

[tardy abyss]

Just make colossus playable for highkeys

[strong forum]

It needs jesus for that

[tardy abyss]

Make IP autocast revenge with less effectiveness

Fixed

But at that point might as well just remove Thane

[fresh pilot]

Is prot pally that much better now?

[tardy abyss]

Only if you know how to play it

[wicked pollen]

i think having 40 second wings and bubble plus infinite cc and util + damage makes a class broken

seeing an otp play that spec is so fucking crazy vs fotm players

[fresh pilot]

How so, is it harder to play than prot warr? or similar, i likely wont change, but might make an alt at some point 😄

[tardy abyss]

Its just easier to fuck up on ppal

And if you dont use the utility it provides then you might as well just play pwar

[uncut dome]

The utility is what makes it super broken

And the kicks

[tardy abyss]

In a decent group you dont really die because of missed kicks

[uncut dome]

Nope but its just a nice extra item

And then sac is god

[tardy abyss]

I guess

[untold bane]

Roar? Not champion's spear?

[tardy abyss]

Whichever you play, most play spear

With low crit roar is better

[half sapphire]

I like brain dead roar, fuck the tiny circle

[tardy abyss]

I like using spear for adds in NW / ara

[untold bane]

I mousover cast it it's no problem

[fresh pilot]

Same here, my only problem is loosing track of cursor in fights 😛

[round wolf]

I use a Cursor WeakAura

[unkempt sundial]

Hey, i only do 10s/11s, i was wondering anyone has a good collosus build for that? or is the one on wowhead fine?

[chilly brook]

“Easy score” brother I’m playing aug on my evoker just to chase that “easy score” I promise you it’s not that free

You’re still bricking 90% of keys because of other people

[uncut dome]

Yes very true

[chilly brook]

And waiting a long ass time between keys

[valid needle]

Just find a dedicated group to play with

[sweet summit]

just buy a house

[chilly brook]

I would love to

[valid needle]

I mean, it's not that hard finding people that wanna actively push, it's more so the question of "do we mesh well together as a group"

[strong forum]

i scream confused into my teammates ear that i lost my cursor

way more content

[valid needle]

I did this yesterday

[wild chasm]

I thought you use your cursor to parry enemy's attacks hence your title

[valid needle]

Was also screaming at a pug healer that was not on discord... My schizo tendencies coming out

[tardy abyss]

I always put my cursor in the middle of my screen before I use right click for my camera, so I never lose it 😎

Or just be yoda and have it super fat and make it glow

[strong forum]

nah my brainwaves are enough for that

[wild chasm]

internal screaming

[chilly brook]

Honestly it’s probably easier to push io as a tank

While Aug gets invites to keys, you’re super limited by the other people in your group more so than any other spec. I love doing everything right but dps just don’t press buttons so my damage is poop….

[lofty warren]

Is mt still best for m+ after reset buffa?

[round pendant]

Happens as tank or healer too though

pushing keys sucks with pugs

there's a high chance to just get 1 or 2 mouthbreathers

[jaunty reef]

Any of yall got a good route for a dawnbreaker?

Trying to time 12s at this point

Oh I guess Kiratank has a video of a 13

[round wolf]

That's the way

[untold bane]

i use starcursor + cursortrail

[chilly brook]

Nah not to the same extent at all

As a tank or healer you are in control of what you’re supposed to do

[round pendant]

It doesn't matter, other people are equally as capable of making the key untimeable

[chilly brook]

If someone dies because they’re taking unhealable damage that’s not your fault and you can’t do anything about it. You’ve succeeded as a healer as long as you keep everyone else alive. Same as a tank, if you’re pressing your defensives etc. you’re not dying and doing damage you’re exceeding your role.

[round pendant]

Either way, if you're good you're solidifying 1 out of 5 slots in a party

[chilly brook]

As Aug I can press everything properly, and somehow my eruption is my top damage, I’m just failing as a dps

And it’s not even my fault

It’s the only spec in the game where its role is dependent on others

Like 9/10 times I would be better off playing dev in keys but dev doesn’t get invites

[wicked pollen]

just join aug

swap before

🙂

[chilly brook]

Like I end keys at like 1.8m as dev, meanwhile most of my aug keys are like 1.0-1.2 because people don’t press buttons. Then I get the occasional key where people actually press buttons and I end at like 1.5

[golden dagger]

I’m the best prot war in here probably

I timed a 9 so

[chilly brook]

It’s also funny watching people think they know anything about evoker

did you just send breath of eons????

Yes my guy, you don’t hold it as scale commander

It gets CDR lmao

[jaunty reef]

In which dungeons are you using Bitter Immunity over Rumbling Earth?

[chilly brook]

Just be a dorf

[weak cedar]

would you guys say mountain thane or colossus is better for a beginner? after reading wowhead and icyveins, it looks like mountain thane is tankier but requires more speed / good use of procs, while colossus is a bit less tankier but the rotation is slower/easier?

[lofty warren]

Is mt still best for m+ after reset buffa?

[chilly brook]

Thane

[chilly brook]

Yes

[tardy abyss]

Both have pretty much the same rotation, as colossus you simply have a button more you press every now and then

Well, as colossus you also press revenge more often if you dont need IP

Meaning its actually harder since you have to know when its safe not to dump rage into IP

[mighty valley]

yeah, thane is just normal prot warrior slightly faster

it's also possible to fuck up positioning on your demolish casts

nothing's super hard but thane is just v simple

[violet ginkgo]

speaking of colossus the demolish aoe is cone or something? how wide and extend to how far?

[strong forum]

According to my calculations that might be actually be true

[weak cedar]

wait the fucking wowhead writer is here

wtf

[strong forum]

It's hard to describe, but it's really short

And not wide either

[strong forum]

[jagged pier]

Wait until he finds out the icy veins writer is in here too

[violet ginkgo]

wait until he also finds out archi is the writer for dps specs

[strong forum]

Like it's hard to gauge demolish tbh it's infront of you and around your target type deal

I think it's easiest to imagine it like a smaller revenge cone

So not 180° but more like 90 or 100°

[golden dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/no-big-deal-sid-how-i-met-your-father-it's-not-a-serious-matter-no-biggie-gif-18218254669920707618

[solar hill]

Any tips for NW first pull. getting somewhat clapped in the back when going down to portalkeeper

Is it just strafe all the way or should I tag first pack and leap down

[strong forum]

Charge into first pack, TC, leap to where you wanna go revenge/tc that pack and use the movspeed from leap to get to where you wanna go, if you want additional packs in. Like the big pack infront of boss you can slam Ravager in there if you didn't pull that pack already

With sending Ravager to pull a far pack for you, you guarantee threat on yourself on the entire pull without the chance of a stray bolt going to your healer

[jaunty reef]

Is that the standard pulling method, Charge TC --> Leap Revenge/TC --> Charge Shield Slam/TC

[covert basalt]

hi i wanna learn tanking is prot warr good option for that?

[strong forum]

Yeah

Pwar is the most tank tank there is

You learn everything there is to learn as pwar, positioning, what type of dmg you're dealing with and cd management

While also still being easy to play

[lofty warren]

How much less damage it will do compared to ppal after it gets nerfed?

[strong forum]

Depends how much dmg you do now

[solar hill]

Dope, thanks 😄 just what i needed

[jaunty reef]

Hmm Archon talents doesnt really use Ravager, but I guess its specific to routes/seasons where Ravager is used

Rest is cookie cutter opener/pull method

[strong forum]

Nah its people playing dumb builds

It's the trickle down effect

[lofty warren]

On average?

[strong forum]

That build you see on archon is the build yoda played really really early season

[lofty warren]

Like assuming ppl are doing the correct thing what's the dps diff

[strong forum]

So then everyone copied yoda

[jaunty reef]

Same with ITF/HR discussion?

[chilly brook]

just because some people are stupid doesn't mean you have to be

[strong forum]

Even if yoda himself didn't even play that build anymore

But that build was popular, so people copied more

And now it's a case of people copying the copied build

Same deal with itf/hr yes

[jaunty reef]

Yeah, where else would I look then? IcyV, Wowhead and other shit is supposedly outdated too

way to be an ass when I just ask a question lol

[covert basalt]

thanks are there any prot streamers/youtubers?

[chilly brook]

According to what?

Hey @strong forum is wowhead outdated?

[strong forum]

Sense - nurfed on Youtube

Dunno anyone else that still plays protwarrior

And does content

[chilly brook]

Would be wild for wowhead to be outdated when nothing substantial has changed

[strong forum]

Last I checked nah

[chilly brook]

Hey @jagged pier is IV outdated?

[jaunty reef]

I guess it depens on who answers your questions then, because its a rotation of Maxroll, IcyVeins, Archon, someother website i forgot and Wowhead being outdated or people beign told where to look

One weeks its "look maxroll" next week its "Look icyv", next week its "Look Archon" rofl

[strong forum]

When it comes to pwar on wowhead, you can expect it to be very much up to date

[chilly brook]

tf is maxroll?

[jaunty reef]

my bad for asking a question in here instead

[jaunty reef]

Have you played other MMORPGs?

[strong forum]

I praised the maxroll guide early on but they sadly started copying the most popular build instead now

So I can't recommend the talent recommendation atleast

But the rest of it shouldn't have changed

[jaunty reef]

Yeah I get that

[chilly brook]

The problem with using (insert website here) that is just a regurgitation of whatever the "top" players are using is that there is no context.

[jagged pier]

Thats because they copy and pasted your guide

[strong forum]

[chilly brook]

You don't know why they did what they did

Much less whether or not it's even good

[jaunty reef]

Yup.
Cut to me asking a question here, and you insinuating I'm stupid when I tried to do my research beforehand lol

[strong forum]

Tbf I can't know if they copied, but that also doesn't matter

Cuz what was written is the universal truth in how to play

So it's hard to make it not sound copied

Cuz it's just the facts

[chilly brook]

I'm not saying you are stupid

[jagged pier]

Brah there was proof they did it to nearly every guide on wowhead we can say quite strongly they probably did

[strong forum]

Probable cause yes

[chilly brook]

It's just a common problem that consistantly happens

[lofty warren]

How much would colassas need to be buffer to be better than mt in m+?

[chilly brook]

It's why the builds on Archon are run

[jagged pier]

It already is in some sense, it isnt in others

[lofty warren]

They keep buffing it but it's still always worse

[chilly brook]

even though they're bad

[strong forum]

It needs rage gen or something that converts dmg into ignore pain

It's already very much ahead in dmg

But it needs ways to maintain IP as easily as thane

Only then it's comparable

[lofty warren]

If I wanted to be super squishy and scared about getting 1 shot on tank hits I'd play ppal

[strong forum]

Or it needs leech

Inside it's tree

Cuz then you just cosplay vdh

And leech like a mf

[jaunty reef]

Whats the cut-off for ITF being better than HR?

[strong forum]

I wanna say at ~18k haste you can comfortably play ITF

[jaunty reef]

And Battle-scared Veteran is not that good compared to Ravager when pushing higher keys?

[jaunty reef]

Are we supposed to have that? I got 12K lol

[strong forum]

BSV is a pseudo cheat death that can be useful, but is extremely costly to pick up. To the point of making you squishier to pick up a talent that supposed to make you tankier

Ravager provides a huge amount of aoe dmg and threat and a good chunk of rage gen, so you lose 4-5% dmg by sacrificing that

Shield charge grants dmg rage a stun and SB uptime

Outburst is literally spec enabling

Booming voice is massive rage gen and dmg gain for thane

Indom is what keeps you alive

Enduring Alacrity is 8% stam 8% armor and 2% haste, also must have

So you literally can only drop survivability to gain a different kind of survivability.

I myself would never play bsv unless I strictly need to play and plan around it to have it ready for 1 specific thing

Like say 1st pull NW, it is probably quite useful, but I'd then talent out of it after the pull as you kite back to the entrance, quickly dip out and back in

[jaunty reef]

Those are really good points, thanks a lot

[lofty warren]

That is only if you are scared of dying on the nw pull I guess

[strong forum]

It is the hardest pull of the season by several magnitudes

[jaunty reef]

Theres no point to Bitter Immunity in this M+ rotation? I also see you like both points Champions Might and Piercing Challenge - Instead of say Honed Reflexes, Overwhelming Rage, BI or another point in Endurance Training

The short answer is better rage gen?

[lofty warren]

How big are you pulling? The mdi pull up to boss or just the guys on the front ?

[strong forum]

If you play spear, you play both might + challenge otherwise you're losing dmg

5% stam random stamina is not worth the large dmg increase on spear
Honed reflexes is 1 second of CDR, literally a meme

Overwhelming rage does nothing

[strong forum]

3 packs + Gatekeeper

Some pallys even pull 2 gatekeepers

[jaunty reef]

You play Sidearm too, better rage gen too or better damage?

[strong forum]

Just free damage

1.8% on average

There's hardly other nodes that do provide dmg or surv

So sidearm is just free

[jaunty reef]

Thanks for answering my questions

[viscid patrol]

hey guys, is it possible to macro avatar + ravager + spear? Or it doesnt make sense

[mighty valley]

Doesn't make sense to macro two gcd abilities

can't cast ravager and spear simultaneously

[viscid patrol]

but avatar and something else? OR does avatar have gcd

[mighty valley]

you CAN macro avatar with other abilities but it has a variable cooldown so you want it on its own bind

since you basically always press it as soon as it's up

[lofty warren]

Why are they nerfing ppal when vdh is all over the mdi?

[mighty valley]

mdi doesn't matter for balance

it's just speedrunning

[viscid patrol]

can u recommend me a WA for a prot pal? Like the main WA , i come from bdk and used from luxthos

[strong forum]

i dont recommend macroing avatar to anything

the only thing you can do is macro TC to avatar cuz avatar resets thunderclap

but that could waste TCs if you want to send Avatar mid charge

[primal onyx]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CfRHm6JL8GTXBjcr#fight=last

Healer stood in every frontal but called my death "caused by being a shitty war tank"

[sweet egret]

#showtooltip
/cast Avatar
/cast Blood Fury
/cast [@cursor] Ravager
/use [@cursor] 13

[sweet egret]

colossus does more dmg, the loss is taking too much (for high end keys)

[sweet egret]

you can use shield wall as you're going in, shield charge to get shield block up instantly

[sweet egret]

you hit revenge as 2nd prio after shield slam when playing colossus in m+

[weak cedar]

how big of a difference is being hit from behind in this game? can it ruin a pull or is it just annoying

[mighty valley]

huge

you can't block or parry when you're not facing

[sweet egret]

it's not really worth it unless you're cutting edge pushing, it's just so much safer to have 100% shield block in my opinion

[half sapphire]

In raids it’s okay to drop shield block, as long as you’re not tankin, so always itf in raid. But M+ you need 100%.

[sweet egret]

people are so obsessed with itf even though it is not a major buff and the cost can be dire :()

[rocky crest]

anyone else struggling in 14's ? or is just me being dog shit. 13's went fine for some reason. I feel the step is abit too big

Might be me tbh. kinda lost the edge lately, all I see is palas everywhere I sign

[round pendant]

It is a major buff

and there's no cost if you have correct base haste

[glacial skiff]

BSV is invaluable in keys 12+. You can plan around it and the 80% DR, but it really sucks when it procs when you don’t want it to.

[flint tiger]

wait, we need 18K base haste with no flasks/buffs before we can start with ITF over HR?

[jagged pier]

Thats when u should do it
Doesnt mean ppl havent done it befoee that point

[rocky crest]

so BSV isn't a thing after 12 anymore ?

Ravager would be nice to get back in rotation tbh

been out of the loop for some weeks

[rocky crest]

What cost are you referring to ?

[jagged pier]

Never was a thing to begin with ppl just copied the ppl that went before

[glacial skiff]

I would argue BSV being mandatory in 12+’s. Timers too short to wait for cds and too many pulls have insane tankbusters.

[jagged pier]

So what u doing when bsv is down? Waiting for it?

[viscid patrol]

guys can i macro the orc racial with some spell playing as prot?

[jagged pier]

For cause your cs gunna come bqck faster without it

[steep escarp]

Can someone share their general opener in m+? I've been having a hard time holding aggro and I'm not sure if it's a gearing issue or rotation issue

[glacial skiff]

It really helps having the extra help when you either fuck up, run out of cds, or plan around proccing BSV

[rocky crest]

normally it's SC, TC, avatar, TC , ss , tc revenge as filler

[glacial skiff]

You don’t need BSV for every pack, but you do need something for every tankbuster pack. Sometimes multiple cds. A good example is right before skarmorak in stone vault. I forget the name but the tankbuster they cast kills, you can reflect the 1st but you can’t reflect every one.

[jagged pier]

Cool so u have sw for every other

Or sw and spell block for the ones u cant get

[glacial skiff]

Ahh despoiler shadow claw

[sharp gale]

I doubt these guys are a good reason for bsv

More the dmg amp little guys, because mistakes happens

If you want reasons

[jagged pier]

Spell block covers multiple of them

So dont see why u would need bsv

[glacial skiff]

SW still a fairly long cd. I died to them last night in a +14 after proccing BSV the pack before.

[jagged pier]

Its 40-50s

Spell block is 30 second duration

Sr is a 20 cd

If u sr fisrt then sw then spell blockd

[sharp gale]

You know you are not supposed to facetank them at some point ? (Dmg amp SV guys)

[jagged pier]

U would have sr back and then sw back for the next 2

[chilly brook]

Brother I

[glacial skiff]

I did kite eventually to force their aoe because I ran out of cds when I got brz’d but our comp doesn’t really like kiting

[chilly brook]

I've tanked a 12 at 616

I didn't need it

[glacial skiff]

Cool

[chilly brook]

BSV is not "invaluable"

[glacial skiff]

No high pushing tank is going without BSV

PERIOD

[jagged pier]

I dunno sounds like u didnt plan your cds properly

Then claimed u needed bsv

[chilly brook]

Or you could like

[jagged pier]

12s arent high buddeh

[chilly brook]

just press buttons

Class is silly tanky if you're pressing CDs properly

[glacial skiff]

I didn’t plan the pack properly. Thought our dps would be quicker on the one before and and I’d have 20ish seconds left on spell block so I pulled despoiler into despoiler

Unfortunately didn’t and I should’ve pulled the pack without despoiler 1st and let it pat in, or pull it into hallway to allow cdr

[chilly brook]

Why chain a despoiler into another despoiler tho

[half sapphire]

I mean isn’t that one an easy spell reflect shield wall rotation?

[chilly brook]

Ye

[sharp gale]

Tbh I would not explaintaking bsv with regulars trashs mechs, more with like lot of mistakes happening mechs (gatekeeper pull, GB)

[glacial skiff]

Did I say I chained it?

I didn’t fyi

[chilly brook]

You said you pulled despoiler into despoiler?

[glacial skiff]

Yeah after it died

[chilly brook]

I'm just reading what you said lol

[glacial skiff]

I also could’ve if it would’ve died before casting aoe/shadow claw

[chilly brook]

You can SR like every other shadow claw

[cyan bronze]

YASSS PERIODT SLAYY

U sound like a dumbass bro

[glacial skiff]

You can literally every other shadow claw

[cyan bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/orange-cat-bite-orange-cat-orange-cat-attack-gif-10142361798712867466

Bsv is gas if you think bsv is gas

There are keys higher than your max keystone completed without bsv

Go next argument

[glacial skiff]

I don’t care. Those prot wars doing highest keys are using BSV. It’s safer than not.

[cyan bronze]

Then play it

[sharp gale]

They are a key higher than my max keystone completed without a healer, should I go without a healer then ?

[cyan bronze]

And stop whining in a discord

[cyan bronze]

Yah id prefer that than whining in a discord saying xyz talent is mandatory

[glacial skiff]

Also kinda weird people here don’t like honed reflexes. Sure it’s 1s less spell reflect but it def helps cdr with SW

[cyan bronze]

It’s like 1-2 sec off sw

On avg

On low cdr environments it can be 3-5 I believe

[sharp gale]

Idk they just see archon or smth, what can you do 🤷‍♂️

[cyan bronze]

I just don’t think the talent is worth what I give up for it

The talent is good if you need that extra bit of SW cdr

I find that I have never needed that little amount of cdr comparative to how much I need another talent

You like, don’t have to hive mind everything

[half sapphire]

I personally am a disrupting shout enjoyer, fuck spell block garbage talent. I help team instead

[cyan bronze]

Typically, you give up bleed rage gen

[half sapphire]

Oh I gave that up too

[cyan bronze]

Link tree

Are you taking bolster>spell block?

[sharp gale]

I want to watch that in my couch with a glass of whine

[half sapphire]

I don’t like pushing past 12’s but yeah I bolster https://raider.io/characters/us/black-dragonflight/Litis

[cyan bronze]

Depending on the key it’s fine

Spell block really good

[glacial skiff]

What’s SW CD? It’s over 2 mins, at 2 mins it’s 6s

[sharp gale]

He tanks in arms spec

[cyan bronze]

Are you dense

[chilly brook]

And this is just proof that anyone can get 2700

[cyan bronze]

See: single SW talent
See: anger management

[chilly brook]

potentially 40ish seconds???

[cyan bronze]

I lowkey can graph it on desmos later for you

If you need

Lol

[glacial skiff]

That 5% is applied to the base cd i’m pretty sure

[cyan bronze]

Right

[glacial skiff]

Using double SW Talent it’s over 2 min cd

[chilly brook]

Oh no

[glacial skiff]

Which is 6+s

[cyan bronze]

Actualized cdr is reduced when it’s cdr’d

[sharp gale]

If you want his build

[chilly brook]

Double shield wall build

[cyan bronze]

Honed reflex does gain value with double SW fwiw

[chilly brook]

You do realize how much you lose out by running that right?

[weak cedar]

are there any dedicated discords where i could send a recording of a full m+ clear and then a veteran player would review it?

or is that not rly common in this game

[chilly brook]

this one

[glacial skiff]

I don’t care about the math if I can’t survive shit without it

[chilly brook]

Jakey loves vod reviews

[cyan bronze]

You can

[glacial skiff]

In 14’s/15’s

[cyan bronze]

Again

Play the game

[jagged pier]

No they dont they just copy what the top guy is doing who also puts not much thought into it or needs it for one sepcific pull

[chilly brook]

But you can man....

[cyan bronze]

If you like a build play it

[jagged pier]

Even tho they never press it back to back

[sharp gale]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ntVkHprxmQvA3BZb#fight=68&type=summary&source=1125
if you search full talents of this Chad build

[cyan bronze]

Even if it’s worse generally

[final mist]

If you can't survive without 2x Shield Wall, that doesn't make the talent good, that means you aren't playing well

[cyan bronze]

If you are making good use of double shield wall

The talent is fine imo

[chilly brook]

It's like really only worth it if you need 2 shield walls in the span of 30 seconds

[cyan bronze]

Almost all the logs I see of people using double sw

[final mist]

Top people in keys don't generally go by what actually is best

[cyan bronze]

Are not using double sw effectively

[final mist]

They do what feels best

[cyan bronze]

See: bear start of this tier

[sharp gale]

FEEL

[cyan bronze]

And that’s fine, by the way

[chilly brook]

feelycraft is massive in high keys tbh

[cyan bronze]

If keys get timed on something that feels good

Key gets timed

[final mist]

Sure, but the thing is

[cyan bronze]

I dislike it when theirs a conflation between timing keys and efficiency

[final mist]

Going around saying "this is best because x top player is doing it" is just

Wrong 9 times out of 10

Is the point being made here

[cyan bronze]

Yep

[tribal wharf]

its been that way since always

[cyan bronze]

Double SW feels incredibly good when you do make good use of double SW

btw

[final mist]

Most people do not

[cyan bronze]

It’s just 90% of people running it

[final mist]

Its a wasted talent

[cyan bronze]

Will never ever use it

And I do like double sw in some dungeons

Necrotic wake stands out, but again¿ feelcraft

[tribal wharf]

i like the play of 2 shield walls way more than 1 shield walls

[jagged pier]

Ive seen top tanks not use sw back to back for a whole key, so they wasted a talent

[sharp gale]

Think more of 99,9% because it’s only the top 100 who know why they take it

[chilly brook]

I mean the insane stuff you can do at the start it makes sense

[edgy bone]

Can anyone explain to me if skyterror corrosive organ is good?

[tribal wharf]

i would be okay if we had 2 shield wall charges baseline like as in the talent

[chilly brook]

no one would complain if it was free

but it's not

[tardy abyss]

In a decent group you don't even need it in NW

[jagged pier]

Its less than the top 100

Its 1 person knows why they took it to begin with

[chilly brook]

That depends entirely on the pull you're doing tbf

[jagged pier]

It then filtered down

[sharp gale]

You need it for the gatekeeper pull or kite sooner

But most don’t do the pull in the first case

[tardy abyss]

You don't

Unless you pull 3x vanguards

Which is hard to tank even with double SW

[chilly brook]

Peeps be out here pulling the whole room into the boss