wdym when you have enough haste it's equally brainless
#protection
round pendant
jagged gust
eh
plush tendon
ITF is the same way; gives more GCDs and also lowers SB CD
lusty grotto
Turns out haste affects other things like gcd
lusty grotto
Indeed
plush tendon
HR is really the 'I have low haste, please help' option
ITF is default once you hit the threshold
lusty grotto
Yup
upper kestrel
hello guys can anyone suggest a good prot warrior guide, where to watch and understand how to keep aggro and how to use defensive?
lusty grotto
Sense
Plka
Nomeratur
All 3 on YouTube, but they don't have guides
Or on twitch
jagged gust
Quazzii/Tactyks are good for dungeon tutorials
fallow nova
I love me some Quazzii dungeon guides
lusty grotto
Read the wowhead and icyveins guides, not just the overviews and get back to us on anything specific
An we'll be happy to answer any more specific questions
fallow nova
Alternatively, macro Shield Slam to every button (even movement) and yell at your healer if you die.
merry sluice
🤔
fallow nova
'tis a joke
Largely just referecing how 99% of the advice I see on here is "you need to be pressing SS a lot more"
(and rightfully so)
fallow nova
It is as of TWW launch 😉
toxic pewter
fyi everyone do not sell or destroy an item you need. item restoriation is not working ( for NA at least)
hardy snow
I was hoping that this become warbound in prepatch, cause I have one half on one character, and 2nd on another, but unfortunately no 
lusty grotto
hardy snow
wasnt SW 50% dr, or im just stupid?
blazing condor
nop
strong forum
it was 50% in SL
toxic pewter
my strongly toned email worked for everyone apparently https://www.wowhead.com/news/na-accounts-receiving-compensation-game-time-for-extended-downtime-345456?utm_source=discord-webhook
your welcome NA players
lusty grotto
youre the hero we needed, not the hero we deserved
toxic pewter
I do what I must... because I can..
pallid quiver
it feels really bad to decide to hit casual lfr to get my stormspirits for that transmog stuff
and the other tank is in DPS spec and refuses to even attempt to help
and i'm doing more damage than them at a lower ilvl
fallow nova
LFR is a crazy place
pallid quiver
even worse when it's nymue time so i have to keep piking off so i do less damage
toxic pewter
wat u mean stormspirits wat is that
oh i did that already for the new transmogs right.
best place to farm those is find the active fyrakk suffused camp and farm the mini boss forgemaster that people summon often. Also the world boss drops a bunch
vale bolt
Yea I did suffused farming for about 20 minutes and got my 500
round pendant
god damn pwar SUCKS in cata
miserable ass spec
I take it back as well, I don't want to have to rely on healers in retail
pallid quiver
yeah it feels like shit in Cata
It feels even worse than WotLK
on the bright side, panda soon
and that feels real good
round pendant
also why does everything hurt so bad in these levelling dungeons
shield wall still get chunked for 40% every auto attack
round pendant
on the bright side, panda soon
soon?
toxic pewter
Supposedly it’s fixed everyone
No more failed reflects. Never again will a spell not reflect.
strong forum
no trust
dark barn
real fossil
Wait was the spell reflect bug actually fixed
vivid orchid
solemn current
Shoutout Mwahi he was the only one that believed in me. Can't believe it took this long lol. Feels like it's been happening since at some point in S2.
shut summit
tribal wharf
what about an effct like, debuff ignore
where its debuff X on you is 10% less longer up time
that seems like warrir thing
i duno
well, a dispell able or CC debuff i should state,
im not positive reflect is broken, was i mean, seemed like it would have been isolated when it doesnt go off, basically had to do it in lair
primal tulip
the tank nerfs already happen or only in tww? @ me
weary saddle
only in tww
pearl rose
So does everyone hate prot now?
lusty grotto
2 points in Endurance Training or 2 points in Armoured to the Teeth?
neither
1 point Attt, 1 point TW
thunderous words
0 points in Endurance Training
its either that or use the pinned build
which is 0 TW 2 Attt
both of those work
no reason to even think about putting a point in Endurance Training
you will not need the extra stam when every item got a stam buff
vale bolt
I would have though 10% stam would be pretty strong
lusty grotto
its not
vale bolt
True I suppose
Interesting thought that we take the cdr on TR instead of the normal TW
solemn current
Stam does nothing but help you live one shots, and you should never be getting one shot.
merry sluice
if ur not dying
why die less?
if u are dying, is it a situation where more health would help, or did you fuck up your defensive cycle, take backshots, or just stand in something stupid
solemn current
There's also just the argument that Strength will save you more than Stamina every time
lusty grotto
use the pinned build and play 1 Attt and 1 thunderous words (based on the pinned build), or use the pinned build without any changes
grim pilot
Stam does nothing but help you live one shots, and you should never be getting o...
Not really
More stamina, higher IP cap
So this is cool
If they actually fixed it
urban portal
I would have though 10% stam would be pretty strong
Stam is the weakest defensive stat
But it’s still decent
Mitigation is generally better
But here endurance training has a lot of cost
lusty coyote
Have we been away?
jagged pier
no
lusty coyote
Thats what I though
hardy pine
Are the prot talents on icy-veins any good ? i'm just casual player not mythic raider or mythic +5 or higher player
blazing condor
Yes
small garden
icy-veins or wowhead?
fallow nova
I typically lean more towards wowhead nowadays, but both guides are good.
charred ivy
We're so back boys
What did they change with prot?
remote tusk
Armor is capped at 85% Phys DR?
lavish sphinx
What did they change with prot?
Nothing, I’m just back to playing it
charred ivy
Ah haha
waxen frigate
icy-veins or wowhead?
Both are good and their respective authors are active in this discord
If you have specific questions I’m sure they’re happy to answer them
small garden
ay, nice, thanks
jagged granite
Hey boyz, how do you deal with the crocz in Uldaman? kitelife? Evoker?
worthy isle
Very much considering prot warrior as my main for TWW. As the experts and experienced tanks. What are your thoughts on prot at the moment?
waxen frigate
Prot looks very strong, and usually is a great pick compared to other tanks at the very start of the xpac
It’s probably going to be my secondary character but might be my main for s1 depending on my raid’s needs
(My main/favorite is brew)
worthy isle
My raid has so many monks, I tanked as vdh for df, AotC guild. The nerf to illuminated Sigler has just killed my interest in my dh. I took prot for a heroic spin and really enjoyed it.
rigid yew
@worthy isle Prot is consistently strong but rarely the popular pick.
I would always recommend you play what you find is the most fun for you. There is not a single class that cannot be competitive in a general sense. The overwhelming majority of top players know their class inside and out and have tailored it to their own playstyle making it shine.
worthy isle
<@679126672410279966> Prot is consistently strong but rarely the popular pick.
I...
Agreed. I was more looking for insights into doing prot well, and tricks the experienced players use that newbies and random YouTube creators aren't as aware of
waxen frigate
My raid has so many monks, I tanked as vdh for df, AotC guild. The nerf to illum...
If you’re raiding at an aotc level you have 2 options
Play whatever you want or fit a buff your group wants but doesn’t have
In many cases the DH buff is the most valuable in the game currently
Whereas warrior’s buff is usually near the bottom along with monk
But the strength of the spec itself is barely relevant in mythic let alone heroic, so I wouldn’t worry about that at all
balmy meadow
Whereas warrior’s buff is usually near the bottom along with monk
warrior buff is way better than monks wdym. its an ap modifier so it affects any str/agi class
balmy meadow
idk any serious raid will always want one
waxen frigate
I didn’t say otherwise
balmy meadow
im passionate about our raid buff lol
balmy meadow
its literally AI
median kayak
is there any real option to get the market talent without a major overall los ?
or do prot wars play without the mass silence at all ? but for me it seems really nice if there is a way to take it
patent osprey
is there any real option to get the market talent without a major overall los ? ...
No matter what u do its a dam loss to take aoe silence/taunt however a number of prot wars including myself will drop eithe mr enduring alacrity or some do bloodsurge on tyran for it on high keys because it makes pulls very smooth
median kayak
can u mark the ones ur dropping if needed ... sry im new to prot dont know the names of all talents
okay found the 2 u mentioned ^^
flint oriole
This is good for mitics?
jagged pier
I mean i would just check the builds in the pins
fallow nova
So the healing on Second Wind below 35% - how far does it scale beyond 1%/sec between 35-0% hp?
balmy meadow
i believe up to 2%
fallow nova
ah, not a lot then
lusty grotto
This is good for mitics?
sure but you dont need
swap it to uproar
and wild strikes
we have pinned builds too
cerulean tusk
2h prot warr
flint oriole
<a:Pedro:1235907106809581589> 2h prot warr
how
cerulean tusk
BDK is
jagged pier
been years
cerulean tusk
It kinda shaped up in SLs4
cerulean tusk
Oh ye, Legion BDK was a thing
Legion for me was the best prot warr - but that is likely nostalgia.
Cause all I remember is ppl saying Nelth shield was a bad CD, and I loved the auto crit block it gave
jagged pier
i mean it was bad because it did negative damage and u had to stand still
but if u wanted to solo tank varimathras yer great
cerulean tusk
In my head it was always just a solid defencive for those big slappy hits that could be blocked
craggy harness
but the pose!
cerulean tusk
Wonder if they could reintroduce it, just not as an rooted effect
craggy harness
Modify it into a skateboard shield
that you can kick flip into your hand to block
with two shields
cerulean tusk
The 2x shields fantasy push keeps on truckin'
sad part, it is likely we will see 2x Shield before we see shield + spear
craggy harness
I had a few seconds to choose to make it into a 2h fantasy or a 2xshield fantasy
one day
craggy harness
same day polearms will extend melee range
frosty holly
Just implement short-spear and make it warrior only
cerulean tusk
Ngl, extendo range on tanks is illegal
I am so done being smacked by bosses, cause tank dont move in
Running over to the bear, standing behind him, yelling at him to move in - never fun
frosty holly
THe amount of pug tanks on adds like Elemental in RLP
"I had aggro" yea dude but you didn't stand next to it
craggy harness
cerulean tusk
To be fair, they prob should have a clearer attack animation - cause they look like they just channel and cast :p
frosty holly
I guess.
craggy harness
Ngl, extendo range on tanks is illegal
yeah, i was thinking of it as a separate fantasy for dps
plush tendon
bdk is bad
jagged pier
no need to be angy i say it alot because its my personal opinion 
cerulean tusk
jagged pier
round pendant
imagine this scenario
couple of mobs do some normal slow cast that I can CC just to save some damage but also some other mob has a big spell that has to be kicked or we wipe
I cc the pack as a dps player kicks a split second too late
no cd on the wipe cast? we die? (assuming all kicks are down and no cc)
I don't like the cc's don't cause cd change I have decided
cerulean tusk
hm, so move reverb and honed I guess
jagged pier
id move movement speed probs
lusty grotto
cerulean tusk
Aight, doubletime achieved, anything else strikes?
cerulean tusk
yea, I do it every season
round pendant
just play arms??
lusty grotto
funky likes to meme
round pendant
arms owns
lusty grotto
that defeats the purpose
round pendant
Honestly would be kinda cool to have a real 2h prot variant
can pwar dual wield? I don't think so since like classic right?
cerulean tusk
Why did knights stop using shields; platearmor - why are we still using shields - who knows?
2h prot warr when?! 
(no we cant duelwield as prot warr sadly)
round pendant
:(
cerulean tusk
Think talents are as good as they come - aight, wish me luck, I am off to get smashed by mobs
lusty grotto
round pendant
I swear wowhead's spell descriptions are awful
lusty grotto
you mean WoW's spell descriptions
round pendant
naw
also item descriptions are scuffed too
why's it so awkward to pick item versions like specific ilvls and stuff
lusty grotto
thats filtering
not descriptions
descriptions are pulled from the game's tooltips
lusty grotto
i dont think wowhead can do much for filtering
and ilvl scaling
the game changes that shit so much
it would be extremely inefficient to make it work
lusty grotto
just go to raidbots
round pendant
I guess that works
Kinda have to have the game open or pray I have the item equipped to fetch it from my armory
but it'll do
lusty grotto
no
do what jakey is saying
and if the game is not open you can simply fetch from armory
frosty holly
Heck you can even take the info from the gearcompare script and add to other parts of raidbots if you want to
narrow forge
Hello im new to the spec and have a small question: Do we ever press slam and/or whirlwind?
lusty grotto
no, read the pins
frosty holly
# Manic Grieftorch (528)
# trinket1=,id=194308,bonus_id=10418/1602/8767
@round pendant If you didn't get it yet
Aa right # makes stuff big
lusty grotto
frosty holly
Thanks Nim
lusty grotto
you can do this so its a bit more clean:
as in, newline (enter) after the 3 `
and before them
and itll show up like this
# Manic Grieftorch (528)
# trinket1=,id=194308,bonus_id=10418/1602/8767
TIL
frosty holly
If you do mark everything you do get a few options. one is ` But only gives a singular at start and end
frosty holly
Why mine looked so "unclean"
frosty holly
toxic pewter
what abilities can u not use when using 2h
i guess shield slam/block obviously
can u revenge
jagged pier
ss
cerulean tusk
I can press WW, exe, TC basically
jagged pier
u could press slam
toxic pewter
interesting
jagged pier
like normal slam
cerulean tusk
sums it up ^^
jagged pier
yes
you will take a shit tone of damage im pretty sure funky just memeing in low keys
because going high u will just die
frosty holly
Hehe, still cool
cerulean tusk
yeye just 10s and stuff
frosty holly
Actually surprised even 10s are doable
cerulean tusk
lusty grotto
lol
toxic pewter
ignore pain works right
lusty grotto
of course
toxic pewter
does shield wall work
lusty grotto
it works for arms
toxic pewter
i guess not for shield wall right
cerulean tusk
SW works
toxic pewter
gonna go 2h in remix
as i get the last bronze i need
ngl having 360 ww is more fun than revenge lmao
rigid edge
Hear me out, 2H + Shield
lusty grotto
we've heard it before
rigid edge
Make it happen
lusty grotto
same as dual wield shield
rigid edge
Oh shit dual wield shield, I want that
rigid edge
Jokes aside, I think it would fit the class fantasy well
toxic pewter
if anything unlock transmogs for 2h, dual shield, etc.. blizz cant do it for actual equipping them because the weapon drops eceonomy is already tight for 1h weapons and stuff
even 2h, adding another spec that wants them can mess it all up
lusty grotto
blizzard cant balance 2h vs 1h
see SMF
and the joke it has been for the most part
rigid edge
I mean yeah
I was wondering just now, you think if they add a new tank class it would use shields?
toxic pewter
nah next in line is a class that uses bows/guns or daggers or warglaives
rigid edge
Pirate
toxic pewter
would be interesting lol
rigid edge
Yarr it would
toxic pewter
lol
toxic pewter
walk the plank..
tribal wharf
doesnt count, clearly temp buffed versa
that or wtf, why did u gem to have 14k versa
rigid edge
I wonder how a pirate class would work in wow, I mean, we do have pirate NPCs, but I do know everyone will say "well, that's outlaw"
tribal wharf
i STILL think that rogues should be able to hand out the potions to raid and party members, similiar to warlock healthstones
that change alone would make me play wow and play dps rogue
lusty grotto
everyone hands out potions in beta
its a new potion mechanic
you throw them and people get buffed/healed
rigid edge
You get a potion! You get a potion! You get a potion!
lusty grotto
so it'll happen in TWW
toxic pewter
are those throwing potions actually gonna be used or wat do they share cd with self use pots
lusty grotto
hard to say
toxic pewter
def interesting i will say
tribal wharf
rogues have a PVP thing that they hand out a botle of wine essentially (clear glass container with murky red liquid) [Read: its a lock HS, but janky]
and i think that, not all classes need to have this type of crap
round pendant
lmao wtf +10s as 2h prot is viable with that much vers?
That's nuts
new meta for low keys
lusty grotto
its a 10
tribal wharf
i dont think like, all clases should get every ability
lusty grotto
everything is viable in a 10
yogi
its a consumable
not an ability
its in TWW
that's it
tribal wharf
and i should be able to invisibility charge while paladin bubbled and then purge the enemy of his debuffs and put a lightning shield on my self ring of frost him and like, deathstrike my self up to full health
lusty grotto
no, thats not what were discussiing
tribal wharf
like, thats too much, but i think that a little bit of overlap doesnt hurt
round pendant
everything is viable in a 10
Man I know +10s aren't hard but they're not braindead zero effort/gear required
lusty grotto
why do i forget im talking to yogi
lusty grotto
idk, 10s feel pretty braindead to me
cerulean tusk
round pendant
idk, 10s feel pretty braindead to me
I mean shit like croc bleeds still require you to turn some neurons on
no??
lusty grotto
🤷
cerulean tusk
ye crocks had to be staggered :p
merry sluice
I mean the biggest thought process is
“Do I shockwave or stand next to a pillar”
lusty grotto
chomp will not matter if youre wearing a shield or a 2h
there's literally nothing to gain with either or
round pendant
I'm not talking about 2h-ing, just the fact that shit CAN kill you if you just stand there doing nothing like you can in lower than +10s
bronze lake
Heavy repercussions or into the fray? Is it just whatever feels better?
tribal wharf
theres alot less neurons i have to turn on if the game is something like a famicom mega man clone and the only thing i have to worry about is jump and shoot
negative nearly
lusty grotto
Heavy repercussions or into the fray? Is it just whatever feels better?
heavy repercussions if youre under 5400 haste rating
ITF if youre over that
bronze lake
Thank you
lusty grotto
I'm not talking about 2h-ing, just the fact that shit CAN kill you if you just s...
i did 10s week 1
merry sluice
I mean in the first chunk of Uldaman ur more likely to be killed by the group not stopping casters ;p
lusty grotto
so i guess all of this is subjective
merry sluice
Uldaman basilisk are insanely overrated imo. They’re bitch made
tribal wharf
not as a key at tleast
round pendant
10s in low gear definitely requires some mental effort
lusty grotto
but funky doesnt have low gear
merry sluice
even then I’d say that’s subjective
I only found week 1 10s hard in terms of pug dps dying to every single boss xD
lusty grotto
so the relative difficulty is lower
round pendant
I'm not even talking about funky, just the fact that you said "it's a 10 everything is viable"
merry sluice
Warrior is prob one of, if not the best tanks to undergear stuff as
lusty grotto
where everyone is ilvl capped
tribal wharf
the only time i really enjoy getting completely rail-roaded in a video game is if the game or premise is completely new and fresh to me
lusty grotto
it should have been evident that i was taking that into consideration
lusty grotto
the later into a season, the lower the relative difficulty of a key is, up to a certain point
because gear is better
tribal wharf
depends if you practice it too or not
if i keep playing mega man and mario games, every day, chances are i'll be better at them, compared someone who isnt playing that
lusty grotto
not talking specifically about you yogi
round pendant
bro stop talking about yo boomer-ass games
lusty grotto
youre a special case
round pendant
I'm kidding
tribal wharf
i was playing cocoron last 2 days, finally beat that damned ant eater tapir
merry sluice
Bro what in the fuck is a cocoron
round pendant
My whole point was that stuff can hurt enough in +10s (especially during fort), even now, that I'm surprised gutting your spec by going 2h works
I guess they did give us those nutty armor gains too though
lusty grotto
Bro what in the fuck is a cocoron
yogi is hipstering
tribal wharf
Famicom/NES game heavily inspired by megaman as it was made with at least one of the devs on MM 1 to 3
probably one of the best games on FC
tribal wharf
right
well, im saying if you practice at a game like that
your going to be good at it
and its probably going to be fun to do
lusty grotto
sure
tribal wharf
which applies to me how i feel about uldaman
mists
etc
i had bad experiences and its next to impossible for me to give a fuck any more
and it likely wont change
lusty grotto
awesome
cerulean tusk
Can someone give me the TLDR of the wall of text?
round pendant
yogi likes megaman
cerulean tusk
Neat, megaman was fun
round pendant
Do you like the doom reboots yogi
cerulean tusk
I smell sarcasm, sarcasm?
round pendant
I only played DOOM 2016
I didn't like it
Audio mixing was so bad
Guess the gameplay is fun enough but it felt so weird to play
You gotta play that game on speakers, not headphones
lusty grotto
twitchy ID games are the best
tribal wharf
i like both
lusty grotto
but then again eternal is bethesda
tribal wharf
i like slow methodical killing games, max payne as example
lusty grotto
carmack aint even working on them since he moved out of the company
but they are fun
the bethesda ones
so it is what it is
lusty grotto
thats always fun
tribal wharf
ya but like no fuckin shit i like megaman, who the hell doesnt like playing a mega man game
literal the best video game franchise ever beside zelda mario
round pendant
Nim I feel like +10s, if I do the one or two mechanics I have to actually care about, the rest is down to other players doing enough damage/kicks/etc
lusty grotto
round pendant
am I right
lusty grotto
im a HK enjoyer nowadays
round pendant
cause I'd say 2/3rds of my +10s go to shit
lusty grotto
forever waiting on silksong
round pendant
even tho I do the same shit every time and the times it works it just goes smooth and the other times it's a disaster
lusty grotto
basically the only sidescroller i have played in the last couple of years
round pendant
Hollow Knight is a masterpiece
tribal wharf
i recently bought fallout and orcs must die games will do those some day
lusty grotto
im not exactly sure whats happening now, but i imagine there are undergeared returning players
so even if shit hits the fan
the key is still timeable
with gear, if gear is not present
merry sluice
my favourite was hopping into a rando 9 on my bdk
and having a mage do half my dps
lusty grotto
then you will probably be closer to the early weeks of the season
lusty grotto
anyway my point is
mistakes mean nothing if the key is timeable
and timers have been extremely forgiving since... s2?
cerulean tusk
Friendly reminder, week 1 keys s3 were easiers than keys are now, in the 10-15 range, due to players now that has moved up into it.
lusty grotto
yeah thats a good point
a lot of returning players dont know 10s are 20s
or were 20s
cerulean tusk
They just a lot less experienced and tilt easily
lusty grotto
agreed
round pendant
I'm not talking about pre-patch but just the last month or so of this season
it was rough in anything above a +8
and I feel like so many people were just carried by vdh sigils
Feel like I had significantly better players in +8s than 9s and 10s
cerulean tusk
Nah, the only factor is playerskill when it comes to keys as low like that. There is no "carry" and shitzle. If we did keys in time, farmed them, with 489 faster and with less issues - now it is harder, with more gear; as the ppl you play with in that bracket changed out to the less skilled ones.
This will hold true the start of any season launch (with exception of filler seasons like s4, that didnt require gear progression)
lusty grotto
if youre blindly hopping on groups youre gonna have portal chasers
which may or may not be geared, may or may not be good
especially in the last weeks of the regular season, fearing that portal achieves would go away
but you dont run into portal chasers and/or raid title/mount chasers if you run your own groups
either way thats beside the point
when it comes to our surv
most here are ilvl capped, so our individual survivability is not extremely scuffed with a meme build like funky's
merry sluice
If roleplaying has taught me anything
There’s a shocking amount of players who think doing 10s is some godgamer level feat, and they think getting 2k will be too hard for them
Idk what to do with this info but it’s a thing I’ve noticed over the past few seasons, seems to be a semi common sentiment
lusty grotto
yeah thats been pretty normal and commonplace since keys were introduced in legion
cerulean tusk
remember, by virtue of investing the time alone by being skyhold, you likely in the top 10% of the playerbase. Not 10% ranked players, as those again a sup portion of ppl that are unranked/ranked.
For most players HC raid is a challenge, M+10 a true hurdle. But in here, in skyhold, we would say it is ez as eating pie.
merry sluice
The annoying part tho is a big chunk of them just don’t wanna put in time in, get ilvl, or bother learning their class
And will complain if they don’t get into groups as a rando dps
Had some shadow priest on moon guard tell me to kill myself and call me elitist last season bc I said im not taking him into my keys when he hasn’t even played the season yet
plush tendon
arent Mythic 0 going to be equal to Mythic 10 but without a timer?
maybe that would make people more willing to try it
lusty grotto
its the same as it is now
m0 are s3 m10s right now, so theres no change from this season
merry sluice
The highest hurdle I see for more people is they just don’t wanna put in the time or effort, or are really really sensitive to being told they’re making mistakes/doing something wrong/don’t wanna learn
At that point idk why they bother, no one is making them play
plush tendon
but IDK
merry sluice
It’s so weird to me
cerulean tusk
Nah, ppl just got some ego issues and that jazz. System is fine. They just default to: "It is not me, it is X, Y or Z"
plush tendon
The highest hurdle I see for more people is they just don’t wanna put in the tim...
meanwhile Im over here thinking I'm shit cause I didnt get title XD
I guess its all relative
merry sluice
I do see a lot of that. Said shadow priest that told me to kms blamed it on shadow priest being ‘too weak’
And claimed it wasn’t ‘even that strong last season’ (last season being s2 at that time)
cerulean tusk
I cant do 10s cause warrior is bad. Ignoring facts of others doing it on their warrior in 489 gear, while they are 529. The mental is just different. They dont improve, as they are too busy trying to put blame upon others and other systems.
lusty grotto
but yeah shit is wild if they claimed s2 SP wasnt strong
cerulean tusk
Even that SP is just another example of excuses, if that is his "I cant"
plush tendon
SP is unironically not great in lower keys
merry sluice
their tier was no bueno
Yes but it’s not stopping him from getting ksm
And it certainly wasn’t ’not that strong s2’
lusty grotto
yeah agreed
cerulean tusk
it isnt, but it wont stop you from doing a freaking 10
plush tendon
like, if your gameplay was get to 10s and chill, SP aint all that
tribal wharf
SP is always always always one of those specs that is extremely hit and miss for me
plush tendon
it pops off in higher keys though
tribal wharf
complete gamble if they are dog shit or gods
bronze locust
Would people enjoy m+ more if a completion meant progress in level and getting it done in time extra loot and levels?
plush tendon
and is a absolute beast
plush tendon
Would people enjoy m+ more if a completion meant progress in level and getting i...
who knows
I think theres a portion of community that miss things like BRD where you spend a whole day in a dungeon
tribal wharf
i mean, i love to invite sp, in hopes they are really good, but often forced to invite meta or high ilvl or pocket pick for XYZ mob/pack
lusty grotto
the current system is fine
plush tendon
and others who honestly just need to get good, but dont want to or dont think they need to
merry sluice
Leveling up after completion would be less annoying if someone bricked you or ragequit domething
But it makes so little sense from a game design perspective to push a player over the line when they cannot do the content at a lower level
That’s just a degenerative experience
lusty grotto
the only bad thing right now is depletes giving less crests
plush tendon
Personally, I wouldnt mind more 5 man content outside of M+
I also wouldnt mind more mage tower type content
that shit was A+++ content
lusty grotto
i mean
tribal wharf
but, i mean like for rogue, for example its melee dps and DW, its THE priemer melee dps spec like how mage is
lusty grotto
there was this season
but NOBODY DID IT
aka DotI hardmode
with extremely good gear
heroic level drops
mythic level drops with immortal runs
plush tendon
aka DotI hardmode
.... I did it
for the cheat death trinket
but it wasnt hard.... it was a drag 😦
cerulean tusk
HC aint good gear tho, and 1 mythic item - nah skipz
lusty grotto
yes but outside of guild groups
plush tendon
I also dont think DoTI really was all the inspiring to do
lusty grotto
HC doti had a haste shield
plush tendon
it certaintly was no BRD
lusty grotto
no timer
plush tendon
it felt bland as a dungeon
lusty grotto
cheat trinket
tribal wharf
it doesnt have to blend other classes together like warlock does, but it also has 3 dps only specs, i think that classes that only have 3 dps specs to choose from nothing else, has to have a buff to dps , or utility in case of lock shaman
lusty grotto
easy pieces for catalyst
tribal wharf
and that rogue should be as good as mage basically, almost always
lusty grotto
go on party finder to look for a HC doti group, and you will most likely not find any
plush tendon
the rewards were good, but at a certain point I think more casual players want the place they are going to, to be epic
bronze locust
Was there any demand for hc doti?
lusty grotto
wdym epic augusto
plush tendon
you and 5 friends could spend a whole day in there
lusty grotto
sorry i just dont agree with nostalgia garbage
i played it then
i dont wanna play it again
tribal wharf
you can do it once a week, and if you can do it in 4 hours you get.......... whatever.....
lusty grotto
doti in itself is a big dungeon, and it was relevant this season as far as gearing goes
with extremely competitive loot
plush tendon
sorry i just dont agree with nostalgia garbage
I mean, I dont want to do it... its not content I enjoy
lusty grotto
nobody did it
plush tendon
but Im trying to think what other people outside of my bubble want
lusty grotto
again, outside of guild or push teams
bronze locust
I don't really remember being interested in much that dropped from doti, I probably felt like I needed to invest too much time in it while I could hop into m+ for gear and get rating.
But if doti hc did both, I would've gone for it, probably
merry sluice
hoenstly
at this point
im just fucking tired of seeing doti
shit was mid to begin with
lusty grotto
its not worth it now
merry sluice
after 2 seasons of it i just dont wanna do the same damnd ungeon anymore
plush tendon
im just fucking tired of seeing doti
shit was mid to begin with
Im doing it for rep
lusty grotto
but it was for the first 2 months of the season easily
plush tendon
so I can get my Tavian
merry sluice
i dont wanna hear chromie's screechy ass, nails on a chalkboard voice
plush tendon
merry sluice
I dont wanna see tyr's stupid fucking balls
I dont wanna sit through 5 minutes of rp
tribal wharf
no, what really scared me about that place
is the green orb above head
still no idea how that shit works
but if it fucked u p, i got mc and murder everyone
lusty grotto
you passed it
to a team member when it was about to fade
so you didnt get MCd
you passed it just by running over them
and then you got it back
tribal wharf
i would have to be extremely focused to do it right and without prodding or carry from team
plush tendon
merry sluice
p1 trade rigth away
p2 trade after the tornados start or get someone to combat drop the spawn. gl geting dps to do either right, they'd trade it to u instantly, meaning u had to trade it back before the consume went out, but they'd all run awya from you like stupid fucking ants
p3 ?????
lusty grotto
youre saying melding to yogi Augusto
merry sluice
p3 was jsut chaos in pugs
tribal wharf
the offset ground spike lines where a bit of pain to dodge too but thats skill issue from me
tribal wharf
same doti, well, just doti but
merry sluice
on the last boss?
plush tendon
I just remember failing a 30 Fall 3 times.... twice to healers forgetting to heal Chromie
merry sluice
the melee range on that boss is fucking insane
you can jsut stand max range and dodge them so easily
plush tendon
and once to failing the dps shield check
plush tendon
I swear hearing the healer in disc be like 'huh... I thought 75% health on Chromie would be enough'
merry sluice
my favourite was seing random lightforged blessing procs jsut heal chromie for millions of hp
plush tendon
low key, Hpal was dummy good on the last boss
merry sluice
i pressed sotr , shoot up in hps and pretend i actually did something special
plush tendon
every flash light on Chromie was a party lay on hands
merry sluice
tribal wharf
ai art STILL thinks paldin dw.....
ffs
i told it to make him casting flash of light
at least the paladin part is correct
what a gigachad
merry sluice
I see no shield so it has to be a weird retpaladin version
but...
he's not laying dead on the floor despite being the tankiest fucking DPS, with 0 kicks and no dispels despite paladin utility
so I dont think that's a real ret paladin
cerulean tusk
Nah, we dont
merry sluice
as a protadin enjoyer
I fucking despite ret paladins
idk why but they're some of the most unreliable people in keys i've ever seen
I know that's somewhat bias bc of its sheer player population
But holyfuck they made paladin players look worse than they already are lol
lusty grotto
nimchipadin in shambles
merry sluice
im sure ur an exception
But fuck the amount of times I've had a ret random BoP methis season (fucking why??), or lay on hands me fucking me out of my defensive rotation with forebearance is insane
lusty grotto
ive had cancelaura blessing of protection on SS/TC/Rev since tbc
lusty grotto
so if it happened i never noticed lol
merry sluice
its sitll 30 seconds of forebearance
which is an even bigger issue if i can react fast enough
tribal wharf
i dont give a shit if paladin is going to bop me, but just never ever do it to tank if u havent discussed it and made sure hes aware you may do this and they have a cancel aura macro for it.
merry sluice
it got to a point with ret paladins I had to start eveyr key with tell them not to use lay on hands on me, pls for the love of god lol
it was so common in RLP in particular on first boss. They'd see me drop 'low' when I'm intentionally gaming my free proc of goak + WoGing back to full hp
and proceed to lock me out of bubble/sw
tribal wharf
freedom and other paladin stuff is meh whatever but bop is a scary thing to have happen if your not prepared for it
lusty grotto
yeah i get what youre saying Cherry
as a prot paladin its bad
as a prot warrior its whatever with cancelauras
tribal wharf
it would be nice if there was an option to bubble tank or bubble as tank and you take, 99.99% less damage instead, so you can still be hit by monsters, and dont drop aggro
probabl about to be ripped to shreds by resident paladins
tribal wharf
cuz "thats not how threat works"
merry sluice
so
neat thing about bubble taunt
is its insanely unreliable for what it does though
the tiniest pebble
will break it with z-axis
merry sluice
im talking, accidentally walk on a fucking PEBBLE while fighting the big larva boy in underrot
tribal wharf
pwar giga taunt is best aoe taunt i figure
merry sluice
and now ur entire party is dead
lusty grotto
since 7.0.3
lusty grotto
thats how old that fucking thing is
tribal wharf
in wc3, you could run around for 45 seconds completely immune attacking shit and whatever
merry sluice
also much like how our spell reflect 'used' to not work sometimes
tribal wharf
that was awesome
merry sluice
sometimes pally tank consecration just...wouldnt do anything
those are all factors in why i also stopped maining it
lusty grotto
yogi saying it would be nice to bubble tank, the talent has been in game since legion lmao
holy christ
tribal wharf
well, without having to talent for it but sure, and also for the bop
merry sluice
paladin can also bop+taunt
tribal wharf
cuz thats the original arugment on this one
merry sluice
then just cancel before bop wears off
tribal wharf
receive bop as tank is fucking scary at times
merry sluice
that's what prot pally did on first boss DHT, rezan, bird boy algethar
lusty grotto
any outside bops put forbearance on Cherry's paladin
which means
they cannot LoH/Bubble/BoP themselves
merry sluice
30 seconds of no self bop
bubble
or spellward, all of which actually are part of our defensive rotation
its common to taunt, self bop
cancel bop physical attacks
from bosses at least
tribal wharf
im not sure what it was i never liked about prot paladin, like at least as trying to take it seriously and do well
i tried a bunch of monk in shadow lands
but i knew i was too bad at it
lusty grotto
yeah i guess, but since the nerfs for the S4 version its not as required
tribal wharf
if i had my big taunt ready was perfect timing for it, usually when i had paladins bop me when that cd was ready
lusty grotto
plus dwarf/cauterizing
merry sluice
OKAY TBF getting an evoker to be useful in a pug is a stretch
But its definitely not required.
tribal wharf
i am so happy that we have a multi target circle taunt button now, is beautiful
merry sluice
still a strong option to have though
its more annoying not having SW for the overlap on firstboss from a random forebearance
lusty grotto
OKAY TBF getting an evoker to be useful in a pug is a stretch
But its definitel...
its harder to get a bop for it tbh
anyway just parry 🙂
merry sluice
prot pally actually does get a lot more parry in tww
...
not that it matters when our best defensive was nerfed twice, and once earlier in df
and active mit kneecapped x.x
lusty grotto
im talking specifically prot warrior
merry sluice
i was hyped for the extra paryr ebfore they took a shotgun to our knees
tribal wharf
there are very oddly specific have to plan it out times that you can just like sit in BOP
but those are really rare
and extremely risky play
merry sluice
not really
just only self bop bosses
taunt before hand
and you have a few seconds to cancel it
technically even SWing can drop aggro, its jsut rare to see bc most trash ahve 'something' they can target u with
technically can happen in the first pull in RLP
Which also fucking sucks
lusty grotto
you hate all dungeons
merry sluice
also some weirdness could happen with the anomaly dog things in Doti if you spellwarded at the wrong time
lusty grotto
RLP was pretty chill this season
tribal wharf
you know what i dont hate?
tribal wharf
i dont hate vests
fallow nova
RLP was the one for me where I could never get pugs to stop butt-pulling everything
merry sluice
i've mixed feelings on RLP
I like how quick it can be
but it feels it can be a crapshoot with pugs sometimes.
Also god early tyran rlp and watching groups just eatshit randomly on the frist boss got exhausting lmfao
tribal wharf
i just dont like it, i'm starting to dislike timers in video games in general
lusty grotto
s1 RLP was way worse
fallow nova
Also that performance curve where you move into the 2nd floor casters obliterating people and pugs refuse to learn to kick
lusty grotto
s4 RLP was excellent
fallow nova
s4 seemed aight, I was just kind of burnt out on most of those dungeons already
I can only run the same things over and over so many times before I get sick of it. The adrenaline of press that ONE buttong at JUST the right time to do EXACTLY 0.001% better just doesn't carry me far enough after a certain point
lusty grotto
i guess you didnt enjoy M+ before SL S4
merry sluice
I still think neltharus should be deleted from the game
Straight up, just put a fucking void on the map that crashes the game and sends you back to valdrakken if you go anywhere near it
fallow nova
I wasn't present for 99.9% of BfA and didn't even bother getting back into M+ until the final part of SL
lusty grotto
and legion?
fallow nova
Nah I did Legion, but pretty casually with my guild at the time
fallow nova
We didn't do any real serious keys
tribal wharf
shrine
round pendant
Had to go afk and the conversation shifted 
lusty grotto
bfa keys were fun
tribal wharf
snake had some shitty mechanics in it
i had alot of fights with guild mates about snake dungeon
fallow nova
Don't get me wrong, I've spammed some dungeons plenty of times, I just find that pushing keys isn't enough gaming sauce to keep me engaged.
lusty grotto
you mean Sethraliss? reflecting nadoes on first boss was fun, the rest was eh
it was aight
fallow nova
If I'm running a ton of dungeons, it's because I'm already having fun with the game. Simply having the opportunity to run the same 8 instances dozens and dozens of times in adn of itself isn't intrinsicly motivating enough for me
tribal wharf
LIGHTNING BOSS INTENSIFIES
round pendant
Nimchip I only said not talking about prepatch because prepatch keys are significantly easier, I know timers didn't change
limpid ruin
Boring to tank, I didn’t like it in s4 because I was basically a bystander
Zero threats to the tank
tribal wharf
we had ALOT of groups go BIG boom on lightning dude
round pendant
My issue with +10s is that the keys can go to shit and I look for reasons why it's my fault and can't see many
so it makes me think I'm just too stupid
lusty grotto
round pendant
and then I get a good group and it's smooth as fuck and I'm like oh ok it's not my fault
I get that
fallow nova
Pugs gonna pugs, man
plush tendon
Boring to tank, I didn’t like it in s4 because I was basically a bystander
you didnt even play!
round pendant
But when I think back on a key and can't see myself doing anything majorly wrong
my brain doesn't just go "it's the pugs who are the problem"
it just makes me think I'm not cut out for this shit
lusty grotto
weird
round pendant
and I wanna go dps
fallow nova
If you're doing the same thing and a group is falling apart where previous ones went smooth, it's a fairly safe bet that it wasn't your fault.
lusty grotto
i always find something i could correct
round pendant
Yeah there's always small things
fallow nova
So long as you aren't jacking up positioning and getting your players killed where the last group compensated by moving, etc
round pendant
but key-bricking things?
lusty grotto
even if everything else goes well
i could improve my dps
or make my route more efficient
fallow nova
I think they're talking more about what causing total wipes, not just personal improvement
merry sluice
just do more dps forehead, cant wipe if you kill all the bosses with one million DPS WHOOOO
fallow nova
shaving 10 seconds off or doing 5% more DPS will not get your other players to kick dangerous casts or do mechanics, nor save you from them
lusty grotto
shaving 10 seconds off or doing 5% more DPS will not get your other players to k...
so?
round pendant
Fact is I only play with my friend who heals, we're the common denominator in these groups and sometimes we have brutally awful sessions
fallow nova
I think the concern here is more about success in key completion, not personal performance.
round pendant
Sometimes it's obvious, like people not kicking certain things when I've already kicked the last one
lusty grotto
im getting like 10 times dejavu
stop looking at others to blame
its either they do it, or they dont
thats it
you move on after that
you cannot waste time on could have beens or should have beens
limpid ruin
you didnt even play!
The good s4 in BFA you dweeb 
fallow nova
Well there ya go, folks. We literally never need to discuss pugs on this server again lol
round pendant
I'm just saying +10s are depressing cause you get bad players who fuck shit up but my brain just defaults to assuming I'm the reason it went to shit
which sometimes it is, to be fair
lusty grotto
yes i just mentioned that
fallow nova
Obviously there's always something to be working on personally
round pendant
but it's demoralising, wish I had more friends to play with
fallow nova
And there's definitely merit to the idea of NOT getting tied to a pug group's success
round pendant
so jealous of premades fr
fallow nova
Gotta detatch more when pugging if you don't want to get tilted by their performance
lusty grotto
I'm just saying +10s are depressing cause you get bad players who fuck shit up b...
readjust your brain
if you cant reliably identify the things you can control vs the things that you cant
lusty grotto
you will have a tougher time attacking the things you can improve upon
so stop defaulting to "its my fault"
its not
limpid ruin
<a:ragey:1198213371154153484>
fallow nova
At least if it's a mental thing, it's 100% under your control
tribal wharf
i know it doesnt apply to wow, but i like how in crisis core certain spells have a "100% power gauge" and if you deal enough damage or cc them, it reduces the damage the spell does, or negates it
lusty grotto
and that can vary between person to person but
fallow nova
Gotta work on that Warrior mindset
lusty grotto
its doable
also very important to not mix in ego into this
tank ego is fucking bullshit and nobody should make decisions based on it
tribal wharf
its alot like the doti fight were talking about the one at end of first half of dungeon
lusty grotto
same with personal ego
tribal wharf
cuz you guys were talking about kicking spells
fallow nova
There's a lot of talk that goes into how much tanks carry right now, but the fact is that at a certain level, we cannot just solo the dungeon. Everyone has to do their part and unless you've all agreed that you're in charge of literally everyone's actions, pugs doing stupid pug things is not your fault
round pendant
Some rogue spent a whole key bitching at my pulls because he stepped in a frontal and died
lusty grotto
fuck em
round pendant
and I'm like, yeah I could have probably accomodated him better but also he did shit damage and didn't kick anything?
fallow nova
That's how you know you can disregard their bitching.
lusty grotto
ive mentioned this one before and im pretty sure thats been to you but learn to mental mute group chat
everything outside of your play is noise
just disregard
round pendant
I'm generally fine with it but I just don't have the mental to push +10s for portals beyond getting enough points for 2500 chieve
bro you remember s1
lusty grotto
no need to ignore ingame
round pendant
I got giga tilted by some hunter shittalking my route on CoS
lusty grotto
right
round pendant
but I don't like the idea that I'm just gonna ignore peoples criticism because it makes me feel bad
lusty grotto
you arent ignoring it
youre just not giving it so much weight
its a game
and what they put in are virtual words
at the end of the day, who cares
round pendant
I think I need to find like at least 1 solid dps player to consistently play with
lmao
fallow nova
but I don't like the idea that I'm just gonna ignore peoples criticism because i...
Disregarding =/= ignoring.
You have to start with the understanding that X% of randos you play with are either idiots, assholes or a mix of both.
To varying degrees.
lusty grotto
do you ever wonder how world first players and streamers go about their day, even when being most friendly towards chat?
easy, they filter out what's good and/or bad and they dont let them get to them
and they have to deal with twitch chat
fallow nova
Gotta use Ignore Pain on your psyche 😛
tribal wharf
hostile and weird npcs exists irl
fallow nova
Aye
tribal wharf
as well as rng side quests
round pendant
Yeah I mean I'm probably making it sound like it affects me more than it does
fallow nova
Treating life like an RPG is the ultimate 4D mental chess move.
Because is it roleplaying if you're just.. performing your actual role??
merry sluice
Half of you noobs haven't even finished your TRP3 profile for your IRL Character
noone's gonna rp with you without a bio
smh
fallow nova
lolz
round pendant
After every m+ season I reflect back on it and mainly remember the negative parts
negativity bias innit
tribal wharf
the only role i want to play in a video game, is an alpha male bad ass with weapons killing things
lusty grotto
do you have a therapist?
round pendant
lmao
round pendant
it's not that bad brother
lusty grotto
seriously
fallow nova
I don't get the vibe that stuff IRL is impacted for Yam the way +10 keys are
lusty grotto
there's no ruler for good or bad
therapists are cool
there's no shame in going to one
round pendant
I'm not opposed to therapy I just don't think this is a result of some complex or anything
lusty grotto
and its not reserved for lunatics
round pendant
I'm just the kind of person that assumes I can improve any given situation
fallow nova
I think everyone should at least sit down and talk to one once. There's a lot of perspective to be gained for most folks. But the idea that everyone should be in therapy is, I believe, largely fallaceous.
lusty grotto
thats a problem see
because you cannot improve in any given situation
thats a fact
fallow nova
Where's that old Piccard quote
lusty grotto
look for a therapist, seriously
im not trying to diss you
i guarantee that at the very least they will help idenfity something that you def can improve upon
round pendant
I wouldn't be able to get therapy and I can't afford private