nope, swapped from Fury (was longtime tank player) and now in a casual fight for higher rank than some friends.
#protection
left escarp
Was just curious if that still existed, since I have a FUCKTON of mastery on all my shit.
lusty grotto
you cant get to it cause our tier doesnt have a lot of haste
and our BiS slots are haste-less
left escarp
I specifically meant for 100% SB uptime with Shield Charge.
left escarp
noted. must have been a number I read from S3.
lusty grotto
the only number you need to worry about
is 5400
less than 5400 rating
you play heavy repercussions
more than 5400 you play ITF
thats it
left escarp
less than 5400 rating
"rating"?
lusty grotto
haste rating
left escarp
you mean my base haste?
okay, so I should swap.
is dropping ITF a big overall DPS loss?
lusty grotto
it can be
left escarp
because I basically never fold to anything even running ITF
neat crow
Secondaries are a bit wildin on prepatch but u can just stick to the 5400 number if needs be
left escarp
anything below 100% unacceptable?
lusty grotto
do you have logs
lusty grotto
link it up
lusty grotto
please dont
i dont accept those
this is not 100% uptime
not even close
obviously
anyway, yeah before you claim you have 100% uptime, maybe check on logs
because 99% of the cases that claim it here do not
neat crow
because I basically never fold to anything even running ITF
What key levels are u doing?
lusty grotto
low keys
neat crow
Cause ngl prepatch keys are hella meme and nothing really hurts
left escarp
I never said I had 100% uptime.
lusty grotto
10-12 are his highest
look im not attacking you
im just saying
youre not even close to good uptime
left escarp
No no, we're fine lol.
lusty grotto
45% of blocked attacks is very very dangerously low
HR will help with less that 5400 haste
and obviously track SB
left escarp
What key levels are u doing?
currently 15/16
lusty grotto
thats also screwing your damage
left escarp
I think a lot of it, frankly, is movement pack to pack because of how much shit is folding.
left escarp
in the sense that number doesn't change when I'm hit from behind while moving?
left escarp
there are outliers, yes; so I should not make that hard claim.
even in those instances, nothing is -threatening-.
lusty grotto
also this breakdown just tells us youre not doing the correct prio
SS > TC > Rev/Exe
left escarp
period?
left escarp
I was under the impression that was for rage generation and not holding threat.
fallow nova
TC > SS at 8+ though, isn't it?
lusty grotto
no thats outburst
left escarp
I can't hold threat if I'm spamming TC at a 15
without roar
or ravager
or aoe taught
lusty grotto
i mean you would if you had a 12/12 gholak not a hero version
well, it will help a lot
left escarp
the weapon DPS difference is like ~50
lusty grotto
also
left escarp
I have 4 bullion; I just bought Rageheart, I can get Gholak.
lusty grotto
youre not taking into consideration the cantrip effect
also this is garbage
procs 1 maybe 2 times in a key if youre lucky
lusty grotto
SS > TC > Rev/Exe
kind glen
TC as highest damage is totally normal
kind glen
Yes, it is
left escarp
-what- is wrong, though.
lusty grotto
no
left escarp
what is the point of reseting an ability off cooldown
lusty grotto
dont cut your rage intake off
because youre still gonna press TC
the one thing you dont press, as often outside of any opener is revenge
left escarp
you're saying I should revenge more?
I was under the impression rage dumping in IP was better for tier procs.
lusty grotto
left escarp
nodnod
I still don't understand why I would press SS > TC if TC is off CD.
That seems to miss a key element of our tier.
left escarp
Maybe ST, right?
left escarp
did SS start cleaving without an update or...
fallow nova
More rage gain, more rage spending, more cycling of cds and outburst
lusty grotto
that particular dungeon is a BH
which
TC should be higher
just because of the pulls
left escarp
lashers and bullshit.
fallow nova
It's not just about the numbers that pop up the moment you press the button, it's about the synergy between all of your effects that run off of generating and spending rage
lusty grotto
but it shouldnt be leading by such a huge margin
left escarp
what if it's required
lusty grotto
its not
fallow nova
Avatar, tier procs, outburst. All of that happening more often is a greater overall gain than always preferring TC over SS in cleave situations
left escarp
to be fair
I haven't really had a threat issue outside of when I first started getting back into it
BUT
timber viper
You arent hitting revenge???
left escarp
I have had a few rips in big packs
lusty grotto
you had 34 avatars
left escarp
so not enough rage cycling
yes
I gotchu.
I wish the "after-update" shit was posted
fallow nova
Some of this may also come down to key level and how long things are living, but yes. Generating rage is a higher priority than doing raw immediate damage because of the rage-spending benefits
left escarp
but it's good to know what I was doing wrong beforehand.
yeah, pre big DPS update, I think a 13(?) or something was my highest? maybe a 15(?)?
and obviously these are being cleared much easier because everything dies faster.
left escarp
last tuesdays patch
lusty grotto
thats not live
fallow nova
Secondary stat boost on prepatch?
left escarp
100%
lusty grotto
well i mean
neat crow
A load of prepatch talents made some specs degenerate af lol
lusty grotto
yeahh idk about fury
left escarp
that's what I'm saying
lusty grotto
2pc 2pc is kind of fucking broken
left escarp
DK is busted.
lusty grotto
so its not a fair comparison
left escarp
Ret is busted
A ton of specs are now, on average, pulling a SHITTON more damage
that's not even debatable
lusty grotto
well i suppose you have a point
left escarp
which makes doing/clearing these keys much easier.
lusty grotto
but its still no exception
fallow nova
Which can sometimes make it tougher to hold aggro on a big pull
lusty grotto
wat
lusty grotto
dps = threat
left escarp
SS > TC (ST)
lusty grotto
how many times do i have to say it
left escarp
but there is zero shot it's better for AoE aggro?
you're talking about whole AM cycles
I'm talking about RIGHT NOW
yeah, in 18 seconds it's cool
and faster
but if the DPS dies before then because I can't hold
lusty grotto
do you know how to sim
left escarp
it seems irrelevant?
lusty grotto
just look at it by yourself
sim 5 target patchwerk
1.5 mins, 1 min, 3 mins, 5 mins
left escarp
what you are saying has zero baring on what I am saying
lusty grotto
left escarp
I agree with you; I am 100% you are correct that I will do more damage with what you're telling me.
lusty grotto
see what youre looking for is for me to tell you that its ok TC is leading with such a wide margin, but its not ok
fallow nova
To be fair, your aoe dps within the first 15 seconds of a pull does sometimes matter.
lusty grotto
under the current circumstances
because if youre getting agro pulled
in the context of right now
and with perfect play
its completely out of your control
fallow nova
Do you suggest tab-targeting your SS around the pack?
left escarp
its completely out of your control
or we could play for less overall DPS and play for more AoE Threat?
lusty grotto
maybe because its prepatch and its not worth doing jack shit anyway
left escarp
That's an insane thing to demand
lusty grotto
brother
fallow nova
Handwaving away the entire matter isn't exactly helpful just because it's prepatch.
lusty grotto
well thats fair
fallow nova
Just because you don't want to play doesn't mean others don't, my dude.
kind glen
No need to optimize the tier that hard. It's consumes, you TC, it's back up.
lusty grotto
and thats just out of our control
left escarp
I know I'm not pressing my buttons in the way that I know is the best for my personal DPS; in the same way I run the AOE interrupt when others don't.
because a key clear might come down to an interrupt not getting hit.
but I have never caused a key to FAIL**** because I didn't have an extra 20rage
fallow nova
And while jamming 8 SS back-to-back on pull is OPTIMAL dps, if it causes 4 other mobs to hop off of you and go kill your dps then you've fucked up your tanking.
lusty grotto
thats a completely different topic
left escarp
thats a completely different topic
In what sense?
fallow nova
That's the exact topic they've been asking about. Aoe threat.
left escarp
I have been specificallying saying; DPS are now ripping off me.
That has never been a problem.
So I have to TC ALL THE TIME.
My original question was about is there a point I can have 100% uptime on SB, like it once was.
Because I knew my numbers WERE NOT 100%.
lusty grotto
see the problem here is this
lets say you prio TC
SS WILL STILL BE BIGGER DAMAGE
if you press both on CD
fallow nova
Bigger damage to how many mobs out of 8?
left escarp
Nobody, even Method or anybody, plays perfectly everytime.
fallow nova
The Sim plays perfectly. Just become a robot 😉
lusty grotto
you guys are really putting words into what im recommending
fallow nova
The Sim wouldn't be losing aggro
neat crow
im going to sleep
Aw I was gonna ask u to look at a log of mine real quick because some Russians logged one of my meme keys 
fallow nova
Nah, just messin.
left escarp
I don't feel like I've put words into your mouth. =/
You've told me how I can improve my overall damage, which I agree with. My counterpoint is in doing so, my DPS my die because they have threat and I don't.
fallow nova
Sleepy time does sound good though
left escarp
So I should never have more than 8 targets as Prot?
fallow nova
Single target DPS =/= optimal aoe threat
lusty grotto
its not single target dps
left escarp
its not single target dps
then what is it?
kind glen
Nim will ride SS > All forever. I've seen him do it for awhile now. You can also analyze your own logs against others in a similar key range, if you're looking to optimize damage.
lusty grotto
because we need the rage gen, and because SS hits like a fucking truck
left escarp
I don't lose aggro on the target I have selected
lusty grotto
Nim will ride SS > All forever. I've seen him do it for awhile now. You can also...
who are you?
kind glen
Just a lurker, but know enough about the class to comment.
left escarp
so it seems useless/silly to continue to spam.
now yes, if I swapped target to target perfectly
left escarp
I would SS > TC
lusty grotto
shit is going perfectly
fallow nova
now yes, if I swapped target to target perfectly
Give that tab button a workout
lusty grotto
i dont pay your sub, so feel free to do whatever
left escarp
my original question was about SB uptime and haste lock.
you wanted logs, I gave you what was available.
I can tell you if I didn't TC as much as I did, DPS die.
lusty grotto
k
left escarp
=/
fallow nova
Nim, if he hits the SS reset jackpot (which happens often enough) and is sitting on 6-8 gcds of SS, do you believe that would keep a full pack locked onto him better than pressing TC even once after the initial hit?
kind glen
He isn't wrong that SS is prio, it just doesn't work out to be the highest damage as the keys go up. Logs verify this. Keep aggro and and don't die. Ezpz.
left escarp
I really wasn't looking for an overall gameplay review; I appreciate it.
left escarp
yes, I have been playing as if TC > SS > TC (if TC is off CD) because that's literally what the tier tells you
what is the point to reset a cooldown off cooldown
lusty grotto
He isn't wrong that SS is prio, it just doesn't work out to be the highest damag...
as keys get higher, pulls get bigger
and last longer
you didnt include inmensely important context
fallow nova
In a general dps (not threat) sense, it's because rage economy matters more than weaving TCs to maximize using your resets
lusty grotto
it doesnt mean your CPMs
should look like this
or this
which is the BH
heres a comparable one
kind glen
as keys get higher, pulls get bigger
Kinda my point lol. I'm not even diasagreeing with you.
lusty grotto
from @south zealot
south zealot
(the goat)
south zealot
Nim, if he hits the SS reset jackpot (which happens often enough) and is sitting...
i mean
left escarp
I've already agreed with you..?
south zealot
such hypotheticals are so insanelyt unlikely
left escarp
I've already said I would get more damage during what you are saying.
fallow nova
such hypotheticals are so insanelyt unlikely
You know how often I've hit 5+ SS back to back?
south zealot
I don't feel like I've put words into your mouth. =/
You've told me how I can i...
when are they getting threat
lusty grotto
"at the start, when they pull all cds while pulling"
south zealot
i cant remember a single time ive hit 5 shield slams back to back without missing a global
left escarp
"at the start, when they pull all cds while pulling"
I never said that, did I?
left escarp
Hm.
The logs you're reviewing aren't even the one's I'm discussing.
because the damage increase didn't happen until after.
lusty grotto
thats fine
left escarp
So in those logs, I was probably just playing poorly.
lusty grotto
i see
left escarp
Which I imagine I was; I just swapped back to Prot for a friendly realm competition.
The DPS increase happened.
left escarp
I'm not running 12s mate.
left escarp
- My question was a haste breakpoint.
- I don't fold and I clear the keys I do; I didn't ask, need, or request advise of my play.
lusty grotto
ok, sorry about that
left escarp
- yes, obviously I don't press my buttons perfectly well; that doesn't get keys cleared.
south zealot
only meaningful 'breakpoints' is 5.4-6kish haste for heavy reprecussions and into the fray swap, and not going over 7.1k haste bc thats when dr is too heavy to be worth it anymore
left escarp
I don't run Bloodsurge because extra rage isn't a clear but missing an interrupt is a wipe.
lusty grotto
see that wasnt the problem at lal
i didnt run bloodsurge either
in fact i dont think ive ran bloodsurge outside of the meme AA
for the entirety of S4
anyway thats neither here or there
my apologies for trying to explain why SS>TC>Rev/Exe is our prio
left escarp
Does that have zero baring on whether or not you have threat
lusty grotto
i wish we could have gotten to the outburst part, but we kind of glossed over it
south zealot
Does that have zero baring on whether or not you have threat
for the most part yes
kind glen
It's a guilty pleasure to Outburst with TC lol
south zealot
befoer you start spamming ss you want to get your bleeds up
timber viper
and tag you with a log?
Can you tag me too
lusty grotto
Can you tag me too
left escarp
befoer you start spamming ss you want to get your bleeds up
are there cases where we do things incorrectly for the sake of clears or helpfulness
left escarp
or is the only thing to ever do is our personal best?
south zealot
some socrates question wtf
kind glen
lmao
left escarp
(mind you, I am coming from being a Fury player)
south zealot
are there cases where we do things incorrectly for the sake of clears or helpful...
yes id say so
south zealot
partially bc even if you absolutely tried your hardest you cannot play a key literally perfectly
left escarp
if I need to TC more to keep threat
south zealot
there is too much nuance
left escarp
I don't know that I've ever played -TANK- like that
south zealot
i havent played prot in prepatch so idk if specs are doign disporpotionally more damage than in season 4 but you shouldnt need to tc much more for threat
left escarp
fair.
I will look into that and review.
if I can do more damage, that could help my keys and clears.
lusty grotto
can we talk about outburst?
south zealot
using tc more isnt AWFUL, its justbetter if you can use ss more bc its more rage and more rage gives you more avatar uptime etc etc.
lusty grotto
or am i still overstepping
kind glen
can we talk about outburst?
yes talk about it
lusty grotto
you outburst TC on 8+ mobs
kind glen
TC outburst is fun. Bigg SS is fun. Good talent
left escarp
can we talk about outburst?
I will admit this is an element that I pay -very- little attention to
lusty grotto
less than 7 mobs you outburst SS
south zealot
it should be said even on 8+ targets theres a lot of the time you should ss outburst
for more prio damage
lusty grotto
absolutely
south zealot
but in general if u wanna mongo brain u can tc outburst in aoe
lusty grotto
but thats a very specific scenario
in general
8+ target count needs an outburst TC
in general
if only we could have talked about this earlier
but it is what it is
anyway, TWW will bring some nuance to ye olde prio
because outburst thunder blasts fucking slap
and with today's beta buffs... colossus might bring some differences as well
so we will see what happens
kind glen
I'm just glad both Hero Talents look fun
lusty grotto
colossus has rage gen/cycling problems
and demolish as a channel is kind of meh
but..
we will have to see what happens when the beta build goes live
certainly feels like it'll slap for ST
at the cost of some defensiveness
oh and uh, less AM resets i guess and outbursts
kind glen
I'm so glad they kept Outburst. It's a super fun talent.
neat crow
I'm so glad they kept Outburst. It's a super fun talent.
If they removed it for tww there would be literally negative gameplay depth lol
kind glen
I like when they have a good tier set and then keep it around. Kinda wouldnt hate some sort of bake using the DF S2 Tier. Just uncouple it from Last Stand for starters lol
timber sapphire
5158+96+
merry sluice
I agree
jagged pier
u get a fix to this? my char is still falling 
median tulip
u get a fix to this? my char is still falling <a:nodders:1203465365091389460>
sI fixed it using the stuck character service
jagged pier
i tried 
pallid quiver
i just flew if we're talking about falling into the void
World enjoyer stonks go up i guess
sour junco
Gotta love going into a M+0 and having an 1.3M DK stealing you aggro and nothing you can do
Makes me feel like a wet noodle of a tank
LMAO
cerulean tusk
AoE taunt 
But ye, while you are undergeared, dont worry about it. DPS can more or less just tank the ripped threat either way
jade tartan
Changes still not up right guys ?
hardy snow
u get a fix to this? my char is still falling <a:nodders:1203465365091389460>
for me web service of character stuck helped as well, but before using log in on different char for 10-15min
so the system registers that your falling char is offline
sick sentinel
Which tank looking good for TWW? Since VDH nerf I must decide Prot/Brew/DK
jagged pier
which ever one u enjoy the most
rigid edge
Outlaw rogue
cerulean tusk
Popular opinion is BDK looks to be solid, monk looks to be solid ~ but a bit more up in the air, VDH will still get the job done.
So, if your RL is breathing down your neck, and you dont care
ask for what raidbuff/grip he wants filled
rigid edge
Be a chad and go Prot Pala
cerulean tusk
Oh and yea, prot warr is just the good ol' brick we always been
solid sun
which ever one u enjoy the most
Did you get unstuck
tawdry fjord
So are we happy with the buffs? Or not enough?:)
cerulean tusk
Hard to say, as the buffs are to affect the TWW environment. Still, execute becoming closer and closer to a big button is always a huge +
cerulean tusk
Execute phase - we get a special animation when we press 
where we simply put; execute the foe.
Most humanoid bosses we simply gutpunch, have them keel over, then chop off their head.
Raidbosses got an added animation of us holding up their head for the world to see
(if that doesnt turn warrior meta, nothing will)
pallid quiver
Monkey's paw curls
Change goes through and warrior is meta
But only as DPS
Prot fades from relevance forever
sick sentinel
Why wash your dishes by hand when you have the Dishwasher 3000s available aka every other tank
Pwarr needs change
undone beacon
Washing my dishes by hand is satisfying and I can ensure that every spec of crud gets washed away 😉
toxic pewter
u get a fix to this? my char is still falling <a:nodders:1203465365091389460>
Yeah I used the unstuck function on bnet website.. did u ever get it fixed
inner gulch
hey guys, can someone help me with something ? I heard that I need to come on this discord to check about the tank buster dmg and what def rotation to use depending on what boss. I`m having some issues with Kokia Blazehoof on +16 and above.. is like she breaks thru any def I use
any suggestion on how to better mitigate the damage ?
strong forum
all her dmg is based on how many bleeds she applies
inner gulch
she does around 4
strong forum
the only way to mitigate the dmg from said bleed is
a) parrying
b) shield wall
c)Demo shout + Ignore Pain
you have SW for every other tank buster
if you have ANY RELEVANT amount of crit
you should rarely get a 4 stacks
you only need to use SW on a 3 or 4 stack of the bleed
outside of that you can opt to hold demo shout for the tankbuster
or just parry 
cerulean tusk
(or dodge, if Nelf!)
inner gulch
most of my stats are close to beeing capped. so i should be ok in that
strong forum
i dont know what that means but sure ig
rough wyvern
Obviously dwarf racial is good, if you ever get 4 stacks. Fyrakks Tainted Rageheart is very nice as well. With any of those combined with wall for every other, you should be good for the most part. If you need more, ask for external I guess :p
inner gulch
I`m using True stats value addon, and it shows how much i can add in one stat before is capped.
inner gulch
I can share https://raider.io/characters/eu/silvermoon/Lexiye if this helps
inner gulch
is specifically to be full def instead of half half
inner gulch
during combat i have 50% haste
strong forum
yeah thats too little
cerulean tusk
But why would you want that, mr Nome? I am new to this, and am wondering why.
strong forum
i myself have 6.8k haste
because if you run that little haste, like you do, you dont have enough uptime on shieldblock
aswell as generally just being inefficient in rage generation compared to what would be possible
jagged pier
that talent choice tho 👀
inner gulch
ow ok then ill swap some gems around
cerulean tusk
Wow-gee, that was some good information. Now I know to build haste
strong forum
with the talent choices you have picked you actuall do have a half and half measure build
inner gulch
that talent choice tho 👀
Is because Ruby and Uldaman killes me so easily
jagged pier
yeah sure but your talents arent helping u live
jagged pier
they probably encouraging u to die
strong forum
youre missing block uptime
you dont have spellblock
spellblock specifically helps you in those keys
not vs kokia, but vs everything else
inner gulch
is there a talent build that you could share ? maybe I can try that one... i have a 16 ruby again and i`m just afraid to do it
jagged pier
theres plenty in the pins
toxic pewter
first time ive ever seen anyone take berserker shout O_O
jagged pier
nome probably needs to update the imortal one to new talents
strong forum
no, should be updated
cerulean tusk
First time I seen immovable object
jagged pier
no, should be updated
not in the pre patch pin at least
but if its updated on wow its updated
jagged pier
strong forum
i can show you how i lived RLP16 first, 2nd and last boss without a healer tho @inner gulch
in a very... interesting key
xd
inner gulch
as a prot ?????
strong forum
ye
inner gulch
where can I watch ? xD
jagged pier
tbh if your struggling its probably a play issue but we cant tell without logs
cerulean tusk
this is wholesome, Nome being a good guy and Jackey being a badcop
jagged pier
<:peepoBlush:818323879315505233> this is wholesome, Nome being a good guy and J...
never bad just truthful
inner gulch
I havent played wow in close to two years, im only back for a month and a week or so... im still adapting :s I still have allot to learn ^^ thats also why i`m here to ask some questions 😒
jagged pier
ive always been blunt
i pretty much exclusivly say that if ppl are dying when they shouldnt be
cerulean tusk
You used to have an edge, now it is all a rollpin
inner gulch
I don`t even know what logs are 😒 or how to make logs, I thought logs wore a thing for raiding
strong forum
nah you can log everything in wow if you choose to do so
inner gulch
is there an addon I need?
austere oar
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2210033761?t=01h18m03s
Sounds like a thing a group shouldn't be able to do, better nerf tanks
cerulean tusk
To log, not really - but it will make it easier.
jagged pier
we used to have a copy pasta about it
strong forum
ya im searching for it
jagged pier
How do i log ?
So, if you have been here for a while, you may have noticed that whenever somebody ask for advice we ask them for a log, and if you’re new you might have no idea what that means or how to get one so :
🔸 First, download Loggerhead (https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/loggerhead) or ERT (https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/exorsus-raid-tools)
Once you have one of these any time you enter a zone where you might want a log (ie dungeon/raid/torghast) these addons will automatically start logging (in the case of ERT you have to activate automated logging in the options).
Alternatively if you don’t want to install an addon for it, whenever you are going to do an activity you want to log type /combatlog in chat to start logging said activity.
Remember to activate advanced logging in the options (System -> Network -> Advanced Combat Logging)
All these options will store your logs in your wow file inside the retail folder and the log file.
🔸 Second, go here (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/client/download) download the client. Select the live section of the client, select the upload a log button and select the fight you’re interested in putting up as a log and boom you’re done.
🔸 Third, once you’ve done all this, your log is uploaded you can put it up here and we can look at it together to see if you’re doing something wrong.
found it
strong forum
Sounds like a thing a group shouldn't be able to do, better nerf tanks
dont worry, warrior wont be able to do this anymore in TWW
youll need to play 2 prot 3 dps
instead of 1 prot 4 dps
cerulean tusk
2h prot, sword and board prot, 3x sword and board arms warriors
jagged pier
jagged pier
yer i said it would 
cerulean tusk
Can only get KSM, not viable, needs buffs
jagged pier
jagged pier
inner gulch
How do i log ?
So, if you have been here for a while, you may have noticed that ...
just a sec to read all. cause is allot of info, i installed the addons just need to read how everything works
cerulean tusk
Take a min or 5, we are here... basically all day
inner gulch
Take a min or 5, we are here... basically all day
xD nice to know , never knew there was a discord just to help newer players learn their class ^^
cerulean tusk
Well, that is not only what we do, but we do that as well
inner gulch
my firnds told me to eqip a sword and shield and just go in dung and learn as i do ,
cerulean tusk
I like your friend
cerulean tusk
jagged pier
Take a min or 5, we are here... basically all day
well he will have to actually run a key as well
jagged pier
cerulean tusk
the freeze in the animation makes me sad
||(also, I would give it two arms and have them a bit less straight angled)||
jagged pier
he just building momentum
grim pilot
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2210033761?t=01h18m03s
shit was fun
cerulean tusk
Warrkeys are fun, till you fear you DCd once in a while, before noticing it is just the affix
cerulean tusk
I dislike sang, but fair
strong forum
better than afflicted raging
jagged pier
wish i was still playing may have got the odd invite like i did with 5 tank keys 
echo kettle
Hi guys, i'm a beginner in to the tanky panky warrior
Is there a talent build that i could follow?
fallow nova
The builds in the pins are good and cover a variety of content
echo kettle
Wow, thanks!
lusty grotto
Wow, thanks!
also the wowhead and icyveins guides
any is fine
mwahi and nome write them, which are the bosses of this channel
urban lotus
Im kind if confused about the changes
lusty grotto
waxen frigate
can actually play the game
Yeah with the 3 other prepatch enjoyers
strong forum
rather that
than continue staring at the ceiling for 6 more weeks
meanwhile theres people saying s4 shouldnt even have happened
jagged pier
ez clap rotate chars into warband do the daily quests to kill the bosses add it all to warbank, ez farm done in half the time
ionic fern
distant fractal
tribal wharf
i recently viewed "doom as an anime", like, from the players pov, and it was genuinely kinda cool, but i wanted it to be the same moves and whatever, but like, dark souls fantasy, how you think you are going to fight, more than a cartoon i guess.
and what im getting at is, i wanted to see that video that was doom but it was quake stuff related, and now im thinking about it as how im thinking about wow/warcraft as well.
basically that logic but applied to warcraft stuff.
stemms from i'm trying to beat quake 1 remaster, and i suck at it, already had to cheat twice, oh well
waxen frigate
than continue staring at the ceiling for 6 more weeks
strong forum
Pass
lusty grotto
who you've been playing
waxen frigate
Super diverse picks
But almost exclusively core
I just came back after stopping in late 2020 when I first got into WoW
strong forum
I'll stick to staring at the ceiling
south zealot
when you need or your team needs 10% extra hp
lusty tiger
When r we playing dota
waxen frigate
why do we bother with rallying cry, when is it helpful
It’s a massive heal/buffer on a raidwide scale
In m+ it’s less specific but it doesn’t cost anything
waxen frigate
When r we playing dota
blazing condor
vi sitter här i venten o spelar lite dota
lusty grotto
dang
dropping the dota song too
i like the way this channel is moving on up to the superior moba
chilly brook
I'm not too terribly invested in which moba is "better" but I will say this, learning DOTA 2 is certainly less approachable than learning league
lusty grotto
i can see that
and thats obviously a bad thing
and they have tried solving it or throwing in modes to ease new players in, but i dont think its been enough
lusty tiger
It’s one of those things that you need to be taught by better players and also be willing to learn
If you have bad clicks you’re going to have a bad time, if you have bad macro you’re going to have a bad time, if you have low game knowledge you’re going to have a bad time
lusty grotto
yup
and objectively fewer people play dota, so
finding friends that play and are willing to troll the shit out of you until you learn
is slightly harder than LoL
pallid quiver
Debatable that "people" play dota type games smh
chilly brook
It’s one of those things that you need to be taught by better players and also b...
I mean the common joke is that the tutorial ends after 1000hrs
That's just a terrible recipe for having a healthy playerbase
At the same token, I can understand why people like it, because there's so much in the game that allows for smart play and to adapt to so many different situations
urban portal
You feel like you are top of the world if you do well
Not too different from cod kill steaks
Streaks
solid sun
It’s one of those things that you need to be taught by better players and also b...
But if I play with my good friends with good game knowledge aren’t I going to get matched up against other good players and just get absolutely demolished
lusty tiger
But if I play with my good friends with good game knowledge aren’t I going to ge...
you also might pick up bad habbits playing against bad players and be stuck being bad
tribal wharf
they gave me a rocket launcher mod that lets me shoot 2 rockets at once....... and it only uses up 1 ammo.... does the dmg of 2 rockets if both connect
thing is overpowered as shit
have to collect special ammo for it sure, but i was just recently at 100 normal and split rockets
lusty tiger
u gotta fail to improve, right yogi?
lusty grotto
true and real
urban bane
That's just a terrible recipe for having a healthy playerbase
i always figured that games that get that kind of investment from you do something to rot your being in some kind of existential way. but then ffxiv has a similarly daunting on-ramp, right? and hugely different kind of community.
fighting game community, too
chilly brook
i always figured that games that get that kind of investment from you do somethi...
daunting no
FFXIV is comfy to get into
urban bane
time consuming, i guess in ffxiv
lusty tiger
fighting game community, too
big melee fan here
chilly brook
time consuming, i guess in ffxiv
Yesn't?
If you care about the story then yes it's like 400 hrs of content to get to max level
urban bane
Ohh you dont have to do all that?
chilly brook
But if you care about the story then the story is what matter
and you should play it like a single player game
urban bane
Oh, true point.
urban bane
That's sick
D'you think that's part of what makes the community -- or at least what people say about it -- less toxic than others?
chilly brook
Ohh you dont have to do all that?
You can just skip cutscenese and reduce it a lot (still gonna be a while before you hit endgame simply because it's a lot of content) or you can boost to like 90 for 25$ and just zip through the DT MSQ
chilly brook
D'you think that's part of what makes the community -- or at least what people *...
I don't think the community is any better tbh
chilly brook
The biggest difference is that they have TOS that's actually enforced so you get toxic positivity instead lol
I mean don't get me wrong there are a lot of genuinely nice people
urban bane
Oh that's also gross though, yeah
chilly brook
Like legit if you're new people are super nice to you
urban bane
Criticism is important, too, and toxic positivity can kinda throw the baby out with the bath water kinda thing
chilly brook
Idk @lusty grotto has been around a lot longer than I have been in FF so he'd be a better person to ask
I'm a baby
Most of that time was spent doing leveling and side content without a care for hitting max level lmao
lusty grotto
Criticism is important, too, and toxic positivity can kinda throw the baby out w...
dont worry it gets pretty toxic
just not in the content that doesnt matter
urban bane
Nice
lusty grotto
doing any of these is pretty chill and almost no toxicity
but
savage/ultimates and crystalline conflict/pvp are different
it gets toxic, just a differenty type of toxicity than WoW
either way there's content for everybody
lusty grotto
i think the only difference is youre not going into a savage expecting people to be nice, whereas in wow you go to a X key and it can get pretty wild even if the key is not arbitrarily high
chilly brook
much more choose your own difficulty
urban bane
that's very interesting. Thanks to you both for the intel, fascinating stuff
lusty grotto
like griff said, you can play it like an SP and just enjoy the story --- but you can also skip shit and go straight to end-game
both are good
chilly brook
It's slow as far as gameplay is concerned up until like mid 50's to 60's but the story is good imo
I probably wouldn't have continued if it wasn't for the story in the beginning
but current end game content is
lusty grotto
yeah this tier is pretty damn fun
pallid quiver
Can agree, FF14 has a rep for being super cozy always nice and polite, but it's often just as toxic as other multiplayer games, even if the spice is different
but you can always just do what they said above
lusty grotto
that reminds me
i have an example
for context, this was on a dumb fucking dungeon that could be cleared while watching netflix
chilly brook
Can agree, FF14 has a rep for being super cozy always nice and polite, but it's ...
The Balance is a wild ride
lusty grotto
and more context is: you cannot comments on people's dps cause then you basically are saying you use addons - which is bannable
but there you go
chilly brook
I said I didn't like Wuk, then got told I might as well just start throwing slurs in the next second
lusty grotto
thats about the extent of toxicity you can see in duty roulettes if anything
and its pretty rare
(sprout = newbie)
pallid quiver
imagine not using the option on your DPS overlay that just scrambles everyone else's name because you couldn't give less of a fuck what the rest of the party is doing
lusty grotto
they had to backpedal out of the "watching his dps"
pretty quickly
otherwise they are signing themselves for a cool beans report
and/or ban
lusty grotto
i was just doing my part
but...
savage/ultimates
and general ranked pvp
thats where shit really happens lmao
lusty grotto
the funny thing about toxicity there
is that they STILL cannot say they are watching your dps/healing
pallid quiver
Extremes were the like, entry high level content, right? I can't remember how the difficult scaling worked Doesn't help that I also played in Japanese which uses a different wording scheme for difficulties
lusty grotto
so its hilarious to be toxic there while fucking zig-zagging about what oyu can say
chilly brook
is that they STILL cannot say they are watching your dps/healing
"Hey man I see you're doing AoE rotation, any reason why?"
pallid quiver
Yeah, I've seen some toxicity in savage, even
chilly brook
Extreme was a wild experience
pallid quiver
er, extreme
chilly brook
as a newer player
lusty grotto
yes there is some toxicity in extreme
urban bane
"Hey man I see you're doing AoE rotation, any reason why?"
that's like middle manager level aggression
a special flavor of toxicity
pallid quiver
And a non zero amount was from to me a friend I know because white tiger man kept sweeping his legs everytime smh
lusty grotto
white tiger man, you mean Byakko
pallid quiver
ye
pallid quiver
Yeah, we were there when it was relevant
lusty grotto
right right
extremes are still kinda toxic just not as much as more difficult content
but most people can clear extremes after a few tries, so its not a huge deal
south zealot
i dont even have haste gems lol
found some leech pants i can equip instead of heavy haste pants though
lusty grotto
bro ngl
i logged on tuesday
saw the event takes 2 fucking hours to pop, logged off
lusty grotto
literally dumped shit in the warbank to organize my inventories, and at least that felt good
toxic pewter
just fyi when it comes to unique items and new warband bank things are sort of wonky it crashed my game when i tried to withdraw certain unique items i had in there and now I cant get back into my game
toxic pewter
fair enough I dont know whats going on
lusty grotto
but again that was on tuesday, so idk if something changed
pallid quiver
saw the event takes 2 fucking hours to pop, logged off
excuse me, it's only 1.5 hours
lusty grotto
11 hours!!!
merry sluice
Yeah I haven’t bothered with the event yet
pallid quiver
I've been just logged in while doing other things, timer set for 1.5 hours
do the like 10 minute event
go back to work/other games/jumping off cliffs/etc
merry sluice
My only experience with the event has been it directly making RP miserable bc Moonguard is a lag fest and we keep getting booted from blizz devices
pallid quiver
my other experience is people chucking death threats and the like over the lag
lusty grotto
sounds like good ole general chat
pallid quiver
that somehow mysteriously happens when you try and funnel almost the entire player base at a specific given point in time into one zone specifically, with it also being an old zone with expected low traffic
I've had at least one person seriously say they should just remove xpac content from the game once the xpac is over to make it go faster
toxic pewter
I remember in hardcore wow someone talked down on my name in general chat so I challenged em to a mak'gora at the crossroads.. killed that individual.. we were both like lvl 13..
pallid quiver
I've been called a blizz simp so many times the past day or so
lusty grotto
tell him to sit down
toxic pewter
i forget his name..
hardcore wow actually was pretty fun made actions actually matter
lusty grotto
I've been called a blizz simp so many times the past day or so
lmao if only they knew
merry sluice
I've had at least one person seriously say they should just remove xpac content ...
That sounds like MG trade chat 24/7 when they aren’t lusting over goats or rage baiting rogue players/politics
lusty grotto
delete character
south zealot
bro i see why some ppl struggle with agro
fury hits 3 buttons and immediately is doing 2 mil dps
holding agro on that is a strug
lusty grotto
right
i get why he said that the other day
but what can you do, its kind of out of our control
fury is also eating good with 2p 2p
merry sluice
Not me on my 500ilvl BDK in a rando 10 last night with some fury I’ve never seen in my life doing 900k burst in every other pack
Like what the fuck lol
pallid quiver
well, hopefully this fixes the "into the void" issue
rigid yew
Just did the prepatch event.... I think they gave the job to a single intern. It was essentially unplayable with a 5 minute window on a 90 minute reset.
wicked basin
anyone on that can help me
im new and need help with spell placement on action bars
lusty grotto
12345
qefcxz
shift + any of those
alt + any of those
ctrl + any of those
a lot of it depends on what you can reach comfortably
and a lot of it depends on how frequent you use the different abilities
wicked basin
i know that but whats our rotation/priority
lusty grotto
SS/TC/Rev/SB/IP should be easy to reach and spammable and Wall/Troar/Rav/Exec/Avatar kind of easy to reach
SS (shield slam) > TC (thunder clap) > Revenge/Execute
thats our prio
keep Shield Block (SB) up all the time if possible, use IP when over 60 rage as a rage dump
that prio will probably change in TWW
but the spells will be the same so
just a rearranging of it if anything
and will depend on which hero tree youre playing
lusty grotto
i know that but whats our rotation/priority
does that answer your question?
wicked basin
yes ty
lusty grotto
shy python
keep Shield Block (SB) up all the time if possible, use IP when over 60 rage as ...
Here you tell this but when I recommend using a SS/SB makro which guarantees an 100% uptime infight you get mad. 😁
lusty grotto
Here you tell this but when I recommend using a SS/SB makro which guarantees an ...
wheres the log
your macro does not guarantee shit
shy python
I have none nor do we need one. The case is simple.
lusty grotto
until we see a log with this 100% uptime with 30% haste
jagged pier
Im still waiting for the log, im still waiting for the lpg to prove to me dirupting shout is useful as well. But ppl woild rather just tell me onstead of prove things to me
lusty grotto
your claims are bullshit
yeah well
not a whole lot we can do about but to call their BS
jagged pier
Im very happy for pp to prove the data wrong with data
shy python
I bet you have way more time to play.
Why not just test it yourself?
jagged pier
Because i already know its a bad idea the same way i knew ppl under used intim shout
Which is what was proved to me when ppl tried to prove to me disrputing shout was good
If you have a hypoethsis in science u test it
And should proof
To back up your idea
You dont just go earth is flat
They might be wrong but at leaat they show there working
shy python
If you have a hypoethsis in science u test it
All I can do for now is gathering Details aura screenshots.
And I wonder why this isnt enough.
jagged pier
All nim ask for was for you to runa dungeon or a raid or both
And log it
That literally
Is typeing /combatlog in the chat window at the start
And pressing upload
Really hard
Thing to do to prove us wrong
shy python
Is typeing /combatlog in the chat window at the start
Never done this, never knew this. But I will try next time.
jagged pier
Me and nome both linked how to log yesterday
shy python
Wasn't here yesterday.
jagged pier
Ppl refusing to do it and just arguing based on bad data is just a waste of everyones time
You ither provide data or stpp trying to push bad things
lusty grotto
Wasn't here yesterday.
here you go #protection message
jagged pier
Because amazing me and nome do have a lot mpre playtime that you
And we have talked about and probably tried a lot of these things out in the past
Hence we already know it is bad
And also as i have said i dont know how many fucking times this expansion
One tuning patch
And we go down to 70% blocked hits and u have to manage sb again
lusty grotto
jagged pier
And your used to your macro and suddenly you cant play the spec remotely closly
So why start a bad habit when there literally 0 point in creating one
shy python
So why start a bad habit when there literally 0 point in creating one
Cause we always get more abilities but our amount of keybinds stays the same.
jagged pier
So add more key bindings
That what ive done over the years
Its made me a better player
I was still clicking in MoP
Took me till bfa to prpperly stop
Yes it takes a long time and has lead to me have horrible keybindings
shy python
Well I did that and now there is nothing more to add.
jagged pier
I mean thats just wrong i think nome has like 50 keybinds
Which is way more than we need
And imo ppl bind unescary stuff like mounts and pots etc
But each there own. But flat out saying i have no more keybindings is not true in 99% of the time
shy python
Mounts are macrod with battleshout, pummel, and other stuff.
jagged pier
But again youve provide no evidence you have just said u have no more to use 
Like someone the other said was stugglong with keybinds we found them like 10 more ina matter of mintues
shy python
But each there own. But flat out saying i have no more keybindings is not true i...
Then say: I have no more keybinds to add which I could feel comfortable with.
jagged pier
Hence why you adapt like me. It will make you a better player yes you might die a bit more often but youll get there
And suddenly even adding one button adds 3 keybinds
Because of shift and cntl modifers
shy python
Naah. I'm to old for this shit 🙂
jagged pier
Your literally being stubborn for no reason
And yes what nim said
We recommend what is best here and if you spread wrong information as a recommendation your going to get pushback
But its incorrect information
We dont want to spread that to ppl
lusty grotto
right, and then you backed it up with unproven claims
shy python
its that you **recommended** it
Yeah I'm sorry for not being precise. I mean something like "Use this macro if you are lazy and if you don‘t care about hardcore minmaxing".
jagged pier
Its not about hardcoare minmaxing
lusty grotto
keeping up a maintenance buff is absolutely not hardcore minmaxing
jagged pier
Its about creating bad habits and play the spec incorrectly
Which is what the macro encourages
Your literally covered by haste and talents atm
lusty grotto
yup and its the core of prot warrior defensively
jagged pier
And even then you will get less blocked hits than someone playing correctly
If you dont want to improve then thats perfectly fine. But if you dont you shouldnt be giving advice to ppl
Or recommending things
As people come here to get better
Not worse
lusty grotto
shy python
Its about creating bad habits and play the spec incorrectly
Nim just said "keep sb up all the time"
Which means nothing more than press sb on CD and that's what the macro does.
lusty grotto
youre putting words in my mouth
cause that 2nd line is absolutely not it
that does not mean macro it to something
or use it on cd
it means maintain it
jagged pier
Keeping shield block up all the time and macroing it into an abilitly are not the same thing
He means maintain tbe buff at the correct times so u get maximum use out of it like if there 1 mob left on half health why send sb pointless might as well save it for the next pack
Or if im not tanking a raid boss amd need sb for when im tanking again
Why send it
Yes more damage but there is a point where u dont
Because you want your charges back for when you start tanking again
So you have to save y
Your goal isnt 100% uptime
Ots as close to 100% blocked hits as you can get.
Whic can only be shown on logs
spark verge
Guys how u survive 1sr boss in Ruby life pool. I was on 16+ and i was getting reckd
lusty grotto
spell block and spell reflect
jagged pier
I can have 100% uptime and block no hits at all
jagged pier
Guys how u survive 1sr boss in Ruby life pool. I was on 16+ and i was getting re...
Uses spell block and sr and sw when they are needed. Ask for externals when i dont have them
shy python
I can have 100% uptime and block no hits at all
How would that be possible? Let mobs hit your back all the time?
shy python
Yeah. Wow. 🤨
jagged pier
Cause it doesnt show you what you actually block
Just shows you the buff uptime
Doesnt show if you are using correctly
Its why we strongly encourage logging
south zealot
Im still waiting for the log, im still waiting for the lpg to prove to me dirupt...
disrupting shout atleast has the potential to be useful, though very sparingly
ss sb macro is just proveably bad no matter what
shy python
Positioning and using SB are two different things.
south zealot
BEST case its even to having 2 binds
jagged pier
disrupting shout atleast has the potential to be useful, though very sparingly
It does but ppl telling me its a pug saver would just link me logs of them not stopping anything with disrupting shout
Or even better not pressing intim shout all run
south zealot
oh definitely
jagged pier
south zealot
i dont even bother with ppl when they say they take the talent
maybe im just stupid but every time ive talented it i forgot i had it
jagged pier
Disrupting shout is amazing for letting you do pulls you couldnt do without it
Ppl arguing with me were not hsing it for that and were under utilizing our other utility
Thats all the logs i got linked proved to me
Same woth s1 amd the ss /sb macros
There were a lot of ppl doing it in s1 cause of fotm rerollers
And every single one of them had far less blocked hits than me in keys etc
Because they werent managing sb correctly
But their details showed big uptime so they must be using it correctly
Right?
south zealot
the only way you have 100% uptime on sb with the macro is using hr
which is just sooooo bad in s4
jagged pier
We havent looking into fully yet but you may actualky have to manage sb in raid in tww with all the buffs we just got. You might be playing demo execute talents for all we know
So you will have no rage and it will be difficult to keep sb up all the time
shy python
Right?
Right.
If you are facing the mobs and have 100% uptime you block 100% hits. It's not rocket science.
jagged pier
Right again is it not obvious ive been through this with ppl before
And thats literally never the case
And again they have less blocked hits than i do
When i dont even think and sb management that much
shy python
And again they have less blocked hits than i do
Maybe they got hit in the back?
jagged pier
Or maybe they thing they have it up because of the macro
lusty grotto
Yanthir, for a 5 second timeframe that is possible, for a longer amount of time its not
jagged pier
But they have over spent it because of the macro
And so they dont have it for 10 seconds
The they under use their other buttons
lusty grotto
and they also hit the duration cap
jagged pier
So the probelm just gets worse
lusty grotto
extremely easily
jagged pier
and they also hit the duration cap
This too
Over a dungeon a raid fight etc
You will over spend
And loose correct uptime
It always happens because your never not gunna press SS
And if you turn around and say well i do because i dont want to waste sb uptime at the end of a pack etc.
Just stop
Because thats also horrendously bad to do for the spec itself
But again we arent stopping you or anyone from playing it we are just telling you why it is bad and not recommend
Which is what we are supposed to do
shy python
I get your point.