This screen snipit is Details, so it is rather weird with stuff.
#protection
pallid quiver
"Just playing" doesn't help a lot of people actually improve, since it removes their focus on building the actual muscle memory of doing the thing. It's a sort of bias that comes from someone who's already established about how hard that actually is. You and me, we can probably pick that basic part of playing a spec up on a class we've never touched in a day, at worst. It really shows up in fighting games, since what people struggle with a lot mentally is the basic functioning of "How do thing"
It's really easy for me to do a quarter circle, but it takes actual focus for some of the friends I teach to do an input that, effectively, is just the 4 same buttons in a row
Just playing will get you used to running into scenarios, but it doesn't help with the base function. It's like combos in fight games. Just playing doesn't really fix the base execution unless you've already grinded that out. Being in a match can make your execution worse, which is why you train it outside, so you can pull out the tools when something's happening
worn hazel
tulip oar
👍
inner plank
I see many messages about Outburst, what talent to you give up on to get it ?
tardy abyss
You shouldnt "give up" a talent for it because its so good to have
tardy abyss
I see many messages about Outburst, what talent to you give up on to get it ?
The question is what else did you take instead of that
pallid quiver
^^^
Outburst is the default
And should pretty much never be given up because of how much rage gen it gives you
tardy abyss
Get rid of BSV and take Outburst
Ravager does a lot of damage and generates a lot of rage
boreal oak
BSV is training wheels (I still use it myself)
pallid quiver
If you want to get BSV, you give up Ravager or SC+Bulwark; if the latter, you use the 2nd point to get Bolster
Outburst is way too good to give up in comparison
wooden widget
In this case, you’ve removed a wheel for another airbag. And prot has 5 airbags already
wooden widget
I’d suggest getting a weak aura to track it. Sometimes you need to plan 1-2 global in advance to make sure you spend your outburst on shield slam
pallid quiver
Does Outburst have any visual cue ?
It has a buff in the upper right corner 🙂
Really, like Key says, you should grab a WA to track it; Nome's WA suite has a very good outburst tracker
That being said, it's better to have outburst at all and just have it send at all than to not have it at all
tribal wharf
what happened
pallid quiver
Do you mean to your health bar? The beep? Or to the mage?
tardy abyss
Im confused too
marble cipher
I assume you mean "what did he die to 100-0?"
That would be standing in a puddle most likely
marble cipher
Yeah, looking again, it's not 100-0, he died to the dot
pallid quiver
He also ran out of chain heal jump range
tardy abyss
But considering he was below tank damage he probably was a bit overwhelmed lmao
marble cipher
He's one of those players on that boss that goes "oh, blue balls give dps increase, gotta catch'em all"
tardy abyss
I didnt know a 13 seconds clip could show so many mistakes at once
tribal wharf
mage died to i have no clue what
marble cipher
to mistakes.
tardy abyss
Dot
tribal wharf
like, wtf the mage even take dmg to, seems like the second the purplr ring goes out he loses 40% his hp
tardy abyss
Shards do aoe damage and leave a dot on everyone
strong forum
probably also had stacks from the orb
tribal wharf
well, that was practically, the end of the key
marble cipher
orb stacks are ticking on him yeah
tribal wharf
it very quickly crumbled from that point
tardy abyss
And that was a +9 lmao
marble cipher
best to go that boss first in pugs I've noticed, saves you time trying to complete it 😄
tardy abyss
No surprise people struggle at 10s and 12s with people like that
marble cipher
First pull is a clear gauge on how the key will go, then that boss, if all that went well, chances are it'll be timed (if your ranged kicks are ready for duo boss)
tribal wharf
i wonder if they think its the faster they kill the add the faster the orb comes out so they can collect it for dps
no idea, he collected at least 2
tardy abyss
You dont even need orbs until intermission
tribal wharf
so its literal an int for the whole team to touch them before the shield
tardy abyss
Shortly before shield yeah
tribal wharf
and just stablized time between kill them so dont kill the group
tardy abyss
If you collect the first orbs right away the buff may even run out
marble cipher
I think you can extend it by waiting to get the next orb, but, doesn't matter, you only want them during shield mainly, healer might like them throughout the fight, but even that's not needed
tribal wharf
used to be twins gave me alot more problems in pugs
marble cipher
yup, it switched to that boss now
tardy abyss
Skarmorak was heavily nerfed already
marble cipher
Yeah, but still needs brains to kill, more than duo boss imo
tardy abyss
I find every boss pretty free but the timer is still tight
marble cipher
popping three crystals in pugs happens way too often
tribal wharf
duo fight is a pain in myt ass
marble cipher
then again, popping 3 spikes on first boss every time is also a big yikes 😄
tardy abyss
Some specs are unhappy about 2 already 
marble cipher
fair haha
tardy abyss
Edna puts our aug in pain
marble cipher
What's an "aug", never seen one in any of my groups so far 😄
tardy abyss
Considering their strength theyre actually quite rare
Prob because you dont need them to push
round pendant
what happened
bro your interrupt tracker and tooltip are in eachothers spot
tardy abyss
I didnt even know that theres are WAs that tell you how much phys and magic dmg youve taken lol
tribal wharf
i never heard of book shrek until today
i heard of the 3d animated shrek but not this one
sharp pasture
When is it better to play colossus instead of Mountain Thane in raid?
Do you depend on any stats?
tribal wharf
the stuff where it does like....... hmmm ill check if i have the video
sharp pasture
St Mountain Thane and aoe Colossus?
tribal wharf
this is an example, but the one i really mean is it takes up this much space
but it says like defeat this dungeon raid, 0/1 and then it lists it for every single person in raid who has to do it
i would rather it just be "you and 19 party members are trying to complete this objective.", while you are fighting a monster. showing this other loot and lore section out of combat is no consequence
might try classic fresh on launch, didnt do the first classic at all
wooden widget
By first classic do you mean 2004
oak ivy
im giga late to this discussion but i think mage got hit by a swirlie
tribal wharf
thats what i dont like about mages, or that i dont trust
they have underwear for armor
1 melee from virtually anything and they instantly die
marble cipher
they have an awesome defensive toolkit though
tribal wharf
having mage is fun till mage gets meleed
marble cipher
if a mage gets meleed it's his own fault mostly (or aggro issue)
mirror image, alter time, barrier, mass barrier, (cauterize as fire...), ice block (or the other talent they usually play now)...
So many defensive stuff, but, nothing saves a mage if he plays like ass (stands in shit, picks up too many orb debuffs on that boss, etc...)
tribal wharf
well, and he has less armor, so he has even less chance to survive it if a big melee goes through
cyan bronze
Man it would be really neat if mage had a threat reduction tool in their kit for that reason
marble cipher
I know right! 😛
tribal wharf
i get hit for 5 million with plate, so whats it going to do to him
i cant tell if any of the mages i run with use mass barrier or not
marble cipher
I'd give my left nut to have the same defensives as a mage on my boomie.... now THAT's a spec that can fall over
tribal wharf
that seems like it would be really overpowered or mass invis for skips
marble cipher
i cant tell if any of the mages i run with use mass barrier or not
usually all of them do, iirc
cyan bronze
I'd give my left nut to have the same defensives as a mage on my boomie.... now ...
Man I would kill to be able to have a large defensive on 0 cd
cyan bronze
I know right! 😛
Something like this would really help the mage toolkit https://www.wowhead.com/spell=321686/mirror-image
tribal wharf
can i just say, fuck the beyond the regular ass blink meta for mages
its like xyz link summon in yugioh i was about to type pokemon
it can just fuck off to me, too complicated and im too boomer to get it
cyan bronze
True
ionic yoke
Oh, I know why the mage died. Ragnaros player.
rough egret
whoop whoop,
over50% with ITF 😄
ionic yoke
What a gigachad
ionic yoke
whoop whoop,
over50% with ITF 😄
I'm curious, what's the cd on your Tclap
inner oracle
Using this, works fine up to 12, didnt test in 13+ yet
3d pull I'm dwarf + playing with aug for bleed removal, and if patrol is away I just wait them to body pull so that the bomber is as close as possible
round wolf
I was in a key last night
Ret Pally and Mage DPS and Resto Druid
Everytime someone blew the orbs the ads moved a bit and all threat got dropped
I didn't think Typhoon could do that
Full threat they get knocked
No threat
So if people blast before I get it back it's sweaty
golden dagger
when is best time to use defensives for prot warriors (newbie here take it easy on me haha)
do you use certain ones before others? certain ones only when beeping red
etc etc
round wolf
I mean at a super high level DBM will yell at you
If you want that
You always want to have Ignore Pain and Sheild Block Up
tropic marsh
Soo...how much haste is too much haste lol
round wolf
People macro Sheild Slam with Ignore Pain or Sheild Block to help with uptime
lone hearth
Does anyone know if theres a way to control where the eggs spawn as a tank during the first boss of arakara?
round wolf
I think Paladin has a higher Top Dungeon
But Warr is Strong
Unless your a top end player in which case you wouldn't be asking
golden dagger
i enjoy tanking but need to learn the dungeons better. I really only know stone vault and dawn
im not a top end anything lol
tropic marsh
Warrior will be easier to learn
round wolf
Just work in Maintaining uptime
tropic marsh
You have way less externals
round wolf
Of IP and SB
round wolf
As much as they can be
round wolf
You want it always rolling
golden dagger
on cd use it got it. i always thought it was for oh shit moments haha
like a big pull or big boss
round wolf
Sheild Wall maybe
golden dagger
sorry shield wall
round wolf
But not Block
tropic marsh
oohh
golden dagger
yes shield wall sorry
round wolf
Use it when you feel scared as a new tank
golden dagger
not block
golden dagger
true. goal is to stay alive! lol
round wolf
Till you know what you can and can't eat
ionic yoke
Never leave a dungeon with all your defensives off cd
round wolf
That's one of the only CDs I hold for. Oh shit but 2 charges makes it easier as you always have it
I use avatar and Spell Block on CD
golden dagger
yeah i get the 2 charges
round wolf
Rather get there benefits them hold for a certain circumstances
round pendant
I wouldn't take double shield wall
with the other talent, Shield Wall CD can be as low as 40s
tropic marsh
Uh, I would study the dungeons so you know what the tankbusters are and use wall against those not just to send it 😛
golden dagger
oh shit whats that one called? that may be the play
round pendant
oh shit whats that one called? that may be the play
On the same node as the double shield wall
it's a choice
Impenetrable Wall
round pendant
The double wall can be useful for fixing mistakes on bosses, but you end up with less SW's over the span of the dungeon
golden dagger
makes sense
golden dagger
well i cant post a picture in here
but i changed talent and it says 4m cooldown
3.5 sorry
ionic yoke
If you're playing Thane then it's best to play single Wall. You get a lot of SS resets for it
golden dagger
i switched to that talent and it seems thec ooldown is way higher than 40 sec haha
round pendant
I just explained how it's shorter than it seems
obsidian frost
But my CD still says 3.5m!!!!
golden dagger
lol relax flavor
round pendant
fwiw idk how any of this applies to raid, since I don't raid tank
there might be bosses that are good to use double wall on, idk
strong forum
historically there was only 1 boss so far
and that was mythic broodkeeper
outside of that youre turbo trolling in raid
round pendant
yeah makes sense
strong forum
(also m+ but ah well)
golden dagger
thanks @round pendant @round wolf
cyan bronze
shield wall talent in raid? sounds like a dps loss to me
ionic yoke
Single Wall is best for everything 
cyan bronze
not true
double wall is better for when u want to hit ur shift 2 button twice back to back
and then not again for an entire expac
also in a route like this maybe double wall is better
lone hearth
sharp gale
That’s exactly how my routes are in mdt when a patch launch
mighty valley
yeah it's a lot worse unless you know you're doing some absolutely massive pull to start the dungeon where you need both back to back to survive
otherwise it's just way less rage and fewer total walls
tawdry crater
Authority of the depths still preferred weapon enchant or we going with radiant power?
gusty shore
Hello fellow Warriors, i posted a log in the review channel the other day...the conclusion was my shield block uptime is not high enough. I am training on a dummy right now and have the feeling a 100% uptime is not possible
tawdry crater
haste!
gusty shore
If I start with Charge, into Shield Charge, into Shield Block, i will have a couple of seconds close to the end of the shield charge cd before my shield block comes off cd again
I have 18.7k haste
potent pagoda
bait more slams with revenge
ocean nova
Hello fellow Warriors, i posted a log in the review channel the other day...the ...
Try to record some gameplay sometimes if you are dropping shield block while actively tanking thats a problem but if its like end of pack or between packs your usually fine
potent pagoda
he obviously knew i meant shield slam talking about heavy repercussions.
tribal wharf
Hello fellow Warriors, i posted a log in the review channel the other day...the ...
its more about 100% block of major hitting abilities that could be blocked
gusty shore
Try to record some gameplay sometimes if you are dropping shield block while act...
Good point, I will start recording my keys
tribal wharf
if a strong melee boss, cant think of any examples but im sure you guys could, maybe the first boss ara kara cuz it has 500% dmg or some shit right
tribal wharf
you 100000000% have to block those attacks, or parry, every single one of them
strong forum
your talents are certainly something
gusty shore
I changed my talent build at this point
tribal wharf
but if its just, a necro summons weak skeleton warrior and hes doing basic attack for 100k, its not important to block it
its not AS important to block it i should say
strong forum
okay
okay
you need to use revenge a whole lot more
14 revenge casts
in an entire key is not okay
gusty shore
Revenge wont keep me alive will it?
strong forum
absolutely it will
tribal wharf
yes but no
strong forum
cuz you dont have to AFK
tribal wharf
and hes about to tell you how
strong forum
what kills prot warrior is downtime in your rotation
ONLY spending rage on Ignore Pain is what will kill you
cuz your shield slam will not be ready
and you cant use any other buttons
because youre sitting afk twiddling thumbs
when youre at 40 rage and your shield slam is not ready
press revenge
do not press ignore pain
cuz this will be the result
4 seconds of doing NOTHING
best example here
in 10 full seconds
you only sent 7 buttons
for 4 seconds straight
between the shield slam and thunderclap
you were afk for 4 full seconds
similar thing here
afk for 2 full seconds
again afk for almost 3 full seconds
strong forum
you have things like this throughout the entire key
what should be your priority right now is get a constant rotation going
ima send you a comparison how your casts breakdown looks like and then mine
so you get a visual aid
gusty shore
Thats great insight! Thanks 🙂
tribal wharf
what is the rule if you do things correctly, maximum of 3 casts to get back SS still?
strong forum
way less as thane
gusty shore
What is the Prio then? ShieldSlam > Revenge if above 40 and SB up > Thundeclap > Revenge?
tribal wharf
revenge is literal just filler tier rage dump most cases,
strong forum
What is the Prio then? ShieldSlam > Revenge if above 40 and SB up > Thundeclap >...
treat revenge as your Shield Slam reset button
if you cant use Shield Slam, dont use Ignore Pain either unless its to not cap out rage
now i will say im not the best when it comes to useing ThunderClap frequently enough
but i think doing 1.3million DPS is excusable to not play ENTIRELY perfect, but really close to it
gusty shore
On It 🙂
strong forum
i think you should aim to get uhm lets say
hmm what would be fair for 624ilvl vs 5 dummies
lemme slap dummies RQ
tribal wharf
1 million dps?
gusty shore
Just did 970 but revenge was my second biggest dps spell
guess thats a little to much revenging
strong forum
YE
strong forum
try to make it look smth like this
while doing ~1mil dps consistent over like 5min
if you can manage that, without blindly spamming revenge and TC
and obv using shieldblock on CD
gusty shore
ye
strong forum
you should see a massive increase in your survivability
gusty shore
Nice thats what i am looking for
cunning berry
Is warcraft logs down right now?
strong forum
nah
cunning berry
I was gonna grab some logs for review and it tells me bad gateway or service unavailable
Huh, guess my interent is being dumb then LOL
cunning berry
Well once I can get me to load I'll post em lol
Got em posted down in log Reviews finally
strong forum
@sweet summit https://i.imgur.com/ALRSaic.png
imagine cheating
and still hard losing
cyan bronze
THATS A LOT OF PIE
cyan bronze
<@165864577760755712> https://i.imgur.com/ALRSaic.png
could be doing more with battering ram
cyan bronze
or actually what dmg point do you pick up for indom
strong forum
battering
cyan bronze
figured
round pendant
love how wcl just randomly goes down
ebon wren
coming back to warrior after a while. What's the deal with spear's popularity over roar? its an awfully long cd
chilly brook
But why
round pendant
still use it but it's never felt good
ebon wren
I hate not having it every pull (I use 45s roar)
round pendant
roar is just a better ability
ebon wren
ill try it. I loved in shadowlands, but largely because the cd was so much shorter and reduced with each enemy hit thing
strong forum
love how wcl just randomly goes down
lots of traffic rn cuz of some FF stuff
round pendant
they need to give spear like 50% more radius
tardy abyss
Does anyone know in how many ways you can skip the double guardians before last boss in SV
I know its possible with a druid but idk if there are more ways
round pendant
I can't decide if I want FTtF or BSC
ionic yoke
Spear sucks
chilly brook
Spear and roar are essentially interchangeable tbh in terms of gameplay
strong forum
cuz revenge is a small amount of your dmg
ionic yoke
What macro?
chilly brook
Cast @player
strong forum
/cast [known:384318]Thunderous Roar; [known:376079,@cursor]Champion's Spear
this one
chilly brook
Or that
ebon wren
but I already macro shield block and ignore pain 🧌
chilly brook
Personally never swapped off @player even though we no longer need to stand in it
ionic yoke
Ew, cursor
ebon wren
you dont have to stand in for the crit buff? niceee
ionic yoke
Personally never swapped off @player even though we no longer need to stand in i...
Maybe I've been too harsh on Spear it seems
Wait does it last 6 seconds still?
ionic yoke
Someone link Spear please
strong forum
?
sweet summit
<@165864577760755712> https://i.imgur.com/ALRSaic.png
jagged gust
it's only minor though right?
Personally roar sims like 500dps higher for me in dslice, and within the margin of error for ST
but I have weird stats from fury so the extra crit is apparently very juicy for me
strong forum
kinda workd
oblique garnet
<:peepohide:841312329424437298>
i taught you better than this
glad magnet
Is there a good resource or something for shield block? Not sure how to tell when I get value
For m+
violet ginkgo
What do you mean? Just keep shield block up and don’t let enemy hit you from behind
covert kayak
glad magnet
What do you mean? Just keep shield block up and don’t let enemy hit you from beh...
I’m a goof I mean spell block
Is that just let you block casted spells, all magic based attacks? When or how is it best to use.
mighty valley
There's a spreadsheet in pins that lists every ability it works on but basically it's most boss tankbusters and a lot of targeted mob casts
sweet summit
<a:bonkcat:664576102315851862> i taught you better than this
it is what it is...
oblique garnet
it is what it is...
left escarp
Does spell reflect do damage when reflecting Silken Tomb
flint tiger
Anyone know why some of the top prot wars (e.g.: Kirawarrior) doesn't use any onyx gems to maximize the blasphemite? Trying to understand the difference since the icy-veins says we should do for all unique gems except Amber
I know mastery isn't the greatest of the secondaries, but since all are pretty close for prot warriors would have thought we'd still get the onyx one too at least.
or is it probably a mistake?
shut summit
youll never get reflects that do damage in raid
not never but they almost always get fixed
feel like poison bolt and expulsion beam were forgotten about
strong forum
yeee tru ig
shut summit
fun defected etc
strong forum
meanwhile AMS
lofty warren
Are the 11.1 balance patch notes available?
strong forum
no
lol
thats not until december
basically after 11.0.7 release when 11.1 PTR comes out
thats when we get drip fed the first datamines
lofty warren
The patch notes or 11.1 comes in december?
flint tiger
is it bad if we double up on another gem instead of adding a Onyx one (e.g.: Mastery/haste)?
strong forum
whenever spring is
strong forum
is it bad if we double up on another gem instead of adding a Onyx one (e.g.: Mas...
no
shut summit
with huge warrior reworks 
strong forum
SHUUURELY
flint tiger
seems like a lot of warriors don't bother with the Onyx gem, so probably going to ignore the extra 0.15 CRIT dmg% lol
lofty warren
Oh I remember liking the motherload dungeon
flint tiger
basically just get at least 3/5 unique gems and maximize our haste via the other stats?
barren oar
Looks like motherlode
lofty warren
Not sure what the other retuning dungeons are
flint tiger
ok, just making sure it doesn't really matter
shut summit
it's such a monumentally small difference that it won't matter what gems you use
lofty warren
They should bring back motherload, maw of souls, and junkyard mechagon
barren oar
Mechagon was a flop tho
Who knows, it's probably in the workw with these recycled content
Id be thrilled if they brought back an azerite system or like multistrike tertiaries
lofty warren
No infinite grind. But essences could be good if they were account bound
shut summit
last 2 unknown dungeons of S2 are prolly shadowlands ones if i was a betting man
tribal wharf
plague fall is im quitting until 12.0
lofty warren
lofty warren
Did pwar have to spam pf for trinket? I know as dh you had to spam it
lofty warren
I bet cinderbrew will be mega aids in m+ and will have to get nerfed every week
shut summit
would be fun to run halls of atonement with spell block
shut summit
i shield charge the golem, leap tclap 2nd pack, charge avatar ravager tclap 3rd pack, heroic throw to bring in one of the golem packs
just don't get hit in the back is only thing that will mess you up
marble cipher
If I dare to bring in one more golem pack (your hc throw), I don't think anyone in my party will live
blazing condor
would be fun to run halls of atonement with spell block
honestly yeah that dungeon is gonna be much more fun for us with current kit
but im too jaded from wiping on 2nd boss in that dungeon
tribal wharf
not for me
no execute
execute any final (dungeon) boss of any video game is chef kiss
wait no, attonement sucks too
attonement is worse than plague fall or the dungeon im talkin of
lofty warren
Not gonna lie I didn't like hoa because all the routes were like "do 2 pulls for everything before boss 1" and then you have to waist invisible pot
round wolf
last 2 unknown dungeons of S2 are prolly shadowlands ones if i was a betting man
I want Maw of Souls and Freehold
blazing condor
Not gonna lie I didn't like hoa because all the routes were like "do 2 pulls for...
thats why it was tough to actually get to 2nd boss and then wipe which happened a lot for me. Youd do 4-5 difficult pulls and just come out unscathed
then u get fucked
orchid ginkgo
what embellishment should I get if crafting a shield?
duskthread?
I have dawn on my bracers
cyan bronze
last 2 unknown dungeons of S2 are prolly shadowlands ones if i was a betting man
It’s deadmines
blazing condor
deadmines is 100 pogging
especially if its the hc version
cant wait to play 35 minutes and wipe on vanessa's gauntlet
rough gate
i shield charge the golem, leap tclap 2nd pack, charge avatar ravager tclap 3rd ...
Thank you maybe it’s just braindead dps but I lost aggro on the first pack while gathering other two
rough gate
Do you hit shield wall off rip too
rough gate
cant wait to play 35 minutes and wipe on vanessa's gauntlet
Is deadmines confirmed
blazing condor
nah idk
rough gate
If so that’s so fucking aids
blazing condor
thats just RP: The dungeon
cyan bronze
Is deadmines confirmed
Yeah
ionic yoke
I want Maw of Souls and Freehold
blazing condor
bro we just had freehold
cyan bronze
It’s split into two dungeons iirc
So at least you don’t have to do the entirety of deadmines in 1 m+
tribal wharf
i forgot about this shit
that dungeon i mentioned sucks
this is why
i dont remember why but pulling these was total aids for some reason, i want to say it was the blue mages
ionic yoke
Oh I just remembered which one is Freehold, yeah no f that
I'd rather have Maw of Souls, thanks
tribal wharf
it was some shit about, one of them probably red puts a ..... something on you debuff i think
and then the mages slow you and your supposed to run out to get displed somethin
i didnt run any legion dungeons so i would struggle with them for the most part
the very end of the dungeon and you fight a pitlord and you get the super duper buff, then you lust it, that feels so good
the entire dungeon is really nice to look at, its fun to play, theres alot of interesting stuff and people there
lofty warren
They should have a season with only good dungeons:
Freehold
Junkyard
Atal-azar
Maw of souls
Black rook hold
Pit of saron
Utguard keep
tribal wharf
pit of saron yes except for 2nd boss
he deletes ragnaros mages with green goop
and the ramp trash and whole mountain is pretty bad
cyan bronze
Wait, there’s other content than pet battles?
jagged gust
Baby blizzard bear gonna go so hard
tribal wharf
i was going to say if i did a key stone in the past i get credit for it and then i realized theres is the affix
almost a good idea i had
golden dagger
ok so ipenetrable wall is a better talen then defenders aegis?
hardy snow
I like that dmg buff in raid 
round pendant
does VDH just suck ass?
this VDH I was just with keeps dying to skarmorak
and almost dying on every pack
cyan bronze
Vdh does suck ass yes
Shouldn’t be dying to every pull
Or skarmorak
So seems like a him issue more than vdh
hardy snow
ok so ipenetrable wall is a better talen then defenders aegis?
yes
lofty warren
I saw vdh is at the bottom of the tier list
pallid quiver
ok so ipenetrable wall is a better talen then defenders aegis?
Unless two specific scenarios are happening:
- You need back to back shield walls in order to live
- You are absolutely terrible at playing the spec, where the base cd reduction outweighs the reduction from you playing the spec properly
pallid quiver
I saw vdh is at the bottom of the tier list
Just because something's at the bottom of a tier list doesn't mean it's like, ass or anything. People weren't saying VDH was garbage before, and they haven't really gotten nerfed at all, so it stands to say it's not garbage now
lofty warren
They don't have 2x sigil and their raid buff nerfed
pallid quiver
If that makes them garbage and unplayable to you, then you do you
You can join the massess in not having a single thought in your head and letting one person tell you what to think as they farm you for content
tardy abyss
They went from completely overloaded to being somewhat balanced with the nerfs lol
No spec ever should be able to hold down a pack of mobs for 10+ seconds
lofty warren
The rotation kinda sicks too you have to blow all your defensives to do damae
lofty warren
Why are they ass
cyan bronze
Fel scarred just barely has 100% on mitigation; if you need to overlap spikes with meta or brand with meta, etc, you have forced kiting within its script, aldrachi reaver is “sizably” tankier at the cost of being incredibly more punishing to play, they also aren’t really good at anything besides bringing a 3% magic
If you want dmg or cc, you bring ppal, if you want a tank that’s more self sufficient you bring prot (either)
lofty warren
Hmm yes. Bottom of the tier list this xpac it seems
The one that makes you throw glaive in rotation is ass
Tbh it wouldn't be hard for them to be good, blizz can just revert them to dragonflight s3
rotund frigate
At what Haste % Should i start putting more into vers / Crit?
cyan bronze
Tbh it wouldn't be hard for them to be good, blizz can just revert them to drago...
I mean, I would like them to revert the sigil of silence & cycle of binding nerfs
Sort of silly that they nerfed our sigils to compensate for double sigils, and then removed double cc sigils
lofty warren
They wanted to put vdh to f tier
remote anchor
yea they still have utility they just die faster than war/pal/druid
versed wasp
Hmm yes. Bottom of the tier list this xpac it seems
its not the bottom
that would be brewmaster
and bdk
versed wasp
Tbh it wouldn't be hard for them to be good, blizz can just revert them to drago...
and this would be the absolute worst way to go about fixing them
cyan bronze
i mean ppl act like sigils were the only thing keeping vengeance relevant in s3s4
when they also did like, 2nd most dmg in keys, and were also the tankiest
versed wasp
there tier set was insane
it was what was generating so many more souls and they had 100% uptime on flame sigil which had a high amount of parry
pre nerf cycle of binding, the tier set and illum sigils all together were absurd
cyan bronze
whats funny is that either tierset, either s2 or s3 would of been obscenely broken
s3 was just more fun
versed wasp
the unnerfed s2 tier set was insane
but at least the s2 tier wasnt turbo brain dead like the s3 set
and your talent tree was fairly worse in s2
cyan bronze
yep
untold wave
Is swarmlord normal worth getting? im currently using skamorak + arakara trinket
lofty warren
Lol brew is completely dog 💩
versed wasp
Lol brew is completely dog 💩
yep
lofty warren
They also made stun not work in m+ and then they nerfed vdh to not have 2x sigil
Unbelievable
versed wasp
vdh definitely has its spots for improvement
but its far from awful bottom of the barrel garbage
prot pal have currently timed 18-17s
pwar/vdh/bear have currently timed 17-16s
being 1-2 key levels under the meta tank is fine
versed wasp
They also made stun not work in m+ and then they nerfed vdh to not have 2x sigil
and 2x sigil should stay dead
turbo dead
vdh mains didnt even want it because they knew it was completely busted
lofty warren
I was vdh in dragonflight and liked the 2x sigil could have mobs silenced and stunned for a while
Only problem was that sigil was a dps loss
versed wasp
I was vdh in dragonflight and liked the 2x sigil could have mobs silenced and st...
ye i remember seeing you in the vdh disc from time to time
it was super unhealthy design
versed wasp
Only problem was that sigil was a dps loss
i dont think thats a valid complaint, all stops that im aware of are on the gcd
shrewd grove
vdh mains didnt even want it because they knew it was completely busted
Bc VDH mains probably knew Blizz was gonna hit them with 4 rounds of nerfs before touching the real problem. But then they'd never revert those nerfs afterwards, even though it would drop Veng to bottom tank
cyan bronze
Soloing stops for an entire key wasn’t the funnest thing I’ve ever played
regal relic
Swarmlord's Authority or Mad Queens Mandate? (Other trinket being Arakara Sacbrood)
red dock
Anyone know at what point swapping to ITF over HR is worth it
jagged gust
about 20k haste
red dock
Altogether or unbuffed?
tepid reef
Any strong thoughts on taking thunderous roar in dungeons over spear?
I haven't really noticed much difference its just doing dmg a different way?
jagged gust
If you're hovering around the statline, try using the haste pot instead of the alchemical chaos
flask*
jagged gust
Any strong thoughts on taking thunderous roar in dungeons over spear?
I haven't ...
sims within the margin of error for me, you can test it out for yourself
oh you're taking uproar, i think that's an overall loss
tepid reef
What instead of Thunderous words?
tepid reef
thunderous is 1.625x dmg while uproar is 2x on cd
assuming full uptime on debuff roar is better, but welllll
tepid reef
hmm
jagged gust
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9nHzpHMc27yF8KYFkfqNCp
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a5rgTgRpKQoHGfEpKJPvAQ
Thunderous Words is a minute DPS gain in aoe, even less so in ST
jagged gust
Whatever feels best I'd say, the difference is small enough
cyan bronze
Fwiw
jagged gust
In massive pulls uproar probably falls behind a lot more, but if you're doing smaller tight pulls it's negligible
tepid reef
Using spear instead rofl, 10% stamina good, was mostly wondering if someone felt it was amazing
cyan bronze
You can’t rly take stam talent with roar
woven radish
That's my problem, like roar better for bigger aoe threat range, but requires too many points to get too, losing either stam or the str node
cyan bronze
True, but then you're trading DPS for... stamina
well
roar is also less dps
so that isnt true
jagged gust
6k dps loss for the trad spear+stam build, and 18k in aoe
with my stats at the very least
cyan bronze
spear is also nice util sometimes
jagged gust
It is lovely to time it with the shield chargers in SV
I'm in a weird situation where most of my gear is fury statted, so with all the extra mastery/vers, crit is really valuable from what I can tell of my sims. If you have a clever usage for spear kiting or are maybe very heavily crit statted it may not be as much of a diff
pallid quiver
https://www.twitch.tv/nomeratur/clip/AdorableImportantHumanSmoocherZ-inprq-n51Ow...
This is why we should require every Warrior spec to play spear
pallid quiver
Any strong thoughts on taking thunderous roar in dungeons over spear?
I haven't ...
The other thing to note is that if you're not taking both spear capstones, it becomes notably worse; Spear should be doing more damage for Thane if you have both capstones and proper stats, but it's not hilariously far ahead or anything
tepid reef
The other thing to note is that if you're not taking both spear capstones, it be...
you mean lik ethis?
jagged gust
^ yes
pallid quiver
Though I'm curious why there's a point in the stam talent, but yes
It's probably better that the 1% crit, but
take my miniscule amounts of damage from my cold, dead, hands
jagged gust
Cold, dead hands would be a sick talent name
choice node between that and cold steel hot blood
cyan bronze
WHAT ABOUT WARM ALIVE HANDS FOR THE CHOICE NODE
shrewd grove
have you guys had terrible days in wow
I one shot every dungeon on a 10, until my very last one. I failed SV on a +10, 16 times over 3 days before I finally got my portal. It was maddening. Some days are bad. Theyll get better ❤️
cyan bronze
have you guys had terrible days in wow
You guys have good days?
shrewd grove
You guys have good days?
Sometimes my guild gives me PI on pull for funsies. That's a pretty good day
edgy bone
cyan bronze
generally leech
elfin pelican
Could anyone explain why MT Prot goes Spear instead of Thunderous Roar?
shrewd grove
More damage
elfin pelican
Is it more damage at all levels, or only higher levels?
rain light
all
shrewd grove
Is it more damage at all levels, or only higher levels?
All levels, but only if you take both spear talents
winged oar
is spell block worth taking for myth sikran even?
shrewd grove
You dying to shit?
shrewd grove
Then not worth
pallid quiver
Phase Lunge is almost negated by spell block
misty sinew
guys just to know its good 85% uptime ignore pain and 71% uptime shieldblock? any tips or trick for war prot? i come back from long freeze and come back with my fucking prot warrior 😄
shrewd grove
IP uptime is semi-irrelevant, as it is going to get eaten when it gets eaten. Shield Block uptime in raid should be 100%. In keys it should be 90%ish
You should aim to have SB up for every melee hit, is kind of your goal
untold hornet
Anyone have the egg assignment addon for mythic ovi? I am looking online and for some reason I can just not access the WA website
silent obsidian
yo guys, is there any combination to knock up mobs?
i see many warrs doing it and i think i do it by mistake
like when everything gets knocked up
is this enginiring
or somethin?
winged oar
hero talent for shockwave under colossus
silent obsidian
im playing thane
shrewd grove
You have shockwave/stormbolt/shield charge/intimidating shout/racial if you're Tauren, like you should be >:)
And you can spec into Disrupting Shout if you like
Give up some damage for it, but it is a good aoe int
silent obsidian
i was playin 12 GB, and every1 in grp had 10 interupts = total 50, on 3rd pack
is that low as prot?
shrewd grove
How many did you have?
silent obsidian
10
3rd pack i mean
3rd pack of 2nd boss
area
like in pug grps
so many overlaps
when im going to interupt someone stuns etc..
shrewd grove
I mean, that's just communication with group and watching your CD trackers to know when to expect others will be using stops/ints
silent obsidian
pff
i just got aids playin GB man
i have no clue how to do the 1st pull
with BL
idk im desperate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyKBlIhVrLI trying to do this pull, but always someone hits the 1st pack or doesnt interupt the 1st caster
im drained
ignore elemental tips btw
just check pala pull, idk if it works cuz he silences
shrewd grove
Are you dropping your MDT before the dungeon? And explaining what you need from DPS for that pull?
Not everyone is subbed to Nem
snow island
Hey chat, is 27% haste enough for Into the Fray?
lucid owl
Hey guys, I'm new to tanking overall but want to get into it. I've narrowed down my choices to prot Warrior and guardian Druid (have both maxxed). I want to know is a prot Warrior easy to play in comparison to guardian druid or is the Warrior more complex to play for a beginner?
shrewd grove
Hey chat, is 27% haste enough for Into the Fray?
I think the ideal breakpoint is 30%
shrewd grove
Hey guys, I'm new to tanking overall but want to get into it. I've narrowed down...
Neither are difficult rotationally. Prot Warrior has to hit buttons faster
lucid owl
I haven't done much PvE content but I want to get into Myhtic+ and raiding. Are both tanks considered equal in terms of DPS and survivability?
shrewd grove
All of the tanks are pretty equal until you get into the highest tier content. Unlikely you will encounter a scenario where class choice remotely impacts your ability to complete content
Tanks are very well balanced this patch
jaunty wyvern
I think the ideal breakpoint is 30%
Would you be able to explain this one for me please?
Are there other haste break points and talents?
Or could you direct me to somewhere to read about the this?
Thanks,
urban portal
Would you be able to explain this one for me please?
Are there other haste bre...
30 just adds up to a reasonable shield block uptime when combined with optimal play
Nothing else
violet ginkgo
youll never get reflects that do damage in raid
except for the poison bolt at court fight and the laser from add at ansurek.
sad though once it evolved to void bolt it no longer reflect, only deflect 
oak ivy
how2notdie on princess
violet ginkgo
Press spell reflect a lot
On serious note you can always shield wall her tankbuster then use spellblock for the dots. That's it, rest is up to dps to place the portal nicely.
winged oar
is crafted sword + ascendance technically our bis over myth duelist dancing steel or what yall rolling?
old basin
ive been having groups lately that dont want to do my route
they keep pinging another way
what should i do
even pulling ads i dont want
jagged gust
Would you be able to explain this one for me please?
Are there other haste bre...
It's 35%, haste reduces the cd of SB, at this point when combined with shield charge you should have nearly 100% uptime on SB with optimal play. There are no other breakpoints and we still want haste beyond that point
sharp gale
43% prog in one pull lmao
Well if you can do the 2 first min, you can do the rest of the fight easily, when I progged kyvesa, we were still in 60% range second night on her, then random pull 5%
Nothing changes in the entire fight it’s always the same from the beginning to 6 min
On the side note, if everyone is alive all the time, you don’t see the last intermission at all
barren oar
they keep pinging another way
Could be a few reasons. Any specific examples
barren oar
ive been having groups lately that dont want to do my route
Could always drop mdt before keystone is activated so they can review
violet ginkgo
soooo.... our first pull that went sub 40% did this
yeah this is not exactly on you, I mean if you did all tank mech right (which is not a lot) then the rest is up to DPS to pull their weight and start pressing buttons.
oak ivy
yeah this is not exactly on you, I mean if you did all tank mech right (which is...
Oh yeah no we didn't have any tank deaths all night it's just spoopy is all, we had a few dps dead early otherwise it wouldve been a kill
granted my damage is abysmal cuz im in giga defensive setup
violet ginkgo
nah nah even if you go full offense it won't make much difference if 40% left
that is DPS es not pressing buttons
if that is 3-4% left and they said "If only our tank go full offense" that is still make sense. but 40%? that is DPS not pressing buttons
pallid quiver
I'm confused by what point you're trying to make, Valk
violet ginkgo
I'm confused by what point you're trying to make, Valk
He felt like his defensive built causing "not enough damage" on princess because her HP is 40% and they are at the final endless night.
pallid quiver
I don't think that latter section
Like
happened at all
That's, like, 6.6%, which is notably less than 40%
violet ginkgo
even so I don't think he can cover all of them?
pallid quiver
Their issues is having people not get killed from mechs, save the one pull they got below 40%
And he's just commenting on that, along with how hard Princess is to live
Since she's probably the single hardest hitting boss for tanks in the instance
It's fairly understandable, since from everything I've seen and heard, Princess is a fight that is quite strict with the mechs on Mythic, which puts people on the backfoot a lot
violet ginkgo
well I assume that was heroic instead of mythic
pallid quiver
if they're hitting enrage on heroic and not mythic that's fucked up
tardy abyss
That is mythic
pallid quiver
Was going to say it is MYthic, though
tardy abyss
Based on hp its easy to tell
pallid quiver
Blank also has been asking about Mythic prog stuff earlier, as well
tardy abyss
Prog on that boss is interesting though, a progress of 40% can happen really fast because the boss does not change much
If you have seen the first 30% you have seen the other 70% already
violet ginkgo
Since she's probably the single hardest hitting boss for tanks in the instance
I can see on this yeah. I am more scared about the 2nd tank buster if hit. First one at least defensive is ready, shield wall for the hit then spellblock for the dots, but usually on 2nd tankbuster shield wall is ready but the spellblock on cd, that's when the scary things begin.
sharp gale
Prog on that boss is interesting though, a progress of 40% can happen really fas...
3/4 of prog is 90% of boss hp, the 1/4 is the last 10%
tardy abyss
We have had one day prog on it and we got to 41%
sharp gale
Like I said, everyone is alive, you don’t see the last intermission, if not you will need to prog it
tardy abyss
Might die next day
sharp gale
But my first kill she died maybe 10 sec into the intermission so I guess it’s not a big thing
sharp gale
We have had one day prog on it and we got to 41%
You got out of the first intermission, everyone alive ?
sharp gale
Okok it’s fine on the kill I died and someone else later too so they basically killed her with 19ish people
tardy abyss
As long as I get BOP for the charge nothing can kill me really
sharp gale
One ret just doesnt get it haha
He can bop to not drop the balls
tardy abyss
idk as Arms the charge is just awful
Otherwise I really like that fight
Sikran is a lot worse when it comes to downtime imo
sharp gale
I said the same thing the two first night, I play only fury, maybe it’s different as arms tho, you don’t suffer as much because of downtime ?
tardy abyss
Like you get the mechanic once and your parse is just fucked
Arms prob suffers harder from downtime
Cause of jugg stacks
sharp gale
Like you get the mechanic once and your parse is just fucked
Im fine having a blue parse among people who actually killed kyvesa and I had to do charge 2 times
I had a 0 parse on the kill
tardy abyss
lmao
tardy abyss
Must have hurt
wraith totem
Hello everyone
I am playing with a resto shaman and pushing 14s now.
We are starting to feel the lack of shaman heals or limitations.
Any tips on prot war + resto sham. Synergies and tricks you do
sharp gale
I had spells being desync for 2 pulls but idc, the reclear was fine
tardy abyss
Hello everyone
I am playing with a resto shaman and pushing 14s now.
We are st...
Thats a skill issue from your sham
That spec still has the best throughput in M+
wraith totem
He keeps saying he doesn't have much heal output and we have to figure other ways like totems and earth elemental usage
sharp gale
Rdruid has a better throughput ? Just curious since I just know 1 dude who push as healer and he plays Druid
tardy abyss
I dont think 14s is where any healer starts to have output issues
Besides holy priest
sharp gale
14s is slightly above what 12s were before the nerf of guile
sharp gale
Prot war and Rsham was meta then, I don’t see how a problem would appear
pallid quiver
There could also be not enough interrupts going out/people not using defensives well enough, too
But it's mostly a play issue, not a numerical throughput ability issue
wraith totem
Ye like I don't feel I need that much healing
But wanted to know if this is a thing that shamans have low healing output or he just need more experience
sharp gale
The whole group always need experience, building synergy etc
wraith totem
Definitely. Just wanted to be more informed so we can work on the problem and not on what we assume
sharp gale
Definitely. Just wanted to be more informed so we can work on the problem and no...
You Should record your keys if you want to go higher as a team I think, and rewatch what happened etc
wraith totem
Oh ye. I also set that up this week. Got twitch working so we can have vods for review
sharp gale
I have a friend who push 16-17 so I have some hints of what they do outside of the dungeon
sharp gale
Idk, he is among the 3 rdruid above 3k3
sharp gale
I did a weekly 10 with him when he geared his disc a couple weeks ago, it was a weekly no leaver grim batol
sharp gale
I think there are also 2 holy priests in title range
Isn’t title range 3k Rio ?
golden dagger
You’re looking at the best prot war NA
sharp gale
Its like 3.2k or so rn
Yes you are right it’s 3k2, it was 3k before .5
tardy abyss
ye
sharp gale
It’s between the puggable and almost unpuggable keys
brittle owl
Curious how they even do it
prob have big pp
brittle owl
easy there mcgobble
sharp gale
I would clean the pp of my friend at almost 3k4 as brewmaster
Idk how he likes to suffer, he copes every day about an incoming tuning of brew
tardy abyss
Is he really suffering tho
brittle owl
following a meta is prob the worst gaming experience you can have tbh
tardy abyss
Man that new LP album is lit
sharp gale
Is he really suffering tho
A little bit, because it’s really bad brew in these high keys
brittle owl
it's like that kid that can't ball for shit but has a full KD kit complete with headband
ffs bros
cedar rune
Man, I tanked on nothing but my Druid for the past like… week… and then ran a couple keys on my warrior again tonight and fuck, why does anyone play Druid.
They’re similarly geared, but my Druid I’m just like FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK with cooldowns constantly just to stay alive. My warrior feels like a god damn truck.
tardy abyss
gdruid isnt that bad
brittle owl
play into it
tardy abyss
It was competitive with warrior before ppal got buffed
sharp gale
Yes before .5 it was = prot war
brittle owl
Man, I tanked on nothing but my Druid for the past like… week… and then ran a co...
patch is irrelevant, when you're used to prot war every other tank will feel off
simply because of the gameplay loop and mitigation model
same if you're used to playing a bdk, going to another tank will make you feel "helpless"
cedar rune
Ehhhh I dunno if it’s that persay… I’m pretty comfy on the Druid and its loop… just still feels like if I sneeze I might die
Warrior I feel like I have so much more breathing room
sharp gale
On any tank sometime you sneeze and you die
Gatekeeper pull, you can close your eyes 1 second you are dead
cedar rune
I mean, sure… all I’m saying is the feels my dudes
sharp gale
We got you, it feels good to be at home
brittle owl
do the feels make your pp soft or hard?
tardy abyss
cedar rune
We got you, it feels good to be at home
❤️
unkempt hazel
im boutta stray
sharp gale
I strayed, and I returned. I’ll never stray again
We will see if your words are meaningful when a new tier list will drop x weeks before the next patch
sharp gale
except its the opposite of fotm <:keks:936231610850897992>
It’s fine if you play brew, they hide sometimes here anyway like bdk when it’s not meta/rly bad
sharp gale
was brew ever meta ?
Bfa last season it was kinda good but pwar…
The design/tuning of stagger makes them they need to be broken to be meta
unkempt hazel
tru
sharp gale
But you can make it work anyway if you play with a team, but ofc only a full off meta team will take a brew
unkempt hazel
ahah, team, right
sharp gale
ahah, team, right <:sadge:820202363359854633>
It’s kinda a big thing if you love m+ and want to push really high, otherwise you have to pug so it’s also pvp
violet ginkgo
I am pug life on 10s
sharp gale
I am too in pug life 10s but idc about m+ I just vault fill since the first week, I play for the mythic raid
unkempt hazel
tbf no clue if I like pushing since I never tried
got a single +10 timed to my name lmao
(in df)
sharp gale
tbf no clue if I like pushing since I never tried
Imagine it’s like mythic raid prog, but you are 5, and if you wipe you see another dungeon
sharp gale
Yes but it was to have an image you can maybe relate to
sharp gale
Some people like that if you fail you don’t insta retry like raid
unkempt hazel
dont think I have any strong feelings one way or the other
but
there's def dungeons that I generally dont like so ig its a bit worse in that regard
sharp gale
there's def dungeons that I generally dont like so ig its a bit worse in that re...
I very rarely push, it’s only if I LOVE the dungeon pool + I LOVE the spec I play, so it rarely happens at the same time
Like this season, sorry but I hate the dungeons
sharp gale
i kinda like dawnbreaker tbf
You like it because it’s easy
unkempt hazel
I hate mists tho
sharp gale
Easier* than the rest
unkempt hazel
sharp gale
Mists is the key I do 8 times every weeks for the past 2 months, it is meh, but I bare it
sharp gale
You think Skarmorak is a fine boss ?
unkempt hazel
thats the shard creature right
sharp gale
Yes
jagged gust
Eat all the orbs and parse like a monster? hell yeah
jagged gust
The cast for every second steam vent always catches me off guard, I'll be kiting then halfway across the room charge back to interrupt
sharp gale
I hate skarmorak, but maybe it’s because I did too much pug where he last 5 min
unkempt hazel
having a shammy there is so nice
just ranged interrupt ezpz
altho ig any ranged interrupt should have it up for each?
sharp gale
altho ig any ranged interrupt should have it up for each?
You need a range interrupt for the 2 boxes, idk how many seconds it is
Because sometimes you need to go to the vent and he cast late so you can’t melee kick (when the big push the box)
cedar rune
Can you reflect it?
sharp gale
Can you reflect it?
And the 4 other members of your party ?
cedar rune
Ohhhh that one!
unkempt hazel
but casts at everyone
cedar rune
Gotcha
unkempt hazel
And the 4 other members of your party ?
real talk
just have 5 prot warrs
err just warrs
why did I think reflect was prot only for a sec
sharp gale
Later in seasons i try to to keys with full tanks
But now that there is always tyrannical, it may not be as fun
tardy abyss
Theres no boss that does a lot of damage outside of first boss DB
Every other boss is just a joke
But dunno, if you have both tyrannical and fortified you have neither anyway
So it doesnt make much of a difference
violet ginkgo
Theres no boss that does a lot of damage outside of first boss DB
but sometimes it's not the damage, sometimes it's the mech that annoying.
tardy abyss
Fair