they are done
#protection
plush tendon
the reworks themselves have been a success and have made these specs/classes better
in both preformance and gameplay for the most part
but, they have also made these classes much stronger then those not reworked
its bound to happen; the same thing happens in most games; just look at league
powercreep is a real thing
lusty grotto
yeah DK
plush tendon
Brew/WW
plush tendon
Lock maybe
lusty grotto
in fact id say monk is #1 except for MW
plush tendon
hunter?
jagged gust
i dont think locks, they typically come out ahead of the playing field season to season
plush tendon
i think hunter needs love in general
lusty grotto
yeah but they havent received any reworks
youre right though locks feel like they are fine except aff
jagged gust
Yeah aff just suffers due to being a dot class
Monk has been begging for a rework since the concept was conceived
median tulip
There's always someone who doesn't just want to play the class, they want to play a specific spec
lusty grotto
so aff, WW, Brew, surv and mm? warriors in general and dks in general?
jagged gust
fistweaving is actually pretty lit but having like half of all secondaries being absolute shit for the other specs is insanity
median tulip
Try Survival Hunter if you enjoy "this secondary is utterly useless to you"
plush tendon
I think the hunter class needs a look at
jagged gust
I'm an undercover surv main 😦
median tulip
Surv is my 3rd alt, but the one I'm actively playing atm
jagged gust
You chose S3 to main surv? That's rough
plush tendon
but yea, I think those are the classes at this point
median tulip
But you know, it's 480 and:
plush tendon
oh, and shaman
jagged gust
Surv was actually looking so fucking hype before they gutted the tier set
median tulip
Yeah, Blizz forgot Shaman for the whole of DF
jagged gust
Shaman is in a decent place aside from the typical squishy factor, but I think they deserve more DPS for how hectic the priority rotation is
median tulip
and entire expansion of stuff about the elements, and Shaman got jack shit, bad tier and were B tier at best in every season
jagged gust
It's sad how with a DH+mage ele still doesn't pull hard enough to be meta
median tulip
it should have lust baseline, and not tied to a pet
I wouldn't mind it being tied to a pet if it were possible to dynamically change pets in combat
jagged gust
my dream is to say Fuck You to pvpers and bring back pet talents
median tulip
One of the things with Shaman is that they were the OG "Support" spec
pallid quiver
Enha Shaman has a good design flow and actual builds
It's just kinda squishy and its stop suite is unevessary when DH solo carries pulls
Design for Resto and Ele were uh, very scuffed in comparison this xpac
median tulip
Enhance is ok (bearing in mind my Shammie is only 475), but Ele feels bad currently, and Resto hasn't been fun since Chain Harvest went away
jagged gust
long dead are the days resto was the gods of aoe healing
plush tendon
Enhace is very good, but its also the only shaman spec to have a party buff XD
median tulip
Chain Harvest was just so fun
"Should I cast Chain Heal, or Chain Lightning? WHY NOT BOTH!"
Frankly they left in the least fun of the 4 shadowlands shaman abilities
lusty grotto
my rsham friend loved harvest
median tulip
It was glorious
as Resto and Enhance
it was even decent as Ele, because it set everything on fire
hardy snow
I know being eco is cool now, but why Blizz is so hard into recycling now?
jagged pier
because as FF has shown evergreen content is good
winged slate
Low dev cost filler > no content
urban portal
^
and this isnt even recycling for a lot of people
mop came out in 2011
its been 13 years
pallid quiver
Give me the ability to not magically absolutely ward off all forms of damage
lusty grotto
is this 2.7 thing s4 or after?
lusty grotto
i cant remember the roadmap let me look it up
oh
so after
ohhh right
i remember now
they said 2.6 already had all the s4 stuff in it
pallid quiver
The thing for me is that I'm just gonna rock another Warrior smh
I know it won't have actual MoP abilities, but
I'm still gonna do it
there's just gonna be two of my main now, duplicated ass
hardy snow
The thing for me is that I'm just gonna rock another Warrior smh
same, and only for tmog
pallid quiver
wtb guild to warrior tank for in mop, no interest in continuing on into retail, thanks
blazing condor
but do we get vengeance tho
jagged pier
as its built on the df engine i doubt
urban portal
Prob not
blazing condor
as its built on the df engine i doubt
then 
jagged pier
i just started playing like an hour ago lmao
theres an mmr as u havent played its probably low
urban portal
cant be talking shit
lusty grotto
why not
talking shit is love
talking shit is life
either way it IS fun
i just had some time today cause i had to get my work shit caught up since ive been on vacation so i said fuck ill try it
pallid quiver
its DF design with mop content
Yeah, but those gem things
pastel gale
how do u deal with oakheart as prot
pallid quiver
There's a vengeance one for sure
pallid quiver
how do u deal with oakheart as prot
Press your buttons and rotate defensives. You should also be leaping the breath to save proper defensives for grip
blazing condor
how do u deal with oakheart as prot
theres a section in the pins that covers it
with video example
blazing condor
Deios (last boss murozonds rise) can be tough for some
but its the same principle
and its been nerfed now so its easier
just gotta use your defensives and you can leap away from the breath
pastel gale
oh okay doesn't seem like really hard to do
dark barn
This post was for 15 min ago
lusty grotto
so?
trinket changes were posted 2 weeks ago
they are the same as that
i know cause i read that shit before i went off on vacation
dark barn
The reduction of 1643->864 secondaries is new
lusty grotto
oh the icon
who gives a shit
stat stick and then you say "versa"
there were always better trinkets
dark barn
Okay
blazing condor
grieftorch stonks
ionic nimbus
Moving while casting is big
lusty grotto
they have been around
blazing condor
well i haven't
blazing condor
ehhh
ionic nimbus
We r legion
vale bolt
I'm practicing my Prot and I just did an EB that we depleted on the last boss. I got told it was a tank problem for the reason we didn't time. Basically got abused the whole key
Can someone have a look at the log and just tell me what I can do to improve? Or should I just quit even trying to learn prot?
vale bolt
Yea but maybe they're right and I just need to cut my losses
grim pilot
u can send the log here and I can try to take a look but maybe someone more skilled in reviewing logs can check it out anyway
vale bolt
We had a few deaths and then dps started saying it's a tank issue
Then the healer was saying at the end tanking wasn't great
I made a mistake of pulling the 3 caster mobs before the 3rd boss together with one other caster that was at 30% hp because we had meta up and other dps cds
But people just died to that and then blamed me for "why would you pull that" when it was only one extra caster that was almost dead anyway
lusty grotto
uhh
grim pilot
healer didnt really have to pump hps into you
lusty grotto
thats not really a mistake? its tyrannical week right?
grim pilot
you didnt go down like bdk looking at the log
nah it's a mistake to pull that
it's too big of a pull
vale bolt
thats not really a mistake? its tyrannical week right?
That's what I thought. I was trying to save time because of the few deaths we had before
lusty grotto
why are there 4 dps
vale bolt
I mean I almost was able to finish them solo
grim pilot
there's 3 dps idk why extra war was caught there
lusty grotto
hmm
grim pilot
but he did 0 dps so its irrelevant anyway
lusty grotto
log probably got merged somehow
grim pilot
looking over the deaths
vale bolt
It might be because the log was uploaded as a deplete
grim pilot
its mostly bursting
and then people dying to orb bait
which let me see if it's on you partially (you shouldn't move towards ranged with the arcane caster because then it's ass to bait but still doable)
vale bolt
I was finding tanking the flowers really rough because of the debuff. No freedom to remove the stacks
lusty grotto
you have TL
median tulip
You aren't wasting much Rage (good), but your generation could be better
vale bolt
You aren't wasting much Rage (good), but your generation could be better
Noted thanks
lusty grotto
if the monk isnt TLing you
grim pilot
nah those people are bots
they literally didnt bait
the orb
and died from orb
you didnt move towards them
they just came close
vale bolt
Yea I just tanked them at the front where the pyro guy was
lusty grotto
you just gotta gently remind paladins and monks to freedom and TL you, and by that i mean yell at them really hard
vale bolt
I suppose healer was in cat form and mage was arcane blast spamming in melee?
Wait so monks can TL and remove it?
lusty grotto
yes
grim pilot
just remove
cinder marsh
Do yall mind helping me decide on what to pick?
grim pilot
like avatar
vale bolt
That mfer was mouthing off at me the most all key
grim pilot
not like freedom
median tulip
You could probably use Shield Wall more than you do
lusty grotto
yeah idk
i dont feel like this key was a tank issue
maybe routing at best, but that's still not specifically because youre the tank
median tulip
Other than the wipe you never dropped below about 30%, and even that was rare...
lusty grotto
Do yall mind helping me decide on what to pick?
depends on what you have, but sim
vale bolt
I'll show you what we did gimme a sec
cinder marsh
top gear?
lusty grotto
wait
grim pilot
your stop usage
lusty grotto
you have a 444 weapon?
cinder marsh
yea
grim pilot
only 6 shockwaves in a key
cinder marsh
yep
grim pilot
also get intimidating shout
median tulip
Ok so use wall and avatar more
You can probably get more Demo Shout and Shield Charges in... that's part of your Rage Gen
cinder marsh
wdym by what track?
lusty grotto
upgrade track
cinder marsh
vet
lusty grotto
and the vault ones?
cinder marsh
2 hero 1 champ
median tulip
Use Shockwave and Storm Bolt more proactively
vale bolt
cinder marsh
legs r hero weapon is camp
vale bolt
Idk how to share the route but this is what we did
lusty grotto
get legs
cinder marsh
k
grim pilot
ok so
lusty grotto
and make sure you convert them into tier
vale bolt
You can probably get more Demo Shout and Shield Charges in... that's part of you...
Good point, I will work on that thanks
grim pilot
your cpm is also quite low
this is the cpm I had in some random 23 eb I tanked
75 vs 64
median tulip
Ravager too, you can definitely get better Rav use
lusty grotto
thats a pretty doable route on tyrannical 24
cinder marsh
@lusty grotto ty
vale bolt
Ok that is something I can do too. I will work on pressing more slams and tcs
median tulip
@vale bolt You're not actually doing anything wrong as it were, you're just not doing enough of it
grim pilot
pull 8 wouldn't do at all
vale bolt
Pull 13 I only chained when the assistant's were dead and the caster was like 30% hp
lusty grotto
yeah there's a lot of optimizing
vale bolt
pull 8 wouldn't do at all
Go left through house instead?
lusty grotto
ideally sure
grim pilot
not even that, just generally if you can
try to get as little aboms as possible
and not 300 berserkers
lusty grotto
try not pulling berserkers with juggs and naturalists though
vale bolt
I normally jsut assume that people cannot do normal skips in pugs because most don't have a brain
lusty grotto
well
its a 24
at that point they better have a single cell
and if they dont
youre not gonna time regardless
grim pilot
in a 24
lusty grotto
so dont assume that
grim pilot
you can start doing skips
vale bolt
I guess I just have ptxd from these pugs lol
grim pilot
just try to get like a priest or a rogue in group if you can
lusty grotto
heres what you do
grim pilot
or a warlock
vale bolt
I joined the group and they had 4 already
lusty grotto
dont assume, you just pull the route with skips, if they cant do it, it wasn't your fault, they just suck, go agane next key
lusty grotto
^
lusty grotto
YUP
vale bolt
Gonna be honest they didn't say a word when I was talking before the key. Assumed they were just mexican or something and couldn't understand english
lusty grotto
stop assuming
vale bolt
But then they were cussing me out in english later when things went wrong
median tulip
I usually say before the key goes in any big route choices
vale bolt
is it a stereotype or something in NA
I'm in OCE. Not sure what the sterotype is
lusty grotto
if they dont say a word, link the route
vale bolt
I just saw that someone was from zuljin which I think is a mexican server? So maybe they don't speak english
median tulip
Just saying somethingsimple like "I'm not pulling the bear with the first pull" on Bolstering week (for DHT) helps keep the DPS focused
lusty grotto
LATAM people understand routing
grim pilot
if they have an issue they can just translate simple words like
"bad route"
or something
vale bolt
Yea fair enough
grim pilot
if you care to time the key
vale bolt
So I can take away from this
grim pilot
if not then just pull whatever in general xd
whenever I wanted to time a key I linked a route
and preassigned everything
worth assigning
and pointed out mistakes people make usually
in that key
vale bolt
I shouldn't quit I should just get better 4Head
Talk about routes before key
Use my mitigation more
Press generators far more
median tulip
NGL, it's kinda funny how you USians have language barrier problems with like... 2 languages. We've got over 30 over here in europe and we manage fine
lusty grotto
🙀
vale bolt
Lol!
Nah I appreciate the time fellas
Lots of good tips
And made me feel like not too much of a failure lol
grim pilot
I can make a route for you for a 24 if you want
median tulip
You can definitely make improvements to your play, but you are starting from a good place. Just push all the buttons more.
lusty grotto
also i commend you cause holy fuck OCE pings are rough for us and i know its the same on the opposite end
vale bolt
I think I had 180 ping or something. Not too bad
vale bolt
I mean 180 is basically 0.18s delay. That's not that bad
lusty grotto
its very noticeable
vale bolt
Beats the 450-700 ping I used to get in ESO lmao
lusty grotto
trust
vale bolt
Normally I try to find OCE groups but it's the middle of the day and it's peak timeI think for US/LATAM times
lusty grotto
yeah im not scolding you or anything
i get it
i join OCE groups for vault keys sometimes
vale bolt
And as a warrior, if I get invited to ANY key I am happy. I am normally an arms player but there is NO SHOT I am getting invites as a warrior dps lol
median tulip
lusty grotto
vale bolt
That's my normal ping
lusty grotto
vale bolt
But beggars can't be choosers when it comes to warriors getting invites lol
vale bolt
The sad thing is my VDH who is 479 has tanked a 23 EB and timed it lol
That spec is just so cooked
median tulip
VDH is just broken OP
median tulip
it has way too much control, and its control doesn't run into DR issues
vale bolt
That and I literally don't need a healer
Like one thing I have noticed that healers are so spoiled when it comes to tanks because they are always crying when they have to actually heal a prot warrior from time to time
median tulip
At least half the times that I need healing it's because someone didn't interrupt or dispel something
median tulip
The thing is, as Protection Warrior even when you do take damage, you don't generally take very much
vale bolt
I definitely do feel much less tanky on prot than I do on VDH that's for sure
lusty grotto
if i need heals, im doing something wrong
median tulip
We die slow
vale bolt
But at least prot you don't get one shot like you can if you get unlucky with parries on VDH
median tulip
There are some bosses with unavoidable rot damage (WCM 2nd Witch, for example)
lusty grotto
yeahhh but 2nd witch is where group cds come into play anyway
grim pilot
mostly if pwar takes big dam
vale bolt
Yea what is up with that damage! Jesus I tanked that yesterday on a 22 and it hurt
lusty grotto
well
vale bolt
I refuse to make a dwarf for the bleeds
grim pilot
I dont feel any difference in damage intake
median tulip
But then you get the bosses where you can just blatantly ignore their entire thing. Like the wickerman in WCM xD
lusty grotto
were you jumping?
vale bolt
I like my mogs too much
lusty grotto
witches are spell reflect land
vale bolt
Yep same with 3rd boss
vale bolt
Can reflect every tank buster
median tulip
Yea what is up with that damage! Jesus I tanked that yesterday on a 22 and it hu...
Jump jump. It stacks up if you stand still. Move and drop stacks; jumping counts.
lusty grotto
yeah just jump
lusty grotto
2nd witch doesnt become an issue until high tyr and like i said at that point group cds are used
so
vale bolt
Yea I guess I must not have jumped enough. I was trying to control a pack that a dps had butt pulled too at that time
median tulip
On really high Tyr keys some groups hold lust for the second witch instead of on pull
vale bolt
That's one thing I find hard on prot. If a dps butt pulls something I have to basically charge out to the pack to TC it to get threat and then risk dying to hits from the back
lusty grotto
make sure you yell at your group if they are kicking the active witch, cause they idiots if they are
graceful cobalt
hi guys should i play scale+Hearth of fyrak or hearth of fyrak+the other fyrak triket
median tulip
That's one thing I find hard on prot. If a dps butt pulls something I have to ba...
Heroic Leap instead
lusty grotto
hi guys should i play scale+Hearth of fyrak or hearth of fyrak+the other fyrak t...
what content
vale bolt
Heroic Leap instead
Does that not incur back hits?
I suppose you're too far in the air
lusty grotto
it does with high ping 
vale bolt
lmao
median tulip
Does that not incur back hits?
OK so there's an art to this; Heroic Leap retains your facing until you land. So optimally you want to H.Leap sideways
graceful cobalt
i run M+ moste time 25+
lusty grotto
have you been dying?
graceful cobalt
yes if i charge and jump and too fast for the healer i die
median tulip
and yes the taunt reset is a nice feature too
vale bolt
I know a few people run titanic throw but I don't know if I can sacrifice points to grab it
lusty grotto
in those levels?
graceful cobalt
yes i said if i charge on mobs and jump to next pack sometimes i die
median tulip
I know a few people run titanic throw but I don't know if I can sacrifice points...
I don't rate it
lusty grotto
huh
this is concerning your trinket question
if you are dying that way though
thats because youre not playing correctly
vale bolt
I often save my ravager for moments like that tbh but that's probably a problem with my rage gen
graceful cobalt
yes i am sure
lusty grotto
cause thats a really weird way to die at that point
ok the leap thing isnt a discussion we were having with you, for context
we were just talking to deadslugg
can you link logs here?
grim pilot
are you sure youre doing 25+?
do you not remember
the guy that was a coach in boosting discord
and barely grey/green parses on heroic
lmao
doing season 1/2 dps
lusty grotto
vale bolt
Oh yea I remember him! I reported his dms that was a few weeks ago
grim pilot
dude
holy fuck
I played some random +20 boost run
with 3,7k vdh
the guy did literally 50k on st
strong forum
strong forum
yeah checks out
grim pilot
like legit idk how
also
playing last resort in 20's
lmao
esp since lowest person in that boost group was 3,7k
vale bolt
Ok that's why he was doing low damage tbh
strong forum
cuz you dont need to, tanks are the ones who are allowed to play the worst in high keys
strong forum
as long as they kinda keep aggro
strong forum
and dont flop 24/7
strong forum
well yeh
but they also just straight up dont have anything to do often times
so they should naturally notice that they can start pressing dmg buttons
lusty grotto
at that point though
those people just have a tight circle of friends that carry them
median tulip
Most healers get something from using their DPS spells
lusty grotto
there's no way a warrior that dies to simple shit gets as high as that by just pugging, or doing s1/s2 dps
grim pilot
pepega
median tulip
Shaman gets mana back from Lava Burst
Priest can fish for free Flash Heals my casting Smite IIRC
lusty grotto
thats a rat by definition
grim pilot
those people just have a tight circle of friends that carry them
like legit
I checked
and his keys are pugged with his magus friend
kekw
lusty grotto
how
strong forum
there's no way a warrior that dies to simple shit gets as high as that by just p...
most (when offmeta) high-ranked pwars are full puggers
grim pilot
I thought the same
lusty grotto
the fuck is he doing lmao
grim pilot
most (when offmeta) high-ranked pwars are full puggers
goatface has a team iirc
lusty grotto
i mean hes doing something right if he gets invited
lusty grotto
start of the season climb, and then gets in by having high io by week 2/3
median tulip
Statics are so much easier
median tulip
Just being on Discord voice is a force multiplier
strong forum
doing fuckall dmg
lusty grotto
oh i dont doubt it
median tulip
When I'm on my alts I often see PWar tanks doing the whole dungeon in D Stance
grim pilot
tbf I'm pretty incosistent with my pwar dps
lusty grotto
sometimes when im pushing my dmg is just not up to par, i gotta admit
lusty grotto
cause im more worried about timing
grim pilot
unless it's some weird cursed run
lusty grotto
so i figure that's the case with a lot of tanks
grim pilot
but my damage is fairly incosistent when doing same keys
lusty grotto
now repeatedly doing it, uhhhh thats another thing
median tulip
Hell, I've had a healer try to tell me that I was in Battle Stance like I was making a mistake in a WCM+20, and I was just... "I know bro"
lusty grotto
lol
strong forum
ngl
median tulip
I actually D Stanced on the wickerman today
vale bolt
When I'm on my alts I often see PWar tanks doing the whole dungeon in D Stance
That's me. I'm often too scared to not be in dstance on high keys
strong forum
actually nah
grim pilot
That's me. I'm often too scared to not be in dstance on high keys
na
24 is not high enough
trust
strong forum
That's me. I'm often too scared to not be in dstance on high keys
i often forget d-stance is a thing on pwar
xd
median tulip
it was a +22 and the DPS were shit
grim pilot
try battle stance
lusty grotto
i often forget im in any stance, but im old
grim pilot
you have cheat death trinket for a reason
lusty grotto
(:
grim pilot
if you proc that
you can try thinking defensively
otherwise you should be fine most of the time in battle stance
btw i'm not encouraging not to use d stance or anything
it's a very good button
vale bolt
Hmm 5% more leech in bstance
jagged gust
The only time I'm in d stance is when I'm fury
vale bolt
This is true
median tulip
i often forget im in any stance, but im old
I have two very important weakauras; one puts up a big "NO STANCE" warning, and the other tells me if I forgot Battle Shout
strong forum
Hmm 5% more leech in bstance
?
grim pilot
not leech
strong forum
that is always active
vale bolt
Yea but bstand is more damage than if in dstance right?
lusty grotto
I have two very important weakauras; one puts up a big "NO STANCE" warning, and ...
i have that one as dps specs, i keep forgetting to toggle it on for prot
grim pilot
yes but it's not 5% leech more
vale bolt
So more damage means technically more leech right?
jagged gust
I have two very important weakauras; one puts up a big "NO STANCE" warning, and ...
oh I have that too! It also shouts at me that I'm in D stance because I have the attention span of a gnat when tanking
jagged gust
You can solo Eonar?
jagged gust
I usually manage to get to the spaceship once then die sometime shortly after
vale bolt
I've done it before on my DH I think. Normally my wife and I do it together
jagged gust
ah yeah a duo partner makes it a cakewalk, DH definitely also has an advantage
polar nexus
hey guys am I pressing ignore pain constantly to maintain the max prevention dmg when it dips?
prob an obvious one but, but all about minmax if i can if there is some skills there
blazing condor
primary purpose of IP is to dump rage to funnel the rest of your kit
cus both your tier set as well as anger management (talent) works by spending rage
and you generate a lot of rage when playing properly, so you spam IP to dump rage, and as a result you will have a lot of IP uptime
IP makes a good spender because its off the GCD
polar nexus
great, thanks dog
warm plinth
Read the guide though, please. IP is not something you need to pay attention to. We don't care if it's capped, we don't care if it drops (it'll be back anyway due to our rotation).
dark barn
I avoid spend more IP in a full IP and let drop a high amount of IP.
median tulip
I'm not sure it's actually possible to drop IP due to duration limit in combat if you're even pressing buttons
dark barn
Asking a opinion: Do you guys think protection will be better, worse or equal to brewmaster in mythic+?
In season 4
warm plinth
I avoid spend more IP in a full IP and let drop a high amount of IP.
Idk what this means
warm plinth
Asking a opinion: Do you guys think protection will be better, worse or equal to...
Better. Brew still struggles with magic hits more than any other tank. And between fiery focus in Neltharus and the unavoidable frontal in AV first boss, they've added some nasty magic damage in s4
dark barn
I avoid adding ignore pain beyond the limit and also letting a high amount of ignore pain drop because of time.
dark barn
Better. Brew still struggles with magic hits more than any other tank. And bet...
I understand
warm plinth
You should not be even caring enough to track IP, and you certainly shouldn't be avoiding pressing it ever. And IP dropping due to time should basically never happen anyway.
torn gulch
every tank in the game is viable for 99% of the content
primal crypt
no no, specifically prot warrior, need to know if viable
torn gulch
yes it is
strong forum
Many time
violet ginkgo
Hmmm what about the comfortable level then for s4?
dusk sphinx
i wonder, is Writhing Heart of Darkness trinket anything to write home about? i mean it's a damage reduction trinket and decent crit
dusk sphinx
oh, yikes
weary saddle
I don't think I would say Pwar is better or worse than Brew. I think Brew has more buttons to press and needs higher APM than Pwar. I have been playing both. Pwar feels so easy to play relative to Brew and I find I have more capacity for spatial awareness. Whereas in the case of Brew the stagger minigame consumes a portion of my attention which I otherwise can spare on other things. But Brew is not only faster but also less punishing if your back is exposed. Pwar has some very inherent limitations in positioning especially angular tilt because you die if your back is exposed.
urban portal
brew def does not have a high apm than prot war
its not even close
optimal prot warrior is about 85 apm while optimal brew is about 70
#1 smolderon log on prot has 82 and 64 for brew
strong forum
Brew has a fast gcd baseline, but prot has alot of off-gcd buttons + high haste stacker
urban portal
you only need 50% haste to reach brew gcd
strong forum
Ye which we roughly have
urban portal
thats barely anything these days
limpid ruin
Also brew explodes if you let stuff hit you in the back. It’s a dodge tank
limpid ruin
Oh ya for sure, I was just responding to “brew being less punishing to having your back exposed”.
I think the damage taken increase is pretty similar actually
urban portal
most tanks are pretty similar at the end of the day in terms of melee damage, they just have vastly different forms of mitigating it
i like how we just disagreed with every single point he made
pallid quiver
so does prot but prot has more base armor
Listen, I got poked in the back once on tree in wcm
It did teach my friend to never let an enemy touch your back as a tank, tho
dusky canopy
We keep saying any pull
For the last 3 raid nights now lol
We make it there all alive
Seed carriers not doing the seed carrying well
dusky canopy
For real…
dusky canopy
Next week going to be a shit ton of OT if we don’t kill it tonight I bet
plush tendon
race to world last is the closest feeling you can get to race to world first
and thats church yo
plush tendon
This is like major anxiety lmao
you got it!
in p3
any pull now
just gotta keep it together
blazing condor
its always sad to be in guilds that spend 12-15 hours of raiding a week and then cant get last boss down before next tier
lusty grotto
lets gooo brew
dusky canopy
6 hours a week here
Two nights
They’ll probably add at least Sunday/Monday if we don’t get it tonight
Hard to say
dusky canopy
I definitely don’t use ER to get more globals on Fyrakk inside my 2nd avatar window
jagged pier
its always sad to be in guilds that spend 12-15 hours of raiding a week and then...
well they bought the patch forward i feel like tbh
or nerfed boss too late
we probably wont get it ither
🤷
but i mainly blame the dps for that
ember tangle
We keep saying any pull
we went from 22% to kill, so it could be any pull
plush tendon
i dont know, I feel like the first round of nerfs they did like 10-12 weeks ago was plenty for TSwift and Fyrak
everything else feels like extra to push some guilds over the edge, but the bosses have felt pretty reasonable
jagged pier
i mean the number show otherwise
because its usually 1500 guilds get CE
not even 1000 have it atm
which means they ither shortened the patch
blazing condor
idk i havent been in a cutting edge guild so i wouldnt know but it feels like if it takes 6 months to clear u kinda need a better guild
hardy snow
well, this tier we had two harder bosses (Tindral and Fyrakk), and they nerfed it just 3 weeks before season ending
plush tendon
or there are less guilds that are doing CE content now
cant just chalk it up to boss too hard
jagged pier
i mean u can this is one of the hardest tiers its been
hardy snow
my guild got ce last tier, this tier we will have probably last raid tonight and we will pass, as there is not enough time, still didnt pass P1 properly 
jagged pier
after saying they didnt want to make raids too hard
like im not even saying its hard its more a time thing
like we had the discussion about patch length a while ago
and if u followed the cadence it was may
but they pushed patch forward cause thats when cata is out
hardy snow
We got harder raid then aberrus and shorter season (so recycled season can be longer), thats obviously have impact on how many guilds got CE
plush tendon
Im all for them nerfing bosses sooner; makes reclear easier and after HoF closes theres no reason not to IMO
hardy snow
and if u followed the cadence it was may
At begining of DF Blizz was saying they want to make stable cadence of patches and seasons. It was going really great through S1 and S2. I was quite impressed as I didnt expect Blizz to be such reliable... and then they ignored players on S3 after .3.5 patch 🤷♂️
plush tendon
but I also feel like the bosses were fair with the nerfs they did 12 weeks ago
and this most recent round was more or less just to help guilds closing in the kill cross the finish line
jagged pier
sure and they always do that but with more time before the end of the patch
felt like sark got fine nerfs like 2 months before end of the patch
something like that
hardy snow
yeah timing was bad, especially thats 2 bosses
people progging tindral could finish it, but they dont have time for fyrakk anyway
plush tendon
my first Heroic Sark and Gnarlroot kill was Nov 20
so patch is about 4 months long; do you feel like thats too short?
or that the recent nerfs shouldve come in a couple of weeks earlier
grim pilot
this tier is 22 weeks so far
hardy snow
so patch is about 4 months long; do you feel like thats too short?
S1 and S2 was 6 months, each patch had 2 months cadence as Blizzard was telling at begining of expansion
grim pilot
this patch is like 12 weeks ish I believe or less
plush tendon
I personally felt like S1 and S2 were too long
was basically afk for a couple of months waiting for content
hardy snow
Its obvious they ignored players after .2.5. patch. Almost no class tuning, cadence of patches with content lost.
jagged pier
exactly my point, i dont really care if the boss was nerfed or not i just wanted my usual time for the patch is all or at least communication, and not blizz to just drop oh u have 1 month left cool
have fun
hardy snow
I hope that if they shorten future expansions, it wont be like this, that they ignore "old" expansion 7-8 months before release of new one.
jagged pier
here are some nerfs we should have done a while ago because we cut the season short
hardy snow
exactly my point, i dont really care if the boss was nerfed or not i just wanted...
3 weeks, not 1 month even*
plush tendon
the roadmap they gave was garbage
jagged pier
yer so they cant be accountable for dates
plush tendon
and I agree; the most recent nerfs couldlve come much sooner
but I'm excited for this season to be over
jagged pier
same i can quit
jagged pier
plush tendon
hardy snow
raiding is my side quest
and I have it exactly opposite 😄
ionic fern
I had the fortunate experience of doing a double tank m+ run with a lowly geared VDH.
ANd i have to say, if they gave us AoE silences , we would be a wild tank.
plush tendon
Im playing VDH right now; its fun, but they need to remove the double sigil
its toxic for the game
I think most VDH would agree
still doesnt solve the fact that it exists though : ^)
jagged pier
I think most VDH would agree
no they dont
lusty grotto
of course they dont lol
well
like i said yesterday double sigil of flame is fine
with a little dmg tuning
plush tendon
we had this convo
compact palm
Most vdh are fotm rerollers anyway
lusty grotto
ye
plush tendon
remove double util sigil, up the parry to like 20% so it competes with double fiery brand
and suddenly the tanks are a bit more balanced
plush tendon
Most vdh are fotm rerollers anyway
for good reason though
lusty grotto
as far as defensiveness, i think VDH is in a good spot and it shouldn't be touched
compact palm
Well yes
plush tendon
cant hate the player for playing the game as its laid out
lusty grotto
its just damage + utility thats the problem
compact palm
All fotm are trash
jagged pier
and just say ppl are wrong because they dont agree with streamers shit takes
plush tendon
You dont have to conform to the meta yourself; but its pretty obtuse to blame people that do
compact palm
Hate the player not the game
plush tendon
not like people didnt see this coming from a mile away when it was introduced
compact palm
Well I don't see how blizzard could've known giving 1 tank 4x the cc of the others would be meta warping
jagged pier
i dont blame ppl
i would just like them to listen to the ppl that actually know what they are talking about
instead of just arguing
like if i play a new spec i go into the discord
ask some questions
get info
99% of fotmers dont
then come in with some hot take thats garbage and defend it to the death
pallid quiver
There should be a Str lego shield that has holy healing and damge -125% attached to it
I think that'd be cool
pallid quiver
https://tenor.com/view/thor-really-it-is-what-it-is-gif-15689032644914728161
And I got a lego axe, so yeah I'm down with hitting DF dungeons again. Some other poor sod can think about how to run through, in zug zug
*im zug zug
jagged pier
i might do the odd key next season if @ionic fern carrys me 
lusty grotto
do eet
pallid quiver
I'd attempt to carry you but probably fail if I was an old worlder, Jakey
lusty grotto
i just wish EU and NA could play together if they were bnet friends
jagged pier
1 day
lusty grotto
ping would be ass maybe but still, good times
jagged pier
nah pings nothing nowadays
pallid quiver
Can't be worse than stumbling into an OCE group
It's still playable, just chuggy
Definitely better than how FF14 feels with good ping, still
pallid quiver
and there's at least no youtube poop mixups to worry about like fight games, holy hell
Yeah, I normally get like 160-200 depending when connecting to OCE, so that sounds right
Since OCE connections are usually worse than to a good bit of EU
ionic fern
i might do the odd key next season if <@238357283996696576> carrys me <:peepoBlu...
We both know that ain't going to happen.
ionic fern
You can carry me instead.
I might do a day 1 m+ gear farm
In s4.
But i'm not sure
pallid quiver
Eat the grass
Become cow
Live a calm, fulfilling life
Until you meet a wretched end at the slaughterhouse, but eh, what can you do
blazing condor
no
pallid quiver
Play fight games with me insetad, mwahi
ionic fern
I suck at those.
pallid quiver
I own a lot; I'm flexible
ionic fern
The last one i knew how to play was Tekken 2.
ionic fern
Agreed.
waxen quarry
dont put power to it
put power
prot isnt a pussy
1h+shiled
smh
prot pala weak ass looking ass
prot warr is big and strong
if fury can 2h+2h
prot can 2h+shield
but blizz dont care
about fantasy :/
blazing condor
jagged pier
put power
puting SMF in the talent is one of the worst decisions blizzard have ever made all ppl wanted was to be able to tmogit
lusty grotto
100%
lusty tiger
Polearm + shield + banner when
waxen quarry
puting SMF in the talent is one of the worst decisions blizzard have ever made a...
y but prot
should be 2h+shield
1h+shield doesnt fit warriors
at all
im not talking about smf
lusty grotto
hes talking about power
we already have 2 items covering it with a shield
so additional power would be stupid
strong forum
pallid quiver
I suck at those.
It's also funny, since my favorite thing to do with fight games is to teach people to play
I get more enjoyment out if that than playing myself
hardy snow
puting SMF in the talent is one of the worst decisions blizzard have ever made a...
whats SMF?
lusty grotto
single minded
compact palm
Single minded fury
lusty grotto
fury
dusky canopy
See My Feet
lusty grotto
suck*
lusty grotto
truee
waxen frigate
puting SMF in the talent is one of the worst decisions blizzard have ever made a...
Careful, talk like that in fury and you’ll catch a ban
chilly brook
Careful, talk like that in fury and you’ll catch a ban
nah man that's a normal fury take
waxen frigate
nah man that's a normal fury take
It’s literally why I got banned
chilly brook
who tf banned you lmao
waxen frigate
who tf banned you lmao
lusty grotto
huh
jagged pier
poor valk catching a ping
waxen frigate
@yogi
lusty grotto
why we banning nish
lusty grotto
well
is the combat botter banned?
thats the only one i would be happy with
getting sacked
waxen frigate
LMAO I WAS SO CONFUSDD
DID UOU MANUALLY DO THAT
OR IS IT A THING WHEN YOU @ EVERYONE
blazing dune
No it automutes for @ everyone lol
waxen frigate
Lmfao
blazing dune
Catches 99% of the bots
lusty grotto
works 50% of the time, every time
waxen frigate
They do like to do that
dusky canopy
Works every time as long as it doesn’t doesn’t
strange lintel
is this still bugged?
warm plinth
Yes
strong forum
At this point it can be considered a feature that it procs like whatever the fuck it wants
arctic finch
works 50% of the time, every time
50% of the time it works everytime *
cerulean tusk
Just give it a 30 sec CD, and it still won't matter for us at all.
dark barn
A pseudo cheat death that do nothing if you are at 30.1% life and suffer damage equal to 30.2% life is just bad design.
warm plinth
I mean the talent is fine. If it worked properly.
grizzled nova
it's a capstone and is less practically useful than a single point in the paladin two point cheat
lusty grotto
<@131897531251556352> FUCK YES
fuck yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
urban bane
Huge grats ♥️
dusky canopy
Thanks gamers! Hell yeah stoked!
hardy snow
gz 
vale bolt
I've been workign on some things a little with my prot play from tips I got here
Would appreciate if someone could give it a look and let me know where I can improve more
blazing condor
generally looks pretty okay besides a few things that i can see from a quick glanse
your top casted ability is TC when you should be having more SS casts (and you can probably get more CPM in general)
you had 80% blocked hits which is low - should try and get better shield block management
strong forum
He's my breakdown from my 29 if you want a direct comparison
Your general cpm is low, which leads to underusing of ignore pain
You're generally just sitting a bit too much on your CDs
Try to aim to use them more frequently
It will automatically speed up everything else you do
Since this class is a big feedback loop
"the more you send stuff, the more it'll allow you to send even more stuff"
strong forum
You're generally just sitting a bit too much on your CDs
By that I mean:
Avatar and Demoshout specifically
They both have cooldown reduction by playing your rotation better
vale bolt
Ok so still need to use more generators and not hold as many cds
What's your haste @strong forum ? I think I have 44% buffed haste, is that too low? Should I be aiming for more?
little ermine
it's most important to use your max ilvl item, if you can have a bit more haste without sacrificing ilvl it's nice; but not make or break
strong forum
you have 500 haste more than me
vale bolt
Is that a bad thing? I was gearing for Arms and only recently switched to dabble in Prot
I've got rings and trinkets coming out my ears that I can switch stats around. I just find it had to find what stats I should be aiming for because sims just sim damage which is not everything on tanks
strong forum
its slightly too much haste
but nothing you should worry about for now
gameplay is way more important than stats
vale bolt
its slightly too much haste
Let me know what to switch around. I have so many rings that I can switch around all same ilvl
hardy snow
Let me know what to switch around. I have so many rings that I can switch around...
You can sim rings you have
vale bolt
Actually better haste without into the fray buff active
vale bolt
You can sim rings you have
Simming doesn't tell me what I need for damage and defensiveness. Simming told me to get the haste I have now because it only sims damage
hardy snow
Simming doesn't tell me what I need for damage and defensiveness. Simming told m...
simming tells you best output from your gear, for defensiveness stats doesnt matter that much
crit is slightly better then vers in dungeons, vers can be slightly better then crit on some specific raid bosses, but difference in both cases is not significant
dark barn
Is granyth scalen now much stronger than rageheart? I was thinking scale + matrix will be a super defensive/offensive combo
hardy snow
Is granyth scalen now much stronger than rageheart? I was thinking scale + matri...
currently when scaled on 489 ilvl Rageheart gives more absorb, more damage, have shorter CD and additional passive aoe dmg
only advantage of granyth is main stat vs vers on rageheart
but scale + matrix wont be offensive combo 🙂
dark barn
Do you know rageheart loses 90k shield per second?
hardy snow
Do you know rageheart loses 90k shield per second?
not if tank buster uses it all at once 
dark barn
You have a point
hardy snow
and its not 90k/s, its decreased by your vers and other DRs you may have and it ticks every 2s
if you held it for 8+ seconds then indeed pure absorb number would be lower, but its still 30s shorter CD
strong forum
Let me know what to switch around. I have so many rings that I can switch around...
looks perfectly fine
like these are my stats
vale bolt
I switched some things around to balance out the stats a little more. Not running into too much DR this way so maybe that's a little better
But still I am gonna work on just pressing SS more
I often will not press SS in order to press TC which I think is just wrong because it's less rage
vale bolt
Oh TC does?
strong forum
revenge, tc, execute and devastator (auto attack) can reset SS
vale bolt
I was pressing Revenge to try get resets
Oh that's good to know
So basically SS above all but when I can't SS I fish for resets with the others
vale bolt
Yea honestly I think I got in the habbit of pressing TC too much in the beginning because I was struggling for aggro a lot of the time in lower keys
But now it seems that I have either ravager or roar up for each pull and I still have challenging
earnest tapir
Can somebody tell me why i have a DPS loss when i pick "Tough as Nails" instead of "Spell Block" - i mean tough as nails is suppose to do some dmg. Spell Block is just defensive. So why i lose like 100 dps? :d
lusty grotto
just a 100dps?
thats within margin of error
iirc
also depends on how youre simming
aoe sims vs st sims etc
earnest tapir
Its singletarget sim - okay, was wondering 😄
lusty grotto
yeah...
would make sense, thats margin of error
our 5t sims woudn't yield that at all
earnest tapir
Do you delay thunderclap to use Shieldslam with Violent Outburst? Or is it not worthy to track it, maybe delay the next TC so i can do a Violent Outburst Shieldslam?
plush tendon
you want to use Violent Outburst on SS as much as possible (except in like 8+ targets or something, then thunderclap)
and its worth tracking
so yea, youll delay TClap
vale bolt
Why do we not run Barbaric Training and Show of Force? Surely making Revenge hit harder and also spend more rage per global would be a good thing right?
earnest tapir
you want to use Violent Outburst on SS as much as possible (except in like 8+ ta...
okay, thank you.
lusty grotto
Why do we not run Barbaric Training and Show of Force? Surely making Revenge hit...
wasted rage on revenge since we use it dead last
on the prio
your rage spender is IP
not revenge
vale bolt
Yea but surely having the option when you want to do extra damage is good no?
lusty grotto
no
plush tendon
Why do we not run Barbaric Training and Show of Force? Surely making Revenge hit...
Barbaric training increases damage, but also increases rage cost of Revenge; the talent is less about the damage gain and more about including a more GCD effective way to dump rage
but we have IP
and show of force we dont take cause not enough talent points and thunderlord got buffed enough to be better
lusty grotto
revenge strictly falls into the "its the dead last SS reset you press" territory
strong forum
Why do we not run Barbaric Training and Show of Force? Surely making Revenge hit...
you barely use revenge, making it cost more rage will in turn mean you get less shield slam resets and use less IPs to trigger tierset
it may be a slight aoe dmg increase to run BT but ST dps loss, and surv loss, but show of force is a dmg loss
compared to what youre losing