the only totem trinket in the whole expansion was a tank trinket
#protection
median tulip
median tulip
unkempt hazel
ngl, I'd love that
median tulip
TBH Shaman needs a complete ground-up rework
median tulip
Also it's kinda darkly hilarious how they spent years taking Enhancement away from it's "buff other people" roots, and then put Augvoker into the game
median tulip
https://tenor.com/view/gwent-gwentcard-nilfgaard-imperial-golem-gif-13939470
All those nice shiny new elemental models that were put in for DF... and Shaman are still summoning 2004 models
mellow bridge
next week shaman rework
plush tendon
hopefully
Shaman is such a cool class with really cool visuals
its a shame its become sort of a afterthought by blizz
plush tendon
Enhancement Ive heard is pretty fun
unkempt hazel
personally not a fan
median tulip
The whole "manually spreading a debuff" mechanic is really fucking old school
median tulip
and the hard target cap really isn't helpful in this day and age
unkempt hazel
lava lash bs
median tulip
Lashing Flames, yeah
unkempt hazel
like
they got the right idea with flame shock spread
then they ruin it with that thing 
what I dislike bout enh is mainly weird button bloat
specifically that half the buttons feel like nothing buttons
I miss those fat stormstrikes man
lusty grotto
lusty grotto
dusky canopy
oblique garnet
The whole "manually spreading a debuff" mechanic is really fucking old school
cant even do complicated rotations
unkempt hazel
fickle tundra
heyo could anyone explain to me how is it that 5400 haste is the turning point between heavy repercussions and into the fray?
I 100% see it at the experience level but I wish to understand the underlying logic on it.
my particular situation is that I switched to gholaks and went from 54xx to 52xx haste.
dusky canopy
At roughly 5400 haste you can still maintain 100% shield block with ITF talented
Haste has a lot more value tied to it than just shield block so you always prefer ITF if you have the haste for it
lusty grotto
its because at that point ITF starts to become valuable
since its a multiplicative talent
the 5400 mark also assumes 5 stacks of ITF
it doesnt necessarily mean you will hit 100% uptime with SB
more often than not, you wont
and will have gaps
the higher your haste stat goes up, the more value ITF has since its not diminished as a percent
so 5400 rating is the starting point to that
anything below it, is not worth it as the gains provided with ITF will be smaller
and can probably get bigger gains by just haste rating since its largely undiminished at anything below it
plain ole rating i mean
dusky canopy
Quick math
fickle tundra
and will have gaps
I am realizing this now. Im watching some nome m+ runs, SB drops here and there for him.
lusty grotto
yes thats completely normal
the higher your haste goes, the more that might disappear
with ITF
fickle tundra
I had figured it was something like WW and cleave for Fury in the sense of always having it up (stacks in the case WW) to effectively cleave
lusty grotto
i just swapped back to ITF, but only after getting 6k rating just because of gaps
if youre an extremely good player, you can play through gaps
as defensively, the only thing that matters is effective uptime i.e. when youre getting hit by blockable attacks
and offensively, having it up for Avatar + Demo windows for some big ass outburst SS crits
fickle tundra
i just swapped back to ITF, but only after getting 6k rating just because of gap...
oh wait, so Heavy Repercussions is not "training wheels" exactly?
Im starting on prot and immediatly went to 5400+ haste to avoid Heavy Repercussions because I thought it was gonna gimp my learning process.
lusty grotto
its not training wheels no
you need HR under that point
or else you will have huge ass gaps and you will struggle with SB uptime
i played HR when i bought my rings
there's no training wheels involved, ive played prot since mid vanilla
its not a shaming talent
its whats needed
(at less than 5400 rating)
dusky canopy
You can just play HR always if it’s more comfortable, it’s not going to make a massive difference
lusty grotto
thats kind of true
dusky canopy
Swapping to ITF is just min maxing
lusty grotto
gcd hastes do make a difference but depending on the type of player they might not notice
and besides gcd haste gets capped at certain point anyway
dusky canopy
ITF doesn’t magically make anything easier you have to be able to utilize the benefit of it
lusty grotto
dusky canopy
If HR lets you time a 10 because you keep shield block up better
Then just do that
No stress
Ez game
lusty grotto
this is true
merry sluice
TBH
I just dont like itf bc my monkey brain hates the jumping up and down in haste values, even if its only a couple % points
it just 'feels' off to me idk why
lusty grotto
i did my first 16, weeks ago with HR
i just wouldnt have been able to without it at my haste rating at that point
dusky canopy
Yugge
crystal iris
when you have enough haste though playing HR just feels wierd like youre capping out
fickle tundra
tyvm for the info.
So, if I'm understanting correctly: if I decide to play HR till get I comfortable with my mitigation and then think of swapping ITF, it wouldnt give me bad prot habits in the meantime?
dusky canopy
No
lusty grotto
just watch your SB timer, as you should be doing with both talents
fickle tundra
gotcha, I've even setup a TTS for when SB is 4s left
crystal iris
having so much trouble timing keys this week
as prot or arms
ive got almost everything on 13s now with some 14s so its just working my ass off for 3 IO at a time
dusky canopy
I’m chilling this season stopped wasting my time in ques like 6 weeks ago lol
crystal iris
tanks love sanguine
crystal iris
I’m chilling this season stopped wasting my time in ques like 6 weeks ago lol
chillin how
also this is still crazy to me
I get it week one but how are they still all running rageheart
violet ginkgo
I get it week one but how are they still all running rageheart
Because majority of player doesn't know this discord exist.
Plus they already hasty on buying rageheart, might as well use it right? rather than let it go waste
blazing condor
Ppl saw rageheart being used at top levels last patch
Figured it might as well be used still
dusky canopy
chillin how
Not trying to stay in the 1% this season
Just been filling vault and that’s it
dusky canopy
tanks love sanguine
I’d bet each of those groups have tanks in que just none are VDH
crystal iris
Ppl saw rageheart being used at top levels last patch
I mean, those arent just people its the top 50 players
on paper Treemouths works better but idk maybe they know something we dont at 3600 IO
plus it has damage component
lusty grotto
they dont
plush tendon
Rageheart isnt bad; there are better trinkets sure, but you can do the top content with rageheart with little issue
plush tendon
at the end of day; prefromance of play is more important then gear
crystal iris
why might as well, its like week 6 if you have treemouth and rageheart you can freely pick
lusty grotto
because at this point it doesnt matter
the season is over for them
its not for you cause youre doing 13s
crystal iris
ya lets get out all the echo chamber answers out early
lusty grotto
why are you here then
pallid quiver
DPS, survival scaling, and control are generally the things limiting tank performance, anyhow, if anything at all
crystal iris
performance better than gear, doesnt matter for most players, what we missing
grim pilot
also this is still crazy to me
This site is bugged iirc
lusty grotto
or the chinese VDHs
grim pilot
It doesnt account for actual top x
merry sluice
dorki's takes make me cry inside
pallid quiver
The trinkets really are close enough that it's not gonna be the difference as compared to your DPS not getting murdered by an undogeable or packs not avle to be pulled big enough
lusty grotto
dorki's takes make me cry inside
why he was pro dreadplates early on
he was 100% correct
grim pilot
Last time I checked something it took some 2.9k into account
pallid quiver
wild
Imagine asking people things
crystal iris
look im not saying rageheart is better than treemouths, im just trying to understand why the higher IO players run it
over treemouths
grim pilot
Dam I guess no?
merry sluice
I'm not against dreadplates
grim pilot
More dam
crystal iris
hell they even run granyths over treemouth apparently
lusty grotto
why are you asking if youre so convinced were providing "echo chamber" answers
crystal iris
well because every now and they once we get those out of the way you we come up with a real answer
pallid quiver
More dam
Iirc dreadplates is more damage than rageheart in aoe scenarios. I'd also wager if he's running OCE, it's for his team
lusty grotto
ok, well keep waiting
grim pilot
Iirc dreadplates is more damage than rageheart in aoe scenarios. I'd also wager ...
No I mean rageheart vs treemouth
crystal iris
Iirc dreadplates is more damage than rageheart in aoe scenarios. I'd also wager ...
ya but fyraaks is more defensive than dreadplates
crystal iris
I mean last season it was the tank trinket
merry sluice
it was the tank trinket
this season we have tank trinkets plural
they're just in the mindset to reuse it bc comfort picks go brr
crystal iris
whats your point?
lusty grotto
how is that fucking hard to comprehend
merry sluice
why change something that worked before and still works now
merry sluice
but that doesnt mean u Have to use it
lusty grotto
ok
when rageheart exists
and treemouth doesnt
which one will be more valuable
if ONE OF THEM DOESNT EXIST
merry sluice
we're obviously missing the real op tank trinket guys
crystal iris
So its back to the original question then. If both exist, and treemouth SHOULD be better, why arent they running it
its not like some are running it
crystal iris
its like, not a single one of the top 50
plush tendon
you are thinking way too hard my dude
merry sluice
lingering spore pods my beloved
lusty grotto
insta blocked , i cant anymore
crystal iris
yes, so im wondering which strenths rageheart has to make it top pick over others
plush tendon
its not a clear cut 'this is BiS awlays'
crystal iris
its not that hard
pallid quiver
You can, like, just ask if you want to know.
A non-zero amount of the players you're hyping up are, like, in this Discord. They're not superior beings set apart in a different plan, the ubermensch who cannot be touched by mere commoners
plush tendon
it gives a nice shield and does some damage
and its a 1:30 CD
which is really nice
crystal iris
also if it was personal preference, then surely some players would use it, but literally none are
otherwise i wouldnt ask
merry sluice
rageheart worked before
and it works now.
It had nerfs, but it works largely the same.
No need to change out something that worked for them before.
You won't get a specific answering on their personal reasons without asking directly, as noone here is psychic
crystal iris
if you had like 30 running rageheart maybe 15 prefer splinter
I like how he says "insta blocked" after arguing for half an hour
plush tendon
bro.... people are using all the trinkets
you got tanks going in with Aug and Guzzie
to deal with last boss Bracken
crystal iris
bro.... people are using all the trinkets
I mean in the top 50
merry sluice
people in here can only give generic echo-chamber-sounding answers since we're not the "top 50 players using rageheart"
crystal iris
I mean there are some damn good players in here
pushing 16s and 18s
Nim just sits in here 24/7 turning new players off of prot lol
plush tendon
tbh... you just sound super pigheaded at this point
crystal iris
guess im not allowed to be curious
plush tendon
there are lots of good trinkets, lots of loadouts people using for different dungeons at the highest level
try it yourself, see what works, and thats it
pallid quiver
You could rekindle it if you wanted
crystal iris
Never leavin my pc again
like nim 🙂
pallid quiver
Don't think it'd be that hard to do so
crystal iris
try it yourself, see what works, and thats it
ya I ran it last season on pally and liked it
tribal wharf
i would have thought the malding would have slowed after i left for like a month or so
crystal iris
maybe ill try it see how it feels. I do like the damage component to it
plush tendon
Ive preferred rageheart on my dh over dreadplate for my push keys
cause of the lower CD
tribal wharf
then again, our resource, rage
crystal iris
and it helps for gathering pulls over splinter
crystal iris
depends on the pull
plush tendon
I just havnt needed the extra d from splinter
crystal iris
but when ive got a mongo DPS or dummy healer and i need to spend more rage on getting aggro ill occasionlly get hit hard
grim pilot
Only pull thats ass to gather is ruby
Get disrupting shout
Assign 1-2 kicks
Thats about it
crystal iris
two pulls I have trouble with are in AV. the 4 flowers before you drop down are far away and its hard not to turn around to see them to taunt
also if you pull them and jump down sometimes they one shot DPS before snapping
pallid quiver
Only pull thats ass to gather is ruby
Just tell your dps to sacrifice themselves for the cause and drag them to the entrance, ez
Disclaimer: This will not work out, but it'd be funny and give grieftorch resets
crystal iris
wym 2 trees?
grim pilot
Take 2nd tree and like 6-7 flowers with it
crystal iris
but ill try to pull 2 and 3 together
grim pilot
Thats also fine I guess for that key level
crystal iris
I find pulling 1 and 2 together sketchy
grim pilot
Its not that sketchy
lusty grotto
myrt stop it, youre echo chambering
crystal iris
hes back
grim pilot
U assign 1 kick on the tree
lusty grotto
im always here you doofus
crystal iris
can you just block me again
grim pilot
Why are u guys fighting over pointless shit
lusty grotto
you are already blocked, youre a massive idiot
if youre so for calling echo chamber answers, how come you cant do a simple AV route?
crystal iris
so glad youre here to contribute
lusty grotto
well you see
crystal iris
guess tank class discords arent a great place to come to talk about tank routes
crystal iris
why dont you go run your weekly 10 and go play your meta DPS and leave us alone
lusty grotto
ive actually helped your routing before but fuck me right?
fucking unhinged
because you dont get the answer you want
crystal iris
so how you do you pull that second tree without the patrolling dragon getting in the way? you run around it and tank the pull on the second tree?
torn gulch
they don't pull the dragons
they just walk
throught them
you loss the second tree and the flowers
crystal iris
so id pull the tree with taunt and like TC the lashers then LOS?
torn gulch
yes there is a los spot where your team waits
you go and pull stuff and you go to the los spot and way for them to come
crystal iris
nice
crystal iris
to see what i mean?
sure
crystal iris
Its not that sketchy
Im actually remembering now someone asking about this pull in here and getting the answer : thats a VDH pull youre a prot warrr dont do that hahaha
torn gulch
i never pull 1+2 as a warrior
AV is free enough that you don't take risks
like that
grim pilot
Its not risky
mellow bridge
you def can in a coordinated group
torn gulch
i'm pugging most of the time so it is risky you can do it in coordinated groups
grim pilot
Im always pugging
Its definitely smoother on vdh
But its fine on pwar
Just spec into disrupt and assign kick on tree
crystal iris
ya im learning that some risks arent worth taking in pugs
like the "easy" first pull in Nelth haha
grim pilot
I mean your call if you want to push you have to slowly try new stuff as it’ll become kinda mandatory the higher u go
Try it out in +9 to see how the grouping goes
crystal iris
It usually comes down to if I can't solo or almost solo the stops then its almost not worth it
grim pilot
Solo stopping is a thing in 9’s
crystal iris
Top players running rageheart for the higher ilvl
I buy it
torn gulch
sure
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmSpJtyQGuI
I am gonna use @merry pond 's video and the timestamp is between 2:30 and 3
crystal iris
like I ran it in pugs last week tried maybe 6-7 keys and we pulled it off in 2 maybe 3 of those tries
torn gulch
on how to do that pull
crystal iris
on how to do that pull
ok ya thats usually how I do it
crystal iris
ya but he also missed 2 and had to pull them alone
those 2 are the annoying ones to get when youre already got like 6 of them on you
and the team is LOS
and they start casting im like shit gotta go back and interrupt
wait nvm he got the other tree as well
torn gulch
yes the second tree has travel distance to cover as they are at the top of the stairs
you can skip an entire ring
crystal iris
invis?
torn gulch
jump
crystal iris
i've skipped half a ring with jump but never entire one
torn gulch
you can go in on the first ring and then jump on second ring with parasol or levitate or leap if you place it right
grim pilot
No need to go on the first ring
Jump where the book is
And leap
Its last second and scary every time
torn gulch
yes with leap or parasol
grim pilot
But I never failed it
torn gulch
parasol is more safe
grim pilot
Ig
torn gulch
there is a degree of flexibility on those 2 rings
on what you pull
on fort you'll want to avoid the shard elementals because they truck
the shard elementals are probably my least favorite as a tank
in AV
lusty grotto
which?
grim pilot
Do they hit hard
torn gulch
the frontal ones
grim pilot
Ah ye crystal furys obv will hurt ye but there are none
crystal iris
nah those dont hurt at all
grim pilot
There are 2 pulls
crystal iris
I just eat the shards
grim pilot
In whole key
crystal iris
lol
torn gulch
yes you do but when your group fails and you get 7 stacks kekw
lusty grotto
not quite
crystal iris
also love the priest gripping over the first book
grim pilot
Or has tattman skipped that too
crystal iris
in his vid he doesnt pull the 4
lusty grotto
crystal iris
grim pilot
And yell on my dps if they do extendo patronum on my stacks
crystal iris
looks like this is what Tattman ran
torn gulch
yes
crystal iris
U can do that?
grim pilot
Im on phone
torn gulch
stamp 9 min on his video
crystal iris
8:36
torn gulch
tldr
grim pilot
Was just curious
torn gulch
you can
crystal iris
well he pulls to the side, the group takes book, then priest grips him over the gap
torn gulch
what else works to go over that gap while in combat weyrnstone?
lusty grotto
crystal iris
I dont think you can leap it
lusty grotto
AV is fucking easy
crystal iris
like 99.9% sure
torn gulch
you'll have to be a night elf warr or die to to the breaker skip immediately after third boss right?
lusty grotto
yup
i just die
but
the first breaker can be skipped also
the very first one
with someone else melding
lusty grotto
ah yes
lusty grotto
just find out whos NE, and tell them to pull and skip it
torn gulch
on high fort you have to skip as many as you can
grim pilot
In high keys sometimes people skip 2
torn gulch
that's who first one after third boss is always skipped
grim pilot
I skipped 2 in a key on my mage
crystal iris
theres no way to reduce the damage they do right? like it's not one of those things where if another DPS stand in the line of charge it reduces damage?
grim pilot
First and last breaker
torn gulch
First and last breaker
by last you mean the one on the pull before double breakers?
lusty grotto
no, i think myrt is talking about the 2 pulls we mentioned
very first one
and the doubles
torn gulch
i'm playing the next 3 resets and that's about it this season
crystal iris
First and last breaker
how do you skip the first?
torn gulch
for m+
torn gulch
how do you skip the first?
pull to the side and die or meld if you are a nelf or get a nelf to pull meld
or a mage to pull invis or a rogue to pull vanish
i think that's about it?
crystal iris
theres enough room?
torn gulch
yes you pull on the left wall
or whoever pulls
then the group hugs right wall
there is enough space if done properly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn9nlcd_Q-8
timestamp 21:20
crystal iris
goddamn thats a big pull
torn gulch
i mean they are one of the best players in the world
torn gulch
ultra coordinated groups where every cc every kick is accounted
grim pilot
by last you mean the one on the pull before double breakers?
Yes
Since double breakers are insta skip
In any semi relevant key
So I thought it goes without saying
That there are realistically 3 breakers u could play
And on my mage we only played one, the 2nd breaker
torn gulch
isn't that breaker very akward to skip because he's in the room linked with another 2 ? Do you just walk along the wall and pull in the other side of the room?
grim pilot
Iirc its mind soothe + cage + sleepwalk on smallies
But cant recall exactly
I can just check the log if I ever need clarification
U defo hug the wall to the right
Think its cage the frog on the right?
torn gulch
fair enough
oblique garnet
ultra coordinated groups where every cc every kick is accounted
Its not exactly rocket science
Its quite simple
Just tons of repetition and learning
If you do something for 8 hours a day repeatedly you are kinda going to get good as byproduct
zealous goblet
If you do something for 8 hours a day repeatedly you are kinda going to get good...
if thats true then why cant i speak no good
oblique garnet
if thats true then why cant i speak no good
Wdym
plush path
bromach is better righ bc i only have 4.6k haste
oblique garnet
Are you mute?
zealous goblet
no i just stutter like porky pig
lusty grotto
bromach is better, period
oblique garnet
no i just stutter like porky pig
Idk lack of confidence?
plush path
bromach is better, period
ty, icyveins showed bromach but wowhead showed tuskarr for m+ bis
zealous goblet
smh
oblique garnet
Is it just certain words or
lusty grotto
ty, icyveins showed bromach but wowhead showed tuskarr for m+ bis
probably because the m+ list adjusts for only M+ gear
zealous goblet
nah im just fuckin round its only when i go like 28 hours without sleep like a moron lmao
oblique garnet
plush path
probably because the m+ list adjusts for only M+ gear
yea that is probably true but both sites i had m+ only enabled and showed different
lusty grotto
yes but youre not getting what im saying
look at the rings
those are not our bullion rings
so it already has all the haste needed with the M+ rings
thats not a "should strictly follow" list
its just whats good if you ONLY gear with M+ which isnt true for this season cause bullions exist
its what simmed best dropped by M+ only
just like any BiS list, its not really a list to blindly follow
only classic bis lists are like that
or were
violet ginkgo
Well Nim... All I have to wait now is the vault for M+ to pop mythic boot from nelth/waist from bracken, plus any myth gloves and pants.
violet ginkgo
only 3 ilvl diff is it that much though?
pulsar wedge
thats what people dont understand about those lists
if you wanna know what people are using use the 2 websites archon.gg and/or mythicstats.com
lusty grotto
strong forum
Well, yes
But those are also just popularity trackers
Which isn't always inherently the correct thing
Exceedingly likely this season since you can get every relevant item of the expansion
Since like 12 of 16 items are essentially hardlocked
The only variable slots are cloak belt bracers boots and trinkets (to a certain extend)
lusty grotto
grim pilot
I think theyre not doing more dam even if youre playing last resort soulmonger
assuming equal skill level
lusty grotto
LOL
south zealot
idk rare fucking pipes
south zealot
i think if you play it very well its like equal
south zealot
but chaos brand is just more relevant for basically every comp
grim pilot
0 dam build
south zealot
yeah rare pipes with a low damage build and playing cheat
south zealot
not even 500k log u suck
grim pilot
this is what I played
grim pilot
I dont have
south zealot
holy its so much damage
grim pilot
I bought ashes gt and claw
grim pilot
ye but im doing 9s
south zealot
but if you can keep it synced its really really good
grim pilot
Im not gonna use it for dr
south zealot
do some 20s noob
south zealot
grim pilot
youre piss low
my gt did 2% dam
in this key
so all totem + something and if I dont die because im doing stupid shit
can smash extra 100k
south zealot
man im tilted i open reddit for a second and ppl are saying vdh is going to be “more meta” in s1 because of the affixes
these stupid ass pisslo wow players are so stupid
south zealot
it doesnt even make sende
pallid quiver
Nah, they'll be more meta because they'll get another rework a week into the xpac
south zealot
they responded to someone saying raging and bolstering being in the pool means vdh will be meta
how does that make any sense
grim pilot
it doesnt
south zealot
raging literally negates cc
lusty grotto
yeah well
south zealot
in theory it makes vdh less meta
lusty grotto
have they not taken the note that s3 tier is gone?
south zealot
doesnt matter much with an evoker in the group but still
crystal iris
Nok is rough this week with sanguini
its already rough enough grouping up the pull
nothing moves
plush tendon
This aint the week to do keys
next 3 weeks though... clear the schedules if you trying to make a push
crystal iris
ya gonna be nice to have a few good weeks
I just enjoy playing tho so ill keep trying
rigid hull
strong forum
Nah
lusty grotto
yeah nope
grim pilot
u also need rag doll
grim pilot
and good rng
lusty grotto
and then agro one of the little eles
pallid quiver
just combat bug, ez
strong forum
Can't hop on dragon if in combat or?
lusty grotto
you cant
hasnt happened to me but people have complained in groups ive been in
when they rage release cause they are special
pallid quiver
You're stuck in combat, so you just need to find a way to clip up to the top, then
ez
lusty grotto
merry sluice
SO simple
why didn twe think of that
wait, i got a better one
Simply kill the mobs, and don't die!!
DPS HATE THIS ONE EASY TRICK
zealous goblet
so out of curiosity
is there anywhere to check how much damage a certain amount of strength is giving me?
like 300 strength, for example
strong forum
Check how much str you have
Then calculate how much % those 300 are of your total str
Then that's kind of a ballpark
zealous goblet
i forgot to reenchant my gear for like 2 weeks and i want to know how hard to cave my own skull in
vault has been very nice to me
strong forum
zealous goblet
it's not my fault
i am a weak man
the dopamine of getting better gear overrode any intellect i might've had
pallid quiver
I remember back when people would inspect you, then attempt to murder you in real life if they saw you were missing enchants smh
strong forum
Sir intellect is for pink classes
zealous goblet
well str is for us but i have flabby fuckin' arms irl don't i
pallid quiver
i'll have you know we have some int from waking stats
we just throw it in the bin
zealous goblet
smh
i'm used to being heavily scrutinized so maybe it's the community's fault for not being mean to me more
i am a classic andy
pallid quiver
People just find different metrics to gatekeep by, as if it's some kind of progression or something that makes them better at analyzing people or something
I think it's mostly IO atm
So they assume if you have IO, you know what do
which means you obviously have bis enchants, even if that means zero enchants
strong forum
i am a classic andy
It's so funny how insanely more toxic classic andies are
Over the most irrelevant things
pallid quiver
It really is; it's why I still haven't levelled to cap yet in Cata Classic
strong forum
Bosses die in 40seconds in classic but if you don't have every single world buff correctly and 1 wrong item you get shunned
pallid quiver
i've got like a year, anyway, before panda comes out
strong forum
Like 
strong forum
The parse gatekeeping in classic is apparently a huge issue
lusty grotto
friend 1 has blue/purple parses
doesnt get invited
friend 2 has orange/pink parses
doesnt get invited cause he might be "too much"
like what the fuck
pallid quiver
I think it's probably because it attracts a whole bunch of ego parsers and washed up gamer dads who failed their dreams or something
strong forum
Dunno
lusty grotto
mostly washed up boomers
strong forum
But the fact that wcl had to implement multiple expensive ways to prevent people to scrape logs
lusty grotto
im a washed up boomer
strong forum
For their ToS violating addons
And have been brought to release their own parse tooltip addon for classic
To stop people from scraping logs
strong forum
Yeah that's why the addon was released
pallid quiver
I didn't even know that addon existed
strong forum
Cuz people violated ToS repeatedly and essentially DDoSed wcl by that
To get a tooltip addon which automatically displays the players average parse like rio score
pallid quiver
I personally wouldn't find enjoyment in speedruns of raids. I've done speedruns of other games in my spare time, some that take even longer than speedrunning raids,
but it just don't feel good to me
My condolences to the souls who got swept up in that trend
strong forum
I enjoy parse hunting
strong forum
I never touched classic
pallid quiver
Parsing's the only fun in raid, but I also usually cba'd to get to cap ilvl in a given season, so
lusty grotto
the only reason i did it is cause i wanted to speedrun cause i had ALREADY DONE THAT SHIT IN OG VANILLA
and because shadowlands was garbage
pallid quiver
So my fun is normally seeing how close I can get to the funny high numbers while shy like 10 ilvl and maybe trinkets
lusty grotto
as soon as i was done with classic i went hard in xiv
thats still good luerce
besides ilvl % is usually a bigger indicator that you're good
lusty grotto
🤔
strong forum
Yup
pallid quiver
It's usually only a rough trend, and gets weirder the higher up you go
lusty grotto
not at ilvl cap i mean
strong forum
Cuz im so high that I'm competing with so few parses
pallid quiver
And sometimes ilvl% is hugely thrown out of whack by someone having, say, Anvil while you've got some dirt from the rocks outside that give you 50 damage on every other revenge
Or their ilvl beng bumped by weps or not
But if there's a non-zero amount of parses, you can generally spitball you're doing something right if your ilvl% is at like 75% or something where there's hundreds/thousands of parses for that ilvl range or something
strong forum
pallid quiver
This one's my favorite bit for Heroic Echo and why I like to look at my parses. I think I died in that one, too, because that pug was scuffed
onyx annulet was too stronk smh
strong forum
1/1
old flame
So, I'm thinking about my next bullion buy, not sure what to grab, I think I'm set on trinkets? Have heroic treemouth, awakened anvil and I just got myth dread plates last night. Got both the special rings and wep and a myth shield...
Any suggestions?
lusty grotto
at this point whatever you think you need
can even grab a gnarlroot shield
if you need a haste shield
manic torch, all totems are good picks
idk tbh
those are good picks
anything past the trinkets is entirely up to you
old flame
Treemouth for tyr shenanigans?
lusty grotto
mmm not really
more like when you need the defensive option
not a lot of bosses hurt
old flame
Run dread as an offensive. Got it
lusty grotto
for now, until you start pushing high
and you feel you need a huge defensive option
old flame
I probably won't get higher than 10s
But that's also subjective based on comp and healers etc
lusty grotto
dreadplates
lusty grotto
crystal iris
Any suggestions?
Fyraaks great too
fringe oyster
recommendations for bullion trinkets? I raid but i m pushing for KSM as well
lusty grotto
recommendations for bullion trinkets? I raid but i m pushing for KSM as well
dreadplates, all totem, anvil
lusty grotto
your 2nd and 3rd best passives would be signet -> augury if youre only looking for passives
cerulean tusk
Aug do be my fav passive trinky, when it pops off it pops 
sick sentinel
ppl really be having fun playing
people don't like dealing with the Latin American servers
I can be playing Prot War in arena and if I see someone from Quel'Thalas I'm getting free kills
simple as
merry sluice
lmfao the pug chaos continues
go into a simple aa
Priest just barrels in ahead of me on, running head first into bugs and plants and he dies
🤷♀️
high aspen
people don't like dealing with the Latin American servers
i got called a gringo by a healer on the 3rd boss of halls of infusion because i died after not receiving a heal for 14 seconds
(fury, no defensives up)
on a 10 tyrannical
my fault i guess
sick sentinel
i got called a gringo by a healer on the 3rd boss of halls of infusion because i...
welcom to latam servers
lusty grotto
way to generalize guys!
sick sentinel
way to generalize guys!
remember how Blizz had to ban an addon that auto-declined invites from latam servers due to how shit the playerbase is to deal with?
lusty grotto
no, cause im not a racist fuck
i group with them all the time and they perform exceptionally in high keys
lusty grotto
how ridiculous do you have to be to pile all of them up on a box and filter them out
i blacklisted some guy the other day due to that, guy was talking mad shit to some rag or quelthalas dude that was doing well and while he made 1 or 2 mistakes, pulled their weight way more than the same guy talking shit
fuck that 1 guy in particular
pallid quiver
The only location based profiling I engage in is against OCE, and that's because I don't wanna play in 200 ping; feels bad
lusty grotto
right
pallid quiver
It's a shame, because there's a lot of cool and good OCE players around
lusty grotto
OCE players tend to be very chill
but the ping of their instances is kind of a bummer
merry sluice
God there was this one guy in an old guild of mine who'd straight up leave keys if a rag or az joined
For many reaosns i am no longer in said guild
high aspen
way to generalize guys!
my experiences are 50/50 usually, they are either average and do fine, or average and are extreme assholes
idc playing with them though
they get the job done usually
lusty grotto
just like any server
merry sluice
i mean...could that not be said about most servers
you're just more likely to see 'assholes' from the really big servers
bc ur gonna see more peopel from said server
lusty grotto
agreed
thats why people also generalize A52 and illidan players
which is equally wrong
pallid quiver
ha ha, that's me, i'm both an a52 and illidan player
i was originally illidan until i swapped to a52
high aspen
im a52, how do people generalize us
high aspen
aint ever seen it b4
lusty grotto
for a guild mid s3
people say a52 are assholes just like illidan players
pretty much
stormrage is also a big one
the people i raid with are from there, and they are good peeps
well the weekend raid group
anyway im getting the fuck out of illidan as soon as prepatch hits and rejoining my guild back in my home server
since cross realm guilds are gonna be a thing hopefully in prepatch and not when the exp fully launches
high aspen
does illidan have a big asia popularity, i see alot of people use there big cds like meta with some chinese text in /yell tied with it in a macro
lusty grotto
back to low pop Arthas for me 😄
illidan does have a big chinese community yes
and other asian countries
pallid quiver
A52 has a few as well, iirc
and every time I see a chinese player, I always remember that WoW's text parser doesn't support JP, but supports Chinese, and it feels very awkward to me
sick sentinel
does illidan have a big asia popularity, i see alot of people use there big cds ...
iirc that's the Asmongold server
lusty grotto
illidan has a huge alliance presence
civic kiln
Hey guys, before I ask a question about numbers and technicalities and tell you that I've checked the pinned messages, is there a thread for all of that other than the pinned messages? Just struggling a bit, think I know the answer already though.
lusty grotto
cross faction guilds and Liquid is in so
pallid quiver
Has it changed back? It was mega Horde when I was last on it
like offensively horde back in pandaland
90% plus iirc
lusty grotto
probably not to make a huge dent, but i have no problems finding crafters as alliance
remember alliance has the better racials
so there's a lot more alliance now than in MoP
and of course crossfaction guilds helped a lot
pallid quiver
There's also tons of people in general on Illidan, so even if it is still 10%, that's still more Alliance than some of the smallers servers iirc
lusty grotto
absolutely
old flame
Hey guys, before I ask a question about numbers and technicalities and tell you ...
Ask away
civic kiln
Ask away
I am getting absolutely destroyed by the dragons in the hallway after frog of HOI (+10), usually middle one. I saw it was Spell Blockable but I believe my Vers could be higher after reviewing, it's at 20% or 4187. Changing a crafted item though would cost me Critical Strike or Haste.
I run Rageheart and the Stonescales for now and not BiS crafted items FYI. Nothing else does damage like them. I was considering trying to swap to Heavy Repercussions from Into the Fray but was told bad idea for now until my haste is higher than 40%.
lusty grotto
your stats arent whats killing you
old flame
Nim is right, it's not stats
lusty grotto
your haste % is not how you change to or from Into The Fray
its your rating
less than 5400 rating? use Heavy Repercussions
more than 5400 rating? use Into the Fray
percent does not matter
the dragons
their breath, you can simply run away from
and avoid all the damage
however, thats usually not the only thing that kills you there
old flame
Watch out for the earth guys
old flame
That stun circle will fuck you
lusty grotto
you can stun them, fear them, stop their casts with any stop
yes of course, but circle should be quite obvious
old flame
Rotate cool downs, shield wall is up faster than you think
civic kiln
Yeah I usually try to avoid the circle, pull the pat and have to toss ravager and reflect what I can. With the Earthshakers and the pat grabbing it's kind of just panic mode activate
old flame
I actually didn't know that nim
lusty grotto
reflecting without a reason = big bad
watch their casts
ice shard casting? reflect
run away from breath
thats it
nothing should hurt you badly until way higher keys
old flame
The run from breath bit
lusty grotto
and remember the most important thing: spell block doesnt work on its own, you need shield block up
old flame
Big facts
lusty grotto
do you happen to have a log?
we can check what youre doing, and go step by step
your stats are flat out not killing you so dont focus on those
civic kiln
and remember the most important thing: spell block doesnt work on its own, **you...
That part I did not know but I usually have it up anyway
civic kiln
Yeah I saw that
lusty grotto
you will have versa on its own since tier has it
violet ginkgo
reflecting without a reason = big bad
I reflect Larodar charge, just to reduce damage, this is count as a reason?
lusty grotto
larodar is fine
civic kiln
Mine are Mast (because of rings) > Haste > Crit > Vers
lusty grotto
but fortified icecallers you are better of reflecting the ice shards, it hits for 700k upwards to millions
violet ginkgo
Whoa even if you have bullion rings you shouldn't actively pursue mastery though.
lusty grotto
i dont think youre understanding
violet ginkgo
Of course the ring gives quite mastery but the other mastery source on the gear should be "Byproduct" instead of actively seeking it.
lusty grotto
what i just posted is what stats you should go for
on upgrades
big ilvl > replace slot
civic kiln
Actually, the only thing bringing my Mast up is Filial Duty, Tier shoulders, Gholak and Shield
lusty grotto
ilvl the same but has haste? replace slot
its fine
again
stats dont matter, just make sure youre prioritizing Ilvl over everything and then haste
civic kiln
Yeah
violet ginkgo
Oh then it's totally fine but of course if later you got a shield with better haste stat aka (haste/crit or haste/vers) insta replace that shield.
civic kiln
ilvl is king
violet ginkgo
oh yeah I was talking if he get the same ilvl
if got higher ilvl no brainer for sure.
lusty grotto
oh sure
civic kiln
520 here
lusty grotto
anyway to summarize:
- reflect Ice Shards from Primalist Icecallers (look at their cast, or install that weakaura that keeps getting asked for in here)
- run away from Glacial Proto-Dragon's Oceanic Breath, if you cant then pop Wall + Dstance, or pop Spell Block
- take it slow, theres no rush if youre at that part of the dungeon
and if you provide us with logs, we can figure out exactly what youre doing wrong
i know it may seem like a lot
civic kiln
Yup I have the WA, just practice then because I may have deleted the logs already.
lusty grotto
but its only 3 things that you gotta pay attention to
violet ginkgo
Nim that Glacial oceanic breath... can we really run from it? I thought it was tracking us, or you mean just heroic leap jump away?
civic kiln
Yes
civic kiln
It's the middle dragon that is worrisome because of the large pat that goes back and forth
violet ginkgo
hmmmm that guy I just pop spellblock and usually after spellblock end he is dead, but that is because I just run 8s filling vault.
lusty grotto
but tracking doesnt really matter
old flame
It's the middle dragon that is worrisome because of the large pat that goes back...
Just pull the pat separately
lusty grotto
youre running away from it, NOT side stepping
civic kiln
Yeah for the Lieutenant I just use Spell Block and for the pat they either do or don't pull because of the breath, it is definitely going to take me some practice
violet ginkgo
So run from the oceanic breath range? ok2.
lusty grotto
do it like this
civic kiln
They kind of hug up close
merry sluice
It's the middle dragon that is worrisome because of the large pat that goes back...
if ur gonna try to range the middle one and you explicitly want to avoid pulling the large pat.
Which is defintiely fine for lower keys timer wise
Just make sure you pull the pack further back, you have quite some time before it'll frontal. So you can pull group '2' in nim's picture closer to pull 1, and you'll have ample space to jump back
lusty grotto
even then
if you do the 2 things i listed
you can double that up no problem
just gotta watch icecallers, and run from breath
civic kiln
yeah tomorrow I'm going to do 10s and hopefully 11s with a healer I play with, just trying to figure out this pull specifically
lusty grotto
youll take minimal damage
icecallers casting? reflect
reflect not up? use fear or shockwave
or stormbolt on the one thats casting cause they have anti-sync im pretty sure
have none of those up? spell block
meanwhile watch the dragon (in case you gotta run away)
and use your cds accordingly
your situation can vary in a lot of ways
also
be very careful not to murder the group when running away from the breath
(:
old flame
😂
merry sluice
and if the random havoc decides to meta infront of the draogn as breath comes out
make sure to click on him /point /laugh
... don't do it. Not in game at least.
civic kiln
be very careful not to murder the group when running away from the breath
Think I have done this at least once
civic kiln
and if the random havoc decides to meta infront of the draogn as breath comes ou...
Absolutely will do this
Thanks for all the help everyone
old flame
That's what we're here for... (Mostly Nim cuz I think he doesn't sleep
merry sluice
also don't forget spell reflecting the tank combo on last boss so you can tie said havoc in boss dps lmfao
civic kiln
Oh I love that
2.4m spell reflect
and have my WA shout it out
Same with the frog for Gulp Toxin
lusty grotto
also highly consider a treemouth instead of rageheart
civic kiln
also highly consider a treemouth instead of rageheart
Right in the name
violet ginkgo
also don't forget spell reflecting the tank combo on last boss so you can tie sa...
Last week tyran boss HOI 35% ish but only lvl 7 key, all my teammate deadge and I said "Let me just solo it rather than we restart the whole thing." They mad because they thought I was powerless, lo and behold, I solo the boss and they be like "WTF!?" 1 person even rage quit and doesn't bother looting.
lusty grotto
treemouth is a 50% absorb on a gigantic shield, meaning it'll last its full duration if you have shield block or basic mit up
violet ginkgo
I like Dreadplate though.
lusty grotto
a 100% like rageheart is the first thing that gets hit and usually fades relatively quickly
civic kiln
Yeah I see everyone's a big fan of Dreadplate and Treemouth, I noticed Rageheart just melts and I get a life cocoon soon after lol
lusty grotto
damage checks first against full absorbs so thats why
dreadplate is mostly an offensive trinket
it has decent mitigation, but
we use it for the damage, its uncapped and does a metric asston
civic kiln
I played Prot Pally but was getting bored, I really liked the All Totem tbh