Ended with what the fuck are they doing
#protection
warm plinth
grizzled nova
wow they reduced the rage cost on rend for us
warm plinth
Thunderous Roar change is a gutshot
shut summit
yep, been very whelming
warm plinth
Though I might end up changing my name to stop not using barbaric training in TWW 
warm plinth
Yeah, we press it so often it's gonna be great
warm plinth
I'm annoyed that it said to look at the screenshots and then there was no class tree screenshot
lusty grotto
i dont see the prot breakdown
warm plinth
warm plinth
That's literally the only prot specific change
lusty grotto
its on the very bottom
grizzled nova
That's literally the only prot specific change
which isn't even a change
lusty grotto
furious blows removed hmm
toxic pewter
hell yeah they changing human racial 10% rep bonus
unironically my favorite change in a long time
plush tendon
hell yeah they changing human racial 10% rep bonus
lime parcel
malding rn
lime parcel
This is hilarious by the way, actual comedy from blizzard
I forgot we could even straight cast rend
echo egret
" Titanic Throw removed."
I am quite not happy about that, as this was very useful for ranged pulls in pugs that can't hold themselves.
ember token
It is just Alpha first stage but damn... That last (and only one) line about rend just left me frustrated
hardy snow
they literally telling us "fu*k you" with this "change"
lime parcel
The problem with prot isn’t in the prot tree it’s in the vdh tree. But they’re not touching illuminated sigils either so
shut summit
i wouldn't go that far, it's pretty bleak first impressions though
lean flower
Maybe we’ll see some good stuff in beta 
jagged pier
so many points require in that general tree already
hardy snow
It would look better if there wouldnt be anyything.
median tulip
median tulip
Idk if this is enough to break the meta
not even close
plush tendon
its literally a very simple change.... remove double sigil
boom
I just balanced the game
honest fiber
its literally a very simple change.... remove double sigil
A compromise would be to nerf their damage into the ground to create a tradeoff between their insane pulling ability and a lack of dps
plush tendon
thats silly
honest fiber
So is removing a core aspect of their class
grizzled nova
double sigil is not a core aspect lmao
honest fiber
It is now
plush tendon
and its causing issues; removing it does nothing to change the core of DH
grizzled nova
unless they plan on giving every tank insane crowd control it was a gross oversight that should be undone
plush tendon
they still have strong sigils, but they cant solo CC a dungeon
buff the parry chance of Illuminated sigils, let it work for SoF and ED so its a great aoe/dungeon option
but remove the double util
not even a hot take anymore... pretty lukewarm at this point
dark barn
Rend cost reduced, now protection have utility and will be meta
grizzled nova
both vdh and ppala are grossly overloaded on utility compared to other tanks, so long as damage and survivability are relatively well balanced they're the only two choices for m+
toxic pewter
full talent trees out for alpha
plush tendon
with the colussus choice node
for either extra 2seconds on stun
or 5 second CDR knockup
toxic pewter
knock up is sweet
toxic pewter
yah that like a full kidney shot on bunch of targets
plush tendon
hitting 3 targets its a 25 second CD
toxic pewter
nvm apparently kidney shot can go up to 6 seconds now lol
grizzled nova
I see zero circumstances where you'd take 4s over knockup+cdr
median tulip
There are too many cources of stuns for the extended stun to be truly useful; it's just going to run into DR. Whereas the knockup is very useful.
plush tendon
depends on comp
if you got a couple of aoe stuns already, makes more sense to get knock up
if not, then go for the long stun
good for DPS warriors
we'll see if they edit the prot warrior tree itself more
grizzled nova
honestly the spec tree I have very few complaints about
our cheat is straight ass juice, that's really all that actively bothers me
class tree still needs something that makes intervene actually useful
dark barn
the knockup stop casts without caring about immunity to stun?
grizzled nova
the knockup stop casts without caring about immunity to stun?
well typically stun immune things ie lieutenants are also knockup immune
knockup doesn't dr stun, tho
or vice versa
dark barn
Can someone explain the advantage of the knockup, sorry if its a stupid question
vital sinew
9 month physical debuff
humble schooner
So the only Prot War change was lowering Rend rage cost, which was applied with thunderclap anyways, unless I'm missing something
grizzled nova
Can someone explain the advantage of the knockup, sorry if its a stupid question
knockup isn't in stun dr category, or any dr category, afaik
knockup is a shorter ~2 second effect, but it always works for it's full duration regardless of how much mobs have been cc'd recently, which makes it a much more valuable effect
dark barn
nice 🙂
grizzled nova
So the only Prot War change was lowering Rend rage cost, which was applied with ...
tbf it doesn't look like any tank changes have happened
the few in the notes are incidental and other tanks are missing entirely
toxic pewter
does the new class tree give us any talents we generally were unable to get previously
hardy snow
does the new class tree give us any talents we generally were unable to get prev...
nah, we transfer 1 point in armored to the tteth into cruel strikes in order to get good things below
here is comparison of lowest rows
toxic pewter
oof
hardy snow
also in order to take this one point of armored to the teeth we need to take for example seismic, so slightly worse for raid build I guess
median tulip
I would not assume that the Protection tree is final
toxic pewter
although already have so many keybinds lol
lapis smelt
So glad we're getting execute crit damage instead of a main-stat buff to get to Thunderous Roar. Hope they just reposition that back over to Spear side.
median tulip
The fact that TRoar is no longer a Rage generator does make Champion's Spear more attractive
There's still exactly zero reason to take Intervene
lapis smelt
I can see Champion's Spear maybe sticking it out with M.Thane but bleed scaling from Colossus and the reworked amp from T.Roar is real enticing.
toxic pewter
intervene could be useful if you go mountain thane and go storm shield
lapis smelt
although I suppose Spear > Demolish could be big dam
median tulip
intervene could be useful if you go mountain thane and go storm shield
True, I missed that interaction as I've mostly been focused on the core talent trees
toxic pewter
the change to bleed damage from thunderous words kinda lame imo
lapis smelt
assuming there's any point where you can line Demolish up depending on what the CDR looks like
median tulip
On base timings you have TRoar every other Demolish
warm plinth
Yeah thunderous words is going to be a shadow of its former self.
median tulip
Uproar doesn't make that 1:1, which makes it rather useless
acoustic oasis
Coming back after leaving in s3, how is pwarr rn? How we looking for the future?
humble schooner
Coming back after leaving in s3, how is pwarr rn? How we looking for the future?
its fine right now, people hate them because its not meta, but more than capable
toxic pewter
I hope balance will be good enough to make it so if I want to go Mountain Thane I "can"
median tulip
Coming back after leaving in s3, how is pwarr rn? How we looking for the future?
Right now and going on for Season 4 we are middle of the road anonymous, just as we have been the whoole expansion
grizzled nova
its fine right now, people hate them because its not meta, but more than capable
No one hates them, vdh is just preposterous.
acoustic oasis
Yeahhhhh i remember being not the fotm class, and doing alright.
humble schooner
No one hates them, vdh is just preposterous.
hyperbole, but still
grizzled nova
Yeahhhhh i remember being not the fotm class, and doing alright.
the set we currently have offers a very enjoyable iteration of pwar gameplay, we're fine for all but the highest keys
humble schooner
anything but VDH / Prot Pally are considered "bad" but still fine for 90% of the content
and by that I mean any tank can do up to 28-29s
torn gulch
any tank can do title keys
of course you need to be good and you need to be invited to those keys
echo egret
... or build your premade around you playing warrior.
toxic pewter
omg tww season 1 warrior tier set appearance...
not sure what I think about this one lol seems badass i guess
grizzled nova
Yeh you can make title in a static group with pwar if your group wants to play hardmode, but pugging title with a pwar is going to be nigh impossible.
You just won't get invited to the keys you need.
echo egret
I haven't been a tremendous fan of their warrior tie sets in ages.
torn gulch
Yeh you can make title in a static group with pwar if your group wants to play h...
pugging won't happen you're not invited as a warr for those keys
humble schooner
I haven't been a tremendous fan of their warrior tie sets in ages.
There is a reason I only use older sets like t6 or the Mage tower set.. although trying to save for my t3 set... just need 2.3mil gold lol
toxic pewter
ngl not sure I actually like the new warrior class tree as much as the previous one
placement of certain abilities feels weird, but I guess I will get used to it
grizzled nova
honestly losing fervid going into tww is gonna feel bad
urban bane
WaWi season 1 warrior set looks peak chad and clown at the same time i dig it
toxic pewter
lol
median tulip
honestly losing fervid going into tww is gonna feel bad
Is it really? I don't ever really think about it
grizzled nova
yes, I enjoy the damage profile and immediate ip -> bite feedback
I think it's a loss for the spec that it isn't getting rolled over into the spec in some form for next expansion
plush tendon
WaWi season 1 warrior set looks peak chad and clown at the same time i dig it
big question for me is whether or not beards will show
beards show, looks swag
no beards... gross
urban bane
they typically have allowed beards on open face helmets like that since like... a long time right?
dark barn
Will change to earthen and never eat again. Food is for the weak
grizzled nova
Will change to earthen and never eat again. Food is for the weak
racial damage tied to pressing a 2.5s cast on cd every 2 minutes? pass
also they don't have a main stat well fed, unless there's going to be no main stat food that's also undesirable
dark barn
Huge
plush tendon
Evoker tier is putting all these others to shame
and they dont even get to see their mogs!
toxic pewter
Earthen racials data mined
dark barn
The racials could be strong. It depends of the numbers. The cast could be a strong self heal and the armor could be really hepful. Its all about the numbers
toxic pewter
The cast isn’t a heal is it
dark barn
The cast deals damage and heal
toxic pewter
Oh interesting
grizzled nova
its no stoneform
yeh the racials are just mechanically not desirable and stoneform is still stoneform so
toxic pewter
Yeah I cannot deny I’m a bit let down by these racials
They’re not awful.. just not sure
dark barn
Can block dodge parry when channeling an empower ability?
I want to know too
toxic pewter
Empower ability is kinda weird
dark barn
Probably this spell will gonna be strong just to sell the race and racial changes
toxic pewter
Yeah just seems dangerous for tanks to channel crap
I’m sure they’ll let us block dodge parry surely…
median tulip
The earthen get bonus finesse. Farmer bots ahoy.
plush tendon
ruins the theme of Dwarves having a cleanse
grizzled nova
Probably this spell will gonna be strong just to sell the race and racial change...
I doubt it, people will continue to minmax for damage which means you'll have to send the racial on cd and pressing a 2.5s cast every 2 minutes vs passive racials? aintnoway
plush tendon
it wont be signficant
toxic pewter
Anyone know if evokers can dodge or parry when they doing an empower ability
grizzled nova
Anyone know if evokers can dodge or parry when they doing an empower ability
it just has to be whitelisted for permitting defenses during cast, like anything else
dark barn
Can KT block while channeling haymaker?
toxic pewter
Can KT block while channeling haymaker?
Don’t think they can but I may be wrong
grizzled nova
it isn't inherent to types of cast mechanics
no mainstat food + cast time damage racial = doa flavor race tbh
going in for that lightforged dranei
lusty grotto
Are there any bad tanks right now?
no
median tulip
I might make an Earthen Shaman, but I don't think they'll be all that for Warrior
lusty grotto
there are top tanks, but all tanks can do basically all content
dark barn
The most important thing is how much bigger than normal dwarfs
honest fiber
If they dont gave a scottish accent then im not playing them
grand veldt
lusty grotto
let the memes begin!
dark barn
Berserker rage + demolish, yea buddies welcome to the zone of button bloat. Lets hug our brewmaster friends
Im not complaining just think its funny kk
lusty grotto
what button bloat, i never removed my ber rage bind
but coming back turns that frown upside down
dusky canopy
Shift G getting used again
lusty grotto
hell yeah brother
warm plinth
what button bloat, i never removed my ber rage bind
I love this
lusty grotto
never talented it, but i just couldnt remove it
its a legacy key bind!
hell
i had bloodrage key bound for like 4 expansions past its removal
until i desperately needed the bind
well... maybe not 4 expansions, more like 2
warm plinth
Rip
warm plinth
I like that piercing howl is actually pickable in the new class tree
I love that spell
lusty grotto
oh it was removed in cata
warm plinth
It's hilarious that we already wouldn't take shattering throw for incorp and instead of making it easier to take, you now have to take the utter shit that is honed reflexes to get to it.
lusty grotto
😬
warm plinth
I wish we could have that class tree now though
lusty grotto
indeed that does feel bad
dark barn
Im still expecting some change in the actual prot tree. Things always could be better
Rend reduced cost is a joke
lusty grotto
well, whoever got into the alpha needs to provide feedback
though, that usually doesnt really do much
dark barn
The pseudo cheat death capstone needs a fix
cerulean tusk
what button bloat, i never removed my ber rage bind
I still got it bound, I get everytime I click it and nothing happens
It just feels wrong
lusty grotto
worry not my friend, soon!
no longer will we get feared by.... that one corehound in amirdrassil lmaooooo
rezan will be gone so not gonna count him
dark barn
Some frightful Scarab boss with fear will appears, our time will come
median tulip
I like that piercing howl is actually pickable in the new class tree
Agreed. Going to be good for Spiteful weeks
median tulip
Im still expecting some change in the actual prot tree. Things always could be b...
They haven''t done anything to any of thhe tanks as yet. I assume that will come later on.
strong forum
no longer will we get feared by.... that one corehound in amirdrassil lmaooooo
You see, you have your very smart and quick shaman talent into tremor totem after igira
toxic pewter
The most important thing is how much bigger than normal dwarfs
Earthen colossus Warr gonna be a big boy
pallid quiver
what button bloat, i never removed my ber rage bind
this is also me
In fact, I still reflexively hit the button when I get feared
I'm winning with that change
torn gulch
i guess it's time to expand some keybinds next xpac
i wonder where i'll bind demolish
pallid quiver
bind it on your foot pedal
torn gulch
kekw
nea i'll have to group it with medium sized cd's
i group keybinds by categories
on all my characters
kick on same binds stuns on same binds rotationals on same binds etc
pallid quiver
for the record, i also still have devastate bound
torn gulch
well there is your demolish bind
pallid quiver
I like the theme of Mountain Thane more,
torn gulch
thane is nice thematically
pallid quiver
but colossus 5% size
toxic pewter
anyone seen any footage of colossus or mountain thane from the alpa yet? literally every video i have seen is some dude playing paladin..
seen 1 video but its in czech
oak ivy
what dungeons can I get away with not taking spell block
warm plinth
Depends who youre asking
you ofc
strong forum
what dungeons can I get away with not taking spell block
Atal dazar, wcm and brh
That being said, the gain of not running spellblock is 1% dmg at best
Not worth the brainpower, and there are like 1 or 2 cases where spellblock isn't entirely useless in those dungeons
warm plinth
ah dang, still a ways off then
strong forum
With 250k being the "yeah I pumped" mark
But your overall will be higher with keylevel
warm plinth
Probably would've been around that mark if I'd done the kobold hallway in 1 pull
strong forum
Hard to get those numbers in low keys
warm plinth
Yeah that's probably part of it as well; it was only an 18
strong forum
Yeah GL with that
warm plinth
But I did all of the dominators and all of the last hallway in one pull each
so the kobolds were the only part I could've done bigger
strong forum
For big overall you want 2 Dominator pulls, 1 Kobold, and a very long last boss
And ofc jumpy boi pull also in 1 go
So you basically just want a high keylevel
And obv 2chesting it
strong forum
yeah
i would show logs but my only relevant log is a mega deplete where 1 pull lasted like 7 minutes cuz i did a very smart sanguine pull
and there i did 220k log dps
so in an actual run i could prolly squeeze out 250k
grim pilot
uh
highest I had in keys was like
260k or something
in eb
defo did like 270k on my bdk without lego but
cant recall war
i'll check
strong forum
ive only done meme tank runs in EB
strong forum
ye thats my brh28 tyr sang
but turbo troll run
so lower than could be
also why am i the only pwar who doesnt run cheat death in BRH
theres literally NOTHING that can kill you in there
outside of bolstering
strong forum
theres 1 pull
grim pilot
after 2nd boss
strong forum
like thats what you do
you go d-stance, chain CDs and rageheart until everything is gathered
once you have all bleeds and your dmg going
leech+indom will carry the rest
that what you have CDs for
grim pilot
i still dont have one
nor augury
pepega
tho I did sell the heroic augury because a guy offered to me 600k for it like 5 weeks before season ended so....
grim pilot
yep
ye[
also I love
how my priest whom I didnt touch till like 6 weeks into the season
is 488 with 16% avoidance 7% leech 9% speed
whereas my warrior has like 1 or 2 leech items and one 483 avoidance item I dropped in a key
grim pilot
imagine
strong forum
nothing thats reduced by avoidance can kill a warrior anyway
strong forum
you got like 26 other specs that die before the warri
strong forum
well yeah but that hurts for everyone
but all that matters is not getting 1shot
if you survive the bolt you got like 7-10seconds of chill
soulrend is way scarier imo
cuz not reduced by avoidance
very kring
strong forum
craft lariat, and voila, done with jewelery
(this is for arms)
as prot you buy gholak first
and then egnarog ring
lusty grotto
yeah i dont even know what im buying as arms
strong forum
engaros ring
lusty grotto
i was thinking manic grief might be good for it too
oak ivy
eggnogg ring
strong forum
everyone in the game wants that ring
same goes for grieftorch
but theres other good trinkets
lusty grotto
yesh
strong forum
no clue
lusty grotto
i vaguely remember the sylv bow being upgradeable that way
strong forum
if so, be it
lusty grotto
as in you bought a thing that upped its level and it was bought with dinars, but i could be wrong
unless theres a drop
pallid quiver
I believe it's that way again last I had heard
lusty grotto
either way my guild isnt doing mythic seriously this next season so welp
pallid quiver
It moves it to like 50x or something, then you can upgrade it all the way to Mythic track ilvl from what I heard
lusty grotto
yeah
pallid quiver
also why am i the only pwar who doesnt run cheat death in BRH
Also, I just caught this while reading back through, and it's because Prot War can't survive because bad; S1 nerfs killed it obviously
grim pilot
soulrend is way scarier imo
yeah
also issue with soulrend is you take damage right after
ripe mason
this is a very yuzu post
ionic fern
lusty grotto
ionic fern
PSA, from now on you can find me in #1230008411333066913 , bye.
earnest tapir
do anyone know if some specs not updated yet, or arent there any changes to them? Like Prot Warrior are the exact same (if i didnt missed something)
Same for BrewM MOnks, but i guess brewM are an error, cause u get a Tank Spell now via class tree and you can still skill the exact same spell in the tank tree again.
slender gull
Hope to god they let us trade crests to alts over the warbands lol
I have 500 aspects just collecting dust 😦
teal swift
this is a very yuzu post
:3
trim wind
Would you say Disrupting shout is important for you in m+?
pale karma
Hope to god they let us trade crests to alts over the warbands lol
Me too though that would work against their engagement metrics
earnest cove
Hope to god they let us trade crests to alts over the warbands lol
In their faq they specifically talked about crests, not not warband wide
slender gull
@earnest cove sad face ugh. Lol
ionic fern
Would you say Disrupting shout is important for you in m+?
I enjoy it in specific dungeons. Mainly for grouping multiple caster packs together more easily.
Everbloom is a great example of this.
And Rise.
That's about it for me i think.
blazing condor
wake your yellow names up
ionic fern
@jagged pier stop slacking.
echo egret
I enjoy it in specific dungeons. Mainly for grouping multiple caster packs toget...
I would have assumed it doesn’t have sufficient range to group up several (spread) packs
ionic fern
Surprisingly it does.
Triple caster packs around EB's first boss, you can easily group 2 of them together with Disrupting.
blazing condor
outsource it to some less fortunate ppl
median tulip
Didn't wowhead try that and ended up with something written by a paladin?
blazing condor
sus
warm plinth
Didn't wowhead try that and ended up with something written by a paladin?
He definitely said paladin a lot
cerulean tusk
Oh I remember that one, it was gold. Saltvalues off the chart and to the moon
cinder storm
I'm planning on pushing casually this season but my time is a bit limited right now, I know talking about meta specs this early is dumb and unrealistic but, what seems to be the consensus of what tank might be most viable?
I run with a disc priest and it's always a bit of an uphill battle when you get to higher keys and other tanks just bore me
jagged pier
Vdh
torn gulch
High damage tanky and absolutely broken control
It s actually unreal to me that developers are letting that level of control stay on a tank
cinder storm
I think it will stay that way for the rest of the season as they focus more on the upcoming expansion
I'm happy they added siege back but I think kings rest would've been better than NW
dusky canopy
I personally didn’t like SoB at all
Might have a different opinion the 2nd time around though who knows
median tulip
It s actually unreal to me that developers are letting that level of control sta...
Agreed; it really devalues not only other tanks, but the DPS whose contributions are meant to exist partially in the control space
warm plinth
Might have a different opinion the 2nd time around though who knows
Spotter strat is virtually dead too with bolstering having a duration now, and raging not increasing damage
dusky canopy
That’s true yeah good chance it’s enjoyable this time around for me
median tulip
Doesn't Siege change massively depending on faction, though?
mellow bridge
yes
alliance side is horrible
they need to rework a lot of things in that dungeon
which is why im VERY skeptic
median tulip
I only ever did the Horde run
torn gulch
I think it will stay that way for the rest of the season as they focus more on t...
0 excuse for that the fix takes literally 10 min of a developer time and while it will still have dh as the top tank other specs will be much more competitive
mellow bridge
the alliance start was so bad that people rather lost 1 minute to running and jumping around to get the horde start than playing the alliance start
- alliance for whatever reason lost like an extra 30s to RP at the end lmao
median tulip
Wake is an... interesting choice. I'm not sure how they are going to deal with the weapons and the goliath buffs. They surely can't expect everyone to swap to Kyrian before doing it. For that matter, they surely won't allow any of the SL effects to work.
mellow bridge
probably just make the goliaths activatable by anyone
weapons were usable by everyone too
median tulip
Mists will be hilarious purely for the first boss with Demolish, but the maze could be torture in a PUG
warm plinth
people did spotter strats without bolstering or raging
I didn't say they wouldn't do it. Just that it is virtually dead. Relative to bfa it will be a lot less effective than it was on those weeks.
warm plinth
I side towards removing them
Unless they massively nerf third and fourth boss, they will never do that.
Both were basically impossible to kill without weapons on higher keys
mellow bridge
i dont understand how the go to strat is virtually dead but w/e
warm plinth
It's not that deep dude. Virtually dead might have been putting it strongly, I'll admit.
humble schooner
Mists will be hilarious purely for the first boss with Demolish, but the maze co...
I recall there being a weakaura for the maze which made it a lot easier
median tulip
There were several, but pugger always fucked it up anyhow
urban bane
i too am not that deep 
dusky canopy
Can’t wait to throw spear through 20 mobs on first boss again
warm plinth
Remove weapons, nerf bosses
Friend of mine suggested certain weapons be linked to (and only affect) bosses, and reappear if you wipe
Think that would've been much better
warm plinth
That's basically every gimmick blizzard puts in
waxen frigate
Mists will be hilarious purely for the first boss with Demolish, but the maze co...
I would bet we’re going to get a set maze
Like WCM
warm plinth
I wouldn't be surprised by that either
median tulip
You mean each week?
waxen frigate
No
waxen frigate
I mean it’s just one for the season
Same as freehold and wcm
Where they removed the rng
warm plinth
Wcm used to have rotating doors and rotating witches. Now they're locked
median tulip
I dunno, the witches in WCM spawned differently each week
waxen frigate
Well it started the season with rotating witches
waxen frigate
Not sure what patch but for a while now it’s been kitchen and bottom of stairs
median tulip
Did it? I haven't been paying attention, clearly
median tulip
I autopilot WCM TBQH
waxen frigate
This dungeon pool is literally unhinged thoigh
I’m just astounded they clearly learned NOTHING
Like all of DF m+ being poorly received
And they didn’t learn shit
Another xpac of 8 new dungeons that are only relevant for a season and a half each
😄
warm plinth
Idk I liked the change up personally
median tulip
I thought the taking out of seasonal affixes was bad TBH; I would prefer to see Tyr and Fort DIAF
cinder storm
Old dungeons can be fun if the new powers and changes are fun as well. For the most part, DF felt stale imo, I had a lot of fun watching Twilight Devastation go brrr
Seasonal affixes should be mostly kiss/curse or just straight out buffs or mechanical advantages
The real challenge in a dungeon is always waiting for blizz to nerf and balance things out
waxen frigate
The real challenge in a dungeon is always waiting for blizz to nerf and balance ...
Yeah except they don’t really do that
And then rather than continue to refine dungeons over an xpac
W just get new ones that are broken in new exciting ways
teal swift
I'd prefer to see the same 8 dungeons all xpac, adding 1-2 new ones each tier
And last season just has like 12 dungeons
🤷♀️
ionic roost
I'd just like it for dungeon tuning to have all 8 be similar difficulty
It's just annoying to have 1-2 dungeons be noticeably harder/easier
But maybe that's too stagnant for push groups
Being able to leap frog a hard dungeon
teal swift
It's just annoying to have 1-2 dungeons be noticeably harder/easier
I disagree lol
I miss maw of souks
I love when one or two keys are easier and one or two are harder
Shoutouts to kings rest and sots
ionic roost
Maw wasn't easy. It was just fast and spamable at 9s
But every dungeon was piss easy at 9
vital sinew
Anyone who misses Maw is unhinged.
teal swift
I liked pushing maw
vital sinew
Yeah, the first 100 times
waxen frigate
Stoked to announce the canned fish saga has once again reared its head
And I am hunting down the specific cannery where a certain brand is from in order to determine the original source of the fish
Because it is a relabeled can (openly) but they are not open about the other brands that utilize that cannery
We might be making phone calls to Spain at 5am tomorrow
wild hemlock
wut
lmaooooo i had nish blocked. i havent been here in months. join, view his message, and that beatuiful statement is what i see
didnt know i had him blocked
warm plinth
Not to mention #1 plunderstorm io
jagged pier
and not to mention the 4.1k io as well
warm plinth
Trueee
waxen frigate
lmaooooo i had nish blocked. i havent been here in months. join, view his messag...
Hello friend
waxen frigate
Nish is #1 canned fish man
We might be placing another order soon
warm plinth
Good thing they nerfed whirlwind damage in tww. That rage cost nerf would have made it too powerful
median tulip
it's just a carry-over from the Arms changes
cinder nova
Any ideas on S4 BIS?
median tulip
ilvl > Haste > w/e
cinder nova
That's a stat prio.
There's no shortage of on-hit and damage effect trinkets, weapons, and other bullshit across the tiers this xpac so discerning which is gonna come out on top is gonna be important.
I'm hoping it wont be double Amirdrassil trinkets
Because I kinda liked that OWS was our SL bis in the meme-season
hardy snow
Its hard to say whats bis, as Blizz is still doing some tuning, especially for trinkets.
median tulip
Personally I want to try and get Gholak, both Rings from the pair in vault, and any 2 fire damage trinkets. Plus double shadowflame embelishes
Maybe the Neck that gives a Shield on fire damage as well, for funsies
knotty vortex
is Gholak our best weapon in s4
warm plinth
Easily
strong forum
It is
By a landslide
And it'll probably be your first bullion buy
Either first or 2nd
lavish sphinx
Got worried I’d have to make room for whirlwind for a second
warm plinth
lunar plover
Gonna be running some dungeons tomorrow in the Alpha. Any of the brain people want logs?
limber galleon
hi, I'm a newb and I don't necessarily understand yet when to Spell Block; how do you learn when to use it
ionic fern
Hello Newb, i'm Mwahi.
We have this fun sheet that Sense has been managing, in the pins.
You can find the dungeon/raid you are interested in, and see if the ability is blockable / reflectable.
Remember that in order for Spell Block to actually work, you need to have Shield Block up.
lunar plover
But i would ither dm them or post them in tww channel
Didn't realize there was a TWW channel. tyty
limber galleon
<:FeelsFingerGunMan:623260182167945227>
You are a godsend thank you
limber galleon
Remember that in order for Spell Block to actually work, you need to have Shield...
I didn’t know that. Can we block anything if Shield Block isn’t up?
Isn’t there some passive block chance?
limber galleon
I did 84% in my last key with into the fray
I’m still only 462 though with stats all over the place
First pull with no rage was scary though (throne)
Will take any tips as to which abilities to focus on as I gather
ionic fern
Charge + SS should get you enough Rage for a SB.
Alternatively, you can Shield Wall.
Remember that if you turn your back to enemies, you can't block attacks.
What i usually do in the first pull of Throne:
1)Charge into the first 2 mobs + TC/SS + SB for initial agro;
2)Charge into the next pack, interrupt the caster there;
3)Leap into the 3rd pack, AoE silence the casters there
4)Gather them all in the middle.
Sometimes i also just pop SW and run through while gathering them.
limber galleon
Ok ty, also I have team mates and I count on them to help me interrupt at range but it doesn’t always work out
wintry tide
What professions would benefit me on my prot warrior?
grim pilot
Alchemy and prob engi
But its nothing exceptional
Alchemy for flasks and for bh in s4, engi for invis on belt
wintry tide
Ok thank you
hardy snow
What professions would benefit me on my prot warrior?
if you are on small pop server - blacksmithing so you dont waste time looking for crafter
dusky canopy
Generally, engi/alchemy usually has the best benefits every expansion
median tulip
Don't underestimate just how much gold Blacksmithing saves you. Free Repairs is an amazing benefit.
Especially if you're progression raiding
dusky canopy
That’s fair yeah
ionic fern
Ok ty, also I have team mates and I count on them to help me interrupt at range ...
Don't. Never trust randoms. Dps players don't kick. As a tank pugging, only rely on yourself. Don't expect dps'ers to do anything.
hardy snow
Don't underestimate just how much gold Blacksmithing saves you. Free Repairs is ...
get herbalism or mining, gather herbs/ore at begining of expansion - you will have more gold than you will spent for repairs through whole expansion
median tulip
Herb and Mine is what my Hunter is for
knotty vortex
Either first or 2nd
What is the 2nd? I'm guessing there's a trinket that's really op
hazy bronze
Diurna ring
warm plinth
What is the 2nd? I'm guessing there's a trinket that's really op
Rageheart would be my play. Still gonna be amazing in s4, barely got nerfed
ionic fern
Gholak + Eranog ring.
There's quite a lot of decent trinkets from any of the raids.
Gholak is by far our best weapon and Eranog ring our best one as well.
knotty vortex
Does shadowflame dmg count as fire to proc the ring
warm plinth
Combo damage types count as all of their respective damage types.
Shadow flame, holy strike, radiant, frostfire, etc
All count as e.g. shadow flame shadow and flame
knotty vortex
That's even better. Ring is gonna do some good dmg
knotty vortex
are they giving us 1 spark a week or every other week in s4
harsh trellis
Hey gang, I missed some of the prot changes comin in TWW. Is there a list of prot war changes listed yet?
I saw the blood and thunder change in game already
jagged pier
hardy snow
are they giving us 1 spark a week or every other week in s4
I think thats unknown yet. Season starts in 4-5 days, so Blizz havent posted such details yet 😐
radiant mortar
Hello quick question, should those buttons normally change the rotation side in the guide?
ionic fern
Where?
radiant mortar
ionic fern
@strong forum , a call for you.
Oh, he's in a key right now, so probably will get back to you as soon as he's done.
radiant mortar
Yeah
ionic fern
But i would assume so, yes.
radiant mortar
Okay will need to wait with learning :(
was super irritated with how short the "rota guide" is :D
jagged pier
i mean our rotation is basically SS > TC > revenge/execute if the other 2 are off cd
and if u are on + targets or not
radiant mortar
throwing letters at me like I know what they mean
Joke aside, I need the list because I played warri in SoO for the last time.
median tulip
Joke aside, I need the list because I played warri in SoO for the last time.
The important thing to know about retail Prot Warrior is that your 2 main spenders - Shield Block and Ignore Pain - are both off-GCD. So your on-GCD abilities should be focused on generating as much Rage as possible. The core of the generators are Shield Slam and Thunderclap; TClap can proc a cooldown reset for Shield Slam. You also have longer cooldown Rage generators (Ravager, Thunderous Roar, Demo Shout w/ Booming Voice etc) to weave in, and if all else fails you use Revenge or Execute to fish for Shield Slam resets via the Strategist talent
radiant mortar
Thank you for the short and handy note 👍
strong forum
Hello quick question, should those buttons normally change the rotation side in ...
no
we only have 1 rotation
radiant mortar
Oh hell yeah, so why are they clickable?
median tulip
Probably just a site layout/setup thing
strong forum
ya ill have to fix a handful of things on that site
lusty tiger
hardy snow
Do I remember well, that bleed ignores armor?
ionic fern
Do I remember well, that bleed ignores armor?
Correct.
urban bane
crawth taught me that 
rapid jewel
does anyone tested (or have some videos) of hero talents in alpha?
keen leaf
There's an alpha channel
waxen frigate
all dots ignore armor
The polka dots I painted on ur armor don’t
pallid quiver
Nish, I hate to tell you this, but those became tats. They're with Nome forever.
urban bane
is it lookin like signet brand and pocket anvil for us?
lusty grotto
last i heard it was manic grief
urban bane
was doing some fiddling around with sims and thats more or less what i arrived at. but i just kinda overrode the ilvl on a bunch so i figure grain of salt. and ig someone has to run icon if enough dps/healers want it. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2RJU2dKVjf9NnygUyfH99J
lusty grotto
and alt totem
urban bane
Oh I may have missed totem here
urban bane
yeah i forgot to include totem
lusty grotto
i mean it should since the updates are live
or at least i think
but not 100% sure
urban bane
not seeing totem at least for st sim all that great. of course multi target (m+, e.g.) a different story. might be doin somethin wrong tho
urban bane
Thanks, Nome! 
hardy snow
Signet got recently some tuning so it can proc of it procs, but Im not sure how much it helps with rng.
but good thing is that we can spend first four tokens on Gholak and Eranog ring (if you wont get it on first two weeks), by the time we would spend tokens on trinkets all testing/sims/tuning will be already done 
urban bane
yeh that helps put it in perspective. and if anvil is actually slammin, well, it isnt exactly hard to obtain
unfort. what brought on my curiosity was that im tanking for raid and dpsing for keys. so i guess somethin' will be delayed regardless
strong forum
But yeh you pretty much got the setup (not rly hard to figure out)
keen leaf
I can't do allied wrists and battle rez wrists right? theyre different or can i socket the allied?
terse nova
no. brez is not something a warrior does.
trail fox
Hey, is there any WA for routing a m+?
trail fox
I know the addon, just was thiking if theyre arrows showing the way too
I think i saw that ones on a youtube
strong forum
i dont think you can get a GPS weakaura without breaking ToS but i might be wrong
waxen frigate
@patent osprey bro this got me fucked up
shut summit
waxen frigate
not the DH coper baiting
i dont think its even bait man hes just delulu
strong forum
could be
idle needle
strong forum
ik
got banned in felhammer cuz of his insanity
then went on a hate train on twitter
that him not being able to use literal slurs on a public forum is censorship 🙂
urban bane
yikes
strong forum
most average DH enjoyer
pallid quiver
Nah, I think that's all sensible- ooh that's a fun one
-since you have to sell your soul to play DH and all
strong forum
also his hate tirades on wowforums
urban bane
i was about to say, banned from felhammer dude must've done somethin' heinous
strong forum
dude tried everything to make people believe havoc wasnt OP during PTR and early s1
pallid quiver
I am also contractually obligated to state that censoring slurs is, in fact, censorship, but it's the kind of censorship that should exist, unlike ridding the world of normal ass books because people hate people reading
urban bane
luerce you made this librarian (me) happy cry
strong forum
theres a difference between preventing you from stating an opinion vs literally spamming r and n
pallid quiver
You do the real good work, Museless
urban bane
pallid quiver
theres a difference between preventing you from stating an opinion vs literally ...
Yeah, that's what I wanna tell people
strong forum
especially after being told off multiple times by mods
and AGGRESSIVELY pinging the dev of your class
repeatedly
but nah fam
felhammer is cooked, not him
its their fault
but yeah enough ranting
pallid quiver
i'm unsure if this is directed towards me or ranting at him
i'm not socially smart enough for this one
strong forum
me ranting at him
pallid quiver
Okay, just wanted to clarify, since I'm really on your side on this issue from everything I hear, just have an axe to grind with the people throwing censorship around like a buzzword instead of as a topic to actually investigate and think on
lusty grotto
lusty grotto
twitter be twitter
but yeah i kind of follow the same thought that censorship is meh
pallid quiver
yeah i hate that a lot, since people just use it like a boogeyman phrase to power jockey, but that's neither here nor there for this Discord (at the moment and in the future, hopefully)
lusty grotto
honestly
it doesnt deter us from having the same ole convos here so its not really a big deal but yea
i do agree though, throwing it out as a buzzword speaks volumes
same as throwing out other shit such as "woke"
like who cares
so yeah that guy needs a heavy dose of touching grass
strong forum
thats how you get attention
lotta buzzwords
even if it doesnt make sense
just gotta sound smart and agreeable
pallid quiver
drives engagement, makes the algo push you more
patent osprey
<@133743762999476224> bro this got me fucked up
True and Real
lusty grotto
💯
iron geode
hi, i’m a main tank planning to play prot this next season
i usually play brew and this is my first time with prot so i have some questions
is it worth to get out of defensive stance in m+? the dr looks too good to pass up
median tulip
is it worth to get out of defensive stance in m+? the dr looks too good to pass ...
You tank in BStance 99% of the time. DStance is a cooldown for specific high-damage events
iron geode
hmmm i see
i will try it out, thx
for victory rush, what is the priority?
do i just send when available
median tulip
for victory rush, what is the priority?
Spec Impending Victory
median tulip
And in general you use it if you somehow get low on HP. But that shouldn''t happen very often
iron geode
sounds good
median tulip
Most of your self-healing is from the passive Indomitable and Ignore Pain
iron geode
when i’m starting the pool, is shield block enough? or i should use a cd too
median tulip
Depends on the pull
iron geode
big pulls, i mean
median tulip
But Shield Wall comes back in like 90s or less when you're in full flow, so just send it if it's a big pull
And you have Demo Shout
iron geode
sounds good
median tulip
and Spell Block and Spell Reflect for magic damage heavy pulls
grim pilot
most of the time you're probably sending shield wall while collecting
iron geode
spell reflect i use even if i can’t reflect right?
median tulip
It's mit for the duration, regardless of whether you get a reflect or not
iron geode
i see, i was testing the flow of the spec and it looks a lot more tanky then brew in m+
median tulip
It also has a funky interaction when it determines if something is going to be reflected when the cast ends, but doesn't do the reflect until the projectile lands, so on some pulls you can manage to reflect multiple casts
iron geode
but i was in dstance 100% of the time
median tulip
i see, i was testing the flow of the spec and it looks a lot more tanky then bre...
We are the kings of Mitigation. Just don't take any damage. Simples.
iron geode
looks pretty hard to die to be honest
median tulip
We diie slow.
iron geode
i will try it out with bstance but it’s looking good
median tulip
The key talents that you need to read and understand are Strategist, Anger Management, Indomitable and Violent Outburst. Those define the spec.
iron geode
other question, should i track the tier set?
iron geode
The key talents that you need to read and understand are Strategist, Anger Manag...
oki, i will take a look on them
median tulip
The core of Prot Warrior is a feedback loop caused by those talents; your major Rage Spenders (Shield Block and Ignore Pain) are off-GCD. You want Shield Block up always (it STACKS the duration to a maximum of 3 times the base duration) and you use Ignore Pain as a Rage Dump.
Your on-GCD casts are focused on Rage Generation - Shield Slam should be on cooldown always; second priority is Thunderclap, which both gens Rage and can proc Strategist. They you have Ravager, Demo Shout (with Booking Voice) and other longer things that gen Rage too. If all else fails, go fishing for Strategist procs with Revenge or Execute - but that's the lowest priority.
Never, ever, ever waste Rage. There are points where you will be fighting to dump Rage into Ignore Pain fast enough, but every drop of the red juice you can spend procs Anger Management, and that's the most important thing.
Send Avatar on cooldown; you get it back in 30-35s when you''re doing it right
@iron geode hope that helps
sick sentinel
it's kind of like disc priest in that regard - always be smiting, you end up with a 30 second shadowfiend. it's counterintuitive until you do it once then you feel like a king
waxen frigate
is it worth to get out of defensive stance in m+? the dr looks too good to pass ...
dstance is extremely powerful but you also just rarely take enough dmg to need to ever use it
hardy snow
Does anyone know (or remember how it was in previous season), if bought chests with items for alts bought for flightstones or conquest are kept after season? I have unleveled alt that I would like to gear, but I dont know if I have to hurry with lvling.
warm plinth
They are kept but they'll still be prior season gear
hardy snow
They are kept but they'll still be prior season gear
thanks, thats what I was hoping for 😄
warm plinth
pallid quiver
other question, should i track the tier set?
I'm late, but the tier set you're fine not really tracking; you can if you want, but it's much more important to track shield block duration/whether it's up and violent outburst, one of your talents that helps gen a lot of rage
forest fern
If you don’t want to track it just get hardliner in the habit that you always cast a shield slam after an ignore pain. Since most procs come from it that should limit wastage. You can even change your ignore pain spell to macro that auto uses SS after it to not waste those procs also
silver crane
Hey, is anyone online covering prot warrior in war within? So far touchpad warrior is covering arms & fury but not prot ...
topaz field
What is the general consensus of spending outburst procs? Do i send them to my own gusto on tc for more dmg in aoe or is it always worth to spend on ss because of AM?
jagged pier
u basically send it on SS
unless your in like +7 targets
general rule of thumb tho just send on SS
u get more rage
dusky sentinel
And whatever Jakey says is legit. So follow him. I did a couple of years ago
dark barn
Hot take: Blizzards needs to create a option to mark important procs/buffs to show in the middle of screen or whenever you want. That simple feature can help people to use less weak auras
Juat imagine ignore pain and shield block in a VISIBLE position
And things like fueled in violence
warm plinth
Ignore Pain doesn't need to be tracked, and neither does Fueled by Violence.
I do think buff auras should be moveable and filterable in the default UI though.
forest fern
Ion said in an interview they have way more UI stuff coming during new expansion. I think they noticed while their new UI looks good it ain’t really much more useful to the player other than the “coat of paint” it got
urban bane
i certainly see the value in them improving things such as buff tracking and whatnot. but im not optimistic that it can be a replacement for what WAs does in that department.
ig it wouldnt have to be, really! but yea, it'd be nice regardless
warm plinth
I don't like the idea of restricting addons TOO much. I think addons are part of what make WoW great
urban bane
ya agreed
private auraing your buffs
phew, that's not a reality we live in. but i didn't like imagining that
pallid quiver
Y'know, that makes me thunk; we need a pvp mode where everything this private aura'd
Even your screen
Can't see anything, can't hear,
Just got to somehow bumblefuck your way to the opponent and beat them to death
radiant mortar
What tier set was chosen for s4?
warm plinth
This one
radiant mortar
👍
strong forum
Was never officially announced by blizzard
But we just assumed it was S3 set
And it's the S3 on PTR
But they never confirmed any tiersets for s4 via a post
They just let people guess based on votes done on the forum
urban bane
Y'know, that makes me thunk; we need a pvp mode where **everything** this privat...
so cursed it is blessed
Piñata PVP
warm plinth
All of the ones that one the vote are the ones on the PTR so
blazing condor
no gameplay changes for half a year pog
tame jasper
But they never confirmed any tiersets for s4 via a post
All three raids will also drop a new tier token to exchange for new tier pieces with the appearance and set bonus combination that players voted for.
From the S4 announcement
And new gear sets for pvp
Or do I missunderstand your comment?
strong forum
i was throwing shade at blizz
for just not telling us
with an announcement
and just letting us guess
waxen orbit
I will say
I'm very concerned with the amount of yall EU lads that voted for S1 tier bonus
grim pilot
wasnt it much higher in NA
waxen orbit
I may be misremembering but
I swear it was EU that had higher votes on S1 tier
(I wanna make it clear I'm not trying to start a region war, just starting a tad bit of banter on the subject)
grim pilot
waxen orbit
Well fuck me sideways
I stand corrected
Kinda wish we got both S2 tier AND S3 tier somehow
Like maybe implement S2 tier into TWW talent tree
jagged gust
I mean SS having a shockwave is pretty awesome especially for aoe gathering
but being tied in to LS was pretty lame
waxen orbit
Yeah, tying an offensive benefit to a defensive is a pretty poor design decision imho
But
Maybe a rework of having it activate on Avatar
Or for several seconds after casting Dragon Roar
Which would synergize well with S3 tier
jagged gust
Yeah having a bit of spec synergy for a class spell sounds neat
and further enforces good rage gen habits
hardy snow
gj bro
iron geode
<@1031264591793111040> hope that helps
ty vm! it helped a lot ❤️
waxen frigate
Based arms player
lusty grotto
😢
blazing condor
strong forum
I swear it was EU that had higher votes on S1 tier
if not for a certain community
we'd be stuck with a tierset that would render us BY FAR the worst tank of the game
strong forum
jagged pier
hardy snow
if not for a certain community
blazing condor
i voted with 20 characters for s1 to keep it suspenseful
lusty grotto
lol
white umbra
Is there any resources for BIS lists coming into S4? want to know what priority for spending my gold cubes.
lusty grotto
nome is working on it, it'll be up next week on wowhead
im sure mwahi is doing the same with icyveins
white umbra
im sure mwahi is doing the same with icyveins
Awesome! I'll keep an eye out for it.
strong forum
Ya
pallid quiver
Don't believe his half-lies, he's not working on it until last minute before his deadline
urban bane
shut summit
lusty grotto
dark lark
warm plinth
Yeah, Nome just got it like...2 months ago or something?
Actually it's almost exactly 2 months ago XD
sick sentinel
so can someone feed me the bis rings necks weapons and trinkets for fate
sick sentinel
got it thanks alot guys for the hardwork
bronze pasture
I hate that this talent exists, it's so good that I never wanna play anything else
jagged pier
ruby musk
I hate that this talent exists, it's so good that I never wanna play anything el...
5% size increase is the best line of any talent tree so far
trail fox
Has anyone used this? https://wowlazymacros.com/t/mythic-prot-for-mythic-v-3-6-updated-02-15-23/30166
Wow lazy macros, do they work? Lol
cerulean tusk
I read this as this macro is playing the game for you
lavish gale
just macro ignore pain into shield slam and your down to low apm chilling vibe
strong forum
If you do that you kill your dps output
lavish gale
put shield slam before ignore pain ez
cerulean tusk
Nome is shaking right now
strong forum
As your IP button sure
Wait no
Other way around
You want SS behind IP
As your IP button
warm plinth
Has anyone used this? https://wowlazymacros.com/t/mythic-prot-for-mythic-v-3-6-u...
Considering this damage breakdown is nowhere near what it should be, no. It does not work.
warm plinth
trail fox
I figured that too
cerulean tusk
I wouldnt worry about APM problems tho, as ProtWarr. Do what Nome said about IP/Slam and it should solve most things for ya.
If you want slower than normal prot, just dont build haste out of the wazoo.
strong forum
Like it won't make you play perfectly
warm plinth
Yeah, even back then it wouldn't have been accurate though
strong forum
It'll play somehow
But I can't recommend it
It's safer to just start slamming dummies
Get used to the buttons
And get a feel for the rotation
cerulean tusk
(or go the more fun tank, BDK)
strong forum
The "high apm" comes like myrtu said from off-gcd buttons
Like shield block, ignore pain, Avatar
trail fox
I wouldnt worry about APM problems tho, as ProtWarr. Do what Nome said about IP/...
How would that macro be?
trail fox
The "high apm" comes like myrtu said from off-gcd buttons
Yeah thats where the high APM mostly comes from
strong forum
Is explained it pins and on https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/warrior/protection/best-macros-addons
gray sleet
So with DOTI M0 Hard mode next season seemingly dropping meaningful loot... is all I need to do talk to Nozdormu an tell him to do HM, or do I need to do the achievement stuff?
trail fox
That's nice, thanks!